Mini Normal 2171 | Dead and Spectators Thread

[shellyc]

shelly is fantastic. fun, funny and very earnest - also super keen to play with her again soon.

ydrasse is scum man, no idea how I got nuked with 0 casing
wanna see either BM? or gamma

[shellyc]

hey murder and glitch, no idea there were spectators following along

I’m gonna PoE this here - it’s in Ydrasse golden gamma BM AG

[shellyc]

if town doesnt get ydrasse tomorrow I will be very disappointed

this also confirms that I am terrible at obvtowning as town

bob is town, Taylor is town, mini is town, Dongempire is town

pedit: still surprised how that happened so quickly

[shellyc]

im gunna get this

[shellyc]

the

[shellyc]

P A G E T O P

[shellyc]

tl;dr there were a few res votes on me, people thought tunnelling = bad, people misrepped me and ydrasse lolhammered

[shellyc]

*rvs

AG is newbie, but I think they are townlean, this is an experienced plist and newbscum would probably sound a bit artificial especially if coached

[shellyc]

at least 2-3 scum are on my wagon with no big CW at least 1 of {Ydrasse BM} are scum from VCA angle

I stand by much of my analysis, bob’s probably gunna be the nk

[shellyc]

INVESTIGATE: Gamma Emerald

[shellyc]

oooh FL repping in this is going to be interesting

[shellyc]

what are your solves murder and glitch aorn? curious

[shellyc]

yeah it was scummy but would you end the day prematurely with 7 days left on the clock

the thing that made up my mind with ydrasse was complete lack of interest in pushing their preferred wagon and instead moving onto me prematurely
when did ydrasse want mini, they just fence-sat on them for the entire time
if ydrasse truly SR’d me they would have to push mini/me which is a real stretch

[shellyc]

nahhhh backtracking is scummy anyways

can you quote where ydrasse has a *progression* on me that concludes to “shellyc is scum", they’ve been null saying that they “cannot sort me"

[shellyc]

"and from you? i genuinely don't know if this is town!you doing your thing or scum!you going on me for shitty reasons. i'm not going to try and pretend i can discern this right now, doubly so given that i've been the object of your push basically this entire game. it's distracted me from a lot of stuff going on. on pure gut, i think that you and mini could both be scum together because you tunnel but you don't tunnel like this and it'd look good for mini down the line.”

first sentence = fence-sit
second sentence note the careful usage of the word “on gut” and how ydrasse can just say “shelly played bad don’t lim me, not my fault"

[shellyc]

even ydrasse TR’d me slightly as their first read ever in the game and I struggle to understand the trajectory behind townlean -> null -> scum bucket warranting instahammer

it just isn’t a genuine thought process at all imo

[shellyc]

oh I know worsty’s solve

it’s mizzy/murder/glitch

congrats on discussion mod btw! will need to get used to that new colour of your name

[shellyc]

Before the Shelley wagon became a real threat to her I was SRing Ydrasse.

finally someone else concurs with me yay

wait

no way this is a pocket

VOTE: Glitch

[shellyc]

did I just unknowingly get the pagetop

osuka/bob/donge/mini/Taylor? should be all town tbh, I think town just goes ydrasse and everything will be pretty clear

[shellyc]

*eyebrows rising*

Spoiler:

that was interestin. ydrasse is proooobably scum anyways despite gamma’s TR on them
BM might be scum

[shellyc]

you’re the quackup mod...

Spoiler:

my Solve aorn will be Ydrasse/BM/Golden

[shellyc]

also im rethinking donge. not being on my wagon != auto townpass. (although my wagon contains most likely 2 scum)
(assuming this is 10v3)

pure setup spec of mafia doctor = >rand chance of a GS or vigi

[shellyc]

cereal killers aren’t going in mini normals right?

[shellyc]

yes but im expecting most of this to be Wildly Inaccurate

Spoiler:

confirmed: {shelly, gamma}
almost conftown: {bob}
townread: {osuka}
lean town: {swift mini}
null/unsure: {pooky? donge AG IV}
lean scum: {BM}
scumread: {Ydrasse TGP}

[shellyc]

lmao

ok time to murder the worst, worst is scum all town vote worst now

[shellyc]

meh im most likely going to be less tunnel-y over time as I've already seen The Dark Side of it
I’d never lurk though

[shellyc]

golden I was right on you!

so theres a vigi and a protective

[shellyc]

ok I think there is a grain of truth in what I said about ydrasse/golden being part of the solve

this is gunna be exciting

[shellyc]

johnny can be town for now, entrance gives me good vibes

can we just get ydrasse now town

[shellyc]

