Mini Theme 2182 - Legends of the Hidden Temple III - Over!

[VP Baltar]

Yoooo

[VP Baltar]

Has anyone played previous iterations of Hidden Temple?

[VP Baltar]

Imagine thinking a parrot is cool

[VP Baltar]

I WILL MURDER YOU

[VP Baltar]

Can't wait for my partner to arrive to find I've already challenged someone

[VP Baltar]

I read the OP.

my question is why tf would u challenge someone on page one and also did vp even challenge anyone? I don't see the bolded text?

I kid, I kid. No challenges issued

[VP Baltar]

UT, is Reck scum?

[VP Baltar]

What is your team Pookey?

[VP Baltar]

AHAHAHAHAHA THE FUCKING IGUANAS

[VP Baltar]

sneak peak of Team Dragon annihilating Team Monkey

*Iguana

[VP Baltar]

Reck, how long do you think it will take you to figure out if UT is scum?

[VP Baltar]

Reck is scum
Change my mind

I'm listening

[VP Baltar]

gamma lets fight these monkeys they're laughing at us and throwing bananas and shit

Gamma, come get ya boy

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: pooky

You're either scum or a gigantic liability

[VP Baltar]

Lol I literally don't know your alignment. What do you want me to say?

[VP Baltar]

But what I said remains true. Either way, yeeting you is protown

[VP Baltar]

Pooky just gave D1 to the scum if he's town. I can't even say I've assessed my own partner's alignment.

YEET TO THE SUN

[VP Baltar]

Dragons don't fear fire

*Iguana

[VP Baltar]

mod: can we get how many to eliminate in the votecount as well? Thanks!

[VP Baltar]

After this challenge ends someone should challenge the Red Jaguars
I think they’re both scum

How are you coming to that conclusion?

[VP Baltar]

Lilith feels like she’s promoting TTvTT conflict

Your partner started a challenge on like page 3....

[VP Baltar]

Okay but that’s direct initiation
Lilith is like an announcer for a WWE fight, she not in the ring getting bloody

You can't honestly believe this

[VP Baltar]

“Scum or liability” is the lazy/bad way to read Pooky

What is the correct take on it?

[VP Baltar]

My method of reading him boils down to, in simple terms: if he looks like he knows what he’s doing, he’s scum, if he doesn’t he’s town

That seems exceptionally easy to fake, but ok...


My viewpoint is basically Pooky calling a challenge immediately is a pro-scum move. Doesn't mean he is scum necessarily, but scum will benefit. No matter who gets yeeted today, people tomorrow can say "well, Pooky called it so early, what else could be done?" There won't be any responsibility for actions, which is going to make the day a wash later when we have some flips and we are trying to do analysis.

We can try to make the best of it and press on people, but it is now what it is.

My gut reads at this point are:

Pooky is a fucking idiot who I want dead regardless because he can just pull a similar action D2, and then what do people say?

Noraa - I don't have scum vibes yet. We made a deal in our PT to trust each other for now and reassess as needed. I'm ok with that deal for a day and I'm not gonna be convinced to yeet Noraa unless there is something truly compelling there.

Gamma - I don't love the untethered speculating, but I'm trying to determine how much is Gamma and how much is his proximity to Pooky. People get influenced by neighbor groups, and my reservation on his scummy behavior is that Pooky is encouraging lolcat mentality. I think gamma saying lilith is scummy for a single RVS post is pretty scummy, given gamma granted Pooky's actions a free pass -- even encouragement -- but yeah...

[VP Baltar]

I’m back and forth between reading VPBs knee jerk as frustrated town or TMI scum

Go on...

[VP Baltar]

I mean, the sad thing is my gut thinks pooky could be this dumb as town. I really had no read on him when he challenged. And now my entire ability to read him has been colored.

[VP Baltar]

@VPB: What's your opinion on meta?

I would say I use it as a general outline if I know a player well? But it's often on an intuitive level I can't really explain well. Like, "hmm, reck feels strange this game." I find it hard to really articulate an argument for alignment based strictly on meta, because any halfway decent player is going to change things up a bit from game to game.

So tl;dr -- I'm not antimeta per se, but I'd rarely use it as my main reason for reading someone.

[VP Baltar]

That being said, considering you were one of the people who got snowed very hard by noraa last game we played (where me/Haschel/noraa were scum), I was curious if you had any insights into her from that perspective. Not so much "is she scum or town based on meta" but moreso looking for a peek into noraa the player bc my only experience with her so far was on a scumteam together

I mean, it was more I talked myself out of noraa scum there than anything. When I looked back in that game, I was initially like "Noraa is scum if Reck flips red"

I think I'm obviously more aware of Noraa's ability to hide intentions as scum. I think what was more obvious in that particular situation was her AtEs were complete bullshit.

In terms of what I'm applying to our PT interaction, I think it's too early. Noraa feels town to me at this point. She is being consistent in her PT reads and what she is saying in thread.

[VP Baltar]

Hi, UT! How will you know if Reck is scum this game?

Reck, I asked you a similar question, but I think you missed it.

[VP Baltar]

I would like to request y'all don't hammer me while I'm offline
I want the chance to read everything I can before I die

You're at like E-5.

[VP Baltar]

If you know you're town, wouldn't it obviously be better to yeet one of us or pooky?

Also, if pooky is scum, this isn't a terrible play. Here is what I said to noraa:

"It'd be kind of a smart scum strategy if you have the reputation as a wild card. I'd probably do it immediately at the start of day 2 as well. As long as you keep roping townies in, you have up to a 75% chance of a misyeet each day until town lims you. That's an insane advantage to scum."

[VP Baltar]

There's also the very possible reality there are 4 town here, and what do we even learn from that. It could be we need to force people outside the challenge group to drive the conversation. At least then you maybe get some content that is usable later in the game.

[VP Baltar]

yeah
but any wagon needs at least 3 outsiders of the group under debate (4 if anyone that isn't me rn)
So there's likely to be a good amount of opinions expressed by people outside the challenge

I guess what I mean is forcing that number higher through non-participation. Idk, just trying to spitball ideas to make the best of a shit sandwich here.

[VP Baltar]

Baltar can't call me scum

I don't even understand what this is supposed to mean?

You initiated a challenge on page 3. You think I should have had a solid read on you at that point?

If I had strong feelings about your alignment, I'd say so.

[VP Baltar]

People making "alliances, trust deals, fake bullshit" in their PTs need to be BURNED IMMEDIATELY.

It was Noraa's pitch, fyi

[VP Baltar]

Posting in the PT that I think you're an idiot rn.

[VP Baltar]

You're very emotional, pooky. You ok?

[VP Baltar]

One is slightly offensive. The other hurts people's pride.

