Mini Normal 2169 : random facts, game over !

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Let’s all VOTE: iconeum for an

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D1 guillotine!

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The battle for first post is over; the war of the pagetops is just beginning

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Code: Select all

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let's all VOTE: iconeum for an

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day one execution*!

ur late

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I can only assume that datisi’s lack of enthusiasm, as proven FACTUALLY by her not getting first post, is a result of her being scum, probably with iconeum

2 down 1 to go

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Aha, but there is PUBLIC setup information for this game that (1) all threads have daytalk and (2) that there are 3 scum in the game

The implication of you not having read the public setup information is that you didn’t *need* to because you ALREADY have an informational advantage!

Checkers!

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Ah ha ha, you think that I’ve fallen into your trap when in fact it is you who has fallen into mine!

I knew you would know that I would know that you’d read the public setup information, and my pretende to the contrary was a test to see if you would falsely claim a lack of awareness! However, instead, you chose to try to use your knowledge of my knowledge of what you would have done to shade me, which is definitely a scum-motivated move! Therefore you are indeed the scum here!

Uno!

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the country of russia is bigger than the planet pluto

Thank you menalque, very cool

Ur welcome

Also I’m proud to see that our mod is giving Pluto its proper designation, planet

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Who wants to leave RVS early? Show of hands

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BM scum?

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Okay full disclosure I’m in a PT with icon and he’s acting kinda shady — for instance he/gypx have visited the PT 3 times since I last posted there and there was a thing early where I saw the view count go up without any post, and it was right after Icon and I were talking so I think he was still around and it was prob him looking not gypx

I also think his response to my memeing was kinda scummy for him

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I told him explicitly that if he didn’t talk with me there and start to town it up I’d out this to town and start pushing him and the view count went up again since that was posted and still nothing

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Also, mine

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Was it ever really yours tho

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Also, vote for iconeum!

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rawr!

i have spicy things to say

fuck rvs

expect me here tomorrow

Beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice

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VOTE: noraa

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I feel moderately happy calling datisi town at this point

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I think a scum in (BM, noraa) seems likely above rand

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Okay full disclosure I’m in a PT with icon and he’s acting kinda shady — for instance he/gypx have visited the PT 3 times since I last posted there and there was a thing early where I saw the view count go up without any post, and it was right after Icon and I were talking so I think he was still around and it was prob him looking not gypx

I also think his response to my memeing was kinda scummy for him

If this is actually legit, I'm happy to elim you for it.

Oh, also, yes this is very much legit and if you wanna come at me for it feel free but it’s not gonna go like you’re imagining

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Okay that’s my masculine posturing quote filled for the the day, I’ll be resuming chill-service from this point on

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I feel moderately happy calling datisi town at this point

only moderately?

I’m a little bit drunk otherwise maybe it would be strongly

You know the dragon dats

Do you agree that it’s +scum that he’s ignoring me in our PT despite reading it even under the threat of me outing the neighbourhood and pushing his flip

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Also, vote for iconeum!

this gives me flashbacks to Saw Mafia. Not a good vibe homie

I... didn’t play in saw?

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Okay full disclosure I’m in a PT with icon and he’s acting kinda shady — for instance he/gypx have visited the PT 3 times since I last posted there and there was a thing early where I saw the view count go up without any post, and it was right after Icon and I were talking so I think he was still around and it was prob him looking not gypx

I also think his response to my memeing was kinda scummy for him

If this is actually legit, I'm happy to elim you for it.

Oh, also, yes this is very much legit and if you wanna come at me for it feel free but it’s not gonna go like you’re imagining

if that's you threatening to NK me, knock yourself out big guy.

No I just really doubt you manage to get a guillo through on me, no offense

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Also, vote for iconeum!

this gives me flashbacks to Saw Mafia. Not a good vibe homie

I... didn’t play in saw?

no, it gives me flashbacks to my own play in Saw Mafia. You reminding me of me. Not a compliment, hombre.

oooookay only I’m not you so why do you think I would play scum similarly to you?

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Bruh I haven’t even read saw but if you’re saying “you remind me of me, not a good vibe” that p strongly implies you were scum in the game you’re saying I remind you of you in

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Okay full disclosure I’m in a PT with icon and he’s acting kinda shady — for instance he/gypx have visited the PT 3 times since I last posted there and there was a thing early where I saw the view count go up without any post, and it was right after Icon and I were talking so I think he was still around and it was prob him looking not gypx

I also think his response to my memeing was kinda scummy for him

If this is actually legit, I'm happy to elim you for it.

Oh, also, yes this is very much legit and if you wanna come at me for it feel free but it’s not gonna go like you’re imagining

if that's you threatening to NK me, knock yourself out big guy.

No I just really doubt you manage to get a guillo through on me, no offense

*shrug* we'll see I guess? me getting elims through is never normally a problem, for better or worse. If you think you're special, I don't need to press further.

yeh, guess we’ll see

Starting to prefer this order for elims tbh

VOTE: BM

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I feel moderately happy calling datisi town at this point

only moderately?

I’m a little bit drunk otherwise maybe it would be strongly

You know the dragon dats

Do you agree that it’s +scum that he’s ignoring me in our PT despite reading it even under the threat of me outing the neighbourhood and pushing his flip

huh, i thought drunkness amplified reads, but ok

i know the dragon yes

i think it's +++scum and you should probably out the neighbourhood and poweryeet his ass

Makes me less sure of myself actually, depends a lot on the person. Well, like, the drink itself makes me more confident — the awareness of being on the drink makes me aware of the fallibility of that confidence and therefore it’s a net decrease in certainty

The last line is sarcasm?

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What’s your read on BM, datisi?

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In what sense, even vaguely, can you be said to have “busted my ass”

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Bruh I haven’t even read saw but if you’re saying “you remind me of me, not a good vibe” that p strongly implies you were scum in the game you’re saying I remind you of you in

i disagree

Ok why

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Noraa and BM both scummy but not scum together

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Noraa definitely overly concerned and coming out with some weird takes

BM far too confident and aggressive for the amount of information available at this point in the game

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Mine

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In what sense, even vaguely, can you be said to have “busted my ass”

i had a list of 2 scum, you were on it. immediately afterwards you voted for me, apparently at least partly due to your fear that i would elim you (as you quoted that post when you voted me). Sorry dude but I'm taking those bragging rights to the bank, I busted your ass.

Nah fam, because this would require me having fear of you being capable of guillotining me, so try again

I’m voting you because I’m increasingly thinking your pushes and efforts to sling shit are more likely to come from scum!you than town!you

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Bruh I haven’t even read saw but if you’re saying “you remind me of me, not a good vibe” that p strongly implies you were scum in the game you’re saying I remind you of you in

i disagree

Ok why

eh? i don't agree it strongly implies that at all - it's a leap of faith you have made. The burden of proof is on you to convince otherwise, not the other way around.

