Musician Mafia: Guitarists GAME OVER

[Grendel]

Gamma hath summoned me! lol

Anybody have tips on things I should pay close attention to as i read the thread?

Or a time line of things I should look jump to first?

[Grendel]

Hi, yeah, maybe wait for the moderator to update the thread?

Real fuckin weird that you're posting beforehand bud.

mmm apologies. In the past here I've seen others just jump right into a game once they get mod approval before the mod changes the OP.

Hopefully I didnt break any rules. :/

For the game state. What do you feel about NPOM, DGB, TPhaine, and Lav?

I'll look into them.

-/-/-/-

This is awkward but mod hasn't given me my role pm yet. I thought when he approved the sub in that I'd get the pm shortly after haha... I guess he got tied up.

Ill go ahead and start catching up. I'll respect the game and not post again until I get the pm.

[Grendel]

Points on Starwars girl was v obtuse, wont assume shes town rn. I've noticed in passing that a few players keep putting off reading her, and IKS didnt really stick with the push. Which could be a red flag. Idk if i have anyhting to say about TiDeath naked vote.

I believe, that there is at least one scum in {Looker, DrippingGoofball, pisskop, pookythemagicbear, WaltertheDance, Bambi Jay}
Slots from that set with 0 content: {Looker, Bambi Jay}
Since I have already played a game with town lurking Looker, I will VOTE: B. Jay

I would be surprized if he didnt slip a scum in here.

With Looker flipping town, I know my pressessor Walt is town, and pisskop looking is town to me, I should look at the others when i finish this.

Curious why TiDeath wasn't include here.

-/-/-/-/-

Claim up or ill vote you.

VOTE: pisskop

That confirms my read on NPOM.
VOTE: piss

Very interesting interaction.

I dont think that IKS reactively votes a buddy for pressing them for a claim. I dont think mafia buddies vote together in such a small window of time. I dont think that Pressing players for a claim is scummy in general.

Pisskop, and NopowerOverMe are probably town.

-/-/-/-/-

DocDrew could you do me a favor and tell me what caused you to move off IKS between vote count 1.03, and 1.04?

--/-/-/-

Spoiler:

Vote Count 1.11

The “Ive been drinking and I’m in bed on my phone but feel bad if I don’t give y’all a VC but I’m not gonna find a guitar meme because they are actually few and far between so here’s a so here’s a doggo” edition.

NoPowerOverMe (8): Iecerint, Lavender, Starbuck, WaltertheDunce10, Galron, DrippingGoofball, chkflip, Doctor Drew
I Keep Siteflaking (8): BrightEyedFish, TiphaineDeath, Bambi Jay, Titus, Looker, pisskop, davesaz, NoPowerOverMe
pisskop (3): I Keep Siteflaking, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (2): a2rudeboy, Almost50

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 votes to shred someone.
Day One ends on Monday, September 28th 2020 at 10:00 am EST in (expired on 2020-09-28 10:00:00)

Assuming my earlier assumption that NoPower is town was correct then this is a very interesting split. Mafia were in a position they could potentially move things onto town but it didnt happen.

With ISK posting style i wouldnt be surprised if there were mutiple scum that felt they were better off bussing for town cred then working to preserve the slot.

Obvously I dont have all the context yet. Has anybody else thought this yet?

[Grendel]

In very far into Tideath's ISO, but is a highly antagonistic tone common for Tideath to those who have played with him?

I've noticed some older MS players like to act rough and uncaring in thread as scum. Depending on the roster composition it can keep a player afloat. Since scum here are generally expected to act playful, and appeasing in thread.

[Grendel]

not very far in his ISO^

-/-/-/-/

For the game state. What do you feel about NPOM, DGB, TPhaine, and Lav?

What are your thoughts on them btw?

Or point me to a case if you already have one.

[Grendel]

I mean, I'm cool with lynching NPOM, pretty in favor even, but @DGB I would also point out that Princess Leia should be looked at as a raving lunatic, not as town or scum. I don't think anything they have done is alignment indicative.

Ahh, yeah, Tipanine was putting off reading Princess Leia.

But, also, Leia looks like she is going for an old-school scum-strat of mine where you intentionally play so chaotically that no one can get a scumread on you and you coast to endgame, shape up at the last minute, and win. Other than wanting to throw her out a window, I am also scumreading this at this point.

but wait! I must issues a correction. He did go on to SR Leia. Is this relevant?... possibly

Aaaand 16 pages to remind me why I don't play this game anymore. I forget exactly how deep the stupid can run. Well done ya'll <3.

THese are the kinda posts that rub me the wrong way. Blaming the town for playing badly when he himself isn't like... idk some townie messiah leading town outta the dark. He's just adding to the bad vibes, and he gets a pass for it becuase ppl assume scum dont do this stuff. :/

If its impacting him as negatively as he implies then way is he even playing? He could just sub out if its that bad.

I really wanted a votecount to make sure I didn't miss anyone before they all unvoted, (and also cause I am lazy,) but here goes.

Wagon on me I believe, in order, was BeF(Who I think was RvS, but I'm not sure?), pooky, leia, gamma, dunce, siteflake, Npom

Bef: Rvs, null?

Pooky: I REALLY dislike the interactions I have had with this bear, but that said I really do not think it is scum. The going back and pulling up an old game that went badly to troll me pissed me off, as well as many other things it did, but going looking right there, in that moment at the beginning of a wagon, isn't a scum thing to do unless they are hard-committing to a push, and the bear was CLEARLY not hard-committed. I actually slightly, unhappily, town read this at this point.

Leia: Their trolling finally reached what I considered actively scum spreading chaos territory when they started poking at titius and threw mud in my direction as well with post#358. Feels scummy bro.
Gamma

Gamma: The pooky gamma interaction during the wagon tells me they are definitely NOT both scum together, and I think it's most likely they are both town. If one of them is scum it's more likely to be gamma.

Dunce: Looked like they had reasonable theories for both getting on and off the wagon. Could be made up, but doesn't really ping as such right now. Null for now, will re-read later.

Siteflake: Naked vote on as it was building, naked vote off as it dropped, naked vote on Npom now. Haaaaate this, like, really, really hate it, but could also just be a playstyle thing. 425 and 427 look like looking for a reason to get off the wagon though, not to just sit there and let it build so it kills me, like silent scum-man would do. Mostly null, but sliiiiight town read here.

NPom, continues to be scummy AF, and I aleady had a slight scumread on him before this nonsense. (Though I may be confbiasing here so this is almost a point in his favor, *grumblemumble fallible human psyche mumble grumble*) His interaction with the bear post wagon also feels really off to me though. But then LEIA votes him, which is actually GREAT because even with the way that crazy-person is playing they are just not scum together here, so I get early connection reads and I love those.

Given this I would REALLY like to lynch either Leia or Npom today, but that was already true. Rest of the reads definitely worthwhile anyways though.

Dont know about all these well nuanced reasons for forming town reads on the folks on his self wagon. Town tends to be less composed over this kinda pressure when forming reads. (tho it could just be that TIdeath is a better player then me ) NoPower isnt a player i find scummy, I dont have an opinion on Leia yet (may need to bump her up next on my read instead of TDG). Those are the only two players the he seeemed to get scummy vibes off the wagon.

Ok, like, Flake has def not been super-towny this game, but maaaan am I not loving how quickly all these wagons keep forming.

Looks like a soft defense. Tideath doesn't wanna hard commit to a read one way or the other.

Bef, how is Npom town? I do not understand this one.

I'll be honest, a lot of my read on No power is due to a single interaction between him Pisskop, and Site flaker.

@Tideath, Can you talk me though your No POwer SR more thoroughly please?

-/-/-/-/-/-

EoD1 and theres more pointing towards TiDeath being scum then there is him being town. I also dont think there were any interactions there that point agianst him being with SIter Flake. Like even his final vote could easily be bussing out of a feeling that SiteFlake was unsalvageable this game.

[Grendel]

TDeath is pretty abrasive from my experience with him.

Mmm... noted.

WHat are your reads this game?

[Grendel]

For the record, rude only votes lurkers and policy and never scumhunts a majority of the active players.

Eww

An i was almost won over by his trustworthy looking Frog Avie too!

What else can you tell me about rude. By which i mean if you have a comfortable read on him.

[Grendel]

unvote

WELCOME TO THE GAME DUDE

Hello!

-/-/-/-

What are you up too now that you unvoted me?

How about some cool-rad current thoughts on Tideath?

[Grendel]

I'm townreading him due to his activity and his willingness to hold a position even if it's the wrong position. Also we have a high probability of sharing the same role. You have to take what he says with a grain of salt sometimes tho.

Thats weird. You both claimed already?

I usally play in weird mech games on my homesite haha. But i feel like im still gonna be asking lots of dumb questions. Tho i am out of practice.

-/-/-/-/-/-

Does anybody here know how to read TDG?

I've heard she's super hard to reliably pin down. Im reading her iso, but im not v far in.

[Grendel]

*@Gamma, did you invite me to sub in b/c you already thought my predessessor was townie?*

And what did you think about my point w/ regards Pisskop and No power being town?

[Grendel]

Im confused... Im I in trouble for subbing into the game? :/

I missed a lot of this convo

[Grendel]

Well if the mod feel fit to kick me then i guess thats how is has to be, but i personally dont feel I did anything wrong.

I'm gonna head to bed.

[Grendel]

@TipainDeath THanks for giving me your the iso analisis of NO Power, I'll cross reference it when i read No power's iso to see if i agree with your reasonsing.

Why is TDG hard town for you?

[Grendel]

In very far into Tideath's ISO, but is a highly antagonistic tone common for Tideath to those who have played with him?

He's a bit emotionally sensitive in general, but it's outside his typical range this game.

When you say range you mean like out of his scum range?

or you mean just general behavior?

-/-/-/-/-

Not sure how i feel about Gamma leaning in on his town read of me as a justification. Feels kinda white knighty

Otherwise Gamma looks ok I guess. (I've had a terribad record on reading Gamma in the past, so im disinclined to move him out of null)

-/-/-/-/-

I dont really have anyhting to say about NO power, or Bright eye, questioning my/gamma's integrity beyond that it was not an enjoyable thing to be put through. I dont think their necessary scummy for it tho. Some people are just wary of that kinda thing happening in a way that transcends personal alignment.

[Grendel]

Not sure how i feel about Gamma leaning in on his town read of me as a justification*. Feels kinda white knighty

Otherwise Gamma looks ok I guess. (I've had a terribad record on reading Gamma in the past, so im disinclined to move him out of null)

*as a justification for pushing other slots

whoops

[Grendel]

Im going to skip TDG's ISO and jump right to her claim, and the context around it. Since that seems to be the most Ai thing she's done? (Correct me if im wrong)

Then I'll read Leia/Dave, and then No power if i have time left over.

