Mini Normal 2179 | ENDGAME

[OutWorldER]

let's get this wagon rollin nice and early

VOTE: benhalkum

[OutWorldER]

So, three votes on me "randomly" huh? Well, know where to start looking .

Explain why on first bite randomness a bandwagon is a good idea of you're not scumm.

random bandwagon early helps solve the guy being wagoned and generates discussion?

especially helpful since this is a really bad reaction

[OutWorldER]

So, three votes on me "randomly" huh? Well, know where to start looking .

Explain why on first bite randomness a bandwagon is a good idea of you're not scumm.

random bandwagon early helps solve the guy being wagoned and generates discussion?

especially helpful since this is a really bad reaction

i mean, it's a ben reaction - this is exactly what he did as town in the last game all 3 of us were in together. However it did also help cost town the game, so.

i don't really recall that from o799, I mostly just recall ben being inactive

[OutWorldER]

UNVOTE:

I thought 59 and 87 were scummy at first but I reread and I can actually see the viewpoint now, it just took me a minute.

i have a couple places I'd want to go for votes but first:

@ranny

why are you pushing up superbowl and ignoring NPOM completely? I'd argue NPOM's posting is even more devoid of content than superbowl?

@alchemist

you stated impressions on BM and Titus, what's your impression on ranny, the guy you're currently voting?

[OutWorldER]

UNVOTE:

I thought 59 and 87 were scummy at first but I reread and I can actually see the viewpoint now, it just took me a minute.

i have a couple places I'd want to go for votes but first:

@ranny

why are you pushing up superbowl and ignoring NPOM completely? I'd argue NPOM's posting is even more devoid of content than superbowl?

@alchemist

you stated impressions on BM and Titus, what's your impression on ranny, the guy you're currently voting?

Yes, but you voted for me in 10, as I believe, a random vote. (Although second or third in a random bandwagon).

So... you vote for me randomly, which is fine. But your justification for unvoting for me now, points back at much later post you believed were scummy but now aren't? All the while, you're pointing at someone else, Ranny, who currently has a bandwagon going on them.

Feels a bit off to me.

I voted for you in 10 to get a wagon going which was then justified by your reaction (which I standby was a bad reaction), afterwards I took a break for a bit, read back through the thread, and now we're here.

And I'm not pointing at Ranny? I want to engage him and Alch first before deciding anything.

[OutWorldER]

I'm feeling Ben is town here. His questioning feels like town genuinely trying to solve the slots he's engaging and his hesitance to vote feels to me more like a townie in the dark than scum. His reaction to his RVS wagon was bad but his reaction to this current one is good, still trying to solve and push even though he's being piled on.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Ranny and ben votes feel very opportunistic from this guy, and his current engagement with Ben does not feel genuine.

[OutWorldER]

I'm feeling Ben is town here. His questioning feels like town genuinely trying to solve the slots he's engaging and his hesitance to vote feels to me more like a townie in the dark than scum. His reaction to his RVS wagon was bad but his reaction to this current one is good, still trying to solve and push even though he's being piled on.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Ranny and ben votes feel very opportunistic from this guy, and his current engagement with Ben does not feel genuine.

you say his current reaction was good, but I feel like he just turned on the easiest one to turn on on his wagon.

When scum basically make no effort to play the game it'll feel like they're an easy choice. This mindset is exactly what they rely on to coast by.

And like:

What's wrong with sheeping? It's not like there's a whole lot of action yet.

You want to tell me this post is pro-town?

[OutWorldER]

And anyone else who hammers this early in the day would be lock scum.

you wanna fuckin bet

VOTE: Benhalkum

[OutWorldER]

my post is memey but I had to do a big think and reread for that.

then I realized ben was bamboozling me. get the fuck outta here with that.

[OutWorldER]

it's a repeat of Open 799.

which means this is scum flip lets go baby

[OutWorldER]

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

[OutWorldER]

The only PR that would have a reason to gambit like that is Vengeful/SuperSaint and I forget if either of those are normal.

