Smoke-Filled Antechamber [Endgame]

[petapan]

Hi!

welcome back

VOTE: Tammy

[petapan]

mmm this isn't a good look

VOTE: fferyllt

this isn't a good look

VOTE: Nahdia

[petapan]

much like day 0 i am not outside my scum range

[petapan]

much like day 0 i am not outside my scum range

Did you vote Nahdia for negativity?

i voted them because sadly they are mafia this game

[petapan]

no im not.

unfortunate

[petapan]

mmm this isn't a good look

VOTE: fferyllt

this isn't a good look

VOTE: Nahdia

this isn't a good look

VOTE: Petapan

breaking my heart here

[petapan]

Pooky did a roleplay act in micro 935 as Tracer Bullet. He was scum. I'm not saying that it translates to this game, but sometimes I think people townread people who do what pooky is doing. Hopefully he just stops doing it asap

i mean he also played an entire game as town doing nothing but posting gifs and somehow it worked so i'm gonna let him do his thing

[petapan]

Oh well.

Maybe I'll come back when the game starts then

the game started when i voted nahdia, the mafia

[petapan]

Oh well.

Maybe I'll come back when the game starts then

the game started when i voted nahdia, the mafia

but they said it wasn't them.

your defense of your partner is noted

[petapan]

I have three town reads already. Woo.

i have one and it's the easy one

[petapan]

I don't get the point and I don't see the problem yet. I really doubt scum!Jake is going to come out of the game posting votecounts instead of trying to form connections with other people.

your defense of your partner is noted

am I doing it right peta?

nah because the bear's town

jake might be scum though

[petapan]

Ooh a pagetop.

Anyways, I'm mostly just gonna go to the backline until Nahdia posts more. I can read them fairly well.

too late i already caught them

[petapan]

alisae did you draw scum this game

[petapan]

alisae did you draw scum this game

no

are you sure. if you're scum without me i'll be pissed

[petapan]

alisae did you draw scum this game

no

are you sure. if you're scum without me i'll be pissed

wouldn't you know if we both drew scum together

yeah but i didn't drw scum and it looks like you might have

[petapan]

that post wasn't worthy of a townread

[petapan]

I'm also kinda meh about petapan and that saddens me.

i live to disappoint

[petapan]

VOTE: Bell

Woke up because my subconscious wanted this before I drift back off. Something is wrong here.

oh

VOTE: Bell

[petapan]

The griping about RVS looked a little overdone.

How was it different from my own? That's probably the main reason I'm townreading him right now btw

the fact that they were similar and you two are all buddy buddy makes me think youre scum even more.

do you really think scum would act that way toward each other

[petapan]

maybe not: i guess i should clarify: i think *at least one of them* is scum because of their interactions

where did the "even more" come from, exactly, you didn't seem to indicate suspicion of midway before this

[petapan]

no

[petapan]

DS kinda LHF here

what makes you come to that conclusion exactly

[petapan]

decent enough answer as i feel he's an overly literal-minded player who probably gets scumread for that but the early reads did feel a bit forced

[petapan]

actually let me expand on that thought: do you think he's town from what he's said?

[petapan]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[petapan]

i am voting you for being a member of the mafia faction

[petapan]

I am NOT in any sort of mood to deal with bullshit. Give a functional answer.

your post was scummy

[petapan]

Pedit Alisae is scum bois light em up

yeah

[petapan]

I am NOT in any sort of mood to deal with bullshit. Give a functional answer.

hmmmm no me gusta mucho
seems kinda faked

since i'm unlikely to get more from gamma now: you think so? i hadn't liked his catchup posts at all and the post before raised a flag for me with him asking if there's anything he should respond to, but i tend to take that type of emotive response to an early accusation to be town-indicative

[petapan]

was liking midway but this post just... doesn't make sense in context. not sure what to make of it, but @midway i wanna know more about what was going through your head when you voted alisae here.

d to see peta's "obvious townread" was the one i also felt was obvious (midwaybear)! unless he got bear town after he made that earlier post about having one townread which was obvious.

huh?

[petapan]

This will be extremely unpopular but I think Cabd could be scum

i mean, a lot of people

could

be scum, right now

[petapan]

I thought 507 was pretty good even though Alisae voted them for it.

what'd you like about it

Voting for my pocket scumread.

Nooo why do you scumread him?

The griping about RVS looked a little overdone.

for me the word was performative for sure. especially with how easily he dove into his reads with you right away after complaining about a lack of content

383 made me cock my head a lil but other than that I'm not seeing much else that pings me anymore

UNVOTE:

dunno why the unvote because it's not like his last couple posts were anything special

Also the best ice cream flavor ever was watermelon with chocolate chip seeds but it sold terribly and they pulled it.

jerks.

i will permit myself one (1) off topic comment to flaunt my east coast superiority

Spoiler:

[petapan]

This will be extremely unpopular but I think Cabd could be scum

i mean, a lot of people

could

be scum, right now

well of course anyone could be scum
what I meant in that post was chance Cabd scum > Chance random other person scum

go on...

[petapan]

A lot of his posts give me the vibe he is trying to rely on his in-jokes and nostalgia and humor to get by rather then get down and involved scumhunting.
However I have not played with him recently (or ever before, I can't recall tbh) so I am not totally sure if this is a reliable tell or not.

like in comparison I look at ffery's ISO (another player from around the same era who has similar humor) and see that same jokey atittude (which is totally cool) but also some deeper levels of thought about the game itself

i don't know that i necessarily agree but i like that you're thinking that way

[petapan]

i don't know that i necessarily agree

Why not?

mostly in 'wait and see' territory there but did like the vote on Bell, who feels off this game

[petapan]

But I don't need to make people feel good about me this game tbh.

Cabd? Thoughts?

easy post to make as either alignment tbh

VOTE: Bell

[petapan]

I don't think that question is really helpful. Town me just says why not and so does scum me

Answer my question. I don’t believe you.

why is this interesting to you

[petapan]

Also, arbitrarily deciding to have a high post count isn’t arbitrary. It requires effort, statistically you’re less likely to be scum with a high post count. Midwaybear knows that’s the case.

do you think he's consciously attempting to highpost in order to be townread, and also announcing it to the thread while doing so, what is the point of this line of questioning

This bell wagon really pings me as similar to perpetual mylo's string.

explain?

Oh I also want Something Smart to post more. I'm intrigued about their behavior and I'd like to see more.

Also, shit, I'm really sorry peta. Do you have a preferable pronoun?

i don't make a big deal but he is fine

[petapan]

i actually voted him earlier (354) but got distracted by shiny object gamma emerald

i am liable to move my vote again if i find anther shiny object i like

[petapan]

my vote is less single game meta and more not liking the commentary he's been making or what he's been choosing to comment on

vote on me is spicy though

[petapan]

diamondsentinel might actually be town? then i'd have 3. that'd be nice.

He did not announce His intention in the thread. He is also, not a fan of fluff posting.
Which is in line with how he is playing this game in that he isn’t fluff posting much.
I wanted to see how he would react to an on the nose question about his play that could be awkward for scum him to answer.
I got ignored which pissed me off. As it was neither.

ok

[petapan]

i actually voted him earlier (354) but got distracted by shiny object gamma emerald

i am liable to move my vote again if i find anther shiny object i like

If you were on that meta train of thought, I'm surprised that shiny object gamma emerald was a distraction.

I hated Gamma's first post with the fires of a thousand suns, and if he'd continued in the vein of punishing noise I'd have yelled HITO'S TELL! at the top of my voice and voted him with extreme prejudice.

That didn't happen, so meh.

bell wasn't around at the moment to provide any sort of reaction and gamma was

[petapan]

your posts feel so incredibly monochromatic to me.

it's probably the avatar

[petapan]

assassin is not walking through that door, i'm afraid

[petapan]

didn't assume it was meant to be actual commentary

[petapan]

assassin is not walking through that door, i'm afraid

I don't expect Assassin in this game after Tammy's comment. I did expect someone more lively.

