Mini Normal 2169 : random facts, game over !

[shellyc]

woah y'all are way too energetic

stop starting games at 4am. smh

VOTE: Noraa
52 lamisty, arguments to attack BM seem very artificial and forced, very fence-sitty play for example 130

dont concur with the read as BM as scum theatre though; will reread as at first glace VT claim is pretty realistic?

town vibes from menal + datisi, relaxed opening + attempts to solve BMvNoraa so townpoints to that

[shellyc]

you want me to vote for BM or noraa? no. i think theyre both prolly town. there are no other wagons, its an rvs vote. once everyone has posted then maybe ill have a legit scumread.

fence-sitty and trying to shrug off this interaction as TvT looks quite the scum move here

[shellyc]

Serious thoughts on icon reading our PT and not responding to me in it especially after he specifically asked me to play in this game?

@Menalque is the PT claim a meme or actual claim

[shellyc]

Okay, let’s talk about this

Why do you think it isn’t scummy to catch up, give opinions on posts made by two players involved in prob the most significant relationship thus far in the game, and then essentially avoid that by sweeping it aside and calling it TvT after making posts that /do/ imply that you have opinions on the slots

why is this miraculously the next thing I was going to post

so +townpoints to that

[shellyc]

-I'm townleaning BM a bit because most of his posts are things I'd more likely see coming from town!BM than scum!BM. Just a gut feeling at the moment. Could change though.

this sounds like super forced?

piirational / taylor / noraa is this actually the solve

pedit: don't worry the pockets are comfortable

[shellyc]

gamblers fallacy LMAOOO

i have no idea how i roll scum that much

pedit: idk i dont see BM as very very confident at this stage? I think thats null even if you think BM's being confident as it's probs playstyle

[shellyc]

idrt BM would bus in that position and since i feel noraa is scum BM is probably townie

[shellyc]

lylo = limlo, xylo
still kinda regularly used from what ive seen
wifom is harder to explain you might wanna read the wiki page

I'll reread BM because I didnt get the confident vibes at all

[shellyc]

So I guess: possible, but unlikely is my stance on the v early hardbus

it's viable but I think noraa comes off as more insincere than BM from the interaction so im townlean on BM, also my gut townpings

[shellyc]

can you elaborate on what exactly makes you think that though?

I think saying tvt on the major conflict is quite fence-sitty but waiting for an elaboration

[shellyc]

the voices of my gut tell me it's forced

[shellyc]

getting heavy gut townpings from menal

im beginning to think that noraas just being LHF and we should all think about the possibility of BMvNoraa as TvT

[shellyc]

also unintentional pagetop

[shellyc]

Bob definitely steers clear of the whole NoraavBM thing which def makes him look super scummy there. Even taking a stance and choosing the one that's not a noob seems less scummy in this case since not taking a stance just looks like he wants to be on everyone's good side. Generally town couldn't care less if u dislike them.

I don't have a strong opinion on this dude. He seems to low-key sheep BM a lil in trying to set this LHF up. However if BM is scum, Bob isn't and vice versa bc I cannot see a world where both are scum

this is kinda fence-sitty opinion
alonzo's unafraidness to go against the grain with his bob read reads town. true that scum would hang out in the shadows with a TvT conflict.

[shellyc]

Shelley/anyone with experience -- is this third person speaking typical?

uh havent seen them do that before

[shellyc]

She was my scum partner in my very first game of mafia

I keep using that line. (especially as scum)

[shellyc]

I thinK BM's early VT claim leans town, as it limits scum!BM's ability to fakeclaim a PR to draw out PRs

teacher, whats your read on menal aorn?

[shellyc]

I found Alonzo and Taylor's entries to be the pingiest. Alonzo with a naked vote and then absence, only to call TvT and foist a weak/obviously disprovable vote on Menalque (a slot that had been FoSed by enough to be a potential wagon). Taylor for the lack of an RVS, then perhaps TMI-shade, which she didnt even follow through on.

alonzo's reads null, but I concur with the taylor ping a lot. teacher gut townlean + catchup logic was easy to follow

hi iconeum, ive seen the name but probably never played with you

whats your take on BMvnoraa

[shellyc]

i like bob's takes here

care to elaborate?

dont think it townpings

[shellyc]

despite noraa having (what i consider) bad insights, i don't think they come from a scummy mindset

why do you think bad insights come from a town mindset

I don't really see town!noraa directly approaching BM, noraa is trying to shade BM NOT solve them, how is that a townie mindset

[shellyc]

@icon can you confirm you're in a hood

pedit: thats exactly why I think noraa is scummy: they try and shade people with incorrect logic instead of trying to solve

[shellyc]

omgus tunnel is anti-town no matter what
noraa ended up lockscum on BM and how does town have that kind of confidence

[shellyc]

@noraa do you have any offsite towngames I can read

[shellyc]

@icon can you confirm you're in a hood

don't miss this

pedit: ok we'll agree to disagree

[shellyc]

why are you still dodging the question

VOTE: Iconeum

will this make you answer this

[shellyc]

trying to softpocket both bm and noraa is Interesting

[shellyc]

hmmmmmm ok

looking at 195 (since I didn't see it earlier), seems quite fence-sitty trying to call the scumteam and then saying it's not a read lol

[shellyc]

yay someone else finds taylor scumpingy

hot take taylor is more likely to be scum than (noraa, BM)

[shellyc]

i pocket people by fighting them

Cool. I call that Anti-Charisma and I use it.

