mystery box of silver 10. (done)

[MathBlade]

Public cop and 2 kills. Hmm... Spooky.

Agreed on the hmm. Will explain in a sec.

Chemist’s post is sus as I don’t think any world where we lose a town tracker is nice even with a confirm someone isn’t scum but I just got out of a dr appointment where I had some drugs pumped into me so kinda want other opinions.

Two kills means either SK or multiball.

Wagonomics says multiball big public inno/tone doesn’t. To be clear I have only read the first few pages and The VC before Gamma got 8 and to where he did. Too much to read after a day of work.

I was scumreading Menal and townreading Titus (I know it’s the rare game I townread her *gasp*) and Mastina is town by tone but calling out gamma slip and not voting is sus.

I am having trouble figuring out the narrative as if it’s single ball bussing a PR for cred seems to be the mo or not enough influence to stop it.

If it’s multiball trying to figure out why only one scum team is mentioned in day open and flip?

So I guess single ball + SK/Vig?

A lot of day one seems like RVS though and spam. Kinda would love Titus and Mastina’s opinion on what happened day one and why the gamma wagon went through so I can get footing.

Also would love feedback on something if I missed something I should look at.

Will be checking back during lunch break.

[MathBlade]

Two kills means either SK or multiball.

And why are you excluding a Town Vig, may I ask??

Also: LONG TIME! Nice to see you back.

I was writing stream of conscious. Included it later on in the post.

[MathBlade]

im very interested in shellys first post considering I targeted them last night. too bad she's aussie / different timezone

Looks like you’re new. Here’s a hint if you’re town: don’t claim a PR type role and say awaiting in response because of it. You’ve just told scum you’re a PR when we’re down a tracker and I noticed some pants slips earlier so bad idea. Now you have also given Shelly an “out” of what to fakeclaiming possibly. Just instead next time drop a vote and see how it goes. If you’re scum by all means keep this up because it will help me out.

[MathBlade]

If it’s multiball trying to figure out why only one scum team is mentioned in day open and flip?

If it's MB I'd say the reason is we have "specific faction Cops", and -if so- then it's most likely the "other Cop" didn't act (again, most likely because they're EVEN NIGHT and this one is ODD NIGHT or something). The reason I'm suggesting this is because it'd be most strange to give one Cop a "Public Reporter" Modifier (is that what it's called) and not the other.

But that is IF it's MB at all.

I am leaning towards not multiball just the wagons don’t make sense.

I hope kinda starting today fresh will give me a handle on things.

[MathBlade]

What i'm trying to say is that i don't see a vig killing either of Ban Hydras or Menalque. But a Serial Killer might target either.

I could see a vig targeting Menal. But my meta on them is old.

[MathBlade]

Is there something I missed that implies that Gamma was groupscum and not 3p?

1- The name of the faction (certainly you don't think of a lone 3P when you read "Army", do you?)
2- The fact Norwee has just been confirmed not a member of that specific faction.

3P one shots are also very rare. So very likely gamma was group scum.

[MathBlade]

Town	Titus Plusjoyed Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain shellyc A50 Ban Hydras mastina Menalque
Above Null	NorweiganboyEE The Golden Paradox superbowl9 Bell
Null	DrDolittle EchoVision Vecna jjh927
Lean Scum	Chemist1422 April Ludgate Morning Mage Pickaxe Pete
Scum	Tayl0r Swift

Here are the results of my VCA last night. My notes will have to wait until I get home and have computer access.

Titus why are you just posting a random VCA here? I want to understand where your head is at. This doesn’t take into account deaths. Yes you did it last night but why share it now? It’s already out of date. Can you redo it accounting for deaths when you get home please and answer my question to you?

[MathBlade]

A lot of day one seems like RVS though and spam. Kinda would love Titus and Mastina’s opinion on what happened day one and why the gamma wagon went through so I can get footing.

I will answer this partially when I get home and share my VCA notes as yesterday's wagons were weird.

Sorry mobile post. Didn’t see this.

[MathBlade]

OK, that's enough. O would have loved to wait longer, but I can't have the day ending (1) So abruptly, and (b) with a very likely miselimination

I am a Miller Mason

I won't out who else is (we obviously share a PT courtesy of being Masons), but I will point you out to my -rather obvious- crumb at the start if the game.

If you ISO me, you'd find I posted 3 videos in my opening 3 posts. The first one: "I'm a bitch, I'm a lover" is meant to crumb I am something and it's opposite. Bitch/Lover, Child/Mother, Sinner/Saint >>> Miller/Mason

The second video is a song by Steve

Miller

band, and the third is by Dave

Mason

.

Now here's what first caught my attention about Norwee

:

Claim Miller Mason, Daycop, scum. - I sleep
Claim VT - I triggered.

As I saw this I thought to myself "Who the freak thinks of Miller Mason out of the blue?" and given I was (still am) under the impression Scum either picked roles (but not whom they're assigned to)

OR

are heavily informed I deduced there may be a Day Cop in play (thought that might be [redacted] when they [redacted][redacted]). But anyway, that was when I started looking at Norwee more closely.

When Bell asked about the setup, some people ignored it, some questioned it, and some tried to put off the notion Scum had anything to do with roles or knowledge about them:

Titus

was one, but I can see Town!Titus not noticing, so that's probably NAI

PlusJOYED

did it, and in a way that I deemed fake

mastina

did it (albeit in more style as always) and coupled with her weird push on Gamma vs Norwee I am truly and utterly worried she might have rolled scum here

I have other suspects, but this issue doesn't play any part in my reads on them, so let me stop at this.

If forced to provide a scum pool (and not limit myself to a certain number like mastina does) I's bet all scum are in:

Spoiler:

Hah! You thought I'd be giving you a list of whom my brother Masons are not?? Silly you!

This also needs a review with a public cop.

@schadd: Do you publically answer questions? If so if a Miller was publically copped however that happened would any modifiers such as miller or godfather come into effect? Or is this the “mod ordained” truth?

[MathBlade]

@Math, what do you think of my VCA even though it's out of date?

I am not sure. I only read the small bit.

I think given the flip if you’re going off pure VCa only Mastina can’t be lock town (even though I do townread her) because of nothing gamma’s slip and not voting him. I townread her by tone but this seems more like your opinion than a VCA based on facts unless something drastic happened in the spaces I haven’t read.

[MathBlade]

So I try not to bog myself down with incorrect VCA too much as I am reading. It causes biases to slip in. I know it’s bad because of a flaw I found and as I don’t have footing I can’t really critique further.

I do remember Taylor being voted and some point then gamma later. But my memory is fried after PFT

[MathBlade]

I think given the flip if you’re going off pure VCa only Mastina can’t be lock town (even though I do townread her) because of nothing gamma’s slip and not voting him. I townread her by tone but this seems more like your opinion than a VCA based on facts unless something drastic happened in the spaces I haven’t read.

mastina's vote was one of the turning points on Gamma's wagon I believe. You'll see in my notes that I detail each player.

I kinda need that atm because I have to work now and am far behind. I want to kinda see it and see if it matches my rough notes after I clock out

[MathBlade]

I detected motion from Titus

Can we please stop outright claiming? I literally just said so above. Titus if scum is a master scum. You don’t need to give her any outs. We still hadn’t resolved the last one where someone claimed loyal/disloyal. I seriously told you how to do it.

[MathBlade]

im town and loyal or disloyal. an ascetic or rolestopper effect would change the result and I"m saying we very likely don't have that. Basically wanna force a possible scum!shelly to take a 50/50.

So this and April’s PR claim need solved while I am at work.

With the motion on Titus and how many PRs have flipped Titus mechanically has to move out of top tier read. I still want her answers but a deep scum planned bus does fit one of my theories.

Like tone wise Titus is town but I am sketched out.

If anyone else is a PR please SOFT or hold ffs

[MathBlade]

I detected motion from Titus

Can we please stop outright claiming? I literally just said so above. Titus if scum is a master scum. You don’t need to give her any outs. We still hadn’t resolved the last one where someone claimed loyal/disloyal. I seriously told you how to do it.

No.

I do my own thing with proven success. I already claimed yesterday too.

The problem is we can only lynch one person.

Assume for a moment you and the other player both have guilties. Then the other of you is probably dead. I get you do your own thing. I am rogue too at times with my emotions loaded but you have to consider the consequences.

[MathBlade]

It could go either way.

I was hoping to get a no motion to eventually catch out Titus fake claiming, but I got motion.

Oh I agree with checking Titus. She’s always a good check. It’s your reveal I have issues with.

[MathBlade]

Why would I be dead?

Because if Titus is scum you would be outing her as scum and therefore nigh on locktown.

Pedit lol didn’t know. Still doesn’t change.

It’s more we’ve narrowed our execution way too far to four people and now have a lot of people not give content again. Talking outside of those four is now inherently sus because people have dropped trousers.

[MathBlade]

This makes it nigh on impossible because if I ask about Taylor so see why Titus is gungho despite my VCA saying likely exe setup victim we get into issues because Taylor can’t be the lynch mechanically from what it seems is here.

[MathBlade]

This is probably townPlus. Then claiming like that, I don’t see coming from scum.

I agree that this is probably town Plus and town you just the narrow focus means that if you’re both right scum decide who to sacrifice here. And if one or more of you is wrong we have just outed more information to scum for kills destroying NKA.

So I just in general get pissed when people don’t slow play it at least an RL day.

[MathBlade]

from my experience with titus she's pretty well-known for her VCA

and i don't think d2 after a scum flip is a bad time for it

I agree the timing is good but the fact she didn’t take into account known information and wanted to set my biases from it is troubling. VCA becomes viable the moment a scum flip happens but must take into account all info.

I need to see what Mastina thinks given Titus’s hard defense.

[MathBlade]

@schadd: Do you publically answer questions? If so if a Miller was publically copped however that happened would any modifiers such as miller or godfather come into effect? Or is this the “mod ordained” truth?

if there were the possibility of that kind of result tampering i would indicate as such. for instance, the information regarding norwegianboyee at the start of today is indeed true

doesnt this imply that the cop is miller-proof or that there are no millers in the game? or am i missing something?

I am not sure. I think we need more information but likely miller claim was a lie but people fake claim day one as “jokes” a lot. I think the information we need the answer this outweighs the scum hunting going on. Now if someone claims the public cop (don’t please today we’ve had enough claims) or it flips then hunt there. But right now we have two “claims against people” that need to be sorted.

[MathBlade]

I'm very excited right now.

And yes, that is a hard claim.

Are you Bell? How are you hard claiming it is multiball? Or are you just hard claiming town? I don’t want if it’s your role related or what not just want to calibrate my reads.

[MathBlade]

A50 check the hood.

Pedit: The hood started with me, Nero, mastina. We added A50.

Titus I find this odd from you. Assuming you’re town rule of three implies one of Mastina/Nero/you is scum.
Why invite a mason claim to a hood with likely scum? That seems odd for you.

[MathBlade]

Is it a group vote or you decide after asking people?

[MathBlade]

A50 check the hood.

Pedit: The hood started with me, Nero, mastina. We added A50.

Titus I find this odd from you. Assuming you’re town rule of three implies one of Mastina/Nero/you is scum.
Why invite a mason claim to a hood with likely scum? That seems odd for you.

Working with a mason is a good thing. Even supposing there's scum in the hood, which there is not, a mason just works with town. We can sort out the Army that way.

No more so than a largely townread player. The mason can’t out their partner(s) in the hood if valid. Mason claims are very jokey on d1 especially no pressure. So benefit wise seems at best a VT in there and you’ve given scum cards to play in advance. Like I feel like you’re either not all here or scum.

[MathBlade]

We're actually mod confirmed to each other. See mastina's readwall having me as town before I posted.

I find this odd that you’re mod confirmed town yet don’t instantly scumread A50 for a mason claim when you supposedly are.

Mastina as town puts people as town before they post. It means nothing towards alignment. I learned that when I tunneled her for doing that in a game she was town.

[MathBlade]

instantly scumread A50 for a mason claim when you supposedly are

We did. See Nero pushing Superbowl9. My questions at EoD1.

Link me.

I will check it out later. I just didn’t see anything around the first post where he claimed.

[MathBlade]

But our conclusion is that we're all town aligned and the setup is designed to have us turn on each other.

Conclusion or mod confirmed? These are two very different things. You could be not army and not be town. You could be a lot of things.

[MathBlade]

But our conclusion is that we're all town aligned and the setup is designed to have us turn on each other.

Why would you turn on each other if you’re all town aligned confirmed to each other?

There two sets of modconfirmed.

Are themes still reviewed?

[MathBlade]

Yeah no way that hood all shares a town wincon, and is all mod confirmed to each other, that'd be ridiculous.
At worst they win when town is dead, like a cult. If that were the case I'd think killing Titus would kill the cult otherwise town would just lose.
At best they have some other objective besides killing scum. Maybe recruiting a specific role?

There’s something fishy here but I think Titus may be the town idiot. I am trying to get her out of her shell to either question her assumptions or explain them better.

[MathBlade]

@Bell - what you got on Math? I feel like they’re decently townie, but just kind of pushing left and right

The second they started pushing against someone that said were mod confirmed to each other with 3 players was the second he scum claimed.

And then Titus walked it back. But that shouldn’t shake my initial feeling on mathblade though also

Alskfjsnck

If you want to push me go ahead. I am a bit rusty after a break so I am just poking to see what fits and what doesn’t to get a sense of the game

[MathBlade]

what are the odds A50 is a cult leader?

