Death Curse

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Isis

(Ego)

Will read later

[MURDERCAT]

Ok I still haven't read but I have a question that I want answered by the time I do, should we change how we lim? Like if there is someone who people townlean but we know they have a strong scum game are we more likely to vote them in this setup? I've only played one game with LLD but we were scum together and at the end of the game I remember saying that I wanted to give her my win from the game so that she could earn 2 . If someone like that does end up being town then they can take care of the lim bait we normally would have voted. This is just something I was thinking about during signups.

[MURDERCAT]

Or shelly? I mean ideally we just yeet shelly asap

[MURDERCAT]

The less-scummy-consensus-scum passes the scroll to town. If they didn't pass the scroll to town, I'm plenty happy enough, my plan is fine
The town that got passed to always passes to that person we decided was heavy consensus scum. They have a strong chance of flipping scum and missing the NK

This seems good to me

[MURDERCAT]

Isis are you allowed to tell us how many scum there are?

noraa probly scum for this post

I could see this

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Noraa

because of 104

I'm probably not going to super high effort this game, sorry.

[MURDERCAT]

I thought this setup was cool but by far the most exciting thing to me about this game now is getting to read Hopkirk's posts

[MURDERCAT]

MY FLAREON FRIEND IS TOWN THIS GAME.

PRAISE.

I am excited to play with you as well Lady

[MURDERCAT]

Bell are you coaching Noraa in the scum PT you sly dog you? :3

I'm willing to roll with Bell and Noraa being lockscum based on this just for memes

[MURDERCAT]

Did I say i’m Glad i’m Not scum buddies with Norra yet.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm sorry I was wrong this game is amazing

[MURDERCAT]

im gonna say that this push is counterproductive to sorting noraa, who will be defensive and respond very similarly as both alignments.

This is so flaily though for so early in the game, I don't think town Noraa reacts so strongly and LAMISTs so much

[MURDERCAT]

i think itll be reasonably easy to sort noraa later.

I am curious what you will look for later that you aren't seeing now in these posts. Are you talking like associations and stuff? Because honestly, there are going to be way harder slots to sort with the plist.

[MURDERCAT]

yeah im pretty sure ive seen town noraa react exactly this way. i dont townread noraa, but i dont think this is helpful in sorting noraa and i think itll be reasonably easy to sort noraa later.

I have a limited lifespan in this game. There's no way scum let me live very long. If scum gets cursed, they are gonna curse or vig me or something.

So let's assume I don't trust town to deal with Noraa and want to kill and parse them now. I do not believe Noraa is sufficiently impossible to read from this pressure.

dont like this post at all

I genuinely think that this is true if Lady is town, regardless of Noraa's alignment.

[MURDERCAT]

ok lets sort those slots and loop back to noraa later on in the day. people are wayyyy too confident for page 10. this is not a good push.

I mean, I am using the wagon to sort others as well. I think it will be very useful for that.

[MURDERCAT]

its a trolling semi-defense of Noraa

I think it was just a joke

[MURDERCAT]

I mean I understand that POV

[MURDERCAT]

however since the scum know who each townie are likely to murder, they will generally pass to people who won't murder them.

This is actually such an obvious thing that I didn't think about at all

[MURDERCAT]

Theres a thing called luck. Luck played in big time that game. My partner accidentally nokilled and that ultimately lead to our victory. Without that along with another player's lurking due to rl, you really think I could've won that game?

Noraa not taking credit for a win looks bad to me

[MURDERCAT]

It doesn't fit with what I have experienced of Noraa's personality. Which I understand is kind of jokey, but I haven't seen Noraa act like he contributions weren't valuable

[MURDERCAT]

Can I ask what led you to this? I'm curious because it came up in the thread and it makes me question whether you've read or not.

Pretty sure I explained in the post that I hadn't read but I had been thinking about it in sign ups. I don't think it's that unique of a thought to be honest.

[MURDERCAT]

better than random chance noraa flips scum

Sounds like a great wagon to me tbh

[MURDERCAT]

So literally the 2nd person is always confirmed town and we should treat them as such and work with them to get the best outcomes.

+1, makes sense to me

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa, who would you pass to right now?

[MURDERCAT]

why is murder town btw, entrance doesn't really ping either way

I'm town for immediately jumping on Noraa with no remorse when she flips scum, but also because memes

[MURDERCAT]

Why hasn’t LLD been vigged yet.
I feel like if I were scum I would have sent that message in yesterday.

At this point we are probably treating Noraa as scum so she can just pass to LLD without much cost

[MURDERCAT]

You’re basically dead to me at this point shelly.
This is your scum game.

...

asking for reads = scummy
paranoia = scummy

this is omgus by the way, i've been SR on bell since forever

Kinda agree with bell tbh

[MURDERCAT]

LLD is basically confirmed town to me

This is basically true if Noraa flips scum, LLD can't bus this hard and live

[MURDERCAT]

town!Noraa might be unsure, feel bad, and hedgey on what the flip will be.

I have experienced strong claims from town Noraa

(I see there's a lot of pages still, did we flip her?)

