Mini Normal 2179 | ENDGAME

[Rannygazoo]

Let’s generate some noise from which we will derive associations or motives
VOTE: Non Imh

[Rannygazoo]

IIRC she did a similar trolly maneuver in Mini Theme 2172

[Rannygazoo]

Were you scum? Was she scum?

No and no

So, three votes on me "randomly" huh? Well, know where to start looking .

Explain why on first bite randomness a bandwagon is a good idea of you're not scumm.

Tentatively agree but I’ll wait to see more before judging

[Rannygazoo]

If that's a serious question about gameplay/strategy, the answer is bandwagonning on Day 1 is a good way to get information. For instance:

Thanks for the analysis. I'm more interested in what OutWorldER has to say. Would you say that the vote was specifically to put pressure on a low-effort player?

what is this about?

Here it is: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12225063
Titus was making trolly posts and I voted her to try to make her stop and act helpful. It turns out she was VT (who everyone else was townreading and more familiar with, so she never had to worry) and I was innocent child (which I could reveal at any time, so I never had to worry).

[Rannygazoo]

If that's a serious question about gameplay/strategy, the answer is bandwagonning on Day 1 is a good way to get information. For instance:

Thanks for the analysis. I'm more interested in what OutWorldER has to say.

charming

No disrespect. I'm just going to follow up on the lead, even if you don't think I need to.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm happy for you to do whatever you choose. But I like to give my 2 cents.

I didn't mean to discourage you. Sorry if I gave you that impression.

[Rannygazoo]

IIRC she did a similar trolly maneuver in Mini Theme 2172

you think Titus moving her random vote on page 1 is a "trolly maneuver"?

I'm just saying, it made me feel "where have I seen this before" and then "oh no, I'm not falling for that again".

@Titus: sounds like you have really high standards for RVS

[Rannygazoo]

Let’s generate some noise from which we will derive associations or motives
VOTE: Non Imh

He says this, yet his vote does nothing to further creating associations or motives by not joining any other wagon.

This is really interesting. Ben thinks it's scummy to bandwagon on page 1. Titus thinks it's scummy NOT to.

The way I see it, a random vote on a new wagon is kind of the "default" thing. From scum's perspective, it might be a good thing to do in order to stay unnoticed. But bandwagonning is probably better because it puts pressure on [anyone else but them].

From town's perspective, there's a lot more freedom in choosing what to do, because I know I'm not going to solve the game on page 1. I just need to see content and hopefully it will make sense in retrospect.

[Rannygazoo]

I think Titus is town. But I am rarely listened to day 1.

Whose fault is that?

[Rannygazoo]

@Titus #41 isn’t the smoking gun you want to claim it is. Maybe you think from our last game that I’m defensive and skittish, and I’ll trip over myself for an easy mis-elim with enough pressure. I’m inclined to think Ben sized you up correctly. Maybe you’re scum trying to deviate from your meta because you don’t think you can replicate it as scum, or maybe you’re town genuinely frustrated about lashing out because of early night kills.

I have time to decide. UNVOTE:

I wonder what it looks like when Titus plays to win instead of playing to have reason not to be killed night 1?

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: superbowl9

[Rannygazoo]

Could anyone stop you at this point?

[Rannygazoo]

I didn’t except a half claim like that. Galaxy brain strats

[Rannygazoo]

Yea, the way Titus is acting, to me, is in a way I'd feel comfortable voting her out of it came down to it.

But it's also brash, and scum may see it as a threat if she is in fact town, this targeting her at night.

Unless, she's scum and isn't worried about a night kill.
If that makes sense.

This is a mistake. Titus is acting exactly how you want Town to play. By taking stances and pushing, she’s making herself easier to sort.

Hello all. I am new to most of you, and frankly, not particularly good, but I have my moments. I’ll do my best to help.

Can you clarify what you mean by making herself easier to sort? Do you just mean she's acting towny to you, or do you think that acting like this helps reveal her true alignment no matter what it is?

[Rannygazoo]

@Ranny, 41 isn't a smoking gun, but it sure is scum indicative. Scum like to focus on theory.

I understand the sentiment here. Scum wants to post fluff rather than stick their neck out on fake reads. Try to put my posts in context, though. There was a debate about whether it's better in RVS to join old wagons and start new ones. I'm less experienced than you and it helps me to talk these things through, so I can decide, for instance, if ben really believed his wagon was suspicious or if it was a misdirection, or maybe just OMGUS. Other people have said it's consistent with his play, but I kind of think a player with a join date of 2007 should have these things figured out.

Your 41 focused all on RVS theory rather than making a conclusion on a read. Even now, you waffle on your stance on me. Are you lock scum? No. Are you the biggest suspect? Yes.

