Silent Star 3: Royalty

[Isis]

VOTE: skitter30

skidder why are we joining games together less than random chance T_T

[Isis]

oh doubleday

[Isis]

Gypyx getting his name misspelt was a pretty big dis from Hectic and I can't say for 100% it wasn't intentional.

I kind of want to lethal Gypyx and Infinity324 here so that I can exclusively claim 'he' as a pronoun.

This is town

[Isis]

@Isis - do you prefer being town or mafia?

I prefer being town but the preference is narrowing month by month


Jessie, why did you claim VT right away?

It's possible the mafia made pregame choices and it's fun to be curious about it but I don't think Hectic would do pregame cult shots without informing us, so it should still just be "vote scummy people".

[Isis]

I didn't see the "everyone's a VT" announcement. He didn't do one of those in SS2 I think so maybe there's a mechanic that makes it more important, like the scum making two kills at night which would be problematic if someone could claim vig

[Isis]

WAIT POOKY WAS THE RECRUITER?
AND HE DIDN'T PICK ME?
VOTE: POOKYVOTE: POOKYVOTE: POOKY

[Isis]

When RC rolled scum in setups without daytalk he always wanted to discuss strategy pregame in the scum PT without being considered to be confirmed, it seemed to raise some interesting questions.

Daytalk is just more fun and all setups should be daytalk imo and that ducks the question.

pedit: I don't get why games should have a set start time? Maybe shifty closed bastard games should though, I guess.

[Isis]

I was disappointed to not get a bride role but if everyone is VT maybe there is a way I can still acquire a bride role

[Isis]

infinity you're supposed to make a joke or personable comment this is

mafia

there are

rules

[Isis]

[Isis]

Ydrasse's avatar used to show a mage but now it doesn't; I think that's what Hopkirk is referring to Flea

[Isis]

that's super creepy cause I was thinking that it would be cool if you had an animated avatar like, less than an hour ago
I don't think that's a resonance I'm supposed to townread because it has nothing to do with your alignment, though

I usually don't prefer animated avatars but I've thought about animating mine cause the source is supposed to be animated.

[Isis]

I am allpowerful now

[Isis]

I have evolved
To my ultimate form

Morning Tweet, will you marry me?

[Isis]

femboi please I think I have some say over how members of the wedding party dress

[Isis]

Wait I wanna go to the counter wedding

[Isis]

I can wear a mask I'll just be this mysterious person you won't have to know that it's the person you belonged with the person meant to be up at the altar there with you, you can blot it out, tell yourself it isn't so, it's not so

[Isis]

I want to break this setup with weddings

[Isis]

if this game has a dance mechanic and I get to marry Ydrasse I will achieve a win condition that wasn't in my role PM

[Isis]

I figured out what 92 meant the fourth time I read it.
I am now happy about what 92 means.

[Isis]

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

[Isis]

that's how Pandora thinks I should respond

[Isis]

also it started with lots of "enter"s but those don't show up in forum posts if they're leading whitespace. I think that was meant as "yesses"

She was like looking at the enter key and hitting it specifically it was really cute, not just resting her foot there

[Isis]

Dance with Pooky

[Isis]

I'm not sure if TGP treating like, all of the game's content as though it came from a more serious and high information phase than it did is scummy or towny but I am pretty sure on alance it's scummy.

It's a lot easier to play low info stage as scum if you don't have to figure out what's fair to treat as serious cause you just treat everything serious.

[Isis]

I agree with a weak Hopkirk townread though

[Isis]

Not yet Pooky

[Isis]

You are not allowed to shoot anyone in {..Tayl0r Swift..}

Not wanting scum!Tayl0r to shoot herself must be wincon-transcending love.

S

H

I

P

[Isis]

I hope it never seems to be to my wincon to yeet Flea

in this game and future ones

[Isis]

Pookybear are you typing with your nose? :0

[Isis]

Can you teach Pandora to type with her nose that sounds even cuter

[Isis]

Hopkirk is not cute

[Isis]

How could you even say something like that

Ok the truth is that you're only cute when you're crying so I have to make you cry
Please understand.
I know this might result in us having an unhealthy dynamic but I like cute

[Isis]

Hopkirk is not cute

isis is conftown

I don't have Hectic and Flopz here for hydra based moral support so it doesn't take more than this to make me cry

So cute!
Rena wants to take it hommmmmmmmeeeeeee!!!!!!

[Isis]

I'm not sure if TGP treating like, all of the game's content as though it came from a more serious and high information phase than it did is scummy or towny but I am pretty sure on balance it's scummy.

Thoughts on hopkirk reading taylor's cuteness as scummy, or is that a different situation to you?

@isis

It's not scummy, hopkirk's tone is treating it as a low-information-stage read while TGP's tone is more like he's solving the game. Hopkirk is towny for taking the game from low info to high info the natural way it's supposed to go

[Isis]

i mean they're both solving the game

TGP's tone is like D6 eLo tone though

you get what I mean

[Isis]

Uh, I don't think that's distinct from "the thing you think is scummy isn't scummy because it's probably a Slayer's Gambit". I'm definitely not into that.

[Isis]

Like how can anyone engage with anything if you're willing to fall back on that
with no evidence that's actually going on

pedit: it's a vacuum should-apply-to-any-player-read I haven't played with TGP much, just two runs of a 4p.

It's not a heavy read but the case where it's town is "actually TGP was just kind of calibrated funny"; "everyone I don't want to scumread is slayer gambitting" is eyebrows
VOTE: Infinity 324
pedit: I kind of buy the selfmeta so VOTE: TGP

[Isis]

I mispronouned TGP and I apologize

[Isis]

the idea that I am capable of fooling Isis-town as scum is quite laughable.

You see, she can hear my soulsong and it is impossible to hide from her.

It's just 2/2 right?

I'm a little disappointed about not reading you better/faster in DeathCurse, I'm not sure whether I would have gotten there.

[Isis]

It might not even be 2. Marathons are a blur

[Isis]

Gloria you've been on your alt a month and I still don't really know your main, I'm pretty impressed

don't need to tell me just wanna say I'm impressed.

[Isis]

Do you have any wolfreads Gloria?
Even if they're not as strong as townreads they're good for the gamestate
and they're harder for scum than townreads so it helps me to nag you about having them

[Isis]

I don't think knowing that a Flavor alt was a Flavor alt would help me read Flavor more accurately and maybe would even bias me so I wouldn't really want to know if she was.

[Isis]

I don't want to scumread Jessie

[Isis]

Flea is they btw

I don't get why this is scummy for Gloria just seems like a lighthearted way to let Flea talk about the game

[Isis]

Pooky likes piano

[Isis]

Pooooooooky

[Isis]

I feel bad about abandoning Piano lessons because I wish I could play Piano for Infinity and Taylor's wedding

[Isis]

Hectic's new philosophy for solving me is that when I don't post pics of my cats in the game thread I probably have been posting them in the scum PT.

