Mini Normal 2179 | ENDGAME

[Flavor Leaf]

So, three votes on me "randomly" huh? Well, know where to start looking .

Explain why on first bite randomness a bandwagon is a good idea of you're not scumm.

Sup, I’m Pretentious.

[Flavor Leaf]

You guys want me to claim my negative utility or have it surprise you later?

[Flavor Leaf]

You guys want me to claim my negative utility or have it surprise you later?

That depends on how badly you’d screw with Night Actions.

Okay, zero. I’ll not claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Andres, I can’t not scum read you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like your post just screamed scum to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel it needs to be said, but i don’t think that my read is necessarily correct.

[Flavor Leaf]

At least you town read me, so that’s good.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, you get the half claim

[Flavor Leaf]

Feels like the whole game is centered around Titus ATM when from my skim she didn’t say anything abnormal

would you rather it be centered around me?

[Flavor Leaf]

Feels like the whole game is centered around Titus ATM when from my skim she didn’t say anything abnormal

would you rather it be centered around me?

Your play certainly is odd this game, but it reminds me of T v A. I'll let you persist for awhile, but I'll be watching you for content or results soon.

I just won 2 scum games is why, in the same day and a half.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Ben and I won a scum game at the beginning of this year as well. Might have been last year, though

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf, what relevance does your track record as scum have?

What relevance do you want it to have?

It was a clear answer to why I haven't put effort into this game at this time.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Ben and I won a scum game at the beginning of this year as well. Might have been last year, though

and with this, I just like Ben.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf, what relevance does your track record as scum have?

What relevance do you want it to have?

It was a clear answer to why I haven't put effort into this game at this time.

Not sure how that actually correlates to you not putting effort into this game.

I will eventually, I just need a break from using my brain.

[Flavor Leaf]

and when I start playing, it's not like y'all gonna like it anyways, lol

[Flavor Leaf]

im on auto pilot mode right now here. I might even just take the whole game easy, and pop out and solve outta nowhere.

[Flavor Leaf]

for all you lot know, I'm just doing this for reactions.

I'm good at creating hard discussion points, and changing the game's feel.

I also asked Superbowl if they'd rather me be the center, so I figured I'd take over whilst autopiloting.

It's playtime for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Looked it up.

Mini Normal 2102.

And honestly, now that you bring it up, right now you completely seem scum to me based upon your play style there and how you're being now.

And your thoughts when it comes to me specifically trying to get your attention whilst doing the exact same thing I did in that game?

[Flavor Leaf]

Down to the negative utility claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

I initially planned to use that as a way to feel out if you were town or not because I thought they were going to keep wagoning you, I was meaning to help you out with it if you needed it, but I already knew you wouldn't need me based on that game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Down to the negative utility claim.

This had about 3 usages when I posted it earlier, and they'll come out sometime this game probably, but they're not actively that important. Just a way for me to get a read on some people.

[Flavor Leaf]

Looked it up.

Mini Normal 2102.

And honestly, now that you bring it up, right now you completely seem scum to me based upon your play style there and how you're being now.

And your thoughts when it comes to me specifically trying to get your attention whilst doing the exact same thing I did in that game?

Not sure. Maybe assumed I wouldn't look it up as you know typically I'm pretty inactive?

I'd have linked it for you.

[Flavor Leaf]

nah, I'm lazy and didn't feel like logging into that account to find it right now. I'm talking a lot in my post game for the scum game I just won right now.

I don't mind coming across as scummy.

In fact, I'm welcoming it.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's kind of a "look at what I'm doing not what I'm saying"

because I actively said I wasn't going to play, so that's the buzz line, right?

But look, I'm actively playing.

I do stuff like that for baiting purposes. I just like chaos.

I'm the definition of Chaotic Neutral.

[Flavor Leaf]

nah, I'm lazy and didn't feel like logging into that account to find it right now. I'm talking a lot in my post game for the scum game I just won right now.

I don't mind coming across as scummy.

In fact, I'm welcoming it.

I feel like we’re the same person but with just one tiny attribute that’s changed that makes us not get along

I feel eventually we'll just figure out how the other one works, and we'll work great.

Cuz I just feel kinda poked at when I look at your avatar and anything you say.

So maybe friendly rivalry would be the best thing, which means I hope you're scum here, because I will catch you.

[Flavor Leaf]

poked at by like a thorn, though, but not a big thorn, one that I'd be too lazy to move out of my side, but enough to constantly complain about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I could vote Ben too actually.

VOTE: benhalkum

Felt like he was trying to make some nothing into something with me a second ago.

--Vote has been changed from "Ben" to "benhalkum" because the votecounter was picking it up incorrectly.

[Flavor Leaf]

i dont scum read ranny. i'm lean town. i liked the way they talked about my negging

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm feeling Ben is town here. His questioning feels like town genuinely trying to solve the slots he's engaging and his hesitance to vote feels to me more like a townie in the dark than scum. His reaction to his RVS wagon was bad but his reaction to this current one is good, still trying to solve and push even though he's being piled on.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Ranny and ben votes feel very opportunistic from this guy, and his current engagement with Ben does not feel genuine.

this is Ben's partner.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM is an easy jump because they sheeped where they did, and the playstyle they have. That's a distraction vote.

I fully think Ben is scum here. He's good with words, be careful.

[Flavor Leaf]

Put him to E-1, see what happens.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m starting to lean more town on Titus because this scumhunting feels genuine. Like, not just for appearances sake.

@Flavor leaf: the first rule in your scum guide is to take action. How would you rate Titus’s performance as scum?