If he was gambling with a PR outside of that then he's just a real big idiot.

[OutWorldER]

time for 10 am tiredposting

leanscum on NPOM and Superbowl9. Both seem to be putting forth incredibly little effort to the game, their reads and votes (what few they've put forth) are incredibly lazy.

FL probably town. I don't think scum outright locktown's such a controversial move and I see no reason for him to pocket me. Same logic for Titus.

Want to hear more from Alch, but what little they've posted seems towny.

@Titus

have your opinions on NPOM changed from yesterday? I agree with your take on SB9 but I actually feel worse about NPOM due to the fact that he's just kind of ignoring me and the main topic of discussion to push FL. Gives me bad vibes.

[OutWorldER]

@Ranny

I want to get into your head-space a little bit. Why do you feel perceived inconsistency in reads and other such topics (I say perceived because you obviously don't have access to my own thought processes) is scum indicative?

[OutWorldER]

if OutworldER is scum, he has experienced teammates. Would probably imply at least 1 of Titus/Flavor Leaf as scum too.

Why do you think that?

he was super bombastic and confident on Day 1. I don't think he's the type to go balls-out like that, unless he was confident his team would carry the victory.

Where do you get this impression of me? In Open 799 (the game we played together) I was also rather confident in my reads/solve though I will agree I wasn't as explosive as I was at D1 EoD this game.

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

I think this is a good place to park for the time being.

[OutWorldER]

I'm going against the standard grain of thought so I a must be scum! Good thinking!

There's a rather large difference between "going against the grain" and "completely ignoring topics of discussion" and also "putting forth minimal effort to read the game or other players"

[OutWorldER]

Also it should go without saying but that reaction is awful, especially for just a single vote.

[OutWorldER]

I don't love Outworld on this page.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

I think this is a good place to park

for the time being

.

that's the sort of non-committal phrasing which i see from scum more than town. Makes the vote seem un-serious, and town shouldn't want their votes to seem un-serious, but scum might if they don't want to ruffle feathers.

if OutworldER is scum, he has experienced teammates. Would probably imply at least 1 of Titus/Flavor Leaf as scum too.

Why do you think that?

he was super bombastic and confident on Day 1. I don't think he's the type to go balls-out like that, unless he was confident his team would carry the victory.

Where do you get this impression of me? In Open 799 (the game we played together) I was also rather confident in my reads/solve though I will agree I wasn't as explosive as I was at D1 EoD this game.

I feel like you answered your own question here - you agree you played differently, so why ask something so inane as "where do you get this impression of me?" when you know we have only shared 1 game together and i've already said that's the basis of my assessment. It's a question for the sake of asking a question - more of a scum posturing move than town move.

@Ranny

I want to get into your head-space a little bit. Why do you feel perceived inconsistency in reads and other such topics (I say perceived because you obviously don't have access to my own thought processes) is scum indicative?

question to Ranny, which basically amounts to "you are voting for me, please stop that".

time for 10 am tiredposting

leanscum on NPOM and Superbowl9. Both seem to be putting forth incredibly little effort to the game, their reads and votes (what few they've put forth) are incredibly lazy.

FL probably town. I don't think scum outright locktown's such a controversial move and I see no reason for him to pocket me. Same logic for Titus.

Want to hear more from Alch, but what little they've posted seems towny.

@Titus

have your opinions on NPOM changed from yesterday? I agree with your take on SB9 but I actually feel worse about NPOM due to the fact that he's just kind of ignoring me and the main topic of discussion to push FL. Gives me bad vibes.

question to Titus which basically amounts to "please help me wagon NPOM". Also, I definitely fall in the low-effort camp, but he singles out NPOM and Superbowl only. I'm sure there are others too. Low effort doesn't mean scum though, especially in this game where scum appears to be off to a good start.

1) I said for the time being because at that time NPOM wasn't literally lockscum, and I had planned to take this day a little slower and return to my usual style. That has changed.

