Among Us Mafia [GAME OVER]

[DkKoba]

I'm at a party but HC is definitely flipping town. Please unvote. This is LHF. Huge mistake to do this.
Also cakez wtf are u doing discussing that. I'm gonna throw up if u continue.

Taly slot prob scum. I think their lack of response is AI. As a psudeo clear yall should probably trust my pov to an extent to the point that its -prob town-.

Also if ANYONE quickhammers im going to policy u if im alive.

Remeber tho dead air, dead villager.

Also ig ill show my hand since we're at risk of a dayend without me beint able to talk anymore - my Titus townread is bullshit. I faked it to get them to do what i wanted and alignment tell. Flea forced my hand.

Sircakez, if ur voting hc pls unvote. Lets play it like betrayal maf.


Flea- your reading method is HEAVILY flawed in that impressive =/= town. Ur scumreading their playstyle. I pretended to put HC as null to get them to feel pressured to listen to me. I wanted them to towntell with good analysis.

Seriously anyone who hammers is scum claiming and needs to be policied.

Scum can sabo tasks. What else can they sabo?? Clearly doors.

Asking town to reeval and come into evalling every slot like i said with th3 exercise i suggested or at least providing their own unique case why HC is scum. Esp w bell here.

Pooky im trying to push to AI and i know that they know to pocket me to win - but like tbh i don't like their attempt to hard OT vote from scum.

Flea trying to rush vote feels bad. I know they arent the strongest scumhunter so not like putting the read against them but why rush now????

Hc Seriously i dont wanna waste a ml cause of u. Please say shit. Please read the game and post stuff to help us get your perspective. I think gamestate declares u town here. I dont think ur inherently towny but the gamestate is definitely favoring u being town here.

I think titus/pooky/blitz is my solid POE rn.

Like again. (Fuck off if u call me lamist for it) i am psudeo clear via my claim of saboed task. Trust my perspective as conftown.

Ty all.
Im pretty sure this is 300 words. Too crossfaded to care to check gonna just ramble on for another paragraph to make sure.

Mastina im comfortable locktownining oddly enough.

Hc too. Based on gamestate read.
Reck is town too imo.

Please reeval thx

[DkKoba]

I'll do intent to hammer. Sorry I forgot to log in this morning

this is extremely scummy to do upon replacing in. especially in a slot i scumread heavily im heavily pinged by u VOTE: manwithnoname


if u hammer before im able to do my trustfalls tonight or anyone can plan their actions with others etc. ur fucking hard scumclaiming, u got it? every town member better policy ur ass when this flips town. if it flips scum, sorry. still a really shitty vote tho and should be mechnically quarantined for scumminess.

pooky ur logic is bad pls. pls acutally try and give us ur PoV bc i want to TR u here.

reck i agree. HC is prob town and just a LHF wagon that lower skilled players like OWER and Flea are latched onto.
Flea is being stubborn in clearing me as town because they are being prideful in light of my claim saying they are wrong IMO.

I didnt claim my ROOM was sabotaged. i said my TASK was sabotaged. like my slot went to submit it as completed and i was told it was sabotaged by scum - which im asssuming means that it doesnt count and i have to redo it to get it done - (i prob will die tonight via the factional nightkill.)

im suggesting we CFD this vote and get someone whos actually scummy. HC isnt scummy. he just hasnt been useful. Thats not scummy. equating skill/participation with scumminess is such a noob thing. Id much rather get MWNN for basically scumclaiming for saying theyd hammer without offering any sort of anaylsis on anyone or explaining why they from their POV scumread HC. just admitting they want to get rid of a slot. scummy as shit if u ask me. if ur on the HC wagon and ur town unvote now thx.


murdercat i know u flopped over and nearly let scum run the show when u were town with me and i was nightkilled instead of fighting the bad logic that was clearly present from the slot i said that i said was prob scum if u werent scum -> please be more proactive this game.

im still not sure if its 4 scum here.

maybe 3.5 scum with 1 traitor idk!!!

also if u latch onto my last few statements and ignore the rest of my post u suck tyvm please read my imporant stuff not my tinfoil setup spec.

