PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Dunnstral]

I propose that after Xenoblade mafia, Flavor leaf swiftly picked Spiffeh to be on his team to redeem himself

VOTE: Spiffeh

[Dunnstral]

I think it makes more sense for him to pick Noraa for that reason, Dunn.

Also, we’re an informed townie that knows scum can multitask.

They can multitask, or they have the multitasking ability?

[Dunnstral]

I think it makes more sense for him to pick Noraa for that reason, Dunn.

I disagree

[Dunnstral]

17. Nobody can use more than one active ability per day or night, unless they have the

Multitasking

passive ability.

[Dunnstral]

And the majority of the scum I'd expect to be in {Double the Trouble, Polar Bear Express, Not Know 15, Battle Mage, Dunnstral, Dr Easy Bake}.
There's going to be 2-3 scum in there probably.

Are we really doing this already

[Dunnstral]

Whoever doubted me, yes, I saw the rule. I’m telling you what our role pm says.

OK.

I don't think there is a contradiction there, actually

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Polar Bear Express

[Dunnstral]

Post 77 pings me as well, and Noraa is also someone I think FL would be likely to pick, and Spiffeh looks better right now

[Dunnstral]

I think Mastina and probably Dunn are town.

What is this based on?

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Open if you're interested in doing mock drafts

Players down to do mock drafts:
Alisae
MURDERCAT

Basically the plan is we're gonna do mock drafts and after the draft concludes we're gonna talk about why we went with what we did. We might get something out of it, we might not, but regardless its all fun and games and thats mostly why we're doing it.

I'd rather not give insight into mason picks, or make someone who may be a mason give insight into picks

[Dunnstral]

Post 77 pings me as well, and Noraa is also someone I think FL would be likely to pick, and Spiffeh looks better right now

Nothing I have done so far is outside of my scum range so what makes me look better right now?

I agree, I mean you look better compared to Polar bears

[Dunnstral]

Uh, i find it really unlikely that Flavor would draft Noraa btw.

Why?

[Dunnstral]

Post 77 pings me as well, and Noraa is also someone I think FL would be likely to pick, and Spiffeh looks better right now

Nothing I have done so far is outside of my scum range so what makes me look better right now?

Also: Do you think I should have a good idea of what your 'scum range' is?

[Dunnstral]

Love it!

Bad reaction

[Dunnstral]

We're up to 5 posts where Bell directly interacts with a tree stump, so far, in case anyone was wondering

[Dunnstral]

@Dunstral, is this gunna be a thing again?

What are you talking about?

[Dunnstral]

We're up to 5 posts where Bell directly interacts with a tree stump, so far, in case anyone was wondering

Yeah, and not in a natural way for a townie. So. Why is your vote elsewhere?

Because I scumread the slot I'm voting

[Dunnstral]

@Dunstral, is this gunna be a thing again?

What are you talking about?

It's RVS dunn, let me play. You don't need to point at every post I make and step on it before the paint is even dry.

I forget, do I have a history of doing this to you? Otherwise, what are you on about

[Dunnstral]

We're up to 5 posts where Bell directly interacts with a tree stump, so far, in case anyone was wondering

Yeah, and not in a natural way for a townie. So. Why is your vote elsewhere?

Because I scumread the slot I'm voting

For their entrance, or because of that idiotic "FL surely picked them"?

Both, as I've already explained

[Dunnstral]

Oh, you're talking about that, OK

[Dunnstral]

I don't like what Noraa is doing in the thread right now, but it doesn't really look like the game they just played.

I like mastina, Netflix and Chill, and I think Bell right now

[Dunnstral]

Noraa posting like she is from the r/fluffycommunity is annoying

Yeah that's the word, they are being annoying

[Dunnstral]

quite frankly brian I'm not sure how you expect me to have one.

I think you can have an opinion on nk15

I think he's a little scummy at the moment but don't want to jump the gun

[Dunnstral]

What aspect of the post pings you?

Awkward over-explainey entrance followed by leaving

[Dunnstral]

What aspect of the post pings you?

Awkward over-explainey entrance followed by leaving

Hello Scumbucket #1!

You don't even realize your slot has posted at this point in time, you don't know what I'm referring to, and you're not acknowledging my current read on you

Shut up

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

Spoiler: Versus Series rules

• Signup Rules
  • There will be nineteen players in all.
    
