Mini Theme 2165: MafiaSunny (Complete!)

[Haschel Cedricson]

Vote DoctorPepper

.

He knows why.

[Haschel Cedricson]

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

Your icon makes me motion sick

Is that a joke vote or are y'all just seasick af

[Haschel Cedricson]

Is there a reason for anyone voting anything or are y'all so caught up in the glory that is Sunny that you are just voting randomly

(pls this is my 0.5th game of mafia, if this is a tradition i aint familiar)

Huh, I was going to yell at you for ignoring my question earlier but now I guess you've answered it by accident.

Unrelated, that History of Sunny belongs in the Library of Congress.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm actually increasingly happy with this Gamma Emerald vote though. You should hop on this wagon

Elaborate.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I do not know what townblocs are in this context and I am actively disinterested in learning, so I'm not convinced yet.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Ah, cool, we have our first wagon.

UT, brighteningskies, please talk about these votes some more.

[Haschel Cedricson]

ut quick: what ISNT garbage

Got you there, UT

Any particular reason you skipped the relevant posts by UT?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Is there a reason to suspect otherwise?

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm not concerned with you ribbing UT; I agree it's obvious that was the intent of your post.

I'm just asking why you didn't comment on

townblocs are garbage. they give scum a place to hide and an easy list of who to nightkill.

plus I reflexively like to yeet people who stand up and say "I am the leader of this game"

considering it was the first vote on you that didn't appear to be RVS and kickstarted a wagon onto you.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Sheeping can be used by scum in many ways and I thought townbloc was for a reason/because of a read not just because let's burn a random person? Otherwise might as well call it scumbloc

Also why aren't you asking chkflip & RECK why they voted VP too?
(Or at least rather why they kept their votes on VP)

Interesting.

As for your question, I didn't ask them because I don't care yet.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm gonna start a schism.

1) Meta is trash
2) Meta is NOT trash if it is a meta that you personally have witnessed
3) Never allow another player to tell you what their meta is
4) Never allow another player to tell you what their meta is
5) Meta is NOT trash if it is a meta that you personally have witnessed
...
94) Meta is trash
95) Never allow another player to tell you what their meta is

Sorry it's repetitive but I had to get to 95 somehow.

[Haschel Cedricson]

The disparity between these two posts is atrocious. In the first you're applauding xRECKONERx as helpful town and in the second you're chastising Haschel for asking you a question you found to be unhelpful. What pings me here is simple: they both posted equally. RECK's post about the history of Sunny, though enlightening for the kids not following along in the appreciation thread, wasn't remotely alignment indicative. Yet you're seemingly taken aback by something you don't think will help engage you in a way that'll show your own alignment? Pardon my French, bud, but that doesn't make any fucking reasonable amount of sense to me.

VP's posting isn't great but this post is also bad.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Sure. Let's both do it.

Spoiler: Here is why it is bad. No peeking until you've also answered the question.

I'll post the actual answer in my next post; no fair copying off of me!

[Haschel Cedricson]

Alright the thread is moving on so instead of waiting for UT I'll just give my answer now.

The post about Reck was obviously a joke, everybody here knew it was a joke, and seeing it being misinterpreted to be a seriouspost and then having that misinterpretation serve as the foundation for an argument is not a good look.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I also considered posting that picture but was too lazy to edit out the slur.

[Haschel Cedricson]

The mountain out of a molehill part is accurate, but it had little to do with the room and more to do with the opportunity it presented. I've got at least four, maybe five, townreads out of my play.

That being said, let's hear these reads.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Try again.

If you're gonna use "I was just trying to get reads!" as an excuse, then you better be able to prove you got some reads.

[Haschel Cedricson]

You feel the pressure to claim but not to give the reads you claim to have gotten. Care to explain?

[Haschel Cedricson]

I am no longer convinced these reads actually exist.

Vote: chkflip

[Haschel Cedricson]

Okay I missed the entirety of Day 1 but that chkflip wagon was bad.

A bit sus of the people who jumped in with empty votes after it was gaining steam

And which people would those be?

VP Baltar, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the chkflip wagon.