If this becomes enforced meta for me the end result is more people seeing how cute my cats are so it's prolly just all upside

[Isis]

I'm feeling so Xposed by Gloria Clear

l

y right now

Please don't make me feel like I didn't deserve that win sometimes it feels like my only good scumgame X_X

[Isis]

I'm feeling so Xposed by Gloria Clear

l

y right now

Please don't make me feel like I didn't deserve that win sometimes it feels like my only good scumgame X_X

Why does my sometimes having good gutreads mean your scum!win wasn’t deserved? Very few players can fake being natural. Sorry but your no Noraa, even if you don’t have chem class.

I meant "don't go even further and make me feel like my win wasn't deserved", mostly

[Isis]

I keep thinking Morning Tweet is the mod

[Isis]

Ydrasse is my new strongest TR but I'm gonna be intentionally mysterious about it.

[Isis]

my reason is definitely not Gloria's reason

[Isis]

I have a different paranoia where I remember how many times Hectic has joked to me about running all VT games lol

[Isis]

Sorry I don't have a read on Pooky yet.

As much as Pooky wants to paint me as an oracle, I nullread him for like 400 of his posts or something ridiculous in Matrix

[Isis]

"Like imo it's the opposite, if scum did pregame choices, it's more likely that jessie is scum"

What does this quote mean Gypyx?

If you get to recruit scumpartners pregame and you don't recruit Jesse you're throwing because she's excellent at scum!
I don't know how Gypyx knows this cause I've never seen them play but they must have played somewhere together, clearly.

[Isis]

memes are fun-indicative

[Isis]

@infinity

um in 302 you said Isis in 301 was openly scumclaiming?


now you are saying 301 is townie sounding?

Gypyx and Pooky are racing eachother for cognitive load reads lol

[Isis]

Maybe not?

I wish I could trust Pooky here.

You can trust me

I would never be bad in a game that Isis agrees to dance with me.

If Isis and Ydrasse say I can trust you I will. I don’t feel I can trust my read you after that game, sorry. :/

Wow with this level of humility I can rule out about 97.41% of MS.net users from my alt PoE

[Isis]

Spoiler:

[Isis]

Gloria if you are looking for an excellent townplayer to blindsheep 429 will be of use to you

[Isis]

Loki says you're all scum

[Isis]

ok when I said I had a mysterious townread on Ydrasse everyone was supposed to go "Isis you're so alluring and intriguing please shed enough mystique to show us" so that I get to talk about I wasn't supposed to get strangely townread with no curiousity what is this

[Isis]

ok when I said I had a mysterious townread on Ydrasse everyone was supposed to go "Isis you're so alluring and intriguing please shed enough mystique to show us" so that I get to talk about I wasn't supposed to get strangely townread with no curiousity what is this

Ydrasse is so pure and innocent that when you post a "mysterious townread" on her, everyone just looks and goes "huh yea I can see that's pretty much true"

Pooky I told Infinity what I needed and that's what he gave me but for you it seems like a struggle

[Isis]

also jessie's energy so far reminds me of menagerie + her attempts to communicate/get things done despite the animal noise thing we had to deal with, it's not the same given that wasn't setup spec but... the feeling around it is similar

p-edit: for a tiny tiny bit yes

Scum try to fabricate reads that make sense and have some logical basis to them. Failing that they occasionally give up and say they have gut reads. This post purports to be logical but retreats to gut. It mentions a feeling and tries to count out logic, but in the end the logic is flawed, but Ydrasse still hits send.
Posting with flawed logic is like the scariest thing ever as scum because the flaw might be some little scum claim thing.
Also generally scum like being right so the scum version of drafting this post would be something more like, "in spite of the post restriction I know this still applies".
Scum Ydrasse usually does the just say it's gut thing a lot but this isn't really a meta based read.
I also get what she's saying about Jessie for it to not seem like bantha pudu.

[Isis]

That was for infinity not for the bear I had to ask for something twice

[Isis]

You hurt my feelings

[Isis]

I think you mean you would never hurt my feelings intentionally

[Isis]

Loki laid down in a way where his mouse was underneath him

Spoiler:

[Isis]

Flea had a long post that didn't accomplish much, but then they told on themselves for not accomplishing much. I think they're good. The wallpost reads like they actually just read the thread and shared every thought they had and didn't hide any from us and then they got to the end and realized they hadn't said anything, but they felt sorry not sorry cause town can do no wrong, and stated such with the right tone. You can get a lot of really really scumreads and townreads off of correctly discerning people's attitudes towards their own content (that's what elitelling is and some people say it's the most unfairly powerful tell so)

The discussion around the infinity comment made me realize shading a townblock for size without picking anyone can like, benefit scum without putting oneself in harm's way and that make sense. I wonder if that's getting to become too much of the game at this point.

I think it was skitter asked: if you want to go purely on past games, I should be able to read Pooky (the reason Pooky is treating it as poignant is that it's been a read against town consensus in the past) (is that what poignant means it means kind of the same thing as salient right?)

Skitter and Gloria both don't like my Ydrasse analysis, but Gloria's reaction was "I don't really feel this but I don't have any reason to believe this was manufactured and anyway I think the slot it's about

is

town so I'm happy about it"; skitter's reaction was, she doesn't even think Ydrasses is scum, but she cares a lot whether my point was stupid anyway.
VOTE: skitter

I will dayvig Pooky the next time he says this game's plot is not about a wedding between me and Morning Tweet (who so far seems like a town bride but if it turns out she's scum there will still be a wedding it will just be even more forbidden)

This post is a weird mix of remembering things not necessarily in order and reading some pages out of order on accident so sorry if it's chronologically messy.

[Isis]

TGP's readslist makes no sense and what I remember of their posting doesn't make much sense, and on balance I lean towards it being a scummy thing I don't understand instead of a townie thing I don't understand. Apparently Dunnstral and skitter were my comrades in terms of voting their so when I don't have my fingers wrapped around it composition might be something to think about.
Jessie mostly hasn't towntold yet and has touched on a lot of topics where I'd expect her to have towntold. I think Infinity is the one with the sig where where posting long enough without towntelling is a scumtell. I'd sooner vote there than revote TGP at this point I think.
Dunnstral is mildly scummy but I've reached a point where I kind of treat him unfairly [well] in my games if he's not a 13/10 on lurking and scummy potshotting because he sometimes turns on midgame and has really good reads, and lots of times when you elim him for seeming scummy he's actually town, he just has that playstyle. I'm not gonna expect others to hold to that though.
Gypyx seems scummy for the way he was scrabbling with setup spec stuff it's a bit cognitive load scummy to count through the wifom of claiming hidden information so slowly. I don't have a lot from him yet though.

