Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[petapan]

VOTE: hoopla

obviously the team is hoopla/penguingpower/thegoldenparadox, gg

[petapan]

Also obligatory max one scum in each of the sets of 4's and 5's, imo

no that is hooplas trick

[petapan]

Also obligatory max one scum in each of the sets of 4's and 5's, imo

no that is hooplas trick

you mean she normally makes that observation or that scum!her would deliberately double up?

yes she had all her team pick 4. very clever but unfortunately i have seen through it

[petapan]

he is simply too hyper to be scum

[petapan]

*they, fuck, sorry, bad reflex

[petapan]

dont harsh my buzz

[petapan]

With this thought process in mind, how many scum do you think there is between myself (14) Infinity (23) and Petapan (100000)?

i want to say peta's bid of a million is another brazen, highly suspicious scum move cooked up in the PT...

...but she's already pointed the finger at me, and we all know it's improper etiquette to accuse your accuser.

i did it because the idea of bidding a million was funny to me

I think peta may have slipped up there if they're scum or just completely subconsciously just TR'd me and slipped that. Unsure

I actually saw it as some potential early distancing from a scum buddy or two if there are any in that group. Might be smart to keep track of how these players flip as the game progresses

yes i am distancing myself from the mafia team

[petapan]

VOTE: Uncrowned

I unironically like this vote.

what'd you like about it, anyway

[petapan]

VOTE: Uncrowned

I unironically like this vote.

what'd you like about it, anyway

Being second to vote someone during RVS instead of voting someone new is something I generally did in my town games when I used to play. I feel like in the past it has helped generate discussion than a vote on someone else would

naked wagon vote from a sufficiently high level player is null, response seems a bit forced imo

VOTE: Uncrowned

[petapan]

Id actually like to go more in depth on this. Do you think scum goes out of their way to comment on something relatively obscure like Dripping's naked vote there? If so, why?

naked vote on you, you want to seem unbothered by it, so you go out to compliment it even though it's pretty much null. nervous energy to it you putting out cockamamie theories like me distancing from a teammate by making jokes about the 4s

[petapan]

Id actually like to go more in depth on this. Do you think scum goes out of their way to comment on something relatively obscure like Dripping's naked vote there? If so, why?

naked vote on you, you want to seem unbothered by it, so you go out to compliment it even though it's pretty much null. nervous energy to it you putting out cockamamie theories like me distancing from a teammate by making jokes about the 4s

That's assuming I actually care about being voted this early into D1.

A similar assumption would be me saying you're worried about the theory I made, hence why you're coming at me now with this, since you didn't bring it up until after I came up with the theory.

lmao dude

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Infinity 324

[petapan]

his vote was bad

[petapan]

We're the 3 with multiple votes on us and your vote in play is more useful than no vote i believe

why should his vote necessarily be on one of you three, though

[petapan]

s_s do you have reads?

busywork question

[petapan]

busywork question

how is that a busywork question

tries to create the appearance of solving but felt pointless and arbitrary

[petapan]

also lmao at people asking something_smart to "vote" or if he "has reads". he exists on a different plane from us mere mortals

[petapan]

I also feel like peta is being a bit more antagonistic than scum usually are this early.

From my limited experience of peta I doubt that level of antagonism would be out of scum-peta's range.

i will tell you this is correct before hoopla does (i am town this game tho)

[petapan]

tries to create the appearance of solving but felt pointless and arbitrary

It's not pointless? The point is to learn if I have any reads.

And it's not arbitrary, because he noted that I'd participated but hadn't shared any reads yet.

eh it's a level 1 scumbo move to go "hey x do you have any reads"

[petapan]

i have never read anyone for a good reason and i never will

[petapan]

also lmao at people asking something_smart to "vote" or if he "has reads". he exists on a different plane from us mere mortals

light buddying?

nah

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Infinity 324

Why unvote here dude, I thought you were locked in on scum!uncrowned?

no? what gave you the impression i was "locked in"? i was poking at him for my amusement then infinity made a bad vote so i went there

[petapan]

Skitter is probably town from all this, but all that talk about setup stuff is a bit eh

Skitter is probably town from all this

What are you referring to?

All their long-ass posts, I just feel scum wouldn't put all that effort in.

Obligatory: dont townread me for that, i'm fully capable of writing/efforting such posts as scum, etc

Yeah alright, but this is townie.

handing out an easy townread for bad reasons is scummy

[petapan]

I'm not seeing many long posts from skitter though?

I wasn't really meaning super long ones. Just the paragraph ones, where it's more than a sentence.

are you fucking kidding me

VOTE: jacksonvirgo

[petapan]

i refuse to believe that is an authentic thought process from a town player

[petapan]

that is

true

but he handed that read out like candy and skitter's posts aren't even that long even if you were on a phone

[petapan]

*they

fuck me, i swear i will try to stop doing this

[petapan]

I dont think jv's comment is as bad as its being made out to be

what bothered me is the emphasis of form over content

Also voting out Lilith who is top of the draft is not a good move, why are people starting there?

VOTE: skitter30

Because I don't like her vote and she can play like this as scum

why her, out of all the lilith voters?

[petapan]

her reactions to being wagoned upon actually showing up will be quite insightful. (She herself has acknowledged on more than one occasion that i'm quite good at reading her, i can pull quotes if necessary)

do you expect it to work if you say it tho

[petapan]

is defending yourself against dunnstral so important that you need to blow up your attempt to test lilith before she responds

[petapan]

is defending yourself against dunnstral so important that you need to blow up your attempt to test lilith before she responds

I haven't played too many games outside of newbie queue, but do you think most experienced players getting early wagoned don't already know it's kind of a reaction test?

i question the value in publicly announcing you expect someone's reaction to being voted to be insightful before that person actually reacts

[petapan]

do u actually think it was an early bus wagon lol

[petapan]

do u actually think it was an early bus wagon lol

please respond

[petapan]

oh ok

silly but prob town unless [information withheld for strategic purposes]

[petapan]

ok having 3 players lurk when we have 7 day deadlines is like :/

I will elim Pine on principal.

[petapan]

tgp still probably town imo

don't agree with infinty 433 (the posts were within a minute of each other), but that is an argument that probably comes from town

[petapan]

Indirectly scumreading Hoopla but nowhere in this ISO is it made clear why Hoopla would be a scumread.

it's in his first post? "opportunistic wagon hopping". strong noob vibes.

[petapan]

Indirectly scumreading Hoopla but nowhere in this ISO is it made clear why Hoopla would be a scumread.

it's in his first post? "opportunistic wagon hopping". strong noob vibes.

