Micro 975: The Shape of Water [END]

[Tayl0r Swift]

But would I push it with bad articulation after unintentionally misinterpreting it as scum? Because that’s the facts of what happened.

the facts are that youre scum?

[Tayl0r Swift]

btw im grumpy and like being left alone at night. anyone who disturbs my sleep will be told to fuck off.

[Tayl0r Swift]

btw im grumpy and like being left alone at night. anyone who disturbs my sleep will be told to fuck off.

Need a door sign that reads “DO NOT DISTURB. VIOLATORS WILL BE SHOT.”

no im not that grumpy. more like i live alone in the woods and dont like people.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: creature its very scummy not to vote in rvs apparently.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: creature its very scummy not to vote in rvs apparently.

You forgot to say F -1.

~Ma

oh jeez i know theres a VC right there, but its very late and i didnt look at that part of the VC.
well that made the vote wayyyy more fun

[Tayl0r Swift]

I didn’t like the tone of 56, I think town is more likely to just say “oops didn’t realize it was f-1”

yeah whereas my post was "oh oops didnt realize, well this is even better now.
isnt this the game where i caught you super early?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Yeah I think it's worded in a slightly more scum-indicative way.

oh yes your words are scum indicative even if your actions are exactly what i wxpect of town

[Tayl0r Swift]

Sailor Senshi
Derp
Gamma Emerald
Alchemist21
Tayl0r Swift
Creature
Punpun
Infinity 324

I think I'm approximately here as of this page

I'm letting the other scouts handle voting tho

-merc

hmmm this is a very brave read but im still inclined to townread you for your bravery.

[Tayl0r Swift]

26 was a joke

~pun

ooof this probably comes from scum

[Tayl0r Swift]

Those statements all seem good individually but I am concerned about the possibility krazy was laying tracks to misfade me off a punpun scumflip
UNVOTE: tho

this post assumes someone is scum and then presuppses a scumslip? this scenario is too strange, and then an unvote.hmm what? if you wanna convince drunk!me that ur town dont make this post. drunk!me knows.

[Tayl0r Swift]

derp you're not an alt of hewhoswims are you?

-M

no i am a terrible swimmer

this was actually pretty funny. my townlean here is just a spicy hot take off this one post, I'll need more to cement it

You think ability to be funny is something that's alignment indicative?

~pun

im always the funniest person in a game regardless of alignment

[Tayl0r Swift]

That just results in games padded with fluff

scumpoints for not wanting humor. im gonna assume youre in a super serious scum PT

[Tayl0r Swift]

well in that case VOTE: infinitygo me.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I'd prefer it not continue so I can read his posts without having to comb through a layer of weird

yeah theres already a layer of weird with my post, and i have dibs on the layer of weird.

[Tayl0r Swift]

its only 7 pages

[Tayl0r Swift]

^ is a strange interaction that went a bit too quickly from paranoia to buddy-buddy.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i can try to pocket you if you want. but i dont see what good it would do me. you have to promise me that youre town first though

[Tayl0r Swift]

I promise <3

Also it plays to your wincon to pocket me, I'm giving out free TR's

heh but by now you have probably figured out that i dont care about being townread

[Tayl0r Swift]

I promise <3

Also it plays to your wincon to pocket me, I'm giving out free TR's

heh but by now you have probably figured out that i dont care about being townread

Well maybe we'll find the scumz together!

pun, do you have any other thoughts? I feel like I pointed out most of what was in your last two posts already.

PEdit: aww <3 now I don't know what to make of the above lol

oof this scares me horribly because ive never seen you be cute like this, but at the same time im gonna let you pocket me for a bit because it is cute...

[Tayl0r Swift]

i very much doubt that both gamma and sailor are scum. i somewhat dislike gamma for defending creature here. i also am not ready to townbin derp for his posting thusfar.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i somewhat dislike gamma for defending creature here.

What’s wrong with it?

because although i dont know creature well enough to know if this play is AI, i think the consensus seems to be that even if creature isnt confscum for lurking, that its at least somewhat scum indicative. defending creature is an odd take.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i somewhat dislike gamma for defending creature here.