To be fair, I have liked some of your posts between Gamma's entrance and this Bell vote.

game is very uneven with a lot of noise and i'm waiting to form opinions on certain people. a younger me would probably still be tunneling gamma but i think i've gone soft

Anyway, no that was actual commentary. I really like LCD sound system which is the name of the band that guy in your avatar leads.

i'm aware but you're gonna have to spell out whatever you were trying to say

[petapan]

lol ok

gonna leave to let the game breathe now

[petapan]

So you voted me less because you thought I was scummy and more because you wanted a reaction?

How do you prefer to play as town?

no, i thought you were scummy, it was just a more productive use of my vote to put it on you and see what you'd say. moved it back to bell when he was actually around.

still trying to find my stride comng back from a long hiatus but the way i liked to play was not try to think about the game broadly, just pick someone i felt was scummy and tunnel them until they towntold or i got them killed

[petapan]

I haven't really been paying attention to bell this game yet. When midway bear made the post about wanting to be top poster, I checked activity and bell has more posts than I do which surprised me because I don't really remember bell posting that much. I know there's concern on bell from you guys who played the game especially those of you from Fate.

this is neither here nor there but i didn't realize until he died in fgo that he was top poster by a comfortable margin. just the style where he posts a ton of short but somehow isn't suffocating. don't think this say anything about him either way.

anyway i liked Bell's responses to me, they had juice. game needs juice.

UNVOTE:


random thought i had on my bike but pooky dropping the roleplay of his own accord probably a good sign for his alignment

absent other things revisiting my early gutread

VOTE: Nahdia

[petapan]

you're not gonna get an explanation from me yet

[petapan]

you still like your bell vote, midway?

[petapan]

my feeling on jake is he's probably going to get himself yeeted at some point this game and i have no idea which way he'll flip

[petapan]

Can we get some coverage on Jake? I still feel pretty good about my vote on him. Others I'd be interested in voting include peta, cabd, and maybe Syr.

Bell's response really doesn't make me feel any better about them, but I'm not really sure what else we'd get out of it.

i have seen it said offsite that listing names in the "w, x, y, or maybe z" is scummy, though. don't have enough experience to go "yeah this is scum" but i'm raising an eyebrow at the format here (does remind me of a Titus-Saber post though)

(could care less that i'm one of the names here and would probably like him on the merit of

who

he's naming, just the

way

he's doing it pings)

[petapan]

actually nvm he's prob town lol

[petapan]

Is this why there is a Bell wagon? Insider meta that was not really shared with the thread? Hmm ok..

eh not for me, mostly it was see cabd's vote, go back and look at bell's ISO to see if i can see whatever he sees, saw Bell was being super active lurker-ish so i followed the vote

[petapan]

Nahdia might also be scum here. Her posting earlier felt really forced and now she's been absent for most of today. Disengaged Nahdia does not make a town Nahdia.

*their

[petapan]

but yes i am still waiting for Nahdia to give me a reason to think they're town

Is this why there is a Bell wagon? Insider meta that was not really shared with the thread? Hmm ok..

eh not for me, mostly it was see cabd's vote, go back and look at bell's ISO to see if i can see whatever he sees, saw Bell was being super active lurker-ish so i followed the vote

I have not gotten that vibe from Bell. And Cabd's vote remains completely unexplained so not giving me any confidence there.

i did but i'm not going to iso-dive for you on a read i no longer have conviction in

Is this why there is a Bell wagon? Insider meta that was not really shared with the thread? Hmm ok..

eh not for me, mostly it was see cabd's vote, go back and look at bell's ISO to see if i can see whatever he sees, saw Bell was being super active lurker-ish so i followed the vote

I have not gotten that vibe from Bell. And Cabd's vote remains completely unexplained so not giving me any confidence there.

the explanation is in 817, which i predict you will not like

[petapan]

gamma's last dozen posts are whatever are all in the sketchy zone

[petapan]

I don't see anything in particular wrong with them. Can you elaborate?

haven't really cared for the tone. 894 is like, okay he believes my self-description of my playstyle so he thinks i'm town? (even though i haven't really tunneled anyone yet). that followed by 911 with him agreeing with me and 927 with him preemptively suggesting rule of three makes me wary of being buddied. and then the way he goes from not liking the Nahdia push in 931 940 to "You know what, I actually see it now" in 961 is iffy.

(most recent time i disliked someone's tone they were town though so meh)

[petapan]

Hell I feel rustier now than I did playing Fate. I find myself in the unusual situation that Cabd described earlier, having a bunch of townreads but no real scumreads.

Admittedly that sort of happened in Fate but at least I had Lancer.

there's a bunch of players right now that are still question mark boxes. i don't have enough townreads to go "scum is in the inactives"

[petapan]

i mean i'm not even at the state i'd call him a scumread i'm just

guarded

[petapan]

the ghost of past me has been screaming in my ear that something_smart is obvious scum and i've mostly been tuning it out but i have no idea what you're seeing there

[petapan]

Where's taylor

it's no problem i'm sure the 12 other games they're in are just more interesting than this one

[petapan]

ugh

[petapan]

Midway up, Something Smart Up.
Petapan down, Syr down.

You know my current opinion on bell.

I wouldn't expect you to have me at mason level town but I am a little disappointed to be in your null zone

i believe it's called "negging"

[petapan]

jake do you have thoughts on anyone in this game

[petapan]

why is that

[petapan]

why is that

Needs more digging, though.

how are they scummy to you if they need more digging though, what is it that's setting you off, what is the feeling that gives you the idea you need to look into them, give me something here

[petapan]

how are they scummy to you if they need more digging though, what is it that's setting you off, what is the feeling that gives you the idea you need to look into them, give me something here

That is exactly why they need more digging.

but why them, in particular

[petapan]

I'm sure you can figure that out yourself.

i can't, please help me jake

[petapan]

there's a reasonable chance at least one of the 2012 circlejerk is scum and im hoping they just sort themselves out so i dont have to

why would you assume it would

[petapan]

I did a meta dive on him at a depth that would make ffery slap me for calling it a meta dive but Jake gets speedkilled regardless of alignment. The guy just cannot keep from getting dead by later than day 2 and I don't think the reasons he's LHF are AI for him

that was my impression as well from a casual survey, conclusion was village idiot, gets voted out so often that he stopped trying, has been killed despite being obvtown in the past, hasn't dropped any significant towntells this game. i tried to draw something out of him but was unsuccessful

[petapan]

ok

why

[petapan]

ok

why

you know why

i actually don't

[petapan]

you think me asking him to explain his scumreads was insincere?

[petapan]

why don't you assume good faith and spell it out anyway?

it's more fun to troll.

I thought it was pretty clear which line I was talking about:

"i tried to draw something out of him but was unsuccessful" (talking about towntells)

There's no point to add this in there.

It's not something AI about Jake and doesn't sort his alignment, absence of towntell doesn't make him scummier.

It makes town-tells you get out of him if you can in the future more questionable.

If this is an actual thing you are trying to do, it doesn't really make sense to say you are doing it.