  • There will be two treestumps: One town and one scum. These players are decided presignups and indicated in the signup title.
    
  • Seventeen players will /in.
    
  • This game has wisdom of the stumps and mod due to the drafting mechanics.
    
  • 13 players will be town and 4 will be group scum. There are no third parties or traitors.
• Creating the Teams
  • The Masonry
    • The Town stump picks how many masons they want up to three.
      
    • For each mason the town stump doesn't pick, they get a one shot normal role of their choice with any normal modifier. Both treestumps are ascetic and unkillable.
      
    • Once the town stump has determined how many masons they want, they submit a list of that many players plus four. (Ex: If the stump picked three masons, the stump would submit seven names.) This will be their mason pool.
      
    • The moderator(s) will take this list and remove the scumteam.
      
    • The moderator(s) will then randomize the remaining names to determine the masons.
      
    • These player(s) will then get a private PT with the town treestump.
  • Drafting the Scumteam
    • It's strongly recommended that the scum treestump have discord, skype, or be willing to use site chat to draft their scumteam.
      
    • From the list of 17 players, the moderators say two players who cannot be scum.
      
    • The scum treestump drafts a player.
      
    • The moderator(s) then determine two players who cannot be scum.
      
    • The scum drafter picks again.
      
    • Two more get removed.
      
    • This continues until the scum team is filed.
      
    • The scum and their stump have a PT.
  • Creating the setup
    • Once the scumteam has their players, the scum treestump creates their team's roles.
      
    • The scumteam can pick most anything they want, and the moderators balance town around their pick.
      
    • The scumstump may also submit two rules the moderators must follow when designing the setup. (Ex: No cops/gunsmiths, All town must be joats). Any broken rules will be rejected.
      
    • The scumteam may not pick any alignment changing roles or any roles that automatically tell them who the masons are. Any gamebreakingly OP scum roles will be rejected.
      
    • Once the scumteam has their roles and the masons are determined, the moderators design the setup within 48 hours.
      
    • Balance is strived for but not guaranteed.
      
    • The moderators may create new roles or mechanics to create a fun setup.

Can someone link me to any previous vs games? I’ve never played in this type of setup. But Pooky eventually won me over with piano concertos and I finally caved into the pressure. <3

Can someone please respond to this, please?

I mean links specifically to any prior vs games. Why am I getting the sense that this is the Noraa Bear Express hydra and that no one is noticing me? :/

You're free to look up previous vs setups on your own, they're usually run by different mods.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=80863

[Dunnstral]

Is this much faffing about typical for you two?

[Dunnstral]

anyone have any questions for me about the game so far? (:

If you could reveal one players alignment right now, who would it be?

[Dunnstral]

Ultra lame read

[Dunnstral]

pichu's posts are actually make me tear up from laughing and i hate this

I'm considerably less amused

I don't have a good idea of where I want to vote right now

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Solstice

They have a point though

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf
Because this MF didn't make me scum.

First person to tell me to vote for someone gets it.

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake

[Dunnstral]

I noted Dunn being more engaged than I’ve seen him recently and wasn’t sure what to make of it.

I was just in xenoblade with you two

[Dunnstral]

i'm NOT in a scum discord
we're using a youtube comments section to talk

:O

how do you know about the scum discord?!

did your scum discord tell you to post that?

pretty sure they had one in the previous iteration of this though

Different mod

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn- I know. Maybe it’s due to the lack of volume here compared to there? Like I said I wasn’t feeling any kinda way about it I just clocked it.

VOTE: BM

Let’s kill this double. Truce?

I was actually more engaged in Xenoblade, it's just that the pace was lightning fast so I didn't seem as impressive in comparison

This game has less posts but it's harder to read/engage with because Ydrasse, Pichu, Double the Trouble, Polar Bear Express, and Pooky are all posting low quality content as fast as possible while they're around

VOTE: Double the trouble

Scummy and nobody is vouching for them

[Dunnstral]

This isn't a red flag?

No, but since nobody thinks they're town, let's get them out of here

[Dunnstral]

Keeps shading me for no literal reason.

quote it

[Dunnstral]

reread what 243 says

And calling you annoying isn't shading

[Dunnstral]

Why the Ircher scumreads?

