Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[Battle Mage]

Where I'm from, artofproblemsolving.com, we use RQS since our profiles do not reveal gender and specific questions like that. Here are some questions I'd like to ask everyone.

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?

2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?

3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?

My answers:

1. I have finished 1 ongoing game, but it is not completed.

2. I like being a Vanilla Townie.

3. Probably a 3-4. I can catch basic tells but nothing extremely complex.

I like it! good to see newbies breaking out the meta early!

1. I have played before. Best Scumgame: Mini Normal 2130 (I eliminated my teammates early, and despite the Mod confirming in thread that I was scum, I still managed to survive and win ) Best Towngame: Open 784 (I led town to basically a clean sweep of scum elims)

2. Fave Role: In theory, cult leader is cool, although when i actually played it my own cult eliminated me . Fave Alignment: Scum

3. I'm normally either a 2 or an 8, and nothing in between.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Trendall

[Battle Mage]

Ben, how would you like us to proceed then, if nobody votes?

also VOTE: Ben

a bit defensive and passive - not good townie traits

[Battle Mage]

I'm VLA for weekend

[Battle Mage]

I'm VLA for weekend

You have been afk long enough to get prodded (about 37 hours), and now you go VLA without offering anything? I don't like this at all.

I don't think 37 hours is enough for a prod in a newbie game. I just accidentally ended up in too many games and real life got busy.

I'll be back in the mix well before deadline.

[Battle Mage]

my early takes are Clidd is scum, and Ben is town. full catch up and assessment to follow after the weekend.

[Battle Mage]

pagetop
Answer this RQS please before reading:

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?

2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?

3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?

4. How active will you be in this game?

what a time to return! we're back at the RQS again?

I think the only one I didnt answer yet is 4. Hopefully reasonably active for the next 2 weeks, although I'm in too many games lol

[Battle Mage]

early interaction on Page 2-3 between Ben and Clidd (which I think is where I left off) has me thinking Ben is solid town and Clidd is a good bet for scum.

Here's why:

Idk if I should post my meta here, maybe you will expect something from me that I won't be able to deliver.

This is an awkward sentence. Scum has more motivation to not post their meta then town does. Additionally, you have got the idea of meta wrong, which is surprising noting the fact that you started playing almost a year ago.

VOTE: clidd

I can understand this take, and it shows a solving mindset - interrogating the data in front of him.

Hum, I feel like my sentences are not so fluent. I need to readjust to the language.

self-conscious and defensive.

Btw, I have a light townlean in your slot. If you want to check my meta, you can access it on my profile.

If you have difficulty finding my finished scums games, you can search for ''mafia pt''.

"Btw I have a light townlean in your slot" reads as a slightly awkward inducement to get Ben to stop putting pressure on him.

I'm not native to english, so I don't think you will find reads in the way I type, sorry.

Ah, I changed my mind. I will help you, give me a minute.

changed his mind? about being helpful? but why?

Towngames:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Scumgames:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I'm not sure posting 6 links with no commentary or context is actually too helpful (will people read all the links, and if they do, will they draw reasonable conclusions?). However, it is high effort, which I think accords better with scum than town here.

I'm not native to english, so I don't think you will find reads in the way I type, sorry.

Ah, I changed my mind. I will help you, give me a minute.

Hm. That explains a bit of the weird sentence, but I'm not ready to accept this revelation yet. This is where meta comes into play. If I check all of your games and you have the same behavoiur and weird wording around your

sentences, I will pass over this sentence since that proves your awkward sentences are not a first time behaviour.

sensible and duly suspicious newb-town approach. This one is town.

Just a tip: don't say when you're using meta until you have all the data. People will try to avoid their tells if you say that you're looking their past games.

This is part of the surprise trigger.

this is actually a valid point - although it's more information to the newbies than anything which suggests scumhunting.

I'll take a break, waiting for others (trendal mainly) to post.