Fwiw, I don't care. I don't take self worth out of wins and losses on internet forum games. Pooky can talk shit all he wants.

And I did call him an idiot because it was an idiot play to challenge on page 3. I'm sure in RL he is a very nice person.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I'm ribbing you for a bad play. If your feelings were actually hurt by that, I apologize.

[VP Baltar]

we get to engage in hand to hand combat instead of allowing the scum to mold whatever narrative they want.

I guess Im just annoyed because what am I supposed to fight you about?

I didn't remember there are no NKs in this game, so that does change it a bit and makes your play slightly less bad. But still, I don't think it was a good play to force it that fast with no information. Forcing scummy players into the challenge is optimal.

[VP Baltar]

In addition he's ignoring me, and I've not really been towny myself.

Huh? Where am I ignoring you?

[VP Baltar]

I mean you're ignoring the possibility I might be scum seemingly

Nope, been talking about it a lot with noraa actually

[VP Baltar]

I don't care how pooky wants to use your PT. I'm treating it like a neighborhood and he can whine all he wants about that.

[VP Baltar]

can you at least say what you've discussed (on your end at least) about my chances of being scum?

Sure, standby and I'll go get the quotes

[VP Baltar]

Here is what I've said about you gamma. Most of it is about your weird lilith take.

Noraa has said she thinks pooky is town, and I can see that perspective. I said:

"I want to policy pooky because he's fucking dumb, but gamma is being way more scummy"

We kept talking it through. Noraa was worried she was gonna get yeeted because she eats a lot of D1 yeets. I said I think we should fight to make it one of you and she again expressed her town read of pooky. I said:

"Yeah, that's the annoying part. He could be town here and then it's a complete day 1 waste. That's why I said he gave D1 to scum.

"Gamma's "counter wagon" post did give me a weird scum ping though?"

[VP Baltar]

Noraa has said more about gamma scum, but I'm not going to post her messages

[VP Baltar]

non-existent spam

I agree with your general point that complaining about spam is unhelpful, but it certainly exists in this game....you did call the last five pages bullshit (which I mostly agree with).

Can you explain the difference ?

[VP Baltar]

He probably didn't realize the type of picture he was painting.

You really believe that?

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: gamma

The lilith reaching was bad, but at least it was early stage stuff that could be town if you squint enough. Trying to frame Noraa & I talking in the PT about the game as me pulling one over on her is actively scummy (not to mention, demeaning to Noraa.)

Second, if I was scum, I wouldn't be transparent with you at all. You're not exactly in control of the game gamma, nor would I be worried about you if I was scum.

I love how pooky claims a) I'm terrible at mafia because I lost a single game to Noraa, and b) I'm also masterminding control over Noraa because she is a poor helpless little girl.

Gamma sheeping that nonsense is scummy.

[VP Baltar]

Yes, I would certainly like to hear from other people

[VP Baltar]

dont pocket her more in your PT

me and gamma will not be discussing any game relevant stuff in ours

I'm going to talk about the game in the PT.

ALL. DAMN. GAME.

[VP Baltar]

@VPB what's with the insistence on trying to get Reck/UT to parse each other in particular?

After playing mafiaSunny, I feel like they might struggle to read each other because they are good friends (for those not there: UT caught reck that game through a night action, but struggled to believe it). I think it's pretty important for each team to figure out if their partner is scum. I think you can operate on good faith your partner is town, but we should all be vigilant for scummy behavior. Because they're buddies, I wanted to hear how they plan to be actively assessing each other.

[VP Baltar]

I also think they are both good at scum, so want to poke there early.

[VP Baltar]

What is the Baltar scum case

I didn't praise Pooky calling a challenge on page 3. That's the gist

[VP Baltar]

this feels like a bit of a reach. have you seen that kind of influence happen before?

Maybe it's me, but I feel like I often respond to the people I'm playing in game with, let alone if I shared a PT.

As an example, when I play with ABR, I'm definitely more open to fast and loose day ones because I like him and it's fun to play into that energy. It's not my usual style, but his presence can influence how I play.

[VP Baltar]

this feels like a bit of a reach. have you seen that kind of influence happen before?

Maybe it's me, but I feel like I often respond to the people I'm playing in game with, let alone if I shared a PT.

As an example, when I play with ABR, I'm definitely more open to fast and loose day ones because I like him and it's fun to play into that energy. It's not my usual style, but his presence can influence how I play.

I also feel like gamma's energy and approach to this game has been more wild and loose. Doesn't feel like other games I've played with him, but his partner is like that

[VP Baltar]

fuck ICE

+1

I'm sorry about your friend.

Ok...back to my posting sabbatical

[VP Baltar]

Can we not with the whole "the 4 who are eligible for yeeting are dipping out of the thread" thing? Again, y'all can be present and interact and, y'know, help us figure out who's where without just shitting up the thread.

I'm mostly kidding. I do think other people should talk more because the activity overview is .... Something.

I'm around and will answer questions/give views as I think is necessary. But I want to hear more.

Here is a new take from me: I think Reck might be scum here. Tinfoil hat says he knows too much about gamma's alignment.

I'm also getting AGar town vibes based on his annoyance level.

-pedit: what gamma said

[VP Baltar]

There is something extremely unsettling about the fact that nearly everything Starbuck has said, someone else has already said.

I disagree. Let Starbuck catch up.

[VP Baltar]

Oh? Off the drunk note to self or something more?

That and him town reading UT almost immediately after saying he doesn't have any good criteria to assess that. I'd be more skeptical in his shoes.

I'd be open to hearing in more detail from UT and Reck why specifically they are townreading each other. Like what was said that triggered that?

I just don't see the connection between AGar and gamma either. Notsci said he agreed with Reck, so he is welcome to elaborate as well.

[VP Baltar]

in the PT UT was like "how does it feel to be town together finally" and i was like "yep this is true 100% facts"

i can't explain it past that, i just know

That's some serious intuition...


Also, feel better

[VP Baltar]

im glad to see baltar posting and not honoring about our agreement - confirms my view that he's a lying treacherous snake demon

Yuh mutha is a snake demon. Eyyyyyyy

[VP Baltar]

I also think his trusting of noraa is how scum wants to play it-

Do you think Noraa is scum?

Also, I have things to say about this line of attack on me, but I'll wait until pooky is back since he originated it.

[VP Baltar]

control the narrative

WeeeeeWoooooo

Red alert

[VP Baltar]

no I think you are playing how scum would play this

Yeah, I don't know what that means.

What am I doing exactly? Because I agreed with Noraa to give her some space to prove her towniness? I fail to see the scum motivation

[VP Baltar]

He's saying he's stopping YOU from controlling the narrative

how is that sketchy

Controlling narrative is exactly how I think as scum. I don't give a care what the "narrative" is as town.

