Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[clidd]

Reading soon.

[clidd]

Where I'm from, artofproblemsolving.com, we use RQS since our profiles do not reveal gender and specific questions like that. Here are some questions I'd like to ask everyone.

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?

2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?

3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?

My answers:

1. I have finished 1 ongoing game, but it is not completed.

2. I like being a Vanilla Townie.

3. Probably a 3-4. I can catch basic tells but nothing extremely complex.

1. I started played on newbie 1980, and my last newbiegame was 2020. Idk if I should post my meta here, maybe you will expect something from me that I won't be able to deliver.

2. I don't have a favorite role. What determines whether I'm going to have fun or not is usually the playerlist.

3. I haven't played for months, so currently I imagine that I must be between 3 or 4. Let's see how I'm going to do here.

[clidd]

Started playing*.

[clidd]

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

[clidd]

In the sense that I am below my meta as a town and scum, considering that I was stopped for many months.

Posting or not posting selfmeta is NAI.

[clidd]

Hum, I feel like my sentences are not so fluent. I need to readjust to the language.

[clidd]

Btw, I have a light townlean in your slot. If you want to check my meta, you can access it on my profile.

If you have difficulty finding my finished scums games, you can search for ''mafia pt''.

[clidd]

I'm not native to english, so I don't think you will find reads in the way I type, sorry.

Ah, I changed my mind. I will help you, give me a minute.

[clidd]

Towngames:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Scumgames:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[clidd]

Just a tip: don't say when you're using meta until you have all the data. People will try to avoid their tells if you say that you're looking their past games.

This is part of the surprise trigger.

[clidd]

I'll take a break, waiting for others (trendal mainly) to post.

[clidd]

I am not referring to the use in the current game, considering that you have already announced that you will use meta, but in possible future games.

You closed the tangent of my post and assigned an individual interpretation, which is not correct according to the intention I had in advising you.

[clidd]

In other words, the tip was for future matches.

I've used a lot of meta over the period that I played on the forum and noticed that players are more attentive when you say that you are, in fact, using meta.

They may, for example, even if you are a player known for doing metadive, think that you will not necessarily apply this to all matches.

So the surprise trigger is important: you deny the preparation of the person you are analyzing, and if he is scum, you already constitute an advantage over him.

[clidd]

And by extension, just to put it in context, I don't exercise much my english at work, so the fact that I left the site for the last few months ended up reducing my level of verbal fluency.

This discrepancy is noticeable in my sentences and use of some terms, so I am trying to adapt again to the language.

[clidd]

Hrm. By searching your recent posts I found that you are playing in a ongoing game and I ISO'ed the posts you made in that game. I don't think I'm allowed to use such posts as examples here because that would be

OOT. I'd like confirmation on this because showing the posts that clidd has made so far in said ongoing game could change a couple things.

You can't quote or talk about ongoing games.

[clidd]

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.

And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.

[clidd]

Ok. Well, I think I can understand most of your reasons, however I'm not ready to retract my vote and my suspicious yet.

I still think you're towny in your posts.

[clidd]

No, people here usually wait until everyone is ready to end the day.

[clidd]

What can happen is if the person who is E-1 (1 vote before elimination/hammer) is mafia, he can selfhammer to deny time for town to speak.

[clidd]

Btw, I like your style, Ben.

You fit the leader type.

[clidd]

Are we going to talk about the fact that Trendal said "first mafia" instead or just "mafia" ?

It feels like he's projecting something.

Hmmmm.

[clidd]

Actually no, I'm open to talk.

[clidd]

Do you think I'm mafia, Trendal ?

[clidd]

Hum.

Idk, I was a little more sure that you were mafia but this omgus does not bring much benefit to you.

[clidd]

The problem is that I'm trying to imagine if it makes sense from your perspective, with the information available, to have a fos on me (in a Town!you scenario).

If I am correct, however, and you are mafia, I don't think you will be able to eliminate me today (which is the point where there is no advantage for Scum!you doing this push).

[clidd]

I'm getting pocket by my sr...

[clidd]

You're talking in way that I don't think scum!you would talk.

[clidd]

Ah, I'll take a break.

[clidd]

I imagine you being more harsh, in the sense that you would need to convey to others that I was already obvious to you, so nothing I said would matter in the game.

I believe you were more open and transparent when you approached your past games, explaining the credibility of your scumhunting method and connecting with the answer to my question about the authenticity of your perspective on Scum!Clidd.

