Newbie 2037 - Game Over

[ItalianoVD]

Hello everyone!

[ItalianoVD]

Let’s make things interesting with some RQS

For those that don’t know, RQS is called Random Questioning Stage and it has its advantages. And this is for everyone in the playerlist. Non answers get scumread.

1. What is your overall mafia experience? Not just on this site.
2. Do you prefer playing scum/wolf or town/village?
3. In your opinion, what are some of the top things to look for when scumhunting?
4. When townhunting?
5. Is it easy or difficult for you to lie?

=======================

1. I’ve been playing the wolf version of mafia since 2006. Mafiascum.net for 5 months.
2. Town/Village
3. Apathy, inconsistencies, passiveness/aggressiveness giving the context, perfect posting, and voting patterns.
4. Disagreeableness, having one’s own mind and gut feel. Oh and a little scumminess never hurt.
5. Yes. I find it very difficult to lie and work to just not do it.

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry for the triple post.

ItalianoVD, do you dislike RVS?

Ehh, I don’t prefer it. I’d rather jut get to the scumhunting; Actually I don’t like Day 1s cause there’s not a lot to go on and you usually have to get lucky to get scum on the first day.

[ItalianoVD]

I have to go to work soon, will post more when I'm back in about ~6 hours.
Is it normal in these newbie games to have an SE teamed up with a newb as the scum faction? What a the chances of a SE/SE or a newb/newb pairing?

Yeah I’m gonna townread this question because if you were scum you’d probably just ask your partner or the mod this question. It’s already been answered so no use being redundant.

[ItalianoVD]

Hey everyone! This is a fairly new player list how exciting

VOTE: Italiano

Hey Mini How’s it going?

[ItalianoVD]

Also Italiano I’m not gonna say it’s a scum read on you but the questions on what people look for when town hunting/scum hunting pings me as something a scum would ask to try and play to the townie way each person describes

You really think I’d be asking the town how to scum?

Sorry for the triple post.

ItalianoVD, do you dislike RVS?

Ehh, I don’t prefer it. I’d rather jut get to the scumhunting; Actually I don’t like Day 1s cause there’s not a lot to go on and you usually have to get lucky to get scum on the first day.

Italiano do you feel you can scum hunt easier with RQS instead of RVS?

My take on it is that both RQS and RVS are ways to get to know the players. I think RQS is a more direct way and RVS a more indirect way, but to answer your question yes. I feel RQS helps me understand the players better than RVS, which in turn helps in scumhunting and also townhunting.

[ItalianoVD]

Generally RVS is used to get people to react to being voted for or having pressure on them. RVS is for the short term, RQS is for the long term. If that makes sense.

[ItalianoVD]

1. ive played mafia with some irl friends, read a few games here back when i registered (couldn't play cus school and stuff) and read a few recently completed games too
2. playing scum gives me a kind of thrill which i really enjoy, but i like deducing stuff as town too
3. (shouldnt reveal top secret 1000iq strats)
4. (shouldnt reveal top secret 1000iq strats)
5. ez pz i think

Why not just answer 3 and 4. What do you have to hide?

@NorfolkBoy: you should ask Rockhopper the question you asked Mini.

[ItalianoVD]

Non answers get scumread.

Smooth. It seems like you're pretty experienced at manipulating people to do what you want them to do?

In any case, I don't want to get scumread, so here goes:

1. What is your overall mafia experience? Not just on this site.
2. Do you prefer playing scum/wolf or town/village?
3. In your opinion, what are some of the top things to look for when scumhunting?
4. When townhunting?
5. Is it easy or difficult for you to lie?

1. I have little/no mafia experience. I witnessed my housemate play a game on a different site once, but that's the extent as to how far my knowledge goes.
2. I can't really comment due to lack of experience.
3. Look out for contradictions, deliberately misusing peoples quotes out of context in order to fit their own agenda and lurking/deliberately staying out of the thread to avoid questions/trying to slip under the radar.
4. Look for people who have their own reads and back it up with proof instead of just blindly hopping on the bandwagon because everyone else is. The more activity to go off, the better. Being too verbose could have an adverse effect too I guess. I dunno, it's a tough one
5. I can't lie worth a ****. I always inevitably get called out on it and I'm not the best at thinking on my feet, so I figure it's not worth the hassle.

Lol, that phrase is just me being facetious (notice the emoticon), but I really appreciate the answers. Thank you.

[ItalianoVD]

And why no answer of 3 and 4 from you? @NorfolkBoy

[ItalianoVD]

1. I play on Mafia.gg alot and I also used to play town of salem.
2. I prefer being town.
3. When scumhunting I think you should look for people who haven't contributed much to the conversation.
4. When townhunting I try to ask myself if they would do this as a mafia.
5. Pretty hard to lie ngl.

So I’m assuming you’re gonna be contributing more?

[ItalianoVD]

I honestly don't know. I think being the informed minority, there's a psychological burden on the mafia of trying to scumhunt knowing fully well that there is no other secret faction to hunt down, while having survival as the top priority to achieve their wincon at the same time. I plan to try and deduce on this basis.

And how are you going to do that?

I don't really see how 3 and 4 are more useful to town than scum, that's one of the reasons for my vote.

I’ve asked these questions in multiple games before and as I mentioned it not only gets people talking, but it allows the town to get to know each other. Unfortunately scum is part of our town, but these questions can tell us a lot, even though you don’t think so. Think about it, if I hadn’t asked those questions what would be happening right now? Nothing. I even got you to vote for me. I didn’t RVS vote, instead I did RQS. I don’t have to waste a pointless vote, but now I can interact with the playerlist and go from there.

And why no answer of 3 and 4 from you? @NorfolkBoy

I answered 4. I'm not answering 3 as there's no need to reveal to scum what pings me as scumtell.

My mistake, I missed that. And I think scum will play the way they’re gonna play without input from the town. I highly doubt they’re in their chat waiting for someone to post what’s scummy and do the opposite. As it stands, most, if not all scum players want to be townread or look like town, carefully posting as not to make themselves look scummy, even more so for newb scum players. Scum can only fake it for so long and they will get found. I haven’t played with Billy or Dunnstral before, but if all the SEs are town aligned, then it’ll be a wrap for newbscum.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: padwag

Actually no, this was worse

VOTE: bakslash

Not sure where your head is on this? RVS? Serious?

[ItalianoVD]

Where are you Dunnstral?

[ItalianoVD]

And I think scum will play the way they’re gonna play without input from the town. I highly doubt they’re in their chat waiting for someone to post what’s scummy and do the opposite.

But you do recognise that the question you posed could be giving scum pointers?

No. Not at all actually. I read a game where you were scum with Redados. Did you ever look at any of the town players ideas, scenarios, and hypotheticals and say “hey that’s smart, I should/could do that”?

My take on it is that both RQS and RVS are ways to get to know the players. I think RQS is a more direct way and RVS a more indirect way, but to answer your question yes. I feel RQS helps me understand the players better than RVS, which in turn helps in scumhunting and also townhunting.

Okay that’s a pretty fair point but I just think RQS can be dangerous in terms of telling the scum what you’re looking for in a town/scum person but that’s just my opinion

And that’s perfectly fine. I’m not even saying for you not to think it’s suspicious, but it seems pretty unlikely it would change anything, no matter who asked the questions.

[ItalianoVD]

Let’s make things interesting with some RQS

For those that don’t know, RQS is called Random Questioning Stage and it has its advantages. And this is for everyone in the playerlist. Non answers get scumread.

1. What is your overall mafia experience? Not just on this site.
2. Do you prefer playing scum/wolf or town/village?
3. In your opinion, what are some of the top things to look for when scumhunting?
4. When townhunting?
5. Is it easy or difficult for you to lie?

=======================

1. I’ve been playing the wolf version of mafia since 2006. Mafiascum.net for 5 months.
2. Town/Village
3. Apathy, inconsistencies, passiveness/aggressiveness giving the context, perfect posting, and voting patterns.
4. Disagreeableness, having one’s own mind and gut feel. Oh and a little scumminess never hurt.
5. Yes. I find it very difficult to lie and work to just not do it.

I'm going to be a bit inactive until Friday. Busy with work and other things.

1) First social deduction game i played was Blood on the Clocktower a little over a year ago and I fell in love. Have played one night werewolf a bit, and particularly enjoy playing the Resistance. But ive probably played on this site the most.
2) I prefer playing as town, but it does tend to give me some anxiety.
3) Thing that im looking for the most is progressions that seem driven by things external to the person. Rather than something internal. Im not that great at scumhunting and I tend to work a bit better by townhunting and doing poe. Particularly around endgame.
4) This is a bit trickier. Im more confident in my ability to townhunt, but when asked to describe what I'm looking for, its tougher to describe.
5) Context matters. I find it pretty difficult to lie in person, but I also don't see how people can have difficulty lying in a text based game. I think logic is tougher to fake than a towntell.

I've seen SE's do RQS in three newbie games that I've been involved with. In 2 of those 3 games it came from scum. I think its a hell of an easy way to get started and kicks off the game in a comfortable way by spending time talking about theory type stuff.