[Grendel]

Goofball seems to vote without a clear thought process. Also lack of quotes makes it hard to tell. Interesting to note while voting for Walter thae reply to someone was vote for iks. The claim stall is a bit weird. Other than that believes npom is scum. Considers to vote iks for that post on refusing to vote for npom. Neutral feeling
I am curious goofball if you believed both were scum why did you believe people who voted for other than npom deserve to be vigged?
pedit Do you mind pointing to where chkflip says that?

I got excited because NPOM was claim stalling. Everyone knows how I feel about that; claim stalls are 100% scum all the time, no exception.

At the same time, I good good feels from IKS because he claimed quickly, and his role description has some parallels with mine.

But then someone pointed out that the Developper bit was not very guitaristy, and I started to think IKS had outed the scum flavor, but I couldn't be sure.

Though I do want to hear what these parallels are since he flipped scum

He said his abilities change over time, and mine change on a probalistic basis.

these are interesting tangents but not really claims.

VOTE: DGB

OK let's do me

You guys already know I am a power role, which I laid out explicitly, not "breadcrumbed

NO RESULTS FOR YOU

You guys blow chunks

I'm gonna head to the dead thread with my buddy @kuribo and root for the scum

DGB is self-consciously paraphrasing the quote in her signature.

I don't have to claim at E-3 when I'm self-voting, SCUM

this is like such an over reaction to mid-day pressure? Was thread intentionally gearing up for a mid-day flip?

It dosnt look like it, (Beyond the folks wanting to flip my pressessessor)

I guess I could see it as guinue emotion on TDG's end, but idk why she didn't claim if she was "over" the game. If its a confirmable town PR she could just go head and claim it and eat a NK instead of eating rope. Letting herself get flipped is essensally doing scums work for them.

I guess TDG is ethier lying about being town, or ended up with a PR that is somehow not confirmable. (Or she is intentionally playing irrationally to spite the thread.) ughhhh these "what ifs".

@Goofball can you tell me more about your head space when you self voted? It at least seems you are on to bigger and better things with the Lavender vote, tell me more about lavender?

[Grendel]

NPOM- Explain to me how having a lurker remain in the game is beneficial to town. Maybe a town PR would lurk for a while to try and avoid the NK. But other than that, I can't really see much benefit.

So is this an agenda you take with you every game or...?

[Grendel]

Im confused... Im I in trouble for subbing into the game? :/

I missed a lot of this convo

You would be forgiven (and even commended) if you pushed a random wagon to it's fruition and it flipped red. (Just sayin')

God I hope that happens haha

Tell me more about your TDG read.

-/-/-/--

pre-edit

were you already TRing my slot before sub in?

[Grendel]

The most AI thing I've done is claim VT? PFahahahahah, oh god, what is this nonsense?

I was talking about TheDrippingGoofball not you.

Can you tell me why you town read TDG currently?

[Grendel]

Reading through Leia Im honestly having a hard time distinishing her real pushes from her jokes.

At lot of times she posts reasons for scum reading other players are really shallow thought processes.

So i have a scum lean going into Daves posts

-/-/-/-/-

pre-edit

Yes I meant DGB. THank you for the links there.

Sorry, I missread your "Im not unvoting" joke post as, "Im not Voting", and thought it was a bombastic defense of my slot or something lol. that makes more sense now.

[Grendel]

I don't read DGB as scum. Less so certain about TD.

Let's lynch the lav.

Reading though Lav... Im fine compromise voting Lavender. Nothing standing out as town looking there, and most serous content seemed produced v reluctantly over the course of the game. In a way im surprised the extent at which they been flying under the radar.

[Grendel]

I still don’t believe NPOM is town but take my words with a grain of salt for I haven’t really been right on things
I’m wondering if there’d really be two of the same role for town after all.
Though it is Baker...I feel like it would be used as a non-town role though

If I read correctly DGB is claiming some parallels for IKS’s role which made me think their claim was likely since both roles are opposite and that’s happened before
However then I remembered scum could just fake it, so, uh, flavor? Asking for some flavor wasn’t illegal right..?
I don’t think so...

Uhm let’s see, with the Faith of all humanity I pray that I stay awake long enough to respond to people who are online

Spoiler: I Hope Stupid isn’t Contagious

Hahhh I’m sorry for my horrid playing
I’m just pretty busy, I shouldn’t have joined with my schedule ahahaha...
I truly truly post always after I read (even if it’s just some pain-garbled nonsense)

I feel like I should just replace out but then I’d just give Baker more trouble as well as town

I myself can’t keep my thoughts organized
Ahhh I wanna curse, how do you guys do it
I debated deleting this afterwords kinda thing but decided this one wanted to vent my stupidity just a little

If the AtE is legit then im sorry you're having a hard time this game.

Probably best thing you can do is split up the roster into ppl your most interested in looking through, and then read through thier posts and see what catches your eye.

Probably focus in on some players you havent really talked about much. So not like NO power you is your strongest SR. Instead look at the players you want/need to sort.

[Grendel]

@Gamma: Read my 3412 for starters. I don't believe DGB -of all players- misses the simple fact that the theme/flavour of this game is

guitarists

(and not drummers.. etc). yet she claims to have been using "flavour" to solve the game. Add her -inexplicable to me- pushes on NPOM and TD (and most recently her flip of a read on TP calling them town when she had been pushing for a hammer on them because "they feel like scum giving up"..). I mean this is most certainly the DGB I'm used to. This isn't the same DGB that played in the previous game either. Town!DGB is much more hyper, opinionated, intuitive, and stubborn, but -most of all- does NOT miss the initial info the mod had revealed well before the game ever started: We are all GUITARISTS!

Isnt rolling scum DGB's pref? Typically scum favored players try harder as scum then town. (Granted i may be missremembering her, I've never played her, but i read several games of hers back when i first joined MS out of curiosity)

I think that the main problem with your flavor argument is that if she were scum she'd assumedly be talking to other scum about roles, flavor, etc. I feel like she would've recognized that there only guitarist in scum, and given the title of the tread I'd see no reason why SCum!DGB suggests non-guitarist as scum. I dont really think attempting to look like dumbtelling townie makes sense b/c she's a competent enough player that nobody would beileve her for it.

Im trying to think of a good illistration to convey what i mean but my mind is muddled lol

[Grendel]

i think im leaning DBG town rn. But there is more to discuss

I still have a problem with that self vote, and antagonist outburst when getting vote pressured. I dont see why town giving up has qualms about role claiming beyond being a jerk for no reason.

Otherwise she seems town even if i dont understand some of her thought processes. Like that Tideath Town read.

Wish i could get more elaboration on Icerint. I'd like to know if there is more there then her cross SR-ing becuase of his meta usage, if there was i missed it in her iso

-/-/-/-

pre-edit

yeah, that self vote is still standing out to me as poor

[Grendel]

It'd help a lot if somebody could confirm/deny what her alignment preference is.

The most AI thing I've done is claim VT? PFahahahahah, oh god, what is this nonsense?

I was talking about TheDrippingGoofball not you.

Can you tell me why you town read TDG currently?

There in no The in DrippingGoofball’s username

I swear thought she had a "The" in front of her name all these years! Good lord lol.

-/-/-/-

I started a post on Dave, but I think i closed it out by accident. smh

[Grendel]

^her being DGB in the above post

[Grendel]

Happy to be kinda in NPOM's town list.
Not so happy it's my predecessor who's on the list.

nearly 200 posts from sub in and NPOM is still refering to Dave as Laia in NOPM's reads. This def points agianst them being scum togather.

Yes I do think that's easy to fake as scum, No I don't think scum actually think to do it. At least its rare they do.

-/-/-/-

He interogrates Titus quite a bit, and goes back and forth trying to sort her. This is more a personal tell of mine, But I generally don't think scum bother expending energy fake sorting a player that they are planning to kill off later.

So this is a point to town Dave since for him to be scum i feel like the rest of his team really needed Titus out of here for some reason.

-/-/-/-/-

Dave really uses meta alot... i dont really like taking players words on stuff, but i also dont have time to cross refence everyhting.

-/-/-/-

Clarify how? Seems pretty clear to me.

If you think DGB is mafia directing the factional kill you should be voting her.
If you think DGB is town but mafia chose to kill in her list then there should be some followup from you.
I'm reading all the one sentence posts as evasive. Soon I won't care if someone "advises not shredding you" based on mysterious setup junk.

Dave dosnt seem to have many strong opinions on the players that I've familiarized myself with thus far this game. Which means I'll have to come back to Dave when i read players LIke ChlFlip.

I like the line of thought dave is pushing as an "Aha" moment town might have.

-/-/-/-/-

I can't remember how to hyper link diretly to a post -.- its his big VC on post 1915

im perplexed by him wanting a NOPM flip around this point in time, but being interested in wagonmics that should, imo, point that NOPM is town.

-/-//-/--

Its getting late on my end, I'll have to finish the 2nd half of Dave's ISO tomorrow. He's definitely more town looking then Star wars girl, but he is also a mixed bag. Hopefully I'll have a conciser read tomarrow.

[Grendel]

Hi Dave!

Doing the VCA you didnt think NPOM looked like town counter to Flaker? Why not?

[Grendel]

^ town counter wagon

whoops lol

[Grendel]

In very far into Tideath's ISO, but is a highly antagonistic tone common for Tideath to those who have played with him?

He's a bit emotionally sensitive in general, but it's outside his typical range this game.

When you say range you mean like out of his scum range?

or you mean just general behavior?

Answer this please Icecerint.

[Grendel]

Goof, please case Iecerint.

seconded

[Grendel]

7. TripaineDeath is either what he says he is or he's scum. Does it matter at this point? We should just shred there today and move on. We've got 4 days. We're not coming to a consensus scum. We need to get info. Half of you will say information lynches are scummy but we've got to break the state we're in.

IM in agreement that the game state has got cuaght in an awkward stagnate phase. Im a little relived that one other person feels this way haha.

I wanted to access the majority of the roster in satisfactory detail, but im at a point where i just don't think that's going to happen with the amount of time left. Instead I think its time to start rallying for the flip.

I'd love to get to a point that 2~3 players are put in claiming territory before we hit the final 48 hour marker. Im trying to think of a way to narrow the pool rn.

[Grendel]

I think the easiest solution is if in everybody's next post we out a pool of up to three players we are willing to flip, and then place a vote on one of them.

After a certain point i think town's EoD options should become more straight forward, and we can make a more educated choice with fewer players vs a rushed decision with too many players on the choppping block.

@WHATS ALL YOUR THOUGHTS

[Grendel]

Mine is [Tideath, Lavender]

-/-/-/-/-

DGB is a potential 3rd as the town vibes I had are dissipating. I want to look at a few other things first before I say yay, or nay, there.

-/-/-/-/-

VOTE: Lavender

[Grendel]

Dave looks ok. He's not hard town, but i dont really see any clear scum motivation there.

Im aware that BEF cased him to be scum, but im not entirely sure what i think of BEF yet lol.

Who else had strong opinions on Dave?

[Grendel]

hmmm... Is Iecerint normally a player that is cagey with his reads as scum?