[clidd]

Tbh, it was more of your initial reaction, which advanced to a "I'm waiting for him to do more scummy things to be absolutely sure and start my tunnel", but in the end it evolved to a "he is acting like towm, I think I understand him".

[clidd]

I don't fos you anymore.

VOTE: BM

Time to sort the last SE.

[clidd]

Ben, just relax.

[clidd]

Scums are hiding and we'll find them.

[clidd]

I don't suspect Ben at all, unless he's openwolfing and I'm confbias because he's new to the site, but I don't think so.

[clidd]

What's your take on afk slots, Chumbo ?

[clidd]

To clarify the topic 'SE', idk about everyone, but I don't think SEs take games in the newbie queue very seriously here, in the sense that we are not going to play the best we can. We are often looking for a more chill game, trying to test new styles/approaches, or we are trying to adapt to the site after a long period away (my case).

Of course, if players have any questions about the game, setup or terms used, I believe that no SE will refuse to help, but keep in mind that each one needs to absorb things on their own and find the playstyle that works better for them.

[clidd]

And like the name says, "newbie queue", is primarily for players who are joining the site and still in the process of learning the game.

SE players are just additions to clarify any doubts that may arise (and perhaps share some knowledge, but this varies from player to player).

There is also the case in which you have played a few matches and still do not feel comfortable playing in more competitive queues, in this case, the forum allows you to continue playing in the newbie queue with newbie players, but under the title of 'SE'.

[clidd]

That's all, I think.

[clidd]

I agree with the assumption that there is 1 scum afk, but, perhaps, depending on how the game flows, it's possible that both scums are just the most apathetic slots in relation to activity.

[clidd]

I would say that a point of stagnation is that BM did not actually enter the game yet. If he's town, we'll have a really good PoE to work with (since Brendall and you are towny imo)

[clidd]

PoE is just an easier way to say "process of elimination".

Basically you take a look at who you think is town and drop that person off the list of possible scums, to the point where the remaining players must be scum.

I have an example below:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11552826

I gathered the information I had about the setup, shared my opinions about the players and at the end of the post I announced which solution would be the most likely. This 'solution' was the result of the elimination process. (This is not normal, but in that game, specifically, there were three scums, although it doesn't change the essence of what I'm trying to explain to you).

It is important that you work together with your TRs, in case you are not so sure about your other reads.

[clidd]

I'm still unsure about Chumbo. I don't think what he said is beyond scum reach, and the content is basically common sense for Scum!Chumbo and Town!Chumbo.

Pedit: Fair enough, I'm waiting for them too.

[clidd]

He... He-llo..

Pl.. Players.. Afk..

Repl.. Replace..

Ben... Tren... Town..

[clidd]

@clidd: What exactly gives you a town read on Trendall? Most of the content he has posted is just arguing with Ben about "opinion vs turn of phrase" and SE elimination on Day 1. No reads, not many questions.
I see him as null right now.

It was more the way he approached our discussion.

I have noticed in most games that scums players, when pushed/treated as suspects, in some contexts, have a greater tendency to extend the duration of omgus on the player who is accusing them, rather than trying to reassess the accuser.

Example:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12046749

I started questioning a player (he was scum) and we gradually got into an argument that resulted in a TR of me on him, but at no time, during the entire game, did he reevaluate his SR on me. Later, in that same game, I took his behavior into account to revert my TR into an SR, given the lack of evolution of his read about me.

In other words, the fact that Trendal was flexible and reciprocal in relation to my TR on him demonstrates that he has the capacity for reassessment, a characteristic more associated with a town mentality than a scum one.

[clidd]

No saying that Trendal is lock-town, of course, but I'm leaning town on him today.

[clidd]

And as far as Ben is concerned, I don't think his decision making really has a malicious purpose.

By tone, we know that he is someone who likes to express himself a lot, especially when saying what he is thinking/what he is going to do, something that ends up sounding lamist (look at me im so town), but it is so explicit that it wouldn't make sense as a strategy seeing from a Scum!Ben's pov.

[clidd]

We also know that Ben played on a different forum, with different rules and probably an abstract meta, so it may be that this transition is causing a clash of concepts (and it created the bad impression we are feeling from Bren's posts).

[clidd]

So, I don't think I want to vote Ben/Trendall today.

[clidd]

With BM going vla this is where I'm going.

VOTE: NotAJumbleOfNumbers

[clidd]

I don't know how to read Chumbo yet, considering that his pov is nothing special and can be attributed to both alignments.

I was more interested in NotAJumbleOfNumbers' reaction to my vote, but I feel like I'm going to have to engage him to talk to me.