VOTE: Italiano

Let’s make things interesting with some RQS

For those that don’t know, RQS is called Random Questioning Stage and it has its advantages. And this is for everyone in the playerlist. Non answers get scumread.

1. What is your overall mafia experience? Not just on this site.
2. Do you prefer playing scum/wolf or town/village?
3. In your opinion, what are some of the top things to look for when scumhunting?
4. When townhunting?
5. Is it easy or difficult for you to lie?

=======================

1. I’ve been playing the wolf version of mafia since 2006. Mafiascum.net for 5 months.
2. Town/Village
3. Apathy, inconsistencies, passiveness/aggressiveness giving the context, perfect posting, and voting patterns.
4. Disagreeableness, having one’s own mind and gut feel. Oh and a little scumminess never hurt.
5. Yes. I find it very difficult to lie and work to just not do it.

I'm going to be a bit inactive until Friday. Busy with work and other things.

1) First social deduction game i played was Blood on the Clocktower a little over a year ago and I fell in love. Have played one night werewolf a bit, and particularly enjoy playing the Resistance. But ive probably played on this site the most.
2) I prefer playing as town, but it does tend to give me some anxiety.
3) Thing that im looking for the most is progressions that seem driven by things external to the person. Rather than something internal. Im not that great at scumhunting and I tend to work a bit better by townhunting and doing poe. Particularly around endgame.
4) This is a bit trickier. Im more confident in my ability to townhunt, but when asked to describe what I'm looking for, its tougher to describe.
5) Context matters. I find it pretty difficult to lie in person, but I also don't see how people can have difficulty lying in a text based game. I think logic is tougher to fake than a towntell.

I've seen SE's do RQS in three newbie games that I've been involved with. In 2 of those 3 games it came from scum. I think its a hell of an easy way to get started and kicks off the game in a comfortable way by spending time talking about theory type stuff.

VOTE: Italiano

Aww that’s nice. Well consider this to be 2 out of 4.

Well it looks like everyone has answered all the questions, well except for Rockhopper and Norfolk Boy. The reason I did this was as I stated: to get people talking and for us to get to know each other quicker and more efficiently than just throwing random votes around (not saying RVS is pointless, but I feel sometimes players hide behind it as an excuse to not have to explain their vote).

The other reason, contrary to some of your opinions, is for this information to assist the town players in scumhunting as well as townhunting, which I feel is just as important. Not now and probably not the rest of this day, but all of our answers are gonna come back up and whatever scenario we are in, the town players will be able to go back to those questions and use them as a help/guide. It’s late where I am so I’ll get into more interactions and whatnot tomorrow.

But for now I’m gonna put pressure on the player that said

“3. When scumhunting I think you should look for people who haven't contributed much to the conversation.”

VOTE: bakslash

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: padwag

I think padwag is scummier but I'll do bak for now.

VOTE: bakslash
That's E-2

Why do you think Padwag is scummy? And like Mini said, if you think he’s scummier, why wouldn’t you vote for him?

[ItalianoVD]

I am testing reactions

this post actually gives off town vibes to me tbh, i can elaborate on this if someone wants (ps im not really good at articulation

What changed?

[ItalianoVD]

quote]I read a game where you were scum with Redados. Did you ever look at any of the town players ideas, scenarios, and hypotheticals and say “hey that’s smart, I should/could do that.

Yeah - it's clear I did, particularly in the scum PT for that game. I subbed in on night 2, so it was easier, but my main tactic for the last dayphase in particular was to manipulate Fredrick's philosophy of 'no helpful posts = scum' into him joining a wagon with me.

And where did that get you?

[ItalianoVD]

Just to throw it out there, I feels like something is off with Billy’s posts. Give me a moment to break it down. I’ll give an analysis of why I think so.

[ItalianoVD]

Billy RVS votes Dunnstral, which is fine. Votes padwag in 22 for voting RVS. Kinda unfair imo, but then flips it in 23, which I’m guessing pulled us/him out of RVS. I asked him what was on his mind regarding this in 60 (more on that later)

If padwag was RVS voting and claimed to be testing reactions (which is the purpose of RVS) seems like Billy should have just let it go. RVS votes don’t always need an explanation before placing it down.

Not sure what he was expecting to get in 79. Looks to be asking just to ask. 80 is similar where it doesn’t seem that padwag’s answer(s) would give him anything of substance. 81 and 82 follow the same theme.

88 is just unfair, given that Billy voted for someone who hadn’t posted yet (Dunnstral)

I also feel Billy is trying to pocket (get them on his side) possible newbie townies in 83 and 85.

In the back of my mind Billy is scum and will probably and ultimately be my final vote of the day, but we have time for more interactions and activity.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: padwag

Actually no, this was worse

VOTE: bakslash

Not sure where your head is on this? RVS? Serious?

I dont understand the question. I dont approach these games as though there's some magical point where the game shifts from RVS to serious. Theres a wiki thread I think that talks about the early game as the Low Information stage. I like to think of it that way.

Okay? Not sure why you don’t understand. I was asking if these votes were RVS votes or serious ones? I assumed your bakslash one was based on the wording, but I just wanted to make sure. My bad if I didn’t make it clear.

I started with my role and alignment, and I voted randomly. When I made those votes, I had a page of content and most folks had popped into the thread. So I picked the opening that I felt was the most scummy and voted it. I thought padwag's vote was fine,

but the answer to the question was weird.

How was it weird? Isn’t that what RVS’ purpose is? Reactions?

But then I realized that bakslash hadnt posted already. Their first post in the game was literally to quote padwag's naked vote and put a question mark. Didn't engage with any of the content that was there, just put a weird question out.

That’s all fine. Thank you.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: padwag

I think padwag is scummier but I'll do bak for now.

VOTE: bakslash
That's E-2

Why do you think Padwag is scummy? And like Mini said, if you think he’s scummier, why wouldn’t you vote for him?

Like I said in 93, I don't like his read on Billy.
I feel like being on the bak wagon is the better move ATM.

And I’m guessing you townread Billy? Still don’t know why that’s a thing: not voting for your highest scumread. And it just seems like you’re taking an opportunity to get a wagon closer to elimination. You slightly mentioned bakslash, but never scumread him, so it just seems like opportunism at the moment.

I am testing reactions

this post actually gives off town vibes to me tbh, i can elaborate on this if someone wants (ps im not really good at articulation

What changed?

Well, my initial read was based on just a single post, so it was as weak as it could get
It followed a bunch of wrong premises so it doesn't mean anything anymore.

I have a problem with your current read on padwag given there is/was no content to make you change. If he did something you townread him for, why are you now scumreading him for doing the same thing? And I disagree, I think it does mean something, but you brushing it off isn’t gonna make me go away.

[ItalianoVD]

And where did that get you?

Haha, I was the runner up in that game.

The point I’m trying to make is I don’t think there is any correlation between scum taking hints from the town to coordinate their play and whether they win or lose. That’s an analysis that would have to be conducted and it’d be very intricate and would need a very large sample size to come up with a consensus. Because we don’t have those numbers then I’m not gonna just make those assumptions because it’s a possibility.

[ItalianoVD]

I don't have a read on Billy yet, but I'll take a look at your arguments.

Okay, that’ll be good. Look forward to what you have to say about it.

But isn't it strange that he only chose to question the vote on him, and not Mini's or Billy's?
The defensive nature kinda points to the survival aspect of a scum mindset, IMO.

This part was WRT bakslash, I did have a scumread on him.

You got all that from a question mark?

Fine, but know that I realized it was an incorrect line of thought.
When padwag posted 21, I assumed he had no knowledge of RVS, in which case it would have been bold to throw out a vote to avoid unwanted consequences (- scum). I would've expected scum padwag to blatantly point to RVS (seeing this was the reason for a previous vote) as an attempt to blend in, which didn't happen. Therefore slight town...

Why would you just assume he had no knowledge of RVS? Why wouldn’t you have asked to clear it up? This makes your arguments against padwag fallacious because everything is based on assumptive reasoning. To be clear, this is not me defending padwag, this is more so poking holes in your argument and how it’s unfair to assume something without making sure it’s the right way to think. I don’t know, you’re kinda giving me question marks in my head now. And then you’re leaning towards town now, because he didn’t respond the way you thought he would?

My recent scumread on him is based off of different premises.

Okay and what are those premises?

[ItalianoVD]

BTW, does anyone want to ask me questions? You can ask me anything.

[ItalianoVD]

Italiano, what do you think of minimegabyte? (If you have no opinion on them that's fine)

I played with Mini twice I believe and she was townie both times. I haven’t really seen her scum game before so I wouldn’t know what to look for, but as of now I’m townreading her.

If right now we were minutes away from deadline and everyone was E-1 with only you left to vote (ignore the maths on this), who would you vote for?

Pedit - this is aimed at ItalanoVD

Billy

[ItalianoVD]

I don’t think there’s anything else I’m gonna get from the bakslash slot. You’ve been putting your thoughts down and having more interactions. What are your thoughts on padwag and Rockhopper?