[DkKoba]

hey sorry i was working on trust falls over the course of this night but im super bad at staying on task. i got 3 players done. gonna try to get the rest done when i wake up. im sorry again.

MURDERCAT:
-Starts off being paranoid of people outting role info. Something town would feel paranoid of with a setup where scum power is unknown.
-The way they softed their post restriction early on in a towny way.
-Doesn’t want to rush on D1
-Is more concerned with getting scumhunt info than utilizing the mechanic of doing tasks.
-Really like their tone ngl
Want to point out murder did say “what if town just claims tasks” - yeah the sabo that was directed at me is part of that answer.
-Their reads progression so far feels organic on reread
-TONE really good. I mentioned before but i really like the tone
Lol noticed the townhunting thing from murder, poor murder townread scum who i caught in our most recent game very sad. But he figured it out in the end.
-kept voting other people before the consensus no elim as pressure.
- Bell discredited them while there was a big wagon on them
-while being voted and a probable elim he brazenly expresses a townread for bell
-is generally not caring whether or not they are elimmed
- was alone with a player in reactor and that player did not die
-was concerned with Titus’ logic for scumreading them and pushed them when they wouldn’t respond

BLITZO
-late entrance. Weird thing to point out as towny, but personally I myself am more aware of a game starting as scum. I want to make my splash early, so I plan to be around when thread starts or close to it.
-immediately got into scumhunting
-progressed a read on DGB naturally from scum to townlean? Yeah
-pushed for an elim, which feels like going against the grain which is not natural scum behavior
-interactions gun to head with bell feel like town interacting with scum
-over the course of d1 so far I see they have imperative in responding to everyone and keeping up discussion.
-voted bell d2 and also had good reasoning to back that push up

MASTINA/THEGOLDENPARADOX
-early tone is good
-claimed strict restrictions, and naturally showed reasoning that was consistent with knowing they wouldnt be able to post as well next day.
-townread a post that they classified as bad(384)
-fought with bell early
-their mech claims feel towny
-kept rooms to themselves, comes from town perspective
-case on blitzo is pretty thorough and not shallow(1495)
-is playing a game where they are being secretive with intent to hide info from scum
-(mastina replaces in here)
-very active and posting a lot of replies to people
-their analysis of my entrance is just “bad town” vibes which lines up with the rest of mastina’s iso where i generally see shallowish stuff.

FLEATHEMAGICIAN
-eager to mech solve
-nonchalant about being voted
-claimed the word count restriction task early.
-good meta read on ali(my slot)
-their case on titus feels natural
-vibing with the post restriction break to remind of pronouns, something i would do lol


also im comfortable locktowning murdercat here BTW based on what i read.

[DkKoba]

BATTLE MAGE
-lol fuck so many posts i might just post vibes by skimming hard. Already townread the slot so ..
-yielded control of game to pooky-dont think scum does this unless its to their scum partner
-on brief read their reads seem to progress naturally
-rebutted titus’ case on them pretty well
-overall logical
-hey found good info that we figure out fail/pass EoD so XD
- annoying but the push on me is based in logic considering how sloppy alisae was d2. (still maintain e was outside eir scumrange)
-the way theyre talking about restrictions implies they are real (IMO, vibe of them)
-alright im like completely getting distracted writing this LOOOOOL ok im just townbinning this slot even tho your takes are sometimes bad <3

At this point i am more convinced of scum!blitzo.


