Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!
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- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Hey Johnny. Yeah we’ve played... what is it, three times before? This would be the fourth if I’m not wrong. I lost 2 consecutive games as Town against Shelly Scum, and the third one she replaced out as Town (I was also Town). If I believed in policy executions, I would push for shellyc but that’s not my style. The entrance was simply an acknowledgement that Shelly knows what she’s doing as Scum.- Andresvmb
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Complete blank. I would be lying to you if I told you I had any sort of inclination there.In post 18, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Gotcha. Watching people interact with Shelly is always interesting. What do you make of Hank thus far?- Andresvmb
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Geraintm should we expect much of the same from you D1 that I’ve seen in the past? Though to be fair, last time you were actually onto something D1, so maybe don’t sell yourself short?
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84723In post 34, geraintm wrote:
Which game are you referring to?In post 24, Andresvmb wrote:Geraintm should we expect much of the same from you D1 that I’ve seen in the past? Though to be fair, last time you were actually onto something D1, so maybe don’t sell yourself short?
I am not expecting much more from me today than normal. Shall see after that....- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I’m not a newer player, and I try to be friendly as either alignment (at least to start). You’ll find plenty of games on my home site where I come in and greet people generally. It depends on my mood.In post 71, shellyc wrote:
i voted in my post EXACTLY before that so...?In post 15, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Why didn't you vote? Also explain?
it was a joke. but newer scum often greet the entire thread as an opening. (no offense andres)- Andresvmb
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Just out of curiosity, why do you think I’m a good push here?In post 238, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Automatic townie points to whoever votes Andre with me- Andresvmb
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I didn’t see anybody ask you, so I’ll do it: what differences do you see between Johnny’s game when you played with them as Scum and this game?In post 93, nopointinactingup wrote:
Sacrilege! don't mess with k-pop broIn post 36, Not_Mafia wrote:You could spend the time to find a better avatar
I was scum partner with Johnny on our last game and I can say that his behavior is so far very different but not sure if that's AI considering he knows I'm in this game.In post 39, unwnd wrote:If anyone is familiar with Johnny they should tell me if his behavior is indicative of anything
Right now his questions seem preemptive that gives me pause- Andresvmb
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VOTE: unwnd
I’ll place this here for now.
The explanation in my head is a bit whacky, but I’ve yet to be able to identify Scum D1 on this forum, so I am trying to think outside of the box. I think unwnd was taking too strong a stance in the Dunnstral v. Nopointinactingup dust up between 94 and 105, while leaving Dunn as a Null Read in 149. One way to interpret this could be of Scum that is eager to encourage a fight between two Town, while leaving the other player for a future push if they’re wrong. Outside of that, I don’t find unwnd’s posts particularly Scummy, so it’s a hard one.
Also, I think shellyc is asking the right questions so I’ll maintain my TR there.- Andresvmb
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I’m also inclined to think that nopointinactingup is likely Town based purely on the fact that nobody jumped to their defense really. Fuzzy piled on in 143 to defend Dunnstral, and most others ignored the interaction for the most part. Flavor Leaf decided it was more important to make things about himself, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. Will keep reading.- Andresvmb
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I don’t know what to make of Flavor here yet, but I expect Flavor’s intensity and analysis to pick up later this game. For now I’m null on the slot, but I will say that Flavor admitting that certain posts are performative, and generally not committing to any read doesn’t strike me as Scum!Flavor. Just food for thought.In post 187, shellyc wrote:This feels like a town!andres game
I get an intentionally passive vibe from FL atm- Andresvmb
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I literally wrote that I have them as Null. Did you miss that?In post 255, Dunnstral wrote:
This is a bad reason to townread themIn post 250, Andresvmb wrote:I’m also inclined to think that nopointinactingup is likely Town based purely on the fact that nobody jumped to their defense really. Fuzzy piled on in 143 to defend Dunnstral, and most others ignored the interaction for the most part. Flavor Leaf decided it was more important to make things about himself, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. Will keep reading.- Andresvmb
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Oops, I thought you were talking about my read of Flavor. Nvm, carry on.In post 257, Andresvmb wrote:
I literally wrote that I have them as Null. Did you miss that?In post 255, Dunnstral wrote:
