Yellowstone

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Sure has. It’s super late for me so will catch up in the am/after work.

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VOTE: Unvote

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Votecount 1.9

bad bear pun count

: 4

[5]Momrangal:

Marky Mark, DrippingGoofball, Infinity 324, Horsewoman, Toogeloo

[2]Horsewoman:

JacksonVirgo, Momrangal

[1]Guillotina:

Flea the Magician

[1]JacksonVirgo:

Vaxkiller

[1]Flea the Magician:

Mathblade

[1]Infinity 324:

AGamblingPig

[1]DrippingGoofball:

Noraa

[1]Noraa:

Guillotina

[0] Not Voting:

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

The elimination deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-22 12:35:35).

Did a quick skim this wagon is bad.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Horsewoman

Horsewoman and Toog based on skim of VCs

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How would it affect your noraa read if I told you that she definitely focuses/plays serious as scum?

That reminds me,
@guillo: How would it affect your read on mark if I told you he got limmed d1 in his only scum game on site?

I would tell you what I've told everyone here already. I don't believe in meta.

I believe and judge based on actions in this game.

Also, I townread Momrangal and she claimed Mason. I'm not voting there.

Good because you really shouldn’t

Math tunnels are feared and that wagon is bad.

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to add up Horse is probably scum fishing and a majority of scum probably on that wagon.

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Votecount 1.6

bad bear pun count

: 4

[4]Horsewoman:

JacksonVirgo, Toogeloo, Momrangal, Guillotina

[1]Vaxkiller:

Flea the Magician

[1]JacksonVirgo:

Vaxkiller

[1]Noraa:

DrippingGoofball

[1]no elimination:

no elim

[1]Toogeloo:

Horsewoman

[1]Flea the Magician:

Nono

[1]Guillotina:

Noraa

[1]no elim:

AGamblingPig

[1]Momrangal:

Marky Mark

[0] Not Voting:

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

The elimination deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-22 12:35:35).

Look at this here. This reads scum looking for literally anyone else.

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scum hunting?

Nah I mean fishing for a counter wagon

[MathBlade]

How would it affect your noraa read if I told you that she definitely focuses/plays serious as scum?

That reminds me,
@guillo: How would it affect your read on mark if I told you he got limmed d1 in his only scum game on site?

I would tell you what I've told everyone here already. I don't believe in meta.

I believe and judge based on actions in this game.

Also, I townread Momrangal and she claimed Mason. I'm not voting there.

Momrangal if she claimed mason I 99.99999999% believe it based on my past meta with her.

I’d stake my life that she’s a mason and we should elim horsewoman

[MathBlade]

I'm a mason hahahaha

Yeah this is likely legit

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Srs tho, I'm a second counter wagon taking off

Mason claim is a joke

I don’t think it is.

Momrangal is me but better socially. I don’t think she fake claims mason like ever.

If she is scum fake claiming/joking it would be way too high a risk on d1 with no pressure.

If the mason claim is a joke (which I really doubt) it’s a town joke not a scum one.

I don’t see scum Mom making that post.

Granted it’s been a year but it doesn’t seem to be her

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UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

[INSERT REASON HERE]

Naked vote possibly a bus possibly not. I’ll take it as VCA says Horse probably scum and sort you later.

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I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

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If the mason claim is a joke (which I really doubt) it’s a town joke not a scum one.

Is she more laid back as town/serious as scum or something else?

More just literal. She doesn’t like to lie and neither do I.

Think back to when I was scum with you in our linked sig. I didn’t like lying.

Momrangal is best as either alignment when she tells the truth.

It just doesn’t make sense for her to be lying and is probably a mason (most likely) or town joking. I don’t see the scum benefit for momrangal.

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I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

Rule of three says anytime scum list three names there’s a high likelihood one or more is scum to maintain credibility/gamestate. It’s not a sure fire thing but it’s more likely. I am still catching up but generally I look for things like that and see if they are supported by the gamestate

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o

VOTE: Horsewoman

why the backflip here?

VOTE: Horsewoman

Horsewoman and Toog based on skim of VCs

What about VCs enables you to be remotely as confident as you are about this

Because the wagons were split on the one VC earlier where it was you as a leading wagon and everyone else scattered. You dropping a vote on Toog means possible distancing if you thought you were going down.

Granted I do need to ISO Toog but the fact you don’t Unvote someone almost assuredly a mason makes you almost certainly lock scum

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Infinity I still need to sort but him disappearing without an Unvote is sus as well.

Mainly I think a majority of scum are on Mom and I would mind everyone there flipping

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

[INSERT REASON HERE]

Naked vote possibly a bus possibly not. I’ll take it as VCA says Horse probably scum and sort you later.

ISO me.

I plan on it when it’s not midnight

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UNVOTE:
VOTE: momrangal

This vote is hella sus

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I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

Rule of three says anytime scum list three names there’s a high likelihood one or more is scum to maintain credibility/gamestate. It’s not a sure fire thing but it’s more likely. I am still catching up but generally I look for things like that and see if they are supported by the gamestate

I don't think she'd name both? Too risky. Don't you think?

I don’t think so either. It’s possible though.

I want to do a VCA ideally with horsewoman’s red flip to verify my thinking.

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Infinity I still need to sort but him disappearing without an Unvote is sus as well.

I'm still here, mason claim is still a joke and mara will confirm that when she gets back. No idea why you think scum wouldn't joke when town would

I am telling you back off. Now.

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UNVOTE:

Vote horse

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Told you. Mom doesn’t fake shit.

Can we move on to elimming the scum that’s been pushed for a while and just not hammered?

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Horse is still town

Horse is still town despite voting a mason.

Funny.

Vote horse or you’re scum with her.

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I find it hard to post in a car so I’ll post soon, I’ve read that there was a premature masonry claim though

Correct mom claimed mason. G pointed it out and I know her and that it’s probably not fake.

Mason partner likely is going to hide it or not claim as horse should 100% be the wagon to avoid outing them if scum haven’t already figured out who is their natural ranger as a mason partner.

[MathBlade]

Horse is still town

Horse is still town despite voting a mason.

Funny.

Vote horse or you’re scum with her.

I don't like the tone of this.

What happens if Horse flips town then? How would you read Infinity then?

Let every player cast their vote without pressure, it's easier to sort wagons and vanity wagons out that way.

I don’t care if you don’t like the tone.

We’re elimming Horse.

On the off chance Horse is town infinity is scum TMIing

No way infinity townreads Horse keeping a vote on a mason. I just don’t see it.

[MathBlade]

Cool.

Then I will take that 30 seconds overnight.

Gun to my head it’s Horse/Toog/Infinity

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No way infinity townreads Horse keeping a vote on a mason. I just don’t see it.

Huh? I kept my vote on the mason claim too...

Yes you did, and you’re probably scum for it. Or at the very least not thinking which means your reds are almost certainly crap whatever you’re alignment.

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Normally when someone makes a statement, and then says "seriously though" immediately following that statement, the statement is meant to be interpreted humorously.

Normally yes.

Not for myself or mom though. We are usually dead set in our truthtelling ways.

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And you're expecting someone who's new to the site to know that?

Someone who knows we don’t use the L word on site anymore is not new to the site.

Horse has the hallmarks of an experienced player and I am treating her like such.

Mason is a universal “you don’t vote me ever” until and unless you can demonstrate why they faked it.

That’s across multiple sites as I have played on multiple sites under aliases.

[MathBlade]

Then when the claim is fucking demonstrated almost certain to be true you unvote.

That’s newbie 101.

Neither you nor Horse did.

[MathBlade]

Look at Math, feeling like a boss and scum hunting from a skim read, how adorables.

Got a problem with it? Take it up with my recent mason game where I was a mason and freaking outed the team and just didn’t push hard enough to get them. I will not make that mistake.

Horsewoman is scum.

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You have lost your go'damn mind if you think Horse and I are scum partners lol.

Horse wagon more than likely stalled because half the player list flaked.

Then I will fix it overnight.

And no.

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Hmmm. Look I'm down with flipping Horsewoman, I haven't been a fan of her. But imposing conditions on players for casting or not casting votes on players of your preference is not how I roll.

As per your reasoning:

If infinity does not cast a vote on HW, he is scum.
If infinity cast the vote on HW and HW is town, he is scum?

What if Infinity votes HW and she flips scum? Is Infinity town as a result? What if he is bussing and use your pressure to justify it on D2?
What if Infinity is town and still votes for HW and she flips town? Then what?

Let people cast their votes without pressure, that way, they have to own up to their decision.

I did that. Infinity failed to Unvote the likely mason.
I find that when you have a scum you have to elim them.
Then can go back tomorrow and see who resisted and why.
Some are town some are scum but you still get reasoning.

When you’re unsure on scum that’s when the votes without pressure works.

It’s inevitable Horse dies today. If you wanna play good cop be my guest but far as I am concerned Infinity is scum until he convinces me he is town. Too many indicators he’s scum.

[MathBlade]

o

VOTE: Horsewoman

why the backflip here?

VOTE: Horsewoman

Horsewoman and Toog based on skim of VCs

What about VCs enables you to be remotely as confident as you are about this

Try again.

I mentioned it’s likely not fake on 713 this is later than that. No Unvote.

Horse is scum.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade replaces nono

Maybe you should iso the mod for the answer to your question instead of making filler ones to pretend to hunt.

[MathBlade]

My method of VCA on day one when I replace in is to examine stalled wagons and why.

Horse wagon doesn’t stall there if she is town.

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[quote="In ]post 188, Guillotina"Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was dumb. I wasnt trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also wasnt discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions[/quote][/quote]

Where are your conclusions?

Pedit: Sounds like you feel you’re caught for the “wrong” reasons. Who do you think is scum? And don’t say me because you’ll lose that every fin time. Your wording pretty much slips I am town if you’re scum as I suspect you are.