I'm starting to wonder if I approach games in a way that sets up perverse incentives on being active and sharing yourself oof.

Hopefully by the time phases reach their end point, at least, I don't

[Isis]

Jessie mostly hasn't towntold yet and has touched on a lot of topics where I'd expect her to have towntold.

curious where you think i should have towntold? i know you know i am aware of the things you've previously townread me for. was this a bait?:

Jessie, why did you claim VT right away?

I didn't see the "everyone's a VT" announcement.

was i meant to say something about you not reading the setup? am i meant to be sarcastic? was i meant to take the setup speculation to extremes?

106 would be a randomly selected post that might've contained townspew but doesn't, but I don't really mean anything super special, I just mean any of your posts engaging with the game. Sometimes someone posts a lot without me townreading any of it but I realize they've been on the defensive all game for justified reasons or isn't talking about things that are good for townspewing for other reasons so I give it a pass and I'm mostly just saying nothing about this game has warranted a pass.

It's definitely not tightly focused on your response about the VT claim. I didn't realize it was confirmed everyone is VT so I thought you had claimed VT in a scenario where Common Wisdom says it's suboptimal play, and I was curious about why town!Jessie does that if you're town. I didn't have very much confidence on being able to sort you off your reply. When it turned out everyone is VT it was much less intriguing and interesting

If you get to recruit scumpartners pregame and you don't recruit Jesse you're throwing because she's excellent at scum!

do you actually believe this?

No, this is hyperbole. I think you're great at scumplay but you in no way would be the only good choice in this playerlist

[Isis]

Isis looking at broad strokes instead of nitpicking and doing stream-of-consciousness are towntells for her from what I’ve seen

I don't know if this is true but I'm sad if it is. For whatever reason, one of my favorite things in mafia is when you find scum based on just 1 post. It's probably an underdog method compared to being holistic but it's just like super exciting to me

hm as scum maybe I disproportionately emulate my favorite parts of my towngame instead of all of my towngame

the way if I drew an owl I would draw the eyes to big

i'm having a mind esplode

[Isis]

I'm pretty sure Isis would be #1 choice to be recruited.

YOU ARE NOT THE PERSON WHO SHOULD GET TO SAY THIS

[Isis]

LIAR

[Isis]

Pooky blink a prime number of times if you are scum that recruited Ydrasse

[Isis]

trq getting a lil better btw

[Isis]

You would recruit Ydrasse
that is what you have shown me

[Isis]

I finished catching up and I agree with TGP's defense of Gypyx not making enough sense, in a scummy way. I like Jessie's version a lot better.

[Isis]

Hectic, does this post mean anything to you? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12109857
Because by the way it predates SS2 and it means nothing to PookyTheMagicalBear. The same way I mean nothing to PookyTheMagicalBear. Absolutely nothing.

Morning Tweet please come back to the thread I need to remember what matters.

[Isis]

I finished catching up and I agree with TGP's defense of Gypyx not making enough sense, in a scummy way. I like Jessie's version a lot better.

I felt like they really wanted me to believe gypyx was town, what do you think?

That's a weird way to frame it so it makes me unsure what you're asking, it seems to presume TGP is town

fwiw the posts read like scum defending town more than scum defending scum to me more than the other way

[Isis]

It’s pretty clearly written in a way that looks like it’s trying to convince me, which scum!TGP doesn’t have a ton of motivation to do on a townie. I don’t find that scum tend to fake “I’m trying to convince you that this townie is town”

I think I understand your point now. Like the use of again with a hyphen with it for creating the impression of thoroughness instead of transparently sharing all they have to share and letting the volume speak for its voluminousness.

I agree that's something that's scummy on balance but "lukewarm takes are usually scummy" is what's actually speaking to me.

[Isis]

I need to spend more time treasuring Flea and abusing Hopkirk

[Isis]

this plist is so fun after the first 2 lims can we bring the lims back to life please

[Isis]

I'm a freighter-full ironically hurt that you forgot but also a thimble-full unironically hurt that you forgot.

[Isis]

It’s pretty clearly written in a way that looks like it’s trying to convince me, which scum!TGP doesn’t have a ton of motivation to do on a townie. I don’t find that scum tend to fake “I’m trying to convince you that this townie is town”

I think I understand your point now. Like the use of again with a hyphen with it for creating the impression of thoroughness instead of transparently sharing all they have to share and letting the volume speak for its voluminousness.

I agree that's something that's scummy on balance but "lukewarm takes are usually scummy" is what's actually speaking to me.

I’m not sure you understand—I’m trying to argue that TGP is towny. Scum defending town tend to say “I have a townread on x person” and explain their logic sufficiently so that it looks like a real read. TGP is trying to go further than that. They really want people to believe gypyx is town, which is town-indicative or possibly scumbuddy indicative. I agree that it’s less of a “here are my thoughts” type post but I actually think that’s towny here for that reason.

I'm not sure I understand/agree, I think in the earlier phase of the game townies don't really go the extra mile on towncasing because they can just do it later. Lengthy towncases can lamist better than short towncases though, so scum would have incentive to do that in any phase of the game. I have a fun wallpost towncase I made as scum I share sometimes but I feel too lazy to go grab it but just imagine it.

[Isis]

I'm a freighter-full ironically hurt that you forgot but also a thimble-full unironically hurt that you forgot.

What can I do to make up for this pain? Your thimble is like a mountain to me.

Convince gungho to add Bride Isis to next year's annual wedding versions of characters event

[Isis]

otoh I think you want me to understand why you believe TGP is town but I don't get a vibe of "I want Isis to believe TGP is town"

[Isis]

How'd you know it was a June event I didn't mention that

[Isis]

I will slay so many dragons

[Isis]

I like Dunn's explanation for voting TGP. I think maybe he was repeating himself? so I maybe feel bad for not hearing it before. VOTE: TGP
This is E1.

Tweet, Pooky and I don't necessarily solve eachother. I don't think I've ever rolled scum against him and he's pretty slow to townread me when we're T-T and he's stated between games he thinks I would just hoodwink him if I ever rolled scum. That's probably just humility but there's not really any affirmative reason to think he knows how to read me.

I don't want to respond to Jessie's last post because I think we might be talking past eachother and I want to start fresh with her.
I don't want to get stuck in ruts this game.

Skitter's "case" makes me disappointed that's a vanity wagon I'm moving off of, ontop of Infinity's point tons of the reads I presented were from Hopkirk specifically asking me about people, which tends to mean it's people I didn't comment on in the first place specifically because my thoughts were weak and in both directions. It's such a lazy copypasta tell and all the times I've seen it used effectively it's been possible to point at a read that ought to be firm in that phase of game.

Actually VOTE: skitter, I have five days to be vain.
I don't think pressure is going to make or break how TGP gets sorted anyway, the way they play mafia.