[MURDERCAT]

I'll just as soon burn you to the ground for doing this as I will let that happen.

yes noraa dies today im like, not opposed to that at all but i feel we're wasting too much energy on outed scum

Ehh shelly is pinging me hard with some of these posts

[MURDERCAT]

oh lol
that ruins the tell
nevermind

Lmao

[MURDERCAT]

I think isis is town because I think scum isis doesn't throw the game just because we caught Noraa (which is the only reason I could see those posts happening from scum). And no I'm not talking about the claim, I just think scum isis is capable of being town read on day 1 and isn't actually concerned with being town read here. It's too wifomy though so if that's all I have later I think we still off isis.

[MURDERCAT]

Hopkirk asked about the specifics of what Noraa said in discord. I expect that this is one place where Noraa might be correct - as in she only mentioned Hectic as a mod being exciting or whatever and nothing about setup - but don't think it makes her reaction to the wagon any less scummy so Hopkirk investigating something that looked like a dead end pinged slightly.

hectic is a rather boring mod

don't modkill me

an investigative mindset leans town though, it's not making something out of nothing, it's quite clearly a solving mindset

Meh I got that feeling too from anyone who was asking about discord while Noraa was obviously flailing

[MURDERCAT]

At this point we are probably treating Noraa as scum so she can just pass to LLD without much cost

because it opens up the opportunity for LLD to hit scum on that last pass

Well scum certainly isn't going to let her live longer in the game and they aren't going to dayvig day 1 so I think they just have to accept this.

[MURDERCAT]

murder is your scumdar broken or something

Meh you look better now that I caught up

[MURDERCAT]

Shelly I just feel like you could be bussing here, trying to setup getting something out of it. But I don't feel as strongly as I did 10 pages ago

[MURDERCAT]

Shelly I just feel like you could be bussing here, trying to setup getting something out of it. But I don't feel as strongly as I did 10 pages ago

im capable of both bussing/not bussing as scum and if you look at the risk/reward losing a scum today for (maximum) two town isn't really worth it at all if I was scum

Noraa is going down for sure though

[MURDERCAT]

I can do that but I need to think about it so it will come later

[MURDERCAT]

I want to do Noraa because Noraa has CLAIMED SHE WILL HAND TO ADORABLE.

Yeah I like this

[MURDERCAT]

I expect first-scroll-scum to just be shameless with the pass

me too

[MURDERCAT]

start working with us on who you'll pass the scroll to and why

This is good advice Noraa if you are actually town. You can still play to your wincon as town even if you die, that's exactly what I did in Roses.

[MURDERCAT]

noraa still gets it today

We get the info sooner if we start with Noraa

[MURDERCAT]

what info

we only get the info once she flips
which will be at the same time as everyone else who got the scroll

Who she passes to is absolutely critical info that is indicative of the eventual flip.

[MURDERCAT]

Give me shit to work with so if you DO flip town, it's information for us.

+1

[MURDERCAT]

Town Noraa probably does get this frustrated but I'm not convinced scum Noraa doesn't fake it and we 100% have to flip Noraa at this point regardless. So Noraa if you actually are town please take a step back from the game and come back ready to find scum instead of just yelling at LLD.

[MURDERCAT]

Killing Noraa literally DOES NOT end the conversations we can have. It eliminates the distraction we currently have so that we can work with the information Noraa decides to provide us and work with the second scroll bearer moving forward into the third kill for the flip. I will 100% tell you I am not going back and looking through 30 pages for new content for something else to work with, and if I'm not, I guarantee you there are several others who won't either.

But I may as well be talking to myself.

I'm with you

[MURDERCAT]

Sometimes, as town, you just have to eat a death. This includes a miselim. Even on D1. By fighting it so hard you make yourself look worse Noraa.

I'm 50/50 on whether you are purposefully doing it as scum because you want to avoid real conversations or if you are just playing to live instead of playing the optimal way to win as town.

But we have to eliminate you because there's too many SRs. So if are town please work with us now.

[MURDERCAT]

I can be queen noraa sure pooky. I'm bringing LLD down with me tho. As for why, you will have to ask to get my paragraph

mmk this is scum

[MURDERCAT]

The best timeline here is Noraa town passes to scum LLD and is lauded for the big brain play

[MURDERCAT]

If that happens you are scum too Pooky

[MURDERCAT]

GASP

[MURDERCAT]

The fact that Noraa refuses to interact with me no matter what I say is pinging me hard

[MURDERCAT]

push it through, advance the game. not even a question

[MURDERCAT]

push it through, advance the game. not even a question

It's an interesting dilemma though.

She's marked herself as a player who will ALWAYS shoot a townie, right?

Regardless of her alignment.

so why let her shoot?

Because if you die I don't have to worry about you big braining me and everyone else in the game and we probably still hit 2 scum D1 and win

But ok it's probably better to do it your way

[MURDERCAT]

Oh no but his posts are so fun

I assume this is the "who I would have shot"

[MURDERCAT]

I haven't thought for myself all game, why start now?

VOTE: Hopkirk

I would like an explanation at some point though

[MURDERCAT]

Hopkirk iso looks null to me. I agree in principle with the logic for why that's scummy but I'm also not against hearing Hopkirk out for explanations for the reads.

[MURDERCAT]

you just don't wanna die is all. good plan. it'll literally be like T->T->T

The pressure is off you now Noraa, you can just scum hunt like normal now

[MURDERCAT]

so. the current gamestate is a disaster. LLD, you need to shut up and take a step back. your town leadership is frankly awful and we are about to wind up with three dead townies and nothing to show for it.

