Mini Normal 2169 : random facts, game over !

[Battle Mage]

Sending the role PM's, the game will start once i get 11/13 confirmations (currently 11/13)

Game has started, TheGoldenParadox and Battle Mage have 36 hours to confirm before being replaced

a replacement threat already? bloody hell. I'm vanilla town ok, just leave me alone!

[Battle Mage]

hewwoooo
VOTE: Battle mage for being one of the only two that haven't confirmed yet and caused me to have to wait this long >:(

dude its freaking sunday, i got kids

Have some OMGUS!

VOTE: noraa

[Battle Mage]

I can only assume that datisi’s lack of enthusiasm, as proven FACTUALLY by her not getting first post, is a result of her being scum, probably with iconeum

2 down 1 to go

not so fast. "2 down 1 to go"? are you slipping that you know there are 3 scum in this game? the only logical explanation for this is that you are scum yourself and therefore this is a shitpush

checkmate

this is particularly weak, and i'm not overwhelmingly impressed with the jokey, overly flamboyant openings from Menalque and Datisi. Odds of both being scum, slim. Odds of 1 being scum, pretty good based on past experience. VOTE: Datisi

Who wants to leave RVS early? Show of hands

After your little opening exchange with Datisi, I'm about ready to leave the game early. If only I hadn't claimed already...

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: piisirrational

There is nothing irrational about something being irrational

my internal monologue will always and forever say:

Piss-irrational

[Battle Mage]

BM scum?

Nope, not me dude. I am the most vanilla of vanilla townie towns you ever did see.

[Battle Mage]

Okay full disclosure I’m in a PT with icon and he’s acting kinda shady — for instance he/gypx have visited the PT 3 times since I last posted there and there was a thing early where I saw the view count go up without any post, and it was right after Icon and I were talking so I think he was still around and it was prob him looking not gypx

I also think his response to my memeing was kinda scummy for him

If this is actually legit, I'm happy to elim you for it.

[Battle Mage]

Found 2 scums 1 more to goooo ^^

who are the two?

[Battle Mage]

Also, vote for iconeum!

this gives me flashbacks to Saw Mafia. Not a good vibe homie

[Battle Mage]

Yes! >:(
Noraa reserved it lots of time ago. U can check my pms with the mod. I definitely reserved it :3

VOTE: Menalque for stealing my beautiful awesome page top >:(

show me where you've been this cutesy before as town

[Battle Mage]

BM scum?

Nope, not me dude. I am the most vanilla of vanilla townie towns you ever did see.

I hate it when people claim a role in rvs. It gives people a townie first impression and I hate it. +100 scumpoints for u

I'm baffled. You think claiming vanilla town on Page 1 is gonna get me towncred? gimme a break man...

Take your scumpoints and stick em somewhere sensible.

[Battle Mage]

Yes! >:(
Noraa reserved it lots of time ago. U can check my pms with the mod. I definitely reserved it :3

VOTE: Menalque for stealing my beautiful awesome page top >:(

show me where you've been this cutesy before as town

I have zero finished town games so sucks for u

erm, sucks for you surely? i was giving you a fighting chance of proving yourself.

[Battle Mage]

I'll tell you what Noraa. Just for my clarity, explain why you actually think me claiming a role early in the game is a scumtell. because, I think:

A. It's pretty null, and just some random shit to do.
B. If anything, it has slightly less equity for BM-scum, as it means I can't like claim a PR later to avoid getting elimmed.

[Battle Mage]

And additionally, explain how you hope to prove you're town here, if you haven't even played a single game as town? Have you played any games before this one?

[Battle Mage]

meh if I can't prove it with my nonexistent town games, u can't prove anything with them either

Defensive much!? I was definitely trying to give you benefit of doubt, and leaning on the town side, your reaction is immediately paranoid and assuming I'm onto you? Guilty conscience is obvious.

nah u deserve the scumpoints. u seem pretty scummy

Maybe if you care so much about being meta-proof, you could go and look at...I dunno, one of my many dozens of completed games, and tell me whether you think I'm scummy, or the towniest town you've ever seen.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: noraa

this is particularly weak, and i'm not overwhelmingly impressed with the jokey, overly flamboyant openings from Menalque and Datisi. Odds of both being scum, slim. Odds of 1 being scum, pretty good based on past experience. VOTE: Datisi

mind telling me what experience?

if this isn't a rvs vote, u will have to explain it

How are you finding the pressure?

VOTE: Noraa

[Battle Mage]

plus I dont have to have finished town games to prove I'm town. This logic is really flawed

tell me how you will prove it otherwise though?

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: noraa

this is particularly weak, and i'm not overwhelmingly impressed with the jokey, overly flamboyant openings from Menalque and Datisi. Odds of both being scum, slim. Odds of 1 being scum, pretty good based on past experience. VOTE: Datisi

mind telling me what experience?

the example in my head is a game i think it still ongoing so unfortunately not. if it really matters, let me know and i'll see if it's finished cooking.

[Battle Mage]

My pure townie energy will shine thru not to worry :3

i'm only getting a whiff of sickly-sweet scum energy so far.

[Battle Mage]

I can only assume that datisi’s lack of enthusiasm, as proven FACTUALLY by her not getting first post, is a result of her being scum, probably with iconeum

2 down 1 to go

not so fast. "2 down 1 to go"? are you slipping that you know there are 3 scum in this game? the only logical explanation for this is that you are scum yourself and therefore this is a shitpush

checkmate

this is particularly weak, and i'm not overwhelmingly impressed with the jokey, overly flamboyant openings from Menalque and Datisi. Odds of both being scum, slim. Odds of 1 being scum, pretty good based on past experience. VOTE: Datisi

Who wants to leave RVS early? Show of hands

After your little opening exchange with Datisi, I'm about ready to leave the game early. If only I hadn't claimed already...

I agree that its likely one is scum. The claiming early thing reads bad on ur part unless its a joke

Scr00 y00, don't tell me how to play, grr! And if you're gonna just piggyback off my reads, gimme some actual data to work with, rather than just agreeing with me.

idc if its a joke. its not a joke you should be making

With respect, you've said you have not completed a single game of mafia. Even if I completely suck ass, I don't need you telling me what I should or shouldn't be doing in this game. Dial down the preaching sister.

Found 2 scums 1 more to goooo ^^

who are the two?

it was a joke calm ur butt

is anything you've said so far serious? this jokey shit gets short shrift with me when it's prolific. Nothing worse than someone doing a bunch of scummy crap and excusing it with "I was only joking "

[Battle Mage]

the example in my head is a game i think it still ongoing so unfortunately not. if it really matters, let me know and i'll see if it's finished cooking.

if 33 was serious, then yeah i'm interested if/when you can provide

I dig it - went and checked, and actually it is finished because i posted afterwards! Mini 2150 - I was scum, and basically doing the same sorta stuff as you two, so it rang true to me.

For those keeping score, I replaced out but STILL managed to win as sole-surviving scum. It's ok to applaud.

[Battle Mage]

it would look really scummy on ur part to not explain so yeah I would say you should explain.

if i refused to explain, would you think i'm scum? if so, why?

no but it would be antitown to not offer an explanation after dropping a vote on somebody(if its serious which u haven't clarified so idk)

this is a backtrack from post 64. Scummy climbdown in the face of a brick wall.

[Battle Mage]

So far BM's the scummiest person here. I see his SR on me as trying to set up some easy limbait since I hear I tend to give off that first impression. Ofc we are still technically kinda in rvs so this is a fairly weak read but ye I will be putting this here for future reference of what I was thinking 3 pages into the game. First impressions can often help town find the scums so I'm not too sure if I found one but we'll see

You are probably literally the only person who thinks I'm remotely scummy here. I'm pretty obvtown, even from my own perspective. Also, you are playing that RVS card way too hard, although can let that slide as you're a newbie.

However, I actually like the above post. Feels like a legit misguided attempt to get bragging rights. Some townie points for you (although no bragging rights, because, i'm not scum, and you tunnelling me is not helping town).

[Battle Mage]

BM light tunneling on page three is not a good look either.

I dont have any finished TOWNGAMES. However I do have 2 finished scumgames and am currently in 5 games. If you wish to take offense to my reads, then do as you please I dont particularly care ^^

light tunnelling!? Dude I'm hard-tunnelling your scummy-ass

I'm offended by your suggestion I'm going easy on you

[Battle Mage]

BM light tunneling on page three is not a good look either.

I dont have any finished TOWNGAMES. However I do have 2 finished scumgames and am currently in 5 games. If you wish to take offense to my reads, then do as you please I dont particularly care ^^

as a word of advice, it would genuinely be helpful if you can finish one of those towngames quick, and post a link here or just let us know which one it was.

Definitely not offended by your read of me, I'm just telling you it's very misguided. I mean, you know my role, so what more do you want?

[Battle Mage]

it would look really scummy on ur part to not explain so yeah I would say you should explain.

if i refused to explain, would you think i'm scum? if so, why?

no but it would be antitown to not offer an explanation after dropping a vote on somebody(if its serious which u haven't clarified so idk)

the vote was (is) serious, yes.

scummy or anti-town?

pedit: thank you BM, i'll go check it out in a bit
if i told you mena and i are friends and probably would've memed around regardless of either of our alignments, does that change your opinion in any way?

ppedit: tunneling? obvtown?

pppedit: whoops nevermind lol tunneling it is

it was a horrible and gruelling game (not a reflection on the mod, but a minority of players).

Yes it might change my opinion a bit. I've moved on anyway, as you can probably see.

[Battle Mage]

BM scum?

Nope, not me dude. I am the most vanilla of vanilla townie towns you ever did see.

I hate it when people claim a role in rvs. It gives people a townie first impression and I hate it. +100 scumpoints for u

I'm baffled. You think claiming vanilla town on Page 1 is gonna get me towncred? gimme a break man...

Take your scumpoints and stick em somewhere sensible.

No kit kat for you

Vannila townies only get vannilla ice cream

I don't always get the chance to say this Bob, as I always die Night 1, but I love you, and respect you. You are probably the most under-rated town player on this whole website.

[Battle Mage]

plus I dont have to have finished town games to prove I'm town. This logic is really flawed

tell me how you will prove it otherwise though?

I dont think you need finished town games to prove ur town. Meta is trash and unreliable a lot of the time anyways so I dont see what's wrong with not having any. It just means I'm newer than everyone else but so? u trying to tell me that all new players have no way to prove they aren't scum and have to be scum every round until they have a finished town game? Im being a lil defensive ig? But like ur logic just isn't making any sense to me...

The wording of this is really poor. wishy washy rubbish.

"meta is trash"? an odd thing for a newbie who has never completed a game as town to say. Meta can be very useful, although it isn't a silver bullet. Also useful is the threat of meta - and the "meta is trash" line is a real cheap way to try and discourage people from using an alternative avenue for scrutinising others. Marginally scummy but also bad form in my view (although i am old school).

And yes, I do think you are defensive, and I'm pinged by your hasty retreat when you tried to pressure Datisi and he wasn't having any of it. You said his vote was scummy, but your lack of courage of conviction didn't ring as town to me.

Obviously you not having a completed town game doesnt mean you are scum. I'm just testing you.

[Battle Mage]

So far BM's the scummiest person here. I see his SR on me as trying to set up some easy limbait since I hear I tend to give off that first impression. Ofc we are still technically kinda in rvs so this is a fairly weak read but ye I will be putting this here for future reference of what I was thinking 3 pages into the game. First impressions can often help town find the scums so I'm not too sure if I found one but we'll see

You are probably literally the only person who thinks I'm remotely scummy here. I'm pretty obvtown, even from my own perspective. Also, you are playing that RVS card way too hard, although can let that slide as you're a newbie.

However, I actually like the above post. Feels like a legit misguided attempt to get bragging rights. Some townie points for you (although no bragging rights, because, i'm not scum, and you tunnelling me is not helping town).

Your opinion on urself doesn't mean shit and also if u were scum, u would never admit that so I dont see a point in the second sentence. I'm not tunneling u. I'm replying to ur posts.

I obvtown a lot (you would see this is you opened your mind to using meta for knowledge). And my opinion is the only opinion I really care about. Except possibly Bob in this game, who I admire deeply.

If I was scum, I wouldn't claim I'm town, as like a lot of the older players, I'm not a fan of lying. It's unethical and goes against my religion. I'm sure you'll make some incendiary remarks about that next, so go ahead if that's your style. If someone asks you directly if you're scum, and you say you're town when you were actually scum, I think that's pretty classless.

it would look really scummy on ur part to not explain so yeah I would say you should explain.

if i refused to explain, would you think i'm scum? if so, why?

no but it would be antitown to not offer an explanation after dropping a vote on somebody(if its serious which u haven't clarified so idk)

the vote was (is) serious, yes.

scummy or anti-town?

pedit: thank you BM, i'll go check it out in a bit
if i told you mena and i are friends and probably would've memed around regardless of either of our alignments, does that change your opinion in any way?

ppedit: tunneling? obvtown?

pppedit: whoops nevermind lol tunneling it is

Ngl im not quite too sure what the difference between antitown and scummy so idk.

Anti-town means unhelpful to town, and basically helping scum, which isn't alignment indicative.

Scummy means, you are scum.

BM light tunneling on page three is not a good look either.

I dont have any finished TOWNGAMES. However I do have 2 finished scumgames and am currently in 5 games. If you wish to take offense to my reads, then do as you please I dont particularly care ^^

as a word of advice, it would genuinely be helpful if you can finish one of those towngames quick, and post a link here or just let us know which one it was.

Definitely not offended by your read of me, I'm just telling you it's very misguided. I mean, you know my role, so what more do you want?

if u want, u can stalk me and find out when one of my town games end. However I will not be remembering this just bc u requested it and I dislike ur tunneling:3

I don't care about you that much, and I don't expect you live past Day 1 anyway really. If you don't care enough about surviving to try your best, that's on you. (anti-town btw)

[Battle Mage]

it was a horrible and gruelling game (not a reflection on the mod, but a minority of players).

Yes it might change my opinion a bit. I've moved on anyway, as you can probably see.

ok so i went to look for mini normal 2150 and either i'm either blind or illiterate because i can't find it

i was also interested in it due to past experience, scum trying to shade us by "someone is pocketing someone here" when we were t/t
i've got my eye on you

It was a mini theme!! Coney Island is the place to go.

I'm sure that would easily be the case if you were t/t. However:

A. I don't know if you are t/t or not, and presumably neither do you.
B. If this is your past experience, I'd have thought you might avoid doing something which you know looks scummy and gets you shaded? Because if scum are shading you for looking scummy, town often will too.