[shellyc]

Can you explain datisi read since i dont think anything especially pings upon PBPA

[shellyc]

iconeum when are you getting back to 340

[shellyc]

then i wanna pressure this slot

opening pings me so much
VOTE: Taylor

[shellyc]

VOTE: shelly

i dont like that menal and datisi townread each other and then proceed to put themselves on opposing sides of what seems at this point to be a TvT shitfight.

random vote on me??
shade on menal + dats and try to be the rational mediator in the noraavBM fight

i thought he was vaguely +town for the mindmeld about noraa

I would agree that if noraa is scum then he’s just arrogant, but I think he’s posting in a fairly agenda-y way (the push on noraa but also trying to leave room to pivot in my direction, advancing support for the opposite-neighbours thing but wanting to flip me first and only then icon)

from my limited experience with / knowledge of BM, i thought he was arrogant regardless of alignment

i'm not sure i see (scummy) agenda in his posts about noraa? also uhh, i kinda didn't take his read on you as serious

pedit: sighhh
taylor, (1) obligatory why vote shelly, (2) why do you dislike that?

well its just strange that out of the four people who had been active to that point, one pair townread each other, another pair scumread each other and crossvoted, and then the first pair hopped on opposing sides of the wagons. was odd. by the time i posted, menal corrected it.

i still think thats probably TvT though

insisting on TvT for no reason? TMI??

[shellyc]

Actually maybe Taylor should be a scumlean based on that vote

you want me to vote for BM or noraa? no. i think theyre both prolly town. there are no other wagons, its an rvs vote. once everyone has posted then maybe ill have a legit scumread.

fence-sitting on BMvNoraa and justifying vote on me as RVS (despite us leaving RVS)

[shellyc]

hmmmmmmm that's a decent case, 227 is very fence-sitty

still harder gut + opening scumpings on taylor

another slot I feel uneasy about is piisrational - a huge IIoA wall and weirdly townleaning taylor + scumlean menal

@menal can you elaborate on the hood things
I gut TR menalque + I see actual attempts to solve noraa and BM

[shellyc]

I don't think reading me and Noraa as both being town is scum-indicative for Taylor. I'd be pretty surprised if a few people didn't take that position. Often, but not always the case, mathematically and empirically speaking. I generally think you're overplaying your hand so far, although maybe you're trying to emulate me?

the way that taylor conveys it's TvT without much explanation sounds like TMI.

[shellyc]

BM whats your read on taylor?

[shellyc]

no im not answering for menal, i saw it being brought up

still wanna hear an elaboration from taylor regarding that read because it isnt well explained
like ico spent ages trying to discover the TvT-ness of that conflict and I buy it

pedit: meta is trash

[shellyc]

who's in the hood alongside menalque? only 2p hood?

[shellyc]

hmmmmmm okay

BM can you link the taylor game? I am up for some reading tonight

[shellyc]

To be clear, I'm currently completely uninterested in a Day 1 Taylor-elim. In the nicest possible way, if she's scum, we'll know sooner rather than later. I don't see it yet on your logic.

whats the alternative you propose then?

besides, do you still scumread / scumlean noraa considering they could be omgusing newbtown

[shellyc]

how is it +scum EV to fakeclaim neighbour? when it's proven fake it creates /more/ pressure on menal

[shellyc]

what do you mean when you say fence-sitty? like taking a stance on a conflict is... the opposite of that?

ok maybe i phrased it wrong

I'll call it afraid to call people out? if you get what i mean

[shellyc]

Yeh, I don’t think reading it as TvT is /necessarily/ scum!indicative. I /do/ think that saying you think it’s TvT and then voting a slot completely unrelated to anything that’s happened so far in the game is, and I do think it’s /somewhat/ scum indicative to say it’s TvT after some of the posts Taylor made catching up

the word "somewhat" kinda pings as FENCE-SITTING.

this is the correct implementation of the word

[shellyc]

that stream of logic is easy to follow from datisi and the way they articulate their thoughts are geniune and pretty indicative of a solving mindset? so +townpoints to datisi

[shellyc]

VOTE: shelly

HMMMMMMMMM
what if menal is scum

[shellyc]

menal care to explain the naked vote?

2020 join date misusing a term isnt that unexpected

[shellyc]

burden of proficiency

[shellyc]

Note to self do not reconsider my reads or change my stances ever again.

Note to self do not townread people.

also how am I pocketing you if I now think you're scum

[shellyc]

Ok heres some info for all who wish to scumread me
I keep rolling scum and i have almost forgotten how to play town.

[shellyc]

ico UTR is getting concerning at this point, makes me feel like theres pocketing scum in there

[shellyc]

So do you think menal is scum or not. Your earlier posts talk about a guy read on menal with later ones talking about how you think menal is fence sitting. If I'm reading post 431 correctly.