Why do you think this Tayl0r? Odds of that are kind of low even with random picks

[MURDERCAT]

What is the % Noraa is just scum who looked doomed and scum wanted to bus asap?

[MURDERCAT]

because we arent picking randomly. we are letting ourselves be led around by the nose.

You think LLD is scum then?

[MURDERCAT]

its impossible to do much scumhunting while the thread is almost exclusively you dictating what everyone should think.

give me the scroll please. please please. let me kill lld. if we dont kill her now town loses 90%.

I think by far the highest % play as town here is to let LLD work on D1 and use whether or not she lives and what the associations are to hunt afterwards.

[MURDERCAT]

MurderCat, what's your take on Taylor here and them trying to shutdown the Hopkirk wagon?

I would be too scared of you as scum to do what tayl0r is doing if you are right about Noraa

I think Tayl0r often stands up for Noraa here as town and might genuinely feel like she (tayl0r) can't operate how she wants too. I don't think Hopkirk/Tayl0r/Noraa/?/? is the solve because Tayl0r probably just let's hopkirk come back and defend.

[MURDERCAT]

murder can you make a full list of town -> scum like I asked uno to did for everyone active in the game

Do I still have to do this Shelly? I think I've made my position on thinking pretty clear

[MURDERCAT]

I know I've just been going with the flow, but here's some of my hot takes. I don't understand all the tip toeing, this isn't like a normal setup where town has to stop talking once we flip someone. There's still scenarios where Noraa flips town and I'd rather have time after that first Noraa "flip" and after we have more info to come to a decision about flips 2 and 3. Also this is like the most fun setup to get miselimed in so I don't really understand why town Noraa would be so upset, but whatever. I think odds of hitting 2 scum day 1 are higher if we flip Noraa scum and get LLD confirmed early than if we try to go backdoor, and I think if we flip 2 scum today we win outright. I don't think town Noraa venges LLD out of spite. If this is town Noraa I want to know sooner rather than later.

[MURDERCAT]

MUSH, I know what town Noraa is like tonally and I can see how people think this is town Noraa based on that, but I'm curious how you are excusing the "townslip" where Noraa pretends not to know number of scum. Like, I'm actually curious I'm not going to try to convince you of scum Noraa. Do you think Noraa really just didn't read the setup post?

Also, another hot take: if Noraa is town, scum Isis felt bad and replaced out?

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa, once again, why fight it? Like, you aren't 3p survivor, you are (according to you) a vengeful townie who could be a hero and flip scum.

[MURDERCAT]

@MUSH, Yeah I mean I didn't ask it with the intention of having my mind changed. I guess my reaction is to like, look it up? Instead of posting that.

For me it doesn't really mean Noraa is lock scum but it does mean that we flip Noraa today because I don't want it in the back of my mind all game

[MURDERCAT]

I don't like dying before I can actually make an impact on the game. I have zero impact if I die day 1 bc of the way I play mafia. Though I don't understand. Why even interact with me if you are just gonna be another stubborn players that's gonna SR me? Plus I'm really disappointed you can't tell this is my town game considering you have straight up PLAYED with town me before

1. There is one completed game where you are town. I don't know your scum game.

2. I have tried to interact with you a lot because if you are town I want you to hit scum with your shot

3. You can literally still talk for like a week even if you get the scroll today and you can shoot a scum.

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa, I'll be more explicit. Given we are flipping you today, I am currently treating you as conf town because if you're scum it doesn't matter. So if you want to play being treated as conf town, now is the time.

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Noraa

For the health of the game I think we should just do this

[MURDERCAT]

LLD is in charge, Noraa had a weird fake looking town slip. She is upset so might actually be town, but we have to just vote her and advance the day. She threatened to shoot LLD despite town reading her which looks a lot like an excuse shoot her as scum. If Noraa is town it's probably Pooky imo. Because LLD and Pooky don't want LLD shot, they are looking at hopkirk first, with the intention of handing Noraa last so that she doesn't get a shot. I kind of think that's dumb, I just want to pass to Noraa first and get the info.

[MURDERCAT]

Mush looks like town, I think fidget looks like town, hot take is that taylor seems like town

[MURDERCAT]

Adorable is another name that has gotten heat

[MURDERCAT]

This is probably scum.

isn't the pro scum play here to just. bus Noraa and get LLD and misdirect LLD

This is what I feel like is happening with Pooky tbh. But this exactly why I want to just do Noraa and work off that. Like I said, let LLD work and sorry through it all later

[MURDERCAT]

murder you're scum reading Pooky?

It's more like there's a lot of worlds where Pooky is scum here, and I can see motivation for Pooky trying to get in early with me and LLD. Like I can easily see how Pooky could be scum, if that makes sense.

[MURDERCAT]

Also, FYI Pooky never gets the scroll today

[MURDERCAT]

As far as scum using LLD, If they were smart, they would steer clear of that

This is part of why I think Tayl0r is town

[MURDERCAT]

Quick question, once someone gets the scroll, I HOPE were still going to all vote (even if its unofficial) for the next person to get it.

