PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Battle Mage]

Yo where my man Battle Mage at, he knows his shit.
Call out to mah boiiiii.

- Norwee

I'm here buddy. 28 pages on the weekend I'm VLA.

shiiiiiiit

I'm town anyway, I guess Pooky wasn't given the opportunity to pick me.

Team FL go go go!

[Battle Mage]

HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up

i saw 28 pages

i used search function for "battle mage"

I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.

i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

[Battle Mage]

Yo where my man Battle Mage at, he knows his shit.
Call out to mah boiiiii.

- Norwee

I'm here buddy. 28 pages on the weekend I'm VLA.

shiiiiiiit

I'm town anyway, I guess Pooky wasn't given the opportunity to pick me.

Team FL go go go!

Have you been reading?

....no. see VLA.

[Battle Mage]

HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up

i saw 28 pages

i used search function for "battle mage"

I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.

i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

i mean yes but why

i dunno, never done it before tbh. *shrug*

[Battle Mage]

Despite having not posted anything of value, or read anything of significance - I am Mastina's top scumread.

Familiarity and predictability warm my heart.

Scummy and nobody is vouching for them

*raises hand*
Well, actually......

(I am in fact strongly townreading them.)

it's harder to read/engage with because Ydrasse, Pichu, Double the Trouble, Polar Bear Express, and Pooky are all posting low quality content

I agree, especially Ydrasse, pichu and Polar Bear Express.

This is an INCREDIBLY bad take from Creature and I am inclined to think that such a horrendously bad series of posts from Creature is strongly indicative of him being scum.

I don't think Pichu's content is low quality.

Agreed; 1102 is quite a good example of good content from pichu.

Ok I don't like Ydrasse's posting

This is a very bad take from Spiffeh and it makes me more and more fond of my scumteam theory.

Which, to remind people:
Is Battle Mage, Spiffeh, Creature, and one more, yet-to-be-certain name. Current candidates for fourth are, in my opinion: {Not Known 15, MURDERCAT, Dr Easy Bake, Ircher}. (In no particular order.)

I actually am quite liking this solve because BM is looking like scum, I haven't liked Spiffeh's pushes or reasons, Creature looks like he's pretty damn scum, so from there it's just POE to find the fourth.

[Battle Mage]

im sorry did you guys get lost on your way to the world championship of shitposting over at EpicMafia or something.

is there anything I need to go back and read in the first 45 pages, or can we start afresh tomorrow?

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage is my bro

we go way back

he would never betray me for some random new-school dude

I got you man. Be sure to tell these folks I'm town

[Battle Mage]

i've skimmed some things...am i really being scumread for being VLA over the weekend and not posting? I mean, presumably that's all it can be, but dang.

a good townie takes a view on these things based on activity across all games. Median post-rate during VLA across the whole population is a viable metric.

[Battle Mage]

that being said, if this is a simple day 1 where i only need to focus on defending myself, that works for me

[Battle Mage]

that being said, if this is a simple day 1 where i only need to focus on defending myself, that works for me

You don't have any reads?

- Norwee

I'm not intending to read anything properly whilst VLA, no. I'll be around again from tomorrow night.

[Battle Mage]

Isn't the natural instinctive reaction to BM annoyance and a vote.

...I'm getting shaded like this already without even doing anything? man I need an alt or something.

I felt like Norwe had kinship with BM and always getting voted and that's why they seemed on good terms or at least, my fan fiction team is furiously drafting that story in my head as to how they know each other and why they like each other.

I think Norwee strongly dislikes me? I'm pretty neutral on him I guess - good player though!

[Battle Mage]

People need to stop shading Battle Mage for not posting when he said multiple times that he is V/LA on the weekends.

ah thanks mate. <3

[Battle Mage]

Should I wifom?

I did not get my number 1 pick.

haha figures - you can pick me next time mate!

I propose that after Xenoblade mafia, Flavor leaf swiftly picked Spiffeh to be on his team to redeem himself
VOTE: Spiffeh

If we're doing team speculation:
FL knows that I am straight-laced and will never fakeclaim and will always realclaim and won't go along with his gambits. That doesn't mean he wouldn't recruit me (tho I can tell you he didn't), but it does mean that if he did, he'd have to deliberately incorporate my lack of cooperation into the scumteam, in finding a plan that relies on my truthful claim setting up a lying scum to create a solution where town can't find the solve.

I imagine that I am not the only player this applies to.
So if he recruited a player like me who can't spin an elaborate web of lies, he would by necessity need to recruit only one of said players and mostly recruit players that're more likely to be able to spin his signature web of lies.

Double the Trouble (Alisae and NorwegianboyEE) <--Would be an excellent web of liars.
Nextflix and Chill (notscience and Brian Skies) <--Would be an incredibly bad pair of liars.
Spiffeh <--Plausible as both, actually.
Creature <--Would be an incredibly bad liar.
Polar Bear Express (Noraa and Gloria Cleary) <--Has proven to be an incredibly good liar.
Ydrasse <--I don't know who this is so have no gauge; if FL similarly doesn't have a gauge, would be risky to recruit as a liar.
Solstice (Mistyx and Morning Tweet) <--I think they count as bad liars, but not sure.
pichu <--I don't know who this is so have no gauge; if FL similarly doesn't have a gauge, would be risky to recruit as a liar.
Not Known 15 <--Probably a good liar?
Toogeloo <--Might be both? Not sure, would need to double-check.
MURDERCAT <--I don't remember, need to check.
Battle Mage <--Probably a good liar.
Bell <--FL has a much better gauge on Bell than I do, so I don't know.
Dr Easy Bake <--FL's defacto liar, the person best suited to following his plan.
Dunnstral <--Good liar.
Ircher <--I actually don't know, but I imagine FL does.

So there's probably a maximum of one scum in:
{Netflix and Chill, Creature, Solstice}, possibly more in the list of names I'm not sure on.
0-1 scum in there.

And the majority of the scum I'd expect to be in {Double the Trouble, Polar Bear Express, Not Know 15, Battle Mage, Dunnstral, Dr Easy Bake}.
There's going to be 2-3 scum in there probably.

With the wildcards being {Spiffeh, Ydrasse, pichu, Toogaloo, MURDERCAT, Bell, Ircher}.
Containing 0-2 scum in here, probably 0-1 if I had to guess.

VOTE: Polar Bear Express.
I'm pretty sure that FL would absolutely love to get his hands on Noraa as an agent of his. Of the slots in the game, the only one who'd be more FL-friendly is DEB but everyone knows about the FL-DEB relationship and FL knows everyone knows about the FL-DEB relationship and that's a literal WIFOM situation that we could add layers to for days on if FL picked DEB or not, so I'm going not with the most obvious candidate (DEB) but the second most likely candidate.

I'd be staggered if FL selected the Polar Bear Express to be scum in this game.

I figure his top pick was the Norwee-Alisae hydra. whether he got them or not, I couldn't say.

[Battle Mage]

@Mastina - Do you think I wouldn't be aware of you analyzing my drafts if I wasn't going to pick you?

This interaction makes me like Mastina-scum. I don't think FL engages like this with Mastina-town here.

I was so happy I got it too. Mastina and Dunnstral were the first bans the first draft.

1 scum, 1 town here?

Uh, i find it really unlikely that Flavor would draft Noraa btw.

Why?

reasons.

yeah agree with this. Townpoints for Bell.

Whelp Noraa's town.
That wasn't hard tho.

15 to go.

definitely

I don't agree, I don't think that post makes sense timing-wise if he already thought noraa was town from draft reasons

I believe scum would not start the game TRing town Noraa

sweet, call me locktown!

*holds your other hand*

how about now?

yeah something just feels right about Ydrasse-scum here. FL picking Pooky's true love to stab him in the heart, it's poetic.

Every single person in this game except Mastina messaged me to draft them.

i thought Pooky was picking

c-can i be a soul mason?

you can be half a soul
have a quarter each

i wanna be a FULL one

drop me a song that resonates with your current vibes

this has been stuck in my head all day

and @pooky i'd never turn you on!!!!

I'm skeptical about this

[Battle Mage]

can someone give me a heads up if i get to -1 so i can claim? lol

[Battle Mage]

I laughed at 511 from Toogeloo. Toogeloo-town.

[Battle Mage]

can someone give me a heads up if i get to -1 so i can claim? lol

ugh why do this

it's best to give warning when you put someone at E-1 so they can claim, in case they are a power role, or just because it's good practice/good for the game.

[Battle Mage]

Official Vote Count 1.11

Ircher

(6): Solstice, Netflix and Chill, MURDERCAT, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Toogeloo

Double the Trouble

(4): Dunnstral, pichu, Ydrasse, Not Known 15

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

Bell

(1): Creature

Ydrasse

(1): Ircher

Dunnstral

(1): Double the Trouble

Battle Mage

(1): mastina

Not Voting

(2): Dr Easy Bake, Battle Mage

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-12-14 16:00:00)

Good job guys. No prods needed.

You have 1 vote on you?

i'm reading in chronological order so I didn't know that. I saw a few votes come my way early. Better safe than sorry!

also better VOTE: double the trouble as I owe Ircher one.

[Battle Mage]

actually i already know my answer and i think it’d be very funny if i drafted an all hydra scumteam

8 brains on the case 24/7

VOTE: double the trouble

this is fine

nah Ydrasse-town I guess. I forgot we were scum together once so I have a bit of experience with you. I'm getting there.

[Battle Mage]

Morning Tweet could be scum here. A good choice if Flavor made it. One to watch. I'm on page 27 phew...

[Battle Mage]

BM with the greatposting

I was just about to say I liked Pichu for post 683 and then I saw this beauty. welcome to the townblock.

[Battle Mage]

emojis are a scumtell :3

~mist

i suspect you're finding this hydra hard work.

[Battle Mage]

Also there's a bunch of James Bond movies that are free to watch on youtube right now.
I spent last night watching From Russia with Love and Goldfinger.
What am I watching next, Dr. No or Tomorrow Never Dies?

HEEEEEEEELP

You only live twice is the best James Bond film. As it's written by Roald Dahl and their my distant relative.

- Norwee

You're claiming a familial relationship with Roald Dahl under little-no pressure? Over-defensive much?

[Battle Mage]

ok as you can tell I've run out of steam...I'll keep going tomorrow until I catch up

[Battle Mage]

I love structure, thanks Pooky.

[Battle Mage]

so after consulting for a long time with my ace team of mason friends we have come up with this POE-4;

we will eliminate someone from this list today:

Double Trouble
Ircher
Battle Mage
Dunnstral

Pls don't put anyone within 2 votes of being elim'd I'd like to do some final heart-heart talk with the victim first thanks!

btw I am very happy with how the POE-4 is going - you guys are all doing a great job

if you aren't voting for someone in the POE-4 you should do so and have a reason preferably.

every1 already voting in the POE-4 pls give me your top SR and top TR in the POE-4 with reasons thanks.

DT
BM
Dunn
Ircher

I think. Ali isn't hyperposting and controlling stuff, Ircher has weird reads.

hold on a minute...Pooky you want to elim me Day 1?

[Battle Mage]

Sad to see Flavour picked you this game Battle Mage.

- Norwee

I guarantee Titus veto'd me first to ensure this wouldn't be a scum walkover

[Battle Mage]

Pooky must be scum.

lol I am shocked and disappointed.

[Battle Mage]

Sad to see Flavour picked you this game Battle Mage.

- Norwee

I guarantee Titus veto'd me first to ensure this wouldn't be a scum walkover

let me know where your head is at in general when you get a chance and have something you feel like is good enough to share

will do - aint got much so far. a few good townreads: Bell, Noraa-hydra, Pichu, Ydrasse maybe. I haven't got to the bit where Pooky picks his list of 4 yet (which incidentally, is a great idea, if I'm not on the list )

[Battle Mage]

you are in fact
on the list

I know, I can't believe it

[Battle Mage]

why do you feel like its a great idea and what do you think of the people who don't think its a great idea and their reasons for it?
Let me quote the stuff for you so its easier for you to find

I can only comment on the first part of the question for now:

It allows the 1 conftown to choose the potential lim pool and control the agenda. Pooky can also manipulate it to fk with scum expectations, move the goalposts as he pleases to get as much info as possible. Masterful strategy!

[Battle Mage]

So while I ultimately want to get your ok before pushing an elimination through I think it's way too early in the Day, especially the FIRST Day, to limit the elim-pool already. Now anyone outside of this list won't have any genuine reactions to pressure because they know they won't even be on the table anyway

I strongly urge you to consider not limiting our options at this time

Also I saw the town treestump post a lim pool for today, and I think that's an awful post for several reasons: 1) we still have a whole week 2) some of the people in your PoE aren't fully caught up and the game just began like 2 days ago 3) this is just a bad strategy in general because it gives scum license to focus their reads there and ignore doing actual scumhunting elsewhere. I would advise the stump to reconsider.

I think both are mistaken, as they assume Pooky will actually just stick with that list of 4. In reality, he may or may not - at his own discretion. BUT I don't think either are necessarily scum indicative, although the vernacular and tone are creepily similar...

In Stumpy we trust.

[Battle Mage]

Pooky, do you know the roles in the setup but not who has what role? If so, would it be useful for me to tell you my role (in a way nobody else would possibly know)?

[Battle Mage]

lol no mastina, i havent secretly read the thread. i've read up to where i said i read upto.

you've taken 1 quote from when i was vla, and 1 from when i wasnt, and conflated the two to suggest my approach to activity is contradictory.

lame.

can someone give me a heads up if i get to -1 so i can claim? lol

it's best to give warning when you put someone at E-1 so they can claim, in case they are a power role, or just because it's good practice/good for the game.

To reiterate:

Battle Mage claimed yesterday that, while on his V/LA, he was not reading the thread.
Battle Mage is asking that, if he is put to L-1, for it to be announced.
If Battle Mage was not reading the thread,

how would he be able to see the declaration of being at L-1

?