This doesn't vibe with me. Normally people will drop in a "take a break" when they are finding a game stressful. Nothing had really happened to this point and Clidd was focussing much more on defending himself from minimal pressure from Ben than actually furthering any of his own reads. Suggests someone feeling the pressure and needing to give an excuse for not posting for a bit.

Ok. Well, I think I can understand most of your reasons, however I'm not ready to retract my vote and my suspicious yet.

I still think you're towny in your posts.

It continues a while later. Ben still scumreading Clidd a bit, and Clidd buddying him. There's no other reason Clidd would make post 49, other than to try and pocket Ben.

Btw, I like your style, Ben.

You fit the leader type.

And some more of the game, only this is more personal flattery. It's a hard-sell, but in fairness it seems to work...

Btw, I like your style, Ben.

You fit the leader type.

Thanks!

In any case, highly unlikely this interaction came from scumpartners, so that's 1 pairing ruled out.

[Battle Mage]

Where I'm from, artofproblemsolving.com, we use RQS since our profiles do not reveal gender and specific questions like that. Here are some questions I'd like to ask everyone.

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?

2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?

3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?

My answers:

1. I have finished 1 ongoing game, but it is not completed.

2. I like being a Vanilla Townie.

3. Probably a 3-4. I can catch basic tells but nothing extremely complex.

Hmmm...
1. This is my first game of forum mafia.I have never played mafia on forums before.

2. I think mafia goon perhaps.

3. No idea.I still have to see.

townlean for a newbie saying they prefer to be mafia.

Yeah, it's my first game here.

Here is a question I'd like to ask everyone:
If someone was one vote away from being lynched, and there were people who wanted to continue discussion but you were convinced they were scum, would you hammer them?

A great question. It depends - I am generally a "hammer first, ask questions later" sorta guy.

[Battle Mage]

I'm getting pocket by my sr...

Clidd referring to pocketting, shortly after attempting to pocket Ben, suggesting further that this was intentional.

You're talking in way that I don't think scum!you would talk.

Clidd dangling a carrot of a townread to Trendall to persuade him to move his vote - same as with Ben on previous page.

again I don't feel Clidd-Trendall here.

[Battle Mage]

I don't understand why Battle Mage is so inactive, is it part of his playstyle?

I just accidentally ended up in too many games and then was VLA for the weekend and couldn't keep up with them all. Definitely not my playstyle!

Also, looking back I don't understand this either.

Ben, how would you like us to proceed then, if nobody votes?

also VOTE: Ben

a bit defensive and passive - not good townie traits

All I was talking about is why I don't vote in RVS. I can see where the overdefensiveness comes in but the passive part?

not voting is passive, voting is active. voting in RVS can get people wagonning you, and so being active carries a risk. not voting is a good way for scum to stay out of trouble.

[Battle Mage]

So what I have noticed most in this game is that Ben talks a lot, but in a lot of what he says there doesn't seem to be much substance. There was a post where he explained why he doesn't like to do RVS because it takes energy, but that caused him to expend much more energy in an self-envoked explanation. Another thing I've noticed about him is that he likes to use the words townie and conservative. I also think that his asking for reads this early on is strange, when only 3 people have more than 3 posts, while not giving his own reads in the post. I also thought his pressure of clidd, on not immediately posting his meta and then harping about clidd's language he used was strange. I did not feel this way about clidd's use of words. I thought that, for the most part, that what he said about not immediately posting the meta was a joke.

That being said, I don't really like how clidd eventually caved under pressure about the meta. Nothing else he has said has really stood out though.

I'll comment on Trendall later, right now I need to get some sleep.

Everyone else hasn't posted very much, myself included.

If someone was one vote away from being lynched, and there were people who wanted to continue discussion but you were convinced they were scum, would you hammer them?

I wouldn't, especially if it was after day 1. There might be someone who has a good reason not to want the hammer to happen like maybe they know the person is not scum because they are a power role that has the result of proving it. I think discussion should have a decent chance before a quick hammer. I think this was a very good question to ask.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: ben dover123

I like this post - newbie keen to get stuck in and throw a bit of shade more likely town, and the takes are believable. Feel like we've got a good townblock forming.

