Mini Theme 2164: Betrayal Mafia I (Game over!)

[CreativeMod1]

VOTE: SirCakes

I will unvote when I get a cake

[CreativeMod1]

Gamma, that sucks...what game and why can't you play it for a while?

[CreativeMod1]

Lol so much going on, still trying to wrap my head round the whole set up

I explored last night

What is this voice that people are talking about? I may have missed it in the rules?

[CreativeMod1]

126 is a gross LAMISTY pile on to a gross LAMISTY sentiment. Yes, Nosferatu should try not to die. That's obvious, and there's no point to pointing out to Nosferatu except to try to look town, and Ydrasse was the second one to do it. 128 is seeking permission from the thread to do the obviously correct play tonight, which comes across as not wanting to be held accountable for her actions.

I disagree.

The rules section for this game is very long and I can definitely see someone missing the part about doctors being able to reduce knowledge by 1 each night or the part that if any stat is reduced to 0 it will result in death.

It's not at all helpful to attack people for pointing things out because the rules for this game are so long that I do not think any "interaction" is very obvious.

I've asked Nosferatu twice now about why his knowledge decreased and he still has not answered me so I can see him being oblivious or un-aware enough to not know he needs to increase his knowledge stat quickly to avoid death.

VOTE: Nosferatu

I also didn't catch this in the rules, but if doctors have an ability relating to reducing down their knowledge for something then it's kinda sus that someone has lower knowledge and I'd like to get to the bottom of this

[CreativeMod1]

UNVOTE: nosferatu

I probably should've actually reread the rules before replying
It seems more like nosferatu was subject to an attack by the doctors

[CreativeMod1]

I mis-interpreted what was being said, I thought that what was being said was scum had a thing in which they could lower their stats to do something else
But now I think that it's more of an attack made

[CreativeMod1]

Hello all, I'm here

Sorry I always get a little overwhelmed for day 1 because there's just so much talking but not a lot of actual stuff

Nosferatu, could you explain why you've got only 1 knowledge? I have a reason for my question and I'll explain it after you've answered

[CreativeMod1]

Lol fair, urm...

Okay, sod it, lets go for some blind trust and hope for the best, given the power we talked about earlier about how the doctors can reduce a players knowledge stat by 1, which would kill Nosferatu if used on them...I'm gonna do something about that I got a once per game ability that I can use at any time and I think I'm gonna use it now to prevent the doctors from getting a cheap and easy kill in the night

[CreativeMod1]

Why not?

[CreativeMod1]

I'm confused?

link to VC on this page

[CreativeMod1]

I'm trying to save your life here haha

[CreativeMod1]

Some people might be a little more grateful xD

[CreativeMod1]

You didn't need to say anything about your ability like wtf dude all I was saying was that I was gonna heal you up...no need to be rude and pissy about it

I have a once per game ability to heal someone, so I figured I'd heal the guy whose knowledge stats are low, thought it might be helpful in a game where a) we need knowledge to complete the objective and b) evil can take away our knowledge as an ability

Also, you might wanna double check your ability, you said that it goes off if someone attacks you...does the doctors operate ability count as an attack for this???

[CreativeMod1]

Tell me more, tell me more.

Did you get very far

Tell me more, tell me more.

Like does he have a car

CM, how much experience with mafia in general/gambits do you have?

I've had lots and lots of off-site experience, mainly IRL games and stuff like that. I've played a couple of games on site.
The thing I've least used to is having such long day phases and ngl, I always hate these day 1 phases where there's literally nothing to work with, only these weird reads based on how people act...idk I can never get my head around it so that's why I'm a bit on the quieter side with the earlier few days

why the fuck are you digging around my stats if ur not prepared for the explanation

i crumbed so hard, i evaded, i told fun and games straight up i had compensation for the stats decrease, not to mention its functionally IMPOSSIBLE for a doctor attack to result in my stats being exactly 1, there are at least 3 doctors, the attack is a factional ability either 1 or all 3/4 of them attack at once, i would either have 2 or 0 if the doctors had done it PLEASE make it make sense from your point of view why you decided to pester me so

Take a breather and calm down, this whole game is very experimental with lots of mechanics that are new. Honestly me asking was just to try and work out if you were town or not and thus worth saving, also you say I pestered you to do so...I asked 1 question, that's not exactly me pestering, but whatever it doesn't matter now anyway

[CreativeMod1]

VOTE: Ydrasse

V OTECOUNT 1.010
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES		S TRENGTH	S PEED	K NOWLEDGE	P LAYER N AME
Gamma Emerald	Pine	EL-6	3	3	3	Gamma Emerald
SirCakez	Fun and Games, Ydrasse, Gamma Emerald	EL-4	2	3	3	SirCakez
GeorgeBailey	None	EL-7	3	3	4	GeorgeBailey
CreativeMod1	None	EL-7	3	3	3	CreativeMod1
Albert B. Rampage	SirCakez	EL-6	3	3	3	Albert B. Rampage
Pine	None	EL-7	3	3	4	Pine
Bingle	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Bingle
Nosferatu	None	EL-7	3	3	1	Nosferatu
DoctorPepper	None	EL-7	3	3	3	DoctorPepper
PenguinPower	None	EL-7	3	3	3	PenguinPower
Fun and Games	DoctorPepper	EL-6	3	3	3	Fun and Games
Ydrasse	Bingle, PenguinPower, Albert B. Rampage, Nosferatu	EL-3	3	3	3	Ydrasse
beeboy	None	EL-7	3	3	3	beeboy
Not Voting	GeorgeBailey, beeboy, CreativeMod1
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate. Deadline: (expired on 2020-09-27 23:16:10)
Notes: DoctorPepper is V/LA until Sept 25 pagetops: Lilith 4 | penguin 5 | ABR 1 | gamma 1 | cm1 1

Mod: GeorgeBailey is voting Ydrasse.

The votecount is correct.

Urm....is this something we should be discussing? like George's vote isn't counting for whatever reason

[CreativeMod1]

Lol idk xD

[CreativeMod1]

Putting Ydrasse at EL-1

I still not sure exactly who I trust and don't trust but I suppose by putting them at EL-1 that we can get something going and we can work out if we think scum are on this wagon or not

VOTE: Ydrasse

[CreativeMod1]

I AM ASSASSIN.

my role allows me to attack someone as many times as my speed allows per night, rather than once; however, this does not allow me to do another specific action during the night.

i'm claiming because my other post didn't deter things but i would actually like to be useful and get multiple attacks off on scum, ty.