Or is this more of a general tell for you?

[Grendel]

B/c i def played with lots of townies that keep thier reads close to thier chests before. Its not necessarily scummy.

[Grendel]

THere are multiple ppl who unvoted me since this VC and have yet to revote, if you guys are reading this please place a vote asap! The longer the wait the less time we have to make claims and decide final chop.

Vote Count 3.06

@Doctor Drew

Grendel (6): Bambi Jay, PookyTheMagicalBear, davesaz, TiphaineDeath, chkflip, NoPowerOverMe
DrippingGoofball (4): Iecerint, BrightEyedFish, Almost50, DrippingGoofball
TiphaineDeath (3): Galron, Starbuck, pisskop
Lavender (1): a2rudeboy

Not Voting (4): Lavender, Grendel, Gamma Emerald, Doctor Drew

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 votes to shred someone.
Heyyyyy we got someone! Grendel replaces in for Assemble
Day Three ends on Wednesday October 28th at 12:00pm EST in (expired on 2020-10-28 12:00:00)

[Grendel]

B/c i def played with lots of townies that keep thier reads close to thier chests before. Its not necessarily scummy.

So, you're disputing my case on your buddy before I even lay it down. Gotcha.

I didnt know you had more to say.

Tell me more, I promise to wait until you're finished before I say anyhting one way or the other

[Grendel]

Reads in each category are in no particular order.

Town

pisskop
NoPowerOverMe
Galron

Town lean

davesaz
Gamma Emerald
a2rudeboy

Have looked into some but still unsure

chkflip
Iecerint
DrippingGoofball

Null: Havent looked into

Doctor Drew
Starbuck
Almost50
PookyTheMagicalBear
Bambi Jay
BrightEyedFish

Scum

TiphaineDeath
Lavender

-/-/-/-

Im unhappy at what a WIP this list is, but its where im at rn. I can elaborate on some of these when i come back tomarrow evening.

[Grendel]

List: Lav, NPOM, Iec

thanks for partipating in my idea of optimal play here.

It was kinda stupid of me to try and step up in some kinda leader position in a roster full of overly independent vets. Most likely my motion is going to be ignored here on out. x.x

-/-/-/-/-/-

Thanks for your casing on Icendant so far DGB, Ill read over it agian tomorrow with a pair of fresh eyes.

[Grendel]

Im surprised by the speed of the consolidation onto Icerint. I liked DGB case on Icenrint last night. I have no qualms with a chop there.

I would like a claim from Icerint before the 48 hour marker.

Im liking Lavender for the counter wagon, so ill keep my vote there.

[Grendel]

Porky is sitting cozy in a corner somewhere eating popcorn.

"What about me?"

I know someone's gonna laugh.

I wonder if DBG even knows what you're referencing

[Grendel]

Dont like how Almost 50 keeps jokely defending me. Feels like fake fluff prod-dodges.

[Grendel]

Ahahahah, oh god, do you see that readslist by Grendel? Can you be more "I want to be able to be on any wagon today and not look bad for it"? Is it possible?

Me, Lav(As a scum read, not just a lurker read, cool story bro), Icerint, and DGB, all as viable votes?

Holy crap, forget the rest of this. That fencepost was lodged so firmly between your buttcheeks I HAVE to vote you for it. VOTE: grendel. Sorry gamma, this ones scum.

Such a bad faith takeaway from my posts yesterday. :/

Im thinking though the game in a way thats comfortable for me. I was open to [you, Lavender] with a maybe on DGB that i ended up not agreeing with by the end of the night. I feel like the overarching player interactions this game are nebulas, and I have been a lot less quick to make hard reads then normal. Tho even at my base line of play im still a cautious of player in a lot of situations.

-/-/-/-

It really looks like Tideath hasn't put any thought into his read on me beyond taking retaliatory action for my scum read on him.

[Grendel]

They both seem like LHF

Want to vote Tideath with me then if you dont like Lavender?

VOTE: Tideath

[Grendel]

If Iecerint flips scum, I'd take a good hard look at both Grendel and davesaz, They are trying to undermine my case... without looking like they are undermining it. Throwing little pebbles from the sidelines and ducking, figuratively.

I made a single post where I where I was incredulous at your opening point. At the time you made no notion of having more to say.

The only other posts I made about was one agreeing to give you space to talk, and one saying I'd read it on catch-up today.

[Grendel]

I know it looks like I am not prioritizing this game (which is probably true) but I will be catching up soon.

It's just that this game is moving too slow for my liking that it feels a bit boring for me to read and have nothing to say (and you sure can deduce what the point is without me outright saying it. Right?)

Yeah it's felt quiet to the point on some level I've been forgetting it was a game I was playing that was in day phase at several times.

its unforenate that multiple people are feeling this way. I wonder if there is an approach the next day phase that could keep more players dialed in?

I don't really feel like i have an answer, MS game state plays out so different compared to HS due to super long days, and larger player variety, Im not really intune with how to work with players here in most cases.

[Grendel]

Im not sure about the conclusion of Dave scum as his defensive reaction isn't inherently scummy to me? Its pretty scummy if Icerint flips scum tho.

I dont buy the scum slip as a thing here.

-/-/-/-/-

Ierint, I know you are busy, but could you do me a favor and answer if you meant Tideath is out of his wolf range? or if you meant out of the range of general behavior?

In very far into Tideath's ISO, but is a highly antagonistic tone common for Tideath to those who have played with him?

He's a bit emotionally sensitive in general, but it's outside his typical range this game.

You keep missin the request.

-/-/-/-/-/-

Pre-edit

Its claim time!

[Grendel]

Icerint if you have a confirmable town role you should really go ahead and claim. Otherwise you're causing an unnecessary waiting game that will make EoD less effective in catching scum. Town needs enough time to access the claim, and time to consider if pivoting is needed.

Even if its not a non-confirmable town aligned role this is still not a good situation to sit on it.

-/-/--

Hi Chk, I know you're going to say something snappy about how bad it is to push for a claim w/o intent. I think that notion is just not really correct when we're reaching EoD and like the past few pages have done very little in the way of new and meaningful content. It just looks like most players are waiting around for EoD to happen to them. Whats to point of dragging events out like this? There is no point imo. :/

Even you yourself said you aren't going to be engaged again until D4 comes.

[Grendel]

A50 you're not voting. Be a pal. We need Iecerint's fake claim. We are running out of time.

Do you want my

HONEST

opinion? We are ALL scum in this game (and that includes me). Some of us aren't reading anymore *raises hand* and some are hopping on each and every wagon that remotely looks like taking off, making it damn too hard to draw any associative tells either way. Regardless of who gets shredded; I feel like anyone ON the wagon could be scum (bussing or pushing a miselim, depending on the flip), and anyone OFF it could still be scum (avoiding a p's wagon or distancing from a miselim). It is sad that that's how it feels on D3, but seriously.. I fon't know why wagons form or dissipate in this game anymore, and everyone's shouting a different set of names to be shredded.

I think that this can be savlagable working backwards with TRs. Figure out who your trusts are and bloc with them.

anycase I can say im pretty disappointed reading through your iso. I recall you being a much more apt player back in 2016. You dont seem like you've been trying v hard despite the sheer volume of your posts this game. Perhaps I confused you with another player? idk

[Grendel]

Letting rude get his way is a bad idea. Policy lynching is a bad idea.. lynching dgb or TD or Drew is a better idea.

I've been thinking. It doesn't really make since for TD, and DGB, to be scum togather.

Thier hard mutual town read is a really brazen play for scum to make in the situation they were in.

[Grendel]

Just a friendly reminder Lav has less posts than the D1 shred, N1 kill and D2 shred. And we are near deadline on D3

I'm happy to support a Lavender flip if you get the support.

What did you say your Tipaindeath read was agian?

[Grendel]

Lavender and ice

Can you remind me why you think Ice is low hanging fruit?

-/-/-/-/-

are we really flipping people for lurking now

you see town motivations in lavender? Where

[Grendel]

Sure, I think that the extent of pressure required to get anything useful out of her content wise is pretty scummy. As well as the lack of interest in her wagon is odd despite there being several people that had her in thier PoE most the game. I looked through the VCs to confirm this and the largest wagon on Lavender was D2 with 5 voters mid day, outside of that she would have 1 or 2 votes at a time, or no votes whatsoever.

THere may have been a another wagon that was off the VCs with more then a couple voters but i dont recall where that was.

The slanking itself is not super AI, I care less about that. It more how she interacts with the thread itself looks scummy, and how she mostly flies under the radar.

pre-edit

Shes really like this every game? :/

[Grendel]

How many ppl on this roster have other game exp with Lavender?

If there were more then a few then it could explain why she never seems to be a big target for anybody this game.

[Grendel]

Having to keep starting and stopping catch up. irl is a problem rn.

Ill gonna try and get back here before EoD in however many hours there is left.

[Grendel]

Im in the middle of something rn, but ill be back tonight!

Catch up post then, and im happy to say that I have many more condefant reads now compared to yesterday.

[Grendel]

SOme of these are probably going to be straight forward, possibly already addressed in thread. But ill say them anyway incase ppl want to know why i think things i think.

Iecerint tunneled on NPOM and then tunneled on me, so I would take his accusations with a scummy grain of salt.

Everyone will forget about this tomorrow as they walk away from my shredded remains, but iecerint, chkflip, Pooky, will need a closer look. They are super linked. It's almost too much of a scum Dream Team to be true, there has got to be a lurksack in the lot, look again at Lavender who and who is endorsing her as town. By memory it was Pooky and chkflip but I could be wrong. I am sweating a publishing deadline right now and don't have time to check. I shouldn't even be typing this right now

DGB power housing that Icey wagon is town. If she were bussing/distancing scum then she could've easily hung back and let the Rude wagon happen. That way she could've extended the bus into day start today and continue to cause discussion to lean on it until town got sick and moved on. The above posts were taken from when Rude was the leading wagon with (I believe) 7 votes vs Icey having 4.

-/-/-/-/-/-/-

Unvote

VOTE: a2rudeboy

Rudeboy is an acceptable shred given the game state.

My thoughts on Rudeboy:
1. His shift to tunneling NPOM today (rather than defending NPOM before), right when NPOM changed to a more pro-town playstyle and disclosed living with ASD, has not made sense to me, and he's not been able to clarify why beyond being exasperated with NPOM (e.g., but why

now

?).
2. The previous steadfast defense of NPOM based on flavor innuendo makes no sense in hindsight.
3. His focus on policy lynches D3 when we have flipped scum and related cases, and also declining to engage with in-game content, is consistent with scum alignment, especially if DGB is town. The alternative possibility (e.g., Rudeboy behavior being anti-town apathy) is dissonant with approaching the game with feelings of exasperation (i.e., his stated emotions around engagement).

