Mini Normal 2179 | ENDGAME

[Titus]

VOTE: Battle Mage

Hey!

[Titus]

VOTE: Ranny

[Titus]

So maybe as town Titus likes to reaction vote?

I like us out of RVS asap.

I also didn't like Rannygazoo's vote for weak as fuck reasons, so I voted him and shut up.

[Titus]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

[Titus]

Let’s generate some noise from which we will derive associations or motives
VOTE: Non Imh

He says this, yet his vote does nothing to further creating associations or motives by not joining any other wagon.

[Titus]

@Titus: sounds like you have really high standards for RVS

[Titus]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

[Titus]

That feels like a lot of words to say that my observation was correct but that you assign my rationale no weight. If that's the case though, why are you voting Ranny?

[Titus]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

Sick of being night killed on day one but ok with making yourself a target?

I mean, unless you know you're safe at night

Well, if I am making myself a target, then I am obvtowning.

However, no one nightkills the class know it all.

So therefore my goal is to be right, vocal and brash. This prevents scum from lynching or killing me. Well if they do, town will know exactly where I stand and can sheep it.

[Titus]

Ranny might actually be scum. 41 is very professory and doesn't move the game forward. Rather it seems that Rannygazoo feels caught in a hard place and would have us debate how long RVS goes on for.

Not sure what to think about BM indulging this in 43.

[Titus]

he didnt vote based on a really weak rationale, he gave no rationale for the vote itself

Great. That's not what I said (or meant to say). I was arguing my own reason for suspecting Ranny was weak.

[Titus]

I also didn't really understand the attempt to sort you so early based on a 1-game meta and a couple of empty posts.

Why not? It's early and everything is weak. If it gets players invested, we can get started. Now if such a basis persisted with nothing more, that's scummy. We're at the point where weak evidence is better than none.

P.S. ben is town.

[Titus]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

Sick of being night killed on day one but ok with making yourself a target?

I mean, unless you know you're safe at night

Ben, can you please explain what you mean here?

specifically about Titus making herself a target? and how you infer this means she would be safe at night?

He's literally just asking for my goal here, so I told him. I don't get why and how you claim that as defensive to answer that question.

BM, your biggest problem is that you don't listen.

You didn't listen to 41 but you heard it. 41 is a scummy post for what it doesn't say.

[Titus]

Ranny might actually be scum. 41 is very professory and doesn't move the game forward. Rather it seems that Rannygazoo feels caught in a hard place and would have us debate how long RVS goes on for.

Not sure what to think about BM indulging this in 43.

Post 43:

@Titus: sounds like you have really high standards for RVS

Typo. Should be 48.

[Titus]

Yea, the way Titus is acting, to me, is in a way I'd feel comfortable voting her out of it came down to it.

But it's also brash, and scum may see it as a threat if she is in fact town, this targeting her at night.

Unless, she's scum and isn't worried about a night kill.
If that makes sense.

I have been nightkilled night 1, three games in a row by not being brash. I'd like to play to day 2. So fuck it. I'll tell you exactly who is scum and who isn't without caring about how it makes you feel.

[Titus]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

Sick of being night killed on day one but ok with making yourself a target?

I mean, unless you know you're safe at night

Well, if I am making myself a target, then I am obvtowning.

However, no one nightkills the class know it all.

So therefore my goal is to be right, vocal and brash. This prevents scum from lynching or killing me. Well if they do, town will know exactly where I stand and can sheep it.

Making yourself a target and obvtowning are not necessarily the same thing. If you play in a way which is vocal and brash, you may be a target even if you are not obvtown, as I have learnt in the past. The idea that you wouldn't be NKed at some point in this game is a strange one to be peddling at this stage, especially if you plan to deliberately play in a way where scum might be more likely to kill you. Are you trying to sow the seeds early to justify why you dont get killed?

None of that is what I am saying though. Listen for the love of all that is good, stop typing and start thinking.

I'm not saying I'll never be nightkilled. I am saying I am going to force scum into a bad situation if they kill me night 1 because I am sick of it happening.

[Titus]

Why did you indulge Rannygazoo's 41 in post 48 bm?

[Titus]

Oh, I'm not going to outright call people dicks. I'm not going to insult people's integrity.

There's a difference between tact and untactful. Being untactful might get me a scum lynch and decent wagons for VCA, which just lets me close out the game.

[Titus]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

Sick of being night killed on day one but ok with making yourself a target?

I mean, unless you know you're safe at night

Well, if I am making myself a target, then I am obvtowning.

However, no one nightkills the class know it all.

So therefore my goal is to be right, vocal and brash. This prevents scum from lynching or killing me. Well if they do, town will know exactly where I stand and can sheep it.

Making yourself a target and obvtowning are not necessarily the same thing. If you play in a way which is vocal and brash, you may be a target even if you are not obvtown, as I have learnt in the past. The idea that you wouldn't be NKed at some point in this game is a strange one to be peddling at this stage, especially if you plan to deliberately play in a way where scum might be more likely to kill you. Are you trying to sow the seeds early to justify why you dont get killed?

None of that is what I am saying though. Listen for the love of all that is good, stop typing and start thinking.

I'm not saying I'll never be nightkilled. I am saying I am going to force scum into a bad situation if they kill me night 1 because I am sick of it happening.

Speaking from personal experience, I get killed N1 often, and I don't worry about it. It's normally a compliment because scum know I'm a good player and hard to mis-elim.

I do frankly care. To pretend otherwise is dishonest on my part. I can't play because I keep getting nightkilled. That can and does fuel my motivation. I love the compliments, but my goal has to be to help town win, not get an accolade.

[Titus]

Can we both agree that Ben is town and move on?

This discussion helps no one read anyone and is going to encourage skimming.

[Titus]

Yea, the way Titus is acting, to me, is in a way I'd feel comfortable voting her out of it came down to it.

But it's also brash, and scum may see it as a threat if she is in fact town, this targeting her at night.

Unless, she's scum and isn't worried about a night kill.
If that makes sense.

Brash players don't get nightkilled unless super accurate.

[Titus]

--Link to votecount on this page.

I also didn't really understand the attempt to sort you so early based on a 1-game meta and a couple of empty posts.

Why not? It's early and everything is weak. If it gets players invested, we can get started. Now if such a basis persisted with nothing more, that's scummy. We're at the point where weak evidence is better than none.

P.S. ben is town.

I don't agree with your inference that town should ignore odd behaviour early in the game on the basis "everything is weak...it gets players invested", and it's an odd line to take given your earlier claim you didnt want to prolong the RVS. Are you really suggesting it was unreasonable for me to vote for Ranny based on my rationale? If so, I'd be grateful if you could set that out more clearly.

On Ben, tell me how confident you are that he is town, and why?

I didn't say town should ignore odd behavior early. Odd behavior is why I am pushing Rannygazoo. In fact, my approach is the opposite. Every weak thing should be considered to get the game going.

Given your basic lack of reading comprehension, I can be pretty sure you are town.

Ben is town because his angle feels pure in how he's pushing me. I can see his thought process clearly.

P.S. I still want to know why you indulged Rannygazoo's post 41 with your post 48. Rannygazoo's 41 is a particularly bad post. So is his attempt to call me a troll.

[Titus]

I just want to point out, just because Titus is saying I'm town doesn't mean I automatically agree she is.

Really weird mentioning it more than once.

The paranoid part of me makes me think if she flips scum it's an attempt to get me targeted next.

That or it's an attempt to get me to lay off my suspecion as why would I want to suspect someone who's baking me as town?

This is why Ben is town ftr.

[Titus]

P.S. Ben, I am going to keep mentioning you're town until Battle Mage agrees with me.

[Titus]

The weird thing is both battle mage and I are saying about the same thing.

But I'm town and BM can't read?

That's because you weren't. BM was saying I said things I never said. BM has this problem a lot.

You on the other hand think my playstyle is inconsistent because you don't understand site meta.

[Titus]

P.S. I still want to know why you indulged Rannygazoo's post 41 with your post 48. Rannygazoo's 41 is a particularly bad post. So is his attempt to call me a troll.

BM...

[Titus]

I just want to point out, just because Titus is saying I'm town doesn't mean I automatically agree she is.

Really weird mentioning it more than once.

The paranoid part of me makes me think if she flips scum it's an attempt to get me targeted next.

That or it's an attempt to get me to lay off my suspecion as why would I want to suspect someone who's baking me as town?

