Mini Normal 2163: MItGBSMoD [game over!]

[NDMath]

This is me claiming ascetic.


What if we wagoned someone who has actually confirmed?
VOTE: ydrasse

[NDMath]

ndmath, shall we do battle?

No. UNVOTE: ydrasse

VOTE: innocentvillager is obvscumming

Can you elaborate as to why you think this?

I too think ydrasse is very likely town.

I don't really get most of the reasonings in Plusjoyed readlist, 230.
To be specific:
'unique way of rvs', 'going against the grain and taking a risk', 'gone largely unnoticed'

Don't get what 222 is getting at since shelly had several contributing posts.
I dislike how 286 is anti-reads and the comment about votes not moving doesn't make sense.
VOTE: Tayl0r

[NDMath]

333 literally agrees with all the majority town views

many have stated that ydrasse is obvtowning
"don't really get reasoning" is fence-sitting imo
voting taylor agrees with me and plus' thoughts

This is why I don't like playing micros. All the good opinions are already taken.
What fence am I even sitting on saying "I don't really get his reasoning"?

Spoiler:

Don't get what 222 is getting at since shelly had several contributing posts.
I dislike how 286 is anti-reads and the comment about votes not moving doesn't make sense.
VOTE: Tayl0r

Spoiler:

my gut reads null of saudade

you’re posting a ton

let me tell you how much i dont have anything to say, but in a way that sounds like i have contributed

i like how everyone thinks they have super well-reasoned reads. like i guess its page 12 but the game is what? 3 hours old? has everyone even posted yet? chill out people. also a lot of people are giving reads but i havent seen a whole lot of vote-moving since initial rvs votes. interesting

I like, intensely dislike the first post here as just being like too self-aware and jokey about not doing anything, and it’s compounded by the complaining about people having reads? Like I feel like the town response to people giving reads is “good there’s something to work with” not “slow down, chill out”. I think high energy gamestate a are overwhelmingly likely to benefit town and think being a little salty about that speaks more to approaching the game from a scum mindset

Plus they’ve like been around at different points but none of their content really engages with the gamestate at the time imo

I don't really get most of the reasonings in Plusjoyed readlist, 230.
To be specific:
'unique way of rvs', 'going against the grain and taking a risk', 'gone largely unnoticed'

which parts of my first impressions would you like me to elaborate on?

On kerset, how do you go from nai behavior to the 'unique way of rvs' comment?
On shelly, What is recentcy bias referring to?
What grain was Bob fighting against with stating "osuka and ydrasse are [probably] not both scum"?

I don't see how you see NDMath as scummy but not Kerst, they both made joke claims

My role claim was serious.

[NDMath]

@math why did you claim ascetic btw?

I'm gonna hold off on answering this until mass claim or when people try to eliminate me.


Plusjoy: What specifically do you want me to clarify in my reads?
*proceeds to not clarify said things*

{plus, ydrasse, menal}
{shelly, andres}
{Taylor}
{ndmath, bob, kerset, Saudade, osuka}
{teacher}

This readlist looks like what I expected it to, which I think is slightly town indicative.

I don't relate to your reads at all, not to this, not to the IV is scumlean, nor to the menal & teacher bussing taylor together d1
none of this makes sense to me in the slightest

Do you think that says anything alignment indicative or purely nai?

[NDMath]

In post 699, innocentvillager wrote:
{plus, ydrasse, menal}
{shelly, andres}
{Taylor}
{ndmath, bob, kerset, Saudade, osuka}
{teacher}

This readlist looks like what I expected it to, which I think is slightly town indicative.

Why did you pick this particular readlist to judge? Do you know him very well or something?

It was the readlist which made me go "I have an opinion on that."

Actually wait, another thing @andres, why do you like osuka so far?

This is like a universal question that everyone should ask themselves deeply in heart

kerset can you like provide some content though

If you want to talk about something then ask me about it directly.

kk -- why are you still on what reads as a lol-vote? What are your 4 best reads, either way, out of rand?

I prefer to use a vote as either follow up to the line of though of pressure or actually executing someone and neither of this condition was triggered recently. I don't think i could confidently pull 4 names, which i won't change mind about over 2 days. By definition of day 1 people, when people make calls, which are random and utilized to determine associations. Two green ones would be mena and osuka, two red would be andre and iv,

What changed your osuka read between these two posts?

[NDMath]

Nd math, that’s a pretty narrow post to reenter with. What would you say is your availability generally? What are your own takes? Etc.