Feels like scum trying to say ooh I'm doing this townie thing go me.

wasn't implying he's scummier for it, still don't see a read there either way, i gave up on the idea of doing so, maybe someone else can figure out how to get something meaningful out of him

[petapan]

I'm not saying he's scummier for it.

just seemed pointless for you to say that you failed to draw a town-tell out of him.

if i had gotten a read off him i'd have outed it, i don't see a problem with saying i didn't

[petapan]

feels a little big brain to me. i can see the logic as to why maybe town shouldn't, but i dont agree it means town

wouldn't

do it.

not to be rude i don't need you backing me up in this argument and i dunno why it needs your comment over anything else

[petapan]

if i had gotten a read off him i'd have outed it, i don't see a problem with saying i didn't

ok what's the point of you saying you didn't draw a town-tell off of him then?

to say i still don't have a read on him? lmao

[petapan]

to say i still don't have a read on him? lmao

That's not what the previous sentence says tho

does it? i think you're just misunderstanding the intended meaning of what i wrote

feels a little big brain to me. i can see the logic as to why maybe town shouldn't, but i dont agree it means town

wouldn't

do it.

not to be rude i don't need you backing me up in this argument and i dunno why it needs your comment over anything else

not to be rude but i don't need your permission to respond to posts in this thread

i still have you as gutscum and coming in to defend me in a low level dispute feels like an easy thing to argue vs posting anything that provides real insight

[petapan]

i guess i just dont understand the distinction between what im putting forward and content that "provides real insight". should i just not post unless i have some massive revelation?

i would like you to post something that makes me believe you are town. mostly i don't see why you felt the need to come in on that particular argument other than it being a thing that was going on in the immediate present that you could take an easy position on by disputing what pooky was saying

[petapan]

i guess i just dont understand the distinction between what im putting forward and content that "provides real insight". should i just not post unless i have some massive revelation?

i would like you to post something that makes me believe you are town. mostly i don't see why you felt the need to come in on that particular argument other than it being a thing that was going on in the immediate present that you could take an easy position on by disputing what pooky was saying

okay well im not sure why you're sniping at me because you're not able to read into my content. seems like a you problem. you call what i said an easy position, fine, but why does that mean i shouldn't say what im thinking as i read the thread?

this feels more like a theory of mafia discussion than anything else and is unhelpful.

well it's like, okay, you saw that, why did you feel it was necessary to say anything there? it's a very 'safe' post to make because i don't think his arguments are good but my problem is you're coming in going against faulty logic in an argument that doesn't involve you, and that's a thing where you can be objective and argue easily but is ultimately inconsequential, there's no scumhunting in it but it looks like you're saying something

[petapan]

okay well im not sure why you're sniping at me because you're not able to read into my content. seems like a you problem.

actually there's a question: do you think i

should

be finding you as town based on what you've posted?

[petapan]

that's not just based on that single post which i'd rather not belabor at this point, it's based on everything you've said this game. you said i'm "not able to read into your content" and i'm asking if you believe i should be reading you as town

[petapan]

okay but where in your content should i be getting that read. what am i missing?

[petapan]

look

Spoiler: incoherent personal rant that has no actual bearing on the game

im not happy, okay? i work a mentally taxing job which cannot be done from home. we're heavily understaffed, so ive been putting in 9.5-10 hour days all week. our computer systems have been crashing which has added more stress, and just yesterday one of my co-workers went on a racist tirade because the IT guy we spoke to had an accent. today is my only day off because our crashed computer systems mean i have to go back in on monday which i normally have off in order to catch up on work we couldnt do before. i had a lot of things i wanted to accomplish today, including catching up in this thread, but what do you know, my insomnia acted up again last night and when i did get a few hours of sleep, it was already noon i had a fever of 101 and now it hurts to look at screens for too long. im fucking trying, alright? i enjoy mafia and want to participate, and i really hate being that person who posts nothing but excuses and prodges, so ive been trying to give content on what's in front of me so at least people have something. and now you come in and snipe at me for what contribution i have, so yeah, im kind of upset! im not going to tell you how to scumhunt but i do feel and obligation to give you something to read me on. if you're not satisfied with it, i dont know what to do.

okay but where in your content should i be getting that read. what am i missing?

god, fuck, what are you even asking me to say here? im not going to spoon feed you an analysis of my own content. if im not being towny in your eyes, fine!!!! im not begging you for a townread so why are you acting this way? im getting so mad about this rn!

well i'm sorry you have had to deal with all of that. it's not going to change my feelings about you this game but hopefully if you're town i figure it out. i'm heading out for a bit so i won't be badgering you anymore and you can do whatever it is you're going to do

but since you referenced your ffery vote again, let's revisit that: i jumped on you for that vote because it felt like scum trying a little too hard a little too early, attempting to put suspicion on someone for what was good-natured rvs banter. i vote you for it, call you scum, the response you give me is "no im not." which felt

flat

. i've been suspicious of you since, nothing you've said has changed my mind. i engage you today, you give me the line about havig trouble reading into your content, i ask where you think i should be seeing you as town, and i get this. and like, i'm not unsympathetic to the shit you're dealing with, and if you simply haven't had the time to play the game properly that's fine and not a problem, but you seemed to imply i

should

have been reading you as town off the things you've already posted and that hasn't been apparent to me.

anyway that'll be the last from me on this for now

[petapan]

that implication was not intended.

like, i guess i understand ultimately where you're coming from with your engagement if you felt my comment towards pooky was "easy" or however you want to call it. but in the moment yes, it was very aggrevating to get that response when im trying to put something out there. read me as town, read me as scum, fine, though i'll obviously defend myself in the latter case. but your point was that i shouldnt even have made the post at all, which really set me off! and since then ive explained both why i felt the need to respond to what's in front of me as well as my deeper intention with the comment with regard to how im trying to tease out pooky's alignment, but you haven't responded to anyof that. instead you seem fixated on attacking me for not having the right kind of content. mind you im not taking it personally, but i am really frustrated by how this interaction has progressed! it feels super unfair towards me.

okay. it was mostly because the argument about that individual post seemed not worth belaboring and we could argue about it forever and not really get anywhere. on a gut level i didn't like you butting in even if you felt like it made sense to do. and i didn't really want that to be the focal point of discussion b/c to me it was not the most important thing, it was a springboard for me to start pressuring you. with regard to you trying to sort pooky that way, okay. i don't think he's pushing on me in a way that's disingenuous, i think he's being a silly goose. so yeah i'm going to go after you because i had vibe and you haven't said anything that looks like believable scumhunting yet. you say i'm being unfair, do you think that makes me scummy?

[petapan]

the last couple pages are strange and there wasnt really anything fun to respond to. im pretty sure scum were active and working to distance from each other though, because a lot of shit was thrown but no votes were placed

this post is, as you would sa, "throwing shade that doesnt advance the game"

[petapan]

Scum me in PMyLo was motivated by frustration and hatred at my other scum members.

What's motivating you here?

Now ain’t that the question of the hour

Another question before I answer. What do you do once I answer? Would you not expect me to lie out me ass if I were scum?

lmao

[petapan]

town imo

[petapan]

i would hate to disrupt the potential bromance between you two

[petapan]

You know full well which one. But it was just a throwaway meme and if I full-reads I'll probably have less than 4 myself.

I think I do know. I'd have liked confirmation rather than snark.

My vote is very much where it is still.

well i'm never gonna trust someone who claims to have had a magical revelation again so

[petapan]

am i the only one at this point who thinks DS is probably town?

were you getting the impression that people were scumreading him?

[petapan]

pooky

okay, i have to ask, you had an issue with his roleplaying gimmick, which he long since stopped, why's he still scummy?

[petapan]

ok peta could be town, pooky still scummy, cakez townie now too

oh i totally fucked that quote because of ctrl+f, here's the full thing

[petapan]

am i the only one at this point who thinks DS is probably town?

were you getting the impression that people were scumreading him?

yes...

and what did anyone say that gave you that impression, exactly

[petapan]

I don't really think him stopping it of his own accord is a town thing to do. I also didn't understand his though process on his push on you. Also still seems to be jokey which I don't really like.

well, here was my rationale on that first part: he comes in, he's doing his little gimmick. he sees no one is really playing ball with him, he's just kind of getting ignored. at this point, he has the option to just keep posting that way, or drop it. he chooses to drop it, because he actually wants to get people to respond to him. would suggest he doesn't want to get ignored and therefore more likely town. as scum he probably could have chosen to just keep going with the gimmick, most people weren't scumreading him and it'd basically be a free pass to do whatever because he wasn't actually getting scrutinized. as for his vote on me he seemed to suggest i was performing towniness by saying i was trying to draw something out of jake? i think. it's silly and wrong but i don't think it's necessarily scummy as of right now.

that's just my thoughts, i could be giving too much credit but that's where i'm at right now

[petapan]

"i dont like these posts from DS"
"DS is probably scum here"
"im leaning scum on DS"
"vote DS"

things like that.

