Death Curse

[Titus]

Alright. Let's take a look at this setup and its rules. I basically subbed in due to the length of the game and how I felt no one would take this.

If you'll excuse me.

[Titus]

Alright, I read the rules and the VCs.

My question is... why is the Noraa wagon so static without a counterwagon?

[Titus]

Ok, someone explain how a scumkill be negated in this setup?

Are we presuming if we hit scum on the last round then it's negated?

[Titus]

Ok, someone explain how a scumkill be negated in this setup?

Are we presuming if we hit scum on the last round then it's negated?

Yes.

So effectively, we need to find two scums to end the day. Who is the consensus second? Have we been using HURT tags to indicate a preference?

[Titus]

My question is... why is the Noraa wagon so static without a counterwagon?

Either it's the easiest miselm ever or scum bussed immediately because it went downhill too fast

Those are usually the options. That's why I asked for the case on Noraa to determine which it was.

[Titus]

If we are not doing Noraa first then I would lean more on Unowen is scum which was mentioned earlier. And also I wanted to add on #101 what Theta said are my thoughts exactly. On #680 it looked like Isis also had the same thoughts as me and Theta which makes me think Isis is also probably town with Theta. On #708 Unowen said Isis is suspicious and I would have assumed town Unowen would have picked up on what Theta was saying on #101 and would have also assumed Isis also picked up on this too and would have leaned town on Isis. This makes me think scum did not know town were asked to confirm that scum had daytalk.

I also saw somewhere that doing this t>s>t is bad and I'm assuming town would have to pass the scroll to a town read if the first scroll is handed to a town player.

you never pass the scroll to a townie on purpose. the use of the second scrollholder should be to give the scroll to people who are hard to sort. that way you sort the slot and if its town you lose nothing. but its never bad to give the scroll to scum.

Assuming Noraa does flip scum, then we should be passing to a consensus scumread to keep the chain moving.
Assuming Noraa flips town, then she should take a shot at the unreadables on her wagon to aim for the scum pushing her wagon.

That's supposing I'm still in favor of a Noraa flip after hearing the case.

[Titus]

So effectively, we need to find two scums to end the day. Who is the consensus second? Have we been using HURT tags to indicate a preference?

There is no consensus second, and we have been doing nothing of that sort. It is expected that whichever town takes the scroll will not be listening to instruction, except for this phase where there appears to be consensus that Noraa should be one of the cursed.

Why wouldn't we want the town who takes the scroll to have direction?

[Titus]

Alright, I read the rules and the VCs.

My question is... why is the Noraa wagon so static without a counterwagon?

that was my question too! im learning, titus!

Ok, you can be in my townbin for now. I'm a sucker for kissasses.

[Titus]

Those are usually the options. That's why I asked for the case on Noraa to determine which it was.

I would sum up the case as this:
- Noraa had what looked like a fake town slip early on about the number of scum there are in the game
- When pressured, Noraa went into LAMIST content generation mode
- Noraa talked about passing the scroll to LLD, who is widely town read, out of spite. This looks like a setup to make it seem as if the blatant town kill isn't actually coming from scum to keep some confusion going into the 3rd flip.

This sounds like Noraa is just an angry emotional player. I'd be run up half my games with this standard. Do you not believe the case?

[Titus]

Why wouldn't we want the town who takes the scroll to have direction?

Direction yes, instruction no.

Why? It's not like there's a mob doctor.

[Titus]

she recently said that she fakes townslips in all her scum games.

Where is this?

[Titus]

Why? It's not like there's a mob doctor.

Because most people will want to have some degree of autonomy over their venge-kill.

Fair enough. Enjoyment over objectively good approach.

In the future, I'd still love to see hurt tags as a secondary vote.

[Titus]

because you said in the postgame here:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12236870

that you fake townslips as scum, and

Isis are you allowed to tell us how many scum there are?

looks like a faked townslip.

I don't really believe you didn't read the first page of the setup and dont know how many scum there are.

I want to vote Noraa after that, but I don't want to end the day. I'm not a big fan of meta usually but when it's self prescribed then...

[Titus]

In the future, I'd still love to see hurt tags as a secondary vote.

We have been avoiding this to avoid giving scum info about who to kill, as they can choose townies who won't kill them. Whether or not you agree with that approach.

A competent scumteam will have been reading the thread and know this anyway though?

[Titus]

Ugh, I just want content so I can get into this game.

[Titus]

Oh ok.

VOTE: Noraa

[Titus]

do you guys notice how t-swift shut her mouth about Pooky being scum the second I offered her the 1 for 1 trade?

where did all that 95% confidence go?

i'll tell, you she's full of it and just made that up. If T-Swift town actually had 95% conviction that Pooky = scum then she would take this 1:1 in a heartbeat.

Why would TSwift have to endanger herself to have a confident scumread?

[Titus]

cuz if she was actually confident she'd be willing to 1:1 me

I don't see confidence as requiring suicidal stupidity. Why not just get you passed a scroll?

[Titus]

who else do you think is scum

No ideas why you explained the joke. Rest may follow.

Hey Lapsa. No time no see.

[Titus]

there's 15 townies and 5 scum. Willing to take a bullet to take out a scum is not "suicidal stupidity".

Yes it is if you can get them executed without dying first

[Titus]

that's literally not how the game works

So TS can't get the group consensus pass to you?

[Titus]

I don't know what did or did not happen. I just don’t see how someone has to take a 1 v 1 in this setup to have a confident scumread.

[Titus]

Reading your particular events wouldn't change my opinion. It's a setup based one, not one based on any particular fact.

Now, if someone claiming a confident scumread decided to blow up anyone but their scumread, we can take it as a scumclaim. We'd have to get them a scroll first, which requires independent reasons for them to be scummy.

Do you have those?

P.S. I don't read on subbing in.

[Titus]

Why is the adorable wagon a thing?

[Titus]

VOTE: Pooky

Say something other than this 1 v 1.

[Titus]

@Hopkirk - I hope the spectators like me.

[Titus]

I see Taylor as T. I don't like Pooky's hyperfocus on Taylor. I want to see him comment or push elsewhere. Basically, my Pooky push is to try and save Taylor because she might just understand me this game...or maybe I am Charlie Brown.

As for the spectators, none of them scare me. I just like for everyone to have a good time reading my posts.

[Titus]

@Titus - not sure if anyone directly said this, but all flips happen after the third lethal. We don't get to see what the first flip is before they scroll someone else or they scroll someone else else.

Yes but I don't see how that's relevant. Taylor dies whether or not in first secord or third. I'd like to avoid that. Hopefully by wagoning Pooky, we get him to talk about things elsewhere. Otherwise, we accept Pooky!scum, Taylor is the sacrifice who hopefully eliminates Noraa.

[Titus]

That wasn't in relation to anything specific. I just noticed you'd mentioned something that sounded like you weren't aware of it, and wanted to make sure you were. Obviously there's a big difference in flipping someone and knowing what they are then updating reads based on that vs 3 simultaneous flips where there's two chances for reads to update.

Got a read on Fidget?

Not yet. I hope to by Eo real life day.

[Titus]

I'll be popping in and out but Saturday is my DnD day.

[Titus]

Wow y'all went to town.

[Titus]

Honestly, consider my vote on anyone other than LLD or Pooky.

PEdit: Nope.

Why is Pooky exempted for you?

LLD hasn't been here but looking at the activity overview, I'll suppose that's RL.