Keep your eye on me though, and watch me at work. You never know what you might pick up!

[Battle Mage]

battle mage based on 90

Since you dont like lying and would tell us the truth when ever asked.

Are you scum?

I am not scum mate. I am town. 100%.

[Battle Mage]

my word is my bond

[Battle Mage]

meh if I can't prove it with my nonexistent town games, u can't prove anything with them either

nah u deserve the scumpoints. u seem pretty scummy

What motivation do you think battlemage would have to make such a claim so soon after the game started. I just can't see how it could be alignment indicative.

Ok it might not be a great move and maybe slightly anti-town potential but scummy.

TSTBS and LAMIST is what I was trying to say he might be doing

Claiming town is LAMIST? I mean, strictly speaking yeah, but FFS.

Also, how can something be TSTBS AND LAMIST!? You're hedging your bets here aren't you? I can't be both too scummy to be scum, and too townie to be town.

[Battle Mage]

BM is basically only focusing on me and ngl that strikes me as pretty scummy considering I'm prolly one of the newest players in general in this game and I definitely strike most people as LHF first impression. Tunneling this early into the game is just a huge scumtell imo.

VOTE: Battle Mage

His entire play so far has been fluff and tunneling Noraa. There has been zero other content

are you talking about yourself in the third person and quoting your own posts to make it seem like you have friends backing you up, and you can get momentum behind a BM wagon?

[Battle Mage]

meh if I can't prove it with my nonexistent town games, u can't prove anything with them either

nah u deserve the scumpoints. u seem pretty scummy

What motivation do you think battlemage would have to make such a claim so soon after the game started. I just can't see how it could be alignment indicative.

Ok it might not be a great move and maybe slightly anti-town potential but scummy.

TSTBS and LAMIST is what I was trying to say he might be doing

Claiming town is LAMIST? I mean, strictly speaking yeah, but FFS.

Also, how can something be TSTBS AND LAMIST!? You're hedging your bets here aren't you? I can't be both too scummy to be scum, and too townie to be town.

LAMIST by TSTBS

i'm confident that neither of us know what you're talking about.

[Battle Mage]

meh if I can't prove it with my nonexistent town games, u can't prove anything with them either

nah u deserve the scumpoints. u seem pretty scummy

What motivation do you think battlemage would have to make such a claim so soon after the game started. I just can't see how it could be alignment indicative.

Ok it might not be a great move and maybe slightly anti-town potential but scummy.

Ah it's a great move dude, trust me.

BM scum?

Nope, not me dude. I am the most vanilla of vanilla townie towns you ever did see.

I hate it when people claim a role in rvs. It gives people a townie first impression and I hate it. +100 scumpoints for u

I'm baffled. You think claiming vanilla town on Page 1 is gonna get me towncred? gimme a break man...

Take your scumpoints and stick em somewhere sensible.

No kit kat for you

Vannila townies only get vannilla ice cream

I don't always get the chance to say this Bob, as I always die Night 1, but I love you, and respect you. You are probably the most under-rated town player on this whole website.

whats with everyone of late trying to jinx me.

Shame last game you died before i even got into the game. I was like oh day one has started. The next day how is it already night 1.

haha yeah and if you saw the dead thread, i correctly identified both remaining scum! so my scumhunting is at peak performance currently. What do you think of Noraa?

"when I tried to pressure datisi"
wtf he dropped a vote on me and I asked for an explanation and u get this out of that?

To recap what happened:

Datisi votes you with no reason given.
You say dats scummy.
He says is it really scummy, you wanna fight.
You say, ah maybe its not so scummy, lets call a truce at anti-town.

You folded faster than a pad hand in vegas.

stop discrediting everything I say by mentioning my inexperience. that's very scummy +200 scumpoints

It isn't scummy. I'm not convinced you believe it's scummy. I'm not sure you even know what scummy is, based on your debate with Datisi.

"testing u"
it sounds more like u trying to set me up as limbait and are backpedalling right about now

backpedalling? It's called being fair and objective - it's quite key to effective scumhunting. It's good to have the artifice of being tunnel-visioned while actually maintaining some perspective and objectivity to allow me to judge your alignment.

You will learn a lot from watching me in this game I think.

[Battle Mage]

BM is basically only focusing on me and ngl that strikes me as pretty scummy considering I'm prolly one of the newest players in general in this game and I definitely strike most people as LHF first impression. Tunneling this early into the game is just a huge scumtell imo.

VOTE: Battle Mage

His entire play so far has been fluff and tunneling Noraa. There has been zero other content

are you talking about yourself in the third person and quoting your own posts to make it seem like you have friends backing you up, and you can get momentum behind a BM wagon?

only ceaser is allowed to talk about themselves in the 3rd person. lol

Noraa if you keep as BM says talking about yourself in the 3rd person. You will have to do it all game as punishment.

I refuse. I do it when I feel like it so suck it up and deal with it :3

I'm struggling with the idea you are stand-offish and obstinate in the face of things that don't matter to your win condition as town, but when you think someone is scum, you immediately give up as soon as they fight back.

[Battle Mage]

@Datisi

not sure. You dont seem to really explain anything so its possible that this is the way u play early in games. I have a null read on you rn if that answers the question

backtrack complete?

[Battle Mage]

Post # 102 is a bit provocative. Unfortunately I dont get mad that easily so you won't be able to get a huge reaction out of me and SR me for it. I talk about myself in third person from time to time correct. The other part is kinda rude however scumhunter Noraa isn't bad at her job so u best watch out. Rn a wagon on u sounds like the best wagon

Scumhunter Noraa isn't giving a good account of herself here, although I suspect she is slightly hampered by knowing who is scum and not wanting to draw attention to them.

102 wasn't rude at all. It seemed like you were pretending you had some backing to try and encourage other people to vote for me. Which would be very devious and scummy wouldnt it?

[Battle Mage]

BM is basically only focusing on me and ngl that strikes me as pretty scummy considering I'm prolly one of the newest players in general in this game and I definitely strike most people as LHF first impression. Tunneling this early into the game is just a huge scumtell imo.

VOTE: Battle Mage

His entire play so far has been fluff and tunneling Noraa. There has been zero other content

I'll actually comment on this, because it's riddled with flaws. I have commented on other things - I talked about Datisi and Menalque's early engagement, and I talked about Datisi's vote on you. Not much else has happened, so I've basically talked about everything I possibly could have. Some fluff, but nothing selective.

Playing the newbie card to get yourself out of the spotlight above, is a scumtell in my book. I'm not going to give you a free-pass because you're new. You being new and vulnerable is a very good reason for targetting you in the first place - you are more likely to give interesting AI reactions in response to pressure.

Saying tunnelling is a scumtell when you have been tunnelling me as much as you think I've tunnelled you, is....meh.

[Battle Mage]

I'm definitely town, so I like those odds!

[Battle Mage]

that's helpful, thanks Bob! she doesn't really think datisi is null, she's just too scared of him to continue pressing. Doesn't want a fight on two-fronts, which seems like sensible play for Noraa-scum, but nonsensical play for Noraa-town.

On a lighter note, Taylor Swift hasn't posted in the first 5 pages!?

[Battle Mage]

Okay full disclosure I’m in a PT with icon and he’s acting kinda shady — for instance he/gypx have visited the PT 3 times since I last posted there and there was a thing early where I saw the view count go up without any post, and it was right after Icon and I were talking so I think he was still around and it was prob him looking not gypx

I also think his response to my memeing was kinda scummy for him

If this is actually legit, I'm happy to elim you for it.

Oh, also, yes this is very much legit and if you wanna come at me for it feel free but it’s not gonna go like you’re imagining

if that's you threatening to NK me, knock yourself out big guy.

[Battle Mage]

i got one!

[Battle Mage]

Also, vote for iconeum!

this gives me flashbacks to Saw Mafia. Not a good vibe homie

I... didn’t play in saw?

no, it gives me flashbacks to my own play in Saw Mafia. You reminding me of me. Not a compliment, hombre.

[Battle Mage]

Okay full disclosure I’m in a PT with icon and he’s acting kinda shady — for instance he/gypx have visited the PT 3 times since I last posted there and there was a thing early where I saw the view count go up without any post, and it was right after Icon and I were talking so I think he was still around and it was prob him looking not gypx

I also think his response to my memeing was kinda scummy for him

If this is actually legit, I'm happy to elim you for it.

Oh, also, yes this is very much legit and if you wanna come at me for it feel free but it’s not gonna go like you’re imagining

if that's you threatening to NK me, knock yourself out big guy.

No I just really doubt you manage to get a guillo through on me, no offense

*shrug* we'll see I guess? me getting elims through is never normally a problem, for better or worse. If you think you're special, I don't need to press further.

[Battle Mage]

Also, vote for iconeum!

this gives me flashbacks to Saw Mafia. Not a good vibe homie

I... didn’t play in saw?

no, it gives me flashbacks to my own play in Saw Mafia. You reminding me of me. Not a compliment, hombre.

oooookay only I’m not you so why do you think I would play scum similarly to you?

you're scum here? i was generously assuming you were town.

Duly noted.

Scum: Noraa, Menalque.

[Battle Mage]

All Datisi did was vote without giving a reason. Thats at most a little antitown/scummy. I dont see why I am expected to SR him after slightly Fosing him over that. Bm on the other hand I do find scummy. The tunneling is definitely not a good look imo. Whoever said that I should find both Datisi and BM scummy, I dont see why encouraging OMGUSing is a good thing...

It's not that you're "expected to SR him", it's that you DID SR him, and then when he stood up to you, you completely crumbled. It was tough to watch...

Your justification for finding me scummy, in the context of your behaviour towards Datisi, doesn't add up.

Calling me scummy for tunnelling, when that's actually something you are doing, rather than me, is not a good look.

[Battle Mage]

Okay full disclosure I’m in a PT with icon and he’s acting kinda shady — for instance he/gypx have visited the PT 3 times since I last posted there and there was a thing early where I saw the view count go up without any post, and it was right after Icon and I were talking so I think he was still around and it was prob him looking not gypx

I also think his response to my memeing was kinda scummy for him

If this is actually legit, I'm happy to elim you for it.

Oh, also, yes this is very much legit and if you wanna come at me for it feel free but it’s not gonna go like you’re imagining

if that's you threatening to NK me, knock yourself out big guy.

No I just really doubt you manage to get a guillo through on me, no offense

*shrug* we'll see I guess? me getting elims through is never normally a problem, for better or worse. If you think you're special, I don't need to press further.

yeh, guess we’ll see

Starting to prefer this order for elims tbh

VOTE: BM

Oh wow, that nervous? I'll generously call it an OMGUS as I'd already busted your ass.

[Battle Mage]

Bruh I haven’t even read saw but if you’re saying “you remind me of me, not a good vibe” that p strongly implies you were scum in the game you’re saying I remind you of you in

i disagree

[Battle Mage]

In what sense, even vaguely, can you be said to have “busted my ass”

i had a list of 2 scum, you were on it. immediately afterwards you voted for me, apparently at least partly due to your fear that i would elim you (as you quoted that post when you voted me). Sorry dude but I'm taking those bragging rights to the bank, I busted your ass.

[Battle Mage]

Bruh I haven’t even read saw but if you’re saying “you remind me of me, not a good vibe” that p strongly implies you were scum in the game you’re saying I remind you of you in

i disagree

Ok why

eh? i don't agree it strongly implies that at all - it's a leap of faith you have made. The burden of proof is on you to convince otherwise, not the other way around.

[Battle Mage]

I think a scum in (BM, noraa) seems likely above rand

Not sure if BM is scum at this point in time cuz as town, I've never actually been tunneled day 1 before. I've reread my entrance in attempt to seeing what I did differently this game that got me these reactions but I'm not seeing anything which is definitely adding to my suspicions on BM just being a scum trying to kill off some LHF day 1. Putting pressures on newbies generally always gets u some good "scum tells" but I find those often aren't AI instead are just a more experienced player trying to get a mislim. I think BM could very likely be a scum here tho. This is not backtracking no. Top of my scum reads is still BM. I am however not too sure if my read is accurate given my lack of experience.

However BM is the only one that is discrediting my opinions bc of inexperience. I'll quote some posts of his in my next post with that. It's either really rude of him or he is scum trying tp set me up to look like LHF so he can leave me til limlo where my opinions won't matter. I might be overthinking a shit ton considering we are on like page 5 but anyways yeah

I mean, you're literally discrediting your own opinions bc of inexperience, and using that as a reason we shouldn't elim you.

I don't know who LHF is, and I'm gonna take your "rude" accusation with a pinch of salt given you threw it at me earlier for accusing you of being scum (which is the point of the game).

I actually think you would have got some towncred for backtracking on me, but it still just looks like you backtracked on Datisi as you knew I would be more tenacious and you didn't want a war on two fronts. I don't see your Datisi-retreat as you re-evaluating your opinion at all, it sounds more like you're in denial that it ever happened. Although luckily this is forum mafia, and the evidence is in the thread.

If you wanted to be more constructive, you could look at Menalque and tell me what you think, as you've ignored him completely to this point.

[Battle Mage]

The last line is sarcasm?

yes

What’s your read on BM, datisi?

i thought he was vaguely +town for the mindmeld about noraa

truth be told i'm not following the spat between you two since the thread is moving fast (to me) and i'm tired

is menalque an ego player? If we have split alignment neighbours, I'm quite fond of the idea we flip Menalque today, and then if he's town, we get the sweet pleasure of flipping Ico tomorrow. (not in a serious way though, for da newbies).

[Battle Mage]

Ok ok I see a shit ton of posts directed at me. I'm not replying to all of them individually. that's way too much work especially when most the questions are basically the same. Someone compile the questions into one post and I'll reply to that. I agree that currently NoraavBM definitely gives for a TvS look. However I believe town should not only focus on us two. The reason is that town is going to let the other scums do whatever tf they want. {Noraa, BM} has at most one scum. I am 100% sure of this fact bc I am town however it seems town agrees also that a Bm/Noraa scum team would not work. I think we do need to be looking elsewhere as well is my point. You can continue to tunnel, yes. But I dont see much potential there considering even if best case scenario town lims scum!Bm, tomorrow you will realize that you tunneled the shit out of two players and have close to nothing on whoever the other scums are.

pedit:can y'all slow tf down I'm having a hard time keeping up

You say the town shouldnt focus on us 2, but all you have done is talk about me. In contrast, I have talked about everybody else. Spot the one scumhunting from the one posturing.

