Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[shellyc]

VOTE: Andres

sure, lets waltz

[shellyc]

Hello everybody.

newbscum entrance scumtell alert

[shellyc]

Why didn't you vote? Also explain?

i voted in my post EXACTLY before that so...?

it was a joke. but newer scum often greet the entire thread as an opening. (no offense andres)

[shellyc]

johnny seems lamisty. projecting the image of "Moving out of RVS" very strongly. yet moving to some fluff soon after poking at people with questions. scumlean

[shellyc]

But is he scum? How can you tell? I've never seen it

yeah things like this is leaf-raking*

*busywork that is of no value but gives towncred

[shellyc]

pagetop

andres' tone is pretty decent btw

[shellyc]

UNVOTE:

yeah this is the pagetop

[shellyc]

no plusjoy was referring to hanks post

im referring to my own post

[shellyc]

Really just illustrating my point. How have you been Shelly? Do you have reads on anyone else? I know I've got like 40 posts already so I'm easy.

andres is probtown because of tone
unwnd is probtown (less than andres though) because the poking at you seems pretty inquisitive

you have gone from a scumlean to a scumread
frustration from joking doesn't seem genuine especially when compared to other games

[shellyc]

dunn buddy attempt denied

i totally deathtunnel as high effort town though

[shellyc]

VOTE: JohnnyVOTE:

[shellyc]

VOTE: Johnny

[shellyc]

johnny discrediting me rather than trying to solve me is indicative of an informed perspective

[shellyc]

dunn is similar to epilogue. townlean

johnny was quite lamisty in bus service (scum!him town!me) especially when pushed ("i'll flip green where will you look next?")

flavour, can you back up that meta read of yours with links?
FL seems a bit overconfident which I'd expect from scum!him more because flavour treats playing scum as performing/theatre (quite like myself)

nopointactingup gaslighting dunn as "100% confident on town!shelly" is scummy. also the backtracking when met with resistance from dunn/unwnd i dislike.

fuzzy feels very surface level but is more verbose than what I've seen of scum!him atm.

unwnd's thoughts quite align with my own.

[shellyc]

unwnd and nopoint: what do you think of each other?

nopoint, despite you thinking unwnd's early posting as townie, has unwnd's passionate defense of dunn changed your mind?

[shellyc]

Anways Not Mafia is giving all indication of his town game. He did this last game as town and in the other game I saw where he is town.

fuzzy, N_M's openpost is NAI or else it would fall under the definition of a trust tell

[shellyc]

to elaborate on dunn a bit more: similarities from epilogue include being very opinionated/direct.

i also see a certain town passion/fire to defend himself against votes that (imo) arent that well-reasoned and are based off vague meta or misrep

[shellyc]

why would you defend a null

[shellyc]

The problem with nopoint I have is that he is arguing with the same process he is. It reads to me like a potential scum who didn't have prior thoughts so they just defaulted to turning the original argument against his attacker

can you phrase this another way because I don't get what you're saying here

[shellyc]

It's the same reason I'd defend any friend in a game honestly, I have history with Dunn and I don't think anything he's done is worth incriminating, therefore if bad arguments come towards him I am willing to give my two cents

hmmm ok but weirdly fence-sitty

[shellyc]

yes its understandable

so you think nopoint isn't convinced about what he's putting forward and therefore is not from an uninformed pov
can you quote specific posts that lead you to this impression because i don't think acting in a consistent way is indicative of not being convinced?

[shellyc]

do you townread dunn then?

[shellyc]

Zzzz.. you trying not to death tunnel here shelly? Is that why you're not voting me?

Really did want an answer to this shellz

i have had a slow townplay style change (mentioned in multiple games) that I've been tunnelling less ever since boardgames mini normal

[shellyc]

Pointedly self-assured and unwilling to compromise for his own ideals

It's only scum when he breaks that mold in ways that give him thread brownie points

Can anyone back this up? Because I don't like the last part here

IMO I'm not thinking that hard into it yet, which is why I was like 'nothing interests me.' Trying to read into who has the informed POV right now when the game is again just starting and feels barren seems like just leading yourself into a trap

I usuallyread based on tone, then my logic follows that and I fill the spaces in-between. I think tonally Nopoint's aggression seemed misplaced

quote

specific

posts that lead you to think this?

johnny im like ever-so-slightly better on because i think effort is AI for johnny

[shellyc]

didnt mean to quote 160, i can back up the townplay part though

[shellyc]

so you dont like dunn AND the way nopoint is going after dunn?

hmmm

what are your townreads other than fuzzy?