[Haschel Cedricson]

VP Baltar, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the chkflip wagon

Why did you hammer in that situation Haschel? Why not let the MANY stragglers comment first?

I hammered because chkflip was acting like scum and by refusing to give any of the several town reads that Townchkflip should have been happy to provide it read like he knew he was going down and he was desperate to prevent anybody from being connected to him. Any scumbuddies surely would have bussed him at that point so I wasn't concerned with hearing comments.

Yep VOTE: chkflip

Here's.one

Cool. You said "people" meaning plural. Show me some others.

honestly the fact that AE and HC hopped on chkflip after that immaculate breadcrumb post is kinda strange?

I didn't vote him for having an immaculate breadcrumb; I voted him for not showing any evidence of having reads despite his claims to the contrary. As for the breadcrumb I don't know how many fucks the rest of you put into that but I promise you that number is too high. Flavor breadcrumbs are worthless at the best of times and a game where the rules say that it is unbreakable by flavor is nowhere near the best of times.

I'll bite, though, what exactly is "strange" about it? Be specific.

Yesterday's wagon drew all the focus and today has just started so that's where I'm at atm.

He brought it on himself, hard to take much away from the people who bit when he was acting like scum.

Is that the best you have? You're just shrugging your shoulders because chkflip was scummy? Let's reverse it; if you have no takes on people for joining the wagon how about the people who didn't joing the wagon?

[Haschel Cedricson]

he knew he was going down and he was desperate to prevent anybody from being connected to him.

So you were convinced he was scum, but rather than forcing the day longer to maybe build some of those connections, you hammered before several people have much comment on it at all?

He was twisting in the wind and not giving info; all that would have happened would have been scumbuddies taking the chance to build towncred.

Granted this was all assuming that he was going to actually flip scum but I was very confident that was how it was going to happen.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Granted this was all assuming that he was going to actually flip scum but I was very confident that was how it was going to happen.

Im a little shocked by the confidence honestly.

So I'm guessing you took the speed of his wagon to be town driven. What are your thoughts on the wagon now? What are the odds scum were on there?

Conversely I'm shocked anybody would be shocked by the confidence. Chkflip was acting scummy, got called on it, then admitted to being scummy but said it was all part of a test to get reactions and reads. Now, in a vacuum I have no problem with that whatsoever. But he gave no indication that this was true at all. When I see a townie get ran up to L-1 I usually see them try to get the vote onto somebody else. A player with reads would be able to do that. Failing that if they think their execution is inevitable they would be telling the town their last suspicions. Chkflip did none of those things and I'm not gonna apologize for hammering.

As for your question, I do think there is scum on the wagon. Probably just one, since chkflip was playing poorly enough to get misexecuted. I'll go one further; that scum is Ythan.

Let's reverse it; if you have no takes on people for joining the wagon how about the people who didn't joing the wagon?

Difficult to say considering you quick hammered before everyone could weigh in.

So comment on the ones who could. Agar, UT, brighteningskies, tn; all of them posted while this was going on and had a chance to weigh in. In fact, it's just Doctor Pepper and janko/Noraa who didn't. Don't use the fact that two people needed to be prodded as an excuse to not comment on either side of the wagon.

I didn't vote him for having an immaculate breadcrumb; I voted him for not showing any evidence of having reads despite his claims to the contrary. As for the breadcrumb I don't know how many fucks the rest of you put into that but I promise you that number is too high. Flavor breadcrumbs are worthless at the best of times and a game where the rules say that it is unbreakable by flavor is nowhere near the best of times.

I'll bite, though, what exactly is "strange" about it? Be specific.

I have never in all my years see scum go through the effort to BREADCRUMB VANILLA TOWN.

The breadcrumb had nothing to do with flavor. It literally said "I'm VT". Unless I'm high? I'm not high.
So... were it me, had I had a chance to come back after that, I would've very heavily advocated we NOT eliminate town.
It just screamed town to me.

Ah yes, using the word "booty" to refer to Butt Sunny and the manhole reference. Truly breadcrumbs with nothing to do with flavor.