This is why Ben is town ftr.

he hadn't made that post until after you said he was town. at best, i'm calling confirmation bias here. really, you need to convince me (and apparently Ben) that you aren't just white-knighting him.

I quoted that post right after my explanation. It was meant as a case in point post.

Also, I don't really care what you think of me BM. I care what you think of others. You have a history of winding up in the bottom of my VCA for a reason.

[Titus]

Ok, this is going to be harder than I thought.

[Titus]

@Ranny, 41 isn't a smoking gun, but it sure is scum indicative. Scum like to focus on theory. Your 41 focused all on RVS theory rather than making a conclusion on a read. Even now, you waffle on your stance on me. Are you lock scum? No. Are you the biggest suspect? Yes.

I would suspect BM based on his 48 and engaging your post rather than realizing what it was, but BM is the type of player that responds to everything.

I'm cautiously watching superbowl, npom, and alchemist but I lean town on them. I wouldn't be surprised if one was scum, but I just don't feel it.

[Titus]

The amount of people townreading Titus would ordinarily make me think she is slightly more likely to be town, given high-profile scum tend to have a low level of heat as their partners distance from them. and it's normally fair to assume a proportion of those early game premature townreads is just scum buddying town.

However, I imagine Titus-scum would have been pretty zero-tolerance on her teammates undermining her in any way, so maybe not true here.

Let's suppose I am just any other player. Who do you think is buddying me? What standard do you use? Would it change based on if I was right or wrong on Ranny?

[Titus]

I think Titus is town. But I am rarely listened to day 1.

I agree. The strongest impression I get out of these starting pages is that Titus is Town.

what other impressions did you get

That Battle Mage is a technical player focused on theory. That’s not a read on their alignment, but it’s good to understand the personality of someone you’re trying to read.

That would explain why BM started discussing RVS theory. It says nothing about his alignment though.

[Titus]

Let's suppose I am just any other player. Who do you think is buddying me? What standard do you use? Would it change based on if I was right or wrong on Ranny?

Since we’re doing hypotheticals, I’ve got one for you: you say your current play is because you’re frustrated with getting night killed with a different play style. How do you think scum!titus would be playing, that’s different from what you’re doing now?

Scum!Titus is more protective in her aggression, when she is agressive at all. Scum!Titus prefers to kill with kindness, since kind people, usually, get more credibility day one.

[Titus]

@ranny why are you pushing up superbowl and ignoring NPOM completely? I'd argue NPOM's posting is even more devoid of content than superbowl?

Interesting that you lump those two together. For me, it’s alchemist and superbowl9 who are most similar. But alchemist is just null to me. They’re not contributing, but they’re not contributing first. Then superbowl9 sees that they can get away with a content-free playstyle and follows suit.

My last game was with NPOM, and I pushed him there, and it was a useless experience. I’m watching him, and I have my own things to look for.

This is just wrong. At a minimum, all three players expressed town reads on me which is content.

Do you have any certain reads?

[Titus]

Feels like the whole game is centered around Titus ATM when from my skim she didn’t say anything abnormal

That's for one of the following reasons

1) I am wrong on Ranny and voting me to keep two pockets of town fighting is a good idea, particularly if the goal is to persuade BM. This would imply that at least one scum is moving to pocket me as well.

2) I am right on Ranny and scum are hoping to divert and discredit my push, so they recycle the point Ben made while doing nothing to push the game forward. They're hoping I get so bogged down in trying to persuade the town of the rationale behind my play that they can push through my wagon on the grounds that I am defensive.

Regardless of which is correct, I would look at Non and hessian for scum as they did little to engage the thread's content.

[Titus]

Feels like the whole game is centered around Titus ATM when from my skim she didn’t say anything abnormal

would you rather it be centered around me?

Your play certainly is odd this game, but it reminds me of T v A. I'll let you persist for awhile, but I'll be watching you for content or results soon.

[Titus]

Flavor Leaf, what relevance does your track record as scum have?

[Titus]

I think Ranny v Superbowl might be S v T or T v S.

[Titus]

I think Ranny v Superbowl might be S v T or T v S.

Which do you think is more likely scum?

I'm still leaning Ranny. Some tonal things kinda sketch about superbowl9 though. The whole he forgot I was scum argument in a past game is pretty shitty though.

It could be S v S but I doubt it because superbowl9 shouldn't go for a pocket with Ranny at 4 (now 3) votes and him tied for next biggest at two.

[Titus]

The whole he forgot I was scum argument in a past game is pretty shitty though.

If you want to elim me for only remembering 2 out of your last 3 alignments please be my guest

I just said that argument was shitty. :/

[Titus]

I could vote Ben too actually.

VOTE: Ben

Felt like he was trying to make some nothing into something with me a second ago.

I don't necessarily disagree with this being Ben's strategy but I don't want votes spread between two scum suspects.

[Titus]

Basically if superbowl9 or NPOM moves, I will too.

[Titus]

Actually, I am the tiebreaking vote. Looks like I'll have to reread Ben's earlier posts to see if he was trying to do the same there and his possible motivation if true. Rannygazoo's case is simple though so I like it better all things considered.

Part of me says watch it be S v S and I am just needing to keep town together.

[Titus]

Actually, I am the tiebreaking vote. Looks like I'll have to reread Ben's earlier posts to see if he was trying to do the same there and his possible motivation if true. Rannygazoo's case is simple though so I like it better all things considered.

Part of me says watch it be S v S and I am just needing to keep town together.

You should find it's me doing the same thing I did yesterday, asking logical questions to see which responses I get so I can make a more informed decision about which way to vote.

The catch is here is that I am disinclined to think anything you did was "logical" as I felt my behavior explanation was perfectly clear.

As for whether that was your goal is something I'll have to determine.

[Titus]

*behavior and explanation

[Titus]

@non imh, what about that post made you think I knew the scumteam?

Why are you not commenting on any of the recent content?

[Titus]

In fact, your ISO goes backwards from commenting on Alch's 98 to my 64. That makes your posting look a lot less genuine.

[Titus]

VOTE: Benhalkum

47 doesn't look like a question that will help you sort at all. Instead it's just outright shade for my aggressive behavior.

So Ranny ben and superbowl contains at least one scum, with sb being the least likely.

Non is probably scum.

[Titus]

Not sure that makes me think you're town. I don't think we've played together so unsure of how you typically play so I'll watch others who have.

I just want to point out, just because Titus is saying I'm town doesn't mean I automatically agree she is.

Really weird mentioning it more than once.

The paranoid part of me makes me think if she flips scum it's an attempt to get me targeted next.

That or it's an attempt to get me to lay off my suspecion as why would I want to suspect someone who's baking me as town?

These two posts are inconsistent. If you were waiting to see how others with meta react, then why do you promptly discard it?

[Titus]

yoVOTE: titusdidn't get the nk thing

I think Titus is town. But I am rarely listened to day 1.

I agree. The strongest impression I get out of these starting pages is that Titus is Town.

what other impressions did you get

It bothers me these are the only two post from them.

BM and I went into detail with Titus yesterday on the "NK thing" but a lot of the other players are town reading her. However, you simply gloss over that and just say it bothered you.

Why?

I know why it bothered BM and I. But this seems SUS as hell to me.

Could be distancing. There is no follow-up but that's hard to do with an inactive slot. Punt on this for now.

[Titus]

Looked it up.

Mini Normal 2102.

And honestly, now that you bring it up, right now you completely seem scum to me based upon your play style there and how you're being now.

This is like the fourth person you've suggested as scum with little to no townreading of anyone (maybe BM).

[Titus]

Seems more of a OMGUS vote than a logical one at this point. Why are you threatened by being asked a few questions?

But hey, at least you gave a reason. Not a good one, but a reason.

More shade.

[Titus]

Overall, I find Ben to be seeking permission to vote, being weak but shady in his stances and being rather meek.

[Titus]

Ben, what are your actual reads?

[Titus]

Well at least night phase falls on a holiday...

Still would have liked to see more. I'll do my last reads in a moment.

[Titus]

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

Why couldn't he be a PR gambiting?