...what page are you reading? because if you're still catching up, yes, you're out of date

[petapan]

some stray thoughts:

- Gamma's unvote was towny, earlier tonal issues with him are starting to slip away
- i liked that Syr was thinking the same thing i was (doing a background meta check on jake to figure out wtf his deal is) before i'd even said anything about it
- have i once again wrongly inflicted misery on Scheherazade?
- votes are incredibly diffuse right now, which is both weird and bad. there needs to be consolidation somewhere soon. i wish i had a good suggestion as to where. i don't.

[petapan]

well, no, no one's really talking about voting him, he's hanging around the middle of lists, don't know what gave you that impression at all. feels very disconnected from the thread

[petapan]

oh i guess i misinterepreted it because i'm tired and didn't read the categories close enough and just saw the middle and assumed it was, well, middle. don't agree with several of those placements.

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Tammy

goodnight

[petapan]

what's up

[petapan]

what's up

Not much. Catching up with a catch up post. Which at my current rate will occur sometime in the next 10 hours.

very much need to see it

[petapan]

well that wasn't at all clear to me. there are things i'd maybe discuss but also still waiting to hear from certain people

[petapan]

tammy i wish you had more thoughts on this game and not on old games

[petapan]

- have i once again wrongly inflicted misery on Scheherazade?

i was very proud of this and the intended audience did not give it the recognition i wanted

[petapan]

thank you for validating me

[petapan]

tammy i wish you had more thoughts on this game and not on old games

Me too!

dammit we crossposted and then my browser went out and I lost my post.

It wasn't anything great, but it is apropos to this post so I'll just rewrite it as a reply.

I've got some free time today so I'll actually be able to read this game mostly undistracted and not while also trying to work. Before my actual read, I've got working town reads on midwaybear, ffery, cabd, sryry. I don't even know why on midwaybear though; I just remember liking this posts.

I was looking at the playerlist last night and I realized that I don't actually have active suspicions on anyone*. Some pings here and there which has me wondering if it's setup related or if scum are in the people that I just haven't seen posting much? I don't know; hopefully a reread fixes that.

Although! If you're vote on me was serious, it's wrong, but I think you'll realize that once I have some thoughts on the game after actually reading it. I hope. I hope I have thoughts.

well the process was raelizing i don't actually remember anything about how you play, which made me realize i didn't remember anything you've done this game, which led me to read back on you and realize i don't townread you and i'm not sure why anyone does. i didn't have any serious intentions of attempting to wagon you (i was going giving you and diamondsentinel the "first game off a hiatus" d1 pass regardless of my read), but felt the need to express that read in a visible fashion

[petapan]

thank you for validating me

Repayment by means of engagement on my reads and you stated disagreement with placements on them?

i'll get back to you but kinda want to see what bell says in his catchup

[petapan]

werent you recently saying no one scumreads diamond? now youre saying you scumread diamond but are giving him a pass?

if you were paying attention i called him town

[petapan]

then why aren't you voting scum

[petapan]

i confess that i am town

[petapan]

Gimme the name of a scumbuddy at least

if i had any i'd be bussing them

scum catchup post

@ bell

looool that my immediate thought was "midwaybear as archer"

[petapan]

if i had any i'd be bussing them

exactly so just do me a solid

unfortunately i am town


that can be a reply to you or a general statement

[petapan]

You just skimmed my catch up post that is pretty much nothing like archers.
You're self narrating.
You're reflexively ball busting.
You're not tunneling and I suspect you're using the word tunneling wrong.

i had not actually read it fully as of that moment but the whole presentation legit bugs me lmao, it's difficult to interface with and the you've chosen to comment on things is strange to me, less of an analysis and more a series of statements spat into the void. you're getting a reply but it'll take time.
i don't understand what you mean by this or why it's scummy?
is ball busting supposed to be scummy?
i would largely agree that to this point my pressure on anyone has not been sustained enough to constitute a tunnel, your issue with that is...?

[petapan]

looking at my own iso to read bell's catchup on me and...i dunno, man. like i thought you getting distrustful of me and voting me back was a town thing, like like there was some resentment my vote was even on you to begin with. i'm vulnerable to that sort of thing. and then you do this and it feels like you're sloppily smearing me rather than trying to interface with or think about anything i say.

pre-emptive apology to everyone's eyes for what i'm about to do

#868: Lazy.

what about it is lazy

#870: The fuck you say
#882: The fuck you say

what's your issue with what i said?

#892: You have conviction?

why the snark? this is me stating that i had lost faith in my read of you as scum. and instead of trying to work with anything i said there you're inaccurately sniping at me

#969: Is the sketch of you sitting on a fence

is that a fencesit? that's me stating in pretty plain terms my dislike for a trend i was observing from gamma

#991: *gasp* you let Gamma think you were tunneling and now you used invisible parentheses so they'll never know the truth. Huh. Hmm. 0.02 TP for this. but

like, again, why the fucking snark? i described to gamma how i think i play, he said "that sounds like how you're playing so i think you're town" and i'm doubtful my play so far fits that description super well and so his ready acceptance of such a thing was strange

#994: Same, but it's day one so I don't even know why you're bothering to say this.

why wouldn't i say it? it felt worth acknowledging that there were a number of posters who hadn't said enough to be readable. i also wasn't reading enough people as town to put them as scum by PoE. i guess i'm just repeating what i said there but i don't see what your problem here is. (i think i'm seeing a few more people as town)

#1015: Sure.

what's the point of this comment even being here, if it was in notes you were taking, whatever, but there's nothing for me to work with here

#1052: He's a floater. In your eye. Why are you tuning it out instead of pursuing it?

because while old me would have hated the way he's playing in 2020 i'm trying to adopt a more nuanced view and accept it might be a playstyle thing, and there were other players i wanted to investigate

#1053: I've noticed your notice. I do that as scum, here's 0.01 scum points. Don't spend it all in one place.

i follow up on your comment about taylor not being present ingame by noting activity there, and you try to ding me for it?

the fuck is your problem, man

?

#1055: Empathy.

why even make note of this, what use is it to literally anyone

#1137: Standard follow up.

okay?

#1160: Pinged. Self narration.

i do not know what your issue is

#1167: This is a good approach.
#1170: Right turn.
#1177: Bleh.

don't understand any of this, what am i supposed to do with this?

1180: My problem is that you were literally spinning a narrative and giving the rest of us a scenario, like you were selling it.

fucking what? trying to spin a narrative about a handful of posts i made directed at the resident troll/village idiot? i'm not sure why this bothers you so much. this doesn't make any sense.

#1181: Unexpected.

okay? and?

#1235: Should I buy this Peta?

like what the fuck is the point of asking me this? if you think my explanation for what i'm doing isn't believable just say so. it's the truth, though, so, yeah, you should buy it, but then i don't really understand what your issue with me this game is, apparently


like when i look at this i wonder what you're actually trying to say with these catch-ups? am i going to find the other ones to be just as incomprehensible? am i supposed to look at these and see the thoughts of a town player? because it's not coming through.

[petapan]

He also said he was mimicking (or maybe that was a joke?* Invitation to clarify) someone else's play at the time.

that was a joke. i explained in postgame. me during the first phase is who i am in games. not confirmed town me pretending to be someone else and acting in a manner where i can project leaderly qualities. everything from dy 1 on was the act. this is the real me.

[petapan]

Sometimes I see posts like that one Nahdia made I fussed over yesterday and go "what a fucking scum post"

mind clarifying which post that was?

[petapan]

Self narration is a scum tell I used since I got back with varying accuracy.

can you show me instances of where you've deployed this?

[petapan]

i know Peta is good scum

I played with him as scum once,

He shot me at night to make himself super-townie looking and then used the town-cred to dismantle the town and win the game.