A VT breadcrumb is useless.

I mean, this town turbolynched someone for not being part of the old boy's club, so here we are, 2 town dead and possessing barely more information than we did during RVS.

You wanna rephrase this? Because this is a horribly inaccurate assessment of why chkflip was killed.

would. you. care. to. elaborate. on. your. scumread. on. reck?

IIoa and their tone seems ... idk the best I can describe it is fake. just some gut scum pings that are getting me a SR

it took me asking three times to get this weak shit?

correct

This is bad.

Not sure how anyone expects anyone to have reads worth a damn on page 10 given the current meta heavily favors 100 page day 1's.

Be the change you want to see on the website.

[Haschel Cedricson]

You wanna rephrase this? Because this is a horribly inaccurate assessment of why chkflip was killed.

This wasn't a rhetorical question, by the way.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I mean, this town turbo

yeeted

someone for not being part of the old boy's club, so here we are, 2 town dead and possessing barely more information than we did during RVS.

...

For somebody bitching about how short yesterday was you sure seem to be committed to not reading it.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Pour one out for the newb Chkflip, voted out entirely for being newb-town only *checks notes* 9 years and 10 months after they registered for MafiaScum.

[Haschel Cedricson]

if you think im just trying to indicate that im here without doing anything why not put your vote where your mouth is and hit me with that 1v1?

Is that at me?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Ythan, since you don't seem to want to analyze the wagon yesterday why don't you start with tn instead?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Ythan, since you don't seem to want to analyze the wagon yesterday why don't you start with tn instead?

Not great!

What isn't great?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Persistently and consistently mischaracterizing yesterday imo. My answer may be colored because i just read through mostly interactions involving him before catching up to your post I responded to but I feel pretty confident about it still looking back. He isn't near a hammer is he I'm gonna park my vote there I think.

Fascinating. Tell me more.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel, if you had a one-shot big right now, who would you elim?

Ythan or tn. Actually leaning tn right now because Ythan made a few posts I saw in my skim that looked good but I need to reread everything posted since I went to sleep last night.

Just looked at Haschel's ISO.. so much saying "this is bad" without actually saying why anything is bad, many questions on other people to get them to simply elaborate without actually asking real questions.
Haschel would you please elaborate on why you thought ckflip was scum?

To the first point, that's called scumhunting. To the second, I have no problem answering but before I do is there literally anybody in the thread who doesn't already understand that? I get people don't agree with my premises but I have been very clear about what they were.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Persistently and consistently mischaracterizing yesterday imo. My answer may be colored because i just read through mostly interactions involving him before catching up to your post I responded to but I feel pretty confident about it still looking back. He isn't near a hammer is he I'm gonna park my vote there I think.

Fascinating. Tell me more.

If you got questions you gotta ask them. I'm not answering to "more".

My question is "Do you have any original thoughts about tn that aren't just repeating back the opinions I already gave?"

Just looked at Haschel's ISO.. so much saying "this is bad" without actually saying why anything is bad, many questions on other people to get them to simply elaborate without actually asking real questions.
Haschel would you please elaborate on why you thought ckflip was scum?

Try again.

If you're gonna use "I was just trying to get reads!" as an excuse, then you better be able to prove you got some reads.

For example: why is this not valid? Surely a town player could also mess up trying to get reads in a particular way and failing?

A town player could mess up trying to get reads and fail. Chkflip didn't fail, though; he specifically said he'd gotten four or five reads out of the deal and then refused to share.

No I get you're scumhunting but it feels a bit like scumhunting in a way where nothing is shared with town. What opinions do you actually have on players because if you're getting reads from your scumhunting, you ain't sharing them yet apparently?

1) I'll share them once they're formed; not every road leads somewhere useful.
2) I already have shared several. But right now I townread Agar and VP Baltar, maybe UT. I scumread Ythan and tn. I'm not thrilled with you, Noraa, or Gamma. No opinions on everyone else yet.

Speaking of Gamma...

Just because I’m not going full Sherlock Holmes doesn’t mean I’m not contributing, and even if I wasn’t actively solving at all, just posting still counts as content.