[clidd]

Posts 109 and 110 dripped me in the sense that he seemed withdrawn and not very committed to solving Ben's alignment, something I can theorize more in a newbie!Scum scenario.

Preferably, I want to know what his opinion is in relation to all events that have already occurred in the game. (@Jumble, when you get back, I want you to answer that <<)

[clidd]

my early takes are Clidd is scum, and Ben is town. full catch up and assessment to follow after the weekend.

Hum.

This is NAI coming from you, so I'm looking forward to see your reads.

[clidd]

Pragdoid, what do you think about my early 1v1 with Trendall? it changes something about your read on Trendall?

[clidd]

Honestly your earlier interactions with Trendall only strengthens my slight scumread on you. In this series of interactions you claim that there is a tell for "hello" without a vote, he responds with what looked like an omgus vote to me, and then you contradict yourself with your response, claiming that you don't think there is a tell for "hello". So which is it? I need to re-read the thread completely when I have a clearer head, but this seems disingenuous to me. Also, your take on Trendall saying "first mafia" seemed like you were grasping at straws.

The ''hello'' tell and the observation of "first mafia" were both attempts to provoke a reaction, not necessarily being a serious opinion about him.

I don't understand how you associated this with malicious behavior.

[clidd]

Honestly your earlier interactions with Trendall only strengthens my slight scumread on you. In this series of interactions you claim that there is a tell for "hello" without a vote, he responds with what looked like an omgus vote to me, and then you contradict yourself with your response, claiming that you don't think there is a tell for "hello". So which is it? I need to re-read the thread completely when I have a clearer head, but this seems disingenuous to me. Also, your take on Trendall saying "first mafia" seemed like you were grasping at straws.

I'm not sure what to make of clidd yet, but I know that in his town games he basically obvtowns really hard, just a note to keep for later.

Wait woah there is a contradiction! clidd, explain yourself.

Ok, I'm rereading now. I can't believe I missed that.

People say when I'm town I usually obvtown, but this isn't a button that I can just turn on.

So idk if I'll eventually be obvtown to your perspective, although I already have the firm feeling that you are town.

[clidd]

Btw, Pragdoid, I'm looking forward to your catch up too.

I want to better see where your head is in relation to the game, in addition to my slot. I believe that we can debate in a healthier way if you read the latest events more carefully, in case you missed any details. This will not only make it easier for me to read you, but for you to draw your conclusions about me.

[clidd]

And that's all.

I will take a break now to refresh some thoughts, maybe I'll be back later if any spark arises.

If you guys have any questions in the meantime, you can type here that I’ll check it out once I get back.

[clidd]

? You can't be obvious town manually? I'm sure anyone can be obvious town if they just tried. I'm fairly certain this sentence is null, but I'm surprised to hear that you aren't able to turn on your obvious town switch whenever you like. I'm capable of becoming obvious town and this is just my second game on the forum.

It's personal of my playstyle, I can't consciously make it happen.

[clidd]

I am really confused by all these pages of arguments.I wasnt expecting so many pages in this short time.But clidds interaction with trendall slightly makes him look scum.Ben seems town based on his thoughtful reasonings.Trendall could be either.He doesnt read scum to me nor town.
Chumbo reads slightly town too.But I cant say anything about other players.I am surprised by the hardness of catching scum but I think that it will become easier after night 1(perhaps).If I had to vote now I would vote clidd but I am going to refrain from that as there are still many days to deadline.Sorry I cant provide anything new but I am still a newbie.

Which Ben post in particular do you think best illustrates the town feel you had of him?

By extension, you said that Ben is town due to thoughtful reasoning, but I also provided some in the posts where I explain my reads on Ben/Trendall. Shouldn't I be town in your view too?

[clidd]

I think I ll have to reread some pages so i can organize my thoughts in a better way.

Ok, you can answer the questions after doing that. No problem.

[clidd]

Quick update so I don't fall out of this game entirely: Ben is slightly leaning scum to me, Chumbo seems town, Clidd is basically null right now, Trendall also seems town, everyone else hasn't posted enough to really read on.

[clidd]

Jumble, I can't quite understand where your head is. You should summarizes your reads and reasons, so I can have a take on what you're thinking.

[clidd]

You did well Ben, your analysis of my meta was fantastic.

I believe you knew what to look for and paid attention to the standards that I demonstrated between games, turning it into an AI object to evaluate me in the current game. Perhaps, however, you should have waited a little longer before releasing it, so you could have collected player's reads in general about my slot (and their reasons) and, in a Scum!Clidd scenario, create slots associations in search for my partner.