What’s wrong with it?

because although i dont know creature well enough to know if this play is AI, i think the consensus seems to be that even if creature isnt confscum for lurking, that its at least somewhat scum indicative. defending creature is an odd take.

That makes sense honestly. Thoughts on pun?

so far ive liked puns posts.

[Tayl0r Swift]

UNVOTE: derp
Feeling a bit better about him

what made you change your mind?

[Tayl0r Swift]

that seems like pretty NAI/easy to fake though

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: gamma

i was debating whether poe meant that alch was an ok wagon even if i think the read is weak and i dont really like gamma's vote or if i should ignore the wagon or even push back on gamma. im glad to see im not the only one who thought gamma's vote was strange though. it felt opportunistic to say the least.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I feel like you're trying to find a place to vote that's not you/creature. I didn't think you'd be satisfied by my reasons, I normally hate using bad logic as a scumtell and you never really did either iirc. My reasons were surface level enough that I think you'd have noticed it without me having to explain it.

yep this. like i feel that infinity voting alch would have been ok. but gamma hopped on without really contributing any analysis of his own.

[Tayl0r Swift]

It is defensive though. It looks like you were trying to undermine the other person’s read on the slot. I think “hatcheting” is the term Flavor Leaf uses for it. The tone of your post doesn’t seem like you were trying to get a read or a better understanding of Senshi, it seemed more like you were already a bit dismissive of their pun read.

thats not how i saw the post tbh. can you explain a bit more? what is hatcheting

[Tayl0r Swift]

That lines up with what I generally expect from scum Alchemist, he has a genuine solviness as town that he has to fake to varying degrees of success as scum
VOTE: Alchemist

you place your vote but theres no analysis of whether you think he's faking the solviness with success or just town. i guess you think hes not looking solvy? but theres no mention of why you think that. its a very surface level read

[Tayl0r Swift]

It's early so I don't have much data, but the things I've seen from Alchemist don't particularly inspire confidence in him yet
Mostly I just wanted to form a wagon, which is why I'm not too bothered by being voted rn, as the wagon just isn't on the person I'd originally planned

this seems like a walkback from your earlier more confident sounding stance. i agree with the rest actually though.

[Tayl0r Swift]

strong town

[Tayl0r Swift]

ive seen what i want to see from a town!infinity

[Tayl0r Swift]

we mindmelded over gamma.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i mean yeah its page 10, but i am sometimes able to identify townies pretty fast. especially given that we've played a bunch together recently and i feel good about knowing how to sort you.

[Tayl0r Swift]

am i wrong to townread you infinity?

[Tayl0r Swift]

hehe ok

[Tayl0r Swift]

The fact you say you mindmelded makes me a bit uneasy about this but whatever

why?

[Tayl0r Swift]

okay I was concerned but that last Creature post is probably town over scum

why is teh last post town for you? the vote screams scum to me.

creature why exactly is gamma scum? because gamma is active? the thread is like 11 pages... there are hardly any hyperposters.

[Tayl0r Swift]

so creature being active indicates creature is town here right? what does that mean for gamma who was defending creature?

[Tayl0r Swift]

I really have to meta creature more, but I do think creature's recent posts about gamma have been towny. I think gamma could've been WKing creature or defending him for good reason. Would still like to see the creature!scum game where he was active.

yeah actually youre right that even aside from meta those posts do probably come from town. still dont like the way the gamma vote was cast but i do like that we have a little wagon going.

one little nagging concern is that creature both said he'd hammer any wagon that got to L-1 (implying low effort) but then immediately started putting in some effort.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: Taylor Swift
My personal suspects for the buddy-buddy type people were Taylor and Infinity because of the mind meld issue I had, and their responses to Creature doing things make me think Taylor is scum over Infinity. Infinity’s approach felt pretty fluid, while Taylor balked and tried to FoS me for bad reasons.

id be more convinced by this omgus vote if i werent the only one who hasnt backed off.