As menal does not appear to me to be fence-sitting in that post you quoted. It just looks like a fellow townie that has seen something that has two explanations and is trying to sort which is the more likely case.

So not exactly sure how you could go for gut town reading menal to entertaining the possibility of menal being scum.

So do you still believe in your gut menal town read?

My gut thinks menalque is town
Logic believes menalque is scum

the classic dilemma
I was trying to entertain counterfactuals for once (my weakness as either alignment) and I'm still trying to sort them

[shellyc]

I also think you nisunderstanding what I’m saying in a hyperbolic way is scummy fwiw

why is sarcasm scummy tho

[shellyc]

dats didn’t you concur with my teacher read though? contradiction

[shellyc]

- the play around you/mena claiming a PT felt a lot like rolefishing?
- also the "wow ico utr there is scum pocketing him" when like? how many people have expressed a townread on you? (i'll take this back if i missed other townreads on you because it's possible i did but also this isn't a huge point so you know)

?????

I didnt rolefish?
is this meant for ico

[shellyc]

who's townreading ico other than username and me?

I am, and iirc menal was at some point

[shellyc]

Im feeling a slight lean town lean on golden, as if golden was partnered with either of bm or noraa i just dont think he would come in and push the fresh idea that they are just scum getting in early bussing.

Especially after choosing to vote for the one with the largest wagon. Of the two players he has stated as being svs. And not only that but a fourth vote on the first wagon. An ice breaker often done by town.

however Golden also states a world in which BM is null and at the end of the day if Golden believes it's SvS why not vote for BM?

[shellyc]

"ico please confirm if you're in a pt" and voting him when he continued ignoring you about that felt very much like a rolefish

I want to hear explanations from people and I vote for them to pressure them into giving explanations

is that not valid

[shellyc]

i agreed with your conclusion (i.e. teacher townlean), i think the way you're getting there is scummy
one of teacher's posts (i think the last one) felt more fence-sitty than taylor's (note that i don't think fence-sitting is scum!indicative)
yet you were attacking taylor but townreadign teacher

can you elaborate

teachers last post shades taylor and alonzo. i dont think thats fence-sitting at all. he also states noraavBM is TvS which is an Opinion

also where did you get the teacher townpings then?

[shellyc]

yes I missed that

menal shading me for my personality (sarcastic behaviour) isn’t a valid train of logic because it’s not AI for me

your actual arguments is that I change stances and go with the flow but sometimes the consensus is correct and we can’t all have Hot Takes

[shellyc]

oh why am I missing so many things

firstly the BoP thing, secondly menal doesn't really articulate the point of scum!noraa and just says they're playing in a agenda way

[shellyc]

i'm saying the subject that you were pressing on is scummy

I interpreted that as my vote being scummy

you could see it as rolefish but idrt finding out about a neighbourhood is discovering some real amazing PR

[shellyc]

Yes, sometimes the consensus is correct. That doesn’t give you carte blanche to justify whatever shift of your reads that you like. I want to see what the thought process was behind you deciding that instead of being likely TvS you decided it was likely TvT. I want to know why, after calling me town/townpings several times you immediately came out with “hmmm maybe mena is scum” the second I so much as breathed in your direction.

Ok I reread things. I also reconsider things.

At first glance noraavsBM looked TvS because it kinda felt like noraas scumgame but noraa is consistently LHF so I was reconsidering + man ico is charismatic

the hmmm maybe menal is scum thing was also slightly exagerrated and the way you deflect that back onto me feels like youre shading me instead of trying to sort me. which is +scumpoints

i'll elaborate tomorrow but i need sleep now

[shellyc]

shelly i think you missed this too (response to 429 i think)

taylor could be scum with someone of {BM, Noraa} not ruling out TvS just yet

besides whats scum motivation for taylor to step into a tvt shitfight, they can just hang out in the shadows

[shellyc]

Note to self do not reconsider my reads or change my stances ever again.

Note to self do not townread people.

also how am I pocketing you if I now think you're scum

That’s... not what was said? There’s nothing wrong with changing stances/reads nor did I say there was. But there needs to be evidence of a thought process there to back that up and I don’t see it with you, I just see you changing your reads to suit the situation.

I also think you nisunderstanding what I’m saying in a hyperbolic way is scummy fwiw

All of your initial posting is about how I’m townpinging you or towny for this or that, agreeing with my takes etc. Then the moment I start putting pressure on you suddenly all that vanishes and I’m prob!scum?

Also respond to the rest of this. You cherrypicked the part about you being hyperbolic to avoid responding to the other reasons why I think you’re scum.

like im overdefensive of myself + play very bad under pressure so i think i just triggered that again
yeah you're townpinging because the Voices of my Gut deem you town but im trying to re-evaluate

[shellyc]

mental note to reply to that tomorrow

now bye i need sleep

also in the games with ducky, it's quite notable that almost 0 votes were placed on me.

[shellyc]

sup kiddos, I am back for menal’s questioning

haven’t read those 6 pages tho

[shellyc]

didn't vote for bm because i was more suspicious of noraa, there was already a noraa wagon (which allows actual pressure to be created), and nora was the hypocrite there and looked scummier to me. rn i think noraa is just newbie town, but being confident in bm!scum within the first day doesn't really scream town; noraa will stay at a light townread.

this is contradictory

how is someone “not screaming town” but “lightly townread”

[shellyc]

Idk if she's scum here but I'm somewhat certain she isn't here.