I spent more time on that post than the others, doesn't show because I couldn't come to a conclusion on kerset and gave up.
My top townread is IV because I understand his thought process and like his interactions with others.
osuka is being over-townread if that's a term but I'm not convinced that's scum driven.
shelly's iso is much townier than I expected it to be.
Mena's 410 stands out because of its similarities with 333.

Question is the kerset wagon on town or scum. For both cases im leaning on the first 4 votes being town.

If Iv is town then i would expect more pressure on kerset if he was town with him.

Teacher asked a variation of this, but are you saying that if kerset flips town you expect the people who pushed kerset to also be town?

VOTE: NDMath
Coming in once a morning with a narrow post is not acceptable to me. I need to see you actually interact and play.

okay

[NDMath]

shelly's iso is much townier than I expected it to be.

????????????

I don't like this

NDMath being very apathetic here. 0 original content

I don't understand your push on me, "0 original content", and have been loosely scumreading you because of it.
I haven't asked any questions regarding it because I don't know what to ask to understand why you're scumreading me.

[NDMath]

you're TMI'ing since scum!you knows I am town

I'm SR'ing you for similar reasons as teacher: not giving your thoughts, taking safe stances and not putting effort into scumhunting.

"You can't have real thoughts"
"Give your thoughts"


@Andre Can you elaborate on your reasoning for you Saud townread?

[NDMath]

Do you townread Kerset nda?

Null. The extended rvs like posts are scummy, but that and the argument with andre/teacher are pretty much the only two things holding the wagon up. And I can see a town!kerset believing teacher was trying to be manipulative with his question.

@Andre Can you elaborate on your reasoning for you Saud townread?

I think the main reason I TR Saudade is gut/tone and the fact that we seem to broadly agree, if that makes sense. Saudade has yet to push someone I thought wait, this push seems bad.

Remind me who or when he's pushed outside of kerset?

[NDMath]

I have read through everything but in a very weird order.
Uhhh
UNVOTE:

I'll try to organize some thoughts.

[NDMath]

I'll reevaluate on iv tomorrow, ran out of time now.


Kerset claim looks positive, not sure why people think ascetic contradicts doctor. (or miller for that matter.)
Tayl0r looks better -- might be others looking worse.

i don’t have any names but like on principle anyone who like wasn’t like really here in this chaos just gained some scum equity, id have to reread some of the chaos

This doesn't make sense to me?

given menalque is shading the doc claim and actually followed through on pushing for the gated claim, menal is prolly scum with plus and iv. game solved. gg.

Considering this.


Mena's Osuka push is bad. I don't see what the supposed scum equity is.


Andre during that time seems obvtown from content.
Read through kerset claim and hammertesting backwards (each page forward but backward by page) so now my view of how obvious it was is distorted.

@Kerset Who is the "at least 10 people" referring to?"

I think teachers take in 1860 comes from town.

Yadrasse + Shelly still townread.

[NDMath]

NOBODY ELSE OUT OR CLAIM
PLUSJOY I THOUGHT YOU KNEW BETTER NOT TO CLAIM AHHHHHHHH

WHY DID YOU SOFTCLAIM PR
WHY DID YOU JUST OUT YOURSELF
WHY DID YOU CLAIM PR NOT AT E-1

I can't think of anyone besides shelly where I wouldn't consider this an over reaction.

Okay why is osuka not being voted anymore

There really isn't an argument for scum!osuka?


Would vote IV when there's an urgency to consolidate, but 1518 being basically the entire case is... not sure the word. Like it can't be pressured since there's no defense as either alignment after the first couple posts making it an either elim for that post alone or don't.

And teh big thing andre do you see me voting village. Still nlot sure if kerset was his counter wagon or if he was simply a run off wagon from kerset

You literally haven't moved your vote?
Based off your posts it probably would have been on iv at some point so I don't get your point.

Spoiler:

Question is the kerset wagon on town or scum. For both cases im leaning on the first 4 votes being town.

If Iv is town then i would expect more pressure on kerset if he was town with him.

it was meant to be in thread

I get like stream of consciousness to an extreme sometimes and only after I posted did I realize it kind of sounded a bit strange

if it was meant to be in the thread why 1519?


Feels self conscious.

why would I claim VT if I was scum, I’m probably getting eliminated anyway

So you could say that.