Caveats:
A. There may be more that I still don't know that accounts for #1-#2, because NPOM/TD's behavior from D1/D3 implies there might be more to it.
B. For #3, it's not unbelievable that Rudeboy could move from exasperation to apathy (though I'd expect him to become less dysregulated re: NPOM in that eventuality -- but you could say it's kinda been reflected in some openness to Lavender).
c. Rudeboy's behavior makes more sense for scum!Rudeboy if DGB is town IMO, and I think DGB is pretty clearly scum for reasons I've stated multiple times.

I prefer DGB and will check for a resurgence of a DGB wagon before deadline.

Rude is town b/c of the sudden pivot away from scum wagon onto him. He and Icey survivailstically cross voted in a way that doesnt look S/S, Icey made sure to explain the read before voting which is like justification for impending townie flip.

I already thought Rude was relativity town for how he was constantly going his own way with his reads despite the unpopular means he came to those conclusions (Ei yeeting low posters). This basically solidifys him as town to me.

-/-/-/-/-

NOPOWER is town for both IKS, and Icey, keeping him in their PoE, and both pushing pretty hard there at differnt points of the game. In fact most the roster has kept NO power in their PoE for much of the game. I guess it could be scum distancing but I don’t really feel it. No Power’s characterization as an "annoying poster" as a big motivating force in SR’s over the course of the game is something that happens to annoying town more then annoying scum too btw.

-/-/-/-/-

PIsskop is kinda grandfather in for his D1 interaction w/ IKS, and me not seeing anyhting scummy from his slot since that point. I'd really love more appearances and content from him rn.

-/-/-/-

Spoiler:

I get it.

I joined in on rude because I can't really defend my TR there on anything other than gut.
If we flip a town slot here, I just hope people will be more open to my angles in the coming days.

Also, I get that me not jumping on the Rude wagon looks bad on me if rude ever flips red. I'd help shred rude if none of my options show present themselves to avoid a no-shred.

Nah nah nah nah nah nah nahnahnahnahhhhh.

That's not what I'm saying. You thinking rude is town is fine. Fucks sake I thought Siteflake was town. It's the fact that you've gone from "I think this wagon is wrong bc townread" to "I think this wagon is wrong bc speed/timing." It's a really strange transition to make, especially so quickly. Again, don't think you're scummy off of it, it's just... weird.

Have you never seen an EoD speedwagon before? They used to be somewhat common. And the speed is two parts: one part "oh fuck we need a lynch" and one part "oh hey that guy is in my null/scum pile, this is fine."

It's about reading the room, Fish. I'm not gonna say I'm some savant, or that I'm even very good at this, but I've seen his name a lot and I've seen him do a whole lot of not much while griping about those that're doing less than he is. Mmmmmm doesn't sit well with me, bud.

Explain why you're town reading them.

I didn't go "I think this wagon is wrong bc townread" to "I think this wagon is wrong bc speed/timing."

Its a combination of those 3.

I've been supportive of most wagons and people have even asked if its normal that I "sheep" so much, so I have been reading the room. It's not like I have told anyone specifically to unvote, I just want people to be aware.

Also, if you think I have any sway in which wagon we will go after you aren't reading the room.

Bright eyed Fish seemed reluctant to leave Icerint for rude, and mostly seemed to do it out of pressure from other players already on rude. I don’t really think it looks like scum being eager to leave a bus. It looks more like town that got nervous that he was incorrect or something.

-/-/-/-/

Gamma being on both scum flips, and expressing a nuanced level of paranoia on my slot is town looking.

Spoiler:

I could maybe see Grendel as scum but his play so far has felt like he’s town trying to solve in his own way

-/-/-/-/-

I'd say out of my town reads Im very confidant in: DGB, Rude, NoPower, Pisskop
Town with a tinge of paranoia: Gamma, Bright eyed fish

I'll do my null/scum reads next

[Grendel]

Oh crap, if that really was hammer then im going to say this before i do other reads!

I think that DGB/Rude/NoPower/Pisskop should form a town bloc coalition and game solve together here on out. I would be throughly surprized if any of them were scum.

Gamma, and Bright Eye'd fish I also like as town, but i dont think that should have the level of trust of the other four.

[Grendel]

So this is where we are right now. The green names are HARD TOWN. We need to sort out the italicized names.

TOWN
DrippingGoofball
a2rudeboy
TiphaineDeath
Gamma Emerald
NoPowerOverMe
BrightEyedFish

Galron
PookyTheMagicalBear
Lavender
Bambi Jay
Grendel
Almost50
pisskop
Doctor Drew
davesaz

SCUM
chkflip

@DGB can you talk to me about TipainDeath real fast?

I want to know why you think he is town

[Grendel]

A 3rd party with golbal actions affecting the whole roster is always a "dreaming God" right? are there other 3rd party with such powers?

Is that a role mafia would want to keep around or no?

[Grendel]

From my notes

I mean at this point I almost expect it would take a miracle for the Iecerint wagon to go through.
Only TD & I are refusing to hop on the rude wagon.

TD said : I HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS WAGON (he has to be town)

Mmm thanks.

I was wary that im SR'ing this guy for behavioral things tied to his play style rather then alignment.

[Grendel]

THis is an odd situation.

I might claim my role in a second after i ask the mod a couple things in private.

[Grendel]

Maybe she thinks someone has information on her.

Grendel?

No i dont have anything on DBG. I was confused how last nights roster wide Bambi interaction would interact with my role. Im not claiming it RN as there are specific points in the game that grant it some positive utility, even if its not doing a lot for me rn.

I didnt get any alerts/items etc this game.

[Grendel]

My night 1 and night 3 targets should speak up.

Adding my night 4 target to this.

I'ma put this another way. Anyone want to admit to having been probed?

That's right. I'm claiming Probe Master.

I dont believe I've been probed.

Sounds like an alien variant. Are you 3rd party, or town?

Im not aware of scum aligned aliens, historically speaking.
-/-/-/-

If players confirm his role we can at least affirm that his role is accurate, and go from there.

[Grendel]

Vanilla Shredder
I was Herman Li but I'm now Leo Natale Carillion

This would be a very weird thing for a mafia to come out and fake. So I believe Gamma is being truthful here.

-/-/-/-

Im confused on Lavender... She is town cleared b/c she visited DBG last night, and dbg didn't die?

Just confirming b/c it seems like a lot of ppl ignored this point despite it potentially pointing to town lavender.

[Grendel]

Um aliens are a legit scum faction in great/grand idea

It is?

I guess you can tell I dont play many theme games here on MS. lol

[Grendel]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/da ... ole=Prober

If this is his role then he should just out his meaningful results. Waiting on responses from the targets themselves seems unnecessary.

-/--/-/-

Hi Lavender, Galron is saying he probed players on N1, N3, and N4. He wants those players to confess getting probed.

[Grendel]

Gamma

What do you think about the Galron situation?

What do you think about Lavender rn?

-/-/-/-/-

Pisskop

Seeing one of my top TRs playing so minimalistic is disheartening. can i get some more thoughts on the current game state and players from you?

[Grendel]

Yeah... i feel like im spinning my wheels until Galron comes back and clarifies things.

-/-/-/-

For Lavender to be mafia would have to be a scum role that can visit with no negative consquens. So that means she'd have to be like a scum aligned investigative or something. I guess she could be rb if DBG didnt have a move to use last night. Assuming that Rb'ing a player that wasn't able to move that night anyways results in them not receiving a "you were blocked" message.

Gooofball

Can you confirm if you moved at all last night?

Mod Baker

If a player was Role blocked at night, but didnt have an action to use, would they still get a "you were role blocked" message?

I feel like thats a "no", but I feel like i should ask to be safe.

[Grendel]

lol... Actually solving Lav may not even be necessary here. If shes a PR then she's going in line to get NK'd anyways. (I'd still appreciate responses to the above tho)

Pre-edit

Ahh, dice rolling is treated like an action right?

DGB wasnt rb'd then. Lav is prob town.

[Grendel]

Oh, whoops. Lav is still machinally less likely to be scum then a random flip, though the degree of which is not determinable afaik. lol

[Grendel]

Yeah... that looks like scum hail mary to me

[Grendel]

Bambi and dave didnt mention you visiting them either Galreon. :/

I just dont see why town vigs dbg over like... idk most of the roster. She was one of the most town looking players...

[Grendel]

Hmm, I dont see why town would make this play.

VOTE: Galron

[Grendel]

UNVOTE:

Did i hit majority?!

[Grendel]

I forgot that DBG death means 7 is majority now

[Grendel]

Or rather i didnt notice

[Grendel]

I read though D1 over the night phase, and I intend to read through the whole game before this day phases ends, though i may have to start and stop p frequently based off of town activity. Yesterday was awful, and i intend to make up for my own misstep in full by investing myself into this game to an extent i dont normally do. Expect a lot more from me in future.

Not very far into my read through I recalled something that chuaght my attention when i first subbed in

@No power & Rude

Your both placed semi-trusts on each other D1 based on shared flavor. I don’t see where that flavor was revealed. I need at least one of you claim your flavor please.

This is very important to me. I dont need any info about your role, just your flavor.

I’d also like to know where/why your mutual trust evaporated. I’ve not got that far in my read through.

[Grendel]

I've already claimed shredder several times.

I Mean the guitarist in your role pm!

[Grendel]

General read through thoughts

Spoiler:

The first 5 player wagon was on No Power and it was headed by Iecrint. It was by all means still a RVS wagon started on page 7. However its the largest wagon to this point, and it has scum as its founder. I can call this a point away from No Power scum.

Page 12, rude defending Nopower looks like TMI. Doc drew dances around what it could mean at 288. Idk when the flavor tie was revealed, but if it was after D1, then Drew picking up on this and thinking its sus is town like.

On page 17 Pooky calling out Tipaindeath’s town AtE posting style in another game to bait Death into AtE’ing this game dosent look like a s/s interaction.

508 Rudeboi, No power flavor weirdness. Is this a point in the game where one of you elaborate further b/c I saw nothing about you guys shared flavor in thread proper.

565 Titus apply the pressure to A50 hmm…., next post she points at rude as scum

SOmehting I didn’t really realize. (Since I did catch up mostly thought ppl’s ISOs) but the initial Site flake wagon was came up as fast as an RVS wagon. This game is interesting at how there isn’t really a dead eye turning point away from RVS into the serous game. Its been pretty gradual so far. Anyways, this speed RVS wagon looks good for the players on it. Its pretty low info, and scum would probably think it best to ignore and push else where. So minor town points for all involved.

Nopower fighting the site flake wagon is

664, oh crap, I never noticed that this pool is just the wagon that formed on him at that time. That’s why Tipain wasn’t present here despite the SR on Tiapindeath in other posts. At one point I thought there must be scum in that pool but knowing the context behind it im not so sure. Worse looking player out of the pool is Pooky based on my over all feelings of remaining players alive within that pool.

709 Knowing that Icerint leans hard into IKS buss D1, makes sense to not put multiple scum in scum reads, Mostly would want to use associates from IKS to justify push onto town afterward. NO power stands out to me as a main post flip target. No power looks town again.