To see that he's at L-1 inherently requires that he is reading the thread enough to know it has happened...something he previously said he wasn't doing. To refresh your memory:

HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

He claimed he responded to the message not due to reading the thread, but finding it with a search.

HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

i mean yes but why

i dunno, never done it before tbh. *shrug*

But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.

So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.

Which is cemented here:

also better VOTE: double the trouble as I owe Ircher one.

This post is indicative that Battle Mage is aware that Pooky made a pool of 4 players to eliminate within, containing both Ircher and Double the Trouble. It's a case of TMI given his stated narrative.

None of the posts in that range mentioned Pooky's pool of four, and yet somehow Battle Mage knows to vote Double the Trouble, one of the names in that pool of four, over Ircher, another name in the pool of four?

I call bullshit.

Battle Mage has read most of the thread already. Maybe genuinely not all of it, but he knows far, far more than he is pretending he knows.

[Battle Mage]

im not that interested in elimming Ircher. I'll be back later but may not be worth finishing a full catch up if I'm being elimmed for the lols anyway?

[Battle Mage]

i guess at least the one thing we have in our favour is Pooky makes the final call. I'll finish my catch up today

[Battle Mage]

mastina, has there ever been a game where you didn't consider me confscum from the very beginning? the difference here is, I hadnt even posted when you reached that conclusion.

[Battle Mage]

lol mastina, if it wasn't bad enough you trolling me in this game, you bring up the TGP game I just lost too? argh

your 'case' appears to be that i posted in some games and not others whilst on VLA. Which is correct - I had some time, just not enough time to actively keep up with the majority so I cherry-picked ones where I thought my contribution would be most needed in that window. As you note, the game I posted most in was where I'd just counterclaimed doctor and town was about to lose.

[Battle Mage]

mastina, i don't think many of your posts today are going to age well xD

[Battle Mage]

im not that interested in elimming Ircher. I'll be back later but may not be worth finishing a full catch up if I'm being elimmed for the lols anyway?

This needs to be killed with fire.
Allow me to demonstrate scum!BM meta:

"hi guys, the ones saying that I lurk more as scum are hideous liars, now excuse me because I'm not in the mood to produce content here"

"ah right, I didn’t really read the game but since everyone is voting on this Double Trouble wagon now I totally feel like I've had my eyes opened to their scuminess. Now i shall take my farewell, be seeing you!"

- Norwee

haha my scum meta is lurking, but i havent been lurking here, I spent the weekend with my daughter and then had work either side, plus more games than I normally have.

I basically think it's too early to make that meta assessment of me here - too small a sample size. and elimming me Day 1 when it will be fairly obvious by Day 2/3 whether I'm town or not (I'm very easy for most people to read, hence going so long without being mislimmed).

Basically, I'm sympathetic with the idea BM-scum is a lurker-scum, but judging me over 1 weekend when I was V/LA is a bit premature. Let me actually like catch up.

[Battle Mage]

hmm, Pooky unfriended me on facebook.

Bad sign.

[Battle Mage]

there is definitely a problem with this site meta that posting lots of words, a la Mastina, is considered good, even if the underlying logic is fundamentally flawed

or maybe the problem is just that people don't listen to me.

[Battle Mage]

lol mastina, if it wasn't bad enough you trolling me in this game, you bring up the TGP game I just lost too? argh

your 'case' appears to be that i posted in some games and not others whilst on VLA. Which is correct - I had some time, just not enough time to actively keep up with the majority so I cherry-picked ones where I thought my contribution would be most needed in that window. As you note, the game I posted most in was where I'd just counterclaimed doctor and town was about to lose.

Pichu, to see. Mastina-logic implies I was scum in 4 of my 6 active games at that point. I'm sure she has noted that my activity was similar to here in the majority of my games, but it's inconvenient for her 'case'.

[Battle Mage]

cheers Pichu

my request to Pooky, and the town as a whole I guess, is to actually give me more than 2-3 real life days to do something useful and obvtowny, rather than elim me because I didnt have time to keep up with and post properly in the majority of my games over the weekend. I think that's a little opportunistic and slimey.

[Battle Mage]

pichu is hectic? that's a good sign

[Battle Mage]

i'm meant to be at work lol, wait until tonight, you spambot! <3

[Battle Mage]

BM never complained about games or slots being spammy before when he was town.

- Norwee

it was a term of affection

[Battle Mage]

also Norwee, you have played with me as scum and town, and i don't think I complained about slots being spammy in either case.

If you want to meta someone, you need to use your whole experience, not just select the bits which suit you.

[Battle Mage]

In return, i believe you to be quite obvtown Hectic.

- Norwee

reads as "please townread me, or take all my guilt!"

[Battle Mage]

Me briefly skimmed and methinks Double looks terrible. The way they approach this BM wagon and squash my terribly weak TL on BM is just not ok.

I don't agree with Alisae's scumread on you for what it's worth.
Alisae even suggested Mastina might be bussing Battle Mage, i think that's just wrong. Mastina is one of my strongest townreads so far.

- Norwee

hold on, you're saying Alisae thinks I'm scum? wha?

[Battle Mage]

Me briefly skimmed and methinks Double looks terrible. The way they approach this BM wagon and squash my terribly weak TL on BM is just not ok.

I see the case on BM and I'm willing to cave except that I think softing pr on day 1 is risky play cuz u might attract trackers/watchers/cops/whatever. Methinks its not optimal play for scum!BM here especially cuz if he didn't, his wagon wouldn't have exploded like that(imo)

Me also is not SRing BM tho that may be a red flag considering I've never not SRed town!BM before :/

-nornor

you have scumread me in every game. I was mostly town but occasionally scum.

I'm more interested in the wagon analysis than the posting frequency argument.

BM to what point have you actually read? What are your top SRs and TRs?

i was about halfway through last night. i had Gloria, Bell and Ydrasse as townreads from what i recall. Scumreading Mastina for her interaction with Flavor Leaf, but not her tunnel on me - she did exactly the same as town in both of our previous games together - once I was scum, once I was town.

I'll have a proper sense when I finish reading shortly, and also need to answer Pooky's Q about who on my wagon is scum.

[Battle Mage]

I think Norwee-Alisae is probably scum. Hard to believe 2 such capable players, 1 of whom has lots of experience with me, would both be scumreading me here.

[Battle Mage]

but would FL pick Hydras? Hydras dont tend to do so well. hmm, probably not lots of them.

[Battle Mage]

ok im gonna get some dinner, then finish reading. Noraa, you're prohibited from posting until I'm done

[Battle Mage]

I think Norwee-Alisae is probably scum. Hard to believe 2 such capable players, 1 of whom has lots of experience with me, would both be scumreading me here.

What was i supposed to townread you off?
- Norwee

The point is that you didn't have enough to read me off full stop. In essence, I wouldn't expect 2 good independent protown players to both settle on a top scumread of a guy who was VLA for the 48 hour life of the game. Doesn't mean you should have townread me either. But the fact you came to such a strong consensus doesn't look legit.

[Battle Mage]

Scumreading Mastina for her interaction with Flavor Leaf, but not her tunnel on me - she did exactly the same as town in both of our previous games together - once I was scum, once I was town.

You’ve actually based a read on someone’s interaction with Flavour Leaf..
So Mastina’s push on you is not scum indicative, but they are still scum? This sounds really fake.

- Norwee

lol Norwee, this game is going to be such a chore if all you're going to do is slate me for every opinion I have. If you're town, knock it off. You made such a fuss earlier about wanting to know what I think, and yet when I say what I think, you bad-faith it to death.

Where's the objective and balanced town-Norwee I remember?

[Battle Mage]

i was about halfway through last night. i had Gloria, Bell and Ydrasse as townreads from what i recall.

Gloria? The person that’s said absolutely nothing? Ydrasse is town but you don’t mention Pichu?
Why Bell?

- Norwee

lol dude, let's be real - are you actually trying to solve my slot or just run me up to save yourself? It looks quite transparently like the latter, so would be good to be clear on whether I need to respond. And I mean, if you actually want to understand my reads to date, you could read the very few posts I have, rather than making me waste time re-gurgitating what I've already said, so I can focus on new stuff. Just a thought.

although on a serious point, yes Pichu was in my townreads too, well remembered!

[Battle Mage]

I think Norwee-Alisae is probably scum. Hard to believe 2 such capable players, 1 of whom has lots of experience with me, would both be scumreading me here.

What was i supposed to townread you off?
- Norwee

The point is that you didn't have enough to read me off full stop. In essence, I wouldn't expect 2 good independent protown players to both settle on a top scumread of a guy who was VLA for the 48 hour life of the game. Doesn't mean you should have townread me either. But the fact you came to such a strong consensus doesn't look legit.

Haha yes, that would sound good for you if it wasn't an blatant misrepresentation of our read.
It is in fact your still avoidance of any real read and engagement on the thread (ignoring your attack on us, as that's easy for scum!you to replicate) that's been increasing my scumread on you for every minute since that V/LA has subsided.

- Norwee

i'm sure you will continue to dismiss my reads as "that's easy for scum!you to replicate". You have played with me as scum, and I did in fact, have some reads.

Your post above feels too performative to me, and I don't buy that you and Alisae as town are both eager to Day 1 quick-elim an experienced player with a known propensity to obvtown. You're both better than that.

[Battle Mage]

Go ahead and focus on new stuff then. Nothing's stopping you.

- Norwee

excellent. while I do that, how about you and Alisae spend some time coming up with a credible scumread based on something other than "player X didn't post much in the last few hours".

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage is my bro

we go way back

he would never betray me for some random new-school dude

I got you man. Be sure to tell these folks I'm town

ok going from page 30. It's a 'doozy'. Starts with Alisae in the Double Trouble hotseat, deciding I'm town. Then Pichu throws some shade at Double Trouble for buddying me, and they do a 180 to attack me for... using the search function. Interesting they throw out on this page the idea that both heads of a hydra being united is a towntell - I think the opposite, and it's much easier for a scum hydra with a gameplan and wanting to avoid unwanted attention to stay more or less on the same page.

[Battle Mage]

lol ignore the quote...unless you're Pooky I guess

[Battle Mage]

uh idk if anyone's said it about bm's few posts but isn't he like, always v/la on the weekends? he generally is in games i play w him

hi Ydrasse. I'm normally VLA on alternate weekends, depending on how my games are going. If I'm in like 1 slow game, I normally don't bother going VLA as I can keep up.

[Battle Mage]

page 31 - random splurge from Creature, but doesn't take the ready bait of directing DEB's vote. Maybe Creature-town more likely to do so, I know I would have.
page 32 - random attack from Double Trouble on Netflix and Chill. they have been quiet though. possible distancing?
page 33 - i'd forgotten about the random Informed Townie claim by Netflix and Chill. yeah, it feels a bit gambity, and the sort of thing Flavor might instruct someone to do.
page 34 - i know i say this in every mastina game, but the idea someone is "locktown" because they share 1 read with you is...not good.
page 35 - post 872 by Double Trouble is a little close to the bone. Hard to fathom why a town hydra ever makes a post considering how they can artificially make themselves seem more town.
page 36 - post 886 reads as genuine exasperation by Bell. mild carefree townvibe from Spiffeh.

[Battle Mage]

yo Pooky, are you here for some real time mafia in real time?

[Battle Mage]

I mean yeah, Norwee. But given how that went down with you two I was respecting your privacy.

Anyways, @Spiffeh- I don’t have a read because there’s too many goddamn shiny things this game. I know this isn’t the answer you are looking for but it’s the one you’re getting.

Ninja-
I’m not opposed to a BM quick wagon if it keeps this game under 80 pages d1

might be cutting it fine at the moment!

ydra are you ok?

yes

feeling less good about Ydrasse now. She is very bombastic which is not her scum meta at all, but FL does weird things to people too. In our last game, he turned OutWorldER from a moderate into the most brazen blatant scum ever, and still managed to win.

page 44, i'm getting there!

[Battle Mage]

while I'm here (thanks Titus), thoughts on my wagon:

Toogeloo-town
Spiffeh-neutral
Dunnstral-neutral
Creature - scumlean
Mastina - scumlean
Double Trouble - scum

So I'd say 2 scum on my wagon is likely (as there's a big incentive for scum to try and elim me early)

[Battle Mage]

but FL does weird things to people too. In our last game, he turned OutWorldER from a moderate into the most brazen blatant scum ever, and still managed to win.

Don't forget: FL made a mistake by telling us they meta-ed everyone - it means that they'll likely be able to make meta less effective here.
As a result,

you should throw all meta susceptible to FL intervention out of your reads

Yeah...

isn't that basically what i said?

[Battle Mage]

page 46, I like MorningTweet here. This feels like the same style she adopted when we epically hydra'd together recently as town.

[Battle Mage]

I don’t care
Play the game

Like ur no exception
Everyone is playing and its d1
D1 isn’t an excuse to not play

Play the game or die.

in my limited experience of Alisae...this strikes me as odd.

Okay so here's why I voted Ydrasse. First of all, I didn't like how they were interacting with pichu; that still looks like a scum-scum interaction. All it served to do was clutter several pages with nothing of use.

I also don't like 349. She has multiple posts beforehand and interactions with other players/the stumps. There was zero need to post it; it just fills up the thread with unnecessary clutter.

After that, we have the whole pichu and Ydrasse interaction. I will say it as many times as I must, but that really felt like a SvS interaction. /MAYBE/ it was a TvS interaction, but I doubt it was TvT. 352, 354 are especially bad. Their interaction also took up an entire 3 pages and yet didn't move the game forward in any significant away. That just awfully seems like scum theatre.

i dont agree

Hey mastina I also think Creature has a good shot at being scum do you town read me yet?

i like it, townpoints for Spiffeh. (unlikely scum antagonises Mastina there if Mastina-town, or patronises Mastina there if Mastina-scum).