She's pretty good scum. I would say Town her hard pushes more, and scum her will hard push to try to mimic that, but town her is generally scummier looking, or obv town tunneling town.

[Flavor Leaf]

that's not cut and dry, and it's early day 1, but yeah.

I feel like she can be genuine as scum, so look more at agenda with her rather than appearance.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm feeling Ben is town here. His questioning feels like town genuinely trying to solve the slots he's engaging and his hesitance to vote feels to me more like a townie in the dark than scum. His reaction to his RVS wagon was bad but his reaction to this current one is good, still trying to solve and push even though he's being piled on.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Ranny and ben votes feel very opportunistic from this guy, and his current engagement with Ben does not feel genuine.

you say his current reaction was good, but I feel like he just turned on the easiest one to turn on on his wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

I will say, I am appearing more confident than I actually am, I just hard gut feel like Ben is scum right now. I really didn't like the way they tried to turn onto me, then now NPOM. It just feels like scum trying to attack the cracked parts of the doors.

[Flavor Leaf]

I fucking love it. Lock towning Outer, lol

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I remeber him being the strongeest proponent of ben's elimination.

This is why I’m town.

Everyone sheeped me. I’m town who people saw me push, and might I add, I didn’t push Ben first, i pushed him after his weird posts in relation to me.

Scum came after I voted.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wiveryn is a newer player, i believe. They were in a newbie slot with me recently, and they didn’t post much there, either. They were a mason.

[Flavor Leaf]

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

real talk, i like you, but you hammered a town PR and didn't even let me post my shit first.

I think it's obvious him and FL are probably town given the reactions at EoD yesterday.

This is a weird play to make if scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Personally, I don’t think it’s impossible for Ben wagon to be all town.

However, off the wagon was killed, so I’m thinking 1 maybe 2 scum max on the wagon for clarity sake.

superbowl9, Titus, NoPowerOverMe - is the spot where one would be on that wagon.

SuperBowl kinda looks like irritated scum. And NPOM immediately went to come after me.

No way is there scum that isn’t off the wagon, so I’ll look there in a bit.

I don’t think Titus is scum here because the town reads she stated makes sense based on her skills with wagonomics.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alchemist pushed the same thing I thought was off about Ben’s post, which I sheeped.

Super Bowl trying to jump off Ben looks rough.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wait, that didn’t happen? They did that after Ben was faded. Never mind. Super Bowl looks a bit better for me now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I read Battle Mage as town. I’ve never seen them scum before, but I like to trust my gut with them, and nothing seems out of place thus far.

Non Imh, meh. Don’t have a read here.

Hessian, same thing.

Ranny’s a bit weird. I’ve never played with them before. I remember slightly town reading them for the half claim surprise thing, but Titus thinks they are scum, it seems, so I think there’s a chance they are scum. I wouldn’t say they’re anywhere close to being my first pick, though.

Wiveryn, newer player. Nothing.

So there’s a lot of holes where scum could be at. I actually wanna say it’s probably more likely that the Ben wagon didn’t have much scum on it, if any. Fast wagons early happen because townies hop on and think it’s funny to get something deep.

If you don’t want a quick fade, don’t put the wagon up more.

NPOM actually looks bad because they put the E-2 vote, then Ben self voted.

[Flavor Leaf]

I like Alchemist. I don’t think he’s done anything he couldn’t do as scum, but I actually like that he started the Ben wagon for the same reasons I wanted to.

[Flavor Leaf]

At least 1 scum is probably on the Outer wagon right now, even if Outer is scum, which I don’t think he is.

[Flavor Leaf]

How does it make you look good?

You were the last vote to push Ben over where he effectively caused himself to die.

Ben even went after you.

[Flavor Leaf]

That's just my reads based on Wagonomics, I'm not pushing to fade or anything.

[Flavor Leaf]

And like, I had just had my thing with Ben a page before there was actual reason to push him as scum. I saw a vote, and went, yeah, this is the right slot to pressure.

Then he self voted. Of course he's gonna get hammered.

[Flavor Leaf]

I even talked about the potential of there being zero scum on the wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

What are your other reads NPOM?

I feel I've given my thoughts on every slot. Where are you at?

[Flavor Leaf]

Ranny’s a bit weird. I’ve never played with them before. I remember slightly town reading them for the half claim surprise thing

Help me interpret this as an authentic read. What’s towny about being surprised that you would start a claim and not finish it?

I felt like you were genuine with it in a way where scum didn't have to or gain anything out of it. You could be scum, sure, but I'm explaining the main moment I remember from you and how I felt about it. Not much else to go on.

My town read on Titus who scum reads you means I'm actually more lean scum on you, if you wanna be real, because if Titus made good enough cases, and I didn't have any other thoughts, I'd probably fade you, so this kinda seems like youre actively trying to get me to push and come up with reasons for you being town here in a way where you can turn it on me if you needed to.

[Flavor Leaf]

That's not really applicable to be, if I were scum, I could fake that in an indistinguishable nature. It actually would probably be more believable if I were scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

So I guess in a way, you could see if I'm too believable on that end.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I don't think both would target Outer like that if they were together.

[Flavor Leaf]

I even talked about the potential of there being zero scum on the wagon.

While it does happen, I find it highly unlikely.

I think it's more of a less likely situation, than a highly unlikely, but I agree for the most part, I was just covering the bases so people dont give me the "what if it was an all town wagon" speal.