Eh, fair enough. I'm used to much more though it is extremely early still.
I'm certain TGP has been in enough games to not be considered in that category. I'm just not sure I have a strong meta handle yet.

it's whatever category you want to put "person who gets concerned by early game wagon hopping"

[petapan]

It's even worse in that there's next to no way i'm getting you voted out today, probably

don't let your dreams be memes

VOTE: lilith

[petapan]

you're not gonna convince me to scumread hoopla for naked voting

[petapan]

petapan - i have a vague uneasiness with peta's willingness to go to bat for my parade of naked voting. a part of me feels like it's early buddying, but it could also be we both share a similar philosophy about voting/wagoning. leaning scum so far. she also tricked me into attacking a fellow member of the 4 bracket!

huge fan btw

[petapan]

davesaz - under-the-radar somewhat. not a crime per se in a game this fast, but given it's (theoretically) easier to stream-of-conscious spam through the pages as town, under-the-radar seems a viable factor to consider in a D1 execution. hasn't done anything outright scummy, but from a POE perspective he is suss given

i have mostly town-leanings.

this doesn't seem to really line up with what you've said about people?

[petapan]

Peta did you really choose 100000000000000000000000000 for the lulz or did you want a unique number thinking more people would have grouped numbers?

Honest or I yeet you to oblivion with my N3 vigilante shot (jkjk unless)

both

you seem to be commenting on a lot of trivial things

[petapan]

I lowkey have a small inkling that mafia chose 2,3 and 4 respectively. That would make Lilith, Dunnstral and one of the 4's mafia which I'll have to do some looking into but ngl that would make sense to me as I would probably try that.

Maybe 3,4,5 instead but you get my gist. Although mafia choosing informed while doing that is probably counterintuitive so maybe not?

admittedly, however, there are game theory reasons to think at least one of the low number picks is scum (and yes, i am aware that scum have subverted this in past games by all picking high numbers). there are better reasons than numbers to think lilith is scum, though

i do somewhat like the "i would probably try that"

[petapan]

Peta did you really choose 100000000000000000000000000 for the lulz or did you want a unique number thinking more people would have grouped numbers?

Honest or I yeet you to oblivion with my N3 vigilante shot (jkjk unless)

both

you seem to be commenting on a lot of trivial things

You seem to be shading me in trivial ways. I just didn't believe you when you said

i did it because the idea of bidding a million was funny to me

Should I read more into you blatantly lying or what?

i don't think it's a trivial accusation to say a lot of the focus in your catchup was on posts that i found to be fairly uninteresting and seemed to avoid a lot of the more substantial discussions in the thread

where's the lie tho

[petapan]

You said that the idea of bidding was funny to you, which is lying by omission considering what you were asked. And considering your number I find it quite suspicious that you decided to withhold that information.

nah

[petapan]

pedit: That's a shit defence peta, try harder

nah

[petapan]

agree that fakeclaims don't matter that much in this setup

[petapan]

nah

[petapan]

lmfao

[petapan]

DGB is probably scum

[petapan]

482 felt like fake paranoia

[petapan]

Cool. What did I miss?

you're confirmed scum and we're hunting your partners

[petapan]

yes - mostly her posting on ss and skitter

482 felt like fake paranoia

Thanks -- yeah I see those and have somewhat mixed feelings on it. It seems rather far fetched as a theory, but I'm not sure it's AI to be concerned about a possible hack job. In particular what motivation would scum have to bring up that type of concern early on vs. trying to ride it out? On the other hand there are some people who try to play the martyr as scum in that situation. Town in the #1 position have to be constantly on the lookout for scum trying a cheap miselim. I don't know lilith well enough to use meta. So yeah, big ball of undecided here.

i don't have a frame of reference there but it felt like an inauthentic thought process to assume someone pressure voting you early day 1 is mafia who is protecting their partner, because when does that happen, really? The much more obvious strategy is staying out of someone's way and then NKing them. so in that sense it feels contrived, like it's attempting to emulate a town mindset in response to pressure but gets it wrong

[petapan]

@Hoopla:

davesaz - under-the-radar somewhat. not a crime per se in a game this fast, but given it's (theoretically) easier to stream-of-conscious spam through the pages as town, under-the-radar seems a viable factor to consider in a D1 execution. hasn't done anything outright scummy, but from a POE perspective he is suss given

i have mostly town-leanings.

this doesn't seem to really line up with what you've said about people?

[petapan]

@Hoopla:

davesaz - under-the-radar somewhat. not a crime per se in a game this fast, but given it's (theoretically) easier to stream-of-conscious spam through the pages as town, under-the-radar seems a viable factor to consider in a D1 execution. hasn't done anything outright scummy, but from a POE perspective he is suss given

i have mostly town-leanings.

this doesn't seem to really line up with what you've said about people?

you and to a lesser extent dunnstral were my only scum leanings in that post?

but but you put him as suspicious from a POE perspective, but your townreads did not appear numerous or strong

[petapan]

there should only be one "but", i did not mean to imitate stammering with my post

[petapan]

I could see why she thought certain posts were towny and scummy

for a lot of those posts i didn't understand what was towny/scumy about them. didn't have a problem with most of the names placed in the townreads but the attempted piggybacking off tgp is a little concerning

[petapan]

is it even effort tho

[petapan]

I don't think we want to lim lilith today cause she's a PR, time for a hoopla wagon?

but if she's a scum pr that would be a good thing wouldn't it

[petapan]

I don't think we want to lim lilith today cause she's a PR, time for a hoopla wagon?

It's about time someone had the guts to say this.

but if she's a scum pr that would be a good thing wouldn't it

In the game I just got done modding, scum had 2 PRs and got zero utility out of either one.

The top 4 or so slots are self-resolving. If they get NK'd then that's painful but it's life. If they don't get NK'd and there isn't a save to explain it then we eliminate them later.

they got zero utility out of the 1-shot vig (in spot #4) because town didn't care about draft order and eliminated them day 1. not gonna weight my reads by draft position.

