Death Curse

[Gloria Cleary]

---

Hectic rubbed his hands together in anticipation. It was his first year anniversary on the job, and he was about to unleash his greatest game yet on the world. He'd triple checked the role PMs 7 times, and was positive he'd got everything right.

He leaned back, relaxed, and waited for everyone to confirm.

His thoughts were interrupted as Isis stormed into his cubicle.

"Isis! I had a feeling I was due for a promotion. I'm guessing you want me to moderate Team Mafia?"

Isis sighed. "You've sent NorweiganboyEE a scum role PM, and he's not even in your game."

"R-really? Sorry about that, I don't, uh, I really don't know how that slipped through the cracks..." Hectic mumbled.

"You've also given half of your players mod permissions. Somebody's plagiarised post 2 with Sans playing the trombone. Fix this mess, Hectic, we don't pay you to be incompetent."

Hectic frowned. Perhaps moderating wasn't as easy as the listmods had advertised it to be.

---

This post is hilarious btw.

[Gloria Cleary]

---

Hectic rubbed his hands together in anticipation. It was his first year anniversary on the job, and he was about to unleash his greatest game yet on the world. He'd triple checked the role PMs 7 times, and was positive he'd got everything right.

He leaned back, relaxed, and waited for everyone to confirm.

His thoughts were interrupted as Isis stormed into his cubicle.

"Isis! I had a feeling I was due for a promotion. I'm guessing you want me to moderate Team Mafia?"

Isis sighed. "You've sent NorweiganboyEE a scum role PM, and he's not even in your game."

"R-really? Sorry about that, I don't, uh, I really don't know how that slipped through the cracks..." Hectic mumbled.

"You've also given half of your players mod permissions. Somebody's plagiarised post 2 with Sans playing the trombone. Fix this mess, Hectic, we don't pay you to be incompetent."

Hectic frowned. Perhaps moderating wasn't as easy as the listmods had advertised it to be.

---

This post is hilarious btw.

Hi friend.

Comments and reads on the goings on in the thread as of so far?

Not as of yet sorry. I will as soon as I read the game.

[Gloria Cleary]

I’ve now read over 50+ pages of this game but everytime, I believe I’m finally caught up, there’s at least 10 more. So what I think so far is Mush, LLD. Isis and Titus for town. I really don’t know who’s scum yet. I will probably be useless until D2 or 3, so I might just sheep Mush/Titus until I get some clarify.

[Gloria Cleary]

I’ve now read over 50+ pages of this game but everytime, I believe I’m finally caught up, there’s at least 10 more. So what I think so far is Mush, LLD. Isis and Titus for town. I really don’t know who’s scum yet. I will probably be useless until D2 or 3, so I might just sheep Mush/Titus until I get some clarify.

gloria cleary are you an alt

I'll post less oneliners and more walls so people dont have trouble keeping up
--

why is titus/isis town? are you doing the consensus TR thing as well
why do you think you're useless
why would you sheep titus and mush in particular and not your other TRs

I don’t need to respond to these individually because some of my answers will make others obvious. I have meta on Titus and she came into the thread with no apparent agenda which looks like town!Titus to me. She’s asking more questions than trying to push anything. Isis gets kind of weird as scum and she didn’t seem weird to me. Wrt to LLD, I’m still null on you. You’re last post was really good but some of your earlier ones leave me scratching my head. You can tr a slot and not be confident in sheeping them and I tend to have the most faith in slots that are not tunnelled unless I’m confidently mindmelding with them. Like if I have reads that contradict either/both I’ll go with my own but I’m a fan of how they’re both appoaching this game.

[Gloria Cleary]

I’ve now read over 50+ pages of this game but everytime, I believe I’m finally caught up, there’s at least 10 more. So what I think so far is Mush, LLD. Isis and Titus for town. I really don’t know who’s scum yet. I will probably be useless until D2 or 3, so I might just sheep Mush/Titus until I get some clarify.

gloria cleary are you an alt

I'll post less oneliners and more walls so people dont have trouble keeping up
--

why is titus/isis town? are you doing the consensus TR thing as well
why do you think you're useless
why would you sheep titus and mush in particular and not your other TRs

I don’t need to respond to these individually because some of my answers will make others obvious. I have meta on Titus and she came into the thread with no apparent agenda which looks like town!Titus to me. She’s asking more questions than trying to push anything. Isis gets kind of weird as scum and she didn’t seem weird to me. Wrt to LLD, I’m still null on you. You’re last post was really good but some of your earlier ones leave me scratching my head. You can tr a slot and not be confident in sheeping them and I tend to have the most faith in slots that are not tunnelled unless I’m confidently mindmelding with them. Like if I have reads that contradict either/both I’ll go with my own but I’m a fan of how they’re both appoaching this game.

Eta: I wasn’t aware that Titus slot was a consensus tr. Mush just seems super townie to me, don’t you think so? As to why I’m useless. It’s a large and I majorly suck at them early game but I usually obvtown late game, because there’s way too many people to sort and no flips to work off of yet.


Eta: Massive apologies @Shelly, I mistook you for Noraa. It was she who I was referencing not you.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

I got eliminated in three of my games this week so I'll have a lot more time to dedicate to this game. An hour ago I started ISOing and currently I have a read on everyone ... until I got lazy at the end but I might finish it up tomorrow. Have an unfinished reads list. I efforted these quite a bit so please set some time aside to read it. I am finally not overgamed(I had 9 games going on but 1 ended and I just got eliminated in 3 others recently so I finally have a clearer view on everything)

Reads incoming in a few minutes.

A read for everyone here(I did it by ISO as to make my job much easier otherwise I would've gotten a headache reading the whole entire thread). No one gets excluded

Adorable

Spoiler:

post 244 is this slots opening post and to be absolutely and brutally honest, I still do not like it. Generally, when I see a post sussing me while I'm under a lot pressure, I will never like it but I have taken a hot break and I still don't like it. This means that it's no longer a "I was being emotional" type of thing but rather a much more fair and solid read. "Not understanding why I am being defensive" is a really interesting thing to say here. The reason is that 1)newbies are always defensive. Regardless of my wins/losses, I am a newbie with a little over 2 months of time on ms and that is a fact no one can question. 2)rather than asking why I am being defensive which many people have already pointed out, just state whether its town indicative or scum indicative from your pov. That all aside, I think I am not that convinced this slot is scum anymore. Every single post from this user oozes newbtells. There are 0 independent arguments and every argument is some sort of OMGUS(ie SR on Uno and SR on me). I relate to this on a spiritual level. No matter how many people are sussing me(pressure doesn't matter, any amount will suffice), I will legit just OMGUS the fuck out of them. I always try to justify it otherwise but really ... let's talk facts. Im a noob. I hate pressure. I OMGUS. This is my form of self protection and tho it looks stupid/scummy, it is what it is for now. I hope for that to change as well since it really doesn't help with scum hunting but I can't really do anything about it rn cuz I haven't progressed past the point where I stop caring about pressure and just do my own thing. My reads are still heavily influenced by pressure. This is proven in all of my town games (if anyone wants straight up evidence, I can provide it) This slot oozes newb and reminds me a lot of myself except less active(a lot less active actually). Throwing away all of my SRs on this slot for now. Hot take this slot is just

newbtown

.

Bell

Spoiler:

first glance over and this slot has a lot of LAMISTing(ie posts 125, 139, 520, etc). I think that's slightly scum indicative bc, I generally don't say a lot of that type of stuff as town but I think it could just be play style and im too lazy to meta dive you. I really liked your defense of me at the beginning tho. It was very reasonable and I believe that if I was seeing a newbie slot get tunneled like this, I would also reply like that. I really like the courage there bc I do believe that getting involved in things like this and disagreeing with people taking up town leader positions can often result in you getting thrown straight under the bus. Generally, when I am NOT the person getting tunneled, I have zero fear as town so I think zero fear is town indicative. Indecisiveness(imo) is also for the most part, town indicative. You had a lot of hmm is Noraa scum? Nah maybe they are town. Or maybe they are scum. Etc, etc. This reminds me of my pms with mods when I am a pr. It literally looks like this:

Noraa shoots blah

. Wait wait no

Noraa shoots other blah

. Wait actually no

Noraa shoots other other blah

. Wait no no no

Noraa shoots other blah

. Wait wait wait wait wait

Noraa shoots other other blah

. Argh sorry mod

Noraa shoots other blah

. final decision

Noraa shoots blah

(that was the first decision ) Indecisiveness, though it is slightly a personality trait for me, is generally town indicative. I find myself so much more certain and less flip floppy when scum yet I have so many doubts and lots of paranoia as town. Also one post that asked if I normally post reads lists early in the game was really good cuz thats like investigating in on some meta and stuff. Your a bit fencesitty about your SRs(I can provide examples if asked) but thats generally how I am as well. I've been trying to actually just stick to one read lately but that ends up biting me in the ass a lot of the times too so idk. still trying to find a balance. You remind me a lot of myself sometimes as well. I want to say this slot is likely

town

for now.

Fidget

Spoiler:

Post 36 and 290 scare me. Unlike Bell whose whole play here has been LAMIST-y, your's doesn't stay LAMIST. only the entrance is lamist and that is really scary. I always think first impressions are the most important(ironic cuz I blew mine but nonetheless, I do think this) One of my pretty close online friends once told me that no matter what, everyone will always remember the first impression you left on them. Whether or only subconsciously or like it was just yesterday depends on the person. When you come in with that super LAMIST entrance but then drop it immediately, I get really worried you are just faking a really town look first and dropping it and relaxing once you realize the pressure all got sucked away into a Noraa vortex of doom. You really only talk about me. Every post somehow relates to me. Your reads on everyone have something to do with me. Meaning you are doing 100% preflip analysis and every single read is only true if I flip red. I 100% see that as a hohoho guys I have reads that are all based on Noraa flipping red. And AHA when she flips green, I can just be like ana oop turns out preflip analysis aint that hot eh. Excuse me for not having reads now cuz horrible Noraa lead me astray with her terrible awful playstyle. Most of your posts are 100% sheeping/buddying(ie posts 296(buddying LLD), all the isis buddying, 1265(buddying mush)) or 100% preflip analysis. No posts directly scream preflip analysis but its very clear that she is basically everything off of a red Noraa flip and when that doesn't happen, nothing she says she can't take back. I think this slot is

scum

aorn.

Flea

Spoiler:

I don't have much to say here but I think overall, I agree with literally almost every single post from this user. Well, I ... conditionally agree. Meaning if I was a townie watching myself get tunneled in the current situation, I would have basically the exact same thoughts as Flea as town but VERY different thoughts as scum. As scum, I would just push myself and pocket LLD. This means win/win for scum cuz they aren't even gonna get any SRs for jumping on cuz I was legitimately just playing scummy as fuck, being defensive as fuck, and just failing so badly at obvtowning. Plus pocketing LLD = a big shield that is right in front of you at all times cuz a bigger presence is much more noticeable and will get blamed more likely regardless of alignment. By far the most similar person to me.

TR

.

Gloria

Spoiler:

zero content. absolute lurker. two posts. I hate policy lims but if we are doing one, this is the slot to do it on. that may sound mean but I highly doubt we will get anything out of this slot if they continue with whatever they are doing and im always really paranoid that lurkers are scums cuz if they don't talk, ya can't sort. And if they be scum, ya still can't sort :/ This slot is a big question mark and a

null

.

Hopkirk

Spoiler:

I got lazy. Interpreting what all the verse meant got tiring after a literal 2 posts. I'm going to throw you in the

null

for now. I'll sort you as the day goes on.

LLD

Spoiler:

I can't sort this slot fairly because I literally want this slot to be scum so much that I don't even know what my read is anymore.

Lapsa

Spoiler:

I cannot follow anything of your progressions. I see zero progression in fact. But I feel like I'm obligated to give you a null cuz I gave Gloria a null and there's not a huge difference. Yeah, you 100% seem more opportunistic but I mean its unfair cuz Gloria hasn't said anything about the game and thats worse imo.

Null but scum lean

. None of your votes are justified and you don't engage anyone.

Murder

Spoiler:

Pretty annoyed at this slot atm. I hate that someone that has legit played a whole game with town!me and knows that im a big baby when it comes to not being stubborn, won't hear me out. He claims he engages me and shit but every time it reads to me like "Just fucking accept you are dead bitch. Now calm your ass and solve the whole game for me if you are town. If you don't, then ur scum" I feel forced to give reads but then you just come around and are like "oop well it doesn't matter cuz ur dead meat anyways" When Mush says it, it's different. You know why? Because mush understands that I fucked up but is unwilling to save me. You, on the other hand are basically pressuring me to give reads, pressuring me to not be antitown when I am mad, and constantly just being like "stop being mad noraa. ur dying anyways" That logic doesn't click with me and constantly just repeating the same damn thing to me isn't gonna get you whatever tf it is that you want from me. All you are gonna do is make me MAD. I'm throwing you in my SRs because I believe that town!you would see the town in me considering I am the exact same stubborn and stupid that I was in Roses. You aren't not seeing it. You know it is true but you know I am an easy lim as scum so you are pushing me hard. Thats the best I can interpret your play this game. I think you are

scum

.

Mush

Spoiler:

town

asf. there is no question. your play is 1000000% the same as the last game I was in with you where you were town and I was scum. It's a shame the one game I get to be the same alignment, I fucked myself over.

Pooky

Spoiler:

I don't know. I have trouble reading slots with this playstyle. Jokes can only go so far before they start looking like absolute trolling. I sincerely do not know and have flip flopped multiple times on you. I think I will throw you in the

null

.

Shelly

Spoiler:

ok I struggle with reading shelly and get really paranoid bc she has fooled me all the way before. In roses, I was hard tunneling her slot but she replaced in and I got really paranoid but then was like hmmm these reactions are townie. I ended up dropping the SR and untunneled. She coasted a tiny bit and threw me all the way off. I ended up tunneling elsewhere and almost drove a mislim when she was the last scum. This game, I've gotten quite some scum vibes. The problem is that based on my knowledge from playing with her, when she seems town, she is scum. When she seems scum, she is town. But in the Roses mafia pt, she said that she knew a lot of the players and was going to not play her normal scum game and now im extremely paranoid. I think you are scummy bc of all the buddying up to LLD, all the weird interaction with Bell(if that interaction was SvT, I think you are the scum), also bc of some really weak reasoning(ie post 68) I am absolutely paranoid and I currently still somewhat believe my read is correct so this is a

SR

Taylor

Spoiler:

town

asf. exact reasons as mush. anyone SRing, should meta dive. It's clear she is town. no question at all. I've learned to trust you, Taylor. The reason is that .... you don't really lie to be absolutely honest. I can explain this once its legal otherwise it breaches ongoing game rules so currently I cannot yet.

Theta

Spoiler:

Agreed with Isis on a TR here but flipped a few times and now this slot's

null

. Also im getting tired so the rest of the explanations r gonna be shorter. Edit: they basically dne

Titus/VaultDweller

Spoiler:

VaultDweller I had a scum lean/scumread on. Titus ... eh. Seems to be efforting more than normal. I have trouble reading replacements right away ... they throw me off. I'd like to re-sort this slot later so I'll lower the SR to a

null

for the time being

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Uno

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Vaxkiller/Isis

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Zdenek

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

I might go in and finish up the last few ISOs tomorrow but rn im tired. Im going to bed and they r gonna stay null for now.

Last thing, I don't think most of town is even convinced im scum. I don't really think its a consensus read because I feel like everyone has had these reads shoved down their throat. I think killing me is 100% a policy lim. Limming off a bad playstyle that actually proves to be helpful to town in the long run(statistics show this :3 I lead 2/3 town games to victory) is not a good choice imo. I'm selling for a pretty fair price. Im annoying, stubborn and useless for a lot of the game but can be extremely helpful towards the end. Doesn't have to be endgame. The longer into the game, the better my play gets. Go meta dive if you don't believe me.

Noraa's read list was interesting enough, but she is very

capable of high effort as scum in this situation

. It's a bit mean if she is town but we are in a game state where there appears to actually be an overwhelming majority that thinks she is scum so I believe the best way forward is to clarify that at the first opportunity. Going through the process of cursing two players while this is hanging over the game does not seem a very smart idea.

Adorable's spiderweb accusation against me which connected together posts from three different players was pretty earnest, which could suggest newbtown. I think it will be possible to get a more solid read there as they post more.

capable =/= will.
I have always ALWAYS as scum claimed that I would post a huge wall. But I have NEVER actually done that. They either didnt get a wall OR they got a rip off short wall. I don't high effort as scum. I'll spam the fucking thread but I will never sit down and spend over an hour just typing up a damn readslist.

Hey Norraa, 5, I’ve made 5 posts and unlike Hopkirk and Shelley - the only ones other than you who have act bothered to comment on them - you clearly haven’t bothered to read them. Why is that?

This is post #6, please keep up, thanks.

[Gloria Cleary]

wait, what

I was rereading, just got to the end, and Lapsa ... self-votes for no reason. And there's a chance its a reply to Toogaloo.

Uh. Well.

So, uh, had a Day today, still ongoing, but I am making some time to post real quick. I already disliked Lapsa's play, but now I feel like Lapsa is possibly game-throwing town? Consider their ISO. Game is boring, blah blah.

In other EXCITING NEWS, my reread has changed a bit of my reads list.

I'm now iffier on Noraa. She came back bright and I thought she might have a chance ... then back on the defensive. Yes, other players helped put her there but she didn't even struggle to ignore them the way I would expect of her personality -- straight from an attempt at a triumphant comeback to getting down in the mud again. This shift is more significant than I make it sound -- the break in personality puts her at weakly scum for me now.

Hopkirk is heading back towards scum -- there's too many posts that aren't remotely serious, and too many posts with inconsistent seriousness. The content seems intentionally obfuscated, but what I've seen I don't really like. Zdenek is town in what world? Hmmmm. Interesting to see the Hopkirk-Pooky-Tayl0r dust-up trio too, because I have scum on both Hopkirk and Pooky. The thing that pinged me is how intense Hopkirk got, the jokes forgotten, and yet at the end Pooky's still fairly high on the town list. Like, I get it, I've done similar things -- but it smells like scum theater when you take into account that Hopkirk has jokes on full blast everywhere else.

UNEXPECTED TWIST: Liking Shelly for scum. Someone (eyeballs sort of ricocheted off of who but it stuck with me) pointed out that shelly tunnels as scum, and I thought back to Shelly's town game. Yeah, she was only in it with me for one day, okay, sure, but she had TARGET LOCKED the entire day and it was a lot softer than the aggression she's showing here. I'm making this a VERY tentative read because that game was a while ago, I suck at reading shelly, and she has always struck me as an adaptive player. It very well could be the intensity of this player list... But I can't rule it being a good read out.

