mystery box of silver 10. (done)

[Titus]

This started. I'll try to read tmo.

[Titus]

*wishes for a VC*

Not reading RVS. Playing from here.

[Titus]

*wishes for a VC*

Not reading RVS. Playing from here.

and for some reason mastina thinks youre town?

Yup. She also knows I hunt by association so that pushing me D1 is rather useless.

[Titus]

Mafia high grade shitpost more in my experience.

Any argument that involves the grading of shitposts is in and of itself shit.

[Titus]

*wishes for a VC*

Not reading RVS. Playing from here.

and for some reason mastina thinks youre town?

Yup. She also knows I hunt by association so that pushing me D1 is rather useless.

ok but that doesnt make you town.

It makes me town for today. Deal with it. Mastina and I know how to read each other.

[Titus]

Who is Norway OMGUSing?

[Titus]

Who should NorwegianboyEE be omgusing?

[Titus]

Ugh we're still in RVS.

[Titus]

Ugh we're still in RVS.

I'm not.

Mastina's vote is bad.

yeah i dont like mastina at all so far but i dont like plus either so im not gonna vote mastina.

So then why vote Menal?

[Titus]

Ugh we're still in RVS.

I'm not.

Mastina's vote is bad.

yeah i dont like mastina at all so far but i dont like plus either so im not gonna vote mastina.

So then why vote Menal?

Also why does your plus read impact mastina?

[Titus]

Okay that was quick i isod jjh and found scum

VOTE: jjh

Why is he scum?

[Titus]

Okay that was quick i isod jjh and found scum

VOTE: jjh

Why is he scum?

Oh now you respond?

His tone is just very off to me (obviously there’s not much content to critique)

Sure. Why not.

VOTE: jjh

[Titus]

Btw you are light scum too now titus because of the timing of this

Dude, you had me as light scum since I entered.

[Titus]

hey Titus do you think im town?

Don't know yet. I am just voting right now with someone whose reasoning isn't terrible.

Give me time and I'll formulate a scumread, tunnel them, get ignored and then nightkilled.

[Titus]

I don't even see why Menal's a thing.

Might as well vote superbowl9.

[Titus]

(I actually gut townread you on the low b/c of your confidence tho, dont tell anyone)

It's our secret. I won't tell anyone either.

[Titus]

PSA pickaxe pete has been playing terribly

No u.

Wow.
Such an omgus.

Terribly town or terrible scum?

Superbowl9 would you vote PP?

PP, would you vote superbowl9?

[Titus]

Oh and so can A50

This is a very weird gsme and I feel like I’m going to get insanely paranoid of my townreads later on if we don’t flip multiple scum early

Although maybe that would make it even worse if I didn’t then die, actually

So revised list

Mastina
Nero
Echo
Norwee
A50

Morning mage?

{null pile}

Ddl
Superbowl
Plus

Can you talk more about your mastina townread and your superbowl9 scumread?

Why do you think there's a wagon on you?

[Titus]

Terribly town or terrible scum?

Not sure what this means.

Pickaxe Pete and superbowl called each other terrible.

Was it terrible in skill, meaning bad town or terrible as in alignment meaning scum?

That's why I asked if PP would vote superbowl9 and vice versa.

[Titus]

Superbowl9 would you vote PP?

No because I don't believe I can get him killed today. But I would like him killed today

Why not? Why not go for your biggest SR?

[Titus]

Superbowl9 would you vote PP?

No because I don't believe I can get him killed today. But I would like him killed today

Why not? Why not go for your biggest SR?

Didn't say he was my biggest and if you think you can just vote your biggest scumread and get them elimmed in a large I've got something to sell you

It's how I play, so what are you selling? It makes me suspect anyone who doesn't.

[Titus]

Did anyone ever answer my question about whether the scum team got to choose which town members got powerroles or did they just select which power roles would be in the game?

Mate, if scum assigned town slots their PRs then it would be easy for then to both run them over by day and shoot them by night. No? So it follows they pick what types of power to give town, but not whom to give it to. It also helps them make good fake claims, since they know what PRs are NOT included. (And now that I said that I foresee the mod stepping in and stating the exact opposite just so I would look dumb)

Since when do scum pick the setup at all?

[Titus]

Pick your poison?

Yes but it's known there. Where in the rules does it say scum pick the setup?

[Titus]

@Taylor, That's mastina. She doesn't feel like she has a good grip until she has a full scumteam guess.

What do you think of Melanque?

[Titus]

No. I don't. In fact I know it wasn't. 5 to 6 is a good guess for a game this size. 5 scum at a minimum. Can you see 4 scum in this setup? Not unless multiball. Therefore a solve requires 5 scum minimum.

[Titus]

hmm ok i reread and menal seemed a little bit too excited about the nero wagon. it pings scum but its kinda obvious. people who know menal better can tell me whether thats something scum!menal would actually do. but whats really interesting is that menal switched to voting plus and hasnt mentioned nero since. nero is now near the top of the readlist though. makes me scratch my head. maybe the nero push was a meme, it was early game. i also dislike the wanting to flip his townreads if we dont catch scum early. it reeks of fake paranoia. so i think menal is a solid scumread for me. VOTE: menal

also, i think your real question was asking if im scum with menal. the answer is yes.

It wasn't. I happen to have mena as weak town and would like him to open more up on his reads.

Why did you feel I was trying to link the two of you?

[Titus]

Because I want to see if anyone else feels he's town and try to understand how such a bad wagon forms.

[Titus]

idk how I feel about SB. Like, I think their stuff now seems town but IDK if that's just caught scum that's turning on the charm after they got wagoned or he's town and telling the truth about that he was doing some gambit early on.

Gamma is scum so we can wagon that.

I think SB is the type of scum that will lead us to his partners if he's scum. Not sure he is though. He's a bad elim day 1.

VOTE: Gamma

[Titus]

Oh and so can A50

This is a very weird gsme and I feel like I’m going to get insanely paranoid of my townreads later on if we don’t flip multiple scum early

Although maybe that would make it even worse if I didn’t then die, actually

So revised list

Mastina
Nero
Echo
Norwee
A50

Morning mage?

{null pile}

Ddl
Superbowl
Plus

Can you talk more about your mastina townread and your superbowl9 scumread?

Why do you think there's a wagon on you?

@Menal

[Titus]

I think SB is the type of scum that will lead us to his partners if he's scum. Not sure he is though. He's a bad elim day 1.

First time I've heard this, why?

First time you've heard what exactly?

[Titus]

I think SB is the type of scum that will lead us to his partners if he's scum. Not sure he is though. He's a bad elim day 1.

First time I've heard this, why?

First time you've heard what exactly?

Characterizing scum as likely to lead to partners, is that just a way of saying im poor scum

No. It's a way of saying you're talkative. Talkative scum always leave associations. It's impossible to avoid.

I prefer eliminating scum with vapid ISOs or scummy lurkers d1.

[Titus]

Tempted to say we should unironically quicklaunch Gamma. Him ignoring my vote or Nero's declaration that he's scum while catching up is also scum-indicative.

Also, don't get scared by how quickly the wagon is growing. Scum are gonna want the sweet sweet buscred for this.

~Buttercup

Welcome to my townpool.

[Titus]

I think that at least one of Gamma or Menalque should be scum based on these wagon formations and I like Menalque as town.

[Titus]

Btw there is one person I expect to at least read me well, if not right

Who is that?

[Titus]

Hey titus you down to form a townblock

With trepidation. I don't have you locktown and menal scumreads you.

So yes, but you're at the outskirts.

[Titus]

I love when the VCA says I’m town, it’s honestly my favourite thing

My read on you is not based in VCA. It's far too early for that and we haven't had a VC in awhile (based on thread speed).

[Titus]

I was hoping you would say yes or no so I could figure out if you were trying to buddy me do you think thats a yes

It's a yes but I have my eyes on you.

[Titus]

Samantha is the landlord so any new applications are gonna have to go through her

That sounds like a polite way of saying new applications go to the circular file. Lol

[Titus]

I love when the VCA says I’m town, it’s honestly my favourite thing

My read on you is not based in VCA. It's far too early for that and we haven't had a VC in awhile (based on thread speed).

Is what you just said about wagon formation not VCA?

No. It's about wagon formation and wagon speed. Second, what I said was gamma/menal should contain at least one scum. My TR is based on your play and the inexplicable nature of your wagon.

VCA is short for vote count analysis. It's an analysis derived from vote counts.

[Titus]

Samantha is the landlord so any new applications are gonna have to go through her

That sounds like a polite way of saying new applications go to the circular file. Lol

I wanted to make a gif of samanthas avatar morphing into the dmv logo but i cant do it sadly

This made me laugh.