[shellyc]

fuzzy is probtown.

this is (albeit surface-level) engagement that is not there in his scumgame

[shellyc]

VOTE: Flavour Leaf

[shellyc]

This feels like a town!andres game

I get an intentionally passive vibe from FL atm

[shellyc]

*pulls sword out*

weird pov if FL is town though. intentionally playing passive -> tries to start a fight *through passivity* -> ???

[shellyc]

idk how i feel about the response it seems overly calm

[shellyc]

unwnd, whats your take on FL?

there is a conspicuous gap in your earlygame reads in that FL is not brought up

[shellyc]

Are you just going to give up solving him or ...?

[shellyc]

I think the main reason why I dislike FL is the string of posting that lacked exciting takes and was quite passive

and the reaction to me voting FL/trying to start a wagon didn't sound very genuine and i'd expect a town!FL to show a stronger response to being nakedvoted

[shellyc]

hmmm

[shellyc]

idk what to make of FL redirecting pushes to a talk about his personality, maybe its true that reasoning with FL is going to be a struggle and NAI

[shellyc]

ok we can read your autobiography later. This is prob NAI, I don't think FL's "defense" is convincing enough to make me unvote at this stage

--
Also on a quick skim of 2174, nopoint!scum was talking in a very likeable/mellow tone. nopoint feels more blunt/unafraid to push here so far

[shellyc]

I've played with Shelly, but I don't remember where nor would I be able to say what type of player they are.

You didn't exactly play with me

You repped in the day after I got miskicked in Mini Normal boardgames

[shellyc]

FL would you say you're a person that enjoys being at the centre of attention?

[shellyc]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Lol VOTE: flavor leaf

I'm just gonna pretend I didn't see that for your own sake

Why would YOUR seeing it be something bad for his own sake?

This is town.

Why

[shellyc]

unwnd is scummy
FL is probtown
andres is town
fuzzy is town
nopoint might be scum
UNVOTE:

[shellyc]

VOTE: unwnd

i'll elaborate when im off work

[shellyc]

unwnd/nopoint contains >1 scum?

[shellyc]

passionate defense of dunn while putting him as "null" penultimately

weird shift of focus towards nopoint

a focus on how their points are confusing people rather than solving

anyways i think unwnd vs nopoint is TvS. i don't think the interaction is in very good faith but i don't think scum go against each other in such a blunt tone.

[shellyc]

FL goes up in my reads i think.

Johnny goes down.

Fuzzy goes further up.

I thinK FL talking himself up that much and making the game focused around himself rather than pushing agendas is from a non scum pov
johnnys unexplained andres vote is quite concerning. and i townlean andres because of previous meta and reasonable takes.
fuzzy seems to be posting much more than 2177 (scum) + actually making efforts to read

[shellyc]

You're townreading someone who has the audacity to fucking self-vote and then play it off like he was trying to initiate town's motivation

Do you think the audacity is scum!AI?

[shellyc]

Because I don't

"FL won a game openwolfin'" does not change that

FL has the capacity to openwolf but here I see it as being much less image-concerned and more spontaeous/rough

[shellyc]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Dunn I would like to hear from you re: this vote

[shellyc]

shelly is looking like she's trying to solve, but the way that she's doing it seems odd and commentary-ish. also, shelly I would like you to explain your Andres read.

in a skim of andres' scumgame, he seems to be passive

here the tone is more solvey and andres is putting in actual effort to do things which fits in with what I've seen of town!Him in the past

[shellyc]

i will reconsider dunn because i disliked the vote as well

I agree with the majority of that FL readslist fwiw

[shellyc]

I'll be productive after titus

You do realize this is straight up Scummy right?

i don't think its out of place, moreso a too scummy to be scum style

[shellyc]

JohnnyFarrar - I called it out when they jumped on me earlier, but I think this is town. The unvote after was interesting, but yeah. I also don't know if they make that comment Andres called out as scum. It's a weird comment to make as scum.

can you elaborate more on why you think johnny is town besides the comment because this is a slightly weird trajectory

[shellyc]

i do know that

I've read your "HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE" like, 3 times

I'll fight you one day unwnd, I'm just not quite motivated to case you rn

[shellyc]

unwnd/nopoint + johnny + dunn/geraint is my very rudimentary solve

[shellyc]

unwnd if you think passivity is a scumtell for me I recommend you open a random town!me game btw

[shellyc]

I have stuff ready to case you.