I don't understand why that would raise the likelihood of my being mafia if it's the case that I don't make any real conscious distinction between SEs and the other players.

Well, it does for me. Let me explain it like this: I usually think scum SE's don't try to eliminate other SE's D1 because they are more competent then say, the LHF's of the game. However, since you admitted that you could possibly push a SE for elimination D1, now your chances of being scum and pushing a clidd elimination are possible.

not all SEs are created equal though.

I don't suspect Ben at all, unless he's openwolfing and I'm confbias because he's new to the site, but I don't think so.

Clidd can you confirm what you mean by "openwolfing" here? Doesn't seem to be the definition I know.

To clarify the topic 'SE', idk about everyone, but I don't think SEs take games in the newbie queue very seriously here, in the sense that we are not going to play the best we can. We are often looking for a more chill game, trying to test new styles/approaches, or we are trying to adapt to the site after a long period away (my case).

Of course, if players have any questions about the game, setup or terms used, I believe that no SE will refuse to help, but keep in mind that each one needs to absorb things on their own and find the playstyle that works better for them.

I take newbie games seriously - they are probably the most fun for me because people are generally nice to each other and it's a good opportunity to teach and also meet new people. Plus in theory they should be more winnable, and my win rate needs all the help it can get!

[Battle Mage]

I'm VLA for weekend

You have been afk long enough to get prodded (about 37 hours), and now you go VLA without offering anything? I don't like this at all.

yeah I dig it - I ended up in too many games towards the end of last week and then was VLA over the weekend without enough time to keep up with them all.

Trendall: are you going to answer my question or do you have to be coached? You've played plenty of games here already.

yep Chumbo probably town.

[Battle Mage]

I'm VLA for weekend

You have been afk long enough to get prodded (about 37 hours), and now you go VLA without offering anything? I don't like this at all.

I don't think 37 hours is enough for a prod in a newbie game. I just accidentally ended up in too many games and real life got busy.

I'll be back in the mix well before deadline.

This is understandable. 2040 just ended, and wow that game was hella tense.

my early takes are Clidd is scum, and Ben is town. full catch up and assessment to follow after the weekend.

Ok, I can't wait to hear what you have to say about the clidd take

haha well I hope it was worth the wait! And you read newbie 2040? What did you think?

[Battle Mage]

I don't know how to read Chumbo yet, considering that his pov is nothing special and can be attributed to both alignments.

I was more interested in NotAJumbleOfNumbers' reaction to my vote, but I feel like I'm going to have to engage him to talk to me.

I don't think you'd left yourself much room for manouevre at this point, having townblocked Ben and Trendall?

my early takes are Clidd is scum, and Ben is town. full catch up and assessment to follow after the weekend.

Hum.

This is NAI coming from you, so I'm looking forward to see your reads.

what does this post even mean?

I'm sorry about my inactivity, I wasn't expecting the game to move as quickly as it has. And from my pov the game started wednesday night, so I didn't think missing 1 full day would be as detrimental as it has been.

I am going to do a full re-read tomorrow morning, but my preliminary reads are that Ben and Chumbo are the most likely town, based on Ben's proactiveness and well thought out reasoning, as well as his change of stance on Chumbo. My view on Chumbo is similar to his, I think he was genuine in his read of Ben. Trendall I could go either way on. clidd gives a a bit of a scumread, but this is entirely based on gut alone. Everyone else hasn't posted enough to get any kind of read on.

I will do my best to get back to anyone's questions tonight if they ask any, but with the weekend here I should be more active.

good initial reads, accord well with mine to this point.

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.

And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.

Honestly your earlier interactions with Trendall only strengthens my slight scumread on you. In this series of interactions you claim that there is a tell for "hello" without a vote, he responds with what looked like an omgus vote to me, and then you contradict yourself with your response, claiming that you don't think there is a tell for "hello". So which is it? I need to re-read the thread completely when I have a clearer head, but this seems disingenuous to me. Also, your take on Trendall saying "first mafia" seemed like you were grasping at straws.

this is "honestly" pretty weak though.

