Smoke-Filled Antechamber [Endgame]

[DiamondSentinel]

VOTE: T Swizzle

I never liked her music.

[DiamondSentinel]

I have a "get out of this game before endgame if it becomes a toxic hellhole" coupon, ffery. Be jealous. Be very jealous.

That does incite a little envy!

It's name is "Ffery's day three freakout" and it's a 100% guarantee.

This suggests you know the colors of my rolecard.

It's purple, right?

[DiamondSentinel]

Do we know there are no 3P? I'm not seeing that anywhere.

[DiamondSentinel]

Oh, the second DM. I see now.

My bad, I'm notoriously bad at reading DMs.

[DiamondSentinel]

VOTE: Jake
This needs to go. The amount of absolutely nothing you're adding is, as the kids say, whack.

PEdit: dear god make the cringeRP stop

[DiamondSentinel]

I kinda dig the RP it adds vibes

Not really. It just gives Pooky something to hide behind while he’s definitely capable of more. A successful town has everyone engaged and focused, so I think Pooky should just stop if he is town.

Absolutely this. If it were someone like Titus, I might just be inclined to believe it's a clever setup for some moon logic scumhunting, but this just reads like they're trying to do nothing.

[DiamondSentinel]

Unfortunately, being a worthless bump on a log is not a solid scumtell. But TSwizzle's buddying sure as hell is and makes me want to slap that vote back on her even more.

[DiamondSentinel]

This needs to go. The amount of absolutely nothing you're adding is, as the kids say, whack.

So many LHF in this game darn. I'd say give him a day or two to do stuff before arriving at this vote though.

Fucking seriously. We could start a jam factory with how much there is.

Like I get this is sorta still RVS/shitposting stage, but

come on

[DiamondSentinel]

Ooh a pagetop.

Anyways, I'm mostly just gonna go to the backline until Nahdia posts more. I can read them fairly well.

[DiamondSentinel]

This needs to go. The amount of absolutely nothing you're adding is, as the kids say, whack.

So many LHF in this game darn. I'd say give him a day or two to do stuff before arriving at this vote though.

Fucking seriously. We could start a jam factory with how much there is.

Like I get this is sorta still RVS/shitposting stage, but

come on

You seem pretty worked up.

Last time I swear.

Anyways, I’m annoyed, true, but not really worked up. This lack of genuine conversation just makes it hard to find a solid tell on people.

[DiamondSentinel]

This lack of genuine conversation just makes it hard to find a solid tell on people.

Not everyone has been roleplaying and doing stuff like that
Any thoughts on the dynamic between Cabd, fferylt, Tammy, and Syryana or is it similarly unreadable to you like the roleplay? Also, let me know what you think about SirCakez

Aight, so I've played a couple games with Cabd and fferylt so I'll start with them.

This reads heavily like town fferylt. It's hard to explain, but the general demeanor has a lot of direction that kinda lacks in her scumgame.
Cabd is a null!scum read. It really reads as if he's begging for validation from other folks in the crowd, specifically Tammy, but that's not as hard of a read on Cabd as it is with some others.

Tammy equally reads null!scum, but I'm not sure if I like these two together. For someone as experienced as them, they're giving a whole lot of half-assed content. Plus, they've interacted really poorly with you and fferylt (for the record, I've got you as a null!town rn, but we'll see). But back to what I originally touched on, I don't think that Cabd+Tammy is scum theater. That's the only strong read I have rn in this pair.

Syryana reads a decent null!town rn. Her reaction to your engagement sounded natural, but beyond that there's not much else. A lot of posts that had a lot of words, but didn't really

say

anything.

PEdit: Holy shit a lot of posts while I was digging through. Umm, yeah, fferylt, my main question is what are your reads on some of the lesser posted people (so not the other 3 in the quad above, and not midway)

[DiamondSentinel]

This lack of genuine conversation just makes it hard to find a solid tell on people.

Not everyone has been roleplaying and doing stuff like that
Any thoughts on the dynamic between Cabd, fferylt, Tammy, and Syryana or is it similarly unreadable to you like the roleplay? Also, let me know what you think about SirCakez

Aight, so I've played a couple games with Cabd and fferylt so I'll start with them.

This reads heavily like town fferylt. It's hard to explain, but the general demeanor has a lot of direction that kinda lacks in her scumgame.
Cabd is a null!scum read. It really reads as if he's begging for validation from other folks in the crowd, specifically Tammy, but that's not as hard of a read on Cabd as it is with some others.

Tammy equally reads null!scum, but I'm not sure if I like these two together. For someone as experienced as them, they're giving a whole lot of half-assed content. Plus, they've interacted really poorly with you and fferylt (for the record, I've got you as a null!town rn, but we'll see). But back to what I originally touched on, I don't think that Cabd+Tammy is scum theater. That's the only strong read I have rn in this pair.

Syryana reads a decent null!town rn. Her reaction to your engagement sounded natural, but beyond that there's not much else. A lot of posts that had a lot of words, but didn't really

say

anything.

PEdit: Holy shit a lot of posts while I was digging through. Umm, yeah, fferylt, my main question is what are your reads on some of the lesser posted people (so not the other 3 in the quad above, and not midway)

Aside from snap-reads on players I know pretty well, I don't have much yet.

I don't think you've ever played against scum-me so I'm curious that your townread is that strong. I'm thinking back on the Perpetual Mylo game that I modded a while back as a sord of yardstick to measure against your play here.

I like that Bell did a quick reach-out to me, but I'm kinda meh in terms of follow-up.

I'm also kinda meh about petapan and that saddens me.

I've seen s_s do a couple things that look like decent town maintenance and from that one time I meta'd him that's more of an attribute of his town game.

These are mostly not reads. They're sort of proto-reads - the first building blocks. There is noise in the thread, and for now I'm not trying to sort the players in the middle of those swirls.

Oh shit you right. I swore I played against a scum hydra with you and Titus, but no. That wasn’t.
:/
Time to go do some research, I guess.

[DiamondSentinel]

What's the rush?

@Diamond this is a question for ya

The rush is that I am always bad at gaining information from RVS and so I like to move out of it ASAP.

[DiamondSentinel]

Do I need a reason to townread folks beyond “what they do sounds town”? I was wrong about having seen your scumgame (I swore I’d played with you more than once but I guess not. Your name just stood out to me on the list), but I still do think that what you’ve said sounds genuine and town.

[DiamondSentinel]

What's this about 60 pages?

[DiamondSentinel]

Holy shit I just realized who your avatar is midway. Nice. I used to play that game a while back.

[DiamondSentinel]

AVATAR CHANGE!

I finished Chapter 6 of higurashi and just starting on chapter 7.
When I play VNs I usually crop out the bits I like of the CGs

How is that? I started it a while back and just couldn't finish.

[DiamondSentinel]

midway, Cabd, Syryana, give me your rational on why you're voting Bell. His is the biggest wagon and I'm curious why.

Also, we entirely positive they're an alt? Who for?

[DiamondSentinel]

Holy shit I just realized who your avatar is midway. Nice. I used to play that game a while back.

Niiice. What was your highest rank?

I made it to SA. I was an Idris jg main back before 5v5 dropped.

[DiamondSentinel]

I'm officially not happy with the Bell wagon

I'm not happy with a lot of stuff right now.
Not a fan of midway's "highpost" strategy, as that pings my radar, but that goes for a lot of folks here.
I don't like Bell, but I like his wagon even less.
Compared to what I saw when peta was assassin (I've read through FGO a bit out of curiosity), I'm not really a fan of what he's doing here either.
I'm not a huge fan how there are no real in-betweens the 2 extremes of "spamming posts, half of which don't pertain to the game" and "complete ghosting".

[DiamondSentinel]

This bell wagon really pings me as similar to perpetual mylo's string.

[DiamondSentinel]

Oh I also want Something Smart to post more. I'm intrigued about their behavior and I'd like to see more.

Also, shit, I'm really sorry peta. Do you have a preferable pronoun?

[DiamondSentinel]

This bell wagon really pings me as similar to perpetual mylo's string.

I don't know this reference, can you please enlighten me

More directed at fferylt. But anyways, outa the gate 3 of my scum buddies started immediately hard-bussing me, and I didn't take the fake pressure well, so it really hamstrung us and pretty much lost us the game. Bell is not looking hot at all right now, but that wagon stinks.

Also, I don't have a decent alternative.

[DiamondSentinel]

Can we get some coverage on Jake? I still feel pretty good about my vote on him. Others I'd be interested in voting include peta, cabd, and maybe Syr.

Bell's response really doesn't make me feel any better about them, but I'm not really sure what else we'd get out of it.

[DiamondSentinel]

Syr I think just deserves a bit of pressure. Not a hard read on them by any means, but something's bugging me.
Oh, and Tammy should get some of the pressure pie. Kinda forgot about that read, but there isn't much to make me feel any better.

[DiamondSentinel]

So, Diamond Sentinel is there a particular reason you're not interacting with or questioning the people you suspect? Why just spit names in the ether?

I'm not very good at questioning folks (I wasn't before, and I'm quite out of practice). I'll join in if someone helps, but I'm no good at leading it myself.

my feeling on jake is he's probably going to get himself yeeted at some point this game and i have no idea which way he'll flip

I specifically joined a Large game to avoid getting executed first.

Is there a reason that you're so unwilling to put in heavy lifting, then?

I fear that whatever I say will always be turned against me, even if it's the towniest thing that has ever been done before, and I'll end up as the first blood again.