[Dunnstral]

Town!Ali is way more passive

You have 5x the median of posts

[Dunnstral]

6x

[Dunnstral]

Out of this list of four BattleMage is the one I'd want eliminated the most

Dunnstral and Ircher I would fight against and Double the Trouble I'd need to be thoroughly convinced

Well Battlemage hasn't really done anything yet, so it would be more of a shot in the dark, in my opinion

Double Trouble comes off looking pretty bad, in my opinion, and is a good sanity elim

[Dunnstral]

Double Trouble comes off looking pretty bad, in my opinion, and is a good sanity elim

why are you ignoring me?

There's too much thread bloat, and I don't really want to engage with you/noraa/pichu/ydrasse right now

[Dunnstral]

Defend your stance or die.

Try me

[Dunnstral]

Why are you reading from the first page, now?

[Dunnstral]

Show me these spammy posts?

- Norwee

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=34694

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf
Because this MF didn't make me scum.

First person to tell me to vote for someone gets it.

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake

Can you explain this vote actually Dunn

talking to the scum tree stump

[Dunnstral]

Dunn SRs Ircher and Ircher TRs Dunn.

You're going to have to quote where I scumread Ircher, because I don't agree

[Dunnstral]

weird that the polar bear and ircher counterwagons showed up in response to Dunnstral
i think that's a good sign

Perhaps Dunn is scum indeed

You realize these wagons didn't "show up in response" to me, they were already being voted and then two people voted me?

[Dunnstral]

Your scumreads aren't more valuable when hidden

Also, there are some big names lumped into "everyone else" while double doesn't belong there

[Dunnstral]

What big names are you referring to?
I don't know I played with scum ali recently it was not easily forgettable.

Reads wise you should have an idea on people like Spiffeh and mastina

[Dunnstral]

Your wagon has all your suspects because you omgus anyone who votes you

Go back and look at when they started to "suspect" me

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn- I know. Maybe it’s due to the lack of volume here compared to there? Like I said I wasn’t feeling any kinda way about it I just clocked it.

VOTE: BM

Let’s kill this double. Truce?

I was actually more engaged in Xenoblade, it's just that the pace was lightning fast so I didn't seem as impressive in comparison

This game has less posts but it's harder to read/engage with because Ydrasse, Pichu, Double the Trouble, Polar Bear Express, and Pooky are all posting low quality content as fast as possible while they're around

VOTE: Double the trouble

Scummy and nobody is vouching for them

I vote them here

In their iso, ctrl + f their mentions of me, they are unsure/radio silence up until I vote them, and then they start asking for reads on me and wrinkling their forehead

[Dunnstral]

I don’t do that on D1, I’ll vote here.
VOTE: Ircher

By the by, this vote puts Ircher at e-2, so follow this now:

Do not put anyone at E-1. The closest anyone should get is E-2, at which point I will do an exit interview with them and decide if we should get claim/eliminate the slot thanks.

[Dunnstral]

@Those on the Ircher/Trouble/BM wagons:

What's the best reason you want to elim the person you are voting for?

Double the Trouble has been obsessed with me ever since I voted them, continuing to pester me when I made it clear I wasn't going to engage with them, they have started to play like the entire game revolves around them, asking for votes between themself and me, and continuously referring back to their own ability to their own ability to read someone.

But perhaps the biggest reason to vote for them is simply that they're annoying. They're annoying, and they're not particularly likely to be town. I mentioned I thought Pichu, Ydrasse, Double were being annoying: I think Ydrasse and Pichu are likely town, I don't think the same for Double.

@Everyone

Who would you like to add to the POE-4 if we do a rotation? Who would you like to remove? State a reason(1 submission each)

Remove Ircher, add... let's say Solstice, they've been pushing some questionable things, mainly focused around defending Double Trouble for some reason, surprisingly under the radar aside from that. A couple of people have voiced suspicion there but nothing happened because of the artificial thunderdome thing going on.

[Dunnstral]

In fact it's likely a scum strat to flood the game talking about me while their partners coast

[Dunnstral]

Battle Mage - If he's softing a PR then I don't really care about poking this tree right now. I feel like I just feel like there are more productive things to do?

I agree with all you say regarding Battle Mage. And i think that’s the better vote over Ircher because all of my meta experience with BM tells me something isn’t right. This is not their towngame.
VOTE: Battle Mage

- Norwee

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Battle Mage

lim-3

[Dunnstral]

I would trust Pooky’s reads over Noraa’s when they differ. So, I would trust his read on BM’s over Noraa’s if that helps.

