Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[Rockhopper]

what's up townsfolk of 2043

[Rockhopper]

so who's scum?

[Rockhopper]

UNVOTE:

[Rockhopper]

im doing fine bendover, love your name btw

[Rockhopper]

Where I'm from, artofproblemsolving.com, we use RQS since our profiles do not reveal gender and specific questions like that. Here are some questions I'd like to ask everyone.

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?

2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?

3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?

1) third. i was town both times
2) im neutral
4) i'd say a 11 but thats just me being humble ig

[Rockhopper]

jk maybe 2.5

[Rockhopper]

Also, one more question: How active are you going to be this game?

hopefully pretty active

[Rockhopper]

VOTE: Lavarmanos
that's the first scum

[Rockhopper]

VOTE: Lavarmanos
that's the first scum

Incorrect, and it would be helpful if you gave reasoning.

I'm sorry about my inactivity, I wasn't expecting the game to move as quickly as it has. And from my pov the game started wednesday night, so I didn't think missing 1 full day would be as detrimental as it has been.

I am going to do a full re-read tomorrow morning, but my preliminary reads are that Ben and Chumbo are the most likely town, based on Ben's proactiveness and well thought out reasoning, as well as his change of stance on Chumbo. My view on Chumbo is similar to his, I think he was genuine in his read of Ben. Trendall I could go either way on. clidd gives a a bit of a scumread, but this is entirely based on gut alone. Everyone else hasn't posted enough to get any kind of read on.

I will do my best to get back to anyone's questions tonight if they ask any, but with the weekend here I should be more active.

That's most probably a scum stance IMO. It's just a reflection of the consensus with lazy reasoning.

[Rockhopper]

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.

And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.

Honestly your earlier interactions with Trendall only strengthens my slight scumread on you. In this series of interactions you claim that there is a tell for "hello" without a vote, he responds with what looked like an omgus vote to me, and then you contradict yourself with your response, claiming that you don't think there is a tell for "hello". So which is it? I need to re-read the thread completely when I have a clearer head, but this seems disingenuous to me. Also, your take on Trendall saying "first mafia" seemed like you were grasping at straws.

It's also pretty scummy to automatically equate contradictions to scumminess. The same argument holds true for a major portion of RVS votes, so if the SR did stem from here, it reinforces my read.

[Rockhopper]

It's also pretty scummy to automatically equate contradictions to scumminess. The same argument holds true for a major portion of RVS votes, so if the SR did stem from here, it reinforces my read.

I disagree with you on this. I think that contradictions, in general, are scum behavior. Scum has to lie and if they don't keep track of their lies, they contradict themselves. clidd did explain himself later, which you can take it or leave it, but I don't think it's scummy to call out a contradiction.

So RVS votes with poor reasoning are inherently scummy?
That's a step town wouldn't miss when using the tell.

[Rockhopper]

Rockhopper's entrance, on the other hand, rang some bells.

Lol actually yeah I just looked at that and it does look really rough

Huh? How did you judge?

[Rockhopper]

So RVS votes with poor reasoning are inherently scummy?

No, I said contradictions are scummy. Never said anything about RVS reasoning.

RVS votes with poor reasoning.

> X is scum for being the second poster (RVS) vote: X
> I don't actually think X is 100% scum for being the second poster

[Rockhopper]

Have you read it back? Sheesh.

Elaborate?

[Rockhopper]

It's strange that Rock came into the game with a very specific view of Pragdoig/Lavar's slot.

I didn't.

[Rockhopper]

Clidd is probably town

[Rockhopper]

Clidd is probably town

[Rockhopper]

gut

[Rockhopper]

Town - {BM, bend, clidd, Trendall, NAJON}
Scum- {Lavar}

[Rockhopper]

In no particular order.

[Rockhopper]

Lavar is scum? How so?

Mainly his predecessor. I don't think Lavar's posts come from town more often than not.

[Rockhopper]

In no particular order.

Wait, so you have no highest townread?

No

[Rockhopper]

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

[Rockhopper]

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

No, I'm not sure what to make of you yet. Rereading.