I scumread you.

I just can't bring myself to do it yet because in a fundamental level I still haven't found the motivation to effort here

[shellyc]

Yes.

Andres is town.

Unwnd is scum.

FL is town.

Fuzzy is town.

Johnny is scum.

[shellyc]

I can state the basis of any of my reads

[shellyc]

Ask specific questions and you will recieve specific answers

[shellyc]

I'll push you with *bullet points* (:

- passionate defense of dunn while putting him as "null" penultimately

- weird shift of focus towards nopoint, push not further developed

- a focus on how their points are confusing people rather than solving

- focus on how themselves are perceived vs. solving.

[shellyc]

its bad because its not explained and I townread andres

[shellyc]

titus is busy and inactive

you arent

[shellyc]

No, it is in you to make the first move

it feels like you're teaching mafia theory on how to push on this page

[shellyc]

unwnds interactions with FL are also pretty damning.

calling FL anti-town rather than scum.

avoidance on solving FL initially.

[shellyc]

Everytime Shelly posts, I feel like they're pocketing me now.

don't worry it's comfy

[shellyc]

I think you're overreacting to light pressure and you may be a type of player who wants to lecture but not vice-versa lol

i do very bad against pressure as either alignment.

I'm pretty sure andres can back that up.

anyways can you read my *bullet points* and respond if you like people pushing that way

[shellyc]

However, I will ask you why you are associating me+johnny+nopoint? That team just doesn't make sense at all. You'd have to think me/Nopoint are scum theatering and then Johnny is trying to seem disengaged while affronting a town-read on me based on style alone

i said its a very rudimentary solve because it doesn't quite work associatively

but I can totally see you/nopoint as a team. the lack of further engagement after the initial push is notable.

[shellyc]

there's a vote on nopoint but you quickly switch to FL once he does his eyecatching selfvote

[shellyc]

I don't even think I could call it scum theater frankly, Nopoint told me that my reasons didn't make sense and that was a bit of a blow to me personally cause I try my absolute hardest to make sure my points are clear and concise. I said it before a bit earlier and I'll say it again: I tend to bullshit a bit of my reads in order to garner reactions, creating heightened accusations in order to see what make people tick. The action itself of calling out Nopoint in that matter was much more important than anything else, and I got a reaction out of it which is what my intent was in the first place.

You just did the same thing (:

your vote was a "reaction vote"?

why do you care about how clear you are moreso than a lot of things?

do you scumread nopoint?

[shellyc]

You just did the same thing (:

wdym?

I voted FL before the selfvote etc

I then voted you. From a hypothetical town!you pov we are not scum theatreing

[shellyc]

this seems a really convoluted way of scumhunting in that you scumhunt by apparently making fake reads and finding reactions?

[shellyc]

What do you think looks more daunting for scum

1. A naked blank vote with no reasoning attached at all
2. An effective summary of why you are voting someone and then proceeding to do so

the naked vote

its fine to naked vote

[shellyc]

especially a naked vote on scum in which scum don't know why they were scumread

[shellyc]

do you, of this day, still scumread nopoint?

[shellyc]

I dont want to know your methodology of scumreading, I want to know what your actual takes are

[shellyc]

Dayvig: unwnd

[shellyc]

this does shit

you're dead, mod lock thread

[shellyc]

nopoint seems lurky which is what happened in 2174

I would like to hear from johnny on nopoint with johnny being nopoints scumpartner in that game

[shellyc]

i think the way you say "dislike" instead of scumreading is a bit hedgy though

these minor things

throughout this game i'd say you've been quite hedgy

[shellyc]

like unwnd does stuff - dislike/slight SR on nopoint, thinking FL is "anti-town"

there's a lack of trying to make those scumreads into real pushes

unwnd says "pressure" but I don't buy it and it sounds sorta reverse-pushing

so uh. unwnd whats your singular strongest SR here?

[shellyc]

idk i can see myself falling for my "scumread because of clashing play" fallacy

[shellyc]

johnny give me a shotgun d1 solve right here, I wanna hear some juicy stuff from you instead of mild takes

[shellyc]

geraint, are you a very vote-oriented player?