Come on. I said you're acting outside of your meta either because that's how you want to play scum or because you're a frustrated townie. Titus, I don't actually know what alignment you got in your role pm because I'm not part of the informed minority, so I would thank you not to pretend like I should be able to sort you already. If that's waffling, so is saying that I'm scummy but not lock scum.

[Rannygazoo]

@Flavor leaf do you want to finish your claim? Were you just waiting for someone to ask you? If you have a good reason for leaving your claim at "negative utility TBA", by all means do so, but I was told that site meta is that negative utility roles claim day 1.

[Rannygazoo]

My strongest scumread right now is superbowl9. Of his 7 posts, only the first 2 are actual content (if you count RVS as content), and the rest are just clowning around and skating by. 114 is an awful vote, and bandwaggoning like this is scum-indicative in my experience. There's also this:

Wait a minute, YOU were in that game.

FOS: Superbowl9

Why would you forget something like this unless you're trying to be deceptive about alignments?

[Rannygazoo]

I.don't know but lying is always suspicious.

You mean superbowl9 forgetting when Titus was scum? That's a weird thing to lie about. I feel it's more like he didn't want to think about it. Like, "I'm not really thinking too hard about when you were scum, so maybe you won't really think too hard about me being scum either."

[Rannygazoo]

Let's suppose I am just any other player. Who do you think is buddying me? What standard do you use? Would it change based on if I was right or wrong on Ranny?

Since we’re doing hypotheticals, I’ve got one for you: you say your current play is because you’re frustrated with getting night killed with a different play style. How do you think scum!titus would be playing, that’s different from what you’re doing now?

[Rannygazoo]

@ranny why are you pushing up superbowl and ignoring NPOM completely? I'd argue NPOM's posting is even more devoid of content than superbowl?

Interesting that you lump those two together. For me, it’s alchemist and superbowl9 who are most similar. But alchemist is just null to me. They’re not contributing, but they’re not contributing first. Then superbowl9 sees that they can get away with a content-free playstyle and follows suit.

My last game was with NPOM, and I pushed him there, and it was a useless experience. I’m watching him, and I have my own things to look for.

[Rannygazoo]

Acting more certain than I am isn’t really my style

[Rannygazoo]

this is a completely different vibe than my previous game.

I haven’t been in many games so I’d like to hear more about this. Maybe postgame if you think it’s irrelevant

[Rannygazoo]

Scum!Titus is more protective in her aggression, when she is agressive at all. Scum!Titus prefers to kill with kindness, since kind people, usually, get more credibility day one.

I see. It’s moot because town!titus acts differently too. I guess that means you’re neutral.

I’m still with Ben on this one. Playing hard and fast does help form wagons, but if it gets results for town, won’t you then be a target? Playing in a way to intentionally avoid night kills could just be scum trying to have an excuse for surviving at night.

[Rannygazoo]

I’m starting to lean more town on Titus because this scumhunting feels genuine. Like, not just for appearances sake.

@Flavor leaf: the first rule in your scum guide is to take action. How would you rate Titus’s performance as scum?

[Rannygazoo]

So Ranny ben and superbowl contains at least one scum, with sb being the least likely.

How are you ruling out TvT? I accused superbowl9, not the other way around. Me being town doesn’t mean my reads are good.

[Rannygazoo]

I think I quoted the wrong thing but whatever

[Rannygazoo]

There won’t be an elim with 12 days left. At least let wyvern post.

I’d like to see a vote or read from NPOM that isn’t sheeping.

[Rannygazoo]

I think FL was implying he would self-hammer, but that’s clearly not happening

Honestly it would never happen if it was announced that the E-1 vote was just a test. And anyone else who hammers this early in the day would be lock scum.

[Rannygazoo]

If you think Ben is scum, you can take time an deliberate before hammering. There’s no excuse not to. If Ben flips red, it’s scum trying to end the day early so no one else gets implicated like you said, plus bussing for town cred.

[Rannygazoo]

I for one am not going to pretend that this is okay. VOTE: OutworldER

FOS FL for saying yesterday that quickhammering makes one locktown

[Rannygazoo]

Look at his ISO. His reads are even more inconsistent than superbowl9’s. He goes from townreading Ben to quickhammering him in TWO POSTS. And for what?

[Rannygazoo]

And anyone else who hammers this early in the day would be lock scum.

you wanna fuckin bet

VOTE: Benhalkum

This is a gambit, but the gambit has nothing to do with ben and everything to do with how ER is read after the flip. The motivation here is backwards. Town should try to flip scum first and worry about how they how they're read second, while scum does it the other way around.

my post is memey but I had to do a big think and reread for that.

then I realized ben was bamboozling me. get the fuck outta here with that.

Uh huh. The trying to explain it away comes during twilight.

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

Already trying to minimize the impact when ben flips town.