I think 1 in that middle is likely.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just need to hear from Wiveryn, Non, and Hessian.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can't say I remember any of their posts, but Non's always LHF, so I wanna hear from them again now that some flips have happened.

[Flavor Leaf]

here comes a curveball:

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

How is this a curveball? I felt like multiple people this game was trying for this.

Is this what scumBattleMage looks like?

[Flavor Leaf]

Personally,

I don’t think it’s impossible for Ben wagon to be all town.

However, off the wagon was killed, so

I’m thinking 1 maybe 2 scum max on the wagon

for clarity sake.

superbowl9, Titus, NoPowerOverMe - is the spot where one would be on that wagon.

SuperBowl kinda looks like irritated scum. And NPOM immediately went to come after me.

No way is there scum that isn’t off the wagon

, so I’ll look there in a bit.

I don’t think Titus is scum here because the town reads she stated makes sense based on her skills with wagonomics.

lots of flip-flopping here. FL goes from stating it's all town on the wagon, to 1-2 scum max on the wagon, back to being certain that it's all town on the wagon.

I'm also not mad about the idea we look away from the wagon - think there's a decent chance of scum on wagon.

Yeah, I’m a flip flopper.

People say the day isn’t over until I’ve pushed every single player as scum twice.

[Flavor Leaf]

Me being inconsistent is a good sign.

ScumFL big weakness is being too perfect and too consistent.

[Flavor Leaf]

I meant both things I said. You’re just nitpicking, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

here comes a curveball:

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

How is this a curveball? I felt like multiple people this game was trying for this.

Is this what scumBattleMage looks like?

nah you wouldnt be asking that question, coz im 100% NKing you last night if i'm scum here

it was a curveball as i resisted the urge to join the momentum-wagon on NPOM, to vote with him. I'm a maverick like that.

Why would you night kill me?

I was “the main person pushing Ben”

That’s the buzz line I heard.

I don’t think scumYou kills me here ever, not Night 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf and OutworldER look like they could be buddies.

I’ll be the buddy of anyone who hammers outta nowhere in that position.

[Flavor Leaf]

If it isn’t clearly obvious right now.

I’m a wall, and scum are trying to break me down. I don’t know where, but at least one of Battle Mage, NPOM, Super Bowl are scum here.

Neat

[Flavor Leaf]

People shading Outer is funny. They actually started playing and posting thoughts last page, with similar reads to me even, and we’re being grouped because of that. It means the push is being attacked.

NPOM is likely just scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf and OutworldER look like they could be buddies.

why?

We both called him scum, and i called outer town, and now outer called me lean town.

[Flavor Leaf]

People are trying to put the pressure onto Outer, but NPOM, Titus, and Super Bowl all jumped in fast after I did. I think all of you should be treated in the same way.

If anything, Outer is townier because they were the actual hammer.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm doing a FL on FL.

I went from thinking he could be scum, to thinking he's probably town, to thinking he might be scum again due to his disproportionate OMGUSy defensiveness on this page.

What do you mean?

I started pushing NPOM as scum first.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nevermind, NPOM voted me at the beginning of the day.

But yeah, we did t just start there, BM. It ain’t OMGUS.

And OMGUS isn’t scummy anyways

[Flavor Leaf]

I am a performer by nature, i have no issue talking to scum buddies.

I have already said my piece on outer, and I don’t think we’ve ever been posting at the same time,

[Flavor Leaf]

People are trying to put the pressure onto Outer, but NPOM, Titus, and Super Bowl all jumped in fast after I did. I think all of you should be treated in the same way.

If anything, Outer is townier because they were the actual hammer.

What? I started my "push" the second after that hammer

So? It still happened. I didn’t say this day phase.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I remeber him being the strongeest proponent of ben's elimination.

NPOM actually looks bad because they put the E-2 vote, then Ben self voted.

This is pure OMGUS.

It actually looks like pure non OMGUS.

I didn’t even vote you, AND i gave an actual reason.

[Flavor Leaf]

I gave like zero interest in you, i don’t know what kind of overreactive you are talking about. I said i could see you being scum, and i did some wagonomics.

That would have been said regardless of your vote.

[Flavor Leaf]

You wanna see the actual reaction to the vote that you ar epurposefully not posting?

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I remeber him being the strongeest proponent of ben's elimination.

This is why I’m town.

Everyone sheeped me. I’m town who people saw me push, and might I add, I didn’t push Ben first, i pushed him after his weird posts in relation to me.

Scum came after I voted.

Here was the actual reaction to your post. You trying to push it as something else is interesting.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm doing a FL on FL.

I went from thinking he could be scum, to thinking he's probably town, to thinking he might be scum again due to his disproportionate OMGUSy defensiveness on this page.

What do you mean?

I started pushing NPOM as scum first.

I don't know what your push on NPOM has to do with my post above?

Do you guys just not understand what you guys are saying?

I haven’t even voted, how is it OMGUS?

Like how do you ask something like that then completely not see the exact response to it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have had absolutely zero OMGUS this game.

Having actual reasons to vote someone who is going against you is not OMGUS. OMGUS is voting or pushing someone specifically because they pushed you.

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL I want to know why you think OWER is town and I'm scum.

I don’t. I’m still waiting for the lurkers.

I gave my reads based on Wagonomics, but I’ve already posted those. You can reread my iso.

[Flavor Leaf]

You guys are acting like the wagonomics I posted reads about were cut and dry, they’re only about 30% for my total read.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s why it’s totally acceptable for me to think 1 to 2 scum are on the wagon, but not impossible that none are.