Oh hello scum tell. You uhh, you're really making this obvious for us.

[DiamondSentinel]

When I posted that comment, it was specifically in response to 221 which read

horribly

Continuing down to things that I don't like about Cabd's iso. 677 reads terribly, as mod meta is

never

a reason to discount a role being in the game, to say nothing of how counter-productive set-up speculation is (this is almost a universal scumread in my eyes).
789 also reads similarly to 221, although to a different extent. They both read desperate for approval, but this time of varying accounts.
795 makes me want to vote them just out of principle. 805 is the same way.
817 is the only post that reads remotely town in that iso (everything else is null at best), but damn if it doesn't make me want to vote them

again

out of principle.

[DiamondSentinel]

It's begging for you to agree with them, or at the very least grant his reads merit. In my experience, it's been a horrible scum-tell, where a player asking for someone to validate their reads is just trying make them seem legitimate.

[DiamondSentinel]

I mean, you kinda are. Like, probably the second lowest hanging fruit in this thread besides Jake, but I genuinely think that Jake should be lynched in spite of being LHF.

[DiamondSentinel]

It's begging for you to agree with them, or at the very least grant his reads merit. In my experience, it's been a horrible scum-tell, where a player asking for someone to validate their reads is just trying make them seem legitimate.

This wasn't asking for validation though? This was asking for feedback, as in "Do you agree or disagree with my reads?"
"

See, that's where you're wrong, buddy.

It's not just about what people say, but why do they say it? And specifically, why do they say it how they say it? Instead of saying "what do you think of my reads", why did they not say "what reads do you have on X, Y, and Z people?" The former has an inherent assertion that the reads have merit of their own, and it's a clever way to normalize someone's opinions.

PEdit: So a couple things.
I do know Cabd's personality, and it's not just personality that I'm reading. I've glanced at some of his recent games and this behavior is a bit off compared to those.
Additionally, at this point (this early in the game), working together should always be viewed with scrutiny. Even if they're metabuddies, any amount of immediate comradery should be viewed under the microscope.
And finally, I

have

looked at that possibility that he is trying to read your reaction, and I just don't find that credible. It doesn't hold much water. Anyone can react to someone's reads. It's, in my experience, one of the weaker types of ways to read people.

[DiamondSentinel]

Can we get some coverage on Jake? I still feel pretty good about my vote on him. Others I'd be interested in voting include peta, cabd, and maybe Syr.

Bell's response really doesn't make me feel any better about them, but I'm not really sure what else we'd get out of it.

i have seen it said offsite that listing names in the "w, x, y, or maybe z" is scummy, though. don't have enough experience to go "yeah this is scum" but i'm raising an eyebrow at the format here (does remind me of a Titus-Saber post though)

(could care less that i'm one of the names here and would probably like him on the merit of

who

he's naming, just the

way

he's doing it pings)

I'm going to take the "reminds me of a Titus post" as a compliment here.

[DiamondSentinel]

Man, the more I hear about this game, the more bummed I am that I didn't get to play it. Sounds like it was super fun.

[DiamondSentinel]

Oh also. I think I saw them a while back (I might be wrong), but who are the heads of morph? Is that Cabd and fferylt?

PEdit: Absolutely. Just because you disagree with someone's reads does not mean that they are not

legit

. Legitimate reads are reads that are working towards solving the game, not sowing discord. There are many people I've had disagreeing reads with historically that I also did not for a second doubt were town, and they truly meant those reads (and there are a fair few people who's said the same thing)

[DiamondSentinel]

PEdit: Absolutely. Just because you disagree with someone's reads does not mean that they are not legit. Legitimate reads are reads that are working towards solving the game, not sowing discord. There are many people I've had disagreeing reads with historically that I also did not for a second doubt were town, and they truly meant those reads (and there are a fair few people who's said the same thing)

Wait, you're getting me confused. What's the differences between

Merit

,

Normalize

, and

Legit

?

Functionally? Very little.
To normalize a set of reads (or a stance) would just be to grant that it is legitimate and has merit.
Merit is that it's not complete bullshit and is worth discussing.
Legitimacy is that it is meant to solve the game and not sow dissent.

[DiamondSentinel]

Functionally? Very little.
To normalize a set of reads (or a stance) would just be to grant that it is legitimate and has merit.
Merit is that it's not complete bullshit and is worth discussing.
Legitimacy is that it is meant to solve the game and not sow dissent.

It seems to me that reads either have merit or they don't, regardless of if the person tries to push merit on them or not. Is this correct?

More or less. Merit is a more objective measure of a read, but its recognition is subjective. People often won't realize that a person's reads have merit because of the fog and friction of the game.

[DiamondSentinel]

Syr I think just deserves a bit of pressure. Not a hard read on them by any means, but something's bugging me.
Oh, and Tammy should get some of the pressure pie. Kinda forgot about that read, but there isn't much to make me feel any better.

what makes a person deserving of pressure, in your opinion?:

Aight, so a couple things.
First, if they're relatively simple to read, or at least if I'm confident reading them, I will put pressure on them (or try to prod people to do so), but I won't say that aloud. That causes their behavior to shift.
But in the case of Syr and Tammy, both of these are because they are people who have, for one reason or another, not

truly

made enough content to get a solid read out of. While I have soft-reads on both of them, there isn't enough of a base to get a strong read that I"m confident in. And this varies from person to person. Yes, both of them have a fair bit of posts (more than me), but the amount of posts I need to get a solid read on someone varies wildly. Folks like Titus and Firebringer I can get reads on that are rarely wrong after 20 posts. Folks like Wisdom? Dayum I'm lucky to get a solid read after 200. (and yes, these are all not in this game, but I'm deliberate about using people not in this game, lest I be wrong and eat my words)

[DiamondSentinel]

Aight, so a couple things.
First, if they're relatively simple to read, or at least if I'm confident reading them, I will put pressure on them (or try to prod people to do so), but I won't say that aloud. That causes their behavior to shift.
But in the case of Syr and Tammy, both of these are because they are people who have, for one reason or another, not trulymade enough content to get a solid read out of. While I have soft-reads on both of them, there isn't enough of a base to get a strong read that I"m confident in. And this varies from person to person. Yes, both of them have a fair bit of posts (more than me), but the amount of posts I need to get a solid read on someone varies wildly. Folks like Titus and Firebringer I can get reads on that are rarely wrong after 20 posts. Folks like Wisdom? Dayum I'm lucky to get a solid read after 200. (and yes, these are all not in this game, but I'm deliberate about using people not in this game, lest I be wrong and eat my words)

can we limit posts to 3 lines plz

like how do you expect us to read this?

I admit I needed a double linebreak there.

But I regularly write paragraphs because that's what I need to get my point across. Not everyone shitposts their way to LyLo. Some of us play the game and speak eloquently.

[DiamondSentinel]

SC is probly scum - he's way too sweet here.

I'd vote him but MWB still hasn't apologized for causing the death of poor Eliza yet.

Idk about "too sweet" but his Nahdia push ain't great

@DS that seems fair, it's less about pushing people you think are shady and more about sorting people who you can read but don't have a read on

I personally think that pushing people because you want them lynched is a shitty strategy. It doesn't actually get scum, and instead just gets people who are unsure of their footing.

I push people because I want something set in stone that I can refer to at a later point.

Pedit: ooh pagetop

[DiamondSentinel]

(and yes, these are all not in this game, but I'm deliberate about using people not in this game, lest I be wrong and eat my words)

lol

are there any people in the game who would fit into the categories you're describing?

Perhaps.

[DiamondSentinel]

Low-Hanging Fruit doesn’t mean town. Nice straw man.

[DiamondSentinel]

You literally quoted me saying “I don’t care that Jake is LHF, he should be lynched”, claiming that I don’t care about actually voting scum.

Please, do tell what your argument was when you posted that. Or are you really backpedaling

that

hard that you don’t want to admit you said what you said not 15 minutes ago.

[DiamondSentinel]

You literally quoted me saying “I don’t care that Jake is LHF, he should be lynched”, claiming that I don’t care about actually voting scum.

Please, do tell what your argument was when you posted that. Or are you really backpedaling

that

hard that you don’t want to admit you said what you said not 15 minutes ago.

ah right, I misunderstood what you were saying then.
You're right, he has just about as much of a chance to roll scum as anyone else in the playerlist
Additionally, they have just about as much chance to roll town as anyone else in the playerlist.

Maybe this is just one huge misunderstanding, but is he scum for being LHF or something else?

The reasons he is scum and the reasons he is LHF are indeed similar, yes.

[DiamondSentinel]

You literally quoted me saying “I don’t care that Jake is LHF, he should be lynched”, claiming that I don’t care about actually voting scum.

Please, do tell what your argument was when you posted that. Or are you really backpedaling

that

hard that you don’t want to admit you said what you said not 15 minutes ago.

ah right, I misunderstood what you were saying then.
You're right, he has just about as much of a chance to roll scum as anyone else in the playerlist
Additionally, they have just about as much chance to roll town as anyone else in the playerlist.

Maybe this is just one huge misunderstanding, but is he scum for being LHF or something else?

The reasons he is scum and the reasons he is LHF are indeed similar, yes.

Have you ever played with Jake before?

No

[DiamondSentinel]

Scum me in PMyLo was motivated by frustration and hatred at my other scum members.

[DiamondSentinel]

Scum me in PMyLo was motivated by frustration and hatred at my other scum members.