That's technically true, if only because when the only scumhunting from you that made an impression on my catch-up was your bad nightkill analysis and the hydra theory then the lack of other stuff is content in and of itself.

I think I need to start limiting the elim pool for my own sanity here. I'm not getting super strong reads so far, and sorting newer player behavior from scuminess is not my specialty.

Feeling fairly town enough on Gamma, skies, Reck and UT that I wouldn't want to yeet them today.

It's a real toss up for me between Haschel and Ythan for who was worse on the chkflip elim. Ythan seems a little more probing today, but still pretty useless in actually pushing the game forward. Haschel has better content, but that hammer explanation was a dog turd. The problem here is a real lack of information to sort due to speed and Ythan's lack of posting. I need to double check myself here, but I believe Ythan was on site and posting on the day of the hammer...but I think when I checked this before it didn't feel very conclusive as to whether he was present enough to unvote. Haschel...I'm super mad at you if you are town.

Off wagon of Dr. P, Agar, tn, noraa is a toss up too. TN maybe feels the most town of that group? I need to do some ISOing of people in that group today and better refine my sentiments.

You don't have to like my hammer but I stand by it. The only thing I regret was that he was town playing poorly and not scum.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Cool.

Vote: Ythan

[Haschel Cedricson]

"What can you say about one of the scummier players today?" - A Dumb Question

[Haschel Cedricson]

The idea that I'd crib from yesterday's quick hammering fool is kinda dumb yeah.

And yet for some reason you're choosing not to disabuse anybody of that notion.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Prod acknowledged, will post after work.

[Haschel Cedricson]

...seems to me like no one has a single satisfactory reason besides Ythan and kinda Agar.

What reasons are those?

[Haschel Cedricson]

All I see rn is a wagon on me that is based off of absolute garbage reasoning and evidence.

I thought Ythan and Agar had satisfactory reasons. Explain.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Tell me about those reasons!

Why are they good? Why are they wrong? How do you reconcile those?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Actually you know what, give me detailed reads on Ythan/Agar.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Agar had decent reasons. I didn't agree with them and replied to them in one of my posts but he at least seems like he put some thought and time in. I have a pretty null read here as well since he doesn't really talk much anyways.

I want to hear what you think those decent reasons are. I don't care if you've said them elsewhere, I want you to say them again.

[Haschel Cedricson]

haschel do you wanna stop vanity voting ythan

Not particularly right now.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I was gonna interrogate some people today but I'm not in the headspace for it. If it clears up by tonight I'll do it then otherwise I'll be here tomorrow.

Sorry.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Okay I have info that needs to be shared. Reck can't tell you what Ythan is but I can. I also can confirm that VP Baltar is town.

[Haschel Cedricson]

You were swapped with me by the bus driver. After Night 1 I got a message saying that I had received a mask that does nothing. I also was informed that VP Baltar was modconfirmed town.

There's more but I'll let that digest first.

[Haschel Cedricson]

The mask did not say who sent it.

I know I was bussed because my action, which was supposed to be performed on Reck, was performed on myself instead.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I don't recall saying I was a watcher.

This was all on Night 1.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Ok, so here's the deal. Reck is almost certainly lying. At first, I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because he said he blocked me...and I thought, "who knows, maybe."

But then he comes back with this story about how he didn't block me. Well, here is the big reveal:

I targeted Reck N1 and if I wasn't blocked he would know it. I am also 99% certain I didn't get bus driven or other shenanigans either.

Point of order. You targeted me by accident. I believe you did it last night on purpose.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Ok, so here's the deal. Reck is almost certainly lying. At first, I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because he said he blocked me...and I thought, "who knows, maybe."

But then he comes back with this story about how he didn't block me. Well, here is the big reveal:

I targeted Reck N1 and if I wasn't blocked he would know it. I am also 99% certain I didn't get bus driven or other shenanigans either.

Point of order. You targeted me by accident. I believe you did it last night on purpose.

wait what? You're saying I targeted you two nights?