Interesting. You are now a scum lean.

[Rockhopper]

Replied

Spoiler: Rockhopper's bad reads

That's most probably a scum stance IMO. It's just a reflection of the consensus with lazy reasoning.

This is Rockhopper overlooking a case of newbie town.

It's also pretty scummy to automatically equate contradictions to scumminess. The same argument holds true for a major portion of RVS votes, so if the SR did stem from here, it reinforces my read.

I disagree with you on this. I think that contradictions, in general, are scum behavior. Scum has to lie and if they don't keep track of their lies, they contradict themselves. clidd did explain himself later, which you can take it or leave it, but I don't think it's scummy to call out a contradiction.

So RVS votes with poor reasoning are inherently scummy?
That's a step town wouldn't miss when using the tell.

Wait a fricking minute here. So first you say that Pragdoid automatically equated contradictions to scumminess, then Chumbo makes a really good point, and now you say that Pragdoid's SR on clidd stems from an RVS vote with poor reasoning? Just what.
Also, clidd's contradiction was weird. He contradicted himself on

the same page

. I can't believe he already forgot that he used "hello" as a tell to SR Trendall.

Am I wrong to think that one is a subset of the other? The 'contradiction' is NAI, the same way it's NAI to give a completely random reason (which isn't seriously thought to be the case) to substantiate an RVS vote.

Rockhopper's entrance, on the other hand, rang some bells.

Lol actually yeah I just looked at that and it does look really rough

Huh? How did you judge?

It takes like half a brain to realize how bad this attack on Lavar is. smh

Except the discussion was about my entrance, before my vote on Lavar.

So RVS votes with poor reasoning are inherently scummy?

No, I said contradictions are scummy. Never said anything about RVS reasoning.

RVS votes with poor reasoning.

> X is scum for being the second poster (RVS) vote: X
> I don't actually think X is 100% scum for being the second poster

Wait, weren't we talking about contradictions? When did this become a talk about RVS votes? Anyways, I feel like there is still a contradiction in that sequence of events. I'd like to bring up clidd's post again:

We still are. I'm pointing out how a certain subset is NAI.

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.

And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.

"I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia" sounds like "saying hello does not confirm someone to be mafia". Then why use your RVS vote on him instead of me? I had some awkward behavior in Page 1...

So, it sounds like some contradiction is in play here. "confirms" doesn't mean "100%", you know.

[Rockhopper]

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

:thonk: Bad reads =/= scummy. This should be pretty simple to understand.

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

No, I'm not sure what to make of you yet. Rereading.

Interesting. You are now a scum lean.

:thonk: :thonk: :thonk:

Sure, bad reads != scummy in a vacuum, but my readlist in the previous page should appear to be obv!scum to any towny reading it. I state my opinion on how I think it's scummy to go along with the consensus, and immediately proceed to make a polarizing readlist with the most unsubstantiated garbage reads. That should look like maf trying not to contradict themselves while failing to give good reasoning in this context, and the fact that you didn't notice this points to you being scum more often than not due to TMI.

[Rockhopper]

Woah, woah, woah, watch where you swing that TMI hammer around my dude.

Town - {BM, bend, clidd, Trendall, NAJON}
Scum- {Lavar}

This are just bad reads. How many times do I have to say that bad reads =/= you are scum. Also why the actual f*** would you purposely make bad reads. That makes absolutely no sense from a towny perspective.

Seems a bit out of proportion. I did say that I only had a scumlean.
VOTE: bendover123

EBWOP: "This" is supposed to be "These"

Am I wrong to think that one is a subset of the other? The 'contradiction' is NAI, the same way it's NAI to give a completely random reason (which isn't seriously thought to be the case) to substantiate an RVS vote.

Except the discussion was about my entrance, before my vote on Lavar.

We still are. I'm pointing out how a certain subset is NAI.

1. Yes, I will agree that contradiction from newbies over anything that isn't reads is usually NAI, but this is a

SE

who is talking about

reads

. People who have played this long should not have trouble voicing their opinions out and trip over their own words, whether as scum is much more careful and end up contradicting themselves every now and then.

