Mini Normal 2173 | Bending | Game Over

[Tayl0r Swift]

second. VOTE: shelly

[Tayl0r Swift]

Wrong and wrong. Ezpz

whats wrong

[Tayl0r Swift]

im pretty sure its normal because im a daycop

[Tayl0r Swift]

Hmm, I think there's been a confusion, because my role pm says I can investigate players during the day phase to determine their alignment...

ok daycop me. what does it say?

[Tayl0r Swift]

I have a day-vig, so should I just shoot Taylor?

why would you dayvig the claimed daycop?

[Tayl0r Swift]

like srsly mad scummy to just vote and say nothing shows hesitation and fear

VOTE: dkkoba

[Tayl0r Swift]

I have a day-vig, so should I just shoot Taylor?

UNVOTE: good point

I’m going to give you my first impression to your approach this game, and you tell me what you think. You’re beginning to strike me as someone who is somewhat bent on driving public opinion against DkKoba. From implying that Koba is Scum because they can’t recognize a joke, to questioning their vote while pushing someone else, you are giving me the vibe that based on Koba’s activity this early in D1, that you are somewhat set in Koba as Scum. Is that correct?

No I’m just poking around, doing some detective work

Koba do you want to explain your reasons for voting Jackson?

oh right i was echoing the sentiment of others on that page and i wanted to put a vote. i thought i had explained that in my vote post.

mostly poking around for reactions which i did get. i dont like yours.

ping!

[Tayl0r Swift]

btw infinity is scum

[Tayl0r Swift]

hot take infinity is scummy and koba is townie
koba is *proactively* solving and poking around, infinity is *reactionary* readslisting

scumpoints to you for pretending this is a hot take. people have said the same thing on this very page.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: jacksonvirgo

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor where are you

Tryhard early posts followed by naked vote is definitely scum AI for Taylor
Town Taylor is more relaxed/less high effort

read this post pls. youre complaining that im not posting, and am hence lurking and not tryharding. but then you say im scum because im tryharding. and town taylor is sometimes low effort but sometimes not. it depends on the game and the playerlist

[Tayl0r Swift]

oh is this the game where infinity is scum?

[Tayl0r Swift]

well i blame random.org

[Tayl0r Swift]

shelly jackson and infinity?

[Tayl0r Swift]

infinity is scum and is also defending shelly pretty hard.

[Tayl0r Swift]

infinity is scum and is also defending shelly pretty hard.

I'm not really getting infinity scum here. What's the bullet points on this again?

infinity and i are usually on the same wavelength so infinity is usually obvtown to me. in this case it isnt happening.

[Tayl0r Swift]

eh bigger than infinity made it sound.

[Tayl0r Swift]

a townread on shelly

[Tayl0r Swift]

Generally no

this is true, except i dont think there are exceptions to the general rule

[Tayl0r Swift]

Inifinity gets good vibes my dudes, Tayl0r as well but to a lesser extent. VP I think is starting to get townie as well. Koba is just disgustingly scummy at this point, I thought it was how they played because nobody was calling it out but no more my dudes.

no i agree. i do not like that playstyle at all. not sure if its AI though

[Tayl0r Swift]

I'd be pretty impressed if koba was scum here, why do you think so jackson

why do you want it to be unimpressive rather than simply correct?

[Tayl0r Swift]

dgb did you roll scum here?

[Tayl0r Swift]

dgb did you roll scum here?

I did not, what I rolled is 23 pages of talking about shelly and koba.

ok what are your reads in general then?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor you seem to be on the periphery of things. Like when this whole koba vs. shelly thing happened you started SRing infinity for reasons that you disagree with their takes, and when this whole koba vs. jackson thing happened you started pushing DGB

It doesn't sit well with me and seems like to avoid conflicts and do some poking in the less focused-on slots so you stay under the radar

im very very overgamed atm so im a bit lurky everywhere. i feel like its town indicative for me to be doing my own sorting rather than just sheeping though? and i weighed in on koba vs jackson, saying that i agree with JV that koba has an unpleasant playstyle but im not sure its AI.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Confidence is thinking you have the right reads
Discrediting is where you destroy someones rep so that nobody will listen to what people say.

I think I have a right SR on people and start pushing said person. Destroying reputation is a very similar thing to attacking someone?

no. attacking someone's argument is fine: "you said x, and here's why scum would be more likely to say x"
discrediting someone is a shitty thing to do "youre dumb" "clearly im better than you so people shouldnt listen to you"

do you see how koba is doing the second one?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Just fyi, as site meta, we've moved away from using the word lynch.

Yeet or eliminate are good substitutions.

or lunch

[Tayl0r Swift]

so theres at least one scum in {shelly, dkkoba} based on their buddy-buddy interactions. im leaning towards either shelly or both. i think theres probably two scum in {infinity, koba, shelly} but not all three. i could see all three scum being in {infinity, shellly, koba, gerain}

[Tayl0r Swift]

oh but dgb is in this game and also a scumlean, so add her to the "could see all three scum being in" bin

[Tayl0r Swift]

I don't agree they're open ended, she literally said scum is likely 3 out of a group of 4. Don't see why targeting high activity slots or PoE is scummy, even this early (I love PoE). I get there's a playstyle barrier here, do your best to explain it. My only read on taylor is a light townlean since in a recently finished scum game she seemed to care more about what people thought of her.

Curious why you see this slot as townlean when she called you scum for pretty weak ass reasons.