[VP Baltar]

I think VP is trying to maintain an “all town hood” facade after it was proposed and it bothers me.

Where did I do this?

[VP Baltar]

We made a deal in our PT to trust each other for now and reassess as needed. I'm ok with that deal for a day and I'm not gonna be convinced to yeet Noraa unless there is something truly compelling there.

For reference, here is what I actually said about the deal noraa proposed.

"I'm ok with that deal for a day"

You chucklefucks misrepping it like I gave Noraa a free pass forever so she'd be "naive" and never scum read me (which reads extremely misogynistic to me) can just stop.

[VP Baltar]

why are you even making a deal for a day to trust each other

Because I think starting a neighborhood on trust carries an expectation that Noraa is transparent with me. If she fails to deliver on that transparency, which she proposed, then I will be able to easily see scum motivation. Scum can't keep up the charade indefinitely, and the more she talks, the more I can assess her alignment.

Agreeing to a day of openness is hugely beneficial for me to read her (and I'm assuming that was her intent as well).

[VP Baltar]

This challenge thing is really frustrating me because I feel like it's making it hard to scumhunt outside the given pool

Remember when I said this was dumb?

[VP Baltar]

why would you think its better for Noraa to post her thoughts in a PT where only you can see it rather than in the public thread where all of us can see it and evaluate it?

First, she's not just posting her thoughts in the PT though. No one has said that's the case. Second, I think I have a greater responsibility -- and frankly ability given the PT -- to assess Noraa's alignment compared to the rest of the town.

If this is back to your point that no one should use PTs to talk about the game with their partners, I don't agree with your premise.

Do you honestly think we are the only two players talking about the game in our PT? If no, do you think that's scum indicative for those other players?

[VP Baltar]

If you're pocketing me reck, it's working.

How about this: how many people who are not in the challenge are using their PTs to talk about the game?

Unrelated question: if Pooky hadn't challenged, which two teams would you send into a challenge rn?

[VP Baltar]

Bulge has been busy so it hasn’t been much discussion

Ok, but will you use it or do you agree with pooky that any use of pt is anti-town?

[VP Baltar]

Like obviously I did it for the memes cuz Baltar was making fun of my team being iguanas

but like looking back now he is pretty shady and I think he probly does flip scum here.

No, you're trying to justify your stupid play after the fact. Of the four people you have forced into a challenge, the person who has been the most actively scummy is gamma, but I don't see you talking much about that. You're mad because I called your play for what it was: dumb and anti-town.

Regarding the PTs: I'm not going to keep arguing this with you pooky. I don't agree with the points you've made about why it is anti-town, my position on PT use is clearly in the majority, and I don't care if you don't like it.

You stating a "case" on PT use policy doesn't help us find scum. You're going to keep saying the same things to justify your bad read on me because you're in a shit tunnel, and I'm not going to participate in that. If you want to talk about actual play, or really anything other than what I do with the PT I'm a part of, I'm listening.

[VP Baltar]

If we come to a point where it's suddenly obvious Noraa or VPB is scum and we can't get the other to vote to yeet because of a dumb deal, we'll burn that bridge then.

I agree with this as a policy. If Noraa's obvscumming, you can believe I'll be yeeting her to the sun.

[VP Baltar]

Like obviously I did it for the memes cuz Baltar was making fun of my team being iguanas

Did you come into the game planning to issue a challenge in the early pages regardless?

[VP Baltar]

@UT - when you and Reck were scum in that Hidden Temples game, what was your strategy broadly and how did it play out in the game?

[VP Baltar]

I think I probably would’ve challenged noraa/vp

Why?

What are your thoughts on gamma?

[VP Baltar]

I also think (at this point) that y'all are spending more time defending talking in the PT than actually discussing the game. Why not bring those conversations and original thoughts to the rest of the town? I think Gamma and Pooky are right in calling you out on this and both of y'all's defensiveness about it is disappointing.

This is a pretty BS point. Pooky is the person who repeatedly brings up the PT. I'm not being defensive by trying to answer his questions.

Further, I've raised many lines of questioning outside of that, so you're incorrect to say I'm not bringing original lines of thought. Pooky, and to a lesser degree notscience, are the ones repeatedly asking me to defend PT use, which is dumb. Why are you framing it as myself being the driver of that when I'm clearly not?

[VP Baltar]

Oh VPB, this Gamma case in 395. You talk about Gamma speaking about you and Noraa hiding away in the PT, but what about Pooky who originally brought that subject to the table in the first place? If Gamma is scummy for it, is Pooky? Why vote Gamma and not Pooky?

Because at least pooky was presenting it as an original idea. I think his point was bad (which I explained why later), but I can see town motivation in trying to pressure. Gamma however is just repeating it without thinking about the validity of what is being said, presumably because he thinks it's an easy way to score points on me. That's actively scummy behavior. As is trying to say lilith is scum over an RVS comment. As is the woe is me self voting. Etc

[VP Baltar]

I think its more suspicious that Noraa literally just tricked VP baltar in a game and proposes a trust deal to baltar in her PT and Baltar just instantly takes it with no paranoia of Noraa at all.

That's not the only game I've played with noraa. I can't discuss the other because it's ongoing.

I've explained my reasoning for the deal from my perspective, which I don't think you acknowledged at all. Are you saying I'm lying about that?

[VP Baltar]

I'm saying your reaction to Noraa proposing a trust deal to you is suspicious given that she literally just snowed you for a scumwin.

Your framing of that game is inaccurate, but anyhow...

My point is, what makes you think I haven't improved my ability to read noraa now that I've had more experience playing with her? Further, I stated how I see it as advantageous to my ability to assess her alignment.

You keep saying she's the victim here, but also I'm getting snowed and duped by her or whatever. You see how this argument is illogical, right?

[VP Baltar]

Like obviously I did it for the memes cuz Baltar was making fun of my team being iguanas

Did you come into the game planning to issue a challenge in the early pages regardless?

^please answer this

[VP Baltar]

UT's answer to my question was very town.

[VP Baltar]

if you help me yeet baltar and he flips red i will let you challenge cakez tomm

Lol and I'm the scum making deals. Cool fucking story

[VP Baltar]

Pooky, what's your take on gamma?

[VP Baltar]

hes probly green cuz u want to yeet him

Anyhow, let's move ahead with this phase. It's been a gigantic waste brought to you by pooky.

Under no circumstances should he be allowed to challenge for the rest of the game. If it's me today, that's fine and it will reinforce my point that town needs to get rid of pooky asap to have a shot at winning.

