Mini Normal 2171 | Boardgames | Game Over

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey, everybody. What’s shakin

[Flavor Leaf]

MiniMegabyte, Battle Mage, Gamma Emerald - One of these are probably scum

With

Dongen, Taylor, Bob, arachnid - one of these.

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If anyone is a protective, whoever you targeted probably is conf town.

If anyone is a town blocker, honestly, you should probably claim now, scum blocker already flipped, if a townie blocked someone, you should claim. Highly likely they are scum.

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In theory, Osuka can be in the first group, but i think that’s likely green and that a second red would be in the 3 I listed.

While reading overnight, I read Golden and Gamma as scum.

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TGP's flip should indicate the wagon was heavily scum-driven - I think that's more likely in the scenario that Ydrasse is town rather than mafia as there's no reason for mafia to want to escalate Ydra/Shelly if it was T/S.

i didn't draw that conclusion about TGP's flip.

I'm guessing there's some weird rules in this game where scum can kill their teammates? or a vig i guess, but less likely...

No-elim then?

Considering Battle Mage went after Gamma and made this post, i think this is a good place to start.

VOTE: Battle Mage

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TGP's flip should indicate the wagon was heavily scum-driven - I think that's more likely in the scenario that Ydrasse is town rather than mafia as there's no reason for mafia to want to escalate Ydra/Shelly if it was T/S.

i didn't draw that conclusion about TGP's flip.

I'm guessing there's some weird rules in this game where scum can kill their teammates? or a vig i guess, but less likely...

No-elim then?

if no-elim i think the only players that would be bold enough to do that on day one would be flav


otherwise we have somesort of town role but not doc. since a scum doc is confirmed it has to be somethign else.

How come there can’t be a scum doc and a town doc?


Also, this means that Battle Mage, in a game where it’s confirmed to have a scum doc, tried denying the existence of a possible Vigilante, and considered scum shooting scum a possibility.

I’ve been a Vig in a game before where someone tried to push this. They were scum.

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Town blocker, i would actually go ahead and full claim here.

I think we can solve today, probably.

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I don’t think toys for Bob votes Gamma there if Bob is scum. He usually holds his vote.

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Battle Mage/Taylor is my jumping in too deep solve right now.

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But I don’t recall playing a game with Shelly where they are town

the push on you is bad, for example this post seems to be explicitly using the reverse-gambler's fallacy to argue that you must be scum. but im also not sure that youre town here.

So Taylor’s been setting up a reason to go Mini for a bit.

And they mentioned Mini and Battle Mage, looks like classic bus a buddy, vote a townie.

However, they also were voting Battle Mage at the end of the day, who was on Shelly. Likely, scum is off the wagon as well, so Taylor voting scum Battle Mage who is on the wagon, is a solid scum distancing move.

Battle Mage / Taylor scum team.

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Dongen, Taylor, Bob, arachnid - one of these.

I town read the Bob slot and the Dongen slot. I’ll need to look into Arachnid more, but I think Taylor’s just scum here.

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ydrasse you dont seem to care that you just hammered town

I think Taylor is actually town this game with that post

scum should ideally shut up / fluff here

night? sweet. gimme some of that juice!

Taylor obvscum here btw - if I flip tonight, elim her immediately.

Agh, i can’t not see them as scum now. Haha

[Flavor Leaf]

wow flavor leaf is posting a lot

i wonder what that means :3

I always post a lot. Unless I fall behind.

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Mini and Gamma both look like town who pushed an incorrect read and tunneled a bit.

Oskua looks like they are town who just laid down a vote and was surprised it took off.

Yd is town who hammered and was likely expected to be taken down. Shelly’s attitude towards Ydresse makes them seem TvT, but in a way where they looked TVS, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

let's put it to the test:

I am town.

What do you think?

claiming town on the first page? the scumminess is strong within this one!

I find it suspicious that you find this suspicious. Also, the post you quoted was page 2.

Scum theatre?

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what if we flip you this page?

That'd be no fun. This is my first scum game in over a year, let me play

Replacing out after a misfade doesn’t seem like something someone does after their first scum game in over a year.

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VOTE: dong

up he goes.

just to flag, my activity may be a bit lower in this game, as i now have a few running concurrently and a busy couple weeks ahead.

let's aim to avoid 100 pages for Day 1 to help a brother out.

^^this, please.

VOTE: dong outright scumclaiming? even scummier than BM townclaiming!

Bob seems to be sheeping scum here. Interesting. This probably helps clear Dong more for me, and Battle Mage is being protected softly by Golden here. It’s early game, but that’s why they likely feel so comfortable doing so.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dongempire (3) :

Battle Mage, TheGoldenParadox

, bob3141 [E-4]
Battle Mage (2) : PookyTheMagicalBear,

Tayl0r Swift

Makes sense to me. :/

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Damn. I didn’t see that. Scratch that point then, but I do feel i am onto something in regards to BM and TS.

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I’m modding an 8p micro as well, if anyone’s interested. Theme from the movie, The Shape of Water, 4 slots left.

I’m trying not to flood the thread too much, so this will be my last post hopefully until some other people post.

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Oh, no, Gamma, I said I initially scum read you and GP on my replace in, that overall meant that I think you’re town. I didn’t say that yet, but you can see with my overall posts I wasn’t pushing you as a scum read. I was just doing the surface level work before digging deep.

I think Battle Mage is the only other scum on that wagon.

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With GP flipping Red, I started to see your interactions with the Shelly slot as town Gamma too.

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I acknowledge your read on me isn’t currently a scumread, but I still feel concerned that you didn’t even really acknowledge the fact I referenced a game you modded (I don’t recall ever making it obvious, but I think you would have made the connection). In addition why does being proven right make you reconsider your read on me? What anti-partner tells did you see between me and TGP?

I probably didn’t pay that much attention to it. I didn’t see anti association, i just read your interactions with Shelly, and it seemed similar to attitude you had against Nancy, except Shelly didn’t have the clout.

And now that i actually have to read it, it comes off townie.

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I’m just looking at the wagon momentum and events that lead to the demise.

If you put an anchor point on Golden, then the weight of the momentum goes a specific way because it cancels out other anchor point possibilities.

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Yo i haven't played in like years what is this pocket shit about

Pocket is when scum tries to get in someone’s favor.

He’s basically making a paranoid comment about me being hypothetical scum who is trying to get him to town read me.

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Yeah, those were my own personal reads, so you guys could all see the direction I was leaning in. I also wasn’t in the game Day 1, so I had a good amount to catch up on to lend myself to the game, ya feel?

We have the GP red flip to know that that’s where a significant scum momentum was being pushed. Pretty high profile spot, so now we can look at interactions around the impact of the now confirmed red flip.

And I see ScumBM and ScumTS out of it. So far, I don’t think I’m wrong, but we’ll see what happens with direct interaction.

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Basically my stab at who I think is scum. I understand I can be wrong, but I’m confident enough where I feel like hard pushing them.

I’m feeling pretty confident, but it also has me in a bit of a tunnel already, if that makes sense.

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Yeah, see, scum conceded. It’s TS and BM.

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BM was antsy scum after seeing partner died.

TS is utterly demotivated scum.

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It’s also worth nothing that scum have a doctor, and if a Vigilante shot Golden P, and they didn’t flip doctor, so that would mean if scum protected last night, they protected someone who isn’t Golden.

Which is interesting to me. They thought the other player was more likely to get shot than Golden.

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TGP's flip should indicate the wagon was heavily scum-driven - I think that's more likely in the scenario that Ydrasse is town rather than mafia as there's no reason for mafia to want to escalate Ydra/Shelly if it was T/S.

i didn't draw that conclusion about TGP's flip.

I'm guessing there's some weird rules in this game where scum can kill their teammates? or a vig i guess, but less likely...

No-elim then?

Considering Battle Mage went after Gamma and made this post, i think this is a good place to start.

VOTE: Battle Mage

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night? sweet. gimme some of that juice!

Taylor obvscum here btw - if I flip tonight, elim her immediately.

This could be a possible attempt to explain why ScumDoctor Battlemage doctored Taylor, in case they were tracked.

They also seem to be possibly driving Night Kills towards Taylor because they know they have a doctor shot.

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I say we fade one of them, and whoever is the Vig shoots the other.

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Woop. Missed that.

Also that is worth noting. Who looked the most scummy before the golden flip? I could see a Taylor or porky protecting a Ydrasse based on Shelly's dying reads

Yeah, I was thinking of that as a possibility as well after I looked back.

