Among Us Mafia [GAME OVER]

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Pooky

Pooky/Alisae are scum.

Immediately trying to get town to divulge all the information scum could possibly want, pushing NE's so they don't have to face any possible pressure, and distracting town away from actual scumhunting with our alternate win condition.

All of this is a favorable game-state for scum, not town. Town should want the locations they have to go to be secret so that scum can't plan where they're going without making reads (outside of circumstances were Town should want to team up with other Town in a hood.) Town should want scum elims for obvious reasons AND to reduce likelihood of the big scary extra kill. Town will still want regular elims for the reasons we always want regular elims. Tasks become distributable anyways when they die and we can push the public tasks to people who are widely TR'd and already going to the same location (which would be a scenario we'd actually want to have people claiming tasks.)

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please stop falling for scum ploys to give them a favorable gamestate.

[OutWorldER]

I just don't think it makes sense at all
The reasons for the advantages in this plan have been stated in thread now

Said advantages were: "We can get our alternate win!" "Town doesn't have to fear the bonus NK!" among other things.

The first one would be nice, but we're in a closed setup with no idea of what scum can or cannot possibly do to Town. In Among Us, the game, Imposters could sabotage the ship in various ways. There's no reason to think that isn't the case here too.

The bonus NK is a moot point either way, and divulging our tasks here only makes it more likely to happen and to people we don't want it to.

[OutWorldER]

This should be obvious but just to reiterate: the more townies that die, the more tasks we have to get done with fewer players.

That's the logic of the noelim.

We could just uh...push tasks onto TR'd people? That also have tasks in the same location as the public tasks?

No Elim is a nonsensical move.

[OutWorldER]

i think it's most likely that Alisae is town and Titus is scum. Akarin town, Pooky town, Cakez town.

Sell me on these reads.

1-2 people will die every night anyway. Those tasks don't get completed.

So we're going to be picking up some extra tasks no matter what.

There will likely be enough tasks, scum don't need to avoid claiming them, that's not going to be a reliable tell.

There are 10 possible locations, it's not as trivial to keep everyone together as I think Flea and Cute Barking Doggy are thinking.

What is this garbage.

The first two points in no way countered what I said about No Eliming being dumb and the tasks point being a non-issue.

The last point is uhhhhhhhh I wasn't worried about that? I want to keep scum in the dark. They already have the advantage of the informed minority. Telling them exactly where we're going, what we need to be doing, is awful. Especially since, again, this is a CLOSED SETUP.

[OutWorldER]

Like, I don't know how to get through to you all that hedging all of our bets on Task Completion and almost entirely ignoring traditional scumhunting is bad in a closed setup and the people who are pushing No Elim are probably scum.

[OutWorldER]

Like, I don't know how to get through to you all that hedging all of our bets on Task Completion and almost entirely ignoring traditional scumhunting is bad in a closed setup and the people who are pushing No Elim are probably scum.

Agree but disagree that the people pushing no elim are scum. Except cake who is scum.

I'd be down for a Cakez elim.

I'm still entirely convinced that Pooky/Alisae are trying to wrangle the game and town into a favorable state for scum.

[OutWorldER]

Like, I don't know how to get through to you all that hedging all of our bets on Task Completion and almost entirely ignoring traditional scumhunting is bad in a closed setup and the people who are pushing No Elim are probably scum.

You’re probably right but there’s time for doing both (probably)

We can balance both but my problem and the reason I've reacted so violently to this is that Alisae/Pooky/Cakez pushed this plan immediately, start of D1 when we are with no information.

I don't know how I'm supposed to read that as anything but a scum ploy.

Like:

we can always swing to scumhunting if the task plan isn't working...

this should be our plan when Town has finally caught up in the deficit of information. Not start of D1 let's do it go go go

[OutWorldER]

also outworld we do have a lot of information at hand already

Like fucking what?

We have no idea of scum abilities outside of educated guesses. Nobody was able to read anything before Pooky/Alisae started pushing this. We have no flips.

[OutWorldER]

also outworld we do have a lot of information at hand already

Like fucking what?

We have no idea of scum abilities outside of educated guesses. Nobody was able to read anything before Pooky/Alisae started pushing this. We have no flips.

we have everybody's rooms that they need to go to and their tasks

Information that scum didn't have, they shouldn't have had, and which was only obtained by scum and town because nobody thought for two seconds before going along with a plan that gives scum everything they need to plan their Night phase.

Also:

nobody who is against the noelim plan can actually provide an argument for it being bad

Literally explained like 5 times already why No Elim is awful.

[OutWorldER]

Like fucking what?

We have no idea of scum abilities outside of educated guesses. Nobody was able to read anything before Pooky/Alisae started pushing this. We have no flips.

well obv its better to try to finish all the tasks in an organized and safe manner on d1 rather than wait until half the crew is dead first no?

It's better to try and make a task-based plan when we've actually closed the deficit of information and Town is in a position to force scum to make bad plays with the Task mechanic.

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Pooky

Pooky/Alisae are scum.

Immediately trying to get town to divulge all the information scum could possibly want, pushing NE's so they don't have to face any possible pressure, and distracting town away from actual scumhunting with our alternate win condition.

All of this is a favorable game-state for scum, not town. Town should want the locations they have to go to be secret so that scum can't plan where they're going without making reads (outside of circumstances were Town should want to team up with other Town in a hood.) Town should want scum elims for obvious reasons AND to reduce likelihood of the big scary extra kill. Town will still want regular elims for the reasons we always want regular elims. Tasks become distributable anyways when they die and we can push the public tasks to people who are widely TR'd and already going to the same location (which would be a scenario we'd actually want to have people claiming tasks.)

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please stop falling for scum ploys to give them a favorable gamestate.

absolutely terrible
horrific
disgusting post
and you're probably town for it, because this level of superior reasoning doesn't come from scum

I'm somewhat confused because this post is obvious disagreement with me.

there must be safeguards in place for us to not simply out all information d1 and no elim our way to a task victory
fundamentally trying to diverge from a normal game of Mafia on d1 setup speculation does not seem at all likely to pan out into a win

But then this one is basically saying the same point I've been trying to scream at other people the entire time?

[OutWorldER]

Spoiler: Quote

VOTE: Pooky

Pooky/Alisae are scum.