???????????

[shellyc]

uhh yeah this post scumpings hard wth
this is basically textbook manipulation VOTE: shelly

golden with this opportunistic wagon hopping

im not getting limmed today, you are

[shellyc]

cringey buddying yuck yuck yuck

idc, I feel like being liberal with TRs isn’t a scum tell

[shellyc]

ShellyC - Why pretend you didn't rolefish when you did? Worried about getting bad attention?

I dont consider what i did as rolefishing but i now see how it could be considered as rolefishing (asking someone to confirm the claim)

at the time i was pressuring ico to tell the truth so i could solve this hood mystery somehow

[shellyc]

you need a lawyer.

will you take the position?

[shellyc]

Yes I am now townbinning you don’t be scum pls

this seems like a very lazy townbin. can you elaborate menal?

[shellyc]

mmmm so I'm not too sure what I'm thinking about this game atm however I have a few things I dont like so far

BM changes votes far too often. I think this is scummy bc scums will flip flop a shit ton since what's going thru their mind is gonna be something like : "hmm good limbait here. ooo better limbait here. oh maybe the first limbait was better etc etc"

Not too sure if that's correct but uh ... that's how I am when I'm scum so yeah.

Datisi I am 100% certain is very much capable of producing content yet I am not seeing much content. I think that may be a scumtell for him tho I have never played a game with him before so I couldn't say.

Golden dude gives me some scumvibes bc of him changing his vote and moving it off of me and onto BM. It reads really scummy considering he somehow just overlooked the fact that I'm noob as hell but then realized it reading it again? Idk something's fishy over there.

Mena is .... meh. I'm not sure what alignment mena is but I wouldn't be surprised with either aorn.


everyone else is even more meh. talk more and maybe I'll try to solve u some more

why are you null / scumlean on almost everyone, this is scumpingy
also, you're "not too sure" about bm but apparently have that slot as lockscum? can you explain this trajcteory

[shellyc]

Saying "hot take, you're right, Golden dude is scum" is not in the least bit helpful. I couldn't care less whether or not scum!BM agrees with me.

its not helpful to have scumreads? really?

oraa can you stop confbiasing yourself for once and entertain counterfactuals.

[shellyc]

*noraa

I scumread noraa because of 613 and bleh overall i do not really see attempts to solve, i see attempts to shade
I scumread golden because of the logical lapse on judging noraa + I got gutpings when bm started pushing them
ping on piisrational's catchup post as IIoA + artificial reads
I scumread bob a bit as well. i dont like how their vote is still on RVS vote + ISO is devoid of actual content tbh
I TR alonzo teacher BM? datisi?
two more pages to go

[shellyc]

oh and I havent forgot my early taylor SR but they havent posted much since then

menal is a big null maybe townlean

[shellyc]

Hm good point. I could see a bm/mena and a bm/bob scumteam.
however I think bm is basically a confscum(at least in my head) which is why imma tunnel some more and hopefully get a good case on him bc I want a bm lim today

noraa's either confbiasing heavily as town (which is quite a low chance) or scum

one thing that pings me is how noraa's lockscum on bm yet has like 0 confidence in rest of the reads
which isnt very logical

[shellyc]

I SHALL NOT BE POCKETED SO EASIL-

fuck it

you got me

dont worry, you'll be in for a great ride
my pockets are the most comfy ones

Spoiler: Pocketing 101

man ico is charismatic

[shellyc]

it's more nuanced than that - you're over-simplifying. Being liberal with TRs isn't necessarily scummy, but the way you do it can be interpretted as such. Does that make sense?

yes professor

ico trying to reverse pocket me lol. taking all my stances

[shellyc]

no ico that’s not enticing at all

I feel ok with my Taylor vote aorn but will be happy to vote in {Noraa, Taylor, Golden, Bob}

[shellyc]

i didn't agree with some stuff you had, but i do like this. I don't have the scumread on bob, but share everything else.

one of the reasons I SR bob is because of the horrific “golden town noraa town” and I want them to elaborate on that

also general gutread + ISO is kinda filler-y +

Although if i'm wrong on nora being a fellow townie.

pings me as kinda trying to get out of jail if their partner goes down? idk

[shellyc]

Datisi whats your take on golden slot

lets

gamesolve

drive this post count up

[shellyc]

I TR alonzo teacher BM? datisi?

the Voices of my Gut are telling me you’re town

idk you actually want to seem to game solve without pushing an agenda + I think noraa saying that “you’re not solving” is kinda misrep?