People should start voting so we can move this challenge to a conclusion and real challenges can begin.

[VP Baltar]

I’m done with this day phase someone just tell me when we need a hammer.

Why are you not just voting?

[VP Baltar]

I’m done with this day phase someone just tell me when we need a hammer.

Why are you not just voting?

It’s more fun to hammer

Respect. Who are you willing to hammer?

[VP Baltar]

You can do what you want, Gamma. But this game day was a waste.

Agrees with me, calls me scum.

*Thinking face*

Are noraa and I both scum in your eyes?

[VP Baltar]

No I was told I wasn’t giving Noraa enough credit, so I downgraded you as my first choice to you or her having scum in it.

Ah got you.

[VP Baltar]

But this game day was a waste.

I don’t like this mindset, but you tried at least. Unlike SOMEONE.

Who is SOMEONE?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP Baltar
Prefer this lim.

If it is me, you have to say in thread in the next phase that Pooky is an idiot

[VP Baltar]

Gamma has too many SRs and almost all of that readlist just looks like my reads that have been scattered around this game grouped together and then tweaked to sound more gamma-y.

No no. I don't think this is town gamma.

VOTE: Gamma

I want to hear baltar's opinion on this post right now

Scummy to say you'd yeet everyone basically

[VP Baltar]

VP was actually answering your question, saying it was scummy of noraa to leave everyone else in the pool open as a yeet candidate. Maybe

I'm

getting it wrong but that's the vibe I got.

That is the right interpretation. I'm saying that was pretty scummy for noraa to say

[VP Baltar]

Noraa is being weirdly combative. Idgi

[VP Baltar]

right now he's saying it's scummy but he's still voting for gamma? that's kind of weird?

Ill answer this one since it's the most current, but this also gets at lillith's question.

So last night after noraa posted that, I asked her in the PT to explain because I wanted to give her a chance to talk it out without the pressure of the full game coming down.

I asked essentially "why did you make that post?"

She said initially it was kind of a shit post she didn't think through, but then added some defense of it.

I said, it seems pretty scummy to say you'd be willing to yeet anyone in the lim pool who isn't you. And she then said she didn't care, that's how she felt and that she didn't trust me.

That's why I posted last night that she was being weirdly defensive.

I didn't really have scum vibes from Noraa's posts before this, but I'd be willing to yeet her now. To immediately turn a private chance to explain your actions without judgement into a super defensive attack doesn't feel like a town mindset to me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: noraa

Re: gamma - I still don't have a town read on him and I'm slightly worried noraa is flailing and it is helping take pressure off a scum, but her actions are super weird here.

[VP Baltar]

Did this all happen before or after 666?

Before. It is what led me to post that in the thread.

[VP Baltar]

I also couldn’t find posts explaining a scumread on gamma

Really? I talked about scummy things I saw from him a few times, even if it wasnt formatted as a case per se

[VP Baltar]

The summation is basically:

1) I thought his push on your RVS comment was BS.

2) His self vote reeked of trying to relieve pressure through AtE.

3) He has agreed Pooky's takes in a pretty blanket way without providing any critical review or original insight about those positions.

[VP Baltar]

I get that, and that's my concern here. I just really don't get being defensive toward me when I was just asking for your thought process without it being an attack. I also don't get saying "hey I would like to have a transparent neighborhood, let's try to trust each other as much as possible" and then saying you'll yeet me when I've been 100% transparent.

-pedit @noraa above

[VP Baltar]

Lol fml.

Noraa, why are you going off? This is really not helpful if you're town

[VP Baltar]

Then suddenly out of nowhere a shit case pops up and my first thought was "Did VP tell him i was an easy target?"

I haven't been entirely transparent in the pt bc I don't trust u entirely and I feel like that's reasonable and you can't expect full transparency.

You understand how bonkers that sounds, right?

And as town, yes I expect transparency in my neighborhood. Scum can't be transparent because they'll get caught. I know I have nothing to hide and I'm totally fine being transparent.

If I was scum, why would I need UT to do my dirty work? I could push for your yeet very easily, and it would have made my own game pretty simple after the challenge.

You're being extremely paranoid if you're town and it's not helpful.

(On the plus side Pooky, you've ruined our marriage and we aren't talking in the PT Team monkey needs counseling!)

[VP Baltar]

I get that is frustrating. Part of me does think this is your town play. ARGGGHHHHHH.

what I'm saying is that this is not helping my own feelings toward you, let alone what others think.

I want transparency because this how trust and town blocs get built. If I feel like I can trust you, I'll ride or die. Saying I'm scum because of se paranoid crap is the opposite of trust!

[VP Baltar]

Well I don't trust anyone so there won't be full transparency from me.

That's a super detrimental attitude to the town win con. Games are won on trust that leads to PoE.

[VP Baltar]

Great so now I think there are possibly two town liabilities in this lim pool.

[VP Baltar]

can i autochallene again if noraa flips red?

If noraa flips red, I'd give you town cred for sure

[VP Baltar]

I agree on notsci being scum most likely. I don't agree so much on cakez

[VP Baltar]

But Cakez gives a sorta lhf wrong-place-wrong-time vibe as town, and it's not present here

So are you saying you see Cakez scum or not? I can't tell from your post

[VP Baltar]

I agree on notsci being scum most likely. I don't agree so much on cakez

why?

Notsci seems to be cruising for path of least resistance yeet today. Remember when I said scum would use Pooky's insta-challenge as a way to take no responsibility for their actions today? Notsci is like the epitomy of that. He said he's willing to hammer anyone. I also feel like he's not trying to solve. I don't have a case at the moment because I tend to just keep impressions of each player in my head, and then later if I feel super strongly someone is scum, I'll re-iso them to see if their posting matches up with the impression I have or not. More often than not, I get bad feelings about someone for a good reason.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

VP, do you really think I’d make my tactic as scum to be “let’s do exactly what people are saying scum would do?”

Lmao

Yes you're TSTBS for suuuure

[VP Baltar]

wow that's crazy

too bad he's not on the table today and the flip today will affect your read of him on later days huh

I don't understand your point here? Like I shouldn't try to scumhunt outside the lim pool? I can do both things at the same time.

I'm not particularly happy with the lim pool really. It could just be three townies playing crap games and me here. So not a lot of great choices.

Pooky made a dumb shit play and is now trying to justify that play by tunneling me to the point of being illogical.

Gamma repeats pooky and then is like "vP nOt DoInG lEgWoRk!!!!" Even as Ive done 50 times the actual scumhunting he's put into the game with half the amount of posts.

And Noraa is doing her AtE shit that is barely readable because it's nonsense based on defensiveness and she does it as both scum and town.

I need to do some scumhunting outside that pool just to keep my sanity here.