[Titus]

Non lmh - Probably scum, would vig as useless if not scum. This is where I would push if I were queen.
benhalkum - hopefully scum
Battle Mage - Lean town
OutWorldER - Lean town, was prob town before the hammer. I can see it coming from town.
hessian - VLA can't read.
wiyvern - Holiday can't read
NoPowerOverMe - Lean town, the fight with Ben could be S v S distancing though.
Rannygazoo - I think I have said enough here. Lean scum.
superbowl9 - I want to say town but everytime I do, my gut cringes.
Titus - Please don't shoot me.
Flavor Leaf - Gambiter. Plays an aloof style. Wait and see.
Alchemist21 - Solid town
Andresvmb - Gtmh town. Holiday lack of posting though.

[Titus]

I got fruit.

VOTE: Superbowl

Him, Nom, or Ranny are who I want to execute. Superbowl9 pushing for a policy lynch before we knew Ben's alignment was really bad.

[Titus]

I feel more confident in my reads since no one died last night, but I suppose everyone should feel that way.

[Titus]

Ok I missed the death. Nevermind on that last part.

[Titus]

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

real talk, i like you, but you hammered a town PR and didn't even let me post my shit first.

I think it's obvious him and FL are probably town given the reactions at EoD yesterday.

[Titus]

I feel more confident in my reads since no one died last night, but I suppose everyone should feel that way.

what is this supposed to mean?

It's an error. I missed Andres dying.

[Titus]

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

real talk, i like you, but you hammered a town PR and didn't even let me post my shit first.

I think it's obvious him and FL are probably town given the reactions at EoD yesterday.

have you played with him before?

Overworld no. FL yes. Such brazen moves are unlikely to be scum. FL!scum is unlikely to outright locktown such behavior.

S v T is just not happening.
T v S is possible but unlikely given the locktown status granted by FL. Be suspicious if FL walks this back.
S v S is unlikely as it's too dramatic a link.
T v T is the most likely scenario.

[Titus]

Join me on Superbowl9?

[Titus]

Spoiler: Quotes

Not sure why ben is self-voting at this stage, dont we have soooo long to deadline and he’s the first wagon? Comes off as scummy > desperate/defeated town imo

Not sure why ben is self-voting at this stage, dont we have soooo long to deadline and he’s the first wagon?

Comes off as scummy > desperate/defeated town

imo

None of the above.

Indifferent.

Indifferent people don't self vote at L-2

pedit: welp

Can we policy that tomorrow it needs to be punished from either alignment

(unless ben's scum in which case they escape with a warning)

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

Nope please do not minimize your quickhammer. The bad thing about them is that they mess up the normal flow of games/wagons and cut off our discussion time, which is especially important in this type of game where there wasn't much content to go off of

This rapid shift from we got scum wagoned to Ben is likely town, policy lynch OutWorldER is particularly jarring.

Bolded is showing the read shift.

Underlined is where Superbowl9 shows he has no interest in sorting OutWorldER if Ben flips town.

It's chaining lynches in its worst form.

[Titus]

I feel more confident in my reads since no one died last night, but I suppose everyone should feel that way.

what is this supposed to mean?

It's an error. I missed Andres dying.

yes but what would you have meant, if nobody had died?

like what were you getting at, when you claimed not to realise somebody had died

If nobody died, given Ben flipped roleblocker, a doctor would likely be the save. Since scum don't shoot people with bad reads (generally), it makes more sense to double down on reads.

[Titus]

Great, when you do, talk to me about superbowl9.

[Titus]

I feel more confident in my reads since no one died last night, but I suppose everyone should feel that way.

what is this supposed to mean?

It's an error. I missed Andres dying.

yes but what would you have meant, if nobody had died?

like what were you getting at, when you claimed not to realise somebody had died

If nobody died, given Ben flipped roleblocker, a doctor would likely be the save. Since scum don't shoot people with bad reads (generally), it makes more sense to double down on reads.

I suppose that would make sense, if everybody had identical reads.

But they don't.

So what in the heck are you on about?

Are you really saying that, if there is a doc save, everyone must believe they were shot for their own amazing reads? not everybody is so arrogant. And why does the Doc save even matter in that context?

I'm so confused

I think everyone should be that arrogant, at least at SoD, yes. It gets the opinions out there. It gets clashing ideas and town rallying around the best ones. The best ideas come to the top when

all

people are included.

To that end, please catch up. I want to discuss superbowl9 with you.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Quotes

Not sure why ben is self-voting at this stage, dont we have soooo long to deadline and he’s the first wagon? Comes off as scummy > desperate/defeated town imo

Not sure why ben is self-voting at this stage, dont we have soooo long to deadline and he’s the first wagon?

Comes off as scummy > desperate/defeated town

imo

None of the above.

Indifferent.

Indifferent people don't self vote at L-2

pedit: welp

Can we policy that tomorrow it needs to be punished from either alignment

(unless ben's scum in which case they escape with a warning)

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

Nope please do not minimize your quickhammer. The bad thing about them is that they mess up the normal flow of games/wagons and cut off our discussion time, which is especially important in this type of game where there wasn't much content to go off of

This rapid shift from we got scum wagoned to Ben is likely town, policy lynch OutWorldER is particularly jarring.

Bolded is showing the read shift.

Underlined is where Superbowl9 shows he has no interest in sorting OutWorldER if Ben flips town.

It's chaining lynches in its worst form.

For when you do catch up

[Titus]

It's not ok. But lynching town because they were stupid is worse.

Do you think OutWorldER is town?

[Titus]

I mean executing.

[Titus]

Look at his ISO. His reads are even more inconsistent than superbowl9’s. He goes from townreading Ben to quickhammering him in TWO POSTS. And for what?

He reread between those posts. He even mentioned in his ISO and made a meta comparison post flip. That indicates OutWorldER thought he was legit hammering scum.

Superbowl9 has no such explanation and might be buddying you in fact.

[Titus]

I think FL was implying he would self-hammer, but that’s clearly not happening

Honestly it would never happen if it was announced that the E-1 vote was just a test. And anyone else who hammers this early in the day would be lock scum.

Not sure why ben is self-voting at this stage, dont we have soooo long to deadline and he’s the first wagon? Comes off as scummy > desperate/defeated town imo

None of the above.

Indifferent.

Indifferent people don't self vote at L-2

pedit: welp

Can we policy that tomorrow it needs to be punished from either alignment (unless ben's scum in which case they escape with a warning)

Rapid read switch that happens to support your position.

[Titus]

And anyone else who hammers this early in the day would be lock scum.

you wanna fuckin bet

VOTE: Benhalkum

This is a gambit, but the gambit has nothing to do with ben and everything to do with how ER is read after the flip. The motivation here is backwards. Town should try to flip scum first and worry about how they how they're read second, while scum does it the other way around.

my post is memey but I had to do a big think and reread for that.

then I realized ben was bamboozling me. get the fuck outta here with that.

Uh huh. The trying to explain it away comes during twilight.

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

Already trying to minimize the impact when ben flips town.

This is tunnelvision.

The time between the posts supports the conclusion that OutWorldER did a fast reread.

Also, if you look at the game he was comparing to, it makes sense that he thought Ben was scum.

[Titus]

Oh, it doesn't count as buddying if I'm right

Smh. So basically you're saying that the pattern I am seeing is indeed correct but it doesn't matter because it doesn't match with your read?

[Titus]

No, I’m being facetious

Normally I’m wary of buddying and that didn’t ping me though. Not that I need it to scumread sb9

So you're scumreading sb9 yet his sudden read shift to agree with you didn’t set off buddying alarms?

I think I am moving you closer to town because you aren't getting defensive and putting forth townie inconsistent logic.

[Titus]

I'm actually leaning town but townbeard on Ranny. The type of stubborn pursuit in spite of his own beliefs on other slots tends to come from town. Scum tend not to engage when they have a conflict like that.

Then there's superbowl9's reaction and I doubt the pair is S v S.

[Titus]

I even talked about the potential of there being zero scum on the wagon.

While it does happen, I find it highly unlikely.

[Titus]

I am kind of leaning superbowl9 wivyen and Non

[Titus]

I just need to hear from Wiveryn, Non, and Hessian.

If Wiveryn is posting elsewhere but not here, that's enough for a scumread.

What Non has posted is sufficient to fade, and I already posted why.

Fair enough on hessian though.

[Titus]

Can't say I remember any of their posts, but Non's always LHF, so I wanna hear from them again now that some flips have happened.

I don't really care about his meta as LHF. What I care about is his big contradiction about where he was in the game and him hiding out after that.

[Titus]

Wtf is townbeard

A townbeard is a townie that's consistently wrong about everything so they look like scum.