[Tayl0r Swift]

The fact Infinity backed off would make him feel more like the unsub (using cop show terms lawl) on the surface. But his mindset seems consistent and sensible, while yours doesn’t. He’s continuing acting like he was because he’s town and that’s his approach to the game. But you reacted to Creature’s content by trying to create a situation where you could push me despite the situation changing.

hmmm? the main reason i pushed you was not because of your interactions with creature. its early game. i point out a bunch of random things that stick out to me. you are the author of a plurality of those things. at this point im townreading most of the game to varying degrees, and youre one of the three slots that im not townreading. the other two are lurkier.

[Tayl0r Swift]

sailor hasnt posted since being prodded. im engaging some with alchemist. why does it bother you so much that my vote is on you? i dont feel like im being unfair or tunneling you. its still very early and i dont have you as lockscum or anything. but im trying to sort you...

[Tayl0r Swift]

i didnt though. it kinda struck me so i asked people about it. anyway i feel like going back and forth on who said what isnt going to be productive. can we move on to other things? consider the question of you defending creature dropped fmpov.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i ask a lot of questions and point stuff out early on. im not always sure what it is about a post that pings me, so sometimes i just put a thought out and see if other people agree. if not im just crazy, as in this case it would seem.

[Tayl0r Swift]

as long as we are now on the other side amirite

[Tayl0r Swift]

This is too confident given the reasoning. Taylor, what if I told you that mindmelding with someone on a read isn't a surefire way to ascertain that they share an alignment with you? It depends on the context and how nuanced the context is, but regarding Gamma, it's not a very hard take to fake as scum at all.

i mean maybe. theres more to it than infinity just saying the things i was thinking. its hard to explain. but its also page 12 so everything is subject to change.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i mean i do enjoy being suspected and wagoned. im pretty awful at day 1. im trying some new things to see if i can do better, but it doesnt seem to be working. please do hold me accountable, but... im gonna say a bunch of things and some of them wont make sense necessarily. sorry!

as for backing off of gamma - i have a propensity for getting into massive shitfights, and they arent generally productive. that was me backing down to avoid derailing the thread.

[Tayl0r Swift]

infinity said a bunch of things i was thinking, so i townread infinity for it. ive never mindmelded with scum before, its my best tool for townbinning someone. it doesnt really change just because infinity is paranoid. if anything i feel better about it.

[Tayl0r Swift]

ive never mindmelded with scum before,

How long have you been playing Mafia games?

ive played maybe 20-30 games?

[Tayl0r Swift]

And you’ve never mindmelded with scum?

I find that hard to believe.

i have a unique thought process that scum cant or doesnt want to mimic. ill have games where i dont mindmeld with any townies either. but ive never mindmelded with scum and im a pretty good townhunter.

[Tayl0r Swift]

thats also a really odd thing to shade me for. regardless of alignment im not gonna lie about that sort of thing.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Why wouldn’t scum want to mimic your thought process

its not that they wouldnt want to its that my process is a bit atypical and so they dont have incentive to because its different than most townies. and they cant because theyve probably never experienced it. most people comment on how they cant follow my logic. its hard to mimic something you dont understand.

[Tayl0r Swift]

And you’ve never mindmelded with scum?

I find that hard to believe.

this feels like it was a trap question.

how many games have you played
ETIHER-->wow thats a small sample size you scum!
OR-->wow never? you scummy liar!

[Tayl0r Swift]

its not my fault almost everyone is townspewing. maybe i did give townpoints too freely though.

[Tayl0r Swift]

im still pretty confident in infinity and punpun town. somewhat confident in derp town. alchemist is the scummiest

VOTE: alchemist

[Tayl0r Swift]

im still pretty confident in infinity and punpun town. somewhat confident in derp town. alchemist is the scummiest

VOTE: alchemist

Why not us or Gamma?

~M

why not you what?