[Battle Mage]

I am inexperienced correct and that means I make more mistakes that others no matter my alignment. That is a fact. However using something that everyone has to go thru against me to discredit my opinions is a pretty shitty thing to do.

LHF- low hanging fruit or easy limbait

I Fosed Datisi and that doesn't equal I must follow up with a vote or SR
I SRed BM and I still do but am a little uncertain and will be rethinking. I dont think this SR will disappear. I'm just waiting for more evidence

as i noted in a previous post, you yourself are using your inexperience as a crutch to absolve yourself of responsibility for high quality scumhunting. You're lazily tunnelling me, and accusing me of things which are factually and demonstrably inaccurate, at the expense of time and effort, for no benefit. You have discredited your own opinions to excuse yourself for when I, at some stage, flip town. Your read on me is based on nothing, and you haven't shown any legitimate scumhunting to me yet. Everyone makes mistakes, all you can ever do is try your best, regardless of your pedigree.

There's a question of consistency with your Datisi and BM reads. I won't labour the point as i've said it many times now. A town player should not feel compelled to stick with the same reads, but they should be able to explain why their reads changed. You are sticking with a debunked attack on me for no reason, and yet have not explained why you backtracked so hard from Datisi.

[Battle Mage]

Did you just tell me I have ignored someone?
How rich that its coming from you, a person that has only tunneled me and buddied everyone else

it's apparent you haven't read the thread then. Disappointing. I'm done for the night. adios

[Battle Mage]

Scr00 y00.....

With respect

Just lol at this sequence.

says a man who does not screw respectfully

[Battle Mage]

I feel greatly bullied here btw
y'all tunnel hard
accuse me of using AtE if u wish. In a way it is asking u to stop tunneling this hard

i dont buy it, as earlier you accused us of not tunnelling you hard enough.

[Battle Mage]

I am inexperienced correct and that means I make more mistakes that others no matter my alignment. That is a fact. However using something that everyone has to go thru against me to discredit my opinions is a pretty shitty thing to do.

LHF- low hanging fruit or easy limbait

I Fosed Datisi and that doesn't equal I must follow up with a vote or SR
I SRed BM and I still do but am a little uncertain and will be rethinking. I dont think this SR will disappear. I'm just waiting for more evidence

as i noted in a previous post, you yourself are using your inexperience as a crutch to absolve yourself of responsibility for high quality scumhunting. You're lazily tunnelling me, and accusing me of things which are factually and demonstrably inaccurate, at the expense of time and effort, for no benefit. You have discredited your own opinions to excuse yourself for when I, at some stage, flip town. Your read on me is based on nothing, and you haven't shown any legitimate scumhunting to me yet. Everyone makes mistakes, all you can ever do is try your best, regardless of your pedigree.

There's a question of consistency with your Datisi and BM reads. I won't labour the point as i've said it many times now. A town player should not feel compelled to stick with the same reads, but they should be able to explain why their reads changed. You are sticking with a debunked attack on me for no reason, and yet have not explained why you backtracked so hard from Datisi.

This conflict directly with all the bs u threw at me earlier. This is subjective. If you want to set up limbait, u will just say they are backtracking but if they are ur scum buddy, u will say they are town for having fluid reads. I am sticking to a SR on u bc ur scummy as hell. I didn't back track "so hard" It was a tiny change in opinion and you turned it into a huge ass deal

I'm not taking the credit away from Datisi, and neither should you. He busted you, I was just there to see it. Clearly your read is not serious to me because you aren't actually following the game - you're just obsessing over posts about you and I, and ignoring all the other stuff going on. How could you possibly not stick to a SR on me, when you've been ignoring everybody else?

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

I can only assume that datisi’s lack of enthusiasm, as proven FACTUALLY by her not getting first post, is a result of her being scum, probably with iconeum

2 down 1 to go

not so fast. "2 down 1 to go"? are you slipping that you know there are 3 scum in this game? the only logical explanation for this is that you are scum yourself and therefore this is a shitpush

checkmate

this is particularly weak, and i'm not overwhelmingly impressed with the jokey, overly flamboyant openings from Menalque and Datisi. Odds of both being scum, slim. Odds of 1 being scum, pretty good based on past experience. VOTE: Datisi

Who wants to leave RVS early? Show of hands

After your little opening exchange with Datisi, I'm about ready to leave the game early. If only I hadn't claimed already...

I agree that its likely one is scum. The claiming early thing reads bad on ur part unless its a joke

Scr00 y00, don't tell me how to play, grr! And if you're gonna just piggyback off my reads, gimme some actual data to work with, rather than just agreeing with me.

idc if its a joke. its not a joke you should be making

With respect, you've said you have not completed a single game of mafia. Even if I completely suck ass, I don't need you telling me what I should or shouldn't be doing in this game. Dial down the preaching sister.

Found 2 scums 1 more to goooo ^^

who are the two?

it was a joke calm ur butt

is anything you've said so far serious? this jokey shit gets short shrift with me when it's prolific. Nothing worse than someone doing a bunch of scummy crap and excusing it with "I was only joking "

Discrediting this early. The defensive one definitely looks like you here.

plus I dont have to have finished town games to prove I'm town. This logic is really flawed

tell me how you will prove it otherwise though?

I dont think you need finished town games to prove ur town. Meta is trash and unreliable a lot of the time anyways so I dont see what's wrong with not having any. It just means I'm newer than everyone else but so? u trying to tell me that all new players have no way to prove they aren't scum and have to be scum every round until they have a finished town game? Im being a lil defensive ig? But like ur logic just isn't making any sense to me...

The wording of this is really poor. wishy washy rubbish.

"meta is trash"? an odd thing for a newbie who has never completed a game as town to say.

Meta can be very useful, although it isn't a silver bullet. Also useful is the threat of meta - and the "meta is trash" line is a real cheap way to try and discourage people from using an alternative avenue for scrutinising others. Marginally scummy but also bad form in my view (although i am old school).

And yes, I do think you are defensive, and I'm pinged by your hasty retreat when you tried to pressure Datisi and he wasn't having any of it. You said his vote was scummy, but your lack of courage of conviction didn't ring as town to me.

Obviously you not having a completed town game doesnt mean you are scum. I'm just testing you.

Discrediting again. "Her saying meta sucks doesn't mean shit cuz she's new" is what I hear. "I'm just testing u" what kind of literal bs is this? I feel like I'd have to be the stupidest person in the world to believe that all that tunneling can just be summed up as a quick "test"

BM is basically only focusing on me and ngl that strikes me as pretty scummy considering I'm prolly one of the newest players in general in this game and I definitely strike most people as LHF first impression. Tunneling this early into the game is just a huge scumtell imo.

VOTE: Battle Mage

His entire play so far has been fluff and tunneling Noraa. There has been zero other content

I'll actually comment on this, because it's riddled with flaws. I have commented on other things - I talked about Datisi and Menalque's early engagement, and I talked about Datisi's vote on you. Not much else has happened, so I've basically talked about everything I possibly could have. Some fluff, but nothing selective.

Playing the newbie card to get yourself out of the spotlight above, is a scumtell in my book. I'm not going to give you a free-pass because you're new. You being new and vulnerable is a very good reason for targetting you in the first place - you are more likely to give interesting AI reactions in response to pressure.

Saying tunnelling is a scumtell when you have been tunnelling me as much as you think I've tunnelled you, is....meh.

1) you already replied to this post once
2) I'm tunneling as much as u? u take that back. hands down a complete lie.
3) "being new and vulnerable is a very good reason to target" hold tf up. I've never seen a playerlist bully noobs like this before. This isn't even that AI its just purely mean at this point.

that's helpful, thanks Bob! she doesn't really think datisi is null, she's just too scared of him to continue pressing. Doesn't want a fight on two-fronts, which seems like sensible play for Noraa-scum, but nonsensical play for Noraa-town.

On a lighter note, Taylor Swift hasn't posted in the first 5 pages!?

dont talk for me. thanks

tldr: NO I'M NOT SCUM, YOU'RE SCUM, supported by lies and rubbish.

I'm not planning to respond to any more of these - Noraa, keep tunnelling me as much as you like though, scumhunting is overrated.

[Battle Mage]

yes let me tell you how much you should have me as locktown on page 3

...you hadn't even posted by page 3?

[Battle Mage]

Bruh I haven’t even read saw but if you’re saying “you remind me of me, not a good vibe” that p strongly implies you were scum in the game you’re saying I remind you of you in

i disagree

Ok why

eh? i don't agree it strongly implies that at all - it's a leap of faith you have made. The burden of proof is on you to convince otherwise, not the other way around.

I think this is pretty clearly not the reasonable assessment of anyone who’s coming to that statement from outside of the two of us

“You remind me of me, not a good vibe” in a /mafia game context/ is, i think, pretty clearly implying that you’re saying something about alignment unless you wanna argue that you have a well known reputation for disliking yourself as a person

i prefer "being humble" than "disliking myself as a person", it's only a game dude.

"you remind me of me" sounds much more about character and behaviour rather than necessarily alignment, so I think your assumption was odd at best. Although increasingly I don't care as it's a relatively trivial thing in the grand scheme.

[Battle Mage]

ah, i'm taking a break from this one, you guys spam so much!

I'll be watching though!

[Battle Mage]

BM, hot take

noraa counter tunneling and omgus'ing you isn't scum!indicative
noraa using the newbie card to get out of jail for free is NAI, because scum!noraa would probably be using that as much as town!noraa

I disagree, but the jury's out on everyone really - I'm not lock-scum on Noraa or anything mad. I think there's going to be high volume posting in this game, so I'm going to take more of a backseat and share my observations later.

In response to Datisi and Menalque calling me arrogant - not actually true, it's mostly just tongue-in-cheek really!

I'm aware my scumhunting record overall is pretty marginal at best, although on my day I can be very good, and am improving with age. I generally do my best work when i don't post so much, however that's also less fun! Also pressuring newbies in non-newbie games is just objectively the right thing to do.

[Battle Mage]

despite noraa having (what i consider) bad insights, i don't think they come from a scummy mindset

why do you think bad insights come from a town mindset

I don't really see town!noraa directly approaching BM, noraa is trying to shade BM NOT solve them, how is that a townie mindset

I'm not a fan of lying. It's unethical and goes against my religion.

Good note. Then can you (if you havent in the pages that follow this) explain your logic for hardclaiming VT?

I can, but I won't. Good question though.

[Battle Mage]

ignore first quote i guess, i was just gonna say i agree or something lol

[Battle Mage]

So far BM's the scummiest person here. I see his SR on me as trying to set up some easy limbait since I hear I tend to give off that first impression. Ofc we are still technically kinda in rvs so this is a fairly weak read but ye I will be putting this here for future reference of what I was thinking 3 pages into the game. First impressions can often help town find the scums so I'm not too sure if I found one but we'll see

I feel greatly bullied here btw
y'all tunnel hard
accuse me of using AtE if u wish. In a way it is asking u to stop tunneling this hard

The reason is that town is going to let the other scums do whatever tf they want.

Why is this a bad thing tho, we still get a scum for the trouble and we can worry about sorting the others later if this is TvS

my point is that we also need to be keeping an eye out for the other scums. I, for one want a BM lim today since I am literally so certain those aggressive pushes dont come from town. But I think while we are doing this, we should be keeping an eye out for the other scums.

to elaborate a bit on my read - nora right now is doing exactly to bm what they are accusing bm of doing to others. the hypocrisy is not lost. i don't see nora vs bm as TvT but right now I'm null on BM and scumreading nora, and i absolutely think this could be an SvS bussing episode.
i'm slightly confused as to why town would be this confident in a read that they have developed in the first few hours of the game? if you're THIS confident that BM is scum, then simply voting them and removing them (without "keeping an eye out" for the other scum) would give town a massive leg up. i'm looking at nora as potential scum, and i'm looking at BM as a potential scumpartner. piisirrational is looking pretty good to me right now, although i will acknowledge that i am biased towards analyzers/gamesolvers so i'm putting him as a null, maybe a slight townlean. although menalque is kinda annoying me with their posting frequency, i'm townleaning them because they seem at least a little bit genuine about trying to read the BM/Nora bandwagon. no one else has enough substance to be read right now.

to respond to #224 - no it didn't; most players haven't posted anything substantial yet.

interesting - agree with the hypocrisy take, think the SvS take is a stretch. for future reference, especially for any newbies watching who end up scumteaming with me:

A. I won't bus you on Day 1 because I'm not a dick.
B. If I bus you at any point, I'll make sure it's somewhat elegant.

[Battle Mage]

and i'm looking at BM as a potential scumpartner.

This is a spicy take, you think BM would bus right out of the gate on page 2?

Also, yeah, sorry about the posting frequency I will be trying to dial it down, just gimme some leeway for the first day or so I’m v excited by this PL and that’s running through a bit

all good! yeah i haven't been on the site in a while and don't have personal experience with anyone here i don't think; but i do think that scum opening with straight bussing on page 2 is reasonable and not completely irration
bussing is one of those things that you can WIFOM the hell out of though so i'll have to wait and see

side note: i've been reading the wiki to get up to speed on all the hip new sayings - has LyLo been replaced by ELo in its entirety or is LyLo still pretty commonly used?

I think I recognise your name from somewhere but I’m sure we haven’t played together

Hmmm. Idk, I’m not generally inclined to bus straight away but I know some people would see it differently. I guess I just think that in general, most players won’t bus that early on when their buddy hasn’t done anything /that/ incriminating and there’s still lots of ways out. I would generally only expect that from someone who is (1) really arrogant and (2) really competent as scum, and I’m not sure if BM meets both criteria to a sufficient extent for it to benefit his wincon to actively try to elim a teammate > just letting day play a little bit, seeing where the cards fall, making a push on a slot that seems vulnerable from there

So I guess: possible, but unlikely is my stance on the v early hardbus

lylo is still used but mostly as a slip of the tongue, I think. I’m backing gylo (guillotine-or-lose) but I think elo is prob the most used atm

oi, I'm exceptionally competent as scum. 100% winrate this year. Ok maybe I'm a little arrogant too then

[Battle Mage]

you think it isnt TvT, i disagree.

I mean, I think this

BM and noraa both apparently think this

Bob maybe thinks this?

