Yellowstone

[Infinity 324]

I read up to page 20 while waiting to be replaced and here's what I wrote so far. I'll finish explaining and reading tomorrow.

{mark, jv}
{guillotina}
{DGB, nono, horse}
{agp, toog, flea}
{llama}
{noraa, marangal}

Mark and JV are being their usual obvtown selves.

Guillotina has a lot of towny conviction and initiative, and he looks like he's really trying to sort horse. I'd be impressed if he's scum.

DGB is a lean town mostly because I've agreed with most of its takes and it has a towny tone. It does seem to have reads decently close to consensus (with the exception of horse) and is generally very comfortable in this game, so could see it being scum who is happy with how things are going.

The way horse got frustrated with guillo's push on her read quite towny to me, and she seemed happy to provide reads when asked about it to get away from the stupid "hi I'm new" conversation, whereas scum wouldn't be as eager to provide reads.

Take the noraa read with a grain of salt because I can't really read her, but her posts have felt a bit LAMIST-y and she doesn't have the laid-back approach or flashes of insight I expect from town!her. Also unfortunately, it doesn't feel like she's enjoying this game as much as she usually does and I know she likes town more than scum.

[Infinity 324]

Hi noraa! I'm definitely open to being wrong about you so I'll keep my eyes open ig.

Also momrangal used to be ms. marangal who I played with a couple times in the past I think

[Infinity 324]

*crosses my arms*
*does a staring contest with infinity*
*wins*
*runs off to get a cookie*

If you can declare yourself to be the winner of a staring contest, I can declare your role pm to be red!

How are you feeling about horse, regardless of anyone else's opinions? Was there a specific argument to SR her that was convincing or did you just doubt youself.

[Infinity 324]

I think your read on Nora is off though

Why?

Its to my understanding that Nora is a cutesy overly excited kind of player... Like a puppy but in this game it doesn't seem over the top, and it feels like there's a level of focus and seriousness there. It's almost like she needs to actually some thinking in the game, and not make plays to redirect town votes, and plays, and cause havic.

There is something happening to cause this subtle shift in play at a subconscious level and it's that thing at that level that gives me my read on her

This post pings me. I get it if she's using other players as analogy, but noraa definitely does "get down to business" as either alignment. The reason why I think it might be scummy is that mara is approaching this personality-read with a lot of confidence for someone who doesn't know noraa, so I'm wondering if she misevaluated how much confidence town would have in this situation.

VOTE: mom

[Infinity 324]

This is a decent argument for why momrangal might be wrong, but not why she's scummy.

Scum try to project confidence to make it look like they believe in their reads, and I find that they often do it in situations where town wouldn't because they misevaluate how they would feel as town. Town only projects confidence when they really feel it, but scum has to keep up a veneer if that makes sense.

[Infinity 324]

535 is kinda one of the flashes of insight I talked about for noraa. She TRed me for a similar reason in a different game, but it was better articulated there. Hmm.

[Infinity 324]

Although I hate the way you worded this, I like this read but I'm not sure if it comes from scum wanting to get out of a pickle or Town actively reading them.

JV said it better than me.

[Infinity 324]

Sometimes the reason a wagon gets pushback is cause the player starts acting town.

[Infinity 324]

How would it affect your noraa read if I told you that she definitely focuses/plays serious as scum?

That reminds me,
@guillo: How would it affect your read on mark if I told you he got limmed d1 in his only scum game on site?

[Infinity 324]

Hi math! It's been a while

[Infinity 324]

Srs tho, I'm a second counter wagon taking off

Mason claim is a joke

[Infinity 324]

She said she was a mason

Then she said "seriously though, ..."

[Infinity 324]

If the mason claim is a joke (which I really doubt) it’s a town joke not a scum one.

Is she more laid back as town/serious as scum or something else?

[Infinity 324]

Infinity I still need to sort but him disappearing without an Unvote is sus as well.

I'm still here, mason claim is still a joke and mara will confirm that when she gets back. No idea why you think scum wouldn't joke when town would

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

[Infinity 324]

Horse is still town

[Infinity 324]

Could you explain the read on Mark and myself, last time you pocketed me hard as scum and I’m super wary of it.

It might be easier to try to exit my scumrange in other ways. My read on you two is gut + I mindmelded with a few of your posts + towny initiative

[Infinity 324]

Horse is still town

If not Horse, who else would you yeet as of now?

I guess noraa would be my top SR, but I still haven't made up my mind on her yet. I want to hear from the other replacements and AGP/toog mainly.

[Infinity 324]

No way infinity townreads Horse keeping a vote on a mason. I just don’t see it.

Huh? I kept my vote on the mason claim too...

[Infinity 324]

Normally when someone makes a statement, and then says "seriously though" immediately following that statement, the statement is meant to be interpreted humorously.

[Infinity 324]

And you're expecting someone who's new to the site to know that?

[Infinity 324]

Then when the claim is fucking demonstrated almost certain to be true you unvote.

That’s newbie 101.

Neither you nor Horse did.

Excuse me? It was framed as a joke originally. When mara clarified that it was a serious claim, I unvoted. Horse hasn't posted since then.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I'll wait for horse to respond but if something looks like a joke, I assume it is until the person that wrote it clarifies otherwise.

[Infinity 324]

Could you explain the read on Mark and myself, last time you pocketed me hard as scum and I’m super wary of it.

It might be easier to try to exit my scumrange in other ways. My read on you two is gut + I mindmelded with a few of your posts + towny initiative

Exit your scumrange?

Yeah like, do things I couldn't do as scum

[Infinity 324]

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

[Infinity 324]

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Hammering with 4 days left in the day phase is kinda a scumclaim imo

[Infinity 324]

Math do you have any reads based on what people have posted?

PEdit: I’m assuming they got a chance to real claim though? Hammering without a (confirmed serious) claim is the scummiest part and it doesn’t really happen ime.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: flea I wanna try this. Fae has seemed pretty fluffy and the ISO on horse felt pretty stretchy at points.

