Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[Trendall]

Hello

[Trendall]

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

[Trendall]

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?

2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?

3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?

1. I've played a bunch of games on this forum, a few on forums with friends and thousands of games on epicmafia. Actually I just finished my first normal game on this website and it was really fun.

2. Can't stand being mafia and I'd always generally prefer being an unccd pr or something like that so that I don't have to deal with people's arguments against me.

3. How could you ever know?

[Trendall]

this is a bad tell

not a 'tell'

[Trendall]

If someone was one vote away from being lynched, and there were people who wanted to continue discussion but you were convinced they were scum, would you hammer them?

I dunno if I'd ever be 'convinced' of anything, but I'm happy with just hammering people I think are mafia rather than waiting for six days or whatever. Not on mylo or lylo though. Depends on various factors such as who is having the conversation and how productive it is, how likely I think the person being eliminated is to be able to talk their way out of it and so on.

[Trendall]

It feels like he's projecting something.

Only arrogance I think like 'one down, one more to go!'

[Trendall]

You probably like to order scum as first and last

Only chronologically in that the first person I identify as mafia is 'first mafia', once one mafia has flipped we are then looking for the 'second mafia' and so on. It's a real non-thing, I have no reason to disagree with your saying that they can be eliminated in any order and I can't think of a reason why anybody ever would.

I play like one setup on epicmafia quite a lot and on there it is very common for people to talk in terms of 'first mafia' and 'second mafia' or 'last mafia' just because of the way that the setup works. I guess just a phrase I'd picked up and had never thought about until now.

[Trendall]

it is just a simple opinion that should not be heavily trifled with.

There's nothing in the way of 'opinion' going on, it's just a turn of phrase that doesn't mean anything in terms of any deeper thinking process.

[Trendall]

Do you think I'm mafia, Trendal ?

Yes, I said already.

[Trendall]

There is no 'omgus', I didn't vote for you because you voted me, I voted for you for the reasons that I stated.

[Trendall]

Well, reason, whatever.

[Trendall]

If it helps, the past three newbie games I've been in I was on a wagon which eliminated mafia day one, two of which were probably started by me on the basis of ostensibly little information. In Newbie 2035 I vote for a player on the basis that they'd presented a meta argument against somebody, but I'd already checked their posts at the beginning of the game and they'd said in other games that 'meta is garbage' and so on, which is just a slam dunk 'this person is mafia', and then the way that player responded to my bringing this up sorta made it clear that I was correct.

So it would make sense from my perspective because I do it all the time.

[Trendall]

How do you mean?

[Trendall]

How do you think I would talk if I were mafia?

[Trendall]

I imagine you being more harsh, in the sense that you would need to convey to others that I was already obvious to you, so nothing I said would matter in the game.

Haha it's funny because I do that as town.

It is very hard, even with scum SE's, to eliminate another fellow SE D1, so scum Trendall is making a bad push considering there are many other LHF options to attack.

I have done it before in Newbie 2035. They claimed doctor, had no counterclaim and they still got eliminated day one. But then for me personally I make no distinction whatsoever between the SEs and the other players in this game. I think an 'SE' is somebody who has played five or more games of this, which means nothing.

[Trendall]

clidd, what is your reason for thinking that I'm mafia? Is it still that I said 'hello' or has it evolved since then?

[Trendall]

It is an opinion of terms, I mean. The majority of mafia players do not refer to scum in this way, so I consider it a opinion that some have developed, but whether it is a opinion or a "turn of phrase" as you say, we shall not trifle with this any longer.

We shall, the use of the word 'opinion' here makes no sense whatsoever.

[Trendall]

For example in England we call dogs 'dogs', and in Spain I think they call them 'perros' or 'perras'. This isn't a 'difference of opinion', it's just...not everybody uses the same words.

[Trendall]

Fair

[Trendall]

I think somewhere on page three, I remembered that there is a problem with my initial argument in that there's actually very little in common with what I think 'meta' is and what other people think 'meta' is apparently, and then as soon as I remember that then my point is null. I need to think about clidd and have a good night's sleep possibly, but unvotin'.

UNVOTE:

[Trendall]

I seriously want to have a talk with you, but such a off-topic argument gets in the way quickly and before you know it we are deathtunneling each other.

It's not 'off-topic' because the reason it was brought up in the first place was that clidd thought it was an indicator that I was mafia.

[Trendall]

If you were able to push a SE to be hanged D1,

Well, let's have a look at the SEs this game. Two of them when asked how good they are at scumhunting said '3-4 out of 10', and the remaining one said 'how would I know?'