Pooky has never given a read on Battle Mage

[Dunnstral]

And in Xenoblade 2 he was effortlessly town and after his latest catchup posts I'm not getting that vibe at all

I agree

[Dunnstral]

Pooky, do you know the roles in the setup but not who has what role? If so, would it be useful for me to tell you my role (in a way nobody else would possibly know)?

What would be the point of going out of your way to soft vt?

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: Battle Mage

VOTE: Solstice

Morning Tweet is kind of feeling like scum to me

[Dunnstral]

I think that Solstice looks better from reaction to pressure, mostly skimming

And Bm still looks pretty bad

VOTE: Battle Mage

[Dunnstral]

2 pushing Norwee for spam, then 2 backtracking from pushing Norwee for spam. (I quite like this, in that he attacked a loud slot, and wasn't afraid to back down. there's a question on the phraseology though, it reads slightly awkward to me.)

You like this? I've neither been particularly loud or spammy. Especially when compared to certain other slots.

- Norwee

holy moly

[Dunnstral]

Yes, Mastina is calling me confscum here, in the same way she did when we were Morning Mage.

[yeah that's what i was worried about. And you're assuming her reads are all off the mark, just like that game as well -- i just don't trust you two scumreading/pushing each other much lol]

interesting here you suggest you don't agree with Ircher defending me....yet you hadn't really commented on me at all prior to this. :shifty:

Can you talk me through your read here?

[i think Double was confirm biased, more or less, early while scumreading you, i didn't find the whole searching for your name ordeal scummy. i also hilariously enough am not reading mastina's posts on why you're a liar much cause I think she suffers from some kind of bias as well]

[i am pretty bad at reading you, worse than you know, and I haven't really gotten any pings in either direction. I think you could be scum in spite of what i have seen from Double/mastina, and it's also very possible im discrediting mastina falsely. If i were confident in a townread i'd oppose the wagon but I am fine with it at the moment. I prefer Ircher/Creature though]

[i think your reads are largely good in 1912 although I'm unsure on Double being scummy.]

[I see that you found Norwe's interactions with you to be bad faith. The only problem is I'm not sure that necessitates him being scum at all]

[do you have an opinion on Ircher, btw?]

~Morning

i find this post off as well but struggling to explain why
i think it comes down to mostly being

gut

the norwee take is too hand sanitizer cleany though
the take on BM himself also has a scummy line
the "If i were confident in a townread i'd oppose the wagon but I am fine with it at the moment."
you know what i mean????
someone help me articulate
it's like... she's making sure to VERY clearly outline her stance in a way where she's overdoing it and it comes off as unnatural
something like that

Yes, something like that. Everything there has a qualifier that tones it down. "I think" "ordeal scummy" "Pretty bad" "Could be scum in spite of"...
and yes, thats scummy.
VOTE: Solstice

VOTE: Battle Mage
It's time to end this day.

[Dunnstral]

Can anyone read Morning Tweet here?

I think they look town in response to the pressure from day 1

[Dunnstral]

I'm basically caught up.
My solve was wrong and BM town makes Murder look perhaps slightly better but I entirely bow down to gloria's reads here anyways. His push on us is bad.

I read the whole meta case and felt it was a huge waste of my time reading it.

There are too many reasons why it's wrong but I don't care enough to write up an entire case on why just to get discredited cuz sElF mEtA

Murder, I am more than capable of being cutesy for one entire game as scum. I am more than capable of producing huge ginormous reads as scum as well.

The reason I dropped the babytalk is cuz I've been feeling super moody lately. I made some alts with more serious personalities to help me have some sort of outlet for my anger/sadness from various things. I was having one hell of a time trying to be happy this game. Im not trying to guilt trip/AtE with this but I just wanted to say that you don't understand what's happening on my side of the screen and a bubbly online personality isn't easy to keep when you're not feeling that way. I won't mention this again but I do hope you take this into account if you actually are town.

Creature doesn't seem to justify any of his votes/reads which ... this may sound mean but is far less than what I expect from someone with a 2016 join date.

Ok short reads list for Ircher.