For me, it was Golden and Gamma were the people I planned to look into, and the Golden flip made me not really see them as partners based on the momentum of the wagons. I still put Gamma into that POE, but I personally think he’s town, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

MiniMegabyte, Battle Mage, Gamma Emerald - One of these are probably scum

With

Dongen, Taylor, Bob, arachnid - one of these.

Ydress and Osuka can be added to the first squad, I guess, but Osuka spot is probably the least likely to come from scum. More likely that wagon started by town then scum pushed it down the line until it went through.

Which means 2 or 3 scum on wagon. 3 scum on a wagon is an extremely bold scum play, and I really don’t see that happening in this, and I didn’t see any major puppet mastering going around, so I think 1 scum stayed off the wagon purposefully, and that looks like Taylor who had an easily made Battle Mage push going. I’d rather vote Taylor than Battle Mage here probably.

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Yeah, see, scum conceded. It’s TS and BM.

Can I ask how you came to this conclusion

Wagonomics mixed with analysis based on the Day 1 interactions with Shellyc.

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VOTE: Taylor

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Yeah, see, scum conceded. It’s TS and BM.

Can I ask how you came to this conclusion

Wagonomics mixed with analysis based on the Day 1 interactions with Shellyc.

Can you quote some examples of where this has happened

Like what? It’s literally just the entire of the thing. Going back and looking at Golden’s posts and the interactions with Shelly and then who followed and actually did stuff. It’s just the overall, not any one thing in particular.

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Which conclusion?

I just took the list of people who were on the Shelly wagon because there’s like guaranteed one scum in them. There’s a chance there’s 2, but bets on 1.

So i looked at who interacted with Shelly, and why each of them went on the wagon. Gamma and Shelly had an argument that lead to Gamma’s vote on, while Taylor actively stayed off, and then shaded someone who just hammered Shelly, which is likely why Taylor got Maf Doc’d.

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I believe my entry to this game I explain my entire thought process.

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Ydrasse and Shelly were arguing left and right yesterday while Golden hopped on, followed by Mini, BM, and Gamma. I believe that there is scum in those last 3, and Ydrasse vs Shelly is TvT, and Ydrasse getting The hammer was a town hammer.

However, someone made a decent point of Ydrasse-Taylor interaction, but I wanna think over if I think they could be S/S more.

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at the momet i feel shelly can go in the town pile

The stale wagons most likely mean that scum really have not been throwing their votes around. If scum had been pushing to form wagons we would have got wagons as they can form even from all town votes. So by vote count 1.2 i would say shelly is town as she has failed to make any headway on forming a true wagon. Could also indicate that dong is town too as otherwise scum would have likely gravitated towards it. If it was town + scum, it would have probably got picked up a third vote.


No at that point could the shelly wagon be the same. With the wagon situation no way are both osuka and pooky scum. So at least one town in that bunch. Now this wagon has since picked up another vote from 2 more votes. Which most likely makes this scum motivated wagon.

Osuka, pooky, golden, mini

Now. Is it composed of one or two scum. On that point i think it's too early to say.

@bob according to your wagonomics what do you think ydrasses alignment is? I see no comment about ydrasse there

I’m thinking if this is a warlock or something with the hostility towards me hmmmmm

I think im 5dchessing myself here but spitballing my thoughts, the effort from bob with analysis is probably town!AI

nothing can realy be determined alignment based on current gamstate. could go either way. Scum not pushing scum or scum choosing to push another town wagon are equally likely

Interesting. These sound like me.

I’ll count it as a town Mind meld

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I think Bob is scum.

VOTE: Bob

nah I changed my mind. UNVOTE:

also, did you win mini normal 2148?

I think it's Mini.

VOTE: Mini

This is actually interesting because it happens right after Bob was town leaning Shelly, who Golden had been pushing.

This immediately makes Bob’s posts weakened because the general public saw scummy Bob comments right after, but BM changes votes right after. And in the end, they end up right back on Shelly. That looks like damage control and gamestate manipulation.

I hope I’m not super tunneling, I really am just thinking out loud.

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Looking back, page 12 ish, that looks like MiniMega is town pushing Shelly based on the way that the momentum came after. Scum took advantage of the building wagon, the talks a lot Shelly, and the townie pushing the townie who’s getting scum read for talking a lot.

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osuka seems quite genuine here, as does BM, and i have a townlean on pooky for that RQS; null on everyone else atm.

This makes me feel Battle Mage is more likely to be scum based on where Golden positioned them here.

This is part of the post they voted Shelly in, so they used that to try and create a gamestate idea. Osuka being genuine was important for them to say based on them being on the wagon, so they wanted the idea of trust out there which bleeds Osuka town.

Pooky is someone who can shut people down, and it was also good to get him on their side plus they need to hide their shallow comment of BM.

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Shelly is pinging me quite hard atm, and it's not particularly because of the push on ydrasse but more the mild hostility that she seems to be expressing as well as 227 which i saw as a weird distancing from her previous reads to instead just trust what bob says. her entire interactions with pooky and ydrasse feel off, so let's go with a VOTE: shellyc. osuka seems quite genuine here, as does BM, and i have a townlean on pooky for that RQS; null on everyone else atm.

yes its very strange and not like shelly at all - that said, i know shelly is trying to be less agressive and overconfident, so ill give her a pass somewhat because it could be her trying to figure out how to chill out and re-evaluate.

Shelly is pinging me quite hard atm, and it's not particularly because of the push on ydrasse but more the mild hostility that she seems to be expressing as well as 227 which i saw as a

weird distancing from her previous reads to instead just trust what bob says

. her entire interactions with pooky and ydrasse feel off, so let's go with a VOTE: shellyc. osuka seems quite genuine here, as does BM, and i have a townlean on pooky for that RQS; null on everyone else atm.

explain the bold. As i dont see her distancing from her own reads. At most shelly is saying that she trust me when i say that the start of day one is best used to town hunt.

Notice the difference between Taylor and Bob. Both are players who didn’t end up on the Shelly wagon. Bob questions Golden. Taylor picks a side.

Golden then responds to only Bob’s post.

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By the way, im scum! After a year in rehab, MS moderators finally found it fit to give me scum. I hope i'll have a wondrous experience deceiving all of you, even the ones i like!

I'm always good to quick-elim a Day 1 scumclaim.

VOTE: dongempire

just to flag, my activity may be a bit lower in this game, as i now have a few running concurrently and a busy couple weeks ahead.

let's aim to avoid 100 pages for Day 1 to help a brother out.

^^this, please.

VOTE: dong outright scumclaiming? even scummier than BM townclaiming!

VOTE: dong

up he goes.

was that a hammer? wtf is with people today.

in case it wasnt,

VOTE: BM

im so tempted to join the troll army at this point

I believe this put Dongen to F-1. Golden put the F-2 vote, which is decently anti partnery as that is a momentum swinging vote. Bob voting right after Golden there also gives some town points.

Battle Mage tried making it happen earlier on this page, and Pooky actively slows things down, so Pooky likely town.

Taylor actively picks a different path yet again.

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osuka seems quite genuine here, as does BM, and i have a townlean on pooky for that RQS; null on everyone else atm.

This makes me feel Battle Mage is more likely to be scum based on where Golden positioned them here.

This is part of the post they voted Shelly in, so they used that to try and create a gamestate idea. Osuka being genuine was important for them to say based on them being on the wagon, so they wanted the idea of trust out there which bleeds Osuka town.

Pooky is someone who can shut people down, and it was also good to get him on their side plus they need to hide their shallow comment of BM.

Why BM over spooks for the partner there?

I just feel Pooky is just hanging around, not really knowing anything more than he should, if that makes sense. I could be wrong, but I feel like Golden was the first scum on the wagon, especially considering Golden added to your wagon earlier.

Pooky actively didnt join in to your slot’s wagon.

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VOTE: BM
way too excited about this PL. perhaps scum seeking to pocket everyone?

haha yes exactly! well except the bit about me being scum. I'd love to pocket everyone!

Also on a serious note - Pooky, you town here?

I'm town homie. you sure you don't want to claim tracker

Ah, this might be why Battle Mage made sure to bring up targets, so he could explain if he was going to be seen later. He might have thought this was a track crumb.

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Yeah, I was at that truck stop that Battle Mage is at like 50 hours ago.

Onto T Swizzle.