[Titus]

can someone walk me through the gamma wagon? it seems half meme and half VCA around early wagons... i dont understand.

It's not VCA.

Gamma just is here and doesn't feel like he's scumhunting. It's a decent wagon for day 1.

Can you explain the Menalque wagon?

[Titus]

NorwegianboyEE, what are your thoughts on Gamma and Menalque?

[Titus]

can someone walk me through the gamma wagon? it seems half meme and half VCA around early wagons... i dont understand.

It's not VCA.

Gamma just is here and doesn't feel like he's scumhunting. It's a decent wagon for day 1.

Can you explain the Menalque wagon?

not really. gut. cant speak for anyone else.

Your read on Gamma?

Taylor, welcome to my scumblock.

[Titus]

NorwegianboyEE, what are your thoughts on Gamma and Menalque?

Mena's push on Gamma doesn't seem like buddy/buddy but it's aggressive. I'm townleaning Mena's aggressiveness as that's more their town style. Gamma looks nullscum to me, and it's a growing wagon so i'm interested to see where it will be going.

Why not hop on? There's an open seat.

[Titus]

NorwegianboyEE, what are your thoughts on Gamma and Menalque?

Mena's push on Gamma doesn't seem like buddy/buddy but it's aggressive. I'm townleaning Mena's aggressiveness as that's more their town style. Gamma looks nullscum to me, and it's a growing wagon so i'm interested to see where it will be going.

Why not hop on? There's an open seat.

I am on.

I am sorry. My VC memory just ran out. Beeboop.

[Titus]

@Diamond, Talk to me about your BH and superbowl9 scumreads.

[Titus]

My townpool right now is something like this:

Nero
Vecna
TGP
Mastina
Superbowl
Taylor

@Buttercup - thoughts?

-Blossom

How is Taylor in there and not me?

[Titus]

Drunk Titus may or may not make an appearance this game. I don't let her out as much as I used to.

[Titus]

My townpool right now is something like this:

Nero
Vecna
TGP
Mastina
Superbowl
Taylor

@Buttercup - thoughts?

-Blossom

How is Taylor in there and not me?

Is this question specific to the hydra or do you feel you've obv!towned enough someone like me should town!bin you?

I feel that no one should really be TRing Taylor atm.

[Titus]

Except I’ve clearly indicated it’s not a blind tunnel, and I’ve shown preference

Your weak words will not damage me.

Yes tunnel chamber A or tunnel chamber B

I actually like you so Im kinda sad that Im scumreading you this hard

You uhhh.... are really trying hard to be obv!scum aren't you.

Edit: Nah. I've got Norway in a solid town slot, although I do admit I'm not sure they'll be a huge asset rn.

I actually don't think you're scum so can you try to work with me if you think I'm not being productive?

Welp town!DS hasn't changed. I am only surprised his tunnel isn't on me.

[Titus]

I have solid evidence that incriminates you that I will only be revealing in the court of law.

objection

Don't make me put on my work hat.

If A50 doesn't present his evidence, then the conclusions he draws from it are speculative and thus inadmissible.

That being said, the non-lawyer side makes me think DDL has something to hide.

[Titus]

Meow.

[Titus]

I've never seen town say "don't read the game"

I have suggested it and frequently do it.

[Titus]

I gut town read Taylor now. I mean maybe its not a great reason but that was my reaction. lol

Of course you do.

[Titus]

We can never see eye to eye on anything.

[Titus]

I'm going to work on my novel before arguing with you makes me grab a beer across the street.

I have to remain sober to assist a roommate tonight.

[Titus]

Anyway so I'm ascetic

hmm based on this subtle crumb i think i know at least one portion of jjh's role.

A50 feels fake, he did crumb though. No use pushing it today though. Bullets should sort that. I didn't see any crumbs of jjh. Jjh should have claimed ascetic post 1.

Taylor saying she knows a portion of jjh's role based off his ascetic claim is also sketch.

[Titus]

Nah he’s not fake he just claimed in the most awkward possible way without consulting PT

I don't feel like it is but like I said bullets will resolve. Having skilled players like yourselves as masons will strangle scum's ability to get away. So in the event I am wrong, either a) my suspicion protects A50 or b) a mason dies. It's best to document, let it go, and observe.

[Titus]

What would your flip say?

[Titus]

wouldn't the third mason not claiming add risk of a cop (if one exists) wasting their ability? obviously it would thin the pool for mafia to choose from as well, but I don't think that's a bigger issue

That would be a one night loss.

The odds of that happenening are 1 in / 23 -2 (outed "3p masons") -1 (cop won't check themselves).

So we get 1/20. Then minus the odds the cop gets roleblocked or either target gets nightkilled.
-nightkillshots -roleblocks on cop.

The worst thing if all of that happens right is the cop gets outed. Not worth it.

[Titus]

At least this gets us closer to lynching Taylor.

[Titus]

Requested a VC by PM

[Titus]

Is there any reason why we can't know what the specific name of the 3P mason clique thing is?

we do know. iso superbowl

For the lazy of us...

[Titus]

Although i guess it's ironic that i technically outed more PR's this time unintentionally because A50 was so convinced i was referencing his group when i used the word "mason miller"

Ok. Norway can be town this game.

[Titus]

If it's fake, the three of them will never be nightkilled and nightkills will show casting doubt on their claim. It's best to townbin for today.

I got pedited but consider BH's townread going down for that pedit.

[Titus]

If it's fake, the three of them will never be nightkilled and nightkills will show casting doubt on their claim. It's best to townbin for today.

I got pedited but consider BH's townread going down for that pedit.

I like the take in the first half of this. Why was the PEdit not towny?

An essay on the history of lynching is pure spam, iioa and utterly useless.

[Titus]

If it's fake, the three of them will never be nightkilled and nightkills will show casting doubt on their claim. It's best to townbin for today.

I got pedited but consider BH's townread going down for that pedit.

I like the take in the first half of this. Why was the PEdit not towny?

An essay on the history of lynching is pure spam, iioa and utterly useless.

Yes but think about the players that make up that hydra. Is there a reason to think it’s actually a scum move to do that for any of them?

Meta is weak. *farts*

[Titus]

We need a VC. :/

[Titus]

Well if Taylor is scum, then the masons aren't real. So we'll have to look at Gamma and April first.

[Titus]

Well if Taylor is scum, then the masons aren't real. So we'll have to look at Gamma and April first.

A50 said she was fakeclaiming it

I missed that. Thank you.

[Titus]

My VCA machine and I are eating popcorn.

Consider my vote on the largest of the two wagons of Sam and Gamma.

[Titus]

If sam flips green can yall agree to listen to me for the rest of the game

I never agree to something like this. Ever.

[Titus]

mastina, tSwift fakeclaimed

[Titus]

mastina continues to ping me. I do not like it. I do not like it one bit.

Fight me. I'd take a bullet for mastina.

[Titus]

I really just love how this town has 0 care for outing PRs i think that will raise our chances of winning, how about we all just massclaim right now

Ok. I claim town smartass. I know too much for my own good. I come fully equipped with a VCA no one understands on day 3 with a scum lynch that's not a guilty.

[Titus]

Fascinating
Gamma gets run up
>attempted CW on norwee
>attempted CW on ban hydras
>attempted CW on samantha!slot
i n t e r e s t i n g

Yup!

Interestingly enough, the Ban Hydras and samantha!slot one gained a lot of steam for egregiously bad reasons, so both are terrible-ass counterwagons to Gamma based on shit reasoning that gained more steam.

Compared to the attempted counterwagon on Norwegian, which was for good reasons and yet didn't gain steam.

Hmm, I wonder why the shitty-reason counterwagons to Gamma gained steam, while the reasonable-reason counterwagon to Gamma didn't?
Whyever could that be.

*Wishes I could bookmark this post for VCA*

[Titus]

I really just love how this town has 0 care for outing PRs i think that will raise our chances of winning, how about we all just massclaim right now

Ok. I claim town smartass. I know too much for my own good. I come fully equipped with a VCA no one understands on day 3 with a scum lynch that's not a guilty.

I really hate to be the L-word police but I'm just gonna keep putting reminders

And in that case I claim third-party aligned town, I'm town but my wincon is only satisfied when a 3rd party wins

*conjures up another third party*

[Titus]

Superbowl, did a cat bite your tongue?

[Titus]

Why is jjh so high in your list mastina?

[Titus]

Btw, I'd put DS higher. He could be scum but I'd put him higher than weak town but not quite strong town.

[Titus]

Superbowl, did a cat bite your tongue?

?