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I think your read on Nora is off though

Why?

Its to my understanding that Nora is a cutesy overly excited kind of player... Like a puppy but in this game it doesn't seem over the top, and it feels like there's a level of focus and seriousness there. It's almost like she needs to actually some thinking in the game, and not make plays to redirect town votes, and plays, and cause havic.

There is something happening to cause this subtle shift in play at a subconscious level and it's that thing at that level that gives me my read on her

This post pings me. I get it if she's using other players as analogy, but noraa definitely does "get down to business" as either alignment. The reason why I think it might be scummy is that mara is approaching this personality-read with a lot of confidence for someone who doesn't know noraa, so I'm wondering if she misevaluated how much confidence town would have in this situation.

VOTE: mom

This is a decent argument for why momrangal might be wrong, but not why she's scummy.

Also I don't know Noraa either, but I think it's easy enough to tell she's cutesy and ovely excited just from this game's posts! No offense, nora.

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Pretty sure you knew mom was town in this chain.

You posted defending mom then with no other users posting you voted her.

This is a typical thing of experienced scum.

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Sometimes the reason a wagon gets pushback is cause the player starts acting town.

Sometimes it dies because they are scum.
This is inherently deceitful because you’re not displaying both possibilities.
You’re implanting the suggestion Horse is town.
It’s annoying because I do that as scum.

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Math is one of those aggressive types that throws everything at the wall til something sticks. It's a bit abrasive and off putting, but at least the game is moving again, and will probably be interesting in some way in the future.

Meh I am aggressive because imho you were going to miselim a mason.

Since coming back from my hiatus I’ve tried to be less aggressive but an almost certain mason close to elim and a scum wagon right there. You gotta be aggressive and push it through.

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I find it hard to post in a car so I’ll post soon, I’ve read that there was a premature masonry claim though

Correct mom claimed mason. G pointed it out and I know her and that it’s probably not fake.

Mason partner likely is going to hide it or not claim as horse should 100% be the wagon to avoid outing them if scum haven’t already figured out who is their natural ranger as a mason partner.

Why are you pointing out how to catch a possible another Mason.

...

Got some real osmium here.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

[MathBlade]

now where was I...

Aside from annoying people with my fluff...

*squints at their notes*

Also if there is masons (which I doubt), math is one of them or scum.

Can you like just not?

Like c’mon.

Thanks in advance here.

If you’re town this is something you never do. You just push me and say you don’t believe the mason claim earlier. Because this sentence if truthful is REALLY damaging to town.

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I find it hard to post in a car so I’ll post soon, I’ve read that there was a premature masonry claim though

Correct mom claimed mason. G pointed it out and I know her and that it’s probably not fake.

Mason partner likely is going to hide it or not claim as horse should 100% be the wagon to avoid outing them if scum haven’t already figured out who is their natural ranger as a mason partner.

Why are you pointing out how to catch a possible another Mason.

...

Got some real osmium here.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

What does having real osmium mean? It's an element from what I googled lmfao

Google it’s properties and what it’s special for.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: nora

Why do you vote Nora over horsewoman here?

[MathBlade]

Google it’s properties and what it’s special for.

Are you saying I'm dense?

Not that you are dense but you’re being dense but close enough.

And yes I was trying to call it out in a subtle manner.

[MathBlade]

I literally still have no idea what you mean lmfao, it's 1:20am give me some slack for my lack of working braincells.

Look at this when you have working brain cells then.

[MathBlade]

now where was I...

Aside from annoying people with my fluff...

*squints at their notes*

Also if there is masons (which I doubt), math is one of them or scum.

Can you like just not?

Like c’mon.

Thanks in advance here.

If you’re town this is something you never do. You just push me and say you don’t believe the mason claim earlier. Because this sentence if truthful is REALLY damaging to town.

Like seriously scumread me, fine, I can take it, probably never being elimmed anyway.

But I really don’t see how town writes that sentence and need to reevaluate my reads and resync my inner voice because way too many players are just being bad right now and I gotta figure out which are scum with Horse.

[MathBlade]

I'll have a re-read on Horse when I can but I generally tend to disagree with any case regarding "a lot of people are pushing this so it's scum pushed" unless there's a lot of other reasonings to not think they're scummy. Generally if a Mafia boi is acting scummy, their buddies will tend to bus just as much as they are to try and eliminate scummy town, at least from my experience.

This is false.

Scum bus when they get something out of it or it is inevitable. They don’t bus because someone is acting scummy town generally do that on their own. I have had really good scum games before. This may be how you play scum but a good scum doesn’t do that.

[MathBlade]

Google it’s properties and what it’s special for.

Are you saying I'm dense?

Not that you are dense but you’re being dense but close enough.

And yes I was trying to call it out in a subtle manner.

I'm not being dense by calling you out for literally outting a way to find a second mason. It was not necessary and actually somewhat irrelevant the point you were trying to make.

GO.......TO.......SLEEP

Then reread. It will make sense then.

[MathBlade]

Please stop trying to force your site’s meta here.

The VCA is very clear on this. Horse is scum or there is a deep wolf because of how many votes people have gotten prior.
Horse despite being popular again as an elim with a new set of people on her the old ones don’t want to pop back on.

Horse is almost certainly scum because of what I did before combined with how protown scum could look by elimming Horse if she was town. Scum not taking that means Horse is likely scum.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: nora

Why do you vote Nora over horsewoman here?

I think horsewoman is town. I think everyone keeps going back to that wagon and conf biasing it to confirm it.

@math

Nora and Jackson Virgo's chummyness concerns me. Jackson Virgo and nora talk at LENGTH, but he doesn't town read them? I actually think they both are scum.

If anything that would indicate TvS or SvT or TvT not SvS.

Scum usually don’t do enhanced theatre like that without provocation or reason. I am going to have to find where you say in context to see.

Vax explain why you townread Horse and why scum don’t take her free miselim (if she is town doubtful) when they could have easily done so under the guise of “end the day quick to hide the likely other mason”.

[MathBlade]

I think nora!scum would be playing "safe" this game tho after their last scum game. Hence why they are out in left field on DGB.

DGB is probably a good meta read.

A quiet DGB is a scum meta DGB unless it has changed its town meta to match its scum one.

[MathBlade]

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

Pfft this post is funny. you used my logic against Marky against Horsewoman. I find scums tend to like to repeat/paraphrase what townies are saying all over the place bc the townie's subconscious will be like ":O :OOOOO lets relate!"

Honestly a quick ISO of Mark should show u the shading pretty easily but since apparently you cant see, I'll go find them in a sec.

I think your read on Nora is off though

Why?

Its to my understanding that Nora is a cutesy overly excited kind of player... Like a puppy but in this game it doesn't seem over the top, and it feels like there's a level of focus and seriousness there. It's almost like she needs to actually some thinking in the game, and not make plays to redirect town votes, and plays, and cause havic.

There is something happening to cause this subtle shift in play at a subconscious level and it's that thing at that level that gives me my read on her

I dunno if this is very accurate but eh I am town here so yeah.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

Ur town play is trash then if that's how you think. OMGUSing is something nearly every newbie does but thinking it is optimal play is pretty bad.

I think your read on Nora is off though

Why?

Its to my understanding that Nora is a cutesy overly excited kind of player... Like a puppy but in this game it doesn't seem over the top, and it feels like there's a level of focus and seriousness there. It's almost like she needs to actually some thinking in the game, and not make plays to redirect town votes, and plays, and cause havic.

There is something happening to cause this subtle shift in play at a subconscious level and it's that thing at that level that gives me my read on her

Meta can be faked. Noraa and I played together in a couple games recently and i've seen her how she can effortlessly change her meta to confuse players. This is why it is wiser to judge her solely on how she behaves in this game.

You have 2 games with me.
One where I was town and mislimmed day 2
one where I was scum and limmed day 2.
Where's the manipulation, changing of meta, confusion, etc?

cko is special cuz their town meta matches up with votes not always making sense.

And yet I’ve been right in majority of my games

I agree with this to a certain extent. you have pretty good reads in Cakes large normal

This specific post, it's probably not AI but I feel it has to be at least somewhat. I just checked SirCakez Large Normal, and what she said is incorrect and I don't recall any other game with Noraa specifically in it that I had what they would call "pretty good reads" as I've replaced out of them in nearly all cases and the one I didn't I had wrong reads as it was early D1.

In the Large Normal they were referring to, I replaced out early D1. My reads were not anywhere near "pretty good" as the only scum I had "read" was Glitch, and I had them as a town-read. Noraa is either thinking of another game, which I want them to clarify immediately, or they're trying to pocket me.

Again, this isn't AI in itself if Noraa can back up her mistake otherwise I think it's a slip.

Jacko, you really think I take a game where you have trash reads and just be like EY THEY ARE GOOD. I don't understand why you find this strange. Honestly, lets say I was scum. Wouldn't I just be 10x more careful making sure that everything matches up perfectly? Like ... bruh.
You repped out day 1, yes. but all of ur TRs were correct. If I remember correctly, ur only wrong read was the SR on Nero.

Nora is a cutesy overly excited kind of player... Like a puppy but in this game it doesn't seem over the top, and it feels like there's a level of focus and seriousness there. It's almost like she needs to actually some thinking in the game, and not make plays to redirect town votes, and plays, and cause havic.

I see the exact opposite. Complete lack of focus, seriousness, or thinking, wrecking havoc.

When I was scum with her I was glad to let her roll the town with that BS. Here, not so much.

How am I "rolling town with that BS"?
Quote the posts that you dislike cuz you haven't expressed even a SL on me until now where u just state out of the blue that im scum now apparently.

I think Nora is town based on this post in her iso. Will do more when time permits.