A game we were in together just finished where I was town and I’m playing a bit differently from there I guess? Idk, I just think weak reasoning is NAI

i dont think this post comes from town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah but koba youre being emotionally manipulative. as town you shouldnt need to, and also its disruptive and causes disagreement. this is a team game, stop playing like an asshole.

[Tayl0r Swift]

so theres at least one scum in {shelly, dkkoba} based on their buddy-buddy interactions. im leaning towards either shelly or both. i think theres probably two scum in {infinity, koba, shelly} but not all three. i could see all three scum being in {infinity, shellly, koba, gerain}

that all the high activity slots? LOL

its not all the high activity slots. e.g. VP and JV

[Tayl0r Swift]

hmm what in those math posts makes math scum all of a sudden? because i see them as largely NAI fluffposts. the one serious post was fence-sitty but mostly in a "im not gonna generate any content at all" way.

[Tayl0r Swift]

hmm what in those math posts makes math scum all of a sudden? because i see them as largely NAI fluffposts. the one serious post was fence-sitty but mostly in a "im not gonna generate any content at all" way.

their complete failure in engaging with the game, and its not in a town way like gerain who is obviously too scummy to be scum, and the fluffposting isn't helping us and they're being dead weight.

ok but other slots are the same. they arent getting flashwagoned. and math lurks all the time. why is this time different?

[Tayl0r Swift]

ok but infinity is probably scum, so i dont see why solving that slot is an issue.

[Tayl0r Swift]

slightly more than random chance of being town. because math pushed infinity. the rest is mostly NAI. im open to being convinced but saying im dumb isnt gonna be convincing there koba.

[Tayl0r Swift]

ok now what made you unvote? youve explained zero of your progression. i dont understand why people scumread rather than nullread math. if we are pressuring a lurker thats one thing but i feel like there are better options and thats not what people said when voting.

[Tayl0r Swift]

you spent most of the last page interacting with me. how is it shocking that i continued to interact with you? also how am i white knighting? and none of what i said prevents math from posting or needing to post.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i feel like there are better options

Really? DGB is busy. gerain doesn't like D1s. not_mafia is not_mafia. zdenek is catching up. Math is a good slot to pressure atm.

ok explain why math is scum then pls

[Tayl0r Swift]

i feel like there are better options

Really? DGB is busy. gerain doesn't like D1s. not_mafia is not_mafia. zdenek is catching up. Math is a good slot to pressure atm.

and how is dgb lurking different than math lurking? or one of the other lurky slots

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor, why are you so interested in white knighting math?

[Tayl0r Swift]

i feel like there are better options

Really? DGB is busy. gerain doesn't like D1s. not_mafia is not_mafia. zdenek is catching up. Math is a good slot to pressure atm.

ok explain why math is scum then pls

do you think your vote should always be on the scummiet person

DGB is town imo. busy town make naked votes and reads and that's pretty indicative of it.

generally, yes. but im not asking why math is the scummiest person, just why math is scummy at all. and no one is answering me, yet that wagon appeared in a flash that suggested everyone saw something very scummy.

[Tayl0r Swift]

*always be on the scummiest person

taylor you also didn't respond to my lines here I said math is scum.

your lines where?

[Tayl0r Swift]

generally, yes. but im not asking why math is the scummiest person, just why math is scummy at all. and no one is answering me, yet that wagon appeared in a flash that suggested everyone saw something very scummy.

668 I felt like the game was going nowhere and suggested starting a wagon.

ok but why math and that doesnt explain why math is scum

[Tayl0r Swift]

ill happily drop my questioning of the math wagon when someone on the math wagon can provide a solid reason for scumreading math

[Tayl0r Swift]

i had nothing nice to say, so i said nothing at all. you behaving the way you are isnt fun but it probably isnt AI.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i dont understand why ppl on this site thing being critical of their analysis and putting pressure on them is bad like sorry i want to find scum i will use the thing called logic and emotional analysis. its effective ok!!

i havent seen you use logic this game. you using personal insults is not emotional analysis or logic. its just rude.

[Tayl0r Swift]

im not trying to be hurtful but i also dont tolerate bullies. you calling people dumb and saying that people shouldnt be listened to because youre better than them is frankly unacceptable, and if your reads are really that much better you can demonstrate it by simply being right and having reasoning people can see.

[Tayl0r Swift]

andres' reads feeel backwards to me.

im not asking for a wall on math. im just asking someone to explain why you suspect math, because i dont get it.

[Tayl0r Swift]

andres' reads feeel backwards to me.

im not asking for a wall on math. im just asking someone to explain why you suspect math, because i dont get it.

Is it scummy to you?
Looks p consistent to me based on boardstate.

consistent? what is it consistent with? having my scumreads as town and my townreads as scum suggests that either im completely backwards or andres is backwards or andres is scum. andres generally has good reads. ive never been completely backwards on my reads. that leaves andres!scum as the remaining conclusion.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Infinity, what's your take on Taylor's reaction here?

Still not really sure, leaning scummy

Taylor, how confident were you in your me/koba/shelly SRs before we started the math wagon?

the reads are almost entirely separate from the math wagon.

[Tayl0r Swift]

the town play is to question things that are odd. nothing i did changed the dynamics of the math wagon. but it did generate a whole bunch of other content. i dont see how you could accuse me of trying to stagnate the game. me taking on four people who hopped on a wagon at the same time for little reason is also hardly the sort of thing scum would want to do if trying to blend in.