Datisi thinks this

In other words, it’s a very natural and reasonable take to see this as TvS, so my point is you’re not seeing it that way, and I think that’s potentially TMIy — especially when you made posts commenting on it that did imply that you thought things that (predominantly BM) had said were AI but then you... call it TvT and vote a random player who hasn’t contributed anything yet

Yes, I find that a problematic sequence of events in a world where you’re town

I don't think reading me and Noraa as both being town is scum-indicative for Taylor. I'd be pretty surprised if a few people didn't take that position. Often, but not always the case, mathematically and empirically speaking. I generally think you're overplaying your hand so far, although maybe you're trying to emulate me?

right mena moved the vote, i'm tired

well its just strange that out of the four people who had been active to that point, one pair townread each other, another pair scumread each other and crossvoted, and then the first pair hopped on opposing sides of the wagons. was odd.

is it ~strange/odd~ in a scummy way?

I would agree that he’s arrogant but that’s exactly why I don’t think him making an overconfident push is clearing? Like I think my impression of his scumgame is that he’s cocky enough to just shitpush out of the gate under the assumption it will be townread for ~taking stances~ and ~trying to solve~

If his take on me is just a joke then :roll-eyes: maybe I’m overreacting. But if it’s serious then I do think it’s +scum equity. But rn I prefer noraa and I don’t think it’s SvS. Like BM is probably in the fairly small subset of players who think highly enough of themselves to just lolbus a partner out of the gate for cred, but even knowing that I would say it’s clearing for him for 2-4 days depending on what the rest of his content is like just because lolbussing a partner is pretty rare as a thing to happen from page 2

i didn't say him making an overconfident push early is clearing? i said he's currently more town than scum to me because the push he made nicely aligned with my thoughts a couple of times

i don't know if it is (and @BM you're free to jump in here and correct me) but that's kinda the impression i got (since tbh the thing kinda looked like a pissing contest)
agreed on the room-temperature take of BM/noraa probably not s/s

talk to me about bob townlean?

pedit: not reading

Sorry I don't even know what he's talking about dude, help a brother out!? You're probably right though, so I'll just agree with you in ignorance

If it’s icon/noraa/Taylor then I’m a god and I’m sigging myself saying this postgame

ur not a god cuz I'm town

Well if you are and BM is scum instead then we’ll call it quits at demigod

arrogant or what? are you (in your own words) lolbussing your partner Noraa?

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Menalque

At least partly because it would be hilarious if we flip him Day 1 when he said it would be impossible, and partly to get to the bottom of this secret PT mystery.

[Battle Mage]

I'm torn on whether Menalque is making a genuine attempt to solve Noraa and me. I like his prolific posting, although some of the reasoning behind his suspicions leave a little to be desired.

I'm not super excited by the GP case at first look, although commendable effort by Ico.

[Battle Mage]

I don't think reading me and Noraa as both being town is scum-indicative for Taylor. I'd be pretty surprised if a few people didn't take that position. Often, but not always the case, mathematically and empirically speaking. I generally think you're overplaying your hand so far, although maybe you're trying to emulate me?

the way that taylor conveys it's TvT without much explanation sounds like TMI.

could be a TvT gut-read on 2 players passionately accusing each other, so I don't think so. I mean it's pissible, but could just as easily be nothing. You're answering for Menalque here?

[Battle Mage]

BM whats your read on taylor?

I just finished a game where Taylor was scum, and she wasn't too hard to spot - openly playing against town wincon. Nothing has pinged me here yet, which would lead me to believe Taylor=town, although early days.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Menalque

At least partly because it would be hilarious if we flip him Day 1 when he said it would be impossible, and partly to get to the bottom of this secret PT mystery.

fine i'll spill the beans

menalque is notorious for fake claiming with/towards me and my potential roles in game, and we tend to get into a fight over it early on. He's never hard claimed like this with me tho

IIRC it was Always town!menal who pulled this shit but i'll look towards Datisi 'The Keeper Of Games' for confirmation

so you're some kind of neighbours, with no alignment confirmation then? don't need to say more than that, but that much would be helpful.

[Battle Mage]

no im not answering for menal, i saw it being brought up

still wanna hear an elaboration from taylor regarding that read because it isnt well explained
like ico spent ages trying to discover the TvT-ness of that conflict and I buy it

pedit: meta is trash

you did answer for Menalque - i wasn't criticising necessarily, just making sure it wasn't missed that you spoke up for him.

To be clear, I'm currently completely uninterested in a Day 1 Taylor-elim. In the nicest possible way, if she's scum, we'll know sooner rather than later. I don't see it yet on your logic.

[Battle Mage]

menalque's claim is a reaction test

so he's lying, and you're not in some PT with him?

[Battle Mage]

To be clear, I'm currently completely uninterested in a Day 1 Taylor-elim. In the nicest possible way, if she's scum, we'll know sooner rather than later. I don't see it yet on your logic.

whats the alternative you propose then?

besides, do you still scumread / scumlean noraa considering they could be omgusing newbtown

scumlean yes, definitely.

i'm ok with pressure on menalque, especially in the light of him potentially fakeclaiming neighbour at the start of Day 1 - which could be marginally scummy, as it's a role which he could argue should be resolved later (i.e. it gives him an out to avoid getting elimmed Day 1). Plus shits and giggs innit.

[Battle Mage]

menalque's claim is a reaction test

so he's lying, and you're not in some PT with him?

what do you think are the options for either allignment!menal who's in an actual PT with me?

Town!menal openly claims it without giving me a chance to talk to him in there first?
Scum!menal openly claims it because??

Do you have any theory that makes sense as to him outing it at this stage?

dude, i dont even know if you're in a PT with him or not. Be straight with me first about wtf is actually going on, and I can give you my opinion.

[Battle Mage]

hmmmmmm okay

BM can you link the taylor game? I am up for some reading tonight

it was an open setup called Noir Mafia.

[Battle Mage]

how is it +scum EV to fakeclaim neighbour? when it's proven fake it creates /more/ pressure on menal

i have no idea how it's +EV for anyone to fakeclaim neighbour at the start of Day 1. I love a gambit, but that's pushing it even for my tastes.

[Battle Mage]

At least partly because it would be hilarious if we flip him Day 1 when he said it would be impossible

I don’t think I said it would be impossible, I said I didn’t think you’d be able to get my flip D1. As in, when I’ve been mis guillo’d it’s generally been because there’s been a broad sense of suspicion of me from town slots in the thread which scum has either tacitly supported or they’ve white knighted me. I think in terms of /actual/ 1v1s that have been forced by me or by someone else I’ve been the one flipped in those once ever when I got into it with RC

oh dear

[Battle Mage]

man i hope this game calms down a bit

Noraa is oozing newbtown and Ico somehow being the only other person to see this is also giving me strong townvibes.

-I'm townleaning BM a bit because most of his posts are things I'd more likely see coming from town!BM than scum!BM. Just a gut feeling at the moment. Could change though.

this sounds like super forced?

VOTE: Bob

I get the feeling noraa Vs BM continuing benefits Bob, I don't interpret his posting as him truly trying to guide noraa there.

i agree with both of these takes. pii seems weirdly nervous about calling BM town, bob absolutely does not feel like he is trying to sort Nora with his questioning, it feels like he knows she is town and is trying to manipulate her into saying something incriminating.

VOTE: bob

I regret to inform you that Bob has Day 1 immunity due to being

Spoiler:

a fking legend

In response to Datisi and Menalque calling me arrogant - not actually true, it's mostly just tongue-in-cheek really!

I'm aware my scumhunting record overall is pretty marginal at best, although on my day I can be very good, and am improving with age. I generally do my best work when i don't post so much, however that's also less fun!

Mm, sorry then i suppose, I don’t think I was getting your sense of humour very well

Also I want to say I’ve read a couple of games by you fairly recently and your reads were noticeably above average in both, which is why you being wrong on me is comparatively more concerning

All good brother - and thanks for the compliment! Always nice to meet a fan...ok I'll stop.

On a serious note, you haven't pinged me that much, and I like to throw some stuff around early to see how people react, it ain't always super serious. I'll re-evaluate later in the day, once things settle down. Then we'll see if I'm right/wrong about reads.

[Battle Mage]

that stream of logic is easy to follow from datisi and the way they articulate their thoughts are geniune and pretty indicative of a solving mindset? so +townpoints to datisi

cringey buddying yuck yuck yuck

[Battle Mage]

So I guess I’m struggling to see what the town!otivation was in you shutting that down early

I dislike this. I'm not super down on the gambit, but I think using it to shade Ico is not good. Basically feels like you running that play set him up to fail however he reacted. I think he probably took the least scummy approach by being honest about it, although really whatever he did, you could have framed it negatively.

Why is me voting you something that’s more likely to be from scum!me than town!me?

burden of proficiency

LOL. if you'd like to kiss my butt too, I'm all ears.

[Battle Mage]

So I guess I’m struggling to see what the town!otivation was in you shutting that down early

no u

I mean there may not have been oudles of town!motivation in me doing it in the first place as opposed to “lol icon’s in the game what are we going with today”

But it was generating discussion and idk why you decided to close that down early by outing it

in retrospect im surprised how little discussion it generated.

[Battle Mage]

[snip]
i don't know if it is (and @BM you're free to jump in here and correct me) but that's kinda the impression i got (since tbh the thing kinda looked like a pissing contest)

Sorry I don't even know what he's talking about dude, help a brother out!? You're probably right though, so I'll just agree with you in ignorance

what i was trying to say is that the impression i got from your menalque "read" is that it's a joke? like what i read was "hurr durr i could flip you if i wanted to" "no u" "u wanna go m8?", and i'm saying, if you *do* have a legit scumread on menalque, (1) correct me and (2) tell me more

and considering i see a mena vote in your next post, i guess i was wrong?

Not entirely a joke but not super serious either. Just a bit of feeling out.

oh yeah, there actually is one (1) thing bothering me about BM, but later

pedit: pls let me post

ooh don't tease me!

[Battle Mage]

I also think you nisunderstanding what I’m saying in a hyperbolic way is scummy fwiw

why is sarcasm scummy tho

Why are you engaging with this and not the rest of my post?

But hyperbole is scummy because it’s often a scum tactic to discredit what the person is saying. It’s reductio ad absurdum — instead of dealing with the actual reasons I said you’re scummy, you scale it to “mena is saying you can’t change stances or flip your reads or you’re scum” which is clearly a bonkers thing to say and undermines my (very valid) actual reasons for why I think you’re scum

I agree with this, although for a different reason I think. The emotiveness of it just felt very "please feel sorry for me, I'm being attacked for doing reasonable things, how can a gal ever get away with a lil murder in this town?"

Having said that, I've been bitten by this one before, so will exercise a little caution.

[Battle Mage]

So I guess I’m struggling to see what the town!otivation was in you shutting that down early

no u

I mean there may not have been oudles of town!motivation in me doing it in the first place as opposed to “lol icon’s in the game what are we going with today”

But it was generating discussion and idk why you decided to close that down early by outing it

if you think i'm gonna let you have the joy of toying with me like that, dude

what you been smoking

Yes but at that point it’s no longer about you and me so much as it’s about how everyone else reacts to it

Esp as it was a v believable claim based on the public setup information which implies that there are neighbourhoods/masonries/neighbouriser in the game

but you werent worried about outting an actual masonry? seems even less good play for town in that light.

[Battle Mage]

jesus christ there's a lot to read through
gut after iso'ing nora is that they're more overeager/newbie town because it doesn't seem to me like newbscum would jump in and hypocritically tunnel someone.
VOTE: battlemage scumreading BM because i'm not a fan of their content. 385 gives me quite scummy vibes - it feels like something i wouldn't see town saying and it seems like BM is basically trying to use my words to say "noraa's scum, i'm town" but in a weirdly buddying way.

not a fan of my content? pfft. I would not be a fan of your content either, but eh...what content?

On serious note, I think this is fairly lazy - you claim to not be a fan of my content, but actually, your only objection is...

1 post...

...about you.

[Battle Mage]

my fun fact is that i think both Ico and Noraa are town, and they're both voting TheGoldenParadox for what i think are bad reasons, but i think they've managed to hit scum anyway

scumreading Iconeum because i don't really see their logic on voting me as being town-motivated - my vote will stay where it is for now, but that will change if ico gets noticably scummier.

you're looking really defensive to me right now, so while i'm staying with my light townlean, i'm not confident in it either.

neither of these quotes feel like TGP is talking his reads as about actual opinions that he has, they feel like they are conscious choices that he is making, and the way he is threatening to upgrade them to scumreads to try to get the people voting him to back off is scummy as hell.

also, the progression from

rn i think noraa is just newbie town, but being confident in bm!scum within the first day doesn't really scream town; noraa will stay at a light townread.

to

also nora's reads on menal and me scream newbtown.

to

do i think your scumreads on menal and me are legitimate instead of simply trying to generate empty content? no, not really.

in the space of like half an hour makes absolutely no sense

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

was he just catching up on the game? if so, kinda figures his reads would evolve quickly.

[Battle Mage]

neither of these quotes feel like TGP is talking his reads as about actual opinions that he has

...i don't know how the word 'about' managed to move a whole three places to the right in this sentence. "talking about his reads as", that should say.

you were re-reading the post later then eh? why?

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: iamausername

[Battle Mage]

Im feeling a slight lean town lean on golden, as if golden was partnered with either of bm or noraa i just dont think he would come in and push the fresh idea that they are just scum getting in early bussing.

Especially after choosing to vote for the one with the largest wagon. Of the two players he has stated as being svs. And not only that but a fourth vote on the first wagon. An ice breaker often done by town.

Golden is a townlean because he isn't scum with Noraa? eh, I don't know man, needs a re-think. Noraa and me is either T v S, or T v T. In either case, scum benefit from pushing the S v S agenda to guarantee at least 1 mislynch, if not two.

[Battle Mage]

the Datisi and ShellyC debate about rolefishing is odd.

Datisi correctly accuses ShellyC of rolefishing
ShellyC denies it
Datisi incorrectly implies the rolefishing was scum indicative

Datisi - Why wouldn't Shelly rolefish there? Seems perfectly reasonable to me - I did the same thing. Which leads me to my next question - why only single her out?

ShellyC - Why pretend you didn't rolefish when you did? Worried about getting bad attention?

[Battle Mage]

"ico please confirm if you're in a pt" and voting him when he continued ignoring you about that felt very much like a rolefish

I want to hear explanations from people and I vote for them to pressure them into giving explanations

is that not valid

nobody said that voting people to pressure them into giving explanations isn't "valid"???

i'm saying the subject that you were pressing on is scummy

no, that's wrong, and you are better than that.

i'm saying the subject that you were pressing on is scummy

I interpreted that as my vote being scummy

you could see it as rolefish but idrt finding out about a neighbourhood is discovering some real amazing PR

you need a lawyer.

shelly i think you missed this too (response to 429 i think)

taylor could be scum with someone of {BM, Noraa} not ruling out TvS just yet

besides whats scum motivation for taylor to step into a tvt shitfight, they can just hang out in the shadows

i mean the scum!motivation for egging on a tvt fight is pretty simple lol, keep the idiots tunneled at eachother

not a fan on this.