Murdercat is slightly towny. I'm going to call it a gutread even though it isn't, I just forgot the points I disliked. I'll grab them in a bit.

Same with Fidget but in reverse, I don't like Fidget's slot right now but I can't remember what pinged me. I guess I could also have them mixed up, this thread is a monster.

Finally: Don't know what to think of Toogaloo other than agreeing that this game is marching at too fast a pace for me to contribute as much as I want. Wanted to announce that mostly because I'm mad I can't read that slot -- can I get someone to explain a read on them? Town or scum, don't care, I just want points to fix my brain on and reread the ISO with, it's just sort of washing over me without anything to really grab onto right now.

I haven’t read pages of this game because there’s just too many new posts but considering that all 3 of Hopkirk, Shelley, Pooky want to kill Noraa, if you also now weakly sr Noraa, then do you think that all of these other slots are bussing her?

[Gloria Cleary]

wait, what

I was rereading, just got to the end, and Lapsa ... self-votes for no reason. And there's a chance its a reply to Toogaloo.

Uh. Well.

So, uh, had a Day today, still ongoing, but I am making some time to post real quick. I already disliked Lapsa's play, but now I feel like Lapsa is possibly game-throwing town? Consider their ISO. Game is boring, blah blah.

In other EXCITING NEWS, my reread has changed a bit of my reads list.

I'm now iffier on Noraa. She came back bright and I thought she might have a chance ... then back on the defensive. Yes, other players helped put her there but she didn't even struggle to ignore them the way I would expect of her personality -- straight from an attempt at a triumphant comeback to getting down in the mud again. This shift is more significant than I make it sound -- the break in personality puts her at weakly scum for me now.

Hopkirk is heading back towards scum -- there's too many posts that aren't remotely serious, and too many posts with inconsistent seriousness. The content seems intentionally obfuscated, but what I've seen I don't really like. Zdenek is town in what world? Hmmmm. Interesting to see the Hopkirk-Pooky-Tayl0r dust-up trio too, because I have scum on both Hopkirk and Pooky. The thing that pinged me is how intense Hopkirk got, the jokes forgotten, and yet at the end Pooky's still fairly high on the town list. Like, I get it, I've done similar things -- but it smells like scum theater when you take into account that Hopkirk has jokes on full blast everywhere else.

UNEXPECTED TWIST: Liking Shelly for scum. Someone (eyeballs sort of ricocheted off of who but it stuck with me) pointed out that shelly tunnels as scum, and I thought back to Shelly's town game. Yeah, she was only in it with me for one day, okay, sure, but she had TARGET LOCKED the entire day and it was a lot softer than the aggression she's showing here. I'm making this a VERY tentative read because that game was a while ago, I suck at reading shelly, and she has always struck me as an adaptive player. It very well could be the intensity of this player list... But I can't rule it being a good read out.

Murdercat is slightly towny. I'm going to call it a gutread even though it isn't, I just forgot the points I disliked. I'll grab them in a bit.

Same with Fidget but in reverse, I don't like Fidget's slot right now but I can't remember what pinged me. I guess I could also have them mixed up, this thread is a monster.

Finally: Don't know what to think of Toogaloo other than agreeing that this game is marching at too fast a pace for me to contribute as much as I want. Wanted to announce that mostly because I'm mad I can't read that slot -- can I get someone to explain a read on them? Town or scum, don't care, I just want points to fix my brain on and reread the ISO with, it's just sort of washing over me without anything to really grab onto right now.

I haven’t read pages of this game because there’s just too many new posts but considering that all 3 of Hopkirk, Shelley, Pooky want to kill Noraa, if you also now weakly sr Noraa, then do you think that all of these other slots are bussing her?

P.edit. forgot to include Zdenek in this. Yeah don’t really get the Hopkirk tr on that slot at all.

[Gloria Cleary]

Mushagana makes a lot of excuses. Is that par for the course with her? If it’s not, we should curse her for it.

Really really dislike this post.

Who is Titus?

Vault replacement.

Just ftr, Mush, LLD, Titus and Vax are all town and no one who is town should be sr any of them.

[Gloria Cleary]

Zdenek: I genuinely don’t know what you want me to say from that post. It just looks like you’re fence sitting.

Not fencesitting. I think you're failing to make me think your town since there are red letters in your roll pm.

Another icky Z post.

[Gloria Cleary]

VOTE: Noraa

VOTE: Lapsa

Why the self-vote? No idea what to make of this slot. Absolutely no meaningful content whatsoever.

[Gloria Cleary]

I believe this is standard lapsa play IIRC from long ago

So it’s entirely NAI then?

[Gloria Cleary]

So I’ve made it to page 27. I don’t understand why anyone would want Isis dead for her posts around then.

Okay, this isn’t bad.

[Gloria Cleary]

Yes indeed. Memory fails me again.

That admittedly diminishes the chances of both Pooky and Noraa being scum to damn near nothing (scum team would need absurd confidence or to be riddled with morons), because a quick skim doesn't show Pooky even HINTING at hitting the brakes until after LLD calls time. Call it flip dependent -- but I'm MUCH more likely to call Noraa town than Pooky here.

I think that scum is far more likely to bus than give the scroll to a teammate but I agree with you and not LLD about an uncontested wagon. Unless you get a slot that is pretty close to lockscum, which however bad Noraa’s takes/reads/etc. have been, she clearly isn’t, that slot is more likely to be town in general but I don’t play in a lot of larges, so that could affect things.

I don’t think that Noraa is obvscum here but I think it might take something close to a miracle from her to save her and based off of her own self-meta, that isn’t very likely to happen today, because according to her, her play/reads improve dramatically late game.

I ISO’d a Noraa town and scumgame and noticed that town!Noraa tends to be more jokey and casual compared to her scumgame where she was dead serious, so I think Tayl0r’s not wrong that the best way to sort Nora is if she has space to do that.

What is obviously problematic is that she has admitted to faking townslips in all of her scumgames, which is the mainreason I think she is in this situation.

Now, I almost never do that. If I derp as any alignment, it’s almost always legit but I actually had to look up the OP to realize thar there were actually 5 scum and not 4, eventhough with a playerlist this size, you might obviously expect that.

So that’s the problem for me. This is a very believable slip but with a player who admits to faking slips in every scumgame, how do you reconcile that?

[Gloria Cleary]

I'm willing to eat my hat

go eat your hat

If someone like FL had made this post, I’d completely dismiss it but it sounds super confident to me.

[Gloria Cleary]

This is a very believable slip but with a player who admits to faking slips in every scumgame, how do you reconcile that?

I mean, I purposefully faked slips in my first two town games because at the time I was encouraged to use my newb card as hard as possible so I commented that I *had* faked townslips in all my scum games(this is very clearly past tense)

Now that I'm over using the noob card(I legit cannot use it anymore cuz it just don't make sense with my 6? finished games), its really just my memory failing me or me not reading OPs.

Okay, I don’t really understand this, Why would you even fake slips as town? Not saying I don’t believe you but why? Did you think that was the only way to prevent you from being misexecuted? Because this reads to me like you intentionally chose to play scummy as town.

[Gloria Cleary]

I'm willing to eat my hat

go eat your hat

If someone like FL had made this post, I’d completely dismiss it but it sounds super confident to me.

I’m going to call it, I don’t think Noraa’s scum here.

[Gloria Cleary]

I'm willing to eat my hat

go eat your hat

If someone like FL had made this post, I’d completely dismiss it but it sounds super confident to me.

I’m going to call it, I don’t think Noraa’s scum here.

And if I’m right, scum is likely to be found in the slots eagerly pushing her.

This is particularly why Tayl0r and Noraa should never eat scrolls on the same day because I agree with Titus that she’s very likely town here but I can’t imagine scum!Tayl0r going out on a limb for town!Noraa, so if Noraa flips town, Tayl0r is almost certainly town as well.

[Gloria Cleary]

because I agree with Titus that she’s very likely town here but I can’t imagine scum!Tayl0r going out on a limb for town!Noraa,

This part ... doesn't make much sense to me @_@

Sorry, if I wasn’t clear. It makes absolutely no sense to me why scum!Tayl0r would try to save town!you. Better?

[Gloria Cleary]

it should take you like 2 minutes max

102 doesn't stand out to me on it's own, but there is maybe something to be said about it being inconsistent with the eventual 315 (as if panda should be giving you more slack based on the logic in 102). I agree with the stance in 897 and the other post about how we should just progress the game by flipping you so I don't really see anything off there. I guess I could see a "you are town" tone to it, but I've done the same thing because it isn't worth interacting with you if you are scum. So, given we are flipping you, it's better to treat you as conf town. I don't know if panda has that same logic, but you could see the same thing from my posts. So yeah I mean I have some feelings about the slot, but I don't think it is anything strong.

The problem is that I can understand your logic more because it can much MUCH later in the day. Toogeloo's came day 1 of day 1 like first 200 posts :/

This is a very believable slip but with a player who admits to faking slips in every scumgame, how do you reconcile that?

I mean, I purposefully faked slips in my first two town games because at the time I was encouraged to use my newb card as hard as possible so I commented that I *had* faked townslips in all my scum games(this is very clearly past tense)

Now that I'm over using the noob card(I legit cannot use it anymore cuz it just don't make sense with my 6? finished games), its really just my memory failing me or me not reading OPs.

Okay, I don’t really understand this, Why would you even fake slips as town? Not saying I don’t believe you but why? Did you think that was the only way to prevent you from being misexecuted? Because this reads to me like you intentionally chose to play scummy as town.

that was a typo, rip.
I meant to say scum games not town games. I've rolled scum an awful lot. My first 4 games were 3 scum and 1 town. I was encouraged in my first scum game to use my newb card HARD so that's exactly what I did in my first three scum games.

That makes a lot more sense. Well, assuming you’re town here, that meta is obviously coming back to bite you now.

[Gloria Cleary]

I’m going to call it, I don’t think Noraa’s scum here.

who's scum

or are you the type of person that likes to TR and solve through poe

In most cases, yes. Especially early game, unless you have slots that act over the top scummy.

Idk yet but my guess is one of the slots pushing Noraa.

There are certain kinds of things that are more likely to come from town than scum. I referenced FL because he made it a point to say one of those statements as scum that in every other game I’ve ever read, only town has made. It wasn’t this particular one but that’s more often than not a town indicative reaction to LLD’s post.

It goes to mindset, sure scum can obviously fake it but it has strong conviction which is difficult for scum - especially newbscum to fake.

The “go eat your hat” reaction she made to LLD’s post just read extremely confident to me.

[Gloria Cleary]

Speaking of which, gloria is your TR on me conditional or anything?
Also is it 100% meta based?
I'm in an interesting position rn where here is my thought process:

generally I hate when people give me free town passes when I am town but rn I'm getting heavily SRed and honestly like honestly speaking, I am desperate for someone to correctly read me. I am desperate.

I always am paranoid as town about getting pocketed but rn I seriously do not know what to think bc I constantly am feeling like in a way, I have no choice but to assume the people TRing me aren't scum TMI-ing because I am so desperate for support that I cannot see and do not wish to see a world where I'm just getting absolutely manipulated by scum. I hate that my thought process is this self centered and survivalistic but I feel extremely trapped where I dont feel safe with the people TRing me but I also dont feel safe with the people SRing me. I feel like wherever I go, I'm vulnerable and I'm scared that I am making the wrong choice.

Even when I am universally TRed, I can end up going 100% the wrong direction. Not to mention rn where I have a really hard time determining where I should be heading and I just feel like anyone that reaches out a hand to help me is just gonna get me paranoid and they'd have to do it in an extremely slick way for me to not literally go insane overthinking. It's at a point in the game where I literally wouldn't even be surprised if almost all of my TRs flipped green. I dont know how to describe how paranoid I have been this game but I am seriously so fucking paranoid.

someone give me advice please but be warned that its entirely possible that I get paranoid and start SRing and I'll apologize post game if that happens and you are town. If you are scum, u deserved it.

I understand that, I’m just really good on picking up on things most people miss. This post also sounds like you’re genuinely worried. I can spot fake pocketing accusations pretty easily, which scum often fake to get towncred. This otoh, sounds believable.

[Gloria Cleary]

Who is FL btw?

Flavor Leaf

[Gloria Cleary]

Gloria besides me being town, who else has reserved a spot on your TRs? cuz poe doesn't really work with only one TR :/

Noraa, is there some reason you aren’t reading all my posts? I haven’t made very many.

[Gloria Cleary]

I’ve now read over 50+ pages of this game but everytime, I believe I’m finally caught up, there’s at least 10 more. So what I think so far is Mush, LLD. Isis and Titus for town. I really don’t know who’s scum yet. I will probably be useless until D2 or 3, so I might just sheep Mush/Titus until I get some clarify.

Mushagana makes a lot of excuses. Is that par for the course with her? If it’s not, we should curse her for it.

Really really dislike this post.

Who is Titus?

Vault replacement.

Just ftr, Mush, LLD, Titus and Vax are all town and no one who is town should be sr any of them.

@Noraa

[Gloria Cleary]

I just threw a bunch of game advancing questions and look forward to those answers.

Murder has been promoted from a SR to a town lean. Reason : you keep reasoning with me. scum never has that patience. scum just pushes me until I die. Also you keep giving me advice and being like a small guardian angel in the back of my brain. its been greatly appreciated. I hated your tone and felt like I was being talked down to so the SR on you was more anger/emotionally fueled than it was logically(tho there was a lil of that too). Sometimes it just hit different when someone else spews logical shit to you. You've guided me and I feel like you think I am town and are trying to guide me back after I fell into a huge pit of despair. Scum wouldn't ever try to make me look better cuz the worse I look, the less town gets out of a mislim on me and the easier it is to mislim. Thank you I sincerely appreciate it.

Helping a slot become more readable almost never comes from scum, unless they have some agenda for doing that and I really can’t see what scum motivation he could possibly have for doing that. Scum want their pushes easy not harder. The more readable you become, the easier it becomes for more people to correctly parse you. The converse is also true, which scum obviously wouldn’t want.

The most annoying thing to happen to scum is either when their favoured push becomes more readable or when a scummy easily mislynchable slot gets replaced by a super townie one.

I’ve rarely seen scum do something like this for towncred.

[Gloria Cleary]

I just threw a bunch of game advancing questions and look forward to those answers.

Murder has been promoted from a SR to a town lean. Reason : you keep reasoning with me. scum never has that patience. scum just pushes me until I die. Also you keep giving me advice and being like a small guardian angel in the back of my brain. its been greatly appreciated. I hated your tone and felt like I was being talked down to so the SR on you was more anger/emotionally fueled than it was logically(tho there was a lil of that too). Sometimes it just hit different when someone else spews logical shit to you. You've guided me and I feel like you think I am town and are trying to guide me back after I fell into a huge pit of despair. Scum wouldn't ever try to make me look better cuz the worse I look, the less town gets out of a mislim on me and the easier it is to mislim. Thank you I sincerely appreciate it.

Helping a slot become more readable almost never comes from scum, unless they have some agenda for doing that and I really can’t see what scum motivation he could possibly have for doing that. Scum want their pushes easy not harder. The more readable you become, the easier it becomes for more people to correctly parse you. The converse is also true, which scum obviously WOULD want.

The most annoying thing to happen to scum is either when their favoured push becomes more readable or when a scummy easily mislynchable slot gets replaced by a super townie one.

I’ve rarely seen scum do something like this for towncred.

[Gloria Cleary]

I mean winning is secondary to having a fun game and emotionally you read super town to me. But like, we still have to flip you because I know you could and would do all this as scum

Can you link that/those games for me please? I just did a brief skim and my most notable take away was that town!Noraa was extremely jokey where as scum!Noraa seemed deadly serious. I mean if you could please find the specific quotes where she did that as scum, I have never played with her before. Thanks.

[Gloria Cleary]

I haven't played with scum Noraa but I've meta dived her a few times

Just went through her scum games and found a few posts that I think show her range. She is noticably more emotional this game to be fair, but I think Noraa is self aware enough to know that is a town trait of hers.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12129801

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12232252

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12154255

I chose these three because I think they show things I've seen from her this game: self-meta, discussion of her being upset about being a miselim (down to the phrasing: "going to be salty"), and high effort walls.

This has been extremely informative. These game just increase my confidence in Noraa!town if anything. No where near the emotional range we’re seeing here and no lengthy nuanced detailed readlists in ANY of those games.

Conclusion: Noraa is either town or totally switched up her meta for this game. If there’s an very consistent overriding scumtell especially for newbs, it’s this one: making detailed and nuanced reads is extremely difficult for scum to do but she did that here.

@Noraa could you link some of your towngames, especially any posts where you made detailed readslists? That would be super helpful.

[Gloria Cleary]

I don't agree that I was throwing shade at him. I was genuinely curious. I know that hopkirk generally knows what towncred is and how to get it and his switch in posting style is designed to get it.

....@Pooky confession: I don't think I can read taylor. But she seems to be try harding which is new and exciting to me.

tryhard taylor = scum-taylor

town taylor is a lurker who posts shitty dog pictures

Back later.

@Pooky: I'll think about it. Though, her questions seem rather focused(?) for scum.

she tends to lack focus when she's town

How many games have you played with town Taylor?

1 completed?
can't talk about ongoing

@Pooky, can you explain how you’re the Tayl0r meta expert after playing only one completed game with her? And now that I’ve in essence busted up your Noraa case, what does that do to your Tayl0r read?

[Gloria Cleary]

Taylor plays exactly like this as town. Hold up let me go find the link.

I think Taylor has gotten more confident and comfortable with doing whatever since this game but regardless, you can still see it in here:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

@Pooky, your sr on Tayl0r here really makes no sense.

[Gloria Cleary]

I have played more than 1 game with Taylor - her flip will speak for itself.

You haven't busted my noraa case

How many games have you played with town Taylor?

1 completed?
can't talk about ongoing

Explain this quote then.

[Gloria Cleary]

I have played more than 1 game with Taylor - her flip will speak for itself.

You haven't busted my noraa case

How many games have you played with town Taylor?

1 completed?
can't talk about ongoing

Explain this quote then.

Link me some Tayl0r scumgames so I understand what you’re basing your Tayl0r read on?

[Gloria Cleary]

do you see the part where it says can't talk about ongoing?

and its 2 completed now

What was her alignment in both of these games?