[Tayl0r Swift]

How confident are they?

pretty confident, very confident for this stage of day 1.

[Tayl0r Swift]

hmm what in those math posts makes math scum all of a sudden? because i see them as largely NAI fluffposts. the one serious post was fence-sitty but mostly in a "im not gonna generate any content at all" way.

I feel like this tone doesn't match the confidence.

yes because the post youre quoting is about math. im confident about my scumreads. the two arent related very much.

[Tayl0r Swift]

mhmm. but not all of them are. and im still trying to make sure im not crazy. and if they are scum then i want to force them to say incriminating things.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Really unclear why Taylor and andres were so eager to defend what is pretty milquetoast play so far.

I think I’ve openly suspected Math this game?

Maybe I'm wrong. I thought you called the wagon bad.

personally the issue is not the wagon, but the way it formed. wagons are good. pressuring math is fine. but this is pretty standard play from math and ive yet to see anyone try to convince me that this is scum!math rather than just normal lurky math.

[Tayl0r Swift]

where I explained why math is scum and just binned it as "slightly town!AI" for no reason

andres why do you think a flashwagon doesn't catch scum? this is garnering multiple reactions

Maybe I should have phrased it better - pressure can definitely catch Scum. It’s just that there was no buildup to it when it happened. So unless Math creates a hole for themselves, you end up in a situation where others don’t join because the explanation just isn’t there.

However, what Tayl0r seems to have completely missed and I did was Scummy (and self-conscious) was Math admitting that the timing of their posting was off.

i didnt miss it. i checked the timestamp and it seemed like not enough time had elapsed for ndmath to be lurking, look at the thread, notice pressure, and start posting. i think it was like 3 minutes later.

[Tayl0r Swift]

it doesnt line up logically that they are voting here or like not even questioning u voting here.

I don't disagree. I mean me being on that list with two people I've pushed the most to get yeeted is some serious "VP is kamikaze scum", but oh well.

I take what I can get to yeet scummy people though. I always encourage scum to bus their buddies

i think you owe us an explanation of why math is scummy

[Tayl0r Swift]

Early townread for this mindset, as long as there’s a payoff

spoiler alert: theres yet to be a payoff

[Tayl0r Swift]

OK, so here is what I think is wrong with NDmath.

Biggest issue I see is a lot of IIoA posting and just general wall paper existence.

This early on post is a prime example of what I mean:

ndmath how do u read the last 3 pages?

There's pressure on shelley infinity and geraintm during the last three pages.
Shelley's been responding in what I think is slightly scumindicative for them.
I don't have a read on infinity.
Geraint hasn't given anything yet.

Also Jackson's fake claim is interested, but probably nai.

Math is asked how he reads a situation and recites a general fact that there is pressure happening and then gives a kind of softball read of shelly that seems to justify where his RVS vote was already at.


Further point against Math is that he feels like he is trying to pocket me and basically only interacts around shelly. I just don't like the stagnation on this slot.

Really unclear why Taylor and andres were so eager to defend what is pretty milquetoast play so far.

Hey Taylor...I already posted a case. If you're making a meta defense of Math, the burden isn't on me. I've never played with Math before.

I don't put a ton of stock in meta, but you're welcome to say this is Math's town play. I don't find it particularly protown, and it isn't really about lurking.

im not here to defend math. the case is eh. maybe. but this looks a lot like what ive seen from math as town. math is a wallflower who doesnt really do much. i dont know how to sort math and maybe math makes for a good policy lunch, but eh. i think we can probably do better.

[Tayl0r Swift]

im not here to defend math. the case is eh. maybe. but this looks a lot like what ive seen from math as town. math is a wallflower who doesnt really do much. i dont know how to sort math and maybe math makes for a good policy lunch, but eh. i think we can probably do better.

I'm open to being persuaded elsewhere. Haven't seen super strong cases today (but it is also D1, so we can only expect so much).

So are you saying you think this is Math's town meta or just his general play all the time, regardless of alignment? Does math usually tunnel?

I'll be curious to see what Math says about gamma's entrance.

i dont think ive seen math play scum. im just saying math always feels lurky and bland to me. i think math's takes as town are generally decent even though they are sparse though. so maybe bad takes = math is scum? not sure about tunneling either. anyway VP this is the sort of engagement re math i was looking for from someone on the wagon. shockingly it came from the person on the wagon i most strongly townread.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: NM
I'll probably always be okay with yeeting him so I'll just park this here

i dont like this

i do agree with this though. i want to townread koba for it but its kinda obviously a bad vote.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Im always on the lookout for whoever is trying to push LHF

they say while voting math

[Tayl0r Swift]

You remember how well that worked out last game? Learn2read m8
Any perceived offense from this post is intended

[Tayl0r Swift]

soo gamma, wanna do an infinity wagon? VOTE: infinity

[Tayl0r Swift]

thats interesting my vote had been on JV but i have JV as a townread. interesting how many scumreads there are of JV. wonder if me who put the vote down or present me is correct.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah im not remotely shocked that theres scum in that list. it would be more helpful to know whether there was a chance of multiple scum. @JV does it say there could be more than one?

[Tayl0r Swift]

gamma why the hesitance to join a proper wagon over a placeholder vote? i know you arent caught up but the game is stagnant.

[Tayl0r Swift]

what did your sig say?