And the fact you have said makes it obvous you are very much aware.

but it still doesn’t make sense for me to claim VT When I literally get eliminated as a VT

The fact your playing on such ate. A Vt doesnt play on such stuff as it is realy bad. If your town you have messed up

Question im pondering over. Is that there was 2 other wagons tied with kerset before it got a head. Why did all of it go to IV. Where is swifts wagon.

I feel like a teacher vote

VOTE: teacher

Lets see if teh wagons stay stale

How does one go from "Wait why did the wagons shift while I was gone"
to "These wagons are stale"?

And most of the posts are just spam. You could fit all the posts into 1/10 what has been done and not lose a single word. And then so much fluff and flab

...Since he has read the thread.

(Add in andre's posts I agree with.)
VOTE: Bob


Teacher's vote made me laugh ngl.
"sToP vAnItY"

[NDMath]

@NDmath lol am I known for overreaction now?

Wouldn't say that exactly, more so you roll with what you believe at a 100%.

Teacher's vote made me laugh ngl.
"sToP vAnItY"

*starts a new vanity, but at least pushed it*

Can give you that

[NDMath]

This slot wont self resolve and will continue to do absolutely nothing, how are you going to read this slot when he gets to lylo?

By how convenient or inconvenient the gate is for scum.

[NDMath]

Ok, I will just out the crumb I left in case I was killed. I’m informed. I’m informed has scum has a rolestopper. Any further questions on why Kerset, even if doc, never self-resolves?

Rolestop blocks kills though?

[NDMath]

Genuinely confused how a scum rolestopper changes things except makes me look fake?

Like how does a rolestopper counter a doctor.

[NDMath]

If rolestopper blocks doctor it also blocks the kill.

[NDMath]

ndamath do you townread osuka

Yes. He's been pushed for townreading kerset and whatever Mena voted him for earlier.
I don't think either shows him having an increased scum equity.
Him scumreading iv who then announces he's pr hunting doesn't hurt either.

also does rolestopper existing have any impact on the earlier ascetic claim alignment wise?

It means that if I'm scum I'm not the rolestopper. (Unless you argue that it's an ascetic rolestopper.)
If the rolestopper is hung I'll still be ascetic so if proven at that point it's probably +town points for me.

[NDMath]

Why does rolestopper flip prove you as town? rolestopper doesn't mean assured ascetic claim

I said some town points if I'm proven not targetable after mafia rolestopper dies.
Threw it out there because it was asked what the implications were on my alignment.

tbh the warring / division isn't helping; we should post our lynchpools

Same as teacher:
Bob>IV>Osuka to get an elim through.
Scumteam I'm slightly leaning towards is first two with Mena. Mena + IV had the 'determine kerset's gate' idea at the same time and Mena's defense of IV seemed quite out there. Both slots specifically Mena ignored Bob but encouraged the status quo of Bob being townie / not an elim target.

I'm not cherrypicking. I'm describing how the majority of your posts look like and they are devoid of content

The post you quoted kerset was swinging their first at the air, while most of them have some intent or question.

[NDMath]

Math feels like they've just skirted on the sidelines harder than anyone else and I don't like it. The ascetic claim isn't a pass to not engage, and I think they are probably mafia ascetic

Is this a fancy way of saying I don't post as much as everyone else?

Nd math, that’s a pretty narrow post to reenter with. What would you say is your availability generally? What are your own takes? Etc.

I spent more time on that post than the others, doesn't show because I couldn't come to a conclusion on kerset and gave up.
My top townread is IV because I understand his thought process and like his interactions with others.
osuka is being over-townread if that's a term but I'm not convinced that's scum driven.
shelly's iso is much townier than I expected it to be.
Mena's 410 stands out because of its similarities with 333.

Question is the kerset wagon on town or scum. For both cases im leaning on the first 4 votes being town.

If Iv is town then i would expect more pressure on kerset if he was town with him.

Teacher asked a variation of this, but are you saying that if kerset flips town you expect the people who pushed kerset to also be town?

VOTE: NDMath
Coming in once a morning with a narrow post is not acceptable to me. I need to see you actually interact and play.

okay

Why does rolestopper flip prove you as town? rolestopper doesn't mean assured ascetic claim

I said some town points if I'm proven not targetable after mafia rolestopper dies.
Threw it out there because it was asked what the implications were on my alignment.

tbh the warring / division isn't helping; we should post our lynchpools

Same as teacher:
Bob>IV>Osuka to get an elim through.
Scumteam I'm slightly leaning towards is first two with Mena. Mena + IV had the 'determine kerset's gate' idea at the same time and Mena's defense of IV seemed quite out there. Both slots specifically Mena ignored Bob but encouraged the status quo of Bob being townie / not an elim target.