[Gloria Cleary]

I don't agree that I was throwing shade at him. I was genuinely curious. I know that hopkirk generally knows what towncred is and how to get it and his switch in posting style is designed to get it.

....@Pooky confession: I don't think I can read taylor. But she seems to be try harding which is new and exciting to me.

tryhard taylor = scum-taylor

town taylor is a lurker who posts shitty dog pictures

Back later.

@Pooky: I'll think about it. Though, her questions seem rather focused(?) for scum.

she tends to lack focus when she's town

How many games have you played with town Taylor?

1 completed?
can't talk about ongoing

@Pooky, can you explain how you’re the Tayl0r meta expert after playing only one completed game with her? And now that I’ve in essence busted up your Noraa case, what does that do to your Tayl0r read?

I have played more than 1 game with Taylor - her flip will speak for itself.

You haven't busted my noraa case

How many games have you played with town Taylor?

1 completed?
can't talk about ongoing

Explain this quote then.

and its 2 completed now

both town

i cant talk about ongoing maybe u should search her topics yourself?

So you have absolutely no clue as to what Tayl0r’s scum meta even is, so how do you think you remotely qualify for the role of Tayl0r meta expert?

[Gloria Cleary]

both town

i cant talk about ongoing maybe u should search her topics yourself?

Honestly, you should never ever even make this kind of suggestion.:/. Regardless of my read on you, I think you should never post such a thing in any game ever again.

[Gloria Cleary]

So you have absolutely no clue as to what Tayl0r’s scum meta even is, so how do you think you remotely qualify for the role of Tayl0r meta expert?

I am not allowed to talk about ongoing games because of site rules.

This is seriously sketch, you should not even go there.

[Gloria Cleary]

So you have absolutely no clue as to what Tayl0r’s scum meta even is, so how do you think you remotely qualify for the role of Tayl0r meta expert?

I am not allowed to talk about ongoing games because of site rules.

This is seriously sketch, you should not even go there.

At any rate, without a single COMPLETED Tayl0r scum!game to back it up, you cannot claim to be any kind of expert on Tayl0r scum meta.

[Gloria Cleary]

you're the one asking me for meta over and over

You’re insisting you know Tayl0r scum meta but all you can offer is what? If you claim to know Tayl0r scum meta, you need at least one COMPLETED scumgame to back up your Tayl0r META scumread.

And since I disagree with your read on Noraa and it makes absolutely no sense for scum!Tayl0r to go out on a limb like this for town!Noraa or are you going to argue that as well?

[Gloria Cleary]

So you have absolutely no clue as to what Tayl0r’s scum meta even is, so how do you think you remotely qualify for the role of Tayl0r meta expert?

I am not allowed to talk about ongoing games because of site rules.

This is seriously sketch, you should not even go there.

At any rate, without a single COMPLETED Tayl0r scum!game to back it up, you cannot claim to be any kind of expert on Tayl0r scum meta.

nope that's not how reality works

I know how logic works and I’d like to think that would matter to town!you.

[Gloria Cleary]

I don't think we are making a lot of progress. :3

Because you are sticking to knowing how scum!Tayl0r plays when you have no meta worth discussing about it. You have neither commented on my Noraa case and are digging in your heals on Tayl0r without any reason that makes any sense.

Why aren’t you reconsidering either your Noraa/Tayl0r reads?

[Gloria Cleary]

I don't agree that I was throwing shade at him. I was genuinely curious. I know that hopkirk generally knows what towncred is and how to get it and his switch in posting style is designed to get it.

....@Pooky confession: I don't think I can read taylor. But she seems to be try harding which is new and exciting to me.

tryhard taylor = scum-taylor

town taylor is a lurker who posts shitty dog pictures

Taylor playing awful indicates T!Scum more than T!town

You are pretty much contradicting yourselves with these posts.

[Gloria Cleary]

give me your strongest point for Noraa-town

I already did. She doesn’t make detailed nuanced readslists as scum unless you’re now going to tell me that she switched up her scumgame.

Also her emotional range is greater here but the first point is reason enough. Nothing is more difficult for scum - especially newbie scum to fake - then those kinds of readslists and unlike your non-existent metacase on Tayl0r, there actually is REAL one on Noraa.

[Gloria Cleary]

You are pretty much contradicting yourselves with these posts.

Nope

Tayl0r can’t be both tryharding scum and playing awful scum, so which one is she here?

[Gloria Cleary]

VOTE: Pooky

Sorry but I think you’re a scum teddy,

[Gloria Cleary]

I already did. She doesn’t make detailed nuanced readslists as scum unless you’re now going to tell me that she switched up her scumgame.

Also her emotional range is greater here but the first point is reason enough. Nothing is more difficult for scum - especially newbie scum to fake - then those kinds of readslists and unlike your non-existent metacase on Tayl0r, there actually is REAL one on Noraa.

Do you think Noraa is unwilling to put in the effort to avoid a D1 elim? She cares enough about mafia to play 9 games at once and posts 80+ times a day. She's clearly intelligent and willing to learn. If she's scum I'm sure she has people in the scum team willing to coach her.

She's clearly very high WIM. Why would this suggest she would be unwilling to put the effort into it to play her heart out if she's scum here?

Why aren’t you addressing my point about the nuanced detailed readslists - something she didn’t do in ANY of the scumgames MC linked?

How does that not even give you even slight pause?

[Gloria Cleary]

Tayl0r can’t be both tryharding scum and playing awful scum, so which one is she here?

I have read more games of taylor and played more with taylor than you have.

Playing awful and lurking is not equivalent

.

You are pretty much contradicting yourselves with these posts.

Nope

Tayl0r can’t be both tryharding scum and playing awful scum, so which one is she here?

I never said “lurking”, I said “tryharding”.

[Gloria Cleary]

Tayl0r can’t be both tryharding scum and playing awful scum, so which one is she here?

I have read more games of taylor and played more with taylor than you have.

Playing awful and lurking is not equivalent

.

You are pretty much contradicting yourselves with these posts.

Nope

Tayl0r can’t be both tryharding scum and playing awful scum, so which one is she here?

I never said “lurking”, I said “tryharding”.

You have also never played with scum!her.

[Gloria Cleary]

I already did. She doesn’t make detailed nuanced readslists as scum unless you’re now going to tell me that she switched up her scumgame.

Also her emotional range is greater here but the first point is reason enough. Nothing is more difficult for scum - especially newbie scum to fake - then those kinds of readslists and unlike your non-existent metacase on Tayl0r, there actually is REAL one on Noraa.

Do you think Noraa is unwilling to put in the effort to avoid a D1 elim? She cares enough about mafia to play 9 games at once and posts 80+ times a day. She's clearly intelligent and willing to learn. If she's scum I'm sure she has people in the scum team willing to coach her.

She's clearly very high WIM. Why would this suggest she would be unwilling to put the effort into it to play her heart out if she's scum here?

Why aren’t you addressing my point about the nuanced detailed readslists - something she didn’t do in ANY of the scumgames MC linked?

How does that not even give you even slight pause?

Why aren’t you addressing my point about the nuanced detailed readslists - something she didn’t do in ANY of the scumgames MC linked?

How does that not even give you even slight pause?

because it's not a very strong point.

Scum can have nuance in their reads lists too.

Her actions in reaction to the initial wagon are much more damning.

The point is that she didn’t do that in any of her scumgames and it is an extremely valid point. Making detailed nuanced readslists is the most difficult thing for scum to do, especially newbscum. You’re argument is soley based on having a bad reaction to her wagon? Are you going to seriously argue that town never does that?

In one of my early games, I practically freaked out over two non-serious RvS votes on me in a span of under two hours. It’s almost a miracle I wasn’t misexecuted for that.

[Gloria Cleary]

why can't someone who is trying hard also be playing awful? Trying hard does not equal good play.

You have also never played with scum!her.

are you just trying to bait me at this point? :3

Because you’re making no sense.

[Gloria Cleary]

the wagon on noraa is not just based off her terrible reaction

Why aren’t you addressing any of my points and why aren’t you even questioning your read on her.

So tell me what makes Noraa scum here? I think that making several detailed nuanced readslists - something she has never done as scum plus the very clear greater emotional range should be more than enough to make you question that read but instead you just keep double downing it.

Yes, I know you already mentioned the fake townslip thing but why couldn’t she also have done that as town?

[Gloria Cleary]

Because you’re making no sense.

I'm going to stop responding to this line of questioning because you've clearly not read nearly as many taylor games as I have :3

2 are completed towngames and the others are ongoing, but so no flips. That’s why I say you’re not making sense.

[Gloria Cleary]

(phoneposting so only posting adjustments to the nominal thread, not workings)

Yeah, I don't want to lethal noraa at this point.
Pooky/Taylor I read as TvT.

(Unowen/Fidget/Toogeloo/Bell) - anyone want to make a wagon while we have time?

Really don’t want to hand Noraa the scroll like ever.

They’ve given us everything we need to read them correctly if we still can’t see that they’re town this game than this town sucks.

If you no longer want to kill Noraa then don’t you think these posts point to Bell town?

[Gloria Cleary]

2 are completed towngames and the others are ongoing, but so no flips. That’s why I say you’re not making sense.

just stop talking to me about this if you can't take the time to look up things

Look up what exactly?

You really need to stop saying this for your own good and I’m not talking about the game. You seriously need to cease any discussion, even if it’s just

encouraging

people to read any ongoing games.

You can’t claim you have scum meta unless you can link me a single sciumgame where she’s playing similar to this.

[Gloria Cleary]

how many taylor games have you read?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34760

Alright, here’s a scumgame where she is actually tryharding. I don’t think she’s playing similarly at all here. Still haven’t found any “jumping in front of moving train” type of games yet though.

[Gloria Cleary]

how many taylor games have you read?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34760

Alright, here’s a scumgame where she is actually tryharding. I don’t think she’s playing similarly at all here. Still haven’t found any “jumping in front of moving train” type of games yet though.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34760

Here’s a towngame where she was TPR and she’s doing a lot.

[Gloria Cleary]

do you think her play this game is closer to the scum game or her town game?

why?

I’d say based on that scumgame and the only completed one I could find, I’d say town. The main difference I could see between those two games is that scum!Tayl0r while ALSO tryharding, somewhat resembles a bit of a bot, very little emotion, so there’s a kind of artificiality about it, where as town!Tayl0r either isn’t or if she is, she gets fiery. So, she reads kind of disconnected in the scumgame I linked. I think her frustration at LLD read as sincere to me and she expressed similar thoughts to Mush in that game she referenced which I skimmed but can’t recall.

@Tayl0r, which one is the game you played with Mush where her playstyle in that game frustrated you?

Who are your other scumreads besides Tayl0r, Noraa? Bell and who else?

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler: They knew they didn't have long. They knew as soon as they'd laid eyes upon the strange runes that the scroll held. Still, that hadn't prepared them for how death would call... Toogeloo was in a deep slumber one night when he heard a phone ringing downstairs... he was on the ground floor. This was slightly alarming, but Toogeloo didn't have much longer to think about it, as a eldritch horror of a Panda appeared from a dark portal in front of him, and bit his head off. He was... Spoiler: Town Vaxkiller was harpooned by his lamp after he failed to forward the email he received to 10 others. A classic error. He was... Spoiler: Town Hopkirk awoke an ancient evil as he went robbing an old Burial Tomb. Not sure why, but maybe he just went for it since he knew he didn't have long left. He was mummified. He was... Spoiler: Town

I’m back now and I was right on Vax, LLD was wrong on Hopkirk, so you people need to listen to me on Noraa.

[Gloria Cleary]

fred you're online come here

i consider this to be ellitelling btw

Ellitelling is more often than not unreliable especially in a game where it’s almost impossible to ever catch up. I didn’t even bother to read the 50++ pages since I got back.

I have no clue as to his alignment but ellitelling in a game like this, absolutely won’t help us determine it.

[Gloria Cleary]

I understand why Pooky suspects Tayl0r but I think that fiery Tayl0r is more likely than rand to be town and bot Tayl0r, more likely to be scum.

I’ve never played with Hopkirk, how reliable are his reads in general? He’s right on me and obviously was wrong on Toog and Vax.

I still think bell is town for mindmelding with me on Noraa. I still think Titus is town despite her being wrong on Noraa.

[Gloria Cleary]

VOTE: Pooky

what part of my last few posts sounded like "please go shitpost some more and further clog the thread with irrelevant bullshit" i swear to fuck and YES i recognize im contributing to this HIDEOUS NIGHTMARE but if in the end i make these hyperactive shitposters do something that helps us sort through this mess i think we can all call it a win

...

Ahem.

Go do something /useful/.

USEFUL.

I wouldn't have made such a post, but, yeah, I was secretly annoyed at such a high posting rate.

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

what were you drinking shelly?

Bottle of whiskey

straight?

what type of whiskey?

+1

Yeah, have to agree with this. Normally, this type of thing really isn’t an issue but in this game, the less spam the better.

[Gloria Cleary]

Tayl0r's reads are trash too. But she ISO'd Theta and found that Theta had been townreading Toog all along. I trust she wouldn't lie about something so easily disproven. For me, that's work I don't need to do on Theta and makes Theta likely to be scum regardless of Tayl0r's alignment.

Taylor was not talking about Toogeloo, the only mention from Theta that I could find regarding alignment was that they were "generally suspicious".

for those who see theta suddenly in town after me just questioning theta and go ????
theta complaining that those people died pinged me, so i checked the iso. t

heta did townread them and went out of his way to stick up for them.

its not my most confident townbin ever, but im satisfied for now. im pretty confident that this game is solvedish. or at least that this is a winning PoE.

Please quote where you believe that happens.

go to theta's iso, search for the names of those who flipped.

why did that happen
why did vax and hopkirk die

VOTE: adorable

same reasons as before
though honestly i could also go for noraa

Tayl0r’s right and dead town Isis/Vax also tr that slot.

[Gloria Cleary]

Are you actually scumreading Theta Alpine?

[Gloria Cleary]

Tayl0r’s right and dead town Isis/Vax also tr that slot.

Aren't you quoting the post that pinged Taylor in the first place?
I town lean Theta but Isis saying Theta's town is not the same as Theta saying Isis is town.

for those who see theta suddenly in town after me just questioning theta and go ????
theta complaining that those people died pinged me, so i checked the iso. theta did townread them and went out of his way to stick up for them. its not my most confident townbin ever, but im satisfied for now. im pretty confident that this game is solvedish. or at least that this is a winning PoE.

I don’t understand your point and I won’t even pretend to have read a majority of this game. Isis/Vax is dead town who tr Theta and Tayl0r also tr Isis and is also tr Theta. I can look through Tayl0r’s ISO where she hard trs Isis if you like?

[Gloria Cleary]

Still Vax replaced Isis. ... if that's relevant.

it is because isis was town

[Gloria Cleary]

I don’t understand your point and I won’t even pretend to have read a majority of this game. Isis/Vax is dead town who tr Theta and Tayl0r also tr Isis and is also tr Theta. I can look through Tayl0r’s ISO where she hard trs Isis if you like?

No I know that. It's this bit which I am asking about:

for those who see theta suddenly in town after me just questioning theta and go ????
theta complaining that those people died pinged me, so i checked the iso.

theta did townread them and went out of his way to stick up for them.

its not my most confident townbin ever, but im satisfied for now. im pretty confident that this game is solvedish. or at least that this is a winning PoE.

She’s literally saying “it’s not my most confident townbin ever but [that she’s] satisfied for now” or am I missing something here?

[Gloria Cleary]

Don't lethal these people
Shelly
LAdy
Mush
MURDERCAT
Adorable
Gloria

I'd avoid lethaling but my read is weaker
PookyTheMagicalBear
Tayl0r Swift

I really don’t understand the slots that can’t read me yet when clearly Hopkirk could.

[Gloria Cleary]

Fidget what's ur read on me again? it seems you keep throwing shade on me for bad reasons, go back and then suddenly "realize" that I didn't say whatever u accused me of.

Disagree, I think most of the shade that has been thrown your way this game has been justified. You're one scummy boi.

I don't really know what you're referring to with the second sentence. You are guilty of everything I have ever pointed out about you, as well as most of what everyone else has said.

The only thing that's changing is my thoughts about whether or not you're scum. I would say my differing opinion as of late mostly resulted from A.) changing my mind about your WIM being scummy and B.) Shelly's read on you weirding me out

kill taylor

she will kill me

i will kill noraa

that's like half the top 5 gone

The issue with this plan is that we're supposed to use the scroll to kill scum.

Noraa I think you may have missed this.

Are you saying you hard tr Noraa now?

[Gloria Cleary]

She’s literally saying “it’s not my most confident townbin ever but [that she’s] satisfied for now” or am I missing something here?

Either you are or I am.

The point is that Taylor was exaggerating, unless I missed something which is possible but I guess unlikely now from the lack of response. It's debatable on Hopkirk (I interpreted 1797 as a rejection of a Hopkirk townread) but there's no mention or defense of a Vax town read.

Sadly, it's not as simple as "making stuff up = scum" but I still think it's worth calling out in case the response is AI.

Maybe I’m still not getting it then? because what I got out of it was that Tayl0r hards trs Isisi who hard tr Theta, so beyond that, I’m not following.

[Gloria Cleary]

Maybe I’m still not getting it then? because what I got out of it was that Tayl0r hards trs Isisi who hard tr Theta, so beyond that, I’m not following.

Taylor said she thought Theta complaining about the deaths of Vax and Hopkirk was suspicious. Presumably because complaining about someone's death after the fact is a way for scum to reposition themselves on the right side of an argument.

Taylor then said that she no longer found that suspicious, because when she searched Theta's ISO she found that Theta did in fact "town read and stick up for" both Vax and Hopkirk, showing that Theta was being consistent in her thoughts.

I then reviewed Theta's ISO. Hopkirk there's some leeway but it's clear to me that Theta did not "town read and stick up for" Vax at any point.

Therefore Taylor either misinterpreted something, I missed something or Taylor was lying about Theta town reading Vax.

Did she ever give any read on Isis?

[Gloria Cleary]

still exists but uno is like 80% scum and you're 75%

still want you to do my ordering tho

Any reasons?

@Fred, why no comment on Shelley’s ordering request?

[Gloria Cleary]

my read on isis was that i could not read isis
i do not remember what read i gave vaxkiller if any
but it definitely was not a slot that should have been killed

my read on hopkirk was that i could not see noraa and hopkirk being scum together
and thus after i changed my read on noraa to a scum read that would imply my read on hopkirk became a town read
even if i never explicitly mentioned it

@UNOwen

[Gloria Cleary]

Noraa's play has been confusing me and that 180 she did earlier on me when Toogeloo was holding the scroll was sus. Her post on #3942 about Hopkirk also looked like scum shading him. So from what I gathered, scum Noraa likes to put pressure on players and she has been doing that in this game and

town Noraa doesn't put pressure

.