Is the game bastard?

[MathBlade]

what are the odds A50 is a cult leader?

Zero imo. I buy his claim.

There are six masons in this setup.

Look who is pissed off. Scum in my VCA plus Plusjoy (who is town) and Math.

I am not pissed just confused.

I just don’t see how 6 masons and a tracker and a motion detector and plus’s role and public day cop ever gets approved. This just doesn’t seem correct. There has to be scum somewhere.

[MathBlade]

I think we need to elim at least 1 person in the group just to see what they are. I'd like to go Titus or A50 today.
Titus cuz CL theory
A50 cause he backtracked miller and I think that's just him being caught with something that doesn't make sense.

Cult leader requires bastard. I think something is up I just don’t know enough to know what to ask.

[MathBlade]

But our conclusion is that we're all town aligned and the setup is designed to have us turn on each other.

But our conclusion is that we're all town aligned and the setup is designed to have us turn on each other.

so now you arent mod confirmed?

also i thought superbowl was in the hood. am i remembering wrong?

Nero Cain, mastina and I are modconfirmed.

Superbowl9 is confirmed to A50.

This is a glaring inconsistency.

I agree. I pointed it out more delicately. Something is up. I just don’t know what I don’t know.

[MathBlade]

this game listed things it wouldn't do, CL not being included
never said it wasn't bastard

Link me? Sorry for being behind

[MathBlade]

I am in a neighborhood with mastina, Nero Cain, and Almost50. Almost50 was neighborized last night by me. He can confirm.

I confirm, although I would have rathered you talked to me in there and let me handle this in a more subtle way (not the confirming but the reasoning and membership of the hood)

Sorry but I didn't want to look like I was stalling. I am not subtle. I bet Nero and mastina are upset too but it is what is it.

I don’t buy this. If this was genuine mod confirm 16 alive now iirc means 6 conf town means 10 remaining players.
Assume town exe every time
14 -5
12-4
10-3
8-2
6-1
4-0

If town mislynched every day and one town death every night scum instant lose. Someone double check my numbers please

[MathBlade]

@Math saying there's too much power

6 masons proly isn't too many when alignments aren't revealed on flip. At least that's my first guess.

~Morning

But gamma’s alignment was revealed on flip iirc? So masons not flipping would confirm them as masons? Unless scum have a janitor?

[MathBlade]

Why does it matter if it looks like you’re stalling if you’re literally confirmed to each other.

This. +1

[MathBlade]

I don’t buy this. If this was genuine mod confirm 16 alive now iirc means 6 conf town means 10 remaining players.
Assume town exe every time
14 -5
12-4
10-3
8-2
6-1
4-0

If town mislynched every day and one town death every night scum instant lose. Someone double check my numbers please

number
s aside, your conclusion is valid.

What makes you guys think the addition to Titus' hood is confirmed as town? I assume Titus meant just the base hood/masonry

~Morning

I don’t know who you guys is. Titus says 6 masons. I am analyzing the claim.

If it’s true then a win is a win and I am the town idiot and we win regardless. If it’s not we are better off with having the questions.

[MathBlade]

i checked signups. it said no "epic bastard" I don't think that means cult is impossible

Can you link me to signups? Can’t search well on my phone.

[MathBlade]

it also mentions "romance???" which makes me think there is a lover thing going on in that group

Ffs pants. Don’t give scum ideas.

[MathBlade]

it also mentions "romance???" which makes me think there is a lover thing going on in that group

Probably a scum ability.

Stop this line of thought please.

Move onto Math is an idiot and should just take the free win if you want but if you are right don’t fucking blow this up by helping scum.

[MathBlade]

it also mentions "romance???" which makes me think there is a lover thing going on in that group

Probably a scum ability.

Stop this line of thought please.

Move onto Math is an idiot and should just take the free win if you want but if you are right don’t fucking blow this up by helping scum.

Fine. Let's suppose we are both idiots.

Help me lynch April, morning mage or taylor?

If I suppose you’re an idiot I don’t start from your reads and build my own which I am doing. VCA went from Taylor to Gamma iirc so by that alone I kinda don’t want to consider her. April is out until you flip or you’re confirmed as she is a demonstrated motion detector and you don’t lynch the cop claim before the check (hyperbole) so that would leave Mage but I think their posting is good. Can you sell me on Mage so I can see how your thoughts are?

[MathBlade]

Lol, i think it’s hilarious that Mage, Taylor, and I are grouped up like that naturally.

I’d bring Plus into that.

I’m town reading those slots.

I do too but I really think this is town!Titus drunk on neighbor power and isn’t thinking with her legal mindset. It’s either that or scum. I just can’t wrap my head around her thoughts.

[MathBlade]

i feel that since repping in, mathblade has bent over backwards to come up with reasons to defend Titus, and I'm struggling to see why.

It’s partially because when we fight it gets bad. I am trying new things to prevent toxicity. I also have a sore spot as she is my RL sister (different houses known thing) so I am trying to work with her versus against her.

If she’s scum she will have to take it and if she’s town it’s a breath of fresh air.

[MathBlade]

i feel that since repping in, mathblade has bent over backwards to come up with reasons to defend Titus, and I'm struggling to see why.

It’s partially because when we fight it gets bad. I am trying new things to prevent toxicity. I also have a sore spot as she is my RL sister (different houses known thing) so I am trying to work with her versus against her.

If she’s scum she will have to take it and if she’s town it’s a breath of fresh air.

she is your sister? wha?

Correct. I am her brother.

When we disagree it gets loud and heated so I am trying to repeat facts and give her benefit of the doubt as we both get moonlogicky and I don’t want my first game back from retirement to be a toxic shit show.

[MathBlade]

what are the odds A50 is a cult leader?

Zero imo. I buy his claim.

There are six masons in this setup.

Look who is pissed off. Scum in my VCA plus Plusjoy (who is town) and Math.

I am not pissed just confused.

I just don’t see how 6 masons and a tracker and a motion detector and plus’s role and public day cop ever gets approved. This just doesn’t seem correct. There has to be scum somewhere.

nsg approved this setup, so it has to be within the realm of reason. six masons is only sorta in the realm of reason, so i would say that to counter that town power this is definitely either multiball or 3p and scum power is pretty strong

correct me if i'm wrong, but cult games and mod lies are basically the definition of bastard on ms. i don't think that gets put into a game directly advertised as non bastard.

Agreed on all of that. And I don’t see 1 shot alien countering six masons unless planned bus and all other members have better powers or based on review board Titus is missing something.

Like multiball doesn’t fit with the public cop but does fit with role claims. This is a weird af setup.

[MathBlade]

We're actually mod confirmed to each other. See mastina's readwall having me as town before I posted.

I find this odd that you’re mod confirmed town yet don’t instantly scumread A50 for a mason claim when you supposedly are.

Mastina as town puts people as town before they post. It means nothing towards alignment. I learned that when I tunneled her for doing that in a game she was town.

LET ME SORT THIS OUT, PLEASE. Give me just 24 hours, then act the way you want. (I obviously have just received a TON of info, and have a load of questions to ask, and I need TIME to do that.)

I have already shut up awaiting response.

[MathBlade]

i think its safe to say i scumread bell this game as well. But I'm holding off on it for now

I don’t. I am a tough person to read. I can see the thought process. It’s incorrect but I can see it.

I think I have a problem of too many town reads and may scum by PoE but Mastina being here and A50 posting should be able to get my head on good.

[MathBlade]

But our conclusion is that we're all town aligned and the setup is designed to have us turn on each other.

Why would you turn on each other if you’re all town aligned confirmed to each other?

FFS. THEY (the 3 of them) are confirmed to each other and WE (the 3 of us) are confirmed to each other, but the two groups are NOT confirmed to each other. How hard is that to comprehend??

Can you elaborate for the idiot? (For clarity idiot = me)

If you’re confirmed to your three masons, and you can’t confirm Titus Mastina and Nero does that mean you can’t confirm what she asked you to?

[MathBlade]

I am just really confused. Can someone give me a summary of day one more than RVS? Because that’s all it seems to have been. Maybe if I can get a better hold of day one I can get more of a hold of the mechanics? Not you A50 I just don’t want the game to stall while you confirm/not confirm

[MathBlade]

does anyone else feel like an ascetic claim is really out of place here?

There’s an ascetic claim? That would lend credence to the SK theory. Makes sense ascetic SK with motion detector. Assuming that’s true it reinforces April’s claim.

[MathBlade]

At this point can’t put a number on it but if we can’t find an exe Target I would settle for the ascetic claim. And ffs no if there is a vig their shot was horrible and they should feel bad and fix their reads. Outing more power with how many claims there are would net us at best setup spec.

[MathBlade]

I don't like jjh's claim either, but I don't want to lynch him. I feel this setup was "balanced" by what the mods expected us to do and jjh is a bait lynch. If he turns out to be the lynch today so be it. Setup spec isn't the greatest reason in the world.

I agree. It’s not the greatest reason.

That’s why I said if we can’t find a exe target he’s a compromise.

However 6 masons I just have a hard time seeing approved. Like I get you probably believe that but if you’re town there is no harm waiting to be confirmed. I just don’t get the panic. If you’re truthtelling, you could have just claimed neighborizer and saw who pushed your conf town. Games aren’t meant to be ran as an irc chat

[MathBlade]

so schadd is actually aligned with the cult and titus is cult leader?

Uhm *facepalm* Schadd is the moderator.

[MathBlade]

Especially because Titus is failing to consider being on the Samantha wagon could actually be heavily town indicative based on Multiball possibility/actually might be scum still, meaning I would be getting scum pushed for a correct read.

That poor VCA by Titus is reasoning beyond to doubt her.

Town Blocking Plus, Morning Mage, Taylor, and A50 can join in, but the fancy snacks aren’t for you. You just get the regular snacks.

I really want to see what Mastina thinks. Mastina while great at scum isn’t the best liar. There’s concrete facts she has to respond to. Between that and A50 I think it will become clear.

Pedit lol I doubt a superstar has time to play this but if you do hi! I have no idea what this means.
Pedit 2 will read Titus’s wall now

[MathBlade]

2. The Scum Team has at least 4 members. [Based on the revelations from Gamma in post chat]
3. The Scum Team has less than 7 members. [Arbitrary assumption based on Gamma's rants.]
4. Gamma is a weaker role on the scumteam given he's one shot alien.
5. Given the number of counterwagons, scum were trying not to have one of their own go down.

These assumptions are flawed.

You can only rely on scum spew pre being caught not post. No burden of proof met especially with how public cop flipped. If you’re town you should redo this and assume multi-ball as an option. VCA should be done with as few of assumptions as possible. This looks like you’ve convinced yourself an outed scum was honest. It’s possible he was but it’s possible he wasn’t. Reading the rest

[MathBlade]

Post all VCs into the thread or personal private note topic as this is night phase. They need to be colored.
3. Look at each VC to see motivations. Ask questions assuming both scum v town or scum v scum. (Note: T v T would be asked but we know Gamma flipped scum.)
4. As the VCs progress, look at prior knowledge to get a complete picture. (For instance if VC 1.4 clears someone, redo 1.2 analysis.)
5. Summarize conclusions.

“See motivations” is subjective. All objective information should be obtained first.
Prior knowledge should be the foundation as that can’t change.
This looks like you are trying to formulate what you do versus an actual process.
Anyone can do “see motivations” and get different results.

[MathBlade]

Again Titus you’re rushing. You haven’t colored in the known facts. This is still outdated and flawed. You ideally should color in Menalque and Ban Hydras and start again clean slate. If you reach the same conclusions that is fine but I expect better reasoning than this. I know your VCAs are stellar but this is garbage.

[MathBlade]

mathblade can you summon shelly to answer my question for me

??? *confused* Not sure what you’re thinking I can do here.

[MathBlade]

Post all VCs into the thread or personal private note topic as this is night phase. They need to be colored.
3. Look at each VC to see motivations. Ask questions assuming both scum v town or scum v scum. (Note: T v T would be asked but we know Gamma flipped scum.)
4. As the VCs progress, look at prior knowledge to get a complete picture. (For instance if VC 1.4 clears someone, redo 1.2 analysis.)
5. Summarize conclusions.

“See motivations” is subjective. All objective information should be obtained first.
Prior knowledge should be the foundation as that can’t change.
This looks like you are trying to formulate what you do versus an actual process.
Anyone can do “see motivations” and get different results.

Then show me yours. Seeing the motivations of the scumteam is quite apparent, especially given what we know today.

If shelly confirms as town, then we know

every single wagon other than gamma was town

. That makes the motivation and position of the scumteam pretty clear.
If shelly is scum, then we know some town slots on the outside pushed a secondary wagon.

I am not sure how you get to the bold. I can’t show you mine until after work. Job comes first

[MathBlade]

Hmm. Was something like that pointed out in SR mafia? I’ve got severe deja vu here. The whole MB+Titus thing.

Can you unabbreviate please? It’s been a year since I have been on site. The closest that comes to mind is Shadowrun but Titus was the mod

[MathBlade]

mathblade can you summon shelly to answer my question for me

??? *confused* Not sure what you’re thinking I can do here.

brother?