[petapan]

Peta's posts surrounding me being sus of them is vastly different than the surrounding ones and then they bounce back when nobody else reciprocates my read.

nah

[petapan]

not sure if i should believe the junior detective act here

[petapan]

why's 791 a scumpost

[petapan]

fine w/ getting a claim given we're somewhere close to halfway thru the day but also have something else i'm writing up

[petapan]

let's really drill down here on this catchup post, since most seem to have basically glossed over it:

skitter30
Goes on and on about mechanics
viewtopic.php?p=12269004#p12269004 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12269130#p12269130 - townish
viewtopic.php?p=12269382#p12269382 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12269784#p12269784 - townie
viewtopic.php?p=12272139#p12272139 - solid town
viewtopic.php?p=12272187#p12272187 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12273335#p12273335 - so town
viewtopic.php?p=12273657#p12273657 - so so town

325 - "I dont think jv's comment is as bad as its being made out to be". seems not particularly alignment indicative either way. 331 - about lilith, "forgot she was at the top of the draft", "Doesnt mean i cant wagon her". again, not seeing how this is AI. 338, wagoning lilith for lack of townie things is fine (i agreed but wanted to wait for her to come back and see what she said). didn't care for her talking about how she anticipated lilith's reactions would be insightful, but probably more a stylistic nitpick than anything. 364 is just "It doesnt feel scummy to me" and i fail to see how that's a towntell. that's a very easy thing to say as either alignment. 416 431 - these brief lines keep getting called town when taken by themselves they don't really mean anything. 627 is, okay, i can see maybe talking about how the wagon has little chance of succeeding as town. but then, 655 again doesn't strike me as AI. "ignore numbers and focus on whoever we think is scum" is a basic and easy statement to make. i don't suspect skitter but i wouldn't argue she's town based on these posts

TheGoldenParadox
viewtopic.php?p=12270553#p12270553 - Loving this entry post
viewtopic.php?p=12270630#p12270630 - I was just thinking that myself
viewtopic.php?p=12272420#p12272420 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12272463#p12272463 - Exactly
viewtopic.php?p=12273476#p12273476 - town

really, loving the entry post 370 about the lilith wagon feeling "manufactured" when DGB comes away town-readign most of the people voting there and scum-reading lilith? that tgp post is

weird

, looking back on it, because they criticize the wagon but then say they like skitter and uncrowned, who...are both on the lilith wagon. "I was just thinking that myself" to 372 is very odd especially considering tgp shortly after admitted his read of lilith there wasn't serious. 494 doesn't strike me as an especially town post. one sentence, one player is scummier than the other, other sentence i reevaluated a read and downgraded it. 503 is scumreading hoopla for naked voting, which i don't really vibe with, naked voting in and of itself isn't alignment telling to me. 637 is flawed logic but maybe possibly town going down a rabbit hole.

Infinity 324
viewtopic.php?p=12266547#p12266547 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12267672#p12267672 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12268836#p12268836 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12272065#p12272065 - bold vote
viewtopic.php?p=12272178#p12272178 - weird
viewtopic.php?p=12272860#p12272860 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12273809#p12273809 - town

117 - "Someone explain to me this uncrowned wagon he's my only townread" is town because ??? 224 - the last person to townread me for being abrasive was scum. i don't think this makes infinity scum i just don't think saying that is a towntell. 319 - "I think s_s is town" is town how??? no explanation, dgb doesn't have him as a townread, i don't get it. 401 hoopla vote is bold because...? 545 calling out jackson for focusing on NAI stuff is good, yes, but dgb doesn't mention those posts, doesn't have jackson as a scumread, so not sure why it's supposed to be town to her. 660 is town because he wants to eliminate hoopla i guess?

Uncrowned
viewtopic.php?p=12264984#p12264984 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12265135#p12265135 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12272687#p12272687 - scummish
viewtopic.php?p=12272883#p12272883 - good townie observation

33 is an okay post, 62 i didn't like but it's w/e at this point. 539 is scummish because, what? he's talking to s_s about being paranoid of him? 552 sure, i like that observation. i am more or less around to uncrowned as town just by ongoing strength of contribution even though players with formal posting styles always put me on edge, but most of these aren't posts i would consider AI.

Dunnstral
viewtopic.php?p=12269102#p12269102 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12269107#p12269107 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12273267#p12273267 - town

maybe the most puzzling one yet. not sure why him saying the informed choice for mafia is better (329, 613) is a towntell. 330 is slightly town on tone.

JacksonVirgo
viewtopic.php?p=12265112#p12265112 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12265116#p12265116 - town

51 54 these strike me as really empty early game posts, why do they read town? they don't read scum to me, they're just kind of...there.

Something_Smart
Goes on and on about mechanics
viewtopic.php?p=12268721#p12268721 - VERY town
viewtopic.php?p=12269713#p12269713 - scummish
viewtopic.php?p=12272415#p12272415 - town

312 is fine but not, like, amazingly town. 358 is NAI. 493 is, yeah, pretty town sounding, moreso than some of the posts that have landed people in the upper part of the list.

PenguinPower
Is VI - would policy yeet
viewtopic.php?p=12267825#p12267825 - townish
viewtopic.php?p=12273660#p12273660 - scum

doesn't really strike me as a VI as opposed to deliberately inscrutable to a degree. what has he actually said that's village idiot-ish? suggestion he's dangerous enough to be a policy elim is a bit skeevy. town because he dislikes hoopla's vote, scum because he responded angrily to tgp i guess?

petapan
viewtopic.php?p=12265262#p12265262 - scum
viewtopic.php?p=12268496#p12268496 - scum
viewtopic.php?p=12272341#p12272341 - town
viewtopic.php?p=12274293#p12274293 - town LOL

having issues with the first two posts is w/e, but don't see why either of the last two (467 679), especially the second, merits reading as town

davesaz
viewtopic.php?p=12268706#p12268706 - revisit later
viewtopic.php?p=12272338#p12272338 - interesting, maybe scum?
Talking a lot of blah blah about numbers
viewtopic.php?p=12274578#p12274578 - useless
A lot of tergiversation

466 - don't agree with the attack on tgp, don't see why it makes him scum.