[Infinity 324]

You can play serious as scum, that’s all my point really was

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: noraa I don’t think you approach reads like this as town. Math does unfortunately.

[Infinity 324]

Why does horse being town mean there have to be deep wolves?

The most likely scenario with horse is that scum were ok with her wagon stalling since no scum was threatened.

[Infinity 324]

Problem is, there isn’t a good case on horse so scum hopping on the wagon have a hard time justifying it imo. Being the third person to jump on horse for saying she’s new to the site when she’s not new to mafia on page 3 looks pretty bad.

[Infinity 324]

Problem is, there isn’t a good case on horse so scum hopping on the wagon have a hard time justifying it imo. Being the third person to jump on horse for saying she’s new to the site when she’s not new to mafia on page 3 looks pretty bad.

Oh so if you’re scum then you thought you couldn’t vote her if Horse is town.

Scum have had plenty of opportunities. It seems odd they wouldn’t want Horse.

The way most people play scum d1, it’s about blending in and looking town. No need to take risks by poorly justifying a vote on a town wagon unless scum is in danger.

[Infinity 324]

This game has evidence and you’re speaking in unverifiable generalities.

How is “the wagon stalled therefore horse is scum” not an unverifiable generality??

[Infinity 324]

Noraa given that you’ve scumread me twice in the past and I was town I don’t think you’d be so confident reading me this time.

PEdit: Math, the “therefore horse is scum” part is the unverifiable part. I can probably find a ton of wagons on town that stalled d1 if I bothered. “Scum generally x” is literally how you play mafia, yeah it’s hard to verify but people can agree or disagree based on their personal experience.

Noraa, I didn’t feel the need to comment on the mason claim because I didn’t think it was a claim. If I was waiting to see what other people said, why was I the first person to say I thought it was a joke.

[Infinity 324]

Noraa given that you’ve scumread me twice in the past and I was town I don’t think you’d be so confident reading me this time.

I have confidence when I do. doesn't matter how many times I mess up in the past. Take golden for example. I've read him wrong three times yet I still have confidence.

Hmm, but you just said that other people disagreeing with you makes you doubt a read because of past games where others have disagreed with you and you’ve been wrong. Why does that not apply to individual players?

PEdit: you can’t come to any solid conclusions based on d1 wagonomics, especially when a good portion of the playerbase is absent.

I’m gonna stop posting for a bit to make it easier for people to catch up.

[Infinity 324]

remembered wrong. that's right. Who TRs infinity?

No one. Exactly. Infinity why are you using what I said earlier in the game against me?
Nearly all the plist SRed horse which made me doubt myself and here ur trying to discredit my reads by using that against me?

Last post. I don’t understand why other people doubting you and you being wrong in previous games make you doubt yourself, but being wrong on one player multiple times doesn’t make you doubt yourself. They’re not the same thing, but they’re related enough that I find it an odd contrast.

PEdit: hi mark!

Noraa not changing her read on guillo when presented with new evidence is scummy

[Infinity 324]

Despite only having one completed game with flea, I wanna say that faer wouldn't be this bad as town.

[Infinity 324]

@Flea: Ah right, that seems reasonable. You can be quite disarming sometimes, which makes it hard to tell when you are joking. I still think that your core premise of it being a fakeclaim seems unlikely and there is deffo scum motivation for wanting to cast doubt on a claim, but I understand your position better now and no longer SR you for the not voting/hard pushing momrangal aspect of that interaction

I’m not sure I agree. Why is fae hard pushing guillo here with so much effort if fae is trying to conserve faer energy? It feels like fae thinks fae will look bad and risk a deathtunnel from math) if fae pushes it too hard. (This also means that math is probably town if flea is scum)

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: flea

Flea, sorry if you’re town and I’m upsetting you by saying this. But the energy sorta feels like an excuse when you’re sure mara is scum and you don’t want to push her.

[Infinity 324]

Noraa you’re kinda reminding me of how I felt about you in haunted village so I wanna give you another chance. What about me is off my town meta? I feel like I played really different in both the town games you’ve seen too.

[Infinity 324]

Math can you not do the thing where you enter the game and have one silly reason to SR me and confbias tunnel me for the rest of the game please

[Infinity 324]

Oh gods I broke my post again and it's like miles long.

To quickly answer the mason comment, because I'm not completely sure. While I do think it's incredibly unlikely I cannot say with enough conviction to warrant a vote. I have reads with greater conviction currently.

Missed this post. This is a better reason that the energy thing, though I’m still quite confused why scum would fakeclaim mason here because having to tie yourself to a scumbuddy so directly seems like a very bad idea.

I also missed 1069 which is a towny post from noraa.

PEdit: @Vax I probably would’ve voted flea earlier if there was more support. I’m trying to get a wagon going besides this awful horse wagon.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: DGB I’m feeling this actually

[Infinity 324]

I’m playing more aggressive than usual actually.

[Infinity 324]

DGB kinda feels like it’s caught for the wrong reasons. The tone is really off in 1176

[Infinity 324]

I wouldn’t say I’m sheeping horse, I agreed with the mara scumread for my own reason and voted DGB before she started pushing it.

[Infinity 324]

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

[Infinity 324]

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

I agree with the “you don’t want to elim her today” part.
Let’s assume you’re town:

The obstacle you have is you have to convince six people (one of whom is very loud and obnoxious *cough*me*cough*) to change their minds.

Unless you think a majority of scum are on Horse already if you succeed that will inevitably have most of the scum. Which makes whoever you push likely town.

I want to at least force scum to make a choice. If there’s no wagon on scum, VCA later doesn’t mean anything. I’m gonna push scum until it’s time to compromise.

[Infinity 324]

Say every major wagon today flips town. That gives us nothing because scum can be on or off any wagon since town is getting limmed no matter what. It’s not time to compromise until 2 days left in deadline imo.

[Infinity 324]

This is not productive.

We disagree.