I'm not cherrypicking. I'm describing how the majority of your posts look like and they are devoid of content

The post you quoted kerset was swinging their first at the air, while most of them have some intent or question.

Math can you go over how osuka Village went from atop town read to below osuka. A player backing in the 1100 you said was being over townread

It feels dumb citing just one post but 1518 made me reevaluate my townread on IV. Recent his readlists doesn't feel as it did when I posted 1173.
Osuka in the first quoted post was null for me (that was an observation because I was struggling to see how people had stronger reads than a lean on him at the time), but since then he's been attacked several times for bad reasons which I think makes him likely to be town.

[NDMath]

I'll look at plusjoy tomorrow, I agree with plus's logic that if IV is town I want to get it done with since it's gonna be hard to change enough people's minds (mine included) to not elim him later on.

VOTE: innocent villager

L-1

[NDMath]

And they both claim to think that im scum. So a self voting IV would rule him out as being partners with me. And my read wasnt one they left.

So teh logical conclusion that town scum reading me would make. Is either im wrong on bob or IV cant be scum with bob.


As why would Iv self vote. Ensuring he is the lynch when he could so easily switch to osuka. But along with bob he is against that lynch. Why would a scum bob/Iv team fight a potential mislynch in favour of scum lynch.

If correct:

NDmath and teacher both claim to think bob is scum. So a self-voting IV would rule him out as being partners with bob. And teacher’s and ndmath’s read on bob isn’t the one they left —> what does this mean? Why does self voting IV tule him out as partners with you?

Minus the bit they wouldnt know about my meta.

Basicly at that point if there reads were both real. They would be thinking that bob is scum and Village is town.

If village was scum with me. That would mean that osuka was counter wagon. If that was the case why wouldnt atleast one of us be pushign that wagon. Why would VI push himself closer to lynch with self vote. Its basic wagonomics.

If the wagons are deadlocked but one gets a clear lead when it comes to deadline. That one will always be lynched. So scum will always either be focused on keep the scum wagon down or just hard bussing.

You weren't voting but when you did you were gonna vote osuka.
You hadn't pushed much previously so I didn't expect that to change regardless of your alignment.
IV had started ateing and I don't think his lack of stopping says much about a scum!IV partners.

3542 Explains very well.
Bob accusing me from a bunch of incorrect statements he made doesn't make sense for town.
VOTE: bob


Andre checking me is slightly humorous but after he explained his thought process I get why.


3512
This has been beaten to the ground already but
"Saud is an awful kill for scum assuming that I am town."

I'm currently scumleaning NDMath who is probable deepwolf here and also on iv wagon

what if they were a mafia gated commuter or something

tfw you're called a deep wolf after being repeatedly told how scummy you are.


My solve is the same as Tayl0r's right now.

town are: teacher, ndmath, andres, shelly?, ydrasse.

that leaves: kerset, plus, osuka, bob, menal.

i also really dont like plus' flip on the one post. i also dont like bob coming in today and pointing out with self-meta how bob must be town because scum hit VT. im kinda leaning meal town by PoE, thinking kerset plus bob or kerset bob osuka just kinda makes sense.

[NDMath]

3542 Explains very well.

Wrong post?

Oops. 3452

[NDMath]

{Vote on osuka}

I like Bob's posts this phase, counter to the previous, but I think Bob has to be the third.

I should probably have more to say than I do.

[NDMath]

also i've softed long enough, not 100% sure if admitting my role is good here but
i am vengeful townie

In an ideal world we save this for Even # of players or F3.

I have to be honest, the odds that we have a Vengeful Townie this game are like 1%. It doesn’t fit with an Informed Loyal Cop, a Scum Rolestopper, an Ascetic, and a Miller Town Checker. I think it’s way overpowered (since it’s essentially a Day Vig that negates the Scum Rolestopper, which would be insane in a game with a Cop).

Hot Take: the mafia rolestopper is disloyal.
There has to be a bit more town power, could fit with that.

Any game some makes a claim thats clearly not true, you can expect me to scum read them. If he had never made the claim informed townie full stop I doubt i would have ever tunneled him.

And if I was scum you can well bet your arse i would have kept my interactions to him to min. If i spot a town power role i near always town read them as scum and bumb them off in the night.

I feel you should be able to reason that the informed claim was a partial claim and not a full claim, considering you did during your nk spec.