Hoopla
viewtopic.php?p=12264936#p12264936 - scum
viewtopic.php?p=12264987#p12264987 - scum
viewtopic.php?p=12265108#p12265108 - scum
viewtopic.php?p=12266543#p12266543 - :goodposting:
Penguin Power vote is very good
viewtopic.php?p=12268628#p12268628 - scum
viewtopic.php?p=12268698#p12268698 - scum
viewtopic.php?p=12273012#p12273012 - :goodreads: except for lilith

34 basically null for hoopla, acted similarly in the most recent pyp. could see someone taking issue with it i guess. 302, 309 - otherwise scum for following my vote onto jackson? sum total here doesn't look like a solid scumread. thought hoopla's posting was fine except the reasoning for some things on her readlist (576) seems pretty daft. also don't understand how you can call someone's readlist goodreads minus one person, and have them as scum. wouldn't net total of agreement outweigh the disagreement on a single read? nevermind that lilith is actually toward the bottom part of her list, dunnstral a low read as well, main point of agreement seems to be on fairly popular townreads?

lilith2013
Time-wasty posts.
viewtopic.php?p=12272258#p12272258 - useless line of questioning
viewtopic.php?p=12272348#p12272348 - RL excuses
viewtopic.php?p=12272354#p12272354 - bad read
viewtopic.php?p=12272478#p12272478 - frivolous

points against lilith are

fine

i'd say but are mostly hitching to what's already a big wagon at this point. also feels weirdly uncharitable to characterize 468 as real life excuses when there are none (and she herself had an RL excuse earlier...)


like, a lot of the names and their placement on the list are

fine

but the posts that are supposedly evidence toward these things strike me as not really telling, and are often short fairly non-AI posts (because those were the easiset to read?). this list feels like it was assembled by a random number generator, meant to impress with its size but not really having believable underlying reasoning. don't like this catchup post at all, don't see town making it, if people still have scruples about voting lilith this would be my second choice for a vote

[petapan]

Actually town doesn’t have a tracker right?

wait, what

[petapan]

like, a lot of the names and their placement on the list are

fine

but the posts that are supposedly evidence toward these things strike me as not really telling, and are often short fairly non-AI posts (because those were the easiset to read?). this list feels like it was assembled by a random number generator, meant to impress with its size but not really having believable underlying reasoning. don't like this catchup post at all, don't see town making it, if people still have scruples about voting lilith this would be my second choice for a vote

i don't really agree with this (especially if it's characteristic for dgb), and i think the real AI of the posts linked is closer to dgb's
interpretation than yours but this entire post looks very town motivated to me

town motivated

how

[petapan]

you analyze her post and make points in a way that resonates with me, even if i disagree with many of those points. the "random number generator" line is a bold-seeming one that looks like town to me.

oh i thought you were talking about her post and disagreeing with me

[petapan]

Why would that be cause for a scumread?

Idk
I feel like i should have more pushback and more people suspicous of my motivations

ummmmm maybe because you’re doing scum’s work for them??? we all know I’m a PR unless I was a complete doofus and didn’t submit a pick. if you’re town, scum are fucking salivating over the thought that they didn’t have to do

anything

and I got handed to them on a platter.

Since the jig’s kind of up at this point - I knew I’d be an obvious NK target for being first draft pick, I was hoping to not be incredibly obvtown to the point that it got me killed N1 so I could maybe get something useful done before I died. Hence being a lurksack. Unfortunately I underestimated how awful I play when under pressure and your determination to wagon me.

anyway, there are a bunch of people on the wagon for shitty reasons/“for pressure”/“because someone else wanted it” - I think DGB and infinity are scummy as hell, their votes are opportunistic, I agree with peta that DGB’s catchup post was a whole lot of head-scratching. I’m not sure I’m up for my typical play atm given that I... think I have covid, but I’m gonna try to be coherent before I fall asleep again.

really sorry to hear that. hope things work out for you


i don't know if the laying low to not get nked thing makes

sense

because, well, everyone knows the draft order anyway. gut says the wagon response isn't scummy though

[petapan]

VOTE: drippinggoofball

[petapan]

thanks

[petapan]

I should clarify though that I haven't read those same games, but more the concept that Lilith isn't either town or scum here

There seems to be a lot of "this could reasonably come from a town perspective" which is something we were frowning upon when Infinity was doing it earlier. The same should apply here.

We shouldn't have to perform yoga stretches to determine if something could come from a town perspective. I understand things can be NAI but this feels quite fence-sitty

he’s actually said very similar things about me in other games. He has like extra-paranoia about me? I think it’s a bit more town-indicative than not, but also I’ve never been town in a game with scum!SS so I don’t actually know how he’d approach me as scum.

weren't you talking about how well you can read him

[petapan]

sorry guess i should have posted more lolcats

[petapan]

she'd be having more fun if she had a town role pm

[petapan]

it is a worthwhile consideration that there is almost certainly at least one scum in the single numbers and i don't really have a good idea of who it is

[petapan]

"wasn't good enough" is fairly oversimplifying my objection. instead of the preemptive fatalism and complaining you could address the people voting you?

[petapan]

Also there’s one player here who’s like, intensely scummy and hasn’t been pressured at all lmao

dear jesus, is it me

Oh, and anyone who knows pine should know this is an obvtown slot

what i know about pine is i got him eliminated once long ago when i was scum and he was obvtown. also had a kinda trash scumgame but that was also forever ago so i assume no longer true

[petapan]

dear jesus, is it me

*shakes head gently*

No

okay is it dunnstral

[petapan]

dear jesus, is it me

*shakes head gently*

No

okay is it dunnstral

It’s not him either

infinity 324?

[petapan]

there was actually one very funny thing i noticed in his iso just now but it's not really a hard scumtell

[petapan]

VOTE: DGB ok

I think hoopla is scum, it really isn’t a sheep I’ve been pushing that one for a while? Davesaz is also pretty scummy. Honestly I’m proud of how many scumreads I have, I usually have none on d1

why the swap?

[petapan]

also dave probtown

[petapan]

are obvious joke claims scum indicative

[petapan]

i'm aware. are you trying to say because he claimed cop on page 1 in another game as scum he could be scum here because that seems not particularly solid reasoning

[petapan]

i dont know who i scumread

[petapan]

i dont know who i scumread

infinity

i'm not feeling it but might sheep anyway absent strong feelings

[petapan]

I havent played with like half the pl and most of the older players dont know me

you have a slaxx quote in your sig so you can't be bad people

[petapan]

He came back for a few months like a year ago
Cool dude, twas a fun game!

haven't talked with him forever but we were cool back in the day

[petapan]

I can hit you in the face with it if necessary. Better than 90% of the time people town read me they are scum.

shit i'm caught

[petapan]

dunnstral might be scum tbh

[petapan]

i understand he just, like, lurks all the time but there's no heat there and everyone else in the single number i either townlean to some degree or is lilith

[petapan]

thought dave's reaction to the lolclaim was town

[petapan]

i feel like everyone should post their top 2-3 scumreads so we can get a good idea on who is a viable candidate. we need to start compromising.

i'll hang onto this davesaz vote for another ~6-12 hours. if this doesn't take off, i'd probably favour infinity over DGB, mostly because i feel DGB doesn't melt away into an ambivalent puddle of lament as scum.

VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dunnstral

i don't really scumread infinity but would compromise there just because i've learned when someone capable has a strong scumread it's better for me to shut up and follow

I have a really nice scumtell that i'm trying to see if i can trip out of you/dgb/peta/infinity but so far no results

even if i were scum you wouldn't get it out of me

[petapan]

Oh there we go again with the "everything's fake" and not believing your lying eyes. You're gaslighting yourself.

Anyhoo it looks like I'm hammered.

I was town and choose PGO because I expected to be NK'd.

Adios amigos

VOTE: dgb

[petapan]

fake fake fake fake fake fake fake fake fake fake

[petapan]

that is the most transparently phony attempt to towntell by acting like you're hammered

[petapan]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[petapan]

it was but it's okay because the fake hammer reaction was a scumclaim

[petapan]

insufferable

[petapan]

like really throwing this sort of fit is just unacceptable

[petapan]

i don't think the other time went well either

[petapan]

but w/e. sorry for being wrong i guess

[petapan]

VOTE: peta

Obligatory as they're still scum

blow me scumbag

[petapan]

VOTE: skitter30

[petapan]

VOTE: skitter30

oh *do* go on

don't care for the way you've started the day

sorry, i meant limming/executing. there is no scum 1-shot vigilante, so we should avoid limming at the top of the draft because that would be hitting PRs which are a lot more important for town than scum.

it's extremely likely there are at least 2 scum in the top half of the draft

jv is probably town too. i don't remember if i said that already

Idk I feel like they may be hiding behind this silly tunnel to avoid scumhunting

riding a shitpush because i called them on excessive fillerposting ain't town

[petapan]

it's extremely likely there are at least 2 scum in the top half of the draft

If you have an actual objective reason to think this, it's probably too early to discuss in depth.
If you are basing this thought on the draft then you're probably buying in to a gambler's fallacy.

scum doubling up still less likely than picking different numbers. i'm disagreeing with their tinfoil about hoopla

[petapan]

don't especially scumread anyone down there besides jv though

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: jacksonvirgo

whole pileon onto menalque today is terrible

[petapan]

want some explanation from infinity as to his vote there

[petapan]

don't like how your scumreads are all people likely to be prs sorry that's gross

this is so stupid

[petapan]

ok

[petapan]

I’m lowkey a tiny bit paranoid that peta is white knighting me for the cred, and normally I’d be more worried about him given that DGB was hard scumreading him but I know she was wrong on me and so that makes me doubt her judgement this game more than I might if she’d been engaged and had correctly read me

idk i thought your entrance to the game was good and don't get how you're somehow the one being scapegoated here for day 1

[petapan]

well all right then

[petapan]

jailkeep isn't necessarily a lock guilty but i guess i'm fine with voting there knowing this

[petapan]

Also has anyone actually checked peta's tone where I linked? I feel like it's so obvious but everyone's ignoring it

no one care

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: jacksonvirgo

whole pileon onto menalque today is terrible

OMGUS, finally got to a position where you can seamlessly vote me eh?

calling this an omgus is really weird when your whole thing obviously started because i was expressing skepticism toward your catchup posts even if my vote wasn't there

[petapan]

That makes you >rand scum my friend.

Yea but my role PM makes me infinitely >rand town so

*yawn*

^this is town after seeing a >rand scum try and make a stupid ass defense

Fixed it for you

these type of posts don't come from town

[petapan]

May be biased because I just finished a game where basically-confirmed-scum kept trying to pretend to gamesolve, but I don't agree with hoopla here. Some people are just tenacious.

that is basically what i did when i replaced into a slot in a newbie game with a tracker guilty on it, i think not throwing in the towel is just the expected play from a certain baseline level of competence but i don't find what he's saying scummy

[petapan]

not really. don't know why they're getting so scumread as they seemed fairly earnest to me. i might be soft for their particular archetype of derpiness, but.

[petapan]

his also looks real bad, especially considering TGP's play has consisted of "Let's lynch Hoopla" who, as I said, hasn't been the focus of the game in terms of being pressured or wagon since I want to say roughly page 20-30.

The lack of willingness to engage with the wagons, only to jump on at the most opportunistic moment with no comments on either slot (DGB and now Mena) can't be ignored.

This doesn't seem like townplay to me. Even when TGP has been "against" the wagon, they've barely spoken about it and have only either voted someone else or voted on the wagon. There's no other interaction here. No information seeking or real attempts at reads outside of Hoopla

Also forgot to mention but assuming I'm right on this TGP thing, Daves is most likely town.

their whole handwringing spiel about not wanting to vote out a likely PR is not good play but seems like a sincerely held belief? although i guess it dovetails with them pushing hoopla/pp conspiracy theories a little

too

neatly but that might be wishful thinking on their part? but i guess it's concerning that they aren't really trying to

read

those players. reversal on dgb ain't great the more i look at it i suppose

[petapan]

I can't find it anywhere. I'll link some bois

1454 - The only wall I can find on them, which is weird since I SWEAR I made one.

64 - Their initial response to the quesitom.
593 - Is where I initially called them out.
601 - Their cheap ass response to that and then discrediting me for it.
615 - Compare the tone around this post in their iso to the rest of the game.

This is just from the top of my head as I'm still super tired from hospital

could you respond to this please peta, specifically why didn't you engage in your 615 at all?

because the argument being made was fucking stupid

[petapan]

I also disagree with this. It’s almost easier to push someone no one else is paying attention to because you don’t actually have to follow through and interact with a wagon in a nuanced way, no? ie how I tried to push pp in jk9++

Idk in my experience i feel like i havent seen scum play it like that super often

that's kind of surprising? because i've seen it plenty even if most of my experience is from Long Ago, i have still seen in 2020 scum ride an obnoxious tunnel on shitlogic and get townread for it because people thought "wow they must really believe this" and ignored how they were basically totally unreceptive to reasoning from anywhere. somewhat surprising that you'd have never seen that sort of play because i don't assume the game has changed

that

much since i've been gone. mostly it's hard for me to believe a town player would be hung up on something so fucking trivial even if they're having a hard time getting into the game

[petapan]

(3) he's reluctant to vote TGP despite not thinking I'm scum, while making a point of how TGP coooouuuuuld be scum, and I currently think TGP has high equity and this is a partner-y type of position to take

i had been saying i thought they were town since day 1 (379, 438) and while some of the points against them are valid they have the feel of being an lhf-ish player so i'm wary. (my hangup i was withholding is that if lilith is scum then tgp's chances of being scum shoot through the roof). granted that is the sort of angle i might take on a partner, but, i'm town this game, so.