I don't know why people think SEs are these big scary things. It's someone who's played five or more games of this, that's it.

[Trendall]

I don't understand why that would raise the likelihood of my being mafia if it's the case that I don't make any real conscious distinction between SEs and the other players.

[Trendall]

But that makes an equal difference to the chances of my being town and going for a clidd elimination, no?

[Trendall]

Oh god, I just realised, I thought ben dover123 was an SE for some reason. Apparently he's not. I'm going to have to bloody reread all of that now.

[Trendall]

In this case, ben dover123 was talking about everything to do with SEs as though he is an authority on them, so then if he's not an SE I can't work out where that comes from. But I just looked into this and apparently they have SEs on the other forum as well.

[Trendall]

@above that is the correct usage of meta

In the same way that your use of the word 'opinion' was correct?

[Trendall]

Haha you agreed to that.

[Trendall]

I don't make any distinction between SEs and the other players in the game, the label 'SE' means absolutely nothing to me. I judge how competent somebody is at the game by how competent they are at the game, not by whether they're an SE or not.

[Trendall]

Then what does this post stand for?

You said 'we shall not' and I said 'we shall'

[Trendall]

You know how like...the way that you write, you'll be in the middle of a sentence and

then there's a paragraph break. What's the deal with

that?

[Trendall]

Do you understand my viewpoint on how this opens my eyes to a scenario where you are scum pushing an SE elimination? That is the important part of my post, I already understand that you believe the "SE" tag is just a label.

I understand it, it's just that examples of me wanting to eliminate an SE on day one as town from past games are plentiful. So it's like, I'd do this as town and I'd also do this as mafia. Therefore my doing it isn't a reliable indicator of my alignment at all, it's null information.

[Trendall]

I am so bloody confused

[Trendall]

I mean I illustrated it like that because I have no idea what's going on there and I wasn't even sure if you yourself were aware that that formatting error was taking place so it just makes it clearer, I can't see what about that is 'mocking'.

[Trendall]

And it was an on-topic question because I needed to work out whether it was a good use of my time or not looking at that for breadcrumbs.

Don't worry, I get it. Actually I can't bear hurting people's feelings, if I ever do I feel bad about it for like three days.

[Trendall]

Actually I can't bear hurting people's feelings

Which begs the question as to why I choose to write in such a blunt and abrupt manner I guess but whatever

[Trendall]

Goodnight!

[Trendall]

I meant to ask clidd if there was any particular reason why he thinks ben is town because I could do with a second opinion on that.

[Trendall]

In terms of ben 'trying to look town' or whatever, I used to find on epicmafia that if a person ever starts to complains about things being off-topic, the chances of them being mafia are pretty high. Wouldn't know if the same applies on forum mafia though, I suspect it doesn't.

[Trendall]

omg I just wrote out a post and now I've lost it somehow.

Essentially I think clidd's analysis of ben is really reasonable. Thinking along the same lines of me, in that there is some unusual behaviour there, but nothing particularly suspicious in alignment terms given that all of it can explained away by 'this is a type of person' and also the fact that they usually play on another forum.

Chumbo is most likely to be mafia here, as they're complaining about ben trying to 'look town' while at the same time complaining about 'this guy isn't posting enough!' and 'this guy hasn't answered my question!' (please nobody interpret this post as an answer to Chumbo's question). Classic mafia stuff - easy, obvious, and irrelevant things to pick up and complain about.

NotAJumbleOfNumbers if anything is the towniest player in the game so far, but it's all very marginal, like nothing's happened so far this game which is fine.

VOTE: Chumbo

[Trendall]

Why declare that it doesn't make sense before you've found out what the answer is?

[Trendall]

not talking about anything related to the gamestate or other people. I'm not sure how to comprehend this as I'd expect they would make at least a couple comments over everyone else too.

People say this about me when I'm town all the time. Like 'oh I would have expected Trendall to be engaging with other players in the game, asking questions'. Why? What makes you think I would be the type of person who behaves that way?

NotAJumbleOfNumbers was fine with off-topic conversation, I don't see this from mafia-sided players too often.

[Trendall]

It is Chumbo's first game, I forgot that. So yeah, could be.

[Trendall]

This 'my case is coming soon! i'm building a case. i have some information! all will be revealed in due course!' is sketchy af.

It reminds me of when Michael Avenatti was in the news all the time with like, 'I've got hard evidence! it's coming! any day now!'. He had nothing. Do you know where is now? Under house arrest after coming out of prison for tax evasion, extortion, fraud and embezzlement. Sketchy behaviour.