I am Titus’s brother and I wouldn’t text/talk with her about a game

[MathBlade]

Post all VCs into the thread or personal private note topic as this is night phase. They need to be colored.
3. Look at each VC to see motivations. Ask questions assuming both scum v town or scum v scum. (Note: T v T would be asked but we know Gamma flipped scum.)
4. As the VCs progress, look at prior knowledge to get a complete picture. (For instance if VC 1.4 clears someone, redo 1.2 analysis.)
5. Summarize conclusions.

“See motivations” is subjective. All objective information should be obtained first.
Prior knowledge should be the foundation as that can’t change.
This looks like you are trying to formulate what you do versus an actual process.
Anyone can do “see motivations” and get different results.

Then show me yours. Seeing the motivations of the scumteam is quite apparent, especially given what we know today.

If shelly confirms as town, then we know

every single wagon other than gamma was town

. That makes the motivation and position of the scumteam pretty clear.
If shelly is scum, then we know some town slots on the outside pushed a secondary wagon.

I am not sure how you get to the bold. I can’t show you mine until after work. Job comes first

Sure.

The counterwagons were
Melanque - dead conftown
Ban Hydras - dead conftown
NorweiganboyEE - might as well be conftown, confirmed not army
shellyc - Slot of questionable but confirmable alignment

That means if shellyc is confirmed not army, then no counterwagon was army.

Which VC are you using as a point?

And assuming shelly is not army, that doesn’t mean gamma was tried to be saved. Game states like that hang and planned bus becomes a thing. Going from two to eight votes that fast generally indicates a planned bus only the tone doesn’t fit

[MathBlade]

how did i think you were shellys brother

I don’t know? Hopefully you can realign? Never claimed to be.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade’s been townie too. They can join the town block

I hate town blocks in practice as re-evaluation is rare. I do consider you a top tier town read for what it’s worth.

[MathBlade]

The tone supports more of the theory Titus is presenting but the VCA says something entirely.
I would have understood a gut read that was wrong but I think calling it VCA with the mistakes/leaps you’re making is wrong. I just don’t see that. The wagon data doesn’t match what you’re saying but the “vibe” I get matches some of it but vibe isn’t VCa

[MathBlade]

Here’s the thing, townMe isn’t going to live late anyways, because I can help confirm Plus’ actions giving us clears/guilties.

Scum have to deal with us.

Town Protectives should be on Plus.

And Titus probably realizes this and has to push me. I’ve become a giant threat to the scum team just based on my ability to obv town by play.

Could be wrong, Titus could be a puppet being used by scum, and the mastermind is elsewhere. If Titus is town, I believe you are being pocketed somewhere, but I’ll have to find out where.

Early guesses are Mastina, but i don’t wanna slide down that rabbit hole just yet

Town protectives if any shouldn’t take directions directly from anyone except maybe Norwegian. Much as I do town read you it is a read.

There’s a lot of claims out there to be sorted but right now we have de facto yours as the only proven one.

We need to see shelly respond then we can see if another although gut says Plus is truthtelling.

It’s waaay too early to be planning forward when the game doesn’t know which way is up.

[MathBlade]

Post all VCs into the thread or personal private note topic as this is night phase. They need to be colored.
3. Look at each VC to see motivations. Ask questions assuming both scum v town or scum v scum. (Note: T v T would be asked but we know Gamma flipped scum.)
4. As the VCs progress, look at prior knowledge to get a complete picture. (For instance if VC 1.4 clears someone, redo 1.2 analysis.)
5. Summarize conclusions.

“See motivations” is subjective. All objective information should be obtained first.
Prior knowledge should be the foundation as that can’t change.
This looks like you are trying to formulate what you do versus an actual process.
Anyone can do “see motivations” and get different results.

Then show me yours. Seeing the motivations of the scumteam is quite apparent, especially given what we know today.

If shelly confirms as town, then we know

every single wagon other than gamma was town

. That makes the motivation and position of the scumteam pretty clear.
If shelly is scum, then we know some town slots on the outside pushed a secondary wagon.

I am not sure how you get to the bold. I can’t show you mine until after work. Job comes first

Sure.

The counterwagons were
Melanque - dead conftown
Ban Hydras - dead conftown
NorweiganboyEE - might as well be conftown, confirmed not army
shellyc - Slot of questionable but confirmable alignment

That means if shellyc is confirmed not army, then no counterwagon was army.

Which VC are you using as a point?

And assuming shelly is not army, that doesn’t mean gamma was tried to be saved. Game states like that hang and planned bus becomes a thing. Going from two to eight votes that fast generally indicates a planned bus only the tone doesn’t fit

The tone doesn't fit because it wasn't a planned bus.

See that’s the thing. Wagon shifts almost never lie. Tone can lie or be misread. My gut says it wasn’t a planned bus but then that throws your hood is a masonry apart. The only way I can jive your theory of masonry with the known information is if it was a planned bus.

[MathBlade]

air cannot be "Cold" or "Hot" or even "Neutral Temperature"

vote count 1.3

Gamma Emerald (8):

Almost50, Ban Hydras, Nero Cain, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque, Titus, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE

Ban Hydras (3):

PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Christøpher

jjh927 (2):

samantha97, Bell

Menalque (2):

jjh927, Gamma Emerald

PlusJOYED (1):

TheGoldenParadox

Tayl0r Swift (1):

DrDolittle

Almost50 (1):

Vecna

TheGoldenParadox (1):

Morning Mage

Bell (1):

mastina

April Ludgate (1):

EchoVision

DiamondSentinel (1):

Tayl0r Swift

not voting (1):

April Ludgate,

with 23 alive, it takes 12 to Execute someones Ass. day 1 ends october 24th at 13:30 central US time; in (expired on 2020-10-24 13:30:00)

mod notes

• 831: i have not provided information about how roles were assigned this game. there have been past games in the series (such as the first one) where mafia were given a role and forced to assign it to a member of the town

[/area]

Take a look at here Mastina is a useless vote on bell after calling out gamma’s scum slip. She’s then on it at the next mod VC. If it’s not a planned bus then Mastina should be scrutinized. You’d end up with a very weird distribution of unassigned votes if we went with your theory.

Remember Civ how I told you beeboy was town and the VCs were some of the weirdest distributions ever? You said masons were your Achilles heel and according to you there’s two pairs. You have many people telling you you’re wrong. I suggest you restart

[MathBlade]

Here’s the thing, townMe isn’t going to live late anyways, because I can help confirm Plus’ actions giving us clears/guilties.

Scum have to deal with us.

Town Protectives should be on Plus.

And Titus probably realizes this and has to push me. I’ve become a giant threat to the scum team just based on my ability to obv town by play.

Could be wrong, Titus could be a puppet being used by scum, and the mastermind is elsewhere. If Titus is town, I believe you are being pocketed somewhere, but I’ll have to find out where.

Early guesses are Mastina, but i don’t wanna slide down that rabbit hole just yet

Town protectives if any shouldn’t take directions directly from anyone except maybe Norwegian. Much as I do town read you it is a read.

There’s a lot of claims out there to be sorted but right now we have de facto yours as the only proven one.

We need to see shelly respond then we can see if another although gut says Plus is truthtelling.

It’s waaay too early to be planning forward when the game doesn’t know which way is up.

I disagree. This is how you catch scum off guard and link up with other townies.

Plus and I linked up, as town/town here, which I think they are town here, so that’s the world I think we’re living in, it makes 100% sense considering we are both claimed.

So @Plus - before Day ends, we should figure out who we target to pigeon hole scum a bit.

Protectives should be on Plus.

@Math - Here’s the thing, at the moment, this is the best use of what we know. What we don’t know doesn’t necessarily matter in regards to that because if new information comes out that is a better use, we update.

We should be updating and reanalyzing ourselves every time new info is brought into the game.

I can agree with the last part but it’s imho poor form to assign protectives before exe is decided

[MathBlade]

Assuming you’re town rule of three implies one of Mastina/Nero/you is scum.

Rule of... huh? Are you trying to modWIFOM schadd?

Rule of three. Given a user generated list of players seemingly random/situational one of them more often than not is scum. Number goes up if the game is large.

[MathBlade]

air cannot be "Cold" or "Hot" or even "Neutral Temperature"

vote count 1.3

Gamma Emerald (8):

Almost50, Ban Hydras, Nero Cain, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque, Titus, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE

Ban Hydras (3):

PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Christøpher

jjh927 (2):

samantha97, Bell

Menalque (2):

jjh927, Gamma Emerald

PlusJOYED (1):

TheGoldenParadox

Tayl0r Swift (1):

DrDolittle

Almost50 (1):

Vecna

TheGoldenParadox (1):

Morning Mage

Bell (1):

mastina

April Ludgate (1):

EchoVision

DiamondSentinel (1):

Tayl0r Swift

not voting (1):

April Ludgate,

with 23 alive, it takes 12 to Execute someones Ass. day 1 ends october 24th at 13:30 central US time; in (expired on 2020-10-24 13:30:00)

mod notes

• 831: i have not provided information about how roles were assigned this game. there have been past games in the series (such as the first one) where mafia were given a role and forced to assign it to a member of the town

[/area]

Take a look at here Mastina is a useless vote on bell after calling out gamma’s scum slip. She’s then on it at the next mod VC. If it’s not a planned bus then Mastina should be scrutinized. You’d end up with a very weird distribution of unassigned votes if we went with your theory.

Remember Civ how I told you beeboy was town and the VCs were some of the weirdest distributions ever? You said masons were your Achilles heel and according to you there’s two pairs. You have many people telling you you’re wrong. I suggest you restart

mastina's literally confirmed to me. I don't mind restarting but every premise I have will have mastina town.

Go for it. Color in who you “confirmed” (in quotes because it’s confirmed to no one else) as one color, the second hood another color, and then mod confirmed town as green. This will help show any biases that may exist.

[MathBlade]

Town	Titus Plusjoyed Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain shellyc A50 Ban Hydras mastina Menalque
Above Null	NorweiganboyEE The Golden Paradox superbowl9 Bell
Null	DrDolittle something_smart Mathblade jjh927
Lean Scum	Chemist1422 April Ludgate Morning Mage Pickaxe Pete
Scum	Tayl0r Swift

A planned bus doesn't generate four counters. Scum would abandon the bus.

I have realistically 8 names that could be scum. I'm cutting off at above null right now. That needs to have 4 scum.

Can you look at your notes and see who overlaps?

Again still working. Can’t check until late tonight due to dr appt I am working from memory here. I will check my notes and compare against yours when yours takes into account mod confirmed info not before. A lot seems like supposition/theory and not VCA

[MathBlade]

the reason it's difficult to comprehend is that it means if you are town, a50, then we have six masons.

I’ve been seeing a lot of people say this. FFS WE ARE NOT MASONS. We are A THIRD PARTY. We are NOT conftown to you. I assume titus’ group is the same to whatever extent. Saying 6 masons is too many is #1 wayyyyyyy too simplified and #2 just wrong, a town-aligned 3P just does not play out the same way masons would.

Omg thank you.

This helps a lot.

Any chance you want to share your win con? If you have already apologies this game is insane

[MathBlade]

Here’s the thing, townMe isn’t going to live late anyways, because I can help confirm Plus’ actions giving us clears/guilties.

Scum have to deal with us.

Town Protectives should be on Plus.

And Titus probably realizes this and has to push me. I’ve become a giant threat to the scum team just based on my ability to obv town by play.

Could be wrong, Titus could be a puppet being used by scum, and the mastermind is elsewhere. If Titus is town, I believe you are being pocketed somewhere, but I’ll have to find out where.

Early guesses are Mastina, but i don’t wanna slide down that rabbit hole just yet

Town protectives if any shouldn’t take directions directly from anyone except maybe Norwegian. Much as I do town read you it is a read.

There’s a lot of claims out there to be sorted but right now we have de facto yours as the only proven one.

We need to see shelly respond then we can see if another although gut says Plus is truthtelling.

It’s waaay too early to be planning forward when the game doesn’t know which way is up.

I disagree. This is how you catch scum off guard and link up with other townies.

Plus and I linked up, as town/town here, which I think they are town here, so that’s the world I think we’re living in, it makes 100% sense considering we are both claimed.

So @Plus - before Day ends, we should figure out who we target to pigeon hole scum a bit.

Protectives should be on Plus.

@Math - Here’s the thing, at the moment, this is the best use of what we know. What we don’t know doesn’t necessarily matter in regards to that because if new information comes out that is a better use, we update.

We should be updating and reanalyzing ourselves every time new info is brought into the game.

I can agree with the last part but it’s imho poor form to assign protectives before exe is decided

Only on a mechanical level, not a sociological level.

Look at this way, no matter what, now scum are going to think about it. It adds another layer that they have to worry about. Like what if the Protectives someone who would listen to April here?

There’s always different ways to look at how certain things are used.

I’m definitely a performer type.

Like, my playstyle is essentially an Evil Puppet Master Jester type, clown suit and all, I do one thing while really doing another, if that makes sense.

Makes sense. Although with them having a loyal/disloyal modifier it kind of doesn’t.

Assume they are town and loyal and say they are visiting a scum. They get healed by a protective and live.

It becomes a false inno. This does feel a bit puppet mastery and I tend to play that way as town and scum in different ways. By introducing protectives on them you’re invalidating their check.

Right now we have a lot of shit flying around and having it make sense would be good.

[MathBlade]

There’s a lot of claims out there to be sorted but right now we have de facto yours as the only proven one.

How is April’s claim proven?

April claimed to motion detect Titus.
Titus confirmed by saying she neighborized A50.

[MathBlade]

the reason it's difficult to comprehend is that it means if you are town, a50, then we have six masons.