[Battle Mage]

my fun fact is that i think both Ico and Noraa are town, and they're both voting TheGoldenParadox for what i think are bad reasons, but i think they've managed to hit scum anyway

scumreading Iconeum because i don't really see their logic on voting me as being town-motivated - my vote will stay where it is for now, but that will change if ico gets noticably scummier.

you're looking really defensive to me right now, so while i'm staying with my light townlean, i'm not confident in it either.

neither of these quotes feel like TGP is talking his reads as about actual opinions that he has, they feel like they are conscious choices that he is making, and the way he is threatening to upgrade them to scumreads to try to get the people voting him to back off is scummy as hell.

also, the progression from

rn i think noraa is just newbie town, but being confident in bm!scum within the first day doesn't really scream town; noraa will stay at a light townread.

to

also nora's reads on menal and me scream newbtown.

to

do i think your scumreads on menal and me are legitimate instead of simply trying to generate empty content? no, not really.

in the space of like half an hour makes absolutely no sense

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

was he just catching up on the game? if so, kinda figures his reads would evolve quickly.

i was to some extent, but those three reads are entirely self-consistent. i think noraa is newbtown, i'm not confident about that read so it's more of a lean, but their actual reads are not reads that i believe are helpful or incredibly legitimate. town, especially newbtown, can generate empty content as well as opposed to actual reads, and town can create fluff. i know i did that when i was newbtown.

neither of these quotes feel like TGP is talking his reads as about actual opinions that he has

...i don't know how the word 'about' managed to move a whole three places to the right in this sentence. "talking about his reads as", that should say.

you were re-reading the post later then eh? why?

VOTE: iamausername

i really don't like this vote, but

i haven't played with BM and don't know if this is normal for them

- if someone has, that would be cool to know. for now, that vote feels really... random to me in a game that is by now definitely out of RVS,

especially for you, BM

.

I don't like some things about you.

1. I don't like how you over-egg things with emotive language like "really" all the time, to try and bolster your weak positions. In reality it just makes it look like you are tailspinning out of control.
2. I don't like how you have singled me (and only me?) out twice, with very little justification, for 2 unrelated, random and not particularly credible things. The second is worse, and feels a little like scum just trying to buy consistency points by targetting the same player, but being fundamentally too lazy to come up with anything robust.
3. I don't like that in red above, you initially acknowledged you hadn't played with me, and had no idea what my normal play is. Then in blue above, you pretend you do know how I play to strengthen your argument.

I'm amused that you didn't just lap up my defence of you, as it's consistent with my hypothesis - you are trying to keep targetting me to avoid attention - it wouldn't do to simply agree with me, even if you actually did, you had to spin in a way which made it sound like I was wrong (which in isolation, actually makes you look worse anyway).

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Golden Paradox

I got one, ma.

[Battle Mage]

Datisi - Why wouldn't Shelly rolefish there? Seems perfectly reasonable to me - I did the same thing. Which leads me to my next question - why only single her out?

funny story, that's The One Thing that was bothering me about you in 455

and because it can lead to unnecessarily outing TPRs?

I think you've got it twisted fella. Falsely claiming a TPR can unnecessarily out a TPR. So look to Menalque, and Menalque alone, on that one. Ok, and slightly Ico for taking a while to deny it.

Once the claim had been made, it was completely sensible to try to resolve what the fk it meant. That's just trying to solve the game innit.

[Battle Mage]

Datisi - Why wouldn't Shelly rolefish there? Seems perfectly reasonable to me - I did the same thing. Which leads me to my next question - why only single her out?

funny story, that's The One Thing that was bothering me about you in 455

and because it can lead to unnecessarily outing TPRs?

I think you've got it twisted fella. Falsely claiming a TPR can unnecessarily out a TPR. So look to Menalque, and Menalque alone, on that one. Ok, and slightly Ico for taking a while to deny it.

Once the claim had been made, it was completely sensible to try to resolve what the fk it meant. That's just trying to solve the game innit.

can i call in the meta argument of "i have seen town!mena do this and while i might have feelings about it i'm aware it's not AI for him"?

No, because your read on Mena isn't relevant. You're suggesting other players are scummy for risking outting a PR, when that isn't true.

[Battle Mage]

So look to Menalque, and Menalque alone, on that one

You mean the fakeclaim? Why would real masons/neighbours feel any need to CC me?

you're asking Datisi right? As that was his assertion.

I skimmed earlier while my friend went to the loo mid drinking session and while BM’s posts didn’t really do anything for me alignment-wise they did remind me of why I enjoyed reading his posts in the previous games of his that I’ve seen

aww shucks.

[Battle Mage]

I dislike this. I'm not super down on the gambit, but I think using it to shade Ico is not good. Basically feels like you running that play set him up to fail however he reacted. I think he probably took the least scummy approach by being honest about it, although really whatever he did, you could have framed it negatively.

Is this not somewhat undermined by the fact that in spite of me disliking icon ruining my gambit I still think he’s town more likely than not?

it would have been, if that's what had happened. Unfortunately, it's difficult to re-write history in the battlegrounds of FORUM MAFIA.

[Battle Mage]

my fun fact is that i think both Ico and Noraa are town, and they're both voting TheGoldenParadox for what i think are bad reasons, but i think they've managed to hit scum anyway

scumreading Iconeum because i don't really see their logic on voting me as being town-motivated - my vote will stay where it is for now, but that will change if ico gets noticably scummier.

you're looking really defensive to me right now, so while i'm staying with my light townlean, i'm not confident in it either.

neither of these quotes feel like TGP is talking his reads as about actual opinions that he has, they feel like they are conscious choices that he is making, and the way he is threatening to upgrade them to scumreads to try to get the people voting him to back off is scummy as hell.

also, the progression from

rn i think noraa is just newbie town, but being confident in bm!scum within the first day doesn't really scream town; noraa will stay at a light townread.

to

also nora's reads on menal and me scream newbtown.

to

do i think your scumreads on menal and me are legitimate instead of simply trying to generate empty content? no, not really.

in the space of like half an hour makes absolutely no sense

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

was he just catching up on the game? if so, kinda figures his reads would evolve quickly.

i was to some extent, but those three reads are entirely self-consistent. i think noraa is newbtown, i'm not confident about that read so it's more of a lean, but their actual reads are not reads that i believe are helpful or incredibly legitimate. town, especially newbtown, can generate empty content as well as opposed to actual reads, and town can create fluff. i know i did that when i was newbtown.

neither of these quotes feel like TGP is talking his reads as about actual opinions that he has

...i don't know how the word 'about' managed to move a whole three places to the right in this sentence. "talking about his reads as", that should say.

you were re-reading the post later then eh? why?

VOTE: iamausername

i really don't like this vote, but

i haven't played with BM and don't know if this is normal for them

- if someone has, that would be cool to know. for now, that vote feels really... random to me in a game that is by now definitely out of RVS,

especially for you, BM

.

I don't like some things about you.

1. I don't like how you over-egg things with emotive language like "really" all the time, to try and bolster your weak positions. In reality it just makes it look like you are tailspinning out of control.
2. I don't like how you have singled me (and only me?) out twice, with very little justification, for 2 unrelated, random and not particularly credible things. The second is worse, and feels a little like scum just trying to buy consistency points by targetting the same player, but being fundamentally too lazy to come up with anything robust.
3. I don't like that in red above, you initially acknowledged you hadn't played with me, and had no idea what my normal play is. Then in blue above, you pretend you do know how I play to strengthen your argument.

I'm amused that you didn't just lap up my defence of you, as it's consistent with my hypothesis - you are trying to keep targetting me to avoid attention - it wouldn't do to simply agree with me, even if you actually did, you had to spin in a way which made it sound like I was wrong (which in isolation, actually makes you look worse anyway).

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Golden Paradox

I got one, ma.

lit, glad you think so. to clarify - "especially for you, BM" was because you specifically were in a fight with nora and had produced quite a bit of content. and no,

i won't lap up your buddying attempts

. sorry bout it.

It's too colloquial in my book. Just empty shade, with nothing backing it up. As is the red above. I definitely haven't buddied with you (you'd know it if I did, eh Bob? ). You're just limply clutching at straws to try and appear like you are scumhunting.

Reading your previous games was not hugely conclusive about your alignment. You tend to get eliminated Day 1 all the freakin' time, so not much data to work with. You seem to be slightly higher on effort as scum, which goes in your favour here. However you are also decidedly more aggressive as town - and here you've been pretty gentle which is more like your scumgame.

[Battle Mage]

mmmm so I'm not too sure what I'm thinking about this game atm however I have a few things I dont like so far

BM changes votes far too often. I think this is scummy bc scums will flip flop a shit ton since what's going thru their mind is gonna be something like : "hmm good limbait here. ooo better limbait here. oh maybe the first limbait was better etc etc"

Not too sure if that's correct but uh ... that's how I am when I'm scum so yeah.

A wonderful insight into your own play. NAI for me I'm afraid. I am capable of moving my vote frequently as town and scum. In the battleground of FORUM MAFIA, my vote is my sword. I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve with the above though? Didn't you already make your mind up I was definitely scum? It's a bit late to pretend to sort me now.

Golden dude gives me some scumvibes bc of him changing his vote and moving it off of me and onto BM. It reads really scummy considering he somehow just overlooked the fact that I'm noob as hell but then realized it reading it again? Idk something's fishy over there.

hot take, you're right, Golden dude is scum.

[Battle Mage]

I dislike this. I'm not super down on the gambit, but I think using it to shade Ico is not good. Basically feels like you running that play set him up to fail however he reacted. I think he probably took the least scummy approach by being honest about it, although really whatever he did, you could have framed it negatively.

Is this not somewhat undermined by the fact that in spite of me disliking icon ruining my gambit I still think he’s town more likely than not?

it would have been, if that's what had happened. Unfortunately, it's difficult to re-write history in the battlegrounds of FORUM MAFIA.

I literally don’t understand this post

Like that is what happened no? That I didn’t end up shading icon for it and TR him instead? Or TL’d or whatever

post 563 was presumably in response to you shading Ico. Otherwise none of this conversation makes any sense. I don't think either of us necessarily care enough to look back.

[Battle Mage]

Datisi - Why wouldn't Shelly rolefish there? Seems perfectly reasonable to me - I did the same thing. Which leads me to my next question - why only single her out?

funny story, that's The One Thing that was bothering me about you in 455

and because it can lead to unnecessarily outing TPRs?

I think you've got it twisted fella. Falsely claiming a TPR can unnecessarily out a TPR. So look to Menalque, and Menalque alone, on that one. Ok, and slightly Ico for taking a while to deny it.

Once the claim had been made, it was completely sensible to try to resolve what the fk it meant. That's just trying to solve the game innit.

can i call in the meta argument of "i have seen town!mena do this and while i might have feelings about it i'm aware it's not AI for him"?

No, because your read on Mena isn't relevant. You're suggesting other players are scummy for risking outting a PR, when that isn't true.

except you were the one trying to get mena into this? like "if you think risking outting PRs is scummy, look at mena"? i'm saying why i'm giving him a "pass" while not the others

if your argument as a whole is "risking outting PRs isn't scummy period" (which i guess it is) then i guess agree to disagree?

Nah, I don't consider that "getting Mena into this". My point was that you shaded me and shellyc(?) for doing something we hadn't done, but which menalque had done. It isn't me trying to get him into anything - it's making the point that your argument was not valid or, on the face of it, consistent (notwithstanding your relationship with mena, which i acknowledge).

To be extra clear, I did not risk outting a PR by trying to get people to confirm their existing claims. Nor did Shelly. The only ones who did were Menalque and possibly slightly Ico. You suggesting otherwise, is scummy to me, because you're an experienced player and Mod and you know that ain't right.

Misrepping me is no bueno.

[Battle Mage]

i'm in favour of elimming in the pool of 'lurkers' today, to stop the game stagnating. anyone with fewer than 15 posts so far.

Which means: Dox, Taylor, Piis and Iama.

I think you know I like Dox for the blox.

[Battle Mage]

Didn't you already make your mind up I was definitely scum? It's a bit late to pretend to sort me now.

Golden dude gives me some scumvibes bc of him changing his vote and moving it off of me and onto BM. It reads really scummy considering he somehow just overlooked the fact that I'm noob as hell but then realized it reading it again? Idk something's fishy over there.

hot take, you're right, Golden dude is scum.

Wtf. I put more thought into my read on u in attempts to sort u better and u just try to brush it aside with this thats basically the equivalent of "yeah that was just her tunneling ignore it"

Saying "hot take, you're right, Golden dude is scum" is not in the least bit helpful. I couldn't care less whether or not scum!BM agrees with me.

LOL. You're attacking me for pointing out you have already made your mind up I am scum and are not trying to sort my slot. Then in the same post, you say you don't care I agreed with you about something because I'm scum.

I guess it's you and Golden - who else?

[Battle Mage]

I've barely rolled town as shown by my only finished games being scum games but that doesn't mean that my reads are bad. Whether or not they *sound* good is one thing. Whether or not they are accurate is another. I couldn't care less that ur more experienced here than me. I'm putting my reads out there and you shouldn't be discrediting them.

You have 2 reads. One I know is wrong. The other I

agreed with

.

Yet, in response, you bitch and moan about it.

I don't get it.

I figure you're just scum who cba to read.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage

You have no way out of this, scum!BM

as discussed, i'm not interested in anything you say until you make some effort to read the thread and engage constructively. Will ignore, with discretion to point out scumminess.

[Battle Mage]

To be extra clear, I did not risk outting a PR by

trying to get people to confirm their existing claims

. Nor did Shelly. The only ones who did were Menalque and possibly slightly Ico. You suggesting otherwise, is scummy to me, because you're an experienced player and Mod and you know that ain't right.

the bolded is what i see as risking outting PRs - there's a chance the claim is a meme, there's a chance it's wifom. i'm not saying it's "good" play by any means. but trying to get the claims to be either confirmed or denied is imo risking outting them ("further")

i didn't think for a second it was a meme, nor did i anticipate someone fakeclaiming neighbour as a gambit. I don't think that's my fault.