[Isis]

I don't want to respond to Jessie's last post because I think we might be talking past eachother and I want to start fresh with her.

it's like, hm, okay,

so you say that you think that i am good as mafia:

she's excellent at scum

I think you're great at scumplay

and also that i haven't towntold:

Jessie mostly hasn't towntold yet and has touched on a lot of topics where I'd expect her to have towntold.

but i know that you know that i know what the version of 106 or whatever post that gets me townread looks like

so it feels like that way of trying to read me should be logically inconsistent from your pov? but idk if that's alignment indicative

like had i taken the setup speculation to extremes would you have thought, ah yes she is town?

Hm. I might be projecting Jessie. I also think I'm good at scum, but as I've told Hectic before, I usually don't know what to post that will get me townread when I play scum. I only know what to post that won't get me scumread.

I don't have a thorough understanding of why you're good at scum or how your strengths work, I just know I saw you win a hard lobby, and it wasn't one of those cases were several townies acted it in a wonky manner that made it super clear why they became miseliminations. The other thing is having an emotional relationship with mafia that works in your favor, probably as both alignments (I think you get emotional about games, but you don't get emotional about some aspects of it that others do, and those are the things where it's a detriment)

[Isis]

If Flea is a diva can we book them to perform at the wedding? I'm ok with them having multiple roles.

[Isis]

I feel like if I had to explain why I townread Flea I would be profoundly embarrassed yet feel I had not right to be embarrassed, like a parent who is asked about their favorite piece of art in all the world, and has to pull a sheet of paper covered in glitter, stickers, and fingerpaint off the front of the fridge because anything else would be dishonest

[Isis]

that's a good ninjapost too

[Isis]

Pooky you have told me you would go skydiving with me without a parachute; that doesn't actually make me want to go skydiving with you

[Isis]

Jessie is your overall position on skitter null atm?

[Isis]

I looked through matrix decipher to try to find a counterexample of me saying a nice thing about Pooky but I didn't find anything

[Isis]

Pooky I wanted to slay any such dragons as were menacing or kidnapping Morning Tweet not kill extra dragons for sport!

[Isis]

Pooky I wanted to slay any such dragons as were menacing or kidnapping Morning Tweet not kill extra dragons for sport!

There are literally no dragons in this Castle so I ordered some in bulk after you said you wanted to kill them to prove your love for Tweetie.

what about demons

[Isis]

more than that she just wants to say things and then not engage with me on it

skitter where have I done this
you're not characterizing me accurately and it seems discredity and you're at best playing town more survivalistically than you should be playing the alignment because you're being really dismissive

[Isis]

b) i believe if she scumread me she'd be trying to interact with me and/or sort me, which isn't happening

I don't always play patty cake with people I scumread, but "A readslist with more than X nullreads is always scum setting up audibles and never a townie who doesn't have people's alignments in her role PM" is such a dumb thing like no I don't exactly want to use it as a jumping off point.

If you want to talk about something you can talk about why you think voting two different people in one post is scummy. That's like, decent. What makes you read that as feigned indecision versus indecision, is there some marker to it making you sure you're not confbiasing?

[Isis]

I see, but have you seen scum towncase a buddy as their main contribution to the thread by far?

Ame in Dannflor's Purgatory and it was beautiful I miss him so much

[Isis]

I’d be impressed by gloria’s “I’m so obvtown” act is she’s scum since she’s...not obvtown.

I hate when people call themselves obvtown. If you have done something that is town indicative and know you have, then you therefore are aware enough of those things you could have done them as scum, so it's always a flawed claim.

That said Gloria has been really townie this game, to the point I spend a lot more time curious about her main instead of her alignment.

[Isis]

Pooky I don't have you solved yet which makes the game all the more fun. You have a townish post or two I noted but didn't comment on.

Do you have me solved yet? You said you had, then asked me if I was bad later, and I'm "special" in every reads list. It's confusing. Why isn't Ydrasse the one in the "special" readslist, since you remember marathon games you play with her and recruit her onto your scumteams?

I can't remember anything Ydrasse has posted in a bit.

[Isis]

I scumread TGP's lay-down-and-die act because it seemed so premature. I don't scumread making a show of the last will-and-testament process per se, that can be theatrics or just townies actually do that as they go out, but assessing the point of no return has passed way sooner than it actually has can be a kind of Freudian confession they deserve to get limmed. Hectic was like super sure he'd get D1 paralyzed in Nightmare when I knew he'd get out of it. There's great examples that don't involve Hectic but it's extra fun to use examples that directly involve Hectic cause he can't comment on him. Don't we have a great mod?

Infinity, Tweetie fretfluttering in circles about it was about what I would expert her to do and I didn't really understand you giving her grief about it. Does scum!Tweet need to do gymnastics to be in a position where she can vote town!TGP when TGP is laying down and not fighting it? I agree with Gloria that it looked towny. Considering it will probably go through with or without her, wanting to sort them seems like a town sense of inherent responsibility to assent or dissent about each choice we make.

[Isis]

Wait a second are you saying you don't want to solve me because it's more fun to not solve me?

it's exactly the opposite, I'm still solving you, once I've finished solving you I won't be able to keep doing it. :3

When I get sure enough about a read I choose to stop considering them for the rest of the game. Some people don't really have a threshhold for that but I definitely do.

I am actually maybe sads that Flea is kind of getting to that point where I don't get to keep solving them, they might already be past it. (I want a super fancy emoji sad face to go here but I can't do fancy drawring like Flea)

[Isis]

I would possibly interpret it differently if it was not my betrothed herself, and I don't think I've seen you play much with her before

[Isis]

I really doubt there's a jester based on familiarity with Hectic.

Jessie's fear of jesters did make me go "wow this looks genuine" but after a beat I remembered that mafia can lose to third parties too.. which is why they are bad setup design. I don't know for sure that Hectic hates them to quite the same extent I do, but I am confident that if he put jesters in the setup it won't be particularly brutal and punishing to eliminate them.

I don't think defending someone who is at E2 is scummy, as I mentioned earlier with the example I used, overestimating an elim is mainly something that's a bad sign coming from the victim of the wagon

Pedit: I see some of the arguments that there could be jesters, and they're not terrible, but more important than whether it can be ruled out completely, I don't think Hectic would do a design where town figured out slots aren't town and then they got punished for eliminating those slots. I complained to him about conditionally elimination proof mafia roles before the game.

[Isis]

Flea I'd prefer if you didn't refer to "lynches". It's tolerated for players but not allowed at all for mods so it's awkward when posing questions to the mod. (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85012)

[Isis]

Everyone has a phase in their mafia career where their favourite role is jester.