I’ve been seeing a lot of people say this. FFS WE ARE NOT MASONS. We are A THIRD PARTY. We are NOT conftown to you. I assume titus’ group is the same to whatever extent. Saying 6 masons is too many is #1 wayyyyyyy too simplified and #2 just wrong, a town-aligned 3P just does not play out the same way masons would.

Omg thank you.

This helps a lot.

Any chance you want to share your win con? If you have already apologies this game is insane

Their claimed wincon is that they win if town wins.

That’s town. Usually 3P has town+. Think the Steven universe game. There was town and town+

[MathBlade]

Here’s the thing, townMe isn’t going to live late anyways, because I can help confirm Plus’ actions giving us clears/guilties.

Scum have to deal with us.

Town Protectives should be on Plus.

And Titus probably realizes this and has to push me. I’ve become a giant threat to the scum team just based on my ability to obv town by play.

Could be wrong, Titus could be a puppet being used by scum, and the mastermind is elsewhere. If Titus is town, I believe you are being pocketed somewhere, but I’ll have to find out where.

Early guesses are Mastina, but i don’t wanna slide down that rabbit hole just yet

Town protectives if any shouldn’t take directions directly from anyone except maybe Norwegian. Much as I do town read you it is a read.

There’s a lot of claims out there to be sorted but right now we have de facto yours as the only proven one.

We need to see shelly respond then we can see if another although gut says Plus is truthtelling.

It’s waaay too early to be planning forward when the game doesn’t know which way is up.

I disagree. This is how you catch scum off guard and link up with other townies.

Plus and I linked up, as town/town here, which I think they are town here, so that’s the world I think we’re living in, it makes 100% sense considering we are both claimed.

So @Plus - before Day ends, we should figure out who we target to pigeon hole scum a bit.

Protectives should be on Plus.

@Math - Here’s the thing, at the moment, this is the best use of what we know. What we don’t know doesn’t necessarily matter in regards to that because if new information comes out that is a better use, we update.

We should be updating and reanalyzing ourselves every time new info is brought into the game.

I can agree with the last part but it’s imho poor form to assign protectives before exe is decided

Only on a mechanical level, not a sociological level.

Look at this way, no matter what, now scum are going to think about it. It adds another layer that they have to worry about. Like what if the Protectives someone who would listen to April here?

There’s always different ways to look at how certain things are used.

I’m definitely a performer type.

Like, my playstyle is essentially an Evil Puppet Master Jester type, clown suit and all, I do one thing while really doing another, if that makes sense.

Makes sense. Although with them having a loyal/disloyal modifier it kind of doesn’t.

Assume they are town and loyal and say they are visiting a scum. They get healed by a protective and live.

It becomes a false inno. This does feel a bit puppet mastery and I tend to play that way as town and scum in different ways. By introducing protectives on them you’re invalidating their check.

Right now we have a lot of shit flying around and having it make sense would be good.

Plus Loyal targets Player Y
I motion detector Player 1.

If Player Y is scum, Plus’s role won’t go through, and I can possibly get a “no motion detected”

However, scum can counter this because they can have that player make the kill, if anything, but it forces that player into an action, which is at minimum, beneficial.

There’s something you’re not getting here. I think it is anti town to say and puts town in a weak position if I am right about Plus. I need to focus on getting reads rather than being lost in semantics. Agree to disagree and move on?

[MathBlade]

There’s a lot of claims out there to be sorted but right now we have de facto yours as the only proven one.

How is April’s claim proven?

April claimed to motion detect Titus.
Titus confirmed by saying she neighborized A50.

That’s soft no?

Not sure how you get no out of that.

Someone made a claim. Person confirmed it true.

[MathBlade]

And pi for the love of god can you use spoilers

Sorry that’s really hard on my phone.

[MathBlade]

I can compromise on Smart for now.

At least I don’t have a townread on them and VCA doesn’t say their probably town.

VOTE: Something Smart

[MathBlade]

@Superbowl9, Sorry. I'll try to be more readable. Why is it unreadable?

The sheer amount of content, some relevant/solvey, some AI, is a lot especially with these multiquote walls, pretty sure yall just put up ~10 pages to tell us.... what exactly?
Also while I have your ear wanna remind you and bro to try to use alternatives to the L-word

I have been trying to use execution. Is that not the standard word? If not what do you recommend?

[MathBlade]

Not sure how you get no out of that.

Someone made a claim. Person confirmed it true.

No as in “that’s a soft confirm right”
I don’t think thats any more confirmed than the 6 “mason” roles

Lol 6 mason is a claim. Titus said 6 mason. You say you’re 3P.

So either you’re town plus or 3P 3P or scum plus (unlikely).

I think there’s something incorrect somewhere and you being 3P might be some of it.

[MathBlade]

@Math - I’m not missing it, I just don’t believe that’s always the case in regards to it being anti town. I’m aware people perceive it as anti-town, but if someone thinks townMe’s going to do something that inherently goes against chances with no possible reward making it worth the trouble? Nah.

Different working threads, different traps to put out. I tend to use charisma however as a main part of playstyle, as it counters different types of scum players.

I get you’re saying you’re awesome and you have a plan April. Until I understand it I can’t discuss it and if what I have seen is -EV so I can’t in good faith agree. It might be good. I just don’t know jack. I think this is circles. You’re going to be -EV and I can’t stop that but I really think it’s stupid.

[MathBlade]

Assume they are town and loyal and say they are visiting a scum. They get healed by a protective and live.

your thinking of the weak modifier. I'm not weak.

In the distance a sigh can be heard.
Airplane carrying the point

You

Moving on

[MathBlade]

What makes you think 3P is not likely when we have a 3P scumteam???? None of us are masons. We use masons because it is an easy turn of phrase that has now because confusing. We are 3P with town’s wincon. Titus I can’t speak for but I highly doubt they are masons

Confused.

3P with town wincon = town plus. You have town wincon plus something else.

Otherwise you’re just town not 3P.

The distinction exists for a reason.

What makes you say a 3P scum team exists? This could be an SK (not a team, jjh top theory if true) multiball or a vig

Like help me connect your dots here

[MathBlade]

@Math - I’m not missing it, I just don’t believe that’s always the case in regards to it being anti town. I’m aware people perceive it as anti-town, but if someone thinks townMe’s going to do something that inherently goes against chances with no possible reward making it worth the trouble? Nah.

Different working threads, different traps to put out. I tend to use charisma however as a main part of playstyle, as it counters different types of scum players.

I get you’re saying you’re awesome and you have a plan April. Until I understand it I can’t discuss it and if what I have seen is -EV so I can’t in good faith agree. It might be good. I just don’t know jack. I think this is circles. You’re going to be -EV and I can’t stop that but I really think it’s stupid.

It could be a skill thing.

People try it untrained, which, I mean, you gotta train somehow.

I would actually say Titus is rather gambity as well.
Something Smart is a strong gambiter.

I use mystery, intrigue, and false suspicion to my advantage because I got the gift of gab to talk myself out of it if need be.

Just gotta use what’s good for you. You aren’t gonna have a Charizard shooting a Hydro Pump.

Gambits are things. And I think that’s a Pokémon reference and Charizard is a fire pokemon ? Sorry an ex of mine was a Pokémon player and I remember squat. You’re saying a lot of words here trying to sell me on a plan when I feel like I am drowning here. Stop selling me you’re awesome Boonskiies I am aware of that. Help me get caught up if you want me to worship a Boonskiies plan

[MathBlade]

@Chemist

Yes. That's what I do for all my VCAs. I copy VCs and replace subs. Why?

you said you wanted to question me about sheeping plusjoy onto BH but you haven't done anything to that end

that and you using the wrong pronouns clued me in on that so i figured i should bring it up for clarification

I apologize for using he pronouns.

I didn't have my notes in front of me. But since you're here, why did you sheep Plusjoy onto BH?

@Plusjoyed,

There are two masonries. Each has 3. Almost50 + superbowl + ?. Then there's Titus, Nero, and mastina.
I neighborized A50.

Superbowl9 said not a mason but 3P.

Please stop using masons. It’s confusing AF.

[MathBlade]

It probably is just them in a neighborhood trying to protect themselves a few days.

It probably means Mastina convinced Titus to think it’s a good idea to mason claim, but probably in a way where Titus thinks they came up with it, and they might have, but it feels very Mastina fueled onto Titus town. Especially after that Menalque death. Menalque death then Titus coming after me, that’s a strong scum play by Mastina. Her and I are gonna be serving it out on the tennis courts back and forth this game if she’s scum. So that’s where tinfoil me’s at right now.

I don’t think they’re masons.

I can tinfoil Mastina scum considering gamma scum.

However I think we need to focus on who is not talking here.

Smart popped in and then disappeared without commenting anything useful. I think Smart is a good compromise but we don’t execute until shelly is resolved

[MathBlade]

What makes you think 3P is not likely when we have a 3P scumteam???? None of us are masons. We use masons because it is an easy turn of phrase that has now because confusing. We are 3P with town’s wincon. Titus I can’t speak for but I highly doubt they are masons

Confused.

3P with town wincon = town plus. You have town wincon plus something else.

Otherwise you’re just town not 3P.

The distinction exists for a reason.

What makes you say a 3P scum team exists? This could be an SK (not a team, jjh top theory if true) multiball or a vig

Like help me connect your dots here

I will give you an ELI5 because you do seem very confused. Me, A50, and someone else are goliath gouthwits health interns. This is NOT town, it is a 3P which flips and returns investigations as our 3P (GGHI). Our win condition is the same as town’s, we win when all threats to town are eliminated. Thus we are FUNCTIONALLY miller masons, which is why that’s what A50 claimed.

Gamma flipped as a NON town aligned 3P (which he claimed was scum, while also saying there may be multiball. You can look at this as WIFOM if you want). Cop investigation checked against this non-town 3P.

Titus is apparently 3P neighborizer with Nero and mastina who recruited A50. A50 now has access to both PTs and is trying to sort through this whole mess. Do you understand?

Partially. In my experience I don’t recall just Miller masons. It’s always been Miller masons plus. Stevens Universe IIRC was town win plus one regular town alive.

You say Gamma flipped non town aligned 3P. What makes you say 3P and not scum? I don’t follow this. There was a public cop saying someone is not of Gamma’s alignment. Are you suggesting Gamma was 3P and not scum and therefore no scum are dead?

Then Titus is another 3P?

That’s an awful lot of 3P claims.

[MathBlade]

I'm logging out so I don't bring out drunk Titus.

Math, can you stop being obtuse or take a break and see what people are doing?

I can take a break.
Obtuse is not just an on off switch.

From what it sounds like there’s 6 masons then no masons
Then we’re all 3P
No one is 3P
We have a scum execution but we don’t
This is insane.

[MathBlade]

I mean tbf this is one case where revisionism/misunderstanding is understandable. She caught up on >3000 posts and apparently doesn’t even know who the NKs were

I feel like tears reading this. I am somewhere around 80 pages behind and no one answers simple questions with direct answers.

[MathBlade]

Actually if we all claim then I'll be able to know the setup so I think we should all claim

You heard it here, folks.

They want it, so I’ll push it.

Mass claim time. Day 2 mass claim always the best.

https://tenor.com/1G4e.gif

[MathBlade]

Seeing how well tones coming across here. Don’t mind me, experimental test.

How’s this for tones? I was reading until 1 am. Dr appt at 8:30 back home. Done by 11 home by 12. I literally have zero fucks to give. Just because you dropped trousers doesn’t mean everyone else should. I am not interested in figuring out your tone. I am more interested in stopping the bleeding that I think is happening.

[MathBlade]

Given a user generated list of players seemingly random/situational one of them more often than not is scum.

Is this based on something more than statistics?

(Also, the list wasn't user-generated, it was mod-generated.)

It’s just a usual thing that happens. I don’t have stats on how usual. Rule of three is meant as a launch pad to start/question not 100% lock

[MathBlade]

It’s just a usual thing that happens. I don’t have stats on how usual.

Meh it feels random to me.

But it's moot, because they're masons (?).

They’re not mason mason not mason 3P not 3P town not town

^^ this is not a claim of accuracy it’s my understanding of their claim

[MathBlade]

Partially. In my experience I don’t recall just Miller masons. It’s always been Miller masons plus. Stevens Universe IIRC was town win plus one regular town alive.

Stop thinking SU and start thinking Gitsou. We're a different Town faction. You are West and we are North. SAME WIN CON. Got it?

I think so. Just this game. It hurts.

[MathBlade]

wish shelly was here and explicit about if anything happened to her last night

Peddit why are you hiding them I don't understand.

She did a big outdated wall and said be back later.

Useless imho

[MathBlade]

I'd like to work with them, but I need them to share their wincon
peddit: so Titus, when recruiting A50, you just gained A50. A50 has 2 partners and didn't neighborize?

To clarify we (GGHI) are not neighborizers, we are unpowered besides our PT. It’s titus’ group that neighborized 1 of our members

I spent the whole of D1 trying to WIFOM Scum about this very detail. Today, in the new hood, I spoke NOTHING about us having additional abilities. WHY would you out that we have no additional abilities here?? WHY?

More wifom.