Immediately trying to get town to divulge all the information scum could possibly want, pushing NE's so they don't have to face any possible pressure, and distracting town away from actual scumhunting with our alternate win condition.

All of this is a favorable game-state for scum, not town. Town should want the locations they have to go to be secret so that scum can't plan where they're going without making reads (outside of circumstances were Town should want to team up with other Town in a hood.) Town should want scum elims for obvious reasons AND to reduce likelihood of the big scary extra kill. Town will still want regular elims for the reasons we always want regular elims. Tasks become distributable anyways when they die and we can push the public tasks to people who are widely TR'd and already going to the same location (which would be a scenario we'd actually want to have people claiming tasks.)

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please stop falling for scum ploys to give them a favorable gamestate.

I just don't think it makes sense at all
The reasons for the advantages in this plan have been stated in thread now

Said advantages were: "We can get our alternate win!" "Town doesn't have to fear the bonus NK!" among other things.

The first one would be nice, but we're in a closed setup with no idea of what scum can or cannot possibly do to Town. In Among Us, the game, Imposters could sabotage the ship in various ways. There's no reason to think that isn't the case here too.

The bonus NK is a moot point either way, and divulging our tasks here only makes it more likely to happen and to people we don't want it to.

Like, I don't know how to get through to you all that hedging all of our bets on Task Completion and almost entirely ignoring traditional scumhunting is bad in a closed setup and the people who are pushing No Elim are probably scum.

Alright, let's talk.
Because quite frankly, I don't see the harm in encouraging conversation about this.
To me, I see an alternate way to win the game, and I feel like that's worth discussing. To me, I think killing is bad given said altnernate win condition.
However to you, you feel like the alternate wincon isn't worth your time.
I don't think anyone here is ignoring normal scumhunting. I think this is a great way to get the game started and to try to form reads. I'm personally a bit slow when it comes to forming reads, but either way I think this discussion is great because we get to see what alignment wants what.

So I just have a few questions.

How does leashing where everyone is going pro-scum?
Why do you think me and Pooky are doing this to not face pressure?
What is scum going to do with the information of knowing where everyone is going to go? How can they even do anything with that information if we're leashing them and forcing them to go to the room that the village wants them to go to. To my understanding, an extra kill can only happen when it's just 1 imposter and 1 villager. I understand you may be afraid of the unknown and I think its okay for you to be afraid of the unknown, but let's say their sabotage makes it so villagers are forced to go into a specific room or that they don't even have a sabotage at all. What are they going to do with that information?

1) and 3) Your essentially giving scum the ability to warlock the game without ever having to put themselves in danger.

Consider the following:
Scum gets everyones task claims and where they're going, they formulate fake task claims so they can hood themselves with people they're pocketing and who can drive the game forward. They then start letting said pockets drive the overall game narrative while they coast by.
You might call that far-fetched but experienced scum could pull it off easily.

I'd also point out that the style of leashing is incredibly inefficient for town because it does not help Town solve at all. We're better off leashing specific people who are highly SR'd. Leash high SR'd people to TR'd people and we get much better information.

2) Pushing No Elim and trying to push an alternate wincon victory, immediately, in a closed setup with no knowledge of scum utility. I don't know how you expect me to see that as anything BUT trying to discourage town from scum-hunting and get town to misuse D1.

I'm also going to respond to TGP and Alisae simulatenousy:

No.

I'm not ignoring the mechanics of the game or the alternate win condition. I think the hoods will probably be pretty valuable to us if they're used right, and once we close the deficet of information with scum we can use the Task mechanic to push scum into bad plays or put them in an unwinnable scenario.

I just do not think it is a good idea to immediately make a plan based around our alternate win-con from the get-go, on D1, when we have the least information.

[OutWorldER]

One last thing before I dip out of this thread for a while because my head gets woozy when I think too hard.

The No Elim plan is also awful because it prevents PR's from forming reads and will make Town night actions awful.

why would pocketing even matter if we're going for a task win?

pedit: two last things

Town PR's exist, unknown scum utility exists, people getting smart to this BS plan will exist.

[OutWorldER]

every one of your complaints has to do with solving this game by killing the bad guys

im proposing we solve the game by just doing all the tasks as quickly and efficiently as possible.

And I've said, 1000 times and I'll keep saying it:

Trying to win off solely off mech in a closed setup is setting up town for failure

You are setting up town for failure

You are scum.

Actual last post, I'm going to log off and wait for others because I'm sure others are not happy with me spamming shit up.

[OutWorldER]

Outworlder is town I think. Pooky is town. BM is town I think. Cake is scummy but I'm not convinced whether we should or shouldn't elim today yet tbh. Also I'm not pushing for an elim like an hour into the game.

MC sell me on these reads you had earlier. Also tell me who you want to wagon right now and if you're willing to join me on a Pooky wagon.

I obviously don't want to elim anybody yet but I want wagons to start forming because I need more sources of information other than just this mech talk.

@BM

I asked a similar question to you earlier, sell me on your reads.

[OutWorldER]

I'm not asking you to commit to anything.

I'm asking you who think is worthy of both yours and my vote, as well as whoever else I can convince to start voting.

[OutWorldER]

MC do I need to write a 10 page dissertation on why No Elim and not voting is pretty dumb in this game in order to convince you

[OutWorldER]

I think there are many situations that No Elim is useful.
I vehemently disagree to a Day 1 No Elim on principle simply due to the nature of Day 1.

I also don't think it's impossible to switch from wagoning somebody to No Elim if it becomes required, and we have a generous deadline.

[OutWorldER]

I think OutWorldER is being far too

dogmatic

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Pooky

Pooky/Alisae are scum.

Immediately trying to get town to divulge all the information scum could possibly want, pushing NE's so they don't have to face any possible pressure, and distracting town away from actual scumhunting with our alternate win condition.

All of this is a favorable game-state for scum, not town. Town should want the locations they have to go to be secret so that scum can't plan where they're going without making reads (outside of circumstances were Town should want to team up with other Town in a hood.) Town should want scum elims for obvious reasons AND to reduce likelihood of the big scary extra kill. Town will still want regular elims for the reasons we always want regular elims. Tasks become distributable anyways when they die and we can push the public tasks to people who are widely TR'd and already going to the same location (which would be a scenario we'd actually want to have people claiming tasks.)

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please stop falling for scum ploys to give them a favorable gamestate.