[shellyc]

like Datisi actively wants to find logical inconsistencies by asking for people’s thoughts on things + has decent thought processes and reads upon looking at ISO

[shellyc]

daddy

[shellyc]

I meant when I looked at their ISO?

also datisis vibe when finding logical inconsistencies is +town AI since town has to get rid of scum and scum often make inconsistencies

[shellyc]

there's also several other things that have surfaced about noraaaaaaaaaaaa that i'm increasingly disliking, much with it's most recent post.

illogical conclusions, confbiasing, etc

ico I’ve been mulling about things
you and me are vibing with each others thoughts a lot
Datisi and menalque are vibing with each others thoughts a lot

idk what this means just putting this out

[shellyc]

who’s this noraaaaaaaa personality

p-edit: SHUSH ICO

[shellyc]

I was joking lol

yeah im kinda aware it’s a town block, just that im more emphasising on Datisi / menalque which could be a town block or a scum partnership

[shellyc]

why does my autocorrect capitalise Datisi out of everyone

also who is noraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I don’t see them in the plist

[shellyc]

i mainly like the generation of content datisi is doing, which is another point on why noraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa is becoming increasingly scummy imo. Not producing content, i'm not solving etc.

why do you think town!Datisi implies scum!noraa though
aren’t they mutually exclusive, ik about the shade but idrt using Datisi to judge noraa is a Very Good Idea

[shellyc]

you like dats content = TR (or at least TL) dats
which is another point on why noraaaaaaaaaaaaa is scum

don’t ya think you’re implying Datisi town = noraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa scum

[shellyc]

TheGoldenParadox/Noraa
piisirrational/Tayl0r Swift

that’s like a very decent PoE maybe bob belongs it but bleh

[shellyc]

that being said, shelly is looking worse and worse to me and feels like they're basically blindly following and supporting ico so i'm still inclined to keep my vote where it is

can you show where i blindly follow
if anything ico sheeped my readsdump and said they concurred with everything

[shellyc]

shelly youve scumread me in literally every single game we've been in together i think

no not all but you're still scum

[shellyc]

uhh yeah this post scumpings hard wth
this is basically textbook manipulation VOTE: shelly

golden with this opportunistic wagon hopping

im not getting limmed today, you are

I don't quite see what you mean by opportunistic wagon hopping. Golden comes in with a read that he thinks noraa vs bm is actually svs. So at the point of the nora vote he claims to have scum read on both. And then later he says that he sees Nora as newb town. When he moves his vote to the other player he player he scum read at that point.

And his 3rd vote to you. Do you see all the votes as opportunistic or just the one on you. As that's the vote with least progression before it aswell as the one you quoted.

What i dont get is why the first thing you would think of is that he is being opportunistic. Maybe if it had pushed to l-1 or giving intent on that small post. But l-3 does feel like bit of exaggeration when its only pushed you to l-3. A point its sat at for the last day.
his vote on me is scummy. not noraa vote
like idk it seems like it's not a logical or progressed thought, its just sheeping dats and menal and trying to hop onto and easy miselim
Forgetting that you claiming that you beleive the nature of his vot was opportunistic. what do you think of his read on you?

[shellyc]

Shelly do you still think both golden and nooraa are scum?

As your voting for taylor over two of your scum reads. Although you voted for taylor you did say you wanted to pressure her at the time. So what do you think of taylors catch up?

taylor worse than noraa and golden
i wanna believe that noraa is LHF

[shellyc]

I mean I do genuinely find you scummy in this position
I don’t really like “untunnel me stop constantly scumreading me”

I’ve also got pings on piirational

[shellyc]

still wanna hear an elaboration from taylor regarding that read because it isnt well explained
like ico spent ages trying to discover the TvT-ness of that conflict and I buy it

follow up on this

[shellyc]

does that mean that normally when you state a scumread on me it isnt genuine? which of piisirrational's four posts was particularly scummy to you?

no and 220’s just a bunch of IIoA and voting ico instead of voting for their SR (noraa menal)

[shellyc]

bm vs noraa is town vs town

[shellyc]

why do scum buddies even need to pocket each other tho
and why do I so blatantly pocket someone as scum
me + ico are a town circle, a very good thing

also preferably can we all call me shelly since tbh I kinda randomly added the c in my username to make it look less plain

[shellyc]

ico talk to me about golden, are you still scum reading them

[shellyc]

i'd switch Swifty for bob, got a gut town feel from her early postings and i've seen no reason to doubt it as yet, while bob has a major case of trying hard to look like he's doing something without actually doing anything.

i also wouldn't flip Noraa today, but i get where you're coming from in 753. i just feel like the possibility of her being scum still seems very unlikely to me.

can you explain why you wouldn’t flip noraa

[shellyc]

You bring a convincing argument to the table. I like it so in reply :
UNVOTE: BM

?????

this seems like super forced backtracking to look good for the cameras

[shellyc]

from what i know of shelly, she might be new but she isn't a newb

yay thanks

[shellyc]

shelly/ico/bm seems absolutely like a viable scumteam to me.

that is literally our town block lol

I kinda like bussing as well. I have several completed games you can look at

[shellyc]

that part of 220 comes off as not genuine according to the Voices of my Gut
it’s spitting out reads for the cameras

[shellyc]

ico talk to me about golden, are you still scum reading them

pedit: why?