Netflix and Chill (notscience and Brian Skies) - Solid Town
Spiffeh - sorting in progress
Creature - null
Polar Bear Express (Noraa and Gloria Cleary) - Town Maybe?
Ydrasse - Town
Solstice (Mistyx and Morning Tweet) - Maybe town?
pichu - town
Not Known 15 - ?
Toogeloo - maybe town?
MURDERCAT - leaning scum
Battle Mage - leaning scum
Bell - actually very unimpressive recently. I think I last had this as town. I'm having a hard time remembering what Bell has done. I think I should reach out to bell at some point the next time he's in thread.
Dr Easy Bake - Post or die
Dunnstral - Lean scum
mastina - I think I am starting to feel better about this being town at this moment but this read will go lower if the flips are bad.
Ircher - I'd imagine more likely town than scum?

the Double Trouble slot is going way OTT on these readslists. it stands out.

[Battle Mage]

page 51. I'm coming round to the idea that I'd like to elim a quieter low-profile slot today. seems to work a treat in large themes lately.

[Battle Mage]

So I am here and caught up. There is a ton of noise still. I'm gunna like, not really share my reads? I kind of feel like Pooky should be leading more?
If any of you want anything from me let me know.

bit yikes

Allow me to sum up the last 10 pages of content

Allow me to sum up the last few murdercat posts

this is fair on MC, it's pretty passive. not appropo of anything, but I'm not sure whether I care that Netflix and Chill is a non-signing hydra. Brian Skies is reputedly a good player.

[Battle Mage]

i may be town because I'm 100% not in my scum meta and I'm displaying more blue traits then red
but NOT YOU MISSY, If you don't keep scumreading me and being paranoid of me I will not feed the polar bears fish for a week

what's the meta difference?

Oh this
Scum!Ali is a bit more agenda heavy and pushes their agenda through, and is generally a bit more controlling
Town!Ali is way more passive

scum Ali here then, as Dunnstral points out.

i think the BM case has solid reasoning

i also think it is not correct

~mist

eh? run that past me again? you're half right anyway

VOTE: Ircher just in case it's a hammer
ok back here
VOTE: Double Trouble

can u 2 go back to voting me?[/quote]

Alisae scum here surely...?

page 52 - belated wagon on Ircher because he suspected Ydrasse. Comes a bit out of nowhere but grows quickly. If he ever flips scum, defo scum in the page 52 crew.

[Battle Mage]

so after consulting for a long time with my ace team of mason friends we have come up with this POE-4;

we will eliminate someone from this list today:

Double Trouble
Ircher
Battle Mage
Dunnstral

Pls don't put anyone within 2 votes of being elim'd I'd like to do some final heart-heart talk with the victim first thanks!

honestly I feel like you should be able to recognize that this is my town game :/

nice AtE

Out of this list of four BattleMage is the one I'd want eliminated the most

Dunnstral and Ircher I would fight against and Double the Trouble I'd need to be thoroughly convinced

Well Battlemage hasn't really done anything yet, so it would be more of a shot in the dark, in my opinion

Double Trouble comes off looking pretty bad, in my opinion, and is a good sanity elim

townpoints for Dunnstral. I still increasingly like Spiffeh even though he wants me dead.

I support Double/Ircher eliminations.

I would compromise on Battle Mage, but wouldn't really be happy about it unless it flipped scum.

I don't think Dunn is scum.

I jive ok with these reads - showing some genuine progression.

Been barely having time for this game and tomorrow will probably be even worse

So far unhappy with the current gamestate

odd to see Creature popping up again to complain about gamestate when they haven't been doing much themselves.

[Battle Mage]

This is a weird surge of effort coming from Creature. Considering he's not in the pool of potential lynches, I'm inclined to think it's town?

what effort??

Why are you reading from the first page, now?

this was in relation to Creature. A valid question, never answered.

e-3 give or take 1.

this attempt to give Ircher wagon a new lease of life. doesn't vibe well if Ircher-town.

[Battle Mage]

page 52 - belated wagon on Ircher because he suspected Ydrasse. Comes a bit out of nowhere but grows quickly. If he ever flips scum, defo scum in the page 52 crew.

why is scum in that page if ircher is scum

The pace the wagon grew based on nothing new happening, suggests to me at least 1 scum getting their distancing chips in early, just in case.

PS: get an avi dude....

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Double the Trouble
I have played with Norwegianboy in the past.
This isn't town. This is scum drowning the thread with distracting and spammy posts.

this came a bit out of nowhere, and i didn't even realise you existed in the first 50 pages.

Show me these spammy posts?

- Norwee

pfft lol

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ircher
His quote text walls are full of IioA. They are looking busy, but it's super fluffy.

I'm not a huge fan of having to come back to 27 pages that are mostly shit posts by players like pichu and the hydras. It demotivates me (and possibly others) to read everything we missed and try and sieve through for actual substance.

My experiences with Creaturescum remind me of the fat kid in dodgeball. I don't think he's someone Flav would actually "choose" to recruit for his scum team.

Toogeloo-san giving me all those townfeels again.

so after consulting for a long time with my ace team of mason friends we have come up with this POE-4;

we will eliminate someone from this list today:

Double Trouble
Ircher
Battle Mage
Dunnstral

Pls don't put anyone within 2 votes of being elim'd I'd like to do some final heart-heart talk with the victim first thanks!

btw I am very happy with how the POE-4 is going - you guys are all doing a great job

if you aren't voting for someone in the POE-4 you should do so and have a reason preferably.

every1 already voting in the POE-4 pls give me your top SR and top TR in the POE-4 with reasons thanks.

DT
BM
Dunn
Ircher

I think. Ali isn't hyperposting and controlling stuff, Ircher has weird reads.

not the best take on Alisae in my book.

my real time thoughts are:

Not me
Not Dunnstral
Ircher only if we had to, but on balance he's still pretty neutral for me.
DT - happily, although there's probably relatively low-content + high ability people I'd rather elim

[Battle Mage]

I think Norwee-Alisae is probably scum. Hard to believe 2 such capable players, 1 of whom has lots of experience with me, would both be scumreading me here.

have you read ur own title?
You come across as the kind of player that would try to soft something for towncred.

Also mastina is very convincing tbh its quite unusual.

sorry, i should introduce myself:

Hi Alisae, I'm Battle Mage.

My title is from like 2010 - when I used to get mis-elimmed all the time.

I had a 10 year hiatus.

Since returning at the start of 2020, I have only been mis-elimmed once, and have not been mis-elimmed in my last 34 consecutive completed games (although that may be about to end here of course haha!)

if you're claiming to find mastina convincing when I've already debunked her case on me, I think we're going to struggle to have productive conversations.

[Battle Mage]

PS: get an avi dude....

Er... You of all players here shouldn't say that.

i was joking dude, but also it is confusing having another no avi player

[Battle Mage]

scum Ali here then, as Dunnstral points out.

passive does not mean not spam post and I'm not sure how that conclusion is being driven but also you haven't even encountered a scum!Ali so how the fuck would you know the difference between the two?

lol no need for the over-defensiveness dude - as I said in the original quote, I observed that using Dunnstral's assessment of your meta, you're playing to your scum meta here. It's nothing to do with my meta on you.

[Battle Mage]

My title is from like 2010 - when I used to get mis-elimmed all the time.

oh
maybe I misjudged

still though, I don't see why I would trust my own ability to read when when I can trust norwee and mastina

this is my 3rd game with mastina this year.

in all 3 games, she decided i was scum at the beginning and did little else other than tunnel me for the duration.

In 1 game I was scum, in the other 2 town (incl. this one).

I don't consider her read on me to be genuine, it's just what mastina does. Hence as I said to Norwee, I don't think it's scummy for her as she does it consistently as town. But it's also not something one should put any stock in.

Norwee has played several games with me. I think it's fair to say his record of reading me is pretty hit and miss.

[Battle Mage]

scum Ali here then, as Dunnstral points out.

passive does not mean not spam post and I'm not sure how that conclusion is being driven but also you haven't even encountered a scum!Ali so how the fuck would you know the difference between the two?

lol no need for the over-defensiveness dude - as I said in the original quote, I observed that using Dunnstral's assessment of your meta, you're playing to your scum meta here. It's nothing to do with my meta on you.

and how would you know that

haha i wouldnt! I merely made an observation based on Dunnstral's assessment.

Can I ask why you're challenging me on the validity of Dunnstral's meta, rather than challenging him? or alternatively, can you show me where you did challenge him?

[Battle Mage]

Also I saw the town treestump post a lim pool for today, and I think that's an awful post for several reasons: 1) we still have a whole week 2) some of the people in your PoE aren't fully caught up and the game just began like 2 days ago 3) this is just a bad strategy in general because it gives scum license to focus their reads there and ignore doing actual scumhunting elsewhere. I would advise the stump to reconsider.

although i dont agree, i like ircher for town for this.

[Battle Mage]

Is this your "proper catchup"?

ah i missed this, bitchy or what?

who rattled your cage MC?

[Battle Mage]

In Stumpy we trust.

This'll actually be a problem if we allow it. It's going to be too easy to wash hands of responsibility or commitments if we defer to Pooky for everything. He should have a some say in lynched, but don't empower the slot too much because we'll get ambivalence from town to scum hunt, and we'll have scum just pushing Pook's agenda and looking good.

I think both are mistaken, as they assume Pooky will actually just stick with that list of 4. In reality, he may or may not - at his own discretion. BUT I don't think either are necessarily scum indicative, although the vernacular and tone are creepily similar...

In fact the tone of this statement in general is the type of behavior I'm wary of in general.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Battle Mage

oh Toogeloo, no bueno man. I agree we shouldn't absolve ourselves of responsibility, but I do think we should make use of Pooky's experience and conftown status here. And I'm fine with him setting the rules for us to play by.

[Battle Mage]

Is this your "proper catchup"?

ah i missed this, bitchy or what?

who rattled your cage MC?

I mean NK had like 7 posts at that point

ah i thought it was at me, im reading as if in real time!

[Battle Mage]

I'm sure Pooky is working hard to solve the game so we don't have to do that much.

it would help me solve if you also try to solve

this low effort shit is very no bueno

i will put you in the POE if you do not be your radiantly solvy townie self

haha you totally got that "no bueno" thing from me dude!

@Dunn- I know. Maybe it’s due to the lack of volume here compared to there? Like I said I wasn’t feeling any kinda way about it I just clocked it.

VOTE: BM

Let’s kill this double. Truce?

I was actually more engaged in Xenoblade, it's just that the pace was lightning fast so I didn't seem as impressive in comparison

This game has less posts but it's harder to read/engage with because Ydrasse, Pichu, Double the Trouble, Polar Bear Express, and Pooky are all posting low quality content as fast as possible while they're around

VOTE: Double the trouble

Scummy and nobody is vouching for them

I vote them here

In their iso, ctrl + f their mentions of me, they are unsure/radio silence up until I vote them, and then they start asking for reads on me and wrinkling their forehead

this is the most dominant I have ever seen Dunnstral play. now wondering if i've ever seen Dunnstral-scum...

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: BattleMage

Not really scum reading him but this is my most desired elim out of the four provided by Pooky

Townreading Dunnstral and Ircher, don't have a strong read either way on Double the Trouble but gun to my head I'd say they're town too

im ok with this

Like the biggest thing that both me and norwee agree on is that town!dunn has no agenda.
But this dunnstral very clearly has an agenda and is trying to push it. ESPECIALLY when all I'm asking for them is to justify their read and they refuse to engage with me.

maybe there's merit in this. I'll consult my Dunnstral-meta later. But he's been big townvibing for me so far.

[Battle Mage]

Pooky

- in response to your question, if I'm adding anyone to the PoE I think it's Creature.

[Battle Mage]

i have never been more excited in my life to see mastina start posting again tbh

because you know Mastina will relentlessly tunnel anyone who questions you?

[Battle Mage]

[quote="In post 1420, Ircher"

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"

This is 100% buyable. I do something similar from time to time. Furthermore, given Battle Mage's demeanor, this seems 100% inline as something they would do.

X

Battle Mage himself admitted it's something he's never done before--and for good reason, because it is very much not in character with his towngame whatsoever.[/quote]

i mean, i've never done it before as town

or scum

, so isn't that the definition of being NAI?

I'm not going to re-tread old ground and respond to the Mastina stuff in detail. It's all a bit like this - superficial one-dimensional takes which don't show any evidence of balanced objective assessment. Nothing more grim than watching Mastina and DT massage each other.

[Battle Mage]

I've just been trusting some of the other players belief (mostly mastina) that its some stupid TvT.

Alisae, I've heard you're a good player in your own right. Do you normally just pick someone at random to sheep, rather than following your own reads?

[Battle Mage]

also Alisae, would love to hear your honest take on Mastina's activity case on me, and my subsequent rebuttal

[Battle Mage]

Mastina, I hate to do this, but per the spoilers below you are going to look very silly if/when I flip in this game. On the good-faith you might be town, can I ask that, after I flip, you engage in some careful self-reflection about your ability to read me, and how you express the strength of your reads in general. I think your approach has 3 main pitfalls:

1. When you bury somebody under tonnes of content, it makes it difficult for them to engage with you and show you where you have made errors, and it's also a bit trolly when you do it to me every game without much substance to back it up, or any sense that you even care what I say.
2. When you invest a lot of time and effort into a case on somebody, I think you struggle to come to terms with the fact you may just be wrong and have to go back to the drawing board - but there is really no shame in that. Mafia is a game where you need to try and be objective and you should leave room for your reads to evolve.
3. By expressing such absolute confidence in your reads, you harm your own credibility and paint yourself into a corner whenever you're wrong. I'm not a big fan of people using phrases like "conftown" or "confscum" without good reason, as those should be reserved for things like mech certainties. Using hyperbole when it isn't warranted will always read as scummy, and not everyone will know it is your meta.