[clidd]

The only problem is that I'm town, but I am really impressed anyways. I feel that you have talent, you just need to adjust a few things to turn that potential into more accuracy.

Your slot took off to the 'lock-town' position.

[clidd]

I didn't look at the content of LavarManos so closely, but his approach after entering the game is primarily towny, although he is not so strong to enter the TR margin, more likely TL. He's more experienced than he looks.

Rockhopper's entrance, on the other hand, rang some bells.

VOTE: Rockhopper

[clidd]

Ben, you're super right: I am, in fact, playing according to my scumgame.

But I'm not scum in this game and, although I didn't play for a few months, I didn't go on vacation from work or life, so there was no physical and cognitive rest for me. You can consider that I have not yet left the state of *fatigued*, as I commented in one of the games you reviewed.

[clidd]

In Open 791, clidd is noticeably fatigued from his last 2 games, so he does not make himself obvious town and starts acting slightly like his scum meta. He talks a bit about his meta, and I am currently analyzing this game to see what he has to say about his scum meta. However, clidd should not be able to use the fatigued argument here since he has literally come back from a couple month's break, no way in hell is clidd fatigued here and not actively trying to be town.

And 241 was an answer to this passage of yours ^

[clidd]

What is your impression of my answer, Lavar?

[clidd]

I mean, the main point of your analysis is the meta, which was the reason for my praise.

Regarding your comments about my ISO, they fit the definition of "suppressing facts to fit theories" instead of "suppressing theories to fit facts". I think you are unconsciously conditioned to see reasons that agree with your adopted conclusion, which in this case is ''clidd is scum''.

I can approach if you want your pov about my posts in the current game, but I don't think it will change anything in your perspective.

[clidd]

What is your impression of my answer, Lavar?

You seemed to be dodging his case, but I didn't find that scummy because the case was too unfavorable. A response regarding that would have been appropriate, and you addressed that in your most recent post.

Yes, I've been thinking about how I would respond. Particularly, I don't like to deal with confbias, especially due to the fact that I've suffered enough of it in some games (and no one was able to convince me to change my mind).

[clidd]

Changing the subject, I'm surprised that your reaction(Lavar) was passive in relation to the Rockhopper vote.

What do you think about his entrance?

[clidd]

It's not unnecessary if I'm pointing out I didn't say something that I'm being accused of saying, because some other person might make a wrong read off of the back of it

Actually I'm gonna switch back to clidd though on the basis of how hard he's trying to pocket ben dover123. And also we don't need like 5 separate wagons with one person each on them right now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: clidd

I feel betrayed, ngl.

[clidd]

[clidd]

What is confbias?

https://www.simplypsychology.org/confirmation-bias.html

[clidd]

After a reread, I feel better about Chumbo.

[clidd]

It's strange that Rock came into the game with a very specific view of Pragdoig/Lavar's slot. I would like to see the development of other reads, in other players, before defining whether he remains in the scummy zone or not.

[clidd]

I am really confused by all these pages of arguments.I wasnt expecting so many pages in this short time.But clidds interaction with trendall slightly makes him look scum.Ben seems town based on his thoughtful reasonings.Trendall could be either.He doesnt read scum to me nor town.
Chumbo reads slightly town too.But I cant say anything about other players.I am surprised by the hardness of catching scum but I think that it will become easier after night 1(perhaps).If I had to vote now I would vote clidd but I am going to refrain from that as there are still many days to deadline.Sorry I cant provide anything new but I am still a newbie.

Which Ben post in particular do you think best illustrates the town feel you had of him?

By extension, you said that Ben is town due to thoughtful reasoning, but I also provided some in the posts where I explain my reads on Ben/Trendall. Shouldn't I be town in your view too?

What I meant was that he provided quite some reasons for what he said(a good example is the recent post against you).Why I think you are scum is your general posts which make it look like that you try to be active while trying to not say too much.No posts in general but thats the thing I get.

I was initially leaning towards a TL on Markhor, but after seeing this generic explanation, I ended up not being so sure. I have a hard time imagining Town!him based on what was described above to suspect me. It's possible, however, that he has not yet managed to correctly convey the way he is viewing the game and that is the key point, in my opinion, for me to have a greater understanding if his pov in relation to the theory of Scum!clidd is posed or not.

