That's what the PM says but not sure why you'd be heavily invested in me proving it. I tend to just play as me and not care what a pred has done unless there's a mob after them already.In post 1767, Noraa wrote: now prove mini to be innocent
Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!
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Thanks for the welcome.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Not really true. Just sometimes.In post 496, Saudade wrote:It's actually in my meta that i'm the most unlikable player in every table I'm inA community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Worth taking a look at whatever prompted this.In post 553, Saudade wrote:I may be wrong but did he just shade every single active slot in one way or anotherA community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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It varies depending on the game and how many people I know. Sometimes I actually read up, other times I do ISO reads of certain people and try to catch the current vibe.In post 1772, Redados wrote:Davesaz, what is your catch up strategy?A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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This one's going to be more weird than most because there are only a couple players I've seen before, at least by these names. If there are alts involved it's possible I know more of you, but I tend not to dig for that unless necessary.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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This is a fairly solvey type post. Don't remember what threaded me there tbh, one of the drawbacks of not reading in order. Thought it was worth noting for myself later in any case. (in case you're wondering my catchup posts also serve as reminders to myself of what caught my eye)In post 1757, duppin wrote:i see. Out of curiosity if it was someone other than Redados who voted, would you still have concluded it was an attempt at pushing a mislynch rightaway or is this assumption based on your read on Redados?A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Nah, I'm jumping around. On first glance there's going to be a high noise to signal ratio this game so I probably won't deeply read most of the old stuff. Unless someone wants me to look back that far for a particular reason.In post 1778, Noraa wrote:You read thru 72 pages that fast?A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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The first sentiment here is pretty good. Yes, large numbers of votes are revealing, though I'd argue that knowing why people voted is equally if not more important.In post 469, Mundivore wrote:
Stuff doesn't happen if people don't get voted for.In post 421, shellyc wrote:
INTERESTING, tasty, very tastyIn post 418, Mundivore wrote:I'm clownreading shelly. This super aggressive behavior seems detrimental to her no matter her alignment.
And I think you all know what I think about clowns.
opportunistic wagoning, -2 townpoints
I don't like readlists either. If someone wants to know what I think of someone, they can ask. Otherwise, posting readlists feels like it gives scum more ammunition than anyone else. Scum like to kill people who townies think are town. Scum like to mislim people who townies think are scum. And the list itself is non-content, something scum can create and share to appear as if they are contributing to the discussion while really only reacting to it in a way that is favorable to them.
Disagree on the second point. I don't think it's possible for town to get a good result without sharing information, because we inherently start out at an information disadvantage. There are obviously some things that need to be kept close to the vest but a general idea of who you think is scum is essential for consensus building. It also helps to have given reads when town if you're eliminated, because the remaining people can use that if they choose to listen.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Does this come from a place of authority with regard to Shelly's meta?In post 885, Mundivore wrote: shelly plays mafia with the same mentality as a wingsuit diver. She just yeets herself off a cliff-face and hopes not to be dashed against any rocks.
Hmm, this jives with the previous post but yikes, RVS mentality nearly to post 900?You won't have much to read. I still haven't exited RVS mentality... this is a very hectic game, and I tend to keep my reads to myself until I find them useful.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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I wasn't as sure earlier in iso read but this seems town mindset in general.In post 1046, Mundivore wrote:I mean, I just turned Saudade's wagon into a much more viable wagon. By my own reasoning, a Saudade town flip (atanypoint in the game, even if we leave this wagon for a better one) should make me appear more scummy, and a Saudade scum flip should make me appear more town.