[VP Baltar]

Apologies for the mood. I've had a week at work and I'm not into people being dumb right now. I'll try to keep my general annoyance out of the game. Not trying to make things toxic here.

[VP Baltar]

Oh now that's just a fucking lie. HOw is what I'm doing NOT SCUMHUNTING, HUH?!?!??!?!?

Well I'm your top suspect for dubious reasons and I know my alignment. You're not doing well here.

[VP Baltar]

How is "he's not legitimately sorting Noraa, just jumping to an alignment" a dubious reason? Everything before that I could see that for, though I feel like my reasons get stronger the further along into that paragraph you go.

Because I am legit sorting Noraa. You're not making a good point. My stance around noraa is very clear in this very thread. I just said her AtE is NAI, so how am I not trying to sort her?

The problem is noraa could be scum. I do think it is legit scummy to say I'd yeet anyone in this pool.

As much as I'm annoyed at pooky, at this point I think he is the least scummy person in the pool besides me. It'd be a total PL.

Like as shitty as the situation is, you still have to try to sort. That's what I didn't like about Noraa's play. She has played with me as town before and I've been nothing but transparent with her. Now she is trying to flip the script and say I'm scummy because UT made a case on her? Like wtf? I'm scum if anyone else in the game attacks her? That's incoherent.

She could be bad town here, but why is that a reason to keep her from my perspective? Additionally, if she's just gonna auto challenge tomorrow, that's another liability.

[VP Baltar]

I don't see how you can legit look at how I've used the PT with Noraa and relayed info into the game and then say I'm not legit trying to sort her. That's just such an obviously bad take.

[VP Baltar]

Maybe it’s a group of four town and pooky is a honorary member of scum

This is a legit possibility in my mind, and then it becomes a utility play. I hate it, and I don't think I'm being irrational about that.

[VP Baltar]

I listed two points where you jumped to a conclusion about Noraa's play. early on, you decided to trust her, despite her fooling you in MafiaSunny (which btw, you haven't given which Pooky is reading the events of that game wrong), which I can kinda pass off, and then there's recently where you saw Noraa acting weird and seemed to jump to it being scummy, without minimal sorting at best from what I can tell. If you've been sorting her for real, it's been in the PT where I can't see it, so in that case you're making pooky's point for him about what to use the PT for.

I'll circle back later today and address this. Need to run for a few hours.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

Thinking

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: pooky
if we're not doing VP then I guess I'll do this.

I don't live this post

[VP Baltar]

*love

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

Thinking

I feel like this is basically a scum claim but idk.

I'll leave my vote here for now.

VOTE: VP

Scum claim how?

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

Thinking

why

I want to consider if this is 4 town, what I think the utility vote is here. I think we are pretty close to making a decision.

Also, I think it is weird and possibly scummy that Gamma un votes me for Pooky because he doesn't think there is enough vote support for my wagon. Like why unvote if you think I'm scum?

[VP Baltar]

Noraa, you want to answer why my unvote is a scum claim to you?

[VP Baltar]

I want to consider if this is 4 town

I did. it is not very likely.

It's a fairly random chance given pooky made the play with no real info.

You're my strongest townread though, so I'm listening. Why do you think it is unlikely? You just have that strong of a scum read?

[VP Baltar]

the probability from my POV knowing my role PM is green is

(7/11)(6/10)(5/9) = 21%

the probability from a outsider POV holding a green role PM is:

(7/11)(6/10)(5/9)(4/8) = 10.5%

Right, so you can at least understand how from my perspective, it wasn't an amazing play when a little more info could have raised confidence.

[VP Baltar]

Or are you saying those are the odds of all the pool being town?

[VP Baltar]

21% is the odds of all 4 being town from my POV knowing I am a townie

10.5% is the odds of all 4 being town from a outsider POV holding a green role pm.

it's funny as hell notsci thinks we're in the 1/10 scenario in which all 4 of us are town.

Cuz if you believe that then the game is already won, we elim one of us, notsci+3 survivors = 4 player townblock, just elim every1 else and you win.

he's probably scum trying to excuse a shit push on me based on "policy" and being lazy.

Ok. I'm not great at math and statistics, so maybe I've just had a bad thought process all along. I guess if this was your thought process from the start, that was sort of why I asked you if you had planned this move before the game began.

[VP Baltar]

I listed two points where you jumped to a conclusion about Noraa's play. early on, you decided to trust her, despite her fooling you in MafiaSunny (which btw, you haven't given which Pooky is reading the events of that game wrong), which I can kinda pass off, and then there's recently where you saw Noraa acting weird and seemed to jump to it being scummy, without minimal sorting at best from what I can tell. If you've been sorting her for real, it's been in the PT where I can't see it, so in that case you're making pooky's point for him about what to use the PT for.

I'll circle back later today and address this. Need to run for a few hours.

I was hoping to get on a computer today, but that seems unlikely, so I'll answer this as best I can from my phone.

Regarding the second half of your statement about why I called noraa scummy there, I think I've explained that pretty thoroughly.

Re: mafiaSunny - I don't think I got "snowed" by noraa that game. Iirc, even before reck flipped scum that game, I said if reck was scum, I thought noraa was too. I unfortunately got distracted by some other scummy behavior the next day and didn't have good follow through. Then in Xylo, I had a lot of pressure on me to get it right because I was confirmed town. I correctly hit Haschel scum in the second to last day without a lot of help from the other town players (ythan, you and ~oldmanbrainIcantremember~). So the finally Xylo day, I felt I again wasn't getting a ton of help solving. Ythan was himself and pretty laid back. Noraa was talking and AtEing everywhere (which I didn't know then was what she always does), and you were pretty dejected and just assumed I wanted you no matter what.

Ultimately, I made a bad pick in what was not a great Xylo situation. Def not my finest moment, but getting snowed? Nah. To me that'd be straight up town blocking noraa, which just wasn't the case.

[VP Baltar]

You did call Noraa town for her effort, despite it being NAI and it being clear in post-game that was something she had to really push herself to do.

She played a good game and put in a ton of effort. I misread based upon that effort level.

[VP Baltar]

Gamma, why switch to Pooky because you think my yeet is unlikely?

[VP Baltar]

Notscience was someone I was counting as a number but he hasn't been on you in a while, so I'm not confident at all I can sway the needed people given that

Still, I'd expect you to have the conviction? You don't necessarily have to be on the final wagon, right? I doubt you'll be the swing vote.


@reck - the game isn't that long, c'mon man

[VP Baltar]

VP, why aren't you voting?

I keep going back and forth in my head about who is scummier between noraa and gamma.

[VP Baltar]

would u like to talk about it

Yes, definitely.