This is a bad reason to townread themIn post 250, Andresvmb wrote:I’m also inclined to think that nopointinactingup is likely Town based purely on the fact that nobody jumped to their defense really. Fuzzy piled on in 143 to defend Dunnstral, and most others ignored the interaction for the most part. Flavor Leaf decided it was more important to make things about himself, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. Will keep reading.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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To be honest, I didn’t express an actual read. I simply pointed to how I was perceiving the game state given my admittedly whacky theory about unwnd. There’s a few other things I caught about unwnd if you don’t mind - like their stance on Flavor’s self vote. In my head, the posts around it seem to have been put forth for the sake of appearing Town. Flavor had what, two votes including their own at the time? Three at most? I’ve made the same specific argument but to a player I was TR’ing who was about to get executed (actually, it was the Mod funny enough). But to a player this early in the game with only a few votes? Particularly since it was obviously some sort of attempt to make something happen? I just thought it was a bit superfluous. Does anybody really believe that Flavor needs to be told that self-voting is not the best way to identify Scum?In post 260, Dunnstral wrote:I should have clarified but yes, I meant nopointinactingup
Anyway, I’m being nit-picky. Shellyc also posted that unwnd’s read on Dunn was a bit wishy washy. I agree. So maybe I’m not totally off-base?- Andresvmb
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It’s important that I say that because I want to be challenged on my reads. I am decent at figuring out what the Scum have been angling towards later in the game (I would argue it’s my greatest strength). But my ability to identify Scum early in the game is just not great. So take my views with a grain of salt.In post 261, unwnd wrote:In post 249, Andresvmb wrote:but I’ve yet to be able to identify Scum D1 on this forum,
I understand your reasons extrapolated in the rest of your post but I'm not sure why you included this in your thought process- Andresvmb
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Oh I’ve played with Flavor enough times to have a sense for the player that he is. But you know, Flavor is a far better Scum player than he is Town. It’s why they have a Scum guide and not a Town guide on their signature. So in a way, him not putting much effort into this game doesn’t immediately make the alarms in my head go off. If I spot anything I’ll put it out there, but for now, I’m not seeing Flavor Scum. Of course, Flavor doesn’t deserve to be TR after mostly talking about themselves. I was just saying - I mostly ignored the self-vote as a vanity play and moved on. I think you should too.In post 264, unwnd wrote:You're here and that's cool
Flavor knows better to self-vote, he's supposed to be experienced. If you want to argue if anyone was being superfluous it was Flavor, and frankly I'm not gonna sit and entertain and neither should you. Unfortunately, Flavor has a huge ego. I know you're not probably not aware of it but it is always bordering anti-town, and usually when I find myself in conversations with him they end up with me leaving them empty, at least in the aspect of how he treats the game. Right now Flavor has sat here and said 'i tried to get the game started' but like I predicted nobody nibbled and now I've been left with an empty thought on what it all meant, so feel free to give your perspective Anders- Andresvmb
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Yeah I agree Flavor needs to prove he’s Town. Of course. He has yet to do anything crazy though.In post 267, unwnd wrote:Giving players like Flavor no accountability allows to run amuck and do whatever the fuck he wants. I don't care if he's Don Corgi and I didn't care in the last game I played with him, his actions have to prove to me otherwise he's going to beneficial to town wincon- Andresvmb
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@unwnd, ah but my point was not that you were instigating an attack. I made a strategic observation about what you could be doing as Scum. IF (admittedly a decently big if, but I would lean positive on their aggressive attitudes) Dunn and nopoint are both Town, then what you did would make a lot of sense as Scum. You chose a side despite the fact that you don’t particularly TR one side of the argument (you claimed to have done it for a friend, but that just seems like a potential pocket attempt to me), which sets you well for the next few days. If the fight continues (say, because you believe Dunn is stubborn), and we end up in a situation where one of them flips, you get to hide behind the person actually driving the attack. It happens often enough around these parts that I simply had to point it out.- Andresvmb
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I didn’t directly address this. Fuzzy I don’t think you have to come out guns blazing to defend someone. You directly empathized with Dunnstral, no? You are indirectly saying in 143 that you’ve done as Town in a different game what nopoint is arguing is actually a Scum slip. Now, this isn’t to say that I don’t agree with your point. In fact, I do. I do the exact same thing as Town, where I plainly state that I think someone else is Town (in other words, it doesn’t necessitate a Scum perspective). I think your statement that you’ll keep an eye out for what’s to come is exactly what I intend to do.In post 252, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:
huh..how am I defending Dun...... I am confused as I did not attack or defend Dun but was trying clarify the motivation for their actions.In post 143, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:In post 136, nopointinactingup wrote:
There is a real fine line between making implied reads and subconsciously blurting out prior knowledge.In post 134, Dunnstral wrote:83 is an implied read, I'm not sure how you see it as a slip instead
yeah last game I said someone was in town..... I meant to make it sound like a town read . I am not sure if that what happening here but I think it something I need to keep my eyes on
Dunnstral - why do you think that Shlly is town as you gave zero indication why you have that read
@ FL- how can you tell. Doing a little more of nothing still gets you nothing. Anways Not Mafia is giving all indication of his town game. He did this last game as town and in the other game I saw where he is town.
