Yellowstone

[Guillotina]

Whaaaaaaats suuuuuup!

I'm here to rock your worlds yo!

[Guillotina]

My name is not Joseph! How dare you!

[Guillotina]

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Guillotina!!!! Ooooweeee

Yaaaah! I'm here to lighten your days yo!

Make your days grand while killing scum!

[Guillotina]

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

New to the forum right?

MINE

Yah, new to the forum.

VOTE: No Elim. But not like the user no elim, like a vote to not elim

VOTE: No elim

Ok. Are you new to the forum or pretending to be new to the forum?

very sad! low energy! lame!

This denotes excitement, wants to get the game going. Horsewoman, it's a 10-day Day phase game.

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

You were bored and you are probably used to fast games.

To some extent, sure. It wasn't entirely serious in tone because I rarely am.

Yah, you've been fucking around.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Not necessarily

[Guillotina]

*finger cracking*

Lets freaking do this.

Spoiler: 2

Get used to these, amma do my thang here.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Is this an alt?

Btw I am super gutted about the flavour. I thought it was going to be the town as bears with guns and the scum as the park rangers (like Yogie Bear kinda)

Unlucky there booboo! No pinching of the a pic-a-nic baskets for yoou! (☆Θ艸Θ)

MINE

You betrayed poor Nero :c

Therefore you must be scum!

I approve of this logic (•́⌄•́๑)૭✧

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

You just did.

Spoiler: 3

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

THEN PUT SOME LIFE INTO IT! ARE YOU A MAD DOCTOR OR NOT!?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe you've hit a bearier when you
cannot understand my bearfaced bear puns, what an embearassing revelation for you.

Go eat some Strawbearies and hope to gain some grip on your unbearable reality.

Get in the bin.

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

Apologies for needing to sleep Anyways, I thought you'd be appreciating a slower-paced game after the whirlwind that was Bending

Sleep is for scum. VOTE: Markiplier

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

Ooof. (ʘᗩʘ')

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

⌈O ▂▂ O⌉

Spoiler: 4

JacksonVirgo, how much do you actually think Horsewoman is scum, and how much is your vote for pressure's sake?

Me answering this question would immediately remove all of the pressure if my vote

is

for pressure and what's even the use of this question?

Agreed.

Fine, I'll go through both possibilities before you answer then. I would have rather had it the other way round so I could have a better understanding of your perspective first, but *shrug*

In 68, Horsewoman says she doesn't have any reads yet. This means she probably won't have much to offer when pressured. So why does JV choose to pressure there right afterwards? It's a lead doomed to dry up, since Horsewoman has already said she's come up short of any reads. A pressure vote there makes little sense as a result, and I'm not sure why JV chose to push there right after seeing evidence that it wouldn't lead to much.

So I thought JV might actually think Horsewoman is scum. But based on what's been posted so far I'm not seeing it. My gut reaction to Horsewoman's posts has been town, and the evidence against her in 71 is fairly baseline - it's a lot about what town SHOULD be doing, but not really evidence that Horsewoman IS SCUM.

So tl;dr I don't think JV's vote makes much sense from any town perspective and is kind of doing the exact thing Horsewoman is being accused of: creating 'content' that won't actually go anywhere.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

This is interesting, as we're now in a loop. For D1 page whatever we're on this sounds far too certain. and more votes that are "doomed to dry up"

I'm going to head off to sleep now but I'm gonna say a few words before I do.

Llama's "read-fishing" strikes me as strange to ask as Town, it's like they're trying to fake content and see if my vote is real or otherwise to see if they can start pushing there as well. Either that or they trying to gauge the collective read on their buddy (and whether or not it's just for pressure) though that one is kinda weird to do objectively and I doubt they'd be that blatant as scumbuddies but it's a weird interaction nonetheless. Horse was blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from their posts by saying it's absolutely pro-town to hide behind the efforts of other players by claiming to have involved themselves with pushing the game out of RVS. Both are individually scummy but I'm trying to get a feel of whether Llama's post lead to them being possibly aligned or otherwise.

@Horse and @Llama

, do you have scum/town games under your belt and if so can you link a few?

Your other posts are ++TR but asking for meta on pg4 strikes me as a bit forced - particularly as this is nothing something I recall you doing in our 2 previous games together where you were town

Meta is trash!

VOTE: Llamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamaamamama

Not game related question. This reminds of someone whom i used to play with in another game, have you by any chance played “Immortal Conquest”?

[Guillotina]

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

This is the post of my main read, they're not even trying to post on interactions or anything. The game right now is on page 3, nobody would really have any solid reads at all but it doesn't mean we all just give up and let other's do everything. I first read this as a joke post as I've said, which is why I brushed off Marks read but then when they made that second post I quoted said that it was at least semi-serious and that's plain anti-town behaviour and I'm not going to let that slip regardless if they're Town acting anti-town.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

And then when I called it out for being anti-town behaviour they flipped the wording to make them look like they're actively trying to push the game out of RVS and solve and in extension discredit my case, they're blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from RVS. This is just straight scummy behaviour, what Town would twist the wording in this situation for their own self-gain.

Two questions, 1) do you think HW gave up and let others do everything?

2) In your experience, do all town members behave and act upon posts the same?

[Guillotina]

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

[Guillotina]

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

Not Mafia is a player on this site who has a reputation for not taking games very seriously and trolling as both alignments.

Oh ok. Thank you

[Guillotina]

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

New to the forum right?

MINE

Yah, new to the forum.

VOTE: No Elim. But not like the user no elim, like a vote to not elim

VOTE: No elim

Ok. Are you new to the forum or pretending to be new to the forum?

very sad! low energy! lame!

This denotes excitement, wants to get the game going. Horsewoman, it's a 10-day Day phase game.

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

You were bored and you are probably used to fast games.

To some extent, sure. It wasn't entirely serious in tone because I rarely am.

Yah, you've been fucking around.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Not necessarily

this is an incredibly useless 'deep dive' that goes absolutely nowhere.

Regarding your point about being used to short games - that's true. My previous forum had 72 hour day phases.

Nice try at discrediting my way of game solving.

First, if the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere is because the content of it didn't. Thank you.
Two, my deep dive allowed me deduce that you attempted to noobtell and miserably failed.
Three, makes me wonder why you tried to noobtell? Either alignment do this, but why did you?

[Guillotina]

*finger cracking*

Lets freaking do this.

Spoiler: 2

Get used to these, amma do my thang here.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Is this an alt?

Btw I am super gutted about the flavour. I thought it was going to be the town as bears with guns and the scum as the park rangers (like Yogie Bear kinda)

Unlucky there booboo! No pinching of the a pic-a-nic baskets for yoou! (☆Θ艸Θ)

MINE

You betrayed poor Nero :c

Therefore you must be scum!

I approve of this logic (•́⌄•́๑)૭✧

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

You just did.

Spoiler: 3

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

THEN PUT SOME LIFE INTO IT! ARE YOU A MAD DOCTOR OR NOT!?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe you've hit a bearier when you
cannot understand my bearfaced bear puns, what an embearassing revelation for you.

Go eat some Strawbearies and hope to gain some grip on your unbearable reality.

Get in the bin.

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

Apologies for needing to sleep Anyways, I thought you'd be appreciating a slower-paced game after the whirlwind that was Bending

Sleep is for scum. VOTE: Markiplier

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

Ooof. (ʘᗩʘ')

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

⌈O ▂▂ O⌉

Spoiler: 4

JacksonVirgo, how much do you actually think Horsewoman is scum, and how much is your vote for pressure's sake?

Me answering this question would immediately remove all of the pressure if my vote

is

for pressure and what's even the use of this question?

Agreed.

Fine, I'll go through both possibilities before you answer then. I would have rather had it the other way round so I could have a better understanding of your perspective first, but *shrug*

In 68, Horsewoman says she doesn't have any reads yet. This means she probably won't have much to offer when pressured. So why does JV choose to pressure there right afterwards? It's a lead doomed to dry up, since Horsewoman has already said she's come up short of any reads. A pressure vote there makes little sense as a result, and I'm not sure why JV chose to push there right after seeing evidence that it wouldn't lead to much.

So I thought JV might actually think Horsewoman is scum. But based on what's been posted so far I'm not seeing it. My gut reaction to Horsewoman's posts has been town, and the evidence against her in 71 is fairly baseline - it's a lot about what town SHOULD be doing, but not really evidence that Horsewoman IS SCUM.

So tl;dr I don't think JV's vote makes much sense from any town perspective and is kind of doing the exact thing Horsewoman is being accused of: creating 'content' that won't actually go anywhere.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

This is interesting, as we're now in a loop. For D1 page whatever we're on this sounds far too certain. and more votes that are "doomed to dry up"

I'm going to head off to sleep now but I'm gonna say a few words before I do.

Llama's "read-fishing" strikes me as strange to ask as Town, it's like they're trying to fake content and see if my vote is real or otherwise to see if they can start pushing there as well. Either that or they trying to gauge the collective read on their buddy (and whether or not it's just for pressure) though that one is kinda weird to do objectively and I doubt they'd be that blatant as scumbuddies but it's a weird interaction nonetheless. Horse was blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from their posts by saying it's absolutely pro-town to hide behind the efforts of other players by claiming to have involved themselves with pushing the game out of RVS. Both are individually scummy but I'm trying to get a feel of whether Llama's post lead to them being possibly aligned or otherwise.

@Horse and @Llama

, do you have scum/town games under your belt and if so can you link a few?

Your other posts are ++TR but asking for meta on pg4 strikes me as a bit forced - particularly as this is nothing something I recall you doing in our 2 previous games together where you were town

Meta is trash!

VOTE: Llamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamaamamama

Ok well im now 99% sure I have soul read on Flea and I think they're scum. Maybe will explain why later. A bit cautious treading in this territory cuz last I SRed Flea, they were town. Gimme some time to think.

Have you explained why already?

[Guillotina]

*finger cracking*

Lets freaking do this.

Spoiler: 2

Get used to these, amma do my thang here.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Is this an alt?

Btw I am super gutted about the flavour. I thought it was going to be the town as bears with guns and the scum as the park rangers (like Yogie Bear kinda)

Unlucky there booboo! No pinching of the a pic-a-nic baskets for yoou! (☆Θ艸Θ)

MINE

You betrayed poor Nero :c

Therefore you must be scum!

I approve of this logic (•́⌄•́๑)૭✧

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

You just did.

Spoiler: 3

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

THEN PUT SOME LIFE INTO IT! ARE YOU A MAD DOCTOR OR NOT!?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe you've hit a bearier when you
cannot understand my bearfaced bear puns, what an embearassing revelation for you.

Go eat some Strawbearies and hope to gain some grip on your unbearable reality.

Get in the bin.

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

Apologies for needing to sleep Anyways, I thought you'd be appreciating a slower-paced game after the whirlwind that was Bending

Sleep is for scum. VOTE: Markiplier

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

Ooof. (ʘᗩʘ')

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

⌈O ▂▂ O⌉

Spoiler: 4

JacksonVirgo, how much do you actually think Horsewoman is scum, and how much is your vote for pressure's sake?

Me answering this question would immediately remove all of the pressure if my vote

is

for pressure and what's even the use of this question?

Agreed.

Fine, I'll go through both possibilities before you answer then. I would have rather had it the other way round so I could have a better understanding of your perspective first, but *shrug*

In 68, Horsewoman says she doesn't have any reads yet. This means she probably won't have much to offer when pressured. So why does JV choose to pressure there right afterwards? It's a lead doomed to dry up, since Horsewoman has already said she's come up short of any reads. A pressure vote there makes little sense as a result, and I'm not sure why JV chose to push there right after seeing evidence that it wouldn't lead to much.

So I thought JV might actually think Horsewoman is scum. But based on what's been posted so far I'm not seeing it. My gut reaction to Horsewoman's posts has been town, and the evidence against her in 71 is fairly baseline - it's a lot about what town SHOULD be doing, but not really evidence that Horsewoman IS SCUM.

So tl;dr I don't think JV's vote makes much sense from any town perspective and is kind of doing the exact thing Horsewoman is being accused of: creating 'content' that won't actually go anywhere.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

This is interesting, as we're now in a loop. For D1 page whatever we're on this sounds far too certain. and more votes that are "doomed to dry up"

I'm going to head off to sleep now but I'm gonna say a few words before I do.

Llama's "read-fishing" strikes me as strange to ask as Town, it's like they're trying to fake content and see if my vote is real or otherwise to see if they can start pushing there as well. Either that or they trying to gauge the collective read on their buddy (and whether or not it's just for pressure) though that one is kinda weird to do objectively and I doubt they'd be that blatant as scumbuddies but it's a weird interaction nonetheless. Horse was blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from their posts by saying it's absolutely pro-town to hide behind the efforts of other players by claiming to have involved themselves with pushing the game out of RVS. Both are individually scummy but I'm trying to get a feel of whether Llama's post lead to them being possibly aligned or otherwise.

@Horse and @Llama

, do you have scum/town games under your belt and if so can you link a few?

Your other posts are ++TR but asking for meta on pg4 strikes me as a bit forced - particularly as this is nothing something I recall you doing in our 2 previous games together where you were town

Meta is trash!

VOTE: Llamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamaamamama

Ok well im now 99% sure I have soul read on Flea and I think they're scum. Maybe will explain why later. A bit cautious treading in this territory cuz last I SRed Flea, they were town. Gimme some time to think.

Why don't you explain now? And why aren't you voting them if you think they're 99% scum?

I mean ... ok?
What I meant is that im unsure of the conclusion that I came to but llama is basically a null town lean.

Oh so you have no other null-town or higher reads than Llama/Horse and myself? That's awkward wording Noraapoo

+1

How about you JK? Do you have any null-town or high reads?

[Guillotina]

Nope, and she won't for about 2 or 3 days.

I'm looking forward to this, honestly (((o(*ﾟ▽ﾟ*)o)))

Are soul reads equal to deathtunnel here?

[Guillotina]

Nah, seems to be some weird thing where people vibe with people they've played a few games and have an immensely strong gut read.

Nora's 2 for 2 on being wrong on me so I can't wait to see this one.

So she is 99% meta reading you scum?

Meta can be changed and faked. I do it for every game including this one, I will judge based solely on actions in THIS game.

But I will read what Nora has to say.

[Guillotina]

Mmmmmm.....

VOTE: mark

Why?

[Guillotina]

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

[Guillotina]

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

[Guillotina]

barely caring about other people's SRs on you(which is a newbscum tell that says they know the people SRing are right so they are avoiding)

Thinking about it, this feels like an inaccuracy - in my (limited) experience, newbscum tend to panic when people vote them rather than playing it cool like a more seasoned player. Not sure if you are stretching the truth to fit the facts here or have just had a different experience of playing with new players (entirely possible).

Btw - pagetop without even realising until I'd posted #oblivious #ImJustThatGood

This is inaccurate. NoobsScum will ignore and evade town that scum read them by instinct.

A noob town will panic because in their own perspective, they should be obvious town cause they are being honest, so when they get votes they panic because they dont understand it.