How do YOU know what scum wants? Also we want SCUM to take tasks, not town, so suggesting obvtown take them is a horrible move.

Experience. Educated Guessing. Common Sense. All things that let me figure out what scum would probably want to do.

The scum taking tasks things sounds nice in theory but in reality your essentially hoping you guessed right on alignment with no flip (and if the person who takes them isn't scum and doesn't have a task in the same location as the task your taking your only further tanking efficiency, not increasing it.)

[OutWorldER]

I'll go along with a Titus wagon for now.

VOTE: Titus

[OutWorldER]

Also reminding people Reck scumslipped in a post

Which post was the scumslip? Are you talking about 121?

[OutWorldER]

OWER

is an interesting slot in this situation, on one hand, he has a valid viewpoint on

Pooky/Ali

... the other, is that it is weird AF for him to wagon

Titus

after doubling-down on the

Pooky

scumread. Interactions make him least likely to be aligned with the other... OR

(2:2)

situation involving him is where i would start to investigate.

I mostly went with the Titus wagon to get things off this mech talk and encourage town to ditch the awful No Elim plan.

Already it's paid off since we've got more tangible things to go after and our positions in the game now are not solely based on support/opposition for the Pooky/Ali plan, at least for the people involved in this wagon.

I had reservations about Titus's posting before this recent bout since it feels like she should've at least had some weigh-in on the mech posting but this recent streak seems mostly like standard Titus.

Titus's points against BM ring true and considering his stances earlier his flip will help us sort the Pooky/Ali plan so I'm on board there.

VOTE: Battle Mage

@Titus

Who do you think are the scum on/were on your wagon outside of Battle Mage or is BM the only read you've got there?

[OutWorldER]

I know that, but I've watched her previously and even when her VCA was fairly weak she still seemed capable of getting out reads and weighing in on the goings on of Town.

But I guess attitudes change in a large and my reads on her are not likely to remain consistent this early in the day.

[OutWorldER]

Actually thinking about a Titus flip gets Town nowhere on sorting the Pooky/Ali plan contentions.

Scum might push her with that intent.

[OutWorldER]

I'm still in vehement disagreement of No Elim being good here, especially considering recent events.

At the very least, I'd like to flip somebody with hard stances on it, flip Me/Reck or Pooky/Ali. Then use the alignment to determine who's right.

[OutWorldER]

BM is the only read I have there. In a traditional mafia game, I would agree with your vote OutWorldER. Here no elimination is the best strategy though.

Tomorrow we can force him to pick up a task or get eliminated since he shouldn't have anymore to do after electrical. If we're right, then the task autocompletes. If we're wrong, he can still do the task. I can take the other task if I am not dead.

I'm still in vehement disagreement of No Elim being good here, especially considering recent events.

At the very least, I'd like to flip somebody with hard stances on it, flip Me/Reck or Pooky/Ali. Then use the alignment to determine who's right.

And like, I don't think it's impossible, given the deadline and everything, that we could switch to No Elim from a wagon near EoD.

The simple refusal to vote at all coming from multiple people is bad and I would not be surprised if some of those were scum not wanting to put in the effort to formulate fake reads.

[OutWorldER]

I'm still in vehement disagreement of No Elim being good here, especially considering recent events.

At the very least, I'd like to flip somebody with hard stances on it, flip Me/Reck or Pooky/Ali. Then use the alignment to determine who's right.

The correct path is to force scum into claiming tasks or get eliminated. This puts us closer towards winning regardless of who is right. Right now, there are no tasks to claim.

Does this have to be done with No Elim though? That's a question that hasn't been answered. I don't see why this strategy has to have No Elim to work. If anything, having more public tasks lets us put more pressure on suspected scum.

No Elim only makes sense if you're absolutely trying to run through tasks as efficiently as possible which as I've repeated 1000 times should not be our plan from D1 in a closed setup.

You are correct that the basis of my flip plan is somewhat fallacious but the thing about it is that a flip now will give one side (talking about support/opposition to the plan, not necessarily alignement) control of the overall game narrative for a short while. Then, after a few days or such the remaining town can use the previous flip to decide if that narrative is good, bad, town-driven, scum-driven, etc.

[OutWorldER]

I'm posting directly out of my own stream of consciousness so if you can't understand me just say and I'll try to reign myself in.

[OutWorldER]

Does this have to be done with No Elim though? That's a question that hasn't been answered. I don't see why this strategy has to have No Elim to work. If anything, having more public tasks lets us put more pressure on suspected scum.

For today, yes. In future days, no. Too many public tasks means we can't complete and do them all.

If we can get through D1 with only two public tasks, then I can take one and we can force a scumread to take the other. As long as I don't fuck up, this is a great plan.

Then after night two, at least some people can pick up the slack.

At most, there will be 6 public tasks, assuming a miselim today, and two NK's, and all 3 lims had 2 tasks.

There is no limit on how many tasks can be taken per day that I can see. Nor a limit on how many tasks a single townie can claim.

So I'd think it'd be pretty hard to get overwhelmed with tasks, especially if we can shove them onto scum or onto a townie who has multiple tasks in the same area.

[OutWorldER]

Like, simple mathematics supports limming actually INCREASING our efficiency in getting tasks done, and only becomes more efficient if we have any Protective PR's

[OutWorldER]

why is that the case?

Alright, let's make some assumptions:

We have 13 Townies and 4 Scum. (Assumed, could be less could be more.)
All townies have 2 tasks each (I know for a fact this isn't true but let's assume it so for the sake of simplicity)
That means we have 26 tasks to complete.
Assume that Townies can complete 1 PRIVATE task per day.
The scenario described above happens. 3 Elims and 6 tasks are public.
Let's also assume we have a doctor or other protective PR.

We force all 6 onto somebody we think/know is scum and then just ignore him. Boom, 6 tasks that don't count against us. We can no elim that day to ensure at least 10 tasks are completed. We just wiped out 16 tasks by D2 (assuming no failures). Easy game.

None of this accounts for the sheer amount of pressure we get to have by simply having a lot of public tasks available.

This is what I mean when I say scum want No Elim more than town, they get to avoid pressure in many ways not only by avoiding votes but also by avoiding having a lot of tasks available and not having to deal with the threat of winning the game for town.

If anything Day 1 is absolutely the day we DO NOT want to No Elim. I'll probably be fine with it on later days.