What's motivating you here?

Now ain’t that the question of the hour

Another question before I answer. What do you do once I answer? Would you not expect me to lie out me ass if I were scum?

[DiamondSentinel]

Anyways, besides my dodging of the question, I’m not sure if I like the question. It seems like it’s a leading question, and the destination is some nefarious form of entrapment.

[DiamondSentinel]

Hmph. Very well.

I’m mainly acting out of a few mental states.
1. Frustrated with this dance of double meanings and inside jokes.
2. Frustrated with this incessant shitposting despite numerous attempts at steering the conversation into a direction.
3. Annoyed at the number of lurkers. While I understand being busy, it does not make it any easier to stomach.
4. Confusion at this odd town bloc for, what I’ve seen, nearly non-existent reasons. I’ve yet to see a solid reason why Cabd’s behavior is town motivated, and I also fail to see that for Tammy and Syr, yet a fair few of my more confident town reads (specifically you, although that’s dropping faster than I’d like) proclaim that they are acting consistently with a town mentality.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also yes, I'm being quiet because I'm typing a wall on mobile while ordering pizza for dinner (I am sad because the burger place I was planning on picking up from closes at 7 because of this damnable pandemic)

[DiamondSentinel]

Scummoning?

[DiamondSentinel]

Nah, that was the last post I made before I left to pick up pizza.

Plus, I compulsively check the thread.

[DiamondSentinel]

Nah, that was the last post I made before I left to pick up pizza.

Plus, I compulsively check the thread.

What kinds of posts warrant quick replies?

/shrug

I just sorta respond to whatever. The inner machinations of my mind are a mystery. Especially to me.

[DiamondSentinel]

4. Confusion at this odd town bloc for, what I’ve seen, nearly non-existent reasons. I’ve yet to see a solid reason why Cabd’s behavior is town motivated, and I also fail to see that for Tammy and Syr, yet a fair few of my more confident town reads (specifically you, although that’s dropping faster than I’d like) proclaim that they are acting consistently with a town mentality.

Earlier you said that you're not good at asking questions. Last night I took a look at Cyberpunk, which we were both in, and you seem fine at asking questions? I know that not everything's going to be the same; I'm not myself. But what I noticed in that game was how direct you were with people where my overall impression is that you're talking a bit about people but not talking directly to them in the same way.

I was also going to comment on what seemed like a bit of a fixation with cabd, syry, ffery, and me, which were names that were given to you to talk about, and there you had your hands in a more variety of people. BUT I reread your iso this morning and my impression of what you were doing in that regard is not what you are actually doing, which just goes to show that I really need to get started on reading this game when I can focus on it and not while I'm trying to work. Anyway i want to leave this impression here to come back to if I still feel this way when I've reread.

BUT I wanted to ask you about this. When you say town bloc here are you just referring to the group of us town reading each other to varying degrees or do you think we're acting in some type of block?

I've changed a lot in 3 years personally. I'm not remotely the same person I was then (definitely for the better). But aside from that, I was also very familiar with those players. I know 3 people on this playerlist (well 4 if you count Nahdia but they aren't posting much).

I genuinely think that you guys are acting as a bloc of sorts mainly out of some very odd meta-buddying and I'm not a huge fan of that remotely.

[DiamondSentinel]

I get nothing from them. The posts exist, technically, but they don't say much. In this instance, I don't particularly see it as AI but that might change. But they've barely interacted with people who are actually playing the game (they've got a bit with midway and peta), so there's not much there.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yeah I'll work on it once I'm able to sit down for a while. Right now I'm mobile-posting, just short messages and all.

[DiamondSentinel]

okay so I caught up and like
I don't have much to say or like add
honestly when I read up I feel like its just the same people posting and I don't really see a problem with any of it.

Quite frankly, I have no idea why the only read that Diamond is still pushing is Jake.
I'm not sure why voting Nahdia is productive when ideally that slot should be trying to generate content instead of just AtE
I have no idea why I feel like Pooky hasn't really done much aside from being a fun person to chat with
I'm starting to get concerned with Bulge's activity


I'm probably not voting any of Cabd, ffery, tammy, syr, midway, ss, cakez, peta, or gamma right now at least for the given moment.

1. They are doing literally nothing helpful.
2. What little they have posted screams of low effort thinly veiled scum-posting.
3. They're the one read I'm certain of.
4. They're a push that I'm confident can actually gain some traction.

I know that it hurts that I"m pushing your scumbuddy, but sometimes you just gotta let it go.

[DiamondSentinel]

Ok Listen up!

This game has a dethy in it: A neighborhood with 4 town cops of unknown sanity, one each of {naive, paranoid, insane, and sane} And a scum traitor rolecop.

We were going to see how today plays out and try to solve the dethy on our own. But, we're extremely sure who the traitor is and we want our fuckin masonry now.

The dethy is Tammy, Syryana, Jake, Tayl0r and myself.

I crumbed the dethy in my second post.

We want to elim Tayl0r.

Will you help?

Interesting. You're dead set on it being Taylor here as opposed to Jake?

I agree that Taylor looks scum, but Jake looks way more scum in my eyes.

[DiamondSentinel]

Ok Listen up!

This game has a dethy in it: A neighborhood with 4 town cops of unknown sanity, one each of {naive, paranoid, insane, and sane} And a scum traitor rolecop.

We were going to see how today plays out and try to solve the dethy on our own. But, we're extremely sure who the traitor is and we want our fuckin masonry now.

The dethy is Tammy, Syryana, Jake, Tayl0r and myself.

I crumbed the dethy in my second post.

We want to elim Tayl0r.

Will you help?

Interesting. You're dead set on it being Taylor here as opposed to Jake?

I agree that Taylor looks scum, but Jake looks way more scum in my eyes.

All those games Syr linked? I read them. And I also have the benefit to Jake's behavior in the neighbhorhood when we were scumreading him. His reaction to that pressure didn't feel scummy. I think the pressure he was feeling in the PT was greater than the pressure he's experienced in the game thread. He did feel kind of defeatist in some ways. Reading those games gave me a context for why he could feel defeatist here.

This doesn't scream defeatist though. This screams "I want to act as an agent of chaos so that even if I get eliminated, our stance isn't crippled."

[DiamondSentinel]

Ok Listen up!

This game has a dethy in it: A neighborhood with 4 town cops of unknown sanity, one each of {naive, paranoid, insane, and sane} And a scum traitor rolecop.

We were going to see how today plays out and try to solve the dethy on our own. But, we're extremely sure who the traitor is and we want our fuckin masonry now.

The dethy is Tammy, Syryana, Jake, Tayl0r and myself.

I crumbed the dethy in my second post.

We want to elim Tayl0r.

Will you help?

Interesting. You're dead set on it being Taylor here as opposed to Jake?

I agree that Taylor looks scum, but Jake looks way more scum in my eyes.

All those games Syr linked? I read them. And I also have the benefit to Jake's behavior in the neighbhorhood when we were scumreading him. His reaction to that pressure didn't feel scummy. I think the pressure he was feeling in the PT was greater than the pressure he's experienced in the game thread. He did feel kind of defeatist in some ways. Reading those games gave me a context for why he could feel defeatist here.

This doesn't scream defeatist though. This screams "I want to act as an agent of chaos so that even if I get eliminated, our stance isn't crippled."

What is "this"?

gestures broadly

[DiamondSentinel]

Are we allowed to call that a tell? Still, hot damn. If that ain't throwing...
VOTE: Taylor

[DiamondSentinel]

VOTE: Nahdia

I'm not liking the little bit I've seen today, and I

really

don't like the hard lurk yesterday. I need something to reassure me about this slot, and I'm not getting it.

[DiamondSentinel]

I really don't like the hard lurk yesterday.

you... really don't like Nahdia being busy with RL?

Or what?

My opinion on out-of-game stuff is whatever because people can lie or exaggerate. I will always treat all lurking as the same.

But it's not just the lurking, it's also that the content today is not good.

[DiamondSentinel]

Oh, that's a person in the game. I also don't like that tiny ISO. I might pressure them later. But right now I'm pressuring Nahdia.

PEdit: Again, I'm not entirely saying that Nahdia's lying. What I am saying is that I suspect it's a bit exaggerated and they're being deliberately evasive/prodgy to duck under D1 suspicion which is.... hard to deal with for a lot of players.

[DiamondSentinel]

Nahdia doesn't seem like the type of person to intentionally do traditionally scummy stuff to get townread as scum.

Certainly not.

I'm not sure if you really believed in Tammy being self conscious, but now I see my man Diamond also making similar accusations so idk

you think I... didn't believe it?

I latched onto the initial post I pointed out (the one which replied was just a joke) because that's 100% out of my own scum playbook. The kind of post I basically would never make as town but am pretty sure I have in fact made as scum. That doesn't mean it's the same for Tammy, but in my own self-reflection I find I make that kind of post because when I'm worried about how to make a town post, the obvious (too-obvious, therefore has to be presented as a joke) solution is to literally copy the post of a town player. So I started looking for more evidence of that kind of self-consciousness and found the things I pointed out from there.