I think this is pretty clearly not the reasonable assessment of anyone who’s coming to that statement from outside of the two of us

“You remind me of me, not a good vibe” in a /mafia game context/ is, i think, pretty clearly implying that you’re saying something about alignment unless you wanna argue that you have a well known reputation for disliking yourself as a person

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i thought he was vaguely +town for the mindmeld about noraa

I would agree that if noraa is scum then he’s just arrogant, but I think he’s posting in a fairly agenda-y way (the push on noraa but also trying to leave room to pivot in my direction, advancing support for the opposite-neighbours thing but wanting to flip me first and only then icon)

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I assume that also answers your question about the tldr

Idk, dragon is prob still a better vote? But I don’t mind getting rid of BM today even if he is town if he’s one of the arrogant posters who is gonna spam the thread up with a bunch of very loud and wrong posts

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is menalque an ego player?

Moderately

I have a strong and specific distaste, along with a rough history of anyone who thinks they’re the shit who can’t back that up

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The reason is that town is going to let the other scums do whatever tf they want.

Why is this a bad thing tho, we still get a scum for the trouble and we can worry about sorting the others later if this is TvS

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Is Menalque the only person that saw those pushes on me as far far far too aggressive? Especially for 7 pages into the fucking game?

In fairness well over half the PL has yet to post/has yet to post anything substantial so I don’t think there’s any way to get a clear consensus on what the general thread perception of you v BM is yet

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Hey Taylor, I’ve got a question, why aren’t you voting?

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The reason is that town is going to let the other scums do whatever tf they want.

Why is this a bad thing tho, we still get a scum for the trouble and we can worry about sorting the others later if this is TvS

my point is that we also need to be keeping an eye out for the other scums. I, for one want a BM lim today since I am literally so certain those aggressive pushes dont come from town. But I think while we are doing this, we should be keeping an eye out for the other scums.

But like... why tho? Why is it important to look for the remaining 2 scum if you’re already convinced that you have one scum figured out?

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Okay but that doesn’t really answer my question, like if /you yourself/ are in this moment sold on BM scum why are you trying to encourage people to look away from this conflict (where you’re confident there is scum) to other bits of thread

And also, I don’t see how this is really relevant to planning at all. Like in general I’d say it’s almost impossible for town to plan in a normal on D1

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VOTE: noraa

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BM/noraa - townlean
Datisi
Bob - nulltown
T-swizzle -null
(Rest)
Noraa/BM -scumlean

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Actually maybe Taylor should be a scumlean based on that vote

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VOTE: shelly

i dont like that menal and datisi townread each other and then proceed to put themselves on opposing sides of what seems at this point to be a TvT shitfight.

Like why are you voting someone who (1) hasn’t posted yet (2) voting somewhere totally unproductive when there is actually already content that you’ve made a *very ostentatious show of reading through* and (3) suggesting this TvT when it’s not really coming across that way to me and that seems like a very odd take for several pages of early aggression between two slots based on very little

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Actually maybe Taylor should be a scumlean based on that vote

you want me to vote for BM or noraa? no. i think theyre both prolly town. there are no other wagons, its an rvs vote. once everyone has posted then maybe ill have a legit scumread.

mena disliked this post

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i thought he was vaguely +town for the mindmeld about noraa

I would agree that if noraa is scum then he’s just arrogant, but I think he’s posting in a fairly agenda-y way (the push on noraa but also trying to leave room to pivot in my direction, advancing support for the opposite-neighbours thing but wanting to flip me first and only then icon)

from my limited experience with / knowledge of BM, i thought he was arrogant regardless of alignment

i'm not sure i see (scummy) agenda in his posts about noraa? also uhh, i kinda didn't take his read on you as serious

pedit: sighhh
taylor, (1) obligatory why vote shelly, (2) why do you dislike that?

Ehh, okay, I’ll bear that in mind

I would agree that he’s arrogant but that’s exactly why I don’t think him making an overconfident push is clearing? Like I think my impression of his scumgame is that he’s cocky enough to just shitpush out of the gate under the assumption it will be townread for ~taking stances~ and ~trying to solve~

If his take on me is just a joke then :roll-eyes: maybe I’m overreacting. But if it’s serious then I do think it’s +scum equity. But rn I prefer noraa and I don’t think it’s SvS. Like BM is probably in the fairly small subset of players who think highly enough of themselves to just lolbus a partner out of the gate for cred, but even knowing that I would say it’s clearing for him for 2-4 days depending on what the rest of his content is like just because lolbussing a partner is pretty rare as a thing to happen from page 2

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VOTE: shelly

i dont like that menal and datisi townread each other and then proceed to put themselves on opposing sides of what seems at this point to be a TvT shitfight.

Like why are you voting someone who (1) hasn’t posted yet (2) voting somewhere totally unproductive when there is actually already content that you’ve made a *very ostentatious show of reading through* and (3) suggesting this TvT when it’s not really coming across that way to me and that seems like a very odd take for several pages of early aggression between two slots based on very little

sorry, you dont get to bully me into joining your preferred wagon. you think it isnt TvT, i disagree. until *I* see something scummy, im not gonna place a serious vote. considering that more than half the playerlist hasnt really posted and the four who have posted have been in a shitfight, i think thats reasonable.

So is your stance that every post made so far is NAI

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Also where am i trying to bully you into doing anything lmao

Me calling your vote bad/scummy is hardly ~bullying~ behaviour

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you think it isnt TvT, i disagree.

I mean, I think this

BM and noraa both apparently think this

Bob maybe thinks this?

Datisi thinks this

In other words, it’s a very natural and reasonable take to see this as TvS, so my point is you’re not seeing it that way, and I think that’s potentially TMIy — especially when you made posts commenting on it that did imply that you thought things that (predominantly BM) had said were AI but then you... call it TvT and vote a random player who hasn’t contributed anything yet

Yes, I find that a problematic sequence of events in a world where you’re town

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So far BM's the scummiest person here. I see his SR on me as trying to set up some easy limbait since I hear I tend to give off that first impression. Ofc we are still technically kinda in rvs so this is a fairly weak read but ye I will be putting this here for future reference of what I was thinking 3 pages into the game. First impressions can often help town find the scums so I'm not too sure if I found one but we'll see

You are probably literally the only person who thinks I'm remotely scummy here. I'm pretty obvtown, even from my own perspective. Also, you are playing that RVS card way too hard, although can let that slide as you're a newbie.