Hang on, this sounds like a scum sided role...like unless we've got powerful scum, I can't see why town would have a role like this?

[CreativeMod1]

Each player's life story and background provides them with a unique special ability called a Career, which is not linked to their alignment.

I don't understand why people are reading anything into careers as it is stated by mod to be unrelated to our actual alignments

Whilst I get this, I feel like she's more of talking about the flavour of said story/career....the actual power itself I just don't see why a town would have it.

I'm sticking to my vote here.

Take a breather and calm down, this whole game is very experimental with lots of mechanics that are new. Honestly me asking was just to try and work out if you were town or not and thus worth saving, also you say I pestered you to do so...I asked 1 question, that's not exactly me pestering, but whatever it doesn't matter now anyway

took a breather calmed down, heal me anyway cuz knowledge looks very flattering on me

Lol idk if I should now...dunno if you'd appreciate it

[CreativeMod1]

Yeah, rereading the ISO GB’s approach to the game just doesn’t feel town.

VOTE: GB

I would say that a scumflip here is moderately clearing for f&g amd cmod, if that happens and I die.

As much as I'd love to be put into a category of moderately cleared....I don't understand how a scum flip here would do this? Like looking at George's comments so far this game, he hasn't really said a lot, this is all he's said of me:

VOTE: Nosferatu

I also didn't catch this in the rules, but if doctors have an ability relating to reducing down their knowledge for something then it's kinda sus that someone has lower knowledge and I'd like to get to the bottom of this

UNVOTE: nosferatu

I probably should've actually reread the rules before replying
It seems more like nosferatu was subject to an attack by the doctors

I think this might be Town!CM indicative.

Looking at CM's meta, I can seem to find a single scum game, so if he were to roll it, it would be one of his first time playing. I don't think this slip up comes from Newb Scum.

although weirdly he talked about my previous games and how he can't find any scum games of mine but yet my last game on site was a scum game in which ngl, I manipulated the fuck out of town with multiple fake noob slips hahaha

[CreativeMod1]

I didn't go to the gym, I went exploring and I found a rather fun little item that I'd love to play with today
It's a homing pigeon, essentially I give it to another player and they can send me a 300 character message back, they can then send it back to me and I can make a reply.
So essentially I can use it to have private conversations with other players

If people trust me, I would love to send it out to a load of different people and if anyone has any information leading to a scum then I can out the information to the town but not who the information came from.

[CreativeMod1]

It's a bit weird in the way it works but from what I understand it works like this:
-I give pigeon to someone
-They send me a message
-They then have the pigeon to give to who they want

I will say that given it can be used as a powerful tool to send private messages in which scum can't see, I will be super sus of anyone who doesn't send me the pigeon back.
In terms of multiple gifting, I did ask and I was told that it can be gifted at any time and that it follows the normal rules of giving items which now looking at the rules states it can only be done once per day/night phase...which actually now that I think about it means I need to change this strat...hmm

Each Item can only be given away once per Dawn/Day/Night cycle. For example, if Player A gave an Item to Player B during Day 1, Player B could not give the Item to anyone until the start of Day 2

I'll hold onto it for now and then if I'm getting the sense that someone is trying to say something without actually saying it then I might send it their way


Also this is why I didn't go into the gym, felt it would've been a prime target for scum

[CreativeMod1]

I have some thoughts about the usage of the pigeon, but would be interested in why you think sending it to not you is scummy.

Oh, that was a semi-mistake

It wasn't until after I had written that line that I went to go check the rules about items, if it was a multi-use in 1 day then it would've been scummy to not send it back but if it's a once per day thing then it changes things and I forgot to change the rest of my post about it

link to Day 2 start/VC on this page

[CreativeMod1]

Ooo I stole page top!!!! Muhahahahahahhahahahaaha

[CreativeMod1]

Also this is why I didn't go into the gym, felt it would've been a prime target for scum

Why did you assume that scum would have an ability to target an entire room?

Very good question, tbh I was thinking of the actual Betrayal game and thinking about how you gotta be in the same room as someone to attack them or do actions against them

Either way as it's been mentioned by other people, both labs got activated and we know a roleblock happened in the Gym, given that I did something else, there's a good chance I didn't do any of the doctor sided actions (unless you think I'm a 4th doctor here)

[CreativeMod1]

Also this is why I didn't go into the gym, felt it would've been a prime target for scum

Why did you assume that scum would have an ability to target an entire room?

Very good question, tbh I was thinking of the actual Betrayal game and thinking about how you gotta be in the same room as someone to attack them or do actions against them

Either way as it's been mentioned by other people, both labs got activated and we know a roleblock happened in the Gym, given that I did something else, there's a good chance I didn't do any of the doctor sided actions (unless you think I'm a 4th doctor here)

[CreativeMod1]

VOTE: Bingle

I think I can get behind this tbh, I don't like how twice he's tried to clear me....kinda feels like he's trying to be all buddy buddy with me, today is a bit more understandable due to them using night actions as a reason to clear me, but I still don't understand what he said yesterday (as posted below) and he didn't answer me when I asked him about it, so Bingle...care to give an answer now?

Yeah, rereading the ISO GB’s approach to the game just doesn’t feel town.

VOTE: GB

I would say that a scumflip here is moderately clearing for f&g amd cmod, if that happens and I die.

As much as I'd love to be put into a category of moderately cleared....I don't understand how a scum flip here would do this?

Idk, for me it just feels like he's found someone who he feels is very towny and is making them look good so that when Bingle flips scum, town then distrusts said townies

[CreativeMod1]

Idk, for me it just feels like he's found someone who he feels is very towny and is making them look good so that when Bingle flips scum, town then distrusts said townies

I'd like you to clarify what my goal here as scum supposedly is, because your position is bonkers.

What I'm trying to say is IF Scum!Bingle hard defending Town!CM1 and then Bingle flips as being scum then there's a lot of sus now on CM1...but I will say is that yet again you haven't answered the question I asked you now twice, I don't understand what your logic was back then and I still don't

Except that exploring is a separate action from personal abilities and both can be done at the same time.