[Tayl0r Swift]

it doesnt say "there is one scum"

[Tayl0r Swift]

Maybe I just naturally see Taylor as scummy because I'm now tinfoiling a JV, Taylor, Infinity team.

oh yep me and my top scumread are for sure buddy buddy

[Tayl0r Swift]

I was fake-claiming to be an Informed [redacted] to gauge reactions.

oh this is interesting too

[Tayl0r Swift]

based on later interactions a JV+koba team would be strange. it could be maybe planned or just based on traitor dynamics.

[Tayl0r Swift]

does anyone have a good read on how perceptive Taylor is in town games? I can't get a read on her indicated perceptiveness in this game

If I want to vig her, that means she's town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

does anyone have a good read on how perceptive Taylor is in town games? I can't get a read on her indicated perceptiveness in this game

what do you think of 976? It makes Taylor's other posts like a little weird, but I think it might just be personality.

i think all her posts come from town, personally

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah im generally hopeless at reading gamma because the things i use to read are not the things gamma does at all. my brain is not compatible with gammas brain. i think maybe it goes both ways .

[Tayl0r Swift]

does anyone have a good read on how perceptive Taylor is in town games? I can't get a read on her indicated perceptiveness in this game

what do you think of 976? It makes Taylor's other posts like a little weird, but I think it might just be personality.

i think all her posts come from town, personally

Scum you would think this too, though.

And we're in a weird spot, where if I start to town read you, I'm gonna think you're scum, so I can't really touch on you at all today without feeling biased in some fashion, so this is going to be interesting.

I don't think Gamma is scum at all here anymore, but I've been noticeably bad at reading them the past year or so.

im not sure if scum me has ever called myself town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

(not a trust tell!)

[Tayl0r Swift]

infinity has been scummy. im pretty confident in that read.

now i feel like scum me has to make a point of saying im town somewhere to avoid it becoming a trust tell. the main reason i wouldnt is that its boring! thats exactly what youd expect scum to say!

[Tayl0r Swift]

i kinda tr flavor now and its kinda funny why but i dont know if i can explain it

every time i start to townread koba they make a post like this and im back to a scumread.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i like you two talking, keep that up. I am noting Taylor's potential discredit of Dk's town read on me, which simultaneously can discredit both Dk slot and my slot.

I'm starting to want to Vig Taylor.

i think thats a good sign. im not you FL, i dont do that discrediting of townreads thing

[Tayl0r Swift]

infinity has been scummy. im pretty confident in that read.

now i feel like scum me has to make a point of saying im town somewhere to avoid it becoming a trust tell. the main reason i wouldnt is that its boring! thats exactly what youd expect scum to say!

fuck I was forming a response to this and I had a thought that caused a mental BSoD. I thought for a second Taylor might be an alt of a specific person but after checking shared games it doesn't make sense.
Anyway, it only starts broaching trust tell territory if you're aware of it and don't intend to break from it ever. I have a lot of differences in my play that could amount to trust tells but honestly I don't even think I have the power to manipulate at this stage
Also I know Flavor (back in the days when he was only know as boon) had some issues with trust telling in the past with self voting. So I think he's enjoying this.

yeah but given krazy's ban im hyperaware and i think saying "i never do this as scum" is a very grey area so i wanted to clarify

[Tayl0r Swift]

im reformed i try not to get into 1v1 shitfights anymore bc it clouds my reads :/

you keep putting off this promised readlist

[Tayl0r Swift]

does anyone know what the jackson wagon is at? is it safe to hop on, or will the day end?

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: jackson

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: jackson

You just said you TR'd me? Confuzzled I am

this is not a townie reaction to being voted by someone who said they townread you.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Around page 28, I think that Taylor is scum telling us Math is town.

could you explain it?

[Tayl0r Swift]

dgb you remind me a lot of yourself in the trials where you just sheeped popular views and nudged the most consensus incorrect reads. (dgb and i were scum together there). we were quite effective.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Your white knighting of him is otherwise inexplicable.

not white knighting. just questioning people about why this particular wagon.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Meta really is rubbish.

ok but set aside the fact that its exactly what you did in that game. its scummy on its face to sheep and gently encourage the consensus. and i happen to know that the consensus you're joining is pushing town (me). i dont see you solving but i do see you trying to nudge town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

?
im not even voting you and i dont think anyone else is either. i just want you to be solvy.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah but the only way day 2 isnt just as bad as day 1 is if we effort and solve.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I re-read the whole game and gave my reads.

ok thats true and i guess that kind of effort is town-indicative for you? given that i just played scum with you though, im not willing to townbin you based on one post. especially when youve just seen my scumgame and should be able to spot differences here.

[Tayl0r Swift]

hmm ok why do you scumread me?

[Tayl0r Swift]

oh hmm i could have sworn you egged someone on when they scumread me. thats what this whole thing is about. im going crazy apparently.

[Tayl0r Swift]

we can do better than gerain, especially since gerain should be come more sortable on later days.

[Tayl0r Swift]

koba can you explain why you scumread me?

[Tayl0r Swift]

gerain might be the scummiest of the deadweight but hes also gonna step it up later. ive played with gerain, he will play at least somewhat.

[Tayl0r Swift]

its also a really really bad list, which again tells me that infinity is probscum. infinity has better reads than that.

[Tayl0r Swift]

actually the fact that VP is even asking that question makes me want to scumread VP. i didnt say anything because i wanted andres to answer but... its a 5 person PoE. it would be shocking if there wasnt scum in there.

[Tayl0r Swift]

its also a really really bad list, which again tells me that infinity is probscum. infinity has better reads than that.

