Undertale C Open Cooking Show PT

[catboi]

...hahaha WHAT? I thought for sure I was going to live after how terribly I played the end of day yesterday. I have absolutely no idea what to think, now. (ノ)ʘ﹃ʘ(ヾ)

[catboi]

(●´ω｀●)ゞ I was thinking something like Hectic town, Pooky town, Puppy obvtown, Chara town, Tweet town, and even tho I don't rly wanna, Prism town...wouldn't clear Tanner, interactions with elements not strong on a brief search. But I'm confused as to what scumteam in the lurker side of the PL kills me unless they're just really lacking in awareness and were going off me being mostly townread.

[catboi]

I guess the only viable alternative is that one of those potential townreads is the other goon and is just playing to deepwolf but that seems insanely risky. Maybe it is in fact tayl0r and, like, sujimichi or something and they just couldn't read the room...idk.

[catboi]

i feel tremendous remorse for wrongly burying catboi under a wall and would like to atone by starting an appreciation page for him.

Lol, my play was p. bad, no need for regrets. 10/10 would lose an argument to you again~

[catboi]

i wasn't really hoping for it, since i knew that such mass shift was very very unlikely. not impossible maybe. i don't actually know what i was hoping for. the townie in me is saying that i was hoping to at least get some info by people's reactions to it. the truth is probably closer to "i refused to vote for beeboy because i felt it was a silent consensus execute that 99/100 times flips town, and wanted my vote anywhere else so i could act high and mighty the next day for not being on the misfight wagon."

nvm Tanner is LOCK TOWN as that is a mind meld from beyond the grave, I felt this post in my ~soul~

[catboi]

I get people being worried about bussing but surely today with the scum in white flag mode, you look outside the voters? It makes essentially no sense to have bussed as vengeful chara and ultimately anyone attempting to deepwolf as the last is going to have to face a public double cop check and have to explain why they weren't shown as town. Put aside your fears of the deepwolf, everyone~

[catboi]

If Lavender is, in fact, mafia, I will salvage a small part of my dignity, at least. Here's hoping for that?

[catboi]

I feel really bad about how hard this setup is for scum

It's really townsided, even beyond just the EV math with regard to how restricted scum team ends up being in terms of their play and the potential to draw connections from that

but at the same time
"it makes essentially no sense to have bussed as vengeful chara"
I have to agree with that being a weak play that reduces my sympathy towards the scumteam

spicy~


puppy coming out the gate trying to argue for spares is certainly...a look.

[catboi]

Conceptually I like the idea of vanilla with some special mechanics, this just tips the needle a bit too far. Could probably make it work with some balance tweaks.

I think people

like

the spare thing (I felt bad crushing people's hearts with outing how much better the genocide route is) and it's probably worth exploring, but it needs some balancing factors to really make it work, here it's pretty much all downside

[catboi]

"Man, look at this. You're right that I'm town catboi, but it's entirely for the wrong reasons. Sad. My reasons for townreading you are spot on, though, dunno why you won't admit it."

cue Benny Hill theme as slapfight ensues

Love you too, buddy~ <3

Prism playing like he wants to EARN that N2 kill

[catboi]

I did it in this one specifically because he told me he hated it after the last one I did it in, Lmao. Idk if I'll even play 3 more games with him but he guaranteed I will do it to him every single time we do play a game together again (*•̀ᴗ•́*)و ̑̑

[catboi]

You win either way if you hit scum. I think narrowing your focus may be a mistake if you end up focusing on indicators like lurking and ruling out certain players. IDK. Game looks really tough right now so I couldn't begin to say what they should do.

[catboi]

but at the same time
"it makes essentially no sense to have bussed as vengeful chara"
I have to agree with that being a weak play that reduces my sympathy towards the scumteam

it was a bad decision. i thought it was a good play for the associations it'd produce and the fact that it was obviously a play no one would consider. i didn't expect my whole team to lurk out on me. but it's ultimately my mistake, doesn't matter how town read i am if i screw up the basic strategy like that.

Definitely threw me for a loop, I think elements might have ended up as the default vote anyway so it wasn't necessarily terrible to do it just so you didn't get voted out day 2.

At least now I know the tell I had on you day 1 is still undefeated~

[catboi]

Not killing here seems a pretty big tactical blunder - technically, the optimal move is then to no-kill

again

because it means you can have 3 uncleared on the final day, rather than 2...but I don't think the % boost of having 3 uncleared on the final day is worth the added difficulty of gifting town an extra elimination. I think it was always going to be an uphill battle, because going for the timeout victory, while gutsy, left a ton of obvtown as a result and it's going to be really hard to work around that.

[catboi]

Okay, I crunched the numbers...purely on raw math, it's a very slight +EV move for mafia...you go from 34.3% EV to 37.5% EV...HOWEVER, that's assuming random eliminations, and I think given the info available ingame, town is likely to be well above random. You can clear practically half the game and mafia only gets to kill one town instead of two. Don't love the play.