You said you win when a third party wins. I jokingly asked you would you win if another 3p won.

[Titus]

Can I get your thoughts on 2241 superbowl?

[Titus]

But also don’t agree with the conclusion that it’s because of scum motivation necessarily, mostly because ik A50 is not scum and hopped to samantha

That's the thing about wagonomics and VCA. Not every vote on a scum driven wagon is scum. You remove the town first then look at who is left. Then draw conclusions.

It would be interesting to compare the names of gamma versus the other wagons and see who votes where.

[Titus]

Chemist, welcome. You might want to check out the transgender thread in the speakeasy.

[Titus]

Chemist, welcome. You might want to check out the transgender thread in the speakeasy.

i don't have speakeasy access

but if the ban thread is anything to go off of

well

okay i don't know where i was going with this thought but respect me or fight me, and i think we'd both prefer the former <3

(not directed at you just people in general)

You should request it. There's two threads technically. One is for trans people and allies. Another addresses a possible transphobia on MS. Despite the few bad apples, those threads are worth your time. MS has a disproportionately large trans community and lots of support.

[Titus]

I have minor reservations but wagonomics and extreme defensiveness from Gamma seems like this is the execution for the day. The claim from Gamma is scummy and designed to buy him another day.

[Titus]

okay who wants a townread in:

(diamondsentinel, shelly, April, morning mage, a50, ddl, TGP, Taylor, jjh, vecna, bell)

there are two available!

I don’t need your townread. I just need your vote on BH.

Also, @mod you are objectively wrong.

Why not Gamma? Are you townreading him?

Being annoyed with BH is not a good enough reason to stop the EoD.

[Titus]

There's the hammer I believe. I'll go PM the mod.

[Titus]

Fucking kill Menalque ASAP
I was scum, but Menalque is still not fucking town

Were you still a novice alien?

[Titus]

also, you all can burn in hell for making this game a fucking shitshow

Wow. Sorry...

[Titus]

Why is Melanque scum? Third party or multiball?

[Titus]

Is it setup related why he's scum?

[Titus]

Guys this wagon is too easy. Gamma must be town. There was no resistance!

There was resistance. Plenty for VCA. I'll start that tomorrow.

[Titus]

@Gamma, Talk to us to get Menalque lynched. You have a limited amount of time. I gotta go but it would be real helpful if you cased him, even with insider info if you have it.

[Titus]

The VCs don't show all the counters though. I may have to do work by hand if I don't get enough from the VCs.

[Titus]

Probably lots of scum in my CW Titus.

Can you tell me the post ranges to look at for when your counter was the highest? It doesn't show in the VCs.

[Titus]

@Gamma Last chance to explain Menalque scum.

@NorwegianboyEE Please tell me when your wagon happened

@Menalque Sorry

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

Let's see if we can be unanimous by the time the Mod locks?

On a serious note, I do think with how quickly the wagon completed, there was at least 1-2 scum on board.

I agree. Knowing Gamma was part of a scumteam with at least four players makes it more likely.

I am actually going to have to dig for context on this one and make hidden VCs due to the mod missing counterwagons. This will take awhile. Please do not ignore it. I'll be looking at Sunday for the project.

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

Let's see if we can be unanimous by the time the Mod locks?

On a serious note, I do think with how quickly the wagon completed, there was at least 1-2 scum on board.

I agree. Knowing Gamma was part of a scumteam with at least four players makes it more likely.

I am actually going to have to dig for context on this one and make hidden VCs due to the mod missing counterwagons. This will take awhile. Please do not ignore it. I'll be looking at Sunday for the project.

what if you die tonight?

Then my VCA may or may not be lost. Sunday is the only likely time I'll have to put into it. A normal VCA takes an hour or two. This one involves rereading and marking counterwagons, which cannot be done in an hour or two. If I wait until daybreak, work may stop me.

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

Let's see if we can be unanimous by the time the Mod locks?

On a serious note, I do think with how quickly the wagon completed, there was at least 1-2 scum on board.

I agree. Knowing Gamma was part of a scumteam with at least four players makes it more likely.

I am actually going to have to dig for context on this one and make hidden VCs due to the mod missing counterwagons. This will take awhile. Please do not ignore it. I'll be looking at Sunday for the project.

what if you die tonight?

Then my VCA may or may not be lost. Sunday is the only likely time I'll have to put into it. A normal VCA takes an hour or two. This one involves rereading and marking counterwagons, which cannot be done in an hour or two. If I wait until daybreak, work may stop me.

yeah but feels like a big time investment which might be lost. have you done that before and found it was wasted? and how did you feel about it?

dont get me wrong, if you're town and do it, much appreciated. but if it was me, i aint reviewing this one until the next day when i know im alive to do something about it

I haven't done it to this extent. I have had my VCA wasted and ignored when I lived before. Right now, my VCA is hot. It'll only require tweaks when the dead come in.

Having your reads be ignored/dying is part of the game. If I die, it suggests scum feared my VCA and I would hope it would inspire others to continue along the same path.

Dying night one is an honor worth the sacrifice of a few hours. I can share my work with dead chat and see how right or wrong I was.

[Titus]

go us!

yeah the mena thing could just be a red herring but there's a good chance that mena is a scumbud that gamma is trying to anti-associate with. He'll be checked @ some point or another.

I am concerned about BH. They were saying that scum was pushing them but they newver said who. Is it at all possible that scum did in fact start a cw on thier buddy and then BH didn't want to tell us wich buddies did that?

I hope my VCA answers this question and more. I do think we should look at the counters in detail. I like your theory but I am not sure BH was the choice wagon.

I like when we're in agreement on wagons. Goes to show I am not always XMen Nero. :-p

[Titus]

otoh. Mena and to a lwesser extent suberbowl, trying to rush a Gamma lynch looks p bad to me.

Go on

[Titus]

The wagons will judge

[Titus]

The wagons will judge

[Titus]

Superbowl9 I am worried your goal is to hyperpost to hide things.

[Titus]

Superbowl9 I am worried your goal is to hyperpost to hide things.

Should I hold an AMA?

Why would you fake claim with A50? I saw his crumbs and you aren't afraid of death? I am not thinking you're scum but I am curious.

[Titus]

Superbowl9 you ok?

[Titus]

Superbowl9 I am worried your goal is to hyperpost to hide things.

Should I hold an AMA?

Why would you fake claim with A50? I saw his crumbs and you aren't afraid of death? I am not thinking you're scum but I am curious.

There's no way in hell I would let A50 convince me to fakeclaim
But no I really am not afraid of death

Why should I believe you're masons when A50 is crumbing roles? He's trying to bait a nightkill and your bragging is trying to do the same. Masons should try to live.

Does your wincon flip or do we just have to trust you?

[Titus]

Gamma would not have confessed. Schadd is likely afk

[Titus]

Let's put that in the moonlogic bin Plus

[Titus]

also im kinda worried everyone is forming townblocks and im gonna eat lunch alone like middle school all over again.
can someone block with me pls

If the votes support it, I will.

Moon logic is a theory that can technically be possible, it has a remote chance of happening. It should be tabled until more evidence supports it.

[Titus]

Superbowl9 I am worried your goal is to hyperpost to hide things.

Should I hold an AMA?

Why would you fake claim with A50? I saw his crumbs and you aren't afraid of death? I am not thinking you're scum but I am curious.

There's no way in hell I would let A50 convince me to fakeclaim
But no I really am not afraid of death

Why should I believe you're masons when A50 is crumbing roles? He's trying to bait a nightkill and your bragging is trying to do the same. Masons should try to live.

Does your wincon flip or do we just have to trust you?

Nope just trust me

Not particularly inclined to. I want to know everything you're hiding that explains your conduct. I don't believe you're 3p masons because the mod would flip you as such. If you were, that would be bastard. You win con should flip as you say, or I feel you're lying.

The question is to what end. Trying to bait the NK isn't scummy. Your flip and claim aren't townie though. It could be pretending because you know you won't get shot.

What can you say about your flip? What is the name of your faction?

I'll trust mastina to help me sort this. This will give you a defender.

[Titus]

Can I claim

No one is stopping you but I don't see why you would want to.

[Titus]

What can you say about your flip? What is the name of your faction?

Already quoted what i would flip, our faction is just the role name with an s at the end

Can you just quote the post or say it again? This is a huge day.

[Titus]

GOLIATH GOUTHWITS HEALTH INTERNS

Just for you my friend

Thank you.

[Titus]

April feels town. Superbowl9 feels threatened.

[Titus]

NorwegianboyEE, Menalque, samantha and BH were all counterwagons to Gamma. Is there anyone I am forgetting?