[clidd]

Quick update so I don't fall out of this game entirely: Ben is slightly leaning scum to me, Chumbo seems town, Clidd is basically null right now, Trendall also seems town, everyone else hasn't posted enough to really read on.

Regarding Jumble, it seems that he is existing in a parallel world, I do not feel that he is engaged with the game. Having me as null and Ben as scummy was an unusual interpretation considering the content prior to the time period in which the post was made.

He also fits the "I need to see his reads in general to know what perspective he is coming from" (town / scum).

[clidd]

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.

And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.

Honestly your earlier interactions with Trendall only strengthens my slight scumread on you. In this series of interactions you claim that there is a tell for "hello" without a vote, he responds with what looked like an omgus vote to me, and then you contradict yourself with your response, claiming that you don't think there is a tell for "hello". So which is it? I need to re-read the thread completely when I have a clearer head, but this seems disingenuous to me. Also, your take on Trendall saying "first mafia" seemed like you were grasping at straws.

And contextualizing my read on Lava, I believe that his predecessor's post above sounded very genuine in describing his impression of the clidd x Trendall situation. I do not intend to enter the subject of cognitive load, but I feel that he would not be able to absorb these details and transmit as spontaneously as scum.

[clidd]

I feel that the Mars/Rock's slot is probably scum.

I have no evidence, but I think Mars was from epicmafia and was excited to play on the forum we are in. Considering her last post in the current game (a certain nervousness) and the noticeable apathy/inactivity, it's possible that she was suffering from the cognitive burden of being scum.

Well, it's an assumption, but adding that to the current impression I have of Rock, it is liable to scumread. But I will wait for some disclosure of Rock reads, maybe it will change my perception in relation to that.

[clidd]

my early takes are Clidd is scum, and Ben is town. full catch up and assessment to follow after the weekend.

Last but not least, I think it is slightly towny for BM to reach this conclusion for 2 reasons:

1- He has already played against Scum!Clidd and maybe assimilated patterns of behavior, something that is in line with Ben's analysis of my meta (remembering that his post was before Ben's scumcase about me)

2- I voted for him and then switched to Jumble the moment BM entered the vla, this may have sounded like an alert bell for him.

Among other possible reasons, which he will probably explain when he returns.

However, there is still a chance that he is scum preparing to pull a narrative, but I think it is less likely according to what I imagined from Scum!BM and how he would act here. It also depends on what he is going to address other slots besides mine (reads).

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

Rock is very likely scum imo. I don't see him getting better, nor by giving a convincing description to his reads.

[clidd]

[clidd]

I don't have much to say until BM reveals his thoughts on the game.

[clidd]

Is Rock going to defend himself? he seems to be disseminating scummy vibes on purpose.

Honestly, I expected more people persuaded to vote on me than him.



By the way, hello BM, my old friend.

It is a hemorrhagic pleasure to see you again, although our current scenario is conflicting.

[clidd]

I'm on mobile, but I'll take a look.

[clidd]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Rock is mafia trolling us.

[clidd]

And I'm not feeling Town!BM here. Most of the observations and, theoretically, reasons to suspect me seem forced in the sense of his interpretation of "what he thinks I did" and "what I really did".

He may be sharing the same bias that Ben had from my scumgame or he is, in fact, scum.

[clidd]

A basic example is post 29, which illustrated a subtle comment about the effects that my distance from the forum had impacted on my English.

Classifying that as "self-conscious and defensive" is the culmination of interpretive distortion.

[clidd]

Ben, every action and post I'm doing you and BM see Scum!me planning something/acting in a malicious way.

If that's not bias, idk what it is.

[clidd]

Yes, your entire reasoning and hours/days of thinking that I'm scum/who's my partner were wasted time.

[clidd]

But you don't know that yet, because I'm letting you think on your own.

[clidd]

Well, sorry.

[clidd]

But, maybe there is still time to fix that.

It's my specialty to heal wounds, anyways.

[clidd]

Your pov on my ISO is biased because of your analysis of my meta.

It's clear as the sun.

[clidd]

It's more like:

Meta-> Correct
ISO-> Wrong/biased

Your comments on my posts started from the point "I know that clidd is scum" to explain the purpose of each post according to the scum!clidd scenario.

[clidd]

Ben, do you realize that I already gave you the answer ?

[clidd]

The best elim for today is Rock/Lunar, btw.

[clidd]

Chumbo as a possible third if these two towntell in some way ^

[clidd]

They are town masons?

Actually, Markhor instead of Chumbo for third.

This is very likely role-fishing.