These 2 quotes read horribly. Talking about ones town game (or how to make a "town" post) is in my experience essentially universally a scum trait. It's really the strongest tell I can see.

there's a reasonable chance at least one of the 2012 circlejerk is scum and im hoping they just sort themselves out so i dont have to

Half-heartedly calling shade on a group without hitting on it at all later. Really hate this.

feels a little big brain to me. i can see the logic as to why maybe town shouldn't, but i dont agree it means town

wouldn't

do it.

not to be rude i don't need you backing me up in this argument and i dunno why it needs your comment over anything else

not to be rude but i don't need your permission to respond to posts in this thread

This entire back and forth with peta looks awful for both, but 100000% worse on Nahdia than peta. I'm not unconvinced it's scum theater.

i'll call pooky town too even though that's one more townread than i need.

more words, man!

feels legit

his EoD looks bad to me.

VOTE: pookythemagicalbear

i thought the opposite but i'm willing to hear you out

he defends taylor, then wont elaborate, then just questions her without any followup, and never actually votes.

Potentially misrepping how traitors work, normally?

Traitors, as defined by the wiki, are mafia who know who the other mafia are, but are unknown to the mafia. My read on Pooky notwithstanding, I

really

don't like this misrep.

[DiamondSentinel]

if anything scum not being sure who their traitor is might make them even more prone to wanting to stay on the sidelines of that whole thing.

That's a faulty conclusion. Scum has to take hard pushes on

some

wagon or else they have no agency in the day phase.

[DiamondSentinel]

Gonna step away for now and let the confirmed town alter ego do her thing. Meta-date about Diamond and Gamma tonight/tomorrow?

What's this about meta?

[DiamondSentinel]

I cannot describe the sense of justice I felt when Taylor flipped red

VOTE: something smart
Anyways...let's go here

Well....
'splain it

[DiamondSentinel]

I cannot describe the sense of justice I felt when Taylor flipped red

VOTE: something smart
Anyways...let's go here

Well....
'splain it

I talked about it yesterday but basically SS' disengagement feels scum-motivated

Hmm. Can I get a bit more info here?

[DiamondSentinel]

Hmm. Indeed, I don't care for those posts. I look at it in more depth in a bit, and I might be inclined to sheep you there.

[DiamondSentinel]

DS, welcome back!

...A LOT of this is super old but hey, out of retirement and back into the frying pan!

Town:

Spoiler:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 1#p9849387
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=68191
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=69708
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67884
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=68775
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65515

Scum:

Spoiler:

(*) https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 1#p9864281
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=73659
(As Hydra Space Coyboy, weird-ass setup) https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67961
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65649

*Game was abandoned by mod but D1 scumplay was had

Shockingly, my scum games have been very poor. I've very few good experiences with it.

[DiamondSentinel]

@nahdia it’s a nuanced topic. I should have used my words more carefully.

@SD: what about you? What do you think of nahdia? What was your early approach to the game. Were you trying to pressure them or was it a serious let’s get rid of the lurker vote?

Assuming you mean me, you're definitely off the mark. It's not a "let's off the lurker", but rather "this slot has had multiple poor showings. Perpetual lurking, terrible content, constant logical missteps, misrepresenting arguments."

Lurking itself is not a scum tell, and I don't policy lynch for lurking alone. It's in addition to everything else from the slot.

[DiamondSentinel]

constant logical missteps, misrepresenting arguments

gonna need some citations for these

I quoted the biggest one a bit above in my iso. You can take a look there.

Lurking itself is not a scum tell

Does this mean that people lurking are not more likely to be scum, or that lurking is not enough to make someone definitely scum?

The latter, mainly. Scum are more likely to lurk than town, but simultaneously, there are a lot more town than scum, and so you can’t say “X is lurking so they’re scum”

[DiamondSentinel]

Considering those posts are
1. Part of a longer argument, and are what that argument hinges on, and
2. Part of a very small history of content

Yes, they are a relatively consistent trend. If I got my pants in a wad because fferylt said something contradictory in 2 posts and called that a consistent trend, yeah, I’d be out of line. But Nahdia’s lacking fairly severely in content.

[DiamondSentinel]

VOTE: Nahdia

I'm not liking the little bit I've seen today, and I

really

don't like the hard lurk yesterday. I need something to reassure me about this slot, and I'm not getting it.

But it didn't bother you yesterday?

Yesterday I was dead set on Jake because I swore he was the scum in the dethy.

Hmm. Indeed, I don't care for those posts. I look at it in more depth in a bit, and I might be inclined to sheep you there.

What don't you like about those posts?

I’ll get back to this later. Right now I’m doing some early morning catch-up on my phone.

[DiamondSentinel]

Here are the posts I was referring to when I said I don't like them.

Something_Smart is feeling a lot more absent than usual.

Am I though

I think this is within normal range for how absent I am.

I will always hate self-meta posting. I also dislike that sort of coy dodging of the question for the first post.

Do you have any reads yet?

no

there is way too much discussion that is orthogonal to anything I want to talk about.

Do you thread avoid as scum?

Sometimes.

Dodging questions (although admittedly the last part isn't a huge deal to me. Dodging questions about meta aren't AI)

What would you like to talk about?

I mean, if I knew, I'd be talking about it :/

The meta discussions are alienating. People seem to be by and large going with the flow and not really doing anything that stands out. And like I'm sure there IS readable content in there but I don't have the skill nor the patience to extract it.

Not a big deal, but I'm just going down Cakez's list here.

"I'm town and don't want to effort"

FTFY

I hate this. Snarky and unhelpful posts are a sign of scum in a lot of situations I've found.

Specifically, I don't want to effort when I know it won't accomplish anything worthwhile.

This. Just... no. Absolutely not. Even if what's going on around you is complete bunk and not remotely helpful, you can still contribute. This is a sign of a scum that is looking for any excuse they have to avoid the game.

How can you assume this

Because when I force reads they come out hot garbage. Speaking from experience.

See above. Even if your reads are trash, you make them so that you have

some

footing. (and also so that you can eventually get better at the game). If you're not going to do anything yourself, why would you bother playing?

But this is someone who's played as long as I have, so I doubt the sincerity of this decently.

Are you thinking to kinda sit out day 1?

Ideally no. I just need to find something to engage with.

If there's anything you want to hear my opinion on, I'll definitely try to see what I can come up with (though I can't guarantee it won't be "that's NAI").

This was posted 1500 posts in. There was more than enough to engage with.

[DiamondSentinel]

Oh I think I misread your wall quote of DS to be rebuking me on my DS vote and not rebuking DS on the S_S vote

If you note, I didn’t vote S_S. I was very particular about it. I don’t like their posting from the ones Cakez sent, but it’s not strong enough to warrant a major push. I’m still on the Nahdia train

[DiamondSentinel]

Yesterday I was dead set on Jake because I swore he was the scum in the dethy.

How could you possibly know about the Dethy?

Because they fucking said as much.

Are you that fucking dense that you cannot fucking read what other people are fucking saying?

I get it. You don't want to actually do any work and you're just trying to deathtunnel me because who fucking knows, but at least put in some fucking effort about what you're tunneling on.

[DiamondSentinel]

Congrats. You can push someone and then get even

more

reasons for pushing someone.

[DiamondSentinel]

my ordered to-read list rn is:

1. DS
   
2. Bulge
   
3. Cakez
   
4. Bell
   
5. Gamma
   
6. peta
   
7. midwaybear

here's a synopsis of DS's ISO:

Spoiler: this is long i boil it down below

• Unaware of mech info given from mod. Null.
  
• Votes Jake for having a lot of empty posts (i think)?
  
• Objects to pooky's RPing and implies it's scum motivated in 256
  
• Scumreads
  Taylor
  for buddying
  
• Claims he has some ability to read me... I mean, we played together plenty back in the day, but this feels a bit presumptuous?
  DS, can you elaborate a bit on you feeling like you have good insight into my alignment in general? How do you approach reading me in particular?
  
  
• Bemoans lots of fluffy content/rvs and not being able to get solid reads.
  
• Outs a bunch of reads in 309. a trend im noticing is DS does a lot of bemoaning people who aren't making juicy content so he cant read them. he did it with jake and pooky, he does it here with syryana.
  
• doubling down on the townread of fferyllt despite the meta being wrong is interesting. the reason given is very surface-level. not that that always means fake, just easy if it is fake.
  
• more reads in 720. "highposting" from midway pings his radar (notable, midway was nulltown 14 hours earlier in 309). saying they dont like bell and like the wagon even less feels a little bit both-sidesy. like options are being left open. apparently wary of peta as well.
  
• one thing i'll say in DS' favor at this point is that he's very forthcoming with his thoughts on the game.
  
• asking Something_Smart to post more fits in with that trend i noticed
  
• lists their preferred votes as Jake and then peta, cabd, and maybe Syr. talks about wanting to pressure people more than actually execute them. adds tammy to the pile of people worthy of execution. worth noting Syr was nulltown earlier, but now something bothers him.
  
• in 928 they ONCE AGAIN bemoan there not being enough content in certain slots (Syr and Tammy)
  
• blah blah blah okay

okay so main takeaways:
for someone who spends so much time bemoaning the lack of readable content various slots are giving, i think it's actually a point in his favor that DS is frequently giving his own thoughts on the game and its players.
that said, so many of his reads are marred with "but im not sure because people aren't giving enough content to read". and in fact, that often seems to be the

basis

of some of his reads. this is underlined by him saying Jake is the only read he's certain of.
there's a part of me that feels like his misremembering fferyllt and using meta on her that didnt exist is... something.

i'd really like DS to answer this question which is a response to post 275.

DS, can you elaborate a bit on you feeling like you have good insight into my alignment? How do you approach reading me in particular?