It really only seems more advantageous for the scum to not talk and just kill someone.

We will talk but ultimately it is up to the person otherwise scum can potentially have too much influence

[MURDERCAT]

This is really bad phrasing. The last part feels like a lamist mediator talking words and ignoring why Noraa isn't working with us. Like if Noraa is town here in what world does she respond positiviely to 'work with us' and nothing else? In worlds of scum Noraa it doesn't matter sure, but if you care about the say 10% chance town Noraa (guessing your priors here) then this is a spaghetti weak appeal with only limpyness behind it.

I thought it might work because I had a recent game where I baited an NK on N1 and the town PRs went on to play a big role in the win. But I have tried to interact with Noraa in many different places in many different ways.

[MURDERCAT]

Question for anyone: Is there an overwhelming majority of players who think Noraa is scum or is there just an overwhelming majority of players who think LLD is going to make sure Noraa dies soon so aren't putting in too much effort?

nah noraaaaaaaa's obvscum

There's way too much evidence to let her live, I guess it depends on your definition of obv scum? The thing is I think she is genuinely upset and I feel bad, but scum can also be upset for being caught early. I think it's like 70% she is scum.

[MURDERCAT]

Which ones? I think I only really commented on pretty obvtown slots?

lol at this entire post but..

They townread me without a lot of good reasons and I didn't get great vibes.

..I was responding pretty directly to this, as in, I want to give Hopkirk space to respond to you and not just do what we did to Noraa agin.

[MURDERCAT]

And I thought I was late to that particular party.

But like, why is this the game I literally get free town reads from post 2? The game where getting miselimed is fun and I didn't want to have to make hard decisions late in the game

[MURDERCAT]

Can you post a summary of what I need to defend against? Not interested in this from anyone except murdercat, thanks.

I think you are misunderstanding my frame of reference for these posts. I was not SRing you and still am not, I'm just moving with LLD who I think is town and is also better than me. So it's LLD you should be asking. I am not asking you to defend anything, but LLD is.

[MURDERCAT]

For me it's largely pattern recognition and the positions you're choosing to take. On the other hand, maybe you're just really good at dropping town tells as scum. But if so, good job!

You are an alt right? I'm curious if you knew me from 2016. I'd like to think I am good at this, but I don't think I would last that long with this list.

[MURDERCAT]

Gotcha. "Widely townread" is not a position I often find myself in, but when I do I'm never quite sure what the difference is.

[MURDERCAT]

At least, on D1.

[MURDERCAT]

The difference between scum reading you as town and town reading you as town?

Probably

[MURDERCAT]

100% sheeping a TR to pressure someone then? That's reasonable.

I was pretty explicit about it

[MURDERCAT]

Theta you're real keen to see the Nora Flip, there's been enough mechanics talk for you to know 3 flip at once, that in mind, who else would you see flip today?

I thought the general consensus was to keep this info close to chest

[MURDERCAT]

LLD is in charge, Noraa had a weird fake looking town slip. She is upset so might actually be town, but we have to just vote her and advance the day. She threatened to shoot LLD despite town reading her which looks a lot like an excuse shoot her as scum. If Noraa is town it's probably Pooky imo. Because LLD and Pooky don't want LLD shot, they are looking at hopkirk first, with the intention of handing Noraa last so that she doesn't get a shot. I kind of think that's dumb, I just want to pass to Noraa first and get the info.

Mush looks like town, I think fidget looks like town, hot take is that taylor seems like town

Adorable is another name that has gotten heat

[MURDERCAT]

why is a self-proclaimed newbie attacking adorable and effectively daring them to vote themselves
and not attacking hopkirk who had placed a blank vote

I'm not sure I see the preplanned thing, but I do think this is interesting

[MURDERCAT]

we r not allowed to talk about replacements

I know you keep saying this but I read the post on replacements, and it seems to have a lot more to do with players urging others to replace out, replaced out players talking about replacing out, and replaced out players continuing to post. I don't think it is against the rules for us, players in the game post replacement, to discuss it, but feel free to prove me wrong.

[MURDERCAT]

Welcome Titus. You are a brave soul.

[MURDERCAT]

t-s-t is arguably bad but at the first slot being town we have already missed the chance to kill two scum so it is not terrible

I think odds of S>T>S go up if we shoot the sure scum first, get an effectively confirmed townie, and use that info the guide 3rd shot.

[MURDERCAT]

besides if we're this sure about someone being scum

Despite conversation about Noraa, I don't think this is ever true

[MURDERCAT]

Like I get where you and LLD and others are coming from, I just don't have that confidence in our ability to go S>T>S when we start with someone who is maybe scum

[MURDERCAT]

well how about we try it today and see how it works

then we can evaluate how well it worked and decide future strategy accordingly

I'm certainly not going to fight against it

[MURDERCAT]

My question is... why is the Noraa wagon so static without a counterwagon?

Either it's the easiest miselm ever or scum bussed immediately because it went downhill too fast

[MURDERCAT]

Those are usually the options. That's why I asked for the case on Noraa to determine which it was.

I would sum up the case as this:
- Noraa had what looked like a fake town slip early on about the number of scum there are in the game
- When pressured, Noraa went into LAMIST content generation mode
- Noraa talked about passing the scroll to LLD, who is widely town read, out of spite. This looks like a setup to make it seem as if the blatant town kill isn't actually coming from scum to keep some confusion going into the 3rd flip.