[Trendall]

It seems to me that Trendall overreacted to clidd's original vote. I don't think clidd's vote was serious at all, and I'm wondering why Trendall seemed to think it was serious.

Maybe you overreacted to my post and actually I wasn't too serious about it and was just doing general day one stuff.

[Trendall]

he wanted the evidence shown early.

Didn't say this at any point

[Trendall]

I infer that you believed the information wasn't coming at all

No, actually I just thought it'd be like, not worth waiting for. I haven't had time to read properly yet but what I read was decent actually.

[Trendall]

he explained that he thought my ISO on clidd was going to be crappy info

I didn't explain any such thing because it wasn't your 'ISO on clidd', it was your 'evidence' generally that I was suspicious of. I said nothing about clidd.

[Trendall]

It's not unnecessary if I'm pointing out I didn't say something that I'm being accused of saying, because some other person might make a wrong read off of the back of it

Actually I'm gonna switch back to clidd though on the basis of how hard he's trying to pocket ben dover123. And also we don't need like 5 separate wagons with one person each on them right now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: clidd

[Trendall]

Rockhopper's entrance, on the other hand, rang some bells.

Lol actually yeah I just looked at that and it does look really rough

[Trendall]

Hmph. I still feel like people could infer that "ISO on clidd" is basically a more descriptive term of "evidence", but oh well.

This has nothing to do with the fact that I didn't say anything resembling what you said I said.

[Trendall]

Actually you were saying 'I have evidence about Trendall's alignment' and I thought 'oh for god's sake here we go...', I wasn't thinking about clidd at all.

[Trendall]

Cause it looked like u were gonna try to build a maf case against me because why else does someone like...announce 'coming soon, my reads!' instead of just like....I dunno posting them. Like it was too theatrical but then you thought I was town so I wasn't bothered.

[Trendall]

Have you read it back? Sheesh.

However around iso 7 you get a lot better, I did mean to mention that just above but got distracted by another ben dover123 post.

[Trendall]

LavarManos's posts are decent.

[Trendall]

At this point then I think both mafia are most likely within Chumbo, clidd and Battle Mage.

[Trendall]

Just the tone is mafia tone (very hard to elaborate on it when it's just tone based) but it's not important because when you start getting into the actual stuff you read a lot better.

[Trendall]

Well I was assuming that the mafias were in the afk people, but their replacements seem nice, so you went back to being more likely to be mafia I'm like rly sorry

[Trendall]

[Trendall]

How come?

[Trendall]

How come?

Oh this was meant to be a response to 'clidd is probably town' lol

[Trendall]

Cause it loaded at the bottom of page 12 and I didn't realise there was an extra page.

[Trendall]

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

[Trendall]

Yeah ben dover123 seems to have misunderstood the conversation that Rockhopper and I had or something.

[Trendall]

cliddd n' LoneMarkhor top mafia suspects.

[Trendall]

They are town masons?

How did you arrive at this?

[Trendall]

Wouldn't have thought it makes a difference because it sounds to me as though that's just a wild stab in the dark.

[Trendall]

So, Chumbo also notices where I am coming from against Rock here. Well, I feel reassured now.

I mean Chumbo could easily be the mafia.

[Trendall]

You don't think Rock's posts are likely scum?

No why would I?

[Trendall]

Yeah I saw that post, but in terms of Rockhopper I haven't really seen much reason to think that he's mafia at the moment.

[Trendall]

Lel. Heavy town pings from LoneMarkhor for saying that.

Oh yeah I agree with this btw

[Trendall]

At what point did I say that 'clidd is my only scumread'? I don't have 'scumreads', I said already that the mafia is between clidd, Chumbo and Battle Mage cause everyone else seems town.

[Trendall]

In post #277, then LoneMarkhor looked more suspicious, then he looked more towny again so it went back to those three.

[Trendall]

I have a very, very solid reason to keep my vote.

No you don't.

it is a absolutely terrible vote compared to everyone else's.

No it isn't it's literally the same vote that you are making.

[Trendall]

If you think that the guy is mafia then there's no reason you should be so bothered by the other guy voting for him as well. If you are then it begs the question of why you are voting for him.

[Trendall]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Rock is mafia trolling us.

It's a possibility, but I don't think that's what's going on there, I think he's a town trolling ben.

[Trendall]

Cute

[Trendall]

I just think it's hilarious that somebody presented a post analysing their own posts to show that they're not biased.