You have one completed game with me. I sometimes have awful reads.

i think its more than one by now isnt it? id say i have a fair amount of meta on you.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: koba this is my only actual scumread atm, I don't want to lim a low-info slot except as compromise.

I find it weird you have one not great scum read after 40+ pages

Unfortunately it's mostly the norm for me on d1

im usually happy with infinity on day 1 and can townbin infinity, but im not going to contradict something thats verifiable. maybe im usually happy with infinity because we are both townhunters and so having 1 solid scumread isnt that odd. its not the 1 scumread that pings me though. although usually when i have one scumread i frame it as having a PoE, its odd to state it that way.

[Tayl0r Swift]

If you think my reads are wrong, talk to me about them. I think there's a good chance they're wrong, because this game has kinda sucked in terms of reads people. I have some strong townreads: JV, VP, Mark, Gamma to some extent. Everyone else is like "they've done a couple towny things so I'm not super interested in limming them d1"

i think your playstyle is like mine. and my playstyle makes it almost impossible to sort gamma except by VCA/associations. so im surprised that you're townbinning gamma here.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i dont like infinity's townlist or scumlist.

[Tayl0r Swift]

also getting some serious scumpings from VP the last couple pages.

[Tayl0r Swift]

+1

also im getting some oblivious townie vibes from mark atm

[Tayl0r Swift]

VP townread is largely tone

hmm can you point to a specific post and what about it was townie in tone?

[Tayl0r Swift]

only scum need to eat.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Hi I kinda ghosted for a full 24 hours did anything major happen

ha i get it. a halloween pun

[Tayl0r Swift]

so where im at rn:

{me, andres, JV, mark}
{gamma, dgb, FL}
{NM, gerain, zdenek}
{VP, infinity, DKK}

i think max 2 of the bottom tier are actually scum though probably. i think infinity is my most confident scumread, but i could go DK or VP. also pretty sure mark is town. ive seen mark's scum game, this aint it.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: infinity

[Tayl0r Swift]

cant say much atm, but no.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I find it pretty silly the number of garbage slots you have ranked above me in your list Taylor.

But, infinity is in my null pile and we absolutely need to get a claim here soon so we can move forward.

Why should I join this wagon?

the tier above you is null. you are in the scum tier. i feel like youre being opportunistic and manipulative. but im not dead set on you being scum or anything, its day 1.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i feel like youre being opportunistic and manipulative.

Who am I manipulating? I don't follow.

What's the bullet point case on infinity?

well right now me for example, by dropping the bit about opportunistic. which is the more important bit. your reads dont feel genuine. it feels like you hop on whatever wagon is convenient and often place votes to derail town momentum, like when you voted gerain a bit ago.

[Tayl0r Swift]

taylor thinking infinity and me can be scum together somehow

its not a solve. i dont think you three are the scumteam. i just think you three are the scummiest people individually.

[Tayl0r Swift]

its very lazy. there is actual scumhunting to be done and youve parked on a policy lunch. as town starts moving towards real wagons, you start deflecting pressure back onto gerain.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Nah, you have.

have i pocketed you yet FL?

[Tayl0r Swift]

taylor thinking infinity and me can be scum together somehow

in your case you could be town, but if so i dislike your playstyle and dont like the way you approach the game. its a team game but youre playing like everyones the enemy. dont be an ass and youll find that suddenly people like you more and are more willing to cooperate.

[Tayl0r Swift]

the case on infinity has been made repeatedly by multiple people

[Tayl0r Swift]

Nah, because if I town read you, I’m gonna Vig you this time, because that’s when you’d actually be scum

ok so you scumread me then?

[Tayl0r Swift]

its a very strange chainsaw defense coming from VPB. if either infinity or VPB ever flip scum, flip the other one too.

[Tayl0r Swift]

If they’re scum together, it’s a hatchet. He’s discrediting you, but he isn’t pushing you

ok sure. but thats what i mean when i say VPB is being manipulative.

and gerain is a dumb wagon since the slot becomes increasingly solvable with time. if you want a policy lunch, go push NM. but im not voting for a policy lunch except maybe as a deadline compromise.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Nah, because if I town read you, I’m gonna Vig you this time, because that’s when you’d actually be scum

ok so you scumread me then?

No, i haven’t town read you quite yet, so

well at least im not gonna get vigged any time soon then

[Tayl0r Swift]

im a tonereader mostly. normally i mindmeld with infinity, and infinity generally comes of as obvtown to me. that isnt happening here. and the tone feels off. for more concrete things, see my iso.

[Tayl0r Swift]

the reason i commented on you as well as infinity is that you complained that you were low in the list and asked about infinity. so i gave you reasoning for both. dont try to spin it as me discrediting you. thats me engaging with you.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VP Baltar

Marky Mark

T Swizzle
Andresvmb
Jackson

Gamma Emerald
Not Mafia
Geraintm
Zdenek
DrippingGoofBall
Dkkoba
Infinity
_______

None of my scum reads are that strong, so that bottom layer is kind of Neutral-Lean Scum territory.

leaving our options open are we?

[Tayl0r Swift]

1463 is a townpost. I think taylor is town from the last few pages, she seems earnest and not pushing an agenda.

this also seems very random. like im not sure why infinity chooses this moment express a townread of me. if im making a good faith push on infinity that infinity isnt disagreeing with, what does that mean for infinity's alignment?