[petapan]

but i do think that i can look at someone's play and look at their position in the draft and what they have said to arrive at a reasonable conclusion

but you mostly seem to be not actually trying to sort people in the top part of the draft

[petapan]

S_S, what is your read on me at this point anyway?

yeah it doesn't seem a likely play at all

[petapan]

sitting on an alt for 2 years is impressive dedication

[petapan]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I also just played with TGP and this is what I mean when I say they feel totally different here

i'm going over this and they read decently similarly? what are you seeing this game that's so different?

[petapan]

not sure how i get classed as "kinda not doing things" compared to some of those people

[petapan]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I also just played with TGP and this is what I mean when I say they feel totally different here

i'm going over this and they read decently similarly? what are you seeing this game that's so different?

I think they were significantly more pro-active, less tunnel-y and more focused on sorting the PL in general, had a much more light-hearted tone, and were very interested in working with me

I also really hated their vote on me and the way they made it

i guess you have a point in that they were a lot more willing to actually interface with people and discuss things with them, yeah

[petapan]

the problem is like
you're so good of a scumplayer i don't trust my own reads over the strong mechanical evidence that you're scum

have you actually seen menalque as scum?

(also a jk isn't really particularly strong mechanical evidence)

[petapan]

VOTE: tgp

[petapan]

their posting yesterday was bad
their posting today isn't great

why is it bad though

[petapan]

what

[petapan]

how are his posts "genuinely scummy" when you can't even explain it, though

like how is it that it stands out so strongly to you, but you are unable to put it together in the form of words for anyone else

give me something to work with here

[petapan]

stop letting skitter and mena run the show and elim him already, it's obvious that we need to do so

uh huh

is it weird that even though i don't like that post it may be a town one

[petapan]

how are his posts "genuinely scummy" when you can't even explain it, though

like how is it that it stands out so strongly to you, but you are unable to put it together in the form of words for anyone else

give me something to work with here

this is

@TGP

, btw, so they don't miss it

[petapan]

this complaint might be me showing my age, but i find menalque's style of posting obscene. we're playing on a forum, so treating the game as a chatroom automatically brings out that style of posting in everyone else who wants to participate in the game thread.

if this continues, we're going to be stuck in a perpetual state where there's always a segment of the playerlist in catchup mode, and not able to participate in the current conversation. at the moment it's me, but i don't want to have to play at this pace to be heard.

menalque, is it too much to ask to filter your thoughts and not dominate the conversation like this?

like yeah, you've been under pressure - and you've improved my ability to get a read on you (feels like an explosion of town energy that is hard to fake), but it's come at the expense of drowning out everyone else, to the point where i feel like many of my other reads have capsized in a sea of pointless babble.

the same goes for skitter too. can we please try for a better balance of voices?

literally all i've taken away from today is menalque-probtown on play (but going to think about mechanics in my next post), and that there probably isn't a menalque/skitter scumpairing.

do you have any scumreads

[petapan]

I think wagons point tentatively towards TGP!scum — as in, the people on him are mostly townie, he was a counter wagon to town originally, his wagon hasn’t really grown very fast compared to the wagon on town which shot up to G-1 instantly, and there’s now an effort to get a counterwagon to him going on Dunn (which, despite dunn being scummy, does maybe make dunn somewhat +town if TGP!scum)

from a speed/resistance & composition of voters perspective, i agree the TGP wagon looks healthier than most of the wagons we produced yesterday, ie; lilith/DGB... but i still feel it's a suboptimal play.

realistically, TGP does seem like the scummiest 4, but i think we can do better today. or at the very least, give the town a real counterwagon possibility in dunnstral.

you're right, and i agreed with your previous post on the subject. it bothers me that most of the suspicious players to me are in the 4s. i know i said this but i feel like i'm not doing enough to read the people in he top half of the draft. i'll try to adjust for that now because it's just not good play to not try to read there even if i have a scumread in the 4s

[petapan]

flavor leaf won the don corleone scummy and is probably the best scumplayer on this site today.

Man my ego

pff i bet they give that award to just about anyone

[petapan]

okay, so, with tgp, i'm torn, because i feel like i have a soft spot for the type of player who feels like they're spilling spaghetti everywhere with every post, that sort of player that gets eliminated a lot which always makes me hesitant. they spouts off some goofy theory about hoopla being doubled with PP, and i just give them points for "sincerity" without really trying to evaluate them. the fact that they stuck with scumreading hoopla for something so slight as moving her vote around early bothers me. but the way they went from "oh menalque sounds town but is likely scum by mechanics" to an immediate 180 just from one something_smart post saying the mechanical evidence isn't that strong. the speed of the change there to going back after infinity gave me whiplash. they also keep saying infinity's posts are very bad but can't offer an actual explanation as to why and i'm bothered by that a lot. their self-defense is starting to feel like they're just trying to copy the argument they've seen someone else use? i don't understand how you can declare yourself "uninformed", i guess. and yet still my earlier gut vibes tear at me and i'm wary of a false positive even if their defense is very wifom-y in a way i don't like. but need to think about who makes sense as a partner.

still have issues with JV as well, best bird is...on tone i lean toward town but the content is light. feeling like hoopla is town.


so looking at the top of the draft

lilith:

not really town on play but it would be very unusual for her to claim in the manner she has as scum. could still potentially be teamed with tgp, based on how they reacted to the wagon on her on day 1.

dunnstral:

heavy under the radar, not really offering much at all. last post had kind of an irritable town vibe but there wasn't enough of that on day 1. also could see him as scum with tgp (or almost anyone really)

skitter:

insisted forcefully enough that she would have taken multitasking that i believed it, have overall liked her approach and they way she's pressurred people. however, keeps making these strained defenses of jackson that are making me raise an eyebrow. probably not teamed with tgp although i guess she's not averse to bussing

dave:

was going with the flow for a lot of day 1, not necessarily scummy but not towny either, more recent posts have been townvibes though, stuff like the reaction to menalque lolclaiming is more likely town. probably not scum with tgp.

something_smart:

veeery slight town vibes of a few posts. probably should go back and re-read because i don't remember a

ton

there.

uncrowned:

one of those things where i can't explain it in a good way but very consistently scumhunting and just generally town

infinity:

seems fine to me, posts today don't look scummy, i guess it's possible menalque sees something i don't but he's not raising any flags for me. also probably not teamed with tgp even if he's defending him here because i don't think tgp tries to bus him.

it's all very confusing to me

[petapan]

TheGoldenParadox

, please try to explain what's bad about infinity's posts to you

[petapan]

insisted forcefully enough that she would have taken multitasking that i believed it

meh, I think it's well within scum-skitter's wheelhouse to pick one thing and strongly argue why she would have picked the other, especially if she did the pick specifically for WIFOM.

way she argued it felt believable, meh, but it's not a read i'd hang my hat on anyway

[petapan]

oh, tgp is actively ignoring this game, that's interesting

[petapan]

i don't think anyone should hammer unannounced but

fine

UNVOTE:

[petapan]

flavor leaf won the don corleone scummy and is probably the best scumplayer on this site today.