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I clearly stated I understand I could be wrong, so even if you are town, it isn’t misguided, and on top of that, I’m not even voting you here.

Overreaction.

A wrong read is not a bad read.

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VOTE: BM
way too excited about this PL. perhaps scum seeking to pocket everyone?

haha yes exactly! well except the bit about me being scum. I'd love to pocket everyone!

Also on a serious note - Pooky, you town here?

I'm town homie. you sure you don't want to claim tracker

Ah, this might be why Battle Mage made sure to bring up targets, so he could explain if he was going to be seen later. He might have thought this was a track crumb.

dude if you're gonna make a case on me, can you actually do it? rather than half-assed shading across dozens of posts? I have no idea what you're talking about above, and assume it follows from successive incorrect assumptions you've made earlier, but unless you put together something vaguely coherent and concise, I'm not inclined to work hard to correct you.

It would be helpful if you can do 1 post where you set out the things which make you think I'm scum or town, and then I can respond. Otherwise, just seems like you're railroading the town with no substance, and

no real interest in solving

. Which, curiously, appears to be an argument you've levied yourself against Taylor.

No, the way I do it is perfect at eliciting reactions, just as it has here.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: BM
way too excited about this PL. perhaps scum seeking to pocket everyone?

haha yes exactly! well except the bit about me being scum. I'd love to pocket everyone!

Also on a serious note - Pooky, you town here?

I'm town homie. you sure you don't want to claim tracker

Ah, this might be why Battle Mage made sure to bring up targets, so he could explain if he was going to be seen later. He might have thought this was a track crumb.

dude if you're gonna make a case on me, can you actually do it? rather than half-assed shading across dozens of posts? I have no idea what you're talking about above, and assume it follows from successive incorrect assumptions you've made earlier, but unless you put together something vaguely coherent and concise, I'm not inclined to work hard to correct you.

It would be helpful if you can do 1 post where you set out the things which make you think I'm scum or town, and then I can respond. Otherwise, just seems like you're railroading the town with no substance, and

no real interest in solving

. Which, curiously, appears to be an argument you've levied yourself against Taylor.

No, the way I do it is perfect at eliciting reactions, just as it has here.

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And you can’t case a gamestate read the same way you would a scum case. Most of the time, there isn’t an actual scum case to be made on scum until later, so I’ll case when it’s time to end game.

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Or if I want a fade specifically on one person, otherwise eliciting reactions is the right way to approach a game and cement myself into the walls and figure out where scum is.

I’ve also explained why, and just because you are town doesn’t mean it’s not a solid case/reasoning.

I explained my entire thought process throughout multiple posts, so lack of case isn’t the issue. You’re just one of those people who get overly sensitive when they get scum read.

Gotta get past that.

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Also which of it is bad, Battle Mage?

The analysis, the wagonomics?

Because if you’re referring to just the read on you, then yeah, that’s just some personal stuff you’re gonna have to get over because I’m looking at the game from a much bigger scale than you are if that is the case, and you need to get over getting upset from being scum read by a person who just replaced in.

If you’re town, just scum hunt, prove you’re town.

I evolve and change my reads constantly because I never assume I’m correct, I just go down rabbit holes until i find a rabbit.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m past you, dude. Onto T swizzle

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

MiniMegabyte, Battle Mage, Gamma Emerald - One of these are probably scum

With

Dongen, Taylor, Bob, arachnid - one of these.

TGP's flip should indicate the wagon was heavily scum-driven - I think that's more likely in the scenario that Ydrasse is town rather than mafia as there's no reason for mafia to want to escalate Ydra/Shelly if it was T/S.

i didn't draw that conclusion about TGP's flip.

I'm guessing there's some weird rules in this game where scum can kill their teammates? or a vig i guess, but less likely...

No-elim then?

Considering Battle Mage went after Gamma and made this post, i think this is a good place to start.

VOTE: Battle Mage

TGP's flip should indicate the wagon was heavily scum-driven - I think that's more likely in the scenario that Ydrasse is town rather than mafia as there's no reason for mafia to want to escalate Ydra/Shelly if it was T/S.

i didn't draw that conclusion about TGP's flip.

I'm guessing there's some weird rules in this game where scum can kill their teammates? or a vig i guess, but less likely...

No-elim then?

if no-elim i think the only players that would be bold enough to do that on day one would be flav


otherwise we have somesort of town role but not doc. since a scum doc is confirmed it has to be somethign else.

How come there can’t be a scum doc and a town doc?


Also, this means that Battle Mage, in a game where it’s confirmed to have a scum doc, tried denying the existence of a possible Vigilante, and considered scum shooting scum a possibility.

I’ve been a Vig in a game before where someone tried to push this. They were scum.

But I don’t recall playing a game with Shelly where they are town

the push on you is bad, for example this post seems to be explicitly using the reverse-gambler's fallacy to argue that you must be scum. but im also not sure that youre town here.

So Taylor’s been setting up a reason to go Mini for a bit.

And they mentioned Mini and Battle Mage, looks like classic bus a buddy, vote a townie.

However, they also were voting Battle Mage at the end of the day, who was on Shelly. Likely, scum is off the wagon as well, so Taylor voting scum Battle Mage who is on the wagon, is a solid scum distancing move.

Battle Mage / Taylor scum team.

ydrasse you dont seem to care that you just hammered town

I think Taylor is actually town this game with that post

scum should ideally shut up / fluff here

night? sweet. gimme some of that juice!

Taylor obvscum here btw - if I flip tonight, elim her immediately.

Agh, i can’t not see them as scum now. Haha

Mini and Gamma both look like town who pushed an incorrect read and tunneled a bit.

Oskua looks like they are town who just laid down a vote and was surprised it took off.

Yd is town who hammered and was likely expected to be taken down. Shelly’s attitude towards Ydresse makes them seem TvT, but in a way where they looked TVS, if that makes sense.

Dongempire (3) :

Battle Mage, TheGoldenParadox

, bob3141 [E-4]
Battle Mage (2) : PookyTheMagicalBear,

Tayl0r Swift

Makes sense to me. :/

Damn. I didn’t see that. Scratch that point then, but I do feel i am onto something in regards to BM and TS.

Oh, no, Gamma, I said I initially scum read you and GP on my replace in, that overall meant that I think you’re town. I didn’t say that yet, but you can see with my overall posts I wasn’t pushing you as a scum read. I was just doing the surface level work before digging deep.

I think Battle Mage is the only other scum on that wagon.

With GP flipping Red, I started to see your interactions with the Shelly slot as town Gamma too.

I acknowledge your read on me isn’t currently a scumread, but I still feel concerned that you didn’t even really acknowledge the fact I referenced a game you modded (I don’t recall ever making it obvious, but I think you would have made the connection). In addition why does being proven right make you reconsider your read on me? What anti-partner tells did you see between me and TGP?

I probably didn’t pay that much attention to it. I didn’t see anti association, i just read your interactions with Shelly, and it seemed similar to attitude you had against Nancy, except Shelly didn’t have the clout.

And now that i actually have to read it, it comes off townie.

I’m just looking at the wagon momentum and events that lead to the demise.

If you put an anchor point on Golden, then the weight of the momentum goes a specific way because it cancels out other anchor point possibilities.

Yeah, those were my own personal reads, so you guys could all see the direction I was leaning in. I also wasn’t in the game Day 1, so I had a good amount to catch up on to lend myself to the game, ya feel?

We have the GP red flip to know that that’s where a significant scum momentum was being pushed. Pretty high profile spot, so now we can look at interactions around the impact of the now confirmed red flip.

And I see ScumBM and ScumTS out of it. So far, I don’t think I’m wrong, but we’ll see what happens with direct interaction.

Basically my stab at who I think is scum. I understand I can be wrong, but I’m confident enough where I feel like hard pushing them.

I’m feeling pretty confident, but it also has me in a bit of a tunnel already, if that makes sense.

BM was antsy scum after seeing partner died.

TS is utterly demotivated scum.

night? sweet. gimme some of that juice!

Taylor obvscum here btw - if I flip tonight, elim her immediately.

This could be a possible attempt to explain why ScumDoctor Battlemage doctored Taylor, in case they were tracked.

They also seem to be possibly driving Night Kills towards Taylor because they know they have a doctor shot.

MiniMegabyte, Battle Mage, Gamma Emerald - One of these are probably scum

With

Dongen, Taylor, Bob, arachnid - one of these.