[Tayl0r Swift]

i did like krazy's energy. but im having a bit harder a time get a read on the hydra. im not sure about gamma. obviously i did pressure gamma a bit but mostly im unsure what to think now. i guess town?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Derp do you have an actual scumread on the Senshi hydra or are you voting it on policy?

well derp has to be honest that derp is slightly biased towards hydras, derp holds hydras to a higher standard for obvious reasons and when until that standard is met derp dislike them.
as a hydra it is so easy to be non commital to perhaps keep options open or just to be opportunistic especially if the dear heads do not disagree, but it can be difficult to determine whether the dangerous hydra is having an agenda or it is simply due to the 2 heads not agreeing

punpun my semi friendly hydra is a good example as they seem to have voted on pretty much everyone so far and seem to be jumping all around, if it was a single player then derp would find it very scummy but derp finds it difficult to read whether this is simply due to the fact that there are 2 heads or if it is rude and scummy behaviour

so when there is a mean looking cerberus then derp wants them to commit to something more in fact derp believes that the head that dropped was in fact the most active one so far (that was also nice enough to tr derp), so derp is sus of them on the slightly biased basis of them being a hydra that is simply not doing what derp expects a hydra to do

infinity/tayl0r feels weird to derp with the whole mindmelding thing and betrayal act

could u guys explain ur read and progression on each other?

these posts are both solvy and i think more likely to come from town than scum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

208’s a reasonable stance to have but it’s something scum could fake and use as an excuse to votepark on the slot.

hence the less confidence

[Tayl0r Swift]

I am leaning scum on derp but it is PoE mostly

~Venus

walk me through your PoE?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Willing to compromise on alchemist or maybe derp/V&M

why V&M?

[Tayl0r Swift]

[Tayl0r Swift]

i mean i have them as null but i got early gutpings from krazy and i have some actual scumreads id rather go for. i guess id rather do V&M than no lunch, but we have enough time to avoid that scenario.

[Tayl0r Swift]

for example right now im very skeptical of you. but we did mindmeld earlier, so... now im just confused.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i do like that you want to scumread me for townreading you and you get townpings from me scumreading you. you can be town again.

[Tayl0r Swift]

haha i know how PoE works but i meant walk me through why you townread everyone.

[Tayl0r Swift]

where does that derp vote come from?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Is this a meta thing cause I've definitely seen scum use more nuance than that. I agree that 315 is slightly towny.

Yes, he sounds here exactly like he played in Coalition (town) and completely different than he sounded in both Post Apocalypse (SK) and that TK anime game he was scum in.

~M

hmm are you sure? i dont have any meta on alch either way, but the play seems scummy on its face.

[Tayl0r Swift]

oof i never really dig into meta

[Tayl0r Swift]

derps vote is odd and is being lurky, but other than that i get town vibes.

[Tayl0r Swift]

what's up

UNVOTE:

taylor obvtown, infinity obvtown
i could do alchemist or gamma or punpun

hmm talk to me about punpun and myself? i dont feel like ive done anything to townspew

[Tayl0r Swift]

I can't bring up examples rn but I've gotten a strong gutread on you early as scum more than once before, but here you seem completely different. granted im not one for meta dives but its a read im ok with for now

punpun's heads converging on alchemist pinged me the hardest, but my earliest impression was that I disgree with most of their reads and their interactions with you seemed off as well

what about the interactions with me seem off? i dont like that you're hacheting townreads. i have absolutely the opposite read on punpun - ive liked that the heads are on the same page. why is alchemist town?

[Tayl0r Swift]

I’m really liking Infinity’s posts but punpun’s aggro Creature push is kind of weirding me out. @punpun, you have two people in this game who have meta on that slot including your #1 townread who don’t want to fade him, so why are you pushing him this hard?

You weren’t too concerned about Creature before I vetoed your Alchemist push.

And it reads quite differently to me than Infinity’s no vote deadline concern. I’m really not getting town vibes from that push at all.

VOTE: punpun

~Mars

Sigh, because there's no direction and we need a elim. Creature is our best lead, even if it's not confident. Why as scum do I need to go hard aggro on Creature, considering he's not even got us in the scumpool, and we were under no threat at the time?

~pun

what makes creature our best lead? creature seems to be a slot thats void but might be sortable later. seems like an easy slot to push through a mislim on

[Tayl0r Swift]

ok so based on the last page i think the bulge is town and the last few pages are making me question my TR on punpun.
punpun what reeks of bad faith about bulge's push?

[Tayl0r Swift]

how are you punpun?

[Tayl0r Swift]

tell me where youre at? what are you feeling beyond creature and omgussing bulge?