[Titus]

Without Menalque hard-pushing for Gamma's death, we might not have ousted Gamma D1.

Bruh? He left for a counterwagon....

mastina is just shamelessly re-writing history to defend Menalque. I'm actually wondering if we should flip her first, just in case she is doing some bold white-knighting.

You want to die? We aren't doing mastina.

[Titus]

Battle Mage is part of the MM hydra? Now I really want to execute it.

[Titus]

april claimed investigative in twilight huh

Yep.

So if you’re a cop, investigate me please.

I can’t get town cleared on my role, and after defending Gamma, I have to rectify the situation.

Best way to do so is get cop cleared.

Or gunsmith cleared if there’s a gunsmith.

Can you investigate superbowl9? It's clear you're not a cop or gunsmith so you would bypass their miller claim. Not sure what good asking will do but it's worth putting my mind at ease by asking.

[Titus]

So, okay

I think probably no more than one in (April, MM)

Tsylor is still a high equity scumslot for the soft defence of gamma and then getting salty when called on it

Plus and ddl are both straddling the line of bait and scum

Super Bowl is annoying but town

Nero is town, mastina is town, Titus is town

Chemist is maybe town? Actually yeah, chemist town

A50 town, norwee town

Shelly probably town for the CW

I like this list with MM as the scum. A50 and superbowl9 are not town but their scumhunting appears to be. It's their behavior that puzzles me and makes me pause. They can be binned for now but are worth investigating.

[Titus]

NorwegianboyEE will have his fate decided by the wagons.

[Titus]

Titus, how come you're refusing to talk directly to me, and instead just shading me in every post?

We had a conversation earlier in twilight about my VCA.

Second, I am not sure which head I am talking to. That's a problem. Town!BM usually stands out and is pushing theories. This game your slot has been like an afterthought.

[Titus]

That’s pretty weak Wagonomics, Menalque.

It’s not meant to be a proof, it’s to see if my reads make sense when I look at the EoD visually

There's a few problems I see with that EoD shading. Would you mind?

[Titus]

if directing the cops is a thing now, I'll take an investigation tonight so I can get these bloody elims over the line more easily tomorrow.

It feels like I'm gonna be gangbanged by Titus-Menalque-Mastina-Pete-Taylor as a minimum otherwise, so a conftown probably useful.

Oh cool, Rule of 3, Taylor or Pete is scum.

[Titus]

MM is very obviously scum and we’re never not elimming there tomorrow

I think mastina has a soft spot for MM. Not sure and I am too lazy to check.

[Titus]

i think in terms of wagonomics ban hydras or sams wagon would be where scum would hang out
peddit: why is MM scum

MM is scum due to their passive and OMGUS nature. Battle Mage is usually a fearsome, loud voice even if wrong. He has a similar personality to DiamondSentinel when town.

[Titus]

if directing the cops is a thing now, I'll take an investigation tonight so I can get these bloody elims over the line more easily tomorrow.

It feels like I'm gonna be gangbanged by Titus-Menalque-Mastina-Pete-Taylor as a minimum otherwise, so a conftown probably useful.

Oh cool, Rule of 3, Taylor or Pete is scum.

what's a rule of 3?

although if this is some madcap theory which is predicated on me being scum...you dont have to answer

Anytime a scum mentions 3 or more people in a group, one of them has high likelihood of being scum or they stretch into insane positions which lets others catch them. Sometimes both.

Here, if you think mastina and I are townblocking Taylor, you aren't reading at best. At worst, there's the rule of 3 answer.

[Titus]

Yeah, you're a loud voice...in twilight.

Your suspects are literally me mastina and Menalque. We all suspect you and your FoS on me was recent too. You treated me as town earlier in the twilight.

[Titus]

Superbowl9, your thoughts on MM?

[Titus]

if directing the cops is a thing now, I'll take an investigation tonight so I can get these bloody elims over the line more easily tomorrow.

It feels like I'm gonna be gangbanged by Titus-Menalque-Mastina-Pete-Taylor as a minimum otherwise, so a conftown probably useful.

Oh cool, Rule of 3, Taylor or Pete is scum.

what's a rule of 3?

although if this is some madcap theory which is predicated on me being scum...you dont have to answer

Anytime a scum mentions 3 or more people in a group, one of them has high likelihood of being scum or they stretch into insane positions which lets others catch them. Sometimes both.

Here, if you think mastina and I are townblocking Taylor, you aren't reading at best. At worst, there's the rule of 3 answer.

right, so you're not looking at my slot in good faith at all - you're assuming i'm scum and focussing on pushing that false narrative.

as noted, you can't credibly accuse me of not reading when your view of my slot is so distorted. no bueno

I literally just gave an option where you were town. That's the not reading answer. Mastina and I have had taylor as scum most of the game. (There was one readwall where she had taylor as town but retracted because it was based on a fakeclaim). I have never once uttered taylor is town. To suspect that Menalque mastina and I would suddenly townblock with Taylor is baffling.

It shows that, if town, you haven't been reading and that's why you are not a vocal presence.

If you're scum, you just scratched for a buddy to drop. Or you could be not reading scum.

You can cry bad faith, but that's just patently untrue.

[Titus]

Titus it’s probably not worth it interacting with openwolfing scum

I mean, I’m aware of the hypocrisy

It’s just seeing you do it too is making me realise it’s not worth it

Fair enough. I am not 100% on MM scum, but I am sure enough where I'd vote if others did. I was hoping I could see a glimpse of town BM but :/

[Titus]

I personally think Morning Mage is bleeding town.

And you guys got one read right, so I definitely feel you are missing stuff on the other side.

That’s just how it works.

Go on.

[Titus]

BM has a bad habit of creating made up worlds to justify town tunnels though as town. BM doesn't reconsider. That's just who BM is.

[Titus]

NorwegianboyEE, Menalque, samantha and BH were all counterwagons to Gamma. Is there anyone I am forgetting?

How far up did Morning Mage make it?

I can make a note to check. I haven't started the VCA work yet.

[Titus]

A50 claims mason Miller like every game, and Mastina confirms the agreeance of Masons every game.

I was scum in Krazy Anime U pick and Elsa and her claimed masons, but Elsa was my partner, so I knew everything going on in Mastina’s play there.

It doesn’t make her scum by any means, but she goes along with Mason claims even if she thinks their fake.

I like that, though, as a playstyle trait.

I partially agree. I don't believe in pushing mason claims, but I do believe in vetting them. Trust but verify.

[Titus]

BM has a bad habit of creating made up worlds to justify town tunnels though as town. BM doesn't reconsider. That's just who BM is.

dude, regardless of whether you're scum or town here do me a favour and don't shit all over me. I sometimes do actually play well...

You do. Sometimes your tunnels are correct. You have a fatal flaw of not allowing in new evidence when town. It's something that can easily be faked as scum. So factor in you slipping that you're not paying attention or scum, it makes me not give a fuck whether you live or die.

So if you're town here, do me a favor and reset or reread or do whatever it is you do to break out of your feedback loop. If you dare lay a vote on mastina, I will come for you.

[Titus]

im like 50 pages behind at this point. ill try to catch up tomorrow, been real busy irl and have not had time to sit down and read this very long thread. im caught up to page 69. feel free to drop questions for me, ill answer asap.

What's your gamma read as of right now (page 69)?

[Titus]

I feel like Menalque’s ability to debate has gone down, but I don’t know if that means he’s getting worked here.

I can’t shake the feeling of Mastina warlocking Menalque now.

Warlocking?

[Titus]

@Titus - there’s just no reason for MM to do this as scum here, which is why I think it’s town indicative.

Flailing?

[Titus]

im like 50 pages behind at this point. ill try to catch up tomorrow, been real busy irl and have not had time to sit down and read this very long thread. im caught up to page 69. feel free to drop questions for me, ill answer asap.

What's your gamma read as of right now (page 69)?

Taylor

[Titus]

Town	Titus Plusjoyed Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain shellyc A50 Ban Hydras mastina Menalque
Above Null	NorweiganboyEE The Golden Paradox superbowl9 Bell
Null	DrDolittle EchoVision Vecna jjh927
Lean Scum	Chemist1422 April Ludgate Morning Mage Pickaxe Pete
Scum	Tayl0r Swift

Here are the results of my VCA last night. My notes will have to wait until I get home and have computer access.

[Titus]

A lot of day one seems like RVS though and spam. Kinda would love Titus and Mastina’s opinion on what happened day one and why the gamma wagon went through so I can get footing.

I will answer this partially when I get home and share my VCA notes as yesterday's wagons were weird.