Funniest part was he didn't even tell me he was going to shoot me - it was cold af.

he strikes me as the sort of scum who wants to win alone and doesn't want teammates to drag him down. It would explain the violent reaction.

this is the game btw if you are wondering:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=84227

also as an aside this is why i'm not really bothered by pooky going after me here - he & bulge are the only two people here to recently witness a scumgame of mine in any format, where i was a disgusting sweaty tryhard in a casual marathon game. obviously marathon game meta isn't really the same but familiarity breeds suspicion and so it feels natural that he'd be very wary of me this game

[petapan]

i'm not even seeing what you're seeing in those examples but where you're accusing me of that here is literally just me explaining a thing i did in the thread, not anything in my head

[petapan]

DiamondSentinel
#1260: Hmph very well! You can be town I guess. Shut up peta.

and like, this is weird to me too. i see that diamondsentinel exchange with ffery, it makes me think he's town for a couple reasons, i state that immediately, and in your catchup you tell me "shut up" when you're agreeing with the thing i said right away? wtf?

[petapan]

lmao

[petapan]

#1427: Thanks for responding to all of that. I am not going to respond in that format.

1. You compared a Saber/Titus post to Diamond whose posts read completely different.
2. You called Pooky prob town because he decided to shelve her. This was me being mad that shelving her was a good thing because I enjoyed it. I should probably have stated from the get go that it's a combination of reads, notes, bookmarks and communications directly to the players or to other players. It seems like a void because I was reading them in order so my thoughts are disjointed from one post to the next post as some posts percolated changing my reads while others stayed functionally the same. I try to keep myself entertained when I make these catch up posts because it's grueling to sit down and read everything. But it feels nice too because I rarely get so involved post by post as a game gets more and more dense I lose that focus. Or feel like I can't continue and read back due to the enormous task it involves.
3. It was a jibe at you moving your vote all over the place. Also, in the other game I did not peg you as somebody who had firm convictions on their reads. Being relatively honest about not knowing who the scum are.
4. A sketch to me is an unfinished haphazard drawing that captures the essence of a thing but not the totality of the thing. To me it felt like what you were saying was empty with a mix of shade thrown in. I directly pointed everyone to their own posts. So it's not like I didn't expect you to respond or challenge them.
5. That's what I just said. Because you acknowledged it. This is why I gave you 0.02 town points for the post. The earlier posts I felt were not in alignment with what you were saying and you didn't immediately clarify, you only clarified later. I was following along with the thought that you never would. But then you did.
6. We all make the "this post is pointless" post. You're doing it yourself. It's just an inefficiency thing. Everyone presumably knows that, so saying it isn't very enlightening.
7. It was a "can I see this post coming from town?" 'sure' or fair.
8. I have an empathy tell, it's not very good. It doubles as I "I get where you're coming from emotionally" point.
9. 1167 and 1170. Was acknowledging how you were defending yourself revealed little initially. You balled up and waited to make their point rather than exposing yourself by jumping to conclusions and letting them implicate themselves by making their meaning clear. It gives someone nothing. I felt it was a good strategy as either alignment. #1177 felt like a dead end. You're not really supposed to do anything with it. Unless you're interested in my thoughts processes.
10. Yeah.
11. It's unexpected that as scum you would cut off a potential ally like that. Which made me run down scum partner lane before derailing myself out of it.
12. Okay. It's fairly typical for me to ask questions like that one. There is no issue. Well, besides the fact that I can come off as more biting than I mean to. I was trying to be friendly but that really didn't come off right. I was speaking similarly to Syrana because I wanted to engage with you. I got my wish, but it looks like I pissed you off instead.
13. Why would I want to look good to you? Or anyone?


3.

i will be responding to the points where i feel there is something for me to build off

1. do you even know what specific post i was referencing? if not, how are you going to say they read different? (for the record, it was this post, and while it's worded a little differently, the formatting is pretty close to the idea i'm describing: "i'd vote for [townie], [townie], [townie] or maybe [scumbuddy]". this just had the end clause at the front. but you called it 'lazy' which i'm not sure i understand.
3. you're taking jibes at me while your vote's on me and by all indications still don't approve of me, i'm going to take it as critical toward me and in this context it's a weird thing to say because it feels like you're bypassing the substantive stuff to snipe at me
4. no, you said i was

"sitting on a fence"

and now you're saying

"it felt like what you were saying was empty with a mix of shade thrown in."

those are two different things. why are you trying to change your explanation here?
5. i don't even understand why you award town points there. or what you mean by "The earlier posts I felt were not in alignment with what you were saying and you didn't immediately clarify, you only clarified later."
6. everyone knows that i don't have enough townreads? news to me
9. i mean i'm interested in your thought process because i'm interested in trying to get a read on you? so why wouldn't i be? and you did put it out there for me to respond to it
11. i'm not sure what expectations you have for my scumplay, but your first instinct in me biting back at nahdia taking my side in an argument is to think we're scum together? when i had my vote on them and expressed a gut scumread there? why is your immediate assumption the least likely thing, rather than wondering if it makes sense for me to do it as town? you seem to be saying you took me being scum as a prior. am i to believe this is how you're actually thinking about things this game?
12. "should I buy this?" is skeptical in tone. i'm not sure how that's supposed to be friendly? in concert with the rest of your post and how you've reacted otherwise in the game i took it to be confrontational in nature. an you're dodging what i asked: what was the point of asking me that question? you say you "wanted to engage" with me, but "Should I buy this?" isn't exactly going to prompt much engagement? What were you hoping to get, here?
13. it's not about looking "good" per se, but about making yourself visible. towns win games when town players are visible to one another. for a lot of stuff you wrote in that post, i'm having a hard time looking at it and going "i can see someone thinking this way".

You're a mass of contradictions to me basically. So I don't know what to make of you.

where do you see me as being contradictory? and what have you done to try to resolve this?

[petapan]

lmao at that quote misfire that i will say nothing else about

[petapan]

Sometimes I see posts like that one Nahdia made I fussed over yesterday and go "what a fucking scum post"

mind clarifying which post that was?

This one

there's a reasonable chance at least one of the 2012 circlejerk is scum and im hoping they just sort themselves out so i dont have to

As soon as I read this I thought to myself what a scum motivated post this was because the circlejerk as they put it is dangerously close to all townreading each other and at least two members of said jerk are exceptionally prone to paranoia and this is the exact kind of thing scum would say to stir that pot without actually explicitly calling someone out.

i have actually seen town players make that type of post in a game offsite, except it was a slightly different tenor, where they were concerned about a somewhat close-knit group meta-reading each other as town too easily (and they were right! one of the players in that circle was scum). but that was paranoia, this is actually more...complacency? like, "oh, someone will sort it out". which is maybe not the best approach but is it a guaranteed scumpost? idk

[petapan]

you don't need to get into a conversation with someone to make reads...

That's how I make reads though. I talk to people.

were you hoping to get a read on me earlier

[petapan]

lol fair enough, i enjoyed the bantz, i would be worried if that was supposed to be a real attempt

[petapan]

Cabd
#850: Push.
#984: Did you roll scum this game?

#898: Explanation given post-wagon formation. This is a more subtle push at Cabd's authority maybe? Gunna file this thought away under the Cake Agenda.

i have to ask if these are consistent thoughts you're putting together in your head as you read the game, or what b/c they seem unfocused in a bad way. i don't mean this as a "gotcha" but this seems like a wild vacillation

[petapan]

Made a post that you responded to so we could talk.