UNVOTE: bakslash

[ItalianoVD]

I admit I didn't explain 79 all that well. I wanted to find out what he meant when he said that he answered to avoid being scumread. Now, I didn't ask that directly, but

I do find it slightly interesting that when I drew his attention to "the first part" he snipped that part from his original quote.

After he answers I'll explain what I'm after, but I dont think this was a 3000iq play either.

For what it's worth, I did genuinely believe you were referring the first line and when going back to re-read it's easier for everyone when people pinpoint exactly the part of the quote their reply is in relation to rather than having walls of irrelevent bullshit and having people try to guess

I have no doubt that in the future when I'm re-reading the thread, post 126 will to irk me no end

You didn’t answer.

[ItalianoVD]

BTW, unvoting doesn’t mean bakslash is townread, it just means I believe my vote can be better used elsewhere.

VOTE: Billy

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry for not being here. I’ll catch up on what’s going on.

[ItalianoVD]

My justification is that you are giving analysis but it doesn't to anything. You are going with the flow and keeping up with the conversation,

I agree 100%. I was thinking this about Norfolk, but wanted to give him time, which he hasn’t done.

[ItalianoVD]

Italiano, what do you think of minimegabyte? (If you have no opinion on them that's fine)

I played with Mini twice I believe and she was townie both times. I haven’t really seen her scum game before so I wouldn’t know what to look for, but as of now I’m townreading her.

Can you talk more about this?
What do you find towny about her so far?

Well as I said I’ve played with her two times as town and she is playing similar to the way she was then. The fact that she challenged me for my RQS questioning shows she’s not worried about ruffling feathers, which I believe she knows wouldn’t be good if she was scum, given that I can tunnel hard.

[ItalianoVD]

There's a really good chance that scum exists outside of {bakslash, padwag}.

Agreed.

[ItalianoVD]

My ghost vote is on Norfolk Boy right now, but I don’t wanna put him at E-1 yet in case there’s a quickhammer.

[ItalianoVD]

Did you miss 219?

Hello? Earth to Italiano? I

'M NOT INVISIBLE, BRO

That's twice now, man. Have you not been paying attention?!

I’m not sure what you want me to say or do.

[ItalianoVD]

This was the last votecount...

Votecount 1.04

Norfolk Boy1 (2) -

Facebones, Rockhopper

Billy Pilgrim (1) -

ItalianoVD

Facebones (1) -

Billy Pilgrim

Not Voting (5) -

Bakslash, Norfolk Boy1, Dunnstral, padwag, MiniMegabyte

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-10-30 12:15:00).

VOTE: Norfolk Boy1

Here is my gut scumread

Dunnstral made it E-2. I obviously missed something o why don’t you make it clear for me to understand. You’re comments are very vague and I don’t follow.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m not sure what you want me to say or do.

I want you to realise that one of the three players who had a vote on old mate Norfolk took their vote off him and placed it on someone else

Who?

[ItalianoVD]

240 is for Facebones, not Dunnstral

[ItalianoVD]

Are you asking me what I think of your vote?

[ItalianoVD]

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

I don’t partner hunt, but you can tell

us

.

[ItalianoVD]

It’s not weak. I don’t partner hunt.

[ItalianoVD]

Intent to hammer.

[ItalianoVD]

My bad, that’s only E-2

[ItalianoVD]

And yeah after looking at it again why did you jump to Dunnstral? @Facebones

Did his lack of helping seem more scummy than the reason you voted for Norfolk?

[ItalianoVD]

Also, I have no problem with being eliminated, but lets be sensible and give it another calendar day or 2 before we go through the E1 process.

Hmm. I’m trying to figure out if this is scum-motivated or town-motivated. What do his voters think? What does everyone else think?

Post 187 didn't strike me as something scum Norfolk would do tbh,

although he could be trying to pull the wool over our eyes

. Is this what a WIFOM is?

If that’s how you feel, like if that’s in your mind then you don’t let him wiggle out of it by backing off.

And yeah after looking at it again why did you jump to Dunnstral? @Facebones

Did his lack of helping seem more scummy than the reason you voted for Norfolk?

Now I know this is partially messed up by the way i think we both messed up the vote count, but you're still on me. You feel comfortable hammering a wagon that im on?

Yes I am, because potentially getting scum is potentially getting scum; that is the goal. I have non problem doing it because the fact of the matter is I could be wrong. I don’t wanna be so focused on you that I prevent the town from reaching its goal. This sentiment rings true for everyone in the game.

[ItalianoVD]

All this unvoting is bothersome. Why do it? Especially with no explanation. Let’s put him back at E-2.

VOTE: Norfolk Boy1

[ItalianoVD]

Post 187 didn't strike me as something scum Norfolk would do tbh, although he could be trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Is this what a WIFOM is?

What about that said it wouldn't come from scum?

The fact that something stood out to him, so he went on to do some further research of you and your posting style in a different game in order to confirm/refute his thoughts

But he didn’t know Billy was scum that game, which is an important fact to miss, when trying to meta dive.

[ItalianoVD]

But he didn’t know Billy was scum that game, which is an important fact to miss,

when trying to meta dive

.

Except, as i've said twice, I wasn't interested in alignment when reviewing that old game. I was interested in the format, not the content.

Top quality misrep, though.

When Rockhopper asked the question about Billy he was trying to get help sorting him. Your response did nothing of the sort, so to me it seemed like you were just doing something just to do it.

[ItalianoVD]

Okay, all this is strange for me.

Spoiler:

Okay, let me explain.

Firstly, i'm not scum. I'm Town Tracker. I wasn't subtle in crumbing it either. If you notice, I don't really say that i'm thinking things, I say i'm seeing them:

I don't

see

an issue with putting him at E-2 (I played a game here where someone was E-2 within 20 posts) but be firm with it.

I can't

see

there being a need for super secret code within a game.

Don't be weak.

See

it through - name a name.

Post 190 supplements this, when I confirmed that I was

looking

for specific things and post 218 when I compliment Dunnstral on recognising that i'm keep tabs (tracking) everything.

I've used a slightly more obsure crumb:

Haha, I was the

runner up

in that game.

Runner, as in

track

and field.

I've also used obvious crumbs:

I didn't think it was alignment related, but as you say, it stood out. I like it as a posting style; very clean and

easy to follow.

And of course, the blatent crumb:

I like Billy P.

He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is

well worth noting down.

I’m not sure if I believe this. I think you’re really stretching it with all the “crumbs”. I’m sure everyone can go through their posts and highlight words and say they’re crumbing a role.

[ItalianoVD]

My first scum read was based on a scumslip I saw. However, it's dawned on me that it could be a townslip and i'm not willing to potentially expose the second power role.

At the time I was so sure of my initial read. That's why I moved onto looking for scum 2.

And how were we supposed to know this? You never said anything about it. This is what happens when you are vague and don’t tell us what’s on your mind.

There is no doubt that scum is on my wagon at that point, that's why I pressured Rockhopper, Dunnstral and Italiano.

Interesting that you only pressure people who are voting for/pressuring you. There’s other people in this game and I haven’t really seen you interact with them.

RQS was a great way for scum to get peoples townreads and scumtells in the open, all whilst giving off an air of scumhunting and giving him a ready made reason to scumread those that didn't comply.

I’ve already explained the point of RQS and why I did it.

He was then fixed on Billy, voting for him, casing him and saying he was likely to vote for him come days end.

That’s true, but as you know in this game things change and I felt you were more scummy than Billy. What I said about bakslash in 174 rings true for everyone.

Then, just because a mini wagon formed on me, he jumped on it with no reason of his own and has tunnelled ever since, even declaring intent when there was loads of time left.

No, I jumped on the wagon because I think you’re scum and wanted to get you eliminated.

[ItalianoVD]

Ok, im not counter-claiming but this is a bit suspect. If you're a tracker you should CC. Cops and masons should also CC. Jailkeeper, doctor, friendly neighbor all keep quiet.

Eh I don’t know if the cop or masons should fully claim their role (for obvious reasons), but just confirm that Norfolk is lying or not.

[ItalianoVD]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

Come on. No one here are mind readers. You gotta do better than this. Again your tracker claim is a role that can’t be confirmed unless there is a flip because it’s easy to fake missed tracks and just say you tracked who was night-killed. Your plea didn’t seem like you wanted to stay alive to find scum, but to simply stay alive.

My read on Mini at this stage is null, however I had a reread with scum Italiano in mind. The way he swayed from Bakslash to Billy and then seemed to settle on Norfolk after reading Dunnstral's justification seems suspicious. After that point he's been very keen to get Norfolk out. Exuberant townie or scum jumping on what he perceives to be the easiest wagon? My moneys on the latter.

Well you’re gonna go broke.

The first part of that sentence was how I felt- I didn't get scummy vibes from this post. I was saying there was a chance of him pulling the wool over our eyes, but I was doubtful of it. Pocketing attempt noted


Something seems a bit strange

Vote: ItalianoVD

No I don’t think you were doubtful of it. You said “

although he could be trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Is this what a WIFOM is?

” That last part: is this what a WIFOM is makes me think you were doubting your new townread on Norfolk and was keeping your read of him open, which is why I said what I said to you. Now you think something seems a bit strange? I have my eye on you now because I don’t think your casing is being done in good faith and your defense of Norfolk is apparent.