[Infinity 324]

Help me bus DGB

[Infinity 324]

I’m already voting DGB

[Infinity 324]

Noraa -> English translation:

“I think horse is kinda scummy” -> “Horse is a solid TR”

[Infinity 324]

I’m ok with the risk of outing a mason, there’s always a risk of outing a PR on d1. I do think that we should tend towards running up someone who was on mara’s wagon if they’re about equally scummy.

[Infinity 324]

Toogeloo in the other hand, the posts of that slot does not give me town vibes and again, they voted Mom right after she claimed Mason.

I don't have a read on toog atm. I was thinking they could be scum because it feels like scum are in the inactives/blending in this game, but their posts are null for me. They also pointed out that they thought the mason claim was a joke. They could be lying and just using my reason as an excuse, but it looked so much like a joke to me that I don't really think it's AI.

Because Horsewoman is doing the same and has more votes.

If Toog gets that high I am not entirely opposed just right now the fact Horse hasn’t been hammered means she’s scum. D1 elims are not usually this hard on town. They just aren’t.

There have been so many examples of town wagons getting resistance because scum aren't interested in pushing the elim yet or some other reason, and then scum use that as an excuse to jump on or "compromise" there at deadline. The "resistance" tell is super overused imo.

Nobody actually ever follows up with these types of reads.

I mean not really this was an exaggeration but it's not as much of a scum-claim than it is just anti-town and scummy.

I see what you're saying, but there's only certain players who could get away with it. If I lolhammered mara, people would be super suspicious since I don't do early hammers. Some players (not_mafia, dunn) do it as town sometimes so they can get away with it but most don't do it as town and don't risk doing it as scum as a result. That's why I think there was no real risk of a hammer.

VOTE: noraa I don’t think you approach reads like this as town. Math does unfortunately.

Can you explain this Noraa read for me? I understand at it's core but I am not sure I am following exactly

The logic of "you were trying to lim the mason claim" when I thought it was a joke is really shallow and I think noraa can have a lot more depth as town. Then I remembered haunted village where I feel like she didn't really get a good footing in the game and all her SRs were people that were pushing her. I thought she was scum there and she was town. The way she's played so far doesn't feel like she's trying to get townread, and when she says stuff like "idgaf you're still scum" it feels towny to me. So noraa is a lean town for me atm.

If we have a vigilante, I recommend shooting in the low-posters to clear the null-tier. The scummy players and the townie players sort themselves out more or less where I've seen null tier stay null and loses us the game.

Vig should shoot either Toog, Infinity, or DGB.

I just fully clicked with what you said here and I am going to say this as blunt as I possibly can. Vigilante's shooting within scummy players effectively wastes town utility considering they're essentially a secondary elimination. Scummy and Townie players are much more likely to sort themselves given Town's default utility with day eliminations, null players however getting sorted through the night is a much more effective use of a vigilante.

I don't agree, I think the vig should shoot scummy players so it saves town an elim. Then we can re-evaluate null or towny players during the day phase.

I town-read infinity

Why do you TR me again?

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

Maybe that's just the word choice I use to state townreads as both alignments?

[Infinity 324]

It’s not a tell. It’s only an indicator as I explained earlier.

It’s not 100%. The fact you called it a tell I think is illuminating.

A tell, an indicator, same thing to me. Something you use to try to figure out someone's alignment.

[Infinity 324]

Maybe I shouldn’t read people who don’t give a shit as town, but I do. Toog definitely falls into that category. Drawing attention to the fact that everyone wants to elim him but no one’s voting there feels towny to me too.

[Infinity 324]

Toog is definitely being anti-town but that doesn’t mean they’re scum.

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity, who are your SRing here besides DGB? You seem keen to defend Toog/Horse so you must have a pretty different view of the gamestate to most of the plist right now

I don’t have any other real scumreads. There’s probably at least 1 scum in {AGP, flea, vacuum}, and I’m likely wrong on at least 1 townread (which is everyone else).

If I’m up for it I may try to explain a bit better why I scumread DGB, but it looks like it might be too late.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: DGB

Can we talk about why a bunch of people (including DGB itself) were suddenly confident in horse-scum when DGB got a wagon?

[Infinity 324]

There's no reason to out the protective here.

[Infinity 324]

Why am I scum?

[Infinity 324]

I hate it when people get scumread for being right. Noraa’s TR on horse doesn’t look like TMI at all to me.

[Infinity 324]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

[Infinity 324]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

What was not Townie by the end of the day?

His aggression and sorting from earlier in the day turned into a very forgettable presence. It felt like he was saying stuff just to say it. The progression on horse, from thinking she said some towny stuff to going back to scumreading her didn’t feel particularly genuine. The response to flea’s case felt...not as flippant as I expected. The case was bad enough imo that I think most would be really frustrated by it as town and guillo instead seemed to give more validity to the case than it had.

[Infinity 324]

I think guillo could be a good pick for a “deepwolf” in the townbloc, and so would DGB. It gave a lot of consensus reads, but presented them in nuanced ways in order to look like it had original thoughts.

PEdit: I could maybe give more examples but casing isn’t my strong suit.

[Infinity 324]

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?

Jackson claimed responsibility for the Toog kill.

Ohhhh. Ok so possibilities are
1) Jacko is scum
2) Jacko and scum double killed toog (Trust me this is possible. Last time I was vig, the scums and me killed the same person and that's why the doc on that person didn't work)
3) Jacko is vig and something happened to the scum kill

I think 3 is the most likely, and I think 1 is way more likely than 2. I don’t see why scum would shoot toog if not to semi-confirm a vig claim.

VOTE: guillo I’m gonna trust math here, but reluctantly. The last time I let a scumread go because of a soft they were scum.

[Infinity 324]

I guess with toog’s play scum could’ve though they were PR, but toog would’ve been a pretty good mislim target imo.

[Infinity 324]

Mostly I’m trusting you on DGB being town, and in that case guillo is where I’d want to go next.

[Infinity 324]

Can we not do this? Scum already have more info than they should. I’m pretty sure math is town.

[Infinity 324]

I don’t want you to claim anything is all.