Spoiler:

hmmm so it's a full scum doctor? imo claiming town doctor is not a great idea as town doc + scum doc isnt super plausible

[shellyc]

im gunna go with ydrasse/BM/golden as my solve

golden's misrep on me was pretty damning, thats the only reason why i actually scumread you

[shellyc]

lit, okay. i will say that shelly played a quite good d1 game, and it was only through pure luck and momentum that we forced that mislim through.

you're quite lucky that nobody cares much about miselim town's reads

[shellyc]

look both ydrasse and golden are currently discussing in their scum PT what to make of my claim and whether to continue pushing me

I think this is true and my tunnel on ydrasse is correct

theres a deepwolf that is in {BM-swift-lurkers)

[shellyc]

fwiw faking confidence in a scumslip as scum (when it's twilight and town flip is coming) is what I just did as scum and it was quite successful, so the confidence from ydrasse in a scumflip from me does not make them town

[shellyc]

bob is town. the TR on me is very geniune and scum could have easily wagoned there. no use pocketing a dead corpse so bob is almost confirmed town, johnny/donge is prob!town, mini is town, pooky/osuka prooooobably town but not very sure

[shellyc]

If Pooky is scum with ydrasse that would be epic and if town don’t nuke ydrasse I will be angry words

[shellyc]

*have

Think pooky ydrasse is not a/a atm its too bold to play like that as scum

[shellyc]

FL usually plays quite like RC as town? so it's prob not AI

solve is golden/ydrasse/deepwolf in {BM-taylor-FL-lurkers}

[shellyc]

weak read but im inclined to think that yds was not same alignment as golden

no. stop. ydrasse is an obvious golden partner

[shellyc]

okaaaay im all caught up

FL putting ydrasse at the end of catchup + randomly townbinning for the reason that it's TvT???? because it looks TvS??????

FL may be scum

[shellyc]

lmao you're a 2015 and im a 2020 but it's not especially pingy and it can come from town

[shellyc]

I think a BM flip solves ydrasse and FL so im fine with town doing that, i actually feel slightly better about FL because they actually seem to be solving

[shellyc]

Spoiler:

ok with TGP implying ydrasse scum I kinda think FL is quite scummy. it seems like binning it as a TvT interaction instead of solving and suggesting breifly the possibility of s/s taylor/ydrasse which is preflip associative

but there's a counter to the theory: another thing i wanna point out is a no-kill is risky. if not suboptimal it's a very bold move and I think newer players may tend to do this more often because they have no expectations to face. not sure FL would go with that though

[shellyc]

OK Ydrasses sudden dip in activity is very scum aligned. I can buy FL/Ydrasse or Taylor/Ydrasse here.

[shellyc]

flip taylor today - if taylor is green FL is probably scum with ydrasse. if taylor is red they are scum with BM or ydrasse.

or FL BM taylor are all town and there's a deepwolf alongside ydrasse

[shellyc]

I've been mulling over this.

I feel like FL (with their experience) pushing BM and taylor with taylor apparently bussing BM the whole game? I think that doesnt really make sense. I feel like FL is trying to set up BM and taylor as basically chain lynches with the comment of "eh even if one is town the other is scum". thingy
FL randomly townbinned ydrasse because the interaction looked like TvS but it's TvT because of ??? lol
this is in FLs scumrange 100%. I think they're trying to push a world instead of solving and the confidence there is pretty scum!AI. the thing about "im not tunnelling" seems like a way to get out if taylor flips green

I think it's just FL/ydrasse here

[shellyc]

okayyyyyy

wrong on FL, stand by my solve

[shellyc]

okay i'm caught up now

it feels like no one is really going to bat for battle mage as town in this situation other than like, osuka/creature and i don't know what to make about it.

like, most of the momentum today is going against ts/bm and i don't think that ts is scum in this situation; her frustration doesn't feel fake/cornered for being scum and there's still effort being put in which like... at this point, if she were scum i feel it'd be a lot more overt if she was caught out? i guess she really doesn't have a choice but to fight back in this case regardless. i've never played with scum!taylor before but her attitude now still feels like her town self.