TITUS
-bell shaded her early on
-gamma has a townread on her!!
-ok lol im gonna kinda skip this one for now since what ive seen in my brief skim so far has made me not want to lim her anymore. She was on scum wagon and pushed it and scum shaded her and a nightkill townread her -> implies shes town

OUTWORLDER
-*sigh* opens with the accusation that people mechsolving are scum…… unfortunately this is shit that town says bc they are paranoid.
-was seemingly unaware of the mechanic that scum claiming tasks = autocompleted
-i like their mech approach even though I feel it could be wrong.
-thought process is consistent with town mindset, esp outworldwise with his meta. I specced a scum game of his and was scum in a town game of his. There was a difference in thought process and this lines more up with his town one
-hammered bell? I think yeah. But reaction to voting bell = towny
-d3 i just in general vibed with ITI



MANWITHNONAME/TALY
-full disclosure if i dont tr this slot by the end of this gonna tunnel it
-enters with high WIM energy
-not sure when scum had time to plan pregame but assuming not much time, the crumbing post leans town
-very high game related post content. Like.. heavy.
-like wow theres so many posts
-pushes for answers to questions in 2188
-took the time to decode haschel’s codenames d2
-seemed legitimately annoyed they broke restriction
-voted bell
-task seems specific to the point where they have to stay in the room.
-manwithnoname subs in… nothing i can townread unfortunately.

Verdict: i think evidence points to taly not being a good lim slot today. Theres enough town evidence in there for me for the day. I do want to still flip blitzo at this point + my scumread on titus is loosening up a lot VOTE: Blitzo. Possibly last scum in HC/Flea? But blitzo im most sure of atm.

SirCakez/Pooky are last 2 i need to do and then im done with these. (to reiterate, these are trustfalls. Im listing reasons why i should townread these slots. Its a good exercise to undo bad scumreads. I would do distrustfalls which is the opposite but i dont think i have too many townreads atm to need to do that + my adhd has caused me to stall this for too long.)

I do implore people look at the interactions surrounding blitzo. I feel like the slot had fallen off a lot, esp after the bell lim. Feels like setup must seem more townsided from scum PoV. (this is often the case actually, where scum will look at situations where they lose a scum and think its all over for them in a mech heavy setup like this).

Gonna post this now.

[DkKoba]

guess I'll do this here now
if you dont have tasks go to electrical or weapons, wow

VOTE: blitzo goodbye scum
Gonna have myself some rum

[DkKoba]

So I still haven’t caught up yet? Do I read say three?

we won gdi

[DkKoba]

pretty much every town had at least 1 scum on their radar bravo

[DkKoba]

cakez started tone slipping once partners started getting limmed

[DkKoba]

wow I was so pocketed LMAO

MURDER U DIDNT LEARN SMH

[DkKoba]

MURDER U DIDNT LEARN SMH

Cake literally drove a town win today by organizing us all lmao

It didnt matter actually he was in autoloss.

[DkKoba]

So Shea, what was the point of Upper Engine? Apparently nobody had any tasks in there?

Imagine scum claimed a task there and they were the only one and were "cleared" based on that

[DkKoba]

Haschels Flea case is scummy nom worthy for how it turned the tide for Town

so it was a legit scumslip?

[DkKoba]

So 2/4 of the imposters can hard stop town from finishing tasks.

Only if town does something bonkers, like, say, hard claiming all rooms day 1.

well thats the expected town play most times, did you not balance with that in mind

[DkKoba]

town see the mechanic that allows double kills -> instantly afraid to potentially be alone with scum -> claim rooms to be together

[DkKoba]

So 2/4 of the imposters can hard stop town from finishing tasks.

Only if town does something bonkers, like, say, hard claiming all rooms day 1.

well thats the expected town play most times, did you not balance with that in mind

I just straight up disagree and so do all of my reviewers (and several players in this game.)

Mass claiming D1 is almost always a bad idea in a closed setup.

well now you see it in practice. people normally think ROLES are a bad thing to claim -> something like where one is going for the night feels natural because of the mechanic of being alone in a room.

[DkKoba]

the main driving factor that leads people to want to claim rooms is the mechanic of being killed while in a room with scum alone

[DkKoba]

I think if this setup is run, give scum 1 kill every other night but the imposter must be in the room with the target.

I don't see a realistic method of scum ever getting the double kill.

yeah the only way i saw scum getting double kills is if they were using it to endgame.