[MathBlade]

I still am holding onto my Horse/Vax/Noraa scum-read. I'm not fully sure if I've actually explicitly said that was my scum solve aorn assuming three mafia.

ewww

It kinda feels like he’s either really dense town or one of my scumreads is wrong before and he’s trying to do anything possible to avoid voting horse.

Don’t know which.

Either way he’s making me question my reads hard.

[MathBlade]

Scum usually don’t do enhanced theatre like that without provocation or reason. I am going to have to find where you say in context to see.

Sure, dont usually. But it's nora and Jackson virgo, and they like to talk.

I’ll have to see it in context later but I really feel Nora town based on the start of her ISO.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE

Math has come out guns ablazing in the scumhunt since replacing noelim.

Infinity replaced no elim
I replaced nono

Townslip?

[MathBlade]

Math, did you sleep

Like 5 hours. Enough. Got work here in a bit.

[MathBlade]

I still am holding onto my Horse/Vax/Noraa scum-read. I'm not fully sure if I've actually explicitly said that was my scum solve aorn assuming three mafia.

ewww

It kinda feels like he’s either really dense town or one of my scumreads is wrong before and he’s trying to do anything possible to avoid voting horse.

Don’t know which.

Either way he’s making me question my reads hard.

1) I tend to be dense as a player yeah, but generally because I tend to be right when I stick to my guns. For example, recent mini normal where I deathtunneled scum and didn't let anyone stop me until I got burned out and they turned out to be scum.

2) Is that aimed at me I am not sure because aren't I voting horse? Also I'm a they if that is aimed at me.

Apologies I used the wrong pronouns.

It was aimed at you.

They are being really dense.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.5

bad bear pun count

: 3

[4]Horsewoman:

JacksonVirgo, Toogeloo, Momrangal, Guillotina

[2]LlamaMama:

Flea the Magician, Marky Mark

[1]JacksonVirgo:

LlamaMama,

[1]Noraa:

DrippingGoofball

[1]no elimination:

no elim

[1]Toogeloo:

Horsewoman

[1]Flea the Magician:

Nono

[1]Guillotina:

Noraa

[1]no elim:

AGamblingPig

[0] Not Voting:

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

The elimination deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-22 12:35:35).

Votecount 1.9

bad bear pun count

: 4

[5]Horsewoman:

JacksonVirgo, Momrangal, Mathblade, Guillotina, Toogeloo

[3]Momrangal:

Marky Mark, DrippingGoofball, Horsewoman

[1]Guillotina:

Flea the Magician

[1]JacksonVirgo:

Vaxkiller

[1]Infinity 324:

AGamblingPig

[1]DrippingGoofball:

Noraa

[1] Not Voting:

Infinity 324

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

The elimination deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-22 12:35:35).

Your assertion is imho unfounded here.

Assuming Horse town then I know I am town and am reasonably certain Mom is so the scum team would have to be all JV G and Toog and I don’t see that as a viable team especially since I townread G.

[MathBlade]

Vax explain why you townread Horse and why scum don’t take her free miselim (if she is town doubtful) when they could have easily done so under the guise of “end the day quick to hide the likely other mason”.

*shrug* Maybe scum is already on it. Maybe scum is scared to take a hard position (like nora on DGB).

My position on Noraa is a lot harder than hers is on me, but for some reason everyone shrugs off all the scummy things she posts... I was cheering it when I was scum with her, but she's pulling the same trick in this game, but I'm town thus time and I'm not having it.

It's frustrating.

What scummy things do you mean?

[MathBlade]

Assuming Horse town then I know I am town and am reasonably certain Mom is so the scum team would have to be all JV G and Toog and I don’t see that as a viable team especially since I townread G.

This is also taking the assumption that all scum are on Horse if they're Town which is a stretch.

I agree. My point is it’s a stretch. Vax posited that scum were on Horse.

I disagreed with that suggestion and was explaining so to Vax.

[MathBlade]

Vax explain why you townread Horse and why scum don’t take her free miselim (if she is town doubtful) when they could have easily done so under the guise of “end the day quick to hide the likely other mason”.

*shrug* Maybe scum is already on it. Maybe scum is scared to take a hard position (like nora on DGB).

My position on Noraa is a lot harder than hers is on me, but for some reason everyone shrugs off all the scummy things she posts... I was cheering it when I was scum with her, but she's pulling the same trick in this game, but I'm town thus time and I'm not having it.

It's frustrating.

I kinda worded that bad. I meant nora is afraid to be on a wagon (afraid to take a hard position, or a confident position if you will)

Meh let’s see how Nora reacts here.

I don’t get scum vibes from her

[MathBlade]

Then vote Horse with me

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade Yeah no one got scum vibes from her in Death Scroll either.

Link me for later?

And if no one got scum vibes from that game wouldn’t take make her more than likely town since people are getting scum vibes?

[MathBlade]

I think nora!scum would be playing "safe" this game tho after their last scum game. Hence why they are out in left field on DGB.

DGB is probably a good meta read.

A quiet DGB is a scum meta DGB unless it has changed its town meta to match its scum one.

DBGs activity is reduced sitewide I beleive

Good to know.

It can have a reprieve today.

Vote horse with me DGB <3

[MathBlade]

Assuming Horse town then I know I am town and am reasonably certain Mom is so the scum team would have to be all JV G and Toog and I don’t see that as a viable team especially since I townread G.

This is also taking the assumption that all scum are on Horse if they're Town which is a stretch.

Not really, in one of my games as scum at MU we all voted to yeet the same player on D1 exactly for that, because nobody would believe that all scum would be on that wagon.

It paid off, we won that game because wagonomic experts concluded we couldn't possibly be so dumb to do that.

That would be a black and white and would need context later.

As more flips come a narrative forms for wagon data. VCA is more powerful late game than early.

Never is a strong word but it’s unlikely here due to it would have to be an unprovoked bus and no other wagon took off.

[MathBlade]

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Stuff like this makes me think infinity is scum.

If he thought the mason claim was fake his vote is okay.

If he thought the mason claim was real why vote her if town?

I really just think it’s Horse+Infinity and maybe I was wrong on Toog.

I would wanna flip Horse to see if that assumption is correct.

[MathBlade]

Also, math, I think you pulled out wagonomics too early. Scum arent going to do crap now.

They might not.

But then it becomes obvious.

Win we don’t elim a likely mason
Win the scum become obvious

Win win we elim horse get a probable scum I don’t see the problem here

[MathBlade]

Ye gods this is taking an age to do. I don't have the attention span for this... what day are we on again? •(◐﹏◐)•

1.

If you don’t have the attention span vote Horse

[MathBlade]

now where was I...

Aside from annoying people with my fluff...

*squints at their notes*

Also if there is masons (which I doubt), math is one of them or scum.

Can you like just not?

Like c’mon.

Thanks in advance here.

If you’re town this is something you never do. You just push me and say you don’t believe the mason claim earlier. Because this sentence if truthful is REALLY damaging to town.

I like this squeaky boi ＼（＠￣∇￣＠）／

Then Unvote me and vote horse

[MathBlade]

Please stop trying to force your site’s meta here.

The VCA is very clear on this. Horse is scum or there is a deep wolf because of how many votes people have gotten prior.
Horse despite being popular again as an elim with a new set of people on her the old ones don’t want to pop back on.

Horse is almost certainly scum because of what I did before combined with how protown scum could look by elimming Horse if she was town. Scum not taking that means Horse is likely scum.

Care to share some of your VCA working?

I wanna see what you're thinking.

I did a bit earlier, will do so at lunch/after work.

[MathBlade]

OK only other question I have for you so far is why you think I'm scum reading you?


AAAAANNNND you know something, I'm hal way through an iso and it's freaking huge so I'm just going to dump what I've got because I keep falling behind.

Don’t know. Don’t care. Bad must fix.

[MathBlade]

Horse is still town

Horse is still town despite voting a mason.

Funny.

Vote horse or you’re scum with her.

I don't like the tone of this.

What happens if Horse flips town then? How would you read Infinity then?

Let every player cast their vote without pressure, it's easier to sort wagons and vanity wagons out that way.

I don’t care if you don’t like the tone.

We’re elimming Horse.

On the off chance Horse is town infinity is scum TMIing

No way infinity townreads Horse keeping a vote on a mason. I just don’t see it.

why is horse scum? just based off wagonomics?
cuz I've had multiple games where I was town and the main wagon on day 1 with multiple counter wagons and wagonomics killed me...

Look backwards at the VCs.

Assuming Horse is town then we have a deep wolf or two.

Unlikely but possible. Mainly horse’s flip does so much for the game I am okay with the risk even if town.

Day fatigue will set in soon so barring a “I am the ultimate PR that insta catches two scum” Horse should be the elim.

Then we know if deep wolves exist or not.

[MathBlade]

Cool.

Then I will take that 30 seconds overnight.

Gun to my head it’s Horse/Toog/Infinity

OOOOO I like this solve. it looks nearly identical to mine. Mine has DGB instead of Horse.

Mainly it’s conditional though.

I wanna elim Horse so as town we collectively know the gamestate

[MathBlade]

Why does horse being town mean there have to be deep wolves?

The most likely scenario with horse is that scum were ok with her wagon stalling since no scum was threatened.

No one else has gotten more than three votes at the same time all game.

The votes don’t support your theory of scum being okay with it though. They’d at least be somewhat more clustered or combining on a second/third wagon.

Town had no cohesion except on Horse.
If horse is town then Nora (or someone as skilled as her) is scum.

[MathBlade]

Problem is, there isn’t a good case on horse so scum hopping on the wagon have a hard time justifying it imo. Being the third person to jump on horse for saying she’s new to the site when she’s not new to mafia on page 3 looks pretty bad.