Ircher - promoted to TL
mastina - still think they are a strong TR, yesterdays entire play spewed town
Solstice - also think strong TR, yesterdays entire play also spewed town, especially the case on BM, felt extremely genuine
Pichu - demoted to TL
after these three there basically are only nulls/SRs
The most important ones imo are probably
Murder- strong SR
Double - SL
Creature- SL

Something like this?
The SRs is messy. I'm not really decided cuz I feel like a ton of people look really scummy if u sit down and think about it and there are places where Gloria didn't really agree so .. idk.

-noraa

Holy moly, if only you posted like this all game instead of whatever you were doing

[Dunnstral]

imagine targetting the player that claims VT as a detective
holy shit

Detective only checks if they've killed or not, vt claim doesn't factor in

[Dunnstral]

The target seems fine to me

The role itself is pretty weak in a game of this size

like why would toogeloo ever perform a kill
like ever

if anyone performs the kill on the scumteam its probably the more scummier person because that way if they do get caught by a guilty then the information that is given to the town is fairly limited.

Like if Toogeloo got caught performing a kill it would be terrible.

That's your opinion

[Dunnstral]

There isn't enough role info out in the open to determine whether the claim is likely fake or not.

The claim itself is believable, despite your reservations. i think the target is fine, you talking about what scum would do is your opinion.

[Dunnstral]

Reminder that the night kill thought Polar Bear was really town

[Dunnstral]

Bell is pretty town and it's pretty clear the town treestump doesn't know what they're doing

Having two of the same uncommon role claim in the game makes them both more likely to be true

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Creature

[Dunnstral]

By definition I hope it isn't. I never really challenged it for my brain's well being.

It's more likely for a mod to include two of the same role in the game than it is for someone to fakeclaim an uncommon role and have it show up in the game elsewhere

[Dunnstral]

Pichu's cases are easy to pick apart if you think about it.

@Pedit: Dunnstral must be scum because he believed me lmao.

Uh, no

I had you as town after the early game

[Dunnstral]

If Detective is as weak as the claim sounds, having two in town with the exact same modifiers doesn't seem implausible. You have to literally catch the killer that night, right?

In fact if you both are claiming the exact same thing on a rather obscure role, it seems more plausible you are both town.

Coincidentally went to iso Toogeloo and they said the same thing, seems towny

[Dunnstral]

[I'm not in "very likely town" territory though. You're not scum are you Dunn? cause that'd just be embarrassing at this point]

The role claim stuff is neutral/leaning town

Bell's reaction and tone seems town

[Dunnstral]

I'm giving DEB a pass for now though since their claim is believable as well

[Dunnstral]

And you know what, I also thought Pichu and Ydrasse were masons

That's why I pushed Double Trouble, and not them

If they're not mason's, I'm willing to vote for them.

[Dunnstral]

I'm pretty sure Pichu has been angling to call me scum if Bell flips town

[Dunnstral]

Do you have a single other scumread than Noraa?
There are like 4 scum.

Noraa
1 of Bell/DEB
mastina??
Toog??
Dunn??

Something like that probably for me right now

ah Murder is scum

[Dunnstral]

Creature asking for people to reconsider because me because I voted him looks bad

[Dunnstral]

I'd vote for Ydrasse too

I suspect any number of Murdercat/Creature/Ydrasse right now

[Dunnstral]

Noraa and mastina are my two odds on faves for scum.

Unlikely

[Dunnstral]

ah Murder is scum

Say more friend

I townread every single one of your 'scumreads'
And you were keeping your reads close earlier as if you had something special, then came out with the most generic copy pasted reads possible

[Dunnstral]

So I'm thinking this.

We elim DEB today, if DEB flips red vig kills ???
if DEB flips green, vig kills Bell?

So you think it's impossible for both to be town?

[Dunnstral]

Okay, then.

Where's the rest of the scum?

Creature being scum isn't enough; there'd be three others, and you're townreading two of the by far most likely scum candidates.

Where's the other three scum if you are town and think Bell is town and think Toog is townie?

So you think it's impossible for both to be town?

i find DEB's crumb timing to be very convenient and susp af.

like if you are going to crumb your PR, you do it d1, you don't do it on d2. it makes no sense to me except as rolecop setting up a CC.

OK. DEB still hasn't done anything except claim a role and then vanish and prodge anyway,

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake

[Dunnstral]

[What was the point of having scum CC Bell, though? What do they gain from that? That is what i struggle with.]

~Morning

it's the extra little push that gets bell over the hump, and also after bell flips green DEB can always play the 2-detectives angle - the wifom trap is specifically "why would I counter-claim a dead man?"