[Titus]

im very interested in shellys first post considering I targeted them last night. too bad she's aussie / different timezone

Looks like you’re new. Here’s a hint if you’re town: don’t claim a PR type role and say awaiting in response because of it. You’ve just told scum you’re a PR when we’re down a tracker and I noticed some pants slips earlier so bad idea. Now you have also given Shelly an “out” of what to fakeclaiming possibly. Just instead next time drop a vote and see how it goes. If you’re scum by all means keep this up because it will help me out.

i normally would, but we have an ascetic claim and dead alien so if thats true we don't very likely have a way to make shelly not targetable so I need to know if my action went through. I'm odd night and either loyal or disloyal not gonna share which.

Wait why do we need shellyc not to get targetable?

[Titus]

I'll punt on that until shellyc posts as it's apparently important.

[Titus]

@Math, what do you think of my VCA even though it's out of date?

[Titus]

Titus i take it Taylor Swift is your preferred elimination today?

Taylor swift followed by April or Morning Mage.

[Titus]

I need to update my VCA to verify though. Math is correct.

[Titus]

also i started this right out the gate cause I thought I was getting POE'd and gonna be the target today. Guess I was wrong
oh well

You were cleared in my VCA because you lead the BH wagon and scum likely sheeped you.

[Titus]

I think given the flip if you’re going off pure VCa only Mastina can’t be lock town (even though I do townread her) because of nothing gamma’s slip and not voting him. I townread her by tone but this seems more like your opinion than a VCA based on facts unless something drastic happened in the spaces I haven’t read.

mastina's vote was one of the turning points on Gamma's wagon I believe. You'll see in my notes that I detail each player.

[Titus]

I think given the flip if you’re going off pure VCa only Mastina can’t be lock town (even though I do townread her) because of nothing gamma’s slip and not voting him. I townread her by tone but this seems more like your opinion than a VCA based on facts unless something drastic happened in the spaces I haven’t read.

mastina's vote was one of the turning points on Gamma's wagon I believe. You'll see in my notes that I detail each player.

I kinda need that atm because I have to work now and am far behind. I want to kinda see it and see if it matches my rough notes after I clock out

Far enough. There's VCs every ten pages or so that I did by hand.

[Titus]

I am in a neighborhood with mastina, Nero Cain, and Almost50. Almost50 was neighborized last night by me. He can confirm.

[Titus]

Still not home. I just saw this and needed to give input.

[Titus]

why did the neighborhood start out with 2 people

Three. Ask the mod post game, but we neighborize one person per night.

[Titus]

A50 check the hood.

Pedit: The hood started with me, Nero, mastina. We added A50.

[Titus]

A50 check the hood.

Pedit: The hood started with me, Nero, mastina. We added A50.

Titus I find this odd from you. Assuming you’re town rule of three implies one of Mastina/Nero/you is scum.
Why invite a mason claim to a hood with likely scum? That seems odd for you.

Working with a mason is a good thing. Even supposing there's scum in the hood, which there is not, a mason just works with town. We can sort out the Army that way.

[Titus]

We're actually mod confirmed to each other. See mastina's readwall having me as town before I posted.

[Titus]

so the additions dont necessarily share your alignment do they? if they did that would be wildly OP.

We are all modconfirmed to each other. Take it as widly OP.

[Titus]

instantly scumread A50 for a mason claim when you supposedly are

We did. See Nero pushing Superbowl9. My questions at EoD1.

[Titus]

But our conclusion is that we're all town aligned and the setup is designed to have us turn on each other.

[Titus]

A50 check the hood.

Pedit: The hood started with me, Nero, mastina. We added A50.

This feels like asking A50 to go along with a gambit and reasoning it to him.

This feels like scum who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

VOTE: April

[Titus]

But our conclusion is that we're all town aligned and the setup is designed to have us turn on each other.

so now you arent mod confirmed?

also i thought superbowl was in the hood. am i remembering wrong?

Nero Cain, mastina and I are modconfirmed.

Superbowl9 is confirmed to A50.

[Titus]

But our conclusion is that we're all town aligned and the setup is designed to have us turn on each other.

Why would you turn on each other if you’re all town aligned confirmed to each other?

There two sets of modconfirmed.

[Titus]

what are the odds A50 is a cult leader?

Zero imo. I buy his claim.

There are six masons in this setup.

Look who is pissed off. Scum in my VCA plus Plusjoy (who is town) and Math.

[Titus]

what are the odds A50 is a cult leader?

Is the game bastard?

No. There is no cult. April is just scum.

[Titus]

what are the odds A50 is a cult leader?

Is the game bastard?

No. There is no cult. April is just scum.

I mean, you’re wrong.

Straight up.

Why shouldn't I think you and MM and Taylor are scum?

[Titus]

what are the odds A50 is a cult leader?

Zero imo. I buy his claim.

There are six masons in this setup.

Look who is pissed off. Scum in my VCA plus Plusjoy (who is town) and Math.

I am not pissed just confused.

I just don’t see how 6 masons and a tracker and a motion detector and plus’s role and public day cop ever gets approved. This just doesn’t seem correct. There has to be scum somewhere.

Yes, in the whiners.

[Titus]

I am in a neighborhood with mastina, Nero Cain, and Almost50. Almost50 was neighborized last night by me. He can confirm.

I confirm, although I would have rathered you talked to me in there and let me handle this in a more subtle way (not the confirming but the reasoning and membership of the hood)

Sorry but I didn't want to look like I was stalling. I am not subtle. I bet Nero and mastina are upset too but it is what is it.

[Titus]

this game listed things it wouldn't do, CL not being included
never said it wasn't bastard

Link me? Sorry for being behind

Bastard must be declared in signups. I didn't see a cult game mention.

[Titus]

Why does it matter if it looks like you’re stalling if you’re literally confirmed to each other.

Because we're still in a 4 v 3 with 4 scum guaranteed to push on us because they lose if A50's hood and we don't turn on each other. We have to beat that pushback. If we do, town wins.

[Titus]

Well a masonry is conftown. I am confirming to A50 now.

[Titus]

Mod: Is cult possible or is that epic bastard?

[Titus]

it also mentions "romance???" which makes me think there is a lover thing going on in that group

Probably a scum ability.

[Titus]

what are the odds A50 is a cult leader?

Is the game bastard?

No. There is no cult. April is just scum.

I mean, you’re wrong.

Straight up.

Why shouldn't I think you and MM and Taylor are scum?

Because you don’t have real reasons, you’re just assuming from a weak Day 1 VCA.

If you truly are town, you wouldn’t have scum read overreaction from my result, which you confirmed, so you should absolutely know that my role exists, and in the very least, should bring to you the possibility and even likelihood of me being town, but it seems you got threatened, and went to attack.

You could be town, and I see that.

You are lacking that ability here if you are town.

You defended scum yesterday, allegedly investigated an obvious town fmpov, are defending Morning Mage who we have as scum and are expecting a townread for claiming because town roles did.

What's your shelley read?

[Titus]

it also mentions "romance???" which makes me think there is a lover thing going on in that group

Probably a scum ability.

Stop this line of thought please.

Move onto Math is an idiot and should just take the free win if you want but if you are right don’t fucking blow this up by helping scum.

Fine. Let's suppose we are both idiots.

Help me lynch April, morning mage or taylor?

[Titus]

it also mentions "romance???" which makes me think there is a lover thing going on in that group

Probably a scum ability.

Stop this line of thought please.

Move onto Math is an idiot and should just take the free win if you want but if you are right don’t fucking blow this up by helping scum.

Fine. Let's suppose we are both idiots.

Help me lynch April, morning mage or taylor?

If I suppose you’re an idiot I don’t start from your reads and build my own which I am doing. VCA went from Taylor to Gamma iirc so by that alone I kinda don’t want to consider her. April is out until you flip or you’re confirmed as she is a demonstrated motion detector and you don’t lynch the cop claim before the check (hyperbole) so that would leave Mage but I think their posting is good. Can you sell me on Mage so I can see how your thoughts are?

My notes will answer some of this. Taylor could be townbeard but her vva is bad. Can't do much on April. Morning Mage spent his time on counterwagons and only got active in twilight yesterday. He tried to push us and flailed. He is posturing not hunting.

They all avoid shelly because they don't want plus conftown.

They are running out of army suspect they can sus.

[Titus]

Why don't we just eliminate ShellyC. Their slot is very likely scum.

She might get confirmed as town

[Titus]

Titus, can you confirm the blood relatives hardclaim from mathblade? lol

Yes

[Titus]

I don't like jjh's claim either, but I don't want to lynch him. I feel this setup was "balanced" by what the mods expected us to do and jjh is a bait lynch. If he turns out to be the lynch today so be it. Setup spec isn't the greatest reason in the world.