2. :omegalul: Let me state this loud and clear, your entrance was the beginning posts and your vote on Lavar, which was seen as rough.

3. This certain scenario isn't completely NAI though.

2:

Have you read it back? Sheesh.

However around

iso 7

you get a lot better, I did mean to mention that just above but got distracted by another ben dover123 post.

[Rockhopper]

Also why the actual f*** would you purposely make bad reads. That makes absolutely no sense from a towny perspective.

Why not? And how does that matter as a response to my read?

[Rockhopper]

Lol. I was asleep during those 7 hours. I'm from India.

[Rockhopper]

Your AtE is definitely a contributing factor. You seem way to concerned with your image.

[Rockhopper]

I did agree with you about the 'bad reads != scummy' thing. It's just not the case here.

[Rockhopper]

Your AtE is definitely a contributing factor. You seem way to concerned with your image.

Listen, I'm a really chill guy on any given day, but what you have said here is really triggering me very hard.

I did agree with you about the 'bad reads != scummy' thing. It's just not the case here.

Not the case here? wdym by that. Are you really going to say you are scummy because you have bad reads? smh. I'm done.

I should appear to be, yeah.
'gut' is as lazy as it can get.

[Rockhopper]

@above you should appear to be what?
"gut" is as lazy as what can get?

Scummy.
Reason to vote.

[Rockhopper]

You shouldn't be using gut to determine your reason to vote now though, we are 14 pages in with a decent amount of info.

Exactly.

[Rockhopper]

Sure, bad reads != scummy in a vacuum, but my readlist in the previous page should appear to be obv!scum to any towny reading it. I state my opinion on how I think it's scummy to go along with the consensus, and immediately proceed to make a polarizing readlist with the most unsubstantiated garbage reads. That should look like maf trying not to contradict themselves while failing to give good reasoning in this context, and the fact that you didn't notice this points to you being scum more often than not due to TMI.

Why would you go out of your way to try to make something against consensus? And why would we care if you changed your mind about Pragdoid reads if you later realized that they were good reads? I get that you're trying not to contradict yourself, but yeah it really does make you look like mafia.

I didn't change my mind about Pragdoid. That wasn't me going out of my way against consensus.

[Rockhopper]

I can't think of a intention why town would purposely do something like this.

Meh. I'd expect a better analysis from town if they wanted a reads list.

[Rockhopper]

Trendall is my top town read atm

[Rockhopper]

Lel. Heavy town pings from LoneMarkhor for saying that.

[Rockhopper]

They are town masons?

How did you arrive at this?

Probably better if we don't discuss

[Rockhopper]

pagetop

[Rockhopper]

Ruling out {Bend, clidd} and {Lone, Trendall} as the scum teams

[Rockhopper]

Wha..

That's most probably a scum stance IMO. It's just a reflection of the consensus with lazy reasoning.

I call out Pragdoiid for having a generic read followed by lazy reasoning

gut

And my next move is the opposite with lazy reasoning.

[Rockhopper]

Hm. Maybe I did but...

I'm almost convinced Rock is the other scum alongside clidd now, Rock SR'ed me for TMI, an absurdly strong tell, a tell way stronger than anything Rock had against Lavar, and yet all he says is:

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

No, I'm not sure what to make of you yet. Rereading.

Interesting. You are now a scum lean.

No vote, no nothing. His scumlean came nearly

7 hours

before he explained the reasoning, which I assume either he constructed a case against me in those 7 hours because he needed to push me, or his reasoning for the scumlean was already set as TMI. If he constructed a case on the go, that just screams scum trying to progress the push of my miselimination and if he already had his scumlean set as "I had TMI", then him not voting there is indecisive scum who doesn't want to push me here.

He literally admitted to purposely creating a f***** up readlist, which is beyond sub-optimal play for town.

He says "bad reads =/= scummy" in a vacuum? He should know this is blatantly false (from plain experience), as bad reads are not a direct scumtell.

He is using burden of proof to deflect the fact that he is making bad reads.