With how things have gone I am wondering how many players would pass a sobriety test at this point. Work is done in an hour or two. Then I will get Titus what I owe her.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: MainVC uncolored because mobile

air cannot be "Cold" or "Hot" or even "Neutral Temperature"

vote count 1.3

Gamma Emerald (8):

Almost50, Ban Hydras, Nero Cain, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque, Titus, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE

Ban Hydras (3):

PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Christøpher

jjh927 (2):

samantha97, Bell

Menalque (2):

jjh927, Gamma Emerald

PlusJOYED (1):

TheGoldenParadox

Tayl0r Swift (1):

DrDolittle

Almost50 (1):

Vecna

TheGoldenParadox (1):

Morning Mage

Bell (1):

mastina

April Ludgate (1):

EchoVision

DiamondSentinel (1):

Tayl0r Swift

not voting (1):

April Ludgate,

with 23 alive, it takes 12 to Execute someones Ass. day 1 ends october 24th at 13:30 central US time; in (expired on 2020-10-24 13:30:00)

mod notes

• 831: i have not provided information about how roles were assigned this game. there have been past games in the series (such as the first one) where mafia were given a role and forced to assign it to a member of the town

[/area]

So let’s start from here with what we know:

Gamma flipped Army. Assuming army scum. That’s the assumption I was working under last night. Combined with the cop Army is probably scum. Without this assumption is VCA useless as we don’t have a useful flip.

For the purposes of this “NT” is anything not town. This also will assume alignment claims other than town are honest.

Almost50 is 3P claim
Ban Hydras was town.
Nero is a 3P claim because Titus says so if I follow
Menalque was town.
Titus is claimed 3P.
Superbowl is claimed 3P
Norwegian is not Army.

This means the only possible army player on that wagon is Pickaxe Pete.

However this does also match the wagonomics I had earlier that NT were likely the main driver. It was just not the same alignment as gamma.

Ban all hydras has at most three people on it. Assume for a moment Army has a minimum of four members. It’s unlikely they all stack on a “counter wagon”. Therefore by necessity scum would be scattered.

Ban hydras dying also doesn’t make sense as a scum kill because this relies on the idea hydras was a counter wagon.

Based on what I have limited read day one Menal makes more sense as a vig shot because they seemed scummy to me. I took a brief look at their iso last night and their confidence of not dying is weird.

When I was reading Ban All Hydras they seemed a lot more a joking account and blending in and didn’t really follow what was going on with their wagon.

The main question is why the 3Ps gathered on Gamma and why Mastina hopped on later and who moved and why.

This was pretty much a done deal by this point from the thread vibe.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: followupVC not colored mobile

breaking a bone is basically nothing

vote count 1.4

Gamma Emerald (8):

Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque, Titus, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE, mastina, Morning Mage

Ban Hydras (6):

PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Christøpher, Nero Cain, samantha97, Gamma Emerald

NorwegianboyEE (3):

Almost50, DrDolittle, TheGoldenParadox

Menalque (1):

jjh927

Almost50 (1):

Vecna

April Ludgate (1):

EchoVision

DiamondSentinel (1):

Tayl0r Swift

not voting (2):

April Ludgate, Bell

with 23 alive, it takes 12 to Execute someones Ass. day 1 ends october 24th at 13:30 central US time; in (expired on 2020-10-24 13:30:00)

mod notes

• Christøpher has requested replacement
  
• 1615: good

[/area]

Almost50 a 3P leaves
Nero leaves

Mastina and Morning Mage enter the wagon.

This leaves Morning Mage and Pickaxe Pete as only potential army on the wagon.

On the Ban all hydras wagon added Nero Sam and GE
Nero is 3P who floated between the wagons
GE was voting the biggest wagon other than himself.

So we’re left with Plus DS Christopher (who I think is Chemist) and Samantha (scully I think)

Rule of three says there’s likely a scum somewhere in this list.

However again none of these were really pushing the wagons iirc (please correct me if I am wrong)
Based on tone this didn’t seem like a scum driven wagon either.

So this game seems to be driven by NT players.

This jives with my 2-8 out of no where scum bus just it was NT.

[MathBlade]

The main question is why the 3Ps gathered on Gamma and why Mastina hopped on later and who moved and why.

Why is this even a question?

If I believe both of our groups are against scum. So if we are against them why doesn't it make sense that we'd vote them?

I am saying you’re 3P. I understand the claim. I just am not sure I buy it. If you’re 3P aligned with town building the town should be your goal. I am just really suspicious that a majority of the 3P claims were on the wagon.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade, You're running yourself ragged trying to avoid the conclusion scum were shopping for a counterwagon and failed.

Logically, gamma could not have been a planned bus because only Pickaxe Pete could be early army on the wagon.

If you read my post carefully I agree, planned bus was impossible based on claims. However I don’t see the evidence of a scum aiming for a counter wagon. I looked at the people on the wagon and a majority of the scum would have to be on Ban All Hydras.

I just don’t see that as viable based on my read.

[MathBlade]

This reads as scum were inactive /useless at the time of the gamma wagon. Not a counter wagon.

[MathBlade]

I also object to the classification “running ragged” to avoid the conclusion.

None of that is opinion except how I processed the data. The fact the wagon was 3P driven if 3P claims are true.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade, You're running yourself ragged trying to avoid the conclusion scum were shopping for a counterwagon and failed.

Logically, gamma could not have been a planned bus because only Pickaxe Pete could be early army on the wagon.

If you read my post carefully I agree, planned bus was impossible based on claims. However I don’t see the evidence of a scum aiming for a counter wagon. I looked at the people on the wagon and a majority of the scum would have to be on Ban All Hydras.

I just don’t see that as viable based on my read.

That's also incorrect. Scum weren't sitting on one counterwagon alone, given the multitude that sprung up.

A multitude didnt spring up. They were there already.

Check the VC again Titus. Scum were inactive/ineffective.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade, You're running yourself ragged trying to avoid the conclusion scum were shopping for a counterwagon and failed.

Logically, gamma could not have been a planned bus because only Pickaxe Pete could be early army on the wagon.

If you read my post carefully I agree, planned bus was impossible based on claims. However I don’t see the evidence of a scum aiming for a counter wagon. I looked at the people on the wagon and a majority of the scum would have to be on Ban All Hydras.

I just don’t see that as viable based on my read.

That's also incorrect. Scum weren't sitting on one counterwagon alone, given the multitude that sprung up.

A multitude didnt spring up. They were there already.

Check the VC again Titus. Scum were inactive/ineffective.

Scum were. Whenever they'd get on a counterwagon, it died most likely. Scum tried to get counters but town (or town plus 3p if semantic) had synergized.

Now, rather than bicker about theory, let's talk about reads.

I will agree you make a decent point to bump down Pickaxe Pete though.

My reads are based on theory. So if you don’t understand my theory you won’t understand my reads. Because you’ve got a lot of people as scum the VCA doesn’t support. If you assume Pickaxe Pete is scum that’s in the inactive/ineffective column not the shopping for counter wagon as Pete’s never moved.

I kinda think I am getting into the groove.

[MathBlade]

i think the SS wagon (other than the scumslip) is about as good as the gamma wagon yesterday. that is to say, i think its not good. and how often do scumslips actually come from scum?

Can you clarify this? I read it multple times and it sounds like you're implying the Gamma wagon wasn't good.

it hit scum (probably?). in that sense it was good. but the wagon itself i thought was bad at the time. i never understood why it was so quick to form, why there were no counterwagons, except on BH who was even townier, or what the reasons for the wagon were to begin with.

I think you and I have a different standard for counterwagons.

This post comes from someone who recognizes they are on the outside.

Talk to me about your reads a bit. Who do you want to eliminate (aside from shellyc)?

Something Smart, maaaybe Golden Paradox but that one is a stretch. I mainly have a lot of townreads atm.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade:
What theory?
I have like 4 empirical bits of data that are reliable and unlikely to change but a theory seems a little far off.

Not a theory but wagon theory.

The wagon theory says scum were ineffective/useless and not pushing the counter wagon.

Titus and I deviate here. I am guessing it’s because she’s 3P and wants to control it like she is town. So she’s trying to label herself as town to reach the conclusion she did. However as she’s claimed 3P the data doesn’t support it. It would maybe be a possibility if she was town but not 3P.

[MathBlade]

Town	Titus Plusjoyed Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain shellyc A50 Ban Hydras mastina Menalque
Above Null	NorweiganboyEE The Golden Paradox superbowl9 Bell
Null	DrDolittle something_smart Mathblade jjh927
Lean Scum	Chemist1422 April Ludgate Morning Mage Pickaxe Pete
Scum	Tayl0r Swift

A planned bus doesn't generate four counters. Scum would abandon the bus.

I have realistically 8 names that could be scum. I'm cutting off at above null right now. That needs to have 4 scum.

Can you look at your notes and see who overlaps?

@Math, Pete couldn't move to a counter without losing the towncred.

Second, if scum are in the ineffectives...that points to SS, jjh... DDL...and you.

I am pretty sure Pickaxe moves to Taylor level based on today's developments.

First sentence: If Pickaxe is scum yes. Then he couldn’t move, making him ineffective.
Second sentence: That’s what the wagon theory indicates yes. It also indicates about 10 other players (more or less). I don’t change a theory because it would make me look better.

The data says what it does. This wagon data will hopefully exonerate me as imho it should.

[MathBlade]

What are the premises or hypotheses of wagon theory that allow for a conclusion?

Premise A) Everyone who has flipped is flipped accurately aka not bastard.
Premise B) Anyone who claims not town is to be assumed to tell the truth.
Premise C) Find remaining players. If remaining players cannot reach the min possible scum percentage the wagon cannot be scum driven. Assume min 4. 4/20 = 20%. That means of 8 people need at least two scum to be scum driven. This is impossible where as on Ban All Hydras it is improbable but possible.
Premise D) If wagon is not scum driven cannot be a planned bus.
Premise E) If wagon is not scum driven drivers are those with the biggest alignment amount. Clearly 3P.

[MathBlade]

@Math,

So a team of Pickaxe Pete, Chemist, + ddl, jjh, ss is your solve?

I don’t have a solve. I just started getting into the groove after the crazy shenanigans. I am using wagon theory to inform me who the likely scum are in combination with reads. I don’t know what a good team size is because of the three p claims so my usual methods won’t work.

[MathBlade]

What are the premises or hypotheses of wagon theory that allow for a conclusion?

Premise A) Everyone who has flipped is flipped accurately aka not bastard.
Premise B) Anyone who claims not town is to be assumed to tell the truth.
Premise C) Find remaining players. If remaining players cannot reach the min possible scum percentage the wagon cannot be scum driven. Assume min 4. 4/20 = 20%. That means of 8 people need at least two scum to be scum driven. This is impossible where as on Ban All Hydras it is improbable but possible.
Premise D) If wagon is not scum driven cannot be a planned bus.
Premise E) If wagon is not scum driven drivers are those with the biggest alignment amount. Clearly 3P.

*blinks*

None of this makes sense. Scum driven isn't based on hard and fast numbers but momentum.

To get momentum you need numbers and activity. It’s not a hard and fast but it is a good rule. Eg 45 player wagon has three scum it can’t be scum driven.

[MathBlade]

@Math,

So a team of Pickaxe Pete, Chemist, + ddl, jjh, ss is your solve?

I don’t have a solve. I just started getting into the groove after the crazy shenanigans. I am using wagon theory to inform me who the likely scum are in combination with reads. I don’t know what a good team size is because of the three p claims so my usual methods won’t work.

Ok. Let's suppose you had to name 5 or 6 scum, not 3p, who would they be? For sake of argument, scum = army = what gamma flipped.

For sake of argument
20 alive can’t name any 3P claims so minus 6 is 14. Minus me is 13.
Remove April and Plus who I townread and it becomes down to 10.

Hitting 5/6 scum in that list gives me about 50% odds of picking a scum so I would stick with my top scumreads. I don’t need a solve in that scenario.

[MathBlade]

Thanks blade. I'll think about that.

This is sus.
This feels like sheep.

[MathBlade]

@Math,

So a team of Pickaxe Pete, Chemist, + ddl, jjh, ss is your solve?

I don’t have a solve. I just started getting into the groove after the crazy shenanigans. I am using wagon theory to inform me who the likely scum are in combination with reads. I don’t know what a good team size is because of the three p claims so my usual methods won’t work.

Ok. Let's suppose you had to name 5 or 6 scum, not 3p, who would they be? For sake of argument, scum = army = what gamma flipped.

For sake of argument
20 alive can’t name any 3P claims so minus 6 is 14. Minus me is 13.
Remove April and Plus who I townread and it becomes down to 10.

Hitting 5/6 scum in that list gives me about 50% odds of picking a scum so I would stick with my top scumreads. I don’t need a solve in that scenario.

I'm trying not to get bogged down in theory to get a simple question answered. This frustration is why I want to lynch you every game.

Who is group scum and why?

Again. I am not operating like you are this game.

I like JJH for SK as I have mentioned because of theory.
Something smart pings me wrong.
One of plus/Shelly likely scum due to mechanics.

There isn’t enough relational integration because of the spam and BS and 3P driven wagons to sort it out and get a team like I usually do. I am better at noticing this stuff in games like Gistou because I held enough of the cards to make that determination. I don’t have that here.

[MathBlade]

I don’t know how many scum Army has.
I don’t know whether this is multiball or SK. (SK is my hunch)
I don’t know whether you’re a town aligned 3P or not. (Sorry you and A50 can claim whatever you want but I don’t buy it)

Since I don’t know enough about the setup and people’s motives I can’t then put an individual read on them. Eg I was right to call Mastina not town because of the gamma issue but I was wrong to call her group scum assuming the situation holds.