[Titus]

Anyway, I am home now. VCA notes time.

[Titus]

Spoiler: VCA methodology

1. Establish Assumptions and Methodology
2. Gather Data
3. Post Data
4. Do analysis

Spoiler: Assumptions

1. Nero Cain, Mastina, and Titus are town. (Will change this upon release, just doing the pure version in here.) - Well nevermind on this one.
2. The Scum Team has at least 4 members. [Based on the revelations from Gamma in post chat]
3. The Scum Team has less than 7 members. [Arbitrary assumption based on Gamma's rants.]
4. Gamma is a weaker role on the scumteam given he's one shot alien.
5. Given the number of counterwagons, scum were trying not to have one of their own go down.

Spoiler: Methodology

1. Get enough VCs to cover the space of the game. Approximately one every 10 pages.
2. Post all VCs into the thread or personal private note topic as this is night phase. They need to be colored.
3. Look at each VC to see motivations. Ask questions assuming both scum v town or scum v scum. (Note: T v T would be asked but we know Gamma flipped scum.)
4. As the VCs progress, look at prior knowledge to get a complete picture. (For instance if VC 1.4 clears someone, redo 1.2 analysis.)
5. Summarize conclusions.

Spoiler: Vote count 1.1

Vecna (2): DiamondSentinel, Nero Cain
Tayl0r Swift (2): DrDolittle, PlusJOYED
Morning Mage (2): Pickaxe Pete, TheGoldenParadox
Almost50 (2): Menalque, Vecna
jjh927 (2): Chemist1422, shellyc
superbowl9 (2): EchoVision, Tayl0r Swift
DiamondSentinel (1): Ban Hydras
shellyc (1): NorwegianboyEE
PlusJOYED (1): Morning Mage
NorwegianboyEE (1): superbowl9

not voting (7): Bell, mastina, April Ludgate, Almost50,

Gamma Emerald

, jjh927,

Titus

Spoiler: Vote Count 1.2

jjh927 (2): Chemist1422, shellyc
PlusJOYED (2): Morning Mage, Menalque
Nero Cain (2): superbowl9, Tayl0r Swift
superbowl9 (2): NorwegianboyEE, Nero Cain
Menalque (2): jjh927, EchoVision
Vecna (1): DiamondSentinel
Tayl0r Swift (1): DrDolittle
Morning Mage (1): Pickaxe Pete
Almost50 (1): Vecna
Ban Hydras (1): TheGoldenParadox
mastina (1): PlusJOYED
Chemist1422 (1): Ban Hydras
TheGoldenParadox (1): Bell
Bell (1): mastina

not voting (4): April Ludgate, Almost50,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

Spoiler: Vote Count 1.2a – End of 34, top of 35

jjh927 (4): Chemist1422, shellyc, superbowl9,

Titus

PlusJOYED (2): Menalque, thegoldenparadox
superbowl9 (1): Nero Cain
Menalque (3): jjh927, EchoVision, Tayl0r Swift
Vecna (1): DiamondSentinel
Tayl0r Swift (1): DrDolittle
Morning Mage (1): Pickaxe Pete
Almost50 (1): Vecna
Chemist1422 (1): Ban Hydras
TheGoldenParadox (2): Bell, Morning Mage,
Bell (1): mastina
EchoVision (1) : NorwegianboyEE,

not voting (4): April Ludgate, Almost50,

Gamma Emerald

, plusjoyed

Spoiler: Vote Count 1.3

Gamma Emerald

(8): Almost50, Ban Hydras, Nero Cain, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque,

Titus

, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE
Ban Hydras (3): PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Chemist1422
jjh927 (2): shellyc, Bell
Menalque (2): jjh927,

Gamma Emerald

PlusJOYED (1): TheGoldenParadox
Tayl0r Swift (1): DrDolittle
Almost50 (1): Vecna
TheGoldenParadox (1): Morning Mage
Bell (1): mastina
April Ludgate (1): EchoVision
DiamondSentinel (1): Tayl0r Swift

not voting (1): April Ludgate

Spoiler: Vote Count 1.3a – End of 58/Top of 59

Gamma Emerald

(8): Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque,

Titus

, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE, shellyc, mastina
Ban Hydras (5): PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Chemist1422, TheGoldenParadox, Nero Cain
Menalque (2): jjh927,

Gamma Emerald

Almost50 (1): Vecna
TheGoldenParadox (1): Morning Mage
April Ludgate (1): EchoVision
DiamondSentinel (1): Tayl0r Swift
NorwegianboyEE (2): Almost50, DrDolitte,
not voting (2): April Ludgate, Bell

Spoiler: Vote Count 1.4

Gamma Emerald

(8): Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque,

Titus

, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE, mastina, Morning Mage
Ban Hydras (6): PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Chemist1422, Nero Cain, shellyc,

Gamma Emerald

NorwegianboyEE (3): Almost50, DrDolittle, TheGoldenParadox
Menalque (1): jjh927
Almost50 (1): Vecna
April Ludgate (1): EchoVision
DiamondSentinel (1): Tayl0r Swift

not voting (2): April Ludgate, Bell

Spoiler: Vote Count 1.4a - End of 80/Top of 81

Gamma Emerald

(8): Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque,

Titus

, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE, mastina, Morning Mage
Ban Hydras (6): PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Chemist1422, Nero Cain, shellyc,

Gamma Emerald

NorwegianboyEE (4): Almost50, DrDolittle, TheGoldenParadox, Tayl0r Swift
Menalque (1): jjh927
Almost50 (1): Vecna
April Ludgate (1): EchoVision
not voting (2): April Ludgate, Bell

Spoiler: Vote Count 1.5

Gamma Emerald

(6): Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete,

Titus

, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE, mastina
Ban Hydras (5): PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Chemist1422, shellyc,

Gamma Emerald

shellyc (5): April Ludgate, Morning Mage, Almost50, Menalque, Nero Cain
NorwegianboyEE (3): DrDolittle, TheGoldenParadox, Tayl0r Swift
Menalque (1): jjh927
Almost50 (1): Vecna
April Ludgate (1): EchoVision

not voting (1): Bell

Spoiler: Vote Count 1.6

Gamma Emerald

(10): Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete,

Titus

, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE, mastina, Nero Cain, Menalque, PlusJOYED, Chemist1422
Ban Hydras (3): DiamondSentinel, shellyc,

Gamma Emerald

shellyc (3): April Ludgate, Morning Mage, Almost50
NorwegianboyEE (3): DrDolittle, TheGoldenParadox, Tayl0r Swift
Menalque (1): jjh927
Almost50 (1): Vecna
April Ludgate (1): EchoVision

not voting (1): Bell

Spoiler: D1 End

Gamma Emerald

(12): Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete,

Titus

, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE, mastina, Nero Cain, Menalque, PlusJOYED, Chemist1422, TheGoldenParadox, DiamondSentinel
shellyc (3): April Ludgate, Morning Mage, Almost50
Ban Hydras (2): shellyc,

Gamma Emerald

NorwegianboyEE (2): DrDolittle, Tayl0r Swift
Menalque (1): jjh927
Almost50 (1): Vecna
April Ludgate (1): EchoVision

not voting (1): Bell

Spoiler: General Observations and Assumptions

The VCA starts seriously at 1.3. That's when the Gamma wagon took off. The jjh wagon peeled off into the gamma wagon for the most part.
The Menalque counter does not show up for the large part in this VCA. Perhaps it never got steam other than a few random people popping on and off making it appear mentally bigger than it was.
The wagons were largely static since the Gamma wagon started. Wagons rarely peeled off from each other. This suggests that one of the counterwagons at least was scum as well.
This also suggests scum wanted to save Gamma.
Gamma has a weaker scumteam role.
Ban Hydras is likely a town wagon, but not necessarily. The presence of Gamma on the wagon is the sole reason I have for any possible doubt there. Gamma's vote could be a reason not to vote Ban Hydras. We'll see how the votes stack up in general once I factor in the known likely knowledge.
Known likely knowledge is defined as A50 likely being town of somesort and to a weaker extent superbowl9. I don't completely trust their claim but I doubt they are group scum.
This also assumes a scumteam of 4+ given Gamma's last confession.
This also assumes some form of secondary third party, and that my VCA will likely not catch them.
A counterwagon is defined as 3+ voters as caught in my VCs.
This VCA will look at counter voters, people on Gamma, and stragglers. Someone may show up in multiple categories depending on their position in the VCs. If so, the summary will be repeated twice. Each individual is getting their own VCA analysis to make up for the lack of data points due to only one day being completed.