I'm not sure what you think buddying is, but even if you've got an idea then you've still got a thing or two to learn about it buddy.

LL isn't even the third biggest personality in this thread. She just wants to think she is. That's why I'm sending all sorts of subtle, thinly veiled mean comments at her. Pooky absolutely didn't put me up to it.

(I'm not sure how you read those last two posts as serious btw, that's kind of weird)

I don't follow this post. Is this a joking post or real?

Can we flash wagon Lapsa?

You're ok with a Noraa wagon first but not Pooky or Taylor. Why? You also seem ok with a Lapsa wagon.

What is your intended order of scrolls?

@Bottom of 79 - Toog could be scum looking to put scum earlier in the scroll order.

[Titus]

They’ve given us everything we need to read them correctly if we still can’t see that they’re town this game than this town sucks.

I'm willing to eat my hat

go eat your hat

If someone like FL had made this post, I’d completely dismiss it but it sounds super confident to me.

I’m going to call it, I don’t think Noraa’s scum here.

And if I’m right, scum is likely to be found in the slots eagerly pushing her.

This is particularly why Tayl0r and Noraa should never eat scrolls on the same day because I agree with Titus that she’s very likely town here but I can’t imagine scum!Tayl0r going out on a limb for town!Noraa, so if Noraa flips town, Tayl0r is almost certainly town as well.

!pocketed

@Bell and Gloria,

The only possible way I see to save Noraa that I see is a scum!pooky vote who then votes Taylor who we then discuss who to vote for. I'm not saying this because I feel Noraa should be saved, I'm rather null on her. I just want scum!Pooky gone.

We aren't going to miseliminate Taylor first because that gives scum!Pooky a shot at obvtown.

[Titus]

TLDR, I don't think Taylor is salvageable today but we should at least get her some agency rather than handing it to Pooky

[Titus]

TLDR, I don't think Taylor is salvageable today but we should at least get her some agency rather than handing it to Pooky

You think Tayl0r is that widely scum read?

No. I just see Pooky likely getting a scroll today in the first two spots unless we execute Noraa first and Noraa Pooky is S v S. I don't see Pooky Taylor as S v S.

If Pooky gets a scroll, he blows up Taylor (unless he's second slot scum).

Given I feel Taylor is town, and I lean scum on Pooky due to the excessive tunnel on Taylor to the excusion of everyone else, I would rather Taylor have agency or Pooky scumclaim.

[Titus]

@Pooky, I don't read on subbing in. Talk to me about not Taylor reads.

[Titus]

right you just sub in dont read and then make stuff up


cool awesome

Just what have I made up?

You said yourself that in a 1 v 1, a slot shouldn't mind going first. I am holding you to that. Or is that suddenly a problem?

[Titus]

@Pooky, I don't read on subbing in.

Talk to me about not Taylor reads.

Also the bolded.

[Titus]

right you just sub in dont read and then make stuff up


cool awesome

Just what have I made up?

You said yourself that in a 1 v 1, a slot shouldn't mind going first. I am holding you to that. Or is that suddenly a problem?

do you have a selective reading problem?

I am still asking for non Taylor reads. You're proving my point here.

[Titus]

I think Titus goes from null to SR because I really dislike this jumping around without good reasoning

We can have Taylor nuke you.

[Titus]

If you haven't given non Taylor reads since I subbed in, they are stale. Telling me to read the game doesn't absolve you of answering where your current reads are.

[Titus]

@Bell, join me on Pooky.

We can discuss Noraa hand off on a later time because we disagree. Pooky is acting like caught scum above the execution here.

[Titus]

@Bell, join me on Pooky.

We can discuss Noraa hand off on a later time because we disagree. Pooky is acting like caught scum above the execution here.

Why can't people see that Shelly rolled scum this game.

@Inb4 shelly says she didn't (when she actually still did).

Shelly might be scum. Hard to see in the noise.

[Titus]

can someone make a case on pooky or something because that slot is bleeding town

also for reasons I will not discuss my SR on bell has decreased slightly

Not sure how you get bleeding town from a slot that only can scream Taylor is scum.

[Titus]

Ok here's the situation.

Do we give the scroll to Noraa and go for an S-T-?

Or do we give the scroll to Pooky and get a LS-T-? (hopefully Noraa)

Or do we pick a third person?

We need 11 votes in two days. The time for sitting around is over. I've got my stance in.

[Titus]

Titus explain ur read on me

It's pretty clear that I scumread you and like the cases presented against you.

[Titus]

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35)

What are we doing crew?

This is town. I still favor Pooky but I would do Noraa to get the game moving.

[Titus]

VOTE: Toogeloo

Why do you keep voting vanity wagons?

[Titus]

VOTE: Toogeloo

Not sure it's right but definitely not sure it's wrong and we need a wagon.

[Titus]

VOTE: Toogeloo

Whya re we voting toogs?

this is also a scum claim btw

I know you said no questions but why would scum ever vote a buddy here?

[Titus]

I'm going to be distracted across all games. Landlord just gave me 30 days notice.

[Titus]

LLD, who should we swing the wagon to if Toog is a terrible play? Hopkirk? You think he's defending Noraa? Why not just push Noraa then?

[Titus]

Good news is, I got the apartment.

Bad news... it's unfurnished.

So less anxiety but less time.

[Titus]

This gamestate, maybe this setup, is particularly frustrating. I win by finding and protecting my townreads (despite how tunnely I get, I know its not my best play). This setup makes it hard to do that.

For instance, I heavily lean town on Taylor. By necessity, that means I can only eliminate Pooky in the third position. That's problematic because I don't know Pooky is scum.

The other option is to accept my townread's eventual death but make her second, so she has agency to kill the scum.

Neither is a good option.

This whole setup feels like picking the less bad option.

[Titus]

I'll do this tomorrow. Hopefully my raging stress headache will be gone by then.

[Titus]

My braincells are leaving me.

[Titus]

Noraa
Pooky
Adorable
Lapsa
Theta

Subject to change. Not ranked.

[Titus]

Besides... In mafia, only scum is afraid of dying. Town only dies to scum if they've done something right, and it should be a badge of honor.

this is mad true

why noraa/taylor r scum

no townie fears death

I fear death.

If I can get scum eliminated without dying, why not? Town has 5 scum to catch.

[Titus]

I am struggling to keep up with this game. I don't know why.

[Titus]

I opted to put in Titus' entries as if they were ranked.

Just need entries from LLD, Theta, and Gloria.

Thank you. Given real life, it would be hard to rank them.

[Titus]

You need Zdenek too.

[Titus]

Can we stop with 6 pages in three hours? I am just not reading that.

[Titus]

I don't see the advantage in terms of gamestate to troll. They could troll for fun.

They could also discuss it.

[Titus]

Throw it at taylor.

No. Pooky. He's literally a spam bot to kill town!taylor.

If not Pooky, then Noraa.

[Titus]

Ok well Vax is town cuz of the reaction. Scum just comes in the thread, says fuck you all, and goes to their pt to discuss. That basically means that we have hit two town so far. Toog'd have to be in the acting world if that reaction was from scum and scum!vax has no business faking shit rn.
Baiscally a road map: T -> T -> ?

my top SR is Fidget and it has wavered a tiny bit due to her recent posting which I find a bit townier than before but I still do think that slot is prolly scum and I believe for the most part, people agree that slot is scum.

noraa is town after all

Talk to me about Noraa town. I don't want to get burned again.

[Titus]

nono hopkirk is town!!

I lean town there too.