Spoiler:

ok as you can tell I've run out of steam...I'll keep going tomorrow until I catch up

Ah yes.

Your 'content' can be summed up as:
Polar Bear Express is an unlikely FL pick (this is fair); Ali/Norwee would be a top pick (this is a bad take that fuels the paranoia on the slot when it's pretty damn clearly false).

Speculating that the confscum talking indicates I am scum (this is a bad take for pretty obvious reasons); calling mastina-Dunn one town/one scum also off of the confscum (this is also a bad take for the same obvious reasons); Bell town (this is fair, as BM should see Bell's townness); reaffirming Noraa's town (this is fair); calling Ydrasse scum (this is a bad take).

Asking for a heads up if at L-1, proving that you're reading the thread because what good would this notification do for you if you weren't? (this is important enough of something that I'm going to requote that post to point it out since I missed this implication the first time).

Calling Toogeloo town (this is fair).

Elaborating on your stance which proves you are reading the game without commenting on it.

Placing an opportunistic vote on Double the Trouble and indicating you are aware that the ic said that there were four names in contention with Ircher and Double Trouble as two of them.

Taking back the bad-Ydrasse take and calling Ydrasse town (this is fair).

Calling Solstice scum, a take that's questionable (I cannot in good faith call it a bad take because there's at least some merit to the accusation, but it is still a questionable stance to take due to the ease and convenience of it).

Calling pichu town (this is fair).

A fluff post, followed by another fluff post.

And then you declaring you're out of steam.

So to reiterate.
Bad reads on 2-5 slots, where you do take back the bad read on one but leave the bad reads on the others.
Good reads on 4, later 5, slots.

And nothing more.

You've developed reads on a grand total of 9 slots (if I am being generous), in a 17-player game. After having read 730 posts, where every slot had posted at least once in that timeframe. You have reads, half of which are bad, on literally only half the playerlist.

Why are people thinking this is in any way Battle Mage as town?
He's being lazy.
He's making bad, easy takes, and avoiding taking stances on most players.
He's refusing to give the game much in the way of actual content.
And this is him after his V/LA has ended.

can someone give me a heads up if i get to -1 so i can claim? lol

it's best to give warning when you put someone at E-1 so they can claim, in case they are a power role, or just because it's good practice/good for the game.

To reiterate:

Battle Mage claimed yesterday that, while on his V/LA, he was not reading the thread.
Battle Mage is asking that, if he is put to L-1, for it to be announced.
If Battle Mage was not reading the thread,

how would he be able to see the declaration of being at L-1

?

To see that he's at L-1 inherently requires that he is reading the thread enough to know it has happened...something he previously said he wasn't doing. To refresh your memory:

HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

He claimed he responded to the message not due to reading the thread, but finding it with a search.

HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

i mean yes but why

i dunno, never done it before tbh. *shrug*

But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.

So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.

Which is cemented here:

also better VOTE: double the trouble as I owe Ircher one.

This post is indicative that Battle Mage is aware that Pooky made a pool of 4 players to eliminate within, containing both Ircher and Double the Trouble. It's a case of TMI given his stated narrative.

None of the posts in that range mentioned Pooky's pool of four, and yet somehow Battle Mage knows to vote Double the Trouble, one of the names in that pool of four, over Ircher, another name in the pool of four?

I call bullshit.

Battle Mage has read most of the thread already. Maybe genuinely not all of it, but he knows far, far more than he is pretending he knows.

every1 already voting in the POE-4 pls give me your top SR and top TR in the POE-4 with reasons thanks.

My top scumread is Battle Mage because almost all of his claims are full of shit.

I know for a fact he posted content in other games during the time period he claims to have been V/LA in this game. In spite of no content in this game.

I know for a fact that his claim to have searched for his name is bullshit because this is the search result that'd be generated from it. It is far, far more likely that he was reading during his V/LA and not giving content, but felt the need to give a pop-in, so he invented an excuse to do so, banking on nobody checking his claimed method and hoping nobody would call this behavior out.

I know that he's softing a power role, but I know for a fact that the way he's doing so is his scum meta because town-BM does not soft in that way whereas scum-BM does.

Battle Mage's play here is his scum meta through and through, start to finish.

As for top townread, that I cannot give you as two of my top townreads are in your pool and you asked for me to describe only one--but Dunnstral and Double the Trouble are both equally not-scum to me in both being locktown reads of mine in my townbloc.

[Battle Mage]

I wouldn't say its random but its something that I do. Especially when said player is known to be really good at reading another player on the table.
I'm not that confident in my reads early unless scum are just being obvious.

pedit: The activity case?
Probably more likely to come from her town gameplay than her scum gameplay based off of my experiences with her.

who is mastina good at reading?

on the activity case, I meant the merits of it, rather than what it meant for her alignment.

[Battle Mage]

What do you think about Polar Bears BM?

they are fine

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage

lim-3

Like the biggest thing that both me and norwee agree on is that town!dunn has no agenda. But this dunnstral very clearly has an agenda and is trying to push it. ESPECIALLY when all I'm asking for them is to justify their read and they refuse to engage with me.

I am very strongly of the opinion that you-Dunn is town-town.

lol Mastina, I'm very strongly of the opinion that you are literally just throwing a townread to everyone who votes me. madness

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage - If he's softing a PR then I don't really care about poking this tree right now. I feel like I just feel like there are more productive things to do?

I agree with all you say regarding Battle Mage. And i think that’s the better vote over Ircher because all of my meta experience with BM tells me something isn’t right. This is not their towngame.
VOTE: Battle Mage

- Norwee

norwee has more experience then battle mage than I do.
It was foolish of me to not believe in him.

Alisae - apparently you dont stand by this any more. Who are you voting though?

[Battle Mage]

I wouldn't say its random but its something that I do. Especially when said player is known to be really good at reading another player on the table.
I'm not that confident in my reads early unless scum are just being obvious.

pedit: The activity case?
Probably more likely to come from her town gameplay than her scum gameplay based off of my experiences with her.

who is mastina good at reading?

on the activity case, I meant the merits of it, rather than what it meant for her alignment.

you dodged the second half of this, so I'll give you another chance. The reason I ask is because:

btw mastina I really like your battle mage push, ur doing a good job of selling me on him.

You indicated here you were quite enamoured with her case. But when I asked you just now, you ducked the question twice.

I think the weaknesses of the case are fairly obvious, and I've pointed them out. You have the opportunity to prove you are a smart town player who thinks independently, or whether you are just scum hiding behind Mastina's proverbial skirt.

[Battle Mage]

who is mastina good at reading?

i wouldn't say she's "good" at reading any particular player in the playerlist, I just think that she's likely town and while reading

some of her posts

on you they

seem to make sense

.

this is definitely a climbdown from where you were before. Mastina won't like this. But I think you can climbdown further if you're honest with me.

[Battle Mage]

I can use to prove that Battle Mage this game is a fucking liar

again, Mastina...this won't age well, and I ask with all courtesy that in future you do learn from this and...at least tone it down a bit. or better still, give genuine reads rather than exaggerated fantasy ones.

[Battle Mage]

Like the biggest thing that both me and norwee agree on is that town!dunn has no agenda. But this dunnstral very clearly has an agenda and is trying to push it. ESPECIALLY when all I'm asking for them is to justify their read and they refuse to engage with me.

I am very strongly of the opinion that you-Dunn is town-town.

let's talk about it, maybe you can ease me up to it

I feel like if you were outside of the two of you, it'd be more obvious as textbook townvtown and that if it were me vs Dunnstral, for instance, with Dunnstral doing to me what he's doing to you and me doing to Dunnstral what he's doing to you, you in particular Ali would be the first to call it TvT and be frustrated at how stubbornness, ego, tunneling, with a side of omgusing, caused a very loud large tvt fight.

Beyond that as a description.

All I can offer you up is that I feel Dunnstral looks town overall. His fight with you is bad, but that can also be said of your fight with him. He's shown himself to still be scumhunting elsewhere and to have solid thoughts and pushes, and with the amount of reasoning I'd expect from him.

ok mastina
i'll trust you

i love you mastina *hic*

[Battle Mage]

[why is everyone on this page calling me weird. duuuude. well, maybe i guess]

[I have full confidence that pichu reads me correctly by the end of this game even if they are not already townreading me, though]

mastina how do you feel about Pichu's read on Solstice? Pichu is good at reading them. Pooky already outed that Pichu is hectic

[ARE YOU SERIOSU]

(Yes, confscum; I am that sure Battle Mage is scum here.)

[ooo, really lemme check]

Yes, Mastina is calling me confscum here, in the same way she did when we were Morning Mage.

Spoiler:

she is wrong again

@Mastina - Do you think I wouldn't be aware of you analyzing my drafts if I wasn't going to pick you?

This interaction makes me like Mastina-scum. I don't think FL engages like this with Mastina-town here.

I was so happy I got it too. Mastina and Dunnstral were the first bans the first draft.

1 scum, 1 town here?

[lol do you really think we can find scum via Flavour's posts, BM]

I wouldn't rule it out. Flavor has many strengths, but being hard to read isn't prime amongst them.

Morning Tweet could be scum here. A good choice if Flavor made it. One to watch. I'm on page 27 phew...

[That'd be an abysmal call, save for WIFOM. Hang on, have i even played scum against you before? i don't believe so. what makes you think i have a scum game?]

Actually that's true, the one scum game of yours I have read you weren't great sue me for being nice - you're a smart player. <3

emojis are a scumtell :3

~mist

i suspect you're finding this hydra hard work.

[nobody can stop me! (^∀^)]

will do - aint got much so far. a few good townreads: Bell, Noraa-hydra, Pichu, Ydrasse maybe. I haven't got to the bit where Pooky picks his list of 4 yet (which incidentally, is a great idea, if I'm not on the list )

[Ya Polarbears/Ydrasse are town, Pichu probably as well. haven't read Bell yet but i think I'll have a decent guess after a little while]

~Morning

yup good consensus

[Battle Mage]

[he's devil's advocating a lot, and usually in the opposite direction to what i'm thinking. He's attacking Ydrasse/pichu, the hydras.. defending BM and so on -- maybe im just getting unlucky reading posts I tend to disagree with, but i remember this feeling back when i was playing earlier, and he's doing it on this page too.]

[It's maybe slightly worth noting Ircher didn't post like this (with the big quote stripes) in my last game with him, Jigsaw mafia -- he didn't effort too much there. Maybe cause he was a replacement though, and im not familiar with how he plays as scum anyway]

[nothing terribly strong, but i still lean that there's scum in Ircher/Creature, especially if my townreads are right]

~Morning

interesting here you suggest you don't agree with Ircher defending me....yet you hadn't really commented on me at all prior to this.

Can you talk me through your read here?

[Battle Mage]

ok upto page 71. maybe the reason I have a low-opinion of mastina's towngame compared to others, is because I'm the one she always fights tooth and nail to try and miselim... -.-

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Double the Trouble

im down to settle your concerns now.
I didn't before because I though it was more useful for you to vote me to see who else would bite. You know, for the data.

why must you be so scummy Alisae?

what effort??

There was a surge of effort-posting from Creature right after Pooky gave us the list of four names of potential eliminations for today. I thought that was more likely to be town-indicative of Creature since he wasn't in that pool, and I don't think anything he did seemed agenda-driven towards that pool of eliminations.

A lot of people disagree, so I've been waffling on it.

He made about 4 consecutive posts, I would generously describe as 'low-effort'. So I guess I'd interpret your townread on Creature for it as very generous indeed.

Hi Gloria glad to have you here

Hope you feel better soon

Anywhere you have disagreed with Noraa if you've been keeping up at all?

so after consulting for a long time with my ace team of mason friends we have come up with this POE-4;

we will eliminate someone from this list today:

Double Trouble
Ircher
Battle Mage
Dunnstral

Pls don't put anyone within 2 votes of being elim'd I'd like to do some final heart-heart talk with the victim first thanks!

I think Pooky has pretty good reads and I don’t have any meta on BM at all but I think both Noraa and Pooky do so, I would trust Pooky’s reads over Noraa’s when they differ. So, I would trust his read on BM’s over Noraa’s if that helps.

Pooky has perfect meta on me:

1 game with us both as town
1 game with us both as scum
1 game with Pooky scum, me town
1 game with me scum, Pooky town

also we're bros, so he knows me pretty well anyway.

Spoiler:

although i'm prepared to eat my words if he elims me here

[Battle Mage]

Fair enough, BM is tough to read

eh? I'm easy to read once i have time to post lol

[Battle Mage]

Fair enough, BM is tough to read

eh? I'm easy to read once i have time to post lol

I'm being nice

you flirt

[Battle Mage]

BattleMage if you were not limited by the PoE pool provided by Pooky who would you want to eliminate and why?

great question, although I don't think I have a great answer! I think the scummiest slot is DT, but I'm also a big believer in activity being protown, and they have been nothing if not active. Maybe that's worth giving them an extra day over some of the lurky slots. Although given this a draft, and not random, maybe there should be a higher propensity to elim more fashionable units. I think I've got a good towncore, which narrows my PoE a good bit for today, but no really surefire scumreads.

I'd probably flip within Creature and DT by choice, but there's arguments for the slots below:

Double the Trouble (Alisae and NorwegianboyEE) - openly and almost deliberately scummy slot - which ordinarily might be TSTBS but with FL coaching nothing would surprise me.
Netflix and Chill (notscience and Brian Skies) - feels like a slot which FL might pick and hasn't been exactly oozing town, although not a strong scumread either.
Creature - just seems to fit the bill as scum. an unequivocally good elim choice.
Ydrasse - I just dont know. Probably town based on meta, but something about the bombastic attitude here feels Flavorsome. And I think Ydrasse might be more excited about trying to one-up Pooky here.
Solstice (Mistyx and Morning Tweet) - depends on MT's answer to my question as to whether I'm town-leaning or scum-leaning this. But wouldn't elim today either way, as MT is worth keeping around.
Not Known 15 - neutral zone.
MURDERCAT - neutral zone
Bell - neutral overall, wouldn't do today but also not a townread.
Dr Easy Bake - could be scum, could be town. need to deal with at some point.
mastina - neutral but likely to be detriment to town productivity and cohesion so not a bad elim.