[Infinity 324]

I quoted a lot of guillo's end of day and it's even worse than I thought. Very little of it has a scumhunting purpose, and there's a lot of LAMIST and pocketing of math and mark.

Spoiler:

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

o

VOTE: Horsewoman

why the backflip here?

VOTE: Horsewoman

Horsewoman and Toog based on skim of VCs

What about VCs enables you to be remotely as confident as you are about this

I townread your counterwagon. I don't townread you.

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

Rule of three says anytime scum list three names there’s a high likelihood one or more is scum to maintain credibility/gamestate. It’s not a sure fire thing but it’s more likely. I am still catching up but generally I look for things like that and see if they are supported by the gamestate

I don't think she'd name both? Too risky. Don't you think?

Horse is still town

If not Horse, who else would you yeet as of now?

Horse is still town

Horse is still town despite voting a mason.

Funny.

Vote horse or you’re scum with her.

I don't like the tone of this.

What happens if Horse flips town then? How would you read Infinity then?

Let every player cast their vote without pressure, it's easier to sort wagons and vanity wagons out that way.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Stuff like this makes me think infinity is scum.

If he thought the mason claim was fake his vote is okay.

If he thought the mason claim was real why vote her if town?

I really just think it’s Horse+Infinity and maybe I was wrong on Toog.

I would wanna flip Horse to see if that assumption is correct.

Yah but infinity is not saying that he believed the claim was real, and he didnt as Momrangal had to confirm for him to remove his vote. So, i think it is genuine.
What he is saying is that if you were certain that Momrangal was Mason, you couldn't have felt worried, which is not necessarily AI but it is wrong! Because the wagon was going up fast in votes and she could have been yeeted at that rate.

I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here.

... if she is a fake and

she is baiting real masons

and the real masons take the bait, that's like 1 for 2 from a scum perspective.
tho

normally scum try to bait out roles

like vig or cop I'll admit.

I believe the claim but ur reasoning for believing it are dumber than having no reason imo.

No! They never would try to outright bait for Masons in a themed game! LOL They would hunt for PRs ALWAYS!!!

Also, two Masons counterclaiming does not guarantee their demise during the night for a "1 for 2!" Are you for real!? They become town clears and PRs will confirm/protect/watch those town clears, hence why scum will not try to attack them on Night 1! You always protect the town clears over everyone else this early game! Get out of here!

So yah! I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here still stands!

Good job at looking dumber while calling other people dumb.

Right, I have at least read the last 13 pages. Digesting it all and applying scrutiny will happen at an undisclosed date TBC

UNVOTE: Momrangal - because eliming a claimed mason would be bad. Cool things that came out of this wagon include:
--Premature claim - being elimed overnight from E-2 seems like overcaution to me (++TR for JV asking the same question that was in my head ref this in 793). This being said, I reckon the claim is probably legit because would be a massive risk to fake-claim mason and get counterclaimed.
--789 from flea casting doubt over the mason claim confused me - @Flea: why don't you believe the claim?
--973 is a mahooosive stretch from noraa to try and shade DGB by implying they were avoiding the thread in case mom got hammered in the meantime

Math makes a good argument ref infinity's seemingly inconsistent position on Mom ref whether he believed their claim or not

BUT

the bigger question is why did Toog vote there after the claim? I was TRing them before this wagon but their behavior (vote there after the claim then subsequently unvote) just straight-up confuses me. Wondering if TSTBS

Guillo is swinging ++TR of the back of the last 10 pages or so - I won't quote any single post as it is more the consistent proactiveness and analysis. @Guillo - I have skimmed your response to me ref why you SR me so thanks for taking the time to articulate that and I'll take the time to properly read it and respond tomorrow IRL.

++SR Pig for 858 - his only contribution of the back off all that drama was his unvote and some IIOA (checkout me learning all the lingo!)

Keen to hear from Flea ref why they weren't convinced ref the mason claim and from toog ref his post-claim vote. These are two potential smoking guns right now IMO

VOTE: Toogeloo seems like a good place to be for now. Ref horse, I need to look at her more as stuff like 683 where she defends Mom just feels ++TR. If they were scum and looking likely the most likely elim today then why would they try to defend the next most likely elim target at the time?

I love this post and looking forward to your response to my read on you.

I'm willing to eliminate Toogeloo if Horsewoman and Noraa yeets are out of question today.

In order of preference: Noraa, Horsewoman, Toogeloo

Pig, i'd like to request a Prod, im not yeeting that slot today as it would give us no information.

And how did they play in previous games?

Not sure.
I've played two games with him.
One where he was town and got nk'ed for softing pr hard.
The other where he was scum and doomed his slot.

Lies. Three games.

230 normal - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84936

Open 800 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84885

Xenoblade 2 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84949

Why not? I would even if it was not directed at me. Do you recommend other players to ignore it? Are you not going to read my equally long reply to that long post? What if i said that my long wall post is more readable than Faer as the fonts were colored to stand out (unless you got ocular problems of course).

To me it was important to reply to her antagonizing ill intended long post on me, i think it is important you read it and my reply to it as well.

Clearly I am not recommending other players ignore it - it would be great if everyone read every post in the game. I am, however, a pragmatist, so I was just giving the advice that shorter, more concise dives would probably get more widely read. A lot of it also felt very speculative/borderline confbiased, which I noted you picked up in your response (tbqh I skimmed your response, but will read as time allows). An example of this confbias/stretching is you having them as null in your reads list, which tbf I found odd but made sense when you explained it.

Yah honestly several shorter chunks would have been great.

Thank you for your responses. You are out of my scum list. I wanna town lean you but i wanna be cautious too, you are in probation instead (null)

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

Sorry but i dont judge based on meta from other games.

Then what about the VCA from this one?

What does it tell you?

Give me something that says why you townread Horse instead of just “no”.

I don't townread Horsewoman i just have doubts about her being scum, in fact i'm looking at her closely today to confirm something.

I'm here to rock your worlds yo![/quote]

This is something that at least gives insight on you and can hopefully help others see why I townread you. We need more posts like this. I disagree with the no meta thing but I get it as I used to be a no meta player. People please go into detail like G is when you post. Please.