[Guillotina]

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

Not at all, just reflecting on my mannerisms ^_^ I am the universal parent friendo

Horsey is sus, but nothing significant as of yet.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

[Guillotina]

Fine, I'll go through both possibilities before you answer then. I would have rather had it the other way round so I could have a better understanding of your perspective first, but *shrug*

In 68, Horsewoman says she doesn't have any reads yet. This means she probably won't have much to offer when pressured. So why does JV choose to pressure there right afterwards? It's a lead doomed to dry up, since Horsewoman has already said she's come up short of any reads. A pressure vote there makes little sense as a result, and I'm not sure why JV chose to push there right after seeing evidence that it wouldn't lead to much.

So I thought JV might actually think Horsewoman is scum. But based on what's been posted so far I'm not seeing it. My gut reaction to Horsewoman's posts has been town, and the evidence against her in 71 is fairly baseline - it's a lot about what town SHOULD be doing, but not really evidence that Horsewoman IS SCUM.

So tl;dr I don't think JV's vote makes much sense from any town perspective and is kind of doing the exact thing Horsewoman is being accused of: creating 'content' that won't actually go anywhere.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Do you still think Horsewoman is not scum after her interactions with me? If so, why?

[Guillotina]

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

[Guillotina]

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

[Guillotina]

Scum reads have to come from somewhere, and I'm not fond of people picking on low hanging fruit

Who is the LHF here?

[Guillotina]

shading me for actively trying to scumhunt.

Do I need to quote the posts where u run around and shade people? cuz I don't see much scum hunting.

Yes please, post them, show us.

[Guillotina]

Lemme try that again lol

*AHEM*

Alright after all that and a reread on Mark, im feeling better about mark even though it may not seem like it due to my last few posts. Overall, im liking the answers he's giving and yeah!

UNVOTE:

Weird.

Show us where you thought Mark was shading people.

[Guillotina]

Weird.

Show us where you thought Mark was shading people.

Nah I liked his reply and now TR him. If he starts being scummy again tho, my walls of evidence will come strolling in in some tall high heels like clickety clack clack.

Maybe i was wrong townreading you. This is not how town proceeds.

VOTE: Noraa

Evidence of shading or i'll park this vote.

[Guillotina]

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

[Guillotina]

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

This is about where I’m at as well although I don’t think all three of those are scum together, I think at least one is though if that makes sense.

Yah i dont think I'm actually God of mafia and found 3 wolves in day 1. But those slots need to get sorted.

Horsewoman is obvscum! I'd yeet her first.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: horsewoman

Why?

[Guillotina]

I think your read on Nora is off though

Why?

[Guillotina]

[quote="In ]post 188, Guillotina"Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was dumb. I wasnt trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also wasnt discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions[/quote][/quote]

Curious again, i never said you did discredit me for any of those things, but if it is in your mind, it's because it's true.

[Guillotina]

[quote="In ]post 188, Guillotina"Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was

smart

. I

WAS

trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also

WAS

discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is

NOT

laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions[/quote][/quote]

This is what you are psychologically telling me.

[Guillotina]

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

[Guillotina]

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

[Guillotina]

I think your read on Nora is off though

Why?

Its to my understanding that Nora is a cutesy overly excited kind of player... Like a puppy but in this game it doesn't seem over the top, and it feels like there's a level of focus and seriousness there. It's almost like she needs to actually some thinking in the game, and not make plays to redirect town votes, and plays, and cause havic.

There is something happening to cause this subtle shift in play at a subconscious level and it's that thing at that level that gives me my read on her

Meta can be faked. Noraa and I played together in a couple games recently and i've seen her how she can effortlessly change her meta to confuse players. This is why it is wiser to judge her solely on how she behaves in this game.

[Guillotina]

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

Townie response.
A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

[Guillotina]

I answered inside the quotes. Mobile sucks for mafia gaming, so confusing.

My last post was supposed to say “Townie Response”

[Guillotina]

Did Noraa froze?

Horsewoman, Llama slot and Noraa is where I'll vote today.

JK, Mark. Whom you'd most likely vote to yeet here?

[Guillotina]

Helpful PC User EBWOP for him

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

Townie response.

Flea, are you town? Your ISO is more fluff than game solving as of now.

[Guillotina]

Has No Elim posted at all?

[Guillotina]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12424279]Ur town play is trash then if that's how you think. OMGUSing is something nearly every newbie does but thinking it is optimal play is pretty bad.

[/quote]

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

The irony.

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

Also, next time I would appreciate if you did take quotes out of context, that's a very scummy thing to do. Do not worry though, I will look into the original posts for context.

[Guillotina]

[quote="In Ur town play is trash then if that's how you think. OMGUSing is something nearly every newbie does but thinking it is optimal play is pretty bad.

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiasc ... 2]post 313, Noraa"]Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina[/quote]

The irony.

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

Also, next time I would appreciate if you

didn't

take quotes out of context, that's a very scummy thing to do. Do not worry though, I will look into the original posts for context.[/quote]

Correction

[Guillotina]

Spoiler:

Arguing over semantics is a classic scum play

You have an uncanny familiarity with mafia jargon for a new user in their first game onsite. Hmmm

Trying to look like you are getting the game to progress while expecting others to do it for you however...

Your other posts are ++TR but asking for meta on pg4 strikes me as a bit forced - particularly as this is nothing something I recall you doing in our 2 previous games together where you were town

I am also enjoying how JV follows up on my vote but your are SRing me and TRing him. Go figure lol.

This serious or no? If serious then why? If no, then why are you still trying to push RVS when the game is starting to emerge from that?

TL;DR - JV has either
a.) skimmed and not seen me already posting those points
b.) Is operating perfectly in synch with me or
c.) is trying to pocket me

Feels like between this and the meta tell on Flea, Noraa has been avoiding answering questions so far. Why the cold shoulder Noraa?

I mean yeah, but the logic of trying to take credit for progressing the game through making a dubious post that others then picked apart is stretching it a bit lol

Pig and Nono's 0-context votes seem sus to me, especially when we are getting beyond RVS

I checked all of the original posts looking for context and the only one that looked like shading was Post 81.

Everything else I saw as scum hunting or personal observations.

[Guillotina]

Had I descried his presence in this game, I would have opted for voting him.
VOTE: Joseph-Ignace Guillotin

No Elim reaction towards me is NAI.

I felt like OOC personal, not in game scummy.

[Guillotina]

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

you just called urself scum lol.

Nice try! I did,'t create the term dummy. It's been on existence since way before you started playing this.

[Guillotina]

Ok so

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Flea
Nono
DGB
no elim

Scum

Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig
Toogeloo

[Guillotina]

I'll keep my vote on Noraa, but i'm willing to come to a consensus with the people I town read to vote for someone else, as long as that someone else is in my scum list.

[Guillotina]

I'll keep my vote on Noraa, but i'm willing to come to a consensus with the people I town read to vote for someone else, as long as that someone else is in my scum list.

I like this.

"You can work with me but I'll only work with you if its in my interests!"

Now Noraa, see this? This is shading!


Flea, would you rather if i negotiated for a yeet in my town read list? How about in my null list? And why?

[Guillotina]

I'm on a lot of people's scum lists. Flea, you may need to bus me.

Do you scum read flea?

[Guillotina]

Now Noraa, see this? This is shading!

Got it.
"Everything that guillo says is shady has just absolutely gotta be shading"

See? You are learning what shading is now! You just shaded me too.

Now compare this shading and flea's shading with your wallposts of Mark's shading please. Then tell me if you still think Mark was shading in all of those posts you quoted.

[Guillotina]

@Guillotina
I am on board with 3 out of 5 of your scum reads.

Whom do we flip today?

[Guillotina]

I can't not say I won't read him not aligned with anti-town.

He's fluffy.

I agree.

You went up to null, because you are either a smartass town or God Level WIFOM Mafia.

[Guillotina]

Now Noraa, see this? This is shading!

Got it.
"Everything that guillo says is shady has just absolutely gotta be shading"

See? You are learning what shading is now! You just shaded me too.

Now compare this shading and flea's shading with your wallposts of Mark's shading please. Then tell me if you still think Mark was shading in all of those posts you quoted.

pfft you realize I did it on purpose cuz I think ur too snotty right?

I realize you are trying too hard to look TWTBW

[Guillotina]

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Nono
DGB
no elim
Toogeloo

Scum

Flea
Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig

[Guillotina]

UNVOTE: flea

I'm back and I will try to catch up on this quickly moving (my god, 5 pages in 24 hours) game as soon as possible. (hopefully this evening).

So? Have you caught up?

[Guillotina]

These posts are going to be your downfall... Your progression on me feels a lil weird.ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

I’m aware i can be wrong and I’m willing to be proven wrong.

Do that instead of posting fluff after fluff. Help me townread you if you are town. If you are wolf, keep doing what you are doing, i love it!

[Guillotina]

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Confused why you would pick out Flea specifically as being null (as opposed to the other 9 players implicitly null by not being in your list)?

shading me for actively trying to scumhunt.

Do I need to quote the posts where u run around and shade people? cuz I don't see much scum hunting.

Could you be a pal and do that for me please? Super happy to chat through any of the points I have raised if you think my logic is awry.

I get NKed

uhhhhhhh lol I don't think that's gonna happen this game.

Even as I wrote that joke, I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist the LHF

At the time i had no impressions about others. Only those names.

Flea gave me mixed feelings then, so null.

[Guillotina]

Scum reads have to come from somewhere, and I'm not fond of people picking on low hanging fruit

Who is the LHF here?

+1

I've not quoted the follow up posts but its great to have guillotine on the same wavelength (

unless its a pocket

ofc )

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

Cheeky naked vote on consensus SR. Have some scumpoints.

Pig and Nono's 0-context votes seem sus to me, especially when we are getting beyond RVS

Both of these two were V/LA at the time of his push

Yeah, nah. Try harder please. Both dropped a no-context vote

prior

to going V/LA, when the game was getting well beyond RVS. This is a behaviour that is scummy, so I called it out. Would it have been better to ignore it?

Btw lol, I'm loving JV and Guillotine taking Noraa to task on their push on me, before I've replied. Welcome to the

Marky Mark entourage guy

s :3

First bold, if it is a pocket, it’s a town pocket so do not worry. Unless you are wolf, then you should worry as town do pocket wolves too.

Second bold, i know what you are implying here and I love it because that thought process could only come from town.

[Guillotina]

Maybe i was wrong townreading you. This is not how town proceeds.

VOTE: Noraa

I mean I am biased in Noraa unvoting me, but this feels fine for a town progression - you poke at something that feels off, that player explains their motivations and then (if you agree with their POV) you update your view of the game. Surely scummier to tunnel on a read regardless of how they respond?

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?
She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.
.

"Definitely scum" mid d1 is pretty strong IMO and is something that I rarely find myself thinking at this stage of the game.

I agree the "go easy on me" from Horsewoman is v sus, given that she clearly has experience and says as much, but I think "She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right." is a real stretch of conjecture

Fwiw, I feel like DGB's reads are in a good place, although I am confused on the strong TR of horse, given that she was deliberatley misleading in her "Hi, I'm new" post. Perhaps you could explain to us how you still TR her despite that?

Did Noraa froze?
Horsewoman, Llama slot and Noraa is where I'll vote today.
JK, Mark. Whom you'd most likely vote to yeet here?

I feel like I'm confbiased here because I found your other posts sus, so take this with a pinch of salt, but this feels very consensus-y

--pedit @Guillo that makes sense. What did you think of Noraa's super secret tell on flea?

Horsewoman raised several red flags before i said “definitely scum”.

Do you suggest i pace myself down though?

[Guillotina]

I am also quite frankly loving that Noraa went to the effort of making a wall out of my ISO. The Marky Mark entourage has another member methinks - perhaps we should start calling you lot the Funky Bunch?

For real though, 0-contex quoting my votes doesn't really help me understand why you think they are shading rather than SRing. I more than happy to chat through individual posts with you, if you want to actually articulate what it is about them that makes them shade, rather than scumhunting

Guillo kept insisting I provide evidence when I've started TRing you long ago. It was ridiculous but I did it and I do think each of those posts is shady to some extent. It doesn't affect my current read on you tho.

So, if you townread him, why do you?

[Guillotina]

@mark I understand. Still believe HW is scum and until she towns up, she is not getting out of my list.

[Guillotina]

@mark I understand. Still believe HW is scum and until she towns up, she is not getting out of my list.

PFFT. You keep repeating that yet ur vote's on me. LOL.

You got a point. I did say my vote would go to HW if you answered my questions about Mark's shading posts.

I'm a man of my word.

VOTE: Horsewoman

You are still in my scum list though.

[Guillotina]

I said that i would be judging the game based on this game's actions. So any kind of meta is irrelevant to me including people's self meta.

[Guillotina]

Ok, I'll stop dodging prods and post some reads. (sorry, work has been crazy recently since we were hit by a crippling cyber attack)

Dripping - Focused very much on norraa. He seems really determined to catch her in some sort of slip. Could easily be scum pushing a vocal target.

Flea - I wish you'd stop using so many spoiler tags. It makes it easy to miss the content of your posts, which are pretty good.

Early posting looks like honest scum hunting.

Town for now.

Horse - Pretty content barren so far (i know, i'm a pot pointing at the kettle) and wihtout Guillotina pushing back we might not have gotten anymore form Horse. Null to scum.

Virgo - So far looks like a good scumhunter. Like the push on Horse. Someone I'd be comfortable keeping around. Town so far.

Llama - Kind of disappeared after attacking Virgo for going after Horse which is sketch. What was so wrong with Virgo's read on horse? Not looking good

Noelim - do you have anything to contribute darling? (pot kettle once again, yes) I'd like to see more scrutiny from others on you.

Toog - I'm fine with any votes for horse.

But the early serious vote smells of bussing.

Then again maybe I'm just paranoid.

With all that said I'm going to VOTE: NoElim for now. maybe pressure you into some content.

Those are the reads I feel strongly amount so far. Sorry for my lack of posting so far. I'll work on that.

First bold, what early posts from Flea looked like scum hunting? Maybe you are seeing something I'm not.

Second bold, do you really believe there is utility for scum to bus a teammate on D1, when it's really easy to try to do anything else but that? Have you played as scum before?

[Guillotina]

Helpful PC User EBWOP for him

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

Townie response.

Flea, are you town? Your ISO is more fluff than game solving as of now.

I think Guillotine is Town this game but they're a lot less jokish than I remember early game in the Cakez game.

Well for one, i purposely change my meta in every game, that way noone can reference meta about me and have to solve me base on the game im playing. Two, I was extremely arrogant and irresponsible in SirCakez game, i FPS, but I'm not ready to do that again in a community where I'm new at, so, you get standard focused Guillo in this one.

[Guillotina]

Well for one, i purposely change my meta in every game, that way noone can reference meta about me and have to solve me base on the game im playing. Two, I was extremely arrogant and irresponsible in SirCakez game, i FPS, but I'm not ready to do that again in a community where I'm new at, so, you get standard focused Guillo in this one.

What community are you from? I tend to FPS a lot in my home site but not much here as I use this sight to focus on my scum-hunting or deception skills.

Mafia Universe, I FPS a lot there. Mind you the games there a lot lot shorter as well, I'm still trying to adapt to the length of games here.

[Guillotina]

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

You're voting away from your 99% soul-read on scum!flea again? Can you explain why you're doing that and why you're voting them when I think they're fairly townie + you give no reasonings here.

Noraa town reads Flea now.

[Guillotina]

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Help me see it. Do me a point by point of why I might be wrong about HW.