2) My disagreement more stemmed from your surprise since outside of being more aggressive and more memey I didn't think my play was that much different from O799.

3) Yes, I wanted Ranny to stop voting town. To do that, I wished to have a genuine conversation with him about his thought processes and how he performs his reads.

4) Yes, I was reaching out to one of my town-reads to see if we could consolidate votes on a player I don't exactly feel good about. Especially now.

Also I didn't consider you low-effort? You provided interaction and actual original thoughts of your own, which is more than I can say for SB9 and NPOM before just recently.

I can see your reasoning for suspecting me for Number 1 but I do fail to see what exactly is wrong about the last two parts.

[OutWorldER]

Flavor Leaf and OutworldER look like they could be buddies.

why?

Because they both are scummy and neither is willing to attack each other and they are avoiding talking to each other.

incredibly, people do not attack their town reads.

you should also SR titus by this dumbass logic.

this is scum flailing.

[OutWorldER]

I didn't make any mistake. I specifically said you were probably telling the truth. I don't know how many times I need to say that and why you're misrepping me.

If you were sure that he was telling the truth then why continue to set up this push on him.

I'm not saying they're mechanically related, I'm saying it's possible you're using a townie's death to validate your claim. The fact that andres can't back up your claim for you makes me second guess you. Probability indicates you are telling the truth, but it just seems like a strange string of events to me.

Are you worried I'll claim neighbor?

I seriously don't know how you can read these posts as anything but trying to discredit/setup a push on BM.

The entire premise for this line of questioning is dumb anyways since BM wouldn't have known he was neighborized until actions were resolved.

[OutWorldER]

I actually feel worse about NPOM due to the fact that he's just kind of ignoring me and the main topic of discussion to push FL. Gives me bad vibes

Napalm is ignoring an easy place to park their vote and instead going after one of the more visibly vocal and powerful players in this game and you think that's scum motivated? Unless he's dead confident (or partners with someone already voting you) i think napalm is town here

my objection is more to the fact that he ignored it almost completely (until it came time to try and discredit me) rather than the fact that he didn't vote me.

Sell me on your NPOM TR because he's my top SR right now and I just genuinely cannot understand why anybody would think that slot is town.

[OutWorldER]

Sell me on your NPOM TR

Like do you think he's posting with an agenda? I don't see it at all. Not making much sense isn't really a crime

His votes constantly seem very opportunistic? The few times he wasn't moving to big wagons, he was putting votes on slots that were somewhat contentious. Every time a wagon gained any sort of traction, he moved there, with very weak reasoning.

It feels exactly like newbscum wanting to coast by.

@MathBlade, I'll also accept you talking to me about NPOM.

[OutWorldER]

NPOM if your town you are playing this horrifically badly.

anyways hi guys, this wagon on me is dumb and Ranny is scum for trying to say I claimed when I never fuckin did?

VOTE: Rannygazoo

[OutWorldER]

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

Why do you think this? NPOM is claiming Neapolitan. If he is town then all that result means is I'm not a VT.

Like, I think NPOM is scummy all game but even I have to admit that thinking that one of is confscum is stupid.

[OutWorldER]

Fact that outer does not claim here makes him scum

Or I just don't want to out my PR to scum immediately with a contested claim?

[OutWorldER]

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

Why do you think this? NPOM is claiming Neapolitan. If he is town then all that result means is I'm not a VT.

Like, I think NPOM is scummy all game but even I have to admit that thinking that one of is confscum is stupid.

The problem with that is if you’re a PR there becomes a problem of way too much power. It depends on what you are. It has to be taken in context.

Not really?

Neighborizer is a very easy to mis-use role. Masons are strong, yes, but if NPOM is telling the truth here he's one of the weakest investigatives in the game with a role modifier that makes it even harder to use. My PR isn't anything totally good either.

Furthermore, Nea gets weaker the more PR's there are in the game. So I think there's plenty of basis to suspect that both of us could be telling the truth.