I got a PM after N1 giving me mod confirmation that you were town, and then I got the exact same PM last night.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I got a PM after N1 giving me mod confirmation that you were town, and then I got the exact same PM last night.

Ok. What are your thoughts about reck here?

Oh, UT claiming to see Reck visit two targets is such a bizarre lie I believe it, and Reck's flailing reads less like trying to figure out what's going on and more like flailing to find any way out. I see no (feasible) scenario where we don't eliminate him today.

Give me a few hours and I'll dive in.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Alright, Noraa, thoughts on Brightskies's last few posts?

Question coming for Brightskies after Noraa answers.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Alright, Noraa, thoughts on Brightskies's last few posts?

Question coming for Brightskies after Noraa answers.

I never liked the SR from that slot on me. It felt pretty sheepy and like they just tried to re-word everyone else's responses to justify jumping on the biggest wagon. Then jumping onto the tn wagon which was getting attention pretty quickly was also very sheepy and not justified well or at all imo. Idk sheepy and flip floppy are generally pretty big scum tells but I understand that since bright is a newbie, a lot of stuff doesn't really apply too hot...

Okay cool. I didn't ask about your thoughts on Brightskies overall; I asked specifically about the last few posts. You avoided commenting on them. I don't blame you because they were bad posts and I wouldn't want to draw attention to my scumbuddy either.

ut I'm awake and bored now I wanna know your thoughts on my posts

I think you used a whole lot of words to avoid actually saying anything; 969 has a lot of calling people town but not a lot of looking for scum.

I agree with VP Baltar; what's the whole scumteam and why, Skies?

[Haschel Cedricson]

haschel do YOU believe im actually scum here?

It's the most likely scenario, yeah. It's possible you aren't, but it would require a whole bunch of things to line up just right and the whole "visiting two people" with no other explanation is pretty damn hard to not apply Occam's Razor to.

Dont assume things Haschel. I didn't read closely but my thoughts were that its quite a coincidence if they were seriously inactive when shit like this went down. The first sentence of the first catch up post reads a bit scummy and fake. The rest is meh. The whole situation was confusing so Skies explaining it strangely isn't crazy considering they are a newbie. I personally didn't really think they were rolefishing but idk.

Once again, a whole lot of noncommittal garbage. "Some of it was scummy, but all in all none of it is alignment indicative!" isn't helpful at all, especially under the circumstances.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Welp.

Vote Reck

[Haschel Cedricson]

And what was the rush yesterday Haschel? You hammer addicted?

I was fine letting the day go on as long as I thought we'd get useful info. As soon as Reck claimed scum that opportunity was lost as further discussion was far more likely to muddy the waters.

Anyway, Noraa, your first scumread was indeed scum! Who are his partner(s)?

[Haschel Cedricson]

As soon as Reck claimed scum that opportunity was lost as further discussion was far more likely to muddy the waters.

How was waiting for skies to comment going to muddy the waters? We were always going to yeet Reck.

The dynamic changes when scum throws in the towel, and not in a way I find useful.

[Haschel Cedricson]

This is a less than satisfactory answer.

Well, I don't know know what to tell you.

Noraa, in addition to my last question I also want to know why you think a post reading "yes?" in its entirety is in any way acceptable under the circumstances.

[Haschel Cedricson]

What did you think the tacit question was?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Vote: Noraa

.

No triple hammer, promise.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Huh.

I kind of want to claim now because I can't decide if my role makes duppin's claim to be more or less likely.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm Running-Through-the-Street Sunny, town voyeur.

On Night 1 I targeted Reck and learned that he (meaning me) was targeted by a Manipulative action (bus driver), two Miscellaneous Actions (Mask and Friendly Neighbor), and an Action Investigation (myself). On Night Two VP Baltar was hit by an Action Investigation (me). Last night UT was targeted by a Killing Action (scum) and an Action Investigation (me).

So besides the Watcher we have a whole bunch of roles that don't really do a ton but provide things for the Watcher/Motion Detector/Voyeur to notice.

[Haschel Cedricson]

46 seconds and wow that is a terrible doctor claim.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Hey, sorry; it's been a

time

lately.