[shellyc]

also daddy

[shellyc]

I also get hardcore town vibes from iamauser tbh

townread on BM is cool, read on bob is vibing with my thoughts, and the golden voting and progression is very townie

[shellyc]

929 is a fence-sitty* post to me because of “really sloppy” - seems to not want to take agency in their reads

*may be wrong usage of word

pedit: idk I kinda see newbtown vibes who have been doing things super wrong sometimes
but I 5D chess myself too much and noraa is just prob scum

[shellyc]

ico talk to me about golden, are you still scum reading them

[shellyc]

wagon on me I think golden/Taylor are on wagon scum but I kinda start doubting my Taylor read because of the Voices of my Gut
will revisit iso when I have time to high effort this, probably tomorrow night

[shellyc]

lhf = people shelly doesnt want you to wagon

such a textbook definition
it’s wrong tho, LHF is tasty

[shellyc]

I mean I like his progressions
ico who is in your PoE now if you think golden is nullish

[shellyc]

thoughts?

concur. I think noraa is the self aware type as either alignment tho
@noraa any offsite town games I can read?

[shellyc]

shelly why is this the only game in which ive seen you try to form a townbloc?

I may be new, but im no longer a newb

town blocks may be beneficial in some instances where I highly TR someone

[shellyc]

tentatively joining

I kinda feel slightly better on Taylor but nothing very concrete, its mainly gut

[shellyc]

apparently the case on me is “shelly doesn’t know the meaning of the word fence-sitting.

Datisi what’s your take on ico?

[shellyc]

why does noraa feel genuine and how is it linked to the claim tho

the claim and noraa is mutually exclusive

[shellyc]

second request that you respond to this @shelly

me changing reads to fit the situation is my general town play really
as town I have much lower confidence in myself

also, to the points that made me reconsider, things like the reaction to ico outing the fake was kinda artificial? the push on me for essentially swimming with the tide isn’t exactly town pinging either

[shellyc]

I still think pretty strongly that shelly is scum and think it is important that we start coalescing around a flip there

you say the wagon is moving slowly, when much of the plist are scum reading me for apparently reasons that im swimming with the tide when ANYONE THAT PAYS ATTENTION TO MY META AT ALL can realise that this is my towngame

[shellyc]

I still think pretty strongly that shelly is scum

do you see a world in which I am town

[shellyc]

basically all of shelly's posts on page 38 scumping me hard. i have absolutely no idea what she's trying to accomplish here but it seems a lot like she's spinning in circles and not going anywhere. the entire taylor push is weird, 943 is unhelpful and unproductive, and just generally shelly is pinging me as scum who wants to create a townbloc and sell herself as town, either by pocketing actual town or working with other scum to wifom us. i'm happy with my vote on shelly, and i think shelly is a good d1 lynch here because they have quite a few interactions with almost everyone here.

wifom. does. not. fucking. exist

can you elaborate on spinning in circles, where do you expect me to go
why do you think Taylor push is weird

do you think creating town blocks are AI?

you’re filling up spaces with words to try and miselim me

sure flip me for info but remember scum are probably on-wagon now as im pretty miselimable as town

[shellyc]

(1) okay but this means literally nothing? also you don't have enough town games for this to be verifiable even on a meta level

(2) okay but this wasn't just about me and your read on me, the main bit was also about the change in your read from TvS in bm/noraa to TvT, something you ought to know if you'd checked the context of the question

Just take my word

I literally spent time thinking about it and its not my obligation to throw out all my thought processes
bmvNoraa might be TvT because noraa is a very inexperienced player and noraa might be caught in a tunnel I want to entertain counterfactuals and you’re currently scum reading me for it

pedit: why? how is that even AI
pedit: ok fine get me to E-1, idm my flip really if you think info flip benefits the overall game state

[shellyc]

shelly can you explain the bold. Are you saying you changed your reads to suit your situation. As that doesnt sound like towny thing to do.

not my situation
the overall game state

[shellyc]

i haven't asked anyone to vote there, it's a bit too early in the day imo (with not everyone even giving concrete reads) plus i still wanna reread isos

listen if I get to flip today
this may be scum trying to encourage a town lim but not actually doing it

[shellyc]

“haven’t asked anyone to vote there”
which is more like scum posturing around my green flip

since you could say hey I didn’t want that to be the vote, I didn’t want to ask others to wagon on
spitballing my ideas

[shellyc]

you’re unfortunately wrong
and I suck at obvtowning, I don’t blame you

[shellyc]

When I said the word “situation” I meant the overall gamestate
which could mean whatever others have posted / interactions
of course I would change my mind based off that

[shellyc]

I mean like this
I didn’t want the wagon to go so fast or something

pedit what’s a town triangle

[shellyc]

situation = game-state
game-state changing = re-evaluation
why is re-evaluation scummy though

[shellyc]

ok I can go deeper
noraa starting a hard tunnel on BM is kinda town indicative in a way that it broke the game early out of RVS and actually created a whole bunch of interactions which is protown
Like their hyper focus on BM and BM only reads town because scum kinda has to posture around everyone

[shellyc]

im on mobile and cant quote things

[shellyc]

I read back on noraas iso and it just seemed like hyperfocusy on BM which is kinda a newb!town response since I think something in the newbie guide says only claim at E-1 so she interpreted it as anti town

also the way they tunnel doesn’t seem to be agenda-y, it just seems like misplaying town. its not between those posts, I reread the iso and decided that town!noraa was quite viable

[shellyc]

why are there like 30 fucking pages and can someone give me a tl;dr

also am I being asked to claim

[shellyc]

I AM A VANILLA TOWNIE

[shellyc]

people on the Taylor wagon are all probably town, I think Bunno is very townie. im fine with noraa lim today as well

ico give me a tl;dr

[shellyc]

Taylor counter wagon is very good can we put some effort into this wagon

I kinda think the lack of effort to sort Taylor from many fairly active slots reads that scum are now manipulating the game state and having the upper hand, hence the wagon on me

[shellyc]

noraa why the fuck are you on ico now???