I don’t think one or the other, BM, I think all of it, one of them is the correct answer, i need the lurkers to post to figure it out.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Outer and myself is exactly where scum would be pushing right now after Day 1. I don’t think it’s the correct scum play, which is why I think there’s a scum pushing one of us right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sorry, FL, but your locktowning of OWER lost some credibility with me. Either you're scum or you're not taking the game seriously.

Do not care.

I also haven’t lock Towned Outer, so yet again, you are misrepping.

Me town reading someone does not equal lock town.

I said lock town img outer as a joke because of the hammer, do I think Outer is townie? Yes. Are they lock town? No.

I’ve also specifically caught people out as scum because I’ve town read them.

My reads do not equal if i think they are town or scum. It’s not that surface level.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have had absolutely zero OMGUS this game.

Having actual reasons to vote someone who is going against you is not OMGUS. OMGUS is voting or

pushing someone specifically because they pushed you

.

remind me why you think I'm scum again?

I'm being slightly disingenuous when I say "remind me", because I don't think you've said yet, and that's one reason I called out your OMGUS. Not that OMGUS really means much. So I don't know really why you're going to such lengths to deny it?

Eh, i don’t remember either. I don’t know if that’s a good sign, or a bad sign, but i don’t feel like pushing you :shrug:

[Flavor Leaf]

That makes no sense. If there is a miselim D1 you should be pushing those who cauesed it.

I agree.

And I have pushed you, Titus, and Super Bowl as likely having scum in it.

Outer did not cause the misfade, Ben was already at E-1.

Scum is far more likely in that 3 spot helping to build the wagon than end it in the most obvious way like Outer.

[Flavor Leaf]

Disagree

[Flavor Leaf]

OWER was the one most directly responsible for the fade. Any suggestion otherwise is an attempt to push suspicion away from him

@SB: Please elaborate on FL's mindset.

Disagree

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ve just town read and defended so many scum in my day as town early game, I know not to trust that. Late game, my reads are generally amazing. That’s why it’s hard for me to be scum and not end the game early, because if I’m alive late game, i should have solved the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

If people weren’t okay with a Ben fade, shouldnt have gotten him to E-1.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s also convenient you’re talking like that, because you were the vote that caused him to self vote. He was even pushing your slot.

[Flavor Leaf]

He voted himself and got himself hammered. Usually putting someone at L2 isn't an indication you want them eliminated immediately.

I disagree.

That’s the exact vote I like to look at for scum putting the swing vote on. That and the fourth vote.

[Flavor Leaf]

If he thought I was scum he should have voted me instead of himself.

He did.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Casting my vote based upon post.

In the first vote of the game from npom, throws out a hi to Titus.

In several threads indicates they've played with Titus and Titus is town. Also questioned titus' vote changes.

As the game progressed now says they know Titus is great as scum.

Then cast a vote based off of just others votes, with no actual reasoning. Claims that because both have history with me is why abd they trust them.

One of those people is Titus that I don't recall having a history with and until today town claimed me. However, the weirdness falls of pushing Titus so pro town, which I believe she is now, but then drawing out how she is as scum then aligning with. I believe this is a distraction to pull away from the rest of their game posting, which is mostly short answers or statements with no relevant pro town help.

I also believe that FL is town based off of this as I do not think they'd quote either a scummate at the moment as when I flip green, it would cause speculation.

The scummate lives in another voter who hasn't said much/has deflected and/or not voted yet either for me or at all.

:Shrugs:

That's where I stand atm.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am leaning towards OWER being scum power role and FL being his buddy. No reason for FL to attack me instead of OWER here.

You are specifically attacking me.

Get outta here with misrepping what actions i am taking.

I a, completely just reacting to what’s going on. I haven’t pushed shit. I’ve stated my thoughts on wagonomics, but I’ve clearly stated multiple times, I am waiting for the lurkers to come into a decision.

You are like flailing and panicking for no reason.

You pushing me is slightly the only thing I can see as townie, but you might not realize as scum that pushing me here has made it like 80% likely for you to end up getting faded today. And before it was probably only like 55.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like you’re purposefully not understanding. You just have to read my posts to see my logic.
, it’s your logic that doesn’t make sense.

Why would his credibility be gone?
Those were still his reads, and now we know they were his genuine town reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

I disagree that quickhammers are inherently scummy.

I personally don’t think losing town Day 1 is bad either.

Ben shouldn’t have done that as a PR without claiming, (probably shouldn’t have in general, but the play was made, I’m just fixing it)

I think it was fair to assume that Ben wasn’t going to be a PR because they hadn’t claimed and they self voted E-1.

I would have pushed for that to be faded either way if it wasn’t, so yeah. I would have done the same thing Outer did.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wagonomics I’m looking at, not VCA. Similar, but different

[Flavor Leaf]

Super Bowl or Wiveryn it looks like is what’s gonna happen today. Interesting NPOM seems to have avoided being a top suspicion.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Superbowl

Let’s see what happens

[Flavor Leaf]

I wanna make it clear, I specifically was pushing BM for like a second, and it was grouped in with the "people who were pushing me"

Never meant to imply he was on the Ben wagon. That looks like an attempt at trying to derail my accurate wagonomics.

[Flavor Leaf]

Intent to vote superbowl9. I don’t want another quickhammer before prods go out. UNVOTE:

I feel pretty good about superbowl9 and then NPOM being scum.

FL’s “I’m too amazing to be scum” pings me, but it may not actually mean that his role PM was red, just like ER’s anti-town play may not actually mean he’s not town.