974 iecrint writes a couple sizable meta-analysis posts of bambi jay involving multiple games. He comes back with this really middling read on Bambi. For scum to extend so much time on meta of another player and then come back with an unsatisfactory answer dosent look s/s. For example if they were buddies and he was uncomfortable outing a read he could have easily not done so at that point in time. Bambi wasn’t under pressure AtM.

994 Titus calling out A50’s activity again.

Tipain death ignores flavor ties when he votes no power at a point of the game where most the roster backed off b/c of them. Ppoint against Tipain scum with ethier rude or No power

Tipain expressing cageyness over the IKS wagon, where as he supported Icerint flip a few days later is really interesting. It seems like scum Tipain would be eager to bus the low contributing IKS, but want to hold onto the more well set-up Iecrint.

1140 how hard does Drew normally bus as scum?

1161 Pooky encouraging Chkflip to dismantle the ISK wagon.

1213 weird post of Dave praising Iecrint’s catch up. Feels kinda weird for scum to do that with their buddy? Maybe???

1228 I don’t understand Lavender’s reasoning with this vote. I would like elaboration.

1286 Pisskop wanting to PL Site Flake is weird. Why not cash in with a scum read to get town cred the next day?

1298 Dave has more game theory posts then I previously recalled. Im not a big fan of that.

1321 Lavender beetle juices more then I recalled. Well, I cant exactly catch BJ’s in ISO format.

1401 Im at an impasse where I have to know NO powers flavor.

1449 Pisskop keeps writing off IKS as a PL, but keeps sitting on the wagon. This is not typical scum bussing by a wide margin.

1541 I’ve mentioned this before maybe, but No power and pisskop are not S/S. Via Pisscop claiming and IkS, NO power reaction to it. No power also looks like he isn’t scum with IKS since the double up votes on Pisskop by No power and IKS would be abnormal scum behavior. Tho this point I feel not as strongly on as Pisskop not being scum with either of them.

-/-/-/-/-

WHere im at right now

Town: Pisskop, Tipaindeath,
Town lean: Drew, Gamma, Bambi(she could also be 3rd party canidate)
Is some kinda PR: lavender
idk: Dave
Scum: Pooky, A50,

Pending: No power, Rude

[Grendel]

Tipain has bad scum chemistry with in how he handled both scum wagons. Happily bussing a decently set-up Icenrint D3, but on D1 he is uncomfey bussing lurker scum IKS.

He doesn't really have scum chemistry multiple living players to form a cohesive team. SO unless he's just lone wolfing in a way somebody could point out to me... I don't really feel like he's scum anymore.

-/-/-/-

Drew can be town. but i want a look at his bussing meta if he, or a familiar of his can give me that.

-/-/-/-/-

I want to know Lavnder's vote reasoning on No Power D1 here

Drop a Vote
Drop a Vote
Drop a Vote..?

Okay okay, I uhm think I’ll VOTE: NPOM because they tell not show.
If that makes any sense _o—<
I of course have considered every player, with my mind in a grand state.
The grand state of sleepiness.

PE:

Averts eyes away from the argument

(>_>)

[Grendel]

Tbh I have a really hard time following pooky's motivations b/c he support a lot of pushes and dont dig his heels in v often. In a way it seems like hes riding waves as they come, and not really doing his own thing to solve the game. :/

I noticed that the times he dug his heels in were when he hard defended Lavender. A player im fairly "meh" about. And seeing him fan Chkflip's anti-IKS wagon flames.

When i notice other times he ignores/protests things happening Ill look into that b/c at this point i feel like thats best way to sort him. (If anybody can confirm this as good sorting method for pooky that would be great)

[Grendel]

My character wasn't part of the issue with rude.

I keep insisting that this is important and you keep going Stoney on me.

I need to know what your character is, why cant you work with me on this?!

THese no rule against Flavor claims is there?

-/-/-/-

Pre-edit- thanks Lavender

[Grendel]

Lavender may I please have some roster related thoughts not relating to Bambi's status as plausible 3rd p.

Im interested on your up to date thoughts of anybody that is not in my town list. Expect Drew if you have meta for how he buses laying around that would be good.

[Grendel]

Okubo rather

Ahhh, thanks, and sorry.

That wasnt the flavor i was expecting.

-/-/-/-/-

No power and rude can got back to the town bloc.

[Grendel]

What do you think of Pooky hard defending you the other day?

You see that as town, scum, or Non-ai?

-/-/-/-

Dave is a player i want to invest more time sorting soon. I feel very back and forth on him.

[Grendel]

Can we avoid any claim shenanigans from here on out?
If it's worth saying it's worth being truthful and toying with being mysterious just isn't worth it.
If you aren't sure it's worth saying then perhaps don't say it.
We'll have a bunch of dissonance if we aren't in the same tuning.

Pedit: generally in electronics a killswitch turns everything off. I'd hazard a guess at universal roleblocker.

I apologize if my pushing for No power's flavor cliam got on your nerves.

Im going to sleep in a second, if you could do me a favor could you rehash your Tipaindeath SR for me, or pull up your case if you already did it.

What do you think about my thoughts on scum chemistry?

[Grendel]

OH!

Is anybody town reading A50? I would like to hear some reasons for that if possible.

It seems like a lot of players are just avoiding sorting that slot and it bothers me.

[Grendel]

I hope you guys had a good day. Mine was pretty terribad. :death:

Spoiler:

1575 Looking as IKS role claim. Rude's reaction is disappointingly passive. He fielded a question, and seemed to wait on thread's feelings instead of voicing a stance quickly. NoPM disagreeing that its town aligned role based off what is known of the flavor is town looking. Most other players seem unsure how to react. Pooky/A50 defends the flavor claim. Drew Switches to No Power next page.

For some reason I thought Rude had town looking moment dealing with ISK claim, but I must have misremembered things.

1629 It is a curious thing that A50 says that his behavior is normally scum read. Yet in this game very few seem to scum read him.

1667 Gammmaaaa, if you are reading rn this can you walk me through why A50's posts around this time struck out as town to you?

1692 my town read on drew is diminishing. This looks like scum stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I guess that all i had left to say about D1.

[Grendel]

D2 read through starting here

Spoiler:

1743 rude believing the trolly day vig claim is such a weird thing for scum press upon. Like regardless if he as scum is faking it or telling the truth. Makes more sense from town not catching the truth.

1781 No power casing DBG as scum who posted their vig list as cover for the night kill is really funny. Its not something I think scum would attempt to push b/c the roster at large would discredit it hard. (which the roster basically did)

1812 Drew point on No power is interesting. It is weird that site flake dosent cross vote. Never thought about it.

1982 I notice that pookys point here parrals Drews point earlier about No Power, IKS, cross vote. Drew acknowledges that in a pretty awkward way next post.

2008 If Rude where to end up flipping scum I find the behavior here to be akin to a frustrated at a buddy. He refers to No power here.

2021 No Power keeping Iecrint in his PoE is a good look. Iecerint was better off then IKS, possibly one of the more set-up scum. Usually scum going deep aren't kept as back pocket reads.

1915 Sometimes as scum I have a preference for burying myself into one specific tool for an extended amount of time. Like for example spending a v long time developing a reads list to look townie. That’s something I’ve done as scum before. Also he has takeaways I just totally disagree with. Like No Power position D1 EoD still looking to him.

2071 I agree with Dave’s point of Lavender’s vouyarstic playstyle being scumy feeling.

2072 Dave’s point of scum spending more time on post formatting is such a superficial thing to push. ;/

2076 this tendency for Tipain to scum read players strongly without explanation is troublesome. I've more or less cone to the conclusion that is just a thing he likes to do, and probably isn't AI.

Chkflip vs Looker looks like a waste of time so i skipped it.

2284 & 2387
Im curoius to know where Lavender is for Gamma now b/c i seem to recall him pulling back on her past D3, (Gamma can correct my if im wroung) Also I wonder way Gama thinks that No Power looks town for the whole "Dont invite outsiders into mafia games, thats the MODs job" when No Power raised that point again later after I subbed in, and in that instance Gamma SR'd it. No Power had basically the same reaction both times.

Chkflip keeps emphasizing how town Lavender is via meta. This is making me feel obligated to read some of her other games. Tho it'dd be a bit before i do.

2463 This point dosent make sense to me. Like how in context does it even point to scum No Power. If Tipaindeath still thinks its relevant then I'd like to hear it out.

2479 series of gamma posts here seem weirdly detached from the game state. Reminds me of old school gamma, and i cant tell if thats something Ai for me. I recall always SR'ing it, but I dont think I was ever correct back then so....

2508 I generally like these kind of these "planing ahead" posts being made in thread proper as town like. Shows thought in the game state beyond causal commentary, plus scum natural instinct is to do planning posts in private chat. Nice Dave post.

2510 something feels manufactured by A50's paranoia here.

IM past page 100, and im tired of doing this tonight. I havent really mentioned Pisskop here. Umm, he looks fine, I'll keep him in my TR's.

[Grendel]

My TiphaineDeath vote is blatant OMGUS because the loltunnel is getting on my nerves.

Sorry, I need to sleep soon as well. I'll say that looking for scum chemistry can be a mixed bag. Scum know they are partners and know they should avoid laying down connections, so behavior that you would think is counter-intuitive for partners is often the right thing to do. I'll try to remember to look at specifics.

Thanks, Im looking forward to the cross refence.

So annoyance is the biggest factor in the vote itself, but how likely do you think he is to flip scum?

[Grendel]

yea, can we powerrope drew yet?

If you have a case on him I'd be interested for sure.

I really want to know how he interacts with scum buddies if you have info

[Grendel]

OH!

Is anybody town reading A50? I would like to hear some reasons for that if possible.

It seems like a lot of players are just avoiding sorting that slot and it bothers me.

I’ve been TRing A50 pretty steadily since D3
Dave also was a TR at one point, but I need to double-check how I feel on him

Can i get follow up on both these points?

Im hungery for more takes on Dave, and I dont understand where A50 has town motives.

[Grendel]

Really i feel my reads of gotten less concrete then they were yesterday. x.x

[Grendel]

Ok you fucking clowns lets look at things Pooky has done:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12270475

You see this? The mo-mo had swung from Ice-Ice to RudeB 7-5 - then I fucking turn the town around and we nail Ice-Ice for DGB like a fucking boss.

That should be enough to tell you I'm town.

But if you guys really want to shred-obvtown pooky to continue the long string of town-throwing I'm happy to die so I can go shit talk Galron some more in the deadthread for making the biggest throw in forum mafia history in 2020.

It's fine, this entire town is one big giant throw and I'm cool with it.

Idk if the momentum would've turned back onto Iecenrint if Gamma hadn't joined you on voting Iecerint tho.

Also you claimed this as a reason to TR you to DGB the day after when she showed some suspicion in your direction. I dont think its an Obvi bus. I just dont see it as impossible that you wouldn't bus Icerint. Espesaliy if you thought you could use it to pocket DGB, and get serous town cred, in the process.