[clidd]

I'm just sharing my pov, it's up to you to agree or not.

It is not because I am not actively posted in the game that I am not reading the events and slots.

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

Eh, no. I don't buy, sorry.

[clidd]

Eh, no. I don't buy, sorry.

You don't buy what? And I don't like these unnecessary "Hums". They are just clogging the thread even more smh.

[clidd]

Ben, I have an important question.

[clidd]

I already see you, buddy.

[clidd]

Yes, just 2 years later to figure that out lol.

[clidd]

Ben, I have an important question.

Ah, nvm. I'll let you think more.

[clidd]

Idk if I should post my meta here, maybe you will expect something from me that I won't be able to deliver.

Looking back, maybe my advice on page 1 could have avoided a lot of headaches in this game.

[clidd]

@Ben Look, it isn't even a question.

I just need you to relax a bit and think about what I'll say, ok?

pedit: ah, you again.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

I'm a town PR and my role is Doctor.

I need you to actually burn your scumcase on me and forget every reason that says that I'm scum, so we can work together.

[clidd]

Ok, I'll give some time to everyone to read this ^ so I can just forget about every line that I have to answer on my head.

[clidd]

lol

[clidd]

Mafia know what their roles are, so if he knows that there are just two mafia goons then he has a one in three chance of getting away with it and a two in three chance of outing some other power role.

Do you think I would take these odds?

[clidd]

I can't work out the town motivation for claiming so early?

Maybe being top 2 SR?

[clidd]

Maybe a big case against me?

[clidd]

Nah, I'm pretty sure everyone was sus/paranoid to a certain extent with my slot. I received a lot of negative attention.

[clidd]

And I kind of let the wave move, to see how far it would go.

I'm "ok" with claiming, if that means that we will have a decent PoE.

[clidd]

Yeah so as mafia you sacrifice yourself to out a pr.

Mafia can do that without claiming.

But yeah, I understand what you're saying.

[clidd]

Mafia can do that without claiming.

But yeah, I understand what you're saying.

How would you do it?

Rolefishing.

[clidd]

But not by being obvious, of course.

[clidd]

And I kind of let the wave move, to see how far it would go.

I'm "ok" with claiming, if that means that we will have a decent PoE.

Aren't PoE's way more effective after flips?

With a Rock flip, it would.

[clidd]

Oops I was going vote you Clidd.The flattery bit just didnt seem town.Probably I shall wait for a counterclaim.

[clidd]

I don't see why town would claim when they only have two votes on them, that's the problem I'm having.

I think I already contextualized the scenario.

[clidd]

Also he's never getting eliminated is he so he doesn't even has to sacrifice himself at all necessarily.

This isn't true imo, but ok.

[clidd]

Wait, actually, it is. I would claim I get to E-1

[clidd]

I was tired on the huge bias on me, maybe?

[clidd]

Idk if I should post my meta here, maybe you will expect something from me that I won't be able to deliver.

Looking back, maybe my advice on page 1 could have avoided a lot of headaches in this game.

.

[clidd]

Can we like, forget that this can be a scum strat from me?

[clidd]

I think I have only cc example as scum:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11830389

and I losed, so I don't really fakeclaim as mafia tbh.

[clidd]

Only one cc example*

[clidd]

so I don't really fakeclaim as mafia tbh.

I would basically have believed this if it didn't have 'tbh' written after it but that always throws me off. Not terribly confident but you're probably telling the truth here.

Who wants to get Chumbo?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chumbo

[clidd]

Why isn't Rock dead yet..

[clidd]

10/10 reads lol

[clidd]

Yeah, If I get hammer you're gone in 5s.

[clidd]

I think town should trust their humble doctor and let him lead a wagon right now.

No one is going to cc, c'mon, trust me

[clidd]

I'm thinking about lunar or lone.

BM as third if I can't get these two.

[clidd]

lol, I did it, thanks

[clidd]

I'm thinking about lunar or lone.

BM as third if I can't get these two.

I don't think we elim BM at all today. Maybe Lunar if Rock doesn't go through, maybe maybe maybe LoneMarkhor if that doesn't work, but almost never BM because he is so null and I think he has a good perspective we can look at D2.

Alright, so let's see if someone will towntell from them.

[clidd]

I'm thinking about lunar or lone.

Why lone? I don't buy the rolefishing idea at all.

I don't remember which game, but I already saw newbies faking dumbtells and others things as scum to catch prs.

So I don't trust at all.