(burden of proof is a logical fallacy, when used to deflect the person that is using this fallacy is trying to divert attention from one aspect of their argument)

Hm. Is it me or is it just so coincidental that when I start using emotions to pressure him, he leaves the chat? I must say....

VOTE: Rockhopper

clidd's meta case is a good case but this is just actually terrible coming from Rock.

1) I answered this one already. I'm from India.
2) I agree with you that bad reads are generally =/= scummy. It just isn't the case here, I've explained why.
3) I'm not. I didn't think clidd was

probably

town (455). I just asked why something like this never comes from town.
4) Ok? How is that AI?

[Rockhopper]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Rock is mafia trolling us.

lel.

[Rockhopper]

{clidd, Lavar, Chumbo}

[Rockhopper]

Bend is just town with that reaction.

[Rockhopper]

VOTE: Chumbo

[Rockhopper]

What does 1, 2, 3, and 4 answer? I'm not sure if I'm lining each attack up with the right defense.

1. Even so, this doesn't answer much. Why didn't you just vote me when you announced I was a scumlean, when the reasoning you had was TMI?

2. Lets settle this. Originally when you posted your readlist, I thought that it was just a bad readlist and so bad reads =/= scummy and it wasn't AI to me. I thought likely you were still reading through the whole game. But then you announced later that your intentions with that readlist was to purposely make it bad, therefore I have no clue why you would do this from a towny motivation. So bad reads =/= scummy, but purposely making bad reads? That's just straight up wacky.

3. Wait, what does this answer?

4. Burden of proof is not AI in general, but when used to deflect it is scummy. Imagine this:

Person A: I believe Person B is scum for these reasons: <insert reasons here>

Person C: But why is Person B not town?

That is like a very simple form of burden of proof. Obviously, in this scenario it's way easier to see that Person C is likely scum with Person B, and this basically is what you were doing on a much more basic level and with different reasoning. Asking "Why not?" is you knowing that purposely making a bad readlist is the most bullcrap thing you could do, and you just want to disprove that fact by using burden of proof.

1) Because I still thought Pragdoid was worse. I thought TMI was probably the reason for why you wouldn't have connected the dots. Don't you think it's scummy if someone misses a simple deduction?
2) That's in line with my thoughts on Pragdoid's contradiction case. You shouldn't have automatically equated 'bad reads' with 'not AI'.
3) Fine, screw bop. I don't think it's scummy to post a wrong read on purpose.
4) This was regarding my absence when you got emotional.

[Rockhopper]

What does 1, 2, 3, and 4 answer? I'm not sure if I'm lining each attack up with the right defense.

1. Even so, this doesn't answer much. Why didn't you just vote me when you announced I was a scumlean, when the reasoning you had was TMI?

2. Lets settle this. Originally when you posted your readlist, I thought that it was just a bad readlist and so bad reads =/= scummy and it wasn't AI to me. I thought likely you were still reading through the whole game. But then you announced later that your intentions with that readlist was to purposely make it bad, therefore I have no clue why you would do this from a towny motivation. So bad reads =/= scummy, but purposely making bad reads? That's just straight up wacky.

3. Wait, what does this answer?

4. Burden of proof is not AI in general, but when used to deflect it is scummy. Imagine this:

Person A: I believe Person B is scum for these reasons: <insert reasons here>

Person C: But why is Person B not town?

That is like a very simple form of burden of proof. Obviously, in this scenario it's way easier to see that Person C is likely scum with Person B, and this basically is what you were doing on a much more basic level and with different reasoning. Asking "Why not?" is you knowing that purposely making a bad readlist is the most bullcrap thing you could do, and you just want to disprove that fact by using burden of proof.

1) Because I still thought Pragdoid was worse. I thought TMI was probably the reason for why you wouldn't have connected the dots. Don't you think it's scummy if someone misses a simple deduction?
2) That's in line with my thoughts on Pragdoid's contradiction case. You shouldn't have automatically equated 'bad reads' with 'not AI'.
3) Fine, screw bop. I don't think it's scummy to post a wrong read on purpose.
4) This was regarding my absence when you got emotional.