Ydress and Osuka can be added to the first squad, I guess, but Osuka spot is probably the least likely to come from scum. More likely that wagon started by town then scum pushed it down the line until it went through.

Which means 2 or 3 scum on wagon. 3 scum on a wagon is an extremely bold scum play, and I really don’t see that happening in this, and I didn’t see any major puppet mastering going around, so I think 1 scum stayed off the wagon purposefully, and that looks like Taylor who had an easily made Battle Mage push going. I’d rather vote Taylor than Battle Mage here probably.

Yeah, see, scum conceded. It’s TS and BM.

Can I ask how you came to this conclusion

Wagonomics mixed with analysis based on the Day 1 interactions with Shellyc.

All of these is a thought process and case that explains why I feel BM is scum. Just because BM doesn’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s not there. If it happens to be an incorrect read, it does not make it a bad read or case. Legitimate thought process.

Me explaining why I town read other slots on the wagon that I feel has scum on it, is a case, whether you like the case or not.

A wrong read isn’t a poor case. Get over yourself.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you are scum, you’re doing what you have to, i get it, but you not acknowledging posts and explanations made is inherently going to be the reason you are killed if you are town.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I am correct with BM/Taylor, this is exactly how they both have to respond.

One busses, one attacks me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Get over yourself.

shit like this, i will ignore. friendly game please.

I say everything in a friendly manner. Picture that with a giant smile.

Literally everything I will say will be all in game.

Nice hang up on the one little thing, though. Duly noted.

[Flavor Leaf]

The shade though. Which people on the coattails should flavor be looking at? You got me, Gamma, and Bob i think? I feel pretty good about that group

i think more you and bob, Gamma looked more like self-preservation? and i don't share your confidence about either of you.

I have a lot of history with both Bob and Gamma, so I personally feel comfortable reading them the way I have here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamma looked more like self-preservation

This is true, but I believe it comes from townGamma still, and I believe you know that it’s townGamma, and you just pushed it as scummy because you have a scum agenda.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I am correct with BM/Taylor, this is exactly how they both have to respond.

One busses, one attacks me.

this is the kind of thing i've explained is particularly weak. You presume 2 people are scum, and cite what they have done, with no suggestion of whether/how it is alignment indicative as if that proves your point. to be polite, i don't consider that scumhunting.

Frankly, that was a Taylor case not a BM a case, and it’s a supplementary statement, not a full thing. It’s not supposed to be the full meal, it’s a garnish to your plate.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re just looking at everything from an extreme surface level, and I think it’s incredibly fair to challenge potential scum you here moreso than others.

Especially with your overreaction.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

[Flavor Leaf]

You also say Taylor gives minimal info.

I disagree. We have multiple people who have jumped onto the slot, and multiple wagons to look at.

There’s a lot of info to be gained from a Taylor wagon.

And you best get used to accepting it, because really it’s just gonna turn to you.

You guys are playing a weird cooperative survivalistic game whilst still trying to stay distancing.

You’re also choosing to ignore basic wagonomics and push it like you have no idea why you’re being pushed.

Cuz you’re the only one who sees it that way

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

sounds like scumtalk to me

are you vigging me because i'm explaining weaknesses in your argument?

I’m not arguing one bit here. I’m stating possible outcomes.

It’s just really not gonna work in your favor, man. There’s people in this game that have seen my unorthodox style and seen my use it to solve games, if you’re scum, you picked the wrong path to go down.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I am correct with BM/Taylor, this is exactly how they both have to respond.

One busses, one attacks me.

this is the kind of thing i've explained is particularly weak. You presume 2 people are scum, and cite what they have done, with no suggestion of whether/how it is alignment indicative as if that proves your point. to be polite, i don't consider that scumhunting.

Frankly, that was a Taylor case not a BM a case, and it’s a supplementary statement, not a full thing. It’s not supposed to be the full meal, it’s a garnish to your plate.

nice backtrack says "BM/Taylor" though. unless your case on Taylor relies on me being scum? in which case, wha?

I’m the biggest flip flopper you’ll ever see. On the dance floor, backtracking isn’t seen as going backwards in progress. Just the next step to the dance.

Nah, you guys are individual + possible association.

Wagonomics and gamestate, nothing really you’ve down exactly. It’s your positioning in the game from Day 1, and your target onto Gamma, who I think is town based on me thinking either Golden or Gamma is scum based on the weight of the momentum of the Shelly wagon.

MiniMega, Battle Mage, Gamma has one scum innit. If i town read Gamma, and see genuine townie thoughts on Mini, that leaves you. I could be wrong, but you’ll have to convince me by finding where scum actually is coming from on that wagon.

Yddrass still is a possibility, I guess, but I feel Shelly ydrasse is town town.

I’ve explained all this, you just pick and choose is all

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re just looking at everything from an extreme surface level

again, i think this is true of yourself rather than me, and i've evidenced that when I've responded to your posts about me.

Oh, absolutely not. I use surface level reads in addition to complex underlying and behind the scenes work.

You just are scum or are town who physically can’t comprehend it right now

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re acting like I’m pushing you like it’s locked rather than just where I’d spend good betting money on.

[Flavor Leaf]

Frankly, if you are town, you will now start to obstruct my view of scum hunting, and i am very much okay with sacrificial townies when need be, so it really doesn’t matter to me right now if you’re scum or town. This will be a discussion to analyze for later since I’m currently fine with Taylor wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

You also say Taylor gives minimal info.

I disagree. We have multiple people who have jumped onto the slot, and multiple wagons to look at.

There’s a lot of info to be gained from a Taylor wagon.

And you best get used to accepting it, because really it’s just gonna turn to you.

You guys are playing a weird cooperative survivalistic game whilst still trying to stay distancing.

You’re also choosing to ignore basic wagonomics and push it like you have no idea why you’re being pushed.

Cuz you’re the only one who sees it that way

its clear from your posts dude, even though you protest you aren't assuming i'm scum, you are. And it appears to be a key assumption in your Taylor-scum scenario. Which means you don't have much of a case on anybody.

i'm not really getting pushed at all - i'm getting railroaded by you, and the classic Taylor-tunnel. I guess maybe you thought I'd be a soft target who wouldn't point out weaknesses in your logic?

it's a bad gamestate for town with 1 person determining everything that happens - regardless of your alignment. The logical weaknesses on top of that make it worse. You can disagree with me on anything, and I'll respect your right to be wrong.

Nah, Taylor is scum over you. You just have your own individual stuff that makes Taylor scum even more likely.

I just say my thoughts.

People don’t have to follow me.

I don’t mind people “calling me out” because I can always back up my arguments, and I know when to drop certain stuff. I got the gift of gab, baby.

Which logical weakness are you talking about exactly?

I gave my thoughts, and people seemed to agree and sheep me. They even stated me as likely town.

So no matter what, this is beneficial to town because I was a complete null slot for people, and now people are actively town reading the slot.

As a townie, that’s exactly what I need to do. I have explained my thought process, pretty completely.

You just are scum or town who can’t comprehend it, whether you are choosing not to because of sensitive to being scum read is the question.

[Flavor Leaf]

And that’s how I push and cause discussion, similar to now. I say a lot of possible hypothetical situations and essentially bring up every option, and then I filter out the ones that get shown to not make sense over time.

This has caused a good amount of discussion already. Beneficial

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

sounds like scumtalk to me

are you vigging me because i'm explaining weaknesses in your argument?

I’m not arguing one bit here. I’m stating possible outcomes.

It’s just really not gonna work in your favor, man. There’s people in this game that have seen my unorthodox style and seen my use it to solve games, if you’re scum, you picked the wrong path to go down.

....yeah except i'm not scum. I'm town looking at your "unorthodox style" and thinking that it's logically flawed, not conducive to solving anything, and regardless of your alignment likely to hurt town. and this is coming from Battle Mage - I'm hardly the world's greatest scumhunter myself.
Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Let me turn the question back round. If you are town, could you consider taking a step back and re-evaluating your own reads, taking account of your evident bias at this point? As it's clear to me that you've chosen the wrong path to go down.

Yep, and if you are town, continue doing what you are doing. I’m sure it will help.

There’s a reason I moved to T swizzle instead of you, after all. Because I saw the potential of you being town.

I already have re-evaluated my reads.

My reads are always extremely fluid, so i don’t understand the take a step back comment.

I was voting you earlier, and now I switched votes. That is the definition of reevaluating.

Me, having a wrong read on you, is not choosing the wrong path to go down. That is playing the game and trying to town read everyone as best as I can.