[Battle Mage]

Im feeling a slight lean town lean on golden, as if golden was partnered with either of bm or noraa i just dont think he would come in and push the fresh idea that they are just scum getting in early bussing.

Especially after choosing to vote for the one with the largest wagon. Of the two players he has stated as being svs. And not only that but a fourth vote on the first wagon. An ice breaker often done by town.

Golden is a townlean because he isn't scum with Noraa? eh, I don't know man, needs a re-think. Noraa and me is either T v S, or T v T. In either case, scum benefit from pushing the S v S agenda to guarantee at least 1 mislynch, if not two.

Golden is a townlean because he isn't scum with Noraa? eh, I don't know man, needs a re-think. Noraa and me is either T v S, or T v T. In either case, scum benefit from pushing the S v S agenda to guarantee at least 1 mislynch, if not two


I'm leaning towards it being tvt. My gut keeps telling me that noraa is just a fellow townie who has made a bad early push. Certainly the possibility that its tvs as noraas push was rather scummy. But the fact she didn't try and back track on her push on you. Even when she was asked why she thought it was scummy rather than just anti-town. She continued to push a set of reads on you that ultimately stemmed from that flawed premises.

I dont agree with this. I can definitely see why people would SR my tunneling however it was far less aggressive than BM's tunneling. And tunneling that hard in the first ten damn pages is not something town would do bc town know literally nothing about the setup and are lost asf before some flips. I could see scum doing it but I can't see town doing that. I dont see how my logic is flawed. Tunneling that aggressively is definitely a scumtell.

BORING

[Battle Mage]

So if i'm right on norra. Then based on the fact that golden jumped on norra with a brief initial post, pushing noraa up to e-3. Although shortly later he did elaborate.


This is something I find is done more by town than scum. Although if i'm wrong on nora being a fellow townie. Then that does undermine that aspect of the read. As simply I've only seen one scum wagon reach 4 in rvs and the 4th vote was that player's partner.

I played a newbie game a few months ago where we nearly lynched scum on page 1 due to an over-eager RVS wagon. we still won

[Battle Mage]

So if i'm right on norra. Then based on the fact that golden jumped on norra with a brief initial post, pushing noraa up to e-3. Although shortly later he did elaborate.

This is something I find is done more by town than scum. Although if i'm wrong on nora being a fellow townie. Then that does undermine that aspect of the read. As simply I've only seen one scum wagon reach 4 in rvs and the 4th vote was that player's partner.

er, not sure i get the first part? like why is golden being town for jumping on noraa wagon dependant on noraa being town?

pedit: lol battle mage, never had VTs memeclaim roles only to then have actual PRs counterclaim them? you're missing out man

i'm showing my age here, but i don't really know what a memeclaim is.

[Battle Mage]

i'm in favour of elimming in the pool of 'lurkers' today, to stop the game stagnating. anyone with fewer than 15 posts so far.

Which means: Dox, Taylor, Piis and Iama.

I think you know I like Dox for the blox.

Approved.

Alonzo, did you notice that you were missing from this list even though you fit the criteria at the time?

are you approving lurker purge in general, or specifically the Golden Paradox wagon?

he actually didn't - he had 15 posts at the time I posted. Although more importantly, Golden had 14.

[Battle Mage]

off to bed now! i may not sleep well of course, knowing that scumhunter nora is onto me.

[Battle Mage]

cringey buddying yuck yuck yuck

idc, I feel like being liberal with TRs isn’t a scum tell

it's more nuanced than that - you're over-simplifying. Being liberal with TRs isn't necessarily scummy, but the way you do it can be interpretted as such. Does that make sense?

[Battle Mage]

to stop the game stagnating.

In Alonzo's ISO, but this jumped out. In what way is this game remotely stagnating? Dont get me wrong, Im a fan of lurker lynches and down with the proposal, but dont understand this pitch for it.

i was just kidding my dude

[Battle Mage]

So if i'm right on norra. Then based on the fact that golden jumped on norra with a brief initial post, pushing noraa up to e-3. Although shortly later he did elaborate.

This is something I find is done more by town than scum. Although if i'm wrong on nora being a fellow townie. Then that does undermine that aspect of the read. As simply I've only seen one scum wagon reach 4 in rvs and the 4th vote was that player's partner.

er, not sure i get the first part? like why is golden being town for jumping on noraa wagon dependant on noraa being town?

pedit: lol battle mage, never had VTs memeclaim roles only to then have actual PRs counterclaim them? you're missing out man

It's a town lean based on the fact I don't feel that scum would jump on nora if she was in town that way at that point of the wagon. It was the first wagon to form and was pretty much still within rvs. Even if it wasn't even based on rvs votes.

And more often than not that first wagon is in fact all town with it being on town more often than scum.

Don't think i have ever seen scum jump onto that 4th spot. Especially not with their first vote that also inst a rvs Vote. As Well as being their first post in the game.

However, when that first wagon is scum I don't seem to hold back as much. Only seen one scum wagon in rvs and that was bussed quickly in that fourth spot. So dont know how true it holds for scum wagons.

And since i'm leaning toward Noraa being town on balance I think golden is likely town if i'm right on nora.

oh man, i think you wrong! Golden scum for certz.

[Battle Mage]

you think mena and bob are scum together?

I think both are good fits for mages partner.

da fuq? i dont have a partner. please try harder.

srsly, having all your reads hinge on 1 flip by association is classic scumplay, as it would allow you to start from scratch when i flip town.

[Battle Mage]

Who knows what about Bob?

Anyone played against him before?

I think I've only ever played with him as town. He's very good - as noted earlier, most underrated town player on the site in my view.

[Battle Mage]

also pointing out that one's capability to make coherent thoughts isn't town!indicative

have you not played in smuggler's?

dat shade on datisi wow: 'i don't know this player at all, but i'm SURE it produces content so it must be scum here'

i'm more wary about the fact that i *have* been producing content but

ico, why does the game benefit from noraa flip? what do we learn?

i vaguely remember KICKING YOUR ASS there yeah

because noraa right now is 1 of 2 things:

1) town who is incapable and apparently unwilling to try and establish a cooperation with others, completely tunneled in in a slot that (most? at least some) players are saying is town, and completely unsorting otherwise

2) scum

neither i wanna keep in the game, and i've called noraaaaa out to try and break the tunnel a bit, to give us something to work with

failing to do so… yeah. A good flip. On top of that there have been quite a few statements about the noraa v bm fight, so there *are* things to be learned upon a flip.

I agree 1000% with this.

[Battle Mage]

yes let me tell you how much you should have me as locktown on page 3

...you hadn't even posted by page 3?

i was being sarcastic. you were telling people that they should have sorted you as town by then. it was page 3, there wasnt much content, and most people hadnt posted. thanks for proving my point.

shouldn't you like, focus on back-up modding this game?

because you are THE WORST.

[Battle Mage]

ah, i'm taking a break from this one, you guys spam so much!

I'll be watching though!

BM, hot take

noraa counter tunneling and omgus'ing you isn't scum!indicative
noraa using the newbie card to get out of jail for free is NAI, because scum!noraa would probably be using that as much as town!noraa

I disagree, but the jury's out on everyone really - I'm not lock-scum on Noraa or anything mad. I think there's going to be high volume posting in this game, so I'm going to take more of a backseat and share my observations later.

In response to Datisi and Menalque calling me arrogant - not actually true, it's mostly just tongue-in-cheek really!

I'm aware my scumhunting record overall is pretty marginal at best, although on my day I can be very good, and am improving with age. I generally do my best work when i don't post so much, however that's also less fun! Also pressuring newbies in non-newbie games is just objectively the right thing to do.

this sequence is funny with BM saying hes gonna take a back seat/break and then immediately BM posted ~10 more times

I'm an addict ok! Are you in the midst of a trolling spree right now? If so, I'll come back and post some serious content later...

[Battle Mage]

ooh sweet pagetop

[Battle Mage]

In no specific order (copy pasta from mod post), and to varying degrees of townread, here are my townies for today:

NOT FLIPPING TODAY

Alonzo
Iconeum
iamausername
Datisi
teacher
Battle Mage
bob3141
shellyc
Menalque

WOULD FLIP TODAY

TheGoldenParadox/Noraa
piisirrational/Tayl0r Swift

Wow you're a lot fussier than me. Also I will put it on record, I am very impressed with Ico play in this game. I don't recall him being this sensible and constructive in previous games. It's an MVP performance here so far. Not sure what means for alignment though.

[Battle Mage]

Like you weren’t under any pressure really

I wasn’t under a lot of pressure
Even if I were scum it’s not like I could use that to push you to an elim bc when you flipped it would prove I was lying

this is bad. the fake-claim was bad. the fake claim was only not that bad because it was obviously fake. if this post is genuine its town-indicative because youre upset that your gambit failed. but its far more likely that this post isnt really genuine and you were hoping to get a townie to give you free towncred by fake-claiming a neighborhood. you werent under that much pressure anyway, it was like page 5. i think town!you knows its early game and theres no need to be concerned about a little pressure.

i agree the fakeclaim was bad, but not sold on your conclusion.

[Battle Mage]

Dear Noraa,

I'd like you to read this post carefully, as I'm going to extend a proverbial olive branch to you, in the knowledge that it's possible you might be town. I'm only doing this once, and to be clear, I'm not doing so to try and make you townread me, nor is this an attempt to judge your alignment. I'm communicating with you 'out of character' to try and be helpful and constructive to your development, as I do when I'm an SE player in a newbie game.

I'm doing so because if you're town, I don't want you to leave this game with the feeling of "damn, that BM was so scummy, it was all his fault, I didn't get any enjoyment or educational value from that experience at all". Even if you're scum, as a new player, it would be preferable if you leave this game having gained some valuable experience and knowledge about expectations of town players.

My head says you're giving off lots of textbook scumtells, and like Ico, I'm slightly biased towards eliminating you early in the knowledge you might be town who distracts from eliminating scum and basically a liability at endgame. My heart says you're probably just town - I had a similar experience with a newbie (in a newbie game) a couple months ago which ended pretty badly, and he ended up being town.

Please therefore take this advice, and it is only my opinion from my own experience, in good faith. You are free to think I'm scum before, during and after, but please actually read this and take on board.

1. You and I have no personal beef. I did put you under significant pressure early in the game, and would not have done so had this been a newbie game. However, because this is a normal game, I treat everyone as having a reasonable level of experience by default. You felt I tunnel-visioned you, but I didn't. I tested you, partly because I felt you were newer and more likely to slip up if you were scum. Is it exploitative? Yes, but outside the road to rome, I've always considered everyone fair-game. You are free to look at other completed games of mine, to see that it's just an approach I use - and I do so regardless of alignment, so it's neither an inherent scumtell or towntell.

2. Pretending to tunnel-vision to put pressure on somebody is often good. Actually tunnel-visioning somebody is bad. However, I can say that even as an experienced veteran, I have tunnel-visioned and normally done very badly as a result. In one large theme game, I single-handedly cost town the game by tunnel-visioning. I don't claim to be the world's best mafia player, but I've played a lot of games over the years, and I try hard to improve. Nowadays I'm much more chilled and try to continually re-evaluate people. It doesn't really matter if I get it right first time, the goal is to get the right answer in the end, and if that means admitting my earlier suspicions were wrong, so be it. On a personal level, if you all you do in a game is attack one player, and that player ends up being town, you've essentially just been a detriment to the town. Giving opinions on other players means you make a bigger contribution to the town wincon. Throwing around terms like "confscum" won't do you any favours in terms of building credibility. Saying things like "I think bm is basically a confscum(at least in my head) which is why imma tunnel some more and hopefully get a good case on him bc I want a bm lim today" is obviously problematic for me, because it's acknowledging that you are focussed on trying to create something to prove yourself right, rather than looking at things objectively, and assuming I'm town in this case and unlikely to actually be lunched, it risks making you a redundant player who is not playing for the town and should be policy-elimmed. If you try to actually solve my slot by asking me questions and engaging with me, you'll find it fruitful and insightful. Otherwise, I'm not motivated to engage because you have already made your mind up.

3. You're right not to just give up, but keep an open mind. When Golden told you to abandon your BM-scumread because nobody else agrees with you, I think you were justified in standing by it. Just because nobody agrees with you, doesn't mean you're wrong, and there are scum in this game who will try to influence you, so having a backbone is a good thing. However, what if you're wrong, and I'm not scum? It's important to keep an open mind because, let's say I flip town - what then? I don't think you will want to go and re-read the whole game again. Also, if I'm town, you focussing only on me means that scum can get away with more, and distracts the rest of the town from doing good work. In other words, the key is striking a balance - suspect people but also keep looking and re-evaluating as you go. People will take you much more seriously if they think you are actively scumhunting, rather than trying to find things to confirm your own presumptions. Additionally, even if you're right about me, you're not gaining anything by trying to elim me today because it won't happen - so if I was scum, you'd be better off trying to pick off my partner(s). Crucially, your job as town is not to "prove yourself correct" but to eliminate scum.

The reality is, as I've already claimed, I'm town in this game. But being wrong about my slot is fine. I just ask kindly that you engage with other things going on and make a wider contribution than just focussing entirely on me, which isn't productive for you or anybody else.

I hope this is helpful, and even if you aren't able to read it in good faith now, it's something you can return to after the game as part of a 'lessons learnt' exercise.

Kind regards,

BM

[Battle Mage]

uhh yeah this post scumpings hard wth
this is basically textbook manipulation VOTE: shelly

golden with this opportunistic wagon hopping

im not getting limmed today, you are

I don't quite see what you mean by opportunistic wagon hopping. Golden comes in with a read that he thinks noraa vs bm is actually svs. So at the point of the nora vote he claims to have scum read on both. And then later he says that he sees Nora as newb town. When he moves his vote to the other player he player he scum read at that point.

And his 3rd vote to you. Do you see all the votes as opportunistic or just the one on you. As that's the vote with least progression before it aswell as the one you quoted.

What i dont get is why the first thing you would think of is that he is being opportunistic. Maybe if it had pushed to l-1 or giving intent on that small post. But l-3 does feel like bit of exaggeration when its only pushed you to l-3. A point its sat at for the last day.

Forgetting that you claiming that you beleive the nature of his vot was opportunistic. what do you think of his read on you?

you wanna join me on Golden today, and you pick the flip tomorrow?