VOTE: Noraa

Seriously, wtf kind of meta read is this? What townie ever plays the way you’re suggesting? That’s practically anti-wincon.

[Gloria Cleary]

still exists but uno is like 80% scum and you're 75%

still want you to do my ordering tho

Any reasons?

@Fred, why no comment on Shelley’s ordering request?

I didn't actually understand what that meant.

I interpreted it as she was requesting an ordered readslist on those slots.

[Gloria Cleary]

Made a big ass post.
Decided I'd rather just ask a question.
@Everyone: What do you think of Flea's Iso?

Null for me, nothing about it pings town but they also seem to have a relaxed vibe so really can’t tell atp.

[Gloria Cleary]

I feel like I have about a coin flip's chance of hitting scum at the moment if I go for the boring "shoot inside {Gloria/Theta/Fred/Titus/UNOwen/Flea/Lapsa}" plan. You probably got 3 or 4 in there.

Or I could shoot shellyc or Taylor, which would take a lot more forethought to do because there are no guarantees there.

How am I even in your PoE? Have you not been reading any of my posts? This looks kind of bad because your list is composed of primarily low activity slots.

I’d shoot you before either of them because your reads are just lazy. You don’t look like you’re actually trying to solve people just going along with consensus reads (other than you) + low activity slots. I was the one who first argued for both Noraa and Bell town and you were one of the strongest proponents of the kill Noraa brigade.

Also, unlike you, I can see Shelley’s progression and I think Pooky’s wrong about Tayl0r. As for Titus, that’s yet another really suspicious read and one of the slots I had a strong tr on.

There is pretty much no rhyme or reason to this list. You’re not actually sorting anyone on it. If I ever get the scroll, I’m probably passing it to you.


VOTE: Fidget

[Gloria Cleary]

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

You know, I would probably not have posted anything at all since I replaced in precisely because I don't have any game advancing content if it weren't for the fact that I must post every 36 hours or receive a prod. You know why I don't have any game advancing content? I couldn't finish reading the thread and have no idea what is going on when I am forced to skip several pages of posts to keep up.

Now, if you will excuse me

, I have some more to read.

I actually read a game where scum used this exact phrase, except it wasn’t about reading but similarily lame. “The now if you’ll excuse me . . . . “ reads like don’t

vote

bug me while I going to sound lamisty by doing really townie looking things.

[Gloria Cleary]

Can we please kill Fred first and argue over who to kill after that.

Not opposed. I’m happy that my reads have been pretty good this game. Only thing with Fidget is that if she flips scum, we could confitown Shelley, since there’s no world ever that those two are linked but yeah Fred is pretty scummy.

[Gloria Cleary]

gloria is probtown by aligning with me when scum cannot afford to bus fred/fidget if they're scum

vote fred I'll join you

I’m not sure I understand this, we haven’t had any scumflips yet but I’m down for either of those two.

[Gloria Cleary]

I have read almost none of your posts Gloria

But you’d still want to kill me. How exactly are you town here?

Oh and Shelley, another slot you’d like to kill actually has, because she’s probably town.

You’re just really lucky that Fred is even scummier than you.

[Gloria Cleary]

VOTE: Fred

but Fidget next please.

[Gloria Cleary]

Not opposed. I’m happy that my reads have been pretty good this game. Only thing with Fidget is that if she flips scum, we could confitown Shelley, since there’s no world ever that those two are linked but yeah Fred is pretty scummy.

gloria when did you start SRing fred? and why are they your backup option instead of fidget being your main?

fred why are you saying blatantly obvious things and having no thoughts of your own.

I do know I don't have thoughts of my own but I don't know why.

As for why I am stating blatantly obvious things, they are sometimes not as blatantly obvious as you would think. Literally everything I have taken note of isn't blatantly obvious to me. I had to put in actual effort to notice them. Let me remind you this game is over 4000 posts long, so, even the existence of a post isn't blatantly obvious and is more like a needle in a haystack or ice molecules within a stone.

I do.

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

You know, I would probably not have posted anything at all since I replaced in precisely because I don't have any game advancing content if it weren't for the fact that I must post every 36 hours or receive a prod. You know why I don't have any game advancing content? I couldn't finish reading the thread and have no idea what is going on when I am forced to skip several pages of posts to keep up.

Now, if you will excuse me

, I have some more to read.

I actually read a game where scum used this exact phrase, except it wasn’t about reading but similarily lame. “The now if you’ll excuse me . . . . “ reads like don’t

vote

bug me while I going to sound lamisty by doing really townie looking things.

Fred sounds like he’s just making excuses not to do anything because Fidget is putting more effort into trying to affect the game but not in a protown kind of way, so I see her as more dangerous if that makes any sense.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

Not opposed. I’m happy that my reads have been pretty good this game. Only thing with Fidget is that if she flips scum, we could confitown Shelley, since there’s no world ever that those two are linked but yeah Fred is pretty scummy.

gloria when did you start SRing fred? and why are they your backup option instead of fidget being your main?

fred why are you saying blatantly obvious things and having no thoughts of your own.

I do know I don't have thoughts of my own but I don't know why.

As for why I am stating blatantly obvious things, they are sometimes not as blatantly obvious as you would think. Literally everything I have taken note of isn't blatantly obvious to me. I had to put in actual effort to notice them. Let me remind you this game is over 4000 posts long, so, even the existence of a post isn't blatantly obvious and is more like a needle in a haystack or ice molecules within a stone.

I do.

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

You know, I would probably not have posted anything at all since I replaced in precisely because I don't have any game advancing content if it weren't for the fact that I must post every 36 hours or receive a prod. You know why I don't have any game advancing content? I couldn't finish reading the thread and have no idea what is going on when I am forced to skip several pages of posts to keep up.

Now, if you will excuse me

, I have some more to read.

I actually read a game where scum used this exact phrase, except it wasn’t about reading but similarily lame. “The now if you’ll excuse me . . . . “ reads like don’t

vote

bug me while I going to sound lamisty by doing really townie looking things.

Fred sounds like he’s just making excuses not to do anything because Fidget is putting more effort into trying to affect the game but not in a protown kind of way, so I see her as more dangerous if that makes any sense.

That and I hard tr bell and am mindmelding with him on reads like Noraa for example.

[Gloria Cleary]

I have read almost none of your posts Gloria

But you’d still want to kill me. How exactly are you town here?

Oh and Shelley, another slot you’d like to kill actually has, because she’s probably town.

You’re just really lucky that Fred is even scummier than you.

I don't want to kill you. I want to kill scum within that group of ~8ish people, which includes you. I have fallen hopelessly behind, so my plan is to identify a really good candidate in there before my inevitable demise. That group consists largely of people whose posts I just haven't seen because they weren't around when I was. Shelly/Tayl0r is the group I'm actively paranoid of.

But why would you even have a slot in your PoE who’s posts you just admitted to not reading? I don’t understand how that comes from a town mindset?

You shouldn’t have anyone in your PoE who’s posts you haven’t read.

Alright well, tell me why then. What are the reasons you’re paranoid on those two slots? I do have to give you some props for finally coming around on Noraa but that’s what I didn’t get, how you hard tr Noraa and have me in your PoE. So, it looked to me that you were targeting me for being a low activity slot. Maybe I’m wrong on you then?

[Gloria Cleary]

For what it's worth I like your comments on Noraa's emotional range being outside of what she's capable as when scum. Spat with Pooky.. I think you were correct in the argument but I didn't draw Pooky!scum from it. His interesting Taylor read probably comes from town. Did you come to the conclusion that Pooky was town after a while? Or am I interpreting this incorrectly?

fred you're online come here

i consider this to be ellitelling btw

Ellitelling is more often than not unreliable especially in a game where it’s almost impossible to ever catch up. I didn’t even bother to read the 50++ pages since I got back.

I have no clue as to his alignment but ellitelling in a game like this, absolutely won’t help us determine it.

Oh so you do understand.

You do realize that I've read hardly anything from the period where you've been an active poster, right? And I mainly inhabited the first 50 pages where you weren't here? Or have I just been oblivious to you? I am sorry if so.

I suppose I shouldn’t have assumed that you had read my posts. I was V/LA so it might have gotten misconstrued as lurking. I just thought you were targeting lurkers and low activity slots. I probably haven’t read significant portions of this game. That’s obviously not a problem with either Fred/Zednet obviously.

[Gloria Cleary]

I mean Fred/Zdenek’s ISOs. There’s very little content and I don’t understand why Hopkirk had him as a tr but he was wrong on Toog and obvtown Vax/Isis.

[Gloria Cleary]

well i didnt read the pedits yeah.

why do you think fidget is scummier than fred a few posts earlier and have now changed your mind?

I explained it all in 4362. I could possibly be wrong on Fidget but I think Fred is a pretty obvious wolf. His predecessor also had a really scummy post.

[Gloria Cleary]

Zdenek: I genuinely don’t know what you want me to say from that post. It just looks like you’re fence sitting.

Not fencesitting. I think you're failing to make me think your town since there are red letters in your roll pm.

Like this response to bell is over the top scummy. Deflection and no attempt to respond to his post at all.

[Gloria Cleary]

@Fidget, I forgot to respond to your Pooky question. Yeah, I’m reading his Tayl0r push as more deathtunnelling then scum pursuing a miselim.

I don’t think that scum!Pooky would continue to tunnel Tayl0r this confidently or single mindedly as scum. That said, by continuing to rail “Tayl0r is scum!” isn’t going to convince anyone of anything, so Fred - irrespective of alignment - isn’t wrong about Pooky needing to make some kind of a case against her because rn. I’m reading it as TvT.

Also, I skimmed The Trials, so I understand where his “speeding train” thing is based from, which I didn’t when I initially voted him.

I think she’s making too many trs + her reaction to LLD, which makes me lean town on her but I’d need to see a convincing case to consider changing that read.

[Gloria Cleary]

I'm all for targeting the more "dangerous" slot first! Why I'm voting shelly.

Maybe not with my scroll shot, though. I don't know if I have the courage, because if I throw it at taylor or shelly and they're green, I feel at least 3-5 people are gonna go "They were obvtown dumbass". Gotta protect my feelings.

..that's a lame way to play. Shouldn't talk myself down like that. I actually did that with a dayvig shot in a game a while back! Stupid me

But I switched to Fred and if you’re town here, you should do the same.

[Gloria Cleary]

@Fidget, I forgot to respond to your Pooky question. Yeah, I’m reading his Tayl0r push as more deathtunnelling then scum pursuing a miselim.

I don’t think that scum!Pooky would continue to tunnel Tayl0r this confidently or single mindedly as scum. That said, by continuing to rail “Tayl0r is scum!” isn’t going to convince anyone of anything, so Fred - irrespective of alignment - isn’t wrong about Pooky needing to make some kind of a case against her because rn. I’m reading it as TvT.

Very nice

Also, I skimmed The Trials, so I understand where his “speeding train” thing is based from, which I didn’t when I initially voted him.

I think she’s making too many trs + her reaction to LLD, which makes me lean town on her but I’d need to see a convincing case to consider changing that read.

That's understandable, I felt that originally with regards to her reaction.

Did Taylor have a bias against townreads in that game? Hm.

I only skimmed it. She hard WK’d Noraa in that game too but she didn’t do that at all in Noir, so it’s not typical of her scum meta like he was alledging. Based on what other people have posted, I get the impression that white knighting is NAI for Tayl0r but it’s more her number of trs she’s making plus her interactions with LLD that make me think she’s town.

Town!Tayl0r can get pretty emotional and I don’t see how her making so many trs is furthering a scum agenda but I obviously can’t use her Noraa defense as a reason to to tr her.

[Gloria Cleary]

Thanks Pooky I like you too

All it takes is hitting scum with the first bounce, then getting a clutch third bounce to pull this game back in town's sights. I guess accepting that I might get the scroll isn't very helpful to that strategy, though, so I'm part of that apathy problem.

I think we're probably not getting a first bounce scum until there are less scum around. Unless there's just scum that's been obvscum and they opt to bus that person. I think turning a blind eye to that slot would be more beneficial to them, though.

pedit: I sincerely hope Fred is that obvscum. From what I recall I liked most of the people voting him but let me check.

[5] Fredrick A Campbell: Bell, MUSHSHAGANA, PookyTheMagicalBear, shellyc, Flea The Magician

(+ I assume Gloria)

Okay, okay heavy town presence early I think, at least. Could definitely work.

I think Fred has a better than rand chance of flipping scum but if we’re wrong, we can still hopefully get him to pass the scroll to scum but I really think he’s probably flipping scum. Town gives reasons for whatever they view as their shortcomings in solving a game but they soldier on despite any obstacles: scum gets bogged down with excuses and hides behind them as a reason for not doing anything useful.

[Gloria Cleary]

still exists but uno is like 80% scum and you're 75%

still want you to do my ordering tho

Any reasons?

@Fred, why no comment on Shelley’s ordering request?

I didn't actually understand what that meant.

I interpreted it as she was requesting an ordered readslist on those slots.

I misinterpreted that post as shellyc asking me to order her some food

as I misinterpreted the part of this post where she asks me to make this readlist as her own readlist. I'll get to work on it now.

Fred is very entertaining irrespective of alignment.

[Gloria Cleary]

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

I don't really care if you mind this or not, but I have another readlist that reflects what I am thinking better than your random set of five that you just chose.

Town to scum:
MUSHSHAGANA, Gloria Cleary, Fidget, all players not on this list (null), Tayl0r Swift, Noraa

I actually like this post but why are Tayl0r and especially Noraa scum?

So, can I take it then, that bell and theta are null reads for you?

UNVOTE:

I’m going to unvote this for now.

[Gloria Cleary]

And how did you reach that conclusion?

well i started by reading your posts, and then i thought about it real hard for about 3 seconds

do you like this answer from TSwift Fred?

Is it something you can see a town player saying or does it look more like scum who has no idea how to back up their fake thoughts?

I actually didn't like it, but I made a decision to [REDACTED FOR NOW TILL THE PLAN IS ENACTED OR CANCELLED].

Meanwhile, I actually can see this coming from a town player, which is a reason why I decided to not push Tayl0r Swift on it. However, in addition to this instance, I have taken note of this second instance and am mildly scumreading her.

@Tayl0r, why can’t you give reasons? You have to know that doesn’t look good, right?

[Gloria Cleary]

Actually, Gloria, I seriously thought that was what she meant and it didn't make sense to me, but I couldn't make better sense of it.

Well, if you ever order for me, you can’t go wrong with sushi.

(sorry MUSH, couldn’t resist).

[Gloria Cleary]

Could someone tell me why they are townreading Noraa or Tayl0r Swift? I am absolutely not.

Noraa’s emotional range is much greater here than in any of her scumgames + she’s making detailed, nuanced readslists. She didn’t do that in ANY of her scumgames and here, she’s doing that like it’s going out of style almost.

So, either Noraa’s suddenly switched up her scum meta or she’s town. The readslist also reads super genuine and not coached, so I’m obviously a lot more confident on Noraa!town than Tayl0r, especially after skimming The Trials but I still think it could be playstyle.

I’ve already explained Tayl0r but she should definitely be able to give reasons for that read, I did.

[Gloria Cleary]

[quote="In Insert quotation of post 4395 here

I actually like this post but why are Tayl0r and especially Noraa scum?

So, can I take it then, that bell and theta are null reads for you?

UNVOTE:

I’m going to unvote this for now.

Yeah, you could and they are. I think Noraa is scum because of how she reacted to everyone scumreading her for the townslip. As for Tayl0r Swift, I just dislike their tendency to evade answering questions.

My issue with that, is I’d have been miselimed in many of my past games based on that. In one of my early games (warning! repeat post), I almost got elimed in the span of 2 hours for flipping out over 2 joke rvs votes. I kid you not. So, reactions to being scumread, unless they clearly contradict prior meta are NAI to me. Otoh, the whole readslist thing is HUGE, because it’s one of the absolute hardest things to ever fake well as scum, especially for a newbie player. And the sheer absence of any readslists in any of her scumgames, I think is really telling.

Plus, there was the “go eat your hat” response to LLD which just sounds too over the top confident to have come from scum!Noraa.

[Gloria Cleary]

Taylor wagon is not gonna go thru today. No fucking way.

I still think Tayl0r is town here but if I’m wrong, Noraa definitely doesn’t look like a buddy.

[Gloria Cleary]

I'm willing to eat my hat

go eat your hat

Found it, finally.

This post in itself is highly town indicative, unless you’re a Flavor Leaf or a RadiantCowbells.

[Gloria Cleary]

Gloria why do you think Fred is town?

I don't think I actually care for your reasoning and just want to slap you down because I want Fred eliminated.

I don't think that's a good place to start from when interacting with a player.

Well, let me recenter myself.

I don't see what you could possibly like from his recent posts.

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

I don't really care if you mind this or not, but I have another readlist that reflects what I am thinking better than your random set of five that you just chose.

Town to scum:
MUSHSHAGANA, Gloria Cleary, Fidget, all players not on this list (null), Tayl0r Swift, Noraa

I actually like this post but why are Tayl0r and especially Noraa scum?

So, can I take it then, that bell and theta are null reads for you?

UNVOTE:

I’m going to unvote this for now.

?????

[Gloria Cleary]

Oh holy shit he doesn't have LLD as a town read.

That's true.

How do you not townread at least one of them?

[Gloria Cleary]

Reading enough of the Noraa wagon to see her reaction and conclude it is scummy but not developing a corresponding LLD town read (or at least lean) does not sound terribly likely.

I have to agree with this. Unless you think LLD and Noraa performed the best scum theatre on record, it’s very clear that they could never be buddies in this game, so I totally don’t understand your thought process. @Fred?

@Bell, if all of those posts were directed at me, then I think you completely misread my posts. It was Noraa, who I have a very confident townread on, not Fred.

All I said was that I liked one post and was temporarily unvoting him. All that means is that I’m not voting him right now. I still think he’s kind of scummy especially if he doesn’t have either one as a townread because I can’t see how that makes any sense.