This is true. Cmod theoretically can prove one exploration. If cmod can prove the second exploration, they become unlikely to be the scum who activated labs. Cmod can heal a player. If this is true, they cannot be the scum who roomstopped.

None of this means cmod ISN’T scum, just that cmod is less likely to be scum than someone else, like you or me, who doesn’t have visible results.

As I said, I agree that it’s a bad look but it’s not a bad look to explore today. Which was what I said.

This is a very good point, I can prove my career right now if you'd like and I highly doubt that scum get 2 different careers, so there's no way I can be both healer and roleblocker
Also, yes I can prove a second exploration, I won't say exactly how unless pushed but I can prove it

Finally I've just had a thought, when we get round to voting someone off, if said player is a town player then I highly suggest they send their items to whoever they think is the towniest player....if we leave it on the floor then there's a chance that scum will be able to pick it up (likewise if you have a daytime ability, use it before you die)

[CreativeMod1]

See I still don't quite believe that cos otherwise you could end up with a scum who is a cop or a town who is a roomblocker (which whilst yes possible, I don't think would be too helpful for their own team)

I still think that it's more of the background and story isn't alignment based, I still think the career is

[CreativeMod1]

Hmm, so Pine claims to have tried to use the gym so there's no way he gained the knowledge from either Library or by doing another action

So either he as a Doctor did it or another Doctor did it

[CreativeMod1]

Hmm, so Pine claims to have tried to use the gym so there's no way he gained the knowledge from either Library or by doing another action

So either he as a Doctor did it or another Doctor did it

What?

Okay so unless I've missed something the only ways of changing stats are:
Items
Permanent rooms
Events
Careers
Doctors using their knowledge ability thing

Pine didn't use the Library Permanent room, Pine didn't go into any other room and thus didn't trigger any events, Pine hasn't claimed to have used any items and nor has he claimed to have used a career...only thing left is the Doctor's ability

[CreativeMod1]

Oh, he was...sorry mixed that up, I thought that cos all the talk about it was today that it happened last night

[CreativeMod1]

Kinda sus that cmod didn't target me last night

I was super confused on what you wanted, like lets be real you gave some very mixed feelings about whether or not I should use my powers on you.

Also my ability is an anytime ability. If you want I can do it right now, doesn't have to be the night.

[CreativeMod1]

Activate or Destroy

LABS

using Knowledge rolls.

Lets not get too confused, I think the post 6 rule is saying that we don't know what number the Doctors need to Activate a lab, all we know is that they need a knowledge roll

[CreativeMod1]

I see pine is at EL-1, can I request that we don't quick hammer here, I would like to use my items at some point today

[CreativeMod1]

My N0 action was also explore hence why I have 2 items not just 1

Im planning on sending both of my items out so that I can prove this but need to work out the right people to send to

[CreativeMod1]

I was also attacked by scum last night, so I’m more inclined to present any information I think is helpful now versus later.

Can we talk about this, if you were attacked surely you'd know your attacker?

[CreativeMod1]

Ohhh okay, that rule is in a different section so I must've missed it haha

[CreativeMod1]

Urm, I'm not the best at scum reads tbh but something doesn't sit right with me about bingle
I understand the mechanical scum read on pine but won't hammer until we've heard more from Pine

Also Pine, can you make sure you send out any items you have to your biggest town read before you die please

[CreativeMod1]

I'm so confused by a lot of things

Nos, you're saying you got operated on last night?

So if we count all the actions we believe Doctors did last night:
1) Roomblocked the gym
2) Activated Lab 1
3) Activated Lab 2
4) Operated on Nos
5) Factional attack on Gamma

[CreativeMod1]

Also, looking through Day 1 and I notice that George Bailey also had 4 knowledge and I think to myself....why oh why did we eliminate someone who has a higher knowledge and then I realised
We're all being stupid, scum can't just outright kill players but they can eliminate them during the day.
Who is the biggest threat to scum atm??? Players with highest knowledge!!!

So I'm gonna go back through Day 1 and see who pushed for that George elimination because I think there's probably some scum hiding there

[CreativeMod1]

Also also, why did we eliminate someone whose ability is based around not being able to vote until the Hammer??? That seems like a terrible scum ability

[CreativeMod1]

roomblock was probably factional

I doubt it's factional, but just in case...

@Mod, is it possible for the doctors to have other factional abilities that aren't listed in the rules? Or are all other abilities from their careers?
Also the factional Operate ability, is that a once per night thing?

If Nos is claiming to have been operated on last night, then that means that neither Pine nor Gamma got operated on last night?

[CreativeMod1]

I've just used my healer ability btw

[CreativeMod1]

Yup, and it'll show in the next vote count

[CreativeMod1]

He's... not doing anything. And it creeps me out.

Also I have more information. Didn't realize we could use our abilities whenever.

I'd like everyone to tell me in their next post who they would give a +1 knowledge to and why.

It depends on your ability, my one specifically says at any time which includes during the day
Is this you saying that you can give someone +1 knowledge?

[CreativeMod1]

V OTECOUNT 2.010
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES		S TRENGTH	S PEED	K NOWLEDGE	P LAYER N AME
Nosferatu	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Nosferatu

Just to make it clear about my ability

[CreativeMod1]

VOTE: Pine

I'm not 100% sold on Pine but I do think a Pine flip will give us a lot of info and therefore I wanna keep the pressure on

[CreativeMod1]

Can I recommend that in terms of labs, we don't put all our eggs into 1 basket

There is always the risk of the room blocker ruining plans or there could be a normal role blocker out there who could ruin things, so having 2 people trying for rooms could be a good idea anyway

Also, I have now sent out my homing pigeon, if whoever has it trusts me, I'd very much a message back informing me of anything that could be useful, just so I've got an idea of what's going on...I realise that's super vague but I hope that person knows what I mean

[CreativeMod1]

Wow you guys talk a lot

So first of all, I can confirm that I sent a stat boost to Gamma, this was the item I found on the first night, I've also sent he Pigeon to somebody which I found on the second night

I'm still yet to have a response from the Pigeon which I find a bit odd, was kinda hoping to get something from said person to so I know a bit more about them