I don’t know enough to know motives so I look for people who are genuine and not manipulative and they get a town read.

Then wagon theory to build my acceptable execution pool and gut the rest.

Unless some divine magical fairy tells me the setup or I get some information in a really impractical way I don’t see me doing anything besides town hunting and blocking and eliminating the rest because I can’t see the undercurrent.

[MathBlade]

I like JJH for SK as I have mentioned because of theory

ehhhhhhhhhh

true, jjh isn't really doing anying and just sitting there but y is he an sk and not group scum?

Ascetic is a common SK claim/mod.

He could be group scum. Just playing odds.

[MathBlade]

titus and mathblade, we get that you are siblings engaged in a rivalry and you always scumread each other and youre both very proud of your VCA, but i think its starting to bog the game down. can we look at whos scum rather than try to figure out whos better at finding scum? lets lunch some scum and you can have this contest in postgame.

I was trying to get at Mathblade's scumreads and away from VCA.

His response was all about VCA. I'm trying here.

P.S. I think Pickaxe/Chemist/SS nets at least two scum.

Great VCA disagrees with you.

So I wouldn’t follow that conclusion but would exe SS based on my gut.

[MathBlade]

titus and mathblade, we get that you are siblings engaged in a rivalry and you always scumread each other and youre both very proud of your VCA, but i think its starting to bog the game down. can we look at whos scum rather than try to figure out whos better at finding scum? lets lunch some scum and you can have this contest in postgame.

I was trying to get at Mathblade's scumreads and away from VCA.

His response was all about VCA. I'm trying here.

P.S. I think Pickaxe/Chemist/SS nets at least two scum.

It’s going to stay VCA and gut until I have info to act on. I get what Taylor is trying to do to have us not dominate the thread but I can’t like not answer a question you’ve asked me. I get you don’t like my strategy. You as 3P with whatever win con have more info than I do. You have three brains to pick.

I have had maybe 24 hours. Expecting a solve while I am integrating into the game is unreasonable Titus.

[MathBlade]

math, you are town reading al of chemist, tgp and DS right?

No. DS/Chemist are Townier than TGP but I wouldn’t call them townreads.

[MathBlade]

Thanks blade. I'll think about that.

This is sus.
This feels like sheep.

? I'm definitely not sheeping that reasoning. I don't know you or how accurate you are as a player or whether your method even works or is better than random.

Oh I took it as “I’ll think about it and use it” was how I read the implication and therefore was sus.

[MathBlade]

Yes. You are. Without VCA and/or gut I have nothing. Too bad.

Should we? I don’t know. I know I would rather execute SS or shelly.

Again you’re using characterizing words like “so fast”. I am not shooting you down. I disagreed with you. That isn’t “shooting you down so fast”. This isn’t about control. The fact you think it is is telling. I replaced in, looked at things with a fresh perspective and have the conclusions I do. These are initial reads. I stated an opinion.

We have at least half of the player base with their pants down so my main focus is resolving claims while keeping pants on. A game solve is a bit more of a luxury compared to preventing scum from having a map to kill us.

[MathBlade]

No. DS/Chemist are Townier than TGP but I wouldn’t call them townreads.

im hard skimming ur posts so correct me here if I'm wrong but didn't you argue that if there's scum on Gamma it was PP?

It wasn’t an argument that he was scum.
It was an argument of if there was scum it’s Pickaxe.

Think like Civ. I got burned making assumptions that a scum had to be on the wagon. Everyone else was either flipped town or claimed 3P.

[MathBlade]

Shellyc we could still use you to claim if you were visited.

@Math,

Until you respectfully have a theory or can engage in constructive dialog, please listen more so you can. I see no further point in discussing with you right now.

I am pretty sure that I can engage in hunting and ascertain whether my gut is right while listening. I really don’t like that you’re trying to tell me to shut up here. I just want to interact with people.

Then when I do so you ask me imho stupid questions that you want to hear what you want to hear. Then you say shut the f up when it wasn’t what you want.

I have to talk to get reads when I am going by gut Titus.

I can easily choose not to talk to you if you like but I will ask questions of others.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: followupVC not colored mobile

breaking a bone is basically nothing

vote count 1.4

Gamma Emerald (8):

Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete, Menalque, Titus, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE, mastina, Morning Mage

Ban Hydras (6):

PlusJOYED, DiamondSentinel, Christøpher, Nero Cain, samantha97, Gamma Emerald

NorwegianboyEE (3):

Almost50, DrDolittle, TheGoldenParadox

Menalque (1):

jjh927

Almost50 (1):

Vecna

April Ludgate (1):

EchoVision

DiamondSentinel (1):

Tayl0r Swift

not voting (2):

April Ludgate, Bell

with 23 alive, it takes 12 to Execute someones Ass. day 1 ends october 24th at 13:30 central US time; in (expired on 2020-10-24 13:30:00)

mod notes

• Christøpher has requested replacement
  
• 1615: good

[/area]

Almost50 a 3P leaves
Nero leaves

Mastina and Morning Mage enter the wagon.

This leaves Morning Mage and Pickaxe Pete as only potential army on the wagon.

On the Ban all hydras wagon added Nero Sam and GE
Nero is 3P who floated between the wagons
GE was voting the biggest wagon other than himself.

So we’re left with Plus DS Christopher (who I think is Chemist) and Samantha (scully I think)

Rule of three says there’s likely a scum somewhere in this list.

However again none of these were really pushing the wagons iirc (please correct me if I am wrong)
Based on tone this didn’t seem like a scum driven wagon either.

So this game seems to be driven by NT players.

This jives with my 2-8 out of no where scum bus just it was NT.

@Nero you mean here? Again it’s a factual statement that if scum were on the wagon it’s Pete or Morning Mage. I don’t see where you get three from. Norwegian is conf not scum, assuming Army = scum

[MathBlade]

So Nero's in that 3p block? Or are they in Titus' presumed masonry?

Either way, I'm not liking their tone, but I might need to reevaluate.

Nero’s in Titus’s 3P hood and hasn’t rebuked the claim that says Titus+Mastina + Nero are all the same 3P

[MathBlade]

i'm a hard claimed 3p but you need to "reevaluate"? I call bullshit.

Titus, Mastina, and I are the same alignment. You either think we are doing a really really stupid gambit and we are all kings army pretending to be 3p or we are just all 3p and scum is getting owned.

There’s always the theory I have been kicking around that army is also 3P but op 3P and there is no group scum. This one is very moonlogicky though.

[MathBlade]

@Nero you mean here? Again it’s a factual statement that if scum were on the wagon it’s Pete or Morning Mage. I don’t see where you get three from. Norwegian is conf not scum, assuming Army = scum

oh, we were talking about different vc's. I was talking about how DS, chemist and tgp were on the tail end of the wagon Gamma wagon and if there's scum on it they'd be on the tail end.

Haven’t read that far. As I said earlier I have read where I read to.

I did not get that far. So yes they’re on the end of the wagon. I am assuming that is accurate. I don’t subscribe to a lot of scum dog piling on the end as a general principle but I would need to see the context. Especially assuming the point of 8v6 if memory serves they weren’t on Ban All Hydras. I haven’t read but my gut says that you’re just saying that because end therefore scum read. It seems scummy but without context that may not be a read

[MathBlade]

Do you claim town shelly?

[MathBlade]

I think my action on shelly didn't go through but only she knows for sure. I need a harf confirmation or deconfirmation

ok so guessing loyal FN / loud visitor

you were blocked, or I was stopped
im not ascetic at all

He claimed disloyal or loyal something.
If he's disloyal, then the action on you fails if you're town.
If he's loyal, the action fails if you're scum.

We likely have limited roleblockers, given gamma's alien flip. So whatever PlusJOYED got as a result is likely accurate.

This assumes Plus is town.

Don’t get me wrong, I townread Plus.

But why are you only considering the Plus = town option?

[MathBlade]

ok shelly is conf town
i checked shelly cuz paranoia but mainly vca from her predecessor

So to be clear you’re claiming town and not 3P as well?

[MathBlade]

ok shelly is conf town
i checked shelly cuz paranoia but mainly vca from her predecessor

This isn’t conf town.

This is assuming you are town, Shelley is town or made the 50/50 guess correctly with her teammates. It’s also a lot easier to lie and say she got nothing than something.

[MathBlade]

There’s always the theory I have been kicking around that army is also 3P but op 3P and there is no group scum.

How is that different from groupscum lol

Think Titus’s mass effect game

There was a main town of humans but then there was a circular alignment grid of who you could win with.

It could be something like group 3P #1 wins with town and 3
Group 3P #3 wins with town and 1
Group 2 wins with parity of town and ignores 3P

Town wins when all of group 2 is gone

But there would be a very narrow set of town forcing the 3Ps to hunt each other or group 2 (in this case Army) wins because all the 3P are outed.

None of those are traditional scum per se but

[MathBlade]

23 scum means minimum 12 town.
Assume all 3P claims are 3P that means 18 total.
23 at start means 4 scum + SK or 5 scum and town Vig
Or
We’re looking at 3P go round and round alignment go round

[MathBlade]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

Almost50 did. At least we got a clear from it.

they claimed miller mason thats a joke claim

Almost50 is in a 3P hood with Super Bowl + 1
Almost50 claims to win with town similar to Titus’s claim.

[MathBlade]

idrt thats a scumslip from S_S, wrong wincon wording can be from town
90% of "scumslips" come from town btw

Meh I scumread SS outside of the “scum slip”. So I am cool with them being the exe today

[MathBlade]

23 scum means minimum 12 town.
Assume all 3P claims are 3P that means 18 total.
23 at start means 4 scum + SK or 5 scum and town Vig
Or
We’re looking at 3P go round and round alignment go round

5 scum and a vig is my bet. It fits with Gamma's rants perfectly. 4 scum with 3 players (in two sets) who will never vote each other is two small.

That’s one theory. I am toying with 3P merry go round and no group scum.

It kinda makes more sense with what Almost50 said your win con was.

If I am right your win con is (paraphrase) “eliminate all threats to town and have one town player standing or be the last three standing” (hunch) this lends itself more to a merry go round than it does group scum. Because each of the 3P groups would consider your 3P group a threat to town.

[MathBlade]

they didn't know it was disloyal

No they didn’t.

Imagine if Shelly is scum.

What is easier to guess?
“I got nothing”
Or
“I got fruit”

No one would expect the cop check.

It’s inherently easier to guess “got nothing” and hope it works out

[MathBlade]

im pretty sure this means shelly is town.

My bet is she is too based on the situation.

Which means we have two town with pants down and nothing to show for it.

[MathBlade]

23 scum means minimum 12 town.
Assume all 3P claims are 3P that means 18 total.
23 at start means 4 scum + SK or 5 scum and town Vig
Or
We’re looking at 3P go round and round alignment go round

5 scum and a vig is my bet. It fits with Gamma's rants perfectly. 4 scum with 3 players (in two sets) who will never vote each other is two small.

i think trusting or giving any weight to gamma's rants is a terrible idea here why would he have any incentive to tell the truth

Ok. Don't trust his rants.

Either 4 plus SK or 5 plus vig.
Vigs are usually negative utility and will shoot the town or 3p most likely. SK has no incentive to shoot 3p and is even more imbalanced for scum.

Agreed. I think 3P merry go round is much more logical. 4-5 scum vs 6 “masons” seems wrong. (Masons in quotes because not actual masons)

[MathBlade]

im pretty sure this means shelly is town.

My bet is she is too based on the situation.

Which means we have two town with pants down and nothing to show for it.

Hardly, the resistance to townfirm shelly is a tell in a way. No one highlighted these problems before. Now that the results are in, there's a flaw with the process. That's telling.

Not really. I was silent even though I saw a flaw because I didn’t want to ruin the reaction in case it caught Shelly. Making lemonade out of lemons.

[MathBlade]

23 scum means minimum 12 town.
Assume all 3P claims are 3P that means 18 total.
23 at start means 4 scum + SK or 5 scum and town Vig
Or
We’re looking at 3P go round and round alignment go round

5 scum and a vig is my bet. It fits with Gamma's rants perfectly. 4 scum with 3 players (in two sets) who will never vote each other is two small.

i think trusting or giving any weight to gamma's rants is a terrible idea here why would he have any incentive to tell the truth

Ok. Don't trust his rants.

Either 4 plus SK or 5 plus vig.
Vigs are usually negative utility and will shoot the town or 3p most likely. SK has no incentive to shoot 3p and is even more imbalanced for scum.

Agreed. I think 3P merry go round is much more logical. 4-5 scum vs 6 “masons” seems wrong. (Masons in quotes because not actual masons)

So you're claiming the masons are actually groupscum?

No, I think that there’s a viable theory no group scum. That it’s just a bunch of 3Ps and town.

[MathBlade]

I am not confident enough to say that for certain. It might be just 4-5 scum v 6 “masons” but it seems wrong to me.

[MathBlade]

@Math, If you don't think an Army is groupscum after a member literally confessed to being groupscum then I don't know what to say.

I mean. You’re taking gamma at his word after he outed “not town” aligned.

Pretty sure that’s spelled sucker. It may be truthful but could be manipulation when he knows he is gonna die. It can’t be taken at face value.

[MathBlade]

Pretty sure that’s spelled sucker. It may be truthful but could be manipulation when he knows he is gonna die. It can’t be taken at face value.

ok, but he s mod confirmed a different group so you think there are 3 third party groups here? One of our groups are lying?