[DkKoba]

shea, i think for replacements in the future you should not have them have access to the PTs at the same time.

being able to side by side compare blitzo on n1 and n2 was very useful for m.e

[DkKoba]

felt a bit unfair in retrospect.

[DkKoba]

Did it though? I still don't feel like your case was particularly strong and I kinda feel like I died simply because you had a role that could stop me.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's just my take.

i mean there was that but i was not ceasing my push onto you.

[DkKoba]

still feel dumb for letting the NAI part convince me HC was scum doing a last ditch effort to save themselves

the rest of Flea's play was super scummy and i should have ignored the stupid argument over the "scumslip"

[DkKoba]

Flea's play there was actually pro-town -> which is why i was like ??? why are u guys considering this a scumslip, there's literally a list of rooms available publicly.

[DkKoba]

VoteCount 3.11

Haschel Cedricson [5]

Titus Pookythemagicalbear sircakez Mastina MURDERCAT

Battle Mage [1]

DrippingGoofball

WindowsXP[1]

Battle Mage

Blitzo [1]

WindowsXP

Pookythemagicalbear [1]

OutworldER

Not Voting [5]

Blitzo, xRECKONERx, Flea The Magician, Haschel Cedricson, Taly

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-12-29 17:05:20)

[DkKoba]

just love that as soon as i replace in im like "fuck u imma vote scum"

[DkKoba]

not every setup has anti claim balance.

[DkKoba]

that applies to roles not what room everyone is going to lol

[DkKoba]

if u cant understand the distinction people make psychologically then idk what to tell u

im speaking from the PoV of average mafia player who doesn't assume the mod gave scum every tool in the universe to stop town.

[DkKoba]

Also I'm not sure there's an argument to be made the claim helped scum that much either considering cake ended up with me but still didn't kill me

yeah the claims actually prevent scum from doing multikills because we KNOW they're there for sure. it harmed the alternative win con but prevented extra kill power

[DkKoba]

already explained but town sees: mafia can get extra kills if alone with another town

town reacts: oh fuck we need to claim what room we're going to so scum can't do this for free

[DkKoba]

already explained but town sees: mafia can get extra kills if alone with another town

town reacts: oh fuck we need to claim what room we're going to so scum can't do this for free

or town could use their very powerful brains to assume scum have been balanced to *actually utilize the core mechanic of the game*

you know, i made this exact argument like, first thing this game
it wasn't very hard
i didn't have to overclock the old noggin to get it done
i just applied the tiniest amount of critical thinking

well sorry not everyone has a huge brain like yours and knows the exact way the moderator will stop specific types of claims from being beneficial lol

[DkKoba]

I actually think that mafia getting an extra kill if alone should have maybe not been public information but I'm not sure.
If its public information and it happens its easy to sus out no?

best solution. people might still claim rooms because source material but until theres a double kill no one will know. also incorporating venting ? so ppl can join a room later on to speak in it?

[DkKoba]

well its not fun when SOMEONE keeps sabotaging them

i think it was a funny game storyline thing that I was stuck on you as soon as i replaced in like fitting that i hardtunnel my task sabotager

[DkKoba]

For the record: I feel like this game's mechanics may have incentivized the town to claim rooms, but also did have good punishments in place for them doing so. While the double-kill mechanic was one scum may not have been able to use well given the room claim, had the two scum roles designed to counter this strategy not been run up on D3/D4, due to the town's massclaiming of where they'd be, I do think the alt-wincon would've been impossible to achieve. Not hard--utterly impossible.

To put this into standard game mechanics:
If the town has a town doctor and a town cop and a town watcher and the scum have a scum ninja-strongman, the town would normally be punished for massclaiming, because the scum role would eat the town roles alive.
However, if the scum ninia-strongman is eliminated, suddenly, the mechanic used to punish the town from massclaiming is removed, and massclaiming goes from being something harming the town to being something that guarantees a town win.

Similar thing here; the massclaim of location was guaranteed to keep the town from achieving the alt-wincon with the scum PRs alive, but with the scum PRs dead, the town massclaiming guaranteed their ability to fulfill it.

this was my POV. because it was tied to the room, all scum had to do was keep sabotaging it. but then i see there is a "doctor" that can prevent a room from being sabotaged.