[Titus]

@Tayl0r How do you respond to the allegation that Noraa is scum because they faked a scumslip and she admitted that's her meta as scum?

@Noraa, I strongly lean Taylor town here. She didn't pick fights like this as scum in the other game.

[Titus]

Let's say Taylor is town(I am no longer convinced I must say). Why would you care what scum!Noraa thinks about town!Taylor's alignment?

Well first, I am resorting you. Both you and Taylor have made good points.

Second, in the event you are scum, listening to you helps sort allies when you flip.

Third, you could TMI a slot.

There's no downside in getting out how a player feels.

[Titus]

@Noraa, LLD's pretty good. I figure if she still holds that read she has good reason for it. Hopkirk got two of his eliminations and struck out both times. Time to actually give someone with a reputation for being good a try rather than just the loudest voice in the room.

Does Hopkirk have a reputation for being good? Should we be worried two of his picks flipping town is AI?

[Titus]

I can buy that, but I kind of don't want to. On the surface, I really like Hopkirk's posting.

[Titus]

Shelley might be scum, but the only reason I have to suspect her is weak meta and bad. She's much more active here than large normal 229 (Manatee's mafia).

[Titus]

Shelly doesnt address it. Like if they really believed they were scum, why give the names?

Why not? If scum!toog curses you, then it might suggest something about your reads. There's no point in refusing to answer a question about reads unless pulling a gambit or waiting for an event to happen.

[Titus]

My biggest wish is that hopkirk noraa and shelly would be quieter allowing me to read other people.

[Titus]

Titus, I know you're going through some stuff, but I remember you being more like LLD was in the beginning of this game with your playstyle... very aggressive, like a dog on a bone, and now you seem more passive. Have you become more relaxed over the past year or so?

Yes. This is for two reasons. First is time. I simply have less time to post, which is more time spent listening. Second, is the divorce changed my personality somewhat where I am less aggressive.

You can check out my most recent finished towngame to compare. I had a similar pattern there, only aggressive when convinced.

[Titus]

Titus, I know you're going through some stuff, but I remember you being more like LLD was in the beginning of this game with your playstyle... very aggressive, like a dog on a bone, and now you seem more passive. Have you become more relaxed over the past year or so?

Yes. This is for two reasons. First is time. I simply have less time to post, which is more time spent listening. Second, is the divorce changed my personality somewhat where I am less aggressive.

You can check out my most recent finished towngame to compare. I had a similar pattern there, only aggressive when convinced.

[Titus]

has anyone noticed that pooky and uno are lurky all of a sudden? pooky disappeared hoping we would forget him and he wouldnt get the scroll

This is a thing too.

[Titus]

Titus: Pooky is just a spambot trying to kill Taylor

Pooky shuts up.

Titus: Pooky is a lurker trying to avoid the scroll


rofl ok whatever titus

I didn't say you were a lurker, but that you were lurking/avoiding the thread.

Your beetlejuice only serves as more evidence of such.

Not sure if you know this, but the last time I had a scumread that beetlejuiced... yup they were scum.

[Titus]

i literally stopped posting because you were bitching about how I was posting too much

but thanks titus

i really appreciate it

Why would you be appeasing a scumread?

[Titus]

I dunno, I wish I talked to more people.

Talk to me after I am done moving?

[Titus]

Also I hope Vax goes for Unowen or Fidget so that I'll have been able to drive all three deaths. Lady's going to be so jealous with her inability to get either of her top two picks through after claiming to be a 'town leader'.

Yuck. This is petty and/or scummy.

[Titus]

Also I hope Vax goes for Unowen or Fidget so that I'll have been able to drive all three deaths. Lady's going to be so jealous with her inability to get either of her top two picks through after claiming to be a 'town leader'.

Yuck. This is petty and/or scummy.

That’s prob TSTBS Titus join kill uno gang

Hyper focusing on my whatever adora thing, doing no solving, being lazy and trying to get noraa cred

If it's scummy and leading town away from scumflips and bragging about doing so, how is that too bad to be scum?

His OMGUS is bad too.

Right now, I am team LLD.

[Titus]

3894 is bragging about getting your picks over LLD. Toog and Vax are pretty obviously town at this point. You won't be convinced though. If Vax is town, you're 0-2, why should he follow you? You're more about control than finding scum.

[Titus]

I think we get a TTS flip here based on the reactions in thread.

[Titus]

Pooky or Shelly, I want to leave one of you in charge of lightly shading Lady whenever she posts. Don'tbe mean, just be slightly passive agressive.

i can do this too

Why are we taking directions from scum?

[Titus]

updated scumlist as of eod {uno, titus, fidget, bell, pooky}

What?

[Titus]

Pooky or Shelly, I want to leave one of you in charge of lightly shading Lady whenever she posts. Don'tbe mean, just be slightly passive agressive.

i can do this too

Why are we taking directions from scum?

hopkirk was obvtown before the flip and is still obvtown now.

I really don't see what you're getting at. LLD, when town, is a great voice that should be sheeped, not ridiculed/shaded without reason. Hopkirk wanting control over all else is scummy.

[Titus]

Well, we'll see if I am right at the flip.

@TS, 3894 is very scummy in a game like this.

[Titus]

LLD was rude earlier so ill be passive-aggressive now. i can be a bit passive-aggressive and chirp her a bit but still cooperate and play as a team.

LLD is rude and has no complusion about manipulating biggest weakness as scum. Based on what little she's posted since I arrived, I don't see that.

[Titus]

Well, we'll see if I am right at the flip.

@TS, 3894 is very scummy in a game like this.

it was clearly a joke

If it was a joke, no one told me sooner when I began casing him. Vax obviously didn't see a joke either.

[Titus]

oh and the bigger reason titus is scum is that she isnt doing and VCA or any of her usual hunting stuff.

I can't VCA without flips. There's literally nothing to do on that front until the mod gets back.

That's another reason to flip Noraa though.

[Titus]

i might have to eat my hat for saying this in a minute, but now that the scroll has been passed to two people i repeatedly said were obvtown and one we all agree is town, maybe we can listen to me when i say people are town?

Who's town

She thinks Noraa is town. I know that. I've been trying to get her to explain that one.

[Titus]

Hopkirk's still a scumflip right? LLD?

[Titus]

Tbh, I think this thread needs a bit more bluntness and to stop hiding behind others or jokes. Popular opinions need vetting here. Regardless of Hopkirk's alignment, TT seems pretty obvious. We can't allow that again.

[Titus]

oh and the bigger reason titus is scum is that she isnt doing and VCA or any of her usual hunting stuff.

I can't VCA without flips. There's literally nothing to do on that front until the mod gets back.

That's another reason to flip Noraa though.

what? that logic sure doesn't click with me....
wdym no VCA so we need to flip noraa?

Flipping you tells us more about your wagon.

[Titus]

Popular opinions need vetting here. Regardless of Hopkirk's alignment, TT seems pretty obvious. We can't allow that again.

I mean, we literally could just go T>T>S the whole game and win no?

*does math*

You're right. I guess it's not as bad as I thought.

[Titus]

Popular opinions need vetting here. Regardless of Hopkirk's alignment, TT seems pretty obvious. We can't allow that again.

I mean, we literally could just go T>T>S the whole game and win no?

*does math*

You're right. I guess it's not as bad as I thought.

TITUS

I DID THE MATH EARLIER WHEN I

oh my goddddddddddddddddddd

[Titus]

That does make a fair amount of sense. I'm not my brother, so I won't check the exact math. I take it you're suspicious of anyone who derailed the Noraa wagon right?