One of Hessian or wyvern is likely also on the team. We’ll never figure out until they start posting or get replaced!

I actually think this is specifically incredibly townie by them. If it was someone else, then maybe not, but I think the fact they're decently new and pushing hints at them not being newScum here, which I feel they would be if scum. I don't think scum push both of them as scum, in their position. It's just looking at face value.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also wanna point out that Hessian wagon is in direct contrast with the Wiveryn wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

makes me think Wiveryn over Hessian as a partner for NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hessian + Titus maybe?

Possible.

Titus played me correctly if she is scum here, because I think town reading both myself and Outer is town indicative. If Titus didn't town read the collective pair, one of us would have likely had momentum to go down. I thought Outer and I were going to be the scapegoats this day phase (we were), but the tube of toothpaste got squeezed so hard, we're looking for a lurker scum now. Scum probably thought it was gonna be easier.

[Flavor Leaf]

That looks like an attempt at trying to derail my accurate wagonomics.

I think you know this is false because I JUST stated I don't care about getting into the nitty gritty of showing whether a wagonomics argument is right or wrong since I hate it in general. I clearly just mixed up your wagonomics posts with your BM scumread, like I said I possibly did in my post about it. You still have reasons to SR me without pushing stuff that's clearly off base

Doesn't change the fact that it looks like it.

Yes, that's what happened if you are town. I'm not pushing it like it's the straw on the camel's back, we barely just got the camel.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

Superbowl can be replaced by NPOM for me, but I could see that as the team.

[Flavor Leaf]

If people aren't ready for a quickhammer, don't put them to E-1. E-1 vote is always inviting a quickhammer. E-2 vote is a good claim spot.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

what's your problem with me driving the town? So far you've driven 1 mis-elim already, and it's possible you are just scum, whereas I am universally townread (as always).

Neutral lean town at best this time.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

what's your problem with me driving the town? So far you've driven 1 mis-elim already, and it's possible you are just scum, whereas I am universally townread (as always).

Neutral lean town at best this time.

you're just salty and OMGUSy coz i scumread you

No reason why that couldn't have come from scum you.

[Flavor Leaf]

That looks like an attempt at trying to derail my accurate wagonomics.

I think you know this is false because I JUST stated I don't care about getting into the nitty gritty of showing whether a wagonomics argument is right or wrong since I hate it in general. I clearly just mixed up your wagonomics posts with your BM scumread, like I said I possibly did in my post about it. You still have reasons to SR me without pushing stuff that's clearly off base

Doesn't change the fact that it looks like it.

Yes, that's what happened if you are town. I'm not pushing it like it's the straw on the camel's back, we barely just got the camel.

This is my #1 gripe with players on this site, just because you COULD push an argument doesn't mean you SHOULD!

If you really deep down think to yourself that superbowl thought he would just accuse you of saying something you never said and think it wouldn't get corrected in an attempt to undermine the validity of wagonomics (which I have never done ask Titus!!! She has tried to get me to argue over VCA and I refuse!!), you would be a bad player.

I know you don't actually think this because you're not a bad player, but I think you think you can make the argument because it fits your predisposed narrative. It's just not helpful and makes us argue over stupid stuff instead of the ACTUAL essence of your scumread

Why shouldn't you? I think if scum, it was a good point for you to make.

[Flavor Leaf]

Especially if you could hide the actual reason like getting mixed with wagonomics.

Dude, that's a killer scum move, whatre you talking about.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like anytime someone says "experienced scumteam"

it's just their way of trying to shade Titus or Myself without specifically saying it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't want anyone driving who is flat out wrong. Flavor Leaf and I will drive.

PLEASE remember this tomorrow and take a step back both of you

I AM SITTING PASSENGER AND EVERYONE THINKS IM DRIVING

[Flavor Leaf]

I would like to note the potential danger of me seeing Alchemist's posts, immediately getting happy, wanting to vote NPOM with them, and then I remember Day 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

Everyone's also acting like my reads are set in stone, and I'm 100% confident on everything.

I'm like 30% on NPOM scum, and that's my strongest scum read.

I don't know shit, y'all.

I know Mafilosophy, sure, but that's not my reads. People are putting words in my mouth all over.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why shouldn't you? I think if scum, it was a good point for you to make.

It's literally false, like objectively you can ISO Flavor Leaf and see he never claimed BM was on the wagon. Why would I craft an argument off a so obviously verifiably false premise? When I say in my post "i might be remembering it wrong but...", that doesn't give you any indication that I

MIGHT

have remembered it wrong???

It creates a natural looking discussion, and forces the player to target it out, which looks OMGUSy.

I'm not saying it's what's happening, but if you end up being scum, it is 100% being used, at least now, as a way to get town read/take hold of discussion.

[Flavor Leaf]

What do people think about Alchemist? I don't think I'm going to be able to see if it's scumAlchemist until right before I'm night killed.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's still discussion.

Time is but a moment, an explosion of art in the singular instance.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm also past it and over it, I don't know why you said I don't want to back off my point.

I moved past it after my first explanation of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm shotgun

[Flavor Leaf]

I have a feeling FL is having conflicting thoughts about the role he wants to be playing.

Depends what you think I want to be playing.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you think I want to play as town, you are correct. I have rolled scum way too many times the past couple years, sometimes 4 times at once, frankly, I'm done with it.

I also just won 2 scum games this week.

If you think I want to play as scum, you are incorrect. It's something I can essentially do with ease now, but it still takes effort.

Town is easier to low effort some of the time, and high effort when you wanna solve.

