The Bulge's Large Normal Review, October 2020

[The Bulge]

The purpose of the traitor neighbours is to try to make the game more fun for them. I've never rolled traitor myself but I know people often find the role boring to play. This adds a very dynamic sort of sidequest, which can end up being a drawback or an advantage depending on where the hood discussion goes. This setup was submitted under the assumption that the two would not be informed of each other's roles, making for a potentially very interesting post-game read. If this is not considered Normal please let me know but I see nothing in the Rules explicitly against this.

I'll definitely take away the 1-shot doc. I'm curious though, under Normal guidelines would they still return inno to a gunsmith after using the shot?

I'm not married to those fruit vendor modifiers, I just liked the idea of two town-aligned fruit vendors with slightly different utilities. We could possibly give the town more power with different modifiers? Make one weak or loyal?

The double universal backup gives two copies of whichever town pr dies first (unless that's not actually how it works under Normal guidelines but I don't see why it work any differently!). Worst case scenario is double millers, which in this setup actually hurts scum and not town. I'm worried about what throwing a vig into the mix for that reason. Obviously the setup is [very intentionally] swingy as is but I tried to not give too much power to either side, so as to not let the swinginess be too detrimental, if that makes sense.

[The Bulge]

---

Zoologic

featuring photos curated by Peter Uetz

---

Playerlist

First Player
Second Player
Third Player
Fourth Player
Fifth Player
Sixth Player
Seventh Player
Eighth Player
Ninth Player
Tenth Player
Eleventh Player
Twelfth Player
Thirteenth Player
Fourteenth Player
Fifteenth Player
Sixteenth Player
Seventeenth Player
Eighteenth Player
Nineteenth Player
Twentieth Player
Twenty-first Player

Replaced

—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—

Links

Forum Rules & Guidelines ::
Important Announcements ::
Normal Game Rules ::
Sample Role PM ::
Votecounts ::
Most recent votecount [post=::]::[/post]

Game Events

Nothing has happened yet!

---

Game Rules

i.

Many of the following rules are formalities. Most are fluid. Do not test or abuse the rules. The consequences of breaking these rules are case-by-case.

ii.

I am the Bulge thy Mod. My word is law. Hex colour

#44A04A

is reserved for Mod use.

@Bulge

for any in-thread Mod communication or feel free to PM me at any time.

iii.

Familiarize yourself with the Forum Rules & Guidelines, linked above. Make sure to stay on top of any new Important Announcements.

iv.

Do not talk about other ongoing games in this thread. Do not talk about this game while it is ongoing in any other thread, except in any Private Threads provided by the Mod.

v.

Do not harass any other player or try to ruin the fun of the game for anyone.

vi.

Do not play against your Win Condition. You may privately request replacement at any time.

vii.

Do not use encrypted, invisible, or ridiculously tiny text. I may edit your posts if you do. This is a social game with no place for cryptography.

viii.

Do not use provable randomness. You are allowed to say, for example, that you rolled a die to arrive at a particular conclusion, but you cannot use the tag.

ix.

Do not quote or copy+paste any text from any game-related private threads or personal messages, real or fabricated. You may not claim to be mafia partners with another player.

x.

All votes and unvotes must be bolded or contained within a [

vote

][

/vote

] or [

unvote

][

/unvote

] tag. Votes inside quote, spoiler, area, or any similar tags will not be counted.

xi.

Once a player has accumulated half of the votes (rounded down) plus one, an Elimination occurs and no further votes that Day are counted.

xii.

If there is no majority vote reached before the deadline, there will be No Elimination. If you do not submit an Action before the deadline, you will perform No Action.

xiii.

The Day phases will be at most 14 days long, except in the case of any late-day replacements. Nights will be 48 hours. All deadlines are as posted or until the Mod arrives.

xiv.

If you do not post for 36 hours in a row, you will receive a prod. Failing to respond to a prod after 24 hours or accumulating four prods may result in your replacement.

xv.

If you think you will be unable to post or check in for an extended period of time, please contact me privately so that we can make the appropriate arrangements.

xvi.

This game uses a closed Normal setup, designed following the Normal Game Rules, linked above. The following is a Role PM template that at least one player this game will receive:

Spoiler: VT Sample Role PM

[The Bulge]

I'm reworking the formatting of Role PMs I'll post em when I can. Although I might hold off until we get a little deeper into setup modifications, if that's alright. Let me know if there are any specifics I should be going out of my way to include.

[The Bulge]

Mafia Cop
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

Mafia Traitor Neighbour
Mafia Traitor Neighbour

Town Miller
Town Simple Fruit Vendor
Town 1-shot Bulletproof Gunsmith
Town Protective? could keep the babysitter or do jk? stuck here
Town 3-shot Vigilante
Town Universal Backup
Town Universal Backup
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie


how is this looking

[The Bulge]

should the traitors be informed of each others' alignment?