[Titus]

Titus, wyvern was in Mini 2172 with us, remember? 6 posts and 0 impact on the game before replacing out of that cursed Town Hero slot. I do get the sense there’s scum now in {hessian, wyvern} but I don’t know if I can really rank one as scummier than the other.

Why not nom?

Also, I didn't follow the game much after I died.

[Titus]

What's the difference between townbeard and tstbs?

A townbeard doesn't have to be scummy at all.

[Titus]

Personally,

I don’t think it’s impossible for Ben wagon to be all town.

However, off the wagon was killed, so

I’m thinking 1 maybe 2 scum max on the wagon

for clarity sake.

superbowl9, Titus, NoPowerOverMe - is the spot where one would be on that wagon.

SuperBowl kinda looks like irritated scum. And NPOM immediately went to come after me.

No way is there scum that isn’t off the wagon

, so I’ll look there in a bit.

I don’t think Titus is scum here because the town reads she stated makes sense based on her skills with wagonomics.

lots of flip-flopping here. FL goes from stating it's all town on the wagon, to 1-2 scum max on the wagon, back to being certain that it's all town on the wagon.

I'm also not mad about the idea we look away from the wagon - think there's a decent chance of scum on wagon.

The underlined isn't true. By saying scum must be off the wagon, he's saying the entire scumteam wasn't on the wagon. He's not saying the wagon is pure town.

[Titus]

I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the person primarialy responsible for the D1 mislynch saying who is and who isn't town at this point.

Why? It's either associatives or scumhunting.

[Titus]

And I have pushed you, Titus, and Super Bowl as likely having scum in it.

Great. Let's do superbowl9 as he's in my scumpool. Otherwise, I am joining BM on wivyern.

[Titus]

Wagonomics I’m looking at, not VCA. Similar, but different

Yes. VCA is impossible atm. Wagonomics isn't.

[Titus]

@Ranny, SB is at 2 votes.

@BM, why are you so reluctant to join the wagon of truth?

[Titus]

Why wiyvern?

scratch that, we're going Hessian!

VOTE: Hessian

I just read her last game and...she's actually a very good, articulate, and active player as town.

hasn't shown anything here so far.

Hessian is VLA.

[Titus]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

[Titus]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

[Titus]

If one is wrong, I have a couple of pocket reads I'll keep hidden as it would depend on which slot is wrong.

[Titus]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

Superbowl can be replaced by NPOM for me, but I could see that as the team.

I'll reasses NPOM if super is wrong, but I strongly doubt it.

[Titus]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

what's your problem with me driving the town? So far you've driven 1 mis-elim already, and it's possible you are just scum, whereas I am universally townread (as always).

*points to where your vote is*
*points to your reluctance to vote any scum*

I don't want anyone driving who is flat out wrong. Flavor Leaf and I will drive.

[Titus]

I don’t feel like enough has been said about why Andres was nightkilled.

The fact that it was him, relatively inactive, and not someone driving the game hints that 1) his few posts were right, and 2) there’s a more experienced player on the scum team. The only real scumread he had was superbowl9. I know it’s WIFOM, but when I read a finished game and look at the mafia chat and why they chose their targets, usually the good wine is firmly in front of me.

I subscribe to this posting.

Your thoughts BM?

I know you're caught up so you should have no problem commenting on superbowl9.

[Titus]

I'll reasses NPOM if super is wrong, but I strongly doubt it.

Sadly I think NPOM is going to get a lot of clout from my green flip. It's a hard to read slot so if it is scum it's a great scenario for them

What are your current reads?

[Titus]

@BM: The person who targeted you is dead? And the only way of confirming you is gone? This isn't suspicious or anything.

Are you joking or serious here?

[Titus]

I'm kinda meh on the NPOM wagon. I'm not scumreading anyone on it (including FL as he would vote it). I just don’t think it'll hit scum. I haven't seen a major inconsistent statement that suggest he's scum, unlike my actual scumreads.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Quote Tree from Non

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

Sick of being night killed on day one but ok with making yourself a target?

I mean, unless you know you're safe at night

Well, if I am making myself a target, then I am obvtowning.

However, no one nightkills the class know it all.

So therefore my goal is to be right, vocal and brash. This prevents scum from lynching or killing me. Well if they do, town will know exactly where I stand and can sheep it.

Making yourself a target and obvtowning are not necessarily the same thing. If you play in a way which is vocal and brash, you may be a target even if you are not obvtown, as I have learnt in the past. The idea that you wouldn't be NKed at some point in this game is a strange one to be peddling at this stage, especially if you plan to deliberately play in a way where scum might be more likely to kill you. Are you trying to sow the seeds early to justify why you dont get killed?

None of that is what I am saying though. Listen for the love of all that is good, stop typing and start thinking.

I'm not saying I'll never be nightkilled. I am saying I am going to force scum into a bad situation if they kill me night 1 because I am sick of it happening.

made me think you know who scum is

Ben says a post makes me think I knew the scum team.

@non imh, what about that post made you think I knew the scumteam?

Why are you not commenting on any of the recent content?

In fact, your ISO goes backwards from commenting on Alch's 98 to my 64. That makes your posting look a lot less genuine.

This type of inconsistency and then leaving is an example of the type of inconsistency I am looking for.

[Titus]

*Ben = Non

[Titus]

Flavor, go ahead and move to NPOM. I want to see what happens there. I don't think a lynch in my scumpool is going to take until the scum actually start posting or I need to see where I am wrong.

[Titus]

Interesting. I suggest maybe shutting down the superbowl9 wagon and Ranny jumps on. I'm not sure what to think given he was on Nom before. That doesn't make sense in an S v S world.

If I am wrong on NPOM, that change is suspect.

[Titus]

Non Imh is getting subbed out in another game as well. His inactivity is site wide and less likely to be AI.

[Titus]

I'll claim because I'm not going to make much of an effort to shake the wagon off, I'm FV (gave to titus). I'm fine if you want to hammer as well, already pretty much said everything I wanted to about the game

you're claiming

town

fruit vendor...and you gave fruit to Titus!? eh I don't like that matey

Why not?

[Titus]

I feel like if NPOM is town here, scum would have just railroaded him? the lack of pressure makes me think he's scum, or maybe he's town and scum is incompetent.

Then why did you just shade superbowl?

[Titus]

UNVOTE:

[Titus]

VOTE: BM

[Titus]

Why the unvote titus?

i'll go out on a limb and say it's Titus trying to be unconventional and deciding that as soon as a good reason to vote you comes up, that's the time to unvote.

I don't like your opportunistic posting. At first you're for hessian. Then it's NPOM. Then it's superbowl9 at the same time. The wagons being S v S makes no sense. You make zero attempt to resolve this conflict at all. Then when I call you out on it, you go back to Hessian.

It doesn't read like you're solving but flailing instead, particularly with your discredit of me before finding out why I scumread you now.

While claiming we need more data to get an elimination off, you're not actually doing anything to get it. You're not showing a consistent thought process or any attempt to resolve the conflicts you report to have. Instead, its on to the next target.

[Titus]

SB9|BM|Wivyern is my solve right now.

I actually can see this. BM being a superbowl9 partner makes sense with BM's recent posting being god awful and him not wanting sb until it took off.

BM ignored my case on superbowl9 because he hadn't caught up (when he had the whole nightphase to do so). Despite his alleged lack of catch up, he had the time to pick a fight with me.

His push on Hessian is bad.

He comes to superbowl9 only when its popular, having little substance to explain the shift.

I scumread BM more individually but I wouldn't rule out S v S.

[Titus]

Why the unvote titus?

i'll go out on a limb and say it's Titus trying to be unconventional and deciding that as soon as a good reason to vote you comes up, that's the time to unvote.

I don't like your opportunistic posting. At first you're for hessian. Then it's NPOM. Then it's superbowl9 at the same time. The wagons being S v S makes no sense. You make zero attempt to resolve this conflict at all. Then when I call you out on it, you go back to Hessian.

It doesn't read like you're solving but flailing instead, particularly with your discredit of me before finding out why I scumread you now.

While claiming we need more data to get an elimination off, you're not actually doing anything to get it. You're not showing a consistent thought process or any attempt to resolve the conflicts you report to have. Instead, its on to the next target.

lol i'm just trying to do something. there are good reasons to elim lots of people, and im fairly ambivalent between them, but i do want more flips for info.