Personally I wanna get a Pine flip here, I feel like it'll give us the most information and there's certain people I'd scum/town read depending on a Pine scum/town flip, if this fails I think I could go for F&G, I scum read them a bit atm

[CreativeMod1]

This town just goes round and round, the funny thing is that atm I feel like scum team is likely Pine/Bingle/F&G so I'm happy with any

I do have a slight worry about the person claiming to have an attacking role, it kinda lets them get away with claiming that they attacked someone in the night and get named for it, I'd like us to say that if they are gonna attack someone in the night that they only do what we as a town are suggesting and not just attacking whoever they want

[CreativeMod1]

In saying that, if Pine/Bingle/F&G flip scum then I'm happy for them to attack in that trio

[CreativeMod1]

Hey Chara, thanks for coming into the game

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the gamestate and in particular the wagon that was on you

[CreativeMod1]

In saying that, if Pine/Bingle/F&G flip scum then I'm happy for them to attack in that trio

oh do go on

~ skitter

Mainly F&G/Pine slots, but I feel like there's something up with these that makes me feel super sus of them as being scum partners, just they seem to be working together

[CreativeMod1]

Ooo, I do love end of deadline panic voting....everyone lets out their true colours and I can't wait to see a flip and use it to sus people tomorrow!!!

Hmm, idk if I fully am behind a bingle flip here, I know I was sus of them before but that was fairly weak sus, I think something we need to be thinking about with such an early flip is what'll give us the most information

Like in this game we're not gonna have so many night deaths and we're gonna have more day time deaths, so therefore we should be looking at using the eliminations as a tool of information...with that said I think we should be eliminating between Chara and F&G, I think this'd give us the most information:
F&G based on their own reads and how much I've seen them doing pushes and Chara because of how everyone else has pushed either for/against Chara...especially in this last couple of days, watching Chara go from on the chop to being fairly safe without any input from Chara...just doesn't sit right with me. Scum would've just let it happen.

[CreativeMod1]

VOTE: Fun and Games

Going from 1 scum read to another, I think that this is a flip that'll provide us some useful info based on my last post

[CreativeMod1]

Gamma no, look at things it's so clearly F&G with the Pine/Chara/Lava slot

Watch Lava hammer here...

[CreativeMod1]

Honestly, I'm not feeling so down on Fun and Games anymore, but they could be fooling me. I don't really like either side of ABR/FG. 1563 just seemed like a cop out excuse for him not to specify on reasons of thinking your reads were fake. However, I feel like there is somewhat of a "smug" air around you and ABR as if you think his reasons aren't believable and he isn't going to get you hanged which is somewhat surprising but also fits in with a scum narrative.

Flip bingle and have ABR prove his role on us if Bingle is not guilty.

I like the idea of this though

Coincidence that all 3 of this slot have had some connection with F&G???

[CreativeMod1]

Sorry I've been quiet but holy wow you guys just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk
And it's like so much fluff, but after an F&G flip we'll be able to put all the fluff together and work out some alignments

[CreativeMod1]

Nobody stopping to wonder why it's so difficult to eliminate a certain couple of players?

Maybe....Maaaaybe it's cos they're scum and scum are protecting them???

Like seriously as I was reading through the past 20+ posts I kept thinking to myself....how have we not flipped F&G yet? :O

[CreativeMod1]

I mean, it's probably too late now anyway cos half you lot are Americans who've probably gone to sleep by now

[CreativeMod1]

Both of you vote F&G and we can push for an elimination there

[CreativeMod1]

Both of you vote F&G and we can push for an elimination there

[CreativeMod1]

Jonny, you vote for F&G if you think that's the better elimination, Bingle if you're good then surely you'd want an elimination that isn't your own today, thus go for F&G, that'd bring them back to EL-2

I'm sure we can get 2 more votes

[CreativeMod1]

If Bingle flips town then I'm 100% gunning for F&G and Lava tomorrow

[CreativeMod1]

IKS's play makes absolutely no sense
If they're town then unless they have info pointing towards Noraa then there's much better choices for being shot there
If they're scum then they'd surely pass the gun to a more outed evil

With that said...I'm going hard against F&G today!!!

[CreativeMod1]

TOWN BLOCK:
Noraa, ABR, gamma, Johnny

Add CMod to the townblock, he healed someone, and he gave me the item that put my knowledge up to 6
Which, btw, expires at the end of today so if I can’t attempt the vault rn I’ll probably not worry about it for now

who the fuck even is Cmod?

Yeah so I can confirm that I gave Gamma a stat boost, I did this because I assumed that Gamma had some form of ability to target multiple labs

VOTE: Fun and Games
It was fun and you played some games but the tribe has spoken...
Like seriously, why didn't this vote happen yesterday?

[CreativeMod1]

Btw, I'd love it for the Homing Pigeon to come back to me at some point today, so whoever has it can they return it so I can say something back to them
Unless they feel that there's someone who they'd like to get private info from

[CreativeMod1]

VOTE: LavarManos

Explain? I mean I'm scum reading them too but I think the obvious first boot here is F&G

[CreativeMod1]

And i'm p confident that iks is town

The mind games have begun

[CreativeMod1]

Welp, looks like you guys talked a lot

Unless Gamma says any different, I'm sticking on the F&G wagon

[CreativeMod1]

As for why I'm town: DK, I healed you back to having 3 knowledge and I gave Gamma the items to stat boost to destroy the labs

[CreativeMod1]

For now I have them down as town!lean but it is always possible that upon replacing in they could see that we were looking into F&G as a upcoming elimination and thus went for a bus

[CreativeMod1]

But I'm not willing to eliminate them in the next couple of days

[CreativeMod1]

gamma is potentially scum still trying to be "town" with mechs. CM ill give benefit of the doubt

What the fuck are you talking about?

Gamma destroyed two labs and got attacked. He's way more confirmed town than you. Nos could easily operate on himself to throw off the town. His play is not town, the only reason we think you're semi-conftown is because we're weighing the odds of a setup vs. you being a real target.

Ngl the more that Dk speaks, the less I trust them, like idk social read they worry me....I'm in no way gonna be wanting to elim this slot for a while but uh, yeah idk just something to keep in mind.

I really don't like this whole thing of "give me all your items" like no, me and Gamma are much more confirmed town then you are. Gamma is pretty much about to die so I'm following Gamma's lead on this vote, not yours.