Honestly your earlier interactions with Trendall only strengthens my slight scumread on you. In this series of interactions you claim that there is a tell for "hello" without a vote, he responds with what looked like an omgus vote to me, and then you contradict yourself with your response, claiming that you don't think there is a tell for "hello". So which is it? I need to re-read the thread completely when I have a clearer head, but this seems disingenuous to me. Also, your take on Trendall saying "first mafia" seemed like you were grasping at straws.

I'm not sure what to make of clidd yet, but I know that in his town games he basically obvtowns really hard, just a note to keep for later.

Wait woah there is a contradiction! clidd, explain yourself.

Ok, I'm rereading now. I can't believe I missed that.

I don't think there was a contradiction there - you can consider something to be a tell without it being a universally recognised tell.

[Battle Mage]

I haven't read all of it, but I saw you self-hammered. Unfortunate.

Well, this game is a fresh page for you, I'd say. I can't wait to finally interact and work with you. Then, at long last, everyone will be active and we can start solving for real.

I don't think I've ever self-hammered before, but I did it to protect my scumbuddy. I figured giving Jumble more opportunity to interact with me would have been a mistake and I didn't think Skitter would ever listen to me. And it worked, as my buddy went on to win!

[Battle Mage]

Honestly your earlier interactions with Trendall only strengthens my slight scumread on you. In this series of interactions you claim that there is a tell for "hello" without a vote, he responds with what looked like an omgus vote to me, and then you contradict yourself with your response, claiming that you don't think there is a tell for "hello". So which is it? I need to re-read the thread completely when I have a clearer head, but this seems disingenuous to me. Also, your take on Trendall saying "first mafia" seemed like you were grasping at straws.

I'm not sure what to make of clidd yet, but I know that in his town games he basically obvtowns really hard, just a note to keep for later.

Wait woah there is a contradiction! clidd, explain yourself.

Ok, I'm rereading now. I can't believe I missed that.

People say when I'm town I usually obvtown, but this isn't a button that I can just turn on.

So idk if I'll eventually be obvtown to your perspective,

although I already have the firm feeling that you are town

.

Clidd at it again.

I am really confused by all these pages of arguments.I wasnt expecting so many pages in this short time.But clidds interaction with trendall slightly makes him look scum.Ben seems town based on his thoughtful reasonings.Trendall could be either.He doesnt read scum to me nor town.
Chumbo reads slightly town too.But I cant say anything about other players.I am surprised by the hardness of catching scum but I think that it will become easier after night 1(perhaps).If I had to vote now I would vote clidd but I am going to refrain from that as there are still many days to deadline.Sorry I cant provide anything new but I am still a newbie.

good stuff, townlean.

I'm VLA for weekend

You have been afk long enough to get prodded (about 37 hours), and now you go VLA without offering anything? I don't like this at all.

I'm not sure why this was received badly? Later on he showed that he could at least give a one-line summary while on VLA, so that just begs the question of why he didn't just say it in his VLA post.

weak shade.

I am really confused by all these pages of arguments.I wasnt expecting so many pages in this short time.But clidds interaction with trendall slightly makes him look scum.Ben seems town based on his thoughtful reasonings.Trendall could be either.He doesnt read scum to me nor town.
Chumbo reads slightly town too.But I cant say anything about other players.I am surprised by the hardness of catching scum but I think that it will become easier after night 1(perhaps).If I had to vote now I would vote clidd but I am going to refrain from that as there are still many days to deadline.Sorry I cant provide anything new but I am still a newbie.

Which Ben post in particular do you think best illustrates the town feel you had of him?

By extension, you said that Ben is town due to thoughtful reasoning, but I also provided some in the posts where I explain my reads on Ben/Trendall. S

houldn't I be town in your view too?

Clidd again focussing on his top priority of trying to be townread by everyone.

Ok I'm pausing for the night at post 210 - will continue tomorrow night.