[Isis]

Ydrasse why have you been quieter up until this and what are you wearing to the wedding

[Isis]

Dismissive is inherently survivalistic, it's a really safe way to interact.
If you roll scum, you want to reduce your "surface area" as much as possible.
That's how I think about stuffs

[Isis]

menalque's favorite places was pretty massive clash which makes statements like that a bit (?)
it was a long time ago but I'm pretty sure I remember it being frictitious

[Isis]

Flea had a long post that didn't accomplish much, but then they told on themselves for not accomplishing much. I think they're good. The wallpost reads like they actually just read the thread and shared every thought they had and didn't hide any from us and then they got to the end and realized they hadn't said anything, but they felt sorry not sorry cause town can do no wrong, and stated such with the right tone. You can get a lot of really really scumreads and townreads off of correctly discerning people's attitudes towards their own content (that's what elitelling is and some people say it's the most unfairly powerful tell so)

The discussion around the infinity comment made me realize shading a townblock for size without picking anyone can like, benefit scum without putting oneself in harm's way and that make sense. I wonder if that's getting to become too much of the game at this point.

I think it was skitter asked: if you want to go purely on past games, I should be able to read Pooky (the reason Pooky is treating it as poignant is that it's been a read against town consensus in the past) (is that what poignant means it means kind of the same thing as salient right?)

Skitter and Gloria both don't like my Ydrasse analysis, but Gloria's reaction was "I don't really feel this but I don't have any reason to believe this was manufactured and anyway I think the slot it's about

is

town so I'm happy about it"; skitter's reaction was, she doesn't even think Ydrasses is scum, but she cares a lot whether my point was stupid anyway.
VOTE: skitter

I will dayvig Pooky the next time he says this game's plot is not about a wedding between me and Morning Tweet (who so far seems like a town bride but if it turns out she's scum there will still be a wedding it will just be even more forbidden)

This post is a weird mix of remembering things not necessarily in order and reading some pages out of order on accident so sorry if it's chronologically messy.

If it's this post, I discuss roughly four players, and I waffle on one of them (infinity, being noncommital about how much the townblock thing should matter)

If you're referring to the post where Hopkirk specifically asked me about players I hadn't commented on specifically because they're the ones I'm not sure about then "randomly out of nowhere" is beyond bogus for describing why they weren't certain reads.

[Isis]

The pagetop of the last page was pretty townie

[Isis]

TGP's chopping block behaviour has been pretty poor. I increasingly think they just flip scum.

It's scummy to have jerky read progressions and it stays scummy even if you fill in the holes later. Pooky why do you want to wait for TGP to give delayed reasons for why they're voting skitter? Like I'm sure they can think of something now, either way. I've played with TGP before and I think they're good at scum ^^ so I think they could manage that pretty well.

I mean I kind of know the point but I'm trying to think of a response I'd be happy with and I can't really think of one.

[Isis]

I often get suspicious when players throw other players lifesaver rings in mafia game but thinking about it I don't know whether that's something scum would do more often than town or why I get suspicious about it.

[Isis]

i have been absorbed with marathons a ton today and I'm exhausted X_X Playing with Morning Tweet boosted my confidence with for being able to read her, but broke my fragile heart.

In a way I think of you as a strong player who could be infiltrator of the townbloc Infinity >_< . I keep feeling like I'm arguing with a chalkboard with the way you're reading TGP, which makes it seem like a TMI townread. But at the same time a lot of your posts have a townie construction to them. In the end I generally prefer the independent read to the associative read.. I tried something different in a marathon game today and it really backfired.. sorry Pooky So I'm probably going to sort you town for now.

I think if TGP flips town today two of the people I feel I have to look at the most are ones that are good at town, between skitter and Dunnstral. But the other one survives, at least.

[Isis]

I didn't really think Tayl0r was playing offmeta in that regard, it's Dunn's play that's pinged me a bit.

[Isis]

gloria i am drunk hru

[Isis]

idk a lot about tgp but they seem like someone who might alter their AtE state a lot??

[Isis]

like tgps name is itself a thingy so they seem like a distant type of player

but somtimes in the 4ps i played with them i see'd peeks of their soul
but sometimes i did not
even when i was scum with them!

[Isis]

i m like spending lots of time at the guilts wondering if tgp is scummier or lessss scummy than skitts
when i know that skitts is up for paragon nom and thuslslyslys prolly good at solving

but also i would have to yell at ppl just to swing this to skits

and i think the only person telling me "you're not crazy when you worry about skitz"

is infinity who thinks tgp is no scum at all and think skits is <dereferenced variable> not sure shes scummy?

[Isis]

i played one newbie with skitter
and like
she tricke me
but she tricked me in a way
where she showed me her soul for after
it was like i knew
that if she wasn't banding with me
to smite the scum
in solidarity
it was cuz
she was UNA DEBILA
she was bad and i kilt her
it wasnt my fault tho
the other townie deadsheeped:(
buT!?
in this game
i am mad at her
butt i was mad in the last normal i played with her
and i think its we butt heads

[Isis]

VOTE: dunstal

[Isis]

infintiy are you scum

[Isis]

infinity the word infiniy is like all the positive intergers ardded together
but 324 is 2^2*3^3
which is diferent from rah rah rah multiply alll the naturals ever and make infinity
it makes me sus youuuuu

[Isis]

i am drunk but 1406 makes me think infinity is townier than pooky???21

[Isis]

i am OK!
SHAKE SHAKE!
SHAKE SHAKE!

[Isis]

where is ydrasse luxy?!!

[Isis]

finnnnnnnne
i will get water cupp

[Isis]

I SMELL LIKE ROSES

[Isis]

i wish i was tr tgp cause i like them

[Isis]

[Isis]

caught for the wrong reasons scum

When you use this argument, you invalidate your previous one

This townpings me. Dunnstral kind of posts arrogant crap people will scumread as both alignments but he turns down the volume as scum.

what is this reaction ??
while TERRIBLE, this actually feels like a reaction slightly more likely to come from town than scum because scum wouldn't risk that kind of reaction, although in dunn's case from what i've seen of them they don't really care about that so it's fairly NAI

Yeah exactly, he doesn't seem to care about that if you read his towngames :X
He is more cantankerous than the average player on both sides, but I've noticed a delta.
(I've peeked ahead and know I am talking to someone who is dead)

Pookybear is magical, that's why <3

I need rdunk Isis in my life. For cuddles and cats. Like if Isis is scum amma be heartbroken here and trust nobody else ever again.

I have two precious cats that I love to cuddle (✿◠‿◠)
When I roll scum I get coaching from Pandora and when I roll town I get coaching from Loki. That's how you tell. Loki has a lot more need for practice discerning hidden intentions because Pandora lays on chairs pretending to be disinterested then snipes his tail when he passes by, if he doesn't read her face.
I don't think you have hidden intentions because you've been making lots of readable faces all game. Metaphorically.

In case anyones curious

{]( ¬_ ¬)[} -- my fave emoji... me with RBF

What's RBF?

dunn deserves to die for calling isis sweaty, she smells like roses.

the fact that he is very likely also a red pm is just an extra bonus on top .

i can make a more detailed case but i havent gotten out of bed yet and im super hungry.