[The Bulge]

hmmmmm yup i didnt reevaluate the gunsmith's potential power with the backups now that their invest is more reliable and less uhh bastardy

will get to it after a nap!

[The Bulge]

would it be enough to make the gunsmith even-night? maybe with an odd-night doc as the town protective?

[The Bulge]

no bulletproof

[The Bulge]

can I get a final ruling on whether the traitors are informed of each other? I like both ways conceptually so just whatever the guidelines dictate

[The Bulge]

I would go a step further and argue that the rules are not only ambiguous but contradictory in the case of two traitors

•knows the identities of all of the Mafia team
•identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists

hopefully I'm not just making a case here for "double traitors are not Normal" lol but I think it does demonstrate that the wording of the wiki, as is, does not adequately account for two traitors and thus shouldn't be a reliable basis for this ruling.

I do agree however that the tricky wording that would be required is perhaps a point against leaving them uninformed. but if I can come up with something that works and that we all agree on, isn't this point purely hypothetical?

given only four names and no further information, that should be a tip off at the very least that something is up (unless that's not the only info a normal single traitor gets, if they learn roles or whatever as well then pretend I'm talking about all that). all it takes is for one of them to connect the dots and take the gambit of claiming or otherwise heavily hinting. the neighbourhood resolves itself and stabilizes, or doesn't and is hilarious in retrospect. it plays nicely into the idea of a neighbourhood with two uninformed scum and an additional traitor sidequest.

[The Bulge]

I get you. I don't want to seem like I'm trying to take advantage of the grey area. However it's done should be presentable and feasible as a permanent solution. I don't want the way it plays out to be even uglier than the lack of a standard

[The Bulge]

I guess the question is should this unique hood dynamic, where claiming scum in PT is beneficial to both parties, be allowed in a Normal game? if not then no worries, if yes then I'd like to explore it.

[The Bulge]

you would have a nearly impossible time selling me on two UBs being normal - scum are punished if they kill a good PR first, this makes people very very upset in post game

double UB was probably the "concept" I cared least about here, so I'm fine scrapping it to allow for more design space, and you have a very fair point.

i'm fine with traitors not knowing about each other, though i will be paying attention to your role PMs that the wording couldn't be parsed as ruling out other traitors. something i don't know if i ever voiced is that i think the neighborhood would be very fun and i'm interested to see how it goes

I will get going on the PMs in the next few days.

here is a setup i would be down with:

Spoiler:

Mafia Cop
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

Mafia

informed (x is mafia cop)

Traitor Neighbour
Mafia

informed (x is mafia roleblocker)

Traitor Neighbour

Town

bulletproof

Miller
Town Simple Fruit Vendor
Town

odd-night

Gunsmith
Town

babysitter

Town 3-shot Vigilante
Town Universal Backup
Town

odd-night jailkeeper

Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

I really really really like the idea of informing each traitor of a different groupscum's role. This gives them another more tangible reward for solving each other.
BP Miller is fine.
Already said I like even/odd for gating the gunsmith so this is good.
I think the Babysitter has to be Lazy or else 3p limlo could end in a draw with a miselim and probably a mess of other potential end-phase fuckery.
I still like the vig having 3 shots with just a singular UB but that can be tweaked if we feel the need.
Odd-night JK is fine but I'll see if there's something else I'd prefer. What's your reasoning on that?

[The Bulge]

should the babysitter protect from all kill attempts or only one per night? I personally would rather the former.

[The Bulge]

Are the "Assuming no interference with your action" clauses in the sample wiki Pms necessary?

[The Bulge]

also, which of the PRs can and cannot self-target?

[The Bulge]

should the vig have shots returned if blocked?

[The Bulge]

if the UB inherits a new role, do they flip "UB->new role" or just the new role?

[The Bulge]

I'll give priority to factional>vigshot if two PRs die at the same time.

[The Bulge]

^ for the UB

[The Bulge]

thanks, it's been a while haha

[The Bulge]

is there a list somewhere of general standards for stuff like that?

[The Bulge]

Spoiler: Role PMs

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You do not have any active abilities.

You win when there are no remaining threats to the Town, and at least one Town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Town Bulletproof Miller

.

You do not have any active abilities. You are automatically protected from any kills that target you. If you are investigated by a Cop, you will return a result of "Not Town".

You win when there are no remaining threats to the Town, and at least one Town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Town Simple Fruit Vendor

.

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, they will receive the following anonymous message: "You have received fruit!". If you target a player who is not a Vanilla Townie or a Mafia Goon, your action will fail.

You win when there are no remaining threats to the Town, and at least one Town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Town Odd-Night Gunsmith

.

Each odd-numbered Night (N1, N3, N5, etc.), you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not they have a gun ("x has a gun" or "x does not have a gun"), or else receive No Result. All members of the Mafia (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops, Vengefuls, Detectives, and Neapolitans have guns, as do their Backups and JoATs that have any of these listed powers.