That said, considering NPOM's play today, I'm kind of doubting it. I'm looking at an NPOM/Ranny scumteam tbh.

[OutWorldER]

@Mathblade - I will HAPPILY eliminate you here. Hold up, what are you talking about?

Does anyone in this game think I would not be 100% on board and helping push it further if a Mathblade wagon was happening?

Like, I'm holding back how hard I wanna push the mason thing right now because that's just not necessary. We are creating better discussion by where we are now on someone I think is likely to be scum as well, and isn't tinfoil.

The problem is it won’t. Town you knows this.

There is a guilty on the table. Yes, I am sure you probably would be on board and push it. Ignoring the guilty for a later day just ends up pushing things down the road here. If there wasn’t a guilty to sort, you’d be correct here and we would be at each other’s throats more than likely. However it’s not the right thing.

Pedit Outworld that’s impossible Ranny is my mason buddy

I had forgotten Ranny claimed the other Mason.

Alright. I'm still confused why he said I claimed VT when I never did but okay.

There's some contention over that claim I'm aware but I think the best thing for me to solve the game right now is to elim NPOM and then figure out you two off of it.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

[OutWorldER]

There is not a guilty on the table? what?

Outer not claiming here makes them look like scum here.

I don't want to claim because we already outed a shitton of info to scum.

I'm very cagey with information as Town. If multiple people start screaming at me to claim I will but right now I don't see the point when the Nea claim is contested and it's not even any sort of guilty to begin with.

[OutWorldER]

Alright. Fine.

Indecisive Bodyguard.

I protected Titus N1 and Flavor N2. I was having trouble trying to find potential PR's that would be more valuable than me so I just protected more experienced players who I TR'd. Maybe it worked out in the end, I don't know.

Not liking leaf playing dumb

I am not playing dumb anywhere. There is not a guilty. You claimed he's Not Vanilla. How is that a guilty?

Assume NPOM and Outer are town.

Assume Ranny and I are scum incorrectly.

Balance the setup. NPOM would have to be an odd night Neo. What would Outer be? And if this was possible why hasn’t outer claimed?

If you and Ranny are scum that means there are no masons.

That leaves X-Shot Neighborizer, X-Shot Roleblocker, Fruit Vendor, my BG and the Even-Night Nea.

Neighborizer is negative utility to the already restricted Nea, and the more PR's there are the weaker it gets. This setup seems fairly balanced to me.

[OutWorldER]

Maybe it worked out in the end, I don't know.

*would've, my brain is tired.

[OutWorldER]

I can't target the same person multiple nights in a row.

[OutWorldER]

Here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Indecisive

[OutWorldER]

If you and Ranny are scum that means there are no masons

Obviously.

You’re not saying whether or not you believe us because you don’t want to be tied down to having an opinion, is that right?

I'm not sure whether to believe you, genuinely. Which is why I'm voting NPOM, not either of you.

I think if NPOM flips scum then you two are most definitely scum. I think if he flips town then your Mason claim is most likely true.

[OutWorldER]

If ower!town should not be assuming I am faking here.

Elaborate. Because you had a definitely not guilty of any sort and immediately started pushing it as such.

Outer is the biggest misfade opportunity this game had.

I always am, lmao.

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Titus

[OutWorldER]

[OutWorldER]

bro I should lolhammered Superbowl too and this would've been the perfect game

I was going to make jokes about Not_Mafia taking over my account lmao.

[OutWorldER]

GG's

first scum game on this site, I didn't really act independently but I thought I did well enough.

[OutWorldER]

also curious about Titus's thing D1, since I actually took it and read her as BP lmao

[OutWorldER]

NPOM I found it really easy to push on you because at times it felt like you just weren't paying attention to the game.

Like, you'd come in and declare nothing was happening when was there plenty of interaction going on, your weird push on BM was bad (I was amazed SB got elimmed there instead of you.) and overall you really tanked your credibility at crucial moments.