[Trendall]

If no one is going to confirm that not all the points are biased

Maybe you're just wrong about it

[Trendall]

clidd keeps making arguments he should know better than

[Trendall]

It is not because I am not actively posted in the game that I am not reading the events and slots.

I never said it was

[Trendall]

Mafia know what their roles are, so if he knows that there are just two mafia goons then he has a one in three chance of getting away with it and a two in three chance of outing some other power role.

[Trendall]

I can't work out the town motivation for claiming so early?

[Trendall]

Yeah so as mafia you sacrifice yourself to out a pr.

[Trendall]

Mafia can do that without claiming.

But yeah, I understand what you're saying.

How would you do it?

[Trendall]

I don't see why town would claim when they only have two votes on them, that's the problem I'm having.

[Trendall]

Also he's never getting eliminated is he so he doesn't even has to sacrifice himself at all necessarily.

[Trendall]

I think I already contextualized the scenario.

I mean if I were you I would have made up something about it being near the deadline and wanting to avoid a no elimination or whatever.

This isn't true imo, but ok.

As soon as somebody wants to eliminate you, ben dover123 will pop up and say

"Wait, what? :thonk: You seriously want to eliminate an unccd pr? smh"

and given how schmoozey you've been with him it wouldn't surprise me if that was what you were banking on.

[Trendall]

Maybe I'm just expecting too much of clidd I dunno.

[Trendall]

Wait, actually, it is. I would claim I get to E-1

Yeah I meant like, you're never getting eliminated after having claimed doctor. Before I'm not sure about.

[Trendall]

Can't say I have looked at any of your past games, you just seemed to know what you were doing at the day start.

[Trendall]

That was ben's thing not mine.

[Trendall]

I'm not finding it easy, and like actually I'm just waiting for everyone to talk so we know if anyone ccs or not, so I don't mind killing time doing this in the meantime.

[Trendall]

And I think I've just had two games, Newbie 2035 and Newbie 2039 where a mafia claimed doctor day 1 and got eliminated day 1. And every time ppl are asking me 'why would mafia take that risk of claiming doctor' but I'm sure that's just like...the strategy lol.

[Trendall]

A difference being that in both of those cases I guess they were at L-1, but like I say, I find claiming so early there odd as either town or mafia.,

[Trendall]

so I don't really fakeclaim as mafia tbh.

I would basically have believed this if it didn't have 'tbh' written after it but that always throws me off. Not terribly confident but you're probably telling the truth here.

Who wants to get Chumbo?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chumbo

[Trendall]

yeah this is getting boring

Dunno how you hung in there for that long lol

[Trendall]

To me he's town and that's just a waste of an elimination.

[Trendall]

That's a guarantee I can give at the very least.

You can't guarantee this when there are eight other players in the game whose behaviour you have no control over.

[Trendall]

Haha

[Trendall]

I mean I think you're like, blatant town, so...

[Trendall]

I mean I think you're like, blatant town, so...

Directed at rockhopper

[Trendall]

I think town should trust their humble doctor and let him lead a wagon right now.

Depends who you wanna lead it on.

[Trendall]

There's a problem with clidd isn't there in that he identifies himself as '3-4 out of 10' at scumhunting but then makes comments like this -

10/10 reads lol

[Trendall]

is it silly to think there's scum on my wagon based on how easy/comfortable it is?

I reckon both of them are on it.

[Trendall]

Yeah I know but why would you make such a joke if you're not terribly confident in your own abilities?

[Trendall]

I really dislike this push from trendall on the claimed doctor. The doctor claim will be tested at night, and trendall should know better as an SE.VOTE: trendall

Again I did exactly this in Newbie 2035 and was correct.

[Trendall]

I definitely remember unvoting and voting for Chumbo as well.

[Trendall]

Say, what do you think of Lavar's vote?

I ultimately just don't agree with them but I find their vote and reasoning reasonable. In that yeah, it could be that somebody's tried to double bluff by acting scummy and then hoping this will make everybody think they are 'miselimination bait' or whatever and they get a town read off of the back of it. In reality I think they were town who found ben dover123 exasperating and just didn't care.

[Trendall]

Overreaction much?

Yeah, people are townreading clidd out of

gut

. I'm outraged by this.

I'm pissed. Just. plain. pissed. Rock is really triggering me right now from his responses. I'm taking a break after this.

Uhhhhhhhhhh...

Did you not see this?

Rockhopper looks like scum who is trying to be seen as too scummy.
VOTE: Rockhopper

Woah woah woah lavar take it done a full notch.

Rock is E-1 now.