Scum requires a medium amount of effort all of the time, and high effort some of the time.

[Flavor Leaf]

you're saying you're backseat but you have the highest postcount.

Cuz I got the gift of gab, baby.

You think I'm not the one talking the most when I'm sitting in the Passenger?

I am specifically saying I am not back seat.

I am front seat.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would like to note the potential danger of me seeing Alchemist's posts, immediately getting happy, wanting to vote NPOM with them, and then I remember Day 1.

I kinda doubt we see a repeat performance of Ben’s wagon.

I never doubt what the combined effort of hungry scum and town not thinking will do.

[Flavor Leaf]

Y'all, we should mass claim.

NPOM first.

[Flavor Leaf]

People so against mass claiming.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Titus - you sure NPOM is town? I really don't like their pushes and they look completely reactive.

[Flavor Leaf]

they're so jumpy.

[Flavor Leaf]

I see a world where I could be 90%, and their reaction also made me feel that way, in a way. I could be wrong, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I see a world where I could be 90%, and their reaction also made me feel that way, in a way. I could be wrong, though.

In this world, my read of zero scum on the Ben wagon would raise.

[Flavor Leaf]

Y'all, we should mass claim.

NPOM first.

i would like to point out this was a test more than a suggestion.

[Flavor Leaf]

however, Battle Mage can attest, I'm always down for a good mass claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

There's a lot to be reactive on between self voting, quickhammers, and an early massclaim request.

and somehow, you are the main common denominator of all 3 of those, huh, would you look at that.

[Flavor Leaf]

you were the final vote, and the vote prior to the self vote which lead to the quickhammer.

you were in the post that the massclaim was requested.

Interesting, how very interesting.

[Flavor Leaf]

I only smoke doinks.

[Flavor Leaf]

I only smoke doinks.

and fools.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it's interesting that you think OWER is town and you're up my butt instead of his.

You're more directly obnoxious and contradicting of me.

Outer's on my radar, I just think it's more telling that people are acting like I'm hard town reading Outer simply because I liked the quickhammer. They are not nearly as town read as people are making it out to be, which makes me town read them more.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also just stated a world where I could see you being a 90% or more town read, did I not?

I'm also voting Superbowl, not you.

So yes, you are overreacting majorly.

[Flavor Leaf]

in an overreacting manner.

I'm half trolling you because I'm bored.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't know why scum him would fake that. if he's scum, it still happened, probably.

[Flavor Leaf]

it is kinda weird that it's just now coming up

[Flavor Leaf]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

the neighborhood was created prior to Andres dying? I thought he was a neighborizer, where you get the neighborhood when he successfully targets.

[Flavor Leaf]

it is kinda weird that it's just now coming up

it's weird that i waited until a massclaim to claim?

oh, we aren't really massclaiming, but this does make sense then.

Might as well full send then.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM, you up

[Flavor Leaf]

but how did he say you were the towniest?

[Flavor Leaf]

but how did he say you were the towniest?

he said it in the PT before he died. or do you mean, how did he describe it?

Why was the PT created before he targeted you, is what I’m asking.

[Flavor Leaf]

but how did he say you were the towniest?

he said it in the PT before he died. or do you mean, how did he describe it?

Why was the PT created before he targeted you, is what I’m asking.

dunno, he had it since start of day 1, but didnt post in it until start of night 1

hmm, that's odd. I thought it gets created when they succeed.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eyy, Johnny

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like there was only like 1 active scum player and the lurkers were scum, because I usually don’t gain this level of disinterest, which means it was likely a bunch of townies and 1 scum player rambling circular WIFOM left and right, so it was impossible to tell the difference between town rambling and scum rambling because no associatives to play off. Yes, there were some stuff day 1, but nothing new has happened, ya know.

Hopefully Johnny can breathe some life.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like there was only like 1 active scum player and the lurkers were scum, because I usually don’t gain this level of disinterest, which means it was likely a bunch of townies and 1 scum player rambling circular WIFOM left and right, so it was impossible to tell the difference between town rambling and scum rambling because no associatives to play off. Yes, there were some stuff day 1, but nothing new has happened, ya know.

Hopefully Johnny can breathe some life.

[Flavor Leaf]

He self voted to E-1 followed by a quick ish hammer.

[Flavor Leaf]

I've done a lot before. In practice, people rarely care about dead players reads. Anything is possible. I'm sure if things were brainstormed, we could come up with more reasons why scum may kill town with bad reads.

They generally don't, which is a point against superbowl. It would be much stronger if they didn't pass through obvtown to do it.

Who do you define as “obvTown”?

My EoD 1 reads

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12359200

Going down to Andres was just weird.

My BM read plummeted and my SB read has somewhat improved to would execute but not really SRing him.

I have Flavor as obvtown now too

So you have 0 scumreads then?

So your read wall is useless in case you flip. Because if you were obeying it you’d be on me or ranny and not BM. Again what changed in your reads?

Where’s your train?

What did this have to do with the quote you responded to?

Also, damn, so many pages to catch up on haha

[Flavor Leaf]

@Johnny - I think you just want me to be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re quoting a lot of my sarcastic posts that got taken more seriously than I expected them to, but energy stopped me from shutting the after effects down.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re quoting a lot of my sarcastic posts that got taken more seriously than I expected them to, but energy stopped me from shutting the after effects down.

Then you don’t have a problem outing your neg util yeah?

Wouldn’t you like to know.

[Flavor Leaf]

So wyvern is Johnny.

Hessian is Mathblade?

[Flavor Leaf]

Non Imh, got it.