Menalque ; Datisi ; TheGoldenParadox ; bob3141 ; Iconeum
I think {menal Datisi} and {golden bob} contain at least one scum within each bracket

Taylors weird flipout on me kinda reads scum trying to avoid being on a town lim

[shellyc]

I think there’s something. something wrong about the menal slot

doesn’t really think their posts are showing a really solve mindset and are instead parked on me

[shellyc]

but menal early pressured Taylor slot hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Datisi read triangle is meh, idrt its super similar to my points but I can follow where you’re coming from in all the reads

[shellyc]

fwiw, i'm not massively opposed to a shelly elim, but also dont want to rush anything when we have loads of time.

why are you asking for a claim if you said this

im just massively confused aorn about this gamestate but I can quite confidently say {Ico, Alonzo, Bunno, username} are townie

[shellyc]

Like I scumread Taylor, and pretty much am question marks on anyone not in those brackets, with heavier question marks on {menal golden bob Datisi?}

looking back I think the read triangle shades many people like teacher and username for fairly trivial reasons, and I think Townreading all of menal ico bob golden despite the conflicting sides basically paints everything into a TvT fight

[shellyc]

i've already talked about this. other thoughts are that her reads on both me and mena are fishy - town until we start suspecting her. and her reaction to me saying i hadn't asked anyone to vote her just seemed so over the top? and i feel like i can't follow a lot of their thought processes, plus the weird shade on people TRing ico while TRing ico. and calling meta trash when BM was using it to defend taylor but screaming about meta when mena is attacking her.

1. why do you think reads on menal and you are fishy though? I was already kinda pointing out that you two seemed to be in cohesion or something
2. I overreact too much
3. im trying to make myself less enigmatic by spitting my thoughts out

[shellyc]

u TR me then u throw shade on me. wtf.

im fine if someone wants to policy noraa but we should all lim Taylor

[shellyc]

bunno vs ico is probably another shitfight over logical fallacies instead of solving Taylor/me alignments
Bunno I’ve been consistently pushing Taylor and although I haven’t done a very very good job of articulating it and you’ve made a much more comprehensive casingtaylor is by far my strongest SR
I am also not noraa despite the avis

username talk to me about why you’re inclined to vote Taylor

pedit yes and I just claimed vt

[shellyc]

Why so flip floppy?

why is flip flopping a problem though, talk me through this

[shellyc]

no one thought there was anything wrong with BM when he was parked on me so I dont see anything wrong here either.

BM isn’t menal

BM isn’t menal and just because nobody scumreads menal for xxxxx doesn’t mean xxxxx is a valid scum tell. whats your take on menal then. BM at least tries to solve other slots which is evident from their ISO.

[shellyc]

Scum: Noraa, Menalque.

the moment when someone READS OTHER SLOTS and you say they do nothing.

noraa whats your read on Taylor? null or just townie

[shellyc]

why is flip flopping a problem though, talk me through this

@noraa

I kinda feel like if you’re town, your weakness is pretty much just tunnel visioning and vanity voting your biggest scumread. sometimes your vote needs to be on your biggest SR, but overall your vote should be a vote that helps town. and vanity voting isn’t helping to further anything, since we need to get an elimination in

pedit: hmmm then tell me why producing no content is not enough of a scum tell

[shellyc]

its not about you

its about Taylor producing 0 content

[shellyc]

since the wagon is gaining traction and now you’d be tomorrows lim when I flip VT

why are you flipping on me then

do you think both leading wagons are both town and the scum are active then by your train of thought

[shellyc]

Oh! Welp I also noticed she wasn't producing that much content but so?

do you not think not producing content is AI
if its not AI at least it’s definitely ANTI TOWN

[shellyc]

BM asked me to claim, not ico.

[shellyc]

holy fuck why is that every time I wake up there are 16 new pages

I seriously cant if this keeps up

[shellyc]

can we also note shelly's rather conspicuous absence from the thread through all this while she has been active elsewhere on site

im apathetic regarding this game and haven’t read in detail these 20 pages. I understand the info gained from a town!shelly flip and I don’t hate if I was todays lim.

Datisi claims to be scum reading shelly. But datisi also uses her vote to actively support the counter wagon to shelly which is the best way to disperse a wagon. Datisi claims to be town this game, but datisi has also claimed to be town in other games where she was scum. Who is datisi really? Can we really trust someone with a proven record of lying.

Vote Shelly today, and don't believe her lies!