We should prob sort FL and Titus. Both are good players and can be dangerous if they are scum. Just my humble opinion- Andresvmb
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@Flavor if you don’t intend to really play this game, then you shouldn’t be surprised that people want to see you out of it. However, I would prefer if you took some days off or something, and came back with some energy to try and solve this game. You are potentially giving cover for Scum to vote you and not face any consequences. And if you’re Scum, then sure keep acting this way and you will certainly be the target of an execution.- Andresvmb
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Real Scum slips in my experience are rare. Like obvious mistakes that truly reveal that you’re Scum just don’t happen all that often. Scum tend to be careful. If anything, what appear to be mistakes made by Scum can be simply differences in style or communication. We just came out of a game where a Town player was thought of being Scum for referring to themselves in the third person (and being coached into a post).In post 303, nopointinactingup wrote:I believed it then but no one else sees it so idk, they can’t all be scum
I think the evidence for a slip needs to be overwhelming, or the slip really obvious. Otherwise, it’s just not that.- Andresvmb
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+1In post 334, Flavor Leaf wrote:Also, Gera saying we wasted time when absolutely nobody was here is scummy.
I wish we had an active enough game where that was wasting time.
It looks like trying to find an excuse to jump on your wagon if you ask me.- Andresvmb
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Is off Scummy to you? Do you not buy the excuse that they might actually be burnt out?In post 353, Dunnstral wrote:Was thinking about voting either FL or nopoint, FL is acting off and we shouldn't let him downplay it
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Why are so happy to defend unwnd here? It can’t be that speaking in a spontaneous way is all you have to hang your hat on.In post 363, nopointinactingup wrote:unwnd is town, at least that's what I'm willing to bet on for now since with the spontaneous way he is speaking he will get found out soon if he was scum.
Johnny is looking worse so I'm going to have to take back that alliance request. I find the way johnny plays as scum is lurking and opportunism and I got a sense of it in his recent posts.
shelly is looking like she's trying to solve, but the way that she's doing it seems odd and commentary-ish. also, shelly I would like you to explain your Andres read.
I like fuzzy and vibing with a lot of what he's saying- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Look I’ll give you my download, and you tell me what you think.In post 376, nopointinactingup wrote:@Andres, what do you think of my point against FL?
Could Flavor’s self-vote “plan” have been disingenuous - an obvious attempt at making themselves look Scummy so that they can explain away their survival later in the game, without attracting too many votes? Yes, maybe. Flavor doesn’t seem that keen on giving out reads or establishing themselves in this game, so that’s not a positive sign. It’s also a marked departure from how they’ve played Scum the last few times we’ve faced each other though, and that in a way also makes sense (it would be easy for me or others to spot I think).
Where I’m struggling is when I try to make sense of it from a strategic perspective. Flavor seems fine under pressure as Scum, but he knows that he needs allies, or Town players that are in a position to make errors. The easiest way to get significant errors is by pocketing players, or at least have others actually think you’re Town. He doesn’t seem particularly focused on even projecting Towniness here, openly admitting to not trying hard, and inviting votes. Not the most viable Scum strategy long-term is it? The other side of it is that he’s buying time, but Flavor doesn’t like to sit on the sidelines for too long. If he continues to drag his feet for too long execute him. Otherwise, I think there’s better places to look for now.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Maybe you won’t jump on any wagons, but I still expect you to highlight stuff you see. You put the spotlight on two Scum players last time we played on D1 and were executed for it - I went back and checked. So don’t try and pretend that you can’t make any contributions because that’s not true.In post 378, geraintm wrote:
You've not played with me before? I will not be jumping onto any wagons.In post 372, Andresvmb wrote:
+1In post 334, Flavor Leaf wrote:Also, Gera saying we wasted time when absolutely nobody was here is scummy.