1. What. How is Pragdoid worse then what you thought I was then. TMI is stronger and then anything you had against Pragdoid for a mile.

2. Whoops. Also, I didn't automatically equate bad reads with not AI. I said you making bad reads then wasn't AI for me because you probably were still collecting thoughts from the whole game. Difference, much?

3. :thonk: Uh...I'd like you to say that statement again to yourself.

4. Oh. That wasn't really AI, but scum don't like to get in a emotional battle since they know their emotions probably won't match with the townie's true emotions.

1) It could have just been you not paying attention.
2) Doesn't matter. My read on Pragdoid was all that was necessary.
3) ..I don't think it is

[Rockhopper]

Spoiler:

LoneMarkhor
Trendall
ben dover
Lunar
Battle Mage
LavarManos
Chumbo

[Rockhopper]

He isn't an elim choice until and unless there's a CC so I'm just treating him as conftown for now.

[Rockhopper]

1) It could have just been you not paying attention.
2) Doesn't matter. My read on Pragdoid was all that was necessary.
3) ..I don't think it is

This argument is doing no good to anyone, so this is the last time I will argue over these points.

1. Let me see, your reasons for voting Pragdoid/LavarManos are:

- Consensus reads
- Attacking his SR for contradiction
- Posts do not come from town (?)

Uh...TMI as a scumtell crushes all of these reasons. I have been paying attention to your SR on Pragdoid/Lavar and I disagree with these reasons.

2. Wait, what? I'm not quite understanding this, but what I can say is your attack on Pragdoid is much, much weaker than TMI in any scenario.

3. I don't think I can change your mind about this, but I'll try one more time:

Purposely making bad reads is faking reads, and that is just not ok from a towny perspective. You just never, ever, fake reads. If you have good reads, share them. Then, people can interact with your true reads rather than faking all of your reads and making a garbage readlist.

Sigh. Hopefully this is the end to this argument. It's been going on for too long and has done nothing for town. Just pretend my vote is on Rock rn, I don't want to put him in hammer range again. I still don't understand his defense against my attack, but I want someone else to check it for themselves, as this argument has become increasingly confbiased for both sides. smh.

I don't get it, TMI does NOT

crush

all of these reasons in this case. My scumlean on you was simply because you didn't connect the dots. That points to a higher likelihood of being scum but it's still possible to miss something like that as town. I found Pragdoid's opportunistic SR on clidd worse. And no, this isn't your generic 'faking reads', I was going to point out that it wasn't serious anyway.

But yeah this is getting boring. I'll just leave it at that.

[Rockhopper]

Rockhopper:Why did you vote chumbo?
I think chumbo is strong town lean and some other people also think so.

Scummiest on my wagon imo

[Rockhopper]

ugh. just elim me I hate this.

[Rockhopper]

10/10 reads lol

meh it's frustrating to be in this position

[Rockhopper]

is it silly to think there's scum on my wagon based on how easy/comfortable it is?

[Rockhopper]

(after I flip that is)

[Rockhopper]

I feel better about where my vote is.

[Rockhopper]

also Lunar why do you think i am scum?

I buy clidd's reasoning, and you have done nothing that makes me think you're town.

I don't because of the way the mod designed the first page

[Rockhopper]

It's much easier to miss the point on how a doc can't target himself than the term 'mafia goon'

[Rockhopper]

The definition of the term 'confbias' isn't stated here so this can coexist with his confusion about the doc role

[Rockhopper]

and why specifically mafia goon and not just mafia, or even town?

the question required both a role and an alignment.

[Rockhopper]

Spoiler:

ben dover
LoneMarkhor
Trendall
Battle Mage
LavarManos
Lunar
Chumbo

[Rockhopper]

meant to remove Trendall sorry

[Rockhopper]

Spoiler:

ben dover
LoneMarkhor
Trendall
Battle Mage
LavarManos
Lunar
Chumbo

what does this list mean?