[Flavor Leaf]

Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Lol.

Not a single scum player on this planet is this true for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Frankly, if you are town, you will now start to obstruct my view of scum hunting, and i am very much okay with sacrificial townies when need be, so it really doesn’t matter to me right now if you’re scum or town. This will be a discussion to analyze for later since I’m currently fine with Taylor wagon.

on the contrary, if you're town, consider this a helpful intervention to stop you mis-elimming me. or mis-elimming other people on the grounds they might be my partner

perhaps you should consider me being town as a prompt to look at your reads once more.

You need to read more carefully. Just because I push someone as scum doesn’t even mean i think they are scum. Look at Gamma. I think you have scum equity, so I pushed a possible scenario that I thought could be likely.

If you are town, then you shouldn’t have to worry so much.

[Flavor Leaf]

Misreading a townie is not a bad thing. That’s literally the name of the game and Mafia’s job to make town do.

It’s playing against the mafia team that matters in the end and coming to the correct conclusions by the end.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

sounds like scumtalk to me

are you vigging me because i'm explaining weaknesses in your argument?

I’m not arguing one bit here. I’m stating possible outcomes.

It’s just really not gonna work in your favor, man. There’s people in this game that have seen my unorthodox style and seen my use it to solve games, if you’re scum, you picked the wrong path to go down.

....yeah except i'm not scum. I'm town looking at your "unorthodox style" and thinking that it's logically flawed, not conducive to solving anything, and regardless of your alignment likely to hurt town. and this is coming from Battle Mage - I'm hardly the world's greatest scumhunter myself.
Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Let me turn the question back round. If you are town, could you consider taking a step back and re-evaluating your own reads, taking account of your evident bias at this point? As it's clear to me that you've chosen the wrong path to go down.

Yep, and if you are town, continue doing what you are doing. I’m sure it will help.

There’s a reason I moved to T swizzle instead of you, after all. Because I saw the potential of you being town.

I already have re-evaluated my reads.

My reads are always extremely fluid, so i don’t understand the take a step back comment.

I was voting you earlier, and now I switched votes. That is the definition of reevaluating.

Me, having a wrong read on you, is not choosing the wrong path to go down. That is playing the game and trying to town read everyone as best as I can.

as noted previously, you obviously haven't re-evaluated your read on me at all. thinking taylor is an easier elim is not the same thing.

Frankly, I don’t care.

I want Taylor right now. I have already re-evaluated you as a slot once I didn’t feel like you were the best way to go right now. I needed to see more.

You are a lean scum read. That does not make you scum. I don’t Town read you, so while I’ll look into possibilities, changing my read and reevaluating can come together, they don’t have to.

Taylor is scum based on her interactions Day 1 for me. How every time somewhere gained momentum she made sure to actively choose the opposite. I also believe 1 scum off the wagon, and she’s 1 of 4, and I town read others off the wagon.

So you thinking Taylor is nothing more than a policy lynch when that couldn’t be further from the truth

I also mentioned how I specifically think Taylor was the scum who was protected since we know there is a Mafia Doc based on the setup info. This is proven that Golden wasn’t doctor’s last night, and the fact Golden didn’t flip doc. 1 of the remaining scum is a doctor. The other one was likely doctored last night, who I think was Taylor.

So you acting like Taylor is a policy looks like you are scum partners who is trying to discredit the Taylor wagon, and make FL vs BM look like TvT.

I have re-evaluated. Every post I read of yours my read gets more and more complex. I’m not town reading you, and you still fit in the POE nicely, and have a scum motivation to your play that would work in the game narrative that I think is happening.

I will constantly look for ways I am wrong, and like I said, if I’m wrong on 1 of you 2, i feel I’m wrong on you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Lol.

Not a single scum player on this planet is this true for me.

cute

I just understand how to play scum way too well on a mechanical and theoretical level. Here, I wrote a guide on it. Maybe you could use it this game.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84028

[Flavor Leaf]

Notice the nitpicking nature of BM’s discrediting style. Anything relating wagonomics and the weight of the wagon momentum got completely ignored.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, I personally think the past couple pages are really strong and beneficial.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, i said the exact same thing Battle Mage said before about me being wrong with the read too, so that’s showing the hypocrisy they have going on

[Flavor Leaf]

Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

This also shows that a ScumBattleMage would be legitimately upset by me calling them scum correctly and thus acting the way they have.

While they could be town, I by no reason have reason to think they’re not playing to a scum agenda.

If anything, I threw a harness on the slot until I can make sure they’re not rabid.

[Flavor Leaf]

TGP's flip should indicate the wagon was heavily scum-driven - I think that's more likely in the scenario that Ydrasse is town rather than mafia as there's no reason for mafia to want to escalate Ydra/Shelly if it was T/S.

i didn't draw that conclusion about TGP's flip.

I'm guessing there's some weird rules in this game where scum can kill their teammates? or a vig i guess, but less likely...

No-elim then?

Honestly, this is what pings me the most about BM. Mafia are confirmed to have a doctor, i don’t like this type of post. TS did something similar with the TGP should be looked at today post.

Like the lack of info fake trick.

[Flavor Leaf]

It also looks like scum who’s partner just got vigged and scum felt pressured

[Flavor Leaf]

Don’t worry, Pooky loves me

[Flavor Leaf]

I killed you so you wouldn’t have to feel the hurt anymore.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think people just read my posts as yelling. I’m the smoke a lot of weed type, so i kinda just ramble, but for the most part, it’s incredibly well mannered and reserved.

[Flavor Leaf]

But people just naturally listen to me cuz I’ll start singing outta nowhere.

This line would make much more sense in person ^

[Flavor Leaf]

And then I give Battle Mage the nanner nanner style ;P

[Flavor Leaf]

T Swizz seems fake, and my tunnel definitely sees T swizz scum distancing from BM. Oh my, that’s just funny to me. I don’t even expect me to be correct at this point

[Flavor Leaf]

Latest posts. Seems like an overreaction.

I feel like I’ve been clearly extremely calm, but shootin back, and in my ramble solve Izuku Midoriya mode, but then they forget I’m suave like the Light. And Katniss, woo woo woo woo

[Flavor Leaf]

I just had caffeine and I’m effected greatly from it. I’m like that squirrel from hoodwinked.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dina me tay

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t believe i caps locked it once.

Again, if anything, i sang it.

[Flavor Leaf]

And that’s kinda just what happens when the case is actually solid.

You literally can’t defend it. You just have to end up finding another more likely possibility kinda thing because while I can be incorrect, i explained where I thought scum was on a gamestate level, where i thought scum was reading wagonomics, partner association, and POE.

You can defend yourself if you really wanted to.

I bought up reasons on each section. You act like everything I say is set in stone. I even said this was my way too deep solve that I don’t necessarily expect to be right on.

So i don’t believe you when you also are acting like I’m rage screaming all over the place.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL has made exactly 0 effort to actually engage me. just purely throwing shade and demanding that people vote me. i cant even defend myself because the case is "I THINK TAYLOR IS SCUM I THINK TAYLOR IS SCUM VOTE TAYLOR I THINK TAYLOR IS SCUM"

Also, can you quote where you think I’m “demanding people to vote you”?

Also, can you quote where you think I’m “purely” throwing shade, and not a hypothetical situation based off my analysis of my Wagonomics/Gamestate/Interactions read?

[Flavor Leaf]

saying wagonomics does not mean youve actually explained anything. youre scumreading me for the exact things that should prove that im town. so i cant defend myself by leaning on the things that prove im town, because those are what your case rest on. your logic is so bad that i dont even know how to defend myself, but i definitely dont believe that these posts come from town.

I believe 1 scum is alive that was on Shelly, and I believe there is 1 scum off the wagon. This is based on me having my PhD in Scumanomics, and analyzing the pressure and momentum swings of the Shelly wagon, including where you actively made decisions to go against the grain.

If there is 1 scum left on the Shelly, post game, this is proven that my logic is 100% accurate, actually.

[Flavor Leaf]

Stop acting like I’m purely scum reading you for being off the wagon. You’re the top candidate, if you don’t like it, step up.

You, Bob, arachnid, and Johnny.

I town read Bob slot and Johnny slot, both for reasons I’ve explained already.

How is the logic behind it bad?

