Death Curse

[Adorable]

I don't understand why Noraa is getting defensive here in this type of setup. Noraa if you were the first to be given the scroll wouldn't you give it to your scum read?

Taylor asking do scum have a daytalk I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not.

[Adorable]

VOTE: Noraa

I'm busy at the moment and I'm multitasking. Noraa getting defensive is sus and it looks like she dug herself a hole here. Noraa votes me wanting me to have the scroll and I would most likely give it to her.

[Adorable]

Noraa, your play makes no sense. You made a readlist and put Shelly, Vaultdweller, and Hopkirk as scum but you didn't vote them and instead you vote me for not voting and same thing can be said about you for not voting those 3 you listed earlier as scum. I don't mind getting the scroll since I've been busy lately and won't be able to put much effort.

[Adorable]

I have read 20 pages since from where I last left off and I still haven't fully caught up. I'm still scum reading Noraa and I'm also scum reading Unowen because once when Noraa started to get defensive and all those votes piled up on her, Unowen says the wagon on Noraa looks promising and then randomly shaded me about my vote on Noraa which looked sus.

[Adorable]

Oh this will be fun.

I like Mushy's tone, and that coupled with reports he could not have this kind of performance as scum puts him down as town for me. I like the way he's gone about defending Norra better than tayl0r did, but I may be getting a little confirm biased since I think in general Mush looks better than tayl0r.

I know I've just been going with the flow, but here's some of my hot takes. I don't understand all the tip toeing, this isn't like a normal setup where town has to stop talking once we flip someone. There's still scenarios where Noraa flips town and I'd rather have time after that first Noraa "flip" and after we have more info to come to a decision about flips 2 and 3. Also this is like the most fun setup to get miselimed in so I don't really understand why town Noraa would be so upset, but whatever. I think odds of hitting 2 scum day 1 are higher if we flip Noraa scum and get LLD confirmed early than if we try to go backdoor, and I think if we flip 2 scum today we win outright. I don't think town Noraa venges LLD out of spite. If this is town Noraa I want to know sooner rather than later.

I think the attitude I'm going to take is "I will work with Noraa, but under the pretense she is dying today." So a win either way. I agree that town!Noraa probably doesn't venge LLD out of spite, or at least I'd certainly hope so.

I have read 20 pages since from where I last left off and I still haven't fully caught up. I'm still scum reading Noraa and I'm also scum reading Unowen because once when Noraa started to get defensive and all those votes piled up on her, Unowen says the wagon on Noraa looks promising and then randomly shaded me about my vote on Noraa which looked sus.

--->

Ah yes, I knew that my vote against Noraa would lead to good things.
The wagon looks promising, Noraa's reaction to the pressure has indeed been flaily.
Adorable's vote was not great.

I do not find this post scummy if you assume Noraa to be scum. Are you saying one of the two is scum, or that they are scum together for this?

I'm scum reading both Noraa and Unowen. Unowen said Noraa's wagon looked promising and then randomly mentions my vote which looked like he knows something about Noraa's alignment. Sometimes scum will link a scum buddy to a town player and this was the vibe I was getting from Unowen.

[Adorable]

If we are not doing Noraa first then I would lean more on Unowen is scum which was mentioned earlier. And also I wanted to add on #101 what Theta said are my thoughts exactly. On #680 it looked like Isis also had the same thoughts as me and Theta which makes me think Isis is also probably town with Theta. On #708 Unowen said Isis is suspicious and I would have assumed town Unowen would have picked up on what Theta was saying on #101 and would have also assumed Isis also picked up on this too and would have leaned town on Isis. This makes me think scum did not know town were asked to confirm that scum had daytalk.

I also saw somewhere that doing this t>s>t is bad and I'm assuming town would have to pass the scroll to a town read if the first scroll is handed to a town player.

[Adorable]

254 this feels like it was premeditated
i mean seriously it feels like this exchange between noraa and adorable was planned out ahead of time
why is a self-proclaimed newbie attacking adorable and effectively daring them to vote themselves
and not attacking hopkirk who had placed a blank vote
or unowen who had an rvs vote

Yes exactly. Noraa is not a fool, if she fears that she has been caught and is 100% going down then I believe her instinct would be to perform some sort of distancing with one of her partners. The highlighting of the Adorable post was pretty strong considering the context of Noraa getting swarmed that was going on. "Theres so many questions that I get when I see this post that I am definitely SRing you for it. I think I'd actually like to place my vote here bc I want to put some pressure on you." sounds like a very calculated statement, not naturally worded at all. Noraa later follows up with declaring she would give the scroll to Adorable too. However at no point does Noraa reach out to other players to support the Adorable vote, which I think she would if town and convinced she had identified a clearly scummy player hopping on the wagon. That she has this reaction to Adorable but is apparently not alarmed about the way I have lazily sat on her wagon (unlike both shelly and taylor) has further suggested to me that something is up.

On Adorable, she is busy and it is not clear that she has completely caught up so perhaps there will be better information later. But the vote was awkward as anything, independent of Noraa's alignment. Noraa is right that the whole "I don't understand why Noraa is defensive?" was a scummy question to ask. The implication is clear but instead of just stating a suspicion and acting on it there is a smoke screen of questioning to build up to the vote. Then immediately in 277 the facade drops, Adorable thinks Noraa is sus and declares she would give the scroll to Noraa. This looks like scum attempting to find their way onto a wagon.

I saw you say Noraa is scum and you also put me as scum. So from what you are saying it looked like you are accusing me for bussing Noraa. On your last sentence here you made I'm interpreting it as if it looks like you are town reading Noraa and you are saying scum is hopping on the town wagon. So which is it now?

[Adorable]

hopkirk
almost the entirety of my scum lean on you is that you made a blank vote on a popular wagon
with slight influences from faking a post restriction and the way you agreed with another players reads without elaboration

and honestly the more i thought about the blank vote the less i wanted to kill you because it simply did not make sense for scum to behave that way if noraa is scum
but i am also operating under the assumption that noraa could be town in which case that would be a valid scum lean

so let me just say that i do not think you and noraa are scum together
my scum lean on you is conditional on noraa being town

The 'I am willing to kill them' really doesn't line up with what came before it or from this imo if it's literally 'they made a blank post' and you thought all of the other stuff was NAI? Are you using 'kill' in a really weak sense, or do you not really care who's first lethaled here? I really don't get your point of view here since as far as I can tell if you're town that's happy to vote me for how I interacted with the wagon then I'd expect to see you looking at the early wagon and potential bussing/avoidance a lot more and I really don't get that from you yet.

i mean i have shifted my vote to adorable twice now because their vote on noraa reads like either a bus or advancing an easy mislynch
also
i specifically said that i would hammer you
it would take near majority of other players voting you for me to actually join in
i was willing to kill you because i believed you to have a better then random chance of being scum then town
but i tried to make it clear that i did not really want your wagon and that other people were much more likely to be scum in my opinion

Noraa got defensive and her vote on me looked scum agenda which looked like she tried to shift the votes off of her and tried to redirect the votes on town and in this setup I would expect scum would want to avoid being given the scroll. Noraa voted me first and why would scum Noraa try to push an elimination on a scum buddy when their goal is to eliminate town?

[Adorable]

I saw on Noraa's recent reads list she put me as newbtown and I find this strange she still leaves her vote on me.

@Theta You never responded to #1658 and your theory looks really weird. shelly said on #347 Noraa hates bussing.

[Adorable]

@Noraa There are some players who are suspecting us as scum buddies and if you really are town, then this makes me think scum are the ones who are trying to make it look like we are scum buddies when we are not. UNOwen and Fidget are the players that come up from the top of my head.

[Adorable]

I saw Hopkirk's list and I also think there is scum somewhere in this list and I haven't gotten a town read on any of those players on this list. Toogeloo's recent posts looks towny.

Bell
Unowen
Flea
Lapsa
Toogeloo
Fidget

[Adorable]

These are the players I have been town reading.

MURDERCAT
LL
Hopkirk
Theta
Shelly
Taylor

[Adorable]

These are the players I have been town reading.

MURDERCAT
LL
Hopkirk
Theta
Shelly
Taylor

who is LL? talk to me about hopkirk theta and shelly?

LL is Lady Lambdadelta. Hopkirk's play looks way too solvy and I find this hard to imagine this play comes from scum. His joke posts is funny and the play reminds me of town Hectic who also plays like that. Theta's post on #101 were pretty much the same thoughts as mine but then when she made #1552, this gave me second thoughts because I did not notice this on page 1 and I was not paying attention at the time. I will have to iso Theta again later. We have had players scum reading me and Hopkirk and then shelly comes and screams that we are town disagreeing on what the other players are saying about us. I find this hard to believe scum shelly would want to white knight me and Hopkirk when scum shelly could have easily continued to let the players scum read me and Hopkirk since that would give scum shelly room for more mislynch options.

[Adorable]

Vaxkiller
Lapsa
Noraa
Fidget
UNOwen

[Adorable]

Vaxkiller
Lapsa
Noraa
Fidget
UNOwen

This reads list does not line up with what you had previously said for a VERY long time. Perhaps my town pass was given too easily. I retract it.

cuz literally every1 knows i will flip green except for murdercat, mushy and titus

I'm not here to win a popularity contest i'm here to kill bad guys

well i see a slight contradiction here, but it might not be an AI one.

You keep saying stuff like that ... to the point that I'm a bit worried. Town!Taylor is normally so much more confident....

Vaxkiller's play makes no sense. Earlier he randomly votes me and then says Bell is shading but still leaves his vote on me. On #2509 Vaxkiller said he's glad he voted you but he never voted you and he lied. Lapsa's vote switch on me when a wagon started to build on Toogeloo during my absence looked sus.

[Adorable]

Vaxkiller
Lapsa
Noraa
Fidget
UNOwen

This reads list does not line up with what you had previously said for a VERY long time. Perhaps my town pass was given too easily. I retract it.

Oo I wanna hear more about this. Actually, Adorable has only 15 posts, I think I can handle it.

She scumreads Noraa for A.) reasons we've been through obviously and B.) for voting her + leaving her vote on her even after reading her as newbtown
She scumreads UNOwen for suspecting her when she voted Noraa, thinking he was setting up Adorable as a partner to scum!Noraa
Amazingly enough she ALSO scumreads Vaxkiller for voting her and leaving their vote on her.
And finally, she scumreads Lapsa for switching his vote to her.
Perhaps I should add that I suspect her and am also on the list?

She's awfully cognizant and hostile towards those suspecting her, although I am not familiar enough with Adorable to know if she would do that as town too. The main thing I know about Adorable is that she town-slipped in every game I have ever played with her where she was town, lol

On your last paragraph you said I town slipped in every game I have played with you and what you said is a lie because I have never played any games with you. Hopkirk asked you if you're an alt and you said no. I have around 13-15 completed games and I have only town slipped in 2 games. On your list of 5 players you named I did not like how you put 2 of my town reads on your list and you also put me on your list. What were the games you have played with me before? I have never played with anyone before by the name of Fidget.

Actually

Vaxkiller's play makes no sense. Earlier he randomly votes me and then says Bell is shading but still leaves his vote on me. On #2509 Vaxkiller said he's glad he voted you but he never voted you and he lied. Lapsa's vote switch on me when a wagon started to build on Toogeloo during my absence looked sus.

Do you no longer think Isis town reading Theta was a town-leaning thing to do?

I started to get sus of Vaxkiller's play to the point when I had to reread Isis iso. I originally thought #680 was the first time Isis town read Theta because of post #101 and when I reread through Isis iso, I did not remember Isis putting a town read on Theta on #449 and I wasn't able to see why was that post towny.

@Noraa For #3482 I still haven't fully changed my read on you and I am not able to understand your play. When the game started you tried to push me, later on you change your read on me and call me newbtown and put Fidget, Shelly, and Toogeroo on your scum reads and since you put these 3 players on your scum reads, then why did you not try to push them?

[Adorable]

^the above post makes me feel you aren't a noob but you gave off so many noob vibes early on.
Also you are 10/10 lurking confirmed. You rarely post and each time you do the bare bare minimum of just HEY you pinged me in the server so I'll reply.
I have pushed Fidget the most. Toog changed to a TR. Shelly is still scummy but I dont wanna deal with her atm. I have other SRs as well but anyways, you are still a TR but I fail to understand why you do a lot of things you do.

Why did you not vote Fidget after unvoting me?

[Adorable]

@Fidget I have never played with anyone by the name of Fidget. Hopkirk asked you if you're an alt and you said no. I have now figured out you are an alt and I now know who your main is. You said you iso me and you should have known #2021 was the first time I started to get sus of you and this happened before the scroll was passed to Toogeloo. #3457 was one of your newest posts you made and it looked like you are scum reading me because you are agreeing with other players and you don't find yourself agreeing with me. You should know that town are the ones who develop their own reads while scum will agree with other players. I also did not like how you did not do a follow up to your question when you first asked me a question and you didn't even engage more with me afterwards.

I don't like talking about meta and completed games and the game you mentioned where I hard 1vs1 with someone as scum was because 3 vt claims were the ones who were getting suspected the most and I was one of those players who was in the 3 vt claims. You also mentioned you don't remember what were my reads in my town games with you and my reads were omgus in my town games with you.

[Adorable]

I guess my town read on shelly was not all that convincing to the players who leaned scum on her. I only know one scum player on this site who white knights town players and other than that, I normally don't believe in scum white knighting. scum shelly white knighting me and Hopkirk is something I don't see her as scum doing which makes me think she is town.

[Adorable]

I think Vaxkiller is scum. Vax said he wants to keep Hopkirk around and then he changes his mind and says he wants to keep Hopkirk in the dead thread with him. So wait a minute, did Vaxkiller lean town on Hopkirk when he made this post on wanting to keep Hopkirk around?

[Adorable]

Noraa's play has been confusing me and that 180 she did earlier on me when Toogeloo was holding the scroll was sus. Her post on #3942 about Hopkirk also looked like scum shading him. So from what I gathered, scum Noraa likes to put pressure on players and she has been doing that in this game and town Noraa doesn't put pressure.

VOTE: Noraa

[Adorable]

Could someone tell me why they are townreading Noraa or Tayl0r Swift? I am absolutely not.

Noraa’s emotional range is much greater here than in any of her scumgames + she’s making detailed, nuanced readslists. She didn’t do that in ANY of her scumgames and here, she’s doing that like it’s going out of style almost.

So, either Noraa’s suddenly switched up her scum meta or she’s town. The readslist also reads super genuine and not coached, so I’m obviously a lot more confident on Noraa!town than Tayl0r, especially after skimming The Trials but I still think it could be playstyle.

I’ve already explained Tayl0r but she should definitely be able to give reasons for that read, I did.

I have had some bad experience with meta and most of the time I don't focus on meta anymore. In my last micro game I played someone was getting town read for meta and that player turned out to be scum. I was getting scum read for meta and I was town. I have said earlier on why I scum read Noraa. That read list Noraa made when she put me as newbtown gave me a bit of a pause and I started wondering maybe Noraa could be town and if she was scum, I would have assumed she would continue on trying to get me eliminated and then later she did a 180 on me. On my first completed scum game I also made a read list and I didn't get coached. Noraa's play really has been confusing me.

[Adorable]

This is what Hopkirk said below for his latest reads.

Don't lethal these people
Shelly
LAdy
Mush
MURDERCAT
Adorable
Gloria

I'd avoid lethaling but my read is weaker
PookyTheMagicalBear
Tayl0r Swift

Looks like don't lethal means Hopkirk did not want the scroll to be passed to specific players and is town reading the players on the don't lethal list. Zdenek/Frederick was not on the list of don't lethal.

[Adorable]

Noraa.
Get on the wagon.

why tho? I mean Murder ..... didnt have the hottest solve yesterday but I mean so? I believe he brought up a valid point. The SRs from Fred on me are hot garbage. I agree with that. They seem opportunistic. I agree with that as well. Nothing else he has said has made him look anything but bad. I agree. He bad. He scummy. So?

From what I could tell in his other games, he's a juicy LHF and everyone jumped on him too fast. Legit I saw that wagon building up and I was like "Oh god Noraa#2 is charging in"

Are you saying here you read Fred as a scummy town? Earlier you said you would be down for a Fred wagon saying he is shady and did your read on him change?

I have a headache the size of a small island nation.

Is this going to be taylor's magnum opus? *Checks role Pm* Nope.

@Fidget, @Gloria, Strongest scum read?

@gloria I think I addressed Fred's tone.

@Shellyc: Shelving discussion, need to secure scum death and then I can fidget around. Might hurt teamwork but we'll see.

@Theta, you can't?

its possible that im backwards on you and pooky. i do think one of you is scum but if i really am backwards then im still, perhaps more, confident in titus, fidget, and uno. i think if you and pooky are both town then the last two scum are murdercat and shelly.

I’m going to address other posts but you may join the Toog and MC club for having some bad reads here, primarily Titus and MC.

I think MC is very likely town, because he’s clearly sorting and that 180 on Noraa and reconsidering of LLD, don’t make a lot of sense coming from scim, and based off Titus’ clearly not having any agenda, tone and meta, I’d probably be willing to eat LLD’s hat if she’s scum here. I don’t know about Fidget or Uno. When I clicked Titus’ link and ISO’d you, I also did a brief skim of other players in this game. What I found was that Adorable clearly doesn’t know Noraa’s meta because she definitely did put pressure on players in that game. Shelley and especially Fidget seem kind of different here but I don’t know if that’s AI.

That's what I said earlier and Noraa is putting pressure in this game. I did not read her completed games and I only quickly skimmed 2 of her scum games and 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like. In 2 of her scum games I quickly skimmed she used by the lines of, "I would like to put pressure or I will put some pressure on you." When I quickly skimmed through 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like, she did not mention the word pressure when she placed her votes.

[Adorable]

Overall I find myself wanting to shoot Adorable a little more, still not decided on Flea, and I really don't want to kill Noraa.

You scumread Adorable too? Please tell me why.

I should make a formal post on Adorable. I'm worried I will not be able to quantify my feelings well, but she feels distinctly weird to me. Scummy even. Augh.

scum!fidget is saying that fred is town and pooky is scum.

What huh?

I don't see how are my posts weird. I don't like how you hardly ever engaged with me and instead you just talk about me and you have also been agreeing with other players and most often scum are the ones who agree with players. Do you really think scum Adorable would quickly skim someone's completed games to get a better idea how the player plays as scum and town? We probably don't fit well in this game together because we think differently of the game on a fundamental level.

[Adorable]

@Fidget I'm not liking your approach in this game towards me. I noticed that every single post I have made on this round, you comment about my posts but you don't even interact with me. Out of all the players in this game, I have interacted with Noraa the most and of course I would interact more with a player I scum read since it can help me better if I am going in the right direction or not.

[Adorable]

@Fidget I noticed you have been making a town core which is making me wary scum are forming a town core for each other and who wants to make friends with town, you have also been saying I am weird and you can't just only say that because that can be a good excuse for scum to call a player weird and your lack of engagement with me which is bothering me.

When I look at your town reads these are the players you put as town.

Bell
Mush
Pooky
Noraa
MurderCat
LL
Taylor
Gloria

List of players you put as poe

Fred
shelly
Titus
Adorable
Theta
Lapsa
Flea
UNOwen

Fred said he is town and if I'm to look at your pov removing me on the list then the 5 team from your pov would be somewhere in

shelly
Titus
Theta
Lapsa
Flea
UNOwen

You look a bit confident on your reads and the 6 players I listed above, which player would you remove and put on the town list?

[Adorable]

Now I am convinced Adorable is scum.

HURT: Adorable

Apologies if you are indeed town Fred, I didn't intend for that to be the hammer although I doubt I'd have moved my vote.

@Fidget I noticed you have been making a town core which is making me wary scum are forming a town core for each other and who wants to make friends with town, you have also been saying I am weird and you can't just only say that because that can be a good excuse for scum to call a player weird and your lack of engagement with me which is bothering me.

I'm the only player with a town core that bothers you? Don't think that's a trait exclusive to me.

I'm reading you as off or weird, yes. You see it as a lazy scumread (as scum might use), so lemme take the opportunity to actually quote what I find weird now and try to figure it out.

Spoiler:

I don't understand why Noraa is getting defensive here in this type of setup. Noraa if you were the first to be given the scroll wouldn't you give it to your scum read?

Taylor asking do scum have a daytalk I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not.

VOTE: Noraa

I'm busy at the moment and I'm multitasking. Noraa getting defensive is sus and it looks like she dug herself a hole here. Noraa votes me wanting me to have the scroll and I would most likely give it to her.

Noraa, your play makes no sense. You made a readlist and put Shelly, Vaultdweller, and Hopkirk as scum but you didn't vote them and instead you vote me for not voting and same thing can be said about you for not voting those 3 you listed earlier as scum. I don't mind getting the scroll since I've been busy lately and won't be able to put much effort.

I have read 20 pages since from where I last left off and I still haven't fully caught up. I'm still scum reading Noraa and I'm also scum reading Unowen because once when Noraa started to get defensive and all those votes piled up on her, Unowen says the wagon on Noraa looks promising and then randomly shaded me about my vote on Noraa which looked sus.

Early play is just "Noraa, Noraa, Noraa" which is fine I guess since I focused on her too.

You add in an extra scumread on UNOwen just because he suspected your vote on Noraa. I thought it looked like awkward bussing a tad bit especially with Noraa voting you back. That doesn't matter since I don't scumread Noraa now, though.

I saw on Noraa's recent reads list she put me as newbtown and I find this strange she still leaves her vote on me.

@Theta You never responded to #1658 and your theory looks really weird. shelly said on #347 Noraa hates bussing.

There's a pattern where your reads heavily tend to revolve around people voting you, or at the very least suspecting you.

Noraa's play has been confusing me and that 180 she did earlier on me when Toogeloo was holding the scroll was sus. Her post on #3942 about Hopkirk also looked like scum shading him. So from what I gathered, scum Noraa likes to put pressure on players and she has been doing that in this game and town Noraa doesn't put pressure.

VOTE: Noraa

This doesn't make any sense. I see this comes as a hop-on to a Noraa CW to Frederick's main wagon, which looks bad if I believe Fred to be red.

Town!Noraa doesn't put pressure. I don't get it. You believe that town!Noraa doesn't vote? That can't be it, because Noraa voted just a little ways back from this post. So I guess this read just makes no sense.

I have had some bad experience with meta and most of the time I don't focus on meta anymore. In my last micro game I played someone was getting town read for meta and that player turned out to be scum. I was getting scum read for meta and I was town. I have said earlier on why I scum read Noraa. That read list Noraa made when she put me as newbtown gave me a bit of a pause and I started wondering maybe Noraa could be town and if she was scum, I would have assumed she would continue on trying to get me eliminated and then later she did a 180 on me. On my first completed scum game I also made a read list and I didn't get coached. Noraa's play really has been confusing me.

Gloria gives you meta that suggests Noraa is town.

In response.. you throw out using meta as reasoning. Just after you used the insane "Town!Noraa doesn't pressure" meta as a reason to vote Noraa. Seems awfully cherry-picky. Gloria's meta is stronger (the emotional range stuff).

That's what I said earlier and Noraa is putting pressure in this game. I did not read her completed games and I only quickly skimmed 2 of her scum games and 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like. In 2 of her scum games I quickly skimmed she used by the lines of, "I would like to put pressure or I will put some pressure on you." When I quickly skimmed through 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like, she did not mention the word pressure when she placed her votes.

This is the kind of read I would expect from someone who swears by meta, not someone who has bad experience with it. It's crazy. Why must you vote Noraa so badly? This again comes as a response to Gloria pointing out why your evaluation of Noraa's meta is wrong.

Overall your Noraa read is crazy and very convenient in a Fred!scum world when she was the most promising counterwagon. There is something else I found weird about the people you were willing to shoot:

Spoiler:

Vaxkiller
Lapsa
Noraa
Fidget
UNOwen

This is your five you would shoot. All of your reads that aren't Noraa were essentially OMGUS, with Noraa also partially being OMGUS.

Vaxkiller's play makes no sense. Earlier he randomly votes me and then says Bell is shading but still leaves his vote on me. On #2509 Vaxkiller said he's glad he voted you but he never voted you and he lied. Lapsa's vote switch on me when a wagon started to build on Toogeloo during my absence looked sus.

I'm also scum reading Unowen because once when Noraa started to get defensive and all those votes piled up on her, Unowen says the wagon on Noraa looks promising and then randomly shaded me about my vote on Noraa which looked sus.

@Noraa There are some players who are suspecting us as scum buddies and if you really are town, then this makes me think scum are the ones who are trying to make it look like we are scum buddies when we are not. UNOwen and Fidget are the players that come up from the top of my head.

I don't find "Reads are weird, a bit inconsistent, and OMGUS-centric" quite damning so I am not yet willing to say I'm confident you are scum. If Fred is red I would shoot you in a heartbeat, though, because the Noraa read then makes sense.

And yeah, I am used to seeing you townslip so it's partly just weird for me not having you in the locktown bin for once.

You pretty much said here if Fred is scum then that makes me scum. Fred said he is town and your theory has been off the mark.

[Adorable]

Not an easy mode free win then.
Shelly thinks I am obvscum but will not try very hard to get me killed because she knows as soon as the scroll is in my hands it will be heading in her direction.

I'm not sure about shooting Adorable. I think the general OMGUS focus shows a fairly consistent perspective but from what she says Adorable has a meta of doing this which might mean she is playing it up here. Will be interesting to see how she responds to the HURT at least.

@Adorable, what other reads do you have besides Noraa? If you’ve already done this, then please link those posts.

Other than Noraa I have also been scum reading Fidget. I have had other players who recently went up my radar which are Titus and Flea.

[Adorable]

Forgot to mention Theta also went up my radar. I was town reading her earlier and afterwards there was this post she made that pinged me and I could also see her as scum.

[Adorable]

Insert post 4976 by Fredrick A Campbell

So why Adorable over Fidget then and what happened to your strong Tayl0r sr? Did it suddenly just vanish?

I received a case on Adorable, not on Fidget. As for my strong Tayl0r Swift scumread, I trust someone else (you or PookyTheMagicalBear) will follow through on it and give her the scroll. I don't trust that either of you would pass it to Adorable despite the case on her by Fidget, though.

Fidget said if you are red she would shoot me and that's not a case.

[Adorable]

If the scroll is given to me then that would mean I would have to be the one to try to pass the scroll to scum. I'm leaning on passing it to Noraa, Fidget, Titus, Flea, or Theta.

[Adorable]

UNOwen's post on #4961 makes me lean more on Fidget being scum since she mentioned omgus. Fidget should have already known before when this game started that I omgus as town alot and Fidget complaining that I suspect players who vote me is a red flag. Hopkirk also made some good points on Fidget being scum. If I am wrong on Fidget and she turns out to be town, then that means Fidget played a very bad town game.

[Adorable]

The scroll will probably be passed to me and I don't know who to pass the scroll to because I get the feeling I might be wrong on my read and will end up passing the scroll to town. Most of the time my reads are 50/50 and I'm not a great scum hunter. Hopkirk correctly town read me which starts to make me wonder if he has godly reads who correctly called out a scum player. I might be thinking on sheeping Hopkirks read and pass it to a player he scum read.

[Adorable]

I've been getting deja vu vibes here where a player correctly town read all the players including me and put all the scum players in the scum pile and null reads before he got lynched.

[Adorable]

Gloria pretty much said my thoughts. I have been scum reading Noraa which makes me think scum more likely put a placeholder tag on me thinking I would pass the scroll to Noraa and then I said I was leaning on passing the scroll to Fidget. Scum must have panicked and ended up putting a placeholder tag on LL. I can also see this as a good frame attempt on me. Fidget's late vote on Fred looked like a bus and it makes alot of sense for scum to bus for town cred. Most often it's always the town players who get scum read after a scum flip for not being on a scum wagon.

[Adorable]

Fred hurting Adorable then switching to LLD makes me scum because Adorable would pass the scroll to me?

Why would Fred!scum ever give the scroll to Adorable at all?

I am going to be very unhappy if LLD passes to Noraa after all this.

Actually yeah maybe Fidget after all, that "town read/no I'm not townreading them/well not anymore" stuff was quite weird.

You are killing me solely off of how Fred interacted with me?

UNOwen's post on #4961 makes me lean more on Fidget being scum since she mentioned omgus. Fidget should have already known before when this game started that I omgus as town alot and Fidget complaining that I suspect players who vote me is a red flag. Hopkirk also made some good points on Fidget being scum. If I am wrong on Fidget and she turns out to be town, then that means Fidget played a very bad town game.

Your reads on D1 were poor, yes, although that's not the meat of it. I want to kill you based off your Noraa/Fred interactions which you don't seem to want to talk about for some reason.

Bad town game is.. lol. Sorry for not being able to read your mind, Adorbs.

Presuming Fred is indeed scum (and it

is

unlikely he would curse LLD without a word otherwise) I agree that Adorable has good odds of being scum now. Thought she was town because of the cool reaction to the scroll threat, but Fred!scum means she would've known all along what was going to happen so it's not worth anything. Red Adorable flip would be useful for hard clearing Fidget and Theta too. Would be my second choice after shelly.

Fred/shelly/Adorable/DGB/???? <- maybe scum team is something like this.

Oh yeah we're winning this game

I pretty much said earlier I scum read Noraa. Me being scum and continuing to vote Noraa when she was being town read by some players makes no sense and I also said earlier I was wary scum were forming town core for each other who wants to make friends with town. Only interaction I had with Fred was when he put a placeholder tag on me. Fred said he is town and I thought he was town who was going to give the scroll to me.

[Adorable]

@Fidget You have been asking why would Fred scum give the scroll to me and scum must have thought I would give the scroll to Noraa.

[Adorable]

I pretty much said earlier I scum read Noraa. Me being scum and continuing to vote Noraa when she was being town read by some players makes no sense and I also said earlier I was wary scum were forming town core for each other who wants to make friends with town. Only interaction I had with Fred was when he put a placeholder tag on me. Fred said he is town and I thought he was town who was going to give the scroll to me.

Except for the fact other players suspected Noraa and she was the counterwagon to Fred? Your reasoning for Noraa being scum was insane meta, and you dismissed the Fred scumcase because it was meta based? Scum benefits from not bussing here? Am I such a terrible town player for saying this?

You having a history of scumreading Noraa is perfect reasoning for you to not switch. I refuse to believe you play scum in such a predetermined way. Earlier you were like "Do you seriously think I look into Noraa's meta as scum?" too. Are you claiming to be super low effort as scum? You're supposed to emulate town as scum. Why would scum!you avoid doing these things, at all?

When I am scum reading a player, I vote for my scum reads and town should always vote on their scum reads. Scum are the ones who have to be careful on their reads.

By the way, that's not how I play as scum. I only have 3 completed scum games and first completed game I was distancing with a scum buddy and afterwards I played passive and voted no one, second completed scum game I fake claimed vt in a mass claim and was forced to get in a 1v1 because of my claim since players were suspecting scum to be in a vt claim, third completed scum game I played so passive and I voted no one.

[Adorable]

When I am scum reading a player, I vote for my scum reads and town should always vote on their scum reads. Scum are the ones who have to be careful on their reads.

Yeah, I know you're gonna vote for your scumreads, I'm not arguing against that. Your reasoning in your vote post

Noraa's play has been confusing me and that 180 she did earlier on me when Toogeloo was holding the scroll was sus. Her post on #3942 about Hopkirk also looked like scum shading him. So from what I gathered, scum Noraa likes to put pressure on players and she has been doing that in this game and town Noraa doesn't put pressure.

VOTE: Noraa

was utter insanity. When Gloria brings up meta that is more reasonable for evaluating Noraa

Could someone tell me why they are townreading Noraa or Tayl0r Swift? I am absolutely not.

Noraa’s emotional range is much greater here than in any of her scumgames + she’s making detailed, nuanced readslists. She didn’t do that in ANY of her scumgames and here, she’s doing that like it’s going out of style almost.

So, either Noraa’s suddenly switched up her scum meta or she’s town. The readslist also reads super genuine and not coached, so I’m obviously a lot more confident on Noraa!town than Tayl0r, especially after skimming The Trials but I still think it could be playstyle.

I’ve already explained Tayl0r but she should definitely be able to give reasons for that read, I did.

I have had some bad experience with meta and most of the time I don't focus on meta anymore. In my last micro game I played someone was getting town read for meta and that player turned out to be scum. I was getting scum read for meta and I was town. I have said earlier on why I scum read Noraa. That read list Noraa made when she put me as newbtown gave me a bit of a pause and I started wondering maybe Noraa could be town and if she was scum, I would have assumed she would continue on trying to get me eliminated and then later she did a 180 on me. On my first completed scum game I also made a read list and I didn't get coached. Noraa's play really has been confusing me.

You dismiss it based off of "bad experiences with meta". Gloria saying that Noraa is out of her emotional scumrange is very much what I am thinking, too. Noraa "not putting pressure" as town is not a thing. You are only accepting meta that helps you scumread Noraa. Why?

During this time frame you are also ignoring Frederick in favor of talking about Noraa and asking me for my reads. You have never had Zdenek/Fred on the table this game. You dismissed my read as "If Fred is scum, then Adorable is scum", rather than actually respond to it.

You are calling me a bad town player for this read, but I am only calling it as I see it.

Noraa's play has been confusing me to the point when I quickly skimmed 2 of her town games and 2 of her scum games. I have had other reasons for mainly scum reading her before I even looked through her completed games and the part when I mentioned meta was a bonus and the meta read was not the main thing I scum read her for and you should have already known that by isoing me.

Me ignoring Fred is not a bad thing and that's actually more town indicative since I was not expecting Fred to be scum and town are the ones who don't even know who scum is and are the ones who talk about their scum reads. I responded to your post that made Fred vote me and then Fred said he got a case and I said to him that your post was saying Fred and me are a team and Fred voting me literally made no sense to me since your posts was talking about me and Fred being a team and since I thought Fred was town, then why in the world would he vote me when you were talking about a team of Fred and me.

[Adorable]

By the way, that's not how I play as scum. I only have 3 completed scum games and first completed game I was distancing with a scum buddy and afterwards I played passive and voted no one, second completed scum game I fake claimed vt in a mass claim and was forced to get in a 1v1 because of my claim since players were suspecting scum to be in a vt claim, third completed scum game I played so passive and I voted no one.

You yourself have told me that meta is a bad way to read you, and yet, you use it as your defense repeatedly, this being the third time I can recall.

You even admit to have bad experience with meta (but only when it goes against your Noraa scumread). What am I supposed to think, Adorbs?

But I should still entertain it, yes. You are saying you are more passive as scum and tend to not throw your vote around unless you absolutely have to? So in this situation, you would not have been voting for either wagon for fear of being caught out on a CW? Is that how I should interpret this meta?

You keep bringing up meta which is why I talk about it. First time you talk about meta mentioning me was when you said you have played with me in my scum game and I said I have never played with anyone by the name of Fidget and then I figured out you are an alt and second time you talk about meta was me looking into Noraa's completed game since her play has been confusing me. To answer your question in the third sentence, I would have bussed for the town cred which is why I think there is some scum who voted Fred and bussed him.

[Adorable]

Spoiler:

I've read up to page 6, and skimmed the more recent stuff.

Unvote

Consider my vote on Noraa.

Ok I still haven't read but I have a question that I want answered by the time I do, should we change how we lim? Like if there is someone who people townlean but we know they have a strong scum game are we more likely to vote them in this setup?

Can I ask what led you to this? I'm curious because it came up in the thread and it makes me question whether you've read or not.

I'm inclined to agree that Noraa's town-slip looks faked, and the meta argument for why it is scummy seems good to me.

what even is this considering zdenek is scum

My top three scum reads are Noraa, Owen and Bell.

What's this all about?

Ah yes, I knew that my vote against Noraa would lead to good things.
The wagon looks promising, Noraa's reaction to the pressure has indeed been flaily.
Adorable's vote was not great.

and then explaining why he quoted these

@Zdenek - But what's it all about?

Laziness, and bolstering and attacking the wagon on Noraa in the same post.

fred may not have an interaction with adorable
but zdenek does

this interaction also leads me to believe unowen is town
and supports my thoughts that adorable is scum

Can you explain this? I understand your UNOwen!town read but not your Adorable sr based on this?

zdenek was defending adorable by attacking unowen

i suppose there are other explanations for that though

Reading through Zdenek's iso it looked more like he was attacking UNOwen. From what I remember scum are the ones who don't defend their buddy.

[Adorable]

Spoiler:

I've read up to page 6, and skimmed the more recent stuff.

Unvote

Consider my vote on Noraa.

Ok I still haven't read but I have a question that I want answered by the time I do, should we change how we lim? Like if there is someone who people townlean but we know they have a strong scum game are we more likely to vote them in this setup?

Can I ask what led you to this? I'm curious because it came up in the thread and it makes me question whether you've read or not.

I'm inclined to agree that Noraa's town-slip looks faked, and the meta argument for why it is scummy seems good to me.

what even is this considering zdenek is scum

My top three scum reads are Noraa, Owen and Bell.

What's this all about?

Ah yes, I knew that my vote against Noraa would lead to good things.
The wagon looks promising, Noraa's reaction to the pressure has indeed been flaily.
Adorable's vote was not great.

and then explaining why he quoted these

@Zdenek - But what's it all about?

Laziness, and bolstering and attacking the wagon on Noraa in the same post.

fred may not have an interaction with adorable
but zdenek does

this interaction also leads me to believe unowen is town
and supports my thoughts that adorable is scum

Can you explain this? I understand your UNOwen!town read but not your Adorable sr based on this?

zdenek was defending adorable by attacking unowen

i suppose there are other explanations for that though

Reading through Zdenek's iso it looked more like he was attacking UNOwen. From what I remember scum are the ones who don't defend their buddy.

Or did I misunderstand you, do you think Zdeneck and UNOwen are distancing?

You misunderstood me. These kind of interaction I can't tell and I'm leaning on it not looking like this is distancing.

[Adorable]

If Fred and shelly are scum buddies, I feel as if Fred passing the scroll to me would have been better for scum shelly since mafia would have probably expected me to pass the scroll to Fidget and scum shelly would have more likely wanted Fidget dead. Something doesn't look right here. Since shelly is getting suspected so much the only players I could think of who could be her scum buddies are somewhere within these players Titus, Flea, DGB, Taylor, pooky.

[Adorable]

Fidget is asking a question that has already been answered from before.

[Adorable]

Nah

How is she not almost IC? Fred put her in obvious danger and it’s pretty damned obvious that he was fine with her being scrolled.

So that explains why Fred put a placeholder tag on me since I was scum reading Noraa and then I said I was leaning on passing the scroll to Fidget.

[Adorable]

I'll just assume scum still plan on putting me in the poe to make room for more mislynch options since that's what scum needs the most.

[Adorable]

Flea
Pooky
Adorable
Fidget

Flea Town
Pooky Lean town due to Taylor interactions
Adorable Lean scum due to being Noraa’s counterwagon
Fidget Who the fuck knows

Huh? Earlier you said I was inactive and you put me as null and now all of a sudden out of the blue you put me as a scum lean for being the counter wagon to Noraa. This doesn't seem to match on what you said earlier.

[Adorable]

@MUSHAGANA On day 2 you said you did not like me and you didn't say why. How am I supposed to defend myself when I don't know what it is on why you didn't like me? I have said earlier shelly was getting suspected on day 3 and the only players I could think of who could be her scum buddies are somewhere within these players Titus, Flea, DGB, Taylor, Pooky.

Bell and Murdercat have also been getting town read and I find it really interesting mafia did not give the scroll to one of them which makes me think they called out 2 or 3
scum players on their list.

This was Bells list: Fidget, Titus, Flea, Taylor

This was Murdercat's list: Fred, shelly, DGB, Flea, Titus

shelly gave the scroll to MUSHAGANA which starts to make me wonder if shelly is feeling confident the scroll will be passed to town since it seems like MUSHAGANA has been focusing on Gloria, Fidget, Pooky, and me.

[Adorable]

Town:
Bell
Taylor
MURDERCAT
Gloria ??
Fidget ????
Noraa ????
Pooky ????
Flea ??????

Scum:
DGB
Adorable
Titus

Preference is DGB. The solve is probably not those three, so I'd guess there is scum in my town group. I am not ambitious enough to attempt to figure out who I am misreading there without first sorting out the scum group.

Adorable is in there still because shelly going to the defense of Adorable with "Noraa/Adorable is not s/s" (which I remember her repeating a few times) is a pretty scummy way to defend someone while leaving plenty of room to back out if necessary. I also may be falling for the WIFOM of Fred's fake out, but it just seemed like the kind of thing designed to push a scum buddy into the green zone. I had a slight town lean on her way back because the "A -> B" logic of her posts read as earnest and sincere, but she has a bit of experience behind her and I don't think that is too high a bar for her to fake.

Seems like I'm getting scum read here because shelly town read me earlier and that's not how scum hunting works. After a player flips scum, to catch the next scum is to see what the living players would do next if one of them is going for a new agenda. Mafia's goal is to eliminate town and mafia will also try to make fake association with town to try to make it look like they are scum buddies with a town player when they are not and once when one of the scum players gets eliminated, they will try to take down a town player with them by making sure the town player gets eliminated next.

[Adorable]

Titus has been suspicious which was already mentioned and I think Flea is also scum. I iso them yesterday and there were some posts Flea made that caught my eye. I'll case Flea later when I'm on a computer.

[Adorable]

I said earlier I would make my case on why I think Flea is scum.

wow thats a hell of a defence to what was basically thought streaming my way through ISO posts shelly. Haven't even looked at you properly yet [3 pages behind at this post]

The smiley face at the end looks like scum who is talking to their scum buddy.

Well that's a naff result

VOTE: Freddy

Pressure here is good I think, UNOwen is my other option currently.

This vote came from nowhere and this was the first time Flea mentioned this slot. Flea is the fifth voter on the wagon and this looked like a bus. The sad face they put at the end looked like scum who is sorry for bussing their scum buddy.

I like when my gut is right. I should listen to it more...
still curious what info you were wanting from me Noraa. *shrugs*

Amma re-read shelly and fidget.

My gut doesn't like them.

And I'm still convinced VOTE: UNOwen is a good move.

Flea said they liked when their gut is right and when I looked through their iso I wasn't able to find Flea say their gut read on Fred.

oof over 100 posts behind.
Give up Shelly, you ain't reclaiming that title.

Eugh I just realised this means I need to take unowen back to null at least

Said they put UNOwen on null which looks like Flea wanted to make room for more mislynch option.

seriously though, whats the consensus on

Horae

Mushs townblock/POE?

Feels like they are posting for the sake of posting and why does Flea even feel the need to say this when mush has already talked about the poe?

I'm happy going with the PoE list and again, given I'm at the bottom, Ill pass to Gloria. It should be over by that time, however.

So wait a minute, it looks like Flea is saying here they know I will flip town and will pass the scroll next to Gloria after my flip since mush said she wanted me to be before Flea.

[Adorable]

I'm guessing all of the scum probably bussed and distanced each other since we have seen shelly bus Fred and DGB bus shelly and Titus if she is scum.

[Adorable]

Taylors stated intent to scoll me, reviewing me at this stage is pointless until you see my flip, lets be honest.

After taylor scrolls me, Adorable is the only person left in PoE, and should be scrolled immediately.

I don't believe this will leave PoE as I'm 100% that adorable is the last scum. Titus' pass skipped over Adorable and directly to Taylor, indicating that Adorable is the last scum to me.

Freds vote there was theatre aimed at framing you and clearing adorable, that's clear to me now.

There should be NO reevaluation of anything, frankly. The path is set.

Titus did not pass skip over me and directly to Taylor. Taylor was always Titus first option and you are lying. Did you even see when Titus wanted Taylor scrolled when mush had the scroll? I have been scum reading you since I think you are the last scum. If you are somehow town then that means there is a deepwolf who is hiding in the town core.

[Adorable]

Bad call since I'm town. Flea lied and twisted my words.

[Adorable]

Oh! I just realized Taylor claimed scum and she ninja'd me.

[Adorable]

Taylors stated intent to scoll me, reviewing me at this stage is pointless until you see my flip, lets be honest.

After taylor scrolls me, Adorable is the only person left in PoE, and should be scrolled immediately.

I don't believe this will leave PoE as I'm 100% that adorable is the last scum. Titus' pass skipped over Adorable and directly to Taylor, indicating that Adorable is the last scum to me.

Freds vote there was theatre aimed at framing you and clearing adorable, that's clear to me now.

There should be NO reevaluation of anything, frankly. The path is set.

Flea lied over here twisting up the story.

[Adorable]

Taylors stated intent to scoll me, reviewing me at this stage is pointless until you see my flip, lets be honest.

After taylor scrolls me, Adorable is the only person left in PoE, and should be scrolled immediately.

I don't believe this will leave PoE as I'm 100% that adorable is the last scum. Titus' pass skipped over Adorable and directly to Taylor, indicating that Adorable is the last scum to me.

Freds vote there was theatre aimed at framing you and clearing adorable, that's clear to me now.

There should be NO reevaluation of anything, frankly. The path is set.

Flea lied over here twisting up the story.

Flea will have to be flash wagoned tomorrow for lying and twisting up the story.

[Adorable]

Congrats town. Turns out my reads were decent for correctly scum reading Noraa, Lapsa, and Titus. Had Fred in my poe but I was focusing too much on my Noraa scum read. shelly was the only scum player I wrongly town read.