[Grendel]

VOTE: Drew

Drew's focus and logic then he first started cutting into IKS D1 is in v sharp juxtapostion with how he was playing by the time i subbed in. Drew was pretty unfocused D3 onwards, play didnt stand out to me much at all. I feel like an informed perspective is why his IKS push in the early to mid D1 looked so impressive to me. He hasnt replicated yet in my read through.

Granted i dont know how he distinces/busses etc,

[Grendel]

Town is {NOPM, Pisskop Rude, TIpainDEATH, Gamma, bambi} roughly strongest to weakest, but I doubt I'd touch any of these guys outside of a Lylo situation

Everybody else is shifting and sliding around too much for me to give a concrete scum team rn.

-/-/-/-

See you tomarrow evening.

[Grendel]

@Grendal I was right re inviting outsiders.

I got some criticism for saying it at the time but the fact is that it's not fair to give one player an advantage over another by bringing in a possibly perferred player(not saying Grendel was preferred in this instance, just as a principal).

What prompted you to bring this up?

It was my fualt. I mentioned it in my read through.

-/-/-/-

attention to this game now, although it still is BORING (mainly because nobody's bringing anything new to the table and there isn't nearly as much activity)

Well... why not be that ray of light who'll jump start thread activity?

Im sure you could if you pushed yourself.

-/-/-/-

I'm fine getting rid of drew not so much a50 I'm kind of perplexed why people want to keep death around though.

what did you think of the points i outlined for town Tipaindeath tied to his lack of scum chemistry with the rest of the roster?

[Grendel]

I think the only way TD dies this game is by getting voted out

Im pretty sure he'll flip town.

How strong was you SR there?

[Grendel]

Oh I am 10000% throwing a tantrum, and you all deserve it xD.

You can be flustered or whatever it is you're doing. But when you chill out I'll like if you could elaborate more on your reads list a few pages ago.

Im interested more elaboration regarding A50, and Drew.

I already know what you think of Pooky.

[Grendel]

I don’t recall ever feeling super strongly that TD is scum

Im pretty sure you voted him at some point recently?

Actully maybe im thinking of somebody else lol

[Grendel]

(death) "I'm not throwing a tantrum! I'm not, I'm not, I'm not!"

“Oh hi Mark”

"I deeet nawt hit her, I deet nawt!"

-/-/-/-/-

pre-edit

I thought Death was always varying degrees of tilted at any time. At least that's what a 2nd hand thoughts of ppl who've played with him before have said. I havent attempted to meta him.

[Grendel]

@TipainDeath

I really dont think Bambi is scum btw. I dont think it'd be fair for the scum side to have a role that constantly affects the whole roster. Mafia can strategize around it, theorize together on what each option does, allies can give the user advice on what power could do what, etc. It could get busted pretty easily.

Its much more likely she's town, or 3rd party.

[Grendel]

Good evening

@Lavender

The other page you said you sus's Dave but were not confidant in that. maybe you should proitize sorting him tonight if you have time

-/-/-/-

pre-edit GN death

[Grendel]

Death and Rude are the scummiest players in the game, it's no secret why they are voting together.

DO you actually have much experience seeing two scum voting together like this?

Its pretty rare imo.

What was your case on Rude?

[Grendel]

Might do some VCA myself, I feel like I’ve recently learned how to do it well, even if the results aren’t 100% perfect.

You totally should!

I dont think i looked at VCA too hard since the first couple days i had subbed in. I might to do that myself at some point today.

[Grendel]

Ok. Here we go.

Fuck it.

I am Josh Bowen from Periphery. I am a Big Brain VT. The big brain means i know the other two guitarists of Periphery are role flavour in the game. They are not my alignment.

VOTE: Rude

Im Misha Mansoor from Periphery! Im also have the "Big brain" modifier, I was also informed that the other two guitarists from Periphery were not of my alignment.

Im not VT, but i have no reason to out what PR i am.

[Grendel]

SO I WAS RIGHT ABOUT NO POWER AND RUDE FLAVOR STUFF???!

Where the heck did No power get that obscure Japanese guitarist he outs his flavor to be the other page?!

[Grendel]

what ever, we should flip one then the other. I dont really know what my preference is???

If one is 3rd party i guess they should cliam. but its entirely possible that they could both be scum.

[Grendel]

God! I feel so dumb for hard town reading both of them for like 90% of the game! lol

[Grendel]

Vote for one of us Pisskop. Dont just cheer from the sidelines!

[Grendel]

The 3 guitarists are Holcomb, Mansoor, and Bowen?

notice Mansoor, and bowen are both confirmed in thread proper. No Power getting those two right, and also mentioning Holcomb probably means his actual flavor is Holcomb.

-/-/-/-

pre-edit

ok pisskop

theres 3 members in the game and only one is town. Im the town one, i dont know what the actual alignments of the other two would be. Just that there not town aligned.

[Grendel]

Rude if you are actually 3rd party you need to claim next post. Otherwise im going to assume you are scum 100%.

Actully if ethier No power, or Rude, are a 3rd party then they need to claim next post.

[Grendel]

Tbh i dont really have to worry about a 1v1 to prove my towniess b/c there should be enough town left on the roster that they can go through (Me, Rude, No Power) pool and hit the minimum one scum in there. So its not a huge deal If im the one flipped today.

I can probably worry more about assossiatieves rn instead. I should just assume both are scum for the time being while I go back.

[Grendel]

well no actully. it probably is 1 town, 1 indie, 1 scum

since Rude's flavor sounds like mine in terms of the "Others dont share your alignment" line, that means if he's scum then the other member would be an indie. Vice versa if Rude is 3rd party then other member is scum.

No power is Conf!Perphirty member right? Or is this just an educated guess on Rude and I's parts?

[Grendel]

Drat, we only have 12 left alive. We should still have 3 miss flips left if there's only 3 remaining scum. But if its 4 scum left then we only have two flips.

-/-/-/-
pre-edit

rude are you 3rd party?

you aren't contesting my townie cliam either way

[Grendel]

They are not my alignment.

Are you CERTAIN?

You could be right!

[Grendel]

Yeah No power is probably not the 3rd member lol.

I just got really excited when i saw what rude claimed in thread, and i remembered you guys were flavor linked.

[Grendel]

Welll techincally not flavor linked... more like rude thinking you guys were flavor linked, and professing it in thread

[Grendel]

*@GAMMMA*

What are your thoughts?

Are you a member of Pheriphy, if so are you the 3rd party?

-/-/-/-/--/

Also bambi is plausibly a 3rd party i think. If she want to confirm or deny being in the band that would be great!

[Grendel]

*@NO POWER*

Unvote Tipaindeath and vote between Rude, and I.

-.-.-.-

Rude, you are still claiming to be town?!

if thats the case then im confirmed not town to you and you should be cross voting me.

[Grendel]

theres a mutally exclusive relationship between 3 players and you want to vote tipain rn? :/ :/ :/ :/

You really feel your tipain read outweights this?

[Grendel]

I cant say anyhting about Walter. But i know from previous exp with The Rows, that he lurkers and subs out a lot as any alignment.

[Grendel]

No power, I feel like this argument applies more to like a newbie Road to Rome game.

-/-/-/-

Pre-edit

Dave, what do you mean?

[Grendel]

I just, I don't see the possible scum motivation to grendel stepping up and calling a 1v1 there. Unless this is the "bastard" bit and we're just gonna kill a bunch of useless-ass neutrals. Seriously, if ya'll are 3P survivors you should REALLY claim now, otherwise one of you is scum, or you're both dumb and going to both die :/.

Im town. Im not 3rd party, or scum.

/-/-/--/-

Being away from the thread for a bit i think its a good chance that Rude is 3rd party not scum. Dosent really make sense for him to claim where he did if he were scum.

Also nobodies come out of the wood work claiming 3rd party band member....

Im still ok going through with flipping him since I at the very least know he's not town.

[Grendel]

For my part I tend toward helping the 3p who helps town the most. Hint hint.

DGB just punched a wall in the dead thread.

If there is another Periphery guitarist in this game, and once everyone has posted since the dualing claims, and the third guitarist doesn't claim...aren't we probably guaranteed not to hit scum here?

Obviously there is an 'if' factor here, but I couldn't see a scenario where scum claims Periphery here unless there is something kooky about the specific roles. Again, this is only an issue if in fact there is a third guitarist.

Drew reasoning here looks pretty town if Rude ends up 3rd party. mafia would definitely want to capitalize on a town v Indie here i think.

preedit

the band is called Periphery

[Grendel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periphery_(band)

[Grendel]

I've been saying my actions every day tho. My thing is kinda hard to hide.

Wrestling Mafia(not the exact name, but the theme) modded by Baker had myself and A50 as separate 3p's.

So just because it appears there is one 3p, doesn't mean there isn't another.

It says in both his and my role pm that other members don't share each other's alignment. -.-

Ok. Here we go.

Fuck it.

I am Josh Bowen from Periphery. I am a Big Brain VT. The big brain means i know the other two guitarists of Periphery are role flavour in the game.

They are not my alignment.

VOTE: Rude

Im Misha Mansoor from Periphery! Im also have the "Big brain" modifier,

I was also informed that the other two guitarists from Periphery were not of my alignment.

Im not VT, but i have no reason to out what PR i am.

[Grendel]

I just, I don't see the possible scum motivation to grendel stepping up and calling a 1v1 there. Unless this is the "bastard" bit and we're just gonna kill a bunch of useless-ass neutrals. Seriously, if ya'll are 3P survivors you should REALLY claim now, otherwise one of you is scum, or you're both dumb and going to both die :/.

this 3rd party vs 3rd party is a non-entity to this discussion, idk why its what people are talking about. If i was an indie that won via flipping rude I would've said so.

[Grendel]

Pisskop, I think mass flavor claim is good play here too.

How should we do it?

[Grendel]

@Baker

Hmm, do indies with separate win-cons counted as separate alignments? or same?

[Grendel]

Wait, @Baker, wasn't I voting Rude?

Also, Rude, you need to claim 3P or die today, and then if you do grendel can have the same option.

So if he claims 3rd party, and I dont claim 3rd party you'd flip me?

That train of thought makes no sense. Both players (Him and I) openly said that our role pm said that others in the band dont share our alignment. Him claiming 3rd party means Im not 3rd party.

I;ve siad this a couple times now, but for some reason players keep insisting this is some kind of 3rd party v 3rd party scenario with no basis outside of the Mod's being quirky.

[Grendel]

it says, according to both:

you know that the other band members are not your alignment. 3 3p with differing wincons does seem to constitute that.

Im town not 3rd party, and I'll die on that hill lol.

[Grendel]

Baker

@Baker

Hmm, do indies with separate win-cons counted as separate alignments? or same?

Can you answer this please?

-/-/-/-

I dont find this 3rd party vs 3rd party talk to be an effective use of speculation. Hopefully if my assumptions are correct then we can just move things along.