1. My understanding was that the post was similar in that they classified people in a list, the rule of three which is used for literature, was being used here in a game of mafia. It lacks nuance and context and giving it credibility or an entertaining it as anything more than the equivalent in accuracy to a food tell is not going to inspire confidence.
3. does it seem that way to you?
4. Your action was to fence sit by not voting or making it more clear what was sketchy about it. It's empty because you didn't pursue, didn't explain it at the time I responded to that post (by necessity really). It probably didn't help that it was a reworked sentence about you sketching a sketching of a sketcher sketching.
5. To me it was scummy that you let the misinterpretation sit initially. Then you turned back around corrected him between the posts. Scum gradient goes up, scum gradient goes down. There's an element of time to my posts which I already explained where impressions of events change.
6. I'm not following.
9. Yes that was what I was trying to get you to say. Because I'm always challenging my reads on people and I wanted to see if you would.
11. I was leaning scum on you, but you defied those impressions by doing something townie or reversing the initial impression as mistaken.
12. Asking people directly is what I do. It creates a scenario where scum get nervous that town might respond accurately. Scum might hesitate to be too intimate or ask another person to trust them. It's a test and it's always been intended as one. You answered, I'm thinking. Much of mafia is about asking yourself what you choose to believe about what's town and what's scum. I just broke it along a different axis between whether what someone is saying is true or not and what people's responses to that might be and how that might help me read them.
13. I made a post and asked you to read it and you came back which is the beginning of a resolution one way or another. You've gotten 2 such resolutions, did you earn it? Did you scare scum off you? or did you cow town into backing off?

it's not just the listing of names but the

way

they go about it but i don't really want to go further on this discussion given it was a light read that isn't relevant to me anymore.

yes, i had gotten no meaningful impression your read on me changed and your catchup was definitely taking potshots my way. was i supposed to think otherwise? most of the stuff you said toward me was negative!

is not giving reasons fence sitting? you know what "fence sitting" is, dude, that's not the definition. i don't always out reasons when i say things right away. that should not be unexpected or scummy

it took a minute for me to mull over him townreading me in my head before i decided i had an issue there, but felt, eh, maybe challenging him immediately isn't the best approach, maybe he's being a little trusting, then subsequent posts amplified that feeling based on tone

you were...trying to get me to say i was interested in your thought process?

am i supposed to divine from "Unexpected. " that this is somehow me defying your expectations in a way that lead to you changing your read because

none of that

came through and if that's the case for me it's hard to say where your reads are on nearly anyone. and for that matter, where, exactly did i do something townie or reverse that initial impression?

with regard to 12: should i buy this?

the resolution i was hoping for in this exchange was not you backing off me, but you saying something that made sense to me. i haven't gotten it.

[petapan]

i have actually seen town players make that type of post in a game offsite, except it was a slightly different tenor, where they were concerned about a somewhat close-knit group meta-reading each other as town too easily (and they were right! one of the players in that circle was scum). but that was paranoia, this is actually more...complacency? like, "oh, someone will sort it out". which is maybe not the best approach but is it a guaranteed scumpost? idk

I mean it's one thing to inject that sort of sentiment and go "Hey x, y, z, I think you might be townreading w a little too easily" and then segue into some followup case/questions/interactions/interrogations/summoning servants but here, it just sits on a list of pointing at things going "hey, i might or might not disagree" and/or arguing with you

Hmm. I typed out like 4 or 5 different inclusions to my argument here and didn't really like any of them. It's possible this is a playstyle clash. I'll have to think about it.

Nice chat, peta!

to be clear i'm not even sold on nahdia as town i'm just saying that post wasn't super-scummy to me (although i did townread their last post for incredibly dumb reasons)

[petapan]

I have a bad emotional habit of expressing my real thoughts and then expecting people to interpret them correctly when Mafia has regularly shown me that's the opposite of the case.

You've read it. You don't know what I'm doing, but I explained what I'm doing. So you either don't know whether to believe me or already know.

what i know is that our dance here is about over and my answer to cabd is

VOTE: Bell

[petapan]

weren't you just implying you were backing off from me because i defied your impressions?

[petapan]

it's not that i'm asking you to prove you're town, it's that i don't find the apparent processes behind anything you're doing to be believable. that includes snap voting me here as an immediate response.

man if you're actually town this game i'm gonna be crushed

[petapan]

no like i went over your whole catchup, and our whole argument, and that stuff didn't feel genuine? there was never a moment where i had the feeling of "i can see where you're coming from". and you got all squirrely with your responses like trying to explain was uncomfortable.

was me voting you really enough to completely change your opinion of me again? (i'm not sure wtf you were expecting the outcome there to be)


w/e this is going to fly over the heads of 90% of the players and they're just not going to read this

[petapan]

I had a few posts quoted in different tabs from earlier catchups going days back but I just went through and closed each of them one-by-one. I guess I don't have much to say at the moment.

i've been finding it hard to lately to stay focused on analysis. Like I can stay caught up and get reading done but it's like my brain is watching it all unfold without ever catching on that it's supposed to be guessing how it all ends, and any idea I think I get about the game is fleeting

so, I'm sorry my content has been so atrocious this game. I promise you it is very much irl mental state influenced and nothing like a specific thread avoidance. I do want to stay in the game but I think I need to adjust how I approach the game for the time being instead of putting myself under all this pressure to perform to this-plist standards. once again i'm sorry for the inactive slot, I know that can be incredibly frustrating to solve around and ultimately bad for the health of the game.

i think people are willing to give you that time, anything i can do to help get your head in the game?

like hell you could try just commenting on the last couple of pages without context and see where that gets you

[petapan]

yes

but also do you uhh want to talk about reads now

[petapan]

{Something_Smart, Midway, Ffery}
{Tammy, Cake, Syr}
{Alisae, Petapan}
{Gamma, Nahdia}
~~~Line of How low Can You Limbo?~~~
{Diamond, Bell, Taylor}
~~~Line of Enough Data (I don't know where to place this players yet)~~~
{Bulge, Pookey}
{Jake*}


*To be meta'd, I know syr mentioned having done some research but I need to fact check.

Excluding Bell, what are your adjustments here if you gun-to-head?

actually coming around to s_s town as he's starting to hit me on a gut level as "lost townie detached from the game"

explain tammy town to me i guess, i don't have the familiarity there for that read

diamond's frustration in 1260 felt legitimate, and immediately prior to that when ffery tried to reach out to him and he slapped her hand back it felt a townie sort of paranoia. i would have significant doubts there if bell is scum, though, but preflip associatives bad etc etc

bell, well...you saw what just went down. initially i wanted to see his pushback at me as town when i voted him the first time, the indignation still gave me doubts but i noticed after i unvoted, he went back to being coast-y, so i waited to see in his catchup, which i hated a lot. and then things happened. i don't feel he's coming across as genuine. his whole progression towrd me made no sense. i don't expect most people to understand or follow, though. people want short and snappy, not drawn-out arguments.

for tay, well...i'm not sure. i don't expect good reads or event coherent logic there. but there are certain aspects of their play this game i could see as being scum motivated. but they're also the second easiest elimination in this game, and Bell's vote on them was pretty shitty. so i probably don't want to go there? at least not today.

still not enough data on pooky?

[petapan]

Reading Diamond this game reminds me one hell of a lot of reading Shielder in the last game; I want to scumread it because wtf but there's indications of towniness (e.g. 1260) and makes me just think that their thought process is alien to me like Shielder's was. GTH town

see i don't feel he's overly alien at all i just feel he's literal minded and maaybe a little surfacey but not in a scum way, necessarily? i can read what he says and see him believing those things (but then, he strikes me as someone who'd want to vote jake out regardless of his own alignment, you know? so i don't think the push there is terribly AI)

[petapan]

actually coming around to s_s town as he's starting to hit me on a gut level as "lost townie detached from the game"

Can we talk about this

I know it's a gut read, but I don't think I would really have any trouble faking acting lost as scum. (Or genuinely being lost, honestly) Can you elaborate at all on why you think this isn't as likely to be a scum tactic?

i don't - it's a guess based on a feeling from reading the way your posts are written. same as the way i might try to guess if a player who is inactive and not saying much is a bored VT. could be wrong, of course, wouldn't say you're a strong townread, but my gut has gone from not liking you to thinking you might be all right

[petapan]

Hi!

Where does Diamond go?

{Syr, Cabd, Tammy}
{Sir Cakez, S_S, midway, Jake, Alisae} << putting Alisae here to see how my gut feels about that
{Gamma, Pookie}
------line of quantum wtfery----------
{Bell} << Shrodinger's box, but still leaning a little townward. I'll explain why in a bit, probs
{Diamond} << Brain says scum, gut says not
-------------------------------------
Tayl0r, Nahdia



Bulge unplaced.