However, I actually like the above post. Feels like a legit misguided attempt to get bragging rights. Some townie points for you (although no bragging rights, because, i'm not scum, and you tunnelling me is not helping town).

yes let me tell you how much you should have me as locktown on page 3

Post # 102 is a bit provocative. Unfortunately I dont get mad that easily so you won't be able to get a huge reaction out of me and SR me for it. I talk about myself in third person from time to time correct. The other part is kinda rude however scumhunter Noraa isn't bad at her job so u best watch out. Rn a wagon on u sounds like the best wagon

how would you know if scumhunter noraa is good at her job if shes never finished her job?

that's helpful, thanks Bob! she doesn't really think datisi is null, she's just too scared of him to continue pressing. Doesn't want a fight on two-fronts, which seems like sensible play for Noraa-scum, but nonsensical play for Noraa-town.

On a lighter note, Taylor Swift hasn't posted in the first 5 pages!?

taylor must be scum

These do not sound to me like posts from someone who believes that everything posted from these two slots so far is NAI

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If it’s icon/noraa/Taylor then I’m a god and I’m sigging myself saying this postgame

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i didn't say him making an overconfident push early is clearing? i said he's currently more town than scum to me because the push he made nicely aligned with my thoughts a couple of times

i don't know if it is (and @BM you're free to jump in here and correct me) but that's kinda the impression i got (since tbh the thing kinda looked like a pissing contest)
agreed on the room-temperature take of BM/noraa probably not s/s

talk to me about bob townlean?

Yeah sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you did, that question mark was just coming out of my own thoughts on him — like my opinion that it shouldn’t be clearing when for other people it might be

Ehh i guess we wait and see on this. I will try to be chill for all our sakes tho, or at least, civil and non-harassing if he keeps it up

Bob townlean is literally just nothing he said pinged me and it was nulltown as opposed to townlean. But at least he’s here and taking some sort of an interest

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Serious thoughts on icon reading our PT and not responding to me in it especially after he specifically asked me to play in this game?

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If it’s icon/noraa/Taylor then I’m a god and I’m sigging myself saying this postgame

ur not a god cuz I'm town

Well if you are and BM is scum instead then we’ll call it quits at demigod

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-I don't like Menalque's exchange with Taylor where he questions Taylor why she is voting for someone who hasn't posted, and continues to push that despite Taylor making a very fair explanation. I'm scumleaning this slot at the moment.

Okay, let’s talk about this

Why do you think it isn’t scummy to catch up, give opinions on posts made by two players involved in prob the most significant relationship thus far in the game, and then essentially avoid that by sweeping it aside and calling it TvT after making posts that /do/ imply that you have opinions on the slots

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UNVOTE: until VC

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dont concur with the read as BM as scum theatre though; will reread as at first glace VT claim is pretty realistic?

What does this mean?

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Shelly either town or scum who has decided that I need to be pocketed

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Serious thoughts on icon reading our PT and not responding to me in it especially after he specifically asked me to play in this game?

@Menalque is the PT claim a meme or actual claim

Serious

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I’m going to default to town just because of rand odds

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pedit: don't worry the pockets are comfortable

discomfort rising

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What do you make of BM’s displayed confidence level, shelly?

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and i'm looking at BM as a potential scumpartner.

This is a spicy take, you think BM would bus right out of the gate on page 2?

Also, yeah, sorry about the posting frequency I will be trying to dial it down, just gimme some leeway for the first day or so I’m v excited by this PL and that’s running through a bit

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Oh no, I just meant that any given player is more likely to be town than scum at rand (incidentally why it’s a good idea to approach all interactions in as good a faith *as you’re able to* because you prob are dealing with someone genuinely trying to communicate in most cases)

Do you not think BM is projecting an equivalent amount of confidence in noraa!scum as noraa I’d expressing in BM!scum?

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Do you guys know each other from irl or from playing other games here or do you all have the same homesite?

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and i'm looking at BM as a potential scumpartner.

This is a spicy take, you think BM would bus right out of the gate on page 2?

Also, yeah, sorry about the posting frequency I will be trying to dial it down, just gimme some leeway for the first day or so I’m v excited by this PL and that’s running through a bit

all good! yeah i haven't been on the site in a while and don't have personal experience with anyone here i don't think; but i do think that scum opening with straight bussing on page 2 is reasonable and not completely irration
bussing is one of those things that you can WIFOM the hell out of though so i'll have to wait and see

side note: i've been reading the wiki to get up to speed on all the hip new sayings - has LyLo been replaced by ELo in its entirety or is LyLo still pretty commonly used?

I think I recognise your name from somewhere but I’m sure we haven’t played together

Hmmm. Idk, I’m not generally inclined to bus straight away but I know some people would see it differently. I guess I just think that in general, most players won’t bus that early on when their buddy hasn’t done anything /that/ incriminating and there’s still lots of ways out. I would generally only expect that from someone who is (1) really arrogant and (2) really competent as scum, and I’m not sure if BM meets both criteria to a sufficient extent for it to benefit his wincon to actively try to elim a teammate > just letting day play a little bit, seeing where the cards fall, making a push on a slot that seems vulnerable from there

So I guess: possible, but unlikely is my stance on the v early hardbus

lylo is still used but mostly as a slip of the tongue, I think. I’m backing gylo (guillotine-or-lose) but I think elo is prob the most used atm

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I've heard people say wifom and Lylo tho I have no idea what they mean

You would do well to read the mafiascum(dot)net wiki

But basically:

Wifom = taking suboptimal decisions on the basis that it makes you look scummy and scum wouldn’t want to look scummy, therefore making the person taking those actions towny. Named after the scene in the princess bride where the sicilian has to decide which cup of wine is poisoned

Lylo-gylo-elo: the make or break scenario — where town outnumbers scum by only one player and failing to correctly guillotíne a scumteam player gives them equality in numbers and results in a scum victory

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I think the best illustration of wifom from the wiki is the following:

Imagine a criminal is being chased by a community justice vigilante. The criminal arrives at a fork where he can turn either into a dark alley or head into a Main Street that’s well lit. If he heads into the dark alley, he has a 50/50 chance of being caught should the vigilante pursue him. If he heads into the Main Street there’s a 100% chance he’ll be caught if followed.

The ‘optimal’ choice is the alley because even if you’re followed you still have a chance to get away. But if you know that the community justice vigilante knows that that’s the optimal choice for you as well, you might want to head into the Main Street instead because you believe they’ll chase down the dark alley when they get to the fork.

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More like TSTBS can be a deliberate WIFOM strategy from scum. But that’s it’s own thing because town can definitely just be TSTBS accidentally

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VOTE: menalque

Scummer

Do tell

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I can't find it now, I thought you voted noraa then had her in your top town a couple of posts later?