So with Noraa, I'm pretty bugged out by the way she acted toward me in the PT and the inconsistencies about her read on me. At the same time, she has seemed very sensitive to the possibility of being the D1 yeet ... which could be scummy, or could be her just being very annoyed town who is overreacting. I think the hard thing with noraa is she is like 80% AtE all the time, so who the hell knows what is real and what is game with that.

On Gamma, I've expressed previously why I thought he was scummy. His big ass post did give me some pause. It felt like he was genuinely trying to work through things, and his conclusion was I'm the best yeet today. Ok, fine. But then he votes pooky because he doesn't think he can get the votes on me? That's kind of weird from my perspective. I wouldn't think pooky is any more likely than me today, if I'm just trying to broadly read the game state. So, he is saying he has such a strong town read on noraa that Pooky and I are essentially equitable outcomes, and he'll support whoever is more likely? Idk, the whole thing feels kind of like contrived reasoning.

My gut says gamma is more scummy overall, but if we do have a four town situation, I think Noraa is less utility because I don't read Cakez as scum at all right now and she seems keyed up to auto challenge him.

[VP Baltar]

My gut says gamma is more scummy overall, but if we do have a four town situation, I think Noraa is less utility because I don't read Cakez as scum at all right now and she seems keyed up to auto challenge him.

Kinda rude for u to say that. ur basically just justifying a vote on me as a Pl and *assuming* all 4 are town.

Ur like gamma is scummier but Noraa is more negative utility to town. Hence justifying ur vote on both largest wagons of the day.

Maybe I can see
Vp/Notsci/Cake/__

You understand how silly this post is, right?

I mean, you're saying I'm justifying my vote when you literally said you'd yeet anyone who isn't you, nbd.

This is why I'm saying if you're town, you're pretty low utility. I tried to work with you and you came up with a harebrained theory that I'm scum because of that. It's not a town mentality. I honestly feel bad if you eat a lot of D1 yeets, but if this is your town play....what do you expect to happen?

[VP Baltar]

has the conversation completely broken down? I thought you were super duper PT best friends

Yeah, not talking in PT. I'd still be open to it, but noraa went off on me last time I tried when I asked her to explain her every yeet is good statement. I don't think it's on me to spark up the convo again.

[VP Baltar]

so what your issue boils down to here is that Gamma made an effort post, then made a utilitarian vote? idgi. that tracks, for me.

Eh, it wasn't like it was that or gamma died. I don't understand townreading noraa over pooky here. Unless there is something more in the PT that is tripping him up.

[VP Baltar]

I don't understand townreading noraa over pooky here

*gestures vaguely in the direction of the concept that people tend to like people who act like they do*

Haha, no comment.


Do you feel gamma is town here?

[VP Baltar]

I'm going to try to reread some of mafiaSunny today after I get se stuff done and see if noraa got this combative as scum around the time reck flipped

Reck, would love your insight here since you shared a scum team with noraa

[VP Baltar]

dunno what else you except from someone with a 3 month join date but if ur solution is just "PL all newbies", ur the silly one.

First, you've played many games, so spare me the I'm a newbie crap.

Second, that isn't my policy at all. In fact, I probably give newer players too much benefit of the doubt, aka me letting stuff slide for you in mafiaSunny

[VP Baltar]

Of the four, I find Gamma's sustained behavior most likely to come from scum

okay but I don't think it's gonna happen

isn't it wild how some of the people actually up for yeeting today want us to spend all of our time talking about people we can't yeet, our reads on whom will depend on today's flip?

really make u think

Why isn't gamma going to happen?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: noraa

[VP Baltar]

Have you played with Starbuck before? If no, then why are you even trying to meta her?

[VP Baltar]

I'd rather not go down this road, as it seems a toxic swamp.

It was a bad point by noraa, we don't need to fight over it. I actually appreciate Starbuck giving input on what she can, even if she's a little behind at times. Feels pretty town to me that she's at least putting in the effort.

Compared to reck just griping about posting, there's a stark difference. (Fwiw, I'm willing to give reck a chance here to really get in the game, but I do expect that after this phase.)

[VP Baltar]

And maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't recall Reck making such a stink about posting in Revelations...which was a fucking shit show when my buddy Aero was going mad libs. I think we had like 65 page D1 very quickly or something in that game.

[VP Baltar]

Compared to reck just griping about posting, there's a stark difference. (Fwiw, I'm willing to give reck a chance here to really get in the game, but I do expect that after this phase.)

I mean people are hyperposting making it a chore to actually keep up and nobody seems to want to yeet Pooky for his blatantly anti-town autochallenge so I'm just sitting here like "alright then I'll just float on I guess"

So you're saying the difference between how you are dealing with this spam fest vs. Revelations is that no one is listening to you about Pooky?

[VP Baltar]

Compared to reck just griping about posting, there's a stark difference. (Fwiw, I'm willing to give reck a chance here to really get in the game, but I do expect that after this phase.)

I mean people are hyperposting making it a chore to actually keep up and nobody seems to want to yeet Pooky for his blatantly anti-town autochallenge so I'm just sitting here like "alright then I'll just float on I guess"

So you're saying the difference between how you are dealing with this spam fest vs. Revelations is that no one is listening to you about Pooky?

what is revelations

VI's large.

Am I misremembering? I thought you were in that game.

[VP Baltar]

lol i forgot that happened. was that seriously recently.

BIG COVID ENERGY

[VP Baltar]

I'll gladly be your pearl forming grit.

I guess what I'm saying isn't meta related so much as general response. Revelations was way more fucking annoying and fast paced than this game. I was annoyed and my team was benefiting from it. Idk, people can certainly have different reax to the same or similar circumstances. It just seems overly aggressive this game in a way that I'm not completely convinced is genuine. Maybe I'm wrong.

[VP Baltar]

@UT- Noraa and VP reads are based off their handling of the hood. I think Noraa is being Naive and it’s being exploited by VP.

@gamma

[VP Baltar]

Okay. So someone wanna tell me why I’VE caught a ration of shit for thinking like that while that’s gone unanswered for? I don’t think “notscience can’t be limmed today” is a valid excuse rn

I think starbuck and I have both said it's a bad mentality.

I've said notscience is likely scum (not really for that though.) I don't think there's really a disparity in how I've looked at either of your slots.

[VP Baltar]

This game day is fucking tedious and there's no new information to glean.

Co-sign. Vote already.

[VP Baltar]

@VPB The shift in 953 & 955 is throwing me a bit of a loop - care to help me out here? 953 seems to insinuate you would like a Gamma yeet but the vote 2 posts later obviously strays in a different direction.