[Guillotina]

Hi!

I've played since 2012 but I havnt played in like 2 years. Plz go easy on me

no

[Guillotina]

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

[Guillotina]

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Lol...

"I'm sorry, I can't town read you any more. It's not you, it's everyone else. For what it's worth, I don't think their case is all that good."

Actually, if HW flips scum, I would town read Nora for this.

I don't think a wolf would defend wolf!hw here the way Noraa is doing it.

[Guillotina]

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

[Guillotina]

Noraa is either scum playing dumb or a Naive Town.

[Guillotina]

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like why bother stating the obvious assumption being drawn here when we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Because I wanted to.

[Guillotina]

I mean I'm pretty sure horse is new *to this site* but not new to mafia in general. isn't that misleading imo but I can see where the confusion comes from and why someone might misinterpret it as her trying to pull a newb card.

She specifically said " hi, I'm new! Go easy on me"

I made an entire wall about how that was more likely to come from scum

I mean if she's new to this site, she's not familiar with site meta and stuff like that. I find it not crazy to ask for people to go easy on her.

Yeah I just wanted you all not to call me names and stuff, I dont know anyone here is the thing.

Also sorry for not posting anything substantive in aaages, couple of bad mental health days. Sadly the streak will continue as I will be unable to post anything substantive for some hours now.

I'm gonna look like an asshole, but this sounds a lot like AtE. I hope you do get better but I still suspect this slot.

[Guillotina]

Spoiler:

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like

why bother

stating the obvious assumption being drawn here

when we can all see

what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Also, this did feel like shading. I don't believe you are an idiot if you are playing this game so I don't believe your question was a real one. Then you state that we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey. Who is all? Did you ask each and every one of us to come to that conclusion?

[Guillotina]

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

Now this is revealing.

Care to share games where she's done this. It would be great if you can share a game where she was town and another one where she was mafia and she did this. Because then I could treat it as a behavior pattern rather than an AI.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Momrangal

why not

Why yes?

[Guillotina]

I don't have much of a read on that slot, so vote and see.

Nah, I'm not voting outside my scum list, but!

We can scrutinize!

@Momrangal

You scumread Horsewoman and I agree.

Who else do you scum read? Who do you town read?
And more importantly, why?

[Guillotina]

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

Now this is revealing.

Care to share games where she's done this. It would be great if you can share a game where she was town and another one where she was mafia and she did this. Because then I could treat it as a behavior pattern rather than an AI.

Dude this is my second game of MS mafia and the first is ongoing.

I'm talking about the alleged "Outside of MS games". Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

[Guillotina]

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Bro you talking like i was trying to hide my mafia experience (which was 72 hour day phases and really casual) but I immediately said I had experience when asked even though i easily could have pretended to be totally new as the forum i played on is now down and I didnt even use this username so nobody was catching me

Wrong, you can't say that you could have easily pretended to be totally new, when it only took two posts to catch you. Let's put it this way, you might be a seasoned player but you are a terrible liar, the problem here is, why you tried to lie to us?

[Guillotina]

why are people still discussing this on page 19?? It feels like some kind of excuse not to move the game forward and create genuine content. That's how blatantly silly this is.

Fine! Let's do that.

What are your reads on Noraa, Toogeloo, Marky Mark and Flea The Magician?

[Guillotina]

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

This is a train of thought that I have seen many times that basically goes 'only mafia would care about being lynched/treated badly'. Completely wrong! Being mislynched sucks on an emotional level and it also hurts town on a game level! Town have a huge interest in not being lynched.

See this is what I'm talking about? You want us to town read you but you take posts out of context and AtE to try to get us to not push you, which makes me want to push you more. She is talking about, why would any of us would take it easy on you because you are new? Why would we believe that you are new? Why do we care that you are new or experienced? There are games for newbies here. You could have signed to one of those but you chose to sign up for a no-newbies game, which is fine! But don't expect preferential treatment.

Being myslynched sucks, but that is what towns are destined to be, some of us will have to die, so others can get info out of our deaths and solve the game. Don't take it personally, it is part of the game, don't act like it is not.

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

[Guillotina]

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

i didn't vote for you because hardcore, ridiculous irrational tunneling usually comes from town, which is what you're doing.

Stop this! We are past that unless you want me to keep tunneling you. I asked you for reads on people, can you please provide them?

[Guillotina]

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

This is a train of thought that I have seen many times that basically goes 'only mafia would care about being lynched/treated badly'. Completely wrong! Being mislynched sucks on an emotional level and it also hurts town on a game level! Town have a huge interest in not being lynched.

See this is what I'm talking about? You want us to town read you but you take posts out of context and AtE to try to get us to not push you, which makes me want to push you more. She is talking about, why would any of us would take it easy on you because you are new? Why would we believe that you are new? Why do we care that you are new or experienced? There are games for newbies here. You could have signed to one of those but you chose to sign up for a no-newbies game, which is fine! But don't expect preferential treatment.

Being myslynched sucks, but that is what towns are destined to be, some of us will have to die, so others can get info out of our deaths and solve the game. Don't take it personally, it is part of the game, don't act like it is not.

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

I'm not trying to AtE here, I was saying why many town act that way in many many games, not just myself. I never said that I would personally be upset if you eliminate me, honestly it's on you to not mis-elim me not on me. Stop putting words in my mouth. I also never expected 'preferential treatment', again putting words on my mouth. I said 'go easy on me' in my very first post and since then have said NOTHING about expecting preferential treatment and have played just like any other player.

In truth I should stop engaging with your posts because you seem to have your mind made up. But people have actually bought into your push for some reason and I'm kind of tilted about it lol.

Saying "go easy on me" is expecting preferential treatment! Think about that hard.

If you stop engaging with my posts I will never townread you, i think it is in your best interest to convince me that you are town. I'm willing to move past your failed noob gimmick attempt and start over! There are many ways to find out if you are scum or not.

Look, town can lie too, there are many players here that yeet all liars no matter the reasons, I disagree. Town can lie for good reasons, for dumb reasons or just because the slot is a compulsive liar that randed town (not saying that any of these are you), I wanted to see why you tried to lie about that and see if such lie can come from a town slot.
I'm not convinced you are town. tbf.

I'm looking forward to your engagement! Bring me a pelt.

[Guillotina]

Oh I do have a question though, what is 'shading'? Seen people use that term like 10 times this game, no idea what it means. Is it just being sketchy/shady?

Shading is like putting someone on a bad light in bad faith. It's the act of de-valuating, gaslighting and trivializing other people.

You should read this: https://forum.mafia451.com/t/10-psychol ... -mafia/739

[Guillotina]

Toogeloo has still been a very bad, nothing poster (which is one of the reasons I voted for him already). Apart from post 408, which is a decent post, he's accomplished nothing. He hasn't asked any questions. He hasn't pushed or applied pressure. He hasn't even stated any reads ay any point. I do not like it one bit and I am voting for him still.

Marky Mark had an odd entry to the game where he started pushing me for dumb reasons. But he kind of kept an open mind and reversed that push and has overall been useful all game. His tone is sort of weird to me but I'm 100% sure that's personality. A genuinely open-minded mindset is a townie thing to do (I know that I also said hardtunnelling is townie. Scum are somewhere in between).

Noraa for me is a hard townread because of post 403 specifically, I don't think scum would ever admit to that thought process (even if it is silly).

Fleaaa has mostly done nothing and is tonally kind of odd/gimmicky (I dig it though) which means I kind of am struggling to read him. Faer (that's your pronoun right?) couple of deep dives/ISOs seem pretty good to me, faer deep dive on me is like, legitimately good (see how it's done?). But still null as of yet. I dig Flea as a person though.

I think Toogeloo is scummy, I just don't know if it's scummy town or just scum. I'm looking closely there but you are right, it's hard to look when the slot is not creating content.

Marky Mark, i generally town lean, but his tone sometimes is... I don't know how to explain it other than, he is either town, or a townie scum. You know like there are scummy towns? Well there are also townie scums. My gut and my brain is fighting over on whether Mark is town or a townie scum.

Noraa, I tend to agree on that one, problem is that everything else from her is bad. Specially her sudden townread on Marky after accusing him of shading and scum reading him for it.

Flea, yah he has this gimmicky careless approach right? Wonder if that is genuine or it is staged.

[Guillotina]

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

[Guillotina]

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

[Guillotina]

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

[Guillotina]

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

This pings me as somewhat LAMIST

That's because im open towning.

[Guillotina]

Like ultimately, when I push people I want them to respond and argue with me so that I can refine my read based on their responses

This is good to know because im the same. After all, people can fake an alignment but behavioral traits come out at a subconscious level, those cant be faked.

[Guillotina]

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

@JacksonVirgo

[Guillotina]

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

I dont like that word, i never intent to shade when im town. I scum hunt

[Guillotina]

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

I dont like that word, i never intent to shade when im town. I scum hunt

Shading is not AI on its own, also I don't really care if you like the word or if you intend it or not it's still shade.

Eeeeh shading comes from either scum or toxic town people. It was not a shade, it was part of the progression in the conversation. If you just picked up that post without the rest of the context it would look like shading, just like Noraa who posted a whole wall of Marky quotes without context and called him out on doung shading, i think you also called out Noraa on that no? (Real question)

[Guillotina]

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

@JacksonVirgo

I see what you're seeing now but I'm not too sure if that's them slipping partners.

I accidentally deleted this post -Isis

Paraphrase:

/in, if I'm allowed. I'm new to the site.

Hi, I'm new! And very cool and good at everything

31. Greetings! New user here to play mafia (whenever a game fills lol) but these funny forum games are always ok.

That is accurate lol. I just stated i was new & would like to join that game.

From assorted places

It pinged something in me. I moved past the noobtell, but it's good to know that she was genuine about that.

[Guillotina]

Eeeeh shading comes from either scum or toxic town people. It was not a shade, it was part of the progression in the conversation. If you just picked up that post without the rest of the context it would look like shading, just like Noraa who posted a whole wall of Marky quotes without context and called him out on doung shading, i think you also called out Noraa on that no? (Real question)

I think you've got a different definition of shading than I do which is fine although Mark himself has shaded a small bit earlier in the game does that mean they're toxic town or scum? fyi I just read the context of that post and you essentially pulled that out on the spot, I don't personally see the reasonings of why that wouldn't be shade from your definition. Also difference here between Noraa calling out shade and myself is that I actually asked you to back up your read with quotes, which you refused to do at first.

It just annoyed me a bit because the game barely made the 500 posts so it's easy to catch up.

[Guillotina]

Spoiler:

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like

why bother

stating the obvious assumption being drawn here

when we can all see

what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Also, this did feel like shading. I don't believe you are an idiot if you are playing this game so I don't believe your question was a real one. Then you state that we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey. Who is all? Did you ask each and every one of us to come to that conclusion?

Toogeloo has still been a very bad, nothing poster (which is one of the reasons I voted for him already). Apart from post 408, which is a decent post, he's accomplished nothing. He hasn't asked any questions. He hasn't pushed or applied pressure. He hasn't even stated any reads ay any point. I do not like it one bit and I am voting for him still.

Marky Mark had an odd entry to the game where he started pushing me for dumb reasons. But he kind of kept an open mind and reversed that push and has overall been useful all game. His tone is sort of weird to me but I'm 100% sure that's personality. A genuinely open-minded mindset is a townie thing to do (I know that I also said hardtunnelling is townie. Scum are somewhere in between).

Noraa for me is a hard townread because of post 403 specifically, I don't think scum would ever admit to that thought process (even if it is silly).

Fleaaa has mostly done nothing and is tonally kind of odd/gimmicky (I dig it though) which means I kind of am struggling to read him. Faer (that's your pronoun right?) couple of deep dives/ISOs seem pretty good to me, faer deep dive on me is like, legitimately good (see how it's done?). But still null as of yet. I dig Flea as a person though.

I think Toogeloo is scummy, I just don't know if it's scummy town or just scum. I'm looking closely there but you are right, it's hard to look when the slot is not creating content.

Marky Mark, i generally town lean, but his tone sometimes is... I don't know how to explain it other than, he is either town, or a townie scum. You know like there are scummy towns? Well there are also townie scums. My gut and my brain is fighting over on whether Mark is town or a townie scum.

Noraa, I tend to agree on that one, problem is that everything else from her is bad. Specially her sudden townread on Marky after accusing him of shading and scum reading him for it.

Flea, yah he has this gimmicky careless approach right? Wonder if that is genuine or it is staged.

I'm loving guillos reads post with the townie scums and scummy towns. Seems like a great way to fudge your reads to me as if someone flips the opposite way to you read on them you can just say "ah he must've been a townie scum" or vice versa

@JacksonVirgo

Mark went from being townread to null read quickly for.

It feels like the kind of wolf that earns towncred early in the game and then turns that towncred on the people that townread them to discredit their reads. In the wolves mind, it would look suspicious if someone who town reads the other suddenly scum read them because town react by impulse, so you'd see no progression between both reads.

What they don't know is that it is ok for us to change our mind in the blink of an eye if something ping us because we are the uninformed majority and it is ok for us to be wrong.

At first I thought this was Noraa's case, so i wanted to make sure and push on Noraa to find out her thought process, instead she pulled out quotes that were not shading at all, so that process had to be fake.

As Mark keeps going the down the bottom of my list and Noraa stays there, im beginning to think that Nora and Mark's interactions could be w/w theater and her sudden town read on Mark was an attempt to look town by faking an spontaneous change of read.

In other words. Noraa/Mark could be w/w by interactions and behavioral progression.

[Guillotina]

@guil How do you know Jackson and nora have only played two games together? I cant find that quote.

I don't. I never said that

[Guillotina]

Eeeeh shading comes from either scum or toxic town people. It was not a shade, it was part of the progression in the conversation. If you just picked up that post without the rest of the context it would look like shading, just like Noraa who posted a whole wall of Marky quotes without context and called him out on doung shading, i think you also called out Noraa on that no? (Real question)

I think you've got a different definition of shading than I do which is fine although Mark himself has shaded a small bit earlier in the game does that mean they're toxic town or scum? fyi I just read the context of that post and you essentially pulled that out on the spot, I don't personally see the reasonings of why that wouldn't be shade from your definition. Also difference here between Noraa calling out shade and myself is that I actually asked you to back up your read with quotes, which you refused to do at first.

btw I wanted to say its fine if no one agrees that the posts I quoted were shade because I don't tend to have the same definitions as other people on this regard. Almost each thing I quoted I still believe to be shading and arguing definitions will do us no good bc my definitions are wonky.

Actually your definitions of shading would help me a lot.

My definition of shading is the act of discrediting someone in bad faith while putting themselves in a position of no compromise towards the discrediting.

Trivializing, devaluation, gaslighting, half tones of suspicion are various examples of shading to me.

[Guillotina]

I'm caught up, I skimmed alot tho. Will iso as needed.

If you skimmed a lot.

How did you come up with a full read list?

[Guillotina]

I mean I'm pretty sure horse is new *to this site* but not new to mafia in general. isn't that misleading imo but I can see where the confusion comes from and why someone might misinterpret it as her trying to pull a newb card.

She specifically said " hi, I'm new! Go easy on me"

I made an entire wall about how that was more likely to come from scum

I mean if she's new to this site, she's not familiar with site meta and stuff like that. I find it not crazy to ask for people to go easy on her.