No, i had BM/noraa and noraa/BM at both the top end and bottom end of my reads because I’m still currently leaning towards TvS on that and the one being scum implies the other town. At the moment I’m more on noraa!scum but for a while in the middle I was leaning slightly harder on BM!scum

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VOTE: noraa

BM/noraa - townlean
Datisi
Bob - nulltown
T-swizzle -null
(Rest)
Noraa/BM -scumlean

This is what you’re thinking of

Commas separate concrete objects in my readslists, slashes represent either/or in that singular position

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Amuse me.

*does a backflip*

Tbh most of the posting is me because I’m excited, but I’m about to sleep so it should calm down. I’ll be intentionally trying to limit my posting during the game so it doesn’t get unbearable, if I see a couple of people complaining about pace/spaminess then I’ll prob take a 24hr timeout where I just don’t post, but I’d like to wait for the game to be flowing a bit more before that

Pedit: ur welcome @noraa

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-I don't like Menalque's exchange with Taylor where he questions Taylor why she is voting for someone who hasn't posted, and continues to push that despite Taylor making a very fair explanation. I'm scumleaning this slot at the moment.

Okay, let’s talk about this

Why do you think it isn’t scummy to catch up, give opinions on posts made by two players involved in prob the most significant relationship thus far in the game, and then essentially avoid that by sweeping it aside and calling it TvT after making posts that /do/ imply that you have opinions on the slots

I never said I did or didn't (and in fact, I actually do find it scummy, but not by much). I, however, am more concerned with this:

-You asked Taylor why she voted for someone who didn't post. She gives an explanation as to why, and you keep trying to egg it on by adding in statements such as "but she said a few things about BM's alignment" which through a quick ISO clearly shows otherwise.

Okay, I thought that it was implied that you thought it wasn’t scummy by scumreading me pushing on her. Yes, she gave an explanation... I don’t find that explanation compelling and in combination with the initial act, I think that yes, Taylor has decent scum equity rn

I don’t think I said she said things about BM’s alignment? I said she implied things about it, which is different and I think fair. I can pull up the exact posts and what I think was being implied, but you’ll have to wait for tomorrow

In my ISO there’s already a post where I quote 3 of her posts that I think imply stances on BM/noraa beyond just “oh they’re just having a TvT fight over nothing” and make it very odd that she put her vote somewhere else entirely rather than getting involved in what was going on

when I think her prior posting showed she did have an opinion on those slots

Is it a little reachy? Sure, we’re very early game. But I think it’s a legit reason to be comparatively more concerned about Taylor rn than about than rand would imply

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im beginning to think that noraas just being LHF and we should all think about the possibility of BMvNoraa as TvT

hmmm

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Every time icon, every time

Just let me do my thing fam

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I found Alonzo and Taylor's entries to be the pingiest. Alonzo with a naked vote and then absence, only to call TvT and foist a weak/obviously disprovable vote on Menalque (a slot that had been FoSed by enough to be a potential wagon).

I actually kind of liked Alonzo’s whole progression there. Like, if you’re scum who’s bandwagoning onto me then you pick a reason that will stand up to some scrutiny. There weren’t enough votes for it to be part of an attempt to quickwagon me.

What’s the incentive for scum!alonzo to vote me for a reason he knows won’t hold up only to then back down off it immediately? If I knew him already, I’d say that’s probably a p good way of trying to pocket me, but I don’t. So provided he isn’t scum with like, datisi who told him that’s exactly the sort of thing I’d like, I find his initial answer very likely to be true (skimming, saw something that seemed incongruent, voted based on that, corrected when more information provided) and think it’s actually a p towny thought process

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In response to Datisi and Menalque calling me arrogant - not actually true, it's mostly just tongue-in-cheek really!

I'm aware my scumhunting record overall is pretty marginal at best, although on my day I can be very good, and am improving with age. I generally do my best work when i don't post so much, however that's also less fun!

Mm, sorry then i suppose, I don’t think I was getting your sense of humour very well

Also I want to say I’ve read a couple of games by you fairly recently and your reads were noticeably above average in both, which is why you being wrong on me is comparatively more concerning

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I don't think reading me and Noraa as both being town is scum-indicative for Taylor. I'd be pretty surprised if a few people didn't take that position. Often, but not always the case, mathematically and empirically speaking.

Yeh, I don’t think reading it as TvT is /necessarily/ scum!indicative. I /do/ think that saying you think it’s TvT and then voting a slot completely unrelated to anything that’s happened so far in the game is, and I do think it’s /somewhat/ scum indicative to say it’s TvT after some of the posts Taylor made catching up

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At least partly because it would be hilarious if we flip him Day 1 when he said it would be impossible

I don’t think I said it would be impossible, I said I didn’t think you’d be able to get my flip D1. As in, when I’ve been mis guillo’d it’s generally been because there’s been a broad sense of suspicion of me from town slots in the thread which scum has either tacitly supported or they’ve white knighted me. I think in terms of /actual/ 1v1s that have been forced by me or by someone else I’ve been the one flipped in those once ever when I got into it with RC

[Menalque]

Thanks gypyx!

[Menalque]

I think you’re mixing up fence-sitting with qualified confidence levels

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VOTE: shelly

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Icon why did you out the fakeclaim

[Menalque]

Like you weren’t under any pressure really

I wasn’t under a lot of pressure
Even if I were scum it’s not like I could use that to push you to an elim bc when you flipped it would prove I was lying

[Menalque]

So I guess I’m struggling to see what the town!otivation was in you shutting that down early

[Menalque]

Why is me voting you something that’s more likely to be from scum!me than town!me?

[Menalque]

Yeh okay, I feel like you’re trying to pocket me, and your reads/takes generally have an ephemerality to then that makes me feel like they’re not real, and I think the most concrete example of that if your flip on BMvNoraa from TvS!likely (when you were entering thread and giving reasons for TRing me) to TvT!likely when it seemed like more support was being voiced for that slightly later on

[Menalque]

Icon why did you out the fakeclaim

dude i love and like you all the same but

WILL YOU STOP PUTTING ME IN THESE FUCKING POSITIONS IN GAMES ALREADY

it's almost meme-worthy

bc it only gets funny if it’s always with you

[Menalque]

If it’s starting to cause you genuine distress I will stop tho

[Menalque]

burden of proficiency

hmmm

[Menalque]

So I guess I’m struggling to see what the town!otivation was in you shutting that down early

no u

I mean there may not have been oudles of town!motivation in me doing it in the first place as opposed to “lol icon’s in the game what are we going with today”

But it was generating discussion and idk why you decided to close that down early by outing it

[Menalque]

Note to self do not reconsider my reads or change my stances ever again.