Army = 3P or group scum
Titus hood = 3P
A50 hood = 3P

If Army is 3P but has more members (made up for by public cop there)
Then it’s round and round and we gotta nuke 3P.

If Army is group scum then that’s 5 v 6 conf town and one person has a one shot alien. When one known 3P has a neighborizer. Does anyone see an issue?

[MathBlade]

I think we gotta eliminate army no matter what but with how there’s a disloyal check and an ascetic and how this is shaking out merry go round seems viable.

I just wish I could see the exact wording of the win cons to know it but copy paste is illegal.

[MathBlade]

how do you know we have to eliminate army? I mean we do and thats what my argument has been today that we should be eliminating army b/c my faction isn't a threat to town and if a50 is telling the truth neither is his but why is army the one you think we have to eliminate?

Because of the public cop check and that gamma made an effort to wifom at all.

If army could win with town it wouldn’t be gamma’s scum meta.

[MathBlade]

Ugh but Gamma could have not known how to play it and slipped back into his scum meta.

@schadd: Is that all we get for flips?

[MathBlade]

solid reasoning but you just said to not take Gamma at face value so?????

Not to take him at face value after being caught.

Before being caught (ie it’s his scum meta per Mastina) is before being caught.

[MathBlade]

I want Titus to neighborize someone they townread so the win con is public.

I don’t trust A50 that Titus is town serving if it’s merry go round.

Titus could easily just be Army 3P who bussed gamma or is the 3P she claims but is scorched earth and A50 is scorched earth so they agree to lie. This one is not very likely but possible.

This not knowing the wincons is driving me nuts.

[MathBlade]

Of the two gun to my head I trust A50’s 3P claim more than Titus’s but it’s still sketchy.

[MathBlade]

I want Titus to neighborize someone they townread so the win con is public.

i volunteer

Titus doesn’t say who except she gives a list of townreads at EoD and then picks one at random who she thinks won’t get killed. Then she and her buddies share the wincon and it gets paraphrased out.

None of this generic “i side with town crap” I want specifics.

[MathBlade]

None of this generic “i side with town crap” I want specifics.

what do you want from me
I have clearly stated I am at {Bell, MM, DDL, Chemist, Pickaxe, April(?), TGP, SS} with 4-5 scum

im on plus, math, TS, jjh, nero prob!town
I'll explain on each one if you want

I highly doubt April is scum with motion detector. Plus she got this whole thing started with Titus.

[MathBlade]

plus, math, TS, jjh, nero, mastina, titus are town

a50 sb are ??????????? weird 3p

Nero Titus and Mastina are literally claimed 3P

[MathBlade]

solid analysis Math

That’s not analysis
That’s helping a townread with facts they may have missed.
I still really wanna exe SS or TGP or JJH.

[MathBlade]

I still really wanna exe SS or TGP or JJH.

sell me on jjh

ascetic claims more often than not town imo

Because we have a second kill jjh could be SK.
Or could be group scum trying to avoid a check.

I just don’t like his lack of inactivity and ascetic is a common SK claim.

[MathBlade]

I still really wanna exe SS or TGP or JJH.

sell me on jjh

ascetic claims more often than not town imo

Because we have a second kill jjh could be SK.
Or could be group scum trying to avoid a check.

I just don’t like his lack of inactivity and ascetic is a common SK claim.

Lack of activity lmao

[MathBlade]

@jjh talk to me, do you like my PoE

inactivity is a lazy way to SR people fwiw

math when did you start TR on me

A few posts after you claimed nothing happened. Yes you could be scum it’s a possibility but I don’t see that as likely.

[MathBlade]

Regarding JJH I am used to jjh being hella active.

So if it was an unknown yeah it’s lazy but this is JJh

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Gamma
Gamma has been on MS for 4.5 hours now. He made 47 public posts (the last if which was maybe 2 minutes ago) but is yet to even make an ego post in this game.

I do seem to recall the last time Gamma did that, he was scum, so consider me in support of this. (I like my Bell vote more, but in spirit I am with you here and will happily switch.)

@mastina

Pretty sure I don’t have a chronology problem?

I hadn’t even read to the point you’re claiming. The fact this did not come with a Gamma vote is suspicious AF to me. And you’re linking a post in the 2000s

Are you town or 3P? Just help the local idiot (me)

[MathBlade]

OK, so Tutus/Nero/mastina are confirmed

3P

AND are confirmed the same faction/alignment to

each other

. I have had a long discussion with Titus and her claims appear to legit in that they are not "scum" and

can win with town

. They have an additional wincon that I think is harder to achieve (I'd go as far as stating it's almost impossible) and in that particular case only they win (i.e. Gamma's Army still loses along with Town if that happens).

Let me reiterate for those of you who like to see me say the same thing repeatedly:

1- Titus/mastina/Nero are NON-TOWN
2- Titus/mastina/Nero are NOT ALIGNED WITH GAMMA
3- Titus/mastina/Nero CAN win with the Town (and are inclined to do so)
4- Titus/mastina/Nero can also win exclusively, but it's NIGH IMPOSSIBLE for them to do so

Since you outed this, I suppose I can clarify.
Part of our 3p information is

we explicitly know that the Army is the one and

only

scum faction in this game, numbering exactly five

.
That means this game is NOT multiball.
It is, explicitly, singleball aside from a 3p twist or two.

Gamma was not 3p--he was scum. His faction, and only his faction, is the scumteam this game. There's five of them, including Gamma, thus, four left. (And yes, we are indeed inclined to vote off scum because we have incentive to do so--and I've been playing as if I were a town mason this whole game because I basically am one, because I don't need to eliminate town to win and do need to eliminate scum, soooo. Basically town, albeit not literally town. We are indeed, as Mathblade would describe, essentially "Town+".)

There is more setup information we have, and we shared it with Almost50, but it's not something that I'll blurt out on a whim. (In general, I'm taking the stance that I won't out any information on my own in the public thread, but if someone else in the trusted circle outs the information, then I will happily expand upon it and confirm it with extra details not included before.)

I kinda wanna hear the setup information myself actually.

Because Almost50+Super Bowl are claimed 3P aligned with town with you guys.

I am kinda wondering how you’re expecting me to not think you’re 3P not aligned with town here.

Taking everything you said at face value:

You have 6 players who will never vote for each other. One of whom is an ungated neighborizer.
Vs 5 players one of whom is a one shot alien and has had a player mod confirmed to be not Army.

I know I’ve been out of touch on MS recently but what would scum need to balance this?

This feels like you’re 3P trying to sell me something.

I am not sold. Sell me harder.

[MathBlade]

(I say ungated because Titus said no gates there may be one)

[MathBlade]

Titus could have easily claimed “I know there’s 5 scum and it’s Army” when I was spending all sorts of crazy time running scenarios.

If you have had setup information all along there was 5 scum why let me fucking stew?

[MathBlade]

On another note can we elim DDL

April first would be my preference, but past that? Sure thing!

If you’re 3P aligned with town building the town should be your goal.

Iso me, Mathblade, and there you'll see the townbuilding.

I've been trying to accurately form a solid townbloc the entire game, even noting that while my scumhunting has largely been lackluster, my townhunting was feeling more on-point. And by and large, I stand by that assessment.

While there's outliers like Gamma and April who obvscum themselves beyond all contention, literally none of my other scumreads would surprise me to be wrong--I happen to

believe

that I have a good starting point, but I probably

don't

have the exact solve.

But I do feel like my locktown all have actually good reasons for being locktown.

The players below locktown, I will admit, less reason to be town but I still feel they're town enough.

I realize that was a while ago, so in addition to 3851, lemme post a reminder:
Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Morning Mage
NorwegianboyEE
PlusJOYED
Vecna/Mathblade
jjh927
samantha97/shellyc
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-scum

TheGoldenParadox (almost a locktown candidate, but not quite)
Pickaxe Pete
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-not-scum

DiamondSentinel
Christøpher/Misty
Bell

DrDolittle

Tayl0r Swift

April Ludgate

Titus and Nero share my alignment.
Almost50, superbowl9, and their third share an alignment and I believe their claim.
Morning Mage I reevaluated as being town.
Norwegianboy is, via knowing that the Army is the only scum faction, cleared of being scum.
PlusJOYED's role is town.
samantha was town at every stage and shellyc continues this trend.
Vecna was looking town to me and Mathblade looks just as town.
jjh's ascetic claim doesn't fit as a scum role or a scum fakeclaim; it feels real and like a town role.
EchoVision is 100% not an April scumbuddy; iso EchoVision to confirm this--given that April is lockscum, that means Something_Smart is also town.

TheGoldenParadox and Pickaxe Pete, even if they have made conclusions I later disagreed with, I've followed their logic this game and basically at-the-time-they-posted agreed with them, with them being reasonable, rational, making sense, with a thought train process I could clearly follow flawlessly--not enough to locktown them, but where they are close to.

DiamondSentinel is the towniest of the POE names but while I trust Titus that he's town, I could still see him as possible scum.

Misty is the second-towniest of the POE names but while I see some of her content as town, she could very easily be scum.

Bell makes sense as scum from his D2 contributions and even lacking that is the scummiest of the POE names, bar DDL, so is probably scum.

DDL has been a leanscum the entire game and POE suggests he is scum.

Tayl0r Swift is a player whose content by and large looks town, but her interactions very very strongly suggest scum, due to the players she is defending and what she's done.

And April is basically confscum at this point; the only way to more strongly confirm him would be to literally flip him because he's that damn confscum.

Explain your April case.

I don’t see April conf scum.

I see April claims MD on Titus.
Titus flips out.
April is almost universally townread.
You chainsaw.

Help me out here? What makes you scumread April?

Between Titus’s play which was AT BEST having me stew if you’re honest for the sake of spamming the thread and at worst outright lies.

Give me a reason to believe you over April who I am townreading.

[MathBlade]

I find it more believable that there's only 1 scum faction because Gamma tried to fake a fear of second groupscum or 3P to make us more paranoid of slots outside of the actual scum.

I don’t. I don’t see how this balances.

Taking everything on face value you have 6 not masons but masons + Tracker + minimum 11 other town + mod cop mechanic
VS
4 unknown scum + 1 shot alien. I get alien is very good but I don’t approve this ever.

I don’t see what balances this. I am trying to make this work but I feel like I am ramming in pieces. Mastina says she has more setup info. Let her share it. This way can try to make it fit.

[MathBlade]

I feel I am being more than grateful considering Titus’s response to me thinking about things was like “oh I am thinking the 4-5 is more practical” when IF Mastina is truth telling Titus let me sit in my own pool of misery trying to figure this out. So I am a wee (understatement) pissed and I want to know everything Mastina knows. If Mastina’s town aligned it shouldn’t be a problem and should help her April case and help us.

[MathBlade]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

For the record.
We were informed of this role in the game.
I can't speak for Titus/Nero, but me, personally, I thought it best not to out this role or any part of it, in spite of knowing it existed.
But with the claim out here in full.
Might as well confirm that we know it's a real role and is town-aligned.

This is why PlusJOYED moved from a suspect of mine to locktown; it's because Titus and Nero pointed out PlusJoyed's claim in our PT (which I read before starting my catchup here), and I knew that role was town.
Knowing that role was town and targeted samantha's slot (shellyc) also reaffirmed the locktown read that was already there.
Knowing that role was in the game also is why I think that jjh is town--if jjh were a scum ascetic, then to the disloyal alignment cop inventor, he would literally be a scum Godfather if he didn't claim the ascetic.
Thus, from a setup spec point of view, jjh is pretty much locktown to me; PlusJOYED is conftown; shellyc is likely a legit innocent.

Please continue onward. Claim more setup information that Titus omitted and not answer my fucking question. Please ignore the steam out of my fuckin ears like I am a cartoon character. That will make me 100% trust you.

Sarcasm detector running high.

[MathBlade]

Just fucking claim all the setup information you have right fucking now.

There’s no reason to keep shit hidden.

[MathBlade]

Recruiting neighborhood where all roles are confirmed to each other with a shit ton of setup information given for free?

april claimed investigative in twilight huh

Yep. So if you’re a cop, investigate me please.

By the way guys.

Now that PlusJOYED's role is public.

Guess what

this

looks like from April?

That's right.

A TMI scumslip of knowing there's a cop in the game.

Not really seeing scum here for that Mastina.

Even if I assume it’s a scumslip (which I don’t because townies do that too) April would have to be a godfather or she’d be inviting in pain. Pain that doesn’t make sense assuming April is army and her buddy just got lynched.

Sell me Mastina. Don’t give me a two cent post. Do better.

[MathBlade]

the majority of players will be town

. everyone is multitasking. private topics will generally always be open. there is no redirection. if you can think of something similar to redirection, it's probably not in this. this is also generally unlike a role madness game - plenty of people will be vanilla or almost vanilla.

roles will flip with their name and alignment, with clarifications added for certain unfamiliar things.

makes me think some (?) masons arent masons and there is no traditional scum

Oh. My. God. Can we just sticky an explanation post of what is going on in the game?

That’d be great.

Mastina claims god tier informed powers and 3P with Titus and Nero
You claim 3P with Almost 50+1
Majority town in the game means minimum 12 town
So remainder would have to be 5 scum if truthtelling.

However the more Mastina claims the harder I find it to buy.

It’s like Titus and Mastina are trying to jam a square peg in a round hole

[MathBlade]

What is your full wincon?