It is very possible that you are a doctor who was operating on yourself at the start to gain towncred, or maybe you have some power that relates to being low on knowledge (which'd make sense as to why Nos really didn't want me to heal them for a while)

[CreativeMod1]

Also Dk, even if you are town (which you most likely are) I feel like you're pushing in the wrong place atm...I'm more than happy to look into Nora at some point but not right now

[CreativeMod1]

Sadly mine is a once per game ability :'(

[CreativeMod1]

Gah, all I did was sleep and now theres another 20+ pages haha, I'm just gonna put thoughts in here as I read through, apologies if I say something that later gets addressed, also ngl but I'm skim reading half this game cos there's just so much

1) The votecount is very interesting, thank you very much. A big part of why I wanna flip F&G is due to the voting patterns, more so on the second day but also from the first day, I could 100% see a scum team of F&G and Lava

2) IKS I could also see as being scum from VC, notice how they were on Lava's wagon until it got too hot and then rejoined Lava's wagon once it cooled down

3) Looking at Lava's ISO's, I can see this being a trio

4) DK, chill out, just cos we have opposing views doesn't make either of us bad at the game. Also this is a democracy not a dictatorship, just because you're townier than most doesn't give you the right to take control of the game. I hate it when players play like that because it makes the game a lot less fun.

5) DK, a massive issue with your plan is that Nos had already told town about how your ability works, Scum will be able to account for it

6) Nora being scummy for going to the gym means nothing...I also went to the gym last night, does this make me scum? :O

7) Lol I find it funny that DK is calling out Gamma for being stubborn...

8) Lets look at the world in which Nora is scum, who needs 4 speed to do her rather powerful ability....why would scum stop her from getting it on the first night, like okay yes a lot of people got room blocked on that night (I wouldn't be surprised if some were scum lying about going there) I'd probably predict about 3 players actually got room blocked...Scum!Nora would rather gain her ability sooner rather than later

9) I noticed that DK is calling F&G townie for at the start of the game trying to coordinate who does what action that night and who visits what rooms...knowing who is planning on visiting what room is very powerful for scum who have a room-blocker, if they want to use that room-blocker as effectively as possible then knowing which room is gonna have the most people visiting is gonna be very helpful

10) Social read on DK is still scummy, I find it hilarious that they're trying to sow doubt on some of the other towniest players, not that I really should need to defend myself but here we go anyway:
a) I had no reason to share my stat boost with Gamma, I did so because Gamma hinted towards being able to attack multiple labs, I could've easily saved it hidden away for some late game attacks
b) I had no reason to use my heal ability on Nos/DK, especially cos Nos at first told me not to but eventually they asked me to do so and thus I did. Again I could've saved it for later to heal a scum buddy
c) I have proven all of my night actions with exploring and finding items as I have passed out all of my items to Gamma
d) Lets be real here, I'm a lot more townie then you are
e) We should all keep in mind though that there isn't any form of 100% confirmed town in this setup, from what I gather, there is no cop or anything like that

11) See point 4...DK, chill the fuck out, love that I'm about 10 pages in and I've gotta say this again, nobody is gonna listen to you or respect your views if you try to be a dictator...heck even if you were cop confirmed I wouldn't listen to you at this point. Stop being so rude and try listening to other people. This game is gonna require social reads, telling everyone what to do will not help our social reads, you need to let other players come up with ideas themselves so that we can grill them on why they'd suggest said ideas.

12) This plan of getting everyone to attack each other is so pointless, in fact scum are gonna love it 100% because they'll be able to get a load of damage done to half the town, they'll get to use the attack function on people without any downside

13) F&G, yes I am staying very firmly on your wagon, I'm not 100% certain you're scum but I'm a good 80% certain, I am however 100% certain that flipping you will give us sooooo much info, cos if you flip scum then we'll learn a lot, if you flip town then we'll know that our original ideas were wrong and thus we can re-evaluate, this is why I was so frustrated with the bingle flip yesterday, it gave us nothing...atm I think scum team are: F&G/Lava/IKS +1 other, Lava would be a pointless flip because I don't feel like they're active enough to be fighty on a future day, F&G I could easily see them being able to out-argue other players and get away with it (as they have been doing all day)

14) I highly agree with SirCakez, so much of this whole game has been spammy pointless arguments and it's made this game a massive tax to read, honestly I'm not surprised that PP quit the game, there's just so much bullshit happening and it's pointless

[CreativeMod1]

Lol I'm being told to sheep people like Gamma but I'm wrong to think that F&G is scum when Gamma also thinks it.....

On-site I might not have many games but off-site I've had plenty, both irl and online.

If F&G were town then this wagon would be much easier to get people on it, but it's not there's been so many people against it both yesterday and today, it's almost as if there aren't any scum who are wanting to get away with a quick and easy town elim

Also it's not just voting patterns, look at the ISO of F&G and Lilith during day 2, before there was any heat on Pine/Lava F&G was saying that they were down and more than happy to vote for Pine, but then when heat got onto Pine F&G started defending Pine and tried making pushes elsewhere.

Nora is a slot which I'm not 100% sold on but is not a slot I wanna elim right now, if she's scum then I'll deal with her later, honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Nora is scum bussing F&G who is also scum to gain town-cred

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Feel like I'm in North Korea, can't go against Dictator DK otherwise they might think I'm a traitor :O Would LOVE to hear this game solve with my name on it, that shit's hilarious...whilst you're at it, please explain why I wasted all my abilities and items on town and whilst you're at it please go back to my last post and explain parts 10a-10e

I feel like if we don't elim F&G today then Gamma will die in the night and you're gonna go on this full dictatorship and never allow anyone to try and elim F&G


In all seriousness, stop acting like such a child, stop acting as if you're an expert who knows everything and taking full control of the town, take a backseat and listen to others. This is a team game not a solo game, even if you're 100% right (which heck, you could be) this is not the way to go about pushing your reads. You need to realise that there are other people on this team who also have reads and want to follow up with those reads. It is possible for you to be wrong about your reads, just like it's possible for us to be wrong about ours.

Essentially DK, please take a step back and know that yours isn't the only voice in the game and if you want people to listen and respect to you then you need to listen and respect them. I will NEVER sheep you if you don't listen to and respect the other players in this game.