Skies/Noraa scumteam? The doc claim doesn't fit with the game and their interactions with each other feel off.

[Haschel Cedricson]

skies has had a chance to defend himself already.

Themself.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Re: Input

I'm at work but I'll try and sum everything up during my lunchbreak.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Ohhhhhhhhh yeah that makes sense. I agree with that but still think we should wait for skies to say something, anything before we hammer.

I'm guessing this will only happen after a prod and it won't be a fruitful comment. Let's just end this so we can move forward with the game. I feel pretty confident in this flip at this point.

I swear I wasn't planning to hammer today.

Vote: Brightskies

[Haschel Cedricson]

Well this is not what I expected.

I'm willing to claim night results first if you want me to but I'm not sure it matters. Leaning Duppin/Gamma as the only scumteam that makes any sense since Skies being town means all the ties I saw to Noraa weren't actually there at all.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Listen, if you're town today, put in work. There's no more room for lack of contribution, and I will be voting out lurkers.

That's fair.

Anyway since you are the only 100% confirmed town person here (Ythan is like 97%) I'll defer to you on if Duppin or I goes first.

[Haschel Cedricson]

actually theres no real reason for me not to claim my result first since noraa already seems to have claimed VP visited her

For clarification, your claim is that you targeted Noraa?

[Haschel Cedricson]

I also targeted Noraa. She was targeted last night by one Miscellaneous Action and one Action Investigation (me).

That means either we are both telling the truth and you were the Miscellaneous Action, VP targeted Noraa and you are lying, or Ythan targeted Noraa and you are lying.

Based on what Noraa said I'm going with the middle option. Ythan, can you confirm that you did not send a mask to Noraa?

[Haschel Cedricson]

The sensible MD action last night was to check a VT.

Can you explain this?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel, who is the scum pair in your mind.

Duppin/Gamma is most likely with Duppin/Noraa being less likely but still possible.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Motion Detector is a new role for me; it shows both comings AND goings but doesn't say which is which? Is that correct?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Positive, I've gotten that mod-confirmed while I was trying to figure out the busdriving on Reck.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel, what were your N1 results exactly?

I was told that "my target" was visited by two Miscellaneous actions, one Manipulative action, and one Action Investigative action. In separate PMs I was told I got a mask that did nothing and that you were mod-confirmed town.

When you and Ythan started acting aggressive towards Reck for lying about being targeted I asked the mod if my own voyeurism showed up and the report and got an affirmative.

[Haschel Cedricson]

by the way one thing id like to mention is that haschel is directly counterclaiming my night action. The only reason i mention this is because for that to make sense it would mean that i either lied about my target or i dont have a night action and just randomly guessed that gamma did nothing and that no one visited him two nights in a row.

Option 3: You have a different night action and lied about Gamma doing things. Most people with roles had already claimed their actions by the time you first claimed to have targeted Gamma, if I'm reading things correctly.

[Haschel Cedricson]

for day 3 i think the only n2 actions claimed before i opened up to claim were UT and reck

Ythan admitted the person he gave a mask to died in post 796, a whole 300 posts before you said you targeted Gamma. I also mentioned that VP Baltar had targeted me Night 2 in post 834. You don't mention targeting Gamma until post 1106.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Cooking dinner right now but after I come back I want to look at the Reck/Dr Pepper interactions a bit more.

[Haschel Cedricson]

At work right now.

As you suggested there wasn't much there re: Dr. Pepper, although I am a little curious about Reck proposing a Flash wagon that suddenly turned into votes; once the wagon starts he doesn't really push on it more until after it's started to slow down. I do think his vote on Noraa at the start of Day 3 is townpoints for her; it doesn't feel like a bus.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Worth remembering that Haschel's results really did almost save Reck.

Not really, it was UT seeing him visit two places that did Reck in and I said nothing to wave that away. My results were just saying what literally happened, unless you have another explanation for how I got targeted by you and Ythan.

Noraa is looking good. Meanwhile I don't like the way Gamma is interacting with Duppin and I; he seems *way* too confident and trusting in Duppin.