Now forcing onto Town is somewhat more complex, and I'll have to prepare that post in like a word doc or something because it requires a bit of math so hold on a second.

[OutWorldER]

I'll point out before I start writing up that other post that I did say No Elim on D2 would be good option. I think there will be a place for No Elim this game.

Just not D1.

[OutWorldER]

Wait I did say that

i'm losing my fucking mind, I think.

[OutWorldER]

ig its just a me issue then

oh no trust me I also hate post restrictions outside of a certain boundary.

hi I'm back

I was working on my big excel sheet of mech spec and then I started wanting to shoot myself so I just played Shadow of Mordor for a couple of hours.

What's up.

you guys should definitely do all the posting done today you want to do

cuz tommorrow is going to be comically badly post restricted lolol

nobody fuck up their tasks pls

can we finish the massclaim and go to night then? seems like we're not achieving much else.

Battle Mage wagon needs to be bigger.

[OutWorldER]

Post restrictions are the one piece of info I feel town is probably alright giving away. I don't think scum can do much with it.

There is way too much pointless drivel right now.
Not sure how I feel about it either, considering how big the game is.
I might start perusing that group instead.

Don't let this dumb shit distract you from the fact that we need to vote Battle Mage right now.

[OutWorldER]

I wish one of Blitzo/Battle Mage had avi's because it's going to be a bitch telling them apart later.

[OutWorldER]

you're planning to elim me today so does it matter?

It's only 2 days into deadline.

When did I ever say I wanted you to be the elim?

[OutWorldER]

So I can start getting a ball rolling on something other than mechanical talk and setup speculation.

This doesn't take long to think about.

I also want to see more posting from you in general since this posting from you doesn't feel like what I've witnessed first-hand in O799.

[OutWorldER]

Blitzo is scum :sadface:

Sell me on this.

[OutWorldER]

can someone condense the cases on

BM

and

Haschel

?

flea

i notice you say

Hasch

is sus but are still on

BM

, why?

i liked

reck's

732, to be concise, i dont think they are manufactured takes.

reck

, hmu

p-edit

Blitzo is scum :sadface:

Sell me on this.

you inquire like this a lot, what is the purpose?

If the person is town I get their fellow perspective on where they're at in the game, which helps me shape my own reads.

If the person is scum then their read will be fake or will have an agenda behind it, which will show, albeit most likely not immedietly.

[OutWorldER]

Spoiler: Quote

Taly is by far my strongest townread for being the person who is visibly doing the most scumhunting.

This wasn't on the list of things I think I'd read upon my lazy half-ass skim But I'll take it.

Flea/OWER/Murder

, you all have very different vibes than in https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84987 where I was scum hydra with

Ali

wolfing on all of you townies

flea

, you are much more upfront with POV, kind of hard to navigate and get to the meat of your posting, and you take so much initiative here that I don't know how genuine that is.

OWER

, your dog pic is really fucking cute and that probably contributes to the pocket, can you give me an in depth take on

BM/Ali/Pooky

? You are far more active in pushing your ideas than the linked game above.

Murder

, WHERE YOU AT? methinks I skim over you so much that you are an assassin meant to kill us all quietly... but tbh I sympathize, I think I'd be FAR less

"not-on-the-radar"

if people took the time to read me more.

I stand by

Bell/Ali/Pooky/Reck/OWER/Gamma

town

TENTATIVELY

. I want to reread them as well as

BM/Murder/Flea

before I double-down 100%.

If I can make a solid towncore with at LEAST 6-7 people AND find a vote this dayphase, I'd be golden with solving in the future.

DG

;3 I'll vote soon, I never disappoint.

also who is

Blitzo

? i demand everybody who reads this post to say

"

Blitzo

is town/scum/?"

so I can gauge how many wagons this gamestate actually wants to have...

BM's play is far different from what I remember in the game I played with him, where was very active in engaging other people and wasn't really a passive fluff-poster like he is here. Especially given there's a lot of contradictions in his play so far. (Compare 111 to 129, 75 and 153). Other posts like 198 and such ping me.

Ali is a known powerwolf and wants to manipulate the gamestate/narrative to eir advantage and the fact that they were one of the first people pushing No Eliminate plan makes me suspicious.

The thing that really pings me about both of them is that neither put a vote down in RVS, which even Pooky did. Maybe I'm seeing things that aren't there but to me it signals that they knew the plan they wanted to push before the game started, despite Ali saying e hadn't thought about the setup and didn't want to.

Pooky is probably my weakest SR after a bit of thought, but I still have a lot of reservations about people trying to push a mechanical victory in a closed setup and his somewhat disingenuous approach to opposition such as in 1113. I think of the three, he's probably the most likely to just be overeager town that's tunnel visioning on a alt. win-con.

As for why my play is different, it's mostly because after that game I finally figured out how I want to approach mafia games as town, how I want to read them, and a style of analysis. Which is why I'm more confident and a bit more thought-out here.

Regarding more mech-talk:

I think Leashing is fine but better to be done in a limited manner. Ideas include:

A) Having 1 claim in each area. That's 10 claims but at the very least we'll know that 1 person should or should not be in that area.

B) Getting task claims out of high SR'd people to track their movement.

C) TR's task claiming with each other to form town-blocs. If we do this right we can essentially have multiple groups of Masons running around.

I think seeing the Areas as just rooms to do tasks in and avoid multi-kills is a bad idea. I think having hoods which anyone can enter is a pretty powerful ability for Town for the same reason why Neighborizer is a strong role in the right hands.

[OutWorldER]

Can we move on to no elimination and compliance? I am bored and this feels like an RVS that will last forever.

This is an attitude I see both you and BM spouting and it's just like:

People have solid reads, wagons are being started, people are pushing.

Were also only 3 days into deadline.

How the fuck does this possibly feel like RVS? Why are you so quick to end the day; even if your going with Pooky's plan, there's still a lack of claims so ending the day early with a No Elim vote would be awful?

[OutWorldER]

I think the most frustrating thing about mech talk is it's completely necessary in setups like this, but people's eyes glaze over when it starts.

I think there's plenty of AI stuff in there. Specifically in MurderCat's

approach

to sort-of agreeing with stuff but not pushing it. As their responses to me trying to point that out where they got into "well I was among the first to claim" as a defense. Why do you think that's totally irrelevant to alignment?