VOTE: osuka

[NDMath]

math have you got any completed scumgames?

One on-site.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=83142


*My thoughts right now*
I believe both scum are in osuka Bob plus.
I don't need to convince people of that since that's what consensus already is.
I need to convince people of who it is in the event that pool is wrong (shown by claims or flips).
Finding scum in a pool of five townreads who probably don't even have scum is hard.

[NDMath]

Arguments for why it doesn't make sense for me to be scum with each of osuka and plus coming when I decide to not be lazy.

[NDMath]

Starting with plusjoyed since that's simpler.
In a plus/ND/kerset world,
We know there is a scum rolestopper and because of my claim either
A. I am ascetic
B. Plusjoy is gonna rolestop me each night.
Either way the plan would be for me to submit the kill each night. (Since I can't be track'd jailkept etc.)
Making it preferable for me to not die early.

Posts quoted are plusjoy's reads on me with a couple reads of kerset.

Spoiler: Early Day 1

Who loves readlists? I do!

kerset: Shitposter, which is NAI. My gut says they are town though but not a lot to go on; I feel like scum would be more self aware and worried about being SR'd from shitposting, and the mason thing might be a unique way of rvs 3 other players to see reactions. TR.

Ydrasse: Mild scumtell mainly from gut but it's getting weaker as time passes, would vote over other TR but mostly null at this point. Their posts seem NAI though #49 was pretty townie. Null atm.

Andres: null, only posted once

Saudade: feels kinda scummy, especially his entrance and making an excuse to lurk like IV said, but it could just be his personality. His kerset attack seems really random and feels mildly scummy overall. SR.

Shellyc: Feels like her scumgame but it could also be recentcy bias so idk. I'd like to look a townie game from here actually, since they have q knack for appearing townie as scum naturally. Leaning null for now.

bob: Town read actually. His opener is pretty wack and that logic seems strange but I think he believes it. going against the grain and taking a risk/getting discussion going is townie as heck. TR

teacher: kinda ignored their early wagon which is a lil weird. I'm glad he's calling out IV but honestly NAI at this point. The
vote at #90 seems so late and doesn't make sense. null for now

Menal: Why are they handing out TR/pockets so much? Seem self aware too. But I don't think a scum menal would throw pockets that much and be open about it, so I TR them.

IV: total scumbucket. I'll do a full casing later. I'm aware this tunnel without explanation is sus from me but idc. I want him to lower his guard first and hit him with a big list later on. SR

Taylor swift; agreeable lurker. Minor SR but need more to go off of. They've seem to have gone largely unnoticed so I'd like someone to pressure them at some point. SR overall

NDMath: null, only posted once

osuka: also going against IV without much explanation, most of his posts are about IV and I don't think he's trying to pocket me either since we expressed a SR on IV around the same time. Null for now

current SR is IV > Taylor > saudade

I don't see how you see NDMath as scummy but not Kerst, they both made joke claims

Why do you think Kersts claim was a joke and NDmath's claim was serious
I think they're both rvs joke claims

Yes those are one and the same

Well I've never played a game with an aesthic claim in it but the wiki says they like to claim off the bat like millers. I still don't take the claim seriously but I will if NDMath doubles down on said claim.

Forgot about this. Lol comparing their supposed scumbuddies claims.
Doesn't commit a read on me which doesn't mean much because of how little I posted.

Spoiler: Mid to Late Day 1

hmm... aesthic and miller in a 13 man seems really unlikely.

the miller claim and the aesthic claim change things. I think one of them is fake/evil most likely

Why would there be 2 passive town roles that impact invest results in a mini normal? I don't see why they'd do that from a meta perspective.

I agree that andre is town too

Me:
bob (townie god) > shelly > ydrasse > andres > mena > suadade > kerset > teacher > osuka > IV (leaning more townie) >  NDMath > taylor (scum extraordinaire)

bob townie god
iv town
shelly town
Ydrasse town
Andres town
pretty confident on the above TR
mena town (slightly less sure than others)
kerset null townlean
saude null scumlean
osuka null scumlean
ndmath scummy
taylor scummy
teacher scummy after seeing their iso

you've been doing this since lime the first day my guy
ndmath is also probs town
scumteam is teacher/iv/that other fuck

im thinking math actually he's my scummiest read

boom guys i got it it's iv/teacher/ndmath
ndmath is probs maf ascetic

man everything actually falls really into place with iv/teacher/math
i'll make an in depth casing later

im telling ya
the solve is iv/teacher/math
saude is next in line if one of those 3 flip town

kerset flips green

facts im disappointed in shelly

rn i think it's
scum pile: iv, ndmath, teacher
maybe scum: saudade
tr everyone else pretty solidly at this point

rn i think it's
scum pile: iv, ndmath, teacher
maybe scum: saudade
tr everyone else pretty solidly at this point

same as last time but im null on bob now given his more recent stuff.