with battle mage... i don't know if he goes into defense mode like that and doesn't come out? it's the same case where like, if he doesn't fight back as scum his team will get rolled (unless flavor was his partner but like, no.). but he's not doing that, he's just snarky and then nothing. that isn't something you do unless like, both you and your partner are fucked completely which in this case would be ts which...?? doesn't make sense to me. in theory she could have doubled down on bussing from the get-go but like i've said before it feels like a weak ass bus if that's what she was doing. at this point if it is scum!ts + scum!bm, though, i guess maybe she feels like she's in a better spot so that could explain still trying? the consensus seems to be no more than 1 in (ts/bm) so.

otherwise, if it is scum!bm, him getting bussed at this point makes sense because it stands out a lot less than like, creature coming into the game saying "yeah bm is town" or osuka calling into question the validity of a push. btwn the two though creature Feels better to me than osuka.

that being said i think the best voting pool right now is (bob, gamma, johnny). gamma is the weakest of these three because it's a gut feeling/weak pings from a few posts but i don't really... get why he's being townread. bob has had a few posts that have made me go ?? on him, mostly the ones regarding taylor's wagon.

and uh, johnny. johnny hasn't done anything that i see as town. his behavior given the gamestate right now freaks me out because like... i don't think we're in a victory lap rn and just sitting back and posting obvious things but like... i'd also like to actually see johnny do something too instead of coast? my worry is that he's coasting off the idea of a bm elim/ts vig or vice-versa right now.

VOTE: johnny

regarding the others, i want to believe with all my heart that pooky is town but him hard-defending me sets off an alarm in my head. there's nothing else that he's really done that makes me think he's scum save for not... do a lot gamewise lately but it doesn't have the same attitude as johnny about it? like, it's not overtly him saying "yep we've got this in the bag time to goof off". and mini hasn't posted a whole lot since d2 (i hope you the best in the hospital btw mini!!) but at this point i feel like... if she's scum it's probably with bm or taylor if one of them is but that's not where my head's at rn.

ok ydrasse is confscum, this post just shades everyone in one form on another which is a scum move, scum need to shade everyone to set up people as miselims

[shellyc]

gg ydrasse, really good claim imo, this is going to clutch for scum

other scum is in VT claimers probably BM

[shellyc]

or it's actually a reeeally good deepwolf

kinda think I see pooky-ydrasse atm as scumteam

[shellyc]

ok maybe only glitch will get this but this thread is going to turn into the "Why is Ydrasse Alive" thread very soon

context: in large normal 229 scum!titus claimed babysitter and didnt die, dead thread was basically asking why titus was still alive. ydrasse played in that game as well

[shellyc]

Spoiler:

in hindsight your no killing was a pretty good idea imo, I can see scum winning this still

[shellyc]

no ydrasse is scum

Spoiler:

scum no killed according to TGP. the claim is therefore fake.

[shellyc]

Bob a good choice?

imo, pooky/BM > bob here. pretty sure solve is just ydrasse + {pooky/BM} at this point

bob defending me instead of wagoning was pretty townie

[shellyc]

if shes scum im throwing my computer in a trash compactor

Spoiler:

you'll have to...
there's method in my madness tunnels

[shellyc]

perhaps i've always been capricious, and the avatar just synergises better with my true nature~? :3

that avatar is gold

fine with any check from osuka

[shellyc]

there's method to my madness and i don't randomly tunnel people

hey mini, tbh if town gets pooky today ydrasse has to concede so yeah

[shellyc]

current ratio: 2v7
D3 elim gamma 2v6
N3 kill bob, FL shoots taylor 2v4
D4 town no elims
N4 kill FL, FL shoots creature gg

i kinda think scum wins this

[shellyc]

I think the solve is just in {pooky/BM} and town is currently townbinning them...

sigh I wish I did much more to make it clear why we needed to nuke ydrasse right after getting me

[shellyc]

scum won the moment I get elimmed and FL replaced in

[shellyc]

shelly, you should get more credit. seems like you often tend to get elimmed early, but your reads are quite good.

"People who have really out there reads, stick out too much, don't agree with the generally established townblock, and want to do their own thing which people don't largely disagree with get lynched incredibly consistently. They also incredibly consistently flip town." - RadiantCowbells

this game is a reminder of 1) PR worship = bad and 2) gambits can work

[shellyc]

the gambit was the third member of our team's idea, and while i underestimated them at the beginning i was proved very, very wrong. it might not even have been considered a gambit, to be totally honest, because it would have gotten ydrasse removed from the poe pool in any case and the only way it could backfire was if a vig shot ydrasse, which would have sucked but i didn't really think was incredibly likely. that being said, i also didn't think fl would shoot me, so that's fun as well!