[Rannygazoo]

Superbowl9 has no such explanation and might be buddying you in fact.

Where? I missed this.

BTW congrats on surviving to day 2.

[Rannygazoo]

Oh, it doesn't count as buddying if I'm right

[Rannygazoo]

No, I’m being facetious

Normally I’m wary of buddying and that didn’t ping me though. Not that I need it to scumread sb9

[Rannygazoo]

Just to be clear, I don’t think SvS for superbowl9 vs outworldER is impossible

But I’m playing to win, not to punish bad play

[Rannygazoo]

What to make of wiyvern ignoring this game? I checked and he’s active in another current game.

[Rannygazoo]

Ranny’s a bit weird. I’ve never played with them before. I remember slightly town reading them for the half claim surprise thing

Help me interpret this as an authentic read. What’s towny about being surprised that you would start a claim and not finish it?

[Rannygazoo]

I mean, I am town and maybe I should just be happy that you’re getting there one way or another, but I don’t get it.

[Rannygazoo]

I’m not thinking 5 moves ahead like that. I’m just trying to figure out if you actually believe your reads, or if you just have to make it look like it because you already know who the scum team is.

[Rannygazoo]

Whoa, I forgot hessian was even in the game. Night 1 came and went during the V/LA.

Titus, wyvern was in Mini 2172 with us, remember? 6 posts and 0 impact on the game before replacing out of that cursed Town Hero slot. I do get the sense there’s scum now in {hessian, wyvern} but I don’t know if I can really rank one as scummier than the other.

[Rannygazoo]

Wtf is townbeard

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: nopoweroverme for taunting town

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: wiyvern

Lol why he’s not going to see it

[Rannygazoo]

Intent to vote superbowl9. I don’t want another quickhammer before prods go out. UNVOTE:

I feel pretty good about superbowl9 and then NPOM being scum. FL’s “I’m too amazing to be scum” pings me, but it may not actually mean that his role PM was red, just like ER’s anti-town play may not actually mean he’s not town.

One of Hessian or wyvern is likely also on the team. We’ll never figure out until they start posting or get replaced!

[Rannygazoo]

@Ranny, SB is at 2 votes.

I wasn’t on Ben’s wagon, but if voter #3 hadn’t been on it, it might have played out differently and we might not have eliminated a PR.

[Rannygazoo]

I don’t feel like enough has been said about why Andres was nightkilled.

The fact that it was him, relatively inactive, and not someone driving the game hints that 1) his few posts were right, and 2) there’s a more experienced player on the scum team. The only real scumread he had was superbowl9. I know it’s WIFOM, but when I read a finished game and look at the mafia chat and why they chose their targets, usually the good wine is firmly in front of me.

[Rannygazoo]

I feel like anytime someone says "experienced scumteam"

it's just their way of trying to shade Titus or Myself without specifically saying it.

I haven’t checked everyone’s game history but that does seem to be the consensus. Maybe there’s someone else I should be looking out for.

[Rannygazoo]

I don’t know the neighbor mechanic. Can’t scum be a neighbor?

[Rannygazoo]

It just seems a wierd claim on surface level since your neighbor is the only one night killed so far. Not saying it's not true.

Bro I just don’t get how you think. If it’s not true, what is the alternative that you think is more likely to be true?

[Rannygazoo]

No one else died between then and now, so the fact that no one is counterclaiming means the claim must be true.

If someone counterclaims, that’s great, because it means scum is taking an unnecessary risk.

[Rannygazoo]

Yeah, I mean how dare I question the idea of likely the only role that has the ability of having verbal confirmation the confirmer is dead? I already said you're probably being truthful by probability why are you overreacting?

There are two ways to prove it: have andres confirm it, or have everyone else confirm that they weren’t neighborized.

Everyone is letting the claim stand instead of counterclaiming, so what else do you want?

[Rannygazoo]

im seriously regretting this massclaim, what a load of shit

If it’s any consolation, I think you’re a lovely chap

[Rannygazoo]

We only have 3 posts to go on, but I don’t really see it as non-genuine. Non said they didn’t get something, looked back to try and understand it, and wound up with more questions.

[Rannygazoo]

I’ll park my vote and move it if the wagon gets too high too early. VOTE: superbowl9

[Rannygazoo]

I didn’t vote before because I didn’t want to contribute to another quickhammer. If you’re think of moving the wagon, there’s no harm.

[Rannygazoo]

Good but also sigh UNVOTE:

At least two slots haven’t posted all day. (Im not counting wyvern as having posted). Let’s not end the day yet.

[Rannygazoo]

There you go again. I think you're the only player here who thinks I'm "desperate to be elimmed." or what I say is "baffling".

Raised hand emoji

Anyway, I’m tired of keeping up with this and want to hammer sb9 but I’ll wait for the prods or replacements to go through.