Bruh this is too much. Like im very wary when people put me on a pedestal like that cause

Positive Reality Support

exists and elimination by associations exists too.

Positive Reality Support.

Gaslighting is a manipulation technique used to deny a person’s reality in order to make them doubt their own mind, intuition, and perception of events. The term comes from a play/movie where a husband dismisses as merely imagined his wife’s notice of the gas lights being dimmed, while he indeed inadvertently dimmed the lights by using gas lights elsewhere to search for jewels of a woman he has murdered. Gaslighting is often contrasted to the

positive support of player

‘realities’, but that support can also be feigned and twisted to mafia advantage. In fact the two are often commingled so that it becomes confusing to separate harm from an appearance of support – a passive-aggressive chipping away of player confidences, tricking them into being unsure of anything.

Imagine if you actually flipped scum, this post could associate me with you and get me misyeeted.

Let's townread each other for the right reasons, i understand my sit in your town list is not guaranteed as neither is yours in mine.

[Infinity 324]

So you state that scum already have more info than they should and then you say you are pretty sure Math is town.

That's contradicting!

Me saying that math is town doesn't give scum much more info than they already had given my stated TR on math d1.

[Infinity 324]

If we're gonna massclaim, do we want to wait to out the protective? That at least makes it harder for scum to pick off PRs.

[Infinity 324]

1) JacksonVirgo has disagreed with me, he is still townread. Nono was in my null list, Math took over, we've disagree in pushing methods, i town read him.

Jacko is the only TR you've kept.

You only like Math cuz he TRs u hard and is currently the town leader.

Case in point, he is the town leader and he town reads me.
I townread him because he acts like how town should and I love getting townread because I am town.

Ok maybe this isn’t super pockety but it doesn’t feel super towny either.

[Infinity 324]

Mom said you should say who should claim next and why

[Infinity 324]

Nopenopenope

We aren't doing this now.

The claims aren't going to be burried

Do you really want to wait until mark wakes up and checks in again in order to progress the game?

[Infinity 324]

Guillo, we’re literally telling the protective not to claim. Can we just listen to the mason?

[Infinity 324]

PR mason would be normal btw

[Infinity 324]

Note that DGB got on the horse wagon eventually.

[Infinity 324]

Vax can you claim so we can get on with this

[Infinity 324]

Because we're massclaiming and mara thinks you could be scum

[Infinity 324]

Guillo

WE ARE NOT OUTING THE PROTECTIVE TODAY

[Infinity 324]

which makes this whole exercise pointless as the scum know to shoot within VTs...

If they shoot within the VTs, great. They aren't shooting PRs and they probably take a while to hit the protective. If the protective is actually a BP then even better.

[Infinity 324]

I'm VT.

Was thinking about guillo's stubbornness to claim maybe being towny, but I have no idea who the scum are if so.

UNVOTE:

[Infinity 324]

I've seen noraa play like this as town before, I guess she goes in my PoE though. I thought she was a mason before but I still can't see noraa playing the way she has this game thinking "yep this looks like good scum play"

[Infinity 324]

Noraa- camper
Marky Mark- camper
Toogeloo killed night 1 was a camper
DrippingGoofball-???
Flea the Magician-???
AGamblingPig-???
Mathblade-???
Guillotina- camper
JacksonVirgo- N1 vig
Infinity 324- camper
Momrangal- mason
Horsewoman eliminated d1 was a camper
Vaxkiller-PGO

This is where we're at right now, pig is supposed to claim next.

[Infinity 324]

So did guillo lol

[Infinity 324]

I claimed VT

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: pig

[Infinity 324]

As far as I can remember, my TR on math has slowly strengthened over time.

[Infinity 324]

Wait what happened to the kill then? You think we have another protective?

[Infinity 324]

Imagine how I felt when you were a vig in that mini normal and there were 3 nights in a row with only 1 kill lol

[Infinity 324]

Meaning: I see what you're saying but there have been bigger coincidences.

[Infinity 324]

It's such a weird fakeclaim is my only concern. Like why doesn't one of his scumbuddies claim doc to try to save him or something? And why claim doc on vax?

PEdit: I think JV is ++town on play.

[Infinity 324]

Couldn’t vax be a scum PGO?

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: vax

[Infinity 324]

I believe it was a fruit vendor. I wonder if scum were worried about a protective, as the protective was supposed to claim VT.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah it could be that a roleblocker is our only "protective", but we could also have a doctor or something on top. We don't know, and neither do scum.

[Infinity 324]

Couldn't vax be a scum PGO anyway?

[Infinity 324]

True, fae didn't confirm that fae was targeting vax but it's likely. In that case, either DGB or mystery protective blocked another kill.

[Infinity 324]

overdramatized reaction

You've never played with noraa before yeah?

[Infinity 324]

overdramatized reaction

You've never played with noraa before yeah?

I have. Three times

So why are you still saying that overdramatizing something is scummy for her? She does that all the time (sorry noraa, it's true)

[Infinity 324]

Hmm maybe vax fakeclaimed PGO and scum decided to kill
flea to avoid outing him

[Infinity 324]

We could still have a secret protective.

[Infinity 324]

Roleblocking the PGO kills the roleblocker

[Infinity 324]

Does anyone disagree that we win if we lim me, noraa, me, and vax?

[Infinity 324]

Me, noraa, guillo*, vax

[Infinity 324]

Why would a roleblocker block a claimed PR?

[Infinity 324]

This is just tinfoil but... What if DBG fake claimed roleblocker and bussed Pig for towncred?

I think this only makes sense if JV is also scum, because otherwise scum would've had to no-kill, which doesn't seem worth it. Maybe DGB is more big-brained as scum than I realize, but it seems unlikely.

[Infinity 324]

Why would a roleblocker block a claimed PR?

Are you serious? Roleblockers sole job is to ROLE...block!

The point of a town roleblocker is to try to roleblock the kill, not to roleblock town PRs.