Bulge if there's stuff I can do to help you get your foot back into the game, let me know!

i see i am so intimidating to read i apparently no longer exist in this game

[petapan]

the excuses that the 2012 people are hard to mesh with are so bs
they make up ~half the game and it's really easy to read past the in-jokes and engage
I have had literally no problems with this

also i've known most of these people for like, a month and most of that was under an alt

[petapan]

well hell

[petapan]

what a fucking rand on that hood lmfao

[petapan]

I'm somewhat skeptical of this wagon on Taylor though. I'll reread her posts sometime soon though.

i mean this is somewhat biased now but of those 5 definitely see them as the least town, i did feel as though even though they'd had a nonsense approach in our last game there were issues here which i hinted at but this is after the fact now so my view is going to be biased

[petapan]

Townblock application line is here in my circular file.. or firing squad?

If you're town, I really need to know it within 4 pages. I'm deathly afraid how things might go otherwise.

otherwise he will probably betray you!

This post raised the fuck out of my hackles. I think Tayl0r was trying to signal to the scum team.

skjjsskjskssjksjskjsksjskjskjs

[petapan]

I don’t particularly like all the vote’s raining down on Taylor.

But then again I’m the paranoid one in our dethy

i mean it's not like it's terribly AI either way, right?

[petapan]

Ok Listen up!

This game has a dethy in it: A neighborhood with 4 town cops of unknown sanity, one each of {naive, paranoid, insane, and sane} And a scum traitor rolecop.

We were going to see how today plays out and try to solve the dethy on our own. But, we're extremely sure who the traitor is and we want our fuckin masonry now.

The dethy is Tammy, Syryana, Jake, Tayl0r and myself.

I crumbed the dethy in my second post.

We want to elim Tayl0r.

Will you help?

Interesting. You're dead set on it being Taylor here as opposed to Jake?

I agree that Taylor looks scum, but Jake looks way more scum in my eyes.

it would be clever but not impossible for jake to call out syr/alisae as potential signaling when he is the traitor. he's had a couple of posts that showed some flashes of possibly trying to read people. have you looked at his other games? even if you don't give a shit about meta i think it's useful to set the baseline expectation for what his play is like because if you're trying to fit him to a typical mafia plyer model you're, uh, setting the wrong expectations

[petapan]

Did everyone just ignore 1606? That is very weird

i have thoughts that i'm not really sure i can say and there is a nightmare scenario in my mind but i can't really do anything about it

[petapan]

Tammy sorry if you've gone more in-depth somewhere already, but im wondering about your bell placement. from what I remember reading youve spent far more time elaborating on why bell is not town than why he is not full informed scum and I'm not sure I understand what's stopping you from scumbinning him. how set are you on the double traitor theory, or were you just wanting to put your thoughts out?

I literally just thought about a double traitor theory this morning when I was trying to figure out what the fork he’s doing here. (Although there was some talk in the neighborhood about possible setups Nd multiple deaths, but we decided against those.

Yesterday I wondered if the scum team knew of the existence of a traitor and thought that it possible everyone was searching for something. I was thinking about the setup because we have 17 players which would typically mean 4 scum but three scum plus one traitor doesn’t feel right, so this morning I thought maybe two?

I just don’t understand what bell is doing here if he’s town or scum.

i actually did a dive on fakegod large themes to estimate how many scum in a game and surprisingly 3 out of 17 is the typical number, BUT those are typically open or semi-open setups with either some specialized wincon, or extra killing power on the mafia side. this one is full closed (a rarity!) and so there's no secret wincon, 3 groupscum + a traitor would make sense imo

[petapan]

I thought what Jake's post revealed was that he didn't know how traitors work.

my god it's beautiful

[petapan]

well for example based on the last couple pages i have a stronger townread on SS and scumreads on peta and bell.

midway is scum too. pooky feels not great but im not sure yet.

i'd ask you to explain your reads but i already said i don't expect them to be good or make sense even if you are town

[petapan]

tammy's reactions here since the hood outing look town. not like super locktown or anything but yeah

[petapan]

please don't be another throw

[petapan]

VOTE: tayl0r swift

[petapan]

nahdia might be scum btw idk

[petapan]

ffery, tammy, jake conftown.
midwaybear free space.
cakez town. cabd likely town because all his top townreads are likely town so if scum he'd be boxing himself out. coming around on s_s town toward the end of the day. feel fairly good about gamma town as well. i'll call pooky town too even though that's one more townread than i need.

scum in {Bell, Alisae, Bulge, DS, Nahdia}

might be one of those games

[petapan]

i'll call pooky town too even though that's one more townread than i need.

more words, man!

feels legit

[petapan]

i'll call pooky town too even though that's one more townread than i need.

more words, man!

feels legit

his EoD looks bad to me.

VOTE: pookythemagicalbear

i thought the opposite but i'm willing to hear you out

[petapan]

he defends taylor, then wont elaborate, then just questions her without any followup, and never actually votes.

oh my brain blocked that from my memory. but then it's only necessarily AI if he was sure she was the traitor? which, given signalling, maybe.

but see, the thing is the suggestion taylor was trolling was something that was very much on the forefront of my mind as well because i just came from a game where as town they fakeclaimed part of their role PM being something different from what all other town players had, then later changed it to something else. i voted out their slot, they flipped town. so i was pretty much dreading the possibility they were flat-out fucking gamethrowing here. never been more grateful to see a red flip on someone who i had already had as pretty much poe scum. so i don't even know that his suggestion there was scummy.

[petapan]

Peta - talk about your gamma townread?

Can you?

Sorry shorthand don’t mean to be rude.

had been thinking the way he responded to me initially, the way he back off nahdia more likely town. later posts also seem to show a decent amount of scumhunting. like that he goes so far as to put bell ahead of himself in the last line of 1792 even if i'm not gonna follow the read, shows some depth of thought. on a reread of iso not as strong as i thought, some of earlier posts are still somewhat iffy but still probaby townlean over the players i have in the poe

[petapan]

@PETA, why am I in your PoE?

why tf do you think you're in there

[petapan]

peta when you have a solid opinion on Nahdia I'd love to know what it is.

still haven't really said enough themselves to judge on merit, felt poe-ish scum toward the end of yesterday but

might

be an island this game which would mean town. i know that's not helpful but the most i can say rigght now

[petapan]

im only here because I've been socially isolated for the last 7 months and I'm very lonely

well i'm glad you're here pooky

[petapan]

well i'm glad you're here pooky

I'm also glad you're here peta.

if only we were scum together again :3 you could shoot me early ^_^

don't think it would work as well this time lol

[petapan]

constant logical missteps, misrepresenting arguments

gonna need some citations for these

[petapan]

i'm seeing 1939 and 1953 and neither clears the bar of "constant logical missteps" or "misrepresenting arguments". the strength of your evidence does not match the language you're using

[petapan]

I've had diamond as a lower tier townish read based on a few reactions and interactions with peta? and ffery? I think. However, I don't like the weird focus he had on me, ffery, cabd, and syry after midway bear asked about his read on us. If he's scum, he might have used a town's suggestion to focus there though he did branch out to the rest of the game. What I don't like today is how he's acting like nahdia is soooo super scummy. A) I don't like the suggestion that someone is lying about real life issues as it didn't seem like a lie and they can be scum regardless, but B) and this is more important yesterday I asked about his read on nahdia and he claimed there wasn't enough to go on but today he pulls up their posting from yesterday to make a case against them which just feels convenient

My only hesitation is that he has some weird beliefs in behavior and content so I'm not sure if we're in a world where diamond sentinel is just being his weird outtake self or if he's actually scum.

what i'm getting from the meta dump is that a lot of the stuff i was taking as town indicative from him is in fact null

[petapan]

I'm a little less sanguine about Gamma, but would be willing to discuss. Still not entirely comfortable about that mastina-style catchup while all sorts of shit was going on in real time.

you may want to reference his recently completed scumgame

[petapan]

wdym by put bell ahead of myself

"you should think he's town regardless of your read on me" felt like a townie sort of thought

[petapan]

quote it maybe? My gut sense would be to call DS town off that

am i the only one at this point who thinks DS is probably town?

i don't really know what i'd read off of that. the timing of it was such that, he was in the bottom of cabd's scumreads that i misread, but no one was actively talking about voting him, it was very out of the blue. would kind of prefer to just not drink the wine and read him off his own posts

[petapan]

I'm liking Alisae's content too jsyk

what is it that you've liked

[petapan]

I did agree with that when you quoted the posts from Tay
VOTE: Cakez

is that really all it takes for you to vote someone

[petapan]

but I also think SC's pushing of Nahdia is ringing a little sketchy at this point

cakez hasn't pushed nahdia since day 1 and he backed down roughly the same time as you did

what changed exactly?