[Rannygazoo]

Non lmh, wiyvern, and hessian have 0 days, 15 hours, 19 minutes to post substansive content before I begin to search for a replacement.

Surely hessian is ok by now

[Rannygazoo]

@BM: the scummy day 1, the night kill on his wagon, and the push for a PL when there are better thing to do all add up to a pretty solid case against sb9.

It seems like you’re scumreading hessian because she was V/LA over a major regional holiday? I don’t see a real case here.

I agree with you about NPOM, although I’m not willing to put him in my town reads. It kind of feels like he’s playing a different game than the rest of us.

[Rannygazoo]

Not buying it. I still think there’s a decent probability of scum being in {hessian, wyvern} but we have more obvious scum we can eliminate today.

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: superbowl9
I’m not thrilled about letting inactives ride along, but if it takes a day end keep active players from getting bored, let’s do it and fix the other slots later. That’s E-2 or E-1 or whatever. I have no idea.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm townreading BM because he's mirroring my thoughts in a way that seems natural.

I expressed the same sentiment about day end as town in Mini Theme 2172 and got pilloried for it. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12222345 Might be interesting to go back now and look at who was scum on my wagon in that game.

[Rannygazoo]

Welcome JF. I was hoping for a solve more satisfying than “this feels right due to personal meta”, but to each their own.

[Rannygazoo]

Welcome MathBlade. Fine, if we’re going to discuss this, let’s get off E-1. UNVOTE: (Looking at you, OutWorldER)

So you think Andres was the night kill to lock in his town read of titus? I was thinking it was to make his scum read of sb9 go away.

[Rannygazoo]

Well, Titus could have been the kill going into n1. Asking not to be killed creates WIFOM that scum might just take to simplify things. If I had to pick someone for a night action and I wanted them to survive, I might not have gone with Titus. I didn’t think about it too hard because it was out of my hands, but this is another thing that points to sb9 as scum.

[Rannygazoo]

Challenge accepted VOTE: Titus

[Rannygazoo]

My opening was awesome. Sorry if my accurate assessment of the game state (nothing behind up and noise ahead of us) was jarring. I’m starting to think MathBlade has the right idea, in that replacing into the middle is better than joining and participating in RVS.

[Rannygazoo]

Sb9 is the Occam’s razor elim. He’s not giving us reads because he knows he’s caught and he doesn’t want to give us ammo to find the rest of his team.

@Titus why the sudden shift from surviving and solving to the pursuit of happiness? How does voting me help with that end?

[Rannygazoo]

Titus’s reaction expecting two kills instead of one means SK and scum probably have a doc to prevent SK or vig kill

Whoa wait what? When did Titus say that?

I thought mini normal games are never multiball. There can’t be an SK.

[Rannygazoo]

The wiki says normal games with 13 players have exactly 1 non-town faction.

[Rannygazoo]

I hope Alchemist and hessian are enjoying this

[Rannygazoo]

Why would someone replace out of a mason slot like that?

This is NAI. Non replaced out of 2 games at once.

[Rannygazoo]

Discussion is nice but worry paranoia will derail town.

I think it’s E-2. Let me double check and then I’ll reset my vote.

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: Superbowl9

[Rannygazoo]

@FL if you had to guess, what power does scum have?

[Rannygazoo]

It’s mod-confirmed that town has RB and neighborizer. Given that town has masons, that leaves scum with ??? to balance it out? What, if not fruit vendor? I can think of a bunch of roles that don’t make sense in this setup. Cop, bulletproof...

[Rannygazoo]

Yes, sb9 gave fruit to titus

@BM hammer already

[Rannygazoo]

Thank h*eck

[Rannygazoo]

Can I get a list of all claims please I'm getting confused.

No we can do that tomorrow, none of the current claims were necessary

outrageous. we shoulda just massclaimed but w/e

We’re doing that first thing tomorrow. Get your thinking caps on for your fake claims.

[Rannygazoo]

Oh I forgot about my buddy alchemist sorry man but u definitely scum here

Alchemist, is this true? No lying.

[Rannygazoo]

@tgp you missed #1097 it seems

[Rannygazoo]

No nevermind my bad

[Rannygazoo]

Let’s generate some noise from which we will derive associations or motives
VOTE: Non Imh

From town's perspective, there's a lot more freedom in choosing what to do, because I know I'm not going to solve the game on page 1. I just need to see content and hopefully it will make sense in retrospect.

DO YOU SEE THE PATTERNS IN THE NOISE NOW? DO YOU?

[Rannygazoo]

Masons AND Neighbors?