I don't completely disagree with what you said re: nopoint. I dislike the push on dunn and still slightly townlean dunn. There is still a lack of interaction/strong pushing between nopoint-unwnd though. Why are you unwilling to push nopoint hard given thread generally has support on scum!nopoint?

[shellyc]

pagetop

[shellyc]

andres do you townread FL?

whats your read on unwnd?

[shellyc]

VOTE: nopoint

[shellyc]

re: nopoint the scummy things about nopoint is narrative-y posts, trajectory of voting dunn -> voting FL, tone similar to mini normal 2174 on an iso dive (sorta appeasing/trying to seem likeable)

[shellyc]

Vote count 1.05

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-12-14 10:06:13).

elimination

1. Titus [0]:

2. Andresvmb [2]:

geraintm#33, JohnnyFarrar#232

3. unwnd [1]:

shellyc#292

4. Flavor Leaf [4]:

unwnd#339, Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

5. Hank Spankems [0]:

6. shellyc [0]:

7. PlusJOYED [0]:

8. Not_Mafia [2]:

Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365

9. JohnnyFarrar [0]:

10. geraintm [0]:

11. TheFuzzyLogic99 [0]:

12. Dunnstral [3]:

Flavor Leaf#381, Andresvmb#403, nopointinactingup#548

13. nopointinactingup [0]:

no elimination [0]:

Not Voting [1]:

TheFuzzyLogic99

mod notes

~ prodding JohnnyFarrar

Spoiler: vote log

Day 1 vote log

Post 5: Andresvmb votes shellyc
Post 6: Dunnstral votes geraintm
Post 7: shellyc votes Andresvmb
Post 10: PlusJOYED votes shellyc
Post 11: Dunnstral votes unvote
Post 13: unwnd votes TheFuzzyLogic99
Post 19: Not_Mafia votes Not_Mafia
Post 23: nopointinactingup votes Not_Mafia
Post 26: Titus votes nopointinactingup
Post 33: geraintm votes Andresvmb
Post 38: Flavor Leaf votes Not_Mafia
Post 69: Hank Spankems votes Not_Mafia
Post 75: shellyc votes unvote
Post 89: shellyc votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 94: nopointinactingup votes Dunnstral
Post 108: Flavor Leaf votes Dunnstral
Post 149: unwnd votes nopointinactingup
Post 157: Not_Mafia votes nopointinactingup
Post 172: Titus votes shellyc
Post 183: Andresvmb votes unvote
Post 185: shellyc votes Flavor Leaf
Post 186: Flavor Leaf votes Flavor Leaf
Post 228: Flavor Leaf votes unvote
Post 229: JohnnyFarrar votes Flavor Leaf
Post 232: JohnnyFarrar votes Andresvmb
Post 249: Andresvmb votes unwnd
Post 291: shellyc votes unvote
Post 292: shellyc votes unwnd
Post 293: nopointinactingup votes Flavor Leaf
Post 315: Flavor Leaf votes nopointinactingup
Post 339: unwnd votes Flavor Leaf
Post 343: Dunnstral votes Flavor Leaf
Post 359: PlusJOYED votes unvote
Post 365: PlusJOYED votes Not_Mafia
Post 381: Flavor Leaf votes Dunnstral
Post 403: Andresvmb votes Dunnstral
Post 503: Titus votes Flavor Leaf
Post 509: Not_Mafia votes Flavor Leaf
Post 548: nopointinactingup votes Dunnstral

I'll be active to guarantee a launch

I mostly dislike FL voters though. I don't scumread them exactly, but I dislike the votes and the timing of the votes

Fuzzy, andres, hank, FL I feel comfortable calling town for now.
nopoint, unwnd, johnny main PoE.
geraint seems to be analysing things which is slightly +town.
titus, dunn, N_M should contain scum due to wagonomics and lack of engagement.

[shellyc]

Shelly shading three people on the FL wagon is not a good look, particularly when she makes no effort to sort us.

that was deliberate

what is "effort" anyways, I'm a minimalist

[shellyc]

Plus shellyc's position makes no sense with where her vote currently is.

"My main PoE is unwnd, johnny, nopoint"

FL wagon isn't minimalist
define effort

[shellyc]

To elaborate on how i find titus/dunn/N_M scummy

titus' vote on FL was to "get momentum" despite a few wagons competing for momentum. titus did not explain why he picked the FL wagon.