Note to self do not townread people.

also how am I pocketing you if I now think you're scum

That’s... not what was said? There’s nothing wrong with changing stances/reads nor did I say there was. But there needs to be evidence of a thought process there to back that up and I don’t see it with you, I just see you changing your reads to suit the situation.

I also think you nisunderstanding what I’m saying in a hyperbolic way is scummy fwiw

All of your initial posting is about how I’m townpinging you or towny for this or that, agreeing with my takes etc. Then the moment I start putting pressure on you suddenly all that vanishes and I’m prob!scum?

[Menalque]

Also ftr me fakeclaiming isn’t a trust tell because I fakeclaimed cop in my opening post of PyP when I was playing on DonCorleone

[Menalque]

I also think you nisunderstanding what I’m saying in a hyperbolic way is scummy fwiw

why is sarcasm scummy tho

Why are you engaging with this and not the rest of my post?

But hyperbole is scummy because it’s often a scum tactic to discredit what the person is saying. It’s reductio ad absurdum — instead of dealing with the actual reasons I said you’re scummy, you scale it to “mena is saying you can’t change stances or flip your reads or you’re scum” which is clearly a bonkers thing to say and undermines my (very valid) actual reasons for why I think you’re scum

[Menalque]

Yeh okay, I feel like you’re trying to pocket me, and your reads/takes generally have an ephemerality to then that makes me feel like they’re not real, and I think the most concrete example of that if your flip on BMvNoraa from TvS!likely (when you were entering thread and giving reasons for TRing me) to TvT!likely when it seemed like more support was being voiced for that slightly later on

[Menalque]

@icon

I also think her response to me: town -> scum despite the posts calling me town earlier are scum!indicative for her

[Menalque]

So I guess I’m struggling to see what the town!otivation was in you shutting that down early

no u

I mean there may not have been oudles of town!motivation in me doing it in the first place as opposed to “lol icon’s in the game what are we going with today”

But it was generating discussion and idk why you decided to close that down early by outing it

if you think i'm gonna let you have the joy of toying with me like that, dude

what you been smoking

Yes but at that point it’s no longer about you and me so much as it’s about how everyone else reacts to it

Esp as it was a v believable claim based on the public setup information which implies that there are neighbourhoods/masonries/neighbouriser in the game

[Menalque]

I also think you nisunderstanding what I’m saying in a hyperbolic way is scummy fwiw

why is sarcasm scummy tho

Why are you engaging with this and not the rest of my post?

But hyperbole is scummy because it’s often a scum tactic to discredit what the person is saying. It’s reductio ad absurdum — instead of dealing with the actual reasons I said you’re scummy, you scale it to “mena is saying you can’t change stances or flip your reads or you’re scum” which is clearly a bonkers thing to say and undermines my (very valid) actual reasons for why I think you’re scum

Wanna respond to this now

[Menalque]

Some people think I’m yoinkers

[Menalque]

But I just think I’m free
Man I’m just livin my life there’s nothin crazy bout me

[Menalque]

err, what's the logic behind it? just the "burden of proficiency" thing?

Also respond to this from datisi

[Menalque]

That’s really barely saying anything at all.

Yes, sometimes the consensus is correct. That doesn’t give you carte blanche to justify whatever shift of your reads that you like. I want to see what the thought process was behind you deciding that instead of being likely TvS you decided it was likely TvT. I want to know why, after calling me town/townpings several times you immediately came out with “hmmm maybe mena is scum” the second I so much as breathed in your direction.

[Menalque]

menal shading me for my personality (sarcastic behaviour) isn’t a valid train of logic because it’s not AI for me

Just because something is part of someone’s behaviour also doesn’t make that not dubious in a game context. If someone is a compulsive liar as part of their RL personality and they compulsively lie in game, that doesn’t make their continuous lying less scummy. Scum tactic is a scum tactic

[Menalque]

secondly menal doesn't really articulate the point of scum!noraa and just says they're playing in a agenda way

Where did I say this

[Menalque]

Note to self do not reconsider my reads or change my stances ever again.

Note to self do not townread people.

also how am I pocketing you if I now think you're scum

That’s... not what was said? There’s nothing wrong with changing stances/reads nor did I say there was. But there needs to be evidence of a thought process there to back that up and I don’t see it with you, I just see you changing your reads to suit the situation.

I also think you nisunderstanding what I’m saying in a hyperbolic way is scummy fwiw

All of your initial posting is about how I’m townpinging you or towny for this or that, agreeing with my takes etc. Then the moment I start putting pressure on you suddenly all that vanishes and I’m prob!scum?

Also respond to the rest of this. You cherrypicked the part about you being hyperbolic to avoid responding to the other reasons why I think you’re scum.

[Menalque]

@513 okay where are the posts that you reread that made you reconsider? Should be pretty easy to find if it’s true!

I’m not trying to shade you, I’m outright calling you scum and saying I think you need to die today. I’m talking to you to give you an opportunity to show me I’m wrong in the case that you’re town. So far you’re being avoidant and dodging questions which is not doing anything to make me doubt my SR on you

[Menalque]

like

im overdefensive of myself + play very bad under pressure

so i think i just triggered that again
yeah you're townpinging because the Voices of my Gut deem you town but im trying to re-evaluate

I don’t remember this but I’ll reread your towngame again

I do think that as scum you’re pretty capable under pressure as seen in the two games where you beat ducky

[Menalque]

Holy fuck how many pages did I miss?

Like 10 or something

Whats your read on shelly?

[Menalque]

Okay sleep well, I will be chasing you up for answers next time you’re online

[Menalque]

okay here's where were at now

Mena - town
Datisi - townread
TGP - strong town lean
bob, alonzo - town lean
Icon
BM - nulltown BUT if noraa is scum moves up to same level as TGP

Teacher - null
iaaun

pii - scumlean
noraa -- down here but I haven't actually reread her posts to try to deal with the question of newb!town or newb!scum, willing to listen to other takes on this, rn I'm happy to go with my initial impressions
Taylor - scum
shelly

[Menalque]

I gotta run chicos, TGP could you please take a closer look at shelly's posting while I'm gone and maybe throw a vote down there if you see the same vacuousness and lack of conviction that I think I'm seeing

[Menalque]

Where were you when club penguin die?