I guess, but if people don't want to do a specific plan, I don't see the point in discussing much further.

I'm pretty solid on my approach with the setup.

>

No lim decision is delayed a little latter D1.

>

I want to group but I don't think everybody should, especially if they'd rather not.

>

Claiming rooms is up to the person but I think it helps the above two setup takes more.
Do you want to group with somebody for your room today? I made a requote post-chain that never went beyond

Murder/Flea

...

As for

Murder

, I didn't see the

"I was the first to claim defense"

or the context around it? But I don't think

"sort-of-agreeing"

is AI as a principle because there's 16 slots to sort in 7 days with a lot of focus on mechanic discussion. So I'm not convinced of your read here unless you give tangible examples...

also, do post links instead of quotes if you must. That's easier for me to look at, please.

p-edit

@Taly - dcan you go more in-depth on that barter statement?
Why is that scummy?
Who are your other scumreads and why?

Because for

DGB's

votes - until mine - have been onto more popular wagons and I can't tell if they're trying to push people off reads or to upstart a wagon that threatens to lim.

I can't tell the sincerity behind their posts and I feel like they're dismissive to anyone they think is scum, which is usually more annoying than scum, but I want to push it right now.

Titus

is someone I'm sorting heavily because I don't know what to make of that OMGUS take of my vote on

DGB

and I want to gauge their POV over the no-lim vote just yet.

I honestly don't have many scumreads at the moment. Not something I want to admit, but I'm working to rectify this.

@Taky My votes are to make the game move forward, not to barter. To create alignment indicative content. Pressure people, force them to take stances, inspire them to participate. Yeet scum if I do it right.

Then what changed your mind on

BM/Blitzo

?

p-edit

mainly just pissy because i am giving content and im upset with the handwave dismissal i sense from 1/3rd of the plist. ill get over it soon.

I am reading your posts but I am struggling to get a ton from them
Thus my post

I don't know what to say other than... just tell you to ask what you want to know? Uh.

It's definitely more in-good-faith to just ask if I'm not clear about something rather than perpetuate the narrative that I'm convoluted, which I feel others have done.

(Alisae, DGB, Reck, even Murder a little)

I don't know what else to do for you.

/shrug

Really like this post from Taly, reasonable suggestions and thought processes, a lot of which are similar to how I'm thinking about the game.

Haven't been posting a lot due to being busy with other things, but I will say that I do have stuff to work with here, I just need time to formulate it into my thoughts on the game.

[OutWorldER]

Been dealing with my dad's back problems among other obligations, apologies for the tardiness.

My tardiness and lack of being able to in-depth read also might mean the following observations are completely off-base, so ignore me if I'm just being an idiot here.

Anyways, from my own observation of the gamestate, it appears we're in a low where everyone seems to be on low motivation, wagons and votes are being put down but not going anywhere. Nobody's driving a narrative or an agenda.

This says to me one of two things:

1) Scum had control of the game narrative and lost it, and no townie is picking up the slack.
2) Town had control of the game narrative and lost it, and scum are content to let town stew in that.

So I think our two suspect behaviors are either going to be former drivers of big agendas that were shaping the narrative previously or slots that are low-activity, flip-floppy or just generally taking actions that keep the game in this stagnant state.

I'll have to do a more through read-through of these last few pages to properly hone in but I think for now my pool is something like {Ali, MC, Haschel, DGB}. I'd also like to hear other thoughts because again I've been out of it and I might just be completely off the mark.

[OutWorldER]

My strongest TR's at this point are Akarin and Bell, mostly because they least fit into the game-state as I observed in 1553. I also think Blitzo is somewhat likely to be town for those reasons. The wagon on him doesn't really seem to have a driver? At least that I've observed, and despite no-one really coming to his defense it's mostly stalled, and while normally you could attribute that to the No Elim plan there seems to be a consensus to vote anyways so the stagnation of his wagon suggests to me that he's probably town.

I keep thinking about it and I'm mostly talking myself into a Murdercat vote the more I do. He seems to be the main one keeping the game in stagnation and furthermore has expressed content with this game-state, despite the current trajectory of this day being mostly bad for town with the weak reads from most players and lacking motivation. He shows no initiative to try and influence the game-state in any way and his posts such as 1180 showcase that he has no initiative to force other slots to make AI content.

VOTE: Murdercat

As an aside, I had time to think about it and I've mostly come around to the claiming rooms part of the plan, though not to the No Elim portion.

So I've got 1 task in Cafeteria.

[OutWorldER]

Honestly there's a good chance I'm alone tonight you should probably just see if I die

Murdercat elim is now non-negotiable

Okay?

Okay.

[OutWorldER]

How does the murdercat allegations not also fit Titus perfectly?

Do you have some objection to an MC elim?

Because it feels like you're disregarding MC and Titus being scum together as a possibility.

[OutWorldER]

Flea why are you not voting MC.

BM is transparently busing MCat but he can go out the airlock next.

[OutWorldER]

Distancing? Trying to create doubt in the vague hope you got off here? Scum theatre to try and make BM look townie?

[OutWorldER]

I keep thinking about it and I'm mostly talking myself into a Murdercat vote the more I do. He seems to be the main one keeping the game in stagnation and furthermore has expressed content with this game-state, despite the current trajectory of this day being mostly bad for town with the weak reads from most players and lacking motivation. He shows no initiative to try and influence the game-state in any way and his posts such as 1180 showcase that he has no initiative to force other slots to make AI content.

VOTE: Murdercat

Do you need me to explain this more clearly or...?

[OutWorldER]

your links don't work

my scumteam will be bad at this stage but something to the effect of {MC, BM, ?, ?}. My other reads are weak, don't fit into the game narrative and I'd rather see a lot of things before deciding MC's partners (assuming that I'm right on MC, which I think I am.)

[OutWorldER]

If

{BM/MC}

contain any scum then I'm confident that I'm a scum pocket. :/

OWER

, do you think 1318 and 1563 gamestates can realistically coexist?

IE, mine from a solving standpoint and yours from a narrative control point.

allow me to make sure I'm parsing this right:

1318 is you TR'ing BM, Flea, Pooky, Reck, Murder, Alisae, Gamma, and me, correct? And your asking me if I think that these reads can be correct while the game narrative I've observed is also true.