Yeah I just wanted you all not to call me names and stuff, I dont know anyone here is the thing.

Also sorry for not posting anything substantive in aaages, couple of bad mental health days. Sadly the streak will continue as I will be unable to post anything substantive for some hours now.

I'm gonna look like an asshole, but this sounds a lot like AtE. I hope you do get better but I still suspect this slot.

well if uk ur gonna look like an asshole, then don't say it.

Im not scared of looking like an asshole to speak my mind.

[Guillotina]

Spoiler:

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like

why bother

stating the obvious assumption being drawn here

when we can all see

what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Also, this did feel like shading. I don't believe you are an idiot if you are playing this game so I don't believe your question was a real one. Then you state that we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey. Who is all? Did you ask each and every one of us to come to that conclusion?

When I say Marky is shading, you disagree but the moment he slightly disagrees with you, suddenly the tables have flipped is that how it is?

This is shading by the way. And this also checks with my theory that you both could be w/w

JacksonVirgo disagreed with me, but he did it in a way that can come from town so i still town read him. Your accusation is denied.

Next!

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Momrangal

why not

VOTE: DGB

explain your vote pls.

I still think Guillo is the scummiest tho jus saying.

Dont just say it, explain to everyone why.

Case me Noraa!

[Guillotina]

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

i didn't vote for you because hardcore, ridiculous irrational tunneling usually comes from town, which is what you're doing.

When you really wanna punch someone in the face cuz their obnoxious as hell, it generally is a town tell I won't lie.
I probs should be reassessing my read on guillo cuz he's so damn annoying :/

You gonna change your read on me based on NAI shit?

Obnoxious is a personality thing, it can come from both mafia and town because such trait comes with the player, not the play! Lol.
I could be an obnoxious wolf and you are gonna town read me because im obnoxious!?

Sounds like a bs excuse to town read me and not thunderdome with me.

VOTE: Noraa

Die!

[Guillotina]

Noraa got way more agressive ever since i posted that she could be w/w with marky.

Putting this down for ISO purposes

[Guillotina]

Why are people using votes like this. Saying that Gill is scummier defeats the original purpose of voting DGB.

I just want an answer from DGB.

It looks like either you are wasting your vote or you're preparing yourself for a quick retraction

Not really but if it makes you feel better or something, VOTE: Guillo
DGB, I still want the answer.

The point is to say that I want an answer and DGB is a very possible vote candidate. I could swap DGB in for Guillo if DGB ever starts obvscumming.
My preference atm is Guillo but DGB can easily change that.

Alright! Let's thunderdome scum!

Noraa

Let's start with a simple question. Is your vote placed on me because you scum read me or you want me policy yeeted?

[Guillotina]

Eeeeh shading comes from either scum or toxic town people.

you just called about every single person here one of those then cuz im about 99% sure everyone's shaded in some way or another by now.

this is entirely inaccurate btw.

I respect your opinion but i disagree.

[Guillotina]

At first I thought this was Noraa's case, so i wanted to make sure and push on Noraa to find out her thought process, instead she pulled out quotes that were not shading at all, so that process had to be fake.

King Guillo doesn't agree so its fake

I don't appreciate the condescending tone here.

[Guillotina]

Im not scared of looking like an asshole to speak my mind.

its not about whether or not ur scared. no one cares about that. its about being a good person.

Im a honest person! I dont sugarcoat.

[Guillotina]

This is shading by the way. And this also checks with my theory that you both could be w/w

JacksonVirgo disagreed with me, but he did it in a way that can come from town so i still town read him. Your accusation is denied.

Next!

ok so ur stupid theory is now that you, king guillo has solved an entire game on day 1 with the scum team being Horsewoman/Noraa/Marky

Did i ever say Horsewoman/Noraa=Marky are wolves?

Also, TMI? How do you know there are three wolves?

[Guillotina]

Noraa got way more agressive ever since i posted that she could be w/w with marky.

Putting this down for ISO purposes

You suggested I was scum with horsewoman. Did you forget this fast or were your reads fake from the beginning?

And i changed my mind about Horsewoman but not you. Your point?

We can change our reads as many times as we want Noraa, it's part of the perks of being town.

[Guillotina]

Is your vote placed on me because you scum read me or you want me policy yeeted?

both.

I can get behind wanting to yeet someone that looks obnoxious!

Why do you scum read me though? Because your vote felt personal, you dont like my personality so let's kill this guy right? But you are yet to case me as a wolf.

[Guillotina]

Noraa is caught scum lashing out, calling it now.

Agreed!

[Guillotina]

You said I was scum with horsewoman and then you also said I was scum with Marky.
Apparently in guillo's world Noraa is just confscum cuz OMGUS.

So? In my private notes i got Horsewoman as Null now. I thought she was scum but she's been towning up. Not by a lot but she is, unlike you.

Do you expect my reads to be set on stone? Only wolves expect that you know?

[Guillotina]

My scum reads vote me. Expected.

[Guillotina]

I'm caught up, I skimmed alot tho. Will iso as needed.

If you skimmed a lot.

How did you come up with a full read list?

I dont have a reads list.

?

My bad, i thought you did but you have quoted someone else's read list.

Comment retracted

[Guillotina]

Is your vote placed on me because you scum read me or you want me policy yeeted?

both.

I can get behind wanting to yeet someone that looks obnoxious!

Why do you scum read me though? Because your vote felt personal, you dont like my personality so let's kill this guy right? But you are yet to case me as a wolf.

Don't worry. I already basically know why you are scum. Your ISO will betray u. Just wait.

My ISO will not betray me because if/when i flip, i will flip town.

Can you say the same?

[Guillotina]

Game looks to finally have blown up a bit, though so we need so many pages about the definition of "shade" and continued application of the "first game" tell? Look at all these vanity wagons too.

Look at those nakkid votes too.

[Guillotina]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

Pretty late for a naked vote here!

I was serious voting you before I jokingly voted Flea because of Noraa's "tell." But sure, leave that out.

I'm on a lot of people's scum lists. Flea, you may need to bus me.

Oh, did I say that in the wrong chat...?

Damnit.

I can't not say I won't read him not aligned with anti-town.

He's fluffy.

Why does everyone think my 232 is a naked vote when I was the FIRST vote on Horsewoman WITH A REASON?

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Lol...

"I'm sorry, I can't town read you any more. It's not you, it's everyone else. For what it's worth, I don't think their case is all that good."

Game looks to finally have blown up a bit, though so we need so many pages about the definition of "shade" and continued application of the "first game" tell? Look at all these vanity wagons too.

Horsewoman isn't going anywhere, that wagon stalled out back on page 10 probably.

Unvote;
Vote: Guillotina

Have a naked reasoned vore in support of this wagon

Explain your progression from Horsewoman to me please.

[Guillotina]

You said I was scum with horsewoman and then you also said I was scum with Marky.
Apparently in guillo's world Noraa is just confscum cuz OMGUS.

So? In my private notes i got Horsewoman as Null now. I thought she was scum but she's been towning up. Not by a lot but she is, unlike you.

Do you expect my reads to be set on stone? Only wolves expect that you know?

I'll give you 1 star for the shade. the quality of the shade was kinda shitty so 1 star was all u got.

It's not shade if those ate real questions, you know?

[Guillotina]

Progression... Hmm...

Horsewoman leads votes.
Wagon stalls out a dozen pages back.
Thinks a new Wagon would be good for town.
Votes where a new Wagon is gaining traction and currently puts said wagon in the lead.

That's not progression. That's strategy lol.

[Guillotina]

Town

JacksonVirgo
Momrangal

Null

Nono
DGB
no elim
Horsewoman
AGamblingPig
Toogeloo

Scum

Noraa
Flea
Marky Mark
LlamaMama


This is the list i need to sort out.

[Guillotina]

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like why bother stating the obvious assumption being drawn here when we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Again, i felt like your intention with your question here was to cast shade on me for stating the obvious. Why can I not? Why does it bother you? You never elaborated on that.

I'm loving guillos reads post with the townie scums and scummy towns. Seems like a great way to fudge your reads to me as if someone flips the opposite way to you read on them you can just say "ah he must've been a townie scum" or vice versa

This felt like condescending. "I'm loving guillo's reads" Why can't you be direct and say, I don't like these posts because this and that?

Condescending, Trivializing, Patronizing

:

This involves making light of a player’s contributions or insights, to intimidate them into losing confidence. “LOL, you’re just not very good at this, are you?”. Often this is conveyed as mere banter or joking, but always negative, and usually involving ad hominem attacks on a player, rather than directly on a player’s arguments or insights.

Noraa is guilty of this too, refer to "King Guillo's remarks".

You have an uncanny familiarity with mafia jargon for a new user in their first game onsite. Hmmm

You were gonna go down the road I'm on, were you not?

Yes, in addition to my tell, a large amount of her posts is IIOA, and even when I'm a 1v1 with Guillotine the way she moves through it and tries to get out of it is a little weird.

Yes, on page 3 I made that comment, but I also commented on her other behaviors eg her "someone do something" post and her subsequently trying to claim townpoints for it. You trying to say that we are on the same reoad here is just misleading.

What is IIOA sorry? Just not familiar with that one.

To your questions about IIOA refer to this link: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... f_Analysis

I'm loving guillos reads post with the townie scums and scummy towns. Seems like a great way to fudge your reads to me as if someone flips the opposite way to you read on them you can just say "ah he must've been a townie scum" or vice versa

@JacksonVirgo

Mark went from being townread to null read quickly for.

It feels like the kind of wolf that earns towncred early in the game and then turns that towncred on the people that townread them to discredit their reads. In the wolves mind, it would look suspicious if someone who town reads the other suddenly scum read them because town react by impulse, so you'd see no progression between both reads.

What they don't know is that it is ok for us to change our mind in the blink of an eye if something ping us because we are the uninformed majority and it is ok for us to be wrong.

10/10 strawman - if you think that I am scummy then articulate your case but this is all pure conjecture. Surely all scum want to earn towncred?? And yes, flipping reads with no progression is weird, but equally, if someone that you TR starts acting scummy then just call it out and explain why and people willl understand your progression. I'm genuinely starting to feel like your "townie scum" hunch on me was a concoction to allow you to pivot to SRing me - if you had something concrete that I was doing that was scummy then why not just use actual evidence?

@Guillo - what exactly are you SRing me for? Is it just my comment on your "townie scum"/"scummy town" post, or is there more to it?

@Pig - keen to have some reads from you

Nono's last post was like 2 days ago so I'm thinking they are maybe afk. Could definitely see them being lurkerscum here, but I'm not sure a vote would really serve much of a purpose if they aren't going to respond.

I felt that the quality of your contributions declined right after I stated that I town read you. Like as if I town read you I was gonna be forced to ignore those red flags because otherwise I would look like I cannot make my mind up.

Then I remembered your interaction with Noraa where she accused you of shading her and when I pushed her on it, she couldn't provide evidence of shading whatsoever and instead, she just townread you, just because! Which was really weird! Not only that, you didn't push on that either! You didn't bother to go deep into her sudden townread on you, you just accepted it! Like if both of you were wolves, one would be telling the other "hey hey, maybe the push is a little much, stop there because you are gonna get scum read Noraa", then after a while you rolled over for her and white knighted her?

So I figure, what if these two are in it together and all of it was just theater?

So I push on that and the whole convo with relaxed Noraa turned hostile quickly. Her hostility began when I stated that you and Noraa could be w/w.

Noraa then went to past posts and began throwing shade on me for my reads and interactions with Horsewoman, whom I made a truce with (let's work together to get you town read).

It all made me feel like I am onto something because before Mark/Nora w/w theory, the chat felt like no pressure, no resistance, but after that, the chat gained this overall resistance. Specially from Noraa.

I believe that there could be a w/w or at least a v/w between you and Noraa for that.

[Guillotina]

Also i have no idea what ILOA means lol

For you too: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... f_Analysis

[Guillotina]

Hey guillo, out of curiosity, could you add some percentages to those lovely reads of yours, or some indication of how solid those reads are

Nah, i dont feel like it, but I might draw it and color it for you later on. Stay tuned!

[Guillotina]

What does TSTBS stand for?

[Guillotina]

To scummy to be scum

Ahh ok. Thank you

[Guillotina]

How would it affect your noraa read if I told you that she definitely focuses/plays serious as scum?

That reminds me,
@guillo: How would it affect your read on mark if I told you he got limmed d1 in his only scum game on site?

I would tell you what I've told everyone here already. I don't believe in meta.

I believe and judge based on actions in this game.

Also, I townread Momrangal and she claimed Mason. I'm not voting there.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Horsewoman

[Guillotina]

How would it affect your noraa read if I told you that she definitely focuses/plays serious as scum?

That reminds me,
@guillo: How would it affect your read on mark if I told you he got limmed d1 in his only scum game on site?

I would tell you what I've told everyone here already. I don't believe in meta.

I believe and judge based on actions in this game.

Also, I townread Momrangal and she claimed Mason. I'm not voting there.

Good because you really shouldn’t

Math tunnels are feared and that wagon is bad.

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to add up Horse is probably scum fishing and a majority of scum probably on that wagon.

What do you mean with scum fishing?

[Guillotina]

scum hunting?

[Guillotina]

Srs tho, I'm a second counter wagon taking off

Mason claim is a joke

How do you know?

[Guillotina]

I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here.

[Guillotina]

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

[Guillotina]

o

VOTE: Horsewoman

why the backflip here?

VOTE: Horsewoman

Horsewoman and Toog based on skim of VCs

What about VCs enables you to be remotely as confident as you are about this

I townread your counterwagon. I don't townread you.

[Guillotina]

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

Rule of three says anytime scum list three names there’s a high likelihood one or more is scum to maintain credibility/gamestate. It’s not a sure fire thing but it’s more likely. I am still catching up but generally I look for things like that and see if they are supported by the gamestate

I don't think she'd name both? Too risky. Don't you think?

[Guillotina]

I'm a mason hahahaha

Is this a real claim Momrangal?

[Guillotina]

I don't do joke claims

Thank you

[Guillotina]

Horse is still town

If not Horse, who else would you yeet as of now?

[Guillotina]

Horse is still town

Horse is still town despite voting a mason.

Funny.

Vote horse or you’re scum with her.

I don't like the tone of this.

What happens if Horse flips town then? How would you read Infinity then?

Let every player cast their vote without pressure, it's easier to sort wagons and vanity wagons out that way.

[Guillotina]

Hmmm. Look I'm down with flipping Horsewoman, I haven't been a fan of her. But imposing conditions on players for casting or not casting votes on players of your preference is not how I roll.

As per your reasoning:

If infinity does not cast a vote on HW, he is scum.
If infinity cast the vote on HW and HW is town, he is scum?

What if Infinity votes HW and she flips scum? Is Infinity town as a result? What if he is bussing and use your pressure to justify it on D2?
What if Infinity is town and still votes for HW and she flips town? Then what?

Let people cast their votes without pressure, that way, they have to own up to their decision.

[Guillotina]

Assuming Horse town then I know I am town and am reasonably certain Mom is so the scum team would have to be all JV G and Toog and I don’t see that as a viable team especially since I townread G.

This is also taking the assumption that all scum are on Horse if they're Town which is a stretch.

Not really, in one of my games as scum at MU we all voted to yeet the same player on D1 exactly for that, because nobody would believe that all scum would be on that wagon.