Oh so if you’re scum then you thought you couldn’t vote her if Horse is town.

Scum have had plenty of opportunities. It seems odd they wouldn’t want Horse.

[MathBlade]

If we have a vigilante, I recommend shooting in the low-posters to clear the null-tier. The scummy players and the townie players sort themselves out more or less where I've seen null tier stay null and loses us the game.

Vig should shoot either Toog, Infinity, or DGB.

If a vig exists shoot infinity.

[MathBlade]

Or if we don’t elim horse (which would be ridiculous) vote Horse

[MathBlade]

Flipping HW or Noraa would give us the most information and I do t townread them so im ok with either option.

yeah I still think this is scum. Infinity/Toog has to have one town. guillo is just too scummy.

Disagree.
G is a top town read for me.

[MathBlade]

Problem is, there isn’t a good case on horse so scum hopping on the wagon have a hard time justifying it imo. Being the third person to jump on horse for saying she’s new to the site when she’s not new to mafia on page 3 looks pretty bad.

Oh so if you’re scum then you thought you couldn’t vote her if Horse is town.

Scum have had plenty of opportunities. It seems odd they wouldn’t want Horse.

The way most people play scum d1, it’s about blending in and looking town. No need to take risks by poorly justifying a vote on a town wagon unless scum is in danger.

Stop saying what you perceive most do and play this game.

This game has evidence and you’re speaking in unverifiable generalities.

[MathBlade]

I take it back. I think the team is Infinity/DGB/Guillo

I pick you as scum over G every time

I town read you both but that’s a really bad take. (Except if horse is town you’re probably scum)

[MathBlade]

This game has evidence and you’re speaking in unverifiable generalities.

How is “the wagon stalled therefore horse is scum” not an unverifiable generality??

It’s verifiable lol.

You can look up the wagon.

Scum generally X requires memorizing and citing so many games to refute it’s worthless.

[MathBlade]

That’s NAI Nora.

Good players town and scum poke everywhere. You’d scumread me every game for that. This is just a unique situation where scum is likely present in Horsewoman.

[MathBlade]

If we didn’t do horse I would do infinity but we really should elim horse

[MathBlade]

Noraa given that you’ve scumread me twice in the past and I was town I don’t think you’d be so confident reading me this time.

PEdit: Math, the “therefore horse is scum” part is the unverifiable part. I can probably find a ton of wagons on town that stalled d1 if I bothered. “Scum generally x” is literally how you play mafia, yeah it’s hard to verify but people can agree or disagree based on their personal experience.

Noraa, I didn’t feel the need to comment on the mason claim because I didn’t think it was a claim. If I was waiting to see what other people said, why was I the first person to say I thought it was a joke.

You can find those yes.

But that’s when you combine it with the surrounding wagons and the narrative.

It all combines to show Horse scum which is something that can be analyzed.

[MathBlade]

That’s NAI Nora.

Good players town and scum poke everywhere. You’d scumread me every game for that. This is just a unique situation where scum is likely present in Horsewoman.

I believe it is AI for newbies. Newbtown is much more likely to tunnel whereas newbscum is more likely to poke around and try to find a soft spot.

This is not productive.

We disagree. I don’t see myself voting G ever.

If you’re not voting horse push someone else.

[MathBlade]

Noraa given that you’ve scumread me twice in the past and I was town I don’t think you’d be so confident reading me this time.

I have confidence when I do. doesn't matter how many times I mess up in the past. Take golden for example. I've read him wrong three times yet I still have confidence.

Hmm, but you just said that other people disagreeing with you makes you doubt a read because of past games where others have disagreed with you and you’ve been wrong. Why does that not apply to individual players?

PEdit: you can’t come to any solid conclusions based on d1 wagonomics, especially when a good portion of the playerbase is absent.

I’m gonna stop posting for a bit to make it easier for people to catch up.

I can and have several times.

It works a good chunk of the time. And when it doesn’t it generates enough to go off of.

Again this is not productive. You’re trying to tear me down versus hunting scum.

Push someone if you disagree.

[MathBlade]

Hmm, but you just said that other people disagreeing with you makes you doubt a read because of past games where others have disagreed with you and you’ve been wrong. Why does that not apply to individual players?

One person disagrees. No one TRs u except math.

why are you trying to use something like that against me to begin with?

I don’t TR infinity WTF

[MathBlade]

This is not productive.

We disagree. I don’t see myself voting G ever.

If you’re not voting horse push someone else.

I think a Guillo wagon could go thru without u. I SR him hard and I want one of my SRs to be the lim. guillo is the most possible one today as DGB has no supporters and neither does Infinity.

It won’t and if it did it would be stupid.

Stop working against me please and we agree infinity is scum and push there if you hate the horse woman wagon.

I will fight to not elim my town reads here.

[MathBlade]

Would take a POE rn of Toog, Horse, Flea and Vax rn.

Nono is being replaced afaik so hopefully that slot will sort itself out by having a more active player come into it. I would, however, take Pig as a compromise policy elim if we don't get much more from them. I suspect we probably have enough consensus though for this not to be an issue.

There feels like there has been a lot of unnecessary abrasiveness in some recent posts and perhaps is just new players changing the vibe, but I really hope this game doesn't descend into a slanging match like Bending did :S

I am nono.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE

Math has come out guns ablazing in the scumhunt since replacing noelim.

Pig posted here thus unavailable for prod

[MathBlade]

As much as it’s beneficial anything that can resemble a gamestate can’t be prodded otherwise a mod has to make a judgment as to what content is. It’d be undue mod interference.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: flea

Flea, sorry if you’re town and I’m upsetting you by saying this. But the energy sorta feels like an excuse when you’re sure mara is scum and you don’t want to push her.

Nah Flea is TWTBAW.

Flea’s probably town here.

Infinity is still scum.

[MathBlade]

Math can you not do the thing where you enter the game and have one silly reason to SR me and confbias tunnel me for the rest of the game please

Can you like not do the scum thing where you rehash old meta to shade me?

Recent game I have been a town mason who sussed out the whole team and did not.

Oh wait you’re scum nevermind.

Nora Flea is pushing G here. That should tell you G is town as Flea is working off Mom scum which is laughably bad. G is town.

[MathBlade]

I'm working off what now?

TWTBAW means your posting is so wolfy you can’t be scum for it.

Your posting is pretty bad flea.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: flea

Flea, sorry if you’re town and I’m upsetting you by saying this. But the energy sorta feels like an excuse when you’re sure mara is scum and you don’t want to push her.

Nah Flea is TWTBAW.

Flea’s probably town here.

Infinity is still scum.

Did you turn into an owl for a moment while typing? （ꉺ▿ꉺ）

That ISO is my literal thought process as I've gone through it, so do as you will with it.

Honestly if Infinity wasn't suspicious at this point I'd be stunned tbh.

I am a human.

No beariness here. Or wings.

[MathBlade]

Faer how long have you played mafia and are you a fan of like fairies?

[MathBlade]

Okay well Faerie’s generally have a human interaction to be viable. Otherwise they don’t Faerie much right?

It’s the same with a mason claim. That claim will never sus out a PR. If someone else was a mason they’d discuss with their hood and pick one to CC as that’s inevitably a protown move. I was just recently in a game with neighborizers and I was a mason. Scum pushed it as a bad claim because of too much power. I am telling you here you’re wrong. Mom is not scum here...ever.

[MathBlade]

@math

I had a reason for thinking flea is scum but I hate how infinity jumped at that after I said he was. Ill bring it up later tonight, im not sure if Ill have the chance before I leave work.

Flea’s town. Much as I dislike faer play atm.

[MathBlade]

I'm sorry, I just can't townread fleaaa here. Playstyle is one thing but fae's blatantly anti-town behaviour is another. And furthermore I've read faer case on guillotina - it is

awful

. I liked faer case on me, it seemed genuine. But all of that analysis has gone by the wayside when fae is talking about guillotina. Completely artificial push. Fleaa has got to be scum here.

Flea is twtbt. You look to be shopping.

What do you think of infinity?

[MathBlade]

What Mathblade is clearly missing with his push on me is that scum like to distance themselves from early wagons on town because when they flip town, the scum get townpoints. Mathblade apparently has never heard of this idea.

No?

I'm not one for VCA myself but he and his sister are effective with it.

Also, scum wouldn't get town points for avoiding the first town wagon, most people don't get much scrutiny for joining a wagon, the only one who does are the people who are spearheading the wagon. There's a reason 3rd and 4th on a wagon is a good place to find scum

This and reasons would be examined. VCA isn’t 100% foolproof but it is a good method to find a read that needs to be solidified.

[MathBlade]

Exactly. Ideally we flip Horsewoman and if not infinity.

Anyone doing anything else is contributing to apathy here.

Let’s just get through day one then if whoever we elim flips scum we keep going to the next one.

Then mop up from there.

[MathBlade]

I'm sorry, I just can't townread fleaaa here. Playstyle is one thing but fae's blatantly anti-town behaviour is another. And furthermore I've read faer case on guillotina - it is

awful

. I liked faer case on me, it seemed genuine. But all of that analysis has gone by the wayside when fae is talking about guillotina. Completely artificial push. Fleaa has got to be scum here.

Bleeergh

I didn't read the case on Guillotina. Why is it awful? Maybe I'm wrong about Flea.

It’s TWBTW.

[MathBlade]

It’s definitely a hoot hollering of a time. That’s for sure but it’s more comedy imho.

I surely don’t take it seriously at all.

[MathBlade]

what does twbtw stand for

Too Wolfy to be a wolf.

Aka flea is so scummy faer can’t be scum.

[MathBlade]

A lot of people saying 'we should flip someone just for information'. Anti-town moindset in my opinion, always try to get scum from day 1 because this is our only opportunity. Also the information gained from people flipping is usually garbage and unreliable.