Ultimately my reads are perpetually feels based. I think that the "logic" that so often permeates this site is a facade to hide behind and try to make this game seem like it's any more than just a dartboard until someone gets flustered.

As such, I just look at people until I get a gut read on them and then I push them. You are one such person I can get a decent gut read for and feel confident about.

[DiamondSentinel]

Do you want to start with where you four (hi syr ghost) settled, and then the two mini masonry groups can chime in, then?

right now one of my strong townreads is voting the other so I'm a little out of sorts.

We think Bell is strange. The strangeness has calmed down a little but he doesn't feel very present/engaged. I don't see how he moves from here into bet the farm town.

We agree that DS's scumhunting has been super shallow and at times very shaped by players asking his opinions about other players. As a town playstyle it looks ineffective.

I'm liking Nahdia's recent content a little better.

I'm still pondering Tayl0r's play and how it was considered by other players. The 2012 cohort schtick was essentially flagging the three players in the dethy who were making waves/should be elimed quickly imo.

Cakez and petapan pushed back on the characterization that we were impossible to read/interact with. Not sure that makes sense as scum interacting with their potential traitor.

@DS as town have you been especially accurate as a player in terms of hunting? I mostly iso meta’d you so I don’ t know how well you did in terms of accuracy.

I am no more accurate at town than most players were at the time, which is to say, dubiously so. Some people my reads are guaranteed wrong so I would assume the opposite of my initial position (none of them are in this game). Others tend to vary. I rarely lock or even strong!town scum, but I semi-often ignore them or sideline the conversation about them.

[DiamondSentinel]

Why do you sound so confident then? If it was for pressure I could understand. But you seem like you think you have Nahdia pegged when I'm not nearly so certain.

If you aren't confident and headstrong, then what use is it to even say anything?

[DiamondSentinel]

@Diamond

- Give me a read on bulge with some explanation as to why you have that read thanks

I don't have a read on them. I barely even remember them in this game.

[DiamondSentinel]

Why would he super bus Taylor as scum?

Why do you assume that he knew taylor was scum? That's not how traitors work normally.

[DiamondSentinel]

was really hoping DS would give a better answer on my question about his meta on me. as it stands it was basically a dodge.

Nahdia isn't here rn, be my scheherazade~

hello hello.
bulge's content this game:

Spoiler:

• votes DS for his anger at RVS being a bit performative. i did take note of that as well!
  
• i kinda liked 1122 for some reason. it's bold.
  
• starts asking lots of mech questions to clarify the dethy traitor thing. personally i find mechspeccing to be where a scum thrives, but i cant deny the town perspective here. he's asking questions that scum would obviously already know the answer to.
  
• his early d2 is pretty defensive, though not necessarily in a bad way? it feels strange to me that bulge would be surprised to be in PoEs in a way that i almost wanna say is towny.
  
• gets much more into sorting territory by 2679. i like this post and the posts that follow. the continual followup on questions he's asked makes the sorting look genuine.
  
• i feel 2806 deep in my soul

bulge feels towny to me.

I don't have solid answers on anything. I just have gutreads that I go based off of and then try to scrap together weak justification to convince others that it isn't just a gutread.

[DiamondSentinel]

I don't have solid answers on anything. I just have gutreads that I go based off of and then try to scrap together weak justification to convince others that it isn't just a gutread.

but you specifically called me out as someone you can read well!!!!! why!? explain yourself!

Because my gut reads are pretty accurate, especially against you. See: Soccer Spirits. (And before you point it out, yes, I was scum, but it was multiball)

[DiamondSentinel]

PEdit: Absolutely. Just because you disagree with someone's reads does not mean that they are not legit. Legitimate reads are reads that are working towards solving the game, not sowing discord. There are many people I've had disagreeing reads with historically that I also did not for a second doubt were town, and they truly meant those reads (and there are a fair few people who's said the same thing)

Wait, you're getting me confused. What's the differences between

Merit

,

Normalize

, and

Legit

?

Functionally? Very little.
To normalize a set of reads (or a stance) would just be to grant that it is legitimate and has merit.
Merit is that it's not complete bullshit and is worth discussing.
Legitimacy is that it is meant to solve the game and not sow dissent.

was really hoping DS would give a better answer on my question about his meta on me. as it stands it was basically a dodge.

Nahdia isn't here rn, be my scheherazade~

hello hello.
bulge's content this game:

Spoiler:

• votes DS for his anger at RVS being a bit performative. i did take note of that as well!
  
• i kinda liked 1122 for some reason. it's bold.
  
• starts asking lots of mech questions to clarify the dethy traitor thing. personally i find mechspeccing to be where a scum thrives, but i cant deny the town perspective here. he's asking questions that scum would obviously already know the answer to.
  
• his early d2 is pretty defensive, though not necessarily in a bad way? it feels strange to me that bulge would be surprised to be in PoEs in a way that i almost wanna say is towny.
  
• gets much more into sorting territory by 2679. i like this post and the posts that follow. the continual followup on questions he's asked makes the sorting look genuine.
  
• i feel 2806 deep in my soul

bulge feels towny to me.

I don't have solid answers on anything. I just have gutreads that I go based off of and then try to scrap together weak justification to convince others that it isn't just a gutread.

It feels like there's a disconnect between these two posts. The first one suggests a structure and method. The second one suggests the opposite. When I read the first one, I made a mental note that I wanted to see if your iso suggests a fair amount of method in your playstyle.

If you think I have methodology, then my acting has been a resounding success.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, as a side note, it means that you're proving my first point (the two aren't contradictory by any means). Makes me chuckle there.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, as a side note, it means that you're proving my first point (the two aren't contradictory by any means). Makes me chuckle there.

Your first point being?

My point in the first one.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, as a side note, it means that you're proving my first point (the two aren't contradictory by any means). Makes me chuckle there.

Your first point being?

My point in the first one.

Wordz it please.

There's a difference between an actual read and what people accept as genuine.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, as a side note, it means that you're proving my first point (the two aren't contradictory by any means). Makes me chuckle there.

Your first point being?

My point in the first one.

Wordz it please.

There's a difference between an actual read and what people accept as genuine.

How did I prove that point?

Your perception that what I have is remotely worth considering. Right now my reads are sporadic and I'm really just scrounge together "evidence" to convince y'all of my gut reads, and yet you think that I have a methodology with them, apparently.

If you think I have methodology, then my acting has been a resounding success.

How do you define methodology such that you do not have one

/shrug

A rhyme or reason, a rhythm, some consistency, external logic that you can point to when questioned? A gut read is just by definition one without a methodology, so as all of mine are gut reads, I do not have a methodology.

@Diamond

- Give me a read on bulge with some explanation as to why you have that read thanks

I don't have a read on them. I barely even remember them in this game.

what do you mean you don’t have a read on them go get one

I will when I have time (or feel motivated to do so). Right now I don't really feel like digging through their ISO so I just sit them into the null pile until it becomes imperative that I deal with them.

I don't need to have reads on everyone at once. That's stifling and takes away attention from the ones that I really care to deal with.

[DiamondSentinel]

and actually, while you were mafia in that game, you were red mafia. meaning you didn't know for sure it was multiball, though you did speculate there was 3p in the scumthread.

WAIT HOLD ON. YOU SCUMREAD ME THAT GAME.

your read on me THAT game was "nahdia is a noob that is posting a lot but it's all filler so i cant read them". and then you decided i was scum!

i was town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes.... It was part of my job description to mislead you. You're upset that a scum tried to paint you as scum in the thread?

Also, @Alisae, yeah. That's pretty much the case. I was a lot more active yesterday because I've got stuff I'm doing RN, so I haven't read up on some of the people posting a lot now unless they directly address me. This includes what's-their-face.

I... haven't been reading the thread as diligently as I should be recently, mostly just skimming for stuff I need to directly deal with. As I said, I'm busy.

[DiamondSentinel]

your evidence for being able to gutread me well is a game where you never read me correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One where I never read you correctly

in the thread

[DiamondSentinel]

im pretty good at townreading people in games where I'm scum too fyi

Sure sure, but this was a multiball game. Pretty obviously so since our scumteam was like 4 out of 24(?).

[DiamondSentinel]

@Diamond

- what reads do you even have?

Big Dethy Room in the Sky - Locktown. Not allowed to touch those (as much as I'd love to, pertaining to Jake. Speaking of which, where's Jake? I just realized I've not been filled with seething annoyance for too long)
Bell - Null!Scum. Had a couple things here and there that I do not care much for.
Cabd - Scum. My gut has only gotten worse since the whole fiasco on day 1. Although there was something about a mason above? With a dethy, I don't believe that the set-up would have both a dethy and masons. Still, can someone explain later?
midwaybear - Null!town. I'm apprehensive about how readily he's agreeing with me, but I can't point to anything more worrisome.
Cakez - Null. Not a null in a "I can't read him", but a null in "it can go either way". Some stuff I really like, but his interactions with the dethy and a couple others. have been.... interesting.
S_S - Surprisingly null!town. one of my stronger towns, but I'm not putting anyone in actual town because that tier is reserved for haha funny dethy-land.
Alisae - Null. Don't like your fixation on me, but I can't scumread you for that. You're doing your job. Some stuff has rubbed me the wrong way, but hey, that applies to most.
peta - null (slight town leanings, but not null!town). Constant dry humor doesn't off-put me here, so that's good, but other than that, I've seen some things that make me scratch my head. Specifically that their iso is almost entirely questions with a couple of observations. Not much that they've personally postulated. Nothing worrisome, but I keep them on my mind.
Pooky - /shrug. Don't remember them posting aside from snarking and the D1 cringeRP.
Bulge - /shrug. This is what sparked this.
Gamma - I... wish I had more. I haven't gained much on them, but this is really my last

true

gut read. Something doesn't sit right with me about them. I doubt that trying to come up with justification from the thread would work because my unconscious mind is not great.
Nahdia - Still think they're scum.