It paid off, we won that game because wagonomic experts concluded we couldn't possibly be so dumb to do that.

[Guillotina]

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

[Guillotina]

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Stuff like this makes me think infinity is scum.

If he thought the mason claim was fake his vote is okay.

If he thought the mason claim was real why vote her if town?

I really just think it’s Horse+Infinity and maybe I was wrong on Toog.

I would wanna flip Horse to see if that assumption is correct.

Flipping HW or Noraa would give us the most information and I do t townread them so im ok with either option.

[Guillotina]

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Stuff like this makes me think infinity is scum.

If he thought the mason claim was fake his vote is okay.

If he thought the mason claim was real why vote her if town?

I really just think it’s Horse+Infinity and maybe I was wrong on Toog.

I would wanna flip Horse to see if that assumption is correct.

Flipping HW or Noraa would give us the most information and I

dont

townread them so im ok with either option.

[Guillotina]

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Stuff like this makes me think infinity is scum.

If he thought the mason claim was fake his vote is okay.

If he thought the mason claim was real why vote her if town?

I really just think it’s Horse+Infinity and maybe I was wrong on Toog.

I would wanna flip Horse to see if that assumption is correct.

Yah but infinity is not saying that he believed the claim was real, and he didnt as Momrangal had to confirm for him to remove his vote. So, i think it is genuine.
What he is saying is that if you were certain that Momrangal was Mason, you couldn't have felt worried, which is not necessarily AI but it is wrong! Because the wagon was going up fast in votes and she could have been yeeted at that rate.

[Guillotina]

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Hammering with 4 days left in the day phase is kinda a scumclaim imo

It's not! In Xenoblade 2, the day phases were supposed to be 12 days and town sorted and stomped scum in less than 48 hours of every day phase.

[Guillotina]

So hammering early is just NAI. The why and how people hammer early is where we can try to figure out their Alignment

[Guillotina]

I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here.

... if she is a fake and

she is baiting real masons

and the real masons take the bait, that's like 1 for 2 from a scum perspective.
tho

normally scum try to bait out roles

like vig or cop I'll admit.

I believe the claim but ur reasoning for believing it are dumber than having no reason imo.

No! They never would try to outright bait for Masons in a themed game! LOL They would hunt for PRs ALWAYS!!!

Also, two Masons counterclaiming does not guarantee their demise during the night for a "1 for 2!" Are you for real!? They become town clears and PRs will confirm/protect/watch those town clears, hence why scum will not try to attack them on Night 1! You always protect the town clears over everyone else this early game! Get out of here!

So yah! I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here still stands!

Good job at looking dumber while calling other people dumb.

[Guillotina]

That’s NAI Nora.

Good players town and scum poke everywhere. You’d scumread me every game for that. This is just a unique situation where scum is likely present in Horsewoman.

I believe it is AI for newbies. Newbtown is much more likely to tunnel whereas newbscum is more likely to poke around and try to find a soft spot.

Im not a noob, what is your excuse now? I've played this since way before the new generation started calling it Mafia.

Poking around is my method for scum hunting, i poke and wait for reactions, then cross reference those reactions with other players reactions. I also analyze reactions from players to other people's post and cross reference them with my private notes.

I never comfy wagon, i develop my reads and push/yeet those at the bottom of my list. I town read Momrangal and Horsewoman is way bellow her in my list, so are you, so is Mark or Flea or Toogeloo. There is no chance in hell im yeeting someone i townread over nulls or people in my scum list. Plain and simple.
That is not to say that my reads won't change and they have changed! But as long as they don't change im not yeeting my town reads over my nulls and scum reads, and im not yeeting my nulls over my scum reads.

[Guillotina]

Right, I have at least read the last 13 pages. Digesting it all and applying scrutiny will happen at an undisclosed date TBC

UNVOTE: Momrangal - because eliming a claimed mason would be bad. Cool things that came out of this wagon include:
--Premature claim - being elimed overnight from E-2 seems like overcaution to me (++TR for JV asking the same question that was in my head ref this in 793). This being said, I reckon the claim is probably legit because would be a massive risk to fake-claim mason and get counterclaimed.
--789 from flea casting doubt over the mason claim confused me - @Flea: why don't you believe the claim?
--973 is a mahooosive stretch from noraa to try and shade DGB by implying they were avoiding the thread in case mom got hammered in the meantime

Math makes a good argument ref infinity's seemingly inconsistent position on Mom ref whether he believed their claim or not

BUT

the bigger question is why did Toog vote there after the claim? I was TRing them before this wagon but their behavior (vote there after the claim then subsequently unvote) just straight-up confuses me. Wondering if TSTBS

Guillo is swinging ++TR of the back of the last 10 pages or so - I won't quote any single post as it is more the consistent proactiveness and analysis. @Guillo - I have skimmed your response to me ref why you SR me so thanks for taking the time to articulate that and I'll take the time to properly read it and respond tomorrow IRL.

++SR Pig for 858 - his only contribution of the back off all that drama was his unvote and some IIOA (checkout me learning all the lingo!)

Keen to hear from Flea ref why they weren't convinced ref the mason claim and from toog ref his post-claim vote. These are two potential smoking guns right now IMO

VOTE: Toogeloo seems like a good place to be for now. Ref horse, I need to look at her more as stuff like 683 where she defends Mom just feels ++TR. If they were scum and looking likely the most likely elim today then why would they try to defend the next most likely elim target at the time?

I love this post and looking forward to your response to my read on you.

I'm willing to eliminate Toogeloo if Horsewoman and Noraa yeets are out of question today.

In order of preference: Noraa, Horsewoman, Toogeloo

Pig, i'd like to request a Prod, im not yeeting that slot today as it would give us no information.

[Guillotina]

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

BTW why didn't anyone tunnel guillo for saying the same thing horse did? Im flipped thru his iso rn and this stuck out like a sore thumb

Because unlike Horsewoman, i dont expect players to take it easy on me for being new to the forum maybe?

What's next?

[Guillotina]

UNVOTE

Math has come out guns ablazing in the scumhunt since replacing noelim.

Pig posted here thus unavailable for prod

Then wait for him to catch up, if he does not, we push.

[Guillotina]

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

Now this is revealing.

Care to share games where she's done this. It would be great if you can share a game where she was town and another one where she was mafia and she did this. Because then I could treat it as a

behavior pattern

rather than an AI.

The hypocrisy is not lost. When you want to defend someone with meta, it's fine. Someone else however, NO NO NO King Guillo will behead you for not listening to him.

I was not looking for meta, i was looking for

BEHAVIOR

!

Your shading intensifies! You remain in my scum list!

[Guillotina]

That’s NAI Nora.

Good players town and scum poke everywhere. You’d scumread me every game for that. This is just a unique situation where scum is likely present in Horsewoman.

I believe it is AI for newbies. Newbtown is much more likely to tunnel whereas newbscum is more likely to poke around and try to find a soft spot.

Im not a noob, what is your excuse now? I've played this since way before the new generation started calling it Mafia.

Poking around is my method for scum hunting, i poke and wait for reactions, then cross reference those reactions with other players reactions. I also analyze reactions from players to other people's post and cross reference them with my private notes.

I never comfy wagon, i develop my reads and push/yeet those at the bottom of my list. I town read Momrangal and Horsewoman is way bellow her in my list, so are you, so is Mark or Flea or Toogeloo. There is no chance in hell im yeeting someone i townread over nulls or people in my scum list. Plain and simple.
That is not to say that my reads won't change and they have changed! But as long as they don't change im not yeeting my town reads over my nulls and scum reads, and im not yeeting my nulls over my scum reads.

Calm down pinocchio

If you are saying that im lying. Prove it!

[Guillotina]

No I think guillo is almost certainly scum here.

Reading his ISO basically everyone starts out Null/TR.

The moment you disagree, u get moved down

. Once there are too many people moved down, he just randomly moves a few back up. Ie Toog, Mark.

This is not towny at all.

I don't see how anyone can scum read Guillo here.

He keeps hard SRing Horse yet he seems so fine with dropping that read instantly

. Like the moment consensus shifts, he's like BYE.

He says meta is trash but then its fine to use it to justify a TR on horse?

I just think he's trying way too hard to blend into consensus and form consensus himself as well.

1) JacksonVirgo has disagreed with me, he is still townread. Nono was in my null list, Math took over, we've disagree in pushing methods, i town read him.

2) Did you mean cannot? Or was that a slip?

3) I've never dropped my read on Horsewoman, i called a truce on her to see if she'd town up. She is still in the bottom of my list and im playing consistently with my read on her in this game so far.

I'm never getting yeeted here. But if i do, my flip will give town information that will help them win the game. Im confident about that.

[Guillotina]

That’s NAI Nora.

Good players town and scum poke everywhere. You’d scumread me every game for that. This is just a unique situation where scum is likely present in Horsewoman.

I believe it is AI for newbies. Newbtown is much more likely to tunnel whereas newbscum is more likely to poke around and try to find a soft spot.

Im not a noob, what is your excuse now? I've played this since way before the new generation started calling it Mafia.

Poking around is my method for scum hunting, i poke and wait for reactions, then cross reference those reactions with other players reactions. I also analyze reactions from players to other people's post and cross reference them with my private notes.

I never comfy wagon, i develop my reads and push/yeet those at the bottom of my list. I town read Momrangal and Horsewoman is way bellow her in my list, so are you, so is Mark or Flea or Toogeloo. There is no chance in hell im yeeting someone i townread over nulls or people in my scum list. Plain and simple.
That is not to say that my reads won't change and they have changed! But as long as they don't change im not yeeting my town reads over my nulls and scum reads, and im not yeeting my nulls over my scum reads.

Calm down pinocchio

If you are saying that im lying. Prove it!

Depends what you think I'm saying you're lying about

You quoted the whole post and called me pinocchio, i assumed to called it all a lie. If that is not the case, what part is a lie according to you?

[Guillotina]

And how did they play in previous games?

Not sure.
I've played two games with him.
One where he was town and got nk'ed for softing pr hard.
The other where he was scum and doomed his slot.

Lies. Three games.

230 normal - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84936

Open 800 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84885

Xenoblade 2 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84949

[Guillotina]

No I think guillo is almost certainly scum here.

Reading his ISO basically everyone starts out Null/TR.

The moment you disagree, u get moved down

. Once there are too many people moved down, he just randomly moves a few back up. Ie Toog, Mark.

This is not towny at all.

I don't see how anyone can scum read Guillo here.

He keeps hard SRing Horse yet he seems so fine with dropping that read instantly

. Like the moment consensus shifts, he's like BYE.

He says meta is trash but then its fine to use it to justify a TR on horse?

I just think he's trying way too hard to blend into consensus and form consensus himself as well.

1) JacksonVirgo has disagreed with me, he is still townread. Nono was in my null list, Math took over, we've disagree in pushing methods, i town read him.

2) Did you mean cannot? Or was that a slip?

3) I've never dropped my read on Horsewoman, i called a truce on her to see if she'd town up. She is still in the bottom of my list and im playing consistently with my read on her in this game so far.

I'm never getting yeeted here. But if i do, my flip will give town information that will help them win the game. Im confident about that.

I meant i'm playing consistently according to my reads on Horsewoman in this game sonfar.

[Guillotina]

And how did they play in previous games?

Not sure.
I've played two games with him.
One where he was town and got nk'ed for softing pr hard.
The other where he was scum and doomed his slot.

Lies. Three games.

230 normal - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84936

Open 800 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84885

Xenoblade 2 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84949

What was the point in this post?
You were dead in 230 by the time I repped in.

Are you really asking this question? Just because someone is dead it does not mean that my legacy whether bad or good is still not in play.

[Guillotina]

*Yeets nora a sandwich to munch while reading this.*

Spoiler: OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

Alright let's drop the act for this one, it's clear to me that anything less blunt and to the point commentary is going to be considered by our sharpened steel friend here.

My name is not Joseph! How dare you!

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Guillotina!!!! Ooooweeee

Yaaaah! I'm here to lighten your days yo!

Make your days grand while killing scum!

Which given these have a nice and chill vibe to them amuses me greatly.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

New to the forum right?

MINE

Yah, new to the forum.

VOTE: No Elim. But not like the user no elim, like a vote to not elim

VOTE: No elim

Ok

{. Are you new to the forum or pretending to be new to the forum?

very sad! low energy! lame!

This denotes excitement, wants to get the game going. Horsewoman, it's a 10-day Day phase game.

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

You were bored and you are probably used to fast games.

To some extent, sure. It wasn't entirely serious in tone because I rarely am.

Yah, you've been fucking around.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Not necessarily

Now this is his 4th post, and the game has moved on to page 3, almost page 4.

This is fairly

sharp

shift in tone and seems to be setting up for a SR imo.

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

This is the post of my main read, they're not even trying to post on interactions or anything. The game right now is on page 3, nobody would really have any solid reads at all but it doesn't mean we all just give up and let other's do everything. I first read this as a joke post as I've said, which is why I brushed off Marks read but then when they made that second post I quoted said that it was at least semi-serious and that's plain anti-town behaviour and I'm not going to let that slip regardless if they're Town acting anti-town.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

And then when I called it out for being anti-town behaviour they flipped the wording to make them look like they're actively trying to push the game out of RVS and solve and in extension discredit my case, they're blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from RVS. This is just straight scummy behaviour, what Town would twist the wording in this situation for their own self-gain.

Two questions, 1) do you think HW gave up and let others do everything?

2) In your experience, do all town members behave and act upon posts the same?

Testing the waters maybe? I'm probably stretching here but this is what it feels like to me at the moment.

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

Me too! Hey look you made a fluff post with no point to it, what's the world coming to, hm?

Nice try at discrediting my way of game solving.

First, if the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere is because the content of it didn't. Thank you.
Two, my deep dive allowed me deduce that you attempted to noobtell and miserably failed.
Three, makes me wonder why you tried to noobtell? Either alignment do this, but why did you?

If the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere, then you're not doing it right, quite frankly. Your deep dive was a setup for something that hasn't quite panned out and is now making you look bad.

If you want to call people out for no-contenting, then at least provide some yourself. You can always provide content from nothing.

Ok well im now 99% sure I have soul read on Flea and I think they're scum. Maybe will explain why later. A bit cautious treading in this territory cuz last I SRed Flea, they were town. Gimme some time to think.

Have you explained why already?

You could just read yourself and see.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Now I like this one. "Hah you thought this point but not this point! Therefore you are scum, my dear!"

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

This ones also interesting. The context has been left out, potentially leaving it to be twisted for later deeds. It's a strictly out of game comment aimed at Nora when it comes to my personality beyond the game. You then take this moment to prod me on HW.

barely caring about other people's SRs on you(which is a newbscum tell that says they know the people SRing are right so they are avoiding)

Thinking about it, this feels like an inaccuracy - in my (limited) experience, newbscum tend to panic when people vote them rather than playing it cool like a more seasoned player. Not sure if you are stretching the truth to fit the facts here or have just had a different experience of playing with new players (entirely possible).

Btw - pagetop without even realising until I'd posted #oblivious #ImJustThatGood

This is inaccurate. NoobsScum will ignore and evade town that scum read them by instinct.

A noob town will panic because in their own perspective, they should be obvious town cause they are being honest, so when they get votes they panic because they dont understand it.