[Infinity 324]

Why wouldn't a scum PR claim VT?

[Infinity 324]

I'm pretty sure everyone claimed and the best play is to block whoever you think is scum

PEdit: @math hmm ok

@guillo I guess, still feel like you want to block the kill instead of hoping one of the town PRs is a scum PR. If you're wrong, you blocked a town PR which sucks.

[Infinity 324]

I'm not sure I agree math, but we can talk about it once you reveal your info.

[Infinity 324]

I think 1-shot vig + RB + mason + mason+ (the others aren't really power) vs. 2 goons + rolestopper or something is probably fine.

[Infinity 324]

@Math If it's both of them scum probably needs more power. If not it's fine.

[Infinity 324]

@Math If it's both of them scum probably needs more power. If not it's fine.

It’s my opinion scum needs more power or a way to dodge the investigations.

I see what you're saying, rolestopper wouldn't make sense with guillo scum. Could be an ascetic but that's probably not enough power then.

[Infinity 324]

Do you think it's vax + noraa math? If not, who's scum?

[Infinity 324]

I don't want to consider DGB scum until we have a secret protective potentially claim, and I want to wait at least another day phase to do that.

[Infinity 324]

Scum!you can just check the wiki anyway

[Infinity 324]

Scum!you can just check the wiki anyway

Huh?

I was just saying that if you were scum you could've just checked the wiki to confirm whether PGOs get notified if they are targeted.

Vax being an ascetic would make a lot of sense I think, but they could still be scum PGO? Idk, I just think they're scum.

Btw math, I think you may be overestimating how much power town has. Roleblocker isn't a super strong PR, and neither is 1-shot vig. Most of town's power is in the masons. I think if vax flips ascetic guillo could still be goon, depending on exactly what the masons are.

If vax is town, I don't see a reason for scum to block flea.

[Infinity 324]

If someone got a fruit or w/e from flea they should claim it

Otherwise I don't see how vax is town. Scum would've had to block and kill flea right?

[Infinity 324]

If someone got a fruit or w/e from flea they should claim it

Otherwise I don't see how vax is town. Scum would've had to block and kill flea right?

Exactly my point.

Scum Vax would 100% claim visited here. Even if he wasn’t because he’d be the elim either way he has nothing to lose.

The fact he claimed not visited means it’s probably a setup with DGB blocking flea. It probably took it a step too far.

It doesn't make sense to me though because vax was already likely to be limmed and flea was likely to be in the limpool as well. They sacrifice a better NK and their roleblock to lim someone who probably would've been limmed anyway. More likely vax is just scum and messed up.

[Infinity 324]

Still gonna hold off on evaluating math's theory until the masons full claim. Which is fine, since we can just lim vax today.

[Infinity 324]

If my SR on DGB d1 was right and it guiltied its buddy I will lmao.

[Infinity 324]

Math is ++town by play imo, if there's scum outside {vax, guillo, noraa} it's
DGB

[Infinity 324]

Math is ++town by play imo, if there's scum outside {vax, guillo, noraa} it's
DGB

Rebalance this setup if we’re both investigatives please.

Is PGO town or scum here? Same with the RB.

Yeah it really depends on what the investigatives are. I'm not the best setup speccer but unless they're really powerful investigatives I think scum is fine with only 1 PR.

[Infinity 324]

Maybe they have ascetic + gated PR or something. Vax being scum ascetic makes a lot of sense to me. Guillo has felt towny to me anyway.

[Infinity 324]

Maybe they have ascetic + gated PR or something. Vax being scum ascetic makes a lot of sense to me. Guillo has felt towny to me anyway.

Yeah it’s possible it’s just a rare gut read I have. I get I should vote Vax I don’t wanna though.

That ever happen to you?

Yeah for sure. I've learned that mostly you just want to elim the person who makes the most sense to be scum, but sometimes you have to trust your gut too. Honestly I kinda feel the opposite, my gut is saying vax is scum here but you don't have to vote them if you don't want

[Infinity 324]

Math is ++town by play imo, if there's scum outside {vax, guillo, noraa} it's
DGB

except you just called me town a hot second ago so why am I even in a pool of scumbuckets?

Because we have a lot of confirmed/semi-confirmed roles

[Infinity 324]

well unless the scum team is just Vax/Guillo, something went really wrong.

Mark or me could be scum fypov right?

Still feel like vax is likely scum, if they thought flea visited someone else then it makes sense they wouldn't claim a fruit. They're probably not a PGO though.

Math, if vax fakeclaimed PGO killing flea makes sense right? It frames DGB's block target, and if flea targets vax and lives then they're outed.

[Infinity 324]

When pig said "I wish I was that smart", it felt genuine to me. I don't think pig actually meant to crumb PGO.

[Infinity 324]

Still feel like vax is likely scum, if they thought flea visited someone else then it makes sense they wouldn't claim a fruit. They're probably not a PGO though.

Responding to this mostly

I think vax is fakeclaiming PGO and NKed flea. It makes sense that vax didn't claim the fruit to begin with since they thought flea visited someone else. Vax actually receiving the fruit makes it unlikely vax is PGO unless guillo is also scum, but they could still be fakeclaiming.

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity

Based on certain things that have not yet come light, how likely do you think DBG could be scum here?

Honestly it's possible but I don't really want to consider that until
you two full claim and there really isn't another possibility.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: guillo

Fine

[Infinity 324]

Really really doubt scum has a ninja to counter just a motion detector. Those mason PRs are pretty weak and I think scum probably only has 1 PR. DGB being the town's only protective is a good point too.

[Infinity 324]

Really really doubt scum has a ninja to counter just a motion detector. Those mason PRs are pretty weak and I think scum probably only has 1 PR. DGB being the town's only protective is a good point too.

I am not so sure about that. Rolecop is very strong PR.
I really think scum have a ninja here. Trust me.

Rolecop isn't that strong imo, it's about the level of tracker I think. It can catch scum if they try to fakeclaim, but often they'll just be a goon fakeclaiming VT. Also unless you have info I don't a ninja just for a motion detector makes absolutely zero sense.