[catboi]

Night 4 gets skipped, so if everyone always killed you'd have at daystart: 12 -> 10 -> 8 -. 6 -> 5. 5 on day 4 with 2 town being cleared because how genocide plays out. With one no kill, you get 6 on day 4 with only 2 clears, which is much better than 2/5. town doesn't get an extra fight for it

game state wise, i think i would have pushed the no kill back to night 3, i think it would have been better to take a little control and not spill the no kill just yet.

i also made the decision that a shot at autowin was better than playing the game out to conclusion, which seemed an almost certain loss anyways. if isis hadn't been so quick on locking the thread there were ways i could have implicated whoever was going to hammer

You're missing that you die, though - the no-kill put them at 8 alive right now, if he'd killed it'd have gone to 7. The way things played out it would have gone 12 -> 10 -> 7 -> 5 -> 4, with 2 cleared on day 5. Takes away an extra elimination.

and yeah, I don't blame you for going for the bold play at all, respect the hell out of going all-in, tbh. Just saying that the nokill might not be advantageous regardless of the numbers behind it.

[catboi]

still think scum loses, the hole were in is too deep. but if there were a scum path to win, i think it'd look like this:

1) waste a few days on vanity fights that don't advance game state
2) after a few bad fights, town gets super paranoid and starts lynching obvtown slots
3) scum makes it to lylo and plays well

1) is looking pretty good right now. think I played poorly overall, but I feel good about the way my interactions stirred up town enough today. since ISIS hasn't spoiled I won't ekther, but I feel like most of what they're reading from my ISO is what I wanted them to read (Irving Goffman, front stage back stage)

2) is probably unlikely, but the only way past this step is if the cop-check mechanic doesn't put town on or close to autowin. that means no kills so the fight pool is bigger. town needs to go full paranoia to lose here, and the paranoia play is always to keep alive towns strongest townreads (strong town players often turn on each other, and are so used to being killed that they often make mistakes when allowed to live)

Theast scum shouldn't make it to 3) just on odds alone. but I think the last scum is playing well enough rn to at least give it a shot

this game was probably always a town win the moment scum flipped day 1, we can figure out whether because scum went inactive or because I bussed too aggressively and it's my fault. its probably my fault. but this has been a pretty fun town and a pretty fun game overall, which makes it more interesting to game out the scum path to victory even though we should lose this 9/10 times at least

Well I've kind of figured it out contextually anyway, but yeah. Things might be more iffy than I thought, eventually they have to start ruling out certain players who they've previously towncleared and that's when things have the potential to get goofy. Qith the cop check the move is to clear people who aren't ever going to get fought but aren't a threat readswise. There's a couple people that could fit that bill.

[catboi]

What just happened ._.

[catboi]

right now i think the play would be to cop clear the most suspicious players, and get town really paranoid so they have to re-evaluate some clears and would make those mistakes.. but it could change depending on who makes it that far and how. i could give more thoughts whenever isis decides to spoil the thread

My general theory as scum is you always pass the hammer to the player most likely to make the wrong decision and I think the same pretty much applies here

gotta say it's immense fun just watching people spec on my motivations for different posts, 95% wrong, the most right guess was some of the spec about why i "had" to bus beeboy day 1. almost everything else was just deliberately sliming some associations to make people paranoid. dont think it changes the game outcome, but its gratifying on a personal level

You're evil and I love it

[catboi]

wow. absolutely not the lynch i expected

Deadline scrambles make weird things happen (.﹒︣︿﹒︣.)

[catboi]

Yeah that was just..a tough rand for scum

[catboi]

Assume the play here is to confirm Lavender + one of MT/Alisae as those are the least likely to be voted but not that threatening as clears. Still a tough path to victory because I think Tanner is always going to be voting Krazy and I don't think Tanner gets voted.

[catboi]

I can see the rationale behind it - alisae had the bad hammer, tanner was unlikely to get voted and is more likely to second guess. I'm not sure it matters either way - we can see alisae came out the gates voting for krazy. impossible to override that if you choose to clear em.

[catboi]

What an emotional rollercoaster of a game

[catboi]

I want to send pooky my energy

[catboi]

._.

[catboi]

This just hurts, I can't even read it anymore ｡:ﾟ(;´∩`;)ﾟ:｡

It was getting so exciting too

[catboi]

You were right,we should have spared

What have I done

Mafia is suffering

I had no love in my heart

[catboi]

town should still win, but it's pretty close atm imo

I think it's irreversibly broken at this point.

[catboi]

so clearly you must do another Undertale :3

But now we've done the genocide path, it's going to permanently change the ending

[catboi]

:3

[catboi]

Okay but if you retire this account you have to tell us all your old ones

[catboi]

morning tweet deserves to win just for that post

[catboi]

I wonder if they can hear me from in here screaming [>—<]

I've been trying but it hasn't helped so far (´；д；`)