I need to read the pages, just skimmed it. But I’ll be around. Do what you do.

[Flavor Leaf]

Down to the negative utility claim.

This had about 3 usages when I posted it earlier, and they'll come out sometime this game probably, but they're not actively that important. Just a way for me to get a read on some people.

Btw if I am right you should claim your neg utility now.

Just in case I am wrong on one of those three.

Are you talking about the SK?

Yes, you are right. I’m a survivor. (This is not normal, please note my sarcasm). I feel like I should start putting a * in my sarcastic posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m always 3rd party.

[Flavor Leaf]

Except when I’m scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Johnny could be scum trying to disrupt the game here. I’ve only seen Johnny as town, so i don’t know their capabilities, or if they come after me immediately on replacing in.

[Flavor Leaf]

Disrupting not in the obnoxious way, in a scum tactic way.

I could see him instantly replacing in and choosing to purposefully change the status quo.

Coming after me here is a really bold move as scum. It pays well if done correctly, but yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM’s stock has significantly rose with the replacements.

That’s probably scum indicative, but I don’t know if I think Math and Johnny are both scum here.

That seems way too bold. I wouldn’t have even made that play.

[Flavor Leaf]

Disrupting not in the obnoxious way, in a scum tactic way.

This implies scum is in danger somewhere, no? If I'm scum coming in to disrupt?

No, Disrupting is a scum tactic used when the status quo isn’t in their favor. Lurker scum getting replaced does make sense for scum to come in and want to try and disrupt, so I see the scum agenda possibility in both Math and Johnny, I just think it’s way too bold for the 2 of you to be scum making this play.

It also makes me question NPOM. I haven’t fully scum read the slot, but you guys are like hard town reading them, and I definitely don’t see that, which is why I believe one of Johnny or Math to be scum.

They could be WK’ing NPOM, I suppose.

Wyvern and Non Imh. Hmm. If they were both scum, who’s the partner? Super Bowl?

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM’s stock has significantly rose with the replacements.

That’s probably scum indicative, but I don’t know if I think Math and Johnny are both scum here.

That seems way too bold. I wouldn’t have even made that play.

I am bold as any alignment to be fair.

I also assure you that I will not be miselimed. Read the cockiness as scum if you want but it’s not happening.

I am bold for a reason. There’s one part I am missing that I wanna piece together but if I am wrong on it it’s really neg EV.

I agree, you are bold, but would your teammates follow you, or is this just bold town. I might be leaning the ladder with you.

[Flavor Leaf]

What’s not happening?

If you were insinuating a fade on you is not happening, that seems completely frantic. I wasn’t even pushing anyone yet, my vote is still on SB.

I’m essentially thinking out loud right now, and letting people hear where I’m coming from.

I could make it happen if I really thought you were scum, simple, I wouldn’t converse with you, I would converse around you to get faded, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

Disrupting not in the obnoxious way, in a scum tactic way.

This implies scum is in danger somewhere, no? If I'm scum coming in to disrupt?

No, Disrupting is a scum tactic used when the status quo isn’t in their favor. Lurker scum getting replaced does make sense for scum to come in and want to try and disrupt, so I see the scum agenda possibility in both Math and Johnny, I just think it’s way too bold for the 2 of you to be scum making this play.

It also makes me question NPOM. I haven’t fully scum read the slot, but you guys are like hard town reading them, and I definitely don’t see that, which is why I believe one of Johnny or Math to be scum.

They could be WK’ing NPOM, I suppose.

Wyvern and Non Imh. Hmm. If they were both scum, who’s the partner? Super Bowl?

i dont think that trio does that NK.

Why? The day was quick. Titus, Superbowl, and I don’t look great for the Ben wagon, the lurkers aren’t dangerous.

I think that’s the exact type of Night Kill that team makes, especially if they don’t really discuss it too much.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think that’s the part they were talking aout

[Flavor Leaf]

So...like, I’ve heard that said a few times, and it’s gonna incriminate me so hard, but I feel like I gotta bring it up.

Andres is one of the stronger players in this game. He can even probably take me down in a 1v1.

I just won a scum game against him where he was the biggest threat against me, and he’s played on other sites, like Mafia451. I played a game over him there, as scum, in a giant game, and i don’t remember him there much, but he’s not a lesser experienced player.

[Flavor Leaf]

At least you town read me, so that’s good.

Johnny also targeted this post by me, and this was an inside joke between Andres and I. I like to say he always hard town reads me even when he hard scum reads me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Obviously, Johnny didn’t know it was an inside joke but it looks like the type of post scum try to attack.

[Flavor Leaf]

So...like, I’ve heard that said a few times, and it’s gonna incriminate me so hard, but I feel like I gotta bring it up.

Andres is one of the stronger players in this game. He can even probably take me down in a 1v1.

I just won a scum game against him where he was the biggest threat against me, and he’s played on other sites, like Mafia451. I played a game over him there, as scum, in a giant game, and i don’t remember him there much, but he’s not a lesser experienced player.

let me rephrase, I guess I mean "less well known". I definitely get the sense from his posts that he is good, but he isn't a 'big name' like you/Titus

That’s why I think he makes sense as the kill. Titus and I are easier to cast paranoia or shade on.

[Flavor Leaf]

And we were on the Ben wagon, if not drivers of the Ben wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

The off the wagon kill implies scum want an on the wagon fade.

[Flavor Leaf]

Scratch that, they don’t necessarily want an on the wagon fade, they expect an on the wagon fade. Whether they want it or not is up for debate.