[Tayl0r Swift]

i was about to call you out for ignoring it, so it's good you brought it up.

well i did ignore it at first... im not sure what to make of it really and was hoping someone else would comment.

[Tayl0r Swift]

something about taylors posting patterns seems familiar. Have we played before?

uh i dont think so. i played on another site a few years ago, but dont remember you. do you have alts that might have been in any games with me?

[Tayl0r Swift]

VP, Marky, and T Swizzle should all speak for themselves.

Andre is there because they hard town read me and pocketed me.

Jackson is there because the retraction to the info I can see coming from Town, and I liked their last string of posts.

I’m sorry, what? Point to where I stated I had a hard TR of your slot.

oh, quit playing, you know I'm you're biggest town read, duh

Not even close. I don’t know where you’re getting this from.

im in the same boat as andres. if townies start dropping like flies and FL is townleading, then its time for FL to die. but from what ive seen that can happen when FL is town too. i only know FLs scumgame by reputation, but i imagine that its similar.

[Tayl0r Swift]

it's also interesting Taylor said that while voting alongside me.

i mean i have you as a townread. i just know nothing about your scumgame except that its supposed to be good. so *shrug*

[Tayl0r Swift]

what did my 1385 have anything to do with that post?

I’ll lay out what I’m saying in more detail - up until when I put my vote down for Infinity, they were my top SR. I have about a similar reads list to Tayl0r, except I have Koba higher and you lower. Marky Mark thought that you focusing so much on the potential for a traitor claim was NAI. I actually didn’t. It’s an easy way to generate content, seem paranoid, but not reveal too much about yourself. You also pushed hard on JV, who I think is likely Town now. You’re doing the same with Infinity. And they have all followed somewhat aggressive pushes from me, while also casting some shade onto my slot (saying that you think I’m capable of making a push that fits a particular game state or that sets me up well as Scum). If you were thinking about turning against me later in the game, after a Town flip of either JV or Infinity, this would be the way to do it.

i should also see that im noticing this. but the problem is this is what you did in board game mafia as town, and so in terms of actions i dont know how to sort you. in terms of tone you do feel a bit different so i dont really know. hence town but with the nuller town slots. you can be town for now but you arent locktown by any stretch.

[Tayl0r Swift]

it's also interesting Taylor said that while voting alongside me.

i mean i have you as a townread. i just know nothing about your scumgame except that its supposed to be good. so *shrug*

I actually wrote a scum guide that will help you catch scumFlavor because it goes into the scumFlavor mindset.

link?

[Tayl0r Swift]

1463 is a townpost. I think taylor is town from the last few pages, she seems earnest and not pushing an agenda.

this also seems very random. like im not sure why infinity chooses this moment express a townread of me. if im making a good faith push on infinity that infinity isnt disagreeing with, what does that mean for infinity's alignment?

No it’s a garbage push because it’s based on meta from 2 games. But I’ve tried to make those pushes before too so

Also I chose this time because that’s when the read developed “last few pages”

what did you notice in the last few pages that was different?

[Tayl0r Swift]

has anyone noticed that koba pops in and out at odd times? theyre always around when theres pressure on, but often not here when attention is elsewhere.

[Tayl0r Swift]

id go for koba today.

[Tayl0r Swift]

beeeeeeeeeeeeeetle juice

love it. call out koba for betelgeuse and they show up within minutes to question it.

[Tayl0r Swift]

what did you notice in the last few pages that was different?

You’ve been engaging people and pressuring who you think is scum. Honestly I hadn’t seen much scumhunting from you until the last few pages, mostly just saying reads.

yes we've moved out of the early game now. early game bad.

[Tayl0r Swift]

what did you notice in the last few pages that was different?

You’ve been engaging people and pressuring who you think is scum. Honestly I hadn’t seen much scumhunting from you until the last few pages, mostly just saying reads.

yes we've moved out of the early game now. early game bad.

[Tayl0r Swift]

if no one notices that i townslip the first time i have to keep doing it until i get towncred.

[Tayl0r Swift]

sorry youve caught me and i just dont know what to say.

[Tayl0r Swift]

actually i was just thinking how its very sus that andres is so confident in townreading you FL

[Tayl0r Swift]

I very much believe you think you weren’t caught up, however, I think you actually didn’t miss that much, so when other people push the game like you haven’t been here, such as Infinity implying they don’t think they can do anything and maybe if Gamma comes and catches up they will, however, I don’t think you were behind enough for Infinity to react that way.

I mostly just wanted to see what gamma's reads are so I could have someone to bounce reads off of.

ping, not quite sure why

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah but why should infinity's reads should depend on you?

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah but why should infinity's reads should depend on you?

This is really frustrating because it feels like you're not even trying to understand me. Engaging with people is how I play mafia. In difficult games I look to people I've played with a decent amount before or who I have similar styles to in order to get a second opinion. One of the reasons I'm struggling so much here, as I thought was pretty apparent, is that I don't have that.

i feel like we normally have that. thats one of the reasons ive been so hard on you. im not trying to twist anything you say. im sorry if it feels harsh. i just normally feel like i can work with you, but here i dont see your perspective. whats going on? whats different about this game thats making it difficult?

also, what are your thoughts right now about the game? doesnt have to be a readlist, but give me something to work with.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah but why should infinity's reads should depend on you?