Why does info only come from rushing the day? We can wait on a Non replacement (which I am sure will happen).

You can't simultaneously bitch about the lack of discussion/info and do everything you can to cut it off.

[Titus]

Titus can you hammer please and just 1v1 BM tomorrow please

No. I'm not hammering anyone until we get replacements in.

This will give them and Hessian no excuse not to be caught up and give content.

[Titus]

I feel like BM is bussing SB9 here

Like I said, it's quite possible. Superbowl9 has just been rolling over apathetic today, not telling us who is scum (a policy lynch doesn't count). Given the evidence, I'm ok with nuking Superbowl9. I just feel BM is a better chance of netting scum.

Regardless, we need subs in here.

[Titus]

JF, what are your thoughts on BM right now?

[Titus]

Also I was looking forward to that pagetop you monster

Muahaha. I don't need much but the machine needs at least one page top a month to function. Two months if ninjaed.

[Titus]

Well this is going to be interesting.

[Titus]

I feel more confident in my reads since no one died last night, but I suppose everyone should feel that way.

what is this supposed to mean?

It's an error. I missed Andres dying.

yes but what would you have meant, if nobody had died?

like what were you getting at, when you claimed not to realise somebody had died

If nobody died, given Ben flipped roleblocker, a doctor would likely be the save. Since scum don't shoot people with bad reads (generally), it makes more sense to double down on reads.

This generally is odd.

Why the qualifier Titus?

Because there are two reasons where town with bad reads get killed

1) No one has good reads/wifom
2) Scum kill someone they cannot misfade over read accuracy.

These two options generally don't happen night 1 but are possible.

[Titus]

I've done a lot before. In practice, people rarely care about dead players reads. Anything is possible. I'm sure if things were brainstormed, we could come up with more reasons why scum may kill town with bad reads.

They generally don't, which is a point against superbowl. It would be much stronger if they didn't pass through obvtown to do it.

[Titus]

I've done a lot before. In practice, people rarely care about dead players reads. Anything is possible. I'm sure if things were brainstormed, we could come up with more reasons why scum may kill town with bad reads.

They generally don't, which is a point against superbowl. It would be much stronger if they didn't pass through obvtown to do it.

Who do you define as “obvTown”?

My EoD 1 reads

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12359200

Going down to Andres was just weird.

My BM read plummeted and my SB read has somewhat improved to would execute but not really SRing him.

[Titus]

however, Battle Mage can attest, I'm always down for a good mass claim.

haha yes!

I can kick off - I'm a Neighbour (formerly VT) - thanks to our deceased comrade Andres

HA what? this is funny.

Anyone who can counter this should. There are literally no stakes.

I'm townread BM for this, Titus.

Based off this post and who died I am sus of Titus + BM. Andres’s ISO seems to heavily imply they’d neighborize Titus.

Seems like if Titus is scum she liked the gamestate so killed Andres who gave her props and a null kill. The neighbor probably was a coincidence that would happen start of day.

@Titus if you’re town why would Andres neighborize BM instead of you and why are you not analyzing that?

And why didn’t you address this?

I missed it.

As for the question, it's literally impossible to answer. I have zero recalled experience with him. So why would he pick BM? I got no clue.

[Titus]

I've done a lot before. In practice, people rarely care about dead players reads. Anything is possible. I'm sure if things were brainstormed, we could come up with more reasons why scum may kill town with bad reads.

They generally don't, which is a point against superbowl. It would be much stronger if they didn't pass through obvtown to do it.

Who do you define as “obvTown”?

My EoD 1 reads

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12359200

Going down to Andres was just weird.

My BM read plummeted and my SB read has somewhat improved to would execute but not really SRing him.

I have Flavor as obvtown now too

[Titus]

Cool you’re EoD reads are garbage.

75% sure at least two reads are wrong. Which reads changed in response to the kill?

None. My reads don't change based on NKs usually early.

I want to see what you do with Non's slot. I didn't like it early but I need an active replacement to see if that was right.

[Titus]

I've done a lot before. In practice, people rarely care about dead players reads. Anything is possible. I'm sure if things were brainstormed, we could come up with more reasons why scum may kill town with bad reads.

They generally don't, which is a point against superbowl. It would be much stronger if they didn't pass through obvtown to do it.

Who do you define as “obvTown”?

My EoD 1 reads

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12359200

Going down to Andres was just weird.

My BM read plummeted and my SB read has somewhat improved to would execute but not really SRing him.

I have Flavor as obvtown now too

So you have 0 scumreads then?

So your read wall is useless in case you flip. Because if you were obeying it you’d be on me or ranny and not BM. Again what changed in your reads?

Where’s your train?

You asked which reads changed in response to the kill. None did. My reads changed based on play and the wagons I sorted.

BM's play surrounding NPOM and sb wagons was just terrible.

[Titus]

I don’t know the neighbor mechanic. Can’t scum be a neighbor?

They can. It all depends on who the original person targets.

The BM choice is odd and maybe being able to see all of Andres’s thoughts not just selected ones can piece it together.

VOTE: Battle Mage

I will tunnel you to death if you don’t explain.

To be fair, I scumread BM and that's an unfair question to him. No one can explain why BM was targeted.

Scumread BM for noise by claiming that but there's no way to know if or why Andres targeted BM.

[Titus]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

And you didn’t out this immediately with all his thoughts because .....?

Speaking of which do that now.

Wrong neighbor variant.

[Titus]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

Aha but it isn’t an unfair question.

Andres divulged reads to BM with his own words.

So asking for said reads is not an unfair question.

With those why BM should be apparent.

BM is being a smartass there.

There's no possible way Andres divulged anything. Andres would be dead before any PT with BM opened.

[Titus]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

Aha but it isn’t an unfair question.

Andres divulged reads to BM with his own words.

So asking for said reads is not an unfair question.

With those why BM should be apparent.

BM is being a smartass there.

There's no possible way Andres divulged anything. Andres would be dead before any PT with BM opened.

Nope. Hood existed based on TGP’s flip post and says add to.

And why are you defending your scumread? If I am wrong and BM is joking can’t he say so?

Mafia is a search for truth. Period. If you were talking tone or some shit, I wouldn't interject at all.

I'll recheck the flip post.

[Titus]

You are a 2-Shot Neighborizer, and aligned with the Town. You may post in the thread and vote as you see fit.
Abilities:
~ Twice during the game, at Night, you may neighborize a player by sending a PM to the moderator. If your action succeeds, regardless of whether you live or die, that player will be added to your Neighborhood at the start of the next Day.

Hood existed people get added.

I expect BM with Andres’s last reads.

I'll let this play out. I have my own opinions but it's not worth getting in the way here since I misunderstood partially. I still think you're going off an assumption and should look for more persuasive methods.

Even if you're assumption is wrong, BM claiming to be the target is just noise without data.

[Titus]

You are a 2-Shot Neighborizer, and aligned with the Town. You may post in the thread and vote as you see fit.
Abilities:
~ Twice during the game, at Night, you may neighborize a player by sending a PM to the moderator. If your action succeeds, regardless of whether you live or die, that player will be added to your Neighborhood at the start of the next Day.

Hood existed people get added.

I expect BM with Andres’s last reads.

I'll let this play out. I have my own opinions but it's not worth getting in the way here since I misunderstood partially. I still think you're going off an assumption and should look for more persuasive methods.

Even if you're assumption is wrong, BM claiming to be the target is just noise without data.

What assumption am I going off of?

BM claimed something, I am verifying the claim. What “assumption” is there since no one counter claimed? If someone did BM would be lock scum.

To answer that assumption would defend BM and give him an out.

[Titus]

Neither of us believed you fake claimed being the neighborhood target.

Mathblade's wanting to know the dead giy's reads.

[Titus]

Very reluctantly town leaning Math here.

[Titus]

The possible assumption has just been deemed impossible. Namely that Andres could not have posted in the hood because it was created after his death, but it was still made because of the text of the role. Thus negating any reads BM would be able to share.

Here, BM has admitted Andres got at least one post off.

[Titus]

@MathBlade @BM

I found a picture of us.

[Titus]

I've been eager to die for like the last 10 pages. I pretty much only want a policy today cause there was a QH yesterday so my use is minimal, and I'm not really keen to let a QH slide so I can scumhunt elsewhere. Also my elim would be pretty good info wise and my role is not useful on its own so yeah down to die today

This is part of the reason I don't want to.