Coincidentally I also think you’re scum.

[MathBlade]

I just don't think people like me doing my thing

Like genuinely I get something like this in ever game xD
"You're weird"
"your tones off"
"TSTBS!"

When you’re thing is anti town yes. Tbf I think you were good until you shaded the mason claim. Then scum wanted you as an elim. I don’t like it but I don’t scumread you for it except in a rare circumstance which will solve itself.

[MathBlade]

Then help us get a flip

Horsewoman, explain why you are picking on me?

Both MathBlade and Monrangal are saying we should have a flip. I just said I'll try.

Are you misunderstanding something?

momrangal is confirmed town due to claim. mathblade is pushing to flip people who he actually scumreads. you aren't. it's still an anti-town behaviour/thing to say for all three of you.

It’s really not.

Town apathy will set in soon. You’re my top scumread. You give info and you have a lot of votes. If I am wrong then I have time to fix it or I am dead over a claimed mason which FoS’s infinity and/or Horse

[MathBlade]

If you're genuinely worried about being a toxic presence, I certainly don't find you one.

That looks like incredibly falsified frustration/indignation though.

Why do you think infinity is sheeping you?

And it seems stressed but fine.

[MathBlade]

If you're genuinely worried about being a toxic presence, I certainly don't find you one.

That looks like incredibly falsified frustration/indignation though.

Why do you think infinity is sheeping you?

And it seems stressed but fine.

infinity is someone i need to give an ISO. but my first instinct is that he is sheeping me on certain takes because he finds those opinions good?

I’d suggest doing that now because if you’re town he’s doing a damn fine job at making you look scum together.

[MathBlade]

Hmmmm that was an interesting little snippet to read. Question is, what do I do about it...

Nornor do I go heart or brain?

I don’t know what nornor means but I would say explain both.

[MathBlade]

wouldn't scum be less blatant about it if i was also scum?

I am weird. I am an “acquired” taste so to speak. So if you and infinity are scum you probably think you’re not being blatant. Sometimes I’ve been told I am “moon logicky” similar to my sister Titus.

[MathBlade]

wouldn't scum be less blatant about it if i was also scum?

I am weird. I am an “acquired” taste so to speak. So if you and infinity are scum you probably think you’re not being blatant. Sometimes I’ve been told I am “moon logicky” similar to my sister Titus.

He's being very blatant about sheeping me, which I have noticed. I certainly don't think he would tie himself to me so clearly if we were both scum. Maybe he is and he's trying to pocket me or something. But I'm not sure.

Isn’t that synergy worth pursuing when your neck is on the line if you’re town and a lot of people scumread Infinity?

[MathBlade]

wouldn't scum be less blatant about it if i was also scum?

I am weird. I am an “acquired” taste so to speak. So if you and infinity are scum you probably think you’re not being blatant. Sometimes I’ve been told I am “moon logicky” similar to my sister Titus.

Yeah I got that vibe, its why I tested your squeaker (ง ˙o˙)ว

Squeak Squeak my shoes squeak. But trust me I am good with townreads
Scumreads are always being refined.

[MathBlade]

wouldn't scum be less blatant about it if i was also scum?

I am weird. I am an “acquired” taste so to speak. So if you and infinity are scum you probably think you’re not being blatant. Sometimes I’ve been told I am “moon logicky” similar to my sister Titus.

He's being very blatant about sheeping me, which I have noticed. I certainly don't think he would tie himself to me so clearly if we were both scum. Maybe he is and he's trying to pocket me or something. But I'm not sure.

Isn’t that synergy worth pursuing when your neck is on the line if you’re town and a lot of people scumread Infinity?

don't know what you mean. but yes i am trying to eliminate dgb with him, absolutely.

You seem unsure if infinity is town or scum.

Why are you working with someone you’re not sure of, instead of working with your townreads to sort and/or elim him?

Infinity is much more likely of an elim than DGB.

[MathBlade]

I wouldn’t say I’m sheeping horse, I agreed with the mara scumread for my own reason and voted DGB before she started pushing it.

Why would it matter if you’re sheeping or not if you’re town and horse is town?

If you’re not sure on horse why not sort horse?

Y’all being so chum when you “don’t know” is weird.

[MathBlade]

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

I agree with the “you don’t want to elim her today” part.
Let’s assume you’re town:

The obstacle you have is you have to convince six people (one of whom is very loud and obnoxious *cough*me*cough*) to change their minds.

Unless you think a majority of scum are on Horse already if you succeed that will inevitably have most of the scum. Which makes whoever you push likely town.

[MathBlade]

wouldn't scum be less blatant about it if i was also scum?

I am weird. I am an “acquired” taste so to speak. So if you and infinity are scum you probably think you’re not being blatant. Sometimes I’ve been told I am “moon logicky” similar to my sister Titus.

He's being very blatant about sheeping me, which I have noticed. I certainly don't think he would tie himself to me so clearly if we were both scum. Maybe he is and he's trying to pocket me or something. But I'm not sure.

Isn’t that synergy worth pursuing when your neck is on the line if you’re town and a lot of people scumread Infinity?

don't know what you mean. but yes i am trying to eliminate dgb with him, absolutely.

You seem unsure if infinity is town or scum.

Why are you working with someone you’re not sure of, instead of working with your townreads to sort and/or elim him?

Infinity is much more likely of an elim than DGB.

I don't think there's all that much enthusiasm for eliming infinity outside of yourself. You don't run everything.

Correct I don’t run everything.

But I can keep my vote on you until the end of the day and explain how you’re shopping.

I have the advantage here. You seem to only want to sort easily miselims.

It becomes pretty straightforward at that point.

[MathBlade]

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

I agree with the “you don’t want to elim her today” part.
Let’s assume you’re town:

The obstacle you have is you have to convince six people (one of whom is very loud and obnoxious *cough*me*cough*) to change their minds.

Unless you think a majority of scum are on Horse already if you succeed that will inevitably have most of the scum. Which makes whoever you push likely town.

I want to at least force scum to make a choice. If there’s no wagon on scum, VCA later doesn’t mean anything. I’m gonna push scum until it’s time to compromise.

VCA when there’s one wagon and split wagons like this does tell a story. And it’s time to compromise.

[MathBlade]

We have what is likely an outer mason here and the other probably needs to stay hidden. The last thing we should do is prolong this day.

[MathBlade]

Say every major wagon today flips town. That gives us nothing because scum can be on or off any wagon since town is getting limmed no matter what. It’s not time to compromise until 2 days left in deadline imo.

Then that tells us we have a deep wolf as I said earlier.

A time to compromise is not some artificial number, it’s when is it best for town.

[MathBlade]

If you haven’t figured it out yet, I am not posting for you.

I am posting for everyone else to see how antitown you are.

Still hanging onto a hope of an miselim somewhere when towns always should consolidate fast after a mason claim.

That’s like town 101.

[MathBlade]

what does twbtw stand for

haven't we already been over this?

We have.

*Deep hypnosis voice* Come join the Horsewoman wagon...we have trail rations*end deep hypnosis voice*

[MathBlade]

I am on mobile right now by infinity iso feels more like walking on eggshells around the other players.

I see mollifying other players, weak attacks, tip toeing around. More a supplicant than a scumhunter.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

SCUMTHEATRE DGBxInfinity edition

I could buy HorsexInfinityxDGB

Come join us on horse

[MathBlade]

it also just so happens that your flip will be highly informative

I don't really care what u claim but Math is not on the chopping block today.

Uhm okay good? Pretty sure mom’s speaking about horse.

Pretty sure I’ve obvTowned so I am being forceful here as mom or I die tonight. Then the other of us unless scum find a better kill. So I have to force my wishes now to have an impact at all.

[MathBlade]

wouldn't scum be less blatant about it if i was also scum?

I am weird. I am an “acquired” taste so to speak. So if you and infinity are scum you probably think you’re not being blatant. Sometimes I’ve been told I am “moon logicky” similar to my sister Titus.

Momma bear Titus is ur sister?!!??!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!??!?! *GASP* WUT

Titus is my sister yes.

She uses her same name or a similar one on other sites.

I however do not to maintain anonymity. Works out well.

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I’m playing more aggressive than usual actually.

....no ur just jumping wagons more. tho I can *kinda* see the aggressiveness.
Honestly, I've been so moody lately its not even ok how many hissy fits I've thrown in games :/

momrangal is confirmed town due to claim.

disagree but go on.

Coulda fooled me.

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Titus is my sister yes.

She uses her same name or a similar one on other sites.

I however do not to maintain anonymity. Works out well.

:OOOOOOOOOOOOO MOMMA BEAR TITUS' BROTHER
Ur like my uncle bear then :OOOOO

Sure I will be your uncle in spirit. I don’t roar but I shall give you bear hugs when asked.

[MathBlade]

I think horse is kinda scummy and don't really agree with most of what they say but its not anything too crazy and I SR others far more so she isn't really in consideration unless all my scum pool somehow flips green

The mason claim may be outed to scum if you do that.

That’s why we should consolidate on horse. I get she’s not your top scumread but I mean is it worth possibly outing the other mason?

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Sure I will be your uncle in spirit. I don’t roar but I shall give you bear hugs when asked.

a deal is a deal
now u sign dis contract which says u are RESPONSIBLE for keeping smol bear Noraa from wandering off and getting eaten by alligators. U are also responsible for posting bear gifs whenever smol bear Noraa is sad

Imma needy smol bear

https://imgur.com/gallery/KecYy7Q

Your wish is my command.

Best way to not get eaten by alligators is to remove the alligators.

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The mason claim may be outed to scum if you do that.

no?