[Titus]

Well we third scrolled Hopkirk so that should be fine. Then we can first scroll Noraa.

[Titus]

VOTE: Noraa

[Titus]

@Titus are you gonna VCA?

Yes but next week.

VLA until Monday. Friday night is game night. Saturday is DnD. Sunday I'm moving.

[Titus]

I am probably going to just play from where my vla ends.

[Titus]

Extending VLA 48 hours

Moving is taking longer than I think. Sorry.

[Titus]

Popping in here really quick because I see something I can engage with and then continue moving.

Tayl0r, why does the wagon composition mean Fred is 90% town? Given your current track record (me scum Noraa town) I am more inclined to get onto Fred, not turn away. Is there anything about his play? Or are all your reads associations?

[Titus]

@Mush, No one knows how to read me when I am not VLA.

[Titus]

@Mush, No one knows how to read me when I am not VLA.

i thought you said youre bad at scum?

No. I am not bad at scum. My skill level as either alignment depends on my mood but I'm never purely bad at either.

I'm better when depressed as town because I am harder to buddy and more savage.

I'm better at scum when I'm happy because I have free flowing thoughts and a warmer personality.

That doesn't mean scum!Titus can't be savage or town!Titus can't be bubbly. That's just when I am best.

[Titus]

Popping in here really quick because I see something I can engage with and then continue moving.

Tayl0r, why does the wagon composition mean Fred is 90% town? Given your current track record (me scum Noraa town) I am more inclined to get onto Fred, not turn away. Is there anything about his play? Or are all your reads associations?

i mean i called all three flips yesterday as town... the same people are driving today's wagon.

Specifically who.

[Titus]

Spoiler: VCs

Votecount 1.1

[4] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis

, Fidget, Zdenek,

Hopkirk

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

shellyc

[1] shellyc:

VaultDweller

[1] Bell:

Lapsa

[13] Not Voting:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Tayl0r Swift, Gloria Cleary,

Toogeloo

, Theta Alpine, Bell, MURDERCAT, UNOwen, MUSHSHAGANA, Flea The Magician, Adorable, Lady Lambdadelta, Noraa

Votecount 1.2

[4] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis

, Fidget, Zdenek,

Toogeloo

[4] Noraa:

UNOwen, Lady Lambdadelta,

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

shellyc, Tayl0r Swift

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[2] Bell:

Lapsa, Flea The Magician

[1] Adorable:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Adorable, Theta Alpine

Votecount 1.3

[8] Noraa:

UNOwen, Lady Lambdadelta,

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT, PookyTheMagicalBear, Adorable, Flea The Magician,

Toogeloo

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

shellyc, Tayl0r Swift

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis

[1] Bell:

Lapsa

[1] Adorable:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Theta Alpine, Fidget, Zdenek

Votecount 1.4

[9] Noraa:

UNOwen, Lady Lambdadelta,

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT, PookyTheMagicalBear, Adorable, Flea The Magician,

Toogeloo

, shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

Tayl0r Swift

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis

[1] Bell:

Lapsa

[1] Adorable:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Theta Alpine, Fidget, Zdenek

Votecount 1.5

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT

[3]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Isis

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[2] Bell:

Lapsa, shellyc

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

Tayl0r Swift, Theta Alpine

[1] Adorable:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Fidget, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.6

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT

[3]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Vaxkiller

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[2] Bell:

Lapsa, shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

Theta Alpine

[1] Adorable:

Noraa

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Fidget, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.7

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT

[3] Adorable:

Noraa, Theta Alpine,

Vaxkiller

[2]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[2] Bell:

Lapsa, shellyc

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Fidget, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.8

[7] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT, Lapsa, Titus

[3] Adorable:

Noraa, Theta Alpine,

Vaxkiller

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] shellyc:

Bell

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Tayl0r Swift

PookyTheMagicalBear

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Fidget, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.9

[7] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT, Lapsa, Titus

[4] Adorable:

Noraa, Theta Alpine,

Vaxkiller

, Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] shellyc:

Bell

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Tayl0r Swift

PookyTheMagicalBear

[4] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.10

[6] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT, Lapsa

[4] Adorable:

Noraa, Theta Alpine,

Vaxkiller

, Fidget

[2] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift, Titus

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] shellyc:

Bell

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift

PookyTheMagicalBear

[4] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.11

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT,

[3] Adorable:

Noraa, Theta Alpine,

Vaxkiller

[2] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift, Titus

[2] shellyc:

Bell, Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]Lapsa:

Lapsa

[4] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.12

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable, MURDERCAT,

Toogeloo

[2] Adorable:

Theta Alpine,

Vaxkiller

[2] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift, Titus

[2] shellyc:

Bell, Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]Lapsa:

Lapsa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Flea The Magician, Noraa

Votecount 1.13

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable, MURDERCAT,

Toogeloo

[3] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift, Titus, Gloria Cleary

[2] Adorable:

Theta Alpine,

Vaxkiller

[2] shellyc:

Bell, Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]Lapsa:

Lapsa

[5] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Flea The Magician, Noraa

Votecount 1.14

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable, MURDERCAT,

Toogeloo

[3] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift, Titus, Gloria Cleary

[2] Adorable:

Theta Alpine,

Vaxkiller

[2] shellyc:

Bell, Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]Lapsa:

Lapsa

[4] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Flea The Magician, Noraa

Votecount 1.15

[4] Noraa:

UNOwen,

Hopkirk

, Adorable,

Toogeloo

[4] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift, Titus, Gloria Cleary, MURDERCAT

[2] Adorable:

Theta Alpine,

Vaxkiller

[2] shellyc:

Bell, Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]Lapsa:

Lapsa

[4] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Flea The Magician, Noraa

Votecount 1.16

[6]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

, shellyc, MURDERCAT, Titus,

Toogeloo

, Theta Alpine

[2] Bell:

Tayl0r Swift,

Vaxkiller

[2] Noraa:

UNOwen, Adorable

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell

[2] shellyc:

Fidget, Flea The Magician

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1] Adorable:

Lapsa

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[3] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Noraa

Votecount 1.17

[6]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

, shellyc, MURDERCAT, Titus,

Toogeloo

, Theta Alpine

[2] Bell:

Tayl0r Swift,

Vaxkiller

[2] Noraa:

UNOwen, Adorable

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell

[2] shellyc:

Fidget, Flea The Magician

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1] Adorable:

Lapsa

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[3] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Noraa

Votecount 1.18

[9]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

, shellyc, MURDERCAT, Titus,

Toogeloo

, Theta Alpine, MUSHSHAGANA, Lady Lambdadelta, Noraa

[2] Bell:

Tayl0r Swift,

Vaxkiller

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell

[2] shellyc:

Fidget, Flea The Magician

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1] Adorable:

Lapsa

[1] Lapsa:

UNOwen

[1] Not Voting:

Zdenek

Votecount 1.19

[8]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT, Titus,

Toogeloo

, Theta Alpine, MUSHSHAGANA, Lady Lambdadelta, Noraa

[3] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell, shellyc

[2] Bell:

Tayl0r Swift,

Vaxkiller

[2] shellyc:

Fidget, Flea The Magician

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1] Adorable:

Lapsa

[1] Lapsa:

UNOwen

[1] Not Voting:

Zdenek

Votecount 1.20

(FINAL)

[11]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT, Titus,

Toogeloo

, Theta Alpine, MUSHSHAGANA, Lady Lambdadelta, Noraa, UNOwen, shellyc, Bell

HAMMER

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell

[2] Bell:

Tayl0r Swift,

Vaxkiller

[2] shellyc:

Fidget, Flea The Magician

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1] Adorable:

Lapsa

[1] Not Voting:

Zdenek

Prodge, I have stuff to say about this and my next post but I'm not ready to write it all up yet

Quoting this so I find it easier when this move ends.