Not always. If we were children, maybe.

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

Not at all, just reflecting on my mannerisms ^_^ I am the universal parent friendo

Horsey is sus, but nothing significant as of yet.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

This is setting up for later, it's almost like gut instinct isn't allowed and I'm not allowed have my read without justification.

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Why mention me specifically? This is part of a setup imo.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

I love this.
It's stupidly NAI worded xD

Weird.

Show us where you thought Mark was shading people.

Nah I liked his reply and now TR him. If he starts being scummy again tho, my walls of evidence will come strolling in in some tall high heels like clickety clack clack.

Maybe i was wrong townreading you. This is not how town proceeds.

VOTE: Noraa

Evidence of shading or i'll park this vote.

OBEY ME OR I'M GOING TO JUST be kinda lazy... hm.

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

This is about where I’m at as well although I don’t think all three of those are scum together, I think at least one is though if that makes sense.

Yah i dont think I'm actually God of mafia and found 3 wolves in day 1. But those slots need to get sorted.

Horsewoman is obvscum! I'd yeet her first.

Potential associative? This is an extreme shift though, that pressure vote just *poof* gone faster than a fart in the wind. The vote on Noraa is now serving no purpose.

OK fine I can't help myself OK? This is why I said its half and half

VOTE: horsewoman

Why?

Because she's obvscum, obviously. pfft. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was dumb. I wasnt trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also wasnt discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

Curious again, i never said you did discredit me for any of those things, but if it is in your mind, it's because it's true.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was

smart

. I

WAS

trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also

WAS

discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is

NOT

laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

This is what you are psychologically telling me.

I like these two posts...

Literally Guillotina putting words in mouth and trying to force something that I don't think is there.

This is an impressive Deathtunnel, shame about the execution though.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

LOOOK AT MEEEEE! I'M MR GUUUILLLLOTIIIIIINA!!!!
Attempt at putting pressure back on Noraa, which I sadly know won't work.
"You're obvscum! And I'mma vote yoooou! except you're not so amma vote Noraa instead because she won't OBEY." (✿˘艸˘✿)

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

And yet there's an actual post where I literally just OMGUS'd and I got the best interaction in this game yet from it

Did Noraa froze?

Horsewoman, Llama slot and Noraa is where I'll vote today.

JK, Mark. Whom you'd most likely vote to yeet here?

See this is where I think these constant read lists are a little butt bitey. It's entirely NAI but I find it amusing that these lists are being stuck to like rigidly. There's 3 options and 3 options only. There's no information on town leans and no effort to solve outside these lists IMO.

Helpful PC User EBWOP for him

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

Townie response.

Flea, are you town? Your ISO is more fluff than game solving as of now.

Two in one.
As I've said earlier, I'm fluffy af as a person.o(〃＾▽＾〃)o
My game policy is "I'm here for good time not for long time!"
You cut past the fluff I post, and you'll find content. You have to be willing to work for it, which to me at this point it's clear you're not and I get a frustrated vibe from you towards me because of all this. Partly why I've dropped most of the persona from this ISO so you can read it and not get pissed off I have quite a developed reads list at this point and have fewer nulls than you

Look inside and be afraid, of this impressive mess I've made. If you take a look now you will fiiiiiiiiind! I have done away with lies, done away with paradise, see whats going on inside my miiieeeeennnnnnnd mwahahaha

Has No Elim posted at all?

Just as a friendly pointer, there's the ISO sections which let you look at players in ISOlation, and there's the Activity overview on the bottom that lets you see how active players are and how long since they last posted

As a less friendly note... this be fluff

Ur town play is trash then if that's how you think. OMGUSing is something nearly every newbie does but thinking it is optimal play is pretty bad.

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

The irony.

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

Also, next time I would appreciate if you did take quotes out of context, that's a very scummy thing to do. Do not worry though, I will look into the original posts for context.

Oh, my god. You suck.
A term created by wolves to discredit town pushes... but you want people to OMGUS you...
It's not a bad thing to do, honestly. and for some play styles, it's optimal. I use it occasionally because it gives me information I can work with ¡¡¡( •̀ ᴗ •́ )و!!!
But then I'm a weird player

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

you just called urself scum lol.

Nice try! I did,'t create the term dummy. It's been on existence since way before you started playing this.

See this is why I love Nora, Nora picks up on this shiz but doesn't call it out like I do.
Gulliotina coming in with the strawman defence.

Ok so

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Flea
Nono
DGB
no elim

Scum

Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig
Toogeloo

And now we have a full reads list. All nulls included.

I'll keep my vote on Noraa, but i'm willing to come to a consensus with the people I town read to vote for someone else, as long as that someone else is in my scum list.

I like this.

"You can work with me but I'll only work with you if its in my interests!"

Now Noraa, see this? This is shading!


Flea, would you rather if i negotiated for a yeet in my town read list? How about in my null list? And why?

Double contexter, I actually quite like the response to my shade and it's AI IMO.

To answer the question, town reads not at all, null reads, yes. Absolutely yes. Your nulls should be a main focus IMO. Those are slots you need to sort. Given I've been specifically placed in your null list that means I've done something worthy of your attention, meaning I should be sorted by now. You've at best been idlying playing with your scum reads at this point and I get a lazy cat vibe from you overall.

I can't not say I won't read fae not aligned with anti-town.

Faer fluffy.

I agree.

You went up to null, because you are either a smartass town or God Level WIFOM Mafia.

This is not a valid read to increase the read on someone.
You don't improve a read based on WIFOM drops or someone being a smartass. WIFOM is the weapon of the foul and low.

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Nono
DGB
no elim
Toogeloo

Scum

Flea
Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig

Now we have some meat. Me and Toogs have swapped places. All I did was yeet some shade, and now I'm scum. Toogs was a smartass/WIFOM-bomber and moved up.
This progression is WEEEEERRRRIIIIIIDD!

These posts are going to be your downfall... Your progression on me feels a lil weird.ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

I’m aware i can be wrong and I’m willing to be proven wrong.

Do that instead of posting fluff after fluff. Help me townread you if you are town. If you are wolf, keep doing what you are doing, i love it!

Which is manifested here. Now my posts are fluff after fluff after fluff. That lazy cat vibe is back again. I know there's content in my posts, and so do others. You just have to effort it to find it.

It's then the "Help me help you!" line... of laziness. This is more refusal to do anything and condemning me because of how I play the game. It's another case of "OBEY ME OR ELSE (i'm just going to be lazy and just like.. fluff push you I guess?)".

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Confused why you would pick out Flea specifically as being null (as opposed to the other 9 players implicitly null by not being in your list)?

At the time i had no impressions about others. Only those names.

Flea gave me mixed feelings then, so null.

I still find it odd I was mentioned and looking at it, it looks like a setup for later to me.

Scum reads have to come from somewhere, and I'm not fond of people picking on low hanging fruit

Who is the LHF here?

+1

I've not quoted the follow up posts but its great to have guillotine on the same wavelength (

unless its a pocket

ofc )

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

Cheeky naked vote on consensus SR. Have some scumpoints.

Pig and Nono's 0-context votes seem sus to me, especially when we are getting beyond RVS

Both of these two were V/LA at the time of his push

Yeah, nah. Try harder please. Both dropped a no-context vote

prior

to going V/LA, when the game was getting well beyond RVS. This is a behaviour that is scummy, so I called it out. Would it have been better to ignore it?

Btw lol, I'm loving JV and Guillotine taking Noraa to task on their push on me, before I've replied. Welcome to the

Marky Mark entourage guy

s :3

First bold, if it is a pocket, it’s a town pocket so do not worry. Unless you are wolf, then you should worry as town do pocket wolves too.

Second bold, i know what you are implying here and I love it because that thought process could only come from town.

IIoA-ish. Also I'm glad you know what you meant with the second bold, because I don't.

Horsewoman raised several red flags before i said “definitely scum”.

Do you suggest i pace myself down though?

I'm not seeing them though, and not as being called out from you... You've been on HW since the start of the day with saying she's scummy.

@mark I understand. Still believe HW is scum and until she towns up, she is not getting out of my list.

PFFT. You keep repeating that yet ur vote's on me. LOL.

You got a point. I did say my vote would go to HW if you answered my questions about Mark's shading posts.

I'm a man of my word.

VOTE: Horsewoman

You are still in my scum list though.

I freaking love Nora, she is my kinda chaos - and this to me is one of the definitions of OMGUS, called out for something and bites back.

I said that i would be judging the game based on this game's actions. So any kind of meta is irrelevant to me including people's self meta.

This is worth noting because....

Flea - I wish you'd stop using so many spoiler tags. It makes it easy to miss the content of your posts, which are pretty good.

Early posting looks like honest scum hunting.

Town for now.

Toog - I'm fine with any votes for horse.

But the early serious vote smells of bussing.

Then again maybe I'm just paranoid.

First bold, what early posts from Flea looked like scum hunting? Maybe you are seeing something I'm not.

Second bold, do you really believe there is utility for scum to bus a teammate on D1, when it's really easy to try to do anything else but that? Have you played as scum before?

I think a lot of people are seeing things you're not and there's ALWAYS utility to bus. For someone who has just thrown meta out of the window, why are you interested if someones played a game as an alignment before? That is a form of meta.

Well for one, i purposely change my meta in every game, that way noone can reference meta about me and have to solve me base on the game im playing. Two, I was extremely arrogant and irresponsible in SirCakez game, i FPS, but I'm not ready to do that again in a community where I'm new at, so, you get standard focused Guillo in this one.

"I AM UNREEEEEEAAAAAADABLEEEE!!! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH*coughcoughsplutter*
Sadly as someone who uses a persona to play this game and avoid meta, patterns will always emerge no matter how you try and play. Oh, and self-meta is here

Sorry nornor, that means your soul reads on me aren't on me but on the person and will probably always be wrong <3

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

You're voting away from your 99% soul-read on scum!flea again? Can you explain why you're doing that and why you're voting them when I think they're fairly townie + you give no reasonings here.

Noraa town reads Flea now.

IIoA. Not only that, it's putting words in her mouth. This looks like framing to me.

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Help me see it. Do me a point by point of why I might be wrong about HW.

MEEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!!

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

So is this, honestly. Yes it's NAI and doing nothing in and of itself, however, it's still doing something. I'm not going to explain it to you though, you're a lazy butt.

Just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Noraa is either scum playing dumb or a Naive Town.

Non-commital and sitting on a fence. This right here, is a fluff post. I'll do a comparison after this.

I mean I'm pretty sure horse is new *to this site* but not new to mafia in general. isn't that misleading imo but I can see where the confusion comes from and why someone might misinterpret it as her trying to pull a newb card.

She specifically said " hi, I'm new! Go easy on me"

I made an entire wall about how that was more likely to come from scum

I mean if she's new to this site, she's not familiar with site meta and stuff like that. I find it not crazy to ask for people to go easy on her.

Yeah I just wanted you all not to call me names and stuff, I dont know anyone here is the thing.

Also sorry for not posting anything substantive in aaages, couple of bad mental health days. Sadly the streak will continue as I will be unable to post anything substantive for some hours now.

I'm gonna look like an asshole, but this sounds a lot like AtE. I hope you do get better but I still suspect this slot.

Yes, yes you do. If someone says their mental health is crap you don't throw it at them as AtE to get out of something. Anyone using that as an excuse honestly deserves to be in the bin.

I myself have several conditions that affect my ability to play as much as I would like and people have simply said "No worries, catch up when you can. If you're able are you able to answer these questions for me?"

We're good folk here <3

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like

why bother

stating the obvious assumption being drawn here

when we can all see

what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Also, this did feel like shading. I don't believe you are an idiot if you are playing this game so I don't believe your question was a real one. Then you state that we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey. Who is all? Did you ask each and every one of us to come to that conclusion?

For someone doing absolutely bare minimum themselves, this is a big ask.

I don't have much of a read on that slot, so vote and see.

Nah, I'm not voting outside my scum list, but!

We can scrutinize!

@Momrangal

You scumread Horsewoman and I agree.

Who else do you scum read? Who do you town read?
And more importantly, why?

GIT IN MAH POKIT!

I also wanna point out, theres been no reads lists recently.

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

Now this is revealing.

Care to share games where she's done this. It would be great if you can share a game where she was town and another one where she was mafia and she did this. Because then I could treat it as a behavior pattern rather than an AI.

Dude this is my second game of MS mafia and the first is ongoing.

I'm talking about the alleged "Outside of MS games". Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Damn I wish I could stretch this well...

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Bro you talking like i was trying to hide my mafia experience (which was 72 hour day phases and really casual) but I immediately said I had experience when asked even though i easily could have pretended to be totally new as the forum i played on is now down and I didnt even use this username so nobody was catching me

Wrong, you can't say that you could have easily pretended to be totally new, when it only took two posts to catch you. Let's put it this way, you might be a seasoned player but you are a terrible liar, the problem here is, why you tried to lie to us?

this is beautiful, I think amma cry :')

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

This is a train of thought that I have seen many times that basically goes 'only mafia would care about being lynched/treated badly'. Completely wrong! Being mislynched sucks on an emotional level and it also hurts town on a game level! Town have a huge interest in not being lynched.

See this is what I'm talking about? You want us to town read you but you take posts out of context and AtE to try to get us to not push you, which makes me want to push you more. She is talking about, why would any of us would take it easy on you because you are new? Why would we believe that you are new? Why do we care that you are new or experienced? There are games for newbies here. You could have signed to one of those but you chose to sign up for a no-newbies game, which is fine! But don't expect preferential treatment.

Being myslynched sucks, but that is what towns are destined to be, some of us will have to die, so others can get info out of our deaths and solve the game. Don't take it personally, it is part of the game, don't act like it is not.

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

I will lose my mind, make it real this tiiiiime, to leave it all behind. I won't cry wolf.
Show me a sign, planets will align,
I'm gunna blow my mind. I won't, cry wolf.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

i didn't vote for you because hardcore, ridiculous irrational tunneling usually comes from town, which is what you're doing.

Stop this! We are past that unless you want me to keep tunneling you. I asked you for reads on people, can you please provide them?

Would you kindly, obey? obey. OBEY. OBEY.

Saying "go easy on me" is expecting preferential treatment! Think about that hard.

If you stop engaging with my posts I will never townread you, i think it is in your best interest to convince me that you are town. I'm willing to move past your failed noob gimmick attempt and start over! There are many ways to find out if you are scum or not.

Look, town can lie too, there are many players here that yeet all liars no matter the reasons, I disagree. Town can lie for good reasons, for dumb reasons or just because the slot is a compulsive liar that randed town (not saying that any of these are you), I wanted to see why you tried to lie about that and see if such lie can come from a town slot.
I'm not convinced you are town. tbf.

I'm looking forward to your engagement! Bring me a pelt.

This is going beyond attacking the slot at this point.
Also, MEOW!

Oh I do have a question though, what is 'shading'? Seen people use that term like 10 times this game, no idea what it means. Is it just being sketchy/shady?

Shading is like putting someone on a bad light in bad faith. It's the act of de-valuating, gaslighting and trivializing other people.

You should read this: https://forum.mafia451.com/t/10-psychol ... -mafia/739

Disagree.
Shading is the act of throwing shade and suspicion on a slot and mocking some of the content.
Gaslighting is an abuse tactic.
Devaluing evidence and reads is standard play.
Trivialising people also shouldn't be done as it can drive people down and out. Trivialise the reads and motivations, not the people.