Mason is one of those claims that you don't really have to investigate until it gets much later into the game. It's most likely self-resolving. If we get to like 8p left, the mason should claim. (8p is arbitrary number)

Can we get an agreement that no one will suicide anymore? It's frustrating to lose people like that.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the consensus is against Mathblade at this point. I'm not sure but at the same point if Math's right that's two people who are hard aligned with each other. I also disagree with crumbing a mason partner in general. TLDR, I think there's better places to look, but I wouldn't run it past Math.

Double moonlogic, Math and Flavor are S v S. Given how hard I TR Flavor, I doubt this is a thing. It would depend on Math scum first to even be entertained.

Titus, explain yourself.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm not going to engage with FL except to VOTE: Flavor Leaf but I pose this question to everyone else: If mathblade and I are scum, whose idea was it to fake mason? Mine or Non Ihm's? Because we crumbed day 1 and that wouldn't be my style as scum. I'd want to keep myself open for different claims because I wouldn't know how to commit to a fake claim so early.

[Rannygazoo]

@NPOM why did you say no claim if you already claimed VT?

[Rannygazoo]

Why did you want Outer to claim first?

[Rannygazoo]

He already claimed vanilla.

[Rannygazoo]

Well then that solves that

So, to be clear, you checked outer without knowing that he already claimed vt.

Why did you check him, then?

[Rannygazoo]

OK OK I got him confused with BM

Ignore everything I said

[Rannygazoo]

save

sort*

[Rannygazoo]

@Alchemist stop lurking and tell us your solve.

[Rannygazoo]

Alright. I'm still confused why he said I claimed VT when I never did but okay.

Got you confused with BM. He claimed vt when he claimed neighborized. That’s what I was thinking of.

[Rannygazoo]

What does indecisive mean? Is it an actual modifier or are you just describing your own play?

[Rannygazoo]

Ngl we’re seeing a lot of power and it’s easier for me to believe that two out of three of {FL, NPOM, Outer} are lying.

[Rannygazoo]

If you and Ranny are scum that means there are no masons

Obviously.

You’re not saying whether or not you believe us because you don’t want to be tied down to having an opinion, is that right?

[Rannygazoo]

Ok, we’re resolving NPOM vs Outer today but for now I’m VOTE: no elim. Get in here and claim.

[Rannygazoo]

What MathBlade said. Best scum can do is miselim one of us and then shoot the other, and that’s not happening. You’ll have to spend a day with one of us mechanically confirmed, unless you intend to bring us to endgame.

[Rannygazoo]

Why shouldn’t he?

[Rannygazoo]

FL, what’s your super serious no-take-backs claim

[Rannygazoo]

@NPOM why did you say you were VT first?

[Rannygazoo]

This makes it look like you’re just looking for any reason to push FL.

Alchemist, why have you been chainsaw defending FL since forever?

[Rannygazoo]

@Alchemist stop lurking and tell us your solve.

Post stuff other than fervent praise of FL.

[Rannygazoo]

Has Outer taken a stance on NPOM’s claim today? Has he taken a stance the whole day? He seems pretty meek for the guy who quickhammered on a dare day 1. (Not that I was daring him, but he seemed to interpret it that way.)

[Rannygazoo]

Outer’s unvote means he townread me. Which means by default he should have been on me. It’s the day play in combo with that that’s so bad

I noticed that too. Outer is acting like he knows you’re town but he refused to back it up when I pressed him.

[Rannygazoo]

SB9 LITERALLY claimed scum

[Rannygazoo]

I think this discussion is good. It feels like we’ll get there.

[Rannygazoo]

If NPOM is scum role cop, I have no idea who the others are. Maybe NPOM agreed to be bussed by FL last night.

[Rannygazoo]

Also, Outer has never once stated they thought you were scum, why is it scummy of them to UNVOTE a mason?

You guys are actively misconstruing things.

I still think this is a great reason for the masons to get faded within them, but I digress.

And I’ll say again that this is exactly what scum needs. You have to fade one and shoot the other in the same day/night or else you’re stuck with us.

[Rannygazoo]

Am I wrong though?

[Rannygazoo]

I disagree, BG's should think about night kills not PR's. they can go hand in hand, they don't have to.

But Outer claimed he didn’t do either? He just alternated between experienced players.

[Rannygazoo]

Today I learned there’s an Animaniacs 2020

[Rannygazoo]

@FL why did you push MathBlade day 2 until he said who the other mason is?

[Rannygazoo]

If someone is claiming mason, of course there’s going to be a second. Your pushing and letting up when he completed the claim doesn’t make sense. Were you thinking his half claim might be fake because yours was?

I don’t care whether he claimed or whether you figured it out. You changed your vote once you knew I was the other mason. Is it because you found it believable?

I pushed through SB9’s elim because there was no other possibility ONCE HE CLAIMED SCUM

[Rannygazoo]

I’m trying not to tunnel, but complaining about it probably won’t help me townread you.

[Rannygazoo]

I’m not going down.