[Titus]

Glad I wasn't the only one confused.

[Titus]

I feel like there was a reason I townread Titus but I don't remember. Can you obvtown Titus or remind my Pooky?

she probly doesnt attack me like this if she's scum

her posts reflect a willful ignorance about the game state that doesn't seem faked - if she had a scum PT to look at I can't imagine she would be this clueless about what's happened already in the game.

+1

Titus is very obviously town here. Absolutely anyone with any decent meta on her can verify that.

I am afraid you have me at a disadvantage. I am one of the least metable players on site, and I don't even try to hide my meta. That's because meta is usually shit unless personality driven.

That being said, I can see a Fred Taylor link. Taylor would absolutely ignore valid points on Marashu in the last game. This makes me think she just hyper defends her partners as a matter of personality. Comments?

[Titus]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84335

[Titus]

@MC,are you not reading my posts? Because I unvoted. I’m null on Fred and I think Pooky and Shelley are probably town.

Yours is the vote I'm least worried about of the 3

Pooky sounds both irritated and amused by the srs on him rather than AtEing about it, which is more his scum meta.

Wrt Shelley, I don’t find her scummy but I don’t have much familiarity with her play.

Here's the problem I have. Pooky and Taylor as possible scum but are they really theater?

[Titus]

Here's the problem I have. Pooky and Taylor as possible scum but are they really theater?

rofl

Then I get a response like this...

[Titus]

Murder, did you see anything outright manipulative from LLD?

[Titus]

VOTE: Fred

Flea, I'm vain. What's your read on me?

[Titus]

I need a VC desperately.

[Titus]

I should be more active real life tomorrow. My move is 95% done. Today, I have a lot of work to do.

[Titus]

Reminder that Shelly tried to start /two/ counterwagons. One was just as Fred was getting started, the other was at the stall point of the wagon.

What stops Shelly and Taylor from being wrong town though?

[Titus]

It also means we need to start doing serious VCA, and paying close attention to the context of that VCA. Some examples, right?

So I need to do my job tomorrow IRL. Got it.

[Titus]

My god, meta.

[Titus]

Adorable is rather null due to inactivity. I'm ok with it.

[Titus]

Ok my move is done but I am rarely on Saturdays. VCA Sunday.

[Titus]

I think this is a blantant attempt to either have Noraa dead or a second shot for themselves. The last vote LLD cast was Hopkirk (I checked) and she has not hurt tags (also checked). So if LLD doesn't show, mafia pick. If LLD shows, they get a Noraa execution, which is likely town.

[Titus]

No wait it's living player, so the mod goes past Hopkirk

[Titus]

So that's Nora too.

[Titus]

I'll pick the last living/non-cursed player

Unless this is limited to the same game day, LLD passes to Noraa

[Titus]

The wagons will decide.

[Titus]

Mod: Is the last living player rule limited by game day?

[Titus]

I'll pick the last living/non-cursed player

Unless this is limited to the same game day, LLD passes to Noraa

Hmm . . . yeah, this is the likely explanation for all of those nutty LLD/Noraa, Tayl0r/Pooky scum theatre posts. So if this actually happens, we should probably look extremely carefully at Noraa’s reads. If Fred’s scum - which I’m heavily leaning to - then he very clearly didn’t want Noraa to be able to scroll anyone.

It all depends on that rules assertion though.

[Titus]

Gloria, just who are you scumreading? I see a lot of townreads coming from you but I worry I am getting pocketed.

[Titus]

Gloria, just who are you scumreading? I see a lot of townreads coming from you but I worry I am getting pocketed.

I know there’s a lot to read but I think I’ve been pretty clear about this.

If I’m right on Fred flipping scum then I’m going to be focusing on who he left off of his list, because while scum could of course still be in it, that fact remains that he put everyone on it in potential danger. so whomever Fred’s trajectories and reads progression from off that list were suspicious, is probably where most of the scum are.

I think there’s a reason why LLD got the scroll while Mush did not, so that tells me that if Fred is scum than Mush is probably on track, because if Fred is scum, why not scroll Mush who is the most widely consensus tr who is currently having the most influence on the game? Obvious answer: scum!Fred fears Mush’s scroll.

Alright. I'll take this for now, but I expect you to actually look and see who is inconsistently read after the three flips.

To be fair, I'm looking at my VCA asap with the assumption Fred is scum. I just haven't got there because of RL.

[Titus]

VOTE: shellyc
This surely doesn't need much discussing? Two bullets she has dodged, let's just give her the damn scroll and be done with it.

Noraa has technically dodged two bullets (D1 wagon and LLD showing up). Would you be fine wagoning her too?

[Titus]

Can you explain it to me?

See above, she lied openly about trying to derail the Fred!scum wagon onto Taylor.
-Her belief that I am scum is totally insincere (4302). She actually cases me at one point (4989 + 4991) and it was really weak and I can't imagine shelly is actually 80% convinced I am scum based on that.
-All active obvtown had decent chance at cursing shelly last phase, but instead scum decided to pass the scroll to LLD -> probably because they thought she would hit town.
-She pretended throughout the entire first phase to be completely convinced that Noraa was scum, but lost interest in pushing there once the rest of the thread had changed its mind
-Shelly goes from low WIM, sounding pretty unenthusiastic when Bell suggests passing the scroll to her to "fucking hell I hate you" when she "thinks" she has been handed the scroll. Does not sound like a consistent attitude.

I feel that she is pretty obvious at this point.

1) Almost no one thinks a case against them is strong.

2) Forces an assumption that all active town thought shelly was the only pass. This is a wrong assumption because Murder had a "hot take" and I had yet to make up my mind at all. Attempting to force your argument to be more popular than it is sucks.

3) So she's supposed to stay pushing a scumread no one else is listening to? There's 4 scum left, not one.

4) That attitude of why care I am dead to I fucking hate you because I want to play is consistent.

[Titus]

Ok.

VOTE: UNOwen

[Titus]

Spoiler: Titus posts

Can you explain it to me?

See above, she lied openly about trying to derail the Fred!scum wagon onto Taylor.
-Her belief that I am scum is totally insincere (4302). She actually cases me at one point (4989 + 4991) and it was really weak and I can't imagine shelly is actually 80% convinced I am scum based on that.
-All active obvtown had decent chance at cursing shelly last phase, but instead scum decided to pass the scroll to LLD -> probably because they thought she would hit town.
-She pretended throughout the entire first phase to be completely convinced that Noraa was scum, but lost interest in pushing there once the rest of the thread had changed its mind
-Shelly goes from low WIM, sounding pretty unenthusiastic when Bell suggests passing the scroll to her to "fucking hell I hate you" when she "thinks" she has been handed the scroll. Does not sound like a consistent attitude.

I feel that she is pretty obvious at this point.

1) Almost no one thinks a case against them is strong.

2) Forces an assumption that all active town thought shelly was the only pass. This is a wrong assumption because Murder had a "hot take" and I had yet to make up my mind at all. Attempting to force your argument to be more popular than it is sucks.