Spoiler: Players on Counters

• 1.3 - Ban Hydras
  • Plusjoyed - Scum rarely start counterwagons to themselves unless Ban Hydras is a weaker scumrole than Gamma, we can confidently slot Plusjoyed as town. His vote remained pretty static until 1.6 where he voted for Gamma to end the day. He could have easily jumped to a counterwagon to continue the day and didn't. Strong town lean.
    
  • Diamond Sentinel - For the same reasons, I would put DS as strong town here. Personality wise DS being taken advantage of by the scum team to push Ban Hydras makes sense. Strong town lean.
    
  • Chemist1422- This is the first vote I feel has a realistic possibility of being scum. Swinging a second wagon requires momentum. Chemist seems pretty sheepy to Plusjoyed. Push him to see if he has opinions different than Pushjoy. Lean scum.
• 1.3a - Ban Hydras
  • The Golden Paradox - TGP shifts from Ban Hydras to NorweiganboyEE. I suspect that TGP and Norweigan are opposite alignments. See my conclusions about Norweiganboy to see my conclusions here if I forget to update this.
    
  • Nero Cain - I doubt Nero Cain is scum because his vote hopping shows independent thought and his vote move to restart the Gamma wagon was the big indicator that none of the other wagons were going through. Strong town

• 1.4 - Ban hydras
  • shellyc - The counterwagon on shellyc is lead by people who were largely stragglers until 1.5. So Gun to My Head town based on the votes of other people. Shelly also played a part in keeping the gamma wagon at eight when others jumped off. Moderate town.

• 1.4 NorweiganboyEE
  • Almost50 - He started the wagon on scum, even if he wound up getting off. This alone is worth a townread for now. His votes do indicate a fair amount of shopping for an alternative wagon. If it wasn't for his early vote and his claim, I would likely be SRing this slot. Right now, weak town.
    
  • DrDolittle - Fits straight up to his name. Would lynch. Below null but not really a full on scumread. If a vig shot here, I wouldn't exactly cry.

• 1.4a - NorweiganboyEE
  • Tayl0r Swift - Starts off by voting prob town Menalque (more on this later) and then still straggle voting Diamond Sentinel. If NorweiganboyEE is town, then Tayl0r was likely the holdout vote to try and swing a town mislynch or bus a weaker scum role. Probably scum.

• 1.5 - shellyc
  General thoughts: Another counter wagon here is surprising since it's the third at the same time. I expect a lot of the wagon to be the opposing alignment as shelly. Right now given I suspect shelly town, this ought to have more scum than average.
  • April Ludgate - Their first vote is on a fresh counterwagon which looks to be to try and shake up the game. Weak scum. For those of you who like ISO dives and that type of content, if she defends Gamma, there is a high probability of hitting scum here.
    
  • Morning Mage - Morning Mage was on stragglers first and then jumped to Gamma. He jumps off onto a counterwagon that forms at the last second. If April isn't scum, high odds that MM is scum. I'd be shocked if both were scum but I can't rule it out given the scummy vote patterns.
    
  • Menalque - He's an earlyish voter on Gamma, but jumps off when the shellyc wagon starts to form. If Menalque is scum, it would explain why the wagon didn't take. Scum overload. Right now in a watchlist category, same as AA.

Spoiler: Players on Gamma only

• Ban Hydras - I feel relatively comfortable calling this slot town. Sure it's theoretically possible that town guessed right on both wagons and that caused the excess in counterwagons. I would expect more scum on the Ban Hydras wagon if Ban Hydras was a weaker scumrole than Gamma. So that leaves Ban Hydras being a stronger scumrole than Gamma. So more scum would favor Gamma. That doesn't make sense because of the way town peeled off the wagon and how players got on the wagon at the end. Ban Hydras also wouldn't start out hyperbussing. Damn near locktown but not quite due to a theoretical possibility.
  
• Pickaxe Pete - Largely quiet fourth on the initial wagon. Might be a bus that couldn't find a way off. Weak scum.
  
• superbowl9 - I am straight null here. Middle of the wagon, didn't swing, claimed mason though (not sure if fake), lack of wagon history. This will sort itself out. Not lynch for now but eyes on. Pretty sure it's moonlogic not to trust superbowl but I don't.
  
• mastina - Lock town, big part in forcing the EoD.

Spoiler: players on insignificant wagons

• EchoVision - Posting elsewhere. Requested replacement. This indicates he couldn't keep up with the volume.
  
• Vecna - True Null, siteflaked. Also requested replacement. Sort later.
  
• jjh927 - Pushed Menalque then fell off the face of the earth. Few posts too. Could be real life. Needs to step it up. Wouldn't cry if this was vigged or lynched. Just don't ignore it. No coasters allowed. This isn't a tabletop game.
  
• Bell - My methodology to create the VCs did pick up some votes showing he did vote, but he wouldn't commit to anything. Weak scum. Watch this.

Spoiler: Final Conclusions

Town or Town Aligned in someway shape or form (not in order of strength)
Titus
Plusjoyed
Diamond Sentinel
Nero Cain
shellyc
A50
Ban Hydras
mastina
Menalque

Uncertain votes and bullets will tell or time will
NorweiganboyEE
The Golden Paradox
superbowl9
Bell

Null would lynch
DrDolittle
EchoVision
Vecna
jjh927


Lean Scum
Chemist1422
April Ludgate
Morning Mage
Pickaxe Pete

Probably Scum
Tayl0r Swift

[Titus]

If you're going to challenge my VCA as poor, challenge its reasoning. I have no problem being critiqued but calling it poor because you don't like the results is a classic scum move.

[Titus]

Now, I'm going to update that knowing Norway is town.

[Titus]

Ok knowing Norway was town, then scum were definitely concerned about overloading the wagon/being caught off gamma/on ban hydras and waiting for town to move.
We know Ban Hydras was town.
We know Melanque was town.

We know based on these conclusions the Army was largely ineffective and could not get a wagon going. The wagons stalled out when scum got on. More scumpoints to Taylor Swift or Golden Paradox.

I'll revise this if Shellyc confirms as town or scum shortly.

But my bet is scum were passive looking for a wagon. That didn't work so they took an aggressive path today.

[Titus]

If you're going to challenge my VCA as poor, challenge its reasoning. I have no problem being critiqued but calling it poor because you don't like the results is a classic scum move.

I disagree.

If anything, me denouncing it on the basis of the quality of the VCA rather than the VCA itself is more indicative of townMe.

You have failed to use the VCA in a throwing out net kind of way, and instead are grabbing fish, and just squeezing guts out to see the colors, which is how VCA gets wrecked by any scum capable of swimming through the holes in the net.

VCA is more of a big net, filtration system, and you’re using it like a harpoon gun.

Well if you think my VCA has flaws, why don't you put forth what the army was doing and who the scumteam is?

[Titus]

Be sure of when I say, it is most definitely not the results of said VCA, it’s the process and application of it, especially considering you left out and ignored multiple scenarios, such as the Samantha slot possibly being scum, such as multiball.

So I’m not arguing your results, I’m arguing the process and application thus the result is voided regardless.

I use VCA essentially every game, you don’t get definitive’s this early, you get hypotheticals, and you failed to amuse the idea of scum making any sort of action anywhere, which is highly unlikely, and is an action in and of itself to withhold action.

I didn't ignore Samantha slot as scum. I found it highly improbable, just like multiball.

I have a hypothesis. I don't have lock scum based on this alone. My theory is that you and MM are scum, but my theory also says that not both of you are scum right now.

Pedit: Math, I can suppose caught scum was honest yes.

[Titus]

Post all VCs into the thread or personal private note topic as this is night phase. They need to be colored.
3. Look at each VC to see motivations. Ask questions assuming both scum v town or scum v scum. (Note: T v T would be asked but we know Gamma flipped scum.)
4. As the VCs progress, look at prior knowledge to get a complete picture. (For instance if VC 1.4 clears someone, redo 1.2 analysis.)
5. Summarize conclusions.

“See motivations” is subjective. All objective information should be obtained first.
Prior knowledge should be the foundation as that can’t change.
This looks like you are trying to formulate what you do versus an actual process.
Anyone can do “see motivations” and get different results.

Then show me yours. Seeing the motivations of the scumteam is quite apparent, especially given what we know today.

If shelly confirms as town, then we know

every single wagon other than gamma was town

. That makes the motivation and position of the scumteam pretty clear.
If shelly is scum, then we know some town slots on the outside pushed a secondary wagon.

[Titus]

mathblade can you summon shelly to answer my question for me

I agree. We need this.

[Titus]

Be sure of when I say, it is most definitely not the results of said VCA, it’s the process and application of it, especially considering you left out and ignored multiple scenarios, such as the Samantha slot possibly being scum, such as multiball.