I was at home when phone ring

Club penguin is kil

No

Oh shit i need one more post

votecount 1.3

Alonzo (0) :

Tayl0r Swift (1) : Shellyc

TheGoldenParadox (2) : Iconeum ; Noraa

Iconeum (1) : piisirrational

iamausername (0) :

Datisi (0) :

teacher (0) :

Battle Mage (0) :

piisirrational (1) : bob3141

bob3141 (2) : Alonzo ; iamausername

shellyc (4) : Tayl0r Swift ; Menalque ; Datisi ; TheGoldenParadox

Exe-3

Noraa (0) :

Menalque (2) : Teacher ; Battle Mage

Not Voting (0) :

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to yeet someone, the day will end in (expired on 2020-10-05 14:15:57)

Random fact : An Alcohol flood happened in Dublin in 1875, 13 peoples died during that flood, all of alcohol poisoning

Posts like these = absolutely my favourite reason for playing in games with first time mods

[Menalque]

So look to Menalque, and Menalque alone, on that one

You mean the fakeclaim? Why would real masons/neighbours feel any need to CC me?

[Menalque]

I skimmed earlier while my friend went to the loo mid drinking session and while BM’s posts didn’t really do anything for me alignment-wise they did remind me of why I enjoyed reading his posts in the previous games of his that I’ve seen

[Menalque]

Datisi - townread

a promotion?

Yes I am now townbinning you don’t be scum pls

[Menalque]

Datisi - Why wouldn't Shelly rolefish there? Seems perfectly reasonable to me - I did the same thing. Which leads me to my next question - why only single her out?

funny story, that's The One Thing that was bothering me about you in 455

and because it can lead to unnecessarily outing TPRs?

I think you've got it twisted fella. Falsely claiming a TPR can unnecessarily out a TPR. So look to Menalque, and Menalque alone, on that one. Ok, and slightly Ico for taking a while to deny it.

Once the claim had been made, it was completely sensible to try to resolve what the fk it meant. That's just trying to solve the game innit.

can i call in the meta argument of "i have seen town!mena do this and while i might have feelings about it i'm aware it's not AI for him"?

And what might those feelings be hmmmmmm

[Menalque]

I dislike this. I'm not super down on the gambit, but I think using it to shade Ico is not good. Basically feels like you running that play set him up to fail however he reacted. I think he probably took the least scummy approach by being honest about it, although really whatever he did, you could have framed it negatively.

Is this not somewhat undermined by the fact that in spite of me disliking icon ruining my gambit I still think he’s town more likely than not?

[Menalque]

pedit: lol
that's very appreciated
except w h y ?

Is u being cute not enough of a reason

[Menalque]

I don’t think you would betray my fragile heart by rolling scum this game datisi

[Menalque]

And what might those feelings be hmmmmmm

my feelings are that it's very fucking dumb, especially if the person bites the bait and claims their role (which did happen at least once so don't give me the "but nobody would--") <3

But nobody would do that datisi!

Imagine if I’d claimed masons

Who, in their right mind, in a semi open setup for instance, would decide to counterclaim me in that scenario???!

[Menalque]

please don't drink anymore tonight okay

I won’t drink any

more

but the damage is done

[Menalque]

Can I not call u cute in game

[Menalque]

Okay maybe datisi is scum i don’t think she’d steal my pagetops if she were town

[Menalque]

Can I not call u cute in game

pocket attempt denied

I will pocket u irl

[Menalque]

you're asking Datisi right? As that was his assertion.

Bruh I honestly have no idea who that was to

You can answer, datisi can answer m, it’s all good

[Menalque]

I kinda wish I was high rn because then I’d be feeling even more lovey but this is a v chill p-list which is why I /in’d despite my new rule of only playing one game at a time

[Menalque]

I dislike this. I'm not super down on the gambit, but I think using it to shade Ico is not good. Basically feels like you running that play set him up to fail however he reacted. I think he probably took the least scummy approach by being honest about it, although really whatever he did, you could have framed it negatively.

Is this not somewhat undermined by the fact that in spite of me disliking icon ruining my gambit I still think he’s town more likely than not?

it would have been, if that's what had happened. Unfortunately, it's difficult to re-write history in the battlegrounds of FORUM MAFIA.

I literally don’t understand this post

Like that is what happened no? That I didn’t end up shading icon for it and TR him instead? Or TL’d or whatever

[Menalque]

sup

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alonzo why are you scum reading me ?

[Menalque]

you think mena and bob are scum together?

I think both are good fits for mages partner.

specifically here

[Menalque]

Falsely claiming a TPR can unnecessarily out a TPR. So look to Menalque, and Menalque alone, on that one.

dude even if there are neighbours they're never going to out themselves on the basis of someone claiming neighbours with

someone else entirely

it's like the safest claim you can make in terms of not outing, it's not like claiming cop or something

[Menalque]

It's an MVP performance here so far. Not sure what means for alignment though.

have you like, played with icon much at all?

[Menalque]

also BM why not vote shelly?

[Menalque]

mental note to reply to that tomorrow

now bye i need sleep

also in the games with ducky, it's quite notable that almost 0 votes were placed on me.

sup kiddos, I am back for menal’s questioning

haven’t read those 6 pages tho

so what happened to this then shelly

[Menalque]

Note to self do not reconsider my reads or change my stances ever again.

Note to self do not townread people.

also how am I pocketing you if I now think you're scum

That’s... not what was said? There’s nothing wrong with changing stances/reads nor did I say there was. But there needs to be evidence of a thought process there to back that up and I don’t see it with you, I just see you changing your reads to suit the situation.

I also think you nisunderstanding what I’m saying in a hyperbolic way is scummy fwiw

All of your initial posting is about how I’m townpinging you or towny for this or that, agreeing with my takes etc. Then the moment I start putting pressure on you suddenly all that vanishes and I’m prob!scum?

Also respond to the rest of this. You cherrypicked the part about you being hyperbolic to avoid responding to the other reasons why I think you’re scum.

@513 okay where are the posts that you reread that made you reconsider? Should be pretty easy to find if it’s true!

I’m not trying to shade you, I’m outright calling you scum and saying I think you need to die today. I’m talking to you to give you an opportunity to show me I’m wrong in the case that you’re town. So far you’re being avoidant and dodging questions which is not doing anything to make me doubt my SR on you

second request that you respond to this @shelly

[Menalque]

is pii getting replaced?

[Menalque]

[psychic yelling at skitter]

[Menalque]

dats can you give me like a rough idea of what's happened in the last day or so?

[Menalque]

my impression is that icon/shelly/BM pushing TGP for [reasons]

shelly wagon stagnant and bob has moved onto it (but recently as he's not there on last VC)

[Menalque]

I still think pretty strongly that shelly is scum and think it is important that we start coalescing around a flip there

[Menalque]

Ugh, I just tried Dat's ISO, and just cant. Theres like too many in the moment conversations and Im not seeing a thread.

Mena/Dat, can you talk about your reads on each other? Like the friendship is blurring the tone for me maybe.