I want Lavar to take his vote back right now, it is a absolutely terrible vote compared to everyone else's.

If you cannot see the difference here, you are officially blind.

Don't gimme this "Oh, we can fix all of this over time/Oh, I will become more towny over time" bullcrap.

Double Pedit: ...You know what, forget it. I'm done. If no one is going to confirm that not all the points are biased, then I'm gone. Goodnight.

Hi Lunar Martian, welcome to the game, don't worry it's him not you.

[Trendall]

I think it lacks explanation to place Rock at E-1, but I suppose that may be how they just play. I think that E-1 votes have to be good, because that puts a possible miselim in hammer range, which is bad.

Yeah I mean me for example, I don't care much about 'E-1' stuff. I wouldn't be voting for somebody if I didn't want them to be eliminated.

[Trendall]

Can we not put me out of context here.

It doesn't require any context to illustrate that it is absurd for you of all people to accuse somebody else of an 'overreaction'.

[Trendall]

Oh yeah I forgot to say, I think Battle Mage is the other mafia now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Battle Mage

[Trendall]

But I'm really working under the assumption that clidd is maf so we'll see how that pans out.

[Trendall]

But I mean Battle Mage says he's in too many games anyway so let's help him out with that one.

[Trendall]

But isn't rockhopper more suspicious?I mean now it seems

Yeah dw I think virtually everyone thinks so other than me.

[Trendall]

As if he was scum trying to seem town by being too agressive?

That's what LavarManos's argument was essentially, yeah. And as far as I could work out everybody else's basis for it was essentially 'he is acting odd so he is mafia'.

[Trendall]

You think he is acting odd so he is town?

I think that people act odd all over the internet and in real life all of the time. But in the vast majority of cases these people acting odd aren't even playing a game of mafia in the first place, so 'odd behaviour' can't exactly be an indicator of any particular alignment.

Just for clarification as well I don't think Rockhopper was even acting odd at all, that just seemed to be the perception from other people.

[Trendall]

Question: why is clidd lying?

He's mafia

[Trendall]

so I'm at like E-2 because apparently I'm not "taking the game seriously" and "going to coast and do nothing" despite being VLA for weekend and then coming back and posting lots of analysis and thoughts last night, with the promise of finishing the 2nd half of my read-through tonight?

either people with unrealistic activity standards or just not reading what I have posted and cruising on an outdated "BM is absent" read.

If I ain't dead, I'll be back tonight.

so I'm at like E-2 because apparently I'm not "taking the game seriously" and "going to coast and do nothing" despite being VLA for weekend and then coming back and posting lots of analysis and thoughts last night, with the promise of finishing the 2nd half of my read-through tonight? either people with unrealistic activity standards or just not reading what I have posted and cruising on an outdated "BM is absent" read. If I ain't dead, I'll be back tonight.

I don't think any of this btw, that's not why I'm voting you. I honestly just think people should leave each other alone to post whenever they like, and if there's a problem the moderator can deal with it. I said in one of the bigger games, it was actually hard to get a word in edgeways in between the relentless stream of posts complaining about people not providing enough content.

[Trendall]

Why would you work under this assumption? What would change in your eyes if clidd isn't mafia?

Because clidd is by far the most disingenuous person in the game right now. If he's not mafia then that would mean mafia is somewhere within the remaining seven players from my perspective.

[Trendall]

Cause I'd rather not lynch a doctor claim right now.

[Trendall]

I understand that, but why use clidd!scum as a basis for your current PoE?

Because I think that he's the most likely player to be mafia.

[Trendall]

A doctor cannot target themselves, so that can't self-protect, I just looked this up on the wiki.

[Trendall]

I still don't get this chain of logic. You think clidd is most likely player to be mafia, but you still don't want to eliminate him because he is a uncontested doctor claim? I thought you chased your SR's really hard...

No I go after people in proportion to the degree of confidence that I have in my reads I think, and with this one I'm aware that I could have got this whole game completely upside down and wrong so far right now, so I'd rather just get a villager.

[Trendall]

Realistically, people make mistakes like that all the time. However, how many people have ever played a game of mafia, either on this forum or anywhere else, where the doctor can protect themselves? Like I don't think I've ever come across that.

[Trendall]

I was testing reactions

Lol, no.

[Trendall]

And there is a small chance that both maf were newbies that didn't know much about roles, so I could live N1.

Plausible, but then why didn't you preempt me or somebody else correcting you?

[Trendall]

C'mon, can we just stop tripping over our own feets? we are regressing in the game.