[Gloria Cleary]

@Tayl0r, why can’t you give reasons? You have to know that doesn’t look good, right?

i did give reasons. people who are trying to discredit me are quoting a post where i was being sassy.

also this fred wagon is ridiculous. the people on the fred wagon prove that fred is town 90%

Bell will probably yell at me for this but I liked his tone. He didn’t come off as being particularly defensive. Also, Hopkirk had him as a townread but he also had toog and Vax as scumreads but I generally don’t like to keep my vote on a slot unless I either feel super confident on it or it’s very close to deadline and it isn’t close to deadline, so I don’t understand why I’m getting practically jumped on for unvoting.

We’ve already seen that being done to Noraa, so I’m naturally leery when too many people jump on a slot unless I’m super confident it’s flipping scum and I’m currently null on Fred.

[Gloria Cleary]

Could someone tell me why they are townreading Noraa or Tayl0r Swift? I am absolutely not.

Noraa’s emotional range is much greater here than in any of her scumgames + she’s making detailed, nuanced readslists. She didn’t do that in ANY of her scumgames and here, she’s doing that like it’s going out of style almost.

So, either Noraa’s suddenly switched up her scum meta or she’s town. The readslist also reads super genuine and not coached, so I’m obviously a lot more confident on Noraa!town than Tayl0r, especially after skimming The Trials but I still think it could be playstyle.

I’ve already explained Tayl0r but she should definitely be able to give reasons for that read, I did.

I have had some bad experience with meta and most of the time I don't focus on meta anymore. In my last micro game I played someone was getting town read for meta and that player turned out to be scum. I was getting scum read for meta and I was town. I have said earlier on why I scum read Noraa. That read list Noraa made when she put me as newbtown gave me a bit of a pause and I started wondering maybe Noraa could be town and if she was scum, I would have assumed she would continue on trying to get me eliminated and then later she did a 180 on me. On my first completed scum game I also made a read list and I didn't get coached. Noraa's play really has been confusing me.

But she didn’t do that in ANY of her scumgames and she also didn’t exhibit the kind of emotional range we’re seeing here. I still think Tayl0r’s town. I can’t for the life of me understand how her play here benefits a scum wincon. Why does scum!Tayl0r so confidently tr so many players? Maybe we should look at who’s making bad faith pushes/and or doesn’t sound sincere about them?

[Gloria Cleary]

Zdenek probably slips into POE zone down from light town given Panda town, but there's people I have reasons to dislike in the POE and are much more useful flips too. Unowen for one.

This was Hopkirk’s last Zdenek read.

[Gloria Cleary]

yea lets just kill fred whatever

VOTE: Fred

VOTE: Fredrick

round 2

VOTE: Fred

but Fidget next please.

MUSH does this not worry you? I agree this wagon is town led but I think there were some weak hop ons

@MC,are you not reading my posts? Because I unvoted. I’m null on Fred and I think Pooky and Shelley are probably town.

Also, why does scum!me try to bust up the Noraa wagon?

I think you’re very likely town here but some of your reads may possibly be worse than Toog’s.

I know that town!Pooky can get deathtunnelled and that’s what I think is happening with Noraa. I should probably do more meta diving on Shelley though.

@Tayl0r, why do you believe that Pooky’s scum but Fred is town? Both of them are hard pushing you, so what’s the difference?

I just did a comprehensive Pooky ISO and I’m now leaning town on him.

I don’t understand why Shelley thinks Tayl0r/Fred are linked. I’m definitely not getting buddy vibes from them.

[Gloria Cleary]

I think I love you, tbh.

But yes, okay.

Vote: Toog

Anyone else weirded out by this?

No, why?

I wasn’t here while any of that was going down, so if there’s some context to it that you’ve possibly left out?

[Gloria Cleary]

I feel like there was a reason I townread Titus but I don't remember. Can you obvtown Titus or remind my Pooky?

she probly doesnt attack me like this if she's scum

her posts reflect a willful ignorance about the game state that doesn't seem faked - if she had a scum PT to look at I can't imagine she would be this clueless about what's happened already in the game.

+1

Titus is very obviously town here. Absolutely anyone with any decent meta on her can verify that.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

Main reason I can see a Tayl0r/Fred link is Tayl0r's normally at least remotely plausible reasoning (e.g. if she has any reasoning at all for her reads it's normally at least /internally/ consistent) completely being thrown out in favor of the biggest fucking reach I've ever seen displayed publicly in a Mafia game. Who the fuck says there's some pattern, even a weak one, in who's driving the wagons -- WHEN THERE'S NO OVERLAP THERE AT ALL? Literally zero! None of the major drivers are the same! Not a single one! The overlap is all at the goddamned periphery and it's a stretch to even say that matters much between the two wagons when most of the overlap hopped on Toog at the very end with some amount of reluctance and is crack of fucking dawn early on Fred. To make all of this more egregious, who says this and then puts all the evidence needed to disprove themselves in one of the very posts they make the garbage assertion in?

It's utter garbage and bullshit is what I'm saying. And that's not town Tayl0r, who has trouble justifying her reads and actions but generally just sort of shrugs when questioned because her approach to playing the game is fairly seat-of-the-pants.



MURDERCAT, I've nulled Pooky for now pending a reread, and I'm going to give Gloria the benefit of the doubt for the moment. And I'd like you to note that Shelly has jumped off wagon twice. If she had even put the slightest effort into it, I'd say she was blatantly attempting to derail, but this seems more like something else.


PEDIT: The LLD thing was just a response to me making all her arguments for her. Basically a naked vote out of context; in context clearly a "oh hey I don't need to do any work, thanks".

Her strong Fred defence strikes me as kind of weird. That was actually one of the initial reasons I was suspicious of Noraa, her tr of Pooky who was lockscum reading her but she never hard defended him to the extent Tayl0r is Fred. I know that if someone is lockscum reading me, I generally don’t hard tr them. I tend to be paranoid that they’re scum pushing a miselim on me. I’m not convinced they’re buddies though. It’s possible Tayl0r might not want to see Fred flip.

I liked her Hopkirk and Vax defenses a lot better. It wouldn’t concern me if she just wasn’t convinced he’s scum. null or even lightly tr him but a hard tr on someone that is lockscum reading you is seriously strange, especially since she’s lockscum reading Pooky who’s also lockscum reading her.

[Gloria Cleary]

when taylor gets a scum pm she likes to look for speeding trains and jump in front of them

So why does Taylor do this now, though?

Like I know Noraa is more or less outed scum right but

Why was Taylor basically lurking the thread and letting the Noraa death happen only to suddenly show up when we switch to hopkirk and go off like this?

Prima facie reason is Hopkirk and Taylor are both scum right?

and losing Noraa was acceptable, but losing Hopkirk was less so.

fucking stop to think for a second. your logic is so fucking bad here. why would i let one scumbuddy die? and if i were gonna let one die, why not let two die? and speaking up like this never does anything except get me killed as well. i NEVER make this play as scum. never ever. its unbelievably stupid. but because i oppose you, im scum. your logic is on exactly the same level as noraa's right now, but youre calling her scum for it.

This is why I don’t think Noraa is a Tayl0r buddy, IF she’s scum here but if she is, every single player in her scum list is very likely town.

I’m still trying to come up with a single strong sr, meanwhile she - sans even a single scumflip - already has an entire list.

[Gloria Cleary]

nah i think its a bad wagon, but this whole time ive been saying theres probably a better than random chance noraa flips scum, just not enough of a chance that she deserved the pressure shes under. its whatever, but its kinda dumb.

So, Tayl0r Swift, you thought that there is a better than random chance that Noraa flips scum, but you townread her?

Fred is right here. @Noraa what do you think about 316?

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

I feel like there was a reason I townread Titus but I don't remember. Can you obvtown Titus or remind my Pooky?

she probly doesnt attack me like this if she's scum

her posts reflect a willful ignorance about the game state that doesn't seem faked - if she had a scum PT to look at I can't imagine she would be this clueless about what's happened already in the game.

+1

Titus is very obviously town here. Absolutely anyone with any decent meta on her can verify that.

I am afraid you have me at a disadvantage. I am one of the least metable players on site, and I don't even try to hide my meta. That's because meta is usually shit unless personality driven.

That being said, I can see a Fred Taylor link. Taylor would absolutely ignore valid points on Marashu in the last game. This makes me think she just hyper defends her partners as a matter of personality. Comments?

You don’t seem to have any agenda, which I think is highly town indicative for you.
Can you post a link to that game? Actually she only has two completed scumgames, so I’ll just find Marashu on the playerlist.

[Gloria Cleary]

@MC,are you not reading my posts? Because I unvoted. I’m null on Fred and I think Pooky and Shelley are probably town.

Yours is the vote I'm least worried about of the 3

Pooky sounds both irritated and amused by the srs on him rather than AtEing about it, which is more his scum meta.

Wrt Shelley, I don’t find her scummy but I don’t have much familiarity with her play.

[Gloria Cleary]

I have a headache the size of a small island nation.

Is this going to be taylor's magnum opus? *Checks role Pm* Nope.

@Fidget, @Gloria, Strongest scum read?

@gloria I think I addressed Fred's tone.

@Shellyc: Shelving discussion, need to secure scum death and then I can fidget around. Might hurt teamwork but we'll see.

@Theta, you can't?

its possible that im backwards on you and pooky. i do think one of you is scum but if i really am backwards then im still, perhaps more, confident in titus, fidget, and uno. i think if you and pooky are both town then the last two scum are murdercat and shelly.

I’m going to address other posts but you may join the Toog and MC club for having some bad reads here, primarily Titus and MC.

I think MC is very likely town, because he’s clearly sorting and that 180 on Noraa and reconsidering of LLD, don’t make a lot of sense coming from scim, and based off Titus’ clearly not having any agenda, tone and meta, I’d probably be willing to eat LLD’s hat if she’s scum here. I don’t know about Fidget or Uno. When I clicked Titus’ link and ISO’d you, I also did a brief skim of other players in this game. What I found was that Adorable clearly doesn’t know Noraa’s meta because she definitely did put pressure on players in that game. Shelley and especially Fidget seem kind of different here but I don’t know if that’s AI.

[Gloria Cleary]

Fred doesn't though.

Is scum!Fred generally a busser?

[Gloria Cleary]

Fred's pretty indefensible. I think shelly and Pooky trying to pull the wagon off of Fred could be considered defense, given that actually arguing in favor of Fred being town doesn't work here.

trying to argue that fred is a scum slot doesnt really work either. fred is pretty null and should be scrolled second.

Based on his posts, he’d probably give you the scroll in that case (possibly Noraa?). I really don’t understand this take from you. Why would you want him to get the second scroll and who is your preference for first?

[Gloria Cleary]

We're not doing this scrolled first, scrolled second, scrolled third thing.
We're just not.
We're going to try to hit scum now. End of story.

+1

I have to agree with this. We obviously only have any control at all of the first scroll as D1 has proven. Neither Hopkirk and especially not Vax would have been my picks for receiving scrolls. Toog might have given his to me if I hadn’t literally been V/LA, so clearly anyone thinking this is some kind of neat little system that is controllable might have better odds playing slot machines.

[Gloria Cleary]

This is a dude who has a guilty conscience and so he's not omgusing like all the good townies do.

Can you explain this? I consider omgussing to be NAI in general.

[Gloria Cleary]

I don't feel comfortable voting there with Pooky tbh.

@Pooky, why did your LLD read change? And if you’re no longer hard tr her, then why aren’t you questioning your Noraa read?

[Gloria Cleary]

If I could pass anyone the first scroll right now I'd give it to Pooky. Part of it is that I think Noraa is town, and I am suspicious of people who are SRing the slot still (yes I know that applies to Fred). It feels to me like Pooky has been a little overly defensive in places that stick out too, similar to what I was picking up from LLD. Especially when you see it towards people who Pooky seems to be town reading, it just felt a little off. I think Pooky saying he isn't town reading me is weird, I think town Pooky should be trying to work with me. It doesn't feel like he is really trying to town block at all really. Also, look at his votes.

Spoiler: Pooky votes

VOTE: Noraa

yea let's do it

VOTE: Hopkirk

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

im really glad ms obvscum is still alive

VOTE: T-swizzle

VOTE: Fred

VOTE: T-swizzle

this is obviously a scum

she is not even pretending to be trying at this point.

yea lets just kill fred whatever

VOTE: Fred

I just don't feel like Pooky is working to advance town's win con.

My counter to that is he’s willing to die, he’s not acting like he’s getting picked on, more like people sr him are nuts, he - whether or not you agree with his takes or not - sounds extremely confident in them, he’s not being defensive. It’s a similar reason why I read Noraa’s hat comment as extremely town indicative. Am I concerned that he isn’t rethinking his Noraa read, yes but his continual defiance and (hilariously) sarcastic responses to getting sr, ping town to me.

[Gloria Cleary]

I think Fred could be scum sure, but I'm not currently convinced by it and I really want to go S>T>S today. But if no one can see LLD or Pooky as options then I guess we will flip there? If we go town Fred to town Noraa it'll really suck though.

I’m not sure what LLD is but it’s pretty damn clear she actually did expect to be given the scroll but yeah, her play here does seem very similar to that game you linked. The question I have is she really too sick to make new contentful posts or has she given up on the game for whatever reasons? It did definitely concern me that she said absolutely nothing about the Hopkirk flip but I kind of agree with MUSH to give her more time. If she is still not making any new content filled posts by then, it’s probably not a great sign. If. she was genuinely sr Tayl0r than her Hopkirk push did make logical sense based off of Tayl0r’s reactions to Noraa/Hopkirk, so I want to hear more from her.

[Gloria Cleary]

I think Fred could be scum sure, but I'm not currently convinced by it and I really want to go S>T>S today. But if no one can see LLD or Pooky as options then I guess we will flip there? If we go town Fred to town Noraa it'll really suck though.

Yeah, that’s my concern too but we can’t control any of that and the smartest option is to go with your strongest srs. We should never allow what happened D1 to happen again. We hit three towns because some people voted Toog despite not sr him and then he and Vax made bad decisions.

[Gloria Cleary]

mmm. Sure.
Personally not willing to go there today (somewhat obviously).
Other people can discuss the Pookie murder if they want.

I don't truly see an issue with his votes without flips. in those areas.
I absolutely don't know whether Pooky is overly defensive as one alignment than as another.
I will give you that it is weird that everyone isn't town reading you at this point.
But it's fairly close to universal. I'd hard defend you and think it would be a scum claim if you got scrolled tbh. Good for you if you're scum.

Yeah, that concerns me about Tayl0r’s reads. Neither MC nor Titus should be considered possible scum. The very fact that Tayl0r thinks this, is that I’m not going to follow her reads, even if she was right on the three flips and Noraa.

[Gloria Cleary]

Ok ShadeCat

tell me which vote of mine you find suspicious and why

go

Are we doing this again? I think I have a cold so I'm going to go lay down but I'll give you one.

This doesn't feel like a genuine question. The point is that you are kind of sitting around without really making hard pushes after the beginning of the game with your push on Noraa. You have reads but it doesn't feel like you are working to get people on your side. It feels kind of performative to me, like you are not actually that interested in eliming the people you are SRing.

That’s probably town indicative though I think. Are you seriously suggesting that if Pooky tried to hard ram through either a Tayl0r or Noraa wagon, you’d tr him for it? His apathy is town indicative not the other way around. Scum!him would be trying to hard drive town wagons. He’s really not doing much to push a scum wincon. I would be a lot more suspicious of the players that are doing this then ones that seem apathetic.

[Gloria Cleary]

nah i just think it's funny that I was right and you're wrong and you go afk and then come back and try to lecture me on working towards a town wincon its wild

Working towards getting townies to vote with you is working towards a town wincon IMO, even if you end up being wrong.

But he has been pushing his srs and gotten sr for that? It really doesn’t make a lot of sense what you’re saying here. If I rightly or wrongly have a strong sr and I keep experiencing pushback and getting shouted down. I’m obviously going to back off of it. I think if scum, Pooky would need to get miselims and care a lot less about that.

[Gloria Cleary]

How about we go pooky -> me -> fidget?
I wanna take out two SRs of mine in one go.

I think we hit two town in that case. I think both you and Pooky are town, not sure about Fidget. I also think Pooky would give the scroll to Tayl0r and not you.

[Gloria Cleary]

If Pooky is scum, probably me or MUSH gets shot. If Pooky is town I think taylor gets shot.

My money’s on the latter.

[Gloria Cleary]

How about we go pooky -> me -> fidget?
I wanna take out two SRs of mine in one go.

i like this idea. we get a ton of info and are almost guaranteed to hit at least one scum. even if its only one scum, thats the info we need to set up tomorrow.

That’s obviously not going to happen, Pooky is almost certainly shooting you, not Noraa.

[Gloria Cleary]

scum pooky would give to me anyways cuz im currently a universal TR

If Pooky is scum, probably me or MUSH gets shot. If Pooky is town I think taylor gets shot.

Are you and Tayl0r reading the game?

[Gloria Cleary]

Pooky will you hand to me?

nah i'll give it to murdercat so I can talk shit to him in the dead thread after I flip green.

big true

one last chance for you to hit a scum on your way out otherwise Im gonna call you mister 0-4 forever

Wow, are you actually serious about this? Are you actually trying to get yourself killed? Haven’t you been saying you want to kill Tayl0r, so why would you want to give it to an obvious townie?

[Gloria Cleary]

why would I hit somebody I SR when I can hit somebody who annoys me

Dafuq?

[Gloria Cleary]

bc I was dead set on just spite killing LLD

that was day 1

this is day 2 and if murdercatto gets me scrolled that would be 3 greens he's gotten scrolled. So either he's scum and deserves to die or he's town who is basically playing for the scum team and deserves to die.

Why do I think that wholever is scum is laughing in the scum PT and letting town just cannibalise itself?

[Gloria Cleary]

the instant we start looking at something other than fred the thread is active again. hmm

bruh are you trying to tell me that Murder, spooky, and I are the solve here?

not you. maybe murder sorta. pooky and bell? sure. they were non-presences in the thread until now

How are you sr both murder and Pooky?

[Gloria Cleary]

I present you with: some of my reads. composed while I'm space braining on my new meds

Taylor - TL, randomly defensive, seems to be sticking to guns. Smart enough to not create those specific associative tells imo.
Noraa - SL, can't forgive the over-defensiveness earlier and response to drilled, have considered play since and downgraded.
UNOwen - scum. Previous post details this somewhere.
Mush - Town - seems proactive
Lady - Town - want to see more from her, and hope she's well soon <3
Shelly - TL, slot doesn't sit well with me on interactions still but the response to the hurt seemed genuine to me.
MC - Not sure, overconfident in reads.
Pooky - SL, slot isn't sitting well with me, seems to be mostly shitposting and taunting.
Lapsa - SL, What the smeg even is this slot.
Theta - Null Seems rather middle of the road to me.
Fred - scum. Zden was lean, freds entrance was... well I had to triple check when they came in because it's like they were always here, and its 3 straight in at taylor.
Bell - TL. Reads well to me. Should probably go look at the points made against them at some point.
Fidget - Honestly, haven't been paying attention.
Gloria - See above.
Adorable - Forgot about them


pedit

I think pooky's town. I feel like pooky has a kind of playful vibe when they are scum.