Yes. The longer this goes on the more time and posts scum have to piece together the other masons assuming Mom’s claim is true. It’s really not worth it when there’s a scummy person at l-2 for how long now? Feels like forever

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I’m ok with the risk of outing a mason, there’s always a risk of outing a PR on d1. I do think that we should tend towards running up someone who was on mara’s wagon if they’re about equally scummy.

Ooooh so Horse! *smiles*

[MathBlade]

The mason claim may be outed to scum if you do that.

no?

Yes. The longer this goes on the more time and posts scum have to piece together the other masons assuming Mom’s claim is true. It’s really not worth it when there’s a scummy person at l-2 for how long now? Feels like forever

I mean if the masons really end up being a super scummy person(I'm assuming since we'd have to run them up to E-1 and they'd be pretty scummy for that to happen), they might just be scum and we can deal with that with whatever investigative prs we have(I'm assuming we do) tonight.

The danger isn’t that they get ran up.
It’s that they get shot without being heard.

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The danger isn’t that they get ran up.
It’s that they get shot without being heard.

I don't understand? Like if they get shot, that's that and we look at their ISO cuz there isn't anything we can do to prevent it, no?

Assuming there’s no cuddly wuddly protective animals no then they end up shot reads ignored like a sad mason claim that never got to out. Then people stay stuck in their ways and don’t listen to the sad other mason claim.

That would be a sad day

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That’s why you elim quickly force scum to shoot at the outed mason who is likely protected

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Assuming there’s no cuddly wuddly protective animals no then they end up shot reads ignored like a sad mason claim that never got to out. Then people stay stuck in their ways and don’t listen to the sad other mason claim.

That would be a sad day

Im not sure if this is allowed but I figured I'd suggest and if its not allowed, ignore me.
Can Mom crumb who the partner is? Like in some unnoticeable way that the partner can later pick together?

I am pretty sure mom has/would. I trust she’s good.

I trust the other masons would too.

Crumbing is allowed on the site.

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Mason(s) autocorrect bad.

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I can’t read the green. Can you tldr what your opinion was on Flavor Leaf?

[MathBlade]

I can’t read the green. Can you tldr what your opinion was on Flavor Leaf?

I mean Flea sorry.

Brain fart

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Assuming there’s no cuddly wuddly protective animals no then they end up shot reads ignored like a sad mason claim that never got to out. Then people stay stuck in their ways and don’t listen to the sad other mason claim.

That would be a sad day

Im not sure if this is allowed but I figured I'd suggest and if its not allowed, ignore me.
Can Mom crumb who the partner is? Like in some unnoticeable way that the partner can later pick together?

I am pretty sure mom has/would. I trust she’s good.

I trust the other masons would too.

Crumbing is allowed on the site.

I wasn't sure if this counted as a trust tell tho to crumb a mason partners name? Idk how trust tells work honestly lmfao.

Trust tells are saying “I only RVS vote myself as town” then intentionally and repeatedly only RVS vote yourself as town. This way if pressured you go “Look I am town I RVS’d myself”. It’s intentionally verifying yourself through meta. There’s a good example back in Team Mafia 2020. Lemme find it.

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Trust tells are saying “I only RVS vote myself as town” then intentionally and repeatedly only RVS vote yourself as town. This way if pressured you go “Look I am town I RVS’d myself”. It’s intentionally verifying yourself through meta. There’s a good example back in Team Mafia 2020. Lemme find it.

sometimes I say things like "I wouldn't be tunneling rn if I were scum" is that a trust tell?

It would depend on if a player actively and intentionally set that up and used it to try to solidify their alignment across multiple games. Self meta is okay

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11490587

This example is not.

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A general rule of thumb is if one can argue against the claim it’s probably not a trust tell and to be enforced you usually need both prongs.

Self meta (like Horsewoman’s can be truth or a lie).

[MathBlade]

Which is the way it should be. People should have to read you as any alignment.
I obvtown as either alignment.

But yeah horse needs to go.

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I can’t read the green. Can you tldr what your opinion was on Flavor Leaf?

Just change the forum theme temporarily? My forum skin is black.

I don't know what to say about Flea, they could just be too scummy to be scum, or they just are. The list had a very ill intended approach to discredit me and put me on a bad light. I'm not moving them out of my scum list for the time being. They get the Axe for now.

It’s a problem with my eyeballs

We need to converge G.

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Also after reading some posts from Horse, I'm no longer sure she should be yeeted. I need to reread her with a refreshed mind.

UNVOTE: Horsewoman

That long post drained me. I'll be back later.

Horsewoman is in my null list and I'd yeet Noraa, Toogeloo or Flea over her as of now.

Noooooooo



Sads.

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JV, Math, guillotine, Nora's aren't getting lynched today

I wouldn't think twice on a horse, infinity, toogers or mark but everyone other than 4 mentioned are fair game

Always stuck in second place. Sad

I am a sad little Mathy.

[MathBlade]

Give Nero page top please

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He's being very blatant about sheeping me, which I have noticed. I certainly don't think he would tie himself to me so clearly if we were both scum. Maybe he is and he's trying to pocket me or something. But I'm not sure.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but this is only my 4th game, what is sheeping?

Sheeping = blatantly following another person and/or recycling their arguments

[MathBlade]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Sheeping

This wiki is a huge help

[MathBlade]

With how long that sat with no viable counter wagons not so hot Toogleoo is like third level scum

If we don’t do Horse I’d rather infinity.

Any further than that is possible but sketchy territory.

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I don’t understand why you’re bailing on horse. The points are more prevalent now then they were then.

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I really think you just got played by this day lasting too long. This day should have ended much earlier

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Because Horsewoman is doing the same and has more votes.

If Toog gets that high I am not entirely opposed just right now the fact Horse hasn’t been hammered means she’s scum. D1 elims are not usually this hard on town. They just aren’t.

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That just means you’re good scum like Flavor Leaf.
Everyone knows it they just deny it.
I fuckin hate Charisma battles

Like people see it agree then go “No horse is town” and provide no reasons and case no one else
Then are surprised nothing takes off

It’s stupid.

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The case against horsewoman

1) Opening page 3 Example post

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Her opening was hella bad. She demanded someone do something to end RVS. This implies she didn’t want to think and at minimum sheep. In no way is this a protown mindset. She keeps falling back on “mindset” and trying to explain her actions Townie versus *gasp* being Townie.

2) Vote distribution post bad opening
Before Horsewoman’s bad opening the votes were split between DGB and no elim and some side wagons, typical RVS stuff. In the span of approximately 75 posts the entire board state changes.

Only five users (if I can count) kept their votes in the same place: Toog, Mom (claimed mason), DBG, no elim (now Infinity), and G.

Mom is almost assuredly town. This means unless you think majority of the scum team is in Toog/DBG/Infinity/G then scum reacted to the wagon and dispersed what was present.

This can lead to a few things (listing Horse town first because reasons)
1) One or more of DBG / Infinity are scum and capitalizing on Town Horse’s bad play: This would require an active deep wolf scum like JV or Marky Mark. Votes say probably JV if this is the case for a deep wolf, with Marky Mark a close second. Both DBG and Infinity were inactive during this time and couldn’t cause this scenario so you’d need a loud vocal player.

2) None of DBG/Infinity/Horse are scum. This would mean that scum are active and content with the gamestate. Following this up with 175 which is about the same number of posts but a wildly static vote count. This then branches off into many,many wagons in 378. A state of content doesn’t splinter and create a ton of wagons like that. If town is happy or scum are happy then whichever is leading begins a consolidation through actual votes or manipulating others. Instead we see a dispersal and a 4 person Horsewagon and lots of side wagons.

3) Both infinity and DGB are town and horse is scum. That means town was right in dispersing it’s RVS wagons and ending up on horse. Once the horse wagon picks up steam G plops on it, Horse moves Toog, my slot votes Flea, Nora votes Infinity and Pig votes for no elim (player or elim not sure). While expanding the list none of this is scum productive unless Nora and/or Pig are scum with horse.

4) At least one scum in DGB/Infinity and Horse is scum. This matches the game state a lot. A lone scum messes up in RVS, none of her buddies are online to save her and her only hope is to be Townie enough to not get elimmed. The way infinity sticks to her like paper reminds me a lot of 1841. Source in signature I believe if not next post.

—————

This type of wagon stall is VERY familiar

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85010
In this game I was a Mason and had adequately identified the scum team as FL,Alch,and Outer. Yet Town wanted to do the stupid thing and elim the guilty bringer before the guilty player. Two town immediately rescind VT claims and give scum a whole shit ton of ammo to hide in. Right as I am starting to fix back to the team I accurately had Flavor Leaf convinces Battle Mage to vote with Town beard Titus on NPOM.

At some point feelings and emotions HAVE to be taken out of the equation. If you feel so strongly Horse is town go back and look at the evidence and find who is scum and see if your theory matches the VCA/evidence. If you feel that Horse is scum go back and look at the evidence and who with.

Based on play combined with VCA this really looks like a Horse+DGB game.
Horse despite being a good player has an extremely narrow focus and doesn’t give reads and isn’t hunting for who is trying to sink her because no one scum is imho. All people on Horse are incredibly townread. Her hope is to just survive so she’s going “town mindset”.

Sometimes it is incredibly protown to be antitown.

I really think horse is scum and if she isn’t then we can look at who moved off of her and what wagons and look at JV or Nora.

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p8414122

Look at this post. “MathBlade looks pretty Townie” we were scum together

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I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

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The only fucking difference is pretty got changed to quite. If I had a vig i shoot infinity here and use his likely scum flip to tunnel the crap out of Horse.

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Look at that post: Scum infinity goes for low hanging fruit in Creature
This game low hanging fruit DGB.
DGB is really active which is unusual for scum DGB (there are some scum active games for DGB so not tell levels) but more often than not it is town here unless it’s with horse and infinity. The way horse and infinity are sticking together is very very unnatural.