I think their goal was to just hardpush bell through there and demoralize the town, which would imply people on the higher end of the influence pool are scum.

I think specifically Spiff. His reaction did not feel like a real reaction to me.

Take a look at Creature

[Dunnstral]

Vt. Spiffeh, Mastina, DEB, Solstice, Ircher town. Ydrasse scum.

[Dunnstral]

Upon review, my reads indicate that Polar bear and toogeloo are scum. I do think Toog is scum, polar bear is null

[Dunnstral]

Speaking of, I have never ever heard of Solstice’s role in any game ever, so if true and it seems very unlikely to be a fakeclaim, there obviously has to be an actual supersaint in this game.

Nobody has claimed it so they're either a named townie, lying, or scum has the role

[Dunnstral]

A Super Saint is a Vengeful Townie who only kills the person who placed the hammer vote (they do not get to choose).

Something to keep in mind. Solstice probably should have claimed this earlier.

[Dunnstral]

I suspect it's probably a mafia role

[Dunnstral]

Supersaint Enabler is kinda eh. I mean, it does raise some eyebrows, but I don't think it's really alignment indicative in either direction.

It has implications beyond their alignment

[Dunnstral]

He's lying, I didn't go anywhere

[Dunnstral]

which is like, whatever, as long as you hold him accountable

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Doctor Easy Bake

[Dunnstral]

he's the supersaint.

[Dunnstral]

you know what, just elim me and vig him

[Dunnstral]

We have a vig, scum likely has a supersaint

[Dunnstral]

For the record, I'm not the vig

[Dunnstral]

Why?

[Dunnstral]

if we decide to go w/ ur elim it covers all of the options :good:

What does it do besides get me closer to elim?

That's not how supersaint works

[Dunnstral]

[Ooh I like eliminating DEB with Dunn as a hammer since I lean he's the scum and if he's not actually a supersaint, then we lose no townies unnecessarily. If he is a supersaint, then it was unavoidable since we'd have eliminated Dunn anyway]

[Of course.. if it's obvious to others that DEB is the townie, then it would make no sense to do so. but Misty really thought Dunn was town and I personally just find DEB's behaviour to be wacky and incredibly coincidental in so many ways. He's probably one of the more suspected players on his team.. he has the role Bell claims.. he manages to hit the one guilty player in the game on his second try.. his crumb was delayed.. and he doesn't really have much to read off of other than this stuff.]

[I don't really know the "correct" scum plays, though, so I don't know if it's actually worth it for them to sacrifice DEB in order to potentially find or get closer to the vigilante. I would think it is if they felt that had a good shot at landing. Beyond that though, seems like a bad idea to do a 1 for 1 trade that you aren't sure will hit someone important.]

~Morning

I don't, it doesn't make sense for me to hammer DEB since it's implied we think he's lying

It's probably best just to shoot him at night regardless, or let toogaloo hammer

[Dunnstral]

like I guarantee you I will be more suspicious of you if u aren't using ur vote on yourself.
If we go by your plan if ur town which is kill you vig deb, which u seem to be ok with since u suggest it yourself, then you should be okay with voting yourself if it makes me feel just a little bit more safe.

Fine

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Dunnstral]

DEB being supersaint makes a lot of sense

Scum team was hopign DEB would die instead of Bell, and that Bell would look better, while DEb kills someone else

[Dunnstral]

Well no, I didn't say DEB was scum actually

[Dunnstral]

Not on day 2

[Dunnstral]

Sorry hold on. I did vote for him, following what other people suggested. Originally I said both claims could be town

[Dunnstral]

DEB being supersaint makes a lot of sense

Scum team was hopign DEB would die instead of Bell, and that Bell would look better, while DEb kills someone else

The thing that worries me about this tho is no one actually went out of their way to say "Ya, Bell is town and DEB is scum" here except Pooky and you. Are you suggesting that scum would just think that the town would just think that they would swap over to DEB > Bell because DEB claimed Bell's role?

I think they wanted Bell to be townread more

[Dunnstral]

I think the play is to vig DEB

The question is, do I have to die first for that to happen, or no

Right now it sounds like DEB can be shot without getting me first

[Dunnstral]

whats ur read on solstice?