I'm aware of the fact that my vote looks more scummy than not. As I said, playing towards the middle is a fine strategy. The point is, I'm making a play that has consequences. Votes, and the ways people react to votes, and the ways people reactwithvotes, are the only thing that have consequences and therefore any concrete long-term meaning in this game. If you're serious about your doubt of me, vote for me. Things need tohappen.Otherwise, town will keep floundering until we run out of time and we're forced to elim the person with the most votes on them just so that we don't give scum an extra kill.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Answers the 2nd question but not the 1st.In post 601, duppin wrote:
yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left withIn post 598, shellyc wrote:duppin what other reads do you have
i don't really concur with your red read, fwiw he seems pretty disagreeable by thinking that the game is moving in a direction he dislikesA community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Hmm, silence would give the same impression which makes me wonder whether this is scum motivated.In post 610, duppin wrote:
you are free to find me suspicious or vote on me for doing so I have no problem with that whatsoeverIn post 608, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don't mind anyone voting Jester if they genuinely scumread him. But voting purely with the explained reason that they fundamentally disagree with self-voting is where i draw the line.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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This doesn't make sense from the quoted post. Was there an editing mistake or something? If not it feels evasive.In post 1824, shellyc wrote:
I never scumread Norway, I asked you to elaborate on NorwayIn post 1821, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
ok now that you're voting for me im gonna need you to explain why you scumread me exactly. and why do you think duppin is town?In post 1819, shellyc wrote:finally ive finished the 12 pages
i think norwayVplus is kinda TvS-ish, with the lack of coherent logic
I think taylor is my top SR
plusjoy is still a scummy slot
scumpings on noraa has increased but might just be LHF
if taylor is red duppin is probgreen
norwee has now become nullish
redados is townleaning with the pushes and mentality i see a townie mindset tbh
mundivore iso isnt exactly great but i want to see more content
jester still town
hot take i kinda SR bugs for not giving us his notes but stating he has notes in notes pt. moving out of rvs is nai and idk why hes getting so much cred for it.
please cite specific posts.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Oh duh, should have looked at the post before it.In post 1825, shellyc wrote:didn’t mean to quote that but im going to follow up on that
I scumread you because I heavily scumread your pred, and you aren’t making me changing my mind on you
especially the duppin read sounds like an attempt on attacking lurking LHF
I don’t townread duppin, duppin was always a null for me, but if you’re red I don’t see you bussing there
Since the topic of duppin comes up here: I wasn't townreading duppin in early iso read but it looked better later. Not a strong TR and I had to stop last night before I was done.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Jester isn't new.
Imayhave seen bugspray before but not sure. The elimbait characterization could be correct from what I noticed page 74. No time to meta dive. I've seen some people who were elimbait as both town and scum so I don't know if that factors into AI or not.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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I didn't know who you were, but it was very obvious that you were too familiar with enough people to be really new.In post 1922, Odd Day Jester wrote:And I would've got away with it too, if not for those meddling Norwees.
I could tell you knew straight away though, so I appreciate you not outing me immediately this time lolA community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Even if you know who someone is, for iso reading purposes it's better to refer to people by their name in this game. Please and thanks.In post 1928, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Hectic too seems like their usual town self.
They don’t scumread me though which is slightly odd, since when does town!Hectic not scumread me.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Yeah I know, that development showed up after I had noticed that Jester was referring to meta that a new person wouldn't have.
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Here is a partial look on where I am. Still lots to look at.
duppin looked scummy from posts like 601 which looks somewhat evasive, and 610 which looks like an overt attempt to be chill about being scumread. Later posting like 1701, 1718, 1757 look like they are trying to find out other players alignments via discussion which is pretty towny. On balance I'm thinking town though my early reads are never strong.
Tayl0r was involved in a lot of the questioning from duppin, and the way she handled those posts seems to ignore the topic that duppin is trying to explore/explain/question and continue as though her version is truth. By not quoting the things she's asserting about duppin and failing to acknowledge the rebuttal points it makes it look like she wants to fit evidence to the read instead of the read to the evidence. I need to read her more but these interactions look scummy.
Jester / Hectic had a really good post that I spoilered in an earlier post -- looks town to me with the usual caveat that it's weak.
I need to re-read Norwegian's interactions with Tayl0r. I think there were points where I thought each of them looked like scum during the first reading, and that makes me doubt that it's coherent. Also looking at just those interactions is too narrow a focus, need to look at Norwegian's overall approach. Rather than try to make a call from possibly bad memory gonna have to make it a to-do.