I gotta say no. Leaves too few people who fit the suspect behaviors I'm looking for in the game state and none of them actively contributed to the halt of the game narrative the way MC has. I mean, there is a chance but I find it very slim.

But I should iterate that this is only my POV, and I'm also certain that there is mostly likely one or more scum outside the behaviors I'm looking for. Which is why I want a flip so I can get a better handle on that.

[OutWorldER]

I still feel MC is the best elim here, not just from a probability of hitting scum standpoint but also from an associative solving standpoint.

I feel like a good case for Flea scum can be made regardless of MC's alignment due to how fence-sitty fae've been on the wagon. But I also have an aching feeling scum is setting them up to be lim-bait.

[OutWorldER]

1 day until deadline is up. We need to decide where we're going. I absolutely hate No Elim here as I've repeated several times. I'd also be disappointed in an elim other than MC, though I'm kind of willing to hop on Battle Mage if it becomes necessary.

[OutWorldER]

people state they don't understand why Murder was wagoned and like:

I thought I made my case pretty clear?

Some people who were voting him didn't understand why

I'm worried I'm being pocketed and TR'd for superficial reasons.

[OutWorldER]

A bunch of people said "I don't know why MC was wagoned" and then suddenly the wagon stopped.

Which is the thing I was questioning. I thought I made myself pretty clear.

[OutWorldER]

these are the worst post restrictions, dear lord. thank god mine is somewhat bearable

Akarin was big defender on Titus, very sus titus votes

VOTE: Murdercat I retain this from yesterday.

[OutWorldER]

oh god these post restrictions with the super tight deadlines

i'm going to shoot myself

[OutWorldER]

V/LA for the weekend

[OutWorldER]

apologies for the V/LA, holidays birthdays alongside my normal weekend obligations have all been hell on my schedule

currently reading through the thread but as I do I would like to know the reasoning for the bell votes, maestro votes,why Titus has fallen off the map for everyone (even though I never thought she was scum, Akarin kill only made me more convinced of that).

[OutWorldER]

weird things i'm noticing

1) votes very split
2) lots not voting
3) most intriguingly, seemingly no discussion of who should take Akarin's task despite forcing tasks onto scum being a popularly discussed strategy yesterday.

[OutWorldER]

OWER

: My ISO, I felt was very thorough on

OWER

my townread feels well reasoned. 1673 scum, I don't think it's with any of

{BM/Alisae slot/Pooky}

outright unless he's EXTREMELY effective with theatre and they've spent D1 pocketing me. I will say, I do agree with

Alisae's

issue with

OWER

mentioned the

Admin PT

it boiled down to two overarching points:

1) Alisae

felt

OWER's

take on them was garbage because

Alisae

, in their mind, was not trying to control the game.

2) OWER

is more active aggressive this game than when he was mislimmed as town in D1,

Student Council

.

I agree with these reasonings, I'd like

OWER

to contest these when he can. I like

OWER's

content but I don't have strong grasp on how best to read them because they seem to have a large tonal range than I believed. I like their assertions about the gamestate 1563, their willingness to work with me 1625, the insistence of evaluating

Akarin's

flip as a form of NKA to catch scum. 2603 I just really want to see them post more content now.

1) I thought (still think) Alisae was pulling some shit since e never put a vote down in RVS, seemed to mind-meld with pooky too easily about the No Elim plan, which was part of why I initially pushed those two.

seemed to me like at least Alisae had that planned from the beginning despite them saying they didn't think about mech and didn't want to.

2) After Student Council the recently finished Mini 2179 I decided upon method of analyzing my games as town, how I want to play, etc. I'm still probably trash but I at least feel I have a semblance of knowing what I'm doing unlike Student Council or Stuff I'm Listening To.

Also y'know, I kind of don't want to retain playstyle that gets me mis-elimmed D1.

As for why I came into the day SRing murder, I've cased it several times but it boils down to him being a big contributor to stagnating the game during a portion of D1 and his immediate reaction to his wagon being just awful (1566).

I am reevaulting things due to the current oddities of the day but I still don't feel great about MC, especially with Akarin elim.

[OutWorldER]

shit I forgot word that post

motherfucker

[OutWorldER]

Huh, surprised to be alive.

Not super thrilled with Jub-jub or the rest of you who claimed all your tasks and locations in light of the door-locking.

Anyway, I was in Comms last night.

rereading be like:

why did everyone let this post go

this is terrible, surprised to be alive but he was big wagon D1, flying under radar when he wasn't being voted

i'd vote it re-reading didn't make me more convinced on MC

oh yeah did I mention MC came into the day insta-voting Titus after an Akarin kill

akarin who was defending Titus, pushing MC???

i feel comfortable with MC/Haschel as lockscum

[OutWorldER]

IIRC Akarin's task was two nights cafeteria, remembering what she said in the PT.

forget what happens scum die with public task, but another elim candidate shows up i'll be happy with MC taking task.

[OutWorldER]

That being said, Outer might be scum too.

elaborate

[OutWorldER]

That being said, Outer might be scum too.

elaborate

I expected scum to push on Haschel. Both you and MC did.

before I become livid

you are thinking both MC, myself are scum or just one out two

[OutWorldER]

I assume you thinking scum pushing on Haschel means you think Hasch is town, right?

What exactly makes you confident about Hasch being town?

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Bell

rereading, sheeping titus's case on him plus he fits with the things I find murder scummy for. i can compromise on this.

[OutWorldER]

E-2 for Bell.

[OutWorldER]

UNVOTE:

i think reck tried to quickhammer that, huge FoS reck

now E-2 for Bell.

[OutWorldER]

oh yeah

i have no task after this, so i'm heading to cafeteria again, both to leash anybody there, as well as in case I fail my task today.

VOTE: Reck I can get on board with this.

[OutWorldER]

fuck it happened again

[OutWorldER]

i think Bell takes Akarin's task, Reck gets limmed, is fine plan for today, da?

[OutWorldER]

huh

why not

bell

lim while

reck

gets the task since he has no others?

also, does

reck

even want the task?

because reck just tried to quickhammer Bell

that makes me sus bell elim, i still think he's good chance being scum, which is why i want him to have the task. bell taking task also leashes him to me cafeteria.