Puts me into scumpile while townleaning the goon.
Granted I was not really ever in consideration for elim day one.
Biased opinion is that these posts indicate they would have hopped on a wagon on me if there had been support from 1-2 other people, which is counter to the pregame goal/plan that would have been set. In mini theme 2145 which I linked earlier I depended heavily on my teammate Dunn to help me survive, I think this gamestate is similar.

Spoiler: Day 2

solve is iv /shelly /ndmath atm

Vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

execution

innocentvillager [7]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, osuka, innocentvillager, teacher, NDMath, Ydrasse

[HAMMER]

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

PlusJOYED [2]:

Andresvmb, Menalque

Kerset [2]:

Saudade, shellyc

Not Voting [0]:

flip

innocentvillager

has been executed Day 1. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

The sun sets, it is now Night 1. Sunrise in

(expired on 2020-09-20 12:00:00)

.

mod notes

~ hi i just woke up

flavour

I still can't believe IV flipped town, what the hell IV?
Anyway, him being town and sau flip does impact my reads quite a bit.
Kerset claimed gated so i could see them being town still. That or mafia has a roleblocker. Still my TR on them has weakened with flips.
Mena is definitely town imo, scum wouldn't go that hard to save a townie. Super strong obvtown
If osuka is still after mena I think he's probably scumbinned at this point, town wouldn't do that
Shelly is still town
Ndmath is still super scummy
Bob scumlean I think
Teacher i needs to read iso
Andres obvtown
ydrasse seems towny overall, I think the hammer may have been exhaustion

NDMath is Town. Let’s stop wasting time.

how
they've done nothing towny this game

i never doubted ndmath was ascetic, I think they are mafia ascetic

VOTE: ndmath

But kerset isn't getting my vote today

cool saudade is dead and now i get instant L-2
You don't know how to make insightful NKA. We are talking here about saud, he is careless gamethrower. His existence was harmful to town and viging him would be worth it regardless of his alignment, so healing him was out of question. This guy misleads town to lynch his target regardless of circumstances to satisfy his ego. Hardclaimming bullshits is just one of throws typical for his behavior, he thinks that saying nonsense as town is 200IQ play, because thanks to his reputation he can get away with anything, once he rolls scum.
The most important information we got is scum lack of knowledge. Scum didn't know about his nature and took him seriously, which points at people with 2020 join date. Especially shelly, which periodically appears as more naive then she normally should be.

???
Well shit, I don't see how this post could come from anywhere but scum even with my confbias. Guess I was wrong on you kerset
UNVOTE:
VOTE: kerset

I'm actually at a loss for who the other scum could be if teacher and ndmath are town, besides kerset. I guess osuka? Maybe Ydrasse?
peddit: no but they could surely deduce that town has at least one investigative pr so they use a sketchy player to claim ascetic and waste town pr actions.

Does try to push me, immediately overshadowed by kerset's post.
Day 2 was short.

Spoiler: Day 3

im at

hard town: andres, mena

probably town:taylor, shelly, bob

scummy: ydrasse, ndmath

hard scum read: osuka

can you talk me through your scum reads here? also through your read on bob?

yeah
osuka is scum not for his iv read, but because he continued to SR mena after IV flipped. Also the vote back off of kerset was sus as well
Ydrasse I liked day 1 but the hammer was sus af and I feel like they are the deepwolf here. They claimed to be bad at mafia scum roles but i've fallen for that before. And since near end of day 1 I haven't liked their posts

ndmath was always in my scum pile. I still think he's possibly mafia ascetic and inactive. but i'd prefer osuka and ydrasse elims first

*Not quoted but I go just outside of possible scum teams for a while.*

joyed instead of seeing scum!anybody can you give me a lynch order so we have have some Fun Discussion and I can release my theory on the alignments of plus and ydrasse

here's mine: (least to most)
Shelly
Andres
Menalque
Ydrasse
Math
Bob
Joyed
Osuka

mine is probably
andres
mena
joyed
Shelly
ydrasse
osuka
math
bob

I'll elim bob, shelly, or possibly math today

This day makes it look more possible since that's probably roughly what would happen in a plus/me/kerset world.
However not in that world, I'm an achievable miselim and still will be later, whereas bob or ydrasse probably get harder as the game goes with possibly another investigative or ydrasse becoming too much consensus town.