[petapan]

i will say im a little uncomfortable with how many poes i end up in when all anyone is saying about me is null.

buddy you're in the PoE because you're not a townread

[petapan]

this is why my death pool is now [alisae, nahdia, bulge]
three super demotivated players

where has alisae's posting struck you as demotivated

[petapan]

Any other neighborhoods should claim immediately

Anyone with ANY type of clear on a member of the non-confirmed towns should claim immediately

Please quote this post when you have read it and confirmed neither of the above applies to you. Thanks!

neither of these apply to me

i think i owe the game a proper reread now that the pool is limited

[petapan]

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

[petapan]

bulge also a good vote tbh

[petapan]

Seems like this game might have more neighborhoods than usual

what makes you say that?

Townblock application line is here in my circular file.. or firing squad?

If you're town, I really need to know it within 4 pages. I'm deathly afraid how things might go otherwise.

otherwise he will probably betray you!

ping ping
really dislike this entrance (I'm sorry I love your music )

so what was this about

[petapan]

there were like 5 posts from people i actually need to get a read on in the first 10 pages

[petapan]

pages 11-15 have me thinking midway/ds unlikely, midway/bell unlikely, not that i really scumread midway anyway

[petapan]

15-20: cakez/ds maybe, cakez/gamma slightly less likely (think this is unlikely from posts later in the thread that i remember)

And what about ds/bell?

i haven't seen anything in my reread so far that would cause me to rule that out. there's a lot of people bell could be teamed with i think

[petapan]

I thought Taylor was scummy? What do you think it means?

what about those posts was scummy

[petapan]

so i'm rereading and so much of the posts are by now claimed masons that i was reminded of this post

the last couple pages are strange and there wasnt really anything fun to respond to. im pretty sure scum were active and working to distance from each other though, because a lot of shit was thrown but no votes were placed

and can't help but wonder if this is the exact opposite of reality

[petapan]

DS reaction to bell wagon could very well be a partner one

[petapan]

cakez/bell also a maybe. cakez/nahdia maybe less likely. i had a thing on gamma/cakez interactions around cakez's nahdia push but decided to scrap it entirely - they have a dispute over the nahdia read, gamma sheeps cakez, cakez questions him about changing his read so quickly, then it kind of dies with no response from gamma. whole thing could totally be distancing if i wanted to view it that way.

not getting as much out of this as i'd hoped

[petapan]

so i'm rereading and so much of the posts are by now claimed masons that i was reminded of this post

the last couple pages are strange and there wasnt really anything fun to respond to. im pretty sure scum were active and working to distance from each other though, because a lot of shit was thrown but no votes were placed

and can't help but wonder if this is the exact opposite of reality

i got to page 50, saw this post in context along the way, and would bet pretty decently this is a sort by post count game and it

might

mean nahdia town. other than that, idk, mark nahdia/gamma as less likely to be teamed. think that's where i pause.

[petapan]

actually one last quick note: DS's reads this game lack nuance

[petapan]

why's bell a townread

[petapan]

oh right

[petapan]

actually one last quick note: DS's reads this game lack nuance

What about Cakez? They seem similar except for Cakez actually being right on one of his reads.

i haven't noticed that as much? simply expressed maybe but he hasn't raised the same flags. i'm talking about how diamond's moves thus far have been to attack two lowposters (jake and nahdia) with this sort of aggressive certainty that they are scum

Isn't this game already locked?

i highly doubt that the setup was made so that everyone outing on day 2 breaks it and would warn against such complacency

[petapan]

I'm probably going to have to suspend my catch up soon so I'll post what my reads are rn so I can work off the list when I start back up

conftown: cabd, jake, tammy, ffer, SS
townreads: alisae, bell
townleans: peta, pooky
unsorted: bulge, mwb
tentative scumlean: nahdia
scumreads: DS, cakez

why am I on the same tier as midwaybear?

you need to answer this

[petapan]

I'm not as confident that cakez is town as some others are. i liked how comfortable cakez felt early on, didn't like his mini-attack on ffery calling her early reads proto-reads, and liked the push on Tayl0r. Syry pushed back on my doubt about cakez because he thought that his excitement on getting the traitor role cop lynched was real and he didn't think he'd be that jazzed about it.

And he's not wrong in that assessment, i'm just. in a world where i were scum and knew a traitor existed, and Taylor came out playing the way she was and looked to be a danger to her team with how she was playing, i might bus that shit and be happy about it too. And some people as scum can only get excited about a lynch when they're bussing a partner.

i'm not saying that's the world we live in. i'm not like omg cakez is such scum; i just don't feel as comfortable at town reading him as strongly as some others are.

(my shift key is now working intermittently :/)

i'm not as sure there either anymore. lack traction for reads on most people though. reread not doing much for me

[petapan]

tammy i wish you had more thoughts on this game and not on old games

Me too!

dammit we crossposted and then my browser went out and I lost my post.

It wasn't anything great, but it is apropos to this post so I'll just rewrite it as a reply.

I've got some free time today so I'll actually be able to read this game mostly undistracted and not while also trying to work. Before my actual read, I've got working town reads on midwaybear, ffery, cabd, sryry. I don't even know why on midwaybear though; I just remember liking this posts.

I was looking at the playerlist last night and I realized that I don't actually have active suspicions on anyone*. Some pings here and there which has me wondering if it's setup related or if scum are in the people that I just haven't seen posting much? I don't know; hopefully a reread fixes that.

Although! If you're vote on me was serious, it's wrong, but I think you'll realize that once I have some thoughts on the game after actually reading it. I hope. I hope I have thoughts.

well the process was raelizing i don't actually remember anything about how you play, which made me realize i didn't remember anything you've done this game, which led me to read back on you and realize i don't townread you and i'm not sure why anyone does. i didn't have any serious intentions of attempting to wagon you (i was going giving you and diamondsentinel the "first game off a hiatus" d1 pass regardless of my read), but felt the need to express that read in a visible fashion

lowkey feeling this
my last game with Tammy she felt a lot more "actively town"
if that makes sense

Bell vote Taylor with me

VOTE: Taylor swift

Guess you read my whole post.

hahaha tbh I only read the parts on mine and Taylor and that was enough

major respect to ffery and Petapan for actually responding to everything in Bell's catchup

Can we plz wagon him now ... ^
I really dont think he's this bad

"i'm scum and don't want to effort"

There haven’t been that many times I’ve seen town make a catch-up post like that. The format itself whether it’s by player or page automatically pings me. It’s made worse when there are so many unnecessary comments or comments that don’t add anything, which makes it look like padding.

yeah it reeks of catchups I used to make as scum. it's not really helpful but it looks good on the surface.

wait, motherfucker how did i not notice this

[petapan]

Peta, what was YOUR point in that quote wall?

cakez is talking to bell and telling him to vote taylor with him, saying he only read the sections pertaining to him and taylor, and then on the same page just a few posts later agreeing with tammy that "it reeks of catchups I used to make as scum"

[petapan]

how do you possibly have bulge and midwaybear in the same tier of reads though

[petapan]

Why the fuck shouldn’t I? I’m not really judging every post and then summing how I felt up, I’m just going off of what I think as I read the thread. What the hell is the reason me having those 2 in the same tier of reads is such a critical offense? Because you and Bulge seem to be insinuating that.

b/c bulge has been basically a nonentity while midwaybear has very much not been

gonna need you to cite what taylor interactions with him are supposedly so bad

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: SirCakez