And pocketing? What do you mean by that? And who are you talking about?

[ItalianoVD]

I’m not comfortable letting the Norfolk slot go unchecked or unchallenged. Like I said tracker can be faked and can never actually be checked itself. If you are telling the truth, then it was an anti-town play because now you are an instant kill; we won’t get your night result and the move in essence makes you a simple powerless vanilla town.

If we do move off of you for today and you are not the night kill, then just know who I’ll be coming for on Day 2; if I’m alive.

We also can’t rule out the fact that there are Masons that know Norfolk is lying, but are willing to let it ride for now, hence the no counterclaim.

[ItalianoVD]

If nobody counterclaims him it's best we don't eliminate there today

UNVOTE: Norfolk Boy1

What’s on your mind? Where would you go if this becomes a reality?

[ItalianoVD]

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted. At the time I was ~70% sure it was a townie post, but still willing to hear the opposing side of the argument. Don't get me wrong, there is potential it was WIFOM. I was willing to sit down and have a discussion with someone, listening to their reasoning behind it and their POV. Instead all I got "if you think he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes, don't you let him wiggle out of it" which didn't really clear up anything, and felt like you were trying to guide me (arguably the least experienced player here) onto hopping onto the Norfolk elimination wagon

I don’t care if it’s a wagon or not, who’s on it, or whatever the case is. I

was

trying to guide you. I was guiding you to never just disregard the other side of your thought process, which I felt you were doing. I’ve allowed many scum/wolves to wiggle out of getting killed and they end up killing me and going on to either win or get close to winning; all because I completely let them off the hook. There’s nothing wrong with townreading or scumreading a player, just make sure it’s never an absolute read and that you are flexible to the point you’d be okay townreading your scumread and vice versa, otherwise that’s how you mislynch townies and/or let scum wiggle through unscathed. Things change quickly in these games.

BTW, I still don’t get what you were trying to solve or get from 232. I thought it was a very strange post. I also think you may be trying to use your “inexperience” to get over, but that’s just my gut. That’s how your posts sound after doing your iso.

[ItalianoVD]

If that’s how you feel, like if that’s in your mind then you don’t let him wiggle out of it by backing off.

There’s nothing wrong with townreading or scumreading a player, just make sure it’s never an absolute read and that you are flexible to the point you’d be okay townreading your scumread and vice versa

These posts are contradictory. In one you're saying that if any part of my mind says a player could be scum it's important to not let them off the hook by backing off.

Then in the other you're saying if any part of my mind says a player is scum, I shouldn't absolutely discount the chance they are town because the game evolves quickly and it's important to be flexible and open minded.

Which one is it?

*sigh* No, they’re saying the same thing, it just changes the perspective. The first quote is about this game. You townread Norfolk and were willing to disregard a possible scumread. The second quote was about mafia in general. If you townread a player don’t disregard a possible scumread. If you scumread and player don’t disregard a possible townread. Come on I’ve already explained this!

Also, in regards to 232, I thought it was interesting that you either didn't read my post or just blatantly ignored it for the second time this game

What post did I ignore? Second time? I don’t remember a first. Did you ask me a question I missed? I did an ISO on you to try to see what you’re talking about and found nothing. Post 219 was for Dunnstral, not me, so why would I respond to it. Are you sure I was the one you were meaning to ask this? You have had a couple of instances of mixing people up. I’m truly lost here. Can anyone else help me out here?

[ItalianoVD]

Hey wiyvern, welcome to the game!

Let’s make things interesting with some RQS

For those that don’t know, RQS is called Random Questioning Stage and it has its advantages. And this is for everyone in the playerlist. Non answers get scumread.

1. What is your overall mafia experience? Not just on this site.
2. Do you prefer playing scum/wolf or town/village?
3. In your opinion, what are some of the top things to look for when scumhunting?
4. When townhunting?
5. Is it easy or difficult for you to lie?

[ItalianoVD]

Norfolk Boy 1- Town. He claimed tracker and there hasn't been a cc. I don't see any reason to lynch him.

Fair enough.

Facebones- Town. I've liked their posts, and they seem to be solving pretty well. I also agreed with a lot if things they saud when I was reading through everything.

What does solving pretty well mean to you?

Rockhopper- Slight Town. Basically for the same reasons as Facebones, but to a lesser extent. And tbh, I'm not entirely sure I agreed with things they said because them and Facebones started to blur together after some time. I might iso them seperately later so I get a better idea, but for now, I think this is good.

So he’s slightly less town because you don’t agree with his posts? Blur together? Could you explain that?

Billy Pilgrim- Very Slight Town. Man, I've been flip-flopping around with this slot so much. I originally town read them a little bit, then some posts of theirs pinged me, and eventually I went back to just town reading them. It's kind of a gut read ig.

What were those posts that pinged you?

Dunnstral- Null(mostly). They exist. I don't think they've done that much, but I got to admit, none of their posts seem necessarily bad to me, so if I had to call them town or mafia, I'd say town.

Don’t have a problem with this.

Bakslash- Null probably. I really just don't remember a lot from them, so I don't have much to say. Will probably iso later.

What will an iso do if they haven’t said much?

ItalianoVD- Leaning Scum. They seem to be agreeing with a lot of stuff. From their posts, I don't remember seeing a ton of individual thoughts not said by others ready. IIRC they made two or three consecutive posts saying they agreed with something. I'm not saying you can't ever agree with anyone, but I feel like Italiano might be agreeing a bit too much.

In 227, I agreed with Dunnstral’s 217 about Norfolk and in 230, I agreed with Rockhopper’s 183 about padwag and bakslash. Where else have I agreed a lot about?

MiniMegabyte- Scum. I flip flopped on her originally, but after I read through the game more and more, my scumread on her grew more and more. It's mostly because I don't feel like they've contributed much. A lot of their posts(iirc) have been more like fluff posts and/or not related to reads and game advancing stuff.

How is Mini different from Dunnstral and bakslash?

Overall this feels like a scum-motivated readslist, especially the vote. Easy for scum to vote for the inactive and no content slot. But we have time to discuss it thanks to the pause/reset.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm liking the look of a mini/italiano scum team and these are worth reading again:

Good case, but smh.

*mini RVS votes italiano and they have a chat - excellent distancing posting to make it look like they haven't spoken in a while (posts 15, 36, 37)

Excellent distance posting?? Really? I don’t think that’s what that is. And we

haven’t

spoken in a while. I can’t speak for Mini, but I was genuine.

*mini 'questions' RQS and italiano doesn't grill the responses as he did with the Town Tracker (posts 40, 49, 64 and 65)

Interesting framing by the way:

italiano doesn't grill the responses as he did with the Town Tracker

The town tracker? I don’t know if you’re the town tracker. You say you are, but fmpov you could not be. It’s not a bad thing to be skeptical imo, especially on day 1.

The thing is Mini answered all the questions, you didn’t. I was grilling you and Rockhopper for not answering. And just to be clear, that’s NOT why I started to scumread you. Sure it made me think “what do these people have to hide?” but as I said to Facebones the “non answers get scumread” bit was me being facetious. I wanted people to answer because most don’t.

*both call out Dunstrall in sync (posts 61 and 66)

Okay? And?

*mini tries to wriggle out of her earlier 'questioning' (post 98)

I’ll let Mini respond to this.

*both pressure Rockhopper in sync (posts 99 and 102)

Okay? And?

*Italiano chucks out a townread on mini with no reasoning beyond "she's always been town before" (post 171)

Really? In 229 I responded to Rockhopper and said this: “Well as I said I’ve played with her two times as town and she is playing similar to the way she was then. The fact that she challenged me for my RQS questioning shows she’s not worried about ruffling feathers, which I believe she knows wouldn’t be good if she was scum, given that I can tunnel hard.”

Also, both are still voting for a claimed town PR despite nobody offering a counter. Billy at least offered a reason for not believing my claim, even though my claim has a 50/50 chance of being immediately uncovered (which it won't, because it's the truth, as they both know).

It’s clear you are reading my posts with bias. “Billy at least offered a reason for not believing my claim”...

So these aren’t reasons I guess? 308, 324, 337 Are you disregarding them? Let me know.

[ItalianoVD]

Alright, so the goofy thing about pre-flip associations and trying to solve for both partners on Day 1 is you can case literally anyone in the game. I can case Norfolk and Rockhopper together, Norfolk and Facebones, Billy and Dunnstral, padwag/wiyvern and bakslash, just to name a few. This is why I don’t partner hunt because you go in thinking you have the game solved and realize that you’re wrong and then you feel like an idiot. Norfolk, why weren’t you curious as to why I don’t partner hunt? You immediately dismissed it as a scumtell. I can’t speak for Mini, but I am 100% not scum and if you actually ISO’d me, you’d see this; well it wouldn’t be 100% fypov, but you get what I’m saying.

You think we’re scum partners. There’s another possibility that you aren’t allowing for. We’re both town and I am comfortable interacting with her and possibly sheeping her because I feel her thoughts come from a townie mindset.

[ItalianoVD]

Very discreet

What’s very discreet?