Man my ego

pff i bet they give that award to just about anyone

[petapan]

i feel so iffy

[petapan]

i feel so iffy

what's wrong peta?

eh i don't really agree with the points tgp is making against infinity but my heart isn't saying they're scum. voters on the wagon don't look terrible, and yet, and yet. tried looking at their game in mystery box of silver 10 and it felt similar with the sort of moonlogic reasoning but they were a little more proactive. also questioning whether some of the weirdness from them that i disliked is actually scummy or not. granted my feelings day 1 lead me down the wrong path so maybe i should trust other people but i still don't feel

great

[petapan]

They're barely incorporating any of peta's play since the tunnel started, which is very unusual for town tunnels.

i ... actually think this is fairly typical for town tunnels

Wow I almost never see that

Usually they have a reason for why everything they do is scummy somehow

i would agree with infinity here but also think it's probably a byproduct of them not really keeping up with the thread at all which is due to outside circumstances, so.

[petapan]

i think knowing the info is preferable to not

[petapan]

VOTE: dunnstral

meh

[petapan]

@hoopla/infinity/tgp/peta why is dunnstral scummy?

least town looking of all the single numbered players

JV why haven't you talked about TGP at all?

Don't really have a read on them.

I'm seriously considering just reading the game from the start I'm that out of the loop

alternately i can just thunderdome you and you and your shitpush can fuck off

[petapan]

no you're not lmfao

[petapan]

no you're not lmfao

You know what, fuck you.

if you are going to keep tunneling me with an extremely bad case to the total exclusion of everything else in the game you are scum or dead worthless town and in either case i want you dead so you get off my fucking nuts

[petapan]

lol okay thats a scumclaim

[petapan]

no you're not lmfao

You know what, fuck you.

if you are going to keep tunneling me with an extremely bad case to the total exclusion of everything else in the game you are scum or dead worthless town and in either case i want you dead so you get off my fucking nuts

You need to step back and chill out

i'm calm and normal

[petapan]

that was such an obvious scum hammer

[petapan]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[petapan]

pick not important now tbh

[petapan]

i kind of think jv getting huffy at me mighta been town

[petapan]

the dunnstral hammer was obvious scum shit. when he flips red you can write off hoopla and infinity as town. menalque also likely town with only a slight paranoid reservation on my part.

[petapan]

stop letting skitter and mena run the show and elim him already, it's obvious that we need to do so

I don't know, I feel like he's reasonably towny in his interactions with skitter (reasonably because I haven't played with scum!mena but I imagine he's a pretty competent player who knows what he's supposed to sound like as town) and I think it's less unlikely that I didn't actually block the kill than I originally thought

Don't get gaslit

TGP vote doesn't really make sense

davesaz is sidelining all of this hard

What information are we keeping from scum if they dont claim it

More importantly, why are we hammering town instead of the guy who tried to make the kill?

Dunn, what did you think of 2189? Who's scum other than mena?

I'm not reading walls of text or really considering other possibilities until Mena is elim'd

spends a bunch of time complaining we need to vote menalque because you're scum, virtue signalling against the tgp wagon, then hammers them with shit reasoning when the wagon against him is starting to build. this is not to mention it was a wagon where his supposed primary scumread was voting

[petapan]

The role choices of the people who have flipped are really making me question my setup spec. Specifically whether scum would've chosen 1-shot vig. I think it's 100% correct to do so but maybe other people disagreed.

possible scum went with a strategy of denying town strong roles rather than taking the strongest ones themselves

[petapan]

Okay, that’s a reasonable take to have on it

I don’t think the hammer was actually that scummy in itself, I think self-preservation is p NAI especially when you have a PR and TGP was more or less the decided guillo by that point

wasn't close to deadline and absolutely does not excuse voting with a scumread on someone he was vaguely defending when his only reasoning was "don't vote park me"

[petapan]

I think informed is overall suboptimal compared to multitasking but might make more sense for a scumteam with good draft positions, in line with that

informed/multitasking was picked before draft positions were revealed

[petapan]

Okay, that’s a reasonable take to have on it

I don’t think the hammer was actually that scummy in itself, I think self-preservation is p NAI especially when you have a PR and TGP was more or less the decided guillo by that point

wasn't close to deadline and absolutely does not excuse voting with a scumread on someone he was vaguely defending when his only reasoning was "don't vote park me"

Ehh still

If I know I’m town, and I have a PR, and pressure is starting to build on me and there’s clearly a majority who are at least okay with flipping my CW I’d hammer regardless of a scumread being on the wagon, I might just be wrong after all

Like I think dunn is quite likely to be scum but I don’t think the hammer is an open and shut case

i agree the action in and of itself is not inherently bad but it's the way he did it and the context around it that i despise. didn't even notice that you'd asked for a hammer 2 posts before. i don't think any amount of self-pres excuses a hammer at the request of your main scumread

[petapan]

I actually sort of think lilith and dunn could be scum together

wouldn't rule it out given 330 and 2351

[petapan]

why infinity, exactly? do you still think menalque is likely to be scum

[petapan]

that is a puzzling assortment of names

[petapan]

kill indicates scum r not concerned with pr hunting so just start chopping from the top down imo

[petapan]

We're kinda at the point where the nk's and claimed night actions are bizarre, and i think it bears digging into


Like the nk's coupled with lilith's choices for her actions are not super easily explained if she's town, but if she's scum and has to coordinate those, things start making a bit more sense

suspicion of infinity is at least consistent w/ her past expressed opinions, so, meh. not saying that makes her town though

[petapan]

fwiw had been having similar concerns about smart but was going to see what he did today

[petapan]

I also feel iffy about him switching to a jackson TR.

it's not like a

hard

townread but if i'm being honest "calm the fuck down i'm just trying to play the game" when i was arguing with them felt a townie sort of indignance even if i had issues with what they were actually doing

[petapan]

jailkeeper's a strong role and has obvious benefits for scum in acting as a roleblock while denying town a protective, it took me looking at 2 old games to find an instance of scum taking it high in the draft (pick number 2). i don't think the role selection is necessarily clearing and don't townread her on content but i'm getting the vote i want more right now.

kind of sort of feel like skitter would not pursue a target so singlemindedly as scum but that's more on the idea that most people would pivot off if it became clear it wasn't viable, don't have an idea if that thing would be in her wheelhouse or not

[petapan]

it is ~interesting~ that there is basically one wagon with no opposition but there is a big chunk of players right now that are passive to say the least. i like the people i'm voting with, though, even if they do not trust me

[petapan]

He has directly crumbed at least one of the roles you mentioned.