I like yelling that I smell like roses because it's funny, but I actually prefer scents like lilac or lavender
Anyway, Dunn only bullies his friends. We've probably played 10 games together by now.
Also, like Flea, I am actually very frequently sweaty, unfortunately （ ；´Д｀）

Tinfoil: pooky is scum with TGP and wanted to tie TGP to a townie but now realizes they can elim dunn first instead. Hmm.

UNVOTE:

PEdit: I mean yeah, but dunn said he was gonna do some more solving in the second half.

@Flea TMI= too much information, when you say something you could only know if you are scum.

I am trying to get this jargon renamed "answer key" but I can't get it to catch on.

VOTE: tgp ok

Why did you vote a slot you hard, hard townread? I'll try to remember to delete this if it gets answered later in my catchup.
No, it's pretty mysterious. Why? Do you have skitter as locktown? It's still hard to follow with how strong you represented the TGP townread.
This bugs me no matter what TGP flips here

[Isis]

I don't think I'm inclined to associate you with that middle word, Flea
｡゜(｀Д´)゜｡

＼(^-^)／

[Isis]

In sober-form I don't see myself voting out Dunnstral with skitter alive, especially with skitter backing off of me once she can tell I am pop-ular, and Dunnstral being pretty brazen.

Pooky did you push Dunnstral because he's the scummiest person in the game, or because you thought I'd like it?

[Isis]

I'm not townreading either of you but I would feel pretty dumb flipping the one who was much less slimy in response to getting pushed.

[Isis]

I kinda get a bit bored when i've got a solid townblock and have been pretty busy this weekend. My reads haven't really changed tbh, but not having read the thread is probably a decent part of that.
I'll catch up tomorrow. If I don't then I deserve however mean Isis is afterwards

thumbtacks in the back pocket of your pants for one week

[Isis]

It’s more that scum would almost never vote dunn in that situation, and statistically there’s very likely at least one scum on that wagon (of 5 at its height, I believe)

ahhhhhh

wagonomics is a last resort for me.

My impulse tends to be that wagonomics matters a lot when it's, "wow what were we thinking, that miselim was really bad" and is a good bit weaker when it's "Yeah if I see this in my next three games I'll probably mess up three more times." I feel more like the latter than the former for TGP's wagon

[Isis]

I think we’re talking past each other so let’s work through this.

We have 4 possibilities:
There was at least 1 scum on dunn and dunn is scum: we both agree this is unlikely
There was at least 1 scum on dunn and dunn is town: I think this is the most likely scenario
There was no scum on dunn and dunn is scum: you think this is the most likely scenario, but I’m not convinced; it requires 4 players other than me to all be town, which is unlikely just by probability
There was no scum on dunn and dunn is town: also a possibility but unlikely by probability

ahhhh wagonomics

[Isis]

VOTE: Hectic

[Isis]

im going to bed. u go to bed too then wake up and read what u r sayinf to me

this is cute

[Isis]

OK meds taken, brain still foggy, body still achey, and for some reason my internal monologue went brain still FWWWWOOOOGGGGYYY! and now all I can picture the Big the Cat, or Gatto El Grande as he's also known lol

nuuuu
On brainfoggy day I do not see how Big the Cat is the feline that is helpful

Spoiler:

I recommend Gato

Spoiler:

Gato will make you a lullaby!

Spoiler:

I'm ngl, i kinda expected a meatier case on pooks from Infnity? Like I get the vibe and gut feeling and the aggression thing... and pooky isn't being as chill and fun as they were in DC - that said I'm not playing the same either so I can't really call it AI...

Pooky is more aggressive as scum imo but has aggressive moments with both alignments. But unless you analyze why he's being aggressive it's just a 51%/49% type of thing that isn't fadeworthy on its own.

[Isis]

Can you stop talking about anything other than you in this game or who’s pushing you etc. and actually talk about some other players and actually make reads?

MOOD

[Isis]

I didn't see that bit you quoted, so then I would assume that vanilla in terms of power means there's no outward abilities, such as cops or docs but potentially linked abilities or something that trades something for something else. for example the bodyguard role which dies when the target is killed.

I don't feel there's any way for a mechanical guilty to happen at all having seen that.

i think it means that there is no player given the role 'cop' but there is still plenty of ways for there to be a mechanical guilty. there were mechanical innocents in that game i really don't see how you are ruling out the possibility of mechanical guilties here.

You're right that nothing keeps a game with surprise midgame events from having mechanical guilties.
It probably doesn't have mechanical guilties though, because this was posted not too long before or after this game was designed

100% agree. I also dislike the use of regular cops, I don't think it's particularly rewarding when scum is caught with an inescapable guilty.

I think mechanical innocents are likely to make a comeback though.

[Isis]

maybe it’s just because my thought process is the last game went wild and this one most likely will too and like, in the absence of knowing how it makes more sense just to scumhunt??

You're not wrong
Jessie loves mech and it brings her happy though

[Isis]

1752 is a townpost. ISO'd ydrasse and she's still town.

I have a different paranoia where I remember how many times Hectic has joked to me about running all VT games lol

Is it too early to start seriously worrying about this?

lol
Hectic would never
or at bare minimum he wouldn't invite me

[Isis]

How did nobody call out the townslip equity in that infinity post?????

[Isis]

i mean I think I've made fun of the zwets all VT game to him before and I think there was enough shared understanding it was gross that he wouldn't do that.

Neither previous SS has been bastard on that level

[Isis]

Hopkirk, is Hectic not yet on the "traitors are awful" train, cause I am willing to be the conductor.

I saw Hectic role traitor in a pretty sketchy setup so maybe that cured him, don't know if that particular setup was run before or after

[Isis]

Can this be a Donnie Brasco game? or does that require nonVTs

[Isis]

For my part, the same post that included a Hectic vote would have included an unvote otherwise (if I was voting anywhere, I don't remember).

I'm having trouble deciding what to do with the game, voting anything that's bothered me besides skitter has felt wrong by comparison, but pushing skitter herself when my reaction to all her posting is increasingly unrefined rage feels really bad since that's how I felt in the Menalque normal, and how I felt in the marathon she referenced. It's probably better to eliminate one of the players that hasn't cleared themselves by now, but none of them seem actively scummy to me the way TGP falsely did so I don't want to be in charge of which.

pedit: Pooky's engagement in this anti-town meme is mildly scummy for him but it's definitely not disjoint from his townrange, he did a pretty similar stunt in Chara's Folly.