Towniest to scummiest

[Rockhopper]

Spoiler:

ben dover
LoneMarkhor
Trendall
Battle Mage
LavarManos
Lunar
Chumbo

what does this list mean?

Towniest to scummiest

Why is Chumbo at the bottom of your list?

I'm pretty sure scum joined the wagon on me when it was still hot because of how comfy it was.
Chumbo over Lavar because I expect scum to be a little more cautious about putting someone at E-1.

[Rockhopper]

And you are scum because you selectively sheep clidd's Lone read (which makes little to no sense)while ignoring his read on BM (which makes more sense). I think that's a scum move.

[Rockhopper]

Chumbo over Lavar because I expect scum to be a little more cautious about putting someone at E-1.

In what way is saying I think it's a good idea to announce it worse than just putting someone at E-1 without announcing it. I've never been like "oh i better not vote yet, it would put him at E-1"

By your logic Ben should be a scum read since he always freaks out about it.

Being cautious about it doesn't make someone scum.
Putting someone at E-1 without announcing it seems too scummy to be scum. I don't expect scum!Lavar to do that since it only ruins the way people perceive his position and scum don't want that.

[Rockhopper]

Not figuring out that that is not bidirectional is probably a result of a cognitive load. It sounds like you prioritized your own survival and missed something basic.

[Rockhopper]

{Chumbo, Lunar} is my gun to head solve.
I'd be willing to vote for Lavar too if those don't work out.

[Rockhopper]

Being cautious about it doesn't make someone scum.
Putting someone at E-1 without announcing it seems too scummy to be scum. I don't expect scum!Lavar to do that since it only ruins the way people perceive his position and scum don't want that.

If you put someone at E-1 without announcing it, later you could just be like "oh, I didn't realize that was E-1". Which is why I disagree with you, I think scum would be more than willing to do this because if the next person doesn't pay attention to it they hammer.

But Lavar didn't say anything like that, did he?

[Rockhopper]

page top

brb

[Rockhopper]

But Lavar didn't say anything like that, did he?

Nobody hammered did they?

Yeah, but that's an excuse for negative reception in general

[Rockhopper]

It seems unnecessary for scum!him to risk it and ruin his image (he was thought to be pretty towny, this would be perceived poorly) for a very unlikely VI hammer.
I would also expect scum!him to come up with some excuse in case he did decide to take this route.

[Rockhopper]

LoneMarkhor is so town I'm willing to bet my soul on it

[Rockhopper]

VOTE: Lunar Martian

THIS IS E-1

[Rockhopper]

welp.

were you scum Lunar?

[Rockhopper]

nah

docs get 2 votes

[Rockhopper]

Where I'm from, artofproblemsolving.com, we use RQS since our profiles do not reveal gender and specific questions like that. Here are some questions I'd like to ask everyone.

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?
This is my first forum mafia game, I have experience with live chat mafia but not forum.
2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?
favorite alignment is town, preferably a clear power role so i don't have to worry about coming off as scummy.
3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?
probably like a 4. i am not good at mafia in general.

You think I'm scum for this one post?

[Rockhopper]

I feel that the Mars/Rock's slot is probably scum.

I have no evidence, but I think Mars was from epicmafia and was excited to play on the forum we are in. Considering her last post in the current game (a certain nervousness) and the noticeable apathy/inactivity, it's possible that she was suffering from the cognitive burden of being scum.

Well, it's an assumption, but adding that to the current impression I have of Rock, it is liable to scumread. But I will wait for some disclosure of Rock reads, maybe it will change my perception in relation to that.

Here.

^

Bad take

[Rockhopper]

The rest of you have really poor reasoning to think I'm scum, but at least there is some.

Dude. You literally sheeped clidd about Lone being scum for having mafia goon as his favourite role.
I can't see how you would choose that over BM as town.

How is it dumb to think you're scum keeping your options open?

[Rockhopper]

GTG now, sorry.

[Rockhopper]

VOTE: Chumbo

[Rockhopper]

VOTE: Chumbo

Why Chumbo still?