[OutWorldER]

painful, more like

[OutWorldER]

UNVOTE:

took short break, with some consideration I think I want to see Bell post again before deciding how to end the day

regardless, our plan for the night should be setup during this time

Night 2 Plan

Cafeteria:
OutWorldER
Bell/Reck (whoever doesn't get limmed and takes Akarin's task)

Rest of areas:
???

help me fill in the blanks

[OutWorldER]

i'm going to shoot myself

[OutWorldER]

...

We've just established that imposters can lock doors. Why are we telling them where people are planning to go again?

So other people can know where others are when the doors are locked?

This isn't rocket science.

HAVE WE THOUGHT ABOUT WHO IS TAKING THE TASK?
SORRY IF I MISSED THAT

I think Reck takes, we lim Bell.

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Bell

I'm ready to end the day, I think we're all ready for the night, decently confident on Bell's flip

pedit: bruh

[OutWorldER]

game stalled out despite no significant counter-wagon.

scum probably off the wagon, though I don't think this reduces the chances Bell is scum (might even increase them)

we have 2 days left, I'd rather not repeat yesterday's no flip, everybody knows where they're going (I think), the task is claimed

[OutWorldER]

Cafeteria was locked, nobody out or appearing

BM scummy for other reasons i've talked about before, I think with Bell's wagon scum are likely to be either off the wagon completely or near the tail end

my suspects are BM, DGB, Flea. BM I feel most stronk about

VOTE: Battle Mage

failed task yesterday, posting still weird today

[OutWorldER]

Cafeteria was locked, nobody out or appearing

BM scummy for other reasons i've talked about before, I think with Bell's wagon scum are likely to be either off the wagon completely or near the tail end

my suspects are BM, DGB, Flea. BM I feel most stronk about

VOTE: Battle Mage

failed task yesterday, posting still weird today

Funny

Because you posted in Cafeteria.

because I was there the night before

what

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: OutWorldER

Byeeeeeeee lying scum

bruh

literally go back to D1, look where I claimed my task

you were literally with me Cafeteria N1

[OutWorldER]

no one new

my post restriction made me say the phrase weird way because I can't say the word that expresses the situation where people are being situated somewhere

[OutWorldER]

p-edit

no one new

my post restriction made me say the phrase weird way because I can't say the word that expresses the situation where people are being situated somewhere

UNVOTE:

Oh never mind sorry

i am getting real-time mindfucked by these quick

"gotcha"

votes that are withdrawn upon further explanation from who is voted.

blame post restrictions

[OutWorldER]

who did grab the task

[OutWorldER]

rooms locked also apparently keep people positioned where they were the previous night

apologies for not posting much I'm rereading through the thread to make sure I'm on the right right track with things

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

E-2

should probably figure what exactly we're doing tonight before execution though

i'm still partial to claiming rooms or at least doing limited claim so that people know where other people will be to be safe at night

[OutWorldER]

oh hey koba's here

thank god for their post restriction lmao

*Insert Blitzo's post here i'm not checkin that shit for all the forbidden words*

when did you lump me in with bell, I can't find this post. I ask because I'm curious what associations you think I have with Bell.

I'm falling off because holidays, that plus i'm not the best at hunting via association

anyways

VOTE: Pooky

i did some re-reading, this is what I think should be the lim

he threw out numerous posts containing mech-spec on D1 but even after scumhunting rose above the no-elim plan they still like, actively didn't. they had no relevant comments about the game-state, wagons, votes on D2 outside pushing Reck that one time.
he attributes this to his PR on D2 yet here we are on D3, his posting actively makes me remember Stuff I'm Listening To where he was scum active-lurking to get by while town imploded.
makes me feel like Pooky pushing No-elim on D1 was exactly what I thought at the time: a ploy to let him coast by

[OutWorldER]

i cannot say certain words. for example, I cannot say Andy (but remove the Y), I cannot say Officer (but remove the ficer), nor can I say the english lexicon's first letter. I cannot say interesting (but remove the teresting). I finally cannot say the first word uttered by famous video game character Mario Mario's catch-phrase.

please point examples to where i'm TMIing, supposedly.

[OutWorldER]

please point examples to where i'm TMIing, supposedly.

@Windows

still waiting

[OutWorldER]

koba be straight with me

was you saying I was tmiing just you pulling the same stunt you did to Ico?

or are you going to actually follow up on that little comment

you're asking people for concrete reads but are dancing around shit yourself

i also disagree with the statement that your obvtown for many reasons, chief among them being I don't actually think Alisae was playing eir towngame, plus I have reason to suspect e wanted to shift their scum-meta anyways based on comments they've made on MD threads.

[OutWorldER]

Oh, and fun fact; my little kitteh likes to roll around in an area that has been bleached after the bleach has been removed. (She's a bit insane that way.)

all cats like bleach/chlorine smell due to their heightened smell. mine also roll around when we bleach the floors/chlorine the pool.

[OutWorldER]

asking people to approach you with good faith while also evading me every chance you get. shading me for random reasons then not actually following up on anything (changing the reasons midway too, now your pushing PoE over TMI?)

save for the fact I'm very convinced on Pooky right now I would be voting you because awful display, this is

I can do Hasch today but I'd rather get Pooky. Very much reminding me about 2170 except this time they decided to hide behind mech talk D1. fits literally every criteria we're looking for with scum today.

[OutWorldER]

Pooky was off-wagon, very much not engaged with the thread (hiding behind his PR to absolve himself of that on D2 but even today's he's provided very little substance).

but I think the most damning piece is 3061 asking about we were ready to hammer bell but then turning around, voting titus, suddenly claiming he doesn't get the case against Bell on 3172

[OutWorldER]

Pooky/Haschel actually fit together pretty fucking magnificently

Pooky has only voted HC once. Today, when he's about to go down. Every other time Pooky has been going after Reck instead.

I think Pooky's been setting this up. Assuming Reck is green (I think he is at this point), I think, after the no-elim ploy failed, Pooky wanted to flip Reck, use the misflip to be like "oops, guess HC is also town", then use that to coast by with his buddies for the remainder. I think he's setup so if that he or Hasch goes down the other has the position to be TR'd due to Pooky pushing Haschel early (but not actually voting him) combined with Haschel being against Pooky's position early.

[OutWorldER]

He's already at E-2, my vote puts him at E-1.

We still need to figure out what we're actually doing tonight. Whether we're still going with room claims or not, etc. I also want to hear from people like Titus, Taly about my solve, iron out any difficulties.