So I’m not arguing your results, I’m arguing the process and application thus the result is voided regardless.

I use VCA essentially every game, you don’t get definitive’s this early, you get hypotheticals, and you failed to amuse the idea of scum making any sort of action anywhere, which is highly unlikely, and is an action in and of itself to withhold action.

I didn't ignore Samantha slot as scum. I found it highly improbable, just like multiball.

I have a hypothesis. I don't have lock scum based on this alone. My theory is that you and MM are scum, but my theory also says that not both of you are scum right now.

Pedit: Math, I can suppose caught scum was honest yes.

That was how you were feeling Day 1, so that highly indicates your VCA is biased and therefore inaccurate conclusions in the given state.

I understood exactly what MM was talking about Day 1, so I have no clue why you were so taken aback by such play, especially when Battle Mage is obvi an aggro townie, like just in general.

My analysis backing up my game reads =/= my VCA is biased or flawed. There are several other suspects besides you. Suspects that I intend to go through, especially if no one wants to lynch you.

Battle Mage can simulate his meta. Battle Mage plays like me when I started on the site. He's going to be aggressive period.

[Titus]

Post all VCs into the thread or personal private note topic as this is night phase. They need to be colored.
3. Look at each VC to see motivations. Ask questions assuming both scum v town or scum v scum. (Note: T v T would be asked but we know Gamma flipped scum.)
4. As the VCs progress, look at prior knowledge to get a complete picture. (For instance if VC 1.4 clears someone, redo 1.2 analysis.)
5. Summarize conclusions.

“See motivations” is subjective. All objective information should be obtained first.
Prior knowledge should be the foundation as that can’t change.
This looks like you are trying to formulate what you do versus an actual process.
Anyone can do “see motivations” and get different results.

Then show me yours. Seeing the motivations of the scumteam is quite apparent, especially given what we know today.

If shelly confirms as town, then we know

every single wagon other than gamma was town

. That makes the motivation and position of the scumteam pretty clear.
If shelly is scum, then we know some town slots on the outside pushed a secondary wagon.

I am not sure how you get to the bold. I can’t show you mine until after work. Job comes first

Sure.

The counterwagons were
Melanque - dead conftown
Ban Hydras - dead conftown
NorweiganboyEE - might as well be conftown, confirmed not army
shellyc - Slot of questionable but confirmable alignment

That means if shellyc is confirmed not army, then no counterwagon was army.

[Titus]

Post all VCs into the thread or personal private note topic as this is night phase. They need to be colored.
3. Look at each VC to see motivations. Ask questions assuming both scum v town or scum v scum. (Note: T v T would be asked but we know Gamma flipped scum.)
4. As the VCs progress, look at prior knowledge to get a complete picture. (For instance if VC 1.4 clears someone, redo 1.2 analysis.)
5. Summarize conclusions.

“See motivations” is subjective. All objective information should be obtained first.
Prior knowledge should be the foundation as that can’t change.
This looks like you are trying to formulate what you do versus an actual process.
Anyone can do “see motivations” and get different results.

Then show me yours. Seeing the motivations of the scumteam is quite apparent, especially given what we know today.

If shelly confirms as town, then we know

every single wagon other than gamma was town

. That makes the motivation and position of the scumteam pretty clear.
If shelly is scum, then we know some town slots on the outside pushed a secondary wagon.

I am not sure how you get to the bold. I can’t show you mine until after work. Job comes first

Sure.

The counterwagons were
Melanque - dead conftown
Ban Hydras - dead conftown
NorweiganboyEE - might as well be conftown, confirmed not army
shellyc - Slot of questionable but confirmable alignment

That means if shellyc is confirmed not army, then no counterwagon was army.

Which VC are you using as a point?

And assuming shelly is not army, that doesn’t mean gamma was tried to be saved. Game states like that hang and planned bus becomes a thing. Going from two to eight votes that fast generally indicates a planned bus only the tone doesn’t fit

The tone doesn't fit because it wasn't a planned bus.

[Titus]

Here’s the thing, townMe isn’t going to live late anyways, because I can help confirm Plus’ actions giving us clears/guilties.

Scum have to deal with us.

Town Protectives should be on Plus.

And Titus probably realizes this and has to push me. I’ve become a giant threat to the scum team just based on my ability to obv town by play.

Could be wrong, Titus could be a puppet being used by scum, and the mastermind is elsewhere. If Titus is town, I believe you are being pocketed somewhere, but I’ll have to find out where.

Early guesses are Mastina, but i don’t wanna slide down that rabbit hole just yet

This is a reason to let you live.

UNVOTE: April

You'll hang yourself soon enough.

mastina's town.

[Titus]

Town	Titus Plusjoyed Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain shellyc A50 Ban Hydras mastina Menalque
Above Null	NorweiganboyEE The Golden Paradox superbowl9 Bell
Null	DrDolittle something_smart Mathblade jjh927
Lean Scum	Chemist1422 April Ludgate Morning Mage Pickaxe Pete
Scum	Tayl0r Swift

A planned bus doesn't generate four counters. Scum would abandon the bus.

I have realistically 8 names that could be scum. I'm cutting off at above null right now. That needs to have 4 scum.

Can you look at your notes and see who overlaps?

[Titus]

Assuming you’re town rule of three implies one of Mastina/Nero/you is scum.

Rule of... huh? Are you trying to modWIFOM schadd?

^scum

That's possible. Want to wagon it?

VOTE: SS

[Titus]

air cannot be "Cold" or "Hot" or even "Neutral Temperature"

vote count 1.3

Gamma Emerald (8):

Almost50, Ban Hydras, Nero Cain, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque, Titus, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE

Ban Hydras (3):

PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Christøpher

jjh927 (2):

samantha97, Bell

Menalque (2):

jjh927, Gamma Emerald

PlusJOYED (1):

TheGoldenParadox

Tayl0r Swift (1):

DrDolittle

Almost50 (1):

Vecna

TheGoldenParadox (1):

Morning Mage

Bell (1):

mastina

April Ludgate (1):

EchoVision

DiamondSentinel (1):

Tayl0r Swift

not voting (1):

April Ludgate,

with 23 alive, it takes 12 to Execute someones Ass. day 1 ends october 24th at 13:30 central US time; in (expired on 2020-10-24 13:30:00)

mod notes

• 831: i have not provided information about how roles were assigned this game. there have been past games in the series (such as the first one) where mafia were given a role and forced to assign it to a member of the town

[/area]

Take a look at here Mastina is a useless vote on bell after calling out gamma’s scum slip. She’s then on it at the next mod VC. If it’s not a planned bus then Mastina should be scrutinized. You’d end up with a very weird distribution of unassigned votes if we went with your theory.

Remember Civ how I told you beeboy was town and the VCs were some of the weirdest distributions ever? You said masons were your Achilles heel and according to you there’s two pairs. You have many people telling you you’re wrong. I suggest you restart

mastina's literally confirmed to me. I don't mind restarting but every premise I have will have mastina town.

[Titus]

Anyway, post 3264 Math please?

Is SS a suspect for you?

[Titus]

the reason it's difficult to comprehend is that it means if you are town, a50, then we have six masons.

I’ve been seeing a lot of people say this. FFS WE ARE NOT MASONS. We are A THIRD PARTY. We are NOT conftown to you. I assume titus’ group is the same to whatever extent. Saying 6 masons is too many is #1 wayyyyyyy too simplified and #2 just wrong, a town-aligned 3P just does not play out the same way masons would.

In this game, it pretty much does especially to the army.

[Titus]

Call me egocentric, because I am, but Titus, can I get some of the magic about why you have me as town from VCA?

Sure, but it might be offensive.

You were early on the ban hydras wagon and scum basically sheeped you. Early voters on counterwagons to scum are actually rarely scum themselves. Scum latch on and are desperate, which is supported in other places in the VCs such as the number of counters.

In short, scum used you.

[Titus]

the reason it's difficult to comprehend is that it means if you are town, a50, then we have six masons.

I’ve been seeing a lot of people say this. FFS WE ARE NOT MASONS. We are A THIRD PARTY. We are NOT conftown to you. I assume titus’ group is the same to whatever extent. Saying 6 masons is too many is #1 wayyyyyyy too simplified and #2 just wrong, a town-aligned 3P just does not play out the same way masons would.

Omg thank you.

This helps a lot.

Any chance you want to share your win con? If you have already apologies this game is insane

Their claimed wincon is that they win if town wins.

[Titus]

@April

Post 3264 if you please. Who do you think can be scum in the white names below above null? Tia.