Finally, as for why I haven't posted as much and thus there's less of a social read for me, there's just soooo many pages to go through that it's very taxing to keep up let alone do anything else, I'd very much appreciate it if everyone chilled out just a little bit. Reading through everything is just becoming so much of a chore which is then not helped when it also becomes mentally taxing watching all the pointless arguments.

[CreativeMod1]

Hey everyone. So a few things
1) Not sorry for the FnG flip, if we didn't flip it yesterday I feel like it would've been something that would've been nagging for ages and I'd rather have flipped it earlier rather than at a ElLo situation
2) I was operated on last night but I also visited the library so my knowledge is staying the same
3) I've hit a booby trap, I can either get out of it easily and be fine, or risk a slightly harder roll and try to get an item...
4) Nora, your towncred was mainly surrounding FnG flipping scum
5) Hi the worst, thanks for subbing in

[CreativeMod1]

I went to the Library because I had 2 actions and I didn't wanna risk doing explore twice in case both explores ended up with negative effects.

Anyways, I did my event and I found an item, I've got a flashlight which essentially allows me to see a bit better, if a Doctor tries to use the anon attack on me, I'd know who was actually attacking me.

So essentially right now, Me, Gamma and DK are fairly safe from Doc attacks in 1 way or another (Me due to knowing who is attacking me, Gamma due to the item that stops attacks and DK due to their career)

[CreativeMod1]

I revealed it because I think we're better off keeping our conf3 alive and forcing the docs to attack outside of us 3 is gonna be more helpful in the long run as they'll be forced to kill off unknowns

[CreativeMod1]

No DK is conftown bc that slot got attacked by doctors multiple times and helped gamma blow up labs

They didn't help with the labs, I was the one to help gamma blow up labs

[CreativeMod1]

Personally I'm of the opinion that we probably have more scum in this setup than normal due to the lack of scum kills and the fact that town can kill scum in the night

Also whilst I don't think Nora is as townie as I had originally thought, I don't see why Scum!Nora wouldn't claim that she attacked Lava? Like after seeing Lava is dead, there's no proof that she did/didn't attack

[CreativeMod1]

Ohhhhh, I know what Nora did...

[CreativeMod1]

Before we see the results of labs being destroyed/activated... I'd very much like to get everyone claiming if they went to a lab and which lab and what their results were for each lab

I visited both labs and failed on both of them

[CreativeMod1]

Also I'd very much appreciate it if we didn't have the whole day phase whilst I'm asleep this time xD

[CreativeMod1]

Im vla but here are my actions :

ok so I went exploring(results after I asked mod a few things about this event) and destroyed a lab. I rolled a 1 and failed to destroy the lab. Iks attacked me and I take 1 damage. still haven't decided which stat. I'll prolly go strength cuz I need my two actions for speed.

Which lab did you try to destroy?

[CreativeMod1]

Just so I got some clarifications on the labs

Carl: Johnny (destroy) DK (destroy) Nora (Fail) Me (fail)
Albert: Johnny (Fail) DK (destroy)

And by Gamma's claim of rules question (which I'm gonna ask here too) Doctors can't destroy labs, so unless anybody else claims to have tried to destroy Albert, DK is 100% confirmed good (which we pretty much had anyway, like they were 95% confirmed, but having 100% is so much nicer)

MOD, can we just confirm what you said to Gamma....Doctors cannot destroy labs?

[CreativeMod1]

After a bit of thinking, I wanna go all in on taking full control of everyone's night actions and also taking control of everyone's careers

Whose careers do we know so far?

[CreativeMod1]

I have an idea on how I can 100% confirm myself to be town

It'd depend on something super juicy happening, but leash me to being the only person trying to destroy the lab

[CreativeMod1]

Hopefully if I've understood something correctly, I should have a high enough stat to destroy the lab tonight

[CreativeMod1]

DK, something just happened and you should stay 100% silent about it until at least tomorrow or until it becomes useful in someway

Also DK, is there a player whose Career you think is made up?

[CreativeMod1]

Gamma, I'll tell you why we're leashing

DK has an item which can auto-destroy labs providing it isn't activated. So if we leash everyone from being able to activate it then we're safe to destroy it

[CreativeMod1]

Hey everyone, sorry I haven't been as active the past few days, had a bit of a rough time IRL recently

So in terms of night actions, I thought I had showed a plan in which it would've been better to get more confirmed townies? And thus having people take turns in destroying labs would be a great way of doing this

I kinda thought that what I sent you DK would be a great way to show this too. In any case, I don't think it's wise for me to be involved in this circle of death.

Actually, I think the circle of death is possibly a bad idea all round, it potentially weakens loads of people allowing for scum to potentially pick off half of us on a future night. Whilst right now we're hard to kill, we could end up in a night in which multiple townies die leaving us in a very stuck point.

I think the more confirmed players the better position we're gonna be in

[CreativeMod1]

Finally, DK is there anyones career you do not trust/believe?

[CreativeMod1]

Yeah, and I'm suggesting I be the first one
Just gotta hope I out-roll if someone scum tries to activate it, but I should be okay for tonight.

I'm gonna have 4 knowledge tonight

[CreativeMod1]

Circle of death is bad idea

If a load of townies have their strength down to 1 then all it takes is a couple of scum to kill 3 players in 1 night

[CreativeMod1]

I'm all down for claiming actions and I think it'd be very helpful for us to all claim everything now
N0: Explored and found a stat booster item which I gave to Gamma to help destroy labs
N1: Explored and found the homing pigeon messenger thingy
D2: Gave Stat booster/homing pigeon to Gamma, used my career to heal Nos/DK's Knowledge
N2: Go to Gym and gained 1 speed
N3: Go to library and explored: Got operated on by doctors so gained and lost a knowledge. Found an event which let me find an item whilst risking losing stats
D4: Risked the event and found a Flashlight (if anon attacked/operated on by doctors, I'd learn the identity of said doctors)
N4: Explored and tried to destroy Carl Heller Lab, I failed at the destroying and I found an item
D5: Sent item I found during the night to DK

[CreativeMod1]

It's not proven and could just be some weird scum gambit. Lavar was doomed and would've been the next days lim so I wouldn't even be surprised if a partner just killed them off to get towncred.