3) So she's supposed to stay pushing a scumread no one else is listening to? There's 4 scum left, not one.

4) That attitude of why care I am dead to I fucking hate you because I want to play is consistent.

Ok.

VOTE: UNOwen

These posts are really interesting, it seems like there are sides forming around Shelly/Uno

One thing to note is that scum will probably hard defend partners today because they will really want to avoid S>T>S

If Shelly is scum we should come back here

I understand your conclusion. I have a different, although more self serving conclusion.

T->S->T keeps the game at a neutral state.
T->T->T gets scum a near certain victory.

Therefore, if my numbers are correct, and there is a scum in Unowen/Shelly, scum want to avoid it entirely. Town should take a 50/50 and the evidence and move on. Yet town would always favor the one leading to S -> T.

That's why my vote is on Uno.

[Titus]

@Murder, Yes. I am not particularly opposed to a shelly wagon, but I think Uno's "case" makes him the more likely scum. Even if I am wrong, we aren't in a bad spot. Of course, this could be S v S which is why they both look bad.

[Titus]

I think analysis of the wagons will tell the story

I agree with this.

[Titus]

I do think that UNO/shelly felt like TvS but I felt like that about Bell/Shelly as well.

This makes sense why you pick Shelley over Uno then. I'm afraid I didn't read much of that. I am reading the pieces I csn when I am active.

[Titus]

why can't shelly/uno be T/T

Pooky scumread increased if either flips scum.

[Titus]

Consider my vote on the larger of the two but with a preference for Uno.

[Titus]

Work calls

[Titus]

do you actually have a case for S!Shelly?

Uno literally just posted it.

[Titus]

I strongly disagree with this.
LLD thought Owen was the least likely to be scum out of the group. of people that weren't obv town.

Titus's push I do not like.

I don't care what you like. I care about yeeting scum. If you want to get in my way, that's on you. If I am wrong on Unowen, that's on me.

[Titus]

I would like to see you post your own case.

you can copy/paste his case if you agree with it entirely.

you can delete the sections you disagree with or edit it.

So you disagree with Unowen's case but don't find it scummy at all? Particularly the parts where he tries to assert all active town agree with him?

[Titus]

VOTE: Shelly

I'll be back after work.

[Titus]

so shelly has been pushing me as scum with fred for a while. and pooky keeps coming in to defend shelly.

If Pooky is scum, this would be good cop bad cop. Rarely are scum so together like that though.

[Titus]

Spoiler: VCs

¶

Votecount 1.2

[4] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis, Fidget, Zdenek, Toogeloo

[4] Noraa:

UNOwen, Lady Lambdadelta, Hopkirk, MURDERCAT

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

shellyc, Tayl0r Swift

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[2] Bell:

Lapsa, Flea The Magician

[1] Adorable:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Adorable, Theta Alpine

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

¶

Votecount 1.4

[9] Noraa:

UNOwen, Lady Lambdadelta, Hopkirk, MURDERCAT, PookyTheMagicalBear, Adorable, Flea The Magician, Toogeloo, shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

Tayl0r Swift

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis

[1] Bell:

Lapsa

[1] Adorable:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Theta Alpine, Fidget, Zdenek

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 1.5

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen, Hopkirk, Adorable, Toogeloo, MURDERCAT

[3] Hopkirk:

Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, Isis

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[2] Bell:

Lapsa, shellyc

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

Tayl0r Swift, Theta Alpine

[1] Adorable:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Fidget, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 1.7

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen, Hopkirk, Adorable, Toogeloo, MURDERCAT

[3] Adorable:

Noraa, Theta Alpine, Vaxkiller

[2] Hopkirk:

Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear

[2] shellyc:

VaultDweller, Bell

[2] Bell:

Lapsa, shellyc

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Fidget, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 1.8

[7] Noraa:

UNOwen, Hopkirk, Adorable, Toogeloo, MURDERCAT, Lapsa, Titus

[3] Adorable:

Noraa, Theta Alpine, Vaxkiller

[1] Hopkirk:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] shellyc:

Bell

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Tayl0r Swift

PookyTheMagicalBear

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Fidget, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 1.10

[6] Noraa:

UNOwen, Hopkirk, Adorable, Toogeloo, MURDERCAT, Lapsa

[4] Adorable:

Noraa, Theta Alpine, Vaxkiller, Fidget

[2] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift, Titus

[1] Hopkirk:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] shellyc:

Bell

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift

PookyTheMagicalBear

[4] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 1.17

[6] Toogeloo:

Hopkirk, shellyc, MURDERCAT, Titus, Toogeloo, Theta Alpine

[2] Bell:

Tayl0r Swift, Vaxkiller

[2] Noraa:

UNOwen, Adorable

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell

[2] shellyc:

Fidget, Flea The Magician

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1] Adorable:

Lapsa

[1] Hopkirk:

Lady Lambdadelta

[3] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Noraa

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 1.18

[9] Toogeloo:

Hopkirk, shellyc, MURDERCAT, Titus, Toogeloo, Theta Alpine, MUSHSHAGANA, Lady Lambdadelta, Noraa

[2] Bell:

Tayl0r Swift, Vaxkiller

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell

[2] shellyc:

Fidget, Flea The Magician

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1] Adorable:

Lapsa

[1] Lapsa:

UNOwen

[1] Not Voting:

Zdenek

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 1.20

(FINAL)

[11] Toogeloo:

Hopkirk, MURDERCAT, Titus, Toogeloo, Theta Alpine, MUSHSHAGANA, Lady Lambdadelta, Noraa, UNOwen, shellyc, Bell

HAMMER

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell

[2] Bell:

Tayl0r Swift, Vaxkiller

[2] shellyc:

Fidget, Flea The Magician

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1] Adorable:

Lapsa

[1] Not Voting:

Zdenek

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 2.1

[5] Fredrick A Campbell:

Bell, MUSHSHAGANA, PookyTheMagicalBear, shellyc, Flea The Magician

[2] Noraa:

Titus, Fredrick A Campbell

[1] UNOwen:

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Adorable:

Theta Alpine

[1] Flea The Magician:

Noraa

[7] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MURDERCAT, UNOwen, Adorable, Lady Lambdadelta, Lapsa, Fidget

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-11-06 21:29:24).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 2.3

[6] Fredrick A Campbell:

Bell, MUSHSHAGANA, Flea The Magician, PookyTheMagicalBear, shellyc, UNOwen

[2] Noraa:

Titus, Adorable

[1] Fidget:

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Adorable:

Theta Alpine

[1] shellyc:

Fidget

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

Fredrick A Campbell

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[4] Not Voting:

MURDERCAT, Lady Lambdadelta, Lapsa, Gloria Cleary

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-11-06 21:29:24).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 2.4

[5] Fredrick A Campbell:

Bell, MUSHSHAGANA, Flea The Magician, PookyTheMagicalBear, UNOwen

[2] Noraa:

Titus, Adorable

[2] Tayl0r Swift:

Fredrick A Campbell, shellyc

[1] Fidget:

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Adorable:

Theta Alpine

[1] shellyc:

Fidget

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[4] Not Voting:

MURDERCAT, Lady Lambdadelta, Lapsa, Gloria Cleary

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-11-06 21:29:24).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 2.5

(FINAL)

[9] Fredrick A Campbell:

Bell, MUSHSHAGANA, Flea The Magician, PookyTheMagicalBear, UNOwen, MURDERCAT, Titus, shellyc, Fidget

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

Fredrick A Campbell

[1] Fidget:

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Adorable:

Theta Alpine

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[3] Not Voting:

Lady Lambdadelta, DrippingGoofball, Gloria Cleary

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-11-06 21:29:24).