Town

[Dunnstral]

To be fair I'm townreading mastina too but there are three scum left so I feel like it has to be her at this point

Mastina does not have to be scum from your listed reads, current or previous

[Dunnstral]

Vt. Spiffeh, Mastina, DEB, Solstice, Ircher town. Ydrasse scum.

Upon review, my reads indicate that Polar bear and toogeloo are scum. I do think Toog is scum, polar bear is null

My reads, except DEB was who I was wrong on, and Polar bear is probably town. The scum are DEB, Ydrasse, Toogaloo

These are also your reads (or were? you dragged mastina in there for some reason), except you've been arguing against my favor for the past few weeks

[Dunnstral]

Toogeloo, Ydrasse, maybe Dunn? Are where I'd look next for scum

To be fair I'm townreading mastina too but there are three scum left so I feel like it has to be her at this point

[Dunnstral]

DEB was my only townread that was based off of a claim/coutner-claim, the rest of my reads were by play

[Dunnstral]

He counterclaimed because he's the supersaint and he thought Bell had enough cred to survive

[Dunnstral]

Dunny who's your guess for the scum team rn?

DEB/Ydrasse, third and least confident read is Toogaloo

[Dunnstral]

Did Solstice crumb supersaint anywhere?

They didn't soft anything

Also, they're claiming supersaint enabler

[Dunnstral]

It was a long term play that was supposed to benefit bell, while letting town push the supersaint, and then pointing to those players the next days. It didn't work for them

[Dunnstral]

Norwee no offense but I kinda hope you're the first mason to die so I don't have to deal with you in future days!

Don’t worry. Our hydra will die first. It’s pretty much non-negotiable.

- Norwee

Can I convince you to get Ydrasse or Toogeloo over Spiffeh?

[Dunnstral]

Toog is part poe, part he was bushing bell/deb as both town a bit last day, and part that he is mostly coasting.

I don't really see them as town, and I'm townreading a lot of other people

[Dunnstral]

Who do you think the third scum is?

Right now you think it's one of me/DEB, Spiffeh, ____, right?

[Dunnstral]

Toogeloo has had bad takeaways all game

[Dunnstral]

DEB hard sacced himself to take me out

Seems out of place, but ok

[Dunnstral]

She hasn't done anything but fluff post

[Dunnstral]

You think Spiffeh is aligned with me, does that apply for us both being town?

And if that is the case, do you think polar bears is scum still?

[Dunnstral]

and u 2 feel like teammates who both identified that they were on the same team.

Is that something scum does in thread?

[Dunnstral]

Nobody has claimed it so they're either a named townie, lying, or scum has the role

Possible, but also possible: it's a red herring to make us paranoid of a scum supersaint.

There's no downside to playing as if there is a scum supersaint at this point in time

That means masons aren't the last person to vote, and ideally we vig DEB when I flip town

That isn't so hard

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, I don't know when the kill happened, just that at some point they killed someone.
It could have been N1, N2, or both.
Technically it's not even a full inno or anything from Ircher, but my result coupled with their actions pretty much clears them in my book.

The Dunn guilty means he killed at least once but the Ircher inno means Ircher never killed anyone, right?

So, how isn’t it a full inno then or am I misunderstanding this?

Just because you didn't kill someone, doesn't mean you're not scum.

You know how they send only one of them to perform the kill.

In any case, he's lying about his role.

[Dunnstral]

He's expecting the rest to elim Spiffeh while I'm dead

[Dunnstral]

I could obviously vote Dunn here but I'm not obsessed with the mafiascum equivalent of K/DA (that is, needing to be on a scum elimination)

Clearly not since your reads have been awful all game

[Dunnstral]

[I think having Dr Easy guilty Dunn today is game-losing for scum and i don't really see why it wouldn't be]

Not game-losing. Probably a bad trade, objectively. They could have theorized that I was vig, since there was no shot last night.

[Dunnstral]

I don't see why this player gets drafted like ever.

Bad argument

- his response to Pooky introducing a PoE was more likely to come from town

Even if the poe is all town?

not knowing how mechanics works is a towntell and this is shown in the fact he doesn't know anything about the fact that FL can suggest 2 "rules"

Can be faked easily

- who is this player's teammates? Like, where are they bro?

It's DEB and he faked a guilty and has 0 interaction with anyone else
And Bell who is dead

That leaves 1 other person who can be his teammate

Bad argument

[Dunnstral]

- why does scum go out of their way to fake all not knowing how not known died?