leaning towards pooky for last scum, rereading ydrasse-pooky-me pooky *DEFLECTED* on me and tried to discredit my push instead of solving ydrasse

[shellyc]

assuming bobs claim is real and they die tonight...
ydrasse is confscum
FL is conftown
TS has no gun, BM has no gun
creature's pred was also pretty town and they gave off nervous newb vibes, creature now is solving instead of just coasting along with ydrasses claim
I TR'd donge, and johnnys claim is pretty good

by PoE pooky is scum

[shellyc]

hey shelly, wanna hydra sometime? you can use your incredible scumhunting skills and i can try to make sure we don't get limmed d1

sure, I'm up for it

[shellyc]

if im wrong and bob is scum then well played, but im 99% sure that its just pooky/ydrasse and they win

FL shoots creature, scum kill bob, miselim creature, i think that's the end.

[shellyc]

*FL shoots taylor

[shellyc]

again
this isnt a scum win
its a fucking town loss

PR worship = bad
overconfidence = bad
early massclaim = bad

[shellyc]

*credit's where credit's due for scum though, fakeclaim + no kill executed very well, and ydrasse held onto my pressure quite well imo, and third member (probably pooky) is playing a great game

[shellyc]

this is funny coming from you shelly
high confidence is good in appropriate doses. checking yourself on how likely you actually are to be right is overpowered.

no its not funny
I did re-evaluate my ydrasse push by pushing HARDER and what I got was ydrasse was more likely scum
I would say some parts of ydrasse reactions were flailing

[shellyc]

lesson learned. trust my gut, and im a silly goose.

lesson learned
at least consider the possibility that a shellyc tunnel is correct

[shellyc]

When you reconsider and it just makes your read stronger it doesn’t feel genuine to others

i wanna roll vigi

[shellyc]

you're right but eh

I should study the art of obvtowning
SR -> reconsideration -> double down isnt really fake imo

[shellyc]

i have lost hope in FL and this town

[shellyc]

i would've yeeted shelly even if I was town tho

makes sense considering tunnelling is actually slight scum AI for me

welcome to the dead and nice job! you were rather close to winning this today imo, the no kill play was good
towns gonna get creature though, but 'why is ydrasse alive' will become a key question

[shellyc]

If town gets creature they lose

I’m aware of that

[shellyc]

Scum can still win from this position in general, but I don't know if Ydrasse can. Pretty sure her lack of engagement and not understanding the mech part of this game is 100% genuine - maybe that sincerity can get her through one elim but I don't know

ydrasse is not a bad scum player

its possible and im pretty much rooting for scum now

[shellyc]

creature into BM for the win, and possibly some shade on johnny as a backup?

[shellyc]

every time FL ever tries to pull massive mech plays that don't make sense i'm pulling this card

every time anyone ever tries to pull massive mech plays that don't make sense i'm pulling this card

[shellyc]

sigh

if only i had pushed through with ydrasse this huge mechsolve fail wouldnt have happened

[shellyc]

FL I've been thinking about this game and the massclaim
fwiw with you shooting bm + no kill giving a "clear" I think it wasn't that unreasonable a situation to masjclaim and I'm confbiased

I think town wins this but the gambit was good play from scum
doing some postgame thoughts now because why not
the vig shot + no kill seemed rather advantageous to town in that position and we were overconfident, but once pooky lost duel it was basically over
@pooky you played rather well to stay at the end of the PoE of FL! you were very townie imo except ydrasse-pooky was a reeeally viable team fmpov and I was tunnelled on your partner
@ydrasse good fake claim and d1 resistance to my pressure was adequate, you missing probably detrimental in lategame for scum tho
no personal offence intended in the tunnel btw, im quite emotionally/spiritually invested as town (and although im more active in the thread, im rather less invested in an emotional level as scum) and I probably eventually need to learn to take a step back/be less confbiased as looking back I was quite confbiased by my ydrasse read
@rest of town I think did more than enough and BM/Taylor did become quite obvious town after a bit

[shellyc]

wait I just caught up this is f4 and creature is getting misguillo'd

gg

[shellyc]

it would SUCK if we lost bc ydrasse wasn't active enough to vote

ydrasse is here
everyone requested fast night so they're at least active once per 48 hours

[shellyc]

gg scum

well played gambit

I still stand by the fact that this was more a town win than a scum loss

[shellyc]

EBWOP: I still stand by the fact that this was more a town loss than a scum win

[shellyc]

No Ydrasse played us all

ydrasse hardlurked after the d1, fakeclaim was good but eh, this is town mechloss