[DkKoba]

if u cant understand the distinction people make psychologically then idk what to tell u

im speaking from the PoV of average mafia player who doesn't assume the mod gave scum every tool in the universe to stop town.

Do you really join games (or think most people join games) thinking "the mod will let us no elim and not play mafia for 2 days and then win."

Because that's what the towns plan required to be true about my game to have a chance of working. As a player in this game (and any closed setup I play in, for that matter.) I assume that if I tell scum information that I have bad things will happen to me, for this game specifically I would have also assumed the mod wouldn't just design a game where town has no protection from being double killed in the setup, and indeed the double kill was balanced in two different other ways.

There at least was a more interesting discussion in this game because the double kill as you point out, but that discussion wasn't really had. Instead town just started claiming willy nilly and no elimmed day 1 and the people who suggested that this was maybe not a good idea (who were incidentally ALL town, by the way) got shouted down and called suspicious. I'm not saying that maybe you can't come to a place where you think the double kill is scarier than giving scum info, but I doubt that should be anyones default position in a closed setup.

Basically I think town played day 1 like this was an open setup and it ain't. But, a lot of mech mistakes get fixed with good day play and good night actions, and the town was very good in that regard here. I think I said multiple times in the dead thread from D1 on that there was just a shockingly large number of players in this game who were painfully town, and town was just going to win this game with town blocking and PoE aided by the PTs at night, which is pretty much exactly what happened, even though the win con was technically tasks.

town no lims d1-> learns theres are consequences for actions d2 bc rooms blocked, they try to no lim again-> learn there are consequences because tasks sabotaged
there's feedback there even if they went that path. (i think no lim and room planning was the optimal play regardless, although claiming tasks was NOT.)

[DkKoba]

For the record: I feel like this game's mechanics may have incentivized the town to claim rooms, but also did have good punishments in place for them doing so. While the double-kill mechanic was one scum may not have been able to use well given the room claim, had the two scum roles designed to counter this strategy not been run up on D3/D4, due to the town's massclaiming of where they'd be, I do think the alt-wincon would've been impossible to achieve. Not hard--utterly impossible.

To put this into standard game mechanics:
If the town has a town doctor and a town cop and a town watcher and the scum have a scum ninja-strongman, the town would normally be punished for massclaiming, because the scum role would eat the town roles alive.
However, if the scum ninia-strongman is eliminated, suddenly, the mechanic used to punish the town from massclaiming is removed, and massclaiming goes from being something harming the town to being something that guarantees a town win.

Similar thing here; the massclaim of location was guaranteed to keep the town from achieving the alt-wincon with the scum PRs alive, but with the scum PRs dead, the town massclaiming guaranteed their ability to fulfill it.

this was my POV. because it was tied to the room, all scum had to do was keep sabotaging it. but then i see there is a "doctor" that can prevent a room from being sabotaged.

Prevents the double kill, not the sabo. The RB is the only method has of stopping the sabo.

ahh i never knew that.

[DkKoba]

from an uninformed standpoint, yes, no limming d1 is best.

[DkKoba]

you scout for info, you get discussion time in PTs, you advance town wincon. scum are always forced to kill so you dont really worry about being in evens.

[DkKoba]

when i replaced in and was rereading i was like "yeah even now im seeing it as good that town claimed stuff", i thought claiming all tasks was bad though.

[DkKoba]

i think you misunderstood-> claiming the room you are going to is what I agreed with. not the room where your task is.

[DkKoba]

the task mechanic was an investigative of its own IMO - it was valuable info once you get down to a limited number of people with tasks left.

[DkKoba]

I think its funny though because I agree with outworldER that town played an absolutely stunningly good game of mafia. I don't think they played a good game of among us mafia lol, and I think if this setup were run again 100 times with players who don't know the setup and they all claim d1 and no elim town probably loses like 75% of those games.