1. Titus [0]:
2. Andresvmb [2]: geraintm#33, JohnnyFarrar#232
3. unwnd [1]: shellyc#292
4. Flavor Leaf [3]: nopointinactingup#293, unwnd#339, Dunnstral#343
5. Hank Spankems [0]:
6. shellyc [1]: Titus#172
7. PlusJOYED [0]:
8. Not_Mafia [2]: Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365
9. JohnnyFarrar [0]:
10. geraintm [0]:
11. TheFuzzyLogic99 [0]:
12. Dunnstral [2]: Flavor Leaf#381, Andresvmb#403
13. nopointinactingup [1]: Not_Mafia#157

this was the latest VC when titus posted his vote. it is clear that multiple players had 2-3 votes.

N_M quickly jumped onto the FL wagon bringing it to E-3 soon after titus had voted. the close proximity of these votes is out-of-place.

dunn voted FL for reasons basically voiced as a "policy" for "bad/scummy play". the bad part seems a bit like preparing for a town!FL flip and explaining "well he played bad"

which brings FL to E-2.

these votes which lack real conviction makes me really dislike this wagon.

[shellyc]

i wont compromise on FL

i agree with the sentiment that N_M is a "policy launch" and scum can easily jump on a town!N_M

i'd give titus a shot for further contributions tbh

I would launch dunn today. as well as {nopoint, johnny}

[shellyc]

i'd give titus a shot for further contributions tbh

to be clear I scumread titus aorn but its not a very strong read and I could be swayed.

[shellyc]

No we cannot flashwagon shelly

I am on call to finalise anything except FL, andres, geraint, hank, fuzzy

[shellyc]

Hank I'm not sure that you ever explained why

Shelly you are on the wrong track I think

what do you think is the right track

[shellyc]

VOTE: Johnny

if you think scum!me killed titus you'd be crazy

[shellyc]

fwiw i now sorta want to reverse my unwnd read

I feel like unwnd wants to strongarm the gamestate here

[shellyc]

which does not fit in with scum's modus operandi today

plus is town.

[shellyc]

nka all you like

should consider my usual scum play style though

[shellyc]

do you know how Johnny plays as town, nopoint?

[shellyc]

I was serious with that question btw

did you meta town Johnny?

--

I did skim your town game.

I noticed that the main difference was of the tone. Your 2174 was aimed to appease town and you came off as likeable. not unsimilar to here.

I mention the word lurking only once in this game:

nopoint seems lurky which is what happened in 2174

I would like to hear from johnny on nopoint with johnny being nopoints scumpartner in that game

which is not that I keep saying that you're lurking.

I did not read your town game at this point.

I wanted to hear from Johnny because he had firsthand experience with you and I couldn't find the scum pt in that game. reading scum PTs really help (PTs reveal approaches to scum and how spontaneous you are)

[shellyc]

I did not push a team of titus dunn N_M

I disliked their voted on the FL wagon

FL is likely town

can we take a huge look at johnny rn

nopoint/johnny/deepwolf

I can get behind hank. please replace him asap

[shellyc]

But her vote to end the day was on nopoint. That clearly demonstrates that Shellyc wasn’t eager to compromise and consolidate, which is Scummy behavior in context.

I scumread nopoint much more than the three combined

I did not know majority = no elim btw

[shellyc]

*no majority

Unwnd reading top poster = town is prob a town view of the gamestate

[shellyc]

1.04

Flavor Leaf

[3]: nopointinactingup#293, unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343

1.05

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Not_Mafia [2]:

Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365

Dunnstral

[3]:

Flavor Leaf#381,

Andresvmb#403, nopointinactingup#548

1.06

shellyc [3]: nopointinactingup#599,

Titus#638

, JohnnyFarrar#647

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Unwnd is scum by VCA. 1.04 to 1.05 no point looks like scum trying to get off the wagon that looks to be gaining, but the Not Mafia wagon likely has a scum on it, which does fit with my Plus theory.

Like even if someone thought I was scum, Unwnd is scum based on 1.05/1.06, where another scum is in the other 4, at least 1.

You can look at the unflipped here and see it's exactly how my reads list lined up which is what helped me get to the spot I was at.

hmmm

why cant you believe that your wagon was all town?

[shellyc]

certainly made sense with the titus kill

that scum are happy with the gamestate rn