In the meantime, VOTE: Clidd obviously.

[Battle Mage]

so I'm at like E-2 because apparently I'm not "taking the game seriously" and "going to coast and do nothing" despite being VLA for weekend and then coming back and posting lots of analysis and thoughts last night, with the promise of finishing the 2nd half of my read-through tonight?

either people with unrealistic activity standards or just not reading what I have posted and cruising on an outdated "BM is absent" read.

If I ain't dead, I'll be back tonight.

[Battle Mage]

brief check in to say:

what the hell is going on
believe both PR claims
guess i was wrong about clidd - sorry clidd

more tonight, apologies i timed out last night.

[Battle Mage]

46 pages on Day 1 in a newbie game? this is a monstrosity

[Battle Mage]

nothing spicy, other than im sick of town PRs being outted early in all fking games. i would like to actually win this. I'm probably going to catch up during the night phase as there's no chance I'm getting NKed

[Battle Mage]

at least the SEs being town helps, and Ben being obvtown helps narrow the pool nicely. Should be solvable, but I'm going to do it properly. You may as well consider me a replace-in at this point with how little I've been here.

[Battle Mage]

nothing spicy, other than im sick of town PRs being outted early in all fking games. i would like to actually win this. I'm probably going to catch up during the night phase as there's no chance I'm getting NKed

Would you abuse vla and prod dodge as scum?

yep definitely. my scum-meta is lurking like hell.

[Battle Mage]

eh, i suppose you're right that i wouldn't do it in an unethical way. I guess the more accurate characterisation is, as scum I naturally try to post less and lurk without being called out for lurking. So it's not really prod-dodging levels I suppose. And I only ever use VLA when I dont have time to post in a game for a period.

[Battle Mage]

eh, i suppose you're right that i wouldn't do it in an unethical way. I guess the more accurate characterisation is, as scum I naturally try to post less and lurk without being called out for lurking. So it's not really prod-dodging levels I suppose. And I only ever use VLA when I dont have time to post in a game for a period.

So you're saying that is NAI and that you're scum, right?

nah i'm town dude. i'm saying there's a difference between lurking and literally not posting or reading or doing anything.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: lunar martian

hope that's a hammer, you're killing me here

[Battle Mage]

Sigh...rip Trendall, but he was basically dead anyways.

Tier list:

Tier I (No scum):

ben dover123, LoneMarkhor

Tier II (Maybe 1 scum, but not scumteam):

clidd, LavarManos

Tier III (At least 1 scum, possibly scumteam)

Rockhopper, Chumbo, BM

My PoE: {LavarManos, Rockhopper, Chumbo, BM}
Possible scumteams:
{LavarManos, Chumbo}
{LavarManos, BM}
{Rockhopper, BM}
{Chumbo, BM}

{LavarManos, Rockhopper} is just not possible since Lavar put Rock at E-1 with intent to hammer.
{Chumbo, Rockhopper} isn't likely since I doubt Chumbo would put Rock at E-2, then when Rock reaches E-1 he doesn't unvote.
{BM, clidd} isn't likely since BM never removed his vote on clidd.

Spoiler: Clidd

clidd has been weird all game long. His actions just don't match his vt playstyle, but I think I have finally reached a conclusion on him.

First of all, if clidd knows the setup is double goons, then he has a 1/3 chance of getting a 2 goons + 1 cop + 6 vt's setup, and a 2/3 chance of outing another PR. This alone cannot make him partners with a newbie since I doubt he would ever let a newbie try to deepwolf when he has outed a PR. Therefore, the only possible team now that has clidd is {BM, clidd}

Second of all, clidd could rolefish and just stay away from claiming. It's a lot safer, and tons easier for his teammate.

Third of all, {BM, clidd} isn't actually that likely in my eyes, because BM never unvoted clidd, which I don't quite understand. Sure, BM was awkward when talking to clidd, but he didn't unvote which I think ruins the possibility of a {BM, clidd} team.