This is really frustrating because it feels like you're not even trying to understand me. Engaging with people is how I play mafia. In difficult games I look to people I've played with a decent amount before or who I have similar styles to in order to get a second opinion. One of the reasons I'm struggling so much here, as I thought was pretty apparent, is that I don't have that.

i feel like we normally have that. thats one of the reasons ive been so hard on you. im not trying to twist anything you say. im sorry if it feels harsh. i just normally feel like i can work with you, but here i dont see your perspective. whats going on? whats different about this game thats making it difficult?

also, what are your thoughts right now about the game? doesnt have to be a readlist, but give me something to work with.

In haunted village we barely even talked, in matrix decipher you were scum. What's happening this game is that I'm lost and don't have scumreads, and I don't really understand how to follow my townreads' logic, which is making it hard for me to engage with them. Plus there are a bunch of slots that are just unsortable because they don't post content. This game just sucks.

who are your townreads?

[Tayl0r Swift]

1401 is where I'm at, though tomorrow I want to reevaluate. Andres and VP specifically I feel like I could maybe come to a better opinion of by ISO'ing.

im curious about gamma too. why is VP at the top if you think you need to re-evaluate?

[Tayl0r Swift]

it kinda feels like a lot of your reads are a bit lazy, but if youre struggling to get invested in the game then that makes sense anyway. what can we do to help you buy in?

[Tayl0r Swift]

i hate monkeys.

[Tayl0r Swift]

especially *vintage* monkeys

[Tayl0r Swift]

i feel a bit better about infinity now. i dont like at all that VPB is pushing on infinity and promising to go after me tomorrow on a green flip. thats setting up a chain of lims.

[Tayl0r Swift]

tone

[Tayl0r Swift]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: VPB

Cool. Very serious about this. VP is uncheeky scum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor also spent every opportunity cutting into the geraintm wagon, claiming we are going to get a miracle performance from them tomorrow. Wants to keep the game state unsteady right up to deadline.

hmm now youre misrepping me to discredit me. thats a bad faith push.

[Tayl0r Swift]

you arent subtle, A50. all youre doing is proving how old you are.

[Tayl0r Swift]

how long until deadline? ill compromise on gerain but prefer koba big time and not sure where i stand wrt infinity now.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I just iso-ed Taylor and there isn't a ton of variance in their reads. They could just be a cocky player, but it's weird to me to see that kind of confidence on D1

i re-evaluate a lot but there just hasnt been a lot to cause me to change. the big changes were light town-->scum-->light town maybe on you, and infinity. not sure what to make of koba, but its very tempting to just scumbin.

[Tayl0r Swift]

im here and can talk to you if you want

[Tayl0r Swift]

hehe i cant read gamma. the things i look for are things gamma doesnt do. sometimes things will ping me as scummy or townie, but usually i think i wind up being wrong. lemme take a look

[Tayl0r Swift]

after a (very) quick skim of gamma's iso i will say that i dont like that while gamma isnt really getting caught up gamma seems to use "im not caught up" as an excuse every time tough questions are asked. gamma's only votes have been on NM and gerain which is pretty weaksauce.

[Tayl0r Swift]

after a (very) quick skim of gamma's iso i will say that i dont like that while gamma isnt really getting caught up gamma seems to use "im not caught up" as an excuse every time tough questions are asked. gamma's only votes have been on NM and gerain which is pretty weaksauce.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Town: shelly, koba, VP, mark, jackson

so you think this game has been one massive town vs town conflict so far lmao.

this post strikes me too. its shading townreads without pushing on you or any of the townreads (shelly was voting for NDmath at the time and her next vote restates that vote in large font). shelly's only votes were on andres in rvs and math. she used hurt tags for a pseudovote on VPB. this was a super quick skim where i mostly looked for things that stuck out visually, like votes and read the positioning around votes. shelly especially looked cautious around her votes, like she wanted to make sure the optics were right rather than the scumhunting were good.

[Tayl0r Swift]

hmm im not sure what the second take means. if im reading it right then shelly is saying shes no longer confident in scumreading vp because other people said not to? who is reconsidering? who is confident? i realize you didnt write the post but i dont know what it means

[Tayl0r Swift]

This entire game is just people who are really good at scum and people who don't do anything d1. No matter it's impossible to find a good lim.

thats sorta what makes it fun.

[Tayl0r Swift]

vp me feeling better about infinity has nothing to do with you joining the wagon and everything to do with infinitys posts which made me feel better about infinity. its mostly tone/gut. infinity feels genuine in being a bit confused and lost. im willing to go there at deadline but im no longer confident at all that infinity is scum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

vp me feeling better about infinity has nothing to do with you joining the wagon and everything to do with infinitys posts which made me feel better about infinity. its mostly tone/gut. infinity feels genuine in being a bit confused and lost. im willing to go there at deadline but im no longer confident at all that infinity is scum.

Tone tone tone.

I hate it and avoids accountability.

PLUS, it's just false to say it had nothing to do with me. Here is your first comment that you were "feeling better" about infinity:

i feel a bit better about infinity now. i dont like at all that VPB is pushing on infinity and promising to go after me tomorrow on a green flip. thats setting up a chain of lims.

its two separate points. im feeling better about infinity and worse about you.

[Tayl0r Swift]

the big changes were light town-->scum-->light town maybe on you, and infinity.

I find this an ad hoc explanation.

This entire interaction over infinity and myself feels very incoherent as I've pressed you about it. Are you feeling better or worse about me currently?

on the confidence scale, worse. on the town scale, better.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I'm gonna be generous for now and take your word since I won't have the ability to deep dive today. You're committed to which yeet today?