[DiamondSentinel]

Cabd and SS are also masons

Yeah that was what I was talking about.

I don't believe that. I do not believe for a second that there is one pair of masons with the dethy, much less two.

I also don't believe that you guys are all four scum because that's stupid. What I

do

believe is that this is a super "fun" inside joke (or this game is secretly bastard).

[DiamondSentinel]

Cabd and SS are also masons

Yeah that was what I was talking about.

I don't believe that. I do not believe for a second that there is one pair of masons with the dethy, much less two.

I also don't believe that you guys are all four scum because that's stupid. What I

do

believe is that this is a super "fun" inside joke (or this game is secretly bastard).

and you're stupid

oy. Be nice. I didn't call y'all stupid.

[DiamondSentinel]

No, I generally ignore setup spec beyond the realms of plausibility.

PEdit: I ignored the mason claims

because

I assumed it was a shitty joke that I just didn't understand, like the whole 2013 crew stuff at the start of the game.

PPEdit: Yeah, that sounds like bullshit. That's ridiculously unbalanced and would be almost a guaranteed town-win. No way it goes past review.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yes, thus why I do not believe that is the set-up.

[DiamondSentinel]

Nahdia, you know how mafia players pretend like they know whats going on in the game completely but they actually don't?

people like me!

@Diamond

- what reads do you even have?

Big Dethy Room in the Sky - Locktown. Not allowed to touch those (as much as I'd love to, pertaining to Jake. Speaking of which, where's Jake? I just realized I've not been filled with seething annoyance for too long)
Bell - Null!Scum. Had a couple things here and there that I do not care much for.
Cabd - Scum. My gut has only gotten worse since the whole fiasco on day 1. Although there was something about a mason above? With a dethy, I don't believe that the set-up would have both a dethy and masons. Still, can someone explain later?
midwaybear - Null!town. I'm apprehensive about how readily he's agreeing with me, but I can't point to anything more worrisome.
Cakez - Null. Not a null in a "I can't read him", but a null in "it can go either way". Some stuff I really like, but his interactions with the dethy and a couple others. have been.... interesting.
S_S - Surprisingly null!town. one of my stronger towns, but I'm not putting anyone in actual town because that tier is reserved for haha funny dethy-land.
Alisae - Null. Don't like your fixation on me, but I can't scumread you for that. You're doing your job. Some stuff has rubbed me the wrong way, but hey, that applies to most.
peta - null (slight town leanings, but not null!town). Constant dry humor doesn't off-put me here, so that's good, but other than that, I've seen some things that make me scratch my head. Specifically that their iso is almost entirely questions with a couple of observations. Not much that they've personally postulated. Nothing worrisome, but I keep them on my mind.
Pooky - /shrug. Don't remember them posting aside from snarking and the D1 cringeRP.
Bulge - /shrug. This is what sparked this.
Gamma - I... wish I had more. I haven't gained much on them, but this is really my last

true

gut read. Something doesn't sit right with me about them. I doubt that trying to come up with justification from the thread would work because my unconscious mind is not great.
Nahdia - Still think they're scum.

this may be one of the worst readslists I've ever seen. literally NULL ON EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR A SR ON CONFTOWN

Cabd and SS are also masons

Yeah that was what I was talking about.

I don't believe that. I do not believe for a second that there is one pair of masons with the dethy, much less two.

I also don't believe that you guys are all four scum because that's stupid. What I

do

believe is that this is a super "fun" inside joke (or this game is secretly bastard).

what??? your solution to this is either the world's dumbest mafia inside joke or FG (one of the most tenured and respected mods on MS) is breaking site rules????

I explained why I have a lot of null-reads on the town part, and then I have 2 strong scum-reads.

As for my solution to it, the FG breaking site rules was dumb, but I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke. There is no way in hell for Fakegod to allow 8 conf!town in his game. Literally no way.

[DiamondSentinel]

The thing is, he's aware of the mason claim but scumreads me despite it. Okay, I can buy that.

But if that's the case he needs to be scumreading S_S as well.

I don't

need

to do anything.

[DiamondSentinel]

I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke.

Why can't they just be lying? I do not think it is a joke at this point even if it may have been likely before.

Lying, joking. What difference is there at this point.

As for my solution to it, the FG breaking site rules was dumb, but I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke. There is no way in hell for Fakegod to allow 8 conf!town in his game. Literally no way.

We don't know what scum's power is so you can't judge how balanced it is

Fine. Let's get into set-up spec. FakeGod does not design set-ups around night actions. (See: Fakegod V. Antihero, mainly, but a couple others. The former is my main experience with him). For a game with 8 out of 17 players to be conf!town, scum would have to have

very

significant power and/or multiple nightkills. The former goes against FG's design philosophy, and do I doubt that he's switched it up now. Plus, the theme is pretty clearly leading towards investigative/low night abilities. As for the latter, the scum team got one kill last night. Sure, it might be an X-shot night-kill and they saved it or our "doctor pair" blocked it, but I doubt this doctor is a thing (although I do somewhat suspect we have a doctor. I'm just waiting for a real claim).

Anyways

, I doubt that we're dealing with that high of a power level in this game. It's not in FakeGod's nature to design that.

[DiamondSentinel]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

/shrug

I can't remember the last time I was in it in the first place. I think I've been in it twice, once on both sides and I think I lost both times.

PEdit: Unless I can get anyone to consider this situation, there's no use casing.

But that's not remotely the point, nor do I care to continue this conversation.

Again

, town fakeclaim all the time. It's not optimal play by

any

measure. It's not entirely alignment indicative.

[DiamondSentinel]

Who DS?

Who who?

[DiamondSentinel]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

/shrug

I can't remember the last time I was in it in the first place. I think I've been in it twice, once on both sides and I think I lost both times.

PEdit: Unless I can get anyone to consider this situation, there's no use casing.

But that's not remotely the point, nor do I care to continue this conversation.

Again

, town fakeclaim all the time. It's not optimal play by

any

measure. It's not entirely alignment indicative.

So you're positing that up to two town neighbors have decided for some arcane reason to go along with their neighbor claiming that they're a masonry, not a neighborhood?

Hmm. Actually, that's a much better situation than I'd considered. I just considered people were being shitty jokers. But it does make more sense. I'll buy it.

[DiamondSentinel]

So by your own logic, if the masonry folks are faking... then your solve is 5 scum...

Alisae, Pooky, Cabd, S_S, Taylor

You should be casing.

Except look at how many nulls he has
I actually feel like the fact he has so many nulls is a really important detail to consider here

/shrug

I'm naturally wishy-washy. I don't

do

strong reads. On a semi-related example, on my meyer's briggs that I just had to take, I didn't answer outside of "somewhat agree/disagree" the entire test except for 3 questions.

[DiamondSentinel]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

/shrug

I can't remember the last time I was in it in the first place. I think I've been in it twice, once on both sides and I think I lost both times.

PEdit: Unless I can get anyone to consider this situation, there's no use casing.

But that's not remotely the point, nor do I care to continue this conversation.

Again

, town fakeclaim all the time. It's not optimal play by

any

measure. It's not entirely alignment indicative.

So you're positing that up to two town neighbors have decided for some arcane reason to go along with their neighbor claiming that they're a masonry, not a neighborhood?

Hmm. Actually, that's a much better situation than I'd considered. I just considered people were being shitty jokers. But it does make more sense. I'll buy it.

My point is that this is a nonsensical view of the gamestate you're positing.

I see it very much the opposite. Amended to match your assertion, it makes a lot of sense now.

[DiamondSentinel]

@Tammy DS is trying to destroy the idea that cabd is conftown but doesn’t want to put himself in a position to 1v1 cabd rn as that’s probably a losing battle. Generally I see this kind of behavior on a less dramatic level where the scum just try to gaslight the conftown. This is a much bolder move that speaks of scum desperation.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'm trying to avoid a 1v1 against S_S because I don't believe

they're

scum.

[DiamondSentinel]

No, you’re trying to avoid a 1v1 with cabd because he was way more social capital than you in this game rn. Your push of cabd was an attempt to reduce that.

Dude, fuck off with that. You’re mad that people recognize me as elimbait and so you’re trying to dredge up old shit.

[DiamondSentinel]

Aight, fine. Let's do this ISO. This ISO physically hurt me, but I'm glad that I did this instead of continuing to ignore them because jesus christ this pissed me off.