[clidd]

There's a problem with clidd isn't there in that he identifies himself as '3-4 out of 10' at scumhunting but then makes comments like this -

10/10 reads lol

That "10/10" was a joke referring to your read on Chumbo.

[clidd]

is it silly to think there's scum on my wagon based on how easy/comfortable it is?

You were scummy to a good part of the players, so it's normal.

[clidd]

Yeah I know but why would you make such a joke if you're not terribly confident in your own abilities?

I didn't know at the beginning of the game whether I would be able to get any good read, considering that I had not been playing for months.

[clidd]

Yeah, of course.

[clidd]

Also he's never getting eliminated is he so he doesn't even has to sacrifice himself at all necessarily.

I really dislike this push from trendall on the claimed doctor. The doctor claim will be tested at night, and trendall should know better as an SE.
VOTE: trendall

[clidd]

I'll take a break and... Slee.p

[clidd]

I like the fact that my pool of elimination is 4, but there may still be a person off the radar, who is not playing scummy and knows how to behave properly.

[clidd]

I see rock's posts as townie. I think it's a bit melodramatic for clidd to get so frustrated and claim, and for rock to say "just kill me"... I don't think either of them was the most voted person at the time they did that.

Not sure where your head is.

[clidd]

Are we even going to eliminate someone day 1 because I can think of no one likely to be scum!

Like I said, scum can be just people who're scummy (that we see as newbietown) or someone who is playing towny as scum.

[clidd]

But I believe that the simplistic solution is to eliminate by order of "who is more scummy", so if the game goes to a sensitive state of ELO, we would not have to worry about dealing with such a slot.

[clidd]

And note that I am using "we" in a suppository tone within an imaginary scenario, not necessarily referring to my staying in the game after D1.

[clidd]

You think he is acting odd so he is town?

I think that people act odd all over the internet and in real life all of the time. But in the vast majority of cases these people acting odd aren't even playing a game of mafia in the first place, so 'odd behaviour' can't exactly be an indicator of any particular alignment.

Just for clarification as well I don't think Rockhopper was even acting odd at all, that just seemed to be the perception from other people.

Do you think we are biased to see Rock saying odd things?

I'm pretty sure he's playing in a "eliminate me pls" mode.

[clidd]

Actually, I'm kind of liking the idea of a BM eli too, it's very likely that he's going to coast and do nothing. At least these new slots are trying.

[clidd]

We could also accept the fact that I'm clear, btw.

I haven't seen any ccs so far, why wait more?

[clidd]

Well, if my current vote isn't sparking, it's time to change:

VOTE: Battle Mage

[clidd]

lol

Hey Lavar, I don't particularly suspect you, but this comment after my claim followed by total silence was a ping. Just for the record.

[clidd]

Yes, I can.

[clidd]

But let's just not talk about that, ok?

[clidd]

If he towntells in some way, I can change my mind.

Let's see.

[clidd]

@Trendal and Ben, do you guys have any takes on these "town"slips from Lone?

[clidd]

so I'm at like E-2 because apparently I'm not "taking the game seriously" and "going to coast and do nothing" despite being VLA for weekend and then coming back and posting lots of analysis and thoughts last night, with the promise of finishing the 2nd half of my read-through tonight?

either people with unrealistic activity standards or just not reading what I have posted and cruising on an outdated "BM is absent" read.

If I ain't dead, I'll be back tonight.

I don't think that any of your analysis is pro-town in a way that I can only imagine Town!BM doing it and that's a problem.

But we aren't going to do a flash-elimination on you, if you're worried. You can still talk your way out.

[clidd]

The last person for the CC check is BM, but I think you are 80% cleared should he not CC you. 20% being somehow you got the odds right and we are in Cop 9. I will cry foul if you actually betted having Cop 9 as setup.

Hmmm, that's out of my league, tbh.

My scumgame is more simple, I don't like gambits.

[clidd]

Wait, town BM doesn't do analysis?

Also, scum are narrowed down to {Rock, BM, Lavar, Chumbo (maybe)}. This is a pretty good PoE pool, wouldn't you say?

He does, but you can see by tone when it's town!him doing it.

Yes, pretty good PoE.

[clidd]

Maybe my mentality is always of vanilla, so I play within the same concept regardless of being PR or not.

And pocket is something you can do as town too, but you're sus of it because all of that stuff about my meta.

[clidd]

I mean, nothing was posed, I was sincere in praising your meta analysis.

[clidd]

The only problem was the bias thing, it was getting on my nerves lol

[clidd]

[1] clidd (Battle Mage)

Hum.