Pooky seems quite playful to me.

Not tr this.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

MUSH what is it about Fred you think is so bad? I admit I've been skimming a bit but it seemed like it was the empty push on Noraa with no real scum hunting. Was there more than that?

I was doing catchup, so I put this off. Fortunately, it was only 4 god damned pages in two hours for fuck's sake I thought we dealt with this shit--

AHEM.

So, there's the empty garbage push on Noraa. One thing you missed about it is it has no coherent point: it defends Tayl0r townreading Noraa to Noraa then votes Noraa -- like, where's this coming from? What's the angle, where's the destination?

Then there's the fact that Fred dodges most real confrontation. As someone else mentioned about Pooky recently (name already gone) but in a different way, Fred's doing this avoidant thing -- laser focus on my target, if I engage with someone challenging me I'm going to deflect it or dismiss it.

Fred has no reads, also. Like, uh, not literally no reads but basically no reads. Shall we ISO? Let's ISO.

--Comes in hard on easy miselimination Noraa.
--Doesn't even cast shade when people confront him. No engagement except deflection. No explanation of the reasoning for the push given.
--Questions shelly a little bit. Barely at all. Deflates the moment shelly responds. No explanation for the questioning given.
--Votes Tayl0r for not responding to the weakest push I've ever seen -- at first I thought it was a naked vote with an unrelated quote attached by accident. Weak pressure maintained.
--Explicitly shrugs about Flea's ISO.
--Finally posts a reads list where I, Gloria, and Fidget are town, Tayl0r and Noraa are scum, and everyone else is a shrug.
--Seriously, consider the absolute emptiness, the vapidness of that readslist. Holy shit. No explanation given for /any/ of these, by the way. Gloria floated a town Fred idea at some point along the line, so maybe that has something to do with it? Garbo reads. Absolutely trash.
--Mention of a reaction test on Tayl0r, I GUESS? Like, let me remind you the vote is for townreading LLD.
--Noraa to null because, uh, Gloria and Fidget say so I guess. To slightly paraphrase on account of I just closed the ISO around when I realized this might be useful to have here: "You've convinced me this read was for bad reasons".
--Denies shelly's literal depiction of the events around the Noraa read. No explanation given.
--Finally townreads LLD for, um, "a different reason". No explanation given. This is a recurring theme, huh?
--Returns to badly putting weight on Noraa and Tayl0r because Flea reminded him that he said stuff and then sort of let it drop. (The questions asked are technically about different posts but the thrust of the argument is damn near identical.)

And that is the entirety of Fred's ISO that actually matters. The whole thing. It's all there. Check for yourself if you don't believe me.

So, on top of that, I have some meta around Fred -- who I incorrectly scumread for very different reasons in our last game together. Meta's garbage, but I know I have weaknesses. I use meta to guide my hand when it comes to mis-reading players I've got history with. The meta is basically that in our last game: Fred spread pressure out, got lost in mechanics speculation, did a bad job of appearing town but approached the game with a solving mindset, took a big-picture approach, had trouble backing down from a challenge, remained engaged (but initially disinterested). Here we see small-balling, lack of engagement with expression of interest (there's a general disconnect there, regardless of meta), active-lurking, refusal to directly respond to challenges, no mechanics-spec despite a front-of-thread focus and the high mechanics-spec make-up of that area of the thread.

Make sense now? For the record, I'm not PEDITing a damn thing, I'll reread any posts after I get this out, because it took ages to type up.

That’s very compelling. I actually think meta reads are correct like 65% -70% of the time.

Okay, I’m willing to vote there.

[Gloria Cleary]

ebwop

pedit

I think pooky's town. I feel like pooky has a kind of playful vibe when they are scum.

Pooky seems quite playful to me.

You and I must have extremely different definitions of “playful” and that’s not even a valid basis for that read. It’s also inaccurate.

@Bell, Flea, Fred and maybe Fidget? but I’ll trust MUSH on her Fred meta read.

[Gloria Cleary]

I present you with: some of my reads. composed while I'm space braining on my new meds

Taylor - TL, randomly defensive, seems to be sticking to guns. Smart enough to not create those specific associative tells imo.
Noraa - SL, can't forgive the over-defensiveness earlier and response to drilled, have considered play since and downgraded.
UNOwen - scum. Previous post details this somewhere.
Mush - Town - seems proactive
Lady - Town - want to see more from her, and hope she's well soon <3
Shelly - TL, slot doesn't sit well with me on interactions still but the response to the hurt seemed genuine to me.
MC - Not sure, overconfident in reads.
Pooky - SL, slot isn't sitting well with me, seems to be mostly shitposting and taunting.
Lapsa - SL, What the smeg even is this slot.
Theta - Null Seems rather middle of the road to me.
Fred - scum. Zden was lean, freds entrance was... well I had to triple check when they came in because it's like they were always here, and its 3 straight in at taylor.
Bell - TL. Reads well to me. Should probably go look at the points made against them at some point.
Fidget - Honestly, haven't been paying attention.
Gloria - See above.
Adorable - Forgot about them


pedit

I think pooky's town. I feel like pooky has a kind of playful vibe when they are scum.

Pooky seems quite playful to me.

Very interesting that there is exactly, I repeat EXACTLY five SRs. This may be a bad way to judge but generally I find that only careful scum will have exactly the number of scum SRs.
I'm not stupid and I've been quite present in the thread. I know very well that pooky is kinda playful here. It's different tho and if you would care to meta dive, you would understand why. Plus if you read my entire paragraph and not just the first sentence, it shows u why exactly but no, Flea is just gonna come charging after me after reading one sentence of my reassessment read. Great. Lovely.
If we are killing a lurker slot first, Flea is the top candidate imo.

+1

Somehow MS doesn’t want to format this correctly.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

Noraa.
Get on the wagon.

why tho? I mean Murder ..... didnt have the hottest solve yesterday but I mean so? I believe he brought up a valid point. The SRs from Fred on me are hot garbage. I agree with that. They seem opportunistic. I agree with that as well. Nothing else he has said has made him look anything but bad. I agree. He bad. He scummy. So?

From what I could tell in his other games, he's a juicy LHF and everyone jumped on him too fast. Legit I saw that wagon building up and I was like "Oh god Noraa#2 is charging in"

Are you saying here you read Fred as a scummy town? Earlier you said you would be down for a Fred wagon saying he is shady and did your read on him change?

I have a headache the size of a small island nation.

Is this going to be taylor's magnum opus? *Checks role Pm* Nope.

@Fidget, @Gloria, Strongest scum read?

@gloria I think I addressed Fred's tone.

@Shellyc: Shelving discussion, need to secure scum death and then I can fidget around. Might hurt teamwork but we'll see.

@Theta, you can't?

its possible that im backwards on you and pooky. i do think one of you is scum but if i really am backwards then im still, perhaps more, confident in titus, fidget, and uno. i think if you and pooky are both town then the last two scum are murdercat and shelly.

I’m going to address other posts but you may join the Toog and MC club for having some bad reads here, primarily Titus and MC.

I think MC is very likely town, because he’s clearly sorting and that 180 on Noraa and reconsidering of LLD, don’t make a lot of sense coming from scim, and based off Titus’ clearly not having any agenda, tone and meta, I’d probably be willing to eat LLD’s hat if she’s scum here. I don’t know about Fidget or Uno. When I clicked Titus’ link and ISO’d you, I also did a brief skim of other players in this game. What I found was that Adorable clearly doesn’t know Noraa’s meta because she definitely did put pressure on players in that game. Shelley and especially Fidget seem kind of different here but I don’t know if that’s AI.

That's what I said earlier and Noraa is putting pressure in this game. I did not read her completed games and I only quickly skimmed 2 of her scum games and 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like. In 2 of her scum games I quickly skimmed she used by the lines of, "I would like to put pressure or I will put some pressure on you." When I quickly skimmed through 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like, she did not mention the word pressure when she placed her votes.

Thanks for the clarification but I think that’s kind of weak though.

[Gloria Cleary]

Are you and Tayl0r reading the game?

Are you literally agreeing with me in you last post?

Yes.

[Gloria Cleary]

Nora, Pooky and MC are all town.

Iffy on Tayl0r especially if either/both Fred/Flea flip scum.

[Gloria Cleary]

are you flavor leaf?

[Gloria Cleary]

His focus is wrong for town.
He should be looking at me, but he isn't.

Why should I be looking at you?

This is a dude who has a guilty conscience and so he's not omgusing like all the good townies do.

Why should I be OMGUSing? I simply just don't do that unless I actually have a case on the person and I simply don't have any reason to think you are scum.

I metadived 3 of your towngames, other than whichever one MUSH was referring to and you produced, plenty of content, numerous reads and asked lots of questions but about the gamestate in general and not just focused on a couple of players. You clearly aren’t doing that here.

In those games, your focus was on other - MANY other players and your questions were neither reactions, about yourself or narrowly focusing on one or two people. You’re sniping at Tayl0r reads more lamisty here, because your Tayl0r points actually make sense, you’re just not doing much of anything else.

[Gloria Cleary]

scum!fidget is saying that fred is town and pooky is scum.

If any of Murder/Pooky/Noraa get the scroll and they pass it to each other I'm throwing in the towel probably.

As I read the part with Murder casing Pooky (I guess) and Bell begging for Murder to vote fred, I notice that the Fred wagon is stalling hard. It got to.. just 5 votes?

I feel, as I said earlier, a non-bussing game could be really good for scum.

[5]

Fredrick A Campbell:

Bell

,

MUSHSHAGANA

, Flea The Magician,

PookyTheMagicalBear

, UNOwen

[2]

Noraa:

Titus, Adorable

[2]

Tayl0r Swift:

Fredrick A Campbell

, shellyc

[1]

Fidget:

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Adorable:

Theta Alpine

[1] shellyc:

Fidget

[1]

PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[4] Not Voting:

MURDERCAT

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, Lapsa,

Gloria Cleary

Looking at it with my townreads added in, it seems plausible. I more and more get the feeling Taylor and Fred aren't partnered from their interactions.

I feel inclined to trust Gloria/whoever elses' opinions on Titus being in her town meta.

Adorable does not feel good to me at all.

Shellyc loves to bus, she is all about the towncred. She jumped down Fred's throat very early if I recall correctly. Still hate the reaction to being hurt. But I am not terribly put off by most of her reads and some things make me reconsider. Although when you have a great amount of content, I suppose that is bound to happen.

fred you're online come here

i consider this to be ellitelling btw

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

This is just how I'd expect shelly to talk to a scum partner who's under even moderate fire lol. Not totally convinced yet but this does pique my interest.

i do not really see the case on fredrick myself

Theta just doesn't see merit in the wagon.. I guess. She writes this post by itself as her only comment on the thread. But I wonder, was the heat starting to dissipate when she wrote this?

I think there is a good shot fredrick is town and we are being snowed by strong scum players

i did give reasons. people who are trying to discredit me are quoting a post where i was being sassy.

also this fred wagon is ridiculous. the people on the fred wagon prove that fred is town 90%

Bahahah! Mush/Noraa expressed interest in the wagon around this part too, to be fair. But there was at least 1 maybe 2 townies against it. Theta isn't going against the grain alone.

I am just now realizing I'm purely doing pre-flip associatives on a slot I am not entirely sure is scum. Brilliant job me. But I like what I'm seeing. If my townreads are halfway decent, this is a viable theory on who's scum. There's town on him, it's slow, and Mushy's case isn't half bad. What do I have to fear?

Lapsa is obviously Lapsa and can be whatever alignment. Decent chance one of UNOwen/Flea is a busser in that case (And it's probably obvious which it'd be but I'm about out of time)

Overall I am left with Fred + shelly + Theta/Adorable + UNOwen/Flea + Lapsa/Any Player. It's probably worth noting I still am inclined to think shelly and one of Theta/Adorable is scum even if Fred is town, so not a totally pointless exercise. Reading through has been nice.

I am probably getting a false positive on Theta and it's just Adorable, if I were to guess. The blank "I don't find Fred scummy" with nothing else just felt a bit disingenuous in the context of where the thread was at, I suppose.

Gonna try and form stronger independent opinions on these slots when I get the chance. I hate the way this game looks like it's going to go if we don't eliminate a scum Fred (Pooky, Noraa, Murder killing each other..)

Where?

[Gloria Cleary]

who is providing the main opposition to the fred wagon? who is trying to derail it?

I just don't care who's bussing who.
Fred's ~probably~ scum to me.
No matter who votes him it doesn't change these odds. You don't know who's scum and who isn't whether a certain player is bussing, sheeping or is scum hunting or making a plan or whatever.

Just vote the scum murder.
Do it for me. *shiny eyes*

This one's for you, Bell.

VOTE: Fred

?????

[Gloria Cleary]

who is providing the main opposition to the fred wagon? who is trying to derail it?

I just don't care who's bussing who.
Fred's ~probably~ scum to me.
No matter who votes him it doesn't change these odds. You don't know who's scum and who isn't whether a certain player is bussing, sheeping or is scum hunting or making a plan or whatever.

Just vote the scum murder.
Do it for me. *shiny eyes*

This one's for you, Bell.

VOTE: Fred

?????

id like to formally retract my fred townread

How is Fidget derailing Fred wagon by actually VOTING him but you actually are NOT?

And no, I don’t trust your Titus read here. I will hard veto any wagon on that slot, just like I will Pooky.

You’re play here is kind’ve weirding me out, with all of scroll placement posts, wanting to kill your trs. Like why would you ever want Noraa to even have the scroll?

I never want Titus to get the scroll, first, second or third. You know why? I don’t ever want to kill my trs.

[Gloria Cleary]

scum!fidget is saying that fred is town and pooky is scum.

How about we go pooky -> me -> fidget?
I wanna take out two SRs of mine in one go.

i like this idea. we get a ton of info and are almost guaranteed to hit at least one scum. even if its only one scum, thats the info we need to set up tomorrow.

That’s obviously not going to happen, Pooky is almost certainly shooting you, not Noraa.

its just as good if pooky shoots me.

Fidget has Pooky clearly marked in green in her VC post, so which is it Tayl0r? Do you think Pooky is scum or not?

Why are you suddenly retracting your Fred tr? Didn’t you say previously that you were like 90% sure he was town? So why the sudden 180? I can dig up that post if necessary?

[Gloria Cleary]

mmm. Sure.
Personally not willing to go there today (somewhat obviously).
Other people can discuss the Pookie murder if they want.

I don't truly see an issue with his votes without flips. in those areas.
I absolutely don't know whether Pooky is overly defensive as one alignment than as another.
I will give you that it is weird that everyone isn't town reading you at this point.
But it's fairly close to universal. I'd hard defend you and think it would be a scum claim if you got scrolled tbh. Good for you if you're scum.

Yeah, that concerns me about Tayl0r’s reads. Neither MC nor Titus should be considered possible scum. The very fact that Tayl0r thinks this, is that I’m not going to follow her reads, even if she was right on the three flips and Noraa.

i dont think MC is scum. i think if {pooky, shelly, bell} contains 0 scum then id get very paranoid about MC and wanna look there next. this is nothing like town!titus from what ive seen. theres none of the fire. i get that shes busy but this isnt what i expect.

scum!fidget is saying that fred is town and pooky is scum.

Dafuq? Are you even reading what your posting?

You’re accusing Fidget of sr Pooky - which is a blatant misrep btw - of calling Pooky scum when she had him in green, when you apparently still have him in your PoE?

Do you think none of us are actually reading the game or what? You think you can blatantly misrep Fidget’s posts and that no one is going to call you out about that?

[Gloria Cleary]

scum!fidget is saying that fred is town and pooky is scum.

If any of Murder/Pooky/Noraa get the scroll and they pass it to each other I'm throwing in the towel probably.

As I read the part with Murder casing Pooky (I guess) and Bell begging for Murder to vote fred, I notice that the Fred wagon is stalling hard. It got to.. just 5 votes?

I feel, as I said earlier, a non-bussing game could be really good for scum.

[5]

Fredrick A Campbell:

Bell

,

MUSHSHAGANA

, Flea The Magician,

PookyTheMagicalBear

, UNOwen

[2]

Noraa:

Titus, Adorable

[2]

Tayl0r Swift:

Fredrick A Campbell

, shellyc

[1]

Fidget:

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Adorable:

Theta Alpine

[1] shellyc:

Fidget

[1]

PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[4] Not Voting:

MURDERCAT

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, Lapsa,

Gloria Cleary

Looking at it with my townreads added in, it seems plausible. I more and more get the feeling Taylor and Fred aren't partnered from their interactions.

I feel inclined to trust Gloria/whoever elses' opinions on Titus being in her town meta.

Adorable does not feel good to me at all.

Shellyc loves to bus, she is all about the towncred. She jumped down Fred's throat very early if I recall correctly. Still hate the reaction to being hurt. But I am not terribly put off by most of her reads and some things make me reconsider. Although when you have a great amount of content, I suppose that is bound to happen.

fred you're online come here

i consider this to be ellitelling btw

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

This is just how I'd expect shelly to talk to a scum partner who's under even moderate fire lol. Not totally convinced yet but this does pique my interest.

i do not really see the case on fredrick myself

Theta just doesn't see merit in the wagon.. I guess. She writes this post by itself as her only comment on the thread. But I wonder, was the heat starting to dissipate when she wrote this?

I think there is a good shot fredrick is town and we are being snowed by strong scum players

i did give reasons. people who are trying to discredit me are quoting a post where i was being sassy.

also this fred wagon is ridiculous. the people on the fred wagon prove that fred is town 90%

Bahahah! Mush/Noraa expressed interest in the wagon around this part too, to be fair. But there was at least 1 maybe 2 townies against it. Theta isn't going against the grain alone.

I am just now realizing I'm purely doing pre-flip associatives on a slot I am not entirely sure is scum. Brilliant job me. But I like what I'm seeing. If my townreads are halfway decent, this is a viable theory on who's scum. There's town on him, it's slow, and Mushy's case isn't half bad. What do I have to fear?