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If you’re going to disagree please for fuck’s sake do more than “Not feeling it”. Please so there is something to at least go off of.

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I take it back. I think the team is Infinity/DGB/Guillo

I pick you as scum over G every time

I town read you both but that’s a really bad take. (Except if horse is town you’re probably scum)

If horse

is

town who would be your PoE for scum that's as skilled as Noraa. And who would be your PoE overall.

I see who hammers her and go forward and do VCA from there.

Pretty much horse solves soooo much of the game right now imho.

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I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

Sorry but i dont judge based on meta from other games.

Then what about the VCA from this one?

What does it tell you?

Give me something that says why you townread Horse instead of just “no”.

[MathBlade]

Cool whatever your results please elaborate and actual discussion please.

[MathBlade]

Cool whatever your results please elaborate and actual discussion please.

What do you mean with “actual” discussion?

Most of this game day it feels like is “I townread X” and “I scumread Y” and it’s all naked. There’s nothing to respond to so wagons don’t develop.

I may be wrong as I don’t “know” the solution but I “know” the solution in my heart and have attempted to describe it using this game and prior games. To have that effort ignored time and time again or set aside with a simple line or two (not just you) feels pretty demoralizing.

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This is something that at least gives insight on you and can hopefully help others see why I townread you. We need more posts like this. I disagree with the no meta thing but I get it as I used to be a no meta player. People please go into detail like G is when you post. Please.

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Toogeloo in the other hand, the posts of that slot does not give me town vibes and again, they voted Mom right after she claimed Mason.

I don't have a read on toog atm. I was thinking they could be scum because it feels like scum are in the inactives/blending in this game, but their posts are null for me. They also pointed out that they thought the mason claim was a joke. They could be lying and just using my reason as an excuse, but it looked so much like a joke to me that I don't really think it's AI.

Because Horsewoman is doing the same and has more votes.

If Toog gets that high I am not entirely opposed just right now the fact Horse hasn’t been hammered means she’s scum. D1 elims are not usually this hard on town. They just aren’t.

There have been so many examples of town wagons getting resistance because scum aren't interested in pushing the elim yet or some other reason, and then scum use that as an excuse to jump on or "compromise" there at deadline. The "resistance" tell is super overused imo.

Nobody actually ever follows up with these types of reads.

I mean not really this was an exaggeration but it's not as much of a scum-claim than it is just anti-town and scummy.

I see what you're saying, but there's only certain players who could get away with it. If I lolhammered mara, people would be super suspicious since I don't do early hammers. Some players (not_mafia, dunn) do it as town sometimes so they can get away with it but most don't do it as town and don't risk doing it as scum as a result. That's why I think there was no real risk of a hammer.

VOTE: noraa I don’t think you approach reads like this as town. Math does unfortunately.

Can you explain this Noraa read for me? I understand at it's core but I am not sure I am following exactly

The logic of "you were trying to lim the mason claim" when I thought it was a joke is really shallow and I think noraa can have a lot more depth as town. Then I remembered haunted village where I feel like she didn't really get a good footing in the game and all her SRs were people that were pushing her. I thought she was scum there and she was town. The way she's played so far doesn't feel like she's trying to get townread, and when she says stuff like "idgaf you're still scum" it feels towny to me. So noraa is a lean town for me atm.

If we have a vigilante, I recommend shooting in the low-posters to clear the null-tier. The scummy players and the townie players sort themselves out more or less where I've seen null tier stay null and loses us the game.

Vig should shoot either Toog, Infinity, or DGB.

I just fully clicked with what you said here and I am going to say this as blunt as I possibly can. Vigilante's shooting within scummy players effectively wastes town utility considering they're essentially a secondary elimination. Scummy and Townie players are much more likely to sort themselves given Town's default utility with day eliminations, null players however getting sorted through the night is a much more effective use of a vigilante.

I don't agree, I think the vig should shoot scummy players so it saves town an elim. Then we can re-evaluate null or towny players during the day phase.

I town-read infinity

Why do you TR me again?

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

Maybe that's just the word choice I use to state townreads as both alignments?

It’s not a tell. It’s only an indicator as I explained earlier.

It’s not 100%. The fact you called it a tell I think is illuminating.

[MathBlade]

Thanks for the explanation Math.

I think I understand the broad strokes of your argument, although some of the finer detail around the initial wagon forming on horse confused me.

I find it hard to see a world where horse is town and math is scum because I just feel like it would look too sus for him after he has driven the push on her so hard. That being said:

I really think horse is scum and if she isn’t then we can look at who moved off of her and what wagons and look at JV or Nora.

Worries me somewhat, because it feels like it could be scum setting up for chained miselims

I still think toog is flying under the radar here and I would really like to see more pressure applied there.
@Toog - as I have asked before, what reads do you have on the playerlist other than HW? If HW is scum, as you clearly think she is by your vote then who do you see as potential buddies?

That being said, if there is no increase in interest of eliming toog in the next couple of hours or so then I will consolidate onto HW.

Honestly, IMO probably the most AI thing that has happened today was the wagon on a claimed mason. Infin/Horse/Toog being 3/4/5 on that wagon probably has 1+ scum there, and horse and/or toog would be my most likely bets.

Why are you writing 90% of this post with horse as town?

[MathBlade]

Thanks for the explanation Math.

I think I understand the broad strokes of your argument, although some of the finer detail around the initial wagon forming on horse confused me.

I find it hard to see a world where horse is town and math is scum because I just feel like it would look too sus for him after he has driven the push on her so hard.

That being said:

I really think horse is scum and if she isn’t then we can look at who moved off of her and what wagons and look at JV or Nora.

Worries me somewhat, because it feels like it could be scum setting up for chained miselims

I still think toog is flying under the radar here and I would really like to see more pressure applied there.
@Toog - as I have asked before, what reads do you have on the playerlist other than HW? If HW is scum, as you clearly think she is by your vote then who do you see as potential buddies?

That being said, if there is no increase in interest of eliming toog in the next couple of hours or so then I will consolidate onto HW.

Honestly, IMO probably the most AI thing that has happened today was the wagon on a claimed mason. Infin/Horse/Toog being 3/4/5 on that wagon probably has 1+ scum there, and horse and/or toog would be my most likely bets.

Why are you writing 90% of this post with horse as town?

My underlines for emphasis (the second one especially) - please explain to me how 90% of the post sees horse as town?

The only thing I can see that you could construe that way is me commenting on your 1373 and that is why I used the words

could be

as people starting to chalk up potential scumspects for the next day is something that I have seen scum do before and something that I wanted to call out. Clearly if HW flips scum, and I think there is a good chance of that don't get me wrong, then this is completely moot, but I am going to call out stuff that pings me when I see it.

The first underline is exactly what I am talking about.

The good chunk of that post is going if Horsewoman is town. I wanted to know why you’re starting from that perspective.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Pig
That's what else I meant to do.

WAKEY WAKEY!! EGGS AND BA......PS?!?

Why are you so insistent on joining/creating wagons instead of the top three?

[MathBlade]

Would you rather I not vote instead of joining or creating wagons? ヽ(゜～゜o)ノ

I’d rather you describe why the current wagons are bad to you.

[MathBlade]

The first underline is exactly what I am talking about.

The good chunk of that post is going if Horsewoman is town. I wanted to know why you’re starting from that perspective.

It's not though? The first underline is me musing that it feels unlikely that you are scum and she is town. I really don't quite follow your logic here.

More generally, I think horse is likely scum, but I am not 100% certain. Me calling out you starting to slate up potential scumspects for d2 is not arguing that horse is town here, it is just calling out behaviour that seems sus. I am actually calling you out on a para where you're talking about possible suspects if horse!town, so it's a bit rich to imply that I'm talking about her like she's town off that back of that.

I am just tired and am having trouble explaining.

Where is the other half? Ie what if horse is scum?

[MathBlade]

I don’t see anything anti town about having reads.

What are yours?

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His reads are 'myself, the most active player and the conftown mason are town'. You don't see anything anti-town about that?

As I've said before, noraa hardtown, marky mark town, guillotina townlean, AGP null (but getting worse and worse), Momrangal obviously conftown (at least for now), Vaxkiller's entry gave me good vibes but I wouldn't mind seeing more from him. Scummiest players are toog/DGB/fleaaa

I haven't said any of that all in one post but I've expressed all those reads before, which is a lot more than toogeloo has done.

It’s obviously filler, but antitown no. It’s only antitown if you make it out to be antitown. I don’t see anything antitown about it but it is scummy.

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I agree that inactive/anti-town doesn't mean scum. But there are some alignment indicative things here.

More importantly Flea - if you doubt there are masons, then why are you not voting/pushing momrangal, as this would mean by your logic that she was probably fakeclaiming?

What would it serve? There's next to 0 chance that even if someone disbelieves the claim that they get support against it. Claiming a Mason on Day 1 is like claiming IC, but that doesn't mean it should be 100% believed. No other Mason is there to back up the claim, but they also shouldn't.

There's also a chance that he has reason to believe it's fake.

For example, a Cop and Mason's can't really co-exist in a game this size from a balance perspective, so a Cop my be inclined to think it's fake. However, it would be a disservice to claim Cop just to counter Mason's.

***I'm not staying Flea is PR, fishing, or asking for a Copy to come forward.***

Suffice to say, as of right now, a vote on mom does nothing because it won't have support. Mom could still be scum, and may never name a Mason partner for that reason, but today we can at the very least shop around for the rest of the team.

Isn't this post, defending fleaa and casting yet more doubt on the mason claim and also trying to cast flea as a PR, scummy in an alignment indicative manner?

Here are my current reads, you nazis.