To look like town

[Dunnstral]

3 masons + vig is 4 confirmed town

We should have never trusted an investigative claim

[Dunnstral]

Even if the poe is all town?

The PoE of {Me, Ircher, Dunn, BM} which has 2 confirmed town 1 likely town and then a guiltied player

ya probably.

None of this was true at the time

[Dunnstral]

Huh.

I'm saying him being fine with the poe isn't a point in his favor if everyone in that poe turns out to be town.

[Dunnstral]

So my town flip means toogeloo dies anyway?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Toogeloo

[Dunnstral]

Ircher could be scum hidden in the townies

Doesn't he have a good grasp of setup balance? How is he ok with the implication of 3 masons, a cop, a vigilante, and a detective?

[Dunnstral]

Drafting people who stay under the radar is a losing strategy in this setup.

Dr Easy Bake is under the radar.

[Dunnstral]

We're wasting time now

All this speculation fails once it's revealed DEB is the scum

[Dunnstral]

Toog is mafia yes

He's not getting away

[Dunnstral]

How noble of Toogeloo to offer to hammer me, despite the great risk involved

[Dunnstral]

How noble of Toogeloo to offer to hammer me

[Dunnstral]

lol mastina stop

You're going to have to deal with this all day tomorrow, closing your eyes today won't make it go away

[Dunnstral]

I'm not really scumreading polar bears, honestly

[Dunnstral]

how noble of toog to offer to be the vig shot when the vig already has to shoot the supersaint

[Dunnstral]

lol mastina stop

You're going to have to deal with this all day tomorrow, closing your eyes today won't make it go away

[Dunnstral]

It's a 17p setup, and we have no idea what scum has. Well, I guess it's reasonable to suppose that scum don't have a roleblocker. 3 masons in a 13p mini normal is considered close to balanced.

3 masons in a 13p game

3 masons, a vig, a cop, and a detective in a 17p game?

[Dunnstral]

That's not the setup, actually:

Strong-willed Simple Disloyal Vanilla Cop
Roaming Doctor
Informed townie
3 masons
Vigilante
Detective

And you think the mafia team is all goons?

[Dunnstral]

Well, I guess it's reasonable to suppose that scum don't have a roleblocker.

The cop is strong-willed, I assume the opposite

[Dunnstral]

That's not the setup, actually:

Strong-willed Simple Disloyal Vanilla Cop
Roaming Doctor
Informed townie
3 masons
Vigilante
Detective

And you think the mafia team is all goons?

Oh and Supersaint Enabler...

[Dunnstral]

Alright so you don't think it's all goons.
Still, thinking DEB's role can exist at all is mind boggling at this point

[Dunnstral]

No, the best play is to lim toogeloo and then shoot DEB

[Dunnstral]

You brought up a good point that Pichu was strong willed but DEB is claiming a result anyway.

[Dunnstral]

If he's a town detective, why wasn't he roleblocked...

[Dunnstral]

It can't roleblock the cop which is its gate

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake
We're on evens.

I think there is enough mechanical doubt on DEB to where it would be correct to lim them even if I were scum

Let's eliminate DEB today, Toogaloo hammers, if both slots aren't mafia together, vig can shoot me too. If toog doesn't hammer and It's supersaint, shoot/lim toog

[Dunnstral]

Actually, strong-willed is a good sign there is a roleblocker. If there is a mafia roleblocker, then it becomes reasonable again that DEB is a town detective here.

3x Masons + Strong-Willed Simple Disloyal Vanilla Cop + Roaming Doc + Odd-Night Vigilante + Detective + Supersaint Enabler vs. Odd Night Roleblocker + Investigative Role + 2x Goon doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, especially when I think it was advertised the setup is roughly balanced here but not guaranteed.

I don't think the enabler is a red herring.

Supersaint + full roleblocker, without the detective, feels balanced to me

[Dunnstral]

And you know if I were scum I'd have brought up this strong-willed thing 1000 posts ago

[Dunnstral]

If masons think that if I'm mafia, I'm supersaint, because I didn't claim vig.

And that DEB is also very likely mafia, before considering mech stuff

Then yeah, the 'optimal play' was not to elim me

[Dunnstral]

disloyal strong-willed vanilla cop--disloyal

nah, Pichu was Simple, only could get the goons

other game that just ended

[Dunnstral]

oh, vanilla works the same