[ItalianoVD]

Very discreet

What’s very discreet?

Post 356.

How so?

[ItalianoVD]

Nice welcome to the game Norwegianboy.

Alright Norfolk at this point with no counterclaim this late into the day I’ll have to believe you for now.

Yeah let’s get on this

VOTE: Wiyvern

[ItalianoVD]

Happy you’re here man. I’ll go back and answer your questions, gimme a minute.

[ItalianoVD]

Norfolk Boy 1- Town. He claimed tracker and there hasn't been a cc. I don't see any reason to lynch him.

Fair enough.

@Italiano
Do you scumread Norfolk still, even though most players seems to believe their claim and there's been no CC?

It wouldn’t make sense to at this point to. We’ll see what happens as the game progresses.

[ItalianoVD]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

Come on. No one here are mind readers. You gotta do better than this. Again your tracker claim is a role that can’t be confirmed unless there is a flip because it’s easy to fake missed tracks and just say you tracked who was night-killed. Your plea didn’t seem like you wanted to stay alive to find scum, but to simply stay alive.

I really don't like your continuing voting Norfolk. I get that Billy can be the stubborn type, but you as well? Why don't you believe their tracker claim?

Yeah I am actually. I can be flexible when it makes sense to, but I always keep WIFOM in the back of my head in case it comes up again.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m only giving my townreads for now. Not saying locktown, but kinda close to it. Billy (Norwegian), Dunnstral, and Mini. Everyone else is either null or scum.

I do want to backtrack on something I said in 337 where I said I’d go after Norfolk on Day 2 if he survived. That’s a very, very bad take and I want to make it known that I won’t be that short-sighted. My apologies.

[ItalianoVD]

I’ve been going back and forth on Rock the whole game. It’s just something there that I can’t seem to lockdown.

His padwag(wiyvern) and bakslash reads are strange. I’ll go back and show what I’m talking about.

[ItalianoVD]

It starts out with him voting padwag and then quickly changing to bakslash in 94 and 96

Then he has a number of interactions regarding these votes and reads that progresses from 107 to 109 to 114 to 143 to 167

Then he votes for padwag again in 145 and then posts 183, which I agreed with at the time because it made sense.

Now in 428 he has them back as his scumreads.

Maybe you can make sense of that. I’m torn between it being inconsistent townie second guessing himself on his reads or inconsistent scum that is blatantly making mistakes.

[ItalianoVD]

Sadly not.

When looking at the E1 wagon that formed on me, do any of the people on that wagon ping you as scum? I struggle to believe that it's 4 town, voting town with 3 scum watching and laughing.

I think the only way scum is on your wagon is if you are scum. Scum want towncred and get it by bussing. However they more than likely don’t want to be on a large town wagon if they can help it. I think this was just an instance of town working together. This is of course going with the thought that you are town. On that note you have to look at who jumped off your wagon.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m off to hospital so I will get on when I can but I may be less active

Hope everything’s okay with you. Take care.

[ItalianoVD]

Only null? Hmmm...?

You are now a slight scumread.

Why?

[ItalianoVD]

Anyway, here is why I'm voting Italiano currently:

Spoiler:

I am testing reactions

this post actually gives off town vibes to me tbh, i can elaborate on this if someone wants (ps im not really good at articulation

What changed?

Well, my initial read was based on just a single post, so it was as weak as it could get
It followed a bunch of wrong premises so it doesn't mean anything anymore.

I have a problem with your current read on padwag given there is/was no content to make you change. If he did something you townread him for, why are you now scumreading him for doing the same thing? And I disagree, I think it does mean something, but you brushing it off isn’t gonna make me go away.

This caught my interest. Rockhoppers explained his read was weak due to it being based off one post, and when he changed his mind Italiano had a problem with it, saying there wasn't enough content to make him change his mind. Content from who? Padwag? It was a weak read, based off one post. Other players had contributed more which could've potentially painted them in a more townie light juxtaposed to Padwag's lack of content, but we won't talk about that- only the fact that Padwag hadn't posted enough to make someone change their mind on their weak initial read.

My justification is that you are giving analysis but it doesn't to anything. You are going with the flow and keeping up with the conversation,

I agree 100%. I was thinking this about Norfolk, but wanted to give him time, which he hasn’t done.

As it has been said before, this could've easily been said of at least 3 different players. Why agree 100% on Norfolk and blindly disregard the others going with the flow? He saw the wagon there when Dunnstral briefly made it E-2 and ever since then it's been

My ghost vote is on Norfolk Boy right now, but I don’t wanna put him at E-1 yet in case there’s a quickhammer.

I don’t partner hunt, but you can tell

us

.

(The use of winky faces and faces with sunglasses are coming off more arrogant than facetious at this point in time)

Intent to hammer.

Now I know this is partially messed up by the way i think we both messed up the vote count, but you're still on me. You feel comfortable hammering a wagon that im on?

Yes I am, because potentially getting scum is potentially getting scum; that is the goal. I have non problem doing it because the fact of the matter is I could be wrong. I don’t wanna be so focused on you that I prevent the town from reaching its goal. This sentiment rings true for everyone in the game.

What happened to this?

Still don’t know why that’s a thing: not voting for your highest scumread.

Post 187 didn't strike me as something scum Norfolk would do tbh,

although he could be trying to pull the wool over our eyes

. Is this what a WIFOM is?

If that’s how you feel, like if that’s in your mind then you don’t let him wiggle out of it by backing off.

I've gone through this one before, how I thought he was trying to guide me onto the wagon and blahblahblah.

All this unvoting is bothersome. Why do it? Especially with no explanation. Let’s put him back at E-2.

VOTE: Norfolk Boy1

Again, it feels like he's trying to guide people onto the wagon.


Norfolk then claims town tracker.

I’m not sure if I believe this. I think you’re really stretching it with all the “crumbs”. I’m sure everyone can go through their posts and highlight words and say they’re crumbing a role.

It seems like Italiano wasn't expecting this and was taken off guard, but still trying to convince everyone that Norfolk is scum and to vote for him despite the claim which he crumbed.

He was then fixed on Billy, voting for him, casing him and saying he was likely to vote for him come days end.

That’s true, but as you know in this game things change and I felt you were more scummy than Billy. What I said about bakslash in 174 rings true for everyone.

This seems like a very convenient excuse for him to hop from wagon to wagon, sussing out townies to see which one has the best chance of getting eliminated- "I'm not townreading them, but my vote is better off elsewhere."

It wasn't until this point Italiano changes his mind:

Norfolk Boy 1- Town. He claimed tracker and there hasn't been a cc. I don't see any reason to lynch him.

Fair enough.

@Italiano
Do you scumread Norfolk still, even though most players seems to believe their claim and there's been no CC?

After this, Norway and Rockhopper vote Wiyvern after 5 posts, and naturally Italiano realises the chances of getting Norfolk eliminated D1 will be a struggle so jumps on the next easy wagon.

Nice welcome to the game Norwegianboy.

Alright Norfolk at this point with no counterclaim this late into the day I’ll have to believe you for now.

Yeah let’s get on this

VOTE: Wiyvern

Something doesn't add up for me.

I think you may be missing the point about Rockhopper.

This caught my interest. Rockhoppers explained his read was weak due to it being based off one post, and when he changed his mind Italiano had a problem with it, saying there wasn't enough content to make him change his mind.

Yup

Content from who? Padwag?

Precisely.

It was a weak read, based off one post. Other players had contributed more which could've potentially painted them in a more townie light juxtaposed to Padwag's lack of content, but we won't talk about that-

only the fact that Padwag hadn't posted enough to make someone change their mind on their weak initial read.

Again yes. That was the point. There was no content. If he was townleaning padwag because of his 21 post then unless there is “new” content from padwag that makes Rockhopper think...”hmm, that’s weird, or that’s strange, etc.” then to me he should have either kept townreading him or at the very least just null read him, move off of him and try to sort the other slots. But he changed from a townread to a scumread using the same information. That’s pretty drastic.

Let’s contrast that with my activity on bakslash. When I voted for him in 95 it was to put pressure on the slot. I was hoping he would come in and be more active and provide more content so I could try to sort the slot. But he didn’t and the only post he made after his wagon built up was a nai post that I couldn’t use as solid information to solidify my read, but at that time Billy started pinging my radar which I stated in 106 and then in more detail in 110. So I moved off of bakslash and onto Billy. Then Billy started to make more sense, post more content I agreed with, and began playing like I thought a townie would play despite me never having played with him. I didn’t townread him though. Dunnstral’s overall read of Norfolk made sense to me because I had done an iso on him (Norfolk) and that is what I had come up with.

As it has been said before, this could've easily been said of at least 3 different players. Why agree 100% on Norfolk and blindly disregard the others going with the flow? He saw the wagon there when Dunnstral briefly made it E-2 and ever since then it's been

Actually no. At the time: Mini, Dunnstral, padwag, and bakslash were not that active. They would come in post one or two times and then be gone for over a day. Norfolk was actually posting content, was way more active than those players, and had more to get a read on. That’s why I fully agreed with Dunnstral.