From my perspective the scumteam is 95% Duppin/Gamma and will certainly hammer either one of them if the opportunity arises. I don't care for the theorycrafting about why there was no kill last night although ironically I'm starting to draw my own conclusion.

[Haschel Cedricson]

N3- Saying you targeted UT on the night of the kill is exceptionally safe from a scum perspective....and it actually doesn't even make that much sense from a town perspective? What could be learned by voyeuring the guy who was very likely to die?

Because if he didn't die and there wasn't another kill I would know if it was because of a protective role or if we were looking at a no-kill gambit or blocker scenario. And considering where the claims were at the point I wasn't entirely sure it mattered who I targeted.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Gamma could have been some type of soft PR that moves, or he could have been visited one of those nights by Ythan or me. This doesn't exclude a duppin-gamma scum team.

He couldn't have been visited by Ythan or you, as I had already said that you targeted me and Ythan had already claimed to have targeted Agar.

Using haschel for the kills actually does make sense after he performed that hammer D1, especially if he is a goon.

Aside from the fact that UT saw Reck commit the first kill, and the fact that I'm not a good, I was under a lot of scrutiny on both hammers and was a likely investigation target so I'm not sure I follow.

[Haschel Cedricson]

*not a goon

[Haschel Cedricson]

Hm.
Haschel, why did you target Noraa of all players N4?

My thoughts on Noraa being scum were strongly linked to the idea of a Noraa/Skies partnership. When they flipped town I had to reevaluate and didn't have any better ideas with who to voyeur.

[Haschel Cedricson]

UT caught Reck N2 actually. That would make you the most compromised (hypothetical) scum N3 to kill UT. If I had just lost my roleblocker, I probably wouldn't want to risk increasing the bleeding by my third buddy potentially getting caught.

Right, got the nights wrong. At any rate that's a bit of a WIFOM argument that I don't buy in to.

I had not claimed my N3 action at that point I believe. So I think that's incorrect.

Where did you actually claim N3? The was an implied claim before Duppin claimed but I guess it can be read as unidirectional.

At any rate, I'm going to

Vote: Gamma

even though Duppin is more of a lock. Then tomorrow I'll accurately know how many people visited a person I guess and we can get Duppin.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel, it's kind of weird you don't want to yeet the confirmed scum from your perspective.

I do; I just acknowledge that it's a coinflip for the rest of you. From my perspective Duppin is 100% scum and Gamma is probably 85%, but from everyone else's then Duppin is 50%, I am 50%, and Gamma is still 85%.

Incidentally Duppin trying to shift things onto Noraa using a single game's meta is scummy as fuck. Not only is any cherrypicked meta argument worthless to other players, but using a small sample size is disingenuous.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel last day you called Noraa scum, your behaviour today seems to suggest you have changed your mind, so could you explain your read progression?

Yesterday it looked obvious that Noraa was partners with Brightskies. This was provably false so I reevaluated, and her play today has been town.

[Haschel Cedricson]

The Noraa/Brightskies interactions looked bad for a day and a half; I thought each was going out of their way to look like they were commenting on the other without saying anything of substance. I specifically called them out as a scumteam multiple times.

Then Skies died and they were telling the truth about their doctor claim after all. The whole point of this game is reevaluating after getting new information so I'm not sure where you are going with this.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Nobody is limming me today. We absolutely have to vote correctly or its over. Get rid of Gamma and tomorrow we'll have another night of results to prove my claim.

I was asked earlier about my townread on Noraa today. It's based on a few things, but the most important is that her posting feels like it is intended to uncover information and figure out the game whereas Duppin and Gamma don't come off that way. Furthermore, I know that Duppin is lying and a Duppin/Noraa team feels impossible; Duppin/Noraa would have had Noraa start to push me harder here and go for getting VP or Ythan to mislim me to win the game.

EDIT: Welp. GG Duppin/Gamma.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Fantastic work, team.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I thought Reck killing was safe because I knew three town powerroles targeted him N1. Surely statistically there 1) wouldn't be many more town powerroles, and 2) they wouldn't target Reck, right?