I'm going to have to cut off my responses in a few hours, and will put my vote back on infinity if that's what's needed to force a claim. I think that's got to happen today or we are going to end up rushing a yeet through last minute without a claim.

im not committed. i think my preference might be you or koba. actually gamma looks phat atm. id compromise on infinity or gerain.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I’m mia today, but I’ll try to squeak in when i can

is mia an alt of yours thats a mouse?

[Tayl0r Swift]

my perspective is that fun and winning are only meaningful if VP Baltar is dead.

[Tayl0r Swift]

oof thats too much pressure. i think id go for gerain cuz infinity is playing and i kinda ish think inifinity could be town atm.

[Tayl0r Swift]

but if i VOTE: dkkoba thats L-2 i think

[Tayl0r Swift]

oof thats too much pressure. i think id go for gerain cuz infinity is playing and i kinda ish think inifinity could be town atm.

This is on the money in general terms, although I'd take it a step further and say if geraint, then why not N_M?

well i can think of one reason for not going for NM

[Tayl0r Swift]

Pray tell?

nope. its in the thread though

[Tayl0r Swift]

hehehe

[Tayl0r Swift]

im town and anyone who doubts this statement is scum and ill deathtunnel them

[Tayl0r Swift]

(there is no way scum will let one of their own go today)

This looks like he’s trying to tell his partners to not let him go down today. Scum don’t have daytalk, right?

in the post above FL knew scum dont have daytalk. why feign uncertainty here?

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: gerain

[Tayl0r Swift]

29.5 hours to go. my vote puts gerain at L-2 i think.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: infinity

[Tayl0r Swift]

I'm gonna wait until everyone reacts first but im leaning thaf way

scum claim

[Tayl0r Swift]

Thought u already read me as scum?

i do. that doesnt mean i cant find additional reasons for doing so.

[Tayl0r Swift]

either way koba hopping on after the claim is a bad look, so VOTE: koba for now.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i think theres a chance that both are town but in that case i dunno why dgb would out.

[Tayl0r Swift]

u are so fucking bad taylor if u are town here like really terrible. grudge tunnels are not a good look

thats not acceptable language. please dont be a bully.

[Tayl0r Swift]

either way koba hopping on after the claim is a bad look, so VOTE: koba for now.

u really think that claim was towny?

yes. i think if theres someone claiming a guilty its fine to claim early. someone had even asked for a claim iirc.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Result

result implying scum is a guilty result.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Result

result implying scum is a guilty result.

my sweet summer child.

do you see how you arent saying anything constructive but only shading and insulting me?

[Tayl0r Swift]

It's wine, but I didn't think scum would send a low-activity slot to do the kill

Yeah I think this is Town, also does a Detective show as a positive to a gunsmith?

ya

[Tayl0r Swift]

im asking the people who are purely basing their case on me based on that

who is doing that?

[Tayl0r Swift]

A50, I claimed mason with YOU,

yesterday you claimed mason with NM

[Tayl0r Swift]

I’m neutral on Infinity because I’m at the “too scummy to be scum” point with them.

what do you think the odds are that both infinity and dgb are sucm?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor if there's scum outside {n_m, A50, VP, DGB, koba} who is it most likely to be?

you i think.

[Tayl0r Swift]

could be Nm or FL

[Tayl0r Swift]

i dont think A50 should be in the pool. A50 is always town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

im asking the people who are purely basing their case on me based on that

This is just plain misrepresenting me if this was aimed at me, as a lot of my case wasn't even just the discrediting alone.

i dont think anyone scumreads koba based on discrediting/personality alone.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Why?

random.org really likes A50?

[Tayl0r Swift]

im asking the people who are purely basing their case on me based on that

This is just plain misrepresenting me if this was aimed at me, as a lot of my case wasn't even just the discrediting alone.

i dont think anyone scumreads koba based on discrediting/personality alone.

sure then why

youre overaggressive, shading everyone, discrediting people (especially anyone who dares to suggest you might not be town), youre uncooperative, you keep promising things that you dont deliver (like reads lists), and your reads when they are offered seem backwards. your play is clearly anti-town. when called out, you double down on aggression and personal attacks, which implies that you arent interested in working with the town. ergo scum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Why?

random.org really likes A50?

No but seriously why

A50 is just always town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

im asking the people who are purely basing their case on me based on that

This is just plain misrepresenting me if this was aimed at me, as a lot of my case wasn't even just the discrediting alone.

i dont think anyone scumreads koba based on discrediting/personality alone.

sure then why

youre overaggressive, shading everyone, discrediting people (especially anyone who dares to suggest you might not be town), youre uncooperative, you keep promising things that you dont deliver (like reads lists), and your reads when they are offered seem backwards. your play is clearly anti-town. when called out, you double down on aggression and personal attacks, which implies that you arent interested in working with the town. ergo scum.

ok have u considered thats literally me all the time?
Minus rhe fact ur blatantly lying abt the lack of delivery
can u explain how my reads are backwards?
how is my play "clearly anti town"

an yes when someone calls me scum im gonna say they're wrong dunno what u expect me to say. "Oh you're maybe right haha let me entertain your clearly wrong theory!"

i sincerely hope that isnt you all the time. for your sake.
what are your reads then?
you seem to scumread townie people and townread scummy people. like most of the time when i have a read you have the opposite read.
you dont cooperate with people and are aggressive and rude. you arent working with the town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

koba the way you post muddies the waters and makes it harder to solve.