You’re masons with Ranny.

Interesting.

VOTE: NPOM

What I needed to hear.

I’m in mobile so h*eck you for making me find this.

You pushed until I was revealed and then you gave up. Why?

[Rannygazoo]

Superbowl9 had wishes?

The thing that sets NPOM apart as town to me is that it neatly gives us Outer and FL as scum opposing him. I’m not happy about have to choose between liars and quickhammerers and a bunch of anti-town players in general but that’s where we are.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm fine with being elimmed tomorrow if OutWorldER flips town.

What does this mean? Is it a scum claim? Two more miselims and scum wins.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm fine with being elimmed tomorrow if OutWorldER flips town.

What does this mean? Is it a scum claim? Two more miselims and scum wins.

lol come on Ranny, it's fairly obvious what it means.

It means you’re scum or you’re willing to give the game to scum if it doesn’t go your way.

[Rannygazoo]

The thing is, I really don’t trust Outer, and when Math or I die, they can easily just say they were body guarding the other one.

[Rannygazoo]

I want to elim every single one of you except for mathblade

[Rannygazoo]

@NPOM do you believe BM’s doctor claim?

[Rannygazoo]

guilty

I just find it weird that pr!outer is a “soft guilty” but pr!BM isn’t.

[Rannygazoo]

Did I just fail a charisma roll?

[Rannygazoo]

Ok, didn’t mean to derail the thread.

I've been scumreading leaf and ow since ow hammered and leaf called himlocktown

What if it’s possible it’s just BM and you and Outer are both town?

NPOM, can you imagine a world where BM is scum and Outer is town? Would that mean FL has to be town too?

[Rannygazoo]

I figure it's obvious to scum that I'm a PR at this point anyway so I'll do my proper claim.

Hey BM why do you think this would be obvious to scum or to anyone? I didn’t see where you crumbed it.

[Rannygazoo]

Blade Dancer = Titus?

[Rannygazoo]

I figure it's obvious to scum that I'm a PR at this point anyway so I'll do my proper claim.

Hey BM why do you think this would be obvious to scum or to anyone? I didn’t see where you crumbed it.

lol! maybe ask Flavor Leaf or Titus since they both picked up on it. i was hinting at it for numerous posts today, after I figured there was a risk we wouldn't elim OWER unless I gave a bit more help.

So you started crumbing it day 3?

[Rannygazoo]

Can you please not give up like Ben and superbowl? I’m trying to figure something out and MathBlade is trying to help me out. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at me.

[Rannygazoo]

What FL knows but seems to find inconvenient is that a mason dying at night would essentially be Good For Town as then we have a mechanically confirmed townie on the next day.

[Rannygazoo]

every

[Rannygazoo]

I’m good at internet

Why does every flavor leaf game have to end up being all about Flavor Leaf?

[Rannygazoo]

Is your goal to win to see how much bragging you can get off before you’re removed?

[Rannygazoo]

BM, maybe chill and wait for what no elim has to say? Sounds like a false consensus to me.

[Rannygazoo]

We’re not letting no elim catch up because why?

[Rannygazoo]

Something’s not adding up here. NPOM can’t be town power because he didn’t put himself at E-2.

Pedit yeah, I’m asking specifically why Titus ended the day before no elim could catch up.

[Rannygazoo]

Hey so is someone going to tell the protective claims what to do?

[Rannygazoo]

We’ll see if there are 4 scum on the wagon and this is game over.

[Rannygazoo]

Got it. Flavor Leaf. Town. Facts.

[Rannygazoo]

Hey FL, tell us whether or not you’re town

[Rannygazoo]

I don't necessarily think you kill Mathblade over Ranny unless the team is Titus/Battle Mage.

I do have thoughts on this as well, but I am deliberately sitting on them right now.

Keep sitting. We're going with your option 2. Math and I solved the game last night and now I get to share. Hold on to your knickers.

I'll give you the short version. Math worked at it from the angle of who was scum, and I approached it trying to decide which of you three are town.

No elim is town. Scum is doing too well for an inactive slot to be scum. I'm staking the game on this. If they're scum, ggwp to other two; you deserve the win.

BM is town. They were doing everything right until they got flustered by Math calling them out on saying "BM".

There's one I'm not sure about. So let's look at it from the other end.

Of course Outer's got to be scum. He plays recklessly day 1, admonishing ben and saying that at worst we're flipping VT, but then he claims PR who played just as recklessly? And now he failed to defend is target. Is he going to say he didn't want to protect Math, or is he going to say he was roleblocked? Place your bets.