[Isis]

to clarify, it's slightly scummy for basically anyone participating, Pooky's meta dampens the extent to which it is scummy compared to the average player

[Isis]

Putting spoiler tags around colored fonts can force a proper background color, although it fails on mobile (but this issue gets resolved once the forum upgrades to 3.3)

[Isis]

Spoiler:

[Isis]

I can join in on VOTE: Hopkirk

Pooky's reaction to the sluggish gamestate feels a bit more natural than Hop's.

[Isis]

He was a lot less towny when I voted him, lol

I thought his response to pooky’s pressure yesterday and your pressure today was towny, plus the thing with the wagons that makes sense in my head.

I obviously meant Hopkirk.

It wasn't obvious actually, but you've clarified now.

Pretty strong proof we should have eliminated players until Hopkirk had unilateral control of the "he" pronoun though

[Isis]

isis pls tell ydra im a goodie goodie who can do not harm except when I do stupid stuff like vote for good guys because i'm mostly clueless.

Ydrasse!
When you vote Pooky he starts AtEing and self metaing and becomes unreadable!
Please wait until I figure out he's scum and then if that happens you can have hammah

[Isis]

It's what I heard!

[Isis]

-_-;;;

Look at this cute face

[Isis]

I’ll be nomming you post-game. You think Pooky/Dunn could possibly be scum distancing?

Please no eating me D:

That's not what she meant XD. She meant nominate you for an award.

if I was red she would've already sent me packing

she's very good at yeeting me when I am red.

Why don't you say that about Jessie? The sample size is not much better.

[Isis]

I share an emotional impulse to hop off Hopkirk but I don't think appeal to fear is a great reason on its own to falter on something.

[Isis]

I’ll be nomming you post-game. You think Pooky/Dunn could possibly be scum distancing?

Please no eating me D:

That's not what she meant XD. She meant nominate you for an award.

Huh?

Gloria was saying that if you're scum this game but have impersonated town so well, she wants to nominate you for a good scumplay award after the game is concluded. Nom is an abbreviation of nominate.

[Isis]

I'm here to catch up!

[Isis]

I share an emotional impulse to hop off Hopkirk but I don't think appeal to fear is a great reason on its own to falter on something.

Why did you hop on in the first place? Looking through your trajectory your post-flip behavior feels at odds with your reads beforehand. Especially the lack of follow up on the things you said you would want to follow up on - like Infinity's read on TGP that you said you absolutely wanted to look at post flip, but i don't think you've mentioned infinity. Then your view on the game in terms of reads has flipped at some point without a clear explination. What's your view of the gamestate right now?

I've been reading Infinity's posts with a critical eye and when he interacts with anyone who's not TGP everything he says makes sense to me.
More importantly, when I see a player townslip, and no one wants to talk about it or talk about why no one wants to talk about it, I.. do not want to eliminate that player. I didn't beat that drum harder and force people to engage with it because I thought I'd get more out of it not doing so. For example, this post you are currently making saying you "don't think I've mentioned Infinity" is scum indicative because that means it wasn't memorable for you because you didn't get it/already knew he was town, etc.

I hopped on in the first place because your snark about the town' productivity and activity pattern is really pinging me indignant scum, and when the wagon falls apart based only on that attitude, it only feels like playing into your hand.

I'll give more view of the gamestate when I'm done catching up, in case it changes, but as of this post I feel like we should be eliminating in the "doesn't really feel like they're here and is kind of scummy when they are here" group, which is you and Ydrasse.

[Isis]

I share an emotional impulse to hop off Hopkirk but I don't think appeal to fear is a great reason on its own to falter on something.

Why did you hop on in the first place? Looking through your trajectory your post-flip behavior feels at odds with your reads beforehand. Especially the lack of follow up on the things you said you would want to follow up on - like Infinity's read on TGP that you said you absolutely wanted to look at post flip, but i don't think you've mentioned infinity. Then your view on the game in terms of reads has flipped at some point without a clear explination. What's your view of the gamestate right now?

I like this post itself a lot better than most of your posts in general though btwftr

[Isis]

Ok, I'm caught up.

->it's not my birthday for another 3 hours
->Flea townspewed like 9 more times and it's an aggravating aggregation of gravy at this point
->I don't wanna do Gypyx. Gypyx rolled scum in what I think is his first scumgame in mystyry box of silver: special isis idition, and in that game he was very lurky noncommital early on. Then it started to be a bad thing. Then he started playing more proactive and pushed someone after getting coached and everyone started townreading him and he won.
Being lurky and noncommital as scum matches as a personality/predisposition thing, but failing to do that-thing-that-worked-out-last-time here is pretty weird here. It could be a case of, in the words of the beloved Blake Belladonna, "Bitmap is scum this game. He is identifying the things he needs to do. Then he is not doing them." But the fact that that quote so dear to my heart is actually a case of town scumcasing town is the reason it's more of a second likeliest explanation.

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk. The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him, identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

[Isis]

i didn't spectate past my rep-out in Death Curse. So to some extent I couldn't tell you. I was in the dead PT for the memes.

Comparing a midgame to an early game would be flawed.

[Isis]

infinity/isis played that game too actually they should know the answer to this.

Hopkirk feels pretty different from Matrix Decipher to me. In Matrix Decipher it felt like Hopkirk was operating with the same barometer for how the game was going as I was and in this game there seems like there's mismatched assessment of how dire things are. Even if we miselim today and even if ontop of that everyone's reads are bad and are stuck in bad ruts, the game is likely to have some kind of twist something like Menagerie did that will kick lots of life and reassess into it. Other slots have a vibe that feels similar to mine of like "lol we have no reads I should probably be ashamed but I'm voting the mod tbh" whereas Hopkirk has this tone of "we haven't solved the game already we are already doomed unless we swiftly foil the gunpowder treason of 1605" that's foreign to the game but fits particularly well with the 11v2 idea Infinity mentioned.

[Isis]

Some of the solvy thoughts on the past couple of pages have been pretty town.

What was that phrase you used to describe how I was almost townlock in Matrix Decipher?

[Isis]

The "we haven't solved it" part isn't the way the AtE was presented, it was the part where he backloaded all his interest in solving for after everyone settled on a consensus he wasn't happy with.

It feels off.

I might not be able to fully communicate this read due to it having gutparts to it I guess and that's ok I guess. I really feels like the least wrong lim to me though

[Isis]

Tweet whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy??????
Hectic is such a bastard.
The flip that surprises me the most is Dunnstral, but I should probably feel bad about being surprised about it.

Isis are you excited? It’s wagonomics time for real now.

Why me for this? I think we talked this game on single posts being my favorite thing, wagonomics isn't my favorite thing.

If I ever made wagonomics seem like my favorite thing I was probably scum.

I've been townreading Flea all game and capricious behavior seems to fit faer personality, but it'd probably be irresponsible not to elim faer. I have this feeling like fae will flip town and I'll be bummed about it though.

Ydrasse asking to be read shallowly on wagonomics and nothing else is not good vibes.