2678 - I really wanted to start sooner in the ISO than this, but there's nothing worth looking at. It's a bunch of naked votes and prod dodging all day. Anyways, not only do they not address the issue (them only bothering to interact with people when they try to read them), but they tried to handwave off his lurking. Is that considered scummoning? Who cares, this is awful.
2679 - "read me, but only in the ways I want". Bleugh. Although actually, my problems are not with the first part. There's no analysis here, only questions and simple observations. It's a lot of "I just want to

look

like I'm being productive, but I don't

actually

want to add anything. This changes later, but whoo boy. We'll get there.
2694 - Oh hey. peta pointed this out before, and Bulge responded.... Yeah. Curious nothing came of that, but I'm to blame a lot for that. Between waffling around in my own ambivalence and then just not being motivated, I ignored this.
2698 - Using a passing shot to throw shade. I know that it might be hard to stomach, but not everyone cares about being on every readlist (or even how they're read). Some people make content about things aside from their own name. Anyways, this post reads eww. Surprisingly so for a post that's essentially a couple dozen words. (It appears this was

also

pointed out. Probably should have nipped this in the butt)
2703 - Trying to paint a question as defensive that is pretty clearly a genuine attempt at solving this game. Regardless, eww. (Also, nothing wrong with being "defensive". After all, your job in a debate is to defend your stance (among others))
2740 - Not for lack of trying, Bulge. Literally all you'd done up to this point is throwing shade at people in between bouts of lurking. Bleugh.
2745 - Now

this

is being defensive. "How dare you not have a read on us at this point in the game, aside from the fact that our first 30-odd posts were glorified prod dodging!" Coupled with your shade at people who scumread lurkers....
2750 page. This page is a lot of the same stuff. This is still equally telling, but I don't want to dredge through every post the same way when it's just saying the same stuff.

Spoiler: Let me address this post before we move on

@Diamond

- what reads do you even have?

I won't further taint the game thread by reposting the atrocity held in this quote, and because I'm not talking about the content of this post but the context.

how many times this game are you going to drop all the content and stances you keep bitching and whining about not having the second anyone calls your bluff?

I have gutreads, I try to scrounge up justification for them. Nothing I've done is internally inconsistent. Please, keep bagging on me for being el-bait. Or don't. That'd be nice. Reading this same song and dance is tiring.

Cabd and SS are also masons

Yeah that was what I was talking about.

I don't believe that. I do not believe for a second that there is one pair of masons with the dethy, much less two.

I also don't believe that you guys are all four scum because that's stupid. What I

do

believe is that this is a super "fun" inside joke (or this game is secretly bastard).

I... cannot see this any way other than that ds came into the game with a scumplan to whine and whine and whine about the meta cabal, and now that they're all conftown he doesn't have any viable trajectory set up elsewhere and decides to double down.

Not going to justify this with a response other than "not going to justify this with a response other than...."

Sure, it might be an X-shot night-kill and they saved it or our "doctor pair" blocked it, but I doubt this doctor is a thing (although I do somewhat suspect we have a doctor. I'm just waiting for a real claim).

?!??!!!!!??????????????????????

!!!???????????????????!!

???????????????????????????????????????????????

Oh hey. Back to the low effort shade-posting without actually adding anything! Yeet.

The thing is, he's aware of the mason claim but scumreads me despite it. Okay, I can buy that.

But if that's the case he needs to be scumreading S_S as well.

I don't

need

to do anything.

maaaaaaaaaaaaan
get this guy a margherita please

UNVOTE:

Aight I'm done.

Needless to say, this post

stinks

.
3262 - Because, and listen

very

carefully....

You are not the center of everyone's universe. People have other things they're more interested than typing VOTE: Bulge.

I, however,

will

be typing VOTE: Bulge.

I'm done. You guys can read through their posts from last night. And don't worry Cakez, I already justified this awful ISO with a response. You don't have to.

[DiamondSentinel]

One thing Bulge was right about though.

After reading that ISO, I

do

need a drink.

[DiamondSentinel]

I was trying to put words around the implications of DS's scumread of Cabd, to show him how absurd it sounded.

DS adopted the absurdities wholeheartedly, which was bizarre enough.

And here, you're scumreading him for buying into the implications, rather than sticking with the initial raw take.

Something's wrong here.

Hell yeah something's wrong, DS demonstrated he's not trying to argue in good faith, he's just interested in the points that best suit his agenda. I have solid evidence that what DS did is a scum move, that I gathered around the last time I used this tell, which was actually a couple years ago I believe.

How am I not arguing in good faith? It's pretty clear that something is very fucky around here. No set-up makes over half of their town mod-confirmed, and I really don't understand how nobody sees that.

[DiamondSentinel]

nobody cares what I'd say anyways

what gives you that impression? before you said you wouldn't be able to change

my

mind by responding, no mention of the onlookers.

are you seeing anyone else ask me to respond to your post?
the only person who even noticed was DS who said I was justified not responding lol

so you would engage if someone else asked?

DS also called all 4 masons scum so don't pull that card lmao

Are you

actually

illiterate? Or are you just stupid? I’ve tried to refrain from ad hom but this is the fiftieth time I’ve had to explain that no, that’s not what I’m saying.

[DiamondSentinel]

Bell's response definitely sounds like the scummier out of the two when you put it that way...

tyhjtygjhddfhjyjhfd
DS isn't looking at the claims skeptically, he's trying to attack through them
If he was skeptical about the claims he would have naturally happened across the thought the cabd-SS mason pair could be scum claiming together, instead he had to be spoon-fed that idea, at which point he realized it made a lot more sense than the drivel he was pushing and made it his own thought process with no regard for his old beliefs.

I literally never said that they were scum claiming together because that's unoptimal scum play. As soon as one goes down, the other soon follows. It's not a good long-term strat remotely.

Of course, you'd have to actually use more than a single brain cell to realize that, so I guess I can't be too hard on that.

[DiamondSentinel]

I mean lying town have made those types of fake claims before; it's not a totally unbelievable thing. One of the very many reasons I took a break from mafia was because of just how many lying town there were some time back.

Thank you. Fucking finally someone else expresses the underlying assertion here.

Town lying is neither uncommon nor entirely unoptimal. It is a strategy that some can make work and some can not make work.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yeah I've been the same sorta way. I'm tired of trying to bridge this gap between "there's no way Cabd isn't scum", "this set-up makes no sense with 4 masons and 4 pseudo-masons", and "we have 4 mason claims and 4 pseudo-mason claims".

And then if that's indeed the case, the rest of us are just white noise. You could almost literally solve the game and auto-win with just the 8 conf!town. (Since it's 8 conf!town versus 9 uncertains)

[DiamondSentinel]

Welcome to 2020. If you ain't miserable, you ain't trying.

Anyways I'm back for a bit (checking in before bed).

Hi Bulge, I guess. (about that post where you talked to me, or something)

As for the wagon, I prefer Nahdia over Gamma, although I still prefer Bulge's wagon (I don't care much for that grovelling act earlier). I suppose this is what's sticking though. VOTE: Nahdia

[DiamondSentinel]

I said hi, bulge. I'm a busy man these days.

[DiamondSentinel]

That's a lot of deaths.

Also, for the record, I would like to point out that so far, this game has not gone against FG's mod meta. He loves to run suicide bombers of varying alignments.

Anyways, with Gamma town and Bell scum, that really doesn't look good for peta. VOTE: Petapan

[DiamondSentinel]

Peta's early low effort "pressure" (if you can even call it that) and then immediately hopping off at the weakest rational (post 834, by the way) was awful. Peta also only really did anything in response to others pressuring Bell, so it screams like they're looking for town-cred.

Meanwhile based on reading together, any of my reasonable combinations that didn't have Gamma!scum had peta!scum (I was looking at gamma/nahdia/bell and gamma/midway/bell, but now I'm looking at peta/S_S and peta/nahdia).

At least for now, I'll let midway be town. But I've got to go back and iso them a bit closer.

[DiamondSentinel]

lol DS day 1 was like "I don't like Bell, but his wagon stinks". Hmmm

I still stand by what I said. That Bell wagon reads as a super hard bus, and I think we'd do well to start scumhunting there.

[DiamondSentinel]

5 people total, but yes.
Which actually brings me to why I was isoing you.

You starting the wagon on bell looks awful. I don't like that one bit, but the rational wasn't that bad. Cabd and fferylt following are fine since they're town. And then that leaves peta jumping on, and Nahdia hopping on for a bit.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, disregard that I cannot read, Tammy. I just woke up.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yes, the extent of it was Midway, Cabd, Fferylt, Nahdia, and Peta, although Nahdia quickly hopped off for fferylt.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yes.

Have we gotten mod confirmation that there are 3 scum+traitor? Because with the amount of town PRs (plus the suicide bomber as a mafia, although they might be the weakest), we might be dealing with 4 mafia+traitor. Which puts us at 6/3 right now, making tomorrow LyLo.

Food for thought.

[DiamondSentinel]

(I'm specifically looking at the remaining 2 in the dethy, since you guys had info about the tot)

[DiamondSentinel]

I'm officially not happy with the Bell wagon

I'm not happy with a lot of stuff right now.
Not a fan of midway's "highpost" strategy, as that pings my radar, but that goes for a lot of folks here.
I don't like Bell, but I like his wagon even less.
Compared to what I saw when peta was assassin (I've read through FGO a bit out of curiosity), I'm not really a fan of what he's doing here either.
I'm not a huge fan how there are no real in-betweens the 2 extremes of "spamming posts, half of which don't pertain to the game" and "complete ghosting".

oh right

fuck you

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

oh whaaa. You don't like that someone has called you out multiple times and has identified your D1 bus strategy.

[DiamondSentinel]

(That was supposed to be like the sound of a baby crying. Perhaps not the best spelling of that sound)

[DiamondSentinel]

balance wise you can't do 4 scum + traitor with a chance for multi-kill scum nights with 2 sets of lovers in a 17p. That's just wild.

You literally just posited the same thing yourself.