[Flavor Leaf]

FL has made exactly 0 effort to actually engage me. just purely throwing shade and demanding that people vote me. i cant even defend myself because the case is "I THINK TAYLOR IS SCUM I THINK TAYLOR IS SCUM VOTE TAYLOR I THINK TAYLOR IS SCUM"

Also, can you quote where you think I’m “demanding people to vote you”?

Also, can you quote where you think I’m “purely” throwing shade, and not a hypothetical situation based off my analysis of my Wagonomics/Gamestate/Interactions read?

this hypothetical is pure shade. its ass-backwards and designed to be backwards so i cant defend myself. my attacking me for the things that prove im town, i cant defend myself and you get to be super hand-wavy.

Is it wrong of me to look at your play here and think it’s just survivalist flailing from scum?

Who are your town reads and why?

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

This was me playing with BM.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you’re town, who’s scum on your wagon, if any.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

This was me playing with BM.

see??!@!?! when i bring up posts that show what im talking about you say "i was just joking" or "its just a hypothetical"

All my stuff is Hypothetical. I don’t know your role. I’m just analyzing and creating an estimated guess essentially, and if i don’t think it’s correct, based on wagon momentum/otherwise.

I’m still serious even if I’m hypothetical.

I literally said easy money after that fade Taylor (who I am voting) Vig BM (who was interacting with me).

Me pushing the 2 of you have now gotten both of you to hard commit to a plan, and oddly, that’s extremely similar to each other. I still think one of you are probably scum, but that’s a slight anti partner thing.

However, as scum, that’s what you would need to do in this situation, but none the less, it is an anti partner situation that I don’t necessarily think was planned? Idk. I still think one of them at least are scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you’re town, who’s scum on your wagon, if any.

you and BM are scum.

We, this just looks like you’re trying to get BM killed today to have a chance because it lets you go after me tomorrow and it protects you potentially.

I really think somehow I just slammed a nail into the scum team this game. Replacement syndrome.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you’re town, who’s scum on your wagon, if any.

you and BM are scum.

We, this just looks like you’re trying to get BM killed today to have a chance because it lets you go after me tomorrow and it protects you potentially.

I really think somehow I just slammed a nail into the scum team this game. Replacement syndrome.

I am aware that I half want this to be true, so I’m aware of the bias I might have.

But I feel decently confident about all my other reads bar Gamma Emerald.

Arachnid is an outlier here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, but Taylor, you have to see that if scum is off the wagon, you look the spot because of your actively going against the grain votes at high swing moments.

Like if you are town, that’s fine, but you have to see why you can come across as scummy here? That doesn’t make you scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also feel like Taylor was the one who got protected from the scum doc.

Why wouldn’t golden get protected?

[Flavor Leaf]

Why WOULD taylor?

Look at their posts at the end of the Day yesterday. With Shelly flipping town, and the way Ydrasse and Taylor were talking, I’m sure scum would think that out of Taylor and Golden, Taylor would be much more likely to be shot. Golden is a high profile player, so in any other neutral world, i think Golden would be doc’d.

There is the option the doctor is limited in some way, but if a Vigilante shot there, I’m sure the doctor could have made a decision to protect.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Gamma - yeah, I could be wrong on one of them, i don’t know which. I don’t think I’m wrong on both of them.

You’re following my logic, yeah?

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, i get it Taylor, it just happens to look exactly like what scum who is actively trying to not associate with their partners Golden and BM do.

It’s just an incredibly unfortunate situation if you are town here. Like I can see it, but mixed in with really not wanting to be correct and then back down.

Honestly, if you’re scum, I’d be mad here too.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Taylor - it looks like you actively avoided Shelly because your partners were on it. Like that’s just what it looks likes, I’m sorry. You might be town in this scenario, I can see it. But like, oh my gosh, this just sucks so much if you’re town both alignments really.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Taylor - it looks like you actively avoided Shelly because your partners were on it. Like that’s just what it looks likes, I’m sorry. You might be town in this scenario, I can see it. But like, oh my gosh, this just sucks so much if you’re town both alignments really.

tbh this checks out as a motive for Tay to bus too, just because it would look odd optically

I think I mentioned this earlier too.

Yeah, I think we’re at an alright spot.

I’m okay with the wagon, and I do think TS should be before BM because it looks like there was energy going around to get BM first, but Gamma went to Tay swizzles too.

Gamma, if you’re pocketing me I definitely deserve it, but damn it!

[Flavor Leaf]

im still a couple pages behind but want to VOTE: BM, partly cuz its a good vote and partly because it should be interesting to see FL's reaction

Do you think BM is a bad guy :3

no its just a bus vote.

You made too many of these jokes too early, and because a scum flipped, it kind of just really looks this way. I’m getting to your Shelly stuff

[Flavor Leaf]

Shelly is pinging me quite hard atm, and it's not particularly because of the push on ydrasse but more the mild hostility that she seems to be expressing as well as 227 which i saw as a weird distancing from her previous reads to instead just trust what bob says. her entire interactions with pooky and ydrasse feel off, so let's go with a VOTE: shellyc. osuka seems quite genuine here, as does BM, and i have a townlean on pooky for that RQS; null on everyone else atm.

yes its very strange and not like shelly at all - that said, i know shelly is trying to be less agressive and overconfident, so ill give her a pass somewhat because it could be her trying to figure out how to chill out and re-evaluate.

Bob commented to this quote of Golden’s as well, and then Golden responded to Bob and not you, which is an anti association for Bob, and an association for you.

This went against what he was pushing, so him not engaging it kept it under the radar, but it let you take a side.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, that’s your only post regarding Shelly analysis wise. You spent most of your posts going against the main grains, then shading Ydrasse in twilight, which is why I think you were docced.

[Flavor Leaf]

also didnt i scumread TGP yesterday? distancing to that extent on day 1 is not in my scumrange, im afraid.

I wasn’t talking distancing in that way, specifically distancing because when he went Shelly, you chose to make your town defense on Shelly.

The only analysis you had on the Shelly slot in the game came after that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, that’s your only post regarding Shelly analysis wise. You spent most of your posts going against the main grains, then shading Ydrasse in twilight, which is why I think you were docced.

yeah that sounds like town!me

Well, i don’t know who you are. And if I do, i don’t know that I do

[Flavor Leaf]

I will say, i think that gives you some townie points after all for that, but I legit think you conceded, but then decided not to when I pushed you and BM initially.

[Flavor Leaf]

Meta is supplementary, and you seem aware of it anyways.

How many players in this game had you played with before?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Taylor - your play in and of itself isn’t scummy. It’s the play in relation to Golden along with my town reads. If you wanna tear down some of my town reads, maybe I can listen, but I’m pretty happy with a lot of them. Arachnid could be scum with BM, who knows.

Like it’s nothing in particular you’ve done. You played a solid scum game if you are scum, Golden flip just kinda wrecked you is all.

[Flavor Leaf]

I will say, i think that gives you some townie points after all for that, but I legit think you conceded, but then decided not to when I pushed you and BM initially.

well this proves that you dont know me

It more proves that you don’t understand it’s nothing to do with your play, because meta wouldn’t resolve it regardless.

That is a lot of players you’ve played with before too, so you would have had to try to play in your town meta as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well, I have those scum reads on you based on having town reads on other players in addition to the situational gamestate as well.

[Flavor Leaf]

It takes a full wagon to fade, why are you focused on me when 3 other players are already voting you?

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamma, Bob, Johnny, Pooky, Ydrasse, Osuka

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamma would have to be closely pocketing me alongside the fact that I thought either Golden or Gamma was scum weight on the wagon, and Golden flipped. One more on that wagon, likely after Golden joined, which left Mini, Battle Mage, Gamma, and while I do think there’s a chance Gamma is a behind the scenes scum here, he would be playing it very risky to pair this close up to me here, so I think that’s town as well.

I also think the Dongen wagon yesterday was a town fade, and Johnny has been in here pretty innocently townie, if you ask me.

[Flavor Leaf]

It takes a full wagon to fade, why are you focused on me when 3 other players are already voting you?

because i think youre scum. and youre the one who drove this wagon.

So you think Battle Mage and I had all those as Scum theatre?

[Flavor Leaf]

just to flag, my activity may be a bit lower in this game, as i now have a few running concurrently and a busy couple weeks ahead.

let's aim to avoid 100 pages for Day 1 to help a brother out.

^^this, please.

VOTE: dong outright scumclaiming? even scummier than BM townclaiming!

VOTE: dong

up he goes.

was that a hammer? wtf is with people today.

in case it wasnt,

VOTE: BM

You also went against the grain here, which is something I noticed you did with Shelly. Both included Golden prior to it happening going the other way.