Joint moderator ISO.

[Titus]

so shelly has been pushing me as scum with fred for a while. and pooky keeps coming in to defend shelly.

If Pooky is scum, this would be good cop bad cop. Rarely are scum so together like that though.

That's my point.

Why would they both obsess on this one player for their theater?

[Titus]

Taylor is a very easy place to park a vote as she generally comes across as kinda scummy

Sometimes LHF are scum.

[Titus]

Pooky versus Noraa is telling. Flipped scum is on Pooky but not Noraa. Yet Zdenek aka Fred peels off at the Noraa wagon taking off. This, and the lack of much of a scum driven counterwagon suggests Noraa town.

There was a counterwagon onto Hopkirk. The only possible scum is Pooky. Given Z (now Fred)'s reaction to the wagons, my initial instinct is that at max one scum per counterwagons if any.

This explains why town couldn't get together on a wagon. Scum didn't have to care day 1.

Day 2 without a counterwagon suggests a hard bus.

Initial conclusion: Find scum in those who didn't care what happened yesterday but were overly invested into Fred.

[Titus]

You're bugging me out this game Titus, you have a scum flip why does it feel like you aren't really searching

You literally just ninjaed my preliminary VCA thoughts. RL has been a bitch, so I haven't been able to keep up as much as I'd like but I am trying. I just feel on the outside looking in because I can't keep up.

I thought it would be better after my move and the other game ended but it's not true.

[Titus]

Fair enough, do you think Shelly meets your criteria?

Possible, but with reservations. She's definitely not excluded from the criteria. I'd want to know why she cared on Toog and why she wasn't further up on the wagon.

It might be possible that fitting the scum archetype onto one player might be too tall an order. I never VCAed a game where everyone is a supersaint.

[Titus]

Taylor wasn't a viable wagon, nor did Shelly ever vote Taylor on any given VC. It's a viable distancing strategy. She can claim she voted Taylor but when push comes to shove, she abandons it. Yet she maintains her bell push over multiple VCs.

Assuming shelly scum, I'd look at who Bell pushed aside from Shelly.

[Titus]

I mean I think if Shelly is scum and one of Pooky/Taylor is scum it is more likely to be Pooky but maybe Shelly hard buddies Pooky and it's taylor scum.

With the dynamic of the suicide being in play, I find it very difficult to sort legit 1 v 1s versus noise. Scum know they never have to implode their target in a 1 v 1 and can get towncred for their partner by pushing for it too. So Pooky v Taylor is a hard spot, regardless of Shelly's alignment. I really wanted Taylor alive at first but with her taking shots at my activity level that kinda feels scummy.

[Titus]

I find it hard to believe that any of those greens are wrong and I also doubt that wagon was all town.

this is so stupid im moving you to null

How is that stupid? It's not proper procedure to color in suspected town names, but he's doing it to check his work. He has two, partially, conflicting thoughts he has to work through.

[Titus]

Just mathematically it is hard to get that much town to vote together

Agreed, but it was a deadline scramble. My thought is that it only happened because Toog volunteered.

[Titus]

If scum is posting in thread and not voting with deadline coming it looks weird

That's true. They could prod dodge and claim not keeping up but that would still look bad.

[Titus]

I agree in general but doubt all 5 scum acted like that. I could be wrong though I'm not betting the game on it

That's the rub. We can say what scum should do, but not all 5 would do it. Some would disagree, some might be mia. Looking at what scum should do is a great way to find the face. Looking in the middle of wagons is where to find sheepy scum. Bla bla bla.

We need counterwagons but we can't really afford them.

If I ever get scrolled with an opportunity to pass, we're doing another rapid lynch day if possible.

[Titus]

I am not saying bet the game on the latecomers to the tooge wagon being town, I'm saying I expect those players to be more likely town than scum -

I find it scummy af you looked at that wagon and came to the conclusion ooh some scum must be on there .

That's not an uncommon conclusion. You're townreading shelly and uno. Now the entirety of the Toog wagon. Just who are you scumreading?

[Titus]

how many times do i have to say i want to kill taylor-scum before you guys believe me

There are other scum. I am coming around on Taylor but still...

[Titus]

@Taylor, why?

[Titus]

Shelly is probably scum. I think this was a heavy bus. I expect scum on the front end of the wagon as this was too easy.

[Titus]

so shelly has been pushing me as scum with fred for a while. and pooky keeps coming in to defend shelly.

Gonna peg Tayl0r as town for this, actually.

Scum promoting scum as town.

[Titus]

Shelly was already planned as today's elimination since Fred’s, so why not FoS a partner?

[Titus]

so shelly has been pushing me as scum with fred for a while. and pooky keeps coming in to defend shelly.

Gonna peg Tayl0r as town for this, actually.

Scum promoting scum as town.

You think scum!Shelley would try to derail Fred wagon onto scum!Tayl0r? Also why is DGB scum as opposed to just wrong if Shelley/Tayl0r are buddies?

She knew it wouldn't work. If you already know you're getting executed, why not distance?

DGB suddenly appears from nowhere to promote Taylor town but not do any solving.

[Titus]

Mmm. Roller derby scum.
:/

I am not even sure what that means.

[Titus]

Means you’re being assertive to get town read but are playing as scum here.

That makes zero sense. I am not widely townread at all. I am also not being nice either.

[Titus]

so shelly has been pushing me as scum with fred for a while. and pooky keeps coming in to defend shelly.

Gonna peg Tayl0r as town for this, actually.

Scum promoting scum as town.

You think scum!Shelley would try to derail Fred wagon onto scum!Tayl0r? Also why is DGB scum as opposed to just wrong if Shelley/Tayl0r are buddies?

She knew it wouldn't work. If you already know you're getting executed, why not distance?

DGB suddenly appears from nowhere to promote Taylor town but not do any solving.

I think it strange that anyone would have Tayl0r as #1 town pre-Shelley flip. I’m also kind’ve getting pinged by the pushes on Titus who like Pooky is pretty obvious town. Even more concerning is anyone who has Noraa as scum here. Noraa was already pretty much a consensus tr even before Fred put her in danger, so in what world does scum!Fred go this much on a limb to hard distance an already consensus tr? That theory makes absolutely no sense.

So you're claiming DGB and Taylor makes sense and DGB's reads don't to be clear?

[Titus]

Can we not have 5 pages while I am at work?

[Titus]

I'll believe it when you vote

This. No reason to believe anything anyone says until they vote.

[Titus]

Ugh meta. Gloria says I am clear based on it. Bell says I am scum. Either one of them must be scum or meta is worthless. I'm in the meta is worthless camp. I don't see scum Gloria hard defending me when I am no use to pocket and I don't see scum Bell hard pushing at Gloria clearing me.

So of course we get back to my initial conclusion.

[Titus]

It's cool.
I can be right for the wrong reasons.
I usually am.

That's Gloria.

[Titus]

It's cool.
I can be right for the wrong reasons.
I usually am.

That's Gloria.

What am I right about for the wrong reasons?

Me being town. You're using meta. That's the wrong reason.

[Titus]

@Gloria, Regarding post 6077. I don't know who you are but I don't usually see players go off on random tangents that don't talk about the issue at hand.