[Infinity 324]

I'm actually VT, I tried to soft the protective a bit so that scum would NK me.

PEdit: yeah I think scum probably have some kind of power. RC is decently strong but keep in mind most of the town's power is in the masons.

[Infinity 324]

Noraa, I'm gonna slow down my posting and you can solve ok?

[Infinity 324]

My exact theory is DGB is roleblock ing scum who bussed
Noraa is ninja
And if 4 scum to balance power G is second goon

How do you explain the single kill last night then, given the PGO? Are you thinking that scum no-killed here to frame G? Seems odd to turn down a free kill on a mason+ just to maaaaybe frame someone

VOTE: vax I feel like this is better.

[Infinity 324]

People probably aren't going to call you bluff most of the time.

[Infinity 324]

Then the best course of action is to yeet me! Im a camper and my yeet will help town figure shit out

This?

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: guillo

I'm getting math's paranoia tbh. 2996 in particular feels genuine.

[Infinity 324]

Idk I feel like vax is town

[Infinity 324]

Idk I feel like vax is town

And because I don't then I must be scum? Is that the reason behind your vote on me?

Because it's quite peculiar that you voted right after I pressured Vax.

I mean I don't buy the theory that scum no killed just to frame vax, so the only other explanation is that you made the kill and we're blocked.

[Infinity 324]

You are gonna buy the theory after I flip camper, if not, then what theory will you buy

I'm gonna buy the vax-scum theory in that case

[Infinity 324]

It’s really not rare.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/da ... role=Ninja

Mafia universe has it too.

What sites do you play on Noraa?

Tbf I'm not sure I've been in a game with a ninja. It's pretty rare ime

[Infinity 324]

MAFIA FACTIONAL KILLS ARE ALWAYS MANDATORY! UNLESS STATED IN THE OP

This isn't true I've been in/seen multiple games where scum intentionally no killed and I don't think there was a specific rule allowing it

[Infinity 324]

Guillo if you change sites people are gonna play the game differently idk wtf you expected

[Infinity 324]

It’s really not rare.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/da ... role=Ninja

Mafia universe has it too.

What sites do you play on Noraa?

Tbf I'm not sure I've been in a game with a ninja. It's pretty rare ime

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68714

Dude...lol

Ok that was a while ago

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: vax

[Infinity 324]

Mod more or less confirmed Vax pgo

Maybe he thought that flea being night killed would mean faer action wouldn't happen?

[Infinity 324]

Vax being town doesn't make sense here. Even if he's PGO, he's scum here by PoE. I don't even want the secret protective to claim here, but if we're thinking about limming DGB we 100% should have them claim. If there's no secret protective, DGB is 100% town. If there is, I'm pretty sure DGB is scum.

[Infinity 324]

I figured ranger meant mason in this game, but we really should have the whole role pm posted

[Infinity 324]

Press x to doubt

[Infinity 324]

Mod, was mathblade a mason?

[Infinity 324]

I suppose DGB has seen it happen before, but yeah it's not likely.

[Infinity 324]

To be clear, I was doubting the idea that the masons were fakeclaiming.

[Infinity 324]

I agree but I don't think DGB can be scum unless we have a secret protective so w/e

[Infinity 324]

Did DGB do that? I was spectating smoke filled antechamber for a bit and pooky convinced alisae to claim masons with them in that game.

[Infinity 324]

Right. So DGB is town.

[Infinity 324]

The problem is I don't really know much about setup spec and last time I got convinced to trust all the prs were town, one was scum and we nearly lost the game if not for the scum pr guiltying a town vengeful

Lmao except there was a secret town BP vengeful there.

[Infinity 324]

I was spectating

[Infinity 324]

4:2, meaning 4 town and 2 scum, is not a scum win

[Infinity 324]

Said it before and I'll say it again, I'm 90% sure DGB has to be town based on setup spec.

[Infinity 324]

Mod, was this setup reviewed?

[Infinity 324]

Because people are ignoring it lol

[Infinity 324]

I don't think mark is scum btw, he's less active than usual but the vibe is the exact same from when I've seen him as town. He just has the air of earnestness. I'll have to check out his scum game but I think he's out of his scum range.

[Infinity 324]

I think it's important to recognize when someone's out of their scum range and I think most people who only have one scum game on site couldn't fake what mark is doing this game, much less someone who was limmed d1 in their only scumgame

[Infinity 324]

@JV Mostly I wanted to get a vax scum flip today and then look at associatives/VCA tomorrow for reads. My solve atm is vax/noraa, I've felt that noraa is town for a while but my townvibes aren't as strong as they are on other people and I can't read noraa anyway.

I don't really feel like I've been copying your reads except the obvious setup spec one that DGB is town that really should be consensus but isn't.

[Infinity 324]

I agree with mark that DGB/JV makes more sense than other DGB teams. No killing n1 and guiltying your partner makes much less sense if you're only confirming 1 claim instead of 2.

[Infinity 324]

All town wagons are possible, there's no particular reason why scum have to be on a town wagon except for probability. If no scum is in danger, scum actually want to be off the wagon.

[Infinity 324]

Noraa you realize scum can quickhammer right?

I mean I'm ok with it if you are. Just letting you know.

[Infinity 324]

Who do you think is DGB's partner?

@JV Why did you shoot n1 if you think your role is negative utility?

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but if you think it's negative utility you shouldn't shoot right?

[Infinity 324]

But they shot toog. And if you're putting town on evens, you might as well just use an elim instead.

[Infinity 324]

Toog wasn't vig'ged???

Lol the only way you would know toog wasn't vigged was if you were scum with JV

[Infinity 324]

Toog died n1, pig was limmed d2.

I have no idea how you forgot that you RBed pig n1 as town.

[Infinity 324]

What if scum have 3 goons/only a gated PR?

[Infinity 324]

What if scum have 3 goons/only a gated PR?

When I was designing normal games I was told that an all-goon setup usually needs three moderately strong Town PRs. But what's the tinfoil where you're seeing 3 goons/gated PR?