As far as my voting, I’m fine with it. I’d do it the same way if I could do it again. Regarding the wagon hopping? What are you gonna do? If it makes sense, it makes sense. All the people I voted for or am voting for makes sense in my mind that they are/were scum. I’m not gonna vote for someone I townread, unless the situation calls for it and it depends on how strongly I townread that player. But if you‘re gonna townread people for being first voter on a wagon or scumread people for jumping wagons then I assure you it will hurt your future scumhunting on this site.

The fact of the matter is I have nothing to hide. Just ask me man, don’t assume stuff

[ItalianoVD]

What are your current reads Facebones?

[ItalianoVD]

But he changed from a townread to a scumread using the same information. That’s pretty drastic.

I didn't tho

My bad bro, I should have said that’s the way

I

perceived it.

[ItalianoVD]

Italiano isn't dying today. Can someone get wiyvern to E-1 so he can claim?

Kind of strange wording here.

Italiano isn't dying today. Can someone get wiyvern to E-1 so he can claim?

is anyone even voting italiano? and why do you specifically want to get me to e-1 to claim?

Noted.

[ItalianoVD]

@bakslash: I know you’re new but can you try to give us a rundown of what you think about the players in this game? What stands out to you? Right now I just see you asking people why they scumread you. What else is on your mind?

[ItalianoVD]

It starts out with him voting padwag and then quickly changing to bakslash in 94 and 96

Then he has a number of interactions regarding these votes and reads that progresses from 107 to 109 to 114 to 143 to 167

Then he votes for padwag again in 145 and then posts 183, which I agreed with at the time because it made sense.

Now in 428 he has them back as his scumreads.

Maybe you can make sense of that. I’m torn between it being inconsistent townie second guessing himself on his reads or inconsistent scum that is blatantly making mistakes.

To be clear, padwag and backslash were both scumreads at that point and have been so ever since, I only switched (94,96) because I thought wagons were more valuable than single votes. But it didn't look like it was going anywhere (116), so I moved back to padwag (stronger scumread). I found Norfolk and mini pretty suspicious too, but their slots have improved from my perspective, unlike pad/wiyv and bak.

What did you find contradictory here?

My apologies, I completely missed this at the bottom of 167:

My townread was based on how 21 was a bit unrestricted for scum.
My scumread was based on how 63 was too quick for town.

I get it now.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm getting more townie feels from rockhopper currently

Wanna form a townblock?

Italiano what do you think about Rock asking Facebones to townblock here?

Yeah I saw that. Umm, I’m not sure what to solidly think about it. I feel scum could be within Facebones/Rockhopper. Probably not both of them though. If I had to guess Rockhopper was the townie asking the scum to townblock.

Also, I probably won't be awake for the end of the day, so please don't hammer me if I don't claim if someone declares intent

I really don't like this. It's very flimsy.

If we applied this rule to the whole playlist, we'd only have 4 players to choose from.

How is that? You think it’s alignment indicative?

I'm still not townreading Italiano. Post 451 is either manipulative or condescending (or both) and is deliberately putting me down a path of Dunnstral and Rockhopper. Italiano is townreading Dunnstral according to post 437, so it's either an attempt to push me into voting Rockhopper and kickstart that wagon or its an effort to position me for more poor quality 'scumreading'.

Micc, please can we have a votecount?

Duly noted, but there are other people in the game besides me. 451 was simply my take on events.

You said you don’t know where to vote. You gonna figure that out soon? And why do you need a votecount to vote?

[ItalianoVD]

My top picks for elimination today would be either Wiyvern or Facebones. Though an Wiyvern/Facebones solve seems a bit too easy.

Yeah I’d say so. I could probably also go for Rock if I had to.

An Face/Rock team seems exceedingly unlikely though, because of that blatant "townblocking" post from Rock earlier.

I agree with this.

[ItalianoVD]

You said you don’t know where to vote. You gonna figure that out soon? And why do you need a votecount to vote?

Yep, that's all I needed.

VOTE: Italiano

I feel like you’re just tunneling and not even trying to solve at this point.

[ItalianoVD]

What are your current reads Norfolk?

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry everyone I will catch up as soon as I can I’m just in hospital with a fractured neck and back

My gosh, take care of yourself Mini

[ItalianoVD]

Good to hear.

[ItalianoVD]

Thinking out loud:

If scum gets to E-1 no one expects them to say “yup I’m scum...” They’ll probably just claim vanilla townie or try to fake a pr...

Where the gamestate is now, what is the strategy going to be for when we do get to E-1 and there is another town claim, we back off, and then there is another player who gets to E-1; another town claim, another back off, etc. I don’t know think we’re gonna have the time to keep doing that. This rule is wayyy different than what I’m used to.

I think we need to consolidate, but we need to have something in place for the scenario I just described above. I don’t want us to hang a townie, but if everyone claims townie (hypothetical) then we’ll be at a stalemate.

@Norfolk: Is this what you were saying in 531?

[ItalianoVD]

Where the gamestate is now, what is the strategy going to be for when we do get to E-1 and there is another town claim, we back off, and then there is another player who gets to E-1; another town claim, another back off, etc. I don’t know think we’re gonna have the time to keep doing that. This rule is wayyy different than what I’m used to.

Wut? Are you saying we'll not eliminate someone if they claim VT?
Or are you expecting all scum to claim PR when they could easily be counterclaimed eventually if they lie?

Yeah pretty much. I could just be overthinking it. I don’t know it’s just a feeling I have, especially when the deadline is so close. Like I said it’s just a different mechanic than I’m used to.

[ItalianoVD]

Rockhopper, wanna vote scum with me?

You should vote Wiyvern so we can get the them to E-1

Mini, when you’re back on can you vote Wiyvern.

My god, he can be bossy. People, you don't have to vote for Wiyvern just because Norway wants you to. If you think other people are scummier, feel free to place your vote elsewhere. Be the captain of your own ship, yo

Geez, this is a scummy post or at least anti-town. The deadline is coming up and you’d rather have people vote haphazardly? A town needs to be cohesive. Seems you don’t want that to happen.

[ItalianoVD]

For me, I still prefer an Italiano elimination, but would change to a Wiyvern or Dunstrall vote if it becomes clear that's where we're heading.

I would also vote Rockhopper if absolutely necessary. But only in a hammer or no elimination scenario.

What about Facebones?

@wiyvern: what are your thoughts on Facebones?

[ItalianoVD]

It looks like here are 4 ghost votes on Facebones at the moment (Mini, wiyvern, myself, Norwegian) Gotta wait for Rock, Dunn, and bakslash to come in and see what they say. Face was already scum in my Face/Rock coupling and over the last few pages it’s clear for me that I’d rather go for Facebones than wiyvern.

[ItalianoVD]

Mini just said they'd be willing to vote you.

Well, being willing to vote is not the same as intent to hammer.

[ItalianoVD]

Lets see if Facebones hammers wiyvern.

[ItalianoVD]

This is what I mean. It’s okay though.

VOTE: Facebones

[ItalianoVD]

Mini and wiyvern still on?

[ItalianoVD]

Face is at E-2. We don’t have time for a claim so if we want to actually get an elimination we have to move swiftly.

[ItalianoVD]

Rock if you’re on vote for Facebones.

[ItalianoVD]

NorwegianboyEE is probably scum

norw is scscum

If he is, we will figure it out, but as of right now I don’t think so. And I know I’m not scum, so Facebones attempt to team us up is misleading. If someone is going to counterclaim you have about 90 or so minutes left. Rock unvoting is telling.

[ItalianoVD]

That’s hammer.

[ItalianoVD]

Rock, u think i’m scum but encourage hammer on Facebones?
UNVOTE:

Pedit:
God damn it.

What is this?

[ItalianoVD]

I know I can't case norwe and actually push an elim on him
But I reaaallly feel like he's scum

Because? Get your thoughts out before cabd locks the thread.

[ItalianoVD]

At first I thought that about Rockhopper. I saw that, but then I read it again and it seemed like he was posting that from the point of view of scum with an outside townie’s perspective. Kinda like how he thought scum would react. I didn’t mention it because of this. You have a point though it may have actually been a slip.

[ItalianoVD]

I know I can't case norwe and actually push an elim on him
But I reaaallly feel like he's scum

Because? Get your thoughts out before cabd locks the thread.

Facebones is town

How are you so sure?

[ItalianoVD]

I used to dismiss Masons as pointless but they brilliantly beat me in my last game, so I saw it as a key point.

Yes Masons can be a very powerful team if you have the right people.

[ItalianoVD]

Hmm. Interesting results. Don’t know where I’m going right now. I’ll be back later to see what I can find from vca.

[ItalianoVD]

Hmm. Interesting results. Don’t know where I’m going right now. I’ll be back later to see what I can find from vca.

I didn't know you were the VCA type.
How accurate do you tend to be might i ask?

Ive been doing vca for years, but didn’t know it was called that until I came here. It’s done a little different here, but the concepts are the same. I’m fairly accurate, but it does make it a lot easier when you flip scum.

[ItalianoVD]

The three Day 1 wagons that got to L-1: Norfolk, Facebones, and wiyvern were all town wagons.