Mundivore admitting they're working on a case but becoming less convinced 1989 is a good sign but not enough to get a real read from by itself.
I've seen Noraa post but can't remember the substance of her positions. Her iso is too long to approach it that way. Some of the tone as I've spot checked is cheerful and friendly enough but I'm unsure what that should mean.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Got a "because clause" to go with this?
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The point of a big wagon is not to get a claim. The point is to find out how people react to the wagon. Multiple big wagons in a day is more revealing than a single wagon.
The reason for getting claims when close is to evaluate the claim, shift gears if necessary, and go ahead to eliminate if it's unimportant or doesn't make sense.
The reason for getting to a claim with a day or two left on the deadline is to allow time for a shift if one is needed.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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UNVOTE:
Didn't realize my vote was still there.
bugspray can you explain how Noraa's reaction is more scum than town?
Tayl0r's claim would be NAI in a vacuum because it's just as likely a scum role intended to mess stuff up. The informed claim of there being a mafia doc (is that Norwegian? posting in quick reply so can't check easily) isn't clearing precisely, but it does lower the chances it's a scum role. A devious game designer might have both scum roles (doc and rolestop) as a way to punish town for thinking it's a hard clear but that would imply lots of town power.
The Tayl0r / Norwegian interaction doesn't look SvS unless it's award worthy theater. Could be SvT, with Occam pointing to Norwegian as scum. If that were true and I'm remembering who claimed informed, it makes a dandy WK gambit. TvT and talking past each other is a strong possibility.
Possible but unlikely would be a mafia doc fakeclaiming rolestopper to change things up. I don't see that as a play that scum!Tayl0r would make without first knowing there is an informed, and I don't think that would be Normal. Pre-empting any accusations of fence sitting on this post, I think it's important to explain the rejected paths.
Of those two, Tayl0r is more likely town than Norwegian, and both town is the most likely of the combinations.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Hold the phone, I thought you said doc earlier.In post 2191, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Rolestopper is a protective role.
I was informed mafia has a protective role.
If you're informed mafia has a protective role, and that's all you're informed about, then why derail the wagon? Shouldn't you still be gung ho on it?A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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No I'm not misremembering this.In post 2117, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Oh that’s really interesting Taylor. Because i’m an informed role and i’ve been specifically told this setup has an mafia doctor.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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I would like to say though, if you see something like that it's far better to just file it away for future reference. Having a giant conversation about it has a bunch of potential negatives. If it was a soft in the form of a joke you just drew a shitload of attention to it. If it's just a joke then it still flirts with inadvertently causing premature counter claims or unhealthy setup spec. There is a time for that but usually not this early in a closed game.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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When you get a chance it would help me to read both you and duppin if you'd quote a few posts and say what you're seeing in them that's scummy.In post 2389, Battle Mage wrote:Hectic man, did you read the duppin ISO? it's one of the scummiest ISO's I've ever seen, and I refuse to believe you can read it in good faith and not think he's scum.
Going from memory I saw a couple things in duppin's iso that looked cautious or evasive but it seemed to get better later. I posted about it.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Why is this a +town thing to do?In post 2525, Battle Mage wrote:I am hereby claiming a confirmable town power role. I.e. I can mechanically confirm myself as town.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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+town postIn post 2613, Hectic wrote:Hey, BM, you normally actually do the meta on these kind of cases. You looked at the rate of my usage of "worries" and "concerns" in that newbie game. Why are you choosing to ignore evidence which suggests your case is completely invalid, or look into it yourself?A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Yeah I've never seen someone suggest popcorning read lists before. I don't think lists are as useful to scum as you suggest.In post 2614, Hectic wrote:
Let's not. Especislly not right before a night phase where scum can use the information to make better nightkills.In post 2593, shellyc wrote:lets do a popcorn giving readslists
@duppin your turn, take as long as you’d like, im off with some RL stuff for half an hourA community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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In post 2629, Hectic wrote:If people want to start voting/compromising, I'd recommend Redados. I think UNOwen's reasons are legit and his lack of reasons and then backpedal on both of his scumreads on shelly and Noraa is shady.Being quick to accept suggestions and eager to please has been noted.