You win when there are no remaining threats to the Town, and at least one Town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Town Lazy Babysitter

.

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, they will be protected from any kills that target them***. If you are killed at Night, your target will also die. If there is only one non-Town player alive at the start of the Night, your action will fail.

You win when there are no remaining threats to the Town, and at least one Town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Town 3-shot Vigilante

.

Each Night, you may target another player if you have not already used this ability 3 times this game. Assuming no interference with your action, they will be killed.

You win when there are no remaining threats to the Town, and at least one Town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Town Odd-Night Jailkeeper

.

Each odd-numbered Night (N1, N3, N5, etc.), you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, they will be protected from any kills that target them, and their action will be blocked.

You win when there are no remaining threats to the Town, and at least one Town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Town Universal Backup

.

You do not have any active abilities. You will inherit the role of the first Town Power Role to die this game. When you inherit a new role, you will lose this one.

You win when there are no remaining threats to the Town, and at least one Town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Mafia Cop

.

Your teammates are xxxxxx. You may communicate with them at any time here***. There are also two Traitors aligned with the Mafia whose identities are not known to you or the rest of your team.

Each Night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, they will be killed.

Each Night that you do not perform the factional kill, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether they are Town or Not Town, or else receive No Result.

You win when at least one Mafia-aligned player is alive while there are no living non-Mafia players, or if there is nothing that can prevent this scenario from occurring.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

Your teammates are xxxxxx. You may communicate with them at any time here***. There are also two Traitors aligned with the Mafia whose identities are not known to you or the rest of your team.

Each Night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, they will be killed.

Each Night that you do not perform the factional kill, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, their action will be blocked.

You win when at least one Mafia-aligned player is alive while there are no living non-Mafia players, or if there is nothing that can prevent this scenario from occurring.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Mafia Goon

.

Your teammates are xxxxxx. You may communicate with them at any time here***. There are also two Traitors aligned with the Mafia whose identities are not known to you or the rest of your team.

Each Night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, they will be killed.

You win when at least one Mafia-aligned player is alive while there are no living non-Mafia players, or if there is nothing that can prevent this scenario from occurring.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Mafia Informed Traitor Neighbour

.

The full members of the Mafia are xxxxxx. You have no direct line of communication with them and your identity is not known to them.

You know that xxxx is a Mafia Cop.

You share a neighbourhood with xxxx. You may communicate with them at any time here***.

You do not have any active abilities.

You die immediately if at any point the only living members of the Mafia are Traitors.

You win when at least one Mafia-aligned player is alive while there are no living non-Mafia players, or if there is nothing that can prevent this scenario from occurring.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Mafia Informed Traitor Neighbour

.

The full members of the Mafia are xxxxxx. You have no direct line of communication with them and your identity is not known to them. If at any point none of these players are alive, you will die immediately.

You know that xxxx is a Mafia Roleblocker.

You share a neighbourhood with xxxx. You may communicate with them at any time here***.

You do not have any active abilities.

You win when at least one Mafia-aligned player is alive while there are no living non-Mafia players, or if there is nothing that can prevent this scenario from occurring.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

the traitor PMs are worded slightly different, I would appreciate input on which you prefer.

also balance-wise, daytalk y/n?

[The Bulge]

[The Bulge]

Yea that wording would be fine I think. "non-traitor" doesn't give anything away to a traitor.

[The Bulge]

interested why theres the three asterisks in the babysitter PM

should the babysitter protect from all kill attempts or only one per night? I personally would rather the former.

[The Bulge]

huh I remembered reading it could go either way but you're right.

[The Bulge]

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Town Lazy Babysitter

.

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, they will be protected from one kill that targets them. If you are killed at Night, your target will also die. If there is only one non-Town player alive at the start of the Night, your action will fail.

You win when there are no remaining threats to the Town, and at least one Town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Player Name

Welcome to Sibyl's Elegy. You are a

Mafia Informed Traitor Neighbour

.

The non-Traitor members of the Mafia are xxxxxx. You have no direct line of communication with them and your identity is not known to them. If all of them are dead, you will also die immediately.

You know that xxxx is a Mafia Cop/Mafia Roleblocker.

You share a neighbourhood with xxxx. You may communicate with them at any time here.

You do not have any active abilities.

You win when at least one Mafia-aligned player is alive while there are no living non-Mafia players, or if there is nothing that can prevent this scenario from occurring.

The game thread is here. You will receive a PM once the game has begun.

Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

[The Bulge]

is there anything else that needs to be done?

[The Bulge]

if I've changed the flavour and formatting of my OP do I need to post it here? I haven't changed the rules at all.

[The Bulge]

whew I'm excited

[The Bulge]

thank you all for your time and input