FL is scum for pushing a scum agenda. Trying to get rid of the masons in a one-two punch, and keeping the focus on NPOM and off his buddy Outer. Of course scum needed the nea gone. Judging from how FL called everyone's claim changing, scum likely have a role cop. A pt cop too, because that makes perfect sense with masons and a neighborizer, right? (This just cements scum!FL. Remember when he was flustered about Andres having a pt all to himself night 1?) They couldn't have NPOM catching them in lies.

So that leaves Alch and Titus. The funny thing is, they both look pocketed by FL. I think I'll let MathBlade explain. He left some notes in the mason pt.

[Rannygazoo]

Spoiler: MathBlade’s Last Wish

Hey y’all. If you’re seeing this I am deader than a door nail so this is my sort of last will post. I have told Ranny to do something that’s against typical site meta in order for us to have a better chance at winning so if this goes to shit yell at me not him since he’s new. The scum team is FL+Outer+Titus/Alch. I firmly 100% believe it is Titus here and Ranny had some doubts it is Alch. So Ranny is going to immediately vote someone in that four and we’re going to go forward from there. The reason I asked him immediately vote someone rather than traditional fake voting elo is because Titus and Flavor Leaf are both charismatic scum and by voting they can’t talk their way out of it and I don’t have to guess every single angle they could take before today to coach Ranny on. The easiest way to ensure a scum elim is to force it since can’t cross vote a confirmed mason. Since Ranny won’t move his vote scum have to bus. It limits info but it’s imho the right play because then whoever is left of Titus/Flavor Leaf has to argue they were in the pocket of the other. This flies in the face of the evidence and facts though.

Day One VCA — Day One was cut incredibly incredibly short. That is not normal. Also due to how final votes were split a scum is confirmed on the Ben wagon. All votes D1 were on confirmed town except for Titus. For Titus to be town this would be a scum “perfect” day. Meaning not a single vote captured in a votecount was on scum. Titus who has not done a VCA all game (hallmark scum tell 85% accurate made up stat but hella high) is likely scum. This means no elim is probably town based upon hammer at the end of the day yesterday. Titus and crew didn’t want no elim coming on and hammering Outer. This means Titus and outer are a team. FL connects to this based on NPOM’s voting pattern. NPOM instantly out the gate votes FL. FL mentions Titus’s skill with wagonomics in 365. Literally every assumption in that post is false. Like confirmably so. Even if you assume hessian and(no elim) and Battle Mage are scum that forces minimum one scum. And for prior reasons scum perfect days are like unicorns. They don’t exist. So two scum minimum on the wagon. 364 FL calls that out as a weird play to make if scum. No it fucking isn’t because if Titus is scum she and her partners make a vested interest to kill off anyone who does VCA. FL even tries to make the Outer hammer look better (it doesn’t). Alch is the other scum IF Titus is so far pocketed she can’t see light. This is based on 299 (reaction to Ben’s hammer) and chainsaw of FL. Much more likely he just trusted FL and was pocketed.

Day 2 VCA — At this point Titus FL Outer should be deep in your mind here.
Outworlder chainsaw defends FL. The scum team REALLY want NPOM gone. They have probably checked NPOM here and didn’t want them to get a check off. Now combine that with Titus’s reads list. Dimes to donuts she already knew we were masons at that point. Her wish list was Super Bowl (who town wanted to miselim) and both masons. Masons are her specific weakness. (More on this later.) Titus then susses Super Bowl for his “policy” on Outer. Something can be jarring but true. This is typical Titus manipulation. Tell the truth in a way that makes you act bad. The policy elim is jarring. But it’s accurate.

I replace in. Now we look back at Titus’s scum reads. Titus and company have a role cop and a PT cop. That’s why Titus sussed me and Ranny’s slots. She probably already figured out one or the other of us were masons. (Probably me) and then FL pushed pretending not to believe it to get the other slot to out. This frees up PT cop player to do kills based on Andres death. The reason I say frees up is because without explicitly being a modifier it is not normal to multitask.

Day three was a pretty simple explanation. Titus and co needed two town on NPOM to miselim them. They needed them gone because sus of FL. They’re literally putting all their eggs into that. Me slow rolling it like elo was annoying as shit to them. They wanted me on that sus wagon. Apologies to BM Titus and FL’s suggestions were really poisoning my mind there. I am thankfully Ranny keeps setting me straight. With both masons off, it becomes clear at least two scum were on it unless you believe no elim + Battle Mage. This exact same problem from D1. Does this shock anyone as to why Titus hasn’t done VCA yet?

Titus also completely goes against protocol in slowing things down and listening to masons and actually having discussions. Instead she and FL chose to keep control. FL needed Johnny Farrah dead and needs us not listened to just enough. Any attempt to sus FL townread NPOM or even express doubt gets buried in hyperposts. Suggesting slowing the game down is bad.