Hey that's what a mafia would say if they wanted to draw attention off of them.

Also, maybe I'm just pretending I think you're maf because I'm 'testing for reactions' of how other ppl respond to it lololo

[Trendall]

Also you're the one who claimed doctor in the first place out of nowhere and now you don't want anybody to talk about it? Could have just not claimed y'know?

[Trendall]

It's not 'bias', people had a maf read on you before you claimed, that is supposedly why you claimed apparently.

[Trendall]

LOL, that's a 200 IQ move.

It's not what I'm doing though, I think you're maf I'm just like, satirising your 'I got the setup wrong because I was testing for reactions' thing

[Trendall]

who knows what would happen at E-1.

I can tell you, You would have claimed doctor and it would have been a more believable claim.

[Trendall]

So you think I got the setup wrong?

No 'setup' is just lazy wording on my part, I meant that you said that doctor can self-protect when it can't.

[Trendall]

Because you're more likely to actually be the final elimination at that point, whereas at the point you claimed, it's like there are still days left, there are votes on different people, the final elimination could conceivably ended up being anybody so there was no need for you to claim.

[Trendall]

I'm actually helping you, guys.

Like this to me is just obvious maf stuff.

[Trendall]

This is simply not correct. I spoke to the mod and he said that there would be no extension of the deadline, so it is very likely that near the end there would be some sudden change to my slot, forcing me to claim, but denying talk time between me and you(plural).

I mean

right now

we still have four days left so it's just not plausible that you were this scared of being eliminated that far away from the deadline.

[Trendall]

By calling out earlier, I avoid this scenario and provide my opinions (of a PR, clear, by the way).

You are absolutely nowhere near clear.

[Trendall]

And can you explain this ^

You called me the most disingenuous person in the game for no reason.

Because you're lying about being clear and pretending that you don't know how doctor works.

Ok, so you can read minds.

No but I can take an educated guess. This is a spectacularly bad comeback.

[Trendall]

So testing reaction and being clear by 90%=being disingenuous, alright.

'Testing reactions' is a very common post-justification for a person when they get caught out.

And '90% clear' is mafspeak, someone's either clear or they're not.

[Trendall]

Yeah after you didn't take to that he backed down with it.

[Trendall]

Town eliminated a mafia by doing that in Newbie 2035, it can work.

[Trendall]

Ok can we do it this way? I'm cop so we won't get clidd for now and he can 'protect' me. We'll get someone else.

That means either I get an investigation tonight, or I die tonight and clidd is mafia and that's one down (don't let him try to convince you with any wifom stuff lol)

It's my first time playing cop and I don't know how obvious I've been, but I can't imagine I've hidden it terribly well and I think either way I'll be a good nightkill target, and if clidd is doc he probably wouldn't have protected me. So that's why I'm claiming.

[Trendall]

If clidd is maf he will have worked out I'm cop anyway

[Trendall]

You're going to get roleblocked

I did forget about that but I'm banking on it being C1 anyway. If it's not then it's still not terrible.

[Trendall]

Hm yea so I might have screwed that up actually but whatever

[Trendall]

So yeah actually I'll just die and it'll still not be clear at all whether clidd is mafia or not lol, oops.

[Trendall]

Yeah absolutely that's my fault

[Trendall]

In that case then, let's get clidd.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: clidd

[Trendall]

I was doing aight until I claimed but I just totally forgot about roleblocker omg

[Trendall]

Yeah hardcore mode.

[Trendall]

Like I've never not drawn vanilla townie in this setup so I've not had to think too much about setup stuff before, omg I am so embarrassed lmao

[Trendall]

UNVOTE: clidd

We need more time to think

We really don't, we need to put the game to night to like...stop everybody lmao. Honestly clidd is like wifom hell now so he needs to be the elimination.

[Trendall]

So I apologize, if we lose because of that.

Well you could be maf who has just y'know, done their job and successfully outed me but I

swear down

you wouldn't have got away with that if I'd had just remembered how the bloody setup works lol.

[Trendall]

So I apologize, if we lose because of that.

And then if you're town this is like way more my fault now, although the early doc claim did just completely throw me off.

Or we could just agree that we both did all of this to test for reactions so that town has lots of information and an easy time find the mafia tomorrow.

[Trendall]

I mean, I'm not doing wifom.

No it's not that you're doing anything, it's that if you're left alive, which you will be, it's like, is it the setup with doc and cop, or is it just the setup with doc?

[Trendall]

Setup C1 tho

[Trendall]

Like on paper it's 50/50 whether we're in the setup with a doc or without one, like wifom but it was generally agreed that the guy is scummy.