I will say, that I think the PT mechanic is super interesting and reusable but also if I ever tell anyone I'm running a game where I have to send each vt an individual role PM and make 5 different PTs every night with the right privs and then remove them all the next day please slap me in the fucking face. thx.

i think this is a game i'd rather run in discord rather than here. duplicating a channel and adding people to it is much easier. (its how i handle PTs on my homesite with mech heavy stuff when I moderate games).

[DkKoba]

i think you misunderstood-> claiming the room you are going to is what I agreed with. not the room where your task is.

How do those things functionally not work out to be the same thing for the scum power roles that can still strategically target those rooms?

you still get people who complete tasks. scum cant block everyone. and then you're left with a pile of people with claimed completed and claimed uncompleted.

[DkKoba]

idk I approach mechs as another way to scumhunt someone, even if on paper it means nothing.
in chat mafia a lot of setups are heavily mech oriented. people read into HOW people claim stuff and discern alignment from it. (like ppl will call out a cop claim as scummy since they might word their report inno Player, when the system message says player is [alignment], etc)

if you take a look at betrayal mafia I, normally no one would think anything about someone claiming a sword like Lavar did(in fact forum players might instinctively townread it), but i used it as a sort of way to discern the intent of the person doing said action.

mafia is complex everything can be read into and deduced even if you disagree with it.

[DkKoba]

I think because of my spur-of-the-moment call to wagon end of day 1, that no elim ended up being more useful than an actual Titus lim would have been
I pinned 2 scum for things connected to that. Now, the reasons may not have held up in an argument but I was convinced by them and that gave me fuel to argue those reads.
In addition I think Cakez trying to push me for that was a turning point in how I read him, making me more confident he was scum over BM / some other weaker SRs
And then there was Blitzo who took way too much coaxing to vote. So practically all the scum looked worse because I made that move, in some way or another.

yup definitely having a faux wagon on d1 gives info too.

[DkKoba]

I think because of my spur-of-the-moment call to wagon end of day 1, that no elim ended up being more useful than an actual Titus lim would have been
I pinned 2 scum for things connected to that. Now, the reasons may not have held up in an argument but I was convinced by them and that gave me fuel to argue those reads.
In addition I think Cakez trying to push me for that was a turning point in how I read him, making me more confident he was scum over BM / some other weaker SRs
And then there was Blitzo who took way too much coaxing to vote. So practically all the scum looked worse because I made that move, in some way or another.

I think some of this is conf bias. Taly, who was town for instance, also looked very bad at the end of d1. MC also.

ironically this is why i scumread Taly slot.

[DkKoba]

idk I approach mechs as another way to scumhunt someone, even if on paper it means nothing.
in chat mafia a lot of setups are heavily mech oriented. people read into HOW people claim stuff and discern alignment from it. (like ppl will call out a cop claim as scummy since they might word their report inno Player, when the system message says player is [alignment], etc)

if you take a look at betrayal mafia I, normally no one would think anything about someone claiming a sword like Lavar did(in fact forum players might instinctively townread it), but i used it as a sort of way to discern the intent of the person doing said action.

mafia is complex everything can be read into and deduced even if you disagree with it.

I've probably played more chat mafia then you have tbh.

i have ~3k games played across all my accounts on varying types of setups

[DkKoba]

Scum literally had two chances to double kill which they didnt take.

They would have been straight up suicide tho

yeah.
people just go "hey who was where"

and then its PoE down to them easily.

[DkKoba]

Haschels Flea case is scummy nom worthy for how it turned the tide for Town

so it was a legit scumslip?

Yes lol he actually slipped twice; the post full of broken links was from a copy paste from scum chat

ah the broken links I would have bought.

the thing about corridor??
i was like nah........ no way. i bought the reasoning flea gave.

[DkKoba]

I think I could have gotten pretty far if I had had the Task Disruptor role

u would have tortured me the whole game

[DkKoba]

The night Blitzo got rbed we tried to kill you

blitzo: get this fucking operating system off my ass

[DkKoba]

i definitely pushed gamma as a ML option twice as scum.