[Titus]

Actually it's not that I disagree. It's just that to me it's a case of reaching too far. There are scenarios where I feel solid about what might have happened or what someone intended, but that just wasn't one of them.
I already mentioned that I'm cautious to an extent. That's why I do all these resets.
My reads just point to exactly Titus, Shellyc, Fred, Taylor, Flea, Fidget. containing scum.

But my comfort level with the people outside of that list that aren't in the town block aren't at the town block level because they never sufficiently proved themselves to be town.
For example if Shelly flips Red I will immediately town block Unowen.

This is awfully sheepy. The question is sheepy town or scum. You tend to be quite sheepy.

[Titus]

*waves hand fancifully* sorry sorry, if you're town I'm being an ass.

She's super mindful of VCA and she hopped on Unowen for what I would call a terrible reason without digging in further.
It was another attempt at justification and her response to me jostling her was to try to look town in a sort of corny dim way that Titus scum tries to emulate, but Town Titus is brighter.

This is pretty fair in a way. I have been a shell of myself lately due to IRL. I do what I can but I feel my play has been lackluster.

[Titus]

Also I think you played really well in the other game we just finished together.

Thank you. There I had a team backing me up, an accurate normal VCA and perfect conditions aside from my move. All I had to do was push, not scumhunt.

Here, I have to scumhunt and its meh.

[Titus]

Gloria, Shelly is scum.

[Titus]

I think she applied to be my defense lawyer at some point

That's my job.

[Titus]

Flea
Pooky
Adorable
Fidget

Flea Town
Pooky Lean town due to Taylor interactions
Adorable Lean scum due to being Noraa’s counterwagon
Fidget Who the fuck knows

[Titus]

I'm headed to sleep. I sure hope scum makes this mistake, because lord knows they're going 1-for-2 this dayphase, easily.

Titus, I want your immediate no-brains-involved gut reactions on the following slots:
Flea
Pooky
Adorable
Fidget

Gloria, MURDERCAT, Noraa, I want your reactions on them too --

BUT, only after Titus has posted

.

Bell, I want specifically your thoughts on Adorable, Tayl0r, DGF. Give it as much or as little thought as you have to offer at the time: I trust your brain to reach good conclusions, I trust the others' guts to reach good conclusions.

I'm going to do what I do regardless, and I don't give a fuck what anyone I didn't ask has to say on the matter of those slots.

I think she applied to be my defense lawyer at some point

That's my job.

@Titus can you please answer this so that I can give my thoughts. Thanks.

Sorry. I was asleep.

[Titus]

I was basically prod dodging because I am not reading shelly wifom and didn't think seeing the same, likely town, people post over and over again would change anything. I guess this is how DS felt in the last game we played together (the large hosted by schadd). Basically, probtown are doing a good job, why get in the way?

[Titus]

@Noraa, It's right above you.

[Titus]

This is why I have given up on keeping up.

[Titus]

Flea
Pooky
Adorable
Fidget

Flea Town
Pooky Lean town due to Taylor interactions
Adorable Lean scum due to being Noraa’s counterwagon
Fidget Who the fuck knows

Wait, I'm a solid town read for someone? o.o

Yup. Shooting from the hip. You can keep up and give non bullshit content. We're doing well, so I suppose you're contributing. Solid meh but Mush asked for first instincts.

[Titus]

Who do you have Flea as a lurker and how can you read Fidget when everything he says is driwned out?

[Titus]

Again, that doesn't answer me Noraa.

[Titus]

Who do you have Flea as a lurker and how can you read Fidget when everything he says is driwned out?

Noraa

[Titus]

Who do you have Flea as a lurker and how can you read Fidget when everything he says is driwned out?

Noraa

How do I read flea as a lurker? What do you expect as an answer? I have no idea how im supposed to explain that and I won't be.
How do I read Fidget? I already replied.

I'm wondering what standard you use as a lurker where Flea would be and fidget isn't. I'm asking you how you read Fidget as town. In other words, I want elaboration.

[Titus]

I wouldn't say I'm hard lurking... more soft lurking.

There's little for me to add to much of this tbh. and when I have challenged or engaged with people they've just kinda sidelined me </3

This is exactly how I feel and I can see the effort anyway.

[Titus]

Fidget is not a lurker. Each post she posts has a large amount of content even tho she only has 100+ posts. Flea on the other hand, has 66 posts each with close to zero content.

I can't find a single post of hers without reading through hundreds of posts I don't have time for.

What's your Gloria read?

[Titus]

ISOs exist

They are completely divorced from context.

[Titus]

Fidget is not a lurker. Each post she posts has a large amount of content even tho she only has 100+ posts. Flea on the other hand, has 66 posts each with close to zero content.

I can't find a single post of hers without reading through hundreds of posts I don't have time for.

What's your Gloria read?

ISOs exist

They are completely divorced from context.

Why are you suddenly so interested in making me a focal point while we’re waiting to see who Shelley gives the scroll to?

I'm not. I'm trying to find a way to sort Fidget. I already sorted you.

[Titus]

Fidget is not a lurker. Each post she posts has a large amount of content even tho she only has 100+ posts. Flea on the other hand, has 66 posts each with close to zero content.

I can't find a single post of hers without reading through hundreds of posts I don't have time for.

What's your Gloria read?

ISOs exist

They are completely divorced from context.

Why are you suddenly so interested in making me a focal point while we’re waiting to see who Shelley gives the scroll to?

I'm not. I'm trying to find a way to sort Fidget. I already sorted you.

How does getting Noraa’s read on me help you to sort Fidget when you’ve already sorted me? Shouldn’t you be asking her about Fidget or ISOing her?

I did ask her about Fidget. I got stonewalled. ISOing Fidget removes the context. So by having her explain her read on your 1 v 1, I might get a roundabout way of reading Fidget. Something to look for. As far as I know, Noraa is the only one TRing Fidget.

P.S. DGB is scum. This is Trials DGB.

[Titus]

Titus-content. reread if you need to but keep up with the times. putting me at the same level of SR as shelly is not reasonable.

I agree. You're town. Shelly is scum. Why on Earth would you think you are the same level?

Rereading is literally impossible. I can't keep up with the thread now and you want me to reread. I'll play as I can. If it doesn't work, I'll get misscrolled and live with it.

[Titus]

In fairness, I'm on EVERYONES list pretty much.

Eugh I'm going to have to effort some more aren't I...

Exactly how I feel. Why is this game only active when I am not around and can't keep up?

[Titus]

In court via zoom, waiting on the bench. Ama.

[Titus]

Thank you. It should go well. Just using every spare second I can to engage until I get called.

[Titus]

So Ama?

[Titus]

What is your current solve Titus?

Why did you think uno was more likely scum than shelly and why isn't it that you wanted to test the waters with uno and, when it seemed like it wasn't working, switched to bussing shelly?

My current solve is Taylor/DGB/Adorable/Plus one infecting the townblock could easily be Uno.

I expect some S v S somewhere.

I didn't have a strong preference for Uno, so it wasn't worth fighting. Either way, we get at least one scum. If I had a strong shelly TR, I fight it. I didn't though.

[Titus]

Who do you think MUSH will shoot Titus? Who should she shoot?

She should shoot within my solve (minus the deep wolf theory as that is vague) but that's a little simplistic. I don't have a strong preference, but gtmh Taylor because she's the deepest.

As for who she will shoot, I'm uncertain. I halfway expect it to be me, which is why I am doing what I can with the limited reading I have done.