[Battle Mage]

Becoming more and more ok with a BattleMage elim

Not thrilled with his approach to Double Trouble, holding a scum read on them is fine but I feel like his catch up has an ulterior motive of calling Double Trouble scummy at every opportunity for reasons that aren't all that compelling. It's like he went into his catchup with the intention of painting Double Trouble in a scummy light rather than naturally coming to that conclusion as he read.

And it's very CONVENIENT that he chose Double Trouble to do this to because they are apart of the Pooky's PoE and probably the most likely elimination after himself

And in Xenoblade 2 he was effortlessly town and after his latest catchup posts I'm not getting that vibe at all

Xenoblade was a bit more effortless because I didnt have to catch up 70 odd pages that I didn't experience in REAL TIME. and also I didn't really have to do much analysis there because scum were patently obvious at every step of the way.

I think your interpretation here, if correct, could mean one of two things:

A. Deliberate attempt by BM-scum to try and paint DT in a bad light.
B. Confbias because I started out with DT as a scumread/antagonist before reading through everything.

You're defaulting to A, without considering the possibility of B. Contrast that with my analysis of Mastina, where I actively consider the possibility she is town and just tunnelling me because that's her 'thing' and once she started, she got confbiased into oblivion.

Also I don't necessarily agree with your proposition that DT was the most likely elim other than myself from within the PoE - I'd have said that was Ircher. Nor do I put absolute stock in the PoE being what we ultimately elim from - as evidenced by my posts where I suggested others who might be switched in. I know Pooky has some game, and some flex.

[Battle Mage]

Hey N&C what makes Double Trouble a more attractive elimination over Ircher for you now?

I think they're most recent content has been p. towny, especially Norwee-head's interactions with BattleMage

as I recall, Norwee-head's interactions with me were exclusively him swiftly burying everything I said to try and de-motivate me from making any effort to catch up or give my thoughts. I don't think that was a pro-town approach. Although I agree Alisae has been the scummier of the two heads.

[Battle Mage]

I think Double the Trouble has been incredibly townie ever since being mentioned as part of the PoE elim list by Pooky

Like I expect scum!Alisae in that situation to just kinda freak out and tunnel someone else in that list and act super confident about getting a scum flip so e could brute eir way out of getting elimmed

But I feel like Alisae has kept an extremely level head and has kept sorting people as the priority which makes em more likely to be town

I think this is a bad take. What do you make of Alisae's own claim that he hasn't really been sorting, and has mostly deferred his own reads to those of Norwee/Mastina?

[Battle Mage]

Although I agree Alisae has been the scummier of the two heads.

That's not what I said

haha you say sidewalk, I say pavement. that is what you said (it's a relative metric), you just framed it more positively.

[Battle Mage]

And in Xenoblade 2 he was effortlessly town and after his latest catchup posts I'm not getting that vibe at all

I agree

not a good omen when 2 of my better townreads think i'm scum.

[Battle Mage]

Hey N&C what makes Double Trouble a more attractive elimination over Ircher for you now?

I think they're most recent content has been p. towny, especially Norwee-head's interactions with BattleMage

I believe Battle Mage has come out of their brief 1v1 fairly townish against Double Trouble. I also feel like BM's posting feels like town flail.

I haven't really liked Double Trouble at all this game, and them 'deferring' their vote to Mastina without stating a strong read there or saying what exactly they agreed with regarding the BM case to be fairly weak and scummy. I've also commented on other things regarding them throughout this game (including them putting Solstice so low on their reads list but only explaining it as them sheeping Mastina and you) but not really in the mood to pull them up. These 'suspicions' of theirs don't seem genuine and I just fail to see how anyone can think this slot's town.

I also don't really buy them thinking I'd want to see other people vote them and 'get data' from that and just think they were distracting from a potential Ircher wagon.

yeah i basically agree with all of this. although can you go with something more flattering than "town flail" after I devote like 4 hours to catching up on this game

[Battle Mage]

I think Double the Trouble has been incredibly townie ever since being mentioned as part of the PoE elim list by Pooky

Like I expect scum!Alisae in that situation to just kinda freak out and tunnel someone else in that list and act super confident about getting a scum flip so e could brute eir way out of getting elimmed

But I feel like Alisae has kept an extremely level head and has kept sorting people as the priority which makes em more likely to be town

I think this is a bad take. What do you make of Alisae's own claim that he hasn't really been sorting, and has mostly deferred his own reads to those of Norwee/Mastina?

okay dude now ur just lieing
i deferred my read on you to norwee and mastina not every read I have relies on another player :/

I'm your top scumread though right? You're voting for me? But you don't care enough about my alignment to actually sort me yourself, apparently.

With the greatest respect, I don't think a defence of "well I did some sorting of a few minor scum/town-leans" holds much water in that context.

[Battle Mage]

Alisae has been asking a ton of questions and from my perspective it looks like e's attempting to find town and mind meld reads with them (he's done this with myself and mastina for example)

Alisae also backed off on Dunnstral, one of eir only options to push in order to not die today, after realizing myself and other players eir town reading are confidently town reading Dunny, when I'd expect scum!Alisae to continue pushing there purely to increase eir chance of survival

There's just a lot of avenues Alisae took that are the polar opposite to how I'd expect scum!Alisae to handle the situation eir in currently

didnt you say in your previous post you townread Alisae for not just focussing on 1 slot to elim, once Pooky made the PoE?

Now you townread him for backing off Alisae in order to ostensibly focus on 1 slot to elim (me).

I'm slightly baffled you think scum-Alisae would see that he couldn't get an elim on Dunnstral and respond to that by focussing significant energy pointless pushing a case on Dunnstral. Wouldn't that just be...bad play? Although I don't have extensive meta with him, so perhaps you can tell me if that's his usual style?

Alisae himself admitted his approach to Mastina was basically to blindly agree with everything she said, and defended this in hindsight by noting he was drunk and high. I think you can argue that's NAI, but it's hard to sell that to me as being town-indicative.

[Battle Mage]

anyway, off to bed, Pooky if you're reading this - let's chat in real time when you're around - I've got a sweet crumb for ya.

[Battle Mage]

Idk BM you're def not gonna convince me to elim Double Trouble over you today so I'd focus your energy elsewhere

If it makes you feel better I wish this Day wasn't completely revolved around the PoE list of four and we were free to explore and pressure other options

Like I actually had to focus more on trying to save the players I'm town reading over finding scum but I'm not bitter or anything...

that's one of my points dude - I don't think it's likely we will necessarily end up in the PoE list of 4. And in fairness, it's not as if the day has "completely revolved around it". Like the list began 1 day ago? and we've probably got the value we were going to get from it. I don't think it's been a harmful approach.

My goal is not to convince you to elim Double Trouble but to demonstrate my perspective on them, as it contrasts with yours - given your hypothesis that my scumread on them was just a matter of convenience, there's some value in me proving that there is substance behind it. As noted, I'm not dead-set on elimming them today either, although I do believe they are a good candidate.

[Battle Mage]

anyway, off to bed, Pooky if you're reading this - let's chat in real time when you're around - I've got a sweet crumb for ya.

mate the last time you claimed a PR on me you were scum :>

i'm mith from the party gimme a sunglasses emoji if you got it

[Battle Mage]

also i believe im at -2, so when is my exit interview? haha

will respond to other stuff after work

[Battle Mage]

also i believe im at -2, so when is my exit interview? haha

will respond to other stuff after work

How about now.
I’d like to see a claim tbh. Alisae tells me you’re very vocal about supposedly softing a claim.

- Norwee

I don't think there's any value in claiming publically - I've crumbed my role to Pooky, and he makes the final call. It's a tough spot for him, to overturn a town majority on Day 1 but that's par for the course when you use a narrower elim pool. Big treestump needs to make a big executive decision.

I think it's really dumb for any town to elim me Day 1 when I'm so easy to read, and like actually trying and playing more than most. Although this town (or a majority of it) aren't able to read me so well perhaps, which doesn't bode well. I'd attribute that largely to a blindspot for Mastina and Flavor pushing his team to elim me Day 1 because he knows well that I can obvtown and am very hard to mis-elim. So advice for tomorrow, if I bite the dust today, would be to look first at those who were shading/voting me.

The arguments against me basically suck, but they come from players who are respected, so what else can I say?

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

To reiterate:
Battle Mage claimed yesterday that, while on his V/LA, he was not reading the thread.
Battle Mage is asking that, if he is put to L-1, for it to be announced.
If Battle Mage was not reading the thread, how would he be able to see the declaration of being at L-1?
To see that he's at L-1 inherently requires that he is reading the thread enough to know it has happened...something he previously said he wasn't doing. To refresh your memory:

Like, this is just silly.

Just because he said he wasn't following up previously doesn't mean he can't at least follow along with current events now.

But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.

So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.

And this is just twisting things to fit her case.

Either way, if he's never done it before, then it's not necessarily alignment indicative.

Is there anything you think Battle Mage has done that's town indicative?

[Lul these two posts sum up my thoughts on BM and the case against him. I had a feeling the reasons for him being scum would be like that. but I also don't really want to call him town]

[At this rate, I'm going to continue to null/SL right up until he's abt to be eliminated, where he'll do something emotional or otherwise towny, ill change my mind, then he'll die. Could flip town or scum in that scenario though, i've had it go either way. consider this my prediction for the future]

[pedit: i know it sounds stupid and sheepy but that post by Noraabear is legitimately odd and out of place to me]

[I think I should make my homework getting a real read on BM/Ircher and probably Double.]

~Morning

Translation: MorningTweet acknowledges the case against me is non-existent.

And MorningTweet is smart.

Can we listen to MorningTweet?

[Battle Mage]

I'm concerned I'm just gonna get elimmed by some stupid hammer before Pooky is even here to talk to me.

[Battle Mage]

although i dont agree, i like ircher for town for this.

[Nvm about asking on the Ircher read. I guess i can see why that is sorta towny, but I think he's being honest regardless of alignment -- what i mean is, i think he'd oppose that strategy either way. Idk. The big text exudes frustration though which I like]

I'm pissed off I might be mis-elimmed for the first time in like 30 games based on Mastina doing her gimmick and tunnelling me with logically barren super-posts.

I can buy Polar Express being scum this game.

1845 should be all the evidence you guys need

You know what? I think I want Double the Trouble dead today.
1) BM softed pr. theres a big possibility he'll be cleared/guiltied overnight and we'll be set and fine tomorrow without the risk of mislimmed a pr day 1. There really is no rush and if he's softing pr, we shouldn't be risking mislimming a pr. The activity argument is kind of damning but I've been criticized of not posting enough in town games before so idk how much weight I wanna put in it. I believe Mastina is passionate and believes in this read but I am not that convinced and I think theres plenty of time to sort this slot and maybe his night action can clear him, etc.
2) Double looks terrible. Each head has thrown shade and then the moment someone criticizes, the other heads like "eyyooo I don't agree with it so alls good"
3) Ircher wagon is dying and he is STILL one of my main SRs
4) Dunn is not happening today and
hold up I gtg.

[that's an extraordinarily bad post if BM scum. "You know what?" reads kinda fake]

[Although.. i do struggle to see what the incentive for scum!Noraa is to defend scum!BM actually. Would be a fun whiteknighting play I guess, free cops being distracted or extra miselimination]

Irrelevant when I flip town. So what does it mean in a world where I'm town, which you seem to think is possible?

[Battle Mage]

I provided some awhile ago. I guess I can provide a more comprehensive set.

Double the Trouble (Alisae and NorwegianboyEE) - Initially leaning scum, but I think it might just be the slot's abrasive nature, so I'm gonna town bin this slot actually. They've made some good observations.
Netflix and Chill (notscience and Brian Skies) - Town. Good takes in general.
Spiffeh - Maybe town? I'm worried about Spiffeh trying to pocket me/defending me because it will look good if I am eliminated and flip town. Nothing particularly scummy or townie that I've seen.
Creature - Not sure. I'm not super familiar with Creature's meta shift and haven't been deeply evaluating his posts. They always make me want to skim tbh.
Polar Bear Express (Noraa and Gloria Cleary) - Probably town, but has had a very bade case of OMGUS this game.
Ydrasse - Scum for reasons I've outlined earlier.
Solstice (Mistyx and Morning Tweet) - Maybe scum? There were some good observations about Tweet's tone earlier; it's a bit too formal.
pichu - Lean scum, but I may reevaluate this read at some point. I still think their early interaction with Ydrasse looked bad, but pichu looked better between the two. Has had a couple good takes since then.
Not Known 15 - No idea. Haven't seen too many posts from them. What U do know is that they're a rather serious and logical player.
Toogeloo - Not sure; slight twinge of scum maybe. Entrance was OK; hopping onto my wagon was kinda ehh.
MURDERCAT - Scum. I recently posted my thoughts on the matter.
Battle Mage - Maybe scum? I haven't read his recent posts, so it's too early for me to judge.
Bell - Lean scum. The way they pop in and out of the thread makes me think they have an ulterior motive.
Dr Easy Bake - Not sure but high scum equity. Refuses to play the game.
Dunnstral - Lean town. I gave some reasons in my last few posts.
mastina - Town. Generally bad takes from what I read, but she's definitely scumhunting and while she's efforted before as scum, it's still rather rare. I'll reevaluate when I have to.

surprised you have me as "maybe scum", when the reasons for my wagon generally go back to "I sheep mastina" and you recognise her takes are bad. You haven't given a reason for that read which I can recall as yet.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage

iirc, didn't NC set out why the case against me sucks and was leaning town on me previously? this came a bit out of nowhere

[Battle Mage]

ah I guess it's probably just hydra disagreement. Can we please have the smart head back?

also better VOTE: double the trouble as I owe Ircher one.