[ItalianoVD]

We also know Facebones and wiyvern are town and I think one scum was on all three wagons. I’m not sure about Rockhopper.

[ItalianoVD]

Hmm. Interesting results. Don’t know where I’m going right now. I’ll be back later to see what I can find from vca.

I didn't know you were the VCA type.
How accurate do you tend to be might i ask?

Ive been doing vca for years, but didn’t know it was called that until I came here. It’s done a little different here, but the concepts are the same. I’m fairly accurate, but it does make it a lot easier when you flip scum.

This is actually pretty interesting. What are your vca reads?

Facebones - Vanilla Townie

Wiyvern - Doctor

Norwegianboy

-
Norfolk - Tracker
Rockhopper - Vanilla Townie???
Dunnstral - Vanilla Townie

Mini

-
Italiano - Vanilla Townie

Bakslash

-

Dunn hammered. Scum usually don’t like hammering, especially on a townie. Dunn is town. I am town. Norfolk is town and we have the two dead townies, which leaves the bolded and Rockhopper who I can’t solidify.

Both bakslash and Mini were reluctant to hammer. Norwegian/Billy was on all three L-1 wagons. If Norwegian is scum then I’d say his partner is more likely to be bakslash than Mini. Norwegian and Mini voted together four times. I don’t think both scum would vote together on Day 1 like that. Norwegian and bakslash makes more sense based on the voting and the flips we have.

Now if Rockhopper is scum then I believe it’s the same. Partner is probably Mini or bakslash. Rockhopper/Norwegian is a possible partner distancing play that we can’t just overlook imo. I’m guessing Rockhopper is townie though. Probably where my vote is going today.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Norwegian

[ItalianoVD]

Actually no

VOTE: bakslash

[ItalianoVD]

If Norwegian is scum, Norway tracked him nowhere, which means his partner did the kill. He also wouldn’t be the rolecop. Bakslash is a scum partner in every scenario.

[ItalianoVD]

If we mislynch we are in Lylo with 2 scum. I agree, I think we need to take as much time as we have to make sure we hit scum today.

Also who’s the least likely player scum would want in Lylo?

[ItalianoVD]

@Norwegian: Why is it pretty bad if someone decides to push the 50% possibility that you’re scum instead of town? 50% less likely to be scum does not clear you. If you’re scum it could have been your partner doing the kill as I said, but no one knows that. Also, Rockhopper voted for you before he had the info from Norfolk.

@Norfolk: I’m curious as to why you tracked Norwegian instead of me when it seemed as if I was your highest scumread? Seems like something you’d want to check.

[ItalianoVD]

Also i see Rockhopper constantly being online in the activity list but not posting anything even though the conversation's about him.
You can come out of the scum PT now Rock. It's ok.

I don’t like this. Also online activity is a sham, you know this.

[ItalianoVD]

If Norwegian is scum, Norway tracked him nowhere, which means his partner did the kill. He also wouldn’t be the rolecop. Bakslash is a scum partner in every scenario.

So you’re saying Norwegian/backslash as a scum team?

I’m saying it’s a possibility.

Possible associations:

Norwegian/bakslash
Rockhopper/Mini
Rockhopper/bakslash
Mini/bakslash
Rockhopper/Norwegian

The last one is the least likely imo, but also one I’m not gonna brush off like it can’t happen.

[ItalianoVD]

Bakslash is a scum partner in every scenario.

Makes sense from your perspective. But I'm not fully convinced about how a Mini/Norw team is a less likely matchup.

I don’t think both scum would have been voting together. On Day 1. On a wagon that could have very well been flipped. That’s not smart scum play

Votecount 1.02

bakslash (3) -

padwag, ItalianoVD, Rockhopper

ItalianoVD (2) -

MiniMegabyte, Billy Pilgrim

Norfolk Boy1 (1) -

Facebones

Not Voting (3) -

Bakslash, Norfolk Boy1, Dunnstral

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-10-30 12:15:00).

Votecount 1.06

Norfolk Boy1 (4) -

Dunnstral,

Billy Pilgrim

, ItalianoVD,

MiniMegabyte

Dunnstral (2) -

Facebones, Bakslash

MiniMegabyte (1) -

Rockhopper

ItalianoVD (1) -

Norfolk Boy1

Not Voting (1) -

padwag

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-10-30 12:15:00).

Votecount 1.07

Norfolk Boy1 (4) -

Dunnstral, ItalianoVD,

MiniMegabyte

,

Billy Pilgrim

ItalianoVD (2) -

Norfolk Boy1, Facebones

Dunnstral (1) -

Bakslash

MiniMegabyte (1) -

Rockhopper

Not Voting (1) -

padwag

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is paused at 13 hours.

Votecount 1.08

Norfolk Boy1 (3) -

ItalianoVD,

MiniMegabyte

,

Billy Pilgrim

ItalianoVD (2) -

Norfolk Boy1, Facebones

Dunnstral (1) -

Bakslash

MiniMegabyte (1) -

Rockhopper

Not Voting (1) -

padwag, Dunnstral

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is paused at 2 days.

[ItalianoVD]

Dunn hammered. Scum usually don’t like hammering, especially on a townie. Dunn is town.

Seriously? Dunn hammered an wagon when there was barely any time left. Do you think any scum would just stand idly by in that scenario because "scum don’t like to hammer"?

I could be wrong on Dunn, but I don’t think I am. From what I’ve seen on this site, scum don’t mind hammering if it’s their partner and even then there’s some reluctance. On a townie? Nope.

[ItalianoVD]

Votecount 1.07

Norfolk Boy1 (4) -

Dunnstral, ItalianoVD, MiniMegabyte, Billy Pilgrim

ItalianoVD (2) -

Norfolk Boy1, Facebones

Dunnstral (1) -

Bakslash

MiniMegabyte (1) -

Rockhopper

Not Voting (1) -

padwag

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is paused at 13 hours.

If everyone on Norfolk is town then the scumteam is (Rockhopper/bakslash)

If Billy/Norwegian is scum his partner was off wagon (bakslash/Rockhopper)

If Mini is scum her partner was off wagon (bakslash/Rockhopper)

I’m not scum and I believe Dunn is not scum. This is why I said what I said in 451. It wasn’t manipulation, it was a scenario where everyone on your wagon was town, which is not an impossibility. Many times town wagons are pushed by town. Scum can and do hide in there, but I don’t see it in newbie games. Scum wanna look as town as possible and warrant the least amount of attention.

[ItalianoVD]

Dunn hammered. Scum usually don’t like hammering, especially on a townie. Dunn is town.

Seriously? Dunn hammered an wagon when there was barely any time left. Do you think any scum would just stand idly by in that scenario because "scum don’t like to hammer"?

I could be wrong on Dunn, but I don’t think I am. From what I’ve seen on this site, scum don’t mind hammering if it’s their partner and even then there’s some reluctance. On a townie? Nope.

Your answer didn’t actually address my point.

My bad. Are you asking if I think scum wouldn’t hammer in that scenario or that they would?

[ItalianoVD]

I believe you’re town Italiano, but if i see bad logic from you i am going to call it out.

Thats fair, I want you too. If I’m off in something I’d expect to be set straight.

[ItalianoVD]

Dunn hammered. Scum usually don’t like hammering, especially on a townie. Dunn is town.

Seriously? Dunn hammered an wagon when there was barely any time left. Do you think any scum would just stand idly by in that scenario because "scum don’t like to hammer"?

I could be wrong on Dunn, but I don’t think I am. From what I’ve seen on this site, scum don’t mind hammering if it’s their partner and even then there’s some reluctance. On a townie? Nope.

Your answer didn’t actually address my point.

My bad. Are you asking if I think scum wouldn’t hammer in that scenario or that they would?

It was close to deadline and thus while i’m not necesarilly arguing Dunnstral is scum, i think that townbinning them for that reason alone is an mistake.
Any scum might hammer in that scenario due to time remaining justifying it.

That is true. I just don’t know if it’s the case here. Like I said I could be wrong and Dunn actually is scum. I’ve seen town players play exactly like him and the fact that he isn’t new makes me think it even more. It’s more gut than anything.

[ItalianoVD]

Okay, that’s not bad reasoning. You’re wrong about me though, but that’s not bad reasoning at all.

[ItalianoVD]

Also what on earth...

In 679 Dunn didn’t know what was going on when he said “when did that happen” in response to wiyvern’s 676. However...

Spoiler:

If nobody counterclaims him it's best we don't eliminate there today

UNVOTE: Norfolk Boy1

Bruh. What is this?

[ItalianoVD]

Still. That’s a major event in the game to forget.

[ItalianoVD]

Okay, that’s not bad reasoning. You’re wrong about me though, but that’s not bad reasoning at all.

This is why you keep pinging me. This reads like an endorsement of my post, which I don't want or need.

Unfortunately I can’t help you with your trust issues bud. I asked a question, you answered it, I thought it was a good answer and so I mention that. I see you still have a problem with me and it’s pretty annoying now. Get over yourself

[ItalianoVD]

Italiano, just to clarify. Are you voting Bakslash becase you genuinely scumread their behaviour or because you believe they are a likely partner to me? and if so, why vote them and not me?