I'd like to dance with Gloria, I think she should definitely be one of the dancers and I think I'm probably top 4.

Pooky, you're not in the top 4, and you know it. The flip on Hopkirk was weird. And since you usually care about my play but didn't join me initially, that just makes it seem weirder to me, for town!you I think "Isis wholeheartedly believes this thing" would matter more than "this person voted me".

[Isis]

I was pretty burnt out, but I feel more excited today.

Your Ydrasse read speaks to me, maybe you're town.

2721 is a pretty good idea

pedit: is it bad I don't remember Pooky pushing Dunn. I've been too out of it this game maybe :s

[Isis]

Oh tweet happy birthday!

[Isis]

i kinda think ydrasse is right and the dance pairs should probably be me-gloria ydrasse-infinity

and i am worried that isis might accept pooky's dance thing if we move towards that

Did you spectate Epilogue?

[Isis]

I agree that was a town-indicative jump trq. I want to just townread infinity in general for more natural reasons for the most part though. Probably my second strongest townread now that, what was Ydrasse's word, the asterisk. The asterisk is here.

[Isis]

Sorry, I'm supposed to call you Jessie

[Isis]

Pooky, why rescind the proposal? As I understand it you'd still prefer to dance, still think I'm town.
I agree with Ydrasse that it takes reads and not AtE to townread you.

Intentionally eliminating town seems like a pretty double-or-nothing risky thing, it backfires if scum are dancing. The safer play seems like to be to get the towniest people dancing, eliminate the scummiest person, then scum are forced to eliminate a townie that probably would have been one of our miselims. Killing a future miselims and killing scum are identical, it's a theory point I learned last year.

[Isis]

I scumread Gypyx's post. The scum treestumps are really helping me out with the problem of townreading too many people.

It might be a weird dynamic from having tons of scum, it might get better now

[Isis]

Were you scum flexing on us and laughing about positing there was only 2 scum?

[Isis]

Aaaaaa Ydrasse save me

[Isis]

Lol

[Isis]

Asking flipped scum for reads is a humdinger. After playing AvP I wouldn't try it, none of my hunches based on the scum stump ever had any value

[Isis]

Pooky why am I not even your third highest townread if you wanted to dance with me?

[Isis]

dance with pooky

[Isis]

rescind dance with pooky

[Isis]

Pooky rescinded his offer, so it doesn't trigger a dance.

I'm confused by his insisting he would always want to dance with me, yet rescinding his offer.

I'm puzzling over him, I've seen him play similar to this as both town and scum by now.

[Isis]

Kanna explicitly said rescinds are valid

[Isis]

I would like a neighborhood with Pooky if I could be convinced he deserves to be dancing to begin with. Pairs get neighborhoods right?

I like the way he is sorting Ydrasse

[Isis]

My mindset right now is that we are gonna elim Flea and fae is gonna flip town because it is somehow one of those games.
But then a scummy person will get shot because of the dancers
And it will be a 3v2 but not a hard one

Pedit: some of his thoughts resonate, it doesn't feel like he is picking a conclusion and working backwards, just that generic 2010 the townies are the ones scumhunting stuff I guess.

[Isis]

I'm confused by his insisting he would always want to dance with me, yet rescinding his offer.

you said no so that part of me had to die

Last time I refused to townread you, on some scale, you insisted I must be scum and selfvoted either metaphorically or literally and told everyone to get me next. It was a marathon but still. What's different here?

[Isis]

You know town!me is going to use the mechanics optimally (scum!me would copy that too). Why are you acting so surprised about the dance decline? And also did the town consensus against it surprise you?

None of your play makes sense.. for either alignment to some extent.

[Isis]

Ydra feels like she hasn't tried very much, her excitement for day start feels kind of faked? so do her semi-townslippy posts. I could be wrong about this.

This resonated a lot with me, but maybe I'm projecting my own analysis into it.

Since scum just lost most of their members and has a couple players left who need to get townread, trying to start strong in this phase fits the wincon a special way. Acting excited about dance phase without actually lolproposing or matching Ydrasse's style in certain ways is what made me agree with the guttake that it might be faked.

[Isis]

MT please dance with me! Bats are amazingingly sweet and cute and I would be honoured!

It would be hard to vote Flea even if Hectic confirmed faer scum to me

[Isis]

dance with pooky

why did you do this?

do you know how long I stared at this? Seconds that felt like an eternity.

you're killing me.

Why did you stare at it if you discarded the lolfun part and only want to use dances optimally now?

Flea keeps feeling town, and it doesn’t help that isis’s “I think flea is town but it’d be irresponsible not to elim faer” is pretty scummy.

Why is it scummy? I'm agreeing with you that fae feels town. The only way I'm possibly disagreeing with you is about the propriety of leaving a gameflipping hammer unpunished, which is kind of an unexpected disagreement when you say you like wagonomics more than I do. I'm not even sure I disagree with you on that. Do you think you could get into an f3 and vote outside of Flea just because fae "feels" town?

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I feel like Pooky's read progression on me doesn't make sense, but Infinity's does, even though it seems Infinity is landing somewhere less correct.

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Jessie do you have a scum^ scumV town^ townV conclusion about Flea and Pooky both selfdestructing or is it a think out loud before you reach a conclusion kind of thing?

It's such a common part of Pooky's scumrange (and townrange in fairness) that I don't want to read much into it for him, but for Flea the wifom of lolhammering -> picking to be one of the people to play the game -> selfdestructing seems to have some salience

[Isis]

Flea keeps feeling town, and it doesn’t help that isis’s “I think flea is town but it’d be irresponsible not to elim faer” is pretty scummy.

Why is it scummy? I'm agreeing with you that fae feels town. The only way I'm possibly disagreeing with you is about the propriety of leaving a gameflipping hammer unpunished, which is kind of an unexpected disagreement when you say you like wagonomics more than I do. I'm not even sure I disagree with you on that. Do you think you could get into an f3 and vote outside of Flea just because fae "feels" town?

Can you explain this further because I don’t understand and don’t want to misinterpret you?

When I play town I kind of do a mixture of 80% believing in myself and 20% accepting stuff that mathematically should work even though it doesn't speak to my soul. The 20% is composed of lots of things like deadsheeping people with a good read rate even though I don't like the read, voting softgulities, and voting out people that seem townie but have cast votes in scum favor.

I jump over to the 20% a lot more when I lose faith in myself, and the misreads presented by the five flips would be one of those times.

Maybe I should deadsheep Hopkirk though, that was in the list of things.

Maybe that makes you understand better where my mind's been.

Maybe Flea can be truly town locked, it's not impossible. I once town locked someone who faked an innocent on scum, from seeing enough of their soul.

I expected everyone to want to eliminate Flea like Pooky does and intending not to object because I don't feel confident enough to veto a VCA elim right now. If both my townreads don't want to do that, it's a pretty different story.