This post is indicative that Battle Mage is aware that Pooky made a pool of 4 players to eliminate within, containing both Ircher and Double the Trouble. It's a case of TMI given his stated narrative.

None of the posts in that range mentioned Pooky's pool of four, and yet somehow Battle Mage knows to vote Double the Trouble, one of the names in that pool of four, over Ircher, another name in the pool of four?

I call bullshit.

Battle Mage has read most of the thread already. Maybe genuinely not all of it, but he knows far, far more than he is pretending he knows.

This stood out to me in Mastina's case against Battle Mage. I don't really care that much about the other stuff she mentioned, but I don't really understand why Battle Mage would vote here or mention Ircher unless he did have some prior knowledge of the lynchpool. And I didn't find anything in his iso, or the immediately surrounding pages to indicate him just coming across it.

Yes, the vote was in response to Murdercat quoting a VoteCount, but it still doesn't explain why he'd feel the need to mention Ircher with his Double the Trouble vote (and just those two names).

I wouldn't say I'm confident in it or anything, I just feel like some of my reads need reassessment and that Mastina is probably onto something here.

So as I recall:

I looked at votecount
I saw Ircher and Double Trouble had the 2 biggest wagons
I voted DT as a placeholder because Ircher was reasonable about my VLA last weekend

I don't think I had any idea about the elim pool at that stage because I hadn't read up. You can see in my ISO when I figured it out, as I talked about being shocked at being in it!

[Battle Mage]

ah I think I read backwards somehow. Maybe NC hydra is ok.

[Battle Mage]

But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.

So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.

admittedly I think I forgot I wrote 734 and 743 isn't an amazing response to that.

why use the search function when u have no reason to?
doesn't make sense.

Given the rest of the post, feels more scum aligned than town aligned tbh

I didnt have much time to do anything on VLA but I also wanted to post SOMETHING. sue me like, in no universe is using the search function and openly stating as such, a scumtell.

I know that he's softing a power role, but I know for a fact that the way he's doing so is his scum meta because town-BM does not soft in that way whereas scum-BM does.

this is what convinced me at the time tho it is mostly just barking.

I don't follow this. You were mostly convinced because mastina said I did something which is in my scum meta? When:

A. Your own hydra has more completed games with me than Mastina and a better framework for judging my meta.
B. Mastina has 2 completed games with me, and in at least 1 of them I didn't 'soft' at all - I accidentally and embarrassingly hard-claimed for no reason.

In other words, it's simply Mastina making stuff up to suit her own tunnel, and you blindly sheeping it, despite knowing better.

[Battle Mage]

can someone give me a heads up if i get to -1 so i can claim? lol

Official Vote Count 1.11

Ircher

(6): Solstice, Netflix and Chill, MURDERCAT, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Toogeloo

Double the Trouble

(4): Dunnstral, pichu, Ydrasse, Not Known 15

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

Bell

(1): Creature

Ydrasse

(1): Ircher

Dunnstral

(1): Double the Trouble

Battle Mage

(1): mastina

Not Voting

(2): Dr Easy Bake, Battle Mage

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-12-14 16:00:00)

Good job guys. No prods needed.

You have 1 vote on you?

I think 1519 is a weird post here.

lol i wasnt reading (see: VLA) and thought i might be nearly getting elimmed as I had seen a few votes (presumably when using the search function). i'm not sure what's weird about it - it was just wrong.

[Battle Mage]

Okay, Ali. I'm willing to let you live.

on the basis of their response to your questions, or lack thereof, I...have no idea how you came to this conclusion.

[Battle Mage]

- Their read on me is not natural

Can you explain this one?

Well for starters
it kind of just feels like they picked a target and just decided to go after it
I don't think any of their interactions with norwee felt like they were in good faith and kind of just feel agenda based

Objectively speaking, to what extent do you feel this applies to Norwee in his approach towards me? Looking back at the ISO, he tunnelled me before I was even here for being VLA, and then has lazily ridden the coattails of everyone shading me since. There isn't a hint of good-faith solving from your slot towards mine, whereas I've been balanced and objective in my assessment of your slot. I haven't tunnelled, I haven't even said you would necessarily be the best elim today. This feels like you're re-writing history.

1793 is funny if you think about how he's done nothing to warrant calling himself someone with a propserity of obvtowning when quite frankly thats not what he's doing and if he was he probably wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

I mean what warrants that claim is:

A. The statistics which back it up, and you are aware of.
B. The experience most people who have played with me would attest to, and say in virtually every game I play.

If you're town here, bashing me as a player because of your shitty read, is...lame.

I've been perfectly coherent, clear and logical in debunking Mastina's bogus case, and whilst you originally sheeped it enthusiastically, you later claimed under pressure that you were intoxicated and didn't stand by it.

If I get mis-elimmed here, it categorically isn't for lack of effort, logic or towniness on my part.

everything after that just feels like them trying to shade our slot
even the mastina read in 1817 kinda just feels agenda motivated
and their interactions with spiffeh about me are kinda bad :/

this all basically amounts to OMGUS.

[Battle Mage]

Yeah you should at least tell Pooky your role the way you said you would BM, I'm not sure why you asked if you could do that instead of just doing it so no one would notice?

I already did it.

[Battle Mage]

I like my town block of Double, mastina, and Spiffeh.

I injured my back yesterday, so I'm a bit loopy today from meds, but I feel good about the Bowel Movement wagon. We need to see another vote there so that Pooky can Diane Sawyer his ass.

Bowel Movement? lovely

is that how you injured your back... shitting too hard?

[Battle Mage]

As any alignment I’m an advocate for getting D1 over with as soon as possible, valid claims could change things but generally I think the the information provided from D1’s elimination is more valuable than anything.

If there’s no good discussion surrounding the choice of wagon and why then it’s useless though.
I saw a game once where scum was quickhammered with minimal discussion. After that there was nothing to talk about and the last sxum went on to sweep the game because everyone just assumed they were town for lolvoting their buddy.

- Norwee

"i saw a game once"? - you were in that game. so was i. keep it honest, my boy.

[Battle Mage]

Yes, Mastina is calling me confscum here, in the same way she did when we were Morning Mage.

[yeah that's what i was worried about. And you're assuming her reads are all off the mark, just like that game as well -- i just don't trust you two scumreading/pushing each other much lol]

I'm not even really scumreading her, dude. Certainly not for pushing me anyway - that's her town-MO, and no reason why she'd do it differently as scum.

I'm not assuming her reads are all off the mark as such, but my observations are this:

Mastina has 1 independent read - BM scum.
All Mastina's other reads are based on a presumption of BM-scum, whereby she townreads those who attack me, and scumreads those who don't.

So some of her reads may be right, but they are pretty much all based on that 1 false premise. Which is why I gently offered her the advice about being balanced and objective and not just tunnelling 1 person for 80 pages with little else to show for it. You know I've run that race.

interesting here you suggest you don't agree with Ircher defending me....yet you hadn't really commented on me at all prior to this.

Can you talk me through your read here?

[i think Double was confirm biased, more or less, early while scumreading you, i didn't find the whole searching for your name ordeal scummy. i also hilariously enough am not reading mastina's posts on why you're a liar much cause I think she suffers from some kind of bias as well]

you ain't missing much. I think those are both plausible takes. It's not outside the realms of possibility that Norwee-Alisae are town who are tunnelling me because Norwee would love to try and elim me, and Alisae genuinely isn't interested in following his own reads and thinks it's better to trust Mastina whose alignment he may or may not know. But we are talking 2 good players (of the ilk I expect Flavor Leaf would be keen to recruit) and I guess I just expect a bit more from them as town? Like Norwee as town can be really good. Here I don't think they've dealt well with pressure, on the few occassions they've been under it.

[i am pretty bad at reading you, worse than you know, and I haven't really gotten any pings in either direction. I think you could be scum in spite of what i have seen from Double/mastina, and it's also very possible im discrediting mastina falsely. If i were confident in a townread i'd oppose the wagon but I am fine with it at the moment. I prefer Ircher/Creature though]

[i think your reads are largely good in 1912 although I'm unsure on Double being scummy.]

[I see that you found Norwe's interactions with you to be bad faith. The only problem is I'm not sure that necessitates him being scum at all]

[do you have an opinion on Ircher, btw?]

~Morning

So you basically think I could be scum just by statistical chance, but there's no real reason either way? I guess that's ok, but my suggestion would be that you take something from those who are bad-faithing me, in the absence of any direct tells from me. I.e. if I'm basically neutral, but a bunch of people are trying to run me up on crappy arguments, that might indicate I'm more likely to be town.

Just a thought though.

[Battle Mage]

As any alignment I’m an advocate for getting D1 over with as soon as possible, valid claims could change things but generally I think the the information provided from D1’s elimination is more valuable than anything.

If there’s no good discussion surrounding the choice of wagon and why then it’s useless though.
I saw a game once where scum was quickhammered with minimal discussion. After that there was nothing to talk about and the last sxum went on to sweep the game because everyone just assumed they were town for lolvoting their buddy.

- Norwee

"i saw a game once"? - you were in that game. so was i. keep it honest, my boy.

You being in that game is completely irrelevant to what i said. Unless you’re an egomaniac that’s offended i didn’t mention you were there or something.

- Norwee

you said "i saw a game once" when the reality was more like "i was in a game very recently". I think being misleading can become a force of habit when you're 'in character' Norwee

[Battle Mage]

i'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's scum indicative to cherry-pick your responses to people scumreading you, only focussing on the smaller issues to give the appearance of a diminished case against you.

A clever strategy Norwee, but a transparent one.

[Battle Mage]

I think whatever happens, I've given a decent account of myself here, in the 2 real life days I've been properly involved. The case against me is basically about my activity levels while VLA, which I think is somewhat diminished by my activity since, and I have comprehensively rebutted Mastina's arguments which others have hidden behind. I don't know if my reads will be hugely helpful as they aren't that strong yet in most cases, but there's some info to be gained from my elim I guess. Overall I feel like it's a fking waste to mis-elim me today but I'll take some comfort in it being Pooky's call if that happens. Pooky, I've told you my role (mith at the party) so consider the best way to play that.

And in closing for now, as I teeter on the brink of annihilation, an unashamed AtE to

Pooky:

Mate, please don't mis-elim me Day 1. My town winrate this year is shit, and the one thing I've got going is the 30-game no mis-elim streak. Also I'd like to actually keep playing and trying to inject some logic where it has been missing. I think I'm playing well so far here and being a good contributor to the team. I have every confidence in your ability to read me - you know I am a zero-effort lurker who struggles to get involved as scum, and an over-zealous spambot who has his fingers in every pie as town (scum/notgoodtown here have taken advantage of the fact I was spending time with my family over the weekend as a means to opportunistically push me as a lurker, but that hasn't borne out).
Exactly like our last game as town together, I'm basically relying on you to keep my ass alive here to avoid me being the first one elimmed.

If you do elim me, please like avenge me tomorrow by terminating the scum driving my wagon. And probably most of all my advice would be to actively lead from the front - any town elimming me Day 1 for no good reason, needs help. The case on me is, objectively-speaking, woeful.

If you wanna chat, in real time, let's chat. Otherwise, always love ya buddy, keep it real. <3

[Battle Mage]

that was genuinely therapeutic for me, if nothing else.

[Battle Mage]

ah fuck, ircher seems to be right - my crumb doesnt work.

let me think of something else for ya Pooks

[Battle Mage]

ok i'm consulting Titus on what is and isn't permissible. if all else fails, ill just have to claim lol

[Battle Mage]

ok Pooks, here goes:

I'm the same role as in, what I consider to be, your greatest ever victory. Anyone who says otherwise, is a bare-faced liar.

[Battle Mage]

lol Pooky please come here and save me dude, I'm about to get ravaged by these animals....

[Battle Mage]

I think whatever happens, I've given a decent account of myself here, in the 2 real life days I've been properly involved. The case against me is basically about my activity levels while VLA, which I think is somewhat diminished by my activity since, and I have comprehensively rebutted Mastina's arguments which others have hidden behind. I don't know if my reads will be hugely helpful as they aren't that strong yet in most cases, but there's some info to be gained from my elim I guess. Overall I feel like it's a fking waste to mis-elim me today but I'll take some comfort in it being Pooky's call if that happens. Pooky, I've told you my role (mith at the party) so consider the best way to play that.

And in closing for now, as I teeter on the brink of annihilation, an unashamed AtE to

Pooky:

Mate, please don't mis-elim me Day 1. My town winrate this year is shit, and the one thing I've got going is the 30-game no mis-elim streak. Also I'd like to actually keep playing and trying to inject some logic where it has been missing. I think I'm playing well so far here and being a good contributor to the team. I have every confidence in your ability to read me - you know I am a zero-effort lurker who struggles to get involved as scum, and an over-zealous spambot who has his fingers in every pie as town (scum/notgoodtown here have taken advantage of the fact I was spending time with my family over the weekend as a means to opportunistically push me as a lurker, but that hasn't borne out).
Exactly like our last game as town together, I'm basically relying on you to keep my ass alive here to avoid me being the first one elimmed.

If you do elim me, please like avenge me tomorrow by terminating the scum driving my wagon. And probably most of all my advice would be to actively lead from the front - any town elimming me Day 1 for no good reason, needs help. The case on me is, objectively-speaking, woeful.