Easy way to bus-distance.

[Flavor Leaf]

anyways, real content.

i have a slight tr on shelly for 112; reading it, it seems like shelly's process to reach a bm tr was natural.

however, i want to ask: shelly, what's your opinion on 76? it looks like you might've missed it and it renders your point about the claim being towny null.

This is potential for Ydrasse-BM.

[Flavor Leaf]

Taylor fade probably

[Flavor Leaf]

personly im suprised nothing has happened after i probbed your wagon. no more votes nor any counter wagon.

Scum aren’t bussing/town off the wagon hasn’t really done much. Creature just got here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, BM gets vigged for sure in that scenario.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ve already contemplated it.

I’m not gonna recommend me get vigged.

If you’re town, I especially shouldn’t get vigged, because that’s 2 towns down.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just think it’s necessary to get you or Battle Mage, and even if town, that leads towards a town victory.

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk why you act like I’m completely thinking it’s impossible for you to flip town. I made that conclusion from the very beginning.

That does not mean you’ll flip town. And if it does, then it’s a good wagon to assess as is, it means scum is in my town reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

Disagree that it’s bad. Your slot is the biggest informational slot in the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE:

If scum hasnt taken the bait already i doubt they will with my vote left on taylor

this isn't good of you, Bob.

If Taylor is scum, there's likely only one other scum in the game, so this is how the momentum would look regardless.

[Flavor Leaf]

all of gtp early interactions were heavily bm an taylor.

dong wagon -taylor, bm, gtp

unlikely the entire scum team would sit on one wagon. so if taylor is scum then that means a town bm. and vica versa

so bm/taylor not partners

this is again, weak.

I mentioned this earlier, and specifically mentioned Taylor leaving the wagon afterwards, which was my purposeful going against the grain case.

[Flavor Leaf]

all of gtp early interactions were heavily bm an taylor.

That's probably a sign we should look elsewhere

we have. Battle Mage is also up for it.

And those are my 2 options today, Creature's done enough with the slot that I'd save it even though it was in the POE.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm just gonna straight up claim.

I'm the vigilante who shot Golden Paradox.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm just gonna straight up claim.

I'm the vigilante who shot Golden Paradox.

this was based on where I thought the weight of the shelly wagon was being scum pulled. I scum read Golden and Gamma as the scum weight points, but likely not together, and I chose to shoot Golden.

This gives reason that I have a good sense of where this gamestate is at and thus another reason I'm confident in 1 scum in BM and TS at least.

[Flavor Leaf]

Now let's figure out the reason the night kill was blocked.

Honestly, full claim if you have a possible reason to have stopped a kill. BP, doc, roleblock. get it out there. let's get some analysis done today.

[Flavor Leaf]

another reason I had absolutely zero qualms arguing against Taylor with her vig kills me if she flips green comments.

[Flavor Leaf]

night? sweet. gimme some of that juice!

Taylor obvscum here btw - if I flip tonight, elim her immediately.

remember this?

[Flavor Leaf]

TGP's flip should indicate the wagon was heavily scum-driven - I think that's more likely in the scenario that Ydrasse is town rather than mafia as there's no reason for mafia to want to escalate Ydra/Shelly if it was T/S.

i didn't draw that conclusion about TGP's flip.

I'm guessing there's some weird rules in this game where scum can kill their teammates? or a vig i guess, but less likely...

No-elim then?

This is also an extremely scummy post. This game has a confirmed scum doc.

why would a vigilante be less likely?

This is role fishing at its finest. I wasn't going to claim it today, but yeah. I've been sitting on this for a while.

[Flavor Leaf]

BM is trying to deny vig existence, and Taylor has been trying to direct Vig action.

[Flavor Leaf]

If i have a modifier, i purposefully didn’t claim it

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, scum have confirmed a Doctor on their team, so yeah they have another PR.

[Flavor Leaf]

at this point im basically today's lunch. unfortunately, unless BM is the scum doctor, theres going to be no way to confirm FL as town here 100%. pls vig/lunch BM.

I’m already confirmed unless you think scum shot themselves

[Flavor Leaf]

Also isn't roleblocker pretty good against vigs already?

Yeah, it blocks my actions.

On top of scum having a doctor.

Like scum knew there was a Vigilante this game based on the doctor, and scum decided to doc someone who wasn’t Golden.

So it had to have been someone more likely to be vigged than Golden.

[Flavor Leaf]

at this point im basically today's lunch. unfortunately, unless BM is the scum doctor, theres going to be no way to confirm FL as town here 100%. pls vig/lunch BM.

I’m already confirmed unless you think scum shot themselves

isnt shooting your scum-mates exactly the sort of thing flavor leaf would do?

No.

That’s completely pointless.

I don’t do things like that, I do things that will help me win a game.

Why would purposefully shooting Golden be better than keeping Golden alive and have us work together?

[Flavor Leaf]

Disagree that it’s bad. Your slot is the biggest informational slot in the game.

an information lynch is a shit lynch, in a vacuum. i have to admit i have no clue how much time is left in the day and right this second i cant really be bothered to go check, but honestly if that's a big argument in your push you should probably just fuck off with it

Disagree. Anything that helps get to a further solve is better.

And it’s not an information fade unless it’s a town fade.

That’s worst case scenario.

Osuka scum points gone up, by the way.

[Flavor Leaf]

Taylor, if you’re town, with the knowledge of me being town, where’s scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

Also isn't roleblocker pretty good against vigs already?

Yeah, it blocks my actions.

On top of scum having a doctor.

Like scum knew there was a Vigilante this game based on the doctor, and scum decided to doc someone who wasn’t Golden.

So it had to have been someone more likely to be vigged than Golden.

unless the doc is gated.

Yes, but if it’s not matched up with my doctor in hypotheticals, what’s the point of having it?

Also, Golden flipped Even, and I shot Night 1.

I’m pretty positive they should have ways to deal with.

UNVOTE: Taylor

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, town disagree with me all the time. Whether they’re scum is up for debate.

Scum usually split against me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Osuka scumming up, Taylor towning up, Creature towning up, Bob scumming up, i think chances of all 3 scum on Shelly go up, but still probably has scum within Taylor, Bob, Creature, and maybe it’s Bob’.

His flip after Taylor started coming in is scummy looking.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also isn't roleblocker pretty good against vigs already?

Yeah, it blocks my actions.

On top of scum having a doctor.

Like scum knew there was a Vigilante this game based on the doctor, and scum decided to doc someone who wasn’t Golden.

So it had to have been someone more likely to be vigged than Golden.

unless the doc is gated.

Yes, but if it’s not matched up with my doctor in hypotheticals, what’s the point of having it?

Also, Golden flipped Even, and I shot Night 1.

I’m pretty positive they should have ways to deal with.

UNVOTE: Taylor

but if the doc is x-shot rather than night gated, then maybe they thought theyd be safe on night 1. i agree with you that they had something to deal with you. i just dont necessarily think we know for sure that they doc'd someone else. and i dunno who theyd doc other than TGP. maybe BM? it seems like theyd want to doc the decently scumread PR...

This is correct, but that’s just another possibility, if that makes sense.

Even if we split the possibilities down the middle, it’s still 50/50 at minimum, and I think 50% is a strong enough push to go through with for a reason. That’s scum equity, if that makes sense. It doesn’t mean that’s what’s happening.

So in the end, we mix up all these possibility hypothetical, into what has the most likely of a chance, then we can add in other things like personal reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

though in fairness with no cc and a scum doctor, vig is sort of an obvious claim to make. im just not sure whether someojne would fakeclaim vig or, in the case of a vig fakeclaim, someone would cc

pedit: not really, no. i think bd is very unlikely compared to vig in light of a scum doctor

For me to not be a Vigilante, you have to assume I was willing to be counterclaimed by whoever the real Vig was, in a situation where I would have just lost a scum member.

Like I’m crazy as scum, but I do things with pro benefit to scum winning, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

though in fairness with no cc and a scum doctor, vig is sort of an obvious claim to make. im just not sure whether someojne would fakeclaim vig or, in the case of a vig fakeclaim, someone would cc

pedit: not really, no. i think bd is very unlikely compared to vig in light of a scum doctor

i feel like vig wouldnt cc but instead just shoot FL. if the doc is on FL and the shot fails then maybe cc time.

Ah, right, I didn’t think about this.