Lapsa is obviously Lapsa and can be whatever alignment. Decent chance one of UNOwen/Flea is a busser in that case (And it's probably obvious which it'd be but I'm about out of time)

Overall I am left with Fred + shelly + Theta/Adorable + UNOwen/Flea + Lapsa/Any Player. It's probably worth noting I still am inclined to think shelly and one of Theta/Adorable is scum even if Fred is town, so not a totally pointless exercise. Reading through has been nice.

I am probably getting a false positive on Theta and it's just Adorable, if I were to guess. The blank "I don't find Fred scummy" with nothing else just felt a bit disingenuous in the context of where the thread was at, I suppose.

Gonna try and form stronger independent opinions on these slots when I get the chance. I hate the way this game looks like it's going to go if we don't eliminate a scum Fred (Pooky, Noraa, Murder killing each other..)

Where?

Please tell me @Tayl0r, how

2 + 2 = 5

Fidget is doing anything other than calling Pooky basically locktown here?

[Gloria Cleary]

@bell: make that Fred, Flea and Tayl0r. I’m liking Fidget’s recent posts and think Adorable actually believes in her bad reasons for suspecting Noraa.

I have this theory that Tayl0r defended town yesterday to get cred to push miselims: Pooky/you/Shelley/MC/Fidget/Titus.

What do you think?

[Gloria Cleary]

@bell: make that Fred, Flea and Tayl0r. I’m liking Fidget’s recent posts and think Adorable actually believes in her bad reasons for suspecting Noraa.

I have this theory that Tayl0r defended town yesterday to get cred to push miselims: Pooky/you/Shelley/MC/Fidget/Titus.

What do you think?

Actually little less sure on Fred.

VOTE: Tayl0r

[Gloria Cleary]

@bell: make that Fred, Flea and Tayl0r. I’m liking Fidget’s recent posts and think Adorable actually believes in her bad reasons for suspecting Noraa.

I have this theory that Tayl0r defended town yesterday to get cred to push miselims: Pooky/you/Shelley/MC/Fidget/Titus.

What do you think?

Actually little less sure on Fred.

VOTE: Tayl0r

I don’t like Fred’s Pooky posts either. I will probably switch my vote but I’m not liking Tayl0r or Flea rn as well. But Tayl0r is blatantly misrepping Fidget’s posting and I don’t see how that’s town.

[Gloria Cleary]

why would I even care about being townread

the sooner i exit the better this game is depressingly boring. most people aren't even playing

Fair enough. I'll be sad if you are town Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

I would be fine going this route since I am null on Pooky if it weren't for the fact that I actually have another scumread on another player that only Gloria Cleary seems to be taking seriously.

Tayl0r?

most of the town is apathetic

the scum are not interested in bussing

this game is over and I have no interest in putting extra effort into trying to push taylor swift given I've already tried and nobody cares

Pooky will you hand to me?

nah i'll give it to murdercat so I can talk shit to him in the dead thread after I flip green.

big true

one last chance for you to hit a scum on your way out otherwise Im gonna call you mister 0-4 forever

if MC is town we're basically doomed:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84640

@Fred, do you honestly think Pooky is ever scum here from these posts?

[Gloria Cleary]

most of the town is apathetic

the scum are not interested in bussing

this game is over and I have no interest in putting extra effort into trying to push taylor swift given I've already tried and nobody cares

I care. She’s misrepping Fidget and trying to push elims on you, bell, Shelley, MC, Titus, Fidget. She’s making weird posts about scroll replacement. She’s positioning you as scum while falsely accusing Fidget of it. Then she again falsely accuses her of derailing Fred wagon who she isn’t even voting but Fidget actually is. And it looks like she did this 180 because bell pressured her and for no other reason.

[Gloria Cleary]

Reminder that Zdenek was low key scummy. The (admittedly few) comments he made before replacing out looked like keeping up appearances for the sake of his scum-buddies, not like a town player trying to get back into a game. Granted, this is pretty weak considering the thread clearly got away from him regardless of alignment but Fred has not come in with a great townie aura. He's challenging Bell in the sort of way that scum might do trying to score a technical win but completely missing the point as to motivation. If you are town replacing into a game and someone tries to get you executed then they are going to be a natural focus of your perspective. I've got an increasingly good feeling about this wagon.

Gloria's questioning of Taylor is good but if she is trying to frame Fidget as a scum partner of Fred, then that suggests he is about to flip scum.

Are you making the argument that Tayl0r is bussing Fred here?

[Gloria Cleary]

I never want Titus to get the scroll, first, second or third. You know why? I don’t ever want to kill my trs.

i have lots of townreads. some of them are gonna die. there are some that give more info than others. same reason i dont mind dying myself despite knowing im town. also

im not trying to paint fidget as derailing the fred wagon

.

scum!fidget is saying that fred is town and pooky is scum.

who is providing the main opposition to the fred wagon? who is trying to derail it?

Then what do you call this? And why did you misrep the post where she requoted the VC with Pooky’s name in green. You accused her of sr Pooky when she very clearly said she didn’t want him to get the scroll. Meanwhile, he is still in YOUR PoE, is he not? How is Fidget derailing Fred wagon by actually voting him when you’re not?

You’re calling her scum for two things, she’s clearly taken the exact opposite position of what these posts are explicitly alleging.

[Gloria Cleary]

gloria why is titus town?

She clearly has no agenda and what Pooky has said about her I agree with. She seems to be very confused about exactly what is going on in the game. The way she previously pushed Pooky, tone, the fact that she doesn’t seem to have any kind of agenda and looks like she’s genuinely trying to figure out the game.

I could ask you what makes her scum? I can tell you that if there exists a Titus scum game where she’s playing anything like this, I am unaware of it. In every scumgame of hers I’ve read, she very blatantly had some kind of suspicious agenda she was hard pushing or her tone was off or she just said things that were really weird. I haven’t seen any evidence so far of her doing any of these things. Here she looks to be sincerely solving, At worst, she should be a null read for you. Nothing she’s done so far is even remotely scummy.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

why would I even care about being townread

the sooner i exit the better this game is depressingly boring. most people aren't even playing

Fair enough. I'll be sad if you are town Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

I would be fine going this route since I am null on Pooky if it weren't for the fact that I actually have another scumread on another player that only Gloria Cleary seems to be taking seriously.

Tayl0r?

most of the town is apathetic

the scum are not interested in bussing

this game is over and I have no interest in putting extra effort into trying to push taylor swift given I've already tried and nobody cares

Pooky will you hand to me?

nah i'll give it to murdercat so I can talk shit to him in the dead thread after I flip green.

big true

one last chance for you to hit a scum on your way out otherwise Im gonna call you mister 0-4 forever

if MC is town we're basically doomed:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84640

@Fred, do you honestly think Pooky is ever scum here from these posts?

Yeah, Gloria Cleary, Tayl0r Swift is the one I was referring to there.

I don't see how anyone can say with any certainty that PookyTheMagicalBear is not scum from those posts.

By the way, that is not me saying I scumread PookyTheMagicalBear. I am more null on that player.

They are very clearly never buddies here and if you sr Tayl0r than shouldn’t you be tr or at least tl Pooky? All of those posts plus his posts on Titus and others. He is coming across like extremely frustrated town who has a solve that no one is listening to - one that you clearly seem to agree with btw. He was willing to die to take out his srs. He has been extremely straightforward about his position. Why does scum!Pooky rail about “scum”!Tayl0r for pages. How does that further any kind of scum agenda?

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

why would I even care about being townread

the sooner i exit the better this game is depressingly boring. most people aren't even playing

Fair enough. I'll be sad if you are town Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

I would be fine going this route since I am null on Pooky if it weren't for the fact that I actually have another scumread on another player that only Gloria Cleary seems to be taking seriously.

Tayl0r?

most of the town is apathetic

the scum are not interested in bussing

this game is over and I have no interest in putting extra effort into trying to push taylor swift given I've already tried and nobody cares

Pooky will you hand to me?

nah i'll give it to murdercat so I can talk shit to him in the dead thread after I flip green.

big true

one last chance for you to hit a scum on your way out otherwise Im gonna call you mister 0-4 forever

if MC is town we're basically doomed:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84640

@Fred, do you honestly think Pooky is ever scum here from these posts?

Yeah, Gloria Cleary, Tayl0r Swift is the one I was referring to there.

I don't see how anyone can say with any certainty that PookyTheMagicalBear is not scum from those posts.

By the way, that is not me saying I scumread PookyTheMagicalBear. I am more null on that player.

They are very clearly never buddies here and if you sr Tayl0r than shouldn’t you be tr or at least tl Pooky? All of those posts plus his posts on Titus and others. He is coming across like extremely frustrated town who has a solve that no one is listening to - one that you clearly seem to agree with btw. He was willing to die to take out his srs. He has been extremely straightforward about his position. Why does scum!Pooky rail about “scum”!Tayl0r for pages. How does that further any kind of scum agenda?

Precisely to make no one think he is scum with Tayl0r Swift.

I think you’re wrong. I don’t think this is scum theatre any more than I think LLD/Noraa was. Imo, actual scum distancing looks very different. It’s kind’ve hard to explain but you need to know what to look for. It generally looks faked and like scum theatre and Pooky didn’t start pushing Tayl0r until she started what appeared to him as her WK Noraa. In contrast, scum theatre more often than not usually happens in a context that generally doesn’t make logical or contextual sense.

[Gloria Cleary]

I want to pay really close attention to these flips and I want scroll-holders to hit their favorite targets, NOT who town likes. We tried this "work with the scrollbearer" shit before and it went wrong, there's a good chance of going 0 for 3 /again/ if we let the rest of the town influence this shit I think.

I'd say who I want to see Fred hit, but I want to minimize my influence here. Also, uh, I think Fred's scum anyway, so.

Spoiler:

why would I even care about being townread

the sooner i exit the better this game is depressingly boring. most people aren't even playing

Fair enough. I'll be sad if you are town Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

I would be fine going this route since I am null on Pooky if it weren't for the fact that I actually have another scumread on another player that only Gloria Cleary seems to be taking seriously.

Tayl0r?

most of the town is apathetic

the scum are not interested in bussing

this game is over and I have no interest in putting extra effort into trying to push taylor swift given I've already tried and nobody cares

Pooky will you hand to me?

nah i'll give it to murdercat so I can talk shit to him in the dead thread after I flip green.

big true

one last chance for you to hit a scum on your way out otherwise Im gonna call you mister 0-4 forever

if MC is town we're basically doomed:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84640

@Fred, do you honestly think Pooky is ever scum here from these posts?

Yeah, Gloria Cleary, Tayl0r Swift is the one I was referring to there.

I don't see how anyone can say with any certainty that PookyTheMagicalBear is not scum from those posts.

By the way, that is not me saying I scumread PookyTheMagicalBear. I am more null on that player.

They are very clearly never buddies here and if you sr Tayl0r than shouldn’t you be tr or at least tl Pooky? All of those posts plus his posts on Titus and others. He is coming across like extremely frustrated town who has a solve that no one is listening to - one that you clearly seem to agree with btw. He was willing to die to take out his srs. He has been extremely straightforward about his position. Why does scum!Pooky rail about “scum”!Tayl0r for pages. How does that further any kind of scum agenda?

Precisely to make no one think he is scum with Tayl0r Swift.

@Fred if you’re town here, please don’t give the scroll to Pooky or he might give it to MC and then we’d probably have six dead town.

[Gloria Cleary]

I never want Titus to get the scroll, first, second or third. You know why? I don’t ever want to kill my trs.

i have lots of townreads. some of them are gonna die. there are some that give more info than others. same reason i dont mind dying myself despite knowing im town. also

im not trying to paint fidget as derailing the fred wagon

.

scum!fidget is saying that fred is town and pooky is scum.

who is providing the main opposition to the fred wagon? who is trying to derail it?

Then what do you call this? And why did you misrep the post where she requoted the VC with Pooky’s name in green. You accused her of sr Pooky when she very clearly said she didn’t want him to get the scroll. Meanwhile, he is still in YOUR PoE, is he not? How is Fidget derailing Fred wagon by actually voting him when you’re not?

You’re calling her scum for two things, she’s clearly taken the exact opposite position of what these posts are explicitly alleging.

you need to re-read my post. you clearly arent getting what i said.

Explain it to me then.

[Gloria Cleary]

gloria why is titus town?

She clearly has no agenda and what Pooky has said about her I agree with. She seems to be very confused about exactly what is going on in the game. The way she previously pushed Pooky, tone, the fact that she doesn’t seem to have any kind of agenda and looks like she’s genuinely trying to figure out the game.

I could ask you what makes her scum? I can tell you that if there exists a Titus scum game where she’s playing anything like this, I am unaware of it. In every scumgame of hers I’ve read, she very blatantly had some kind of suspicious agenda she was hard pushing or her tone was off or she just said things that were really weird. I haven’t seen any evidence so far of her doing any of these things. Here she looks to be sincerely solving, At worst, she should be a null read for you. Nothing she’s done so far is even remotely scummy.

ive felt all the things you say titus isnt doing. some of her townreads are lazy. soem of her scum reads dont seem to make sense or follow. she isnt solving like she normally does at town. why are you trying to decide what my reads should be?

You keep trying to push her as scum when I don’t think she’s done anything scummy. I can’t make my case on her any plainer. You clearly aren’t interested in my read and I’m not interested in continuing to argue with you about it. Nothing you’re saying has changed my read on her in the slightest and I will continue to defend my strongest trs, whether you like it or not.

[Gloria Cleary]

gloria why is titus town?

She clearly has no agenda and what Pooky has said about her I agree with. She seems to be very confused about exactly what is going on in the game. The way she previously pushed Pooky, tone, the fact that she doesn’t seem to have any kind of agenda and looks like she’s genuinely trying to figure out the game.

I could ask you what makes her scum? I can tell you that if there exists a Titus scum game where she’s playing anything like this, I am unaware of it.

In every scumgame of hers I’ve read, she very blatantly had some kind of suspicious agenda she was hard pushing or her tone was off or she just said things that were really weird. I haven’t seen any evidence so far of her doing any of these things

. Here she looks to be sincerely solving, At worst, she should be a null read for you. Nothing she’s done so far is even remotely scummy.

ive felt all the things you say titus isnt doing. some of her townreads are lazy. soem of her scum reads dont seem to make sense or follow. she isnt solving like she normally does at town. why are you trying to decide what my reads should be?

You keep trying to push her as scum when I don’t think she’s done anything scummy. I can’t make my case on her any plainer. You clearly aren’t interested in my read and I’m not interested in continuing to argue with you about it. Nothing you’re saying has changed my read on her in the slightest and I will continue to defend my strongest trs, whether you like it or not.

Btw, what part of the bolded did you miss? Prove me wrong, then. Find a scumgame where she’s playing anything like she is here. If you can’t find one, I’m sticking to my read.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

gloria why is titus town?

She clearly has no agenda and what Pooky has said about her I agree with. She seems to be very confused about exactly what is going on in the game. The way she previously pushed Pooky, tone, the fact that she doesn’t seem to have any kind of agenda and looks like she’s genuinely trying to figure out the game.

I could ask you what makes her scum? I can tell you that if there exists a Titus scum game where she’s playing anything like this, I am unaware of it.

In every scumgame of hers I’ve read, she very blatantly had some kind of suspicious agenda she was hard pushing or her tone was off or she just said things that were really weird. I haven’t seen any evidence so far of her doing any of these things

. Here she looks to be sincerely solving, At worst, she should be a null read for you. Nothing she’s done so far is even remotely scummy.

ive felt all the things you say titus isnt doing. some of her townreads are lazy. soem of her scum reads dont seem to make sense or follow. she isnt solving like she normally does at town. why are you trying to decide what my reads should be?

You keep trying to push her as scum when I don’t think she’s done anything scummy. I can’t make my case on her any plainer. You clearly aren’t interested in my read and I’m not interested in continuing to argue with you about it. Nothing you’re saying has changed my read on her in the slightest and I will continue to defend my strongest trs, whether you like it or not.

Btw, what part of the bolded did you miss? Prove me wrong, then. Find a scumgame where she’s playing anything like she is here. If you can’t find one, I’m sticking to my read.

im not contesting meta. im contesting that she doesnt fit that here. but youve indicated that you arent interested in being persuaded, so im just gonna let you do your thing.

What suspicious agenda do you see her pushing? How is her tone off? What has she said that strikes you as weird?

Those are my Titus scumtells and if you can find a scumgame of hers, where she’s playing similarly to here, link it.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

I never want Titus to get the scroll, first, second or third. You know why? I don’t ever want to kill my trs.

i have lots of townreads. some of them are gonna die. there are some that give more info than others. same reason i dont mind dying myself despite knowing im town. also

im not trying to paint fidget as derailing the fred wagon

.

scum!fidget is saying that fred is town and pooky is scum.

who is providing the main opposition to the fred wagon? who is trying to derail it?

Then what do you call this? And why did you misrep the post where she requoted the VC with Pooky’s name in green. You accused her of sr Pooky when she very clearly said she didn’t want him to get the scroll. Meanwhile, he is still in YOUR PoE, is he not? How is Fidget derailing Fred wagon by actually voting him when you’re not?

You’re calling her scum for two things, she’s clearly taken the exact opposite position of what these posts are explicitly alleging.

you need to re-read my post. you clearly arent getting what i said.

Explain it to me then.

if fidget is scum, then

her posts indicate that fred is town and pooky is scum with her. since i think fidget is scum, i think fred is town and pooky is scum

How do hypothetically “scum”!Fidget’s posts indicate Fred!town and Pooky!scum? Fred has been hard tr her and I don’t even know what Pooky’s read on her is?

[Gloria Cleary]

Was it this game where we talked about how you can highlight text to not quote an entire wall, when most of it isn't relevant?

Did you know that you can quote only some of a wall by highlighting the text that you actually care about?

it isn't relevant?

what if i dont care about any of it

quote an entire wall

i think i will

You could try to put it into spoiler tags like I’m doing?

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

why would I even care about being townread

the sooner i exit the better this game is depressingly boring. most people aren't even playing

Fair enough. I'll be sad if you are town Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

I would be fine going this route since I am null on Pooky if it weren't for the fact that I actually have another scumread on another player that only Gloria Cleary seems to be taking seriously.

Tayl0r?

most of the town is apathetic

the scum are not interested in bussing

this game is over and I have no interest in putting extra effort into trying to push taylor swift given I've already tried and nobody cares

Pooky will you hand to me?

nah i'll give it to murdercat so I can talk shit to him in the dead thread after I flip green.

big true

one last chance for you to hit a scum on your way out otherwise Im gonna call you mister 0-4 forever

if MC is town we're basically doomed:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84640

@Fred, do you honestly think Pooky is ever scum here from these posts?