Finally, analyzing the time of the claim:
Y'see, clidd claims when he was at E-3, with Rock's wagon coming out of E-1. If clidd was scum, there is literally no motivation to claim here as such a risky play, which makes clidd even more town.
I think this may be doctor clidd trying to get our attention to work with him here. Scum clidd doing all the above things is just so unrealistic.

Conclusion: clidd is town, BM has a 3/4 chance of being scum, we can prove BM is scum if we prove that either Lavar or Chumbo is town.

I really love this analysis. I didn't read the Clidd spoiler, because Clidd is ostensibly locktown based on his claim. I'm guessing Cop dying means there's a scum roleblocker, unless Clidd gambled on protecting you. I also consider you virtually certain town, largely based on your effort and genuine solving vibe.

So it's 2 out of everybody else, and the relationship stuff is helpful.

Admittedly my hammer wasn't great given the flip, but seriously...nearly 50 pages on Day 1 of a newbie game is fricking insane, and I just wanted to end it to give me a fighting chance of catching up

[Battle Mage]

I guess there's a good chance I flip today which is fine, but I'll try and give some high quality SE insight beforehand. At least we're at the stage of the game where you can narrow down the PoE to certain viable combinations, although presumably Clidd and you are dying the next 2 nights anyway.

[Battle Mage]

BM, we know you're scum.

Can you just say who's your partner ?

I'm town dude but it's cool, I haven't done a very good job of demonstrating that

[Battle Mage]

haha i think i'm retiring after all my current games wind up. just too busy and some of these games (not this one) are a bit stressful!

but if we do play as town together again one day, I'll obvtown more

[Battle Mage]

I think there's high partner equity between Lunar and LoneMarkhor.

Lunar only ever votes between 4 people (all probable or conftown from my POV): Trendall, Clidd, Ben, Me.
Lunar's top scumread for most of Day 1 is Markhor. He argues hard that Markhor is scum, but never votes him.
Reads like distancing to me.
But for all reasons above, I don't think Lunar can be scum with anyone other than Markhor. It's rare for newbie scum to not distance a bit, and if Markhor is town, Lunar has literally only attacked town.

So if Markhor town, Lunar town.

[Battle Mage]

hold on, Lunar is dead! I'm a moron

back to the drawing board...

[Battle Mage]

For example, Lavar is literally just posting one liners like "bruh" and "you're going to get roleblocked" and obvious stuff like that, as if he is coasting the sidelines watching town just go boom boom

Pedit: You have literally no right to troll here bud.

VOTE: LavarManos

Anyone want to jump on here as well?

I wasn't trolling dude, I forgot who got elimmed. It was a long night...

But yeah I agree with Ben here. The vote on me today was very opportunistic, and shamelessly buddying.

VOTE: LavarManos

[Battle Mage]

maybe we should massclaim...

[Battle Mage]

whatever happens, we just need to look past the fact I tried to argue a dead townie had high mafia-partner equity with somebody. I think if we can just ignore that, it's still possible not to mis-elim today.

[Battle Mage]

maybe we should massclaim...

ok tf

is bm openwolving at this point

lol grrrrrr

but no, my goose is just cooked.

[Battle Mage]

For example, Lavar is literally just posting one liners like "bruh" and "you're going to get roleblocked" and obvious stuff like that, as if he is coasting the sidelines watching town just go boom boom

Pedit: You have literally no right to troll here bud.

VOTE: LavarManos

Anyone want to jump on here as well?

I wasn't trolling dude, I forgot who got elimmed. It was a long night...

But yeah I agree with Ben here. The vote on me today was very opportunistic, and shamelessly buddying.

VOTE: LavarManos

i wasn't talking to you

what is this coming from BM

clidd help

ah sorry yeah i think we cross-posted. anyway, we just need to get Clidd on board and we can get this show back on the road!!

[Battle Mage]

as a general reflection, this may be the most a group of newbies has over-shadowed a group of SEs in the history of the New York Forum. terrible showing, i sincerely apologise to you all.

[Battle Mage]

road to rome* damnit!