I have given up on overthinking datisi's alignment is the long and short of it and am now purely reading her on gut impressions and how I feel about the way she's interacting with me

she has pocketed me before doing this in the Smuggler's Port large game but honestly I'm just rolling with it as it makes playing with her much more pleasant and we've stopped having "hEy YoU'Re nOt oBvTowNiNg tHiS gAmE aRe yUo ScUm?" "yOu dOn'T kNoW hOw tO rEaD mE" shitfights every game which is just a life win that seems to be making no difference to actual performance in games

[Menalque]

have you been asking people to vote shelly or just pressuring her on what she's been doing/saying?

[Menalque]

¹me changing reads to fit the situation is my general town play really
as town I have much lower confidence in myself

²also, to the points that made me reconsider, things like the reaction to ico outing the fake was kinda artificial? the push on me for essentially swimming with the tide isn’t exactly town pinging either

(1) okay but this means literally nothing? also you don't have enough town games for this to be verifiable even on a meta level

(2) okay but this wasn't just about me and your read on me, the main bit was also about the change in your read from TvS in bm/noraa to TvT, something you ought to know if you'd checked the context of the question

[Menalque]

I still think pretty strongly that shelly is scum and think it is important that we start coalescing around a flip there

you say the wagon is moving slowly, when much of the plist are scum reading me for apparently reasons that im swimming with the tide when ANYONE THAT PAYS ATTENTION TO MY META AT ALL can realise that this is my towngame

have you finished another town game since your last one?

[Menalque]

like yelling "THIS IS MY TOWNGAME" does exactly nothing to convince me this is your towngame

like what, you want me to believe that scum!you isn't capable of yelling that?

and to the second point: yes, of course I can see a world in which you're town, I just don't see that as likely. I can see a world in which anyone is town or scum at this point apart from myself

[Menalque]

do you think creating town blocks are AI?

not to steal from TGP the chance to respond but: yes. trying to create townblocs is scum indicative

[Menalque]

it's a bit too early in the day imo (with not everyone even giving concrete reads) plus i still wanna reread isos

yeah okay, fair. I would like everyone to give reads before we end day but I'm pretty happy with at least getting shelly up to L-1 and getting a claim or not

[Menalque]

bob are you already voting shelly?

[Menalque]

mena give me motivation for this game pls

do you want triangle

Y E S

[Menalque]

Just take my word

I literally spent time thinking about it and its not my obligation to throw out all my thought processes
bmvNoraa might be TvT because noraa is a very inexperienced player and noraa might be caught in a tunnel I want to entertain counterfactuals and you’re currently scum reading me for it

(1) no? why would I just take your word for it when I think you're probscum and therefore your wincon literally requires you to lie about this?

(2) I mean I can't force you to but if your defence is that "I just decided that I was prob wrong and that it would be better to go with consensus than trust my own reads" then... uhh yes it's suspicious if upon being pressed you don't/can't go into any more detail about what in particular changed your mind around that situation

[Menalque]

“haven’t asked anyone to vote there”
which is more like scum posturing around my green flip

since you could say hey I didn’t want that to be the vote, I didn’t want to ask others to wagon on
spitballing my ideas

this is... not really relevant I don't think? I wanted to know if you weren't picking up votes in spite of someone actively asking for more votes on you or not. I feel like you're making more of datisi answering that question than makes sense

[Menalque]

pedit what’s a town triangle

it's Datisi's Town-Scum-Ahh-Fuck-I-Don't-Know Reads Triangle (patent pending)

it displays her reads but also her levels of certainty in her reads

[Menalque]

okay but you keep talking about this in very general terms

[Menalque]

what I want is

hang on

[Menalque]

woah y'all are way too energetic

stop starting games at 4am. smh

VOTE: Noraa
52 lamisty, arguments to attack BM seem very artificial and forced, very fence-sitty play for example 130

dont concur with the read as BM as scum theatre though; will reread as at first glace VT claim is pretty realistic?

town vibes from menal + datisi, relaxed opening + attempts to solve BMvNoraa so townpoints to that

you want me to vote for BM or noraa? no. i think theyre both prolly town. there are no other wagons, its an rvs vote. once everyone has posted then maybe ill have a legit scumread.

fence-sitty and trying to shrug off this interaction as TvT looks quite the scum move here

idrt BM would bus in that position and since i feel noraa is scum BM is probably townie

getting heavy gut townpings from menal

im beginning to think that noraas just being LHF and we should all think about the possibility of BMvNoraa as TvT

I want to know which concrete posts or sequences of posts led you from 244 to 275

[Menalque]

Spoiler:

I want to say shelly voting me for reasons she knows very well don't apply since that is my play style means she is scum. However I'm fairly certain she would prolly try to kill off a LHF even as town. So that is making my read on her a bit wonky. Unlike the rest of the playerlist, shelly and Taylor do know pretty well that this is precisely my playstyle aorn

I was scum with shelly my first game of mafia

and i'm looking at BM as a potential scumpartner.

This is a spicy take, you think BM would bus right out of the gate on page 2?

Also, yeah, sorry about the posting frequency I will be trying to dial it down, just gimme some leeway for the first day or so I’m v excited by this PL and that’s running through a bit

all good! yeah i haven't been on the site in a while and don't have personal experience with anyone here i don't think; but i do think that scum opening with straight bussing on page 2 is reasonable and not completely irration
bussing is one of those things that you can WIFOM the hell out of though so i'll have to wait and see

side note: i've been reading the wiki to get up to speed on all the hip new sayings - has LyLo been replaced by ELo in its entirety or is LyLo still pretty commonly used?

I've heard people say wifom and Lylo tho I have no idea what they mean

PAGE TOPPP

I've heard people say wifom and Lylo tho I have no idea what they mean

You would do well to read the mafiascum(dot)net wiki

But basically:

Wifom = taking suboptimal decisions on the basis that it makes you look scummy and scum wouldn’t want to look scummy, therefore making the person taking those actions towny. Named after the scene in the princess bride where the sicilian has to decide which cup of wine is poisoned

Lylo-gylo-elo: the make or break scenario — where town outnumbers scum by only one player and failing to correctly guillotíne a scumteam player gives them equality in numbers and results in a scum victory

hmm I'll read the wiki but what I take from that is that wifom is basically tstbs?

I think the best illustration of wifom from the wiki is the following:

Imagine a criminal is being chased by a community justice vigilante. The criminal arrives at a fork where he can turn either into a dark alley or head into a Main Street that’s well lit. If he heads into the dark alley, he has a 50/50 chance of being caught should the vigilante pursue him. If he heads into the Main Street there’s a 100% chance he’ll be caught if followed.