This screams of town throwing a tantrum rather than scum.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ranny

BM can live today for passing a humor check. Game needs levity and activity.

[Titus]

Explain ranny to me

His opening was god awful.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ranny

BM can live today for passing a humor check. Game needs levity and activity.

Not happening.

We are sorting BM.

You never intended to elim him is my hunch.

Only question is if you’re trying to appear dumb because reasons and want SB9 or you’re scum with BM.

*mutes Math*

[Titus]

Explain ranny to me

Sure. Rannygazoo's terrible opening. I voted him based on a weak ass suspicion I had. He immediately jumps to discrediting me as a troll and it goes downhill from there.

[Titus]

My townread on Alch is also fading, but that could be turkey coma.

[Titus]

I do not have a high tolerance for toxicity. This is a game, so treat it as such. Personal attacks are not tolerated and will earn you consequences.

--Please keep this in mind.

BM is being a smartass

Wait? Was I warned for saying smartass?

[Titus]

My townread on Alch is also fading, but that could be turkey coma.

Why are you so desperate to not elim SB9 or BM?

Both are fine elim candidates.

I already explained them. Like within the past 10 minutes.

[Titus]

BM, do you think Math has a funny bone or did it get lost in the Pi?

[Titus]

My townread on Alch is also fading, but that could be turkey coma.

Why are you so desperate to not elim SB9 or BM?

Both are fine elim candidates.

I already explained them. Like within the past 10 minutes.

You did a poor job as my question indicates.

Humor does not make someone town or scum.

The game needs humor and activity both.

[Titus]

Poll: should I self hammer if math votes me

No.

But you will.

[Titus]

I have some more driving to do. I may or may not have my vote be as fickle as the wind.

[Titus]

Disrupting not in the obnoxious way, in a scum tactic way.

This implies scum is in danger somewhere, no? If I'm scum coming in to disrupt?

No, Disrupting is a scum tactic used when the status quo isn’t in their favor. Lurker scum getting replaced does make sense for scum to come in and want to try and disrupt, so I see the scum agenda possibility in both Math and Johnny, I just think it’s way too bold for the 2 of you to be scum making this play.

It also makes me question NPOM. I haven’t fully scum read the slot, but you guys are like hard town reading them, and I definitely don’t see that, which is why I believe one of Johnny or Math to be scum.

They could be WK’ing NPOM, I suppose.

Wyvern and Non Imh. Hmm. If they were both scum, who’s the partner? Super Bowl?

Doubt superbowl. I don't see scum superbowl rushing his own elimination when he could stall it out and actually advise his teammates.

If both are scum, I go back to Battle Mage or Ranny.

[Titus]

NPOM’s stock has significantly rose with the replacements.

That’s probably scum indicative, but I don’t know if I think Math and Johnny are both scum here.

That seems way too bold. I wouldn’t have even made that play.

I am bold as any alignment to be fair.

I also assure you that I will not be miselimed. Read the cockiness as scum if you want but it’s not happening.

I am bold for a reason. There’s one part I am missing that I wanna piece together but if I am wrong on it it’s really neg EV.

I agree, you are bold, but would your teammates follow you, or is this just bold town. I might be leaning the ladder with you.

The latter is indeed correct sir. I don’t think you’re group scum but imho because reasons this setup demands an SK if I am right on redacted.

Excuse me. Regardless of your alignment, MBOS called.

[Titus]

Johnny could be scum trying to disrupt the game here. I’ve only seen Johnny as town, so i don’t know their capabilities, or if they come after me immediately on replacing in.

Johnny and I had a recent scum game together. I can't remember the name of it but I can get you the link if needed.

[Titus]

As soon as Math and Johnny get in the game, Super Bowl and NPOM heat got split up, and it put heat on both their slots, splitting the heat needed to bake someone. That’s a scum tactic, i just don’t know who’s taking advantage of town.

Can you rephrase this?

[Titus]

it feels like Mathblade is really flailing aimlessly here, randomly trying to throw shade

Lmao.

What exactly is flail? I have a scum team and who it is and why. And a prevailing theory.

Again you’re not reading my posts closely if you think I am being miselimmed.

Very carefully. Because this Southern jar is so sturdy it won’t crack.

Gut says you don’t like my solve and it goes against your plan of redacted.

Of course now I get your crumb. You really are a horrible cook.

[Titus]

Alas now you’re probably scum. You coulda just townread me

But your crumbs don’t fit with my role very well.

That’s too much PR isn’t it?

I haven't been baking.

[Titus]

As soon as Math and Johnny get in the game, Super Bowl and NPOM heat got split up, and it put heat on both their slots, splitting the heat needed to bake someone. That’s a scum tactic, i just don’t know who’s taking advantage of town.

Can you rephrase this?

Right when Blade along with Fararr replaces into this area, the current wagon, and the loud one’s coals received less pressure due to the pressure getting shared with the others.

I mention it in my scum guide, as scum, when a scum is under big fire, a great way to deal with it is to make a lot of noise elsewhere, so that either people will follow your read, or they’ll vote you, leaving wagons to stagnate, and protects scum because they can’t get the votes needed to fade.

It’s a scum advantage most people don’t actively do, they subconsciously do it, and then the response happened, but they just roll with the punches rather than expecting it, but knows they succeeded. Does this make sense?

This would suggest more a BM and NPOM team.

[Titus]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

You’re not involved in the gambit

I'm not either. No big plans. So if you see a gambit from me, you can ruin it.

[Titus]

FWIW, I agree with Math's thinking here. I'm not sure if it's right, but I see where he's coming from.

[Titus]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

You’re not involved in the gambit

I'm not either. No big plans. So if you see a gambit from me, you can ruin it.

Okay then
Scum SB visits Titus to give her fruit to either legitimize SB or Titus or both
Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill
Titus doesn’t want SB or BM elimmed but wants to look weak and hopeless and no one listens to me and coast to end game.

Titus has been trying to hint doc/rb for a while

Uhh, at no point did I expect two kills.
At no point did I ever hit at doctor or roleblocker, and that would be pretty dumb to do.

[Titus]

Math, are you a Mason?

Like the Southern Jar.

Told you I am not getting mis elimmed.

No room for any more PRs.

Also told you I am dying tonight.

Yeah, you crumb terribly lol.

[Titus]

Masons AND Neighbors?

Mason is one of those claims that you don't really have to investigate until it gets much later into the game. It's most likely self-resolving. If we get to like 8p left, the mason should claim. (8p is arbitrary number)

[Titus]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

You’re not involved in the gambit

I'm not either. No big plans. So if you see a gambit from me, you can ruin it.

Okay then
Scum SB visits Titus to give her fruit to either legitimize SB or Titus or both
Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill
Titus doesn’t want SB or BM elimmed but wants to look weak and hopeless and no one listens to me and coast to end game.

Titus has been trying to hint doc/rb for a while

dude, if you're going to basically drop loaves that you and Titus are both PRs, are we losing anything by pinning everyone down to a claim?

Titus already outed I am a PR anyway. The risk was null. Much more important we elim SB and probably BM. I die 1-2 scum gone #worth

why did you let Titus out you as a PR? I don't get it man.

1) I don’t control her
2) Good luck with getting Titus to be quiet

Dude a southern jar was stupidly obvious.

[Titus]

I don’t think they are a mason, Titus. I feel like they’re setting you up.

Still, even if they are, you don't push an outed mason. It's a claim that has to be vouched for by scum at some point or he dies during massclaim. Let him push me if he wants.

[Titus]

I'm just going to sit here and say hmm while the neighbors look at me through my window as if I'm crazy. (not a crumb)

[Titus]

I think i have too many townreads for math's mason claim to make sense

Scum say what?

I don’t care about your reads I know I and X are town per the mod.

You’re scum. FV + Neighborizer + Roleblocker doesn’t all make sense

Too much town power

Actually, it might not be. If you suppose the FV is meant to be a false positive for a tracker and give the scum a PT cop too.

[Titus]

I think i have too many townreads for math's mason claim to make sense

Scum say what?

I don’t care about your reads I know I and X are town per the mod.

You’re scum. FV + Neighborizer + Roleblocker doesn’t all make sense

Too much town power

This is a scum slip.

I’ll wait til someone sees it.

