Normal Game Balance

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In my opinion, normal games (specifically mini-normals) have become overly townsided, often as part of the review process.

If this is a commonly held sentiment (i.e. not just me and a handful of others) then this seems to me like something that should be redressed for the sake of the normal queue. Consider this an info-gathering exercise to see if (1) there actually is a widespread perception that mini-normals are townsided and (2) as a sampler for interest for those who would be interested in playing in mini-normals that abide by all the rules of normalcy but may not be approved for balance (due to the bias towards townsided setups).

In the case that (1) is true, I think the NRG needs to take that feedback on board and work towards countering the townsided bias present. In the case that (2) has significant or moderate interest, I may run a game/a series of games in the mini theme queue that will be normal for all intents and purposes, but will be balanced by my standards rather than the current NRG standards for balance.

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NB: should maybe have said in the OP, but I’d appreciate if any long standing members of the NRG didn’t vote in the poll, I’m looking specifically for the opinions of those who play in the normal queue but who have little to no say over which setups are approved for it

edit: autocorrect issues

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What does "NB" mean?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nota_bene

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Why is the number of games being won by town/scum respectively more important than whether scum felt like they had an incredibly unpleasant uphill battle in the games they won and town had no real sense of victory in the games they won because everything was stacked in their favour?

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Right: my point is that’s a bad criteria to use. If towns consistently play like shit and win 50% of the time because they’re loaded with power then that’s a strongly townsided group of setups. And the only way you’re going to know if people are experiencing that in their games is asking them, as I’m doing here.

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And correspondingly, maybe those setups are townsided and everyone’s fine with it, but if they’re not (even if only a significant minority are not) then there should be some form of alternative available to those people who are dissatisfied.

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Can you grab some recently completed games and discuss them and why they are townsided?

Sure! I can respond to the other points you/implo are making tomorrow too, but for some reason I always end up starting this type of conversation when it’s like 3am local time for me.

But to take, as an example, the most egregiously townsided game I’ve seen recently, have a look at this: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84455

Scum, for all intents and purposes, won that game. They played better, they killed PRs, they invited conflict at the town, bussed when necessary, NOBODY had a correct solve by the time lylo rolled around. What happened? Town won because there was a bulletproof vengeful in the game on top of a vig and scum went from winning to losing with the snap of a finger. It’s a result that was deeply disappointing for scum, and led to several (maybe the majority?) of the town stating that the game should have been a scum win/that we would consider it a scum win. That game was ultimately satisfying for not very many people at all. That’s a problem.

Like I said, that’s the most egregious example I can think of recently, but in my recent and fairly regular playing of mini-normals, it’s not an isolated experience by any means.