Idk I just really think DGB is scum. I TR everyone else

[Infinity 324]

I don't want to lose to scum!noraa here, but her play from the beginning has made no sense from scum.

JV: if you're town, noraa voting DGB here as scum makes no sense because she knows you will vote for her over DGB.

Maybe scum have some setup info, but the thing is a protective is not a cc for a roleblocker. And DGB had time to plan out its specific claim.

[Infinity 324]

If you think roleblocker is a cc for a protective, then 1-shot BP certainly isn't. DGB could've picked a claim based on what town claimed.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that's true. Scum definitely could've done setup spec based on their PRs though.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that's true. Scum definitely could've done setup spec based on their PRs though.

I don't really appreciate WIFOM discussions as they're unreliable as I've said. Also what roles would have led them to think Town had no protectives, no roleblockers and no roles that block kills etc.

It would have to cover the whole 9 yards, which probably never happens in a setup. Especially with masons.

I really don't think gated roleblocker is a cc to almost any protective, even in a normal it'd be fine but we're in a theme. It's like detective and role watcher.

[Infinity 324]

JV can you out your info already I don't feel like putting effort into solving when I don't have full info

PEdit: that's just not true though? Town can have multiple investigatives (and do in this game), why doesn't multiple protectives make sense? I've seen doctor + 1-shot BP before, doctor + 2-shot RB really doesn't seem that insane. Even if I'm wrong, if scum believed that it was believable to have doctor + rb then that's all that matters.

[Infinity 324]

Did you crumb that you'd be targeting DGB in case it was scum and you died?

[Infinity 324]

I didn't since if my soft was caught I could be led into a false-negative with a scum roleblocker, I was already confident they were Town I just wanted to be sure. It was a risk I was willing to take but it paid off.

That doesn't make sense, you might as well just treat DGB as conftown anyway if you're willing to die for no benefit if it's scum.

[Infinity 324]

ascetic scum

Hmm

I do think that ascetic scum makes a lot of sense with the flavor.

[Infinity 324]

ascetic scum

Hmm

I do think that ascetic scum makes a lot of sense with the flavor.

Mind explaining what you see?

An ascetic is someone who lives in the woods, and a lot of yellowstone is woods. It could make sense.

I still don't have a good explanation for why scum no killed n2 except for DGB being scum. But if DGB is scum, I think JV is town weirdly enough. Rolecop/tracker mason + motion detector mason + fruit vendor + PGO vs. ascetic/rb and two goons is too scumsided.

[Infinity 324]

I'm pretty sure we've established that one of DGB and noraa is scum.

[Infinity 324]

Crosskilling is basically the same as a no kill. Math specifically instructed flea to target vax, killing flea would be really weird especially since we're on odds so a double kill is amazing for scum. I think they did it to set up lims on vax and guillo. DGB doesn't have to be scum for this, but if DGB blocked scum then the scumteam gets destroyed. I don't think DGB is town here.

[Infinity 324]

Noraa continues to contradict themselves. And I've already said why Guillo was likely Town regardless of the roleblock.

Hmm?

Me and mark absolutely could've hammered if we were the scumteam so that's not a possibility.

JV, I still don't think you have an explanation for n2 that makes sense. Noraa could've easily been roleblocked, meaning that DGB would have a fake guilty on her. So no killing or killing flea are immensely stupid if DGB is town and noraa is scum.

[Infinity 324]

Noraa continues to contradict themselves. And I've already said why Guillo was likely Town regardless of the roleblock.

Hmm?

Me and mark absolutely could've hammered if we were the scumteam so that's not a possibility.

JV, I still don't think you have an explanation for n2 that makes sense. Noraa could've easily been roleblocked, meaning that DGB would have a fake guilty on her. So no killing or killing flea are immensely stupid if DGB is town and noraa is scum.

I've already debunked that you posted 20 minutes apart, you could have not been online to coordinate a hammer so that's wrong and manipulative tbf. You expect me to have an explanation for where the N2 kill went? How am I supposed to know more than you, I know I have a clear on DGB and am making reads accordingly scum likely cross-killed to secure an easier elim on Vax.

JV listen to me. Say you're me and you're scum with noraa. You're going into n2. DGB is a town RB and it SRs noraa. In what universe do you no kill or kill flea? If there's a missing kill and noraa is blocked then she gets guiltied AND we lose our NK. It makes zero fucking sense.

Fair point about the mark thing I guess, but it seems like I could've just waited another 20 minutes for mark to arrive but /shrug

@DGB Why did you block guillo n2 instead of noraa?

[Infinity 324]

JV why was guillo likely town despite the RB? I missed it

[Infinity 324]

No no no no the crosskill was not accidental because math specifically told flea to target vax. DGB was hard SRing noraa d1, go reread. The idea that scum!noraa would risk that play is beyond absurd.

PEdit: I appreciate you too <3

[Infinity 324]

You were the only one that was reciprocating my read. What are the chances killing scum was blocked twice in a row, while a killing role does a kill was my logic from earlier. Go back to see it in more depth, you saying you forgot it when it was your logic too is concerning

Uhh I never agreed with this reasoning and it's a fallacy. If DGB is town it blocked the kill n1 100% of the time so the only thing to consider is how likely was it to have blocked the kill on n2.

[Infinity 324]

100% sure that if DGB is town here it's because scum literally forgot to submit a kill.

PEdit: see above, I'm 100% sure scum don't no kill or kill flea n2 if DGB is town. That would be certifiably insane.

[Infinity 324]

I'm not gonna make a case on mark, I don't think he's been scummy this game.

[Infinity 324]

I don't fully understand your last post

Assume DGB is town and noraa is scum.

N2, DGB is RB and SRs noraa. Math tells flea to visit vax, who is PGO. Noraa knows that if there is a missing kill, she is likely to be blocked and suspected to be the cause of the kill. Therefore, she makes absolutely 100% sure that there is no missing kill.

PEdit: I don't know who the second scum is