[Flavor Leaf]

it feels like Mathblade is really flailing aimlessly here, randomly trying to throw shade

I mean, yeah, I could fade mathblade, but i don’t know if they flip scum. I do think there is scum within the replacements, Super Bowl, and NPOM.

Likely multiple.

[Flavor Leaf]

As soon as Math and Johnny get in the game, Super Bowl and NPOM heat got split up, and it put heat on both their slots, splitting the heat needed to bake someone. That’s a scum tactic, i just don’t know who’s taking advantage of town.

[Flavor Leaf]

As soon as Math and Johnny get in the game, Super Bowl and NPOM heat got split up, and it put heat on both their slots, splitting the heat needed to bake someone. That’s a scum tactic, i just don’t know who’s taking advantage of town.

Can you rephrase this?

Right when Blade along with Fararr replaces into this area, the current wagon, and the loud one’s coals received less pressure due to the pressure getting shared with the others.

I mention it in my scum guide, as scum, when a scum is under big fire, a great way to deal with it is to make a lot of noise elsewhere, so that either people will follow your read, or they’ll vote you, leaving wagons to stagnate, and protects scum because they can’t get the votes needed to fade.

It’s a scum advantage most people don’t actively do, they subconsciously do it, and then the response happened, but they just roll with the punches rather than expecting it, but knows they succeeded. Does this make sense?

[Flavor Leaf]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I were gambited, I’d be conf town by now and y’all would be questioning it, but still likely not do much about it until a few days.

You’re not involved in the gambit

I am always involved in the gambit.

[Flavor Leaf]

I will say the fruit claim pinged me too, but i don’t see why Titus as town wouldn’t claim fruit.

But yes, fruit gambits are solid, I’ve played a few myself as scum.

I don’t hate Math’s take on it, tbh

[Flavor Leaf]

BM, usually you’ve been obv town for me, and here you’re neutral town at best.

I’m noting this for post game if you end up being scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Math, are you a Mason?

[Flavor Leaf]

I have my own theory.

[Flavor Leaf]

I had a feeling that there might have been a Scum Mason Claim gambit going on with NPOM, Johnny, or Math.

Math might have confirmed it.

You said you are bold, correct?

So pushing Titus for pulling a gambit to tie her and Superbowl together and going for a Mason claim setup gambit is the type of thing you might do as scum, right?

[Flavor Leaf]

Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill

Whoa wait what? When did Titus say that?

I thought mini normal games are never multiball. There can’t be an SK.

He can’t push me as scum, so I think he was trying to shade me some other way.

I also feel like scum tried to target me last night based on Math’s trying to get my negative utility claim out, and then listing a bunch of 3rd parties next to Ascetic.

[Flavor Leaf]

I had a feeling that there might have been a Scum Mason Claim gambit going on with NPOM, Johnny, or Math.

Math might have confirmed it.

You said you are bold, correct?

So pushing Titus for pulling a gambit to tie her and Superbowl together and going for a Mason claim setup gambit is the type of thing you might do as scum, right?

Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill

Whoa wait what? When did Titus say that?

I thought mini normal games are never multiball. There can’t be an SK.

Normal games can have an SK unless the rules changed.

I think they did change.

Large Normals can have it, but Mini’s can’t.

I should know this by heart, but I was gone for like 6 months.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do use my Mason jars a lot.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think they are a mason, Titus. I feel like they’re setting you up.

[Flavor Leaf]

I had a feeling that there might have been a Scum Mason Claim gambit going on with NPOM, Johnny, or Math.

Math might have confirmed it.

You said you are bold, correct?

So pushing Titus for pulling a gambit to tie her and Superbowl together and going for a Mason claim setup gambit is the type of thing you might do as scum, right?

And no. Fake claiming masons would not be something done in this scenario, I have done wild claims but they’ve been to the wire and are sold and you want them. I am a good scum and generally never have to fake claim if scum. If I do I did something wrong.

In this case you’ll notice post one of mine >> mason hint

Not fake claiming and being good scum don’t go hand in hand.

I like to fake claim almost always. Even as town.

I also don’t think that was a bad scum play, it just looks forced.

Why would someone replace out of a mason slot like that?

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM-Johnny-Math.

Occam’s razor worked in Xenoblade, I’m on a roll as town. I’ll reevaluate if I think I am wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

i also specifically thought about scum playing a mason gambit with Super Bowl/NPOM as well.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would someone replace out of a mason slot like that?

This is NAI. Non replaced out of 2 games at once.

Doesn’t mean it’s NAI.

[Flavor Leaf]

But i won’t use that as a reason.

[Flavor Leaf]

I could see scum setting up a mason claim with NPOM/Super Bowl, then Math replaced in and took over the gambit.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think they are a mason, Titus. I feel like they’re setting you up.

Still, even if they are, you don't push an outed mason. It's a claim that has to be vouched for by scum at some point or he dies during massclaim. Let him push me if he wants.

I just won a scum game because I took advantage of this mindset.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m gonna take a break.

See what my thoughts are later. I’ll stop the tunnel from happening early

[Flavor Leaf]

I want NPOM dead then.

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE: Superbowl

[Flavor Leaf]

I think i have too many townreads for math's mason claim to make sense

Scum say what?

I don’t care about your reads I know I and X are town per the mod.

You’re scum. FV + Neighborizer + Roleblocker doesn’t all make sense

Too much town power

This is a scum slip.

I’ll wait til someone sees it.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: superbowl9

Dude, you’re getting worked by scum trying to misfade you.