Well since it's out there, i'll just say i spotted this too, and this is the primary reason i'm opposing dunn rn

I explicitlydo not tr him on play

I will not push for Dunn’s actual flip until you get back, although I do want that claim now that we have intent

Have a good one! Also agree it would be fun if this was elaborate theatre

ty
and you don't need to wait for me, i just said what i was thinking tbh so like whatever
he's probably gonna claim what he softed

idk if i believe it or not but if we're not gonna vote out lilith we can't really vote him out either :shrug:

so let me get this straight: you want to flip lilith, claim be damned, and say that the scumteam could reasonably deduce most roles by now, but oppose the vote on Dunnstral because he crumbed a role?

[petapan]

Peta why does scum!lilith claim when she does? Also what happens if dunn is town and how likely do you think that is?

if she thinks she can get an elimination out of it and take pressure off her it's basically no risk? it would be unusual but not out of the realm of possibility. if i'm wrong on dunnstral, same as always when you're wrong, pick up the pieces and refocus? i don't like to handicap the chances of my vote flipping scum but atp i'm not as confident in anyone else. the lilith thing is partly, well, someone else has a strong read so i'm willing to follow it but increasingly i find myself not really aligning with skitter's perspective on the game so i'm not even sure about doing that

One basic principle is that you don't pressure suspected TPRs because they have greater utility on average than non-PRs. Especially in a game like this, you give them room to operate.

The other basic principle works like "duck typing" in programming. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck. Someone who isn't scumhunting, especially those making an effort to be present but not scumhunt, are typically scum. My gold standard for this is people either not expressing scumreads, or saying things about alignment opinions but never giving a real reason.

By the TPR principle I'm explicitly against pressuring the top 5-6 draft picks early in the game, regardless of behavior. They can be the last elims because the ones left standing are the ones most likely to be scum. If we have a doc we may get lucky and have more no-kill nights, extending the game to the point where a pure mechanical solve is possible. If we have 1-shots that are more useful the smaller the player list gets, we give them room and don't out them so that scum don't know who the real danger is.

it's super unlikely we have multiple no-kill nights in a row and at any rate it's not that early, it's day 3. if we miss hitting scum today the best thing to do is to have everyone claim tomorrow anyway. i'm not sure how exactly you expect the top slots to resolve themselves?

[petapan]

hoopla votes suck ass there's no case there

i think what dunn is doing is a likely towntell but would still policy him out of the game

i have a crackpot theorywith regard to the neighborizer based on probably guesses of who it could be given limited info that might make it scum? but that's resting on several assumptions

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

[petapan]

ehhh dave/JVslot/infinity(???) i find myself uncertain

[petapan]

meh

VOTE: Infinity 324

throwing a dart

[petapan]

I also don't think Best Birb flipping scum would spew Hoopla town because that's a gambit I can imagine Hoopla pulling, given how insistent she was that it barely ever happens.

to wit, she literally has had her teammates do it, in an early, non X/Y PYP. granted, the roleset for that game was weaker than X/Y but i would not rule out her doing it again, although it's debatable whether she'd double up herself rather than leaving it to teammates (but that just leads down the rabbit hole of WIFOM)

[petapan]

in case it is not clear: i don't think he's scum now. let's try elsewhere.

[petapan]

i don't know i was thinking just standoffishly antitown, what makes you say it's a scumclaim

[petapan]

i wanna hear what people think he was softing i guess but i'll think about it

[petapan]

What information are we keeping from scum if they dont claim it

More importantly, why are we hammering town instead of the guy who tried to make the kill?

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

Don't vote park me

this feels TMIy (the "why are we hammering town" bit) combined with him then... hammering TGP who I was pushing as scum? so like uhh why does town!dunn do that esp with something as weak as "don't vote park me" as his reasoning

i thought you didn't necessarily see his hammer as that bad at the start of the day?

[petapan]

thought the attitude he gave toward claiming was more likely how town claims in this situation? the screw you guys i'm not claiming, followed by just outing as vt, doesn't feel like a likely scum approach but i might be overthinking there

[petapan]

lol why the fuck would i pick rolecop as town and why would i soft it

[petapan]

i'm probably overthinking this, let's kill dunn, hard seeing scum outside him, infinity is still town and i was being dumb

VOTE: dunnstral

[petapan]

not gonna let a claim get in the way of, uh, everything else

[petapan]

Would be good to get that confirmation tho

tbf there is a possibility it was on me (for reasons) and that it got blocked by the JK shot

jailkeeper doesn't stop actions on its target so that doesn't work

i still have a crackpot theory about the neighborizer but i don't know if i should even mention it

[petapan]

meh how about this: what if Uncrowned was neighborized and sum decided keeping up appearances in the hood was going to be too much trouble so they shot him

[petapan]

I'm sorta wondering what scum are doing in this gamestate if dunn is scum--the answer is probably bussing, but I'm not sure why they felt the need to bus. Imo the case on dunn isn't rock solid, and dave or me seem like reasonable targets to push instead. It's wine, but something to think about.

i'm not sure what a bunch of people are doing regardless of alignment but we seem to have hit a wall

[petapan]

i've had that thought lingering but i'm not really going to get bent out of shape if that is the case at this point

[petapan]

i wish i had real reads

[petapan]

Well there goes one problem

kind of a weird way to open

[petapan]

i think it's far more preferable to have claims today

[petapan]

i want people to be forced into claims now that we can potentially deduce something from, rather than claiming what's convenient on lylo.

[petapan]

i would really strongly distrust a cop claim on lylo

[petapan]

If scum are most of the way done figuring out the setup and we have no clue, wouldn't a massclaim help us more?

The cop should claim today for sure.

i feel like the cop role is very likely in scum's hands which is why i want people to have to out and not just kill lilith

[petapan]

because everyone who could be a cop has posted and none of them are playing like they're a cop