Regardless, I think it’s pretty clear even before I claimed, that I shot Golden, at least in hindsight.

I even came in to the day saying Golden or Gamma, I shot Golden because Gamma I can interact with to figure things out easier, and I owe it to trust it.

That’s also why I pushed the game with the confidence I had. I was on the shooting scum Night 1 high, i have been known to hold my Night 1 Vig shots before.

So I wanted to be correct. I really wanted to be correct with TS and BM, right after shooting Golden.

If that helps see where I was coming from.

[Flavor Leaf]

the two largest wagons other than shelly EOD yesterday were BM and ydrasse. either of them could have been doc'd, and i see nothing that makes me sort ydrasse as town.

Yeah, Ydrasse could be scum.

I thought Pooky was clearing them earlier.

I think we should claim whoever thinks they stopped the kill.

[Flavor Leaf]

normal game, no jesters.

Also, let's just all claim:

No Block

or

Possible Block

I'm claiming No Block.

[Flavor Leaf]

is it beneficial for a town protective to speak up? theyd 100% get shot here but would confirm someone else and vig would still get another shot, assuming shot gate

Yes, it is 100% beneficial. They already got 1 save, let's get some info in this game, so I don't have to misfade Taylor because I avatar psychology is really working against me this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Pooky - At this point, I’m even down for a mass claim.

If we get a single doc/block claim, that’s essentially 2 extra Conf townies.

[Flavor Leaf]

Miller’s were big in meta from like 2016-2018. Gamma even modded a game with like 5 millers in it.

Johnny, go ahead and claim the informed part. Might as well.

Like mass claiming HURTS scum at this point because it forces scum to claim while the game isn’t in their corner.

[Flavor Leaf]

And if I have a shot, I don’t wanna shoot a PR unless I think it’s scum claiming a PR.

Guys, just mass claim. We get a conf townie in doc/blocker, and if scum add a doc/block in there, that’s a direct 1v1 almost

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, most people think Mass Claiming is bad, but there becomes a time when it just benefits town far greater than it benefits scum, and this is one of those times because we just got a scum dead, and a No Kill in one night, which means there’s potential to have 3-4 conf townies.

Honestly, everyone should just claim when they show up.

The longer they take, the scummier.

Let’s fade whoever is last to claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

How are you basically cleared?

Like, yeah, it’s fine, i just think that was funny

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, I just want a chance at the perfect game.

I think mass claim brings us closer to that, with like no risk.

I’m still the most likely to die, no matter what’s claimed.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm kinda unhappy with bob because when I saw him post his posts seemed somewhat forced.

Yeah, Bob got unnaturally scummy after the Taylor vs Flavor.

I think he could be scum who was about to set up for the momentum to go towards me.

Because let’s be honest, the momentum was swinging towards me.

Taylor, BM, Bob, Osuka, and Creature were all ready to vote me. Don’t act like you werent

[Flavor Leaf]

See I haven't been active on the site since late 15/early 16.

You sure about the info? It involves roles and might help folks fake claim

You get to claim last, how about that?

You already claimed your part, the informed part can happen after everyone’s already claimed.

FL: Vigilante
Johnny: Informed Miller

[Flavor Leaf]

Right. We can popcorn, I guess.

Johnny informed is just gonna be added on later, so they’re out of the popcorn.

Johnny, pick somebody in the game to start the claiming.

[Flavor Leaf]

Explain why it is stupid in this situation?

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, Miller can exist without cop.

That’s another reason we should mass claim here, though

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t care if all 5 of the people I listed end up being town, a votes a vote, and I didn’t think it was a worthy way to spend the time.

Now claim, ScumBob!

[Flavor Leaf]

ScumBob GoonPants

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, I’ve been editing video for the past 13 hours

[Flavor Leaf]

Osuka could be scum. They had poor posts around the time Bob did

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Bob

I’m just trying to mass claim here.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL why would we want the conftowns now when they can be killed off, when instead we could have them later?

Why does it matter if conf town are killed off?

You claim early as town so scum can’t pick a better fake claim. It pigeonholes scum.

I really don’t know why everyone’s always so afraid to mass claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

If conf town are killed off, they’re not getting faded.

I don’t want to have to wait every single time for people to claim when they get a wagon on them

[Flavor Leaf]

It just elongates the game to not mass claim here.

And with mass claim, we potentially catch out yet another scum by way of counter claims.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, only scum or town who doesn’t understand wouldn’t want a mass claim here

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I’m literally gonna shoot someone who could just be conf town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’d rather just know everything today, and then rely on actual dayplay and analysis in conjunction with the setup no longer being setup spec

[Flavor Leaf]

Why is that relevant?

I have a proven track record of being strong with vigilante shots, and maximizing it to its potential.

I’ve only miss shot a few times.

I once even spent an entire night phase psycho analyzing the entire gamestate so that I would not only hit scum, but hit scum Doctor, which was one of my strongest town reads going into the night.

So I feel like it’s definitely town beneficial to mass claim here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bob’s trying to stop mass claim, Taylor is down to claim, but she doesn’t understand why it’s beneficial, which I see as semi townie.

Bob seems like he’s trying to save his own skin

[Flavor Leaf]

Bob’s trying to stop mass claim, Taylor is down to claim, but she doesn’t understand why it’s beneficial, which I see as semi townie.

Bob seems like he’s trying to save his own skin

you just want a mass claim to stop your ego getting hurt

you have bragged about killing obvous scum golden. And dont want to kill a pr

That’s what I’m supposed to do. Maximize my efforts into targeting the right players.

[Flavor Leaf]

also if he is a vig, that's not good news for town

I legit have 100% accuracy this game hitting scum. How is it not good for town?

I also have a proven record of being strong when I’m Vig.

[Flavor Leaf]

no idea why bob not claiming makes bob scum. hardly anyone has claimed so far? and scum less likely to be visibly refraining from claiming when challenged?

Bob got popcorned to.

[Flavor Leaf]

as weird as fl has been lately, there may be merit to a massclaim. the problem is, there are plenty of fake claims to make (such as cop, since theres a claimed miller and town cop is not guaranteed).

why do other people think massclaim is a good idea?

And just when you get scummy, you get townie right back again.

And I AM weird. I’m an actor, writer, director, not by choice. I know how to play the game of Mafia well, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, Bob got a long way still before he can break A50/FL gold standard in different claiming

[Flavor Leaf]

I will be shooting in the people who have not claimed roles.

[Flavor Leaf]

Claimed their role* to an acceptable consequential conclusion.

[Flavor Leaf]

So

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller

Who else claimed

[Flavor Leaf]

honestly if this were any other game the massclaim would piss me off but rn this is my mood

This is the exact time to use Mass Claim, people just don’t know how to use mass claim o their advantage unless it slaps them in the face.

[Flavor Leaf]

as weird as fl has been lately, there may be merit to a massclaim. the problem is, there are plenty of fake claims to make (such as cop, since theres a claimed miller and town cop is not guaranteed).

why do other people think massclaim is a good idea?

And just when you get scummy, you get townie right back again.

And I AM weird. I’m an actor, writer, director, not by choice. I know how to play the game of Mafia well, though.

Tell me then. Why would scum be against a mass claim. Their night one kill failed. They are going to want to know why. Mass calim does exactly that.


Allows them to kill the one responsible. Next night kills you after you kill either kill town or scum.

Then the investigative roles.

Then if n1 was a protection. the protected player or any clears

It doesn’t matter nearly as much because we already got a block. That’s already +1 before counting the Vig on Golden.

I’m just gonna assume there’s a town doctor in this game and consider myself so scary to the scum team on a replace in, they shot me, but I was protected, but they knew they were right to shoot me because i killed scum.

So I’m a conf town on top of a conf town now. I’m a Confie town cake.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: VT
BM: VT

Gamma/Pooky, since you here, wanna claim?

[Flavor Leaf]

Bob can easily be a Mafia Complex Fruit Vendor looking for people to claim if they got a fruit or not to find PR’s, which is why scum Him would be against mass claim, especially if they already know where PR’s are.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bob can easily be a Mafia Complex Fruit Vendor looking for people to claim if they got a fruit or not to find PR’s, which is why scum Him would be against mass claim, especially if they already know where PR’s are.

My current conclusion is Bob is the town protective and doesn’t wanna claim because of it, but I’m gonna keep my vote there because it’s funnier.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: VT
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma:
Bob:
Mini:
Osuka:
Creature:
Ydrasse: