Death Curse

[shellyc]

FIRST

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

[shellyc]

"You've also given half of your players mod permissions. Somebody's plagiarised post 2 with Sans playing the trombone. Fix this mess, Hectic, we don't pay you to be incompetent."

don't expose me

it's fun to shitpost gifs in mod posts

[shellyc]

Bell are you town here

i've got my dayvig gun ready

[shellyc]

I’m always town you scum claimer

I hate being town so have to imagine the feeling of seeing a red role PM

[shellyc]

that being said hectic gave me town which is saddening

pooky pocketing bell detected, -1 townpoint

[shellyc]

My understanding is that scum get one day vig you can’t shoot a scroll holder.
We get three flips at once.
That occur over a 7 day voting phase.
Then 2 baton passes for an additional 6 days of content.
3 flips repeat.
No scum NK?

obvious IIoA

Bell's towngame consists of quite a fair bit of IIoA tho so this is probably slightly town!AI if anything

pedit: Shelly liked this vote

[shellyc]

I’m not sure if I wanna just give the first scroll to lapsa or not.

hmmmm

whats the lore with lapsa

vault why no RVS vote

[shellyc]

VOTE: shellyc

better?

not really, you're forcing a vote at my request

[shellyc]

^ which means you are aiming to please me instead of scumhunting

not the hugest ping but still something of note

[shellyc]

He doesn’t post much.
And the game’s unique mechanic makes sure that he gets a fair shake at hunting if he’s town this game,

Win/win

He’ll probably just throw the scroll in my face tho.

why would you execute a plan in which you'd probably die ultimately

[shellyc]

Because I’m genius town.

if you're town dying means there is one less town member

[shellyc]

For somebody who doesn’t like April’s style, you sure are playing like him this game. :3

wait I'm confused whats the FL style?

[shellyc]

I dunno, I can’t define that mess.
I’d like to imagine he’s sitting on a desk in front of a type writer surrounded by papers and being buffeted by winds constantly somewhere.

I don't hate FL's style

since the last time I've played with you, I've developed a liking for death tunnelling scum

[shellyc]

Uh, if I wanna do mech thoughts

every time you hit scum on the final pass you deny the scum an entire NK
which seems pretty dope

so maybe like
decide on 2 consensus scums, vote the less scummy of the 2 consensus scums

The less-scummy-consensus-scum passes the scroll to town. If they didn't pass the scroll to town, I'm plenty happy enough, my plan is fine
The town that got passed to always passes to that person we decided was heavy consensus scum. They have a strong chance of flipping scum and missing the NK

isnt this just a world that vengeful town vengekills scum or am i misunderstanding something

[shellyc]

Vault that's right
initial thoughts

I think Zdenek's effort to find a strategy is rather townie with the proactivity, i think town are much more likely to read the setup tbh
hopkirk actively disagreeing with it is also town-ish
UNO ignoring the mechtalk makes my scumdar go off a bit with the passiveness towards setup optimal strategies

[shellyc]

im bad at mech so cant really weigh in on setup spec, but 58 looks decent, so we should aim for town being the second pass, and scum being the first target, so it's still fairly like regular scumhunting

[shellyc]

Or shelly? I mean ideally we just yeet shelly asap

No because I’m town and even if I hand it to scum they still get the nk

[shellyc]

Idrt scroll passing is all that confusing. Read isis oost

[shellyc]

*post

Basically we want to hit scum last as it denies scum an “NK”

[shellyc]

I’m not sure if we should just dogpile on Noraa now or just have a gentle beings agreement to give them the scroll later. Though I think the latter could be a problem in getting situated with good reads and atmosphere.

no this is fence-sitting

I love the bell-noraa push

VOTE: noraa

I know scum!noraa, this is exactly like them. self awareness, overdefensiveness instead of reads, cautiousness instead of stubborness

[shellyc]

I don't see how this is IIoa. all I see is confused townie trying to double check if what they know is correct.

oh and noraa hates bussing

no its not confused townie
its forcing townslip with the "scum no nk'

[shellyc]

Taylor - town for realizing that this isn't AI due to previous experience playing with me
Murder - null bc he didn't realize it wasn't AI even tho he has played with me before but the paranoia towards shelly is very town bc when playing with shelly, it is nerve-racking trying to determine if you're being absolutely fooled or if you are judging too much and she's actually town. I feel this paranoia all the way after one scum game with her where she told me about all her evil plans in the scum pt and after one town game where I was fooled by her big time. Something that town pings + something that scum pings cancel out and so I am null but prolly town lean still.
Pooky - town because I believe he believes in his SR on me and scum wouldn't bc scum knows who their scum buddies are.
Lexi - null. I still dislike the discord argument. Lexi's been more eager to push me than Pooky has which tbh is a bit strange considering normally the one that starts it is the biggest on pushing it :/
Isis - town because the tone is towny and I relate to some of those posts in that I would say something similar in her position
Bell - townie confusion. could be faked but I'm willing to believe it is real for now
Shelly - scum for misrepping people and also for throwing shade at pooky yet never voting pooky.
Vaultdweller - scum. can't quite put my finger on what's wrong here but I'm def getting scum pings.
Hopkirk - null but lean scum. dislike the jumping on all biggest wagons for no reason.

lol

this is clear scumpost
noraas trying to do 'solving', this is on the verges of TMI on some of the TRs
while town are getting a feel for the game you're fakesolving

[shellyc]

im super duper concerned at the number of people who have decided to push noraa as scum this early, and dont trust them either.

*eyebrows arching*

i think scum busses here tho
having differing takes is rather town

[shellyc]

VC on this page.

yeah im pretty sure ive seen town noraa react exactly this way. i dont townread noraa, but i dont think this is helpful in sorting noraa and i think itll be reasonably easy to sort noraa later.

you know what noraa is doing
clear fakesolving
throwing random SRs

[shellyc]

ok lets sort those slots and loop back to noraa later on in the day. people are wayyyy too confident for page 10. this is not a good push.

taylor do you get it yet
noraa's making random reads on people
does not engage positively with LLD
does not read LLD

this is also moving the game out of RVS

[shellyc]

this stuff is NOT AI for noraa.

it is
town!noraa is stubborn as fuck
scum!noraa is fence0sitting by calling LLD null

[shellyc]

lld i dont like how youre trying to paint me as scum here. if im scum, regardless of noraa's alignment, its an awful play for me to be so blatant in defending her. i get wayyy more scrutiny than WK points, and if she flips scum i probably die too.

this is right
bell is scum for basically refusing to read noraa
noraa is scum for outlined reasons
LLD is town because lld/noraa is not s/s
taylor is town because of this post

why is murder town btw, entrance doesn't really ping either way

[shellyc]

Ah yes, I knew that my vote against Noraa would lead to good things.
The wagon looks promising, Noraa's reaction to the pressure has indeed been flaily.
Adorable's vote was not great.

Think this is quite LAMIST
Hey I’m voting with you all! I’m town for this!

Adorable shade not explained which is weird

[shellyc]

No Taylor is not paragon

they’re being fairly anti but they’re not dumb as scum and wouldn’t defend scum buddy with wagon shifting towards them

[shellyc]

woahhhh 9 people on my wagon. thats a first. Opportunistic scums are plenty in this game then. Shelly and Adorable specifically. I'm still convinced they r scum and I think I'm definitely passing it to one of them if I get the scroll since I dont have any really strong TRs yet.

Why do you think I’m opportunistic scum when I do have good reason to SR you
This is a random flailing sus

[shellyc]

Adorable doesn’t really ping and adorable noraa not s/s

[shellyc]

Another thing I’m rather concerned about is bussing scum

With the speed the wagon is going I’m pretty sure at least 2 in those 9 names

[shellyc]

its a concern because im always paranoid
covering all bases is better

[shellyc]

On the other hand I agree somewhat with tailor that the LLD approach might make things more confusing than whatever normal rvs looks like.

its giving us info

bell what is your read on noraa and LLD
do you think this means LLD is being antitown

[shellyc]

You’re basically dead to me at this point shelly.
This is your scum game.

...

asking for reads = scummy
paranoia = scummy

this is omgus by the way, i've been SR on bell since forever

[shellyc]

Lld is town. A blind person can see that. And if theybcouldn’t See it a dead person would hear it.

yeah. but you pointed they were anti in your opinion, so i was wondering why you decided to say your TR's approach is weird

[shellyc]

Regarding Noraa my heart just dropped.

while not voting noraa

which is a very scummy move to look good for the cameras while trying to slow the wagon

[shellyc]

hold on

you think it's weird to townread someone and think they're handling a situation wrong?

Cause the comment they made was "hmm maybe RVS is made a bit weird by how aggro LLD is being" not "LLD is scummy for this"

So why are you flipping it like this?

yeah i think its weird

you either townread someone or you dont.

[shellyc]

Their comment here is hard to misconstrue as an anti-lld sentiment. It's a "Taylor was saying we need more wagons and I wonder if maybe they're right".

Bells is WRONG here, but not for the reason you're implying.

so how did you come to this conclusion?

bell: theres a possibility that LLD is playing aggro and taylor is right
also bell: LLD is town

im not saying bell is SR on you
im saying bell is doubting your methods while townreading you

[shellyc]

No. You're saying he's throwing suspicion on Noraa in order to look good, but he's not committing the vote because he's holding out for the wagon not going through. Is that what you're saying?

YES

[shellyc]

im saying bell is doubting your methods while townreading you

which again, is a way to discredit the noraa push without going against town leader

[shellyc]

me who didnt read half of the thread: bell read on LLD
bell: LLD is town but I disagree with their approaches
me: do you think LLD is being anti
bell: you're scum shelly

where did i ever say bell was SR on LLD

[shellyc]

Question: What is the value of Bell continuing that method right now with 9 votes on Noraa and a clear indication I am a rabid dog with my teeth sunk into her and I have no intention of letting her live past today?

because noraa is a really inconsistent town player and ive seen town noraa playing reeeeally scummy

[shellyc]

me who didnt read half of the thread: bell read on LLD
bell: LLD is town but I disagree with their approaches
me: do you think LLD is being anti
bell: you're scum shelly

where did i ever say bell was SR on LLD

"LLD is being anti-town" is akin to asking someone if you think someone is behaving in a scummy manner.

anti town =! scummy
scummy = you think person is scum
anti town = you think person is damaging the town wincon, includes scummy people as well as lurkers/trolls/tunnellers sometimes.

[shellyc]

The question is what does Bell have to gain from soft protecting her when she's definitely going to die today anyway.

Bell was soft protecting earlier when the wagon wasn't as fully blown as before.
They havent updated their read there.

[shellyc]

mush being obvtown is new for me. this game brings many new experiences.

re: mush
I think they're usually rather obvtown (and they're still like that now)
paranoia after space was likely
i think their theory of noraa is town but doomed is wrong but scum wouldn't do that, they just bus
their proactiveness/effort is also hard to fake as scum
im town on mush aorn but even if they're scum im confident in my abilities to sort their alignment

[shellyc]

gloria you an alt or hydra?

pooky thoughts on bell right now
do you see what I'm seeing

[shellyc]

Am I townlock yet

unfort no until you produce content

[shellyc]

@Mush
do you have other TRs than taylor/LLD?
because you mentioned having a "few" TRs

[shellyc]

I already said bell is scum a while ago

ftr if 2 more people say willing to kill bell lets pivot together onto that slot

I get nothing but scumvibes

[shellyc]

im currently laser focused on bell because noraa is going to be today and i do SR there but I feel like that slot has been touched on too many times and is rather obvious scum

re: Bell defense of noraa. if bell just bussed there noraa would probably be dead already
discrediting without pushing and the effort to make reads is a reeeeeallllllllly good way to stop the push while still not going against the town leader
taylor just straight-out WKed there and bell discredited the push/agreed with taylor but still townread LLD

[shellyc]

I'll just as soon burn you to the ground for doing this as I will let that happen.

yes noraa dies today im like, not opposed to that at all but i feel we're wasting too much energy on outed scum

[shellyc]

Thanks bear.
Now stop throwing shade at me. It makes me think you’re scum. Cause you aren’t asking anything and lacking curiosity here.

all bell knows to do is omgus

[shellyc]

isis did you just shade everyone other than fidget (who is quite consensus town) in that post

that's scummy

[shellyc]

You’re making two steps when there isn’t even one.
Whatever you think I told her to do, I didn’t.

see this is clearly further evidence that bell is scum
when pooky puts pressure there they omgus, flail even more and just say no im town
do you expect me to buy that

[shellyc]

I want to vote someone other than Noraa who is scummy no matter what Noraa flips

For now I think VOTE: MUSHGANA

isis you need to like, read mush games
their style of scumhunting as town may be questionable
but its hard to fake
they post huge proactive walls, once they held back on reasoning on an SR to reaction test, their play is profoundly different and rather obvtown

[shellyc]

I dont lack curiosity

I've got a distinct way of scumhunting, I apply pressure harder to garner reactions and re-evaluate, all you're giving me is pinging my scumdar

[shellyc]

pedit: HAHAHA meaning I will definitely not read any mush games, for one

that's sad

can you elaborate on the *why* on your read
I wanna know if you're shitpushing or having a bad read, 'cause you're wrong

[shellyc]

*can you elaborate on the *why* on your shellyc read

[shellyc]

I don’t care if you buy that. But your arguments are false from the get go, so why should I engage with them?
Should I break out the paper and pencil and draw you a map?

if you're town you know I push wrong
you engage with me to see if im making a shitpush or just a wrong one
you make a read on me
I re-evaluate you
profit (if we're both town)

you're not doing these things
you're complaining that i SR you
you're flailing

[shellyc]

*can you elaborate on the *why* on your shellyc read

this is to isis

[shellyc]

You care about being right, which tends to be a red thing.

???

where did I care about being right

[shellyc]

1. You’re projecting, I voted you first. So by definition you’re infusing me if you’re town.
2. Ongoing.
3. In all the games I played with you in none of them did I ask a question about a push on me. So where you’re getting the assumption that as town I would is bizarre or bullshit.
4. You know my issues. And yet you’re still scum reading me for ongoing reasons so play better or stop scum telling so hard.

because you were obvtown and was never pushed
i do but im not SRing you for any ongoing game reason at all

[shellyc]

because in each game i've played, someone has been town and im using that as a blueprint
are you saying that in order to read someone you have to play a game with them

[shellyc]

I don't want to look

my WIM for this game is pretty low

so you just misrepped me for no reason, voted mush for thinking mech = good (which is fine imo)

+5 scumpoints

[shellyc]

LOL SHE QUESTIONS FOR EVIDENCE OF CARING ABOUT BEING RIGHT

THEN SETS UP A SCOREBOARD FOR MAFIA LOLOLOL

i literally have a scoreboard in almost all of my games
i don't care about being right, i care about making it clear who i think is town and scum

[shellyc]

Bell will you help me with this game? I think you're town. I guess you could be scum doing fancy soft defend anticatalyst stuff people said but you feel like town and I don't care

ok isis/bell/noraa/???/???

[shellyc]

hmmmmmm

ok mush is town
mush LLD taylor pooky are locktown

[shellyc]

Wow, it looks like everyone decided to start playing at the same time. I see noraa is the top and only wagon. Can someone give the the tl;dr why?

noraa faketownslipped then flailed a whole lot after that

[shellyc]

Post number?

whole iso is scummy as fuck

[shellyc]

^^ you have my permission to throw a scroll at either of these officially.

leashing scroll = even scummier
scum needs to leash scroll

pedit: see isis gave up because im too good

[shellyc]

I claim scum

give scroll to noraa
noraa gives to LLD (?)
LLD gives to isis

two scum down

[shellyc]

*noraa gives to whoever town

bell you're simply not town and i wont engage with you anymore because I've already formed a conclusion about your alignment

[shellyc]

no I mean Shelly is right. If Noraa is scum she's probably handing me the scroll.

Except that would be a mistake, because if Noraa hands me the scroll she confirms herself as a correct scum death and I go for the 2 point play without fear.

And that's bad for her. So many scum!Noraa pretends and hands it to someone town but wrong?

hmmmmm but that's protown as it narrows the poe

[shellyc]

noraa if you give me the scroll second I promise to use it right

why would your scumbuddy give you the scroll

isis gave up because bell and noraa were caught hands down

[shellyc]

nah

pooky thoughts on mush slot?

also bell im fine if you death tunnel me i just wont care about it

[shellyc]

did I really just have someone try and fucking omega brain kill me when I am playing the best and most obvious town game of my life

because I'm ignoring them and I have no real opinion on their game and have other things to take care of

and I didn't even know they wanted to kill me?

exactly

this game is on the verge of being solved
noraa is scum
isis bell contains scum

[shellyc]

No way Bell or Lady are scum

why is bell even town

also this whatever talk is spamming the thread and detracting us

[shellyc]

I generally find players who start to tilt under pressure towny.

so you think flailing is a towntell

thats impressive fidget

[shellyc]

@LLD do you actually SR isis or are you just frustrated with their play

[shellyc]

I don't give you the Shelly part. I got fooled one hundred percent in the scum game she played against me: the only time I even sniffed something amiss was near the very end, but I was hoping the other conftown in the game was going to make an argument in favor of a scum-Shelly so I could reframe my view of her, but instead we both were fooled. I still cannot see how she was scum in her earlier play that game, there is no tell I can spot, I'm just staring in confusion. Even pretending I can read that slot is a mistake. I am worthless with Shelly, absolutely, positively worthless. I thought I could read her and I was so wrong that even with full knowledge and rereading, only the very endgame pings me /at all/. Long story short: I'm not curious because I'm terrified. Honestly, you should be too.

can I sig some of this

re: fidget, imo being SR'd as scum can garner emotion reactions as well, but im willing to consider your points. still , overreacting to 2 (?) people that are pushing you isn't a great look

also isis are you the type of player that thinks every post is AI

[shellyc]

curiosity is not AI, if you dislike curiosity doesn't mean everyone who isn't curious is scum

logical inconsistencies coming from an emotionally-driven person isn't AI as well

[shellyc]

scumclaimers dont live. i think isis partnered with noraa seeing LLD absolutely dictate this game might sacrifice, not the highest possibility tho

[shellyc]

could you at least find somehting real to scum read me for so I can pretend that feeling like you might be town has some merit to it?

this is like, the core problem of isis' play here
they're making SRs and putting people at top of scumlist for very weak reasons like "LAMIST" and "lack of curiosity"

which is why i don't TR them at all and they seem kinda overconfident in things which I wouldn't expect as town.

[shellyc]

I don't see anyone else in the "shade" post, but I do see that I townread two people, not one, so I demand shelly correct her scoreboard!

i change it when i please
noraa is at -10
bell is at -7
isis is at -4
mush is at 6
pooky is at 7
fidget is at 7
LLD is at 8

[shellyc]

ok consider that as a readslist of reasonably active people

@isis if not everything is AI why are you finding extremely weak reasons to read people and making something out of nothing

[shellyc]

oh and I turned pedits off

I'm not very confident. I like having my vote somewhere at all times, that's how I play. And everyone's readslist has to have a top and bottom, if the person I think is the scummiest doesn't have much I can list, that means my overall reads for the game happen to not be strong.

this comes from more town than scum imo
its genuine and self reflective which I don't really expect from scum
+1 townpoint

[shellyc]

add TS to the list as townlean for the records

can't see scum!TS making that play towards LLD at all

[shellyc]

pedit: there's often tonal or difficult to articulate points that are also affecting my read, but I have to present the things that people can engage with

Isis you play the style i find easiest to engage with which is good

what do you think of the pooky slot atm

[shellyc]

I genuinely think Noraa is hilariously doomed town. This was really kind of like, uhh, shit I don't know. Dropping a compact SUV on a kitten? It's just an overwhelmingly anti-Noraa game in a lot of ways, because I'm seeing an eager and experienced town out for blood and Noraa just sort of plays Mafia the way I browse for groceries. This matchup always ends in Noraa going down. There is no survival possible for Noraa in this player list, regardless of alignment.

My town read is based on stuff I can't /really/ convince anyone with, so why am I bothering to bring it up again?

Honestly, I just sort of started typing and then I imagined Noraa as an unspeakably adorable cartoon cat staring up with big watery eyes at a cartoon anvil the size of a small house falling towards her with the words "Death Curse Mafia Game" slapped on the side in big red block letters and I knew I had to share with the class.

lol

ftr i would still like you to explain it for associative down the line, but this is like bussing without getting cred. Mush is obvtown with noraa associatives

[shellyc]

I want to call Pooky's accusation of ghostwriting difficult to fabricate. Maybe I shouldn't though since a sudden shift in grammar pattern is like, a neutral thing to notice, and then when you type up a post to remark on it you could go "hey, this is spinnable?" I want to townread him but I'd definitely like to supplement that reasoning. That was the thing I remember finding most remarkable

Shelly liked this post

ok isis can be in null zone for now im satisfied

I call them out and they actually engage with the game vs. bell who overreacted and didn't have a solving mindset at all

[shellyc]

664 reads like a townpost to me no matter what noraa flips tbh

all the mush posts read super town

mush has a reeeeally distinct playstyle and hard to fake as scum

[shellyc]

For my part, I'm building a picture around Isis. Theories haven't been panning out in either direction, a lot of "dead neutral and I still have to accept it" outcomes. But I have a box of associatives to stare at now, so I should be able to sit back and watch the thread to get reads there more or less passively.

fill me in on where you're at

I'm pretty torn on isis, think where you're at can give me some different insight

[shellyc]

Basically
I dislike reading people according to mech. and i think brute force isn't that bad tbh
Pre-game rethink thoughts on Isis:
Their "am I locktown yet" sounded rather lamisty, and they basically shaded everyone other than fidget in the catchup post which is scummy, simply because keeping the poe wide is the core of scum agenda
isis then TR's bell without much explanation at all weirdly
not much explanation for any reads at all and weak reasoning (but explained later that they wanted to make reads, which is protown)
the huge self vote gambit seemed rather plausible with LLD being on point, but ehhhh its on the verge of throwing
Post-game rethink thoughts:
some reads > no reads imo, the admission that their reads might not be the strongest felt genuine, engaging with me at my request read had a townie tone
they pretty much did opposite of flailing
so overall im just null there.

isis trying to vote elsewhere with noraa might be notable in terms of associatives, but thats like bussing without getting the cred again

[shellyc]

On a quick reread, I could also see a world where Isis and Pooky are red and LLD is green here. Gambit's still dumb as hell, but Pooky takes a LOT of the sting out of the risk and there's an interesting progression I see in the posts where it goes from "Calm Down LLD" as the primary goal to "Casting Doubt on Isis-as-Scum Possibilities", maintaining rapid contact and identical writing tone throughout. Interesting that Isis keeps needling throughout, but that mostly helps sell the illusion being offered if it's a Pooky+Isis team.

what is the objective of the scumteam when if LLD flips green isis and pooky's gambit are wrecked and scum are 2 down

doesn't make sense at all

[shellyc]

casting doubt on isis scum is pretty blatant associatively bad

[shellyc]

Lies! I townread Theta Alpine! You should too!

ok i missed that

but you can't manipulate my reads

[shellyc]

"I should be TRing Bell"
"proceeds to SR Bell"

inconsistency = bad

[shellyc]

shelly could you please manipulate my reads, I'm not actually sure I should townread Bell

sure
vote bell they are scum

that iso is terribly underwhelming, bell discredits the push by LLD without SR on LLD, and basically is soft-defending noraa
when I start SRing bell what they do is flail a whole lot and complain about me pushing them
they basically also omgus anyone that SRs them, which isn't a protown mindset

[shellyc]

I don't get what you're trying to say at all Bell, im serious tho

[shellyc]

How can you have played as many mafia games as you have and think inconsistency is a reliable and accurate methodology that works at finding scum?

yes, it's a reliable and accurate methodology that has found me scum before.

scum have to push an agenda of miselims, and may forget their stances on someone while trying to push their wincon.

[shellyc]

im not an alt btw so no idea why you think I have boatloads of experience playing

[shellyc]

at least the inconsistency in logic deserves an explanation from zdenek

[shellyc]

man i've been trying to fake a newb

ok fine, but inconsistency generally comes from scum more than town especially in that exact SAME POST without elaboration

[shellyc]

UNO's not usually immediately obvtown but i've got confidence i can sort there, providing they give content

I would like to hear your thoughts on specifically Isis and Bell

[shellyc]

non serious i just found i might have a bias towards scumreading people with tiny names and townreading people with long names

[shellyc]

You've been multitabling since July shelly. I c u. Don't play.
The first five games or so are where you kind of turn a corner with it I think.

what does this even mean lol

[shellyc]

This is because even if you’re really good at this game if you’re right 50% of the time you’re playing insanely well.
The point being is that our own brains suck at math and this humbles us because we’re incredibly arrogant.

this is wifom because if we overthink it we just end in an endless loop of re-evaluation
and some reads > no reads
that is probably my townplay motto

[shellyc]

Probably?

the other one is "mafia is a game of charisma, the least charismatic person each day gets elim'd"

[shellyc]

I disagree my slot is content free. It has a juicy and filling Noraa scum read, I do not expect to vote elsewhere until she is cursed.
If there is something specific you'd like me to opine about, ask and I will provide.

yes

thoughts on isis and bell now

[shellyc]

Isis is mildly suspicious. I did not like the "give me vig" plan, I can believe someone who thinks they have found a high profile but town read scum wanting to take the shot. However, the reasoning provided was not very compelling, the main point being some meta behaviour that I don't know about but doesn't sound like the type of logic that would convince me. This makes the whole thing look like a performance. The retraction seemed to come about naturally though, I'm not sure that was the sort of thing that could be planned out.

interesting take

ok why do you think the logic is weak because meta itself is quite compelling

[shellyc]

im fine with you not reading bell but you shall give shelly the overlord more things

post a full readslist of active people

[shellyc]

I dunno, you’ve seen the follies of people enough and you’ve been scum enough to know how often we are to be wrong.
Though there’s a lot of players that are like that and keep on truckin’
So meh.

The charisma thing I feel plays more into early day phases and irl mafia than online mafia. But off topic

if we think we're wrong -> re-evaluate theres a point where the chain has to stop and i feel no need to post every single part of the re-evaluation

[shellyc]

Okay. I guess just from recent experience if you’re town the scum team must be enjoying your reads rn.

I don't have terrible reads

I think my read accuracy > ability to obvtown any day as town

[shellyc]

we should make an MD thread about this someday

UNO come back please
isis are you still reconsidering bell

[shellyc]

If LLD scum always tries to avoid a player and they have enough experience together for this to be a thing, then it probably would have come up before and so LLD scum would know to play around it. It sounds like kind of a weak tell to try and take out the most proactive player and yourself over.

but why would scum ever try and miselim a proactive player when they have a nightkill

wait
scum don't have a nightkill
this makes sense uno you're good

[shellyc]

but i guess scum could just vengekill a proactive player but scum lose their NK after that

so conclusion this is a super townsided step woohoo

[shellyc]

UNO i would like these names arranged in order of town -> scum
shellyc
Mushagana
isis
pooky
LLD
hopkirk

[shellyc]

im getting major gut townvibes from hopkirk btw, based on the resistance to leashing, the pushing on noraa and reasonable TRs

[shellyc]

Okay. I guess just from recent experience if you’re town the scum team must be enjoying your reads rn.

I don't have terrible reads

I think my read accuracy > ability to obvtown any day as town

There’s a lot that factors into that .
Most of us are content with being accurate but unable to convince others that’s the case.
Though I feel like if you can’t show your work you’re probably not going to be that accurate in the first place and just having a reputation for being accurate gives you a lot of pull.

@shelyc, didn’t I ask about that. And didn’t you start the game out by joke scum claiming that you had a day vig, which in this game only scum have? Well, I think it was an rtc
But because mountainous.
Hmm.

I really son’t Think this is town sided in terms of set up since essentially we have no way to mechanically clear any player.
It’s pure scum hunting with the caveat that scum can’t shoot their partners.

we effectively deny scum an NK if we hit scum on the last pass

[shellyc]

LLD
MUSH
shellyc
Pooky
Hopkirk
Isis

insightful

why is mush that high though

[shellyc]

I reread some of Bell's posts, I guess I kind of see it, I think they're a lot less concerning with green!Nora though

oh are you still thinking of the possibility of noraa town
noraa's whole iso screams LAMISS*

*Look At Me I'm So Scum

[shellyc]

I reread some of Bell's posts, I guess I kind of see it, I think they're a lot less concerning with green!Nora though

I’d rather take the heat and have scum Noraa scrolled than have no heat and a town Noraa scrolled.

It happened in a second game even though it was a pattern in the first, so that counterargument didn't matter to me.
Even assuming she's aware about it, why couldn't it be correct play to just do it anyway and get voted and end up an

eleventh

of the way to getting eliminated? It's unlikely to be compelling to other players.

Well two games experience certainly doesn't sound like enough to establish a pattern.
If you're playing with a player who has a scum tell on you that you can easily counter, then it is surely correct play to just do that?

no
based on my vast experience playing scum
it's sometimes all about finding a target audience

[shellyc]

LLD
MUSH
shellyc
Pooky
Hopkirk
Isis

insightful

why is mush that high though

Reeee why is this insightful.

The LLD read is a consensus read and not too out of place.
The Mush read is well-reasoned and logical
The Pooky read is fine since pooky/isis s/s is possible
I would like you to elaborate on hopkirk tho

[shellyc]

Hopkirk I just have trouble reading through the rhymes because i’m not enjoying him like I usually would due to anhedonia.

bell is your name uno

[shellyc]

I don't think you're solving, because the goalposts here should clearly be at "I believe Isis believes this" rather than "Isis is right to believe this", because "2 games isn't actually enough evidence" is a very good argument that in a disciplined scientific way it's flawed but it should be pretty obvious a human you don't know very well could be rather convinced from just a couple games.
VOTE: UNOWEN

i can see uno's logic tho
that two people who know each other's meta well would adapt to get a TR

it's not really scumpingy at all
plus UNO's reads are rather good

[shellyc]

Hopkirk asked about the specifics of what Noraa said in discord. I expect that this is one place where Noraa might be correct - as in she only mentioned Hectic as a mod being exciting or whatever and nothing about setup - but don't think it makes her reaction to the wagon any less scummy so Hopkirk investigating something that looked like a dead end pinged slightly.

hectic is a rather boring mod

don't modkill me

an investigative mindset leans town though, it's not making something out of nothing, it's quite clearly a solving mindset

[shellyc]

At this point we are probably treating Noraa as scum so she can just pass to LLD without much cost

because it opens up the opportunity for LLD to hit scum on that last pass

[shellyc]

VOTE: bell

[shellyc]

just realised i never voted here

isis is actually pretty town
the gambit is just weird as fuck scum move

[shellyc]

Kinda agree with bell tbh

no you're wrong

[shellyc]

Do you believe I believe it, yet? Do you still scumread me?

the fact that you're willing to consider my case on scum!bell and proactively make reads is ++townpoints
i don't SR you aorn

[shellyc]

Yeah, i’m not particularly sure why you’re trying to derail the noraa wagon.

there are enough votes on noraa already, and if someone accidentally hammers we just lose today

[shellyc]

Right but if Noraa is correct that she did not mention setup in discord, does that make her more likely to be town?
It doesn't seem like a useful line of inquiry, because I already presumed she had not mentioned setup.

but I mean how would you know that confscu-I mean noraa is telling the truth

[shellyc]

murder is your scumdar broken or something

[shellyc]

How often do scum defend their partners. By saying and I quote “i’m Glad i’m Not partners with this person”

it's possible, but not when more than half the town are geared towards the kill noraa gang

[shellyc]

shelly, have we ever been town together.

no

[shellyc]

Isis, Shelly and Bell aren't sitting right with me as I've been reading. More likely a dirty duo than a terrible trio in there though.

is this your first game out of newbies
you'll have to do more than that
you'll have to explain the why

[shellyc]

flea's tone reads weirdly agreeable to me for some reasons which isn't strictly AI

[shellyc]

Shelly I just feel like you could be bussing here, trying to setup getting something out of it. But I don't feel as strongly as I did 10 pages ago

im capable of both bussing/not bussing as scum and if you look at the risk/reward losing a scum today for (maximum) two town isn't really worth it at all if I was scum

[shellyc]

murder can you make a full list of town -> scum like I asked uno to did for everyone active in the game

[shellyc]

RL > MS

I'll get back to this though eventually

[shellyc]

I'm specifically interested in the following players giving me a Hopkirk read especially.

UNOwen
Bell
Zdenek
Shelly
Adorable
Theta
Lapsa

These people, please read Hopkirk and give me a read. "Null" is not a read unless you can justify it real well, please. I want you to lean TOWN or SCUM essentially "would you kill Hopkirk?"

I've already given my read there.

Hopkirk is town for being investigative with noraa, and their opposedness towards zdeneks leashing doesn't come from scum imo, because leashing is proscum

[shellyc]

has Noraa been hammered yet?

this thread has really blown up

[shellyc]

No and I think she's town and there are better people to hand the scroll to.

explain the flailing fake townslip and overdefensiveness and fakesolving

we're not flipping anyone else sorry

[shellyc]

Oh no, Shelly's doing it. Am I going to finally catch Shelly being scum? Or is there something I've missed somehow?

your scumdar is broken, again

I don't get how wanting to flip noraa is a scumtell in all fairness
im trying to divert attention to bell in fact by having this interaction so I can sort them

[shellyc]

Show me the fake solving.

noraa SR'd gloria for not providing content yet, and leaves alone the whatever slots that are lurking, and makes a full readslist with so much confidence, it's probably tmi

[shellyc]

Has thee been any fake solving since that point or is it just the one post?

Which parts of it looked like fake solving?

I cannot quote right now because I'm on mobile, but the time where LLD pressed hard noraa threw out a gigantic readslist and SR'd me/adorable for tiny reasons and they did it again with gloria
which is making something out of nothing
which is a scumtell because scum need to achieve miselims

[shellyc]

Wanting to flip Noraa isn't a scumtell. But there's very few people are making anything of that desire left, because there is no way Noraa doesn't get cursed today. Noraa is inevitably and inescapably doomed.

...But here you are, with Pooky, treating it as if it's vitally important to hit Noraa right now or you might not have enough people somehow or something I don't know it's ridiculous. It'd be different if you were on Bell's side, but you're getting what you want regardless here. If nothing changes Noraa still goes down. /Bell/ has reason to try and play the proselytizer, but /you/ don't, and /Pooky/ doesn't. So what gives? Why are exactly two people acting as if the foregone conclusion is in danger?

mush you play like mastina or something
it's not a danger

Bell TR'd Noraa
I want to know why Bell TR'd noraa
I say the reasons that noraa is scum
through this I infer bell's alignment
it's using scum!noraa case to sort others

[shellyc]

What's the difference between a big reason and a tiny reason?

lazy reasons to scumread people are bad because they're weak and a large means there will easily be wagon sheepers, thus making a bad wagon
weak logic is bad anyways
do you think "lurking" is a very good reason to SR someone

[shellyc]

The timing and wording you use indicate the same -- you didn't /ask questions/, you /made statements/. Arguably your request for explanation could be taken at face value, but given the target has absolutely flatly refused to megapost, the broad scope of the request, and you had left NO room for your mind to change at all, I think anyone would be safe in dismissing that as exaggerated, sarcastic "yeah sure let's see you change my mind" sort of wording.

I'm not a complete idiot, Shelly.

I like making statements you got a problem with that
sr for personality = bad


Bell makes reads. They don't megapost but when they're town they DO obvtown.
How are you supposed to know whether I left space in my mind, do you have access to my notes pt

[shellyc]

fine I will spell out all my mental trajectories

No and I think she's town and there are better people to hand the scroll to.

explain the flailing fake townslip and overdefensiveness and fakesolving

we're not flipping anyone else sorry

asks bell to explain how my scumtells are indicative of a town noraa

Show me the fake solving.

noraa SR'd gloria for not providing content yet, and leaves alone the whatever slots that are lurking, and makes a full readslist with so much confidence, it's probably tmi

bell told me to show the fake solving, i respond, and also know that bell now has an interest in hearing what I say -> they're actually having a response to PRESSURE in particular, not just flailing throughout

Has thee been any fake solving since that point or is it just the one post?

Which parts of it looked like fake solving?

I cannot quote right now because I'm on mobile, but the time where LLD pressed hard noraa threw out a gigantic readslist and SR'd me/adorable for tiny reasons and they did it again with gloria
which is making something out of nothing
which is a scumtell because scum need to achieve miselims

I tell Bell what I see in Noraa and they follow up with questions finding out what I think, which is +town indicative of a solving mindset

What's the difference between a big reason and a tiny reason?

lazy reasons to scumread people are bad because they're weak and a large means there will easily be wagon sheepers, thus making a bad wagon
weak logic is bad anyways
do you think "lurking" is a very good reason to SR someone

I point out where exactly noraa is making weak arguments and the ramifications of that, and Bell and I have an conversation making me able to sort Bell, because what Bell is doing here is having an investigative, proactive mindset by prodding me to answer their questions, thus I am now less lockscum on Bell, the end.

[shellyc]

Mush looks like town, I think fidget looks like town, hot take is that taylor seems like town

ok these are good reads

I can see town murder

[shellyc]

LLD's posts do look pretty town, quick glance at her voting looks genuine.

consensus-er?

I was rather torn on your pred so give me those townvibes

fwiw vault has requested replacement and voting inactive doesn't help at all so ehhhh that iso doesn't really ping me either way

[shellyc]

This is probably scum.

isn't the pro scum play here to just. bus Noraa and get LLD and misdirect LLD

[shellyc]

I don't get scum motivation to sit on their hands on Noraa slot
they just bus Noraa with LLD impossible to marginalise now

isn't Lapsa a lurker as either align

[shellyc]

Oh and also im starting to SR UNO rather hard rn

they're just floating around and their progression on Noraa looks rather bus-y

p-edit: wow hopkirk
you can read my mind
Hopkirk is so town

[shellyc]

A decent part of my Zdenek townread, looking to be one of my spicier reads atm, is that blatantly bad 'we should do this strategy' style posts come from newbtown from a good place (which I get in the tone of their follow ups to me in regard to it), not newbscum trying to fake content.

ehhhh

but the easiest way of fake content is a mech oriented approach

also this feels like a game which I can solve through PoE
murder/mush/Taylor/fidget/hopkirk
these are town slots

[shellyc]

This is what I feel like is happening with Pooky tbh. But this exactly why I want to just do Noraa and work off that. Like I said, let LLD work and sorry through it all later

murder you're scum reading Pooky?

im slightly opinionated by the pooky-taylor and am gunna reread again there, because that's not giving me any TvT gutvibes

[shellyc]

but overall im still majorly town on Pooky for one of the pioneers of the Noraa wagon instead of someone like UNO, who is coasting it all through

[shellyc]

@shellyc

Whos inactive and whos voting them?

a lot of people

I was referring to hopkirk wanting vault

[shellyc]

Isn't this the exact order you wanted to hear though? You picked 4 people you thought were obvtown, one slight town, and one suspicious (all reads you'd said) then Uno's order didn't conflict with that at all. What was your logic behind those specific 6 being the listing?

scum would want to shade consensus TRs and I wanted to find that in UNO

[shellyc]

scum do not have a nightkill

the only way to get a nightkill is to sacrifice one of their members
thus in here they will have to give more effort to shade consensus TRs so they can miselim them at some point

[shellyc]

I liked that reads list but I reread UNO's ISO and it feeeeeeels like bussing imo

like the points where UNO basically just headlines that "I've been SRing Noraa! Give me TOWNCRED!" doesn't sit right with me at all

[shellyc]

Quick question, once someone gets the scroll, I HOPE were still going to all vote (even if its unofficial) for the next person to get it.

It really only seems more advantageous for the scum to not talk and just kill someone.

Or is the game paused when the scroll is handed out?

no, leashing is bad because that hands some control to scum if the scroll in town hands

[shellyc]

I know, that is why it is "night kill" instead of night kill. What I mean is a scum directed kill, which they can do if we catch scum first or second and they feel no pressure to remain pretending.

yeah

so I was referring to shady/discrediting reads towards consensus TRs
I found you

[shellyc]

Yo Bell, why are you voting shelly?

because I'm scum reading Bell hard (and still am)
UNO take a look at Bell's ISO tell me what you think

[shellyc]

wait I asked you about this already and you said rl issues and don't want to read them

still I wanna tell you that bell is in essence omgussing here

[shellyc]

idk I feel UNO is a player who I cant reeeeally get a grip on

there are posts shading Pooky (who I TR)
there are bussing Noraa posts in that iso

I think town!UNO has that "wow" factor from what I've seen of them and I haven't got that yet

[shellyc]

town!UNO is proactiveness, a genuine spiritual interest in solving snd I don't get that *yet*

but at the same time UNO doesn't really townspew early on

I might be rambling here but tl;dr UNO's in the red zone

[shellyc]

Hmmm, I was thinking more along the lines of we get scum, they will do everything in their power to NOT kill another scum, we could get soem good intel from that. I would at LEAST prefer no hipshots and a good reads lists.

why wouldn't scum just insta-kill a townie then to limit discussion

[shellyc]

I feel you are misreading my reply to MUSH if you think I was attempting to claim credit or whatever though, I was just joking about the fact that my ISO at that point was indeed lazy.

hmmmmmmm

oh and I also have a terrible sense of humour

so yeah. uno is in red zone. but less so. I think 1415 comes from town more than scum. a defiant tone towards someone who is wrongly scum reading you is hard to fake as scum, because scum know the person pushing them is being correct

[shellyc]

vax entrance was rather consensus-y not sure if I like that + their pred was the null isis

Idk I feel like there are scum in the lurker zone given how much I TR much of the rather active players

now gunna reread pooky-taylor

[shellyc]

Question for anyone: Is there an overwhelming majority of players who think Noraa is scum or is there just an overwhelming majority of players who think LLD is going to make sure Noraa dies soon so aren't putting in too much effort?

nah noraaaaaaaa's obvscum

[shellyc]

murder/mush/Taylor/fidget/hopkirk

why are you confident in hopkirk?

catchup thoughts flowed reeeeally naturally imo and the way they poked around re: UNO really matched with what I was thinking

[shellyc]

tryhard taylor = scum-taylor

town taylor is a lurker who posts shitty dog pictures

no town taylor is 1000000000% not a lurker. k thanks.

taylor is rather obvious town with the resistance to noraa

[shellyc]

and currently i want to vote adorable the scroll

do you think noraa was bussing adorable, if you SR noraa?

[shellyc]

im actually thinking

Taylor - > Pooky -> Noraa would be a pretty damn good scroll pass

If we are not doing Noraa first then I would lean more on Unowen is scum which was mentioned earlier. And also I wanted to add on #101 what Theta said are my thoughts exactly. On #680 it looked like Isis also had the same thoughts as me and Theta which makes me think Isis is also probably town with Theta. On #708 Unowen said Isis is suspicious and I would have assumed town Unowen would have picked up on what Theta was saying on #101 and would have also assumed Isis also picked up on this too and would have leaned town on Isis. This makes me think scum did not know town were asked to confirm that scum had daytalk.

I also saw somewhere that doing this t>s>t is bad and I'm assuming town would have to pass the scroll to a town read if the first scroll is handed to a town player.

idk
this post is actually town!AI and vibing with my own thoughts
adorable is not locktown but they're def not a good wagon

[shellyc]

Well, I guess I'd have to ask you what about it strikes you as towny. Do you know?

sometimes its kinda hard to explain tone but that tone reeks of newbtown, and the UNO/noraa logic vibes with my own logic (UNO forcedly bussing noraa)

[shellyc]

I never see posts like the one fidget just made come from town. Ever.
Why do I have so many scum reads this game.

ratio = 15:5
why is that post coming from scum tho
fidget is close to locktown zone

[shellyc]

fidget do you like, see the possibility of noraa town because i find it so hard

that noraa wall is pure omgus

[shellyc]

I’ve now read over 50+ pages of this game but everytime, I believe I’m finally caught up, there’s at least 10 more. So what I think so far is Mush, LLD. Isis and Titus for town. I really don’t know who’s scum yet. I will probably be useless until D2 or 3, so I might just sheep Mush/Titus until I get some clarify.

gloria cleary are you an alt

I'll post less oneliners and more walls so people dont have trouble keeping up
--

why is titus/isis town? are you doing the consensus TR thing as well
why do you think you're useless
why would you sheep titus and mush in particular and not your other TRs

[shellyc]

Shelly, do you honestly, sincerely, hand on heart, vibe with the thoughts expressed in 1549?

I don't reeeaaaaaally vibe with hard TR theta because im having a townlean-ish there aorn but the rest of that looks good

[shellyc]

Adorable's spiderweb accusation against me which connected together posts from three different players was pretty earnest, which could suggest newbtown. I think it will be possible to get a more solid read there as they post more.

this is kinda weird that you're actually Townreading the people who are SR on you
anti-noraa or something

[shellyc]

Bell, still scumz. Whoop whoop whoop whoop.

theta is a tone/gut read because the content is not mind-blowing in that iso

[shellyc]

Ok I've realized I want to do other stuff today so I might get back to this later.
I'm going to vote one of these people. Hm.

Toogeloo
Unowen
Fidget
Bell
Noraa

VOTE: Fidget

im good with anyone on this poe. except fidget. why are you getting fidget scum at all.

[shellyc]

Are you seeing Pooky vs Taylor as TvT or TvS

wanna comment on this: I TR'd both pooky/taylor and am pretty sold on that being a town conflict
pooky was one of the drivers of noraa wagon, pushed scum!bell with me
taylor is always town imo, no way they would WK a scum buddy in that position

pooky failing to engage with others and hyperfocusing on taylor reads pretty townie counterintuitively as scum is aiming to shade as many people as possible since they have no proper nightkill

[shellyc]

do you want me to like, explain why adorable is town or do a commentary of that post or what

[shellyc]

If we are not doing Noraa first then I would lean more on Unowen is scum which was mentioned earlier. And also I wanted to add on #101 what Theta said are my thoughts exactly. On #680 it looked like Isis also had the same thoughts as me and Theta which makes me think Isis is also probably town with Theta. On #708 Unowen said Isis is suspicious and I would have assumed town Unowen would have picked up on what Theta was saying on #101 and would have also assumed Isis also picked up on this too and would have leaned town on Isis. This makes me think scum did not know town were asked to confirm that scum had daytalk.

I also saw somewhere that doing this t>s>t is bad and I'm assuming town would have to pass the scroll to a town read if the first scroll is handed to a town player.

- vibes with my SR on UNO
- supporting that with multiple players {theta/isis}
- pov with the confirmation of daytalk is a maybe townslip, because they know town was supposed to confirm daytalk

[shellyc]

readslist time

near conftown: LLD/Mush/Taylor
townie: hopkirk/Murder/pooky/fidget
townlean: adorable/theta/titus
null: inactives/isis or whoever that is nowadays
scumlean: Toogeloo/UNO
scumread: bell
near confscum: noraa

p-edit no we are not having a misunderstanding, I agree with the contents of that post

[shellyc]

this is ordered from left to right in tiers btw

yeah fidget could be deepwolfing but their tone reads as solvy and rather proactive

[shellyc]

You definitely don't get hit before Lady and a couple of other people it's probably best not to mention imo. I'm also very opposed to the idea of not sharing reads to avoid a NK. If we just solid townblock and do a POE today that's much better than the 'stay low until later in the game' when you're honestly more likely to eat a scroll since we'll have lost some of the bigger voices.

Given the scroll on Noraa is the better strat for dealing with the slot, we still need to pick an actual Lethal. I'd like as many second opinions as I can get on that, so any thoughts would be useful.

I'm assuming you hard townread me right now though right?

im suggesting bell/uno

unos posting has taken a turn for the worse today

[shellyc]

imo, what uno is doing feels like questioning to fakesolve rather than actually giving opinions and/or conclusions to people's alignments

[shellyc]

uno what is the point of asking me to follow up on something that i have made clear

[shellyc]

Hopkirk
Lady
Taylor
Vaxkiller
Mush
Zdenek
MURDERCAT
Shelly
PookyTheMagicalBear
Titus
Theta

seems fine but the other nine seems like the lurker block?

[shellyc]

Sorry, why is uno scum?

i dont have the WIM to do a full casing rn but uno basically tried and maximise townred through SR on noraa and seemingly wanting a lot of credit for it, the positioning around noraa was pretty bus-y, and their play today is trying to poke questions at me without actually solving or making conclusions

[shellyc]

Like think it is townie - yes
Actually follow the logic and agree with it - ????

as i said before im not a great fan of spelling out all my trajectories and instead prefer to keep that to my notes pt

but i do follow the logic and im not sure how you aren't able to see that????

[shellyc]

Also, my SR read of the user "Bell" is quite serious.

[shellyc]

i'd swap fidget -> zdenek in your solve but the rest of this seems quite solid

p-edit: why re you so confident in lld's ability to find scum

[shellyc]

ooh i really like that list from hopkirk

Bell you're inconsistent simply because making TRs is not equaling to pocketing. If you want to call everyone that TRs hopkirk as scum, SR this.