Respectfully, this is something that is only pro-scum to share.

If Almost50's group feels differently, if any of them feel it is pro-town to have it known publicly, then they have the ability to out it as we did disclose our full wincon to Almost50, but in my opinion it doesn't help the town to know publicly and does help the scum.

Almost50 did a minor hint of it if we take him at his word.

Sounds kinda like town or scorched earth which sounds like a massive 3 way battle of 3Ps not group scum.

Which is why I want all you have open and exposed so that way you can’t add to it later. Because I am having a very hard time trusting you.

[MathBlade]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

This role and 6 masons, wtf, no.

Also, if Shelly is scum here who received the cop invention, they would know not to say it.

You and I should target the same player.

WE ARE 3RD PARTIES AND TITUS’ GROUP HAS A (VERY HARD) NON-TOWN WINCON ALONGSIDE THEIR WINCON. THIS IS NOT AT ALL IMPROBABLE SETUP WISE. DO NOT LOOK AT THIS AS 6 MASONS.

Again 6 masons different faction claim. But if you will never vote for her group and she will never vote yours that would be de facto masons for balancing the setup. I just want to stage a raid on all the private fucking PTs this game and raid them and make them all go public in this cluster fuck

[MathBlade]

EXACTLY this strat, where he or a scumbuddy at his behest (forget which) claimed motion detector (falsely so) to try and synergize with a town loyal/disloyal role (forget which).

Don't remember which game he pulled this in, but he 100% has done it before and would and did do it again.

Which game?

Titus. Explain now. Explain why the ever loving fuck you let me go down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out this setup if you supposedly had the answer of five scum and I want all the setup information you have right fucking now. There isn’t a cartoon graphic for the levels of pissed I have if you and Mastina are truth telling.

Because right now I feel you’re trying to chip off edges of a square peg and jamming it into a round hole.

Just tell us everything you know about the setup.

[MathBlade]

I feel like if we were in the same PT we’d get along so well mastina

You can just have your buddy A50 relay it to you.

We need actual goddamn town in Titus’s hood.

So some of this shit can get cleared up.

[MathBlade]

Titus could have easily claimed “I know there’s 5 scum and it’s Army” when I was spending all sorts of crazy time running scenarios.

If you have had setup information all along there was 5 scum why let me fucking stew?

Because I didn't trust you and you wouldn't have believed me anyway.

P.S. Don't you sleep?

Sort of. I get three hour bursts if I am lucky. I had a day from hell physically yesterday.

That’s besides the f’n point. Answer my goddamn question.

[MathBlade]

That information doesn't disprove the possibility of an Serial Killer btw.

We're told that's impossible. We're told there are five scum. Everyone else is town aligned.
A serial killer doesn't fit the math either.

Even more informed stuff

Just lay it the f out.

Because I feel you and Mastina are railroading town right now.

[MathBlade]

I feel I am being more than grateful considering Titus’s response to me thinking about things was like “oh I am thinking the 4-5 is more practical” when IF Mastina is truth telling Titus let me sit in my own pool of misery trying to figure this out. So I am a wee (understatement) pissed and I want to know everything Mastina knows. If Mastina’s town aligned it shouldn’t be a problem and should help her April case and help us.

Being pissed at me is not a reason to deny what is true.

There are 5 scum. There is no scum aligned 3p. Either A50 and superbowl are fakeclaiming scum or town. They cannot be an evil 3p. I am doubting scum.

We knew April's alignment and modifiers when they claimed but sat on that for obvious reasons.

Oh honey. I am not denying that you’re claiming shit.

I am just not buying it.

Huge difference.

What modifiers are you saying April has? Iirc they said just motion detector.

[MathBlade]

I feel like if we were in the same PT we’d get along so well mastina

You can just have your buddy A50 relay it to you.

We need actual goddamn town in Titus’s hood.

So some of this shit can get cleared up.

WE ARE TOWN BRO FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES
We’re townier than you atm so idk why you are complaining as though you’re going to somehow put a confirmed town in their hood? And act like they will tell you anything different than what is already being said. But when someone else gets neighborized and says the EXACT SAME THING as us you will look back at this and say it was dumb

No. It’s called insurance. It may be dumb. But there is no one town who has confirmed it just 3Ps. If it gets confirmed then great those are facts to start with. If it doesn’t then I know Titus and Mastina were feeding everyone BS. You’re 3P that means you’re not town. You’re trying to sell me you’re town. Think of me as your customer. You and A50 I trust more than Titus and Mastina but you’re still 3P eod. I can hear the musical warning bells going off in my head.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade think for 2 seconds about this:
If you had setup info that could help catch scum, would you reveal it and lose all chance of catching scum because someone is butthurt they don’t have your info in main thread???

Depends on the situation.

If need be I adapt to the situation at hand. Sometimes my plans would not be as good as releasing the information to make sure town doesn’t stray. Generally this latter camp is more important.

Guilties can be hidden and yanked out Imho but setup information usually falls on the side of making sure the other town know everything for proper world building.

[MathBlade]

You can’t know that any given neighborized person is town dude. You can either doubt our wincon or you can doubt someone else’s alignment AND wincon, which do you prefer? Unless you think we can get norway in the hood in which case I think you may have other issues

Can I know? Of course not. That’s part of the risk. But I see 0 reason Titus and Mastina can’t neighborize one of their many many lock towns.

I may have other issues because every time I mention something Titus and Mastina hold another piece of informed information like a fucking carrot.

I am not going to just fall in line because Titus and Mastina say so.

Give me an f’in case and play mafia rather than “I am a magical informed 3P and you should trust all this information” it’s iioa.

[MathBlade]

Now think about this math: do you think COMBINED titus, mastina, and Nero have enough mafia experience to be able to recognize when it is good or bad to give out info?

Oh it’s not their experience I am doubting.

It’s their motive and alignment.

I caught Mastina earlier and she is still trying to cover it up with BS.

I was right she wasn’t town and there is even more BS.

Now it looks like Titus and Mastina are trying to break up the system between April and Plus to check people.

[MathBlade]

@Superbowl9- It's admirable to try and reason with Mathblade but Math has no sense of understanding of keeping pants on when he wants to know it. If he feels out of control, the response is you better "drop pants" as he puts it.

@Math, We did neighborize a locktown. That's A50. We have three people who know our claim. That's three people who we realistically cannot vote for barring a setup where they become modconfirmed scum. You just aren't on the locktown list. With your ranting being greater than your scumhunting, you never will be.

A50 is 3P.

Try harder.

An actual lock town.

You can’t have it both ways Super Bowl.

You’re either masons or you’re not.

[MathBlade]

I have a midterm but yall gonna look borderline scummy stupid when we flip another scum. Please point to the conftown titus should have neighborized yesterday

Anyone in her locktown list.
Done.

[MathBlade]

@Math, He's town plus that requires all three of mastina/Nero/Me to be lying or scum with A50 and one other that fake claimed d1. Literally, they cannot be evil 3p. It's against my/mastina/Nero's role pm.

Uh huh.
Right.
Exactly.

So here you go my queen.

VOTE: April

The humble peasant is getting sick and tired of telling everyone they’re being idiots for following the 3P instead of the town. I don’t believe you. But I am sick and tired of the BS.

Each time I point out a flaw you just add BS to the pile.

I figure the best way to out you is watch you fail.

And if you don’t I am closer to victory win win.

[MathBlade]

Fwiw, I think Math is only scum in an April!town universe. I can't see Math rage as a hard bus. I think Mathblade's town anyway but this is further evidence.

This doesn’t make sense.

Either April is conf scum or they aren’t.

Take your pick.

You can’t weasel out because I am giving you the execution you want.

“Oh wait in case this fails I gotta shade Math”

That’s disgusting.

You have control of the game highness. That includes ownership of the responsibility.

[MathBlade]

Just fucking claim all the setup information you have right fucking now. There’s no reason to keep shit hidden.

To some extent there actually is tho.

I've revealed a lot publicly, and

everything

in the PT.

There's six players who can decide if the stuff in the latter not in the former should be moved from the latter into the former.

Uh huh.

Clearly.

Yup.

I believe you.

(This post is sarcastic)

[MathBlade]

Math

If you don’t like mastina approach do you think they’re just anti town or scum fakeclaiming

Because this obviously isn’t a fakeclaim

If you know mastina to be “town” why do you shitfight with them

I don’t think they’re town. I don’t think they’re scum. I think they’re 3P like they claimed.

I don’t trust not town until they earn it. I pegged Mastina as not town during the read through.

The wagon on Gamma was 3P driven not town driven.

All of the information has been routed through 3P and not town.

If their setup spec is true Norwegian is lock town to them. Invite them boom done.

[MathBlade]

Because they haven’t earned my trust and are tunneling one of my top townreads and each answer just piles more and more BS on rather than fight them I am trying a new strategy of “fine let them choke on their BS”

Then if April is army we are good
And if not then they are the anti town 3P I thought they were and we can exe them tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

Then if April is army we are good
And if not then they are the anti town 3P I thought they were and we can exe them tomorrow.

What exactly do you expect their win condition to be if they are anti-town 3P though? What would their goal be by targeting April here? What is their plan?

The wincon no idea. As nearly everything would be bullshit. It would be back to the drawing board.

Their plan would be to get rid of motion detector for accountability.

Motion detectors are incredibly OP in an experienced player’s hands. And April is experienced.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade, And your response when NorwegianboyEE believes us is that he was agency captured. We aren't going to appease you. We are going to play for town to win. You don't get to dictate our actions.

Second, none of us are backing off from being 3p. Setting aside whether we're good or evil, that leaves 5 group scum.

We aren't going to earn your trust. You have made that abundantly clear to the thread. We definitely are not today, since you are hinging your trust in us based on following your whims.

Let's just go after a common enemy.

Nope. Not how this works.

You say you’re town siding.

You say you’ve caught scum in April.

We’re testing you.

Otherwise you don’t have caught scum in April and my townread is right.

Which is it?

I don’t work to find a common enemy when I don’t know if you’re town or scum siding. Because then you just pick from the Townie in my list.

You have a “conf” scum. You can either admit their not conf scum and actually try to cooperate
Or you say their still conf scum and it’s a barometer check

Mastina said she had setup spec that makes April scum.

If that is true then April is scum. If that’s not then it’s BS to get April hung and it is known.

[MathBlade]

From my POV if you’re town siding you’re the equivalent of 3 players claiming a guilty on April.

So you always lynch the guilty here. If the guilty person ends up town then you look at the cop claim.

[MathBlade]

@Math, mastina is utterly convinced April is scum. My VCA as April as scum. I disagree with her setup spec point but have my own independent read. mastina has her experience with April that I don't share (namely April has pulled this motion detector before). Yet, mastina is right about April pushing the confirmed not Army slots, looking for a chink in the armor.

If this causes you to unvote April, so be it. I am not one to overstate a case.

I really wish Mastina didn’t go to bed.

Mastina said she believes April is scum due to information she has about the setup.

You have the same information.

You and Mastina are trying to have your cake and eat it too.

“Trust us we have all this information.”

I sheep you even though my gut says you’re wrong.

“Wait don’t trust me like that”.

Fuck that.

[MathBlade]

I don't want to have to mediate the shitstorm that occurred overnight, so I won't. But Math, please, for the love of god, stop being... just all of that.

So much of your arguments are just lacking in any sort of nuance and it's

really

polluting the game.

Oh I am sorry.

Am I supposed to package all my arguments in a pretty little bow when you have literal non town running the game?

That’s what scum!Me does.

I don’t give a shit about how it looks. I care about reality. What am I supposed to stop being? Honest that I think we’re gonna lose? That I don’t accept BS when everyone else is taking it hook line and sinker.

I am allowed to be angry. These are viable emotions.

[MathBlade]

I don't want to have to mediate the shitstorm that occurred overnight, so I won't. But Math, please, for the love of god, stop being... just all of that.

So much of your arguments are just lacking in any sort of nuance and it's

really

polluting the game.

Oh I am sorry.

Am I supposed to package all my arguments in a pretty little bow when you have literal non town running the game?

That’s what scum!Me does.

I don’t give a shit about how it looks. I care about reality. What am I supposed to stop being? Honest that I think we’re gonna lose? That I don’t accept BS when everyone else is taking it hook line and sinker.

I am allowed to be angry. These are viable emotions.

You're supposed to act civilly because what you're doing now is accomplishing nothing.

This is civil.

This is angry but civil.

I am not name calling.

I am accurately pointing out they are 3P.

I am accurately pointing out their claims and I don’t believe them.

There is nothing breaking rules here and is civil.

[MathBlade]

You going on tirades is not civil because it detracts from the ability of others to do anything and keep up. There were 7 pages when I woke up this morning full of you going back and forth with everyone else in the game. That's not cool.

Oh no. Math can’t play because he disagrees with Queens Titus and Mastina.

Fuck it I have work.

This is literally the only time I have until late tonight.

Excuse me for trying to make it worth it.

Because now Titus and Mastina will have around 12 hours of unfettered access except during my 30 minute lunch break.

[MathBlade]

The gamestate is your team is claiming a guilty on April.

If you and Mastina wish to rescind that guilty it changes the gamestate but a rescinded guilty isn’t just scumclaiming

So no there is literally no read I can push because reads can not override a guilty claim.

[MathBlade]

So no. Rescind the guilty claim explicitly or we execute April and use it as a barometer check i really gotta showed now