I wish we had an active enough game where that was wasting time.
It looks like trying to find an excuse to jump on your wagon if you ask me.
And as people are still discussing them, I stand by my statement that a bunch of days have been wasted.- Andresvmb
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Just for fun I’ll make a comment about this. You know how I can tell that you’re a better Scum player than Town? Even if we haven’t played that much together? Because having bad reads in a game does not get you executed. People expect the performance and the arrogance. But they don’t seem to be waiting around for you to guide the Town (as Town). It’s why people remember you as a dangerous Scum player above anything else.In post 281, Flavor Leaf wrote:When you get far past enough knowing not to self vote, you reach an area where it starts to be okay again.
Noting that I only have 2 completed games with Andres, and both of them I was scum, one off site, so that’s an interesting thing to comment on my town game that I’m slightly FoSing.
It doesn’t mean you’re bad Town btw. I just think it’s obvious where your strengths are.- Andresvmb
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I think I’m the obnoxious Town player type too - just not too abrasive. I tend to over complicate things though. And I have my moments but overall I know I have a lot of room for growth. But that’s for after game.
Talk to me about shellyc. I think solving shellyc really helps this game. Because I see her as Town, I do. A lot of early takes, and most eminently reasonable (and ones I largely agree with). However, I find myself worried about getting pocketed. What do you think?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Good to know about Hank, will keep in mind.In post 393, Flavor Leaf wrote:I think I have 6-7 strong town performances this year, where I have like 4 or 5 strong scum performances this year.
It's all about what have you done lately, though, and my scum game is being highlighted right now because of specific games that finished recently.
Hank is a newer player, Andres. Him and I joined the game after that last newbie, so it might be a bit overwhelming, or he might be busy, which is why I'm willing to give it a little bit, especially considering everyone is having issues with what to do this game.- Andresvmb
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You do realize this is straight up Scummy right?In post 384, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I'll be productive after titus- Andresvmb
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I ISO’ed there, and I can see what you’re saying. They have one read out (shellyc), and most everything else from them is related to being pushed by nopoint, including their interaction with me trying to discredit nopoint.In post 398, Flavor Leaf wrote:I actually do think Dunnstral is the most likely to be scum right now
I called him out earlier, and I didn't like his response, and then he joined my wagon in what could have been a momentum swinging situation.
I’ll join you there for now, since unwnd is not attracting much attention just yet.
VOTE: Dunnstral- Andresvmb
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I don’t know why Scum would say that there, but I’m hoping for some more juicy takes from you is all. You’re just openly slacking and it’s bothering me in a game that clearly needs people to spring into action.In post 399, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Why would scum say that just there? I'm curious. (I also haven't read since like page 10)- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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Yeah that’s what I’ve seen from you, is true. Look I don’t know what your alignment is, but provided I don’t get overly Scummy vibes from you (and I haven’t), I think bouncing my thoughts off of you is helpful.In post 406, Flavor Leaf wrote:Also, you were saying I don't run games as town, but I specifically run games as scum (one because it helps) because I have a tendency to powertown.
I prefer playing troll town, then popping out of nowhere late game and solving, but I never get to do that anymore.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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This actually made me laugh. It’s really great shade.In post 410, JohnnyFarrar wrote:So at the tail end of page 11 is this impenetrable conversation between andres and unwnd that I just can't read into at all. Every time I try I end up putting my phone down.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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I’ll say this - I have seen shellyc reveal themselves as Scum under pressure, but not to the point where I thought it was completely obvious (in that newbie game we played). I think you enjoy directing the game, without having to endure too much suspicion. That’s where you probably do best (as either alignment). The one time we played as Town both of us you left the game completely under some pressure. I don’t know if that was directly attributable to the pressure or you were just bored - you would have to clarify.In post 452, shellyc wrote:
i do very bad against pressure as either alignment.In post 449, unwnd wrote:I think you're overreacting to light pressure and you may be a type of player who wants to lecture but not vice-versa lol
I'm pretty sure andres can back that up.
anyways can you read my *bullet points* and respond if you like people pushing that way- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I really don’t see this solve so I’m very intrigued by it. You have a completely null slot in Hank, Not_Mafia (who I will grant you could be Scum, very difficult to tell for me this early), and nopoint? Huh.In post 488, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Main 3 (Nopoint notmaf Hank) with flavor and you as distraction or potential scum if i'm wrong about one in main 3- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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So you basically think that the Scum have for the most part very little active presence and are letting the Town just cannibalize themselves, yeah?In post 492, Andresvmb wrote:
I really don’t see this solve so I’m very intrigued by it. You have a completely null slot in Hank, Not_Mafia (who I will grant you could be Scum, very difficult to tell for me this early), and nopoint? Huh.In post 488, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Main 3 (Nopoint notmaf Hank) with flavor and you as distraction or potential scum if i'm wrong about one in main 3- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Titus I might understand the context behind this, but do you have any reasoning you want to share for the vote?
- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Titus I might understand the context behind this, but do you have any reasoning you want to share for the vote?
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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@Titus I’m also still waiting on this.In post 278, Andresvmb wrote:@Titus, can you walk me through your vote on shellyc? I’m trying to figure out if there’s anything I’m missing.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Clearly not everybody on the Flavor wagon is Scum. There’s something fascinating about nopoint + Dunn + unwnd all agreeing that this vote makes sense based on how the beginning of the day played out. Titus has been largely absent so I don’t really read too much into that vote to be totally honest (it could be Scum piling on, particularly if Flavor is Town, but it could easily be Town that is going through the motions too), and Not_Mafia will do their thing (I’m not getting the same positive vibes as last game so I don’t know if Not_Mafia is Town, but the reputation is there for a reason). So what’s going on?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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You should wait.In post 519, Flavor Leaf wrote:Everyone's vote on me is essentially naked "he scummy"
F-2, should I claim?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Claiming to still be treating the game as if it were in RVS when you’re pushing the top wagon closer to execution and there’s this many pages of content seems rather difficult to believe wouldn’t you agree? If you haven’t read, why would you put such a dangerous vote down? I’m struggling to understand the logic here.In post 518, Titus wrote:
No. I am still in RVS. I haven't read at all and want to get wagons going. Since rationing my meds, my reads have gotten worse too so I am letting others lead.In post 505, Andresvmb wrote:Titus I might understand the context behind this, but do you have any reasoning you want to share for the vote?
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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@Titus I think you’re being somewhat unfair in your response. I would note that you hadn’t really clarified the why you hadn’t read but decided to vote anyway until your last post. I don’t question people’s real life motivations/excuses. That’s a dangerous road to go down and I assume that people play in good faith unless it’s shown otherwise (and convincingly so). You will note that your vote has been followed by a quasi-naked vote from Not_Mafia, and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of activity even though Flavor is E-2. Your vote also clearly makes Flavor the leading vote getter, instead of making it look more spread out. I didn’t mean dangerous in the sense that Flavor could get randomly executed, but rather that it creates a strong sense of momentum.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I think you should consider moving to a wagon that has a higher chance of success. Though I believe that your push for Not_Mafia is genuine, I can’t see it happening today just yet.In post 529, PlusJOYED wrote:anyone else wanna join the notmafia wagon?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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I don’t understand this post at all. Where has anyone uttered a TR of Flavor based on the fact that he wouldn’t “play this way as Scum”? Can you point me to it? Because off the top of my head, I don’t recall anyone really making that argument.In post 530, Dunnstral wrote:I think we need to stop townreading flavor for mysterious 'he wouldn't play like this' reasons and hold him to a higher standard, that means elimming him when his play is bad/scummy
I don't trust anyone's read on him that has him as town at this point in time
What specifically about his play has been Scummy to you? Outside of him obviously SR’ing you, how do you think his approach is not from a Town POV?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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In post 349, shellyc wrote:
Do you think the audacity is scum!AI?In post 338, unwnd wrote:You're townreading someone who has the audacity to fucking self-vote and then play it off like he was trying to initiate town's motivation
@Dunnstral, the closest anyone has gotten to potentially aligning with what you’re saying from skimming through a few ISOs would be this. And even then, this isn’t really focused on what Flavor would do as Scum, but it looks to me more of a theoretical point about how Town don’t seem to care about how they come across, and want to solve the game, and how what Flavor was doing up to that point fit that idea. I can keep looking, but I think your post is more of an attempt at discouraging people from TR’ing Flavor more generally, and using it as an excuse to SR anybody that defends Flavor.In post 350, shellyc wrote:Because I don't
"FL won a game openwolfin'" does not change that
FL has the capacity to openwolf but here I see it as being much less image-concerned and more spontaeous/rough
Look I’m fine with being wrong. Flavor is hard to sort. But I haven’t really seen anything particularly convincing. - Andresvmb
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