Yeah, Gloria Cleary, Tayl0r Swift is the one I was referring to there.

I don't see how anyone can say with any certainty that PookyTheMagicalBear is not scum from those posts.

By the way, that is not me saying I scumread PookyTheMagicalBear. I am more null on that player.

They are very clearly never buddies here and if you sr Tayl0r than shouldn’t you be tr or at least tl Pooky? All of those posts plus his posts on Titus and others. He is coming across like extremely frustrated town who has a solve that no one is listening to - one that you clearly seem to agree with btw. He was willing to die to take out his srs. He has been extremely straightforward about his position. Why does scum!Pooky rail about “scum”!Tayl0r for pages. How does that further any kind of scum agenda?

Precisely to make no one think he is scum with Tayl0r Swift.

I think you’re wrong. I don’t think this is scum theatre any more than I think LLD/Noraa was. Imo, actual scum distancing looks very different. It’s kind’ve hard to explain but you need to know what to look for. It generally looks faked and like scum theatre and Pooky didn’t start pushing Tayl0r until she started what appeared to him as her WK Noraa. In contrast, scum theatre more often than not usually happens in a context that generally doesn’t make logical or contextual sense.

Have a look at Newbie 2025 and see how well both of the members in the scum team distanced. They did it so well I used their attempt to distance as proof that they aren't aligned and lost the game for everyone.

I agree they did a great job at distancing but their interactions don’t resemble Pooky/Tayl0r or LLD/Noraa in THIS game.

[Gloria Cleary]

id like to formally retract my fred townread

Aight, were you scum Fred?

the lack of a counterwagon kinda proves that fred was town.

Why did you townread me?

Why did you retract that townread?

The time for Tayl0r to do that 180 was BEFORE you were hammered. Doing that right after hammer and BEFORE flip is hella unusual

[Gloria Cleary]

If that question was not important, why did you ask me that. Also, I didn't cut your post. I literally used the Control+C and Control+V method to lift it from your post and even link the post to make it easily verifiable. Finally, that is your opinion of what it makes you look like and may or may not be mine.

1) you misrepped me. I remembered wrong. The post wasn't cut but you misrepped. I didn't say Taylor used it on me twice. I said if Taylor was scum here, she used it on me twice and I didn't think she was that dumb
2) I never asked you a question?

Noraa, why would that be “dumb”? Why couldn’t it be smart? I mean whatever she is here, she’s doubling down on pushing one of the same players that she did in The Trials, that incidentally happens to be my strongest tr and it pings me that she continues to fight me on it. I don’t get a strong tr on a player without damned good reason and it concerns me that isn’t influencing her in the slightest.

[Gloria Cleary]

Shooting LLD is not terrible IMO

She’s hardly doing anything recently, so she’s pretty much become a non-factor, no? I still lean town on her. And scum is currently winning, so why would scum!LLD suddenly have lost interest in the game?

[Gloria Cleary]

gloria can you talk to me about bell? whats your read there?

I think town? but it’s not on the level for me that Titus/Mush/Pooky are.

I’m still really sus on Tayl0r/Flea the most. I think Tayl0r fighting me so hard on Titus isn’t good at all. She’s not even considering my reasons for having such a strong read. Then her weird Fred reads and wanting to give the scroll to Noraa who she claims to hard tr. And her hedginess on Pooky is also not good. I’m once again doubting Fidget for not being more suspicious of Tayl0r. I kind’ve think Adorable could be an easy LHF push here for scum.
It’s probably town indicative for Fred though.

[Gloria Cleary]

Shooting LLD is not terrible IMO

She’s hardly doing anything recently, so she’s pretty much become a non-factor, no? I still lean town on her. And scum is currently winning, so why would scum!LLD suddenly have lost interest in the game?

why would townLLD not care that the boat is sinking

If this is directed to me then I don’t understand the question. If I’m reading you correctly, it looks like we’re on the same page with this?

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

Apologies if you are indeed town Fred, I didn't intend for that to be the hammer although I doubt I'd have moved my vote.

Meant this as in "apologies for reading you wrong", I want to be clear I'm not blaming you for my bad read, of course.

When I look at your town reads these are the players you put as town.

Bell, Mush, Pooky, Noraa, MurderCat, LL, Taylor, Gloria

List of players you put as poe

Fred, shelly, Titus, Adorable, Theta, Lapsa, Flea, UNOwen

Fred said he is town and if I'm to look at your pov removing me on the list then the 5 team from your pov would be somewhere in

shelly, Titus, Theta, Lapsa, Flea, UNOwen

You look a bit confident on your reads and the 6 players I listed above, which player would you remove and put on the town list?

I'm not crazy enough to believe I've got all the scum in there, so it'd probably be a bit pointless to just remove one player. Let me order my reads in intensity and see where that gets me, instead.

I would say Lady, Pooky, Mushy, and Noraa are my highest confidence townreads.
If Lady was willing to trash on town!Isis knowing fully well Isis was town correctly suspecting scum, I am astounded.
Mushy I trust is not able to give this much effort as scum as she and others have pointed out. I have not played with her before, though.
Pooky not playing at all how I'd expect him to. Not a perfect read but I seriously, seriously doubt we see this prickliness, unresponsiveness to scumreads, and the "Town is fucked I'm done here" attitude from him if he's scum.
Noraa is complicated and probably deserves her own post. I actually should review her before townlocking (I have noticed that Noraa has the ability to become globally townread as scum in a different game).

Below them lies Murdercat, Gloria, and Bell.
Quite like Gloria's posts, almost always seem to agree. I am not counting out the possibility she's a strong scum player but I like what I've been seeing.
Had strong reasons to townread them early, but they've been fading out from my mind.
Murdercat I believe is similar to Mushy with regards to scum meta, I'm not sure he would have taken the aggressive "Toog is scum NVM Vax is scum NVM Hopkirk is scum SHIT" stances D1 as scum. I think he is probably genuinely embarrassed and losing the willingness to play as hard. Pooky definitely not helping. I could be wrong and he's just acting that part though, so I cannot be certain yet. Probably should check the original reasons for townreading.
I finally witnessed a scum player getting exceptionally emotional recently. Should probably give Bell a more objective look in the future. For now still a townlean.

Below those tiers is mucky. Probably place Titus up a little as a sheep to people reading her as being on town meta.

I'm left with Taylor, shelly, Theta, Lapsa, Flea, UNOwen, and Fred.
Talked about why I disliked Taylor/shelly here. I like some things and dislike some things about the two of them, so I feel more comfortable nailing them off of bad interactions with dead scum in conjunction with a scumread.
Haven't reviewed Theta/Flea/UNOwen really beyond checking Theta's Fred interactions and deeming her defense of him suspicious given the timing. I found it suspicious because she gave a blank defense of him when others were starting to voice their defenses of Fred.
Lapsa is Lapsa.

Overall, I'd go something like:
{Lady}
{Pooky, Noraa, Mushy}
{Gloria, Murdercat, Bell}
{Titus}
{Taylor, shellyc, Lapsa(DGB), Flea, UNOwen, Fred, Adorable}

And it was beautiful if Fred was scum. Oh, to answer your actual question: out of Laspa/Titus/Theta/shelly/Flea/UNOwen, I'd remove Titus, barely.

Okay, I really like this post, I thought you were defending Tayl0r’s strange push on you which didn’t sit right with me but I think now, I probably just misread you.

I kind of like DGB’s entrance and them sheeping me in Tayl0r as well as their interactions with Pooky.

[Gloria Cleary]

why would scumLLD do anything if town is currently self destructing lol.

Yes, that is a valid point.

[Gloria Cleary]

Curious on your read on me Gloria

I didn’t like your readslist nor do I understand your thought process in making it. I also find it odd that a lurker suddenly comes out with one and then pretty much goes back to lurking. It kind of reads like coasting with a lamisty readslist to not look like your actually doing that. Why do you even bother to make one and include players you have no read on? It’s interesting that you’re finally reading my posts. Is my read on you the only thing that you can think of to comment on?

I should requote it but it just looked like there wasn’t much thought process put into that list.

[Gloria Cleary]

Okay, I really like this post, I thought you were defending Tayl0r’s strange push on you which didn’t sit right with me but I think now, I probably just misread you.

what exactly do you think is good/town!AI about that post you quoted? since imo its just quite a regular reads explanation wall

I keep going back and forth on her. I thought she was defending Tayl0r shading her but then she had her low on her list. I do think it’s possible they could be buddies, because Tayl0r wanted her to be in the third slot, so if Tayl0r flips scum, it would make me more suspicious of Fidget.

[Gloria Cleary]

Taylor - TL, randomly defensive, seems to be sticking to guns. Smart enough to not create those specific associative tells imo.
Noraa - SL, can't forgive the over-defensiveness earlier and response to drilled, have considered play since and downgraded.

what do you think about noraa's later play that "downgrades" her? imo noraa's later play is much better than early flailing!noraa

UNOwen - scum. Previous post details this somewhere.
Mush - Town - seems proactive
Lady - Town - want to see more from her, and hope she's well soon <3
Shelly - TL, slot doesn't sit well with me on interactions still but the response to the hurt seemed genuine to me.
MC - Not sure, overconfident in reads.

Do you think overconfidence is completely NAI?

Pooky - SL, slot isn't sitting well with me, seems to be mostly shitposting and taunting.

Consider meta evidence that scum!pooky = less taunty and more lighthearted

Lapsa - SL, What the smeg even is this slot.
Theta - Null Seems rather middle of the road to me.

Middle of the road is how, imo, scum would ideally play here, as all elim'd town are vengeful

Fred - scum. Zden was lean, freds entrance was... well I had to triple check when they came in because it's like they were always here, and its 3 straight in at taylor.
Bell - TL. Reads well to me. Should probably go look at the points made against them at some point.
Fidget - Honestly, haven't been paying attention.
Gloria - See above.
Adorable - Forgot about them

Can you develop a little bit more on these last 4 reads? skim the isos, no matter how weak a read is, it's best to get it out there

+1

[Gloria Cleary]

Not an easy mode free win then.
Shelly thinks I am obvscum but will not try very hard to get me killed because she knows as soon as the scroll is in my hands it will be heading in her direction.

I'm not sure about shooting Adorable. I think the general OMGUS focus shows a fairly consistent perspective but from what she says Adorable has a meta of doing this which might mean she is playing it up here. Will be interesting to see how she responds to the HURT at least.

@Adorable, what other reads do you have besides Noraa? If you’ve already done this, then please link those posts.

[Gloria Cleary]

Now I am convinced Adorable is scum.

HURT: Adorable

fred why are you listening to the person that HAMMERED YOU?

do you TR fidget, if so, why?

Why wouldn't I?

No, I am not townreading Fidget.

Oh? What changed?

[Gloria Cleary]

I am a bit concerned about Fidget’s focus on Adorable. Why isn’t she more suspicious of Tayl0r? I definitely would be in her position.

@Fidget? Why are you more suspicious of Adorable than the person misrepping you and calling you “scum”?

[Gloria Cleary]

Now I am convinced Adorable is scum.

HURT: Adorable

fred why are you listening to the person that HAMMERED YOU?

do you TR fidget, if so, why?

Why wouldn't I?

No, I am not townreading Fidget.

Oh? What changed?

I was never townreading Fidget to begin with, so, nothing has changed in that aspect.

Those who are scumreading Fidget, please tell me why. I am not scumreading them.

[Gloria Cleary]

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

I don't really care if you mind this or not, but I have another readlist that reflects what I am thinking better than your random set of five that you just chose.

Town to scum:
MUSHSHAGANA, Gloria Cleary, Fidget, all players not on this list (null), Tayl0r Swift, Noraa

[Gloria Cleary]

Now I am convinced Adorable is scum.

HURT: Adorable

fred why are you listening to the person that HAMMERED YOU?

do you TR fidget, if so, why?

Why wouldn't I?

No, I am not townreading Fidget.

Oh? What changed?

I was never townreading Fidget to begin with, so, nothing has changed in that aspect.

Those who are scumreading Fidget, please tell me why. I am not scumreading them.

@Fred, please explain this as well as 4395.

If Fred flips scum then Bell and Adorable are spewed town.

[Gloria Cleary]

Now I am convinced Adorable is scum.

HURT: Adorable

fred why are you listening to the person that HAMMERED YOU?

do you TR fidget, if so, why?

Why wouldn't I?

No, I am not townreading Fidget.

Oh? What changed?

I was never townreading Fidget to begin with, so, nothing has changed in that aspect.

Those who are scumreading Fidget, please tell me why. I am not scumreading them.

That doesn't mean I was townreading them.

You’re scrolled anyway but I’d probably have voted you for this.

What about 4395? How do you explain that?

[Gloria Cleary]

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

I don't really care if you mind this or not, but I have another readlist that reflects what I am thinking better than your random set of five that you just chose.

Town to scum:
MUSHSHAGANA, Gloria Cleary, Fidget, all players not on this list (null), Tayl0r Swift, Noraa

I was townreading Fidget for a post previous to that one I made, but it was short lived for I crossed it out several days later when I reviewed that read.

So why Adorable over Fidget then and what happened to your strong Tayl0r sr? Did it suddenly just vanish?

[Gloria Cleary]

im seeing this as the solve aorn probably if town!fred
UNOwen - explained many times how this slot is obvscum
flea - feels like newbscum apathy in many posts, general consensus-y reads, trying to blend in which is really indicative of scum here
theta - has been in my poe since forever
one scum in {Noraa, taylor} - noraa's still pinging my scumdar with the weirdly fence-sitty posts, but taylor continuedly attacking pooky (who i believe to be town) doesn't sit right with me at all + I wanna sheep pooky a bit.
one scum between {adorable, fidget} - I'm not really following the "adorable is scum because they didn't townslip" from fidget. noraa/adora not s/s though.

outside chance of strong scum manipulating us, maybe in murdercat/bell. bell is a high priority reread and my SR there from d1 has been softened but bell leading on fred!town and asking everyone to sheep them seems like absurd confidence.

I do not know where you explained that UNOwen is obvious scum.

Why do you think Flea The Magician's post is 'general consensus-y'?

Since Theta Alpine is part of your Process of Elimnation, that implies that all players not on this list is townread by you. I would like some reasoning for why they are excluded from your Process of Elimination.

Finally, what you describe as "adorable is scum because they didn't townslip" is definitely not the only evidence brought forth by Fidget in his post regarding the matter.

@Shelley, why is UNOwen scum? There kind of null for me.

[Gloria Cleary]

So why Adorable over Fidget then and what happened to your strong Tayl0r sr? Did it suddenly just vanish?

What is this weird push on someone that has been hammered

I don’t understand why he suddenly wants to scroll Adorable when he’s been pushing Tayl0r like forever and I don’t understand his Fidget progression. In what world do you view this as a “push”?

Just because he’s hammered, that doesn’t mean we can’t understand his thought process on those three slots, does it?

[Gloria Cleary]

Insert post 4976 by Fredrick A Campbell

So why Adorable over Fidget then and what happened to your strong Tayl0r sr? Did it suddenly just vanish?

I received a case on Adorable, not on Fidget. As for my strong Tayl0r Swift scumread, I trust someone else (you or PookyTheMagicalBear) will follow through on it and give her the scroll. I don't trust that either of you would pass it to Adorable despite the case on her by Fidget, though.

I seriously don’t understand how you’re currently reading Fidget? I don’t understand how you can think her case on Adorable is credible and not be townreading her?

[Gloria Cleary]

Insert post 4976 by Fredrick A Campbell

So why Adorable over Fidget then and what happened to your strong Tayl0r sr? Did it suddenly just vanish?

I received a case on Adorable, not on Fidget. As for my strong Tayl0r Swift scumread, I trust someone else (you or PookyTheMagicalBear) will follow through on it and give her the scroll. I don't trust that either of you would pass it to Adorable despite the case on her by Fidget, though.

I seriously don’t understand how you’re currently reading Fidget? I don’t understand how you can think her case on Adorable is credible and not be townreading her?

Why would I townread Fidget over that case?

Do you generally take seriously people’s scumcases on players you don’t townread? Why?

[Gloria Cleary]

Maybe Fred is just an odd player and I’m just not getting what he’s saying?

[Gloria Cleary]

We're gonna get a lot of info out of a hopkirk flip and I have quite a few joint ISOs to do if he flips red. Vax, you think shelly and hopkirk have high partner equity?

Super high partner equity. If Hopkirk flips scum, shelly should be receiving the scroll posthaste.

So, shouldn’t you be tr Shelley based on this, now that Hopkirk flipped town?

[Gloria Cleary]

So, shouldn’t you be tr Shelley based on this, now that Hopkirk flipped town?

Nope, Hopkirk scum would have guaranteed shelly scum for me, but I don't think shelly is scum just because of Hopkirk interactions so my scum read on her remains regardless of his town flip, even if it did weaken my confidence a bit.

Why is Shelley scum?

[Gloria Cleary]

i am perfectly fine with adorable being handed the scroll

What are your other reads?

[Gloria Cleary]

Making a note here: Pooky can lead town after these flips. Pooky can even gloat and mock me for how wrong I was. I have seen the light. Just please keep the shitposting within safe-to-read-the-thread levels.

So what made you finally see the light?

[Gloria Cleary]

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

It's TSwift right now

That post is from over a week ago before he was hammered?

[Gloria Cleary]

Gun to head, I think Adorable could just be LHF rather than scum but it’s not a strong read.

[Gloria Cleary]

Adorable is quite a compromise lim imo. No one really strongly SRs this slot so handing there is 100% a compromise.

This is the main reason why. Compromise lims more often than not flip town.

[Gloria Cleary]

I'm getting caught up more on the definition than the underlying argument that since nobody is against Adorable dying, he's town.
I don't know. I'm not sure how I feel about how this game is going. I think it's eventually going to motivate me, but I'm just confused and trying to figure out who's doing what.

Yeah, probably.

Did Hopkirk tr her? I don’t remember.

[Gloria Cleary]

Don't lethal these people
Shelly
LAdy
Mush
MURDERCAT

Adorable

Gloria

I'd avoid lethaling but my read is weaker
PookyTheMagicalBear
Tayl0r Swift

Yep

[Gloria Cleary]

i strongly recommend fred passing taylor tbh, if fred is town.

green!fred establishes red!taylor

taylor starts off tr'ing there and then retracts the read when the wagon finally gains steam which is opportunism

+1

Bell, I think you’re probably wrong on Shelley because I find myself nodding at many of her posts. That’s generally a good sign to me.