[Grendel]

Given that everybody has checked in to the thread since I cliamed. I feel I can safely say Rude is 3rd party, Im town, and the other member of our band is scum.

Theres a very slim chance the remining member is 3rd party, and rude is scum. If that were so then that 3rd party is prob anti-town indie. Pro-town indie would have calimed so we could safely consolidate onto rude scum. Ergo, its less complicated for rude to just be an indie, and the hidden member is scum.

-//-/-/-

I guess im still ok flipping rude, but I'd rather hit scum... :/

I have to think.

[Grendel]

I believe thats Elim minus 1.

Im good to go for a rude flip, but i would liked if we finished the mass flavor claim first. Tmk Pooky claimed a trolly flavor, and Lavender hasnt said anyhting on the subject. Was there anybody else?

[Grendel]

Baker

@Baker

Hmm, do indies with separate win-cons counted as separate alignments? or same?

Can you answer this please?

-/-/-/-

I dont find this 3rd party vs 3rd party talk to be an effective use of speculation. Hopefully if my assumptions are correct then we can just move things along.

In most cases, win con determines my understanding of alignment.

well i guess techincally this means that nothings stopping baker from putting muti-3rd parties in the band if they have differnt win-cons. Mmm disappointing.

I still stand by my thoughts that its not the case in this game. Since i know im town, and if the other band member were a pro-town indie they would've claimed so we could confidently flip rude who is at best a anti-town indie from thier pov.

[Grendel]

Yeah, same thing I said to rude applies to grendel, if you are 3P in all this you really do need to hardclaim it now, because it looks like we are after rude first, but if rude flips green then you're gonna die mate. Like, if he is an idiot and doesn't claim and flips gray then MAYBE you get to live, but if you're gray you gotta tell us.

Honestly at this point if rude flips red I am like 75% tempted to call this a gambit and powerlynch grendel ANYWAY.

so regardless what rude flips im still a SR for you? Ummm, okayyyy lol.

You're really something else TIpain

how is he hardcleared lol

Are you going to claim real flavor or no?

[Grendel]

is baker trying to tell us we r throwing lol

@Grendel you should be able to figure out my flavor from my crumbs dude

I dont listen to much metal. Most the flavor goes above my head.

is baker trying to tell us we r throwing lol

@Grendel you should be able to figure out my flavor from my crumbs dude

GIS 'Mayhem Dead album cover'.

mmm thanks for pointing that out.

-//-/-/-/-/-

@Tipain

Rude could also be indie here, who for some reason dosent want to cliam his real role. In fact that's where im leaning right now.

His behavior is p werid for scum, and if the other member of the band were a pro-town indie then they would've claimed to catch rude.

[Grendel]

who called drew!scum?

pk did

I did as well

Holdup one fucking minute, everyone look real close at that Role-PM Flip by Drew. First person to tell me why it's different from the other Mafia-flips we've seen and who we should be REAL suspicious of as a result gets a cookie.

I dont think i saw what you were talking about. Only line i saw that looked different from other scum role pms was that line about his "loyalty to his team is impenetrable". WHat did you see Tipain.

What i did notice looking over his, and IKS's role pms is that scum cant preform their personal abilities, and the factional kill, on same night. Which is really useful info for late game solving.

-/-/-/--

Was Pisskop mech cleared somewhere and i missed it?

I saw a few players hard clearing him, and while i think he is town I was going off of play alone.

[Grendel]

I dont really feel up to doing one myself atm, but i look forward to seeing VCA from those thinking about pursuing it.

I like the effort Tipain has put in so far, and I hope he keeps it up.

-/-/-/-

Pre-edit

how many 3rd parties have shown up in prevous Baker games? or in themes in general?

[Grendel]

I don't remember. I think there were 3 in the game before last and one in the previous one.

Thanks

-/-/-/-

Yeah A50, a lot of the night kills have been super weird this game tbh.

I might have some useful information about last night, but I think i should wait until later to talk about it.

[Grendel]

Come join us Tipain!

Take your divinely ordained place at the right hand of Pooky The Magical Bear.

You're the last piece of the puzzle needed for our holistic journey to meet its end.

[Grendel]

Im actually not sure if Pooky is trolling or not anymore lol

[Grendel]

I can't tell what's up with Drew's
Well, with their role it seems likely that there would be an Investigative

yeah... has a town aligned investigative flipped?

I dont recall there being one.

[Grendel]

Cult must have limited slots since we're on D7 and this is the first cult flip.

I've never played a game where cult have gotten into the mid/late game, and I've never had to scum hunt for a cult faction in a more competent/professional site meta.

I'd ask one of my TR's to hold my hand through this stage of the game but im not sure who cant be cult, or scum atp. I may have to come back tomorrow with a fresh set of eyes. :/

[Grendel]

I have thoughts, but im not sure how to coherently put them onto text.

Also, I asked baker if a PR looses its power upon getting recruited. He says they retain original powers. So PRs with confirmable actions arent clears here.

[Grendel]

If cult can win with town, and scum are eliminated totally rn then this should be GG. But Baker didn't announce GG. Soo...

Also in that scenario there is atleast one scum left on the roster rn and cult should just claim so we can narrow the PoE down. Even if its not their leader, just the recruits, that would be a big help.

Maybe that's stating the obvious idk haha

[Grendel]

Yeah, honestly whoever is cult right now probably serves their wincondition best in either scenario by claiming. Scum will never shoot you, and if we believe you then town never lynches you either, and you make us all winning the game much easier.

Tipain sounds like uninformed townie struggling in the dark from his posting today, and EoD6. I feel like he has to be town.

-/-/--

nah im not crazy enough to straight up open-cult from d1 bro

i mean i wish i was that crazy

but im like not

id seriously need to be on shrooms or something

Pookie is wild enough based off what I've seen this game that I dont think that its impossible hes cult. I wouldnt rule him out.

-/-/-

Gamma actully sounded kind informed when he was defending me EoD6, and I cant recall ever playing a game where Gamma hard defended me like that.

Idk if both scum would try to take the high road in the Rude Vs me from yesterday like that, (Other scum would be Drew).

However i recall Gamma having some kinda role pm slip with another townie which would be a really weird thing for him to fake claim as scum. So idk where gamma falls. I think i saw something that pointed away from him being cult last night, but now i cant find it.

-/-/-/--

I dont know if touching lavender today is a good idea. I have reason to believe shes not mafia. As far as the cult thing goes... that im not so sure of.

-/-/-/-/-

Im going to look into No Power's interactions to see if it clears/darkens some folks. Im surprised nobody else felt inclined to do that before now.

[Grendel]

ill put it this way:

if i wanted to win as 50s claimed role i’d town the fuck out of my slot and then claim doc?

I was thinking this too btw

I would've expected him to try and play hyper town w/ a win con like that.

[Grendel]

i dont think lavender can be the cult leader because if she was she probly recruits me right

i am so nice

who wouldn't recruit me into their cult?

someone who is not nice

thats who

If you're cult you're self-implicating yourself by openly saying you would expect to be culted

[Grendel]

I could see Bambi being recruited into a cult for sure. She's been leaning in hard on her role actions in thread over game solving for days now.

[Grendel]

Okay so nothing seems to be advancing despite clear reason for it to, so I have to make my next step be the next step.
When I said I was a “special” VT, it wasn’t a lie, but it wasn’t exactly true either. I started as a normal VT, but I got culted N3. We’ve determined the cult can definitely win with town, and so me and the leader decided we’d claim this at some point. The leader is actually pisskop, and I thought he was going to do something with the gunsmith claim (which was fake), but his last post tells me he isn’t doing what I thought. I thought he was aiming to accuse someone specific with that. I’ll get into that in my next part of the post, which I will start right below.

The full mechanics of the cult as

I

know them are that until there are 3 alive members, pisskop can keep recruiting, but after it hits 3 we can’t recruit more. In exchange any night we are at capacity, we have a nightkill of our own, turning us into a bit of a “cultafia”, which I put in quotes because our wincon make that a poor descriptor. In addition, pisskop can still recruit when he is dead, so he could possibly work as a ghost cop at that point? I need to make sure I get informed of whether I get new partners after pisskop dies.
As for targets, the recruit targets went NPOM (success), Lavender (failure), Gamma (success). Following the, starting N4 we shot BEF because the others were thinking he was towny iirc, and I just wanted him gone. I was the one who fired the shot, so it would be possible to think there was a role steal aspect to the shot, but I also have verified it was just mod error that caused the flavor switcheroo, and Baker isn't lying on that level so I can trust that. The next two nights we shot Grendel (which was especially ironic for me N5 since I was the one firing the shot, thus being an interesting case of me bringing Grendel in and then being the one to take him out), but he survived twice. I'm guessing he survived N5 because of Bambi's action, and N6 because of Lav's (I'm glad it failed the second time too because losing essentially conftown like that would have been unfortunate).

Now one glaring thing there is the fact Lav avoided recruitment N2. There was the seeming global rb, but if that was NOT the case then Lav is confscum because obviously the cult action fails on groupscum (essentially a loyal action that considers the cult leader as town for the interaction, aka: leader doesn't die if he targets scum).
Another thing that's been nagging at me ever since I got culted was the fact it seems like there's a reprogrammer (role that restores a player's original alignment) based on the way our wincon looks? It seems like the cult is designed to be able to win with town in order to neutralize the inherent call to out the cult if someone becomes town again. Another spot of irony, given I instantly betrayed pisskop the last time he recruited me into a cult of his, thus the speculated reason there is one that acts counter to my natural urges. As I wrote this up I had the thought maybe the reprogrammer is a scum role, there to dismantle the cohesiveness of the cult?

OMG! I was notified of my visitors last night.

Drew
Nopower
Lavender

When i realized cult was a thing i was super confused by Nopowers visit b/c i was like... "was he trying to recruit me? Why did it fail?" Anyways this basically confirms my suspicions that Lav was a protective of some sort. She protected me from two NKs in the same night haha. Lavender is lock town for me

[Grendel]

I could go ethier way on dave, or A50.

Pooky i still have paranoia of, I guess. But he's probably just a player type that I will always struggle to get a read on.

Tipain is town, lavender is town, Bambi is probably town. Gamma, and, Pisskop are cultists.

[Grendel]

Do it Gamma!

[Grendel]

VOTE: Dave

Im fairly dubious of A50 cliam still, but tbh I think I want a Dave flip.

[Grendel]

Its such a big weight of my chest to know that Gamma isnt scum. I had a dream the other night where he was scum and he dunked on me this game. Regardless how concretely I kept finding him to be town in thread. I still have been more then my fair share of paranoid of him if my sub-conscious is screwing with me to that extent lol.

[Grendel]

No, it was why wasn't he voting A50, though I would like an answer to A50's question now that he brought it up. If you guys didn't shoot Drew, who did?

No, i don't think that's a necessary question. If town aligned kill power has a scum death notched under their belt, and they aren't in a position they need to clear themselves its better they dont out that info imo.