I left off masons because I don’t include myself

hmmm

[Titus]

Can we get an agreement that no one will suicide anymore? It's frustrating to lose people like that.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the consensus is against Mathblade at this point. I'm not sure but at the same point if Math's right that's two people who are hard aligned with each other. I also disagree with crumbing a mason partner in general. TLDR, I think there's better places to look, but I wouldn't run it past Math.

Double moonlogic, Math and Flavor are S v S. Given how hard I TR Flavor, I doubt this is a thing. It would depend on Math scum first to even be entertained.

[Titus]

this might be controversial but VOTE: no elim

yes, i do mean the player.

What do you think of Mathblade?

[Titus]

Wow. Lot of posting here. Catching up before bed.

[Titus]

I’m not getting elimmed, good luck.

You are getting cocky because we’re the only 3 talking right now.

You probably won’t today. More than likely we elim in NPOM and Outer.

Based on how that flip goes will determine tomorrow.

If we elim Outer and Outer is scum then Flavor is conf scum as neo would also possibly be a mafia hood which FL is smart enough to consider so town Flavor is impossible. This makes me and Ranny conf town and NPOM conf town.

If we elim Outer and Outer is VT then Flavor becomes conf town making me Ranny and Flavor conf town.

This means we have three conf town going into tomorrow and scum have to kill in our mason pairing. This leaves whichever of Flavor or NPOM truth telling alive and we elim the liar tomorrow.

VOTE: Outer

Logic here is bad.

Flavor is likely a Neopolitan/Vanilla cop regardless of his alignment.

[Titus]

I already stated I was lying about my claim, which NPOM TMI’d knew about.

I was calling them out because they were planning on changing their claim.

I have a headache.

So you're not a Neo/VT cop
NPOM objected because he knew it to be false..

Why not too much power problem?

[Titus]

NPOM has been deliberate with word choice

actually, this is not even a town thing, this is a scum thing, i dont know why you are pushing this as townie.

Oh no NPOM crumbed something specific imho. I want to see if it pans out.

you caught him out then.

This is the same Math who thought I was crumbing doctor, so I would want to see proof. Yet if NPOM was crumbing a PR while claiming VT that's pretty yeah

[Titus]

Masons AND Neighbors?

Mason is one of those claims that you don't really have to investigate until it gets much later into the game. It's most likely self-resolving. If we get to like 8p left, the mason should claim. (8p is arbitrary number)

Can we get an agreement that no one will suicide anymore? It's frustrating to lose people like that.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the consensus is against Mathblade at this point. I'm not sure but at the same point if Math's right that's two people who are hard aligned with each other. I also disagree with crumbing a mason partner in general. TLDR, I think there's better places to look, but I wouldn't run it past Math.

Double moonlogic, Math and Flavor are S v S. Given how hard I TR Flavor, I doubt this is a thing. It would depend on Math scum first to even be entertained.

Titus, explain yourself.

Just because I wouldn't do it doesn't mean I blindly ignore the gamestate.

[Titus]

I'm not going to engage with FL except to VOTE: Flavor Leaf but I pose this question to everyone else: If mathblade and I are scum, whose idea was it to fake mason? Mine or Non Ihm's? Because we crumbed day 1 and that wouldn't be my style as scum. I'd want to keep myself open for different claims because I wouldn't know how to commit to a fake claim so early.

Not sure how you get Non crumbed as a mason here.

[Titus]

I think Titus is town. But I am rarely listened to day 1.

This here I thought was the novice or naive crumb. I forget which modifier is which.

I expected NPOM to be a n2+ action

That's not a crumb.

That's akin to me saying I suck at d1.

[Titus]

Like if the team is exactly NPOM, Math, and Ranny, then yeah.

Math and Ranny slots were also both getting pushed by Titus, and ScumMath NEEDS something or Titus will eventually catch them.

Then how am I still alive? Why didn't I die in place of Johnny? I get the whole d1 wifom but why not d2?

[Titus]

Hmmm

I think there’s still something fishy.

Titus when you hop on I have a question for you. It regards a super old game of yours. I just don’t know if I trust you yet and I want to reaction test you.

I'm here now. Just pedit me.

[Titus]

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

We don't know this.

It could be Alch No elim and BM in theory.

[Titus]

Hmmm

I think there’s still something fishy.

Titus when you hop on I have a question for you. It regards a super old game of yours. I just don’t know if I trust you yet and I want to reaction test you.

I'm here now. Just pedit me.

So does FL know about your Radiant Cowbells game where you faked a guilty then coasted?

The fishy part is with these role claims. I can’t put my finger on it. I am trying to figure out if he has the meta awareness to do something like that.

I'm not really recalling that specifically myself but faking a guilty is a common scum tactic. My partner did that in a recent game and I was the babysitter protecting all the PRs that kept dying.

[Titus]

I think it's safe to say there are not two neos and we did not get opposing vanilla results

So wait you and FL are both claiming Neo?

[Titus]

I think it's safe to say there are not two neos and we did not get opposing vanilla results

So wait you and FL are both claiming Neo?

No, I saw he was about to change his claim, so I claimed Neo.

I rescinded my claim.

Then he claimed Neopolitan and that Outer was Not Vanilla Town.

Outer claimed bg

Any reason you are ruling out an Outer NPOM team with the intent for Outer to validate NPOM's bullshit changed claim?

[Titus]

Like, I literally called out him setting up a Neapolitan gambit. You even stated Scum Neap balances the game out. TownNeo and Masons do not make sense together. That's just multiple wiggle proof confirmed town.

That is a compelling point in light of the power that has flipped already.

[Titus]

I don't have a history of changing claims. I obviously changed it because I didn't want to get night killed before I had a chance to investigate.

Why in bloody tarnations would you think you'd be the nightkill?

[Titus]

Titus I hereby submit my motion for you to appear and am subpoenaing you to give your opinion on NPOM and Outer please.

Still thinking it's S v S but I haven't read Flavor's defense

[Titus]

That’d have worked if Outer claimed before the check.
But I don’t trust outer. That’s a recipe to end up dead.

Wrong. Scum!Outer would have to claim to protect you most likely.

[Titus]

There’s a simple answer to this Titus will see.

Someone is buddying me here. Both you and FL are saying that I will magically see the game here.

FL, your NPOM plus masons doesn't work.

Math, I don't like how much pressure you're putting on me.

[Titus]

I actually do see Titus as being as alive as a point for TownMath, however

That's an NAI.

In the last game we played together, Math tailored everything towards being bad!town so I would townread him. So we executed his buddies and came back around.

[Titus]

I think it's safe to say there are not two neos and we did not get opposing vanilla results

So wait you and FL are both claiming Neo?

No, I saw he was about to change his claim, so I claimed Neo.

I rescinded my claim.

Then he claimed Neopolitan and that Outer was Not Vanilla Town.

Outer claimed bg

Here's the plothole I have. You and NPOM and outer is too perfect.

You happen to predict what NPOM would change his claim to despite there being two masons and that kind of claim doesn't make sense from scum.

Outer just happens to vouch for NPOM's claim.

Like it seems most likely that NPOM is just a scum rolecop given his alleged prior d3 claim.

I still want to find the partner though.

[Titus]

Alright. I'm caught up to here, and the biggest thing I learned was how to get a headache and I need to get back to the data.

[Titus]

There's at least one scum in NPOM and FL most likely as both are claiming a gambit that busted the other.
Mathblade and Ranny are claimed masons.
OutWorlder is a clamed bodyguard.
Titus and Alchemist claim headaches.

I think that FL and Mathblade are both town, or if one is scum its FL and he's pulling a double gambit with NPOM.
I don't like any of the three slots though that are outside NPOM/FL/The Masons, which puts me in a bit of a quandry because not everyone can be scum.

World's shittiest readslist but at least it'll help get people into the game.

[Titus]

Titus and Alchemist claim headaches.

Headache is not a literal role. SMH.

[Titus]

NPOM claims even night neopolitian after allegedly claiming VT. His result was Outworlder is not a VT.
Outworlder claims bg.
Flavor claims VT.
Math and Ranny are mason claims.

No one else has claimed.

[Titus]

There's at least one scum in NPOM and FL most likely as both are claiming a gambit that busted the other.
Mathblade and Ranny are claimed masons.
OutWorlder is a clamed bodyguard.
Titus and Alchemist claim headaches.

I think that FL and Mathblade are both town, or if one is scum its FL and he's pulling a double gambit with NPOM.
I don't like any of the three slots though that are outside NPOM/FL/The Masons, which puts me in a bit of a quandry because not everyone can be scum.