[Battle Mage]

Battlemage can you make your posts a little less blocky

It makes me read every line simultaneously

Sure:

uhh yeah this post scumpings hard wth
this is basically textbook manipulation VOTE: shelly

golden with this opportunistic wagon hopping

im not getting limmed today, you are

I don't quite see what you mean by opportunistic wagon hopping. Golden comes in with a read that he thinks noraa vs bm is actually svs. So at the point of the nora vote he claims to have scum read on both. And then later he says that he sees Nora as newb town. When he moves his vote to the other player he player he scum read at that point.

And his 3rd vote to you. Do you see all the votes as opportunistic or just the one on you. As that's the vote with least progression before it aswell as the one you quoted.

What i dont get is why the first thing you would think of is that he is being opportunistic. Maybe if it had pushed to l-1 or giving intent on that small post. But l-3 does feel like bit of exaggeration when its only pushed you to l-3. A point its sat at for the last day.

Forgetting that you claiming that you beleive the nature of his vot was opportunistic. what do you think of his read on you?

you wanna join me on Golden today, and you pick the flip tomorrow?

You

wanna

join

me

on

Golden

today,

and

you

pick

the

flip

tomorrow?

[Battle Mage]

Daddy, Ive been skimming all day but am still so behind! Play with me while I do some more ketchup.

sorry but this is creepy as fk. reminds me of a recent game where some dude was trying to get off with a minor. no bueno

[Battle Mage]

uhh yeah this post scumpings hard wth
this is basically textbook manipulation VOTE: shelly

golden with this opportunistic wagon hopping

im not getting limmed today, you are

I don't quite see what you mean by opportunistic wagon hopping. Golden comes in with a read that he thinks noraa vs bm is actually svs. So at the point of the nora vote he claims to have scum read on both. And then later he says that he sees Nora as newb town. When he moves his vote to the other player he player he scum read at that point.

And his 3rd vote to you. Do you see all the votes as opportunistic or just the one on you. As that's the vote with least progression before it aswell as the one you quoted.

What i dont get is why the first thing you would think of is that he is being opportunistic. Maybe if it had pushed to l-1 or giving intent on that small post. But l-3 does feel like bit of exaggeration when its only pushed you to l-3. A point its sat at for the last day.

Forgetting that you claiming that you beleive the nature of his vot was opportunistic. what do you think of his read on you?

you wanna join me on Golden today, and you pick the flip tomorrow?

My gut keeps telling me that he is town. He does feel opportunistic as he keeps jumping into the most high profile points of a wagon. With the only higher bits being l-1 and hammer

He came in without rvs and rushed into with a 4th slot vote that pushed noraa to l-3. Although little reasoning behind it at the time with 30 mins he had elaborated on his reasoning. I don't get if he was scum why there would be such a delay. Surely if he was scum he would have made them together. As it's not like he was near the prod time. If he was scum and he needed time to come up with a reason for his read. Wouldn't he have just posted the vote 30 mins later instead. Feels to me like hasty town.

An interesting point, I like it, but it's not enough to dissuade me.

[Battle Mage]

I have worked out what the Golden Paradox really is.

30 pages into a mini game, but having fewer posts than the Mod.

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself!

[Battle Mage]

I have worked out what the Golden Paradox really is.

30 pages into a mini game, but having fewer posts than the Mod.

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself!

Almost every game on this site that I remember playing has been under 100 pages total, with many under 50. I guess site meta has really shifted towards ridiculous post counts recently, or maybe it's just this PL? Anyways, I don't tend to post too much, but you can't disagree that I've posted substantive material, so I don't think noting my post count is really helpful here.

you're telling me! back in my day, 20 pages would be plenty!

I have no idea why you're trying to make a case that my post 839 was meant as a serious one, but I suspect it might take you another 50-100 pages to do so!

[Battle Mage]

Yoink vc

nice page near-bottom

vintage Gypyx

[Battle Mage]

yoink pagetop?

[Battle Mage]

I mean, there's a reason my signature says bottom text

I had assumed that was a reference to something much more sordid.

[Battle Mage]

is this the top

you're close brudda, i can see you

[Battle Mage]

I mean,

there's a reason

my signature says bottom text

I had assumed that was a reference to something much more sordid.

Well no that's

just a random signature

, you thought it was a reference to what?

This scumpinged me. In blue you claim there's a reason, and in red you claim it's random. Which is it!?

[Battle Mage]

the 3 players on bottom of the player list are:

shellyc
Noraa
Menalque

Maybe the Mod is hinting that there's at least 2 scum in that trio. Maybe best to start with Menalque and work our way up to be safe.

[Battle Mage]

wait am i right in thinking that menal shaded me for my RVS vote on shelly and then proceeded to join me on the shelly wagon? hmm i guess maybe im missing something in the 14 pages i havent read yet

all you really need to know is we are lunching golden today - any q's?

[Battle Mage]

would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

[Battle Mage]

would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

this is a bad post and you should feel bad for making it

for full disclosure, i was bored and avoiding work i had to, and this didn't necessarily reflect my heartfelt opinion at the time, nor at present.

However, I do not feel bad for posting it.

I simply feel negatively towards you for trying to guilt trip me for being a bad employee.

[Battle Mage]

im not caught up at all and I'm not really sure when I will be but I'll try to get caught up soon

dude, please at least read my long-ass post specifically to you, it took me like minutes to write

[Battle Mage]

yes boss!

Dear Noraa,

I'd like you to read this post carefully, as I'm going to extend a proverbial olive branch to you, in the knowledge that it's possible you might be town. I'm only doing this once, and to be clear, I'm not doing so to try and make you townread me, nor is this an attempt to judge your alignment. I'm communicating with you 'out of character' to try and be helpful and constructive to your development, as I do when I'm an SE player in a newbie game.

I'm doing so because if you're town, I don't want you to leave this game with the feeling of "damn, that BM was so scummy, it was all his fault, I didn't get any enjoyment or educational value from that experience at all". Even if you're scum, as a new player, it would be preferable if you leave this game having gained some valuable experience and knowledge about expectations of town players.

My head says you're giving off lots of textbook scumtells, and like Ico, I'm slightly biased towards eliminating you early in the knowledge you might be town who distracts from eliminating scum and basically a liability at endgame. My heart says you're probably just town - I had a similar experience with a newbie (in a newbie game) a couple months ago which ended pretty badly, and he ended up being town.

Please therefore take this advice, and it is only my opinion from my own experience, in good faith. You are free to think I'm scum before, during and after, but please actually read this and take on board.

1. You and I have no personal beef. I did put you under significant pressure early in the game, and would not have done so had this been a newbie game. However, because this is a normal game, I treat everyone as having a reasonable level of experience by default. You felt I tunnel-visioned you, but I didn't. I tested you, partly because I felt you were newer and more likely to slip up if you were scum. Is it exploitative? Yes, but outside the road to rome, I've always considered everyone fair-game. You are free to look at other completed games of mine, to see that it's just an approach I use - and I do so regardless of alignment, so it's neither an inherent scumtell or towntell.

2. Pretending to tunnel-vision to put pressure on somebody is often good. Actually tunnel-visioning somebody is bad. However, I can say that even as an experienced veteran, I have tunnel-visioned and normally done very badly as a result. In one large theme game, I single-handedly cost town the game by tunnel-visioning. I don't claim to be the world's best mafia player, but I've played a lot of games over the years, and I try hard to improve. Nowadays I'm much more chilled and try to continually re-evaluate people. It doesn't really matter if I get it right first time, the goal is to get the right answer in the end, and if that means admitting my earlier suspicions were wrong, so be it. On a personal level, if you all you do in a game is attack one player, and that player ends up being town, you've essentially just been a detriment to the town. Giving opinions on other players means you make a bigger contribution to the town wincon. Throwing around terms like "confscum" won't do you any favours in terms of building credibility. Saying things like "I think bm is basically a confscum(at least in my head) which is why imma tunnel some more and hopefully get a good case on him bc I want a bm lim today" is obviously problematic for me, because it's acknowledging that you are focussed on trying to create something to prove yourself right, rather than looking at things objectively, and assuming I'm town in this case and unlikely to actually be lunched, it risks making you a redundant player who is not playing for the town and should be policy-elimmed. If you try to actually solve my slot by asking me questions and engaging with me, you'll find it fruitful and insightful. Otherwise, I'm not motivated to engage because you have already made your mind up.

3. You're right not to just give up, but keep an open mind. When Golden told you to abandon your BM-scumread because nobody else agrees with you, I think you were justified in standing by it. Just because nobody agrees with you, doesn't mean you're wrong, and there are scum in this game who will try to influence you, so having a backbone is a good thing. However, what if you're wrong, and I'm not scum? It's important to keep an open mind because, let's say I flip town - what then? I don't think you will want to go and re-read the whole game again. Also, if I'm town, you focussing only on me means that scum can get away with more, and distracts the rest of the town from doing good work. In other words, the key is striking a balance - suspect people but also keep looking and re-evaluating as you go. People will take you much more seriously if they think you are actively scumhunting, rather than trying to find things to confirm your own presumptions. Additionally, even if you're right about me, you're not gaining anything by trying to elim me today because it won't happen - so if I was scum, you'd be better off trying to pick off my partner(s). Crucially, your job as town is not to "prove yourself correct" but to eliminate scum.

The reality is, as I've already claimed, I'm town in this game. But being wrong about my slot is fine. I just ask kindly that you engage with other things going on and make a wider contribution than just focussing entirely on me, which isn't productive for you or anybody else.

I hope this is helpful, and even if you aren't able to read it in good faith now, it's something you can return to after the game as part of a 'lessons learnt' exercise.

Kind regards,

BM

[Battle Mage]

now I'm actually off to sleep as I need to start work again in like 4 hours

[Battle Mage]

would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

this is a bad post and you should feel bad for making it

for full disclosure, i was bored and avoiding work i had to, and this didn't necessarily reflect my heartfelt opinion at the time, nor at present.

However, I do not feel bad for posting it.

I simply feel negatively towards you for trying to guilt trip me for being a bad employee.

sorry you dont get to make scummy posts and then just say "i didnt mean it!!!"

get real

[Battle Mage]

can everybody give like 2 people they want to elim today? would be good to get some hard data at this point.

[Battle Mage]

mine

[Battle Mage]

what a time to show up!

no i'm not scum. someone already asked me that.

will catch up in a bit

[Battle Mage]

i seriously hope Bunno is not going to do a trawl through every page and make up a bunch of reasons to call me scummy. mostly for his sake

from a skim, i'm not optimistic.

[Battle Mage]

I don't always get the chance to say this Bob,

as I always die Night 1

, but I love you, and respect you. You are probably the most under-rated town player on this whole website.

is this true...?

I don't think it was particularly the case back when I was around

It feels a bit too confident?

I would like an answer to this

How many games in the last 6 months did you die in N1?

I'll let this one slide as it made me laugh. My original comment was definitely hyperbole - and referenced the fact that I had been killed N1 in my previous 2 games, including at least 1 with Bob presumably.

Please explain what your angle is here? I'm curious as to why me using hyperbole about how frequently I die N1 in a bit of friendly chit-chat with Bob is noteworthy enough to mention - it gives the appearance of you being productive while actually wasting both our time (although as noted, it did amuse me! )

Also, your post sort of implies I should know who you are. Who are you?

[Battle Mage]

join date of June 2020...claims to be an old-timer...something does not compute with this Bunno character

[Battle Mage]

how does this not break trust tell rules? what do you do when someone asks you if you're scum and you are?

Its not a trust tell as if im wrong on him and he is scum. Then he did lie about his alignment after all

a trust tell is something like a player saying they never self vote as scum. And then self vote at the start every town game

so let's run through the cases.

BM is town, and BM is telling the truth that he will not lie about his alignment. this is tatamount to a trust tell, because he is basically saying "if you ask me my alignment, i will not lie," and meaning it, which means that he will gamethrow as scum.

BM is town, and this "i think lying is classless" is completely and utterly pulled out of his ass. in this case, he is BLATANTLY lying to the town, and i don't see any reason town!bm does this. even here, saying that a trust tell exists breaks site rules.

BM is scum, and this is an outright lie.

From my understanding, BM here is either scum or breaking site rules. can someone explain if i've made a mistake in my reasoning?

I don't even know what a trust tell is, but accusing me of breaking site rules is very serious. If you're doing so as a tactic to try and get me elimmed, as it appears, that's particularly bad form, and presumably against the rules itself. I will consult with the Mod.

[Battle Mage]

Golden, can you confirm whether you have reported me for a rule breach? And also which rule you believe I've broken?

[Battle Mage]

I've PMed the Mod about the rule breach allegation. I won't post further until a ruling has been made, in the interest of protecting the integrity of the game.

Which is disappointing as I have free time but ah well.

Also, in case I'm getting force-replaced, it's been fun y'all!

[Battle Mage]

nice pagetop

[Battle Mage]

also, i fking knew you were churros

[Battle Mage]

also, i fking knew you were churros

wtf I said it in my opening posts

i know but i figured it out before i read that

[Battle Mage]

can somebody do a tl;dr of any new rules in the last 7 years? asking for a friend... lol

[Battle Mage]

Oh ok scratch [Ico, Datisi, Bob] pool. I had forgot TGP and Iamusername exist. I do wonder if there's even more people I'm not aware of atm. I didn't double check the playerlist, it was feeling like too small of a room though...

I propose do Taylor and call it a day.

definitely TGP dude

[Battle Mage]

The important ones from the top of my head:

- Don't announce you're replacing out of games or try to get other people to replace. Don't comment on replacements either (I kinda broke it early but...)

- Don't use the L word if possible

- Trust tells

- Don't scumclaim together with someone else, even if it's false. Scum claiming by yourself is fine.

I wouldn't say the above is for the last 7 years though...maybe only for the last 3 - 4 years. I don't think there's anything else important though.

I was joking but thank you for the effort nonetheless!

[Battle Mage]

i think you asked about my VT claim, and whether it was some kind of gambit. It was not, i'm just a vt.

[Battle Mage]

I don't always get the chance to say this Bob,

as I always die Night 1

, but I love you, and respect you. You are probably the most under-rated town player on this whole website.

is this true...?

I don't think it was particularly the case back when I was around

It feels a bit too confident?

I would like an answer to this

How many games in the last 6 months did you die in N1?

I'll let this one slide as it made me laugh. My original comment was definitely hyperbole - and referenced the fact that I had been killed N1 in my previous 2 games, including at least 1 with Bob presumably.

Please explain what your angle is here? I'm curious as to why me using hyperbole about how frequently I die N1 in a bit of friendly chit-chat with Bob is noteworthy enough to mention - it gives the appearance of you being productive while actually wasting both our time (although as noted, it did amuse me! )

Also, your post sort of implies I should know who you are. Who are you?