This ad paid for by the Shelly Is Scum Let's Just Flip Her Campaign

sigh

Reads in order

Town:
Alonzo
Ico
Bunno
BM
username

Null:
Noraa
Teacher
Menalque
Golden

Scum:
Datisi
Taylor
Bob

[shellyc]

VOTE: shelly

there you fucking go i'm voting shelly

am i town now?

this is a very artificial thought process
with scum!datisi the initial unvote on me maybe for VCA cred and now the way to get out of being on a town wagon is that ico made Datisi vote here

[shellyc]

datisi probtown in my book

elaborate why is Datisi even town

[shellyc]

poor play could be used to describe the early play from noraa

at this point it's straight up scum with not giving reads, having illogical conclusions, forced reads etc

town!noraas LHF and anti-town play is present everywhere. im fine with a noraa policy but I currently town lean slightly there because of the eagerness to make things happen with BM. its very poor play all-round with noraa but I feel they’re probtown

[shellyc]

teacher - probtown

menal why are you insisted on teacher town

teacher is super null, not much content to work with, but I definitely get teacher/menal. I don’t like preflip associatives much tho

[shellyc]

one explanation: shelly's towngame looks like her scumgame because she's rolled scum a lot

this is correct. im pretty deep into the scum persona and dislike rolling town tbh

also im not very good at town yet. one of my weaknesses is getting my points across, I feel like I often have decent reads but the way I articulate them are scummy an that’s why im often lynchbait

[shellyc]

if shelly /is/ VT then all we lose is VT

VTs are still members of town. i don’t really get “shelly is a vt claim lets get her"

[shellyc]

I don’t want to trust tell this. but I am town and will flip VT if you want to flip me today

[shellyc]

menalque vs BM feels like bullshitting about whose wagon is better which is obv anti-town

can we compromise for once. menal will you vote anywhere outside of me.

[shellyc]

bunno why are all your reads revolving around Taylor associatives. this sounds like a good way to backtrack on everything if you’re scum and Taylor is actually town tbqh

[shellyc]

just if you flip me I want town to look at my readslist. I think with this game state tmr can be a Taylor flip. red Taylor means green Bunno and probably red Datisi

if Taylor is also green I think 2-3 of scum are active and pretty strong to manipulate the gamestate

[shellyc]

why is Taylor town bm

[shellyc]

i think teach has some scum equity as well

why do you insist on me despite scum reading teacher
man this makes me feel like teacher/datisi/taylor is the solve

[shellyc]

teacher is probably town by virtue of being the CW to shelly

teacher is probably scum by virtue of being the CW to TOWN!shelly

pedit: I feel like menal actually pushing me super hard is kinda town!indicative as I am flipping green and menas gonna have some serious shade on them

[shellyc]

convenient 2 of your 3 scumreads are the rival wagons right?

that’s a team solve I didn’t look at vca but yeah I think me being the main town!wagon points to other smaller scum wagons

[shellyc]

I still scumread bob though, but I feel like town!bob is quite mislimmable tbh. I’m afraid that slot is LHF a bit

[shellyc]

man this makes me feel like teacher/datisi/taylor is the solve

everyone remember this thanks

I was vt, sorry for the subpar play anyways, good luck.

[shellyc]

I think if Taylor is town someone like bob is probscum

Bunno now untunnelling maaaaaybe is a town move
alonzo is still town

[shellyc]

PoE Taylor Datisi Golden Teacher bob

yeah. good luck, I think this will be a hard game for town and I hope my reads will help us power through this

[shellyc]

go town! time for the afterlife

[shellyc]

golden for general scumminess riding the coat tails of the push on me, really struggle to remember anything they’ve done to advance the gamestate
bob because of early fence-sitting and basically because they’re generally not Really Solving

[shellyc]

bobs push on me is basically menalques rephrased and I dislike that

[shellyc]

BM was always town smh.

alonzo although that hammer is still town
Bunno pushing new worlds upon rep in is very town
ico is town for general vibe and frustration with noraa
username is town for their reads vibing with my own

[shellyc]

Datisi also leaves my scumpool but idk where to yet

pls don’t

my last wish is for town to look at datisi more

[shellyc]

explain username

I like their reads but I haven’t revisited in two RL days = 50 new pages lol

[shellyc]

bob absolutely does not feel like he is trying to sort Nora with his questioning, it feels like he knows she is town and is trying to manipulate her into saying something incriminating.

VOTE: bob

I think the opening to create a bob wagon is pretty townie instead of like just jumping on noraa or something. this feels like solving

[shellyc]

as far as i can tell, the case on shelly is basically that she doesn't understand what 'fencesitting' means.

basically.

all their reads vibe with my own and I like that or maybe im just pocketed

[shellyc]

OBVTOWNS
Noraa
Battle Mage
Bunno

PROBTOWN
Iconeum
shellyc
Menalque

I HAVE SOME CONCERNS
TheGoldenParadox
Datisi
Alonzo

HERE BE SCUM
Tayl0r Swift
teacher
bob3141

VOTE: teacher

this is a very very decent readslist except id switch alonzo around to townie and that’s it

[shellyc]

PoE

Taylor

Datisi

Golden

Teacher

bob

hmmmmmmm

this is a scum win though