Am now realizing it's probably more effective to point out the plus/osuka/kerset interaction rather than try to argue that I can't be scum with each of them but I already gathered quotes for this.

[NDMath]

VOTE: osuka
This is either L-2 or L-1 not sure. (Shelly just unvoted)

Strongly getting the impression my opinion does not matter this phase.

[NDMath]

To be more clear

Osuka + Plus scum who don't really care what I say.
Andre + Shelly have same solve as me; I don't need to convince them.
Mena dismisses my last post and has been scumreading at the same level most of the game.
Ydrasse ignores it, don't really think I can say anything to change that since there focus is on sorting osuka+Plus today.

[NDMath]

Awkward post hammer commuter claim because why not and I'm not dying anyway.

Someone give me an "If osuka flips mafia rolestopper {do/don't} commute."

(If he doesn't flip mafia rolestopper it doesn't matter because scum!me could have my partner either rolestop or not.)

[NDMath]

uh. well then.

don't commute...??? i was not expecting that.

If osuka flips any sort of mafia rolestopper I will not commute.
Or just mafia in general.


I am a full commuter.

[NDMath]

no offense, but i really don't think that ndmath this game is the sort of person people kill so i don't think that being a commuter says much about scum dying/not dying.

it's more a matter of why ndmath claimed ascetic, and then claimed commuter now, and the logic behind that.

Saw my role, only utility is getting nk'd, I'm not good at that so easiest way is getting mafia to think I'm a strong pr. Claiming ascetic could possibly do that, and it gets investigatives + whatever else off me which is good.

I claimed commuter there because it was the correct play if osuka flipped mafia rolestopper and I believed there was a good chance of that. (Confirming me as either not ascetic or not not ascetic, out of my choice which)
In addition, I couldn't think of anything town loses by me doing it if he flipped town.


You people need to massclaim, my choice of order would be plus, shelly, ydrasse, Mena.

[NDMath]

im VT as well, there are probably no more TPRs existing here, massclaiming isn’t helping

No more pr claims would be (very?) town indicative for me since I don't think
informed loyal cop / jailkeeper / miller checker
can be considered enough power unless the rolestopper is like 1-shot.

[NDMath]

...
"commuter" is very strong town role, why didn't you include yourself? That's sus af
also the fact that neither me nor shelly has been quickhammered to me indicates from an outside pov that 1 of us is scum for sure. shelly/ndmath might be probable but im fairy certain shelly is in the scumteam

My argument is, if no one else claims a power role I am very likely to be town because balance. To show this, I displayed what the setup is if I'm scum and no one else claims a role to illustrate it doesn't look balanced.
What did you think my argument was?

hmmmmmm

menal come back please we wanna hear you claim

I strongly TR ydrasse and if the team is ydrasse/plus well played
so its either menal and plus or math and plus, and I think if menal claims a PR the solve is simply just plus and math

so just get rid of confscum!plus today, 3p lylo is a 50/50 and should be easier than this

Scum!Mena: *claims pr*
I don't understand your logic here.


The Plus/shelly interaction this phase is screaming w/w to me right now, so I'll look at what the earlier interactions between them were this evening when I have more time.

[NDMath]

Scum!Mena: *claims pr*
I don't understand your logic here.

ugh it’s the balance thing
scum!math TPR!Menal world may exist and you just pointed that out

also why is plus/me scum/scum though? like why? in the world?? do I hard bus my partner in lylo

Doesn't make much sense from either a town plus or scum plus perspective to vote before mass claim, but could easily be something you suggested to do.
In a plus-shelly team, Bussing plus and winning 3p against me looks easier than buddying plus and trying to win 5p.

Also, math, did you crumb commuter at any point prior to like, yesterday

Barring the ascetic claim, no I did not.

i am vt btw
im actually sus of ndmath honestly.
if I was town commuter (without limitations at that, since NDMath didn't claim gated commuter, he claimed commuter) I'd want to obvtown super hard and to try and eat the mafia NK, or even fakeclaim a strong town role to bait maf. Instead NDMath was super quiet and hid most of the game and made mostly scummy filtered posts.
I could see a NDMath/shellyc team or possibly a shellyc/Ydrasse team here. I know mena is my locktown here and I am most sus of shelly being scum. Ydrasse/ndmath are a tossup for being shelly's partner.