[Trendall]

I didn't read ben's case buy clidd's responses recently have been v bad. Even he will admit to it as you see.

[Trendall]

It was a terrible vote but honestly can everybody just stay on one wagon which is the clidd one, because otherwise this day's never going to end.

[Trendall]

Like Lunar Martian, I get that that was scummy as shit from ben but you're not going to get four other people to vote for him in time.

[Trendall]

Again you gave a wrong answer to the doc question, pretended to be clear when you're not. Then when called out on this you said you were 'testing for reactions' and walked back and said you are '90% clear', all of this is just common maf stuff.

[Trendall]

I really wanna get clidd just so that it's like, a fresh start with seven villagers tomorrow and there's no ambiguity about setup or roles, it'll be way easier that way.

[Trendall]

Plus he's maf

[Trendall]

No because if you're maf I dunno if town will ever eliminate you. They're reluctant to eliminate you now even tho you've outed the cop.

[Trendall]

ben just completely screwing this up now

[Trendall]

No I made one error.

[Trendall]

Albiet a massive one lol but still

[Trendall]

Albeit*

[Trendall]

Nah clidd's my final vote today.

[Trendall]

Nothing remotely wrong with any of those posts or those posts considered as a whole. Vote someone else.

[Trendall]

I told him strictly to stop spamming one liners

He can do what he likes

[Trendall]

Vote clidd

[Trendall]

you are not helping. the only one that is saving the game right now is ben, and you should listen to him

clidd maf tryna pocket ben again

[Trendall]

clidd & battle mage is my final guess, you guys can take it from here but feel free to ask me anything.

[Trendall]

because they feel bad that they made a mistake?

It wasn't a disastrous mistake because I don't think I would have survived many nights anyway, just a dumb one, but I really just think that the mafia's clidd and if nobody agrees with me then there's only so much I can do.

[Trendall]

Why BM?

If clidd isn't mafia then this game makes no sense and I have absolutely no idea. So working on the assumption that clidd is mafia -

LoneMarkor, Rockhopper, and Lunar Martian are three people I haven't seen anything from that would make me think they're mafia, so let's say that I think they're town. (also, Lunar and Lone were clidd's first two choices for elimination so they're probably town, and then I think he put his partner as a third 'if I can't get those two', but like that's complete wifom or something so ignore it)

ben dover123 and Lavarmanos to me are two players who are like, an outside possibility of being mafia.

Leaving me with Chumbo and Battle Mage. I forget what my argument was against Chumbo and I'm sure it was great, but I think what's more likely is that the plan was that clidd would carry the first half of the game with the doc thing and then Battle Mage could take over later on in the game when he's more available. In that case it would make sense for Battle Mage to be voting clidd early on to cover for himself later.

Pretty aware rn that this could just be one of those games where I'm spectacularly wrong, but that's how I'm seeing it.

[Trendall]

It's not 'bias' it's just like...my read, that's what my read is. Regarding me 'getting too heated' which isn't happening, I refer you back to post #590. It's not me, it's just you projecting that onto me.

[Trendall]

you definitely need to take it down a whole notch.

I didn't do anything heated or unreasonable, but if it's your view that I did (lol), then I have 'taken it down a notch' because I just said like...these are who I think the mafia are and you guys can take it from there. You just can't seem to accept that clidd is the person that I think is mafia, so of course I'm going to want him to be eliminated. clidd is just the obvious elimination target at this point, even he said himself he's been acting like mafia all game, so it's not unreasonable for me to have that read.

[Trendall]

[quote="In post 882, ben dover123"I'm saying that you obviously need to just cool off a bit over your clidd read[/quote]

Again you're just projecting your own mental state onto me.

[Trendall]

Noooo I got my quote tags wrong.

[Trendall]

is an example that you need to start looking at the side where it is possible that clidd is town.

I already did that and it's just weak compared to the side where he's mafia, what makes you think I haven't thought about this?

[Trendall]

Trendall can still work with Ben

Again if he's going to accuse me of like 'needing to cool down' or something when I can't work out what I have done that would suggest that I am remotely excited about this game other than being slightly embarrassed about claiming when I shouldn't have (which I'd never be too embarrassed about because it's just like...an extremely on brand mistake for me to make, I'm just scatty like that), then it's just disorienting and I can't be bothered lol

[Trendall]

then I'll just quit here.

So again, it's definitely not that you're projecting your own uncooledoffness onto me and actually it's me who needs to cool off here right?