-tsunami

Whilst I agree that this is a possibility, I doubt it at this time because I'm sure they'd rather keep as many scum alive as possible for as long as possible and force town to kill off the scum. Especially when scum have got a 1 shot multi anon attack power

[CreativeMod1]

Could we also get Career claims too whilst we're at it btw

[CreativeMod1]

Also yes I got an item from Johnny

And whoooooop Page Top

[CreativeMod1]

I very much agree with Tsunami here, could you please lay out your actions like everyone else has....your night 3/4 actions are confusing

[CreativeMod1]

Which unless otherwise proven, leads me to think that you're purposely trying to be confusing

[CreativeMod1]

This is what I've got so far for the worst, am I missing anything? What did you get from exploring on Night 3

N1: Explore and found Library
N2: Use Gym and got blocked
N3: Explored and found??? Also used a career on Gamma
N4: Went to Gym

Dang it Gamma, I was hoping to catch out The Worst with them not claiming actions for all the nights

[CreativeMod1]

Can we also get claims from everyone on when they have been attacked/operated on too, within these lists

[CreativeMod1]

I was attacked by IKS last night. Other than that, scum haven't so much as touched me. Tonight, no one is allowed to attack me cuz I will die if I get attacked by a townie and then a scum 100%. If only attacked by scum, I might be able to survive.

-tsunami

Why do you say this? Looking at the stats you've got better stats than quite a few people?

[CreativeMod1]

I know I used my career accomplification on Gamma n3 and explored, then hit the gym broooooo on n4

d4? or whenever I gave gamma an item

Brb I'll get pengo's akshuns

It aint hard? Yes because this post makes 100% sense

Sod it

VOTE: The Worst

I feel like you're clearly trying to be confusing on purpose, everyone else made a simple list easily.

Also, just to make it clear, please don't all jump onto this vote quickly before we have a chance to get lists out of IKS, some form of list might be helpful from Gamma and DK but aren't needed if they don't want to. I'd also like for us to Dictate who is trying to destroy the lab tonight

Oh also, asap I'd like the Pigeon back from the person who currently has it, I'd like to share a very important piece of information with them

[CreativeMod1]

That post was being made before the last few posts, but my vote still stands

[CreativeMod1]

Can I ask what your career is? and what it allowed you to do?

Although, better for Gamma to decide whether that's an okay question to ask.

I'm only asking so that I can have a complete set of notes on everything

[CreativeMod1]

i swear you're too smart to think "ah yes, the scum are going to march into a mechanical circlejerk and survive by... uncharismatically attemping to confuse everyone... by using a different kind of list format for their night actions" like that is hands down the stupidest read i have ever seen in my entire mafia career and your vote feels slimy and oversold

The bit that I quoted was what made me think that you were purposely being confusing, not because of your formatting

[CreativeMod1]

Currently the plist is:

what's a plist?

[CreativeMod1]

im 100% clear so frankly i dont need to claim but i have already claimed so that list is wrong anyways

I know you are and that's why I wanted you to go last, i'm only asking for the sake of helping to fully gamesolve, in any case I really want IKS actions

Can I ask what your career is? and what it allowed you to do?

Although, better for Gamma to decide whether that's an okay question to ask.

I'm only asking so that I can have a complete set of notes on everything

If EVERYONE ELSE thinks worsty should claim career then I’m with them just so we don’t have that sticking out as an outlier, but my personal idea is he should not be forced to claim it
I know what it is, so even if he dies I can still claim it for him

That's fair, careers is something I'm very interested in and I'll explain why to whoever sends me the pigeon tonight

psa: scum!cm1 plays consistently crazy strong mechanical scumgames and should explicitly not be cleared for playing a crazy strong mechanical scumgame

Awwww <3 thanks babes <3
But as DK says, depending on something that could happen, I've pretty much thrown the game if I'm scum by what I've given them


But yeah, I'm very happy to be the only person who is trying to go for the lab tonight, I have an idea on what to do for my other actions

[CreativeMod1]

Also DK, there's something that Gamma and I know which is why they'd rather I try to do the Lab tonight, but we can postpone it for a future night

[CreativeMod1]

That's fair, I'm fine with whatever it's not really a big thing that me and Gamma know about

[CreativeMod1]

To be fair, at this point given that Me, Gamma and DK are fairly safe from scum attacks (me due to my flashlight, Gamma due to their defence item and DK due to their career)

I kinda don't care if other people die in the night, like Tsunami...if you don't die in the night, you'll probably get eliminated at some point during the day by us, maybe not tomorrow but some point soon

Personally I do see you as a town lean, but I'm not 100% sure, like I'd rather go towards Worst and IKS but we'll find out more soon

[CreativeMod1]

as long as more labs aren't discovered tonight / the lab isn't activated we can just dogpilr and fix that the next night

Well if I'm the only one going to the lab then it won't get activated, like if it gets activated then you can elim me tomorrow

[CreativeMod1]

GUYS UNVOTE, JUST FOR A MOMENT

[CreativeMod1]

Unvote and I'll tell you why, feel free to revote after I've said something

[CreativeMod1]

Thank you,

I will not let IKS hammer this without claiming night actions
IKS is the only player who hasn't claimed their night actions and I'd like them to do so before we go to night

[CreativeMod1]

Feel free to hammer AFTER IKR has claimed

I mean, I'm against this nomination in general but I'll go along with it if that's what town wants

[CreativeMod1]

Cakes, it depends on what the item can do

[CreativeMod1]

Can someone else unvote? Like I'm sorry but if IKS comes in here and hammers before claiming night actions then I'm gonna be pissed

[CreativeMod1]

DK, all unclears have provided their actions, for reasons I can't explain right now, I need actions from IKS

[CreativeMod1]

DK, all unclears have provided their actions, for reasons I can't explain right now, I need actions from IKS

[CreativeMod1]

No cos they'll just try to spin it that they missed about the action claims or something

[CreativeMod1]

I'd much rather an IKS elim tbh

[CreativeMod1]

But I still want some actions from them

[CreativeMod1]

Not to be that guy buuuuut, can we get a prod on IKS?

[CreativeMod1]

I mean to be fair on them, their N0 action was a 100% provable action so I can understand why they didn't wanna claim it

[CreativeMod1]

VOTE: IKS

Meh, I think I'd rather this over Cakez, I'm not 100% sold on Cakez being scum, especially as they killed another scum

If Cakez is scum then they're the voice and that's it.