[MURDERCAT]

This sounds like Noraa is just an angry emotional player. I'd be run up half my games with this standard. Do you not believe the case?

I'm currently at about 70% chance of Noraa scum. The problem is that Noraa is an emotional player and did have a very strong emotional reaction. But I also respect her scum game enough to believe that she would use that in her favor and she recently said that she fakes townslips in all her scum games.

[MURDERCAT]

because you said in the postgame here:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12236870

that you fake townslips as scum, and

Isis are you allowed to tell us how many scum there are?

looks like a faked townslip.

I don't really believe you didn't read the first page of the setup and dont know how many scum there are.

[MURDERCAT]

In the future, I'd still love to see hurt tags as a secondary vote.

We have been avoiding this to avoid giving scum info about who to kill, as they can choose townies who won't kill them. Whether or not you agree with that approach.

[MURDERCAT]

I want to vote Noraa after that, but I don't want to end the day.

It is worth noting that we keep all the time left on the deadline when we pass a scroll. We just add 2 days to it

[MURDERCAT]

VC on this page.

Once a player is cursed, they will have 2 days to pick a player they'd like to pass the scroll to, using a vote.

My mistake, I was thinking of the dayvig rule

[MURDERCAT]

I want middle position because I don't trust TS to pass it to Noraa - I'm ok with TS being first position because she's made it clear she's 95% on me being scum so she will definitely pass it to me.

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

I don't hate this, these are probably the top three people I don't want to have to try to read

[MURDERCAT]

Are we ok with Taylor > Pooky > LLD if pooky is scum? What % of the time does that happen?

I do think you are more likely to be town based off this pooky, just exploring all angles

[MURDERCAT]

Pretty annoyed at this slot atm. I hate that someone that has legit played a whole game with town!me and knows that im a big baby when it comes to not being stubborn, won't hear me out. He claims he engages me and shit but every time it reads to me like "Just fucking accept you are dead bitch. Now calm your ass and solve the whole game for me if you are town. If you don't, then ur scum" I feel forced to give reads but then you just come around and are like "oop well it doesn't matter cuz ur dead meat anyways" When Mush says it, it's different. You know why? Because mush understands that I fucked up but is unwilling to save me. You, on the other hand are basically pressuring me to give reads, pressuring me to not be antitown when I am mad, and constantly just being like "stop being mad noraa. ur dying anyways" That logic doesn't click with me and constantly just repeating the same damn thing to me isn't gonna get you whatever tf it is that you want from me. All you are gonna do is make me MAD. I'm throwing you in my SRs because I believe that town!you would see the town in me considering I am the exact same stubborn and stupid that I was in Roses. You aren't not seeing it. You know it is true but you know I am an easy lim as scum so you are pushing me hard. Thats the best I can interpret your play this game. I think you are scum.

I'll address you as if you are town.
Noraa it is only out of respect for your scum game that I continue to SR you. Yes, I think that emotionally you seem town to me, that is why I think there is a 30% chance you do flip town. But I also know that you know what you are like as town and I also know that you know that AtE is very effective on me. So I literally can't not vote for you on D1, because there is significant evidence you might flip scum. Your survivalist mindset is also frustrating because I think you would genuinely do that as town, but I think it lowers the town win rate and raises your likelihood of being elimed.

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa if you are actually town, consider instead that reasonable town might think you are just scummy? You seem to mostly town read people who town read you and scum read people who scum read you. If you acknowledge you made mistakes, maybe it's people with info who are finding town reads on you?

[MURDERCAT]

Unlike the rest, you are saying this is exactly my townplay yet you still want me dead.

Once again, I haven't played with scum you so while I think you could play like this is town I have no reason to think you can't do it as scum. And from what I read of your scum game, you are a strong scum player.

[MURDERCAT]

Did you ever do this or nah?

Yes. I'm still in the "don't share too much" mode because I think I'm pretty widely town read and I'm likely a contender for a scroll when scum is hit. So as long as that's true and I've expressed who I want to flip and others agree (Noraa), I'm chilling.

[MURDERCAT]

Hey MURDERCAT, Hectic knows how jealous I am of his adorable cat, no point trying to pretend I'm not, so I'm going to be blunt. If you want to sheep me from now on instead of Lady I've got a slot open.

I have left "blindly sheep a town read mode" unfortunately. I know the only thing I'm posting right now is me trying to engage with Noraa (which I have officially given up on), but I do actually have some deeper thoughts. But it's still my opinion that we are clogging the thread and the time post pass is more valuable.

[MURDERCAT]

You definitely don't get hit before Lady and a couple of other people it's probably best not to mention imo. I'm also very opposed to the idea of not sharing reads to avoid a NK. If we just solid townblock and do a POE today that's much better than the 'stay low until later in the game' when you're honestly more likely to eat a scroll since we'll have lost some of the bigger voices.

I'm in the town block already though, no? I do plan to share my opinions as they become relevant. The thing about Noraa is that there's enough there for me to think she flips town some of the time, I don't think town Noraa spite passes, and LLD could legitimately still be scum. My plan for LLD is "hope she dies early, if so she's town." If scum Noraa passes to town LLD I fully believe we go S>T>S on day 1 and if we go S>T>S on day 1 I believe we are in such a commanding position that we win outright regardless of one town read player being gone. So I don't really see why we are trying to milk this. Worse case scenario is town Noraa passes to town LLD who I think manages to hit scum for sure, so we still go T>T>S which is not that bad because we still deny scum a kill (though they would be happy with LLD being gone off course).

[MURDERCAT]

So we're shooting X-Y-Noraa.

I guess so but I don't see why my logic is bad? Like there is a good chance of T>S>T here.

[MURDERCAT]

I guess so but I don't see why my logic is bad? Like there is a good chance of T>S>T here.

Your logic gets stronger the bigger the chance of Noraa town.

So we're shooting X-Y-Noraa.

I guess so but I don't see why my logic is bad? Like there is a good chance of T>S>T here.

Who do you want to lethal first right now?

Noraa, because of the 30/40% chance she's town

[MURDERCAT]

I thought you were in the Noraa 3rd camp, ok then nevermind I guess.

I was at first, but thought more deeply about it and have been noraa first since then

[MURDERCAT]

If it looks like it's not going that way and there's a wagon I support I'll obviously fall in line, but I still want Noraa first for now.

[MURDERCAT]

Like thoughts on Unowen/Bell/Toogeloo or something. Slots scum doesn't shoot.

Of those three, I doubt the panda most

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa you are clearly trying to say anything you can to save yourself and it looks scummy. There is no reason for town to ever act like you are acting. Unfortunately I think you might still do this as town. I trust the self meta from OOG more than self meta from within this game.

[MURDERCAT]

Out of game

[MURDERCAT]

The point is that you are using examples to try to stay alive, which is exactly what you would do as scum. You have a motivation as scum to try to lead people in a certain direction. Your comment about fake town slips did not have that same bias, it was made in post game where there would be no motivation to lie. This is why self-meta is bad and I know you know it's bad. No one is going to not vote for you due to self-meta in this game. Your AtE on me will not work either.

[MURDERCAT]

Hopkirk has been one of the active participants recently and has dropped the poems ( ).

Nothing in his posts screamed scum to me.

Hope you feel better

[MURDERCAT]

I've already found the perfect straying point. I plan to have a quick deep dive into lady's thoughts and perspectives on relationships. This feels like a great starting point where we can begin to build a better, more cooperative and sustainable working relationship.

[MURDERCAT]

Keep an eye on the cuteness thread hopkirk, I think we can get somewhere with this

[MURDERCAT]

That's actually sketchy?

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah like I don't blame anyone for not reading, but actively reading and not posting looks weird

[MURDERCAT]

can I get someone to explain a read on them?

My sense of panda is that he is doing exactly what is be doing as scum, hence my nervousness

[MURDERCAT]

They* sorry

[MURDERCAT]

Quite honestly, I'm not going to bother to do that until I have a scroll, you are a major target, or we are both in endgame. But I will keep that in mind.

[MURDERCAT]

This is literally gonna be a 600 page game huh

[MURDERCAT]

I believe this is standard lapsa play IIRC from long ago

[MURDERCAT]

I believe this is standard lapsa play IIRC from long ago

So it’s entirely NAI then?

I'm sure others would have a more informed opinion

[MURDERCAT]

I don't remember that being you, but admittedly my memory is positively ass at the best of times. I'll double check, that was only the first couple pages.

It was

[MURDERCAT]

can I get someone to explain a read on them?

My sense of panda is that he is doing exactly what is be doing as scum, hence my nervousness

explain?

Setup talk, complaining about pages and using it as an excuse to be kind of lurky, going with the flow and finding easy votes, etc. Could also be town of course, just pointing it out.

[MURDERCAT]

Setup talk, complaining about pages and using it as an excuse to be kind of lurky, going with the flow and finding easy votes, etc. Could also be town of course, just pointing it out.

Very similar to what I just said in my reads. Take a look. I disagree with the page talk but the rest, I basically agree with.

I will look, but to be honest I haven't fully read your other post yet. But it is on my to-do

[MURDERCAT]

it should take you like 2 minutes max

102 doesn't stand out to me on it's own, but there is maybe something to be said about it being inconsistent with the eventual 315 (as if panda should be giving you more slack based on the logic in 102). I agree with the stance in 897 and the other post about how we should just progress the game by flipping you so I don't really see anything off there. I guess I could see a "you are town" tone to it, but I've done the same thing because it isn't worth interacting with you if you are scum. So, given we are flipping you, it's better to treat you as conf town. I don't know if panda has that same logic, but you could see the same thing from my posts. So yeah I mean I have some feelings about the slot, but I don't think it is anything strong.

[MURDERCAT]

My original post has a typo, these are things I noticed you do that I would have done as scum

[MURDERCAT]

My original post has a typo, these are things I noticed you do that I would have done as scum

So... I do town read you, and that hasn't changed, but take this the right way please.

You know I'm not you, right?

I mean I'm not trying to pass you a scroll right now

[MURDERCAT]

You are mostly posting self meta wifom. Why don't you instead question people? You have some strong town reads who tr you, why are you not engaging them? Like, regardless of your alignment I think you should consider how your actions led to you getting more SRed.