I think Toogeloo is scummy, I just don't know if it's scummy town or just scum. I'm looking closely there but you are right, it's hard to look when the slot is not creating content.

Marky Mark, i generally town lean, but his tone sometimes is... I don't know how to explain it other than, he is either town, or a townie scum. You know like there are scummy towns? Well there are also townie scums. My gut and my brain is fighting over on whether Mark is town or a townie scum.

Noraa, I tend to agree on that one, problem is that everything else from her is bad. Specially her sudden townread on Marky after accusing him of shading and scum reading him for it.

Flea, yah fae have this gimmicky careless approach right? Wonder if that is genuine or it is staged.

Both. Literally both. This ISO is dropping the persona aspect of me and yeah I'm still acting like an idiot

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

But you boosted your Toogs read based on a smartass comment I just want to be loved damnnit!

The thing is, DGBs post says a lot. that you're unable to put the work in and see says a lot.

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

HOW DAAAAARE YOU ASK ME, MR MITTENS, TO DO SOME WORK!

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

This pings me as somewhat LAMIST

That's because im open towning.

Debatable.

Like ultimately, when I push people I want them to respond and argue with me so that I can refine my read based on their responses

This is good to know because im the same. After all, people can fake an alignment but behavioral traits come out at a subconscious level, those cant be faked.

Good argument in favour of Meta really

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

@JacksonVirgo

Hey look the kitty brought us a dead spider

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

I dont like that word, i never intent to shade when im town. I scum hunt

Scum claim! xD

Spoiler: Conclusion!

Guillotina is scum without a doubt for me. the sheer number of contradictions, laziness and demanding behaviors lead me to lockscum this slot. There's been many posts since where he's incriminated himself by being lazy, demanding others do things while he does nothing, and requesting meta information while being anti-meta.

My intention with this ISO was to investigate and confirm a scumread, and honestly nothing can save this slot from my PoV at this time.

Spoiler: Bonus post! Fluff posting comparisons!

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

OK so, DGB has said here it has no problem reading me despite my fluffiness, and in 19 pages it's found nothing wrong with my posts.

You've obviously not read the post.

Now we come to where you've accused me of only posting fluff...

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

This isn't fluff. Fluff doesn't achieve anything, this says I'm doing something and have been distracted by my kids needing me. Yeah we played Stardew, I take mental health seriously.

Has No Elim posted at all?

This is both fluff and laziness, you're aware of the tools available to see if no elim had posted and you didn't use them, instead opting to ask someone else to do your work for you and looking like you're doing something.

This is a long post which I will answer to as soon as I have time. I'll be detailed as well worry not!

[Guillotina]

1) JacksonVirgo has disagreed with me, he is still townread. Nono was in my null list, Math took over, we've disagree in pushing methods, i town read him.

Jacko is the only TR you've kept.

You only like Math cuz he TRs u hard and is currently the town leader.

Case in point, he is the town leader and he town reads me.
I townread him because he acts like how town should and I love getting townread because I am town.

[Guillotina]

I agree with Flea in something crucial that I've failed to word well. Testing the waters describes nearly HALF of guillo's posts.

So in three minutes you read all that in such detail to agree with him?

[Guillotina]

I'm happy pouring what I've got into Guillotina's elimination here.

Your energy will be wasted because that is not happening.

[Guillotina]

Phew I finished the wall. I don't agree with everything but I agree with the conclusion and I'll just leave it at that.

I retract my last reply to you, I thought you were replying to his big case on me.

[Guillotina]

I will be back later, when I'm back, it will be to post my counter to Flea's big wall case on me.

I'm sorry Flea, it's gonna take me sometime to get used to that pronoun. I'm not doing it intentionally to spite you, please know that.

[Guillotina]

Now we are talking! You went from fluff to a compiled and organized wall post with the intention to prove me scum!

Too bad I'm town so all these accusations will just bite you in the ass later on.

Now, I'm gonna answer to your case on me INSIDE the spoiler and the quotes, because it is quite a pain in the ass to try to break them up! My replies will be in green font and the quotes I'm responding to will be in blue for easy reading.

Belts on! This is a long a ride!

Flea... I'm not doing this again. Next time you break them up in more chunks or I'll just ignore them. Geezuz Christ! Now I know why day phases are so long on this site!

*Yeets nora a sandwich to munch while reading this.*

Spoiler: OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

Alright let's drop the act for this one, it's clear to me that anything less blunt and to the point commentary is going to be considered by our sharpened steel friend here.

My name is not Joseph! How dare you!

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Guillotina!!!! Ooooweeee

Yaaaah! I'm here to lighten your days yo!

Make your days grand while killing scum!

Which given these have a nice and chill vibe to them amuses me greatly

.

It amuses me that you'd take my word for it. You don't even know me.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

New to the forum right?

MINE

Yah, new to the forum.

VOTE: No Elim. But not like the user no elim, like a vote to not elim

VOTE: No elim

Ok

{. Are you new to the forum or pretending to be new to the forum?

very sad! low energy! lame!

This denotes excitement, wants to get the game going. Horsewoman, it's a 10-day Day phase game.

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

You were bored and you are probably used to fast games.

To some extent, sure. It wasn't entirely serious in tone because I rarely am.

Yah, you've been fucking around.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Not necessarily

Now this is his 4th post, and the game has moved on to page 3, almost page 4.

This is fairly

sharp

shift in tone and seems to be setting up for a SR imo.

Did you expect me to maintain my "I will ligthen your day" tone? I was not setting up HW to scumread her, I was trying to understand why she'd feel to say that she is new when the way she was playing and the terminology she uses did not come from a newbie. To me it felt like someone with experience trying to noobtell.

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

This is the post of my main read, they're not even trying to post on interactions or anything. The game right now is on page 3, nobody would really have any solid reads at all but it doesn't mean we all just give up and let other's do everything. I first read this as a joke post as I've said, which is why I brushed off Marks read but then when they made that second post I quoted said that it was at least semi-serious and that's plain anti-town behaviour and I'm not going to let that slip regardless if they're Town acting anti-town.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

And then when I called it out for being anti-town behaviour they flipped the wording to make them look like they're actively trying to push the game out of RVS and solve and in extension discredit my case, they're blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from RVS. This is just straight scummy behaviour, what Town would twist the wording in this situation for their own self-gain.

Two questions, 1) do you think HW gave up and let others do everything?

2) In your experience, do all town members behave and act upon posts the same?

Testing the waters maybe? I'm probably stretching here but this is what it feels like to me at the moment.

If you think you are probably stretching is because you are. They were legit questions to what JV posted.

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

Me too! Hey look you made a fluff post with no point to it, what's the world coming to, hm?

It is not fluff if it is contributing to solving something for someone, in this case it did for myself, I did not understand the reference so I asked to get information to understand it.

Nice try at discrediting my way of game solving.

First, if the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere is because the content of it didn't. Thank you.
Two, my deep dive allowed me deduce that you attempted to noobtell and miserably failed.
Three, makes me wonder why you tried to noobtell? Either alignment do this, but why did you?

If the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere, then you're not doing it right, quite frankly. Your deep dive was a setup for something that hasn't quite panned out and is now making you look bad.

If you want to call people out for no-contenting, then at least provide some yourself. You can always provide content from nothing.

I disagree. I prefer to group posts together and reply to them all at once, it would be easy to comment to each of them separately to produce volume (fluff) and look busy, my interest in creating the multiquote post was to refer to it later for easy access while conserving the context of the conversation at that time.

Ok well im now 99% sure I have soul read on Flea and I think they're scum. Maybe will explain why later. A bit cautious treading in this territory cuz last I SRed Flea, they were town. Gimme some time to think.

Have you explained why already?

You could just read yourself and see.

If I saw it I wouldn't have asked.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Now I like this one. "Hah you thought this point but not this point! Therefore you are scum, my dear!"

An untrained guilty mind would overlook that, she was focused on proving that she was not noobtelling, not that she was discrediting me, by not contesting it, her subconscious confirmed that she was.

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

This ones also interesting. The context has been left out, potentially leaving it to be twisted for later deeds. It's a strictly out of game comment aimed at Nora when it comes to my personality beyond the game. You then take this moment to prod me on HW.

I disagree, the context is there. You were making emphasis about how you are as a person when such a thing is not relevant to how you may be as a slot with an alignment. It looked to me that you were trying to influence our reads by depicting how you are outside of the mafia game bubble.

barely caring about other people's SRs on you(which is a newbscum tell that says they know the people SRing are right so they are avoiding)

Thinking about it, this feels like an inaccuracy - in my (limited) experience, newbscum tend to panic when people vote them rather than playing it cool like a more seasoned player. Not sure if you are stretching the truth to fit the facts here or have just had a different experience of playing with new players (entirely possible).

Btw - pagetop without even realising until I'd posted #oblivious #ImJustThatGood

This is inaccurate. NoobsScum will ignore and evade town that scum read them by instinct.

A noob town will panic because in their own perspective, they should be obvious town cause they are being honest, so when they get votes they panic because they dont understand it.

Not always. If we were children, maybe.

Ok, I can agree with not always. I'm was not a child when I started playing this and I remember when I was a noob I reacted that way, so I will agree that not always that is the case.

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

Not at all, just reflecting on my mannerisms ^_^ I am the universal parent friendo

Horsey is sus, but nothing significant as of yet.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

This is setting up for later, it's almost like gut instinct isn't allowed and I'm not allowed have my read without justification.

Why couldn't say so? "Just a gut feeling" looks like a valid answer to me.

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Why mention me specifically? This is part of a setup imo.

Because at that point I couldn't sort you, so you were null.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

I love this.
It's stupidly NAI worded xD

I don't appreciate that you call my way of playing stupid. Sure, it's NAI but your comment is spiteful.
This whole comment is also NAI

Weird.

Show us where you thought Mark was shading people.

Nah I liked his reply and now TR him. If he starts being scummy again tho, my walls of evidence will come strolling in in some tall high heels like clickety clack clack.

Maybe i was wrong townreading you. This is not how town proceeds.

VOTE: Noraa

Evidence of shading or i'll park this vote.

OBEY ME OR I'M GOING TO JUST be kinda lazy... hm.

It's called a push, you don't have to like it and honestly I don't care if you don't. She materialzed her "evidence" of shading, so it worked.

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

This is about where I’m at as well although I don’t think all three of those are scum together, I think at least one is though if that makes sense.

Yah i dont think I'm actually God of mafia and found 3 wolves in day 1. But those slots need to get sorted.

Horsewoman is obvscum! I'd yeet her first.

Potential associative? This is an extreme shift though, that pressure vote just *poof* gone faster than a fart in the wind. The vote on Noraa is now serving no purpose.

OK fine I can't help myself OK? This is why I said its half and half

Who says I can only push/solve one potential scum at a time? I could but I will not.

VOTE: horsewoman

Why?

Because she's obvscum, obviously. pfft. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Did she answered that?

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was dumb. I wasnt trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also wasnt discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

Curious again, i never said you did discredit me for any of those things, but if it is in your mind, it's because it's true.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was

smart

. I

WAS

trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also

WAS

discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is

NOT

laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

This is what you are psychologically telling me.

I like these two posts...

Literally Guillotina putting words in mouth and trying to force something that I don't think is there.

This is an impressive Deathtunnel, shame about the execution though.

It's what I interpreted from a potential scum slot.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

LOOOK AT MEEEEE! I'M MR GUUUILLLLOTIIIIIINA!!!!
Attempt at putting pressure back on Noraa, which I sadly know won't work.
"You're obvscum! And I'mma vote yoooou! except you're not so amma vote Noraa instead because she won't OBEY." (✿˘艸˘✿)

I never took pressure off Nora, I was and still am pushing both, and now I'm pushing you too, so three! I can multitask and multitasking is NAI, don't you agree?
You seem to believe that we are supposed to focus on one red flag, newsflash, some do, some don't.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

And yet there's an actual post where I literally just OMGUS'd and I got the best interaction in this game yet from it

Did Noraa froze?

Horsewoman, Llama slot and Noraa is where I'll vote today.

JK, Mark. Whom you'd most likely vote to yeet here?

See this is where I think these constant read lists are a little butt bitey. It's entirely NAI but I find it amusing that these lists are being stuck to like rigidly. There's 3 options and 3 options only. There's no information on town leans and no effort to solve outside these lists IMO.

Were not you saying that I was not focusing on Horsewoman to jump to Noraa and viceversa and that you thought that was bad, and when I focus on three people, it's bad too? Not to mention that throughout the entire day phase I addressed JV, Mark, Math, Momrangal and Vaxkiller too? At the time Noraa, Horsewoman and LlamaMama were my suspects, why wouldn't I focus on them? Like, why?

Helpful PC User EBWOP for him

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

Townie response.

Flea, are you town? Your ISO is more fluff than game solving as of now.

Two in one.
As I've said earlier, I'm fluffy af as a person.o(〃＾▽＾〃)o
My game policy is "I'm here for good time not for long time!"
You cut past the fluff I post, and

you'll find content.

You have to be

willing to work for it,

which to me at this point it's clear you're not and I get a frustrated vibe from you towards me because of all this. Partly why I've dropped most of the persona from this ISO so you can read it and not get pissed off I have quite a developed reads list at this point and have fewer nulls than you

Look inside and be afraid, of this impressive mess I've made. If you take a look now you will fiiiiiiiiind! I have done away with lies, done away with paradise, see whats going on inside my miiieeeeennnnnnnd mwahahaha

That's the thing, besides this post, I didn't find content, you procured that content after I pushed you for posting fluff! THIS POST!
It is arrogant from you to say that we should work for you so you can provide content! Town gives it willingly because we want to solve the game and win! I'm created content and move the thread with reads, pushes, tunnels and opinions in efforts to game solve! This is the right mindset. Expecting us to decipher what's fluff and what's not from you is ridiculous! Speak plainly! Get the hell out with your goddamn riddles!

Has No Elim posted at all?

Just as a friendly pointer, there's the ISO sections which let you look at players in ISOlation, and there's the Activity overview on the bottom that lets you see how active players are and how long since they last posted

As a less friendly note... this be fluff

Wow! I had not noticed the Activity Overview feature until now! Thank you! (Not sarcasm, I mean it). ISO is a bitch when someone has barely posted cause you have to find a post first to click ISO on.

Ur town play is trash then if that's how you think. OMGUSing is something nearly every newbie does but thinking it is optimal play is pretty bad.

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

The irony.

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

Also, next time I would appreciate if you did take quotes out of context, that's a very scummy thing to do. Do not worry though, I will look into the original posts for context.

Oh, my god. You suck.
A term created by wolves to discredit town pushes... but you want people to OMGUS you...
It's not a bad thing to do, honestly. and for some play styles, it's optimal. I use it occasionally because it gives me information I can work with ¡¡¡( •̀ ᴗ •́ )و!!!
But then I'm a weird player

Correct! I respect people who is not afraid to cast a reaction vote to a push they believe is unjustified, so long as they follow up on that reaction and work with me to let me see why I am wrong. If I'm a wolf and I made a scummy push on you and we are out of RVS phase and you cast a vote on me, I will try to discredit your vote with OMGUS, because OMGUS is supposed to dictate that such vote has less credibility because it is reactionary to mine! Since when whoever votes first is righter than the one that voted afterwards? You being afraid to cast that reactionary vote because you will look scummy for it can only come from scum, because they don't wanna look wolfy as OMGUS law dictates!