At the end there, when I supeonaed (sp?) Titus I expected her to talk with me about a FL+Battle Mage coaching. Town her would be excited about that. Instead she instant hammers instead of working with town causing a shit show. At the end, I started spamming the shit out of questions to them because I was pretty sure one of them was scum.

Note how FL immediately turns on Alch here. And FL is explicitly non bus. He didn’t have time to come up with a reaction for a buddy here. He hates being thrown off his game. He freaking hates it. This means Alch is more likely than not Town here. Notice how he says I didn’t push FL in Titus’s pocket. This is a blatant lie. I was pushing one in the pocket of the other all day. Then comes to his last caveats one of Outer/BM. He phrases it in this way because he expects me to pick BM here. He’s telling the truth. Notice the common theme. Telling the truth in a way that manipulates you. And one of Titus/no elim. Again true. FL didn’t have time to come up with a spin story. Notice at the end how he says it could be Alch+masons. He didn’t say claims.

Scum knew EXACTLY what they were doing this game. They kill Johnny over us to get an NPOM wagon. They kill Andres because his last post sussed Titus. Scum couldn’t have that come up.

The answer is Titus+FL+Outer and just fucking run it y’all. Vote vote vote with the fury of a thousand suns.

[Rannygazoo]

Reluctant as I am to call Alch town, the evidence of scum!Titus is abundant.

Flavor, which do you think is scum?

This is now how you talk to someone who drove the wagon that put us on elo. Nor is it contrition of someone who hammered town before the day was really over.

Honestly, Titus isn't as obviously scum as the other two, but if I do this, there's no talking out of it. So here we go. The die is cast. VOTE: Titus

[Rannygazoo]

FL, no one has any feelings about you being scum. It's just luck you got the PM you did.

The solve is Titus/FL/Outer. Remember it for when they kill me tomorrow.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm not changing my vote. You can join me or vote me.

[Rannygazoo]

Nope. You can do it tomorrow.

[Rannygazoo]

I wonder how scum is feeling now. Maybe relieved I got it wrong. Probably gearing up for talking town out of mopping up tomorrow.

[Rannygazoo]

Hey, if you want to put me on E-2, I'll self-vote. NPOM may have broken tradition but I believe in the old ways.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm interested to see if MathBlade's theory about "perfect days" is right. Your theory is that scum got perfect days on day 1 AND day 2?

[Rannygazoo]

I mean the day ends with no one voting scum. I haven't crunched data but it does seem unlikely, especially day 1. I'm opening finished mini normals just for anecdotal evidence and I'm not finding one.

[Rannygazoo]

It's in MathBlade's spoilered last wish.

[Rannygazoo]

I didn't know you were siblings until he said so in the PT. That's crazy.

@FL thanks for looking out for me. I asked TGP about it to make sure.

[Rannygazoo]

The consensus was it's fine as long as I don't use the quote function. Maybe it's mod-dependent.

[Rannygazoo]

Nah, I've seen it in other private topics when I look at other finished games.

[Rannygazoo]

Even day 3, you were saying we should elim with the masons.

You should have considered breaking your non-bussing meta. The way you and Titus forced the elim to be NPOM was a little too much.

[Rannygazoo]

Heck

[Rannygazoo]

Alright gg

[Rannygazoo]

Should have lined up elims on FL and Outer and then trusted BM and no elim to solve. But I did what I thought gave town the best odds at winning, even though it put the risk first.

[Rannygazoo]

Yes, I’m fine with releasing the mason pt now.

[Rannygazoo]

Yes, I’m fine with releasing the mason pt now.

Btw, you were awesome Ranny. It was a loss sure but please please don’t take this to heart as you having a bad game.

Thank you! And don’t blame yourself of the loss. Picking Titus to railroad was my decision. I was at least 51% sure the two of us solved it right together. Then no elim announced they’re not reading, and given that BM tended to get flighty and change wagons at the end of the day (not passing blame, just stating observations), I decided it best to take our solve and go all the way with it, rather than expecting them to solve later. I feel bad for losing but tbh I’d probably play it the same way again under the same circumstances.

[Rannygazoo]

That was me tempting outer to quickhammer, and yeah, I scumread sb9 for leaning into the policy elim that I suggested.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

How much of this was real and how much was baiting a night kill on a vt?

[Rannygazoo]

That’s what I thought about Titus’s hammer!

[Rannygazoo]

Hi mastina

[Rannygazoo]

FL and Outer were lock scum. It doesn’t matter if we did them first or last. A loss is a loss, whether there’s 1 or 3 left.

[Rannygazoo]

If you had eliminated FL and ower first you could have sorted Titus and Alch better.

Day 3, that would have been awesome if we could have done that instead of focusing on you vs Outer. But we didn’t have the votes to do it, especially with no elim not voting (or more accurately, Titus ending the day before no elim caught up).

Day 4, I trusted myself and MathBlade over the remaining townies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