You don't remember me but I played a game modded by firebringer with you. I thought you were scum in the first pages but you made a good unexpected fakeclaim (PT cop, if I remember right?) and I mistakenly TR you for that. You won the game by the way.

You played against scum!me in a game where I fakeclaimed investigative as well...

About the comment itself, it's just you seem very, very, very overconfident, I wanted to see if there's good reasons for that.

no brag man but i've legit won every game i played as scum this year - will probably surprise you to learn that. i remember both games, you were a good player in both. I think in the first one, it was slightly marred by some post-game anger or something? dunno, that was a win that felt a bit like a loss. the second one i replaced in late on, and immediately got elimmed but i believe i did have you correctly as scum. I can't remember who won.

[Battle Mage]

I would pick a very very cute anime avi for you BM

People would stare at your avi, think to themselves that cuteness is justice, and mirror all your votes

imagine that blessing for a moment

beautiful right?

Someone made me a bespoke avatar in a newbie game recently. I immediately NKed them the next night.

[Battle Mage]

oh; sorry, i didn't understand the whole eliminated thing but i get it now, my apologies. also apologies to bm if i made you uncomfortable, that was certainly not my intention and my mistake if i did, hope there are no personally hard feelings.

my read on BM will stay where it is. they've acted quite scummy this entire game, and considering they joined the site 13 years ago i don't think they get newbie points or can make any excuse along those lines. that being said, it's more of a scumlean after reevaluating the VT claim, which could be made by scum but seems more likely to come from town because it's locking scum out of a PR claim.

i'll go back and look at your case. I did see you helpfully did a colour coded readslist, which I wish others would emulate. On the face of it, I would say:

I don't know why you think I would be playing the newbie card - I don't think I have done.
I played between 2007 and 2012, and then in 2020 - so I haven't been playing for 13 years straight, but I have a lot of games under my belt.
I don't think I've acted scummy, and that seems to be the consensus view.

[Battle Mage]

no brag man but i've legit won every game i played as scum this year - will probably surprise you to learn that. i remember both games, you were a good player in both. I think in the first one, it was slightly marred by some post-game anger or something? dunno, that was a win that felt a bit like a loss. the second one i replaced in late on, and immediately got elimmed but i believe i did have you correctly as scum. I can't remember who won.

Both were sour games yes

I do remember you suspected me correctly yes

I'm not surprised at all, you do seem like a good player although I felt it was a bit too overconfident even considering that (I understand now it was tongue-in-check). The first game...hmm yeah there were some issues but let's move on. I still think it was a good game from both alignments overall.

i never went back to look at what had been said about me, i heard from others it was not pleasant. my overall view is, mafia is just a game and some ppl take it way too serious and personal. abusive behaviour never ok. i found it an enjoyable game though.

i didnt remember second game being sour, although i was only there for a brief spell i guess. my winrate as town is around 50% so im not that good a player lol

[Battle Mage]

"meta is trash"? an odd thing for a newbie who has never completed a game as town to say. Meta can be very useful, although it isn't a silver bullet. Also useful is the threat of meta - and the

"meta is trash" line is a real cheap

way to try and discourage people from using an alternative avenue for scrutinising others

Don't assume you or even people themselves know enough about themselves. In my 2 years experience meta has been a negative route for reads, often something disappoiting because many times I had a hunch for a scum read in the slot.

It's fine to use it but you've been posting about it non-stop.

agree it can be hit and miss, but the principle of it being an option should be encouraged.

im going from page 45 and working back so don't worry if i havent got to your stuff yet.

[Battle Mage]

Sending the role PM's, the game will start once i get 11/13 confirmations (currently 11/13)

Game has started, TheGoldenParadox and Battle Mage have 36 hours to confirm before being replaced

a replacement threat already? bloody hell. I'm vanilla town ok, just leave me alone!

[Battle Mage]

my winrate as town is around 50% so im not that good a player lol

don't sell yourself short, winrates aren't a good metric for individuals.

I'll stop here because I don't want to sound as if I'm pocketing.

you can't pocket me dude, dont worry

[Battle Mage]

I dont agree with this. I can definitely see why people would SR my tunneling however it was far less aggressive than BM's tunneling. And tunneling that hard in the first ten damn pages is not something town would do bc town know literally nothing about the setup and are lost asf before some flips. I could see scum doing it but I can't see town doing that. I dont see how my logic is flawed. Tunneling that aggressively is definitely a scumtell.

sweet summer child...

you're in for a ride in any game archives in this forum...

I don't

discredit

endorse

your read on BM though. I wouldn't go that far.

It pongs peeyoo

minor grammar correction as requested, in light of above.

[Battle Mage]

i have a feeling if we all agree not to ignore all Churros' 2 cents this game, we may be rich by the end of it!

[Battle Mage]

can everybody just spell out who they bloody suspect please? data will be needed in future days.

[Battle Mage]

i'm not mad about doing Taylor Swift. most importantly i want to see evidence of people actually looking at everyone, and giving reads, rather than the usual "I choose you" and then confbias BS.

I'm worried we're gonna get a Shelly flip imminently as she's as -2, and I don't feel we have enough info. Too much spam making it difficult to hold people to account for reads. You guys post too much...

[Battle Mage]

im also willing to give elim-immunity to anyone who can collate this data for me.

[Battle Mage]

bunno, just gimme a readslist man. otherwise i dont care. 50 pages and people flip-flopping like crap without questions ain't making me feel good.

[Battle Mage]

Noraa have you done anything to tune those reads since we last spoke?

wait til the weekend for that pls

might be night by then...

[Battle Mage]

fwiw, i'm not massively opposed to a shelly elim, but also dont want to rush anything when we have loads of time.

[Battle Mage]

I'd say
TT ^^ not churros , I am a username
Null BM , Noraa

TS -Bob- this isn't to say Bob hasn't produced content, but it feels monotone, like he's on autopilot.

Outside Bob IV had my attention diffusing / deciphering noraa /BM , and have deffered to wisdom of the crowd for reads on Taylor and Shelley.

ok thanks pal, so just 1 scumread - Bob?

[Battle Mage]

and Churros and iamausername as town already?

[Battle Mage]

I'd say
TT ^^ not churros , I am a username
Null BM , Noraa

TS -Bob- this isn't to say Bob hasn't produced content, but it feels monotone, like he's on autopilot.

Outside Bob IV had my attention diffusing / deciphering noraa /BM , and have deffered to wisdom of the crowd for reads on Taylor and Shelley.

** Not to say Taylor wasn't in scumchat bailing and not churros has come in and is tuning up the band for scum, this is a compelling case.

i can definitely vibe with the idea that Churros replaced in here with the intention of low-effort, and then realised his scumteam was completely falling apart and he has been doing more effort to bail them out of trouble. lots of the opening feels a bit over-friendly, and coachy.

[Battle Mage]

Readlists are lame and have got in my way more than helped me

readlists is just another thing everyone was doing and I followed but when put into question it doesn't help much at all

if you can change your mind on a town read, it's no town read at all. I'll give you my sparse thoughts

I feel good on you (BM) after some later posts.

Mena is ok for day 1.

Noraa/Shelly have troubling posts, but there is some good posts as well, fine for day 1.

Ico has some icky posting but I'm still sorting him out because there's good ones as well.

I'm unimpressed on Datisi/Iamusername

TGP everyone is been saying it's scummy, but I don't feel anything special about the slot. Can go either way easily.

Bob is icky

Taylor very icky

If you aren't here, probably null or I forgot.

thanks dude. For the benefit of others, this level of detail is acceptable, although I prefer colours and a bit more structure.

[Battle Mage]

- If my team mate is under fire, I come around, read the last posts to see where consensus is, acknowledge the consensus in thread, go read previous posts, TR my partner early, confidently defend him in the middle of the catchup, but in the very last posts make a huge deal out of a few posts and completely change my mind in a 1v1. Preferably doing it a lot faster than I currently did by not commenting on small things and by skipping lots of posts. It's important to do all the stages before many people come into the thread to say I'm partners with my team mate.

I think it's relatively unlikely you're scum with Taylor. I'd be more interested in a Bunno-Noraa or Bunno-Shelly pairing. Your behaviour towards Noraa was basically as you set out above.

I'm not posting anymore on this though -

I really want people to get the hint about posting readslists.

We can return to more discussion after.

Also, Shelly should consider claiming I think.

[Battle Mage]

if shelly has some whack claim, we'll know she's scum with Bunno haha

[Battle Mage]

PAGETOP

POST A READSLIST IMMEDIATELY

[Battle Mage]

My first town game finished. Go get meta if u want it. Newbie something ANCIENT ARTHROPODS

oof

ngl, townie ping from this scream-out

like, so eager to prove that itself is actually town and a big 'FUCK YOU I WAS TOWN ALL ALLOONNNGGGG' to us

fucking love it :p

My thoughts exactly. Although now I have a slight paranoia that Ico-scum could have coached her into doing that.

I guess Noraa townblock, at least for now?

it's a common practice to ask for a claim upon L-1 you know

no its common practice to ask for a claim when intent is stated

Stating intent

I'd like a Shelly claim. Although to be clear I don't want to actually end the day yet. Lots of people still haven't posted readslists - especially the quieter ones.

[Battle Mage]

it's a common practice to ask for a claim upon L-1 you know

no its common practice to ask for a claim when intent is stated

also to be fair, i asked Shelly to claim at L-2. Because I'm well aware that people get accidentally on purpose hammered from out of nowhere, all the f'ing time on this site.

[Battle Mage]

i've got a slight bias towards eliminating a louder player today, as this feels like the sort of game where a charismatic experienced scum might steamroller town.

I do need to go back and read properly again though

[Battle Mage]

Although now I have a slight paranoia that Ico-scum could have coached her into doing that.

imagine being good enough at mafia to coach people

that would be great ngl

the last time i coached a scumpartner, they didn't survive the day!

[Battle Mage]

if Shelly does flip scum, I would immediately look at Bunno tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

fwiw, i'm not massively opposed to a shelly elim, but also dont want to rush anything when we have loads of time.

why are you asking for a claim if you said this

im just massively confused aorn about this gamestate but I can quite confidently say {Ico, Alonzo, Bunno, username} are townie

you sound a lot less confused than me if you have 4 confident townies.

I'm fine with the claim at a glance.

[Battle Mage]

BM doesn't really try to solve other slots. For other slots, he kind just gets his toes a lil wet and that's it. Todays leading wagons are shelly and Taylor correct? I read a bunch of peoples attacks on them and currently want a shelly lim more however I'll have to reread and see what I think after.

my toes?

you say "today's leading wagons". I mean, from my perspective, we have like 4 days left to decide an elim - we aren't in a situation where we need to settle on either of those wagons, or consolidate or whatever. I've got 4 days to decide who i want to elim, and i will do so.

i'm gonna catch up on some of the real basic stuff posted recently, and then im gonna do some actual analysis for myself.

[Battle Mage]

BM asked me to claim, not ico.

BM asked me to claim, not ico.

look at post 1403. there was no need for you to claim

i wanted a claim, i asked for a claim, shelly claimed, now she might not be elimmed. What's the problem?

username, alonzo, BM and noraa should probably start giving opinions on the 2 wagons and vote on either one to try and consolidate something

as noted, ill give opinions on what i want, and i aint compelled to consolidate shit and suggest everyone stays loose.

Alonzo and Taly in terms of content are considerably similar as well, but I've very different opinions on them

It's not only about what you do, it's how you do it and when.

Last post and I apologize if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

Taly?

u TR me then u throw shade on me. wtf.

im fine if someone wants to policy noraa but we should all lim Taylor

U at L-2 rn?

U wna hmr? ===========[]

Although now I have a slight paranoia that Ico-scum could have coached her into doing that.

imagine being good enough at mafia to coach people

that would be great ngl

the last time i coached a scumpartner, they didn't survive the day!

fuck bussing right, just 'help' them instead

damn right mate!

[Battle Mage]

I just spent a fun few mins reading Noraa's completed town game.

Spoiler:

Dude, why didn't you save the tracker on N1? lol

the tl:dr is:

Excited, over-zealous, enthusiastic scumhunting, lots of obvtowning, keen to give reads, not tunnel-visioned, overwhelmingly happy and bubbly.

Will re-read here, although my starting assumption is, it feels a heck of a lot different.

[Battle Mage]

I'm finding the fact that Noraa initially only focussed on me, and others when they voted her, for AAGES, troubling.

No sense of townie-zeal to try and catch scum. Just OMGUS and self-defence.

When she does eventually move to other suspects, she justifies as "they benefit most from BM v Noraa" which implies TvT, but she is still claiming a scumread on me at that point.

claims she doesnt produce content as town, when she did.

i dunno. heart still says town but head says burn.

[Battle Mage]

tunneling Noraa.

Shelley/anyone with experience -- is this third person speaking typical?

can confirm, she did NOT do this once as town. not sure i can say more, because rules.

also, she was just, relatively speaking, so grumpy even from the open here.

[Battle Mage]

ISO'd teacher.

Scumlean. Little output, and what's there is largely spam and fluff. Mainly focussed on easy stuff he can commentate on from the fringes without getting involved i.e. is it good to claim, should i get an avi, sometimes pointing out potential logical failings/inconsistencies without really getting excited. Frugal with the vote. Awkward jokes. Is TvS on me v Noraa, but not willing to drive an elim on either. he has suspicions, but reasoning is weak for a seemingly smart dude. picks off the LHF but doesnt do anything with it. Doesn't really seem like legit solving as his fundamental opinions don't change. claims to think I'm scum but sheeps me on Ico. No scumhunting passion. Starts with Taylor as an easy target, never diverts and jumps on as 3rd vote when taylor wagon gets momentum.

teacher scum-flip means:

Datisi and Menalque are both town (because he seemed genuinely worried about them townbinning each other)
Ico town - teacher's nominal legit townread

Vote: teacher

[Battle Mage]

i'll re-read TGP next. but yeah, scum-flip on teacher could be town win by PoE I think.

[Battle Mage]

info wise, i also like TGP-flip.

even Bunno flip would be sweet for that.

[Battle Mage]

bunno, can you summarise your taylor case in 1 post for me, or link to it? i aint trawling through reams.

anyone else think it's not a coincidence that this game has a high proportion of players from england, and is higher quality than your average mafia game?

[Battle Mage]

why is nobody else here when, as Noraa would say, I want to get my willy wet...with some serious analysis!

[Battle Mage]

why are you admittedly less active here than your other games?