[Trendall]

If you are just going to keep on steamrolling through a clidd elimination

Plus I already said I wasn't going to do this and I was gonna let you guys figure it out so like...what have I even done here?

[Trendall]

You are still hard advocating a clidd elim over anything that anyone else says, that's what I meant.

Because he's my top read for mafia, of course. What do you want me to do, make arguments against the person I think is sixth most likely to be mafia instead?

[Trendall]

But I think clidd is mafia so why would I do that?

[Trendall]

Like why would I waste time constructing arguments that I don't believe in myself?

[Trendall]

No I'm not 100% certain, I can't think of a situation where I ever would be, and there's no way that that can be reasonably inferred from what I've said. I'm just confident enough that this would be my final choice for who to eliminate today. If ppl don't agree they can vote someone else and it's as simple as that. Some guy in an epicmafia graveyard made a comment about me once which I really liked - something along the lines of 'this is classic Trendall, he had the mafia figured out at the start of the day and now is just overthinking his way out of it'. At some point you have to reach a final decision rather than just allowing yourself to confuse yourself through information overload or analysis paralysis. I've reached that point and you're just not understanding it and instead are attributing it to me being like...not thinking about the game rationally or something.

I'm not remotely afraid of being wrong, if I'm wrong I'm wrong, it happens, why would I care?

[Trendall]

The guy lied about doctor self-protecting, claimed doctor bizarrely early, tried to make out as though he was clear when he wasn't, can't stay consistent as to whether he's not in the mood to play or wants to do serious analysis. Tried to post-justify by pretending he was joking or trolling or whatever and now he's gonna take it seriously. He's doing everything he can to pocket ben dover123. His maf reads are on people I think are town. I can make sense of who his partner would be and why. He claimed doctor day one - I've been in two games very recently where the mafia claimed doctor day one so he's just like...carrying out the maf strategy as I'd expect somebody to at this point. After a point it's just like 'yeah I've seen enough it's probably this guy who's mafia' and there's absolutely no point in thinking about it more than that because you'll just overthink urself into oblivion.

[Trendall]

I'm usually paranoid over my reads and I make backup scumteams just in case something fails along the way.

I don't need to do this though because I'm getting nightkilled tonight. If I was alive at the start of tomorrow I re-evaluate again based on the flips and choice of night-kill, that's how I play the game.

[Trendall]

Maybe you are that careless type that thinks

No if I get something wrong in a game I look back and analyse after the game and try to figure out where I went wrong and specifically what I should have done differently.

[Trendall]

God am I getting pocketed

Yeah to the extent that you're going around telling people what to do like 'you, space out your text! you, give me a reads list now!' just because he said a thing about you having leadership skills at the beginning of the game. He got you so hard.

[Trendall]

Mmm, yeah some people do play the game like this. I'm just the kind of guy to make a accurate read first try. It seems that you are the kind of guy to set your stance and then re-analyze for potential mistakes later.

I'd rather get it right first time cause I'm vain, but honestly with these games I think that most stuff that happens is null information, so my reads can suddenly change if new data comes in or whatever. I'm aware of my tendency to just have too many possibilities floating around in my head and confusing myself and doubting myself too much, so since I started playing these forum games again I've been trying to not let that happen and it seems to have been working out a lot better than when I played in the past.

[Trendall]

Like the three past newbie games I played, every one of those I can look at and think to myself 'yeah, if I'd had analysed too much more there I could easily have talked myself out of decent reads'. Or I just got lucky or something, that's always a possibilty, but I'd need to play more games to know.

[Trendall]

I can't tell you because clidd told me to stop talking

[Trendall]

Also he said that we should all just like...forget about him and assume he's town and go off that basis, which is a totally towny thing to say so we should just do that.

[Trendall]

Omg I typed a post out and posted it and now it's not showing up.

Said something along the lines of...are you getting the picture, I'm not 'biased', I haven't thrown all of my toys out of the pram voting him out of frustration or any such things. He's just done a lot of things by now that indicate that he is likely to be mafia, considerably more than any of the other players in the game. Hence why I think it's better to eliminate him than to leave him alive and allow him to direct the eliminations.

[Trendall]

'you don't know that yet' again this is just mafspeak, don't bother I'm not going to get phased by something like this.

[Trendall]

I can give you the feeling of hammering your doctor as cop, if you want.

Makes no difference to me, I'm playing a game of forum mafia to kill time. If I'm right I'm right, if I'm wrong I'm wrong, I wouldn't care about the game on a personal level in the way you're suggesting here.