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Percentages are a little weird to me in general. I noticed Shelly's list that was percentage based, though I suspect it was more along the lines of making a list and then assigning arbitrary numbers to the levels.In post 2638, duppin wrote:not really relevant but this is the third 90% scumread on me this game, not sure whats about with the 90%A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Wonder if anyone else noticed this...
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I think you misunderstood my post.In post 2818, Battle Mage wrote:i'm certain everyone did, including me! What's your point though?
I wonder how many people other than Noraa and myself noticed that you claimed VT and then a mysterious confirmable PR. Not how many people noticed Noraa's post.
I'll take this chance to say that the rest of my catchup has been like reading chaos, and the only real result has been a slight headache from trying to follow it all.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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With one or two votes on you at that point and a couple days to go?In post 2819, Battle Mage wrote:
heh, cause I was just gonna get day-elimmed otherwise...In post 2811, davesaz wrote:
Why is this a +town thing to do?In post 2525, Battle Mage wrote:I am hereby claiming a confirmable town power role. I.e. I can mechanically confirm myself as town.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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I could have been like a zoomer and posted again right away, but decided not to. You're welcome for the setup.In post 2826, Battle Mage wrote:oh what a pagetop! lolA community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Actually I don't know if that's the correct usage of zoomer. Us boomers have a hard time with the lingo sometimes.
Pedit: no I'm insinuating that a bunch of people didn't notice it, which casts them in a slightly darker light. Not quite shade mind you because I'd hate to be accused of something heinous as that.
Pedit2: Eh, if you're town then shark repellent could be a good idea I guess.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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This post stood out when BM posted it. I thought it was nuts at the time. Guess we know what it meant.In post 2661, Battle Mage wrote:
If I die tonight, this one is lockscum btwIn post 2653, Noraa wrote:Imma be off at a lake most of the morning so dont expect my vote to change
VOTE: NoraaA community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Let me fix this
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Pretty sure there are no busdrivers in normals. I don't follow normal rules closely enough to be certain though.In post 3136, duppin wrote:okay so unless something weird happens today we already know who we are limming but it'd still like to point out vigi would not be the only explanation for this, another possibility could be a busdriver or something similar.
Don't remember if millers are still in the Normal rules. Something to give a weak a false scumread. We'd need to ground her anyway if she were miller.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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No, all kills are supposed to be indistinguishable in normals.In post 3151, PlusJOYED wrote:
sks have to have their own kill flavor separate from mafIn post 3148, duppin wrote:in that case i cant see an explanation unless we have a vigi or sk around
@noraa if you aren't maf you need to claim rnA community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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Eh, maybe a simple version with the understanding that there is a wall behind it if needed?
We can always use the time to dig for your partners if this is just a ploy, and if you are somehow town then slowing down the train would be easier the earlier it's done.
Pedit: and slow typing is another thing I fight lolA community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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davesaz Survivor
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My current scumreads are Noraa and Mundivore.
Slight scumlean on you.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community- davesaz
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davesaz Survivor
- davesaz
- davesaz
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davesaz Survivor
- davesaz
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11182
- Joined: August 24, 2014
- Location: Socially distant
- davesaz
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davesaz Survivor
- davesaz
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11182
- Joined: August 24, 2014
- Location: Socially distant
- davesaz
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davesaz Survivor
- davesaz
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11182
- Joined: August 24, 2014
- Location: Socially distant
Here's some bat info
I found the same Norwee post but thought it would be better to hold it until/unless bugs got run up.
Not a huge fan of all the loose lips, y'all need to think more about the situation and not paint targets on people.A community that stifles dissent does not deserve the title of community - davesaz
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