I think I've been relatively clear I find them scummy for different reasons. However, I think Noraa is probably lower utility to town if she is town.

I'm not opposed to a gamma yeet today if that's where town decides to go, but I think Noraa is probably a better play today. I also pretty strongly town read UT, so I trust his instincts since he is more removed from the situation myself

[VP Baltar]

979 Narrator: He did, in fact, misremember

Really? Well ok, scratch that then. Sorry, reck.

[VP Baltar]

if that's the case, then taking a break would be good and healthy for you

Agree with this. Breaks are fine and normal.

[VP Baltar]

The noraa townflip is a bummer, but not unexpected.

Reck, we now have an opportunity for a less surprise challenge, who do you want to see in the challenge arena.

[VP Baltar]

Looking at the on/off composition of the wagon, I personally think the Red Jaguars and Purple Parrots might be the best combination to actually hit scum.

[VP Baltar]

I’m still happy to challenge today and would prefer agars pair.

And you think AGar is sc. What about Starbuck?

[VP Baltar]

And your reads on Cakez/lillith is double green?

[VP Baltar]

I think they’re both sus but I’m more confident in agr and bulge.

Interesting.

Anything PT related on Bulge we should know about?

[VP Baltar]

if VP disappears here now that he's off the hot seat it will look pretty bad

I posted...

*Checks notes*

... yesterday.

[VP Baltar]

Also, why say that about me, but not pooky, who I don't think has even posted any content this phase?

[VP Baltar]

My read shifted hard on him towards the end of yesterday. I wouldn't mind seeing he and Pooky up again.

I'd take a detailed explanation of this. Your read shifted hard, how and why? Before or after the noraa flip? Sounds like before.

[VP Baltar]

i regret voting noraa

I don't see the point of saying this.

Why?

[VP Baltar]

notice the key word "if"

Today is "saying things that don't need to be said" day or what?

Why would you think I'm going to disappear?

[VP Baltar]

I have a very firm belief antitown actions are more commonly done by town as scum is more self concious about it. Given pookys chalenge was antitown as all fuck, I think he’s likely town.

This is kind of a silly statement that sounds good on paper, but really makes no sense. Anti-town play is literally the definition of playing to your wincon as scum. Every action scum takes is anti-town, some are just more overt than others.

[VP Baltar]

If your point is that sometimes town do scummy things, I don't think anyone disagrees with you. Scum also do scummy things, and it is silly to hand out free passes to people based on that. There are other reasons to call pooky town from yesterday and still engage in the day. That's my point.

[VP Baltar]

AGar, you already say today who you think should be in the challenge arena?

[VP Baltar]

I'd be up for a lillith yeet honestly. Her entire presence in his game is forgettable, and my sense is she is a good player.

[VP Baltar]

Nah, but I've also been operating under the assumption that one of Cakez/Notty is gonna challenge me. I'd prefer Notty or GE in the arena to tango with.

We all have control over this.

[VP Baltar]

What do you think of lillith Agar?

[VP Baltar]

Good challenge is good.

I'd like to hear from each of the four about who should be yeeted and the bullet point case supporting that.

[VP Baltar]

Cakez, hit me with that speed reader AGar case.

[VP Baltar]

agar is my first choice from the pool, I still think his noraa read was very unnatural

That is your full reason for suspecting him?

[VP Baltar]

I disagree that lillith's content is good or that she is some LHF, and presumably she can't have both things....

[VP Baltar]

UT, elaborate why lillith is easy as compared to other people in the pool?

[VP Baltar]

do you think lilith is not an easy push at this point?

I'm not seeing some broad consensus toward lillith, so no. AGar seems like the easiest push/most suspected of this group.

[VP Baltar]

...it’s talking about agars push. He’s not going to push himself.

What?

[VP Baltar]

From agars POV if he’s town the easiest push in that pool is probably Lilith.

We’re talking about agars push being easy and then people were qualifying if Lilith is an easy push, then you were like “Lilith isn’t an easy push agars the easy push”

But we’re talking about agars push in the first place.

That's fucking stupid. Are you being real right now?

[VP Baltar]

You’re talking about UT questioning Agars easy push are you not?

That was not my interpretation of what he said, but if that is true, it is an incredibly lame point to make. Not do I think it is even true necessarily.

[VP Baltar]

Cakez has been working on his case, we’ll get it about the time the vaccine is available to the general public

Lol


Anyhow, if you can't remember anything lillith has done, isn't that more scum indicative than anything? That's my entire problem with her.

[VP Baltar]

agar is my first choice from the pool, I still think his noraa read was very unnatural

That is your full reason for suspecting him?

you asked for a bullet point case, that was my one sentence TLDR. Do I think other things he’s said/done have also been scummy? yeah, but writing a full-blown thing would take more brain energy than I have. I can attempt it at some point but I ended up not being able to take vacation this week/worked over the weekend, so not a super priority for me since agar seems to be getting pushed plenty already.

VOTE: lillith

You seem to make a lot of excuses. I asked for simple bullet points, you provided one weak ass reason and then say anything more than that is a "full blown thing."

I think you've had an entire game to contribute something substantial, and you're completely background. I believe you that work is busy, but there is a point where it just comes across as a lack of motivation because no one is forcing you to contribute: a scum mentality

[VP Baltar]

Bravo! Brava! The Tony is in the bag.

Huh?

[VP Baltar]

I don’t like vp’s response to this conversation with notsci. not sure exactly what about it feels off but I almost feel like his intention was never to actually engage on whether agar pushing me was easy (which it is, because I think I have the lowest number of posts out of the remaining 3) but rather just to make UT look bad

Actually sitting at a computer doing rereading this morning and I just want to reiterate how bad this post is. "VP laughed at a funny joke notsci made and I don't like it. Also, I'm an easy push because I don't post much. WAAH."

Also, how exactly am I making UT look bad? I read his post one way, notsci read it another. Is UT someone who needs your whiteknighting or are you just trying to pocket?


I still think lillith is very obviously skirting around the edges of the game. Just ISOed her, and she had approximately zero thoughts or interactions with Starbuck or notsci on D1. She very briefly questioned AGar over his noraa read (which proved to be correct, so....) and then starts D2 with an agar vote with extremely flimsy reasons. No effort to try and sort the other slots at all, and she seems more interested in trying to shade me than actually solve within the lim pool today. That's an overdefensive mindset indicative of scum. I'm literally the only person voting her and she calls it OMGUS, which makes no sense when I was the one talking about limming her first.

Is it coincidence that you vote me only after I said something bad about you what’s the difference between me and agar, who’s also talked about reasons for not being in thread and who has fewer posts than me? Do you think he’s “contributed something substantial”?