Who I don't currently want lynched on Day 1:
Toogeloo
Momrangal
MathBlade

Who I don't care if they get lynched on Day 1:
Everyone else

Aren't these reads blatantly fabricated?

Blatantly fabricated, I’d go with no. Little to no effort probably.

[MathBlade]

Toog is definitely being anti-town but that doesn’t mean they’re scum.

If Horse flips town I want Toog plus infinity. I’d hard roll Infinity but it’s way too late for that.

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As I said 'His reads are 'myself, the most active player and the conftown mason are town'. It's not just low-effort (although it is), it's a low effort fabrication after being put under consistent pressure last page to give his reads.

Meh I don’t see fabrication. I just see he doesn’t give a flying duck. Maybe AI depends on what you flip tbh

[MathBlade]

It could be scum IDGAF or town but Toog clearly doesn’t care to give reads.

I kinda got a town ping a sec ago but it’s not enough to override the scum pings tbh.

[MathBlade]

I dunno. One ping doesn’t overlay a lot of evidence.

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VOTE: Infinity

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Infinity

Really?

Championing a Horse lunch for this long, now you want to vanity?

I wanna see something. Not sure if this has muster but it might reveal something

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Horsewoman

Saw what I needed to see

[MathBlade]

Oh fuck that looks bad for me lmfaoo, I'm a N1 vigilante. I am not sure where the hell the mofia kill went. I would have assumed the scum was within Momrangal, Toogeloo, DGB so I shot within the trio. If it helps I also softed vigilante with my vig talks yesterday.

How would you be sure where the mafia kill went anyway?

Not sure atm - I was rather hoping Math would explain his weird random infinity vote last thing on D1 yesterday before he hopped back to HW

I wonder why Marky is answering a question for Jackson.

And regarding your FoS I was wrong. I admit that. But now it’s time to hunt the deep wolves that caused the scenario. The odds were more likely she was scum and I take those odds every time in my spot. Day one is an incomplete day and now we can go back and look at who was being wagoned and why the Horsewoman wagon started and there we probably find scum. There were two wagons iirc that converged onto Horsewoman and idled. There had to be a reason for that.

VOTE: Infinity iirc No elim was one of the d1 wagons.

[MathBlade]

Actually no

I like this more instead
VOTE: Marky Mark

Either is fine though

[MathBlade]

Oh didn’t to me. I thought you were saying you weren’t sure what happened to the mafia kill.

Makes more sense that way lol

VOTE: Infinity

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If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

Can you please explain this G? How would you “gain” teammates?

[MathBlade]

And regarding your FoS I was wrong. I admit that. But now it’s time to hunt the deep wolves that caused the scenario. The odds were more likely she was scum and I take those odds every time in my spot.

That was not the tone you were using yesterday tho.

Like I could literally take my pick from your ISO but eg

Look at Math, feeling like a boss and scum hunting from a skim read, how adorables.

Got a problem with it? Take it up with my recent mason game where I was a mason and freaking outed the team and just didn’t push hard enough to get them. I will not make that mistake.

Horsewoman is scum.

Horse is almost certainly scum because of what I did before combined with how protown scum could look by elimming Horse if she was town. Scum not taking that means Horse is likely scum.

Your tone has now moved substantially from seeing her as "almost certainly scum" to "odds were more likely she was scum"

Correct. The wagon was stalling and we needed an elim that was not a likely mason. The risk if I was wrong was relatively minor comparatively. The way the VCA fell made it much more likely she was scum and her play gave me scum vibes until the end where I got a town ping. I regret her flip but I don’t regret doing it.

[MathBlade]

Like tbqh I thought horse was scum too and that's why I pushed there earlier on D1 and then last thing when it became clear that a toog elim was not going to be feasible. I fully appreciate this makes me look somewhat sus now. It's the change in tone from you and especially the setting up potential chain-miselims late D1 that I found unnerving.

I mean you’re more than welcome to try this approach but I think you’re gonna have egg on your face. It just becomes a matter of whether you’re derp town or scum here.

[MathBlade]

Also

FOS Math

for driving a wagon especially hard against what turned out to be a VT. I think a lot of us thought horse was scummy, but not with the massive levels of confidence that he had. As toog and I also pointed out D1, his late D1 posts setting out chain elims in the event that horse flipped town now look rather sus.

Math does look like he came to Momrangal rescue. I hope there is a cop and checked one of those two.

Momrangal mason claim seemed like she was joking at first but when she saw we were taking the claim seriously and asked to confirm it she said she never jokes about claims.
Math confirmed this and immediately took a proactive role in pushing her counterwagon which is what a town leader would do to save the mason slot from a misyeet. But the situation developed and a few flags rised.

1) We were not anywhere near the EoD, why did Math felt the need to defend her so much?
2) How did Math came to the conclusion that HW had to be the scum slot after claiming of just skimming through?
3) Why did he focus on HW only even after Momrangal's wagon dissipated. He never showed hesitation.
4) Why didnt he consider other counterwagons as options for elimination such a Toogeloo? Instead he proposed Infinity who was never consensus for elimination.
5) I worked hard to get townread by my fellow townies, so it is greatly appreciated when someone says that they townread me, Math did, but he never said why? Now is the time to tell me that Math.
6) Math pressuring others into voting HW, me included, whom he townreads feels a bit scummy.
7) Marky raised a great point when he questioned Math about he saying that he'd push people leaving HW wagon if she flipped town. Felt like setting up people who ever considered not voting for HW.
8) If Math is scum, he's been breadcrumbing association with me, when i called him out about it, he ignored it.


I'm guilty of pushing HW hard but i had my doubts. By the end of the day my gut was telling me she was town but my brain was telling she was scum. In one of my games i was so wrong about my gut suspect so i didnt want to make the same mistake here. I'm sorry Horsewoman.

1) Because derp quick hammers happen. I literally just got out of a mason game where scum tried unsuccessfully to do that when I replaced in as a mason. I generally have a good feel for masons and who their partners are especially here imho where the partner crumbed pretty well imho.
2) The VCA was very damning. I haven’t seen a stall for so long with almost no activity be town. The day was nearing apathy levels and I wanted to make sure Mom wasn’t elimmed. It felt even if I was wrong it was better.
3) That’s what you have to do on a scum wagon that’s stalled. You can’t allow scum to fish. Again I don’t regret the play I regret the end result.
4) I didn’t consider Toog because the VCA didn’t really line up that way. I also didn’t trust consensus due to the Mom wagon. It just didn’t feel right to wagon hunt and safer for Horsewoman.
5) I just get vibes when I work with people and my inner voice said you were town. At that speed level I go by gut and then reassess as night goes on. My inner voice agreed you’re probably town but if we don’t elim scum today to consider you as deep wolf tomorrow.
6) Again, so? I can take the heat. I did what I thought was best.
7) End of day felt SvT so pressure was warranted.
8) No I wasn’t. I assuredly wasn’t doing such with you. I don’t know how you got that idea.

[MathBlade]

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

Can you please explain this G? How would you “gain” teammates?

Where did i say

GAIN TEAMMATES??

Future self and teammates? Future teammates. It’s right there?

[MathBlade]

Like tbqh I thought horse was scum too and that's why I pushed there earlier on D1 and then last thing when it became clear that a toog elim was not going to be feasible. I fully appreciate this makes me look somewhat sus now. It's the change in tone from you and especially the setting up potential chain-miselims late D1 that I found unnerving.

I mean you’re more than welcome to try this approach but I think you’re gonna have egg on your face. It just becomes a matter of whether you’re derp town or scum here.

Are you threatening me lol?

Nope. Stating facts.

While I was wrong I am pretty obviously town still.

[MathBlade]

I was rather hoping Math would explain his weird random infinity vote last thing on D1 yesterday before he hopped back to HW

@Math - you were kind enough to point out that I had quoted the wrong point when asking this, but I would love to actually hear your answer

I was trying to see who would defend Infinity if anyone.
Toog ruined it by pointing out my hypocrisy. I was hunting third scum mode there.
So I went back to Horse as reactions would be tainted.

[MathBlade]

WALLPOSTERS: PAY ATTENTION

Oh fuck that looks bad for me lmfaoo, I'm a N1 vigilante. I am not sure where the hell the mofia kill went. I would have assumed the scum was within Momrangal, Toogeloo, DGB so I shot within the trio. If it helps I also softed vigilante with my vig talks yesterday.

Now that is VERY interesting and I may have some relevant information.

I am. Just trying to get something to develop before that.

[MathBlade]

RE: Missing nightkill

We need a massclaim.

Kinda against this. I don’t think we do.

[MathBlade]

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

Can you please explain this G? How would you “gain” teammates?

Where did i say

GAIN TEAMMATES??

Future self and teammates? Future teammates. It’s right there?

No. My future self and my teammates. Who are the teammates who would need to search for my ISO should they ever need my legacy?

Yay speed reading at midnight fun!

I gotta work now but this is what happens when I speed post.

[MathBlade]

RE: Missing nightkill

We need a massclaim.

Kinda against this. I don’t think we do.

At least lemme reset my inner voice before demanding something so brash and likely dumb. I don’t think it will agree either.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Marky Mark

Just swapping back to gut part two.

Leave your questions G. Will respond as I can. I am incredibly nervous about something you said and I want time to formulate my thoughts on if it’s protown to even mention.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: DGB

Can we talk about why a bunch of people (including DGB itself) were suddenly confident in horse-scum when DGB got a wagon?

VOTE: Infinity

This also works.

[MathBlade]

Either or is good.

Actually VOTE: Marky Mark

Gaaaah so many pings.

[MathBlade]

A massclaim on day 2? That seems scummy.

Is that scummy?

For DGB no.
Anti town to explain
In general yes.

[MathBlade]

What is your case on me Math?

Will type it up later. Can’t at work