[MURDERCAT]

I mean winning is secondary to having a fun game and emotionally you read super town to me. But like, we still have to flip you because I know you could and would do all this as scum

[MURDERCAT]

I haven't played with scum Noraa but I've meta dived her a few times

Just went through her scum games and found a few posts that I think show her range. She is noticably more emotional this game to be fair, but I think Noraa is self aware enough to know that is a town trait of hers.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12129801

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12232252

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12154255

I chose these three because I think they show things I've seen from her this game: self-meta, discussion of her being upset about being a miselim (down to the phrasing: "going to be salty"), and high effort walls.

[MURDERCAT]

TLDR, I don't think Taylor is salvageable today but we should at least get her some agency rather than handing it to Pooky

You think Tayl0r is that widely scum read?

[MURDERCAT]

ill make the case for you shelly.


Taylor says im 95% scum because I'm not soul reading anyone.

Gloria says I'm scum because I'm using meta on Taylor despite only have 2 completed games with Taylor.

Titus says I'm scum because I don't feel like answering her questions when she hasn't read the game.

Mush is busy writing fan-fiction about me.

Anyone else in the Pooky Fan-Club I'm missing?

Yeah I said you are scum for for egging LLD on if Noraa flips town even though I did the same thing

Actually though I am not sure you are scum even if a Noraa town flip happens, just somewhat suspicious

[MURDERCAT]

you are getting better at this pocketing thing


brw the reason I am unconvinced by your townspew is because I have a lot more respect for your play than anybody else here.

Is this RE Titus? Because I agree FWIW

[MURDERCAT]

Oh that's towards Noraa. I agree with that too

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat input on who is probably the most strongly positioned player currently active too, maybe? I'm cooking something.

What do you mean by strongly positioned exactly?

[MURDERCAT]

my answer below:

Spoiler:

Murdercat is the Jar Jar Binks of our Star Wars story

since it is hidden behind spoilers - it's up to you whether you click it and thus I am really leaving you in control :3

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat you don't like Jar Jar?

I mean even besides the racism stuff the character was just awful

[MURDERCAT]

How do you get a joint iso a la the one in the VCs? I feel like I used to know how to do that but I've forgotten.

[MURDERCAT]

Oh I'm dumb nevermind

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat input on who is probably the most strongly positioned player currently active too, maybe? I'm cooking something.

What do you mean by strongly positioned exactly?

Sorry for the delay.

Town leader figures, obvtown showing strong solving mindsets, that sort of thing -- the player currently active who town never, ever gives the scroll. But specifically from your perspective. Not just your strongest townread, but the currently active (like, "significant chunk of posting in the past 24 hours") player you think is everyone's strongest townread.

"None" is an okay answer but I'd prefer it if you reached a little bit for a name too.

I believe LLD is the consensus answer here if you count her as active. Other than that I think it is probably you? Or maybe even me, though I hope not because I kind of just wanted to show up and shoot scum. I'm also not sure how active I am

As for my personal assessment I'd give it to LLD before you actually, though that is partly because I am aware how deadly LLD is as scum. It's why the possibility of scum Noraa passing to town LLD doesn't really phase me.

Hopefully that's a good enough answer?

[MURDERCAT]

I want to know who taylor passes the scroll too if we go pooky > taylor > ?

But I know I shouldn't ask.

VOTE: Pooky

If you are scum you will to hard to read, if you are town I trust you with the scroll.

[MURDERCAT]

Pooky you can't ask me to care that much about the game while you spam the thread tbh

[MURDERCAT]

I feel kind of like a better player could have probably solved the game by now given everyone's positioning and reads.

Imagine trying to effort in this game lolol

[MURDERCAT]

Guess not

I thought you wanted to 1v1 taylor anyway?

[MURDERCAT]

I think you are scum if Noraa is town. I also said I wanted to do Noraa first but that's not happening.

[MURDERCAT]

I think that's dumb but it doesn't make titus scum

[MURDERCAT]

Plz don't say two different things at two different times.
While acting emotionally the same.

This

[MURDERCAT]

Plz don't say two different things at two different times.
While acting emotionally the same.

This

ok you explain it then

You say you want to 1v1 taylor, so let's do it? If we kill a scum a day we win so I don't think the slots matter as much as some seem to think.

[MURDERCAT]

they think I hard-bussed my teammate noraa in order to setup Taylor->Pooky->Noraa so we could lose 2 scum right away on first pass.

This makes no sense and isn't true

[MURDERCAT]

This makes no sense and isn't true

it's literally what Titus said and you decided to just nod your head and vote me with her so it kinda is buddy.

No Titus wants you first, obviously if you are scum with Noraa you never pass there.

[MURDERCAT]

they think I hard-bussed my teammate noraa in order to setup Taylor->Pooky->Noraa so we could lose 2 scum right away on first pass.

This makes no sense and isn't true

Do you think Noraa is town then

There’s also no guarantee Taylor passes to Noraa if they’re scumbuddies

Taylor never passes to Noraa. I am obviously compromising so idk why both of you are on my case about it

[MURDERCAT]

Pooky I already said I think that you and Noraa are TvS

[MURDERCAT]

Like the fact that you are just misreping me *to me* when I am apparently town to you just makes me SR you and TR Noraa more

[MURDERCAT]

oh so now it's Pooky scum who set up Noraa T?