[OutWorldER]

what is your actual read on Pooky, Cakez? I don't think I know where you stand on other slots outside HC.

[OutWorldER]

@Reck, but why?

[OutWorldER]

[quote="In post 3578
ower i want to go thru Socratic method with.u on ur read. I think ur approaching wrong. When i rolled scum against u i took advantage of this approach. A seemingly scummy player i could pocket? Hell yeah.
[/quote]

you have 300 words to fill out. you could have maybe used some to fuckin elaborate on what you mean by "i'm approaching things wrong". I'm especially curious what you mean by the latter part because the way I've approached this game from an analysis perspective is completely different from what my previous games.

[OutWorldER]

PR's, probably.

reck can you elaborate on your 3564?

[OutWorldER]

*Quote here*

see, the part where I disagree is that I don't think anything I described had to be planned out too far ahead. I think that could definitely be D1 thing that they ran with into later days. natural progression off each other's play.

I also definitely don't think that something like this could be called 4d chess, to me I'd call that simple scum strategy.

but then again my only scum-game on this site was with Flavor Leaf who does play somewhat proactive so maybe I'm biased when I'm thinking about scum want to do.

either way I think Pooky's play is just way too reminiscent to Stuff I'm Listening To regardless.

[OutWorldER]

also lmao posting immediately after reck voices disapproval regarding my theory when you responded to posts made afterwards like

you really are just open wolfing huh

[OutWorldER]

don't like the flea wagon because past experience (Student Council) with fae tells me faer limbaity. haven't really seen anything they've said as super scummy. wagon composition also does not give me good vibes.

[OutWorldER]

pooky now blatantly AtEing

can we please just kill him today? Flea wagon is awful, while I still think HC is probable scum I'm more confident on Pooky rn.

[OutWorldER]

yo we're 24 hours out from deadline

vote Pooky, please. I think literally every active player at the moment has expressed SR on Pooky, he shouldn't have only one vote. Flea/Hasch are bad elims.

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Blitzo

I'm a Roleblocker. Night One RB'd Murdercat, Night Two RB'd Battle Mage

Last Night, I roleblocked Blitzo.

Time to get this dub, boyos.

[OutWorldER]

maybe it was bad form to come out swinging like that but like

i'm pretty sure scum autolose here. between PoE solves and task completion I don't think they have anything left.

[OutWorldER]

Can you share the flair?

I knew that avatar was too scary

There is no flavor. It's just Crew Roleblocker.

[OutWorldER]

Windows if that post means you were trying to claim RB in my place then you should've said so in Admin PT lol.

Full disclosure I claimed this to Hasch and Windows last night in Admin PT.

Also there is no crumb because I'm peepee poopoo at playing power roles.

[OutWorldER]

yeah no scum no kill here approximately 0% of the time.

if there's a town protective other than me here I think town just wins here because we essentially just follows the RB and either tasks get completed or we get the last scum.

[OutWorldER]

I have zero tasks remaining, the one I completed yesterday was my only one.

[OutWorldER]

Alright I think the current townblock is some combination of

[Me, Haschel, DGB, Battle Mage, Murdercat, Titus/Mathblade, Taly/ManWithNoName]

this is from looking at the votecounts + the RB and what other people have said about their PT's.

Leaving [Pooky, Cakez, TGP/Mastina, Reck, Windows] as the final PoE.

Of them, my biggest SR's are on Pooky/Mastina. I have a TR on Windows and Mastina/Reck are kinda null for me.

I think this is a GG.

p-edit: if you said something about this while in Admin and I just forgot I'm sorry but I don't recall you saying anything about claiming in place of me.

[OutWorldER]

Cakez/Reck, woops.

[OutWorldER]

read BM's posts on the last page.

[OutWorldER]

If DGB and Blitzo were both scum BM would be dead.

[OutWorldER]

you're fuckin higher than a giraffe's pussy if you think Titus can be scum here

go back to D2 VC's, we got both Flea and Bell pushing Titus.

It's part of why I SR Pooky so heavily since he was also pushing up Titus D2.

[OutWorldER]

I think it's really just between Pooky/Mastina at this point for final scum.

[OutWorldER]

scum no-kill means tasks get completed. we can just no-elim on days after this.

scum autolose here, I think.

[OutWorldER]

That's E-1 for Blitzo, by the way.

[OutWorldER]

actually one moment

UNVOTE:

I need Pooky/Mastina to claim where they're going tonight before we end the day.

[OutWorldER]

my unvote puts him back at E-2, I think.

Just realized Pooky already claimed he wanted to go to weapons.

[OutWorldER]

Mathblade your fuckin blasted bro if you think scum no-kills at all in this setup.

task mechanic makes any kind of no-kill gambit incredibly stupid especially with 2 scum lims the prior days.

[OutWorldER]

MC where are you going tonight?

[OutWorldER]

oh wait you don't have a task anymore

[OutWorldER]

I'm going to go to Cafeteria because Reck's there I think (since he has Akarin's task and I remember Akarin stating they had a two day task in Cafeteria.)

Anyone else that isn't Pooky/Mastina that is able to follow me can do so.

unless there's anything else to take care of I'm pretty ready to end the day.

[OutWorldER]

do tasks get completed if like

the person just didn't post lmao

[OutWorldER]

I assume so

so eh

VOTE: Blitzo

E-1

[OutWorldER]

Claiming rooms was a good idea to prevent doubles, no-elimming and trying to win off mechanics alone was not, which was what I in particular had a violent objection to on D1.

I generally agree with Shea that just generally good dayplay and Haschel being a fucking hero was what won town the game and not any mechanical play (beyond the normal stuff like me blocking Blitzo)

I like the setup, I like having open neighborhoods and I wish I could've gotten more use out of it. GG's all-around.

[OutWorldER]

keeping the double kill a secret when it's a universal scum mechanic would be kinda dumb, in my opinion. the only reason it should be hidden like that is if it was a scum PR instead of a universal mechanic.

[OutWorldER]

Trying to win off solely off mech in a closed setup is setting up town for failure

i still stand by this statement 1000% by the way

[OutWorldER]

that said, I don't think the stumbling's of D1 should detract from what was ultimately a pretty phenomenal town victory.

[OutWorldER]

the only PR I flat-out didn't like was the quotes one. Other than that I thought they were generally well-thought out.