Fakeclaiming a strong role when you can't be nk'd is asking to be elim'd.
I'm really bad at not being quiet, that is very much a play style thing.

[NDMath]

sorry for delays, I started my masters course this week and it's been busy aside from that too

so, okay. math, before we go further, I need you to go a little further into the balance argument you were making? why do you think it should be clearing for you if I claim VT?

*Context*

For the record: the balance standard in a 13-player Mini Normal is 3-4 moderately strong town PRs, against an all-goon scumteam or maybe 1 fairly weak scum PR.
The weaker the town, the weaker the scum must be to compensate for this; the stronger the town, the stronger the scum must be to compensate for this. And vice-versa, too:
The stronger the scum, the stronger the town must be to compensate for this; the weaker the scum, the weaker the town must be to compensate for this.

Reviewers keep in mind the strength of a role in their review. Cops, Watchers, and Jailkeepers tend to be some of the strongest town roles; Strongmen, Roleblockers, (situationally,) and Ninjas tend to be some of the strongest scum roles. These three roles aren't exclusively the "strongest of the strong", but are the three which immediately come to mind as topping the charts. (Town Rolestopper is probably also up there, too.)

{Trimmed}

We have a jailkeeper, an informed loyal cop, and a miller checker.
Jailkeeper is a strong role.
Loyal cop is a weaker version of a strong role, I'm assuming the informed modifier benefit can't be more than the benefit the mafia get from the rolestopper.
And miller Checker, which is a weak role.

I don't think those three roles can make up enough town power / would be too swingy if that's it. (However I am biased in that I know they don't.)

Not arguing it's fully clearing, just that it would be quite town indicative for me.

[NDMath]

I was originally backup JK and since D3 I've been promoted. I didn't crumb but I can point to a couple of points in the game where I think my role was very clearly influencing my play.

*mechanics viewpoint*
Best choice of actions from my pov:
D5 Elim Plus
N5 JK Ydrasse, I commute
D6 Elim Shelly
N6 JK Ydrasse, I commute
D7 Elim Ydrasse

It doesn't make sense to jail me because I'm decently likely to be ascetic as scum, meaning no info gained and only a small chance of an extra elim.
However, if eliming me tomorrow it does makes more sense to jail the survivor of shelly/plus than ydrasse, due to them being more likely to be scum.

i think at minimum for a mini there needs to be 6 vts

Lol. Where's this assumption come from?

ndmath please show up i would like to hear your Thoughts on plus voting you for a bit.

Objectiv-ish standpoint, Wifom on whether it makes plus/shelly more likely or plus/me more likely.
Either way it's very indicative of plus being scum.

[NDMath]

this is the problem with letting a slot that is verging into TSTBS territory into lylo, you just keep getting stuck on the back and forth

I don't see how you don't have this problem anyway. Every slot has to be in some way sorted at some point in games which go to lylo.

basicially mena I don't believe you. There has to be 4 prs this game for it to make sense and I won't be convinced otherwise
the solve is shelly/ndmath
regardless, no way me and shelly isn't TvS
lets just end this day now im getting sick of the back and forth myself and people being inactive
i also have a meta tell on shelly being scum and ydrasee town im not gonna share
but scum!shelly loves to seem friendly and appease the rest of town. Look back to doggos and hedgehog newbie, she did the same stuff there too

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29549
^Mini normal role list archives
Focusing on the recent, a plurality of 4 town pr games (among the 13 player games) but there's a decent number of 5-6.


Shelley just called a commuter stronger than a loyal cop.

[NDMath]

I'm pretty set on voting plus today. (Should've said this before ydrasse did oops.)

I'll vote once Mena announces/decides who'll he'll jailkeep tonight.
I would prefer ydrasse but I won't protest if it's not since I don't expect it to matter.

[NDMath]

Love the mod pt.
Surprised my ascetic claim was as unexpected as it was. Very curious to see if scum were close to killing me early on or not really.

I am a little annoyed I will admit at Town self-voting in ELo. I understand that you think the game is almost over there plus and I agree that was a tough situation to get out of. But next time accept the defeat instead of speeding it up.

I didn't mind it, even if we did flip to vote shelly I don't think I vote Mena over plus in mylo.

[NDMath]

Very curious to see if scum were close to killing me early on or not really.

Oh wow.