Idk about on here but I know that in real betrayal you don't have to use weapons if you don't want to, if Cakez was scum too then they'd not have used their weapon to make the kill, they'd have just tried to weaken lava and claim to have gotten bad rolls.

If the weapon isn't optional then I feel like they could've given the weapon to a scum buddy during that night

[CreativeMod1]

I'm the only one attacking the lab, please nobody else try to attack the lab so that we can prove me to be good!

[CreativeMod1]

Also send pigeon to me, I got things to say

[CreativeMod1]

Hello all you wonderful people!!!

So first off, GG everyone!

Lilith, it was a great concept and I love the idea of everything. I do agree that it was a little townsided but I think there's ways in which it can be balanced and I really hope you decide to run this again, if you do then I'm already a pre-in (or I'd love to help moderate it, I'm a massive fan of the game and have some ideas that could help balance things)
I think the biggest balancing issue does come with the night deaths and lack thereof, I think having 1 more scum here and giving them a little more power to do damage could've helped them. 1 idea I think should be explored if you run this again is having a haunt with a monster that scum controls, this can be something that has a higher and unknown strength which can cause more damage, I'd suggest this rather than the anon attack mechanic.
I loved the idea of exploring the house and finding rooms and I loved the use of items. I also loved how each item and career was balanced to make it so that it's useful for both good and evil (although I'd possibly make the careers more specialised towards good/evil if you run this again, it can give evil a bit more power to help them) Also, idk if I got super lucky but I think there was too many items compared to events.
I think the last thing I'd suggest is trying to find a way around leashing people to doing certain actions as this makes things much harder for scum.

As for everything else that's being said by the players. Personally I enjoyed this game.

DK, I'm glad that you're taking on board feedback, I do agree that whilst your mechsolve was good, I agree that the way you went about things wasn't the best. I know I joked about calling you a dictator and I think that was me venting my frustrations. I knew you were a good player but I think it's important to take a step back and let other players contribute towards things.
Part of the reason why I gunned for F&G that day (partially because I thought they could be scum) but also because I was worried that if me/Gamma had died and F&G was scum you would've have ever elim'd them so I wanted to take that possibility off the board

[CreativeMod1]

Whilst I agree with what you're saying Albert, it depends on how true you wish to be to the OG game, idk how much betrayal you've played but in betrayal that happens and it sucks. But you'd have to find ways to work around it.
There's items in betrayal which allow for +x to rolls or allows you to pre-pick a number for your roll or something like that. But a lot of betrayal is luck of the dice and I think that aspect of betrayal should be a key part of the game

[CreativeMod1]

I really hope you do carry on doing this as a series, in answer to all of your questions, I think you should look at what can stay true to the source material first and then look at what you can do to balance it, everything has the power to be balanced with other parts of the game.

mechanics

- should stats be private?
No, but I don't think you should have anything that can abuse this (such as DK's thing)
- should the sender of items be private?
Depends on the item but no (maybe you could include a negative item thats secret)
- should you not receive the identity of your attacker?
Not for a normal attack, reveal those (maybe items/events can change this)
- should you not receive the results of your own actions?
Should always normally know what you've managed to do (but again there could be events/items to change this)
- which dice roll(s) should you see the results of, if any?
Always know the exact die number you roll, like in the game

- should rooms be harder to find or have a different distribution?
I think this is probably one of the biggest things you should change which could help out scum. I'd recommend having a lot more events and a lot less items (I believe the main game has more event rooms than item rooms) and then have some more negative events in the game. With this you can then include the rule that Scum don't have to do events (as per normal rules) but may if they wish. This can help scum because it'll mean that the good team can get hit by random stat losses.
- should actions be unlimited or set to a different threshold?
Whilst I personally quite liked the system you had, it does lead to the obvious problem of leashing night actions, a good way of combating this is to have it as a dice role, start the game with 1 dice roll, if you roll a 0 then you must explore or visit a public room, if you roll anything higher than you have the option of what you wish to do with the number you rolled=the number of actions. And then have rooms/events/items allow for more dice to roll.
Within this system you could say that like how scum don't have to do events, they have a bit more power over their rolls here, maybe a 0 roll for them still gives them the option to do what they want but just 1 action.
- should stats have a different scale/limit?
Eh, I don't think this should be changed, I think this was alright as it is tbh
- do stats need to be easier or harder to change?
I think it should be easier for them to go down maybe?
- were items too overpowered?
A little bit imo, but I think adjusting for events and stuff and if items are rarer then it should be fine.
- should the number of players be adjusted (eg 3v8)?
All depends on the haunt and how much possibility there is for night death, I'd maybe make it 4 scum if there's not gonna be a guaranteed night death

Haunt balance

- were labs too easy to destroy?
No, I think they were fine
- should scum have been able to destroy them in order to prevent confirmability?
I think within the next haunt there shouldn't be too much to confirm anyone
- should the distribution of labs have been higher?
Not sure, I think having roughly 2 around at any one time was a good number
- should the labs have been less difficult to activate?
I think being able to activate them easier could've been helpful for them
- should doctors have had additional factional night actions? what type (ie extra attacks, extra lab activation, extra open actions for whatever they want, or some combination of those)?
I think a haunt involving a monster would probably be the best way to combat this, giving a monster that has unknown stats and maybe a couple of thematic powers could be good. This allows for an anon attack mechanic which has a higher chance of dealing damage (and can't lose stats)

As for randomness, I think it's good to keep in the randomness but as said before I think that scum should be able to avoid some of the elements of randomness (ie through events)

[CreativeMod1]

Can I get it on mobile or chromebook?

Sadly no, it's on steam...I feel your pain, I also use a chromebook xD Thankfully I steal my partners laptop sometimes

[CreativeMod1]

An idea for a future haunt.
If you're running another haunt that doesn't have so much chance of scum kills, I'd recommend adding a timer mechanic similar to the turn order timer in the board game.

[CreativeMod1]

Oh also, idk if anyone has seen yet but my 'flashlight' was 100% a lie, I was gonna tell Gamma this when they sent me the pigeon, but I just didn't want scum to try and attack me at night