Is he even reading ?

[clidd]

I think he wants to understand how it would be possible for me to lie about a claim as scum.

[clidd]

Yeah, probably something like "how can clidd lie here without getting cc'd if he's scum"

[clidd]

Question: why is clidd lying?

He's mafia

Why would you work under this assumption? What would change in your eyes if clidd isn't mafia?

Because clidd is by far the most disingenuous person in the game right now. If he's not mafia then that would mean mafia is somewhere within the remaining seven players from my perspective.

If that is the case, why not just go for clidd? How is going for his supposed scumbuddy a reasonable move?

I understand that, but why use clidd!scum as a basis for your current PoE?

Because I think that he's the most likely player to be mafia.

A doctor cannot target themselves, so that can't self-protect, I just looked this up on the wiki.

And clidd, the doctor would know that. Hence clidd is lying. The question is: why?

Realistically, people make mistakes like that all the time. However, how many people have ever played a game of mafia, either on this forum or anywhere else, where the doctor can protect themselves? Like I don't think I've ever come across that.

[clidd]

1- I was testing reactions, I know what my role can do.

2- Why is people sus of me based on 10-20% or less of chance?

3- Can we like, stop talking about my claim and stuff. I feel like we are giving maf info by doing it.

[clidd]

And there is a small chance that both maf were newbies that didn't know much about roles, so I could live N1.

[clidd]

C'mon, can we just stop tripping over our own feets? we are regressing in the game.

[clidd]

I was not worried about that.

The fact that you everyone is paying so much attention to such a futile thing only illustrates how strong bias on Scum!clidd is affecting players.

[clidd]

Actually, forgot the *you*. I mean 'everyone.

[clidd]

C'mon, can we just stop tripping over our own feets? we are regressing in the game.

Hey that's what a mafia would say if they wanted to draw attention off of them.

Also, maybe I'm just pretending I think you're maf because I'm 'testing for reactions' of how other ppl respond to it lololo

LOL, that's a 200 IQ move.

[clidd]

Also you're the one who claimed doctor in the first place out of nowhere and now you don't want anybody to talk about it? Could have just not claimed y'know?

Hum, that's not how it works. I'm alived because I claimed, and who knows what would happen at E-1.

[clidd]

So you think I got the setup wrong?

[clidd]

Hmmmmm.

[clidd]

Why would my claim be more credible on E-1? the only difference was that I called out earlier and that, in fact, saved Ben time to rationalize his PoE (and probably others too).

The only point is that we are now wasting time on a futile discussion.

[clidd]

I'm actually helping you, guys.

[clidd]

This is simply not correct. I spoke to the mod and he said that there would be no extension of the deadline, so it is very likely that near the end there would be some sudden change to my slot, forcing me to claim, but denying talk time between me and you(plural).

[clidd]

By calling out earlier, I avoid this scenario and provide my opinions (of a PR, clear, by the way).

[clidd]

Why would you work under this assumption? What would change in your eyes if clidd isn't mafia?

Because clidd is by far the most disingenuous person in the game right now. If he's not mafia then that would mean mafia is somewhere within the remaining seven players from my perspective.

And can you explain this ^

You called me the most disingenuous person in the game for no reason.

[clidd]

This is simply not correct. I spoke to the mod and he said that there would be no extension of the deadline, so it is very likely that near the end there would be some sudden change to my slot, forcing me to claim, but denying talk time between me and you(plural).

I mean

right now

we still have four days left so it's just not plausible that you were this scared of being eliminated that far away from the deadline.

Ok, so you can read minds.

[clidd]

Trendall is just trolling by now, lol.

[clidd]

So testing reaction and being clear by 90%=being disingenuous, alright.

[clidd]

Actually, I don't think he's trolling. I just want to see his lines.

[clidd]

I don't think you caught me, but ok.

[clidd]

Actually, I take back, he's trolling.

[clidd]

Wait, he's not.

[clidd]

Voting uncc'd doctor

[clidd]

Yes, but they were actually scumhunting, not doing some crapshunting about me testing reactions.

[clidd]

And I'm just having some fun here, because this entire situation is really, really, really bad.

[clidd]

This is good, actually. Thanks, I'll protect you.

[clidd]

You're right about not protecting you, I was going to protect Ben.

[clidd]

That means either I get an investigation tonight

You're going to get roleblocked

I don't remember if mafia can roleblock doctor.

[clidd]

If yes, they will have to choose between me and trendall to roleblock and kill the other.

[clidd]

Hmmmmm