[Battle Mage]

ben, you have done great in this game. i just want you to know that. and not to feel too bad about what's about to happen.

[Battle Mage]

no i mean it man. i'm all over this place, i see what you do - i think you are a great newbie! hopefully if i am back in the future, we shall play together again in more satisfying and victorious setting!

[Battle Mage]

i'm not sucking up to you, i'm just telling you - you're brilliant!

[Battle Mage]

ah you could be gracious and take the compliment well meant...

[Battle Mage]

Clidd has done well too, apart from looking scummy early - i dont blame him for claiming, it was just unfortunate.

Maybe it's not too late for the 3 of us to, put our differences behind us and work as a team once more?

[Battle Mage]

yeah thats sensible, i think one of you is probably dying tonight, but the other will have to solve this tomorrow in Ex-lo, which ain't gonna be easy.

[Battle Mage]

eh? i thought we were elimming Lavar today?

[Battle Mage]

eh? i thought we were elimming Lavar today?

No, I am definitely against a Lavar elim. I posted their ISO btw.

I'm surprised you u-turned so suddenly on that, but i'm sure you have your reasons

im pretty convinced Lavar is scum.

[Battle Mage]

Don't put him at E-1 (bc he can self-hammer and deny our D2)

i wouldnt self hammer dude, i think that's against the rules - 'playing against your wincon'. Plus you might get info from whoever hammers me, or defends me.

[Battle Mage]

ben knows i would never self hammer.

[Battle Mage]

Self hammer as scum isn't against the rules, it's strategy.

honestly dude, i'm not scum, and i wouldn't do that to you.

[Battle Mage]

Don't put him at E-1 (bc he can self-hammer and deny our D2)

i wouldnt self hammer dude, i think that's against the rules - 'playing against your wincon'. Plus you might get info from whoever hammers me, or defends me.

Pfft.

Exhibit A: Newbie Game 2040

i don't think that's fair, to use other games as part of a case against me.

[Battle Mage]

I think I'm being stitched up here!

[Battle Mage]

I knew I could win you round! You're a smart guy, Mr Dover!

[Battle Mage]

but if we're not elimming me today, we need an alternative.

who do you like Ben?

[Battle Mage]

I think we should do Lavar, and if Lavar flips scum I get a clean slate

[Battle Mage]

im gonna be toast for tonight, take it easy

[Battle Mage]

Where Lavar makes him suspicious are those posts where both PRs claimed.He was trolling(lurking? or whatever).Also I think Battlemage could be sacrificing himself to keep a distance from Lavar.Or it could be Rock.

That's fair. The way BM is talking doesn't make any interactions really obvious, so we are sort of clueless going into D3.

I've interacted lots today, especially with you and Dr Clidd! I don't think you should read too much into anything I say though - just do your own solves.

[Battle Mage]

Assuming we are all correct on Lone, right?

you gotta be clidding me!

[Battle Mage]

Chumbo...you absolute legend!!

I enjoyed watching this game from heaven more than actually being alive in it I think . Chumbo, great teammate, really enjoyed playing with you (and sorry again I sucked). But you did it, as I knew you would!

Completely agree with Mod - town was massively handicapped from Day 1 with the 2 PR claims. If either PR doesn't claim, I think we probably lose this game because we had picked up some bogus crumbs. MVP performance to Ben though - continually second-guessing and sorting, it's a testament to you that we actually considered killing you instead of the PRs early on.

I thought Day 2 went fairly well, we sowed the seeds for the 2 mis-elims needed and it played out basically as expected. Day 1 was too fricking long, and I promise you I'm hammering in that spot regardless of alignment in any newbie game with a 50-page Day 1.

[Battle Mage]

there was a dead PT? I was never invited lol

[Battle Mage]

there was a dead PT? I was never invited lol

lol, yes you were

oh you put it as a link at the bottom of the N2 announcement... damnit, i didnt think it'd be there, as i thought that email went to everyone!? dang

[Battle Mage]

i am also cool with scum HQ being revealed to the world.