That's literally what I've said the whole time yeah. And I've also said I want to do Noraa first which isn't happening

[MURDERCAT]

oh so Pooky is S

Noraa is T

but you want to do Noraa first.

wowwowow

Yeah I'm compromising, what part of this is surprising? All my posts say the same thing.

[MURDERCAT]

So your new theory is.

Once again, this isn't what I want to do. I am compromising because deadline is getting close. I think there is one scum in you, taylor, Noraa.

Explain this to me, why does town ever not want the scroll in slot 1 or 2? If we hit 1 scum a day we win. So just hit the scum with your shot and you did your part. Do you not trust yourself to hit scum?

[MURDERCAT]

if town gets the scroll in slot 1 you can't eliminate 2 scum its like you havent even done the most basic thought about this game

This is a nice to have, not a requirement to win. Especially on D1

[MURDERCAT]

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35)

What are we doing crew?

[MURDERCAT]

Pooky/Shelly/Toogeloo/Vaxkiller/Lapsa

This is the scumteam, no questions please

[MURDERCAT]

Lol from your POV there's for sure 2 wrong because of how hard you are TRing pooky

[MURDERCAT]

Idk feeling pretty good about it actually

[MURDERCAT]

Do you think scum!me hard WKs scum!pooky to save them. I'd describe myself as preferring bussing

is this SR lurkers and people who WK each other or something.

No further questions

[MURDERCAT]

read "likelihood"

But seriously, I had a vision sheep me and win

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: toogoloo

[MURDERCAT]

Not on the scum team, so town

[MURDERCAT]

Believe in me

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Toogeloo

Whya re we voting toogs?

this is also a scum claim btw

[MURDERCAT]

Pooky/Shelly/Toogeloo/Vaxkiller/Lapsa

This is the scumteam, no questions please

[MURDERCAT]

Towncred, they decided Noraa isn't happening and the other option is Pooky. Panda is less active so they are the better bear to yeet. Shelly is doing it too.

[MURDERCAT]

Just based on vax alone, this obvious distancing followed by that vote is clear.

Spoiler: vax

I'll read up more in a bit.... I want to look into pookiebear. Quick look at vote counts (altho few) it seems as the 1 band wagon was going away, pookie was quick to jump on another with LLD.

This is probably scum.

isn't the pro scum play here to just. bus Noraa and get LLD and misdirect LLD

Im with Hopkirk, that was kinda scummy.

As far as scum using LLD, If they were smart, they would steer clear of that, but who says the scaum are smart? I guess it could go either way.

Sometimes I talk myself out of a thought.
sigh

VOTE: adorable

I think Isis had some really obvious buddying as well, in addition to her replace out after scum claiming which I think also tells a story

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa, Hopkirk, please you are both town, let's just flip panda (that's "toogs" btw vax) and then they probably hand the scroll to me and I hit scum number 2. Then you sheep my list until it's proven wrong, which it won't be.

[MURDERCAT]

when and why am I suddenly town? you were always like Noraa is town but I wanna kill her and in a post I made yesterday, I pointed it out and suddenly you just directly say I'm town. I really don't understand. If you are town, why aren't you obvtowning like you always do? I never found you too difficult to read in Roses tho I did suspect you of pocketing multiple times but really I was like 99% convinced you were town. Her I absolutely feel like I'm only like ... idk lel like 51% convinced

I wanted you flipped because it would help me solve, but I solved the game so there's no reason to bother anymore.

[MURDERCAT]

Ok I will claim. I am a mod-aligned 1-shot soulreader. Once per game, when Hectic is tired of doing vote counts, the alignments of all players are revealed to me in a vision. I win if the game ends within 24 hours of my vision.

[MURDERCAT]

(@Noraa, this is a joke)

[MURDERCAT]

Panda is Toogeloo

[MURDERCAT]

Hopkirk and kinda me

[MURDERCAT]

That's why it probably comes from scum tbh, all wifom

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa there is no chance you get hit in 2nd slot btw

[MURDERCAT]

I'm talking about the self vote

[MURDERCAT]

If panda is scum, they shoot an obv town. If panda is town they shoot a scum lean with the intention of hitting your 3rd if the 2nd shot is a miss.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm going to be distracted across all games. Landlord just gave me 30 days notice.

That sucks, sorry Titus

[MURDERCAT]

@LLD, don't worry I did it

[MURDERCAT]

LLD thinks she gets shot by Noraa even if Noraa is town

[MURDERCAT]

Hi taylor welcome to the thread, we are yeeting the panda today

[MURDERCAT]

You can help too pooky

[MURDERCAT]

i would kind of expect a town who is wagoned to be like tooge- just say sure whatever gimme the scroll so i can shoot somebody and get this lol thing over with.

I agree with this here.

Which is exactly why scum would do it to try to kill momentum on the wagon

[MURDERCAT]

Hopkirk isn't happening LLD, come join us over here.

[MURDERCAT]

but toog was on hiatus so there's no way he knew what was going on right? I mean he could've lied about it but like ... :/

(they)

? I'm not sure I know what you mean, they voted after a number of other votes.

[MURDERCAT]

lol

Come on, you are both town, let's do panda