If you wanna chat, in real time, let's chat. Otherwise, always love ya buddy, keep it real. <3

[Battle Mage]

sweet pagetop, couldn't resist

Pooky, your most loyal disciple is here.

[Battle Mage]

Mastina, there's a difference between me showing up and reading a few posts on the latest page / searching for my name in the searchbar, and reading the whole, or even significant parts of the game.

Let me set out the issues with your allegations:

1. Mastina alleges BM pretended not to have read any of the game while on V/LA, when I had actually been secretly reading significant parts of it.
A. Why on earth would BM-scum pretend not to be reading the game? Where's the motive?
B. If I had actually read the game, why would I subsequently spend several hours trawling through and giving my thoughts on everything?
C. If I had read the game, why would I say something about possibly being close to E-1, when I was nowhere near?

2. Mastina alleges that BM lied about being on VLA to avoid posting in this game, whilst posting in other games, implying he is scum here and town elsewhere.
A. I did not read/post any content in the majority of my games during VLA. The LA in VLA stands for Limited Access.
B. The game I posted in most frequently was reaching it's climax (Day 3 with only town dead, me once again on the cusp of a town-defeat) and it was the highest priority game to keep on top of.
C. Why would I pretend to be VLA for 2 days to avoid posting in this game? Clearly I wasn't going to adopt a lurking strategy, and if you thought that might be the case, it hasn't borne out in practice - something you conveniently ignore.

In short, Mastina, your claims I lied don't add up because there is no reason for me as scum to lie about them, and in any case they are demonstrably false to anyone who actually bothers to look.

Let me ask you a question:

Do you think, given we are now 80 pages into the game, there is anything else of merit for you to comment on?

You could give some thoughts on other players besides me - reads which don't simply lean on your false premise of me being scum.
Or you could give some thoughts on the things I've actually posted, rather than the things you bash me for not posting because I wasn't here. I have like 150 posts - do you have anything new to say about any of them?

It makes me laugh that despite you slating my lack of activity and using that to make a lazy and ill-considered claim that I'm scum, I've literally made twice as many posts as you, and a much more far-reaching contribution. On the occasions you pop up in the thread, it appears all you do is trawl through the game, look for references to me, and then regurgitate your old debunked theories.

[Battle Mage]

there is definitely a problem with this site meta that posting lots of words, a la Mastina, is considered good, even if the underlying logic is fundamentally flawed

I've said this before and I will say it countless times more.

I will always be verbose, is part of my nature as someone with autism. I will say with 10 words what 2 words would perhaps still convey.

But I am never townread for the amount of words, nor am I sheeped because I make the words.
I am townread because of the content within the words and sheeped because it resonates.

I think that's incorrect. In the games we've played, you've been townread for making big long posts, not because people necessarily agree with them. I just wish you would take a step back in these situations, when you're town, and see the big picture and/or critically appraise your own position. All I have ever really seen from your game is random tunnels on me, weak explanations, and then doubling-down and self-congratulation in equal measure. The reality is your entire focus for 80 pages of this game has been on peddling propaganda about me being scum, when I'm not. You haven't engaged with me in a meaningful protown way, and from what I've seen of your engagement with other people, it's been almost exclusively predicated on me flipping-scum (which isn't going to happen). That's not to say I think you're scum here, but I don't think your play is in any sense 'pro-town' - and that would be true even if my slot had been scum. Discussion is good, and your approach to my slot has been an impediment to proper discussion.

The argument of "people sheep long posts that are bad" frequently comes from scum trying to out-maneuver me, and just as often this is pretty damn evident when they insist that my posts are bad/flawed...and yet when called out on it, either they refuse to explain, or their explanation is flawed, or they misrepresent my stance and rely on people not rereading my posts to realize that they were doing so.

No Mastina, it's the reality of what is happening here, whether you're scum or town. Your long posts in respect of me, are clearly not accurate and I have explained why on several occasions. I appreciate you went to a lot of effort to make them, but again your comment above just proves my point. You won't accept anyone telling you that you're wrong, because you default to the fallacy that anyone who disagrees with you is probably just scum. That's not good townplay, any more than selling a bogus case on somebody for not posting much whilst on VLA as a justification for elimming them.

Rare is the day that someone says my logic is fundamentally flawed, and then they accurately point out logical reasons that my logic is actually flawed--and when they actually do so, I will fully acknowledge them by owning up to having made a bad argument and listen to their point because of their genuinely good take.

I think that's simply your ego talking. In every game we've shared, I've seen people explain issues with your logic and I can't recall you ever backing down. It clearly doesn't matter what I say to you, whether I'm right or wrong, because you have a very high opinion of yourself, and very little respect for me. And you can't bring yourself to consider the possibility that I might be town, and you might just be wrong. And the frustrating thing is, when you are proven wrong, I'm sure you'll blow it off as being my fault - when you made no effort to consider me in good-faith (as is always your way).

I'm sure she has noted that my activity was similar to here in the majority of my games, but it's inconvenient for her 'case'.

You did not make 12 posts declaring yourself V/LA over the weekend in your other games. That is a trait unique to this one.

In fact, TGP's Normal was not the only game you made content in at the time, but obviously TGP's is the only one which I can discuss due to it being the only one that ended. The relevant spot for this is currently on page 13 of this search, to be moved further back for people when you post more and to become unable to be viewed come Saturday.

If you were in six games, it is correct to say you did not post content in all of them.
But you didn't post at all in three of them if so. (I count two instances of you posting in the endgame of completed games, then a total of three games, two being this one and TGP's game.)
You did post here, making this game indeed unique among your ongoing games.

As the only game you were a living player in, that you posted in, but posted zero content during, but still posted a lot.

I think you're skirting with the rules on referring to ongoing games, and I think I've said quite enough on this already. Essentially your argument is:

"Battle Mage posted a few times here, but nothing substantial, during his VLA"

The biggest problem is...then what? Why does that make me any more likely to be scum?

Answer: it doesn't.

Mastina, you've been so wrapped up in this idea that you can shoot some dirty meta-angle to solve my slot, you've missed the most important thing - explaining why my post-rate over the weekend in this game makes me more likely to be scum. But it's completely NAI, and I think your approach here is pretty poor form, and self-evidently bad-faith.

[Battle Mage]

BM you need to claim your role

thanks.

I'm a VT

No idea where people got the soft-claim thing from, but didn't want to comment on it either way, in case you wanted me to eat an NK tonight.

[Battle Mage]

i will admit, if that was the exit interview, it was an anti-climax lol

[Battle Mage]

Why were you so worried about having time to claim?
How is that not a soft?

lol i wasn't that worried - it was just a normal BM response to seeing a few votes and not really knowing what was going on.

it...just wasn't a soft. *shrug*

[Battle Mage]

can someone give me a heads up if i get to -1 so i can claim? lol

Pooky, do you know the roles in the setup but not who has what role? If so, would it be useful for me to tell you my role (in a way nobody else would possibly know)?

how the fuck u gonna post these

BM you need to claim your role

thanks.

I'm a VT

No idea where people got the soft-claim thing from, but didn't want to comment on it either way, in case you wanted me to eat an NK tonight.

and then post this

ah 1572 was because i was exploring the idea of crumbing to Pooky that I was VT without actually claiming VT, to give him more info on the setup.

i've covered 1519 in my previous post i think

literally baffled at everyone saying it was a soft-PR-claim. Wanting the opportunity to claim doesn't imply you're a PR, and also it was a jokey not-knowing-what-was-going-on post anyway.

[Battle Mage]

oh really
i'll look into that BM

I did since I figured I'd be the only player who bothered to check.

Battle Mage has claimed that, at the time, he was an active player in 6 games, including this one and TGP's recently-ended Mini Normal.
This shouldn't be one of them, because it is listed as being in postgame. It cannot be one of the games he didn't post content in as a result.
This also shouldn't be one of them, because it is listed as being in postgame. It cannot be one of the games he didn't post content in as a result.

He didn't post content in this game, but posted 12 times here.

He posted content in TGP's now-completed Normal and one other game.

He didn't post in any other game, not even contentless.
It was a total of five games--two in postgame at the time he posted in them, a third being TGP's, and a fourth being this game.

So why the contentless posting in this game, rather than either not posting at all (what he claims is what he'd do on V/LA), or the content posting of the other two?

Why did he display a trait unique to this game?

I mean the reality Mastina, if you cared to consider it, is that I displayed a unique trait in each game, as I posted with different frequencies in each (including in some, as you note, not at all). It isn't as simple as "BM did a unique thing in this game whilst in other games he followed a clear post/don't post pattern" - that is factually untrue. But you're still missing the pivotal question, which is why me doing something different in 1 game, implies I'm town in all of the others and scum here.

The problem of this is two-fold:

1. You are pushing an angle-shooting argument which doesn't actually indicate I'm scum at all, and you haven't attempted to make an assessment of my alignment based on it.
2. You are pushing an argument which is fundamentally unfair and not in the spirit of the game as it relies on my behaviour in ongoing games, which neither of us are allowed to comment on.

As such, I'd ask that you don't push this further, in the interest of ensuring we can both adhere to the rules.

[Battle Mage]

I think Norwee-Alisae is probably scum. Hard to believe 2 such capable players, 1 of whom has lots of experience with me, would both be scumreading me here.

What was i supposed to townread you off? Your inordinate amount of nothing stances and dodgy behaviour? BoP arguments only really work if meta suggests i’m wrong, but if we go by meta you are clearly acting way off your normal townie behaviour.

- Norwee

I mean what exactly are you expecting me to be seeing from you here?

A town BM that makes weak votes, says they didn’t read the game but not really, and in the end brings up Burden of Proficiency when called out on it?

- Norwee

For the record: these are both solid posts for casing BM as scum and showing why Norwee is town.

I will be interested to see the extent to which you U-turn on this tomorrow after I flip town, and you need someone else to tunnel. Although from memory, in the last game we played together, after I was conftown (mason, ironically), you just lurked for the remainder until you got NKed. So that would be disappointing.

[Battle Mage]

Mastina...do you like realise I'm probably getting elimmed today anyway? You're just making yourself look worse and worse, and achieving literally nothing because we know the script - if you attack BM, you're town, until BM flips town.

[Battle Mage]

noraa, if Pooky decides I'm dying today, I want you to have the hammer.

It's only right we maintain the tradition.

[Battle Mage]

Mastina...do you like realise I'm probably getting elimmed today anyway? You're just making yourself look worse and worse, and achieving literally nothing because we know the script - if you attack BM, you're town, until BM flips town.

this is more in line with town!mastina then scum!mastina

I...didn't say it wasn't? I'm pretty neutral on Mastina, as I've been saying for a while because:

She does literally this as town, all the time
She is probably capable of doing so as scum too.

[Battle Mage]

the slot claimed vt noraa
how does that change your opinion of the slot

haha please do something about Alisae tomorrow.

Sneakily trying to lobby for people to quick-elim me before Pooky shows up and reads the sentence.

Not the first time I've seen it.

[Battle Mage]

man i have experienced a rollercoaster of emotions in this game.

now im fking depressed lol

feel like i did everything right here, and there's still a good chance Pooky is roasting my balls tonight.

damn

[Battle Mage]

i didnt soft PR

[Battle Mage]

man, can people just let me die in peace, with some dignity? haha

[Battle Mage]

norwee, i literally did explain this for your other head, about 10 minutes ago. after spending so much of this game complaining i wasnt reading the game, might be nice for you to do so now.

[Battle Mage]

man, can people just let me die in peace, with some dignity? haha

Scum claiming.

- Norwee

dude please quit trolling me.

Im town.

I'm not 'scumclaiming'

I've tried my fking best to talk sense and logic and put in a good amount of effort, including trying to talk sense to mastina.

gloat in your PT, or bitch after i'm dead. until then, try and do something productive.

[Battle Mage]

i'm done for the night

pooky, if you're killing a brother, don't drag it out

[Battle Mage]

page 51. I'm coming round to the idea that I'd like to elim a quieter low-profile slot today. seems to work a treat in large themes lately.

Funny because until recently and maybe even after that (haven't gotten caught up so don't know the nature of all your content), you'd count as a quieter slot that was acting uncharacteristically low-profile.

Mastina, "until recently"?

The game is like 5 rl days old. I've been posting actively for nearly half that time. I was "uncharacteristically low-profile" whilst on VLA and not posting in the majority of my games, as you have admitted yourself.

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.

Hello wall, nice to see ya.

[Battle Mage]

noraa, i didnt soft PR. I think ppl just read that into something i said, which 100% was not intended. apparently it's because i said I'd want to claim if i got to -1? that doesn't imply I'm a PR.

hilariously, even mastina noted "BM doesn't normally soft PR like that". Because I didn't soft PR. People just drew that conclusion for themselves. My crumbs are a bit more obvious than that (you know this)

but it doesn't matter anyway. I'm at E-2, there's clearly a declared majority for my elim regardless of what you think.

Just waiting on Pooky with the all-important verdict.

[Battle Mage]

did you just defend battle mage for softing PR but not even read the arguements for why he was being pushed?

activity levels low. not consistent. lied about role.
did I get it all right?

-nronor

im the 4th highest poster in a game with 4 hydras
i am a human being behind a computer screen who sometimes has things other than mafia to do - hence posting a bit less on some weekends
I didn't lie about my role

[Battle Mage]

Pooky, do you know the roles in the setup but not who has what role? If so, would it be useful for me to tell you my role (in a way nobody else would possibly know)?

What would be the point of going out of your way to soft vt?

as you saw, i had a clever idea to crumb my role so Pooky would figure it out but nobody else would - giving townstump more info on setup is good. it wasn't actually that clever in practice, but i tried. im not actually convinced he read any of it. *shrug*

[Battle Mage]

odd to see Creature popping up again to complain about gamestate when they haven't been doing much themselves.