World's shittiest readslist but at least it'll help get people into the game.

I think both are is a possibility, but both are would mean the game would be exactly FL/NM/Outer. Possible but I don’t think it’s probable.

FL/NM doesn't mean outer must be scum.

If you feel this is the setup, why do you seem so against the NPOM wagon?

[Titus]

I think someone town in this game is hard defending scum.

[Titus]

FL’s not the bussing type so I’m ruling out the idea that that’s s/s.

Did you read his scum guide at all? This isn't outside of FL's range if FL is scum.

This would be drawing attention away from the third scum.

The problem is that I have too many viable theories and not enough people active outside Math/FlavorLeaf/NPOM to really filter them down.

[Titus]

There's at least one scum in NPOM and FL most likely as both are claiming a gambit that busted the other.
Mathblade and Ranny are claimed masons.
OutWorlder is a clamed bodyguard.
Titus and Alchemist claim headaches.

I think that FL and Mathblade are both town, or if one is scum its FL and he's pulling a double gambit with NPOM.
I don't like any of the three slots though that are outside NPOM/FL/The Masons, which puts me in a bit of a quandry because not everyone can be scum.

World's shittiest readslist but at least it'll help get people into the game.

I think both are is a possibility, but both are would mean the game would be exactly FL/NM/Outer. Possible but I don’t think it’s probable.

FL/NM doesn't mean outer must be scum.

If you feel this is the setup, why do you seem so against the NPOM wagon?

I am against it because of what I mentioned before.

I have had a townread on NPOM before and looking at their ISO to see if their claim had merit only solidified the read.

It’s possible NPOM is scum here. It’s just if NPOM is scum, FL scum and Outer/Alch scum regain so much footing and become nigh on impossible to elim.

On the other hand outer is more likely scum and the better strategic play. We have one wrong elim left assuming 3 scum. If Outer happens to be town then NPOM scum is likely confirmed.

Mainly the Outer elim imho has the best chance imho of flipping red and better for long term play if I am wrong. It’s mainly strategic and wagon analysis.

This reads like you don't want NPOM to be scum because you want to make the hero play and fulfill Superbowl's wishes.

I don't see how anyone, town or scum, reads NPOM's trajectory and thinks his claim gets stronger. Particularly one who says there's too much power anyway.

I don't really see you going all out to save NPOM here as his scum buddy because NPOM flipping scum essentially loses you the game.

Outer isn't really a claimed liar here either. NPOM is.

Your conclusions just don't make sense as either alignment and its infuritating.

[Titus]

Looking at the data, I think NPOM BM plus one more. That can't be the masons because they're a pair. I don't think it's OutWorldEr either. The wagons wouldn't be this static. Battle Mage likely was bussing the first time the NPOM wagon came to be but now is trying to steal that extra lynch to put us into lylo.

That still leaves one of FL/Alch/no elim though.

[Titus]

Superbowl9 had wishes?

The thing that sets NPOM apart as town to me is that it neatly gives us Outer and FL as scum opposing him. I’m not happy about have to choose between liars and quickhammerers and a bunch of anti-town players in general but that’s where we are.

Yes, policy lynch the hammerer.

[Titus]

The masons are hard defending scum right now, that’s why this game is fucked.

They specifically just want me to be scum and they’re letting it cloud their judge,ent, and honestly, I’m kinda done with this game.

If no lim and I come over, then we'd still have majority without the masons.

[Titus]

There's at least one scum in NPOM and FL most likely as both are claiming a gambit that busted the other.
Mathblade and Ranny are claimed masons.
OutWorlder is a clamed bodyguard.
Titus and Alchemist claim headaches.

I think that FL and Mathblade are both town, or if one is scum its FL and he's pulling a double gambit with NPOM.
I don't like any of the three slots though that are outside NPOM/FL/The Masons, which puts me in a bit of a quandry because not everyone can be scum.

World's shittiest readslist but at least it'll help get people into the game.

I think both are is a possibility, but both are would mean the game would be exactly FL/NM/Outer. Possible but I don’t think it’s probable.

FL/NM doesn't mean outer must be scum.

If you feel this is the setup, why do you seem so against the NPOM wagon?

I am against it because of what I mentioned before.

I have had a townread on NPOM before and looking at their ISO to see if their claim had merit only solidified the read.

It’s possible NPOM is scum here. It’s just if NPOM is scum, FL scum and Outer/Alch scum regain so much footing and become nigh on impossible to elim.

On the other hand outer is more likely scum and the better strategic play. We have one wrong elim left assuming 3 scum. If Outer happens to be town then NPOM scum is likely confirmed.

Mainly the Outer elim imho has the best chance imho of flipping red and better for long term play if I am wrong. It’s mainly strategic and wagon analysis.

This reads like you don't want NPOM to be scum because you want to make the hero play and fulfill Superbowl's wishes.

I don't see how anyone, town or scum, reads NPOM's trajectory and thinks his claim gets stronger. Particularly one who says there's too much power anyway.

I don't really see you going all out to save NPOM here as his scum buddy because NPOM flipping scum essentially loses you the game.

Outer isn't really a claimed liar here either. NPOM is.

Your conclusions just don't make sense as either alignment and its infuritating.

It’s PoE. We are in one of three worlds.
One both are scum >> We get a scum elim whichever way.
Two neither are scum >> Yell at review board for WTF and I really doubt this
Three only one is scum >> This is most likely based on NPOM doing this unprovoked.

Yes NPOM lied. RC lies many townies lie when they think it suits them. As much as I wish we could do elim all liars we’d end up with like no one left this game.

NPOM also as scum necessitates either a you or FL scum partner to do that claim unprovoked. This would be a huge gambit. I scumread FL and townread you so I naturally don’t want to give FL what he wants.

I am pretty much dead set on FL scum here based on the Johnny kill and how he and Alch shade me and Ranny.

The thing is, you're not getting an FL execution. You know this to be the thing.

You know FL scum is manipulative. Let him overthink himself.

He can't kill both of us and eliminate the theory that he's bussing NPOM.

Take the scum in front of us.

Look at the VCs. Battle Mage is transparently buddying the fuck out of you. Like if I was queen, he'd be the execution. I'm not, so he's not.


So wreck scum!Fl's gambit. Give him the "credit" for executing scum. Then execute Battle Mage for me. Then, you and FL can have it out if you have to.

[Titus]

That’s not the most likely though.

I am 95% sure scum!FL wants NPOM dead.

I don’t want to give him what he wants. It’s more likely NPOM is town here.

I don’t want to give a strategist like FL what he wants as scum.

Math, you're tunnelling FL so hard and you're trying to fit everything he does to be scum when he transparently isn't.

The refusal to claim his negative utlity is transparently a way to try and bait a nightkill.
Scum NPOM can know that town!outer is a bodyguard just by using investigative power on him.
NPOM is the only "even night" in the entire game.
NPOM originally claimed VT and then changed his claim when mass claim came around.

No matter what route is taken, NPOM is scum here.

I'm not voting Outer.

So you can either compromise on a lynch on NPOM or join me in starting Battle Mage to put off this fight another day. But if I die, you need to shut up and take the NPOM execution.

[Titus]

I know an FL execution isn’t smart but that doesn’t mean I do what he demands if anything I do the opposite.

That's surface level.

Remember how when we'd squabble as kids. I'd do one thing because I know you'd object and I'd get exactly what I wanted anyway?

If FL is scum, he knows you'll just oppose him regardless. Don't look at what he wants. Look at what you want.

[Titus]

I townread BattleMage.

This is just all sorts of no.

[Titus]

I know an FL execution isn’t smart but that doesn’t mean I do what he demands if anything I do the opposite.

That's surface level.

Remember how when we'd squabble as kids. I'd do one thing because I know you'd object and I'd get exactly what I wanted anyway?

If FL is scum, he knows you'll just oppose him regardless. Don't look at what he wants. Look at what you want.

I want Outer. I think it’s FL Outer Alch.

If I am wrong then to come back to NPOM tomorrow.

Yeah and BattleMage gets away. I don't think so.

Also, Alch hasn't been scum since go.

I'm willing to entertain scum!FL but scum!FL is only scum with NPOM.

[Titus]

Math, just give me a chance with going NPOM.

He's not going to. He's too far gone.

Discuss your Battle Mage townread with me.