Unfortunately the players I thought were the scummiest were both town. I believe bakslash is the partner in multiple scenarios fmpov, but I don’t necessarily scumread him. I could go for Rockhopper or Mini as well. You are the least likely of the scenarios imo.

These are my likely scenarios from most likely to least likely:

Rockhopper/bakslash
Rockhopper/Mini
Mini/bakslash
Norwegian/bakslash or Norwegian/Rockhopper

As I said, Day 1’s actions and my gut tells me Dunn is town, so I’ll only be comfortable placing my votes on the slots above.

[ItalianoVD]

The justification is kinda weird, not gonna lie.

Why would you lie? I never said anyone was more scummy than anyone else.

[ItalianoVD]

I'd currently like to see us eliminating from the top down.

If Rockhopper is scum then great, if not, lynching me ends the game.

[ItalianoVD]

Rockhopper/Norwegian is a possible partner distancing play that we can’t just overlook imo

Why the shifty eyes?

[ItalianoVD]

What did you mean by this?

No one dies in the end if we don't have a complete ship, and that's bad in most scenarios since 3v2 is better than 4v2

Why and how is 3v2 better than 4v2?

[ItalianoVD]

Bakslash has been E-1 for a while now. Can someone sell me on why they're scum. Cus i'm not seeing it.

Why don’t you tell us?

Spoiler:

I do agree on your read of Bakslash and Mini. They have both been actively lurking. Just popping in at various times with not very informative posts. One of Rocks partners is probably in there. It could be Mini and he’s trying to force an false association with me.

I’d probably be willing to vote any of Mini/Bakslash if it came down to it. As i don’t really townread any of them and by PoE they do need to go at some point. But my most preferred vote is Rock at the moment.

As I asked Rockhopper. What changed your read or your compromise?

[ItalianoVD]

Norwegianboy, if you really are town, I think you should vote for bakslash. If you think I'm scum just for my last second push on facebones, you should understand how impractical it would have been for me to make a good case on face (given there was paranoia on {me,face}) and then a good case on you (given you're an SE and there were only 2 hours left on the clock) risking a no elimination. If not, your SR seems very omgussy and you should reevaluate.

Not sure what SE has to do with it. Rockhopper? Are you town? Are you 100% unadulterated vanilla townie?

[ItalianoVD]

Okay no one vote or the scum can quick vote together and it’s game over! Let’s try to figure this out.

[ItalianoVD]

Here is who we have left. Fmpov:

Rockhopper - ???
Mini - ???
Norwegian - ???
Dunnstral - town
Italiano - town

3 town and 2 scum. I know I’m town and I’m gut reading Dunnstral as town. I can’t actually read Mini, I’ve been torn all game about Rockhopper and Norwegian is only scum if I use poe, otherwise not scummy at all. The hammer looked bad, but geez. If I had to just pick who would be townie out of the three, I’d really have to go with Norwegian. Someone give me a good reason to vote Rockhopper. Alternatively, Rockhopper give me good reason NOT to vote for you.

[ItalianoVD]

I think it’s probably just Mini and Rock.

I think it’s probably just Mini and Norw.

Really?

[ItalianoVD]

I’m thinking Rock’s partner is Mini based on voting patterns yesterday and they know i have to be miseliminated for him to win. So they’re really trying to tie me to Mini here.

Voting patterns? They voted together, like you and Mini did Day 1. Why is it different for Rock, but not you?

[ItalianoVD]

Norfolk Boy was confirmed town and he wanted Rockhopper yesterday. I should have just stayed there but the day took fucking forever and Bakslash wasn’t even playing. Nobody really was. I should have recognized the signs but it was really just scum stalling out the wagon.
I’m banking the game on Rock/Mini.
Mini just is so quiet and uninteractive which i’m thinking is newb!scum trait. Rock just feels scummy with their constant pushing and opportunistic voting.
VOTE: Rockhopper

Norfolk is wrong about me and he was pretty adamant about how sure he thought he was. He could be wrong again. Why base your movement on that? So it’s newb!scum for Mini, but not bakslash?

I don't see Bakslash as scum. There's lurking and there's being so absent that it radiates. Do scum draw attention to themselves like that?

Yeah, in my experience scum rarely plays like they do. There's scum lurking (and they usually show to have an agenda) and then there's those that don't do anything. Which is more of an towntell. (Even if i hate the playstyle)

Bakslash has been E-1 for a while now. Can someone sell me on why they're scum. Cus i'm not seeing it.

[ItalianoVD]

Norfolk Boy was confirmed town and he wanted Rockhopper yesterday. I should have just stayed there but the day took fucking forever and Bakslash wasn’t even playing. Nobody really was. I should have recognized the signs but it was really just scum stalling out the wagon.
I’m banking the game on Rock/Mini.
Mini just is so quiet and uninteractive which i’m thinking is newb!scum trait. Rock just feels scummy with their constant pushing and opportunistic voting.
VOTE: Rockhopper

NO DON'T

norwegian boy you really have to unvote if you are town

im shaking rn wtf
if norwegian is town its gg because scum can hammer me

VOTE: norwegianboyee

Norfolk Boy was confirmed town and he wanted Rockhopper yesterday. I should have just stayed there but the day took fucking forever and Bakslash wasn’t even playing. Nobody really was. I should have recognized the signs but it was really just scum stalling out the wagon.
I’m banking the game on Rock/Mini.
Mini just is so quiet and uninteractive which i’m thinking is newb!scum trait. Rock just feels scummy with their constant pushing and opportunistic voting.
VOTE: Rockhopper

norfolk was wrong about the scumslip, tell me why it couldn't have come from a VT perspective

This doesn’t feel like scum reactions. If it’s theatre then you deserve an oscar Rock, although when I asked my RQS questions early on Day 1 you did say that it would be “ez pz I think” when I asked if you’d be able to lie.

[ItalianoVD]

Norfolk Boy was confirmed town and he wanted Rockhopper yesterday. I should have just stayed there but the day took fucking forever and Bakslash wasn’t even playing. Nobody really was. I should have recognized the signs but it was really just scum stalling out the wagon.
I’m banking the game on Rock/Mini.
Mini just is so quiet and uninteractive which i’m thinking is newb!scum trait. Rock just feels scummy with their constant pushing and opportunistic voting.
VOTE: Rockhopper

NO DON'T

Yeah this is town reaction to scum voting them^ /s
Lmao.

Why couldn’t it be?

norwegian boy you really have to unvote if you are town

Seriously though. This isn’t how town should react to someone they claim to have scumread for ages voting them.

This is true. If you thought Norwegian is scum I’d expect you to fight, not ATE.

[ItalianoVD]

I have an idea of where I’m going, but I wanna hear from Mini. WIFOM is always on my mind.

Also Norwegian, you do know if Rockhopper is NOT scum, the game is over?

What is your scum percentage?

[ItalianoVD]

Okay last post. I’m gonna be out for the day, but I wanted to get all my thoughts out. Here’s something else.

im shaking rn wtf
if norwegian is town its gg because scum can hammer me

VOTE: norwegianboyee

4 of the 5 players have posted and yet you’re not hammered. The lack of quick votes from myself and Dunn should tell you something. If Norwegian and Mini are scum, Mini voting for you is only 2 votes meaning you would be hammered by either myself or Dunn.

If Norwegian is town as you say then that would mean that myself, Dunn, and/or Mini are the two scum and we would hammer you. You see this doesn’t make sense. My thought is still that it’s two of either Mini, Rock, and Norwegian. I’ll be back later. Hopefully there’ll be a later to come back to. I’m gonna be gone all day, so don’t quick or lolhammer.

[ItalianoVD]

My scum percentage? Last time i checked it was 40% ish winrate.
That's counting a lot of open townsided setups i rolled scum in.

My bad, I meant your percentage that Rock is scum.

[ItalianoVD]

My scum percentage? Last time i checked it was 40% ish winrate.
That's counting a lot of open townsided setups i rolled scum in.

My bad, I meant your percentage that Rock is scum.

What does that mean? You want an exact number?

Yes what is the number you feel Rock is scum? 40%? 50%? 75%? More?

[ItalianoVD]

Votecount 3.1

Rockhopper (1) - NorwegianboyEE
NorweigianbotEE (1) - Rockhopper

Not Voting (3) -

Dunnstral, MiniMegabyte, ItalianoVD

With 5 players alive it takes 3 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is (expired on 2020-11-25 01:18:31)

This looks familiar.

[ItalianoVD]

Dunn if you still think it’s Rockhopper we can claim intent and one of us can hammer.

Mini needs to be prodded.

I was asking Norwegian how strong you scumread Rock for a reason.

[ItalianoVD]

How has this game stalled so incredibly bad? Let’s get it moving

VOTE: Norwegian

That’s L-1

[ItalianoVD]

Italiano you seemed to give the impression you were voting Rock so why did you vote me with no explanation? :/

Rock’s response to pressure felt more townie than yours.

[ItalianoVD]

Wow, the game is over? That was ironically quick.

[ItalianoVD]

I can release my pt as well cabd?