Funny, that seems to perfectly capture you complaining about the gamestate of you being wagoned when you haven't done much yourself.

mastina, you might have an issue with me because i tell you the truth about your arguments, but there's no need to be a jerk. I've done probably more than anybody in the 2 days i've actually been here. it probably doesn't actually count for much, but no lack of effort on my part.

[Battle Mage]

My heart strings are getting pulled so hard by nearly every post BM makes. I don't know what to make of it.

Is this what pooky felt in Death Curse?

It's day 1 and I'm feeling like I just witnessed a murder of a small child or something.

I just ... he's so desperate.

-medunnonornor

i'm actually legit upset that an old friend is about to elim me Day 1 after i put in a fuck tonne of effort in a short space of time, and did my absolute best, probably talking more sense than i do in most of my games.

but whatever, it's just a game i guess.

[Battle Mage]

I think town!BM would be way less selfish and AtE’ish if town here. Basically he’s quit pushing his scumreads in favour of pushing this sob story and escape the elimination.
That’s my impression here.

- Norwee

lol shocking take norwee! you really surprise me....

funny enough, my scumreads don't really matter atm - it's literally a question of whether Pooky decides to elim me or save my ass.

it's not selfish for me to try and avoid a mis-elim - it's an inherent part of my wincon.

[Battle Mage]

noraa, i didnt soft PR. I think ppl just read that into something i said, which 100% was not intended. apparently it's because i said I'd want to claim if i got to -1? that doesn't imply I'm a PR.

hilariously, even mastina noted "BM doesn't normally soft PR like that". Because I didn't soft PR. People just drew that conclusion for themselves. My crumbs are a bit more obvious than that (you know this)

but it doesn't matter anyway. I'm at E-2, there's clearly a declared majority for my elim regardless of what you think.

Just waiting on Pooky with the all-important verdict.

my eyes see this and go hmm
my heart sees this and wants to believe
I've been feeling so trapped regarding BM because I don't belong on BM's wagon but I also don't belong off. I don't know where I stand ya know?

Some moments I'm thinking I want to defend BM bc he just has to be town
Some moments I'm thinking I should vote BM bc he just has to be scum

I am lost

-nornor

yeah you dont need to vote me here - i'm at E-2, and Pooky said to wait at E-2 until he makes the decision. If he gives the green light, you can burn me.

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage: "Oh look at how much work i’ve put into my posts! But now those dastardly scum has me cornered! Nobody has done more than me! Waa Waa!"

- Norwee

thanks dude, you're making me feel much better

[Battle Mage]

My heart empathizes with BM too.

But unfortunately he is mafia. And though he is very good at evoking sympathy, i still stand by my reasoning for why he is scum as correct.

- Norwee

if i'm wrong about you and you're actually town...i hope to God you do more tomorrow than just be a relentless cheerleader for a mis-elim.

[Battle Mage]

maybe mastina and DT are both scum. i'm struggling to see why 2 town players are pushing so hard for me to be elimmed as i sit precariously as E-2 when there's like...nothing to gain from doing so?

the chips are all in, the decision is with Pooky. But I feel like there is an agenda to get me flipped before he makes that call...just in case he makes a big play.

[Battle Mage]

Also mastina is very convincing tbh its quite unusual.

I've been quite convincing for the last two years or so!

And yet, people never cease to be surprised that I'm making reasonable and rational points in my cases.

this is my 3rd game with mastina this year. in all 3 games, she decided i was scum at the beginning and did little else other than tunnel me for the duration. In 1 game I was scum, in the other 2 town (incl. this one). I don't consider her read on me to be genuine, it's just what mastina does.

Just for the record.

Battle Mage is using the exact same style of discrediting me that Flavor Leaf uses.

I'd love to call that proof that BM is one of FL's chosen scum

, but sadly, I am forced to admit that BM's style of discrediting me is almost assuredly uninfluenced by FL in that if BM were scum trying to discredit me in a different game lacking a scum-FL he'd be no different.

I do find it fascinating tho. That both BM and FL have the exact same style of trying to discredit me when they're scum. Is probably among the reasons FL picked Battle Mage, if I had to guess; FL sees BM as a scum player whose style resonates with his own.

haha the only problem with this...as with all your posts in this game...is that i'm town. which renders your entire post redundant. whoops!

another bit of friendly advice: if you are town, your objective should be to FIND OUT WHO IS SCUM, not SET OUT TO FRAME SOMEONE AS SCUM, as per the bold above.

[Battle Mage]

we'll see. i've never seen mastina scum, but to somebody's point earlier, I'm willing to believe Flavor Leaf could coach Mastina to play to her town meta as scum.

[Battle Mage]

i'm actually legit upset that an old friend is about to elim me Day 1

You know Pooky isn't lynching you, right? In fact he's barely had anything to do with your wagon other than include you in the PoE-4.

my gut feeling is he probably is. he turned up, asked for a claim, and left. didn't wanna talk to me, or engage with anything i'd said.

[Battle Mage]

i can also see pooky taking the view that losing a VT on Day 1 aint that bad.

[Battle Mage]

i mean, i've never done it before as town

or scum

, so isn't that the definition of being NAI?

No.

When you claim to have done an action you've never done before as town or scum, there is, very likely, an alignment-indicative reason for having done it for the first time.

In the case of this game, the town reason to have done it is: ???
There's nothing I can think of as justification to have done it as town.

In the case of this game, the scum reason to have done it is, EITHER: you didn't, you lied and invented this as your excuse for the beetlegeus appearance, OR: you read the scum PT, were being kept up to date, and searched for your name to augment the information from the scum PT in making your appearance.

Both are fairly compelling reasons for you to have claimed to have done it, and both fit with your apparent knowledge of things you shouldn't have knowledge of.

your imagination is wild. but

Spoiler:

there's no alignment indicative reason. I was VLA, I had a couple mins, didn't want to high effort, so just searched for my name. you desperately want it to be AI to add weight to your push, but what you should be doing is to looking at the facts and judging them on their merits. But don't take advice from me of course.

I'm not going to re-tread old ground and respond to the Mastina stuff in detail.

AKA, you can't actually argue against them because they're true.

no Mastina, honestly I was bored of pointing out the weaknesses of your arguments over and over again. i figured i'd achieved the first goal of debunking them to the existent nobody paying attention would agree with them. The ultimate goal of persuading you that they were bad...was out of reach. I have the self-awareness to understand what is and is not achievable.

It's all a bit like this - superficial one-dimensional takes which don't show any evidence of balanced objective assessment.

I believe I've done a pretty damn good job in showing this is false, that my takes have plenty of evidence backing their assessment and that there is depth to them.

I completely disagree. your takes are 1-dimensional and trivial. your case on me was a bad-faith, poor-form, angle-shoot argument about me having a different VLA activity pattern here to some of my other games. Not only was your argument provably incorrect for anyone who bothered to look, but even if you were correct, you failed to make any attempt to argue why it would be alignment indicative for me to have the posting pattern I did here. Of course, you couldn't argue that, which is presumably why you didn't even try. But the idea your arguments have had any depth is laughable - you're doing little else beyond pushing me as scum without any coherent reason for

why

I would be scum.

[Battle Mage]

lol Mastina, I'm very strongly of the opinion that you are literally just throwing a townread to everyone who votes me. madness

Creature voted you and he is very much not a townread of me.

I can also describe the reasons for my townread on every slot in the game I am townreading, and none of the reasons are "I don't think they're scum with BM" or "I think their BM vote makes them town".

Try again to misrep me.

mastina you promised earlier to post a readslist and some actual analysis on people other than me, which was more than just "Player X is good coz they vote BM" which is all you've given so far.

I'd be delighted if you came good on this promise, especially if it was at the expense of wasting my time arguing with you about your non-existent case on me.

Prove to me you can do it. I believe in you.

[Battle Mage]

Noraa you became quite sassy.
There may be hope for you yet.

- Norwee

*flips hair*
I'll just talk to u. I like your half of the hydra.

If ur scum, u has gotta tell Ali to step up the game cuz Ali bein p transparently scummy :/

-nornor

i agree Alisae is the scummier head, but he's also the nicer head. I actually think the balance is good.

[Battle Mage]

BM I think you basically have to go at some point this game for multiple reasons. I'd rather do Noraa first but I think you probably need to go some time and you won't get NK'd. If you are town I empathize with your position but it really seemed like you were softing to me.

lol what are those reasons? the way i see it, if Pooky came in and veto'd my elim, scum are probably forced to NK me at some point. Although that would be a big play by Pooky. It's all strategy though. I maintain it seems silly to elim me here, given there's no good case on me, and I'm an active player, clearly playing to my town meta. Like, it's a no-brainer.

The only good reason for elimming me is that I'm not a power role, and elimming me here means no PRs are outted today. but the aim of the game is to elim scum.

[Battle Mage]

I'd like to see you give a readlist with thoughts at some point though

eh, i dunno if there's much point me doing another readslist - i did one of sorts yesterday. if i can't even keep myself alive today, clearly my reads don't count for much.

[Battle Mage]

at some point someone should go back and figure out who started that "BM is softing" thing, and who piggybacked off it.

A problem for another day.

[Battle Mage]

It was me I think

this is all your fault murdercat

i hope you're happy with yourself

[Battle Mage]

fair play for owning up to it though

[Battle Mage]

So if you genuinely believe that a player looking to be in their town meta cannot be trusted to be town, and IF you insist that this is your town meta (it's not)--why should we trust that when by your own logic, we shouldn't trust you to be town off of meta?

@_@
*confusion*

-nornor

haha i thought that was the first good point mastina made all game. Of course, as ever, it only came through her lens of "I must do everything in my power to elim BM, regardless of his alignment". But it's true, maybe me playing to my town-meta doesn't count for as much in this game. Although I suppose it depends if you think FL would coach me like that. Given my scumgame is pretty good, it seems less likely that he would try, or I would listen. And besides, I'm pretty self-aware, and do actually try and improve my game anyway, so the fact I'm still pretty obvious as town/scum isn't for lack of trying on my part.

[Battle Mage]

It was me I think

this is all your fault murdercat

i hope you're happy with yourself

/shrug

The reasons by the way mean you still have high scum equity so I doubt the vt claim changes pooky's mind

i dont even know what you mean by high scum equity here. as far as i can see, i've been run up for pretty much no reason. and i don't know what pooky's mind is, although agree the VT claim probably isn't going to get him too excited about keeping me around.

[Battle Mage]

at some point someone should go back and figure out who started that "BM is softing" thing, and who piggybacked off it.

A problem for another day.

Murder started it. Dunno if I'm considered as "piggybacking off it" but eh.

-nornor

i'd actually give you reprieve, given you didn't then use it as a stick to beat me with. There's no benefit to you approaching it the way you did if you were scum.

[Battle Mage]

also, people criticising me for using AtE and pleading for my life, please BEAR in mind....

this is unfamiliar territory for me.

[Battle Mage]

i dont even know what you mean by high scum equity here. as far as i can see, i've been run up for pretty much no reason. and i don't know what pooky's mind is, although agree the VT claim probably isn't going to get him too excited about keeping me around.

Me neither really but I assume if Pooky was unhappy with the current state of things he would have done something about it, no? Rather than make you claim

yeah i'm inclined to agree. I think the gamestate is pretty unhealthy, as most scum are probably sitting back while i'm on deathrow, and maybe 1 or 2 others are fanning the flames, but who knows for sure? for me, I can't do much more than defend myself and make the case for me not dying, and it's in Pooky's hands. But if he elims me without talking to me directly, that's a complete waste when I think he can read me correctly here.

[Battle Mage]

I'm willing to go on BM after pooky finishes the whole exit interview thingie.
BM's right tho. I gotta get the hammer to keep the tradition going
If BM flips green, I take zero responsibility whatsoever. Don't care what happens. I'm not claiming even the slightest bit of responsibility.
If BM flips red, U-U I wants to take a little bit of ze credit :3 and also I'm going 200 mph after Murder. There is no reason to have his terrible stance around the BM wagon.

-nornor

is that coz u actually think im scum? i don't think you get any credit if you hammer me whilst actually thinking i would flip red.

i kinda feel like the exit interview might not even be a thing. and yeah, doesnt make sense for Pooky to ask me to claim if he wasn't minded to elim me. No idea why he would want to elim me. Maybe he has some bad masons who are giving him bad reads.

[Battle Mage]

well it's nearly 2:30am, no sign of Pooky for some realtime chat, so I'm gonna catch some z's.

[Battle Mage]

im still here, you gonna talk to me now?

[Battle Mage]

dude im fking town.

you know this! use your read on me, and ignore your presumably shitty masons.

[Battle Mage]

do you seriously believe i'm scum here? you know my scum meta is lurking like hell and low-efforting.

you can also see i've been a lone warrior for the Pooky-cause so far here.

so why am i even up for getting elimmed?

[Battle Mage]

i cant believe it Pooks. Pouring my heart and soul out to you here.

Can't you see my zealous and earnest towniness oozing out?

[Battle Mage]

well you did lurk pretty hard bro

you also care way too much man - i think town!bm doesnt care nearly as much

also like flava flav thinks you're super good

dude i was spending the weekend with my daughter and didn't have time to post during the day. I posted in my high priority games (a minority of total games) during that 2 day period. all of this is literally evident if you look.

i care because i hate the idea of being miselimmed, i especially hate the idea of being miselimmed day 1, and i especially especially hate the idea of being mis-elimmed on the orders of my mate. I'm also trying hard because tbh, i was quite chuffed to get into this game and wanted to give a good account of myself. Loyal to the cause.

FL does think I'm good, but I guess maybe I got vetoed or he thought it was too predictable, I dunno.

[Battle Mage]

if its too late for you we can do this tomm

we got time but its looking like you gotta walk today

fucking gonna kill me if you're town here bro

dude that's why im giving you everything i got to try and convince you im town. but you gotta open your heart and see it maybe, if the head ain't doing it.