I missed a few pages, nevermind

[Rockhopper]

VOTE: Battle Mage

[Rockhopper]

But yeah, BM hammering like that screams scum to me. He said nothing about his reads or anything.
Then the conversation today makes it obvious. Saying Lone and Lunar has partner equity, when he just hammered lunar. Him saying we should massclaim (what would be the point). I don't think he's bothered catching up.

I think it's likely that rockhopper is his partner.
Lavar is my second choice, based on BM's vote on him.
clidd is very likely actually a doc, but it's not a certainty and I don't get why BM not removing his vote is significant. I'm pretty sure trendall was the only other person on clidd's wagon at the time and no one else was expressing a desire to eliminate clidd d1 after the claim. Ben voted him for a very short period but I think he was just losing his mind at the time.

Ben and Lone are very town.

I do not get why this town indicative

[Rockhopper]

You also said on D1 that Lava and Lunar were your solve, so why is Chumbo your main suspect now?

I said {Chumbo, Lunar} was my solve.

[Rockhopper]

UNVOTE:

[Rockhopper]

And what about Lava, do you have your reasons to TR him or you just agree with something that I or Ben said about the slot?

I have my reasons for we he's more likely town than Chumbo, 1040, 1057

[Rockhopper]

cool
VOTE: Battle Mage

[Rockhopper]

Well, I'm not. But I won't make a point.

I do want us to analyze {Chumbo, Lavar, Lone} better before my elim.

[Rockhopper]

If BM flips red: Hang Rock then Lavar for the win.

If Rock flips green go for Chumbo.

This isn't good

[Rockhopper]

Well, I'm not. But I won't make a point.

I do want us to analyze {Chumbo, Lavar, Lone} better before my elim.

You aren't going to towncase yourself or anything? What was going on D2?

I'll respond.
What did you find strange about my D2?

[Rockhopper]

You voted BM, then unvoted, then voted again. That was probably the most crazy part of your D2.

UNVOTE:

I understand, but I didn't realize BM could selfhammer and deprive us of convo until Clidd pointed that out.

[Rockhopper]

I understand, but I didn't realize BM could selfhammer and deprive us of convo until Clidd pointed that out.

What exactly made you revote so quickly after realizing it?

I didn't think it was necessary after 1302

[Rockhopper]

I understand, but I didn't realize BM could selfhammer and deprive us of convo until Clidd pointed that out.

What exactly made you revote so quickly after realizing it?

I didn't think it was necessary after 1302

Wait, BM self-hammering wasn't necessary after my post? I didn't expect you to turn back so quickly. It didn't look good imo.

You laid your plan down and I had nothing more to offer.

[Rockhopper]

*I didn't think more convo was necessary.
It was up to you if you wanted to unvote and talk more about the plan.

[Rockhopper]

Yeah, I was pretty confident that Lunar was scum D1, with Chumbo.
I wouldn't expect both scum to be on my wagon at E-2 and E-1, so {Lavar, Chumbo} was unlikely FMPOV.
I voted for Chumbo because I wanted to believe I was right, but BM was more likely.

[Rockhopper]

No. To be more precise,
{BM, Chumbo}
{BM, Lavar}
{Lavar Chumbo}
were my final solves after Lunar's flip.

I explained why I thought Chumbo was independently scummy D1, but the third pair made little sense which implied a higher chance of scum!BM.

[Rockhopper]

I didn't give it much thought.
BM wasn't in my PoE the previous day and I thought I had to be right about at least one slot in {Lunar, Chumbo}

[Rockhopper]

I do want us to analyze {Chumbo, Lavar, Lone} better before my elim.

[Rockhopper]

I've looked at everyone's ISO multiple times along with some old games of Lavar and Rock. I'm not exactly sure how to use meta like this, but things seem off. It's one or the other, I'm just not sure which.
So basically, nothings changed with my thoughts.
Things have gotten stagnant here.

You don't need meta to figure the other scum is inside {Me, Lavar}

[Rockhopper]

gg wp guys, we stood no chance

[Rockhopper]

sorry for letting you down, BM.

[Rockhopper]

well played, Chumbo.
good game.