[Tayl0r Swift]

how are you punpun?

i'm ok

~pun

if youre gonna give such a curt answer then why did you insist on us asking? you arent making me want to ask you about your feelings by not sharing when i do

[Tayl0r Swift]

personally im inclined to believe the claim given my own role. i generally think scumclaims are mostly done by town and pointed out by scum. claiming to be the protagonist is a bit hmm tho. but there were a couple more posts i think come from town in the last two pages of mostly shitposting.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i will vote tomorrow before the polls close if i must. if a majority can be reached without my input, so much the better for democracy.

[Tayl0r Swift]

ive done a little digging and my role doesnt fit as well with the claim as i thought. and then between the flavor that other people dont seem to have and the lying about being the protagonist, hmmm. im ready to hammer i think.

[Tayl0r Swift]

7.75ish hours to go. ill for sure hammer rather than waste the day. any objections to me hammering now?

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: punpun may the afterlife be kinder to you than this one

[Tayl0r Swift]

i kinda want creature to go early because i think forcing an early claim there will also be helpful in sorting a null slot. bulge is fine other than that. alchemist should be early too imo.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i kinda want creature to go early because i think forcing an early claim there will also be helpful in sorting a null slot. bulge is fine other than that. alchemist should be early too imo.

I kind’ve liked that he was the one quoted the bunyip thing. I kind’ve liked his reaction to that. I just wish Punpun hadn’t of tried to ram a Creature misfade through, because they never would have been misfaded otherwise.

I really have no idea who’s scum. Both heads are slightly suspicious of Bulge but that’s about it.

~M

tmi slip that creature is town?

[Tayl0r Swift]

as i basically said yesterday, im an ascetic townie.

[Tayl0r Swift]

next up: creature

[Tayl0r Swift]

I don’t really like that this is what Taylor is focused on atm

i dont really like that youre trying to spin me as being focused on that. i pointed it out. if you really wanted to test me you should have waited for the response. youd have seen that i didnt follow up. i think scumslips are a bad way of sorting people, but i also think theyre important to point out because in the right context they can be meaningful.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Well, Alch is obviously clear and we do know that Bulge didn’t kill Gamma.

really? did i miss something?

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah disregard that, i figured it out.

[Tayl0r Swift]

did I miss something? why are so many people removing creature from their PoEs with the same confidence as if he were mechanically cleared

I don't think creature has the capacity to fake what he's done this game as scum. The way V&M defended creature on d1 also didn't feel like a scumbuddy defense, so I'm trusting their read somewhat.

which of the four posts couldnt be faked?

[Tayl0r Swift]

like i get that mechanically its a good play to go for me, but it doesnt make sense. as scum, why do i claim ascetic? it seems like strange double-think to both believe that im being honest about being ascetic but also that im scum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

It could look suspicious when people are blocked when trying to target you

except they wouldnt know why their actions failed

[Tayl0r Swift]

theres nothing for me to defend. the case on me is that people think im the best kill regardless of alignment.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I could be wrong on infinity here

what are your thoughts on infinity?

[Tayl0r Swift]

i have to say i disagree with you on W&M. krazy was kinda obvtown to me in the early stages.

[Tayl0r Swift]

That's E-1 btw, creature you can hammer when you're ready

Guess I can't be scum with anyone but Taylor now

this is such an odd post. is creature trying to get cleared assuming that im the elim today?

[Tayl0r Swift]

infinity seemed town to me early on but also looks complicit in v&m's narrative-pushing today. plus with an 8p game I'm inclined to trust claimed PRs so idk

why does the size of the game impact the likelihood of trusting a PR?
why is narrative pushing indicative of scum rather than just wrong townie?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Game literally ends if you're town here?

oh thats true. so why are people willing to elim me regardless of alignment just because it gives us info? we cant afford that.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i wanted to have my partner claim ascetic but my partner was afk.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah the playerlist was a bit unfortunate and we made a couple errors that made it tough. still think we did okish. im surprised how much this game revolved around night-play though. i thought boon preferred dayplay.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah i guess it was more the choices we made that made the PRs more relevant. oops.

well it was fun. well played town and thanks boon