[Grendel]

I made an excel showing vote by vote counts.
One living player stands out as often having a (relatively) high VC before the player who was eventually eliminated, with a count that goes down in tandem with the eliminated player going up.
I think it might be fun to point this out and open the floor for guesses on who it is.

I dont have any guesses rn.

Who is it?

[Grendel]

Im a little sad that cult knew they could viably win with town, but kept trying to NK townie looking towns. Feels like they were wanting to win alone via outnumbering the roster, and working with town was just a back up plan incase they lost thier KP. smh

nah, its fine. I get how it is.

Gamma could still be recruited scum

it's just not as likely though.

How would that work?

[Grendel]

Well, im sure that'll be interesting to read. :0

[Grendel]

I wonder why grendel didnt claim his visitors until after the cult claim though.

I was afraid that the roster at large would think i was culted or something b/c a cult member visited me last night...

I was also waiting to see what Lavender claimed. I suspected a protective role, but was not sure at the time.

-/-/--/

I really don't appreciate the players poking me to full claim when im conf town. Or atleast as conf town as one can be in a bastard game. -.-

Like why is that necessary even?

[Grendel]

Why is Pooky trying so hard to open up PoE pool at this point of time?

-/-/-/-

Pre-edit

Dave what are your thoughts on Pooky?

DO you think Pisskop would cliam 3rd party like cult in this situation if he couldn't win with town?

[Grendel]

and frankly, for the future, gamma i would have prefered you hadnt outed me as ‘the cult leader’ and included all of our mechanics in your claim post.

but such is

ftr Gamma's open handed reveal is a big reason I believe you are town siding 3rd party, and not planning to screw us over in the long run.

[Grendel]

Yeah... im pretty ready to see a dave flip.

Only things on my mind are that I'd like to see Bambi to engage with the game in a more meaningful capacity. I want Dave to get in here and post some legacy reads. (In case he flips town) I;d like to hear other players thought's on pooky/A50. Aside from that im set.

[Grendel]

But... you'll lose if we flip you today?

Wouldnt you just hope who ever we hit is town, or there are more then one scum left, and then that somebody with kill power shoots you tonight?

[Grendel]

@Pisskop theoretically are you ale to recruit A50 now that you're down a member again?

[Grendel]

I'd much rather try and hit scum today then flip an indie. :/

[Grendel]

Unless this is a scum gambit to ensure he doesn't get flipped later?

...eh, idk that seems tin foilly. Its just such a gusty move for scum to go, "Im an anti-town indie everybody!" especially when things were leading up to a dave flip in so far rn. hmm

[Grendel]

Yeah, you're correct I think. If i had a role that relied on being NK'd to meet my win-con then I would no-vote here.

[Grendel]

Hey so Bright eye's fish was one of cults kills right?

Is it possible to divine who was the mafs intended kill was N4?

[Grendel]

I'm a loud alien. I targeted DGB Night 1, Starbuck Night 2, Bambi Night 3 and

dave Night 4.

Alright, I will accept what baker just posted as the cult not needing to be killed, in fact, it might even mean that their creation is a scum-ability rather than having an actual cult-leader lurking around.

I want targets from Lav and Pisskop please, and Dave and gamma should claim.

Yeeessss sirrrr
N1 - pisskop
N2 - BrightEyeFishy
N3 - DBG

N4 - DGB

N5 - Bambi-chan
N6 - Grendal

these are the only outed nk interfering/protective roles tmk. Bambi doesn't count b/c her night N4 ablity was making things loud.

Pluasible options:

1) Dave was the night kill, but protected by Galron
2) Dave was carrying out mafia's factional kill and got stopped by Galron
3) DGB was the night kill target and Lavender prevented it

-/-/--/-

option one is unlikely given that Dave wasn't widely TR'd in that time. Two, and three are pretty plausible.

I guess I dont have any new, or reinforced TRs. It definitely is keeping me hungering to see what Dave flips.

[Grendel]

this was n4 right? which thing did bambi use then

N4 She used something that made players loud i believe

[Grendel]

WIth 9 alive rn pisskop isnt a immediate threat if cult decides not to townside, is my math wroung?

Cult recuits tonight and they have 3 tomarrow. whole roster would be 7 assuming we do a flip today, and one person dies tonight

cult cant kill rn otherwise they wouldnt have risked outting, and working with town.

[Grendel]

Even in a world where dave dosent flip scum, cult dont win right away.

Plus scum would probably hit pisskop tonight since his role is the most direct threat to them rn

[Grendel]

So, I've been thinking..

We know that we are at either 5-2-1-1 (5 Town, 2 Cult, 1 Scum, and myself) or 4-2-2-1 (4 Town, 2 Cult, 2 Scum, and myself). If save is Town OR if there are 2 Scums, and with Cult recruiting (probably myself); tomorrow we are at 3-3-1 (assuming Scum shoot Town) OR 4-2-1 (assuming Scum shoot Cult). If 3-3-1 both Town and Scum must shred CULT (lest Cult reach 50% of the living players); but then Cult will recruit once more and still win. If 4-2-1 Town must shred correctly or lose (and Scum have already lost).

I have no problem with that if I'm culted (or NK'd), but what if I'm not??

If I was Town I'd probably have wanted to shred pisskop, if for nothing else then to verify his ability to recruit from the dead thread. If it's true, Scum will be practically forced to shoot Gamma tonight (and I know where to target to get shot too), so tomorrow will be 4-1-1 OR 3-1-2. If pisskop can NOT recruit after death Gamma is safe from both Scum AND Town (he's no threat to either) and it will be 3-1-1-1 or 2-1-2-1 (in this case Town has practically lost, because even with Gamma's vote they do not have 50% +1 votes)

Where am I going with this? I honestly don't know. I guess I was hoping there's only 1 Scum left, so if Cult can't recruit I still can win.

Right now (with dave as the shred) I am counting on pisskop recruiting me (or me guessing the NK correctly, which has proven to be a tough and confusing task)

Anyway, this is me prodging, but with actual game content

that 3-3-1 senerio is the only imeadate senerio where cult can win alone tomarrow, right?

Is that likely senerio in your opinian?

[Grendel]

idk i feel like them outting merits that they feel they have to work with town to safely win, which would mean they's be wining with town.

[Grendel]

im kinda drunk some im having a hard time properly thinking through these theoreticals

-/--/-/-

I mean you can be bravado as you want pisskop, but outing and town siding post NOPM flip helps the likihood of your win quite a bit imo. Better then if you stayed slient i think

[Grendel]

Im tryingggg to piece the game togather D:

im just having a hard time focusing

[Grendel]

Im really skeptical of Bambi scum b/c she has a global affecting role.

Those are not really seen being given to scum right? Do you have experince with scum getting roles like that?

Also doubt shes indie b/c there are a lot of outted indies at this point. if she were indie then there'd be two jesters varients, a cult, and then whatever she is. cult byitself makes a sorta mutiball scenrio. So it seems less likely then her just being town.

-/-/-/-

pre-edit

I favor Dave for flip.

I think that A50 is good recuit material. Since he's etheir non-town or lying scum.

But i dont want to box your options in incase scum have some sorta counter mearure to "follow the cop" situations.

Yes this is my low key think that Pisskop is a better protect choice then me rn.

[Grendel]

lol I mean, I think we have a great shot at this.

yeah, I think so too.

Im just a wary person in gen.

[Grendel]

Pisskop if dave is scum, and there is 2nd scum who are you leaning towards it being?

IM thinking it would be pooky

[Grendel]

What stops you from being scum beyond what you were saying about your pressence on the Icerint wagon?

B/c i wasnt sadisfied with that as evidence. In fact i think you could def do that as scum.

[Grendel]

pooky id very brazen. imo i was going to push for a mislynch on them. Meaning I thought they were 3p or town.

imo we have 1

scum

mafia and one 3p to lynch.

I certinaly hope there only one scum left

but we dont know for sure

[Grendel]

*@baker if a faction is totallt elmnated do you announced that?*

for example, if there was only one scum left and they were fliped, would you say scum was elemnated from the game?

-/-/-/-

pre-edit

thats not a real answer pooky

[Grendel]

BUt how does that tie with this game in particular? are you worried youre going to lose and that makes you town here?

I dont really jive with arguments that sound something like "this is how x thing plays out when im y alignemnt" b/c I have to take your word you are that said alignemtn in the first place. Its basically self meta.

[Grendel]

I know you're an experienced vet with a funny persona, and a lot of confidence. Im sure you're a great player, but even great players can get cuaght with their pants down eventually.

You dont think Pisscop is town siding 3rd party? whys that? (beyond what you already said about death cop thing)

[Grendel]

thats not fair. Im town and im trying best i can.

I think that pisskop may of had reasons for cliaming that dead recruiter bit. But i feel if im correct in my assumptions I'd better not say rn.

over all what anti-town motivation could he have for outting himself as cult?

[Grendel]

I def feel like cult that couldnt win with town would've not openly cliamed today.

If there is a reason they would do so then please eleborate

[Grendel]

ok fine, if cult couldn't win with town then why would -Gamma- out that he was cult, describe the mechanics of the cult, and then who he was aligned with?

[Grendel]

Honestly I don't know what kinda game the scum and assorted 3P are playing anymore and I'm kinda tired of it. I have having fun when I was doing VCA and felt like I had caught people, which apparently I had, it was just MORE 3Ps. At this point I'm pretty checked out, sorry fam x_X.

I made this cereal just for you Tipain!

[Grendel]

Why are we entertaining A50 as a role that needs to be NK'd to win, when he hasn't done anything all game that would invite a NK?

I think A50's claim is fake. If he actually needed to be NK'd he did not play it as such. He's only making that claim because it started to look like he'd get limmed.
Something that you think is proven isn't.

This is definitely a senerio that i think is possible. His play doesn't really match up with his claimed role this game.

Thats why I want pisskop to attempt to recruit him. B/c if he's lying scum then the attempt will fail. If im understanding the specs pisskop and gamma laid out correctly.

[Grendel]

@Dave

i understand you are probably not in the greatest of moods rn, but I'd like to ask a favor.

You professed one of your strengths to be solving in the late game. Considering that you could be town here, I'd really appreciate if you could give me the run down of what/where town should go on following days post your flip.

-/-/-/-/-/--

Pre-edit

A lot of the times cult leaders do have a weak modifer. tho it varies from one game to another

[Grendel]

An almost flip would be fine. As long as we hitting inside [Dave, Almost] today I dont think i have any complaints. As i think the other person can always be visited by pisskop tonight. Assuming Pisskop and i are on the same page as far as the game state goes. I think were are.

Aside from his pooky TR i guess.

-/-/-/

@Pisskop should you out who you want to visit tonight?

[Grendel]

i dont know about that. You are really familiar with dave!scum?

I've seen him around, but this is my first real game with Dave tmk.

[Grendel]

^The Above is response to Pisskop