[DiamondSentinel]

I was more wondering for the possibility of a second traitor. It doesn’t feel like we’re dealing with 4 full scum though.

But again I suck at balance so.

I think we used suicide bombers at westeros (rip) a couple times, but they were always day roles I think. Can’t remember how they were balanced around though.

And perhaps that, but that doesn't change my consideration. Assuming normal traitors, they count for endgame numbers for scum.

My point with the above thing was that perhaps we should start treating this

as

the end game.

[DiamondSentinel]

/shrug

There are 4 or 5 day large games out there.

[DiamondSentinel]

You're suggesting this would be a Day 3 large game and that's just insane

No, I suggested a 4 day game.

[DiamondSentinel]

Only if you want to!

I’m probably gonna fall asleep before I get too far rereading, but I remember why I liked midway bear early day one.

369. Lol, and this is midways response to bells omgus vote. Feels not partnery?

Hmm, tell me more. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[DiamondSentinel]

Only if you want to!

I’m probably gonna fall asleep before I get too far rereading, but I remember why I liked midway bear early day one.

369. Lol, and this is midways response to bells omgus vote. Feels not partnery?

Hmm, tell me more. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Do you disagree?

Not particularly, but it's one quote. I was asking if there was more to suggest a connection.

This bell wagon really pings me as similar to perpetual mylo's string.

I don't know this reference, can you please enlighten me

More directed at fferylt. But anyways, outa the gate 3 of my scum buddies started immediately hard-bussing me, and I didn't take the fake pressure well, so it really hamstrung us and pretty much lost us the game. Bell is not looking hot at all right now, but that wagon stinks.

Also, I don't have a decent alternative.

You’re referring to the bell wagon here. Why did you compare it to your game you were bussed in?

Because it felt very much like that game. A bus on a very unwilling participant who was not properly prepared for it and ended up worse off for it.

Can we get some coverage on Jake? I still feel pretty good about my vote on him. Others I'd be interested in voting include peta, cabd, and maybe Syr.

Bell's response really doesn't make me feel any better about them, but I'm not really sure what else we'd get out of it.

i have seen it said offsite that listing names in the "w, x, y, or maybe z" is scummy, though. don't have enough experience to go "yeah this is scum" but i'm raising an eyebrow at the format here (does remind me of a Titus-Saber post though)

(could care less that i'm one of the names here and would probably like him on the merit of

who

he's naming, just the

way

he's doing it pings)

quoting this post because this is where I'll pick back up when I come back to reading.

This point in the game might be kind of important though. Cabd's been pushing bell at this point and the wagon has started to rise some. DS has made the post about the bell wagon that peta pointed out last night, and DS pops in to remind us all that bell looks bad but he learned nothing, and cabd, syr, peta and me need some pressure. The way he was trying to push Cabd as looking horrible for asking me to respond to his reads was icky then is icky now. Anyway trying to discredit Cabd while Cabd is pushing scum is a tactic.

(Also wanted to quote this post because I chuckled at the formatting thing. I know I've made several posts in this format as town. Wanted to mention that at the time, but it wasn't something I wanted to pick at heh.)

I have some other thoughts building up from my reread but I'm running late now and have to go. I'm hoping to be mostly done with my reread today.

I literally started pushing Cabd from the very beginning. He was my number 1 scumread literally until he flipped. Saying that because I scumread Cabd from the start of day 1, I was defending or buddying with Bell is just laughable.

[DiamondSentinel]

DS - Yes, you had a null scum read on Cabd by post 309 and Cabd didn't vote bell until 340, so technically yes you announced a scum read on Cabd before the wagon started, but that's not my point. It's about your behavior during the wagon. It doesn't matter that you had a scumread stated, it matters that when scum was getting wagon, while apparently thinking he looked like scum getting bussed and doing poorly for it, thought pressure should be applied anywhere else. It matters that when you answered the question about Cabd it felt like posturing and using odd scumtells (I'm not sure how much this counts against you; I thought you sounded a little bit like this tonally when I looked back at cyberpunk.)

It also matter that when we outed the dethy, you were also resistant to taylor at first.

Does this make you for sure scum, no. I've derailed my fair share of wagons on scum, but it's not a point in your favor either.

And uh you thought that bell looked like scum being bussed but you didn't want anything to do with it? And I'll just go ahead and presume you were thinking cabd was bussing him, but you didn't mention that at the time.

My 2 big ones were Cabd and Peta. Since then it's moved more toward Nahdia, as I had townread midway until pretty recently.

[DiamondSentinel]

can someone present an argument for a five scum game here? Because I saw that come up and it sounds absurd to me

My argument was that 4 scum and traitor didn't sound entirely out of the realm of plausibility.

We have a dethy, 2 lover/mason pairs, a vigilante, and a doctor. Scum has only flipped a traitor and a suicide bomber. Either these last 2 scum are ridiculous PRs, there are still

3

scum alive, or this is super town-sided.

I don't

think

that there are still 3 scum left, but it's something I'm very seriously considered, which is why I'm cautious about where to place my vote today.

[DiamondSentinel]

And if I weren't being cautious, it'd be on you.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yes. 5 deaths in 1 night will do that.

[DiamondSentinel]

One that didn't anticipate 4 town deaths in 1 night.

[DiamondSentinel]

"As I had townread midway until pretty recently"

That was a statement of a previous state of conditions.

Please do try to read.

[DiamondSentinel]

That's why I always allow a "Bah" post in my games. Let you tell folks what you

truly

think of them.

[DiamondSentinel]

???

I've been trying to solve the game. I've given my reads multiple times as well as who I'd be down to elim. I've interacted with folks, entertained their questions, etc. What else do you want, me to start dayvigging everyone I remotely scumread?

[DiamondSentinel]

What good does dayvigging do
seems like you are overreacting.

It's called hyperbole.

[DiamondSentinel]

DS who do you think are the scum?

My pool is midway, peta, and nahdia, in that order.

That being said, I'm not sure how I feel about midway and peta together. It's a possibility. Midway has really really been trying to be scumread today, so that's caused a pretty big 180 in my read of him. Peta is def trying to levy a low hanging fruit wagon on me. Nahdia is still making me feel uneasy and have a pretty big gutread about it.

As for Cakez, I really don't see him as super scummy. He

could

still be scum as I've been historically terrible at reading him (like Titus), but I've got a town read on him.

[DiamondSentinel]

Earlier you said you could read Titus within 20 posts and that read was rarely wrong

Because I take whatever read I make and just accept the opposite.

I can count on my read being 100% wrong.

[DiamondSentinel]

Before I deal with why I read him like that, I think he can still be scum despite that because I'm terrible at the game. Anyone I townread can be scum and anyone I scumread can very easily be town. And sure, that's true for everyone, but I have no illusions about how absolutely awful I am at this game.

[DiamondSentinel]

Hi, I haven't claimed anything yet.

I'm a 1-shot BP Miller. Dunno how that works with the dethy, don't really care, thus why I hadn't claimed anything.

[DiamondSentinel]

Chief Financial Officer Markus Grundleback, if that means anything.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yeah cool. So because we've lost at this point, you guys were exactly right.

This setup is entirely town-sided to the point of being not remotely fun. As soon as that dethy claim happened, the game was over for us.

[DiamondSentinel]

Scum has literally no way to actually deal with the existence of all these masons.

[DiamondSentinel]

Even then, I've seen it tried before off-site and having a dethy in the middle of a regular game just doesn't work as far as design goes. It's just too strong. They don't care about their cop results, it's all about being conf!town that scum isn't allowed to touch until the scum in the dethy dies.

[DiamondSentinel]

Ah shit you got me. I'm a giant troll. I'm actually a vengeful vengeful vengeful vengeful vengeful townie. I kill the last 5 people to vote for me. ggez

[DiamondSentinel]

Even then, I've seen it tried before off-site and having a dethy in the middle of a regular game just doesn't work as far as design goes. It's just too strong. They don't care about their cop results, it's all about being conf!town that scum isn't allowed to touch until the scum in the dethy dies.

Which they did day one here

Yep. It's a lose-lose.

If the scum in the dethy is alive, that's a pseudo-masonry. Yes there's 1 scum there, but town should ignore the dethy unless it's super obvious who is scum. It solves itself by day 3. If scum kills in the dethy, then they oust their member in it quickly.

If the scum in the dethy dies, you've lost a member, and now you're forced to kill in the dethy lest they solve the game. This protects the rest of the roles in the game (namely that vigilante).

The issue came that even our alternate kill (Bell's suicide bomb) takes us body-neutral unless used to kill a lover pair (thankfully that existed, which is why we were given it, I'd guess, but still, as you guys saw, that was a terrible move that I told Bell not to take). Today would have been rough today with Bell and I alive, but I genuinely think that we could have gotten a mis-elim and moved onwards to what would be a relatively solid footing.

Unfortunately, some folks still take my usual VI play as scum on the site. I'm terrible at the game, and unfortunately because of that, people are terrible at reading me.

[DiamondSentinel]

I don’t think you’re a VI.

You just weren’t approaching the game with a town mindset.

Case in point.

Literally exactly what I did here is exactly what I do

every

game. There was a bit more defeatism than usual, but I'm telling you, this was my normal play, scum or no.

[DiamondSentinel]

I wasn't playing it up. It was literally the only chance we had was for one of the town to be lying.

[DiamondSentinel]

Just give it up Nahdia. It's over. We never stood a chance.