The ‘optimal’ choice is the alley because even if you’re followed you still have a chance to get away. But if you know that the community justice vigilante knows that that’s the optimal choice for you as well, you might want to head into the Main Street instead because you believe they’ll chase down the dark alley when they get to the fork.

More like TSTBS can be a deliberate WIFOM strategy from scum. But that’s it’s own thing because town can definitely just be TSTBS accidentally

hmmm okee thnx for the explanation

as you're on mobile and can't quote I've done it for you. here's every post noraa made between those two reads. what here made you entirely reconsider your read on her?

[Menalque]

because to me those posts are deeply NAI and I don't understand how you looking at them led to the reevaluation that you're claiming

and that's why I think you're scum, and you inability/unwillingness to be cooperative about trying to explain what happened with your thoughts here is only adding to that, and that's why we should flip you today

[Menalque]

okay, I'm going to have a think about this but my initial impression is still that I don't think it's adding up, and that you're changing your reads to keep them inline with general trends in the gamestate and are having difficulty explaining how you established certain reads or are giving very vague answers which allow you avoid responsibility or elaborating on what you precisely believed at certain points

I think that's it in terms of questions for you rn, I don't think there's anything fruitful to ask you further and I think it will just spam the thread up

thanks for responding tho

[Menalque]

creating townblocs is generally helpful for town, but it's more helpful for scum if those townblocs are forced, which this looks like to me. moreover, scum infiltrating a townbloc is much better for scum than the townbloc is for town, so i'm inclined to agree with menalque here.

here's where we disagree -- I think townblocs are good for town. I think creating/trying to create townblocs tends to be something scum are more interested in because it allows them to infiltrate or otherwise manipulate those townblocs. when they form naturally between a group of players I'm a big fan!

[Menalque]

just so we're all clear that's

E-1

[Menalque]

I'm Churros

*waves*

it's nice to have you

[Menalque]

Try to correct my bad english grammar because I'll be using english for something in my private life

always so mysterious, bunno

I can spoiler tag English stuff if you like to avoid it intruding too much into the main thread?

[Menalque]

alonzo why are you scum reading me ?

you think mena and bob are scum together?

I think both are good fits for mages partner.

specifically here

alonzo can you answer this please, now that you're here

[Menalque]

I'm going to go ahead and make a prediction on what bunno will think my alignment is this game

bunno will think that I am

Spoiler:

scum

[Menalque]

I'm not mysterious though

the multiple accounts? the disappearing and reappearing form the site at random intervals (despite being very competent when here)? the vaguely worded comments about RL?

very mysterious *nods sagely*

[Menalque]

I'm going to go ahead and make a prediction on what bunno will think my alignment is this game

bunno will think that I am

Spoiler:

scum

Why? You think you've been playing to your scum meta?

hey, this is no fun, you were meant to do your catch-up first before you saw this

[Menalque]

actually, noraa has reminded me -- TGP what do you make of icon's push on you?

[Menalque]

is alonzo a looker alt by any chance

[Menalque]

you know ico isn't British right

anyway mornings are more his thing

[Menalque]

I think bunno makes sense as scum with exactly noraa, should noraa flip scum later this game

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other than that I feel sort of conflicted in that generally I like bunno's takes and I think they're broadly at a similar place to me but equally I know their scum game and the paranoia is sitting lightly in my stomach

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tell you what, I'll give you the answer if you explain what's up with your read on me?

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also, wanted to make a couple of remarks on bunno for anyone unfamiliar:

bunno is a *very, very competent player*. he's a strong town player, but an exceptionally good scum player -- he's one of the only people I can think of who fully snowed town!RC for an entire game and then won that game. I've played scum with him and he's very good at presence, strategy, and tone. idk if he views my towngame as enough of a threat to eliminate me N1 if he's scum vs just pocketing me, but I wanted this out there. I also wouldn't clear him via bussing, but I would say that if you get to lylo and he hasn't led on scum (and I mean led, not joined a scum wagon late) you should be *very, very, very* wary of him

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also, i genuinely smiled when i was typing 452 and thinking how i'm actually scumreading shelly, only to see him vote her in pedits.

were you on mobile ooi?

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it is almost two am, why did this take so long, i want to cry
IS THIS ENOUGH COLOURS?

it's very nice and pretty but it needs more cowbell

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iirc, scum!him also doesn't go "yeah dats is lit just town lol"

until this game muahahahahaha

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at that time, i was not, why?

ahh, ya know, just paranoia things

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like the fact that my vote came 6 mins before that and so I was wondering whether it really took you 6 mins to make that post and saw my thing in the pedits or if I'm being pocketed and you're faking a mind meld with me *upside down smiley*

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edit2: hmm. am i the only one here thinking 832 *really* isn't a post to townread someone over?

no

it's an effort-y post in that it's long but it's also the type of thing that makes my eyes glaze over and which prob could have had the same effect in 1/4 of the word count making me think it's at least partly a performative post

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Don't comment on replacements either (I kinda broke it early but...)

I'm p sure this is mod-by-mod not sitewide

also didn't know about the scumclaiming one

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bunno I would like you to talk more about shelly and what the good!posting is before I consider joining you on Taylor

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oh I was actually writing that before I saw the pedit but it's great when things work out

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daddy

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wo ist teacher?

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Spoiler: eng

one snack

s

says more than one hundred words

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yeah, i'm pocketing you by faking a mindmeld

I fuckin knew it

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I think you're underestimating how comfortable shelly is as scum and how high energy she is too

if that's an important part of your read on her I suggest you jettison it, meta her, and realise that her being engaged with the game/being happy to draw attention onto herself is absolutely not a town tell and she's fully competent enough to do that as scum

also, I don't think there was really any distrust between dats and me early game?

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Basically menalque, when I caught up with the game you had some good and bad posts from my perspective, so I didn't immediately townlean you, however as pieces have shifted you've risen up in the polls.

I'm v confused am I not a scum read of yours along with BM and someone else?

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llama

I don't understand the reference?

it llama the atención

Spoiler:

it's the l-word you mentioned avoiding in your rules update post

also yw on the eng thing

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it's less tiresome doing corrections now that I'm not doing that at work, at least for a while

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ehh I didn't really read it that way, I think like maybe 1-2 slots made an offhand comment on our early interaction?

okay I'm upgrading bunno to could be scum with noraa or shelly

other than that null-to-town

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You guys keep thinking I use sensible tactics as scum like directly defending partners

if anything that's the counterintuitive strategy from someone presumed competent as scum

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but then we're getting into wifom anyway

I feel like I have a slightly better handle on your scumgame compared to most but I don't think I'd ever catch you D1