Also, why did you say that I’m supposed to be a “good” player? We’ve had 0 games together, and your PT partner also had 0 prior games with me. Where does that impression of me come from?

VP's first mention of being good with a lillith yeet: 1169

lillith's first mention of VP at all on D2: 1244

re: AGar's contribution - he's done more than you, yes.

re: "good player" - I've seen people mention your name before (though bless me idk where), and I like Cakez, so there is probably some trust by association there that he would want to play with good people. Are you not good at mafia?

Why do you think he’s pushing me then, if it’s not because I’m the easiest of the remaining pool?

The number of times lillith makes this point after UT says it is fucking astounding. It wasn't even her idea, but she latches onto it like it's lolcatz in 2002.

VOTE: agar

La da la da.

You've been awfully quiet today. I'd take your thoughts on all four slots Pooky.

Update I am no longer confident in my bulge scumread and think he might be town

Can you explain why you scum read him and what changed?



Ok, going to ISO Cakez, Starbuck and AGar next to make sure I'm not overlooking something obvious.

[VP Baltar]

Finished ISOing AGar.

I'm really not getting the suspicion on him. He's logically consistent throughout his play, he's pushing in a lot of different directions on D1 and he questions his own reads at various points. AGar and Starbuck are two people I probably have the most experience playing with back in the day. I also played with both of them since my return in Mafia Revelations. I said this to Noraa in our PT, but I was watching both of them closely at the start of this game to see if they easily accepted me as town or not. I said that because I was scum in Revelations and they both gave me too easy of a pass because we all like each other.

AGar does not do that this game. He asks me a few tough questions to try and suss out my motivations during the great PT debacle. It's not a grilling, but they read like very genuine skepticism and poking to see what my alignment is. AGar also genuinely expresses frustration at things I'd expect him to get annoyed with as town, such as shitspamming the thread. That's certainly something that could be faked, but I don't see the scum motivation to stop that from happening D1. AGar's efforts certainly read more genuine than Reck on that front, where the latter griped about it but didn't actively do anything to stop it from happening. AGar actually engaged with gamma during that, and opposed Pooky's idea of the limpool not talking D1.

That all reads fairly town to me....which is probably why I'm asking repeatedly to get an actual case on AGar and no one is providing it.

[VP Baltar]

i still think you're scum

you're pushing lilith so I am going for Agar.

I can't believe UT said you're good at this game.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, finished ISOing Starbuck.

I can see why some of her catch up posting is labeled as IIoA, but that seems to be the minority in her posting. As I stated above about AGar, I was watching to closely to see how much shit Starbuck would give me D1, and she delivered. She pressed me on a few things and took Pooky's side in the PT debate. There's maybe a little bit of a lack in broadly questioning the game state from Starbuck, but life is way harder when you're working all the time.

My biggest gripe with Starbuck is that she's pretty soft on Reck for reasons that I don't understand, but that's possibly more likely to come from town!Starbuck (ie, the same way she was soft on scum!VP in Revelations).


My takeaway is Starbuck is probably town here as well.

(Also, I've twice read through the PT debate again now, and I just want you motherfuckers to know that I was right to take the deal and try to figure out Noraa's alignment, even if I had to help yeet her in the end because of her self-destructive play.)

[VP Baltar]

and opposed Pooky's idea of the limpool not talking D1.

lol what a mis-rep

I said we take a 48 hour break to let the thread breathe because some people in the game were complaining we were posting too much and drowning out the thread.

yes, I was being hyperbolic. It's more fun that way.

[VP Baltar]

Finished ISOing Cakez.

I'm back and forth on him. Like, D1 I was agreeing with many of his points and I think he came off town for trying to deescalate with noraa going HAM on him about some incoherent meta argument. I don't know Cakez well enough to speak to any type of meta discussion, but he was definitely saying town things when he was discouraging people from reading noraa's AtE as scum motivated. Much like AGar's attempts to pull back shit posting without discouraging discussion, that's a town thing to do from Cakez. If I was scum in his situation, I'd just let her rope herself with that kind of posting.

D2 gives me slightly more pause from Cakez unfortunately. I still don't understand his AGar vote, though he promised a case. I don't think he had much interaction with AGar on D1 (though he did say he was scum with Gamma), so it felt a bit like a weird focus on D2? IDK, I do think him challenging is maybe slightly town indicative still at the early point in the game, though I think scum will get more bold about initiating challenges as the game goes on and they try to shape the game state favorably. I guess overall my sense after D1 was that Cakez was pretty hard scum reading Gamma, so maybe I expected him to challenge Pooky/Gamma again to seal the deal there.

I'd put Cakez in the null pile with some town pings in there.

[VP Baltar]

If I'm ranking yeet preferences, it's probably something like:

1) Lillith
2) Cakez
3) AGar/Starbuck

Not sure who I'd take out of the Blue Barracudas if I absolutely had to pick there.

[VP Baltar]

UT, elaborate why lillith is easy as compared to other people in the pool?

[VP Baltar]

Just ISOed her, and she had approximately zero thoughts or interactions with Starbuck or notsci on D1.

*correction here: That "notsci" should say "Cakez".

Got that CobraKai on the brain I guess.

[VP Baltar]

but where is his scumhunting? I'm seeing so many empty questions and fluffy posting that's not really motivated by town imo

That's not really what I saw. He was pressing me, gamma and Noraa at various times. I wouldn't say he was a town leader or anything, but I wouldn't call it fluff either.

I'm open to hearing a persuasive AGar case, but that's on you or someone else on his wagon to provide.

[VP Baltar]

I think after final reads from Lilith I’m fine if y’all wanna lim her
She seemed promising before but hasn’t put up quite as I’d hoped

What had you hoped, and what changed your mind on lillith?

[VP Baltar]

I hoped she’d continue showing real insight into things
Now she just feels reactive

Did she show insight before?

[VP Baltar]

I felt like she did

What specifically though?

[VP Baltar]

don't like this unvote

Me either, but maybe we dislike it for different reasons? What's yours?

[VP Baltar]

your reasoning sounds made up
in what world is this a quickhammer? we've been discussing for a while now and the game is stagnant

It is a holiday week. I'd expect the game to slow down. I also don't see the need to rush a hammer when there are several people we should hear more from

[VP Baltar]

i can't shake the feeling it's gamma

If lillith flips red, it is absolutely gamma.

[VP Baltar]

Which btw, it’s hilarious you suggest that VP when if Agar is town there’s little benefit to unvoting besides towncred

Your reasons for suspecting lillith are flimsy, which is why I was pressing you to explain the change of heart when very little had happened.

And didn't someone already say the optimal scum strategy in this setup is to bus early and cruise on town cred?

Anyhow, I'm just calling it like I see it!