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

you just called urself scum lol.

Nice try! I did,'t create the term dummy. It's been on existence since way before you started playing this.

See this is why I love Nora, Nora picks up on this shiz but doesn't call it out like I do.
Gulliotina coming in with the strawman defence.

I didn't create the term OMGUS, not a strawman defense, it's a fact!

Ok so

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Flea
Nono
DGB
no elim

Scum

Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig
Toogeloo

And now we have a full reads list. All nulls included.

I'll keep my vote on Noraa, but i'm willing to come to a consensus with the people I town read to vote for someone else, as long as that someone else is in my scum list.

I like this.

"You can work with me but I'll only work with you if its in my interests!"

Now Noraa, see this? This is shading!


Flea, would you rather if i negotiated for a yeet in my town read list? How about in my null list? And why?

Double contexter, I actually quite like the response to my shade and it's AI IMO.

To answer the question, town reads not at all, null reads, yes. Absolutely yes. Your nulls should be a main focus IMO. Those are slots you need to sort. Given I've been specifically placed in your null list that means I've done something worthy of your attention, meaning I should be sorted by now. You've at best been idlying playing with your scum reads at this point and I get a lazy cat vibe from you overall.

You said it yourself! Nulls are slots we need to sort! SORT! but yeet them over those in your scum list? No! I sort them first if I cannot, they remain there until more evidence comes into play that allows to sort them. NOT BEFORE! Those in the scum list will get the axe first! Unless a wagon is formed against one of the players I town read that counters the wagon of a null, like Momrangal/Horsewoman, then yes! Null goes first!

When I put you in the null was because I was not sure if your style was scummy or you were just a town that was trolling. Hence I needed to sort you out. You went down the scummy list after though, so no worries! You are no longer a null!

I can't not say I won't read fae not aligned with anti-town.

Faer fluffy.

I agree.

You went up to null, because you are either a smartass town or God Level WIFOM Mafia.

This is not a valid read to increase the read on someone.
You don't improve a read based on WIFOM drops or someone being a smartass. WIFOM is the weapon of the foul and low.

I disagree! In this case I didn't if it was WIFOM or a careless town making it difficult for the rest of us to read him, because there are all kinds of anti-town towns too.
If I were to apply your logic, you would have gone straight to the bottom of my list, never a null.

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Nono
DGB
no elim
Toogeloo

Scum

Flea
Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig

Now we have some meat. Me and Toogs have swapped places. All I did was yeet some shade, and now I'm scum. Toogs was a smartass/WIFOM-bomber and moved up.
This progression is WEEEEERRRRIIIIIIDD!

Well, play stupid games and win stupid prizes! If you know that throwing shade is scummy, why do you? Why make it hard for us to sort you? We already have scum to find, why be the players that play like scum, adding up to our work load?

These posts are going to be your downfall... Your progression on me feels a lil weird.ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

I’m aware i can be wrong and I’m willing to be proven wrong.

Do that instead of posting fluff after fluff. Help me townread you if you are town. If you are wolf, keep doing what you are doing, i love it!

Which is manifested here. Now my posts are fluff after fluff after fluff. That lazy cat vibe is back again. I know there's content in my posts, and so do others. You just have to effort it to find it.

It's then the "Help me help you!" line... of laziness. This is more refusal to do anything and condemning me because of how I play the game. It's another case of "OBEY ME OR ELSE (i'm just going to be lazy and just like.. fluff push you I guess?)".

No! You are not the center of the universe! You are not the only player we need to sort! Make it easy or get in my PoE! Plain and simple!

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Confused why you would pick out Flea specifically as being null (as opposed to the other 9 players implicitly null by not being in your list)?

At the time i had no impressions about others. Only those names.

Flea gave me mixed feelings then, so null.

I still find it odd I was mentioned and looking at it, it looks like a setup for later to me.

Sorry but this is scum paranoia! Why you think you are being setup?

Look I'll put it this way. If I were scum and you were town, I'D LET YOU BE! You are doing all the work for wolves! Wolves don't go after fluffy, conflictive, scummy players! Not on D1, wolves use them to wreck havoc in the thread, they pocket players like you, strive to take them to final five and then turn everything you did against you for a decisive win!

If you are town, you are not in danger of being setup to get yeeted now. I just don't think you are town.

Scum reads have to come from somewhere, and I'm not fond of people picking on low hanging fruit

Who is the LHF here?

+1

I've not quoted the follow up posts but its great to have guillotine on the same wavelength (

unless its a pocket

ofc )

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

Cheeky naked vote on consensus SR. Have some scumpoints.

Pig and Nono's 0-context votes seem sus to me, especially when we are getting beyond RVS

Both of these two were V/LA at the time of his push

Yeah, nah. Try harder please. Both dropped a no-context vote

prior

to going V/LA, when the game was getting well beyond RVS. This is a behaviour that is scummy, so I called it out. Would it have been better to ignore it?

Btw lol, I'm loving JV and Guillotine taking Noraa to task on their push on me, before I've replied. Welcome to the

Marky Mark entourage guy

s :3

First bold, if it is a pocket, it’s a town pocket so do not worry. Unless you are wolf, then you should worry as town do pocket wolves too.

Second bold, i know what you are implying here and I love it because that thought process could only come from town.

IIoA-ish. Also I'm glad you know what you meant with the second bold, because I don't.

I think what Mark implied there is that maybe JV and me were buddying up to pocket him, which if both of us were wolf, it would look that way! That thought process was townie to me then.

Horsewoman raised several red flags before i said “definitely scum”.

Do you suggest i pace myself down though?

I'm not seeing them though, and not as being called out from you... You've been on HW since the start of the day with saying she's scummy.

I produce content and reads to allow you to see it! It's all there! use the ISO and the... other menu you told me that I forgot already and help yourself!

@mark I understand. Still believe HW is scum and until she towns up, she is not getting out of my list.

PFFT. You keep repeating that yet ur vote's on me. LOL.

You got a point. I did say my vote would go to HW if you answered my questions about Mark's shading posts.

I'm a man of my word.

VOTE: Horsewoman

You are still in my scum list though.

I freaking love Nora, she is my kinda chaos - and this to me is one of the definitions of OMGUS, called out for something and bites back.

Town can OMGUS, wolves call out OMGUS.

I said that i would be judging the game based on this game's actions. So any kind of meta is irrelevant to me including people's self meta.

This is worth noting because....

Flea - I wish you'd stop using so many spoiler tags. It makes it easy to miss the content of your posts, which are pretty good.

Early posting looks like honest scum hunting.

Town for now.

Toog - I'm fine with any votes for horse.

But the early serious vote smells of bussing.

Then again maybe I'm just paranoid.

First bold, what early posts from Flea looked like scum hunting? Maybe you are seeing something I'm not.

Second bold, do you really believe there is utility for scum to bus a teammate on D1, when it's really easy to try to do anything else but that? Have you played as scum before?

I think a lot of people are seeing things you're not and there's ALWAYS utility to bus. For someone who has just thrown meta out of the window, why are you interested if someones played a game as an alignment before? That is a form of meta.

Because I was not interested in the meta of the slot in a game, but in the experience of that player as scum.

Well for one, i purposely change my meta in every game, that way noone can reference meta about me and have to solve me base on the game im playing. Two, I was extremely arrogant and irresponsible in SirCakez game, i FPS, but I'm not ready to do that again in a community where I'm new at, so, you get standard focused Guillo in this one.

"I AM UNREEEEEEAAAAAADABLEEEE!!! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH*coughcoughsplutter*
Sadly as someone who uses a persona to play this game and avoid meta, patterns will always emerge no matter how you try and play. Oh, and self-meta is here

Sorry nornor, that means your soul reads on me aren't on me but on the person and will probably always be wrong <3

Why do I get the feeling I'm playing with a damn Jester? Fuck your mocking tone!!

Patterns can emerge but I play in way that people can sort me through my actions when I'm town, or where I can mislead them through my actions when I scum. It's my playstyle, hate the play not the player.

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

You're voting away from your 99% soul-read on scum!flea again? Can you explain why you're doing that and why you're voting them when I think they're fairly townie + you give no reasonings here.

Noraa town reads Flea now.

IIoA. Not only that, it's putting words in her mouth. This looks like framing to me.

False! She did say she townread you WTF??! If she didn't JV would have followed up on that and push me for it!

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Help me see it. Do me a point by point of why I might be wrong about HW.

MEEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!!

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

So is this, honestly. Yes it's NAI and doing nothing in and of itself, however, it's still doing something. I'm not going to explain it to you though, you're a lazy butt.

Ok, it was fluff, i can produce fluff here and there, not all the time like you. Plus, it was fluff to point out the ridiculous amount of fluff you had been posting.

Just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it isn't there.

I'm not seeing them though, and not as being called out from you... You've been on HW since the start of the day with saying she's scummy.

Back at you.

Noraa is either scum playing dumb or a Naive Town.

Non-commital and sitting on a fence. This right here, is a fluff post. I'll do a comparison after this.

I mean I'm pretty sure horse is new *to this site* but not new to mafia in general. isn't that misleading imo but I can see where the confusion comes from and why someone might misinterpret it as her trying to pull a newb card.

She specifically said " hi, I'm new! Go easy on me"

I made an entire wall about how that was more likely to come from scum

I mean if she's new to this site, she's not familiar with site meta and stuff like that. I find it not crazy to ask for people to go easy on her.

Yeah I just wanted you all not to call me names and stuff, I dont know anyone here is the thing.

Also sorry for not posting anything substantive in aaages, couple of bad mental health days. Sadly the streak will continue as I will be unable to post anything substantive for some hours now.

I'm gonna look like an asshole, but this sounds a lot like AtE. I hope you do get better but I still suspect this slot.

Yes, yes you do. If someone says their mental health is crap you don't throw it at them as AtE to get out of something. Anyone using that as an excuse honestly deserves to be in the bin.

I myself have several conditions that affect my ability to play as much as I would like and people have simply said "No worries, catch up when you can. If you're able are you able to answer these questions for me?"

We all have probelms, I got health problems too so? How is that relevant for the game?

We're good folk here <3

Yah, I can see your halo from here.

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like

why bother

stating the obvious assumption being drawn here

when we can all see

what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Also, this did feel like shading. I don't believe you are an idiot if you are playing this game so I don't believe your question was a real one. Then you state that we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey. Who is all? Did you ask each and every one of us to come to that conclusion?

For someone doing absolutely bare minimum themselves, this is a big ask.

Reading that while replying to your big ass wall post here, makes me want to throw a metaphorical boulder on your head.

I don't have much of a read on that slot, so vote and see.

Nah, I'm not voting outside my scum list, but!

We can scrutinize!

@Momrangal

You scumread Horsewoman and I agree.

Who else do you scum read? Who do you town read?
And more importantly, why?

GIT IN MAH POKIT!

IN MAH TOWN POKIT

I also wanna point out, theres been no reads lists recently.

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

Now this is revealing.

Care to share games where she's done this. It would be great if you can share a game where she was town and another one where she was mafia and she did this. Because then I could treat it as a behavior pattern rather than an AI.

Dude this is my second game of MS mafia and the first is ongoing.

I'm talking about the alleged "Outside of MS games". Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Damn I wish I could stretch this well...

Meaning?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Bro you talking like i was trying to hide my mafia experience (which was 72 hour day phases and really casual) but I immediately said I had experience when asked even though i easily could have pretended to be totally new as the forum i played on is now down and I didnt even use this username so nobody was catching me

Wrong, you can't say that you could have easily pretended to be totally new, when it only took two posts to catch you. Let's put it this way, you might be a seasoned player but you are a terrible liar, the problem here is, why you tried to lie to us?

this is beautiful, I think amma cry :')

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

This is a train of thought that I have seen many times that basically goes 'only mafia would care about being lynched/treated badly'. Completely wrong! Being mislynched sucks on an emotional level and it also hurts town on a game level! Town have a huge interest in not being lynched.

See this is what I'm talking about? You want us to town read you but you take posts out of context and AtE to try to get us to not push you, which makes me want to push you more. She is talking about, why would any of us would take it easy on you because you are new? Why would we believe that you are new? Why do we care that you are new or experienced? There are games for newbies here. You could have signed to one of those but you chose to sign up for a no-newbies game, which is fine! But don't expect preferential treatment.

Being myslynched sucks, but that is what towns are destined to be, some of us will have to die, so others can get info out of our deaths and solve the game. Don't take it personally, it is part of the game, don't act like it is not.

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

I will lose my mind, make it real this tiiiiime, to leave it all behind. I won't cry wolf.
Show me a sign, planets will align,
I'm gunna blow my mind. I won't, cry wolf.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

i didn't vote for you because hardcore, ridiculous irrational tunneling usually comes from town, which is what you're doing.

Stop this! We are past that unless you want me to keep tunneling you. I asked you for reads on people, can you please provide them?

Would you kindly, obey? obey. OBEY. OBEY.

I guess you'd rather me keep tunneling her then? Do you find issue with me willing to work things out with Horsewoman?

Saying "go easy on me" is expecting preferential treatment! Think about that hard.

If you stop engaging with my posts I will never townread you, i think it is in your best interest to convince me that you are town. I'm willing to move past your failed noob gimmick attempt and start over! There are many ways to find out if you are scum or not.

Look, town can lie too, there are many players here that yeet all liars no matter the reasons, I disagree. Town can lie for good reasons, for dumb reasons or just because the slot is a compulsive liar that randed town (not saying that any of these are you), I wanted to see why you tried to lie about that and see if such lie can come from a town slot.
I'm not convinced you are town. tbf.

I'm looking forward to your engagement! Bring me a pelt.

This is going beyond attacking the slot at this point.
Also, MEOW!

I don't see it

Oh I do have a question though, what is 'shading'? Seen people use that term like 10 times this game, no idea what it means. Is it just being sketchy/shady?

Shading is like putting someone on a bad light in bad faith. It's the act of de-valuating, gaslighting and trivializing other people.

You should read this: https://forum.mafia451.com/t/10-psychol ... -mafia/739

Disagree.
Shading is the act of throwing shade and suspicion on a slot and

mocking some of the content

.

Gaslighting is an abuse tactic.

Devaluing evidence and reads is standard play.

Trivialising people also shouldn't be done as it can drive people down and out. Trivialise the reads and motivations, not the people.

Devaluating evidence and reads is standard scum play! Yes! Mocking of the content? See my comment about you mocking me!

I think Toogeloo is scummy, I just don't know if it's scummy town or just scum. I'm looking closely there but you are right, it's hard to look when the slot is not creating content.

Marky Mark, i generally town lean, but his tone sometimes is... I don't know how to explain it other than, he is either town, or a townie scum. You know like there are scummy towns? Well there are also townie scums. My gut and my brain is fighting over on whether Mark is town or a townie scum.

Noraa, I tend to agree on that one, problem is that everything else from her is bad. Specially her sudden townread on Marky after accusing him of shading and scum reading him for it.

Flea, yah fae have this gimmicky careless approach right? Wonder if that is genuine or it is staged.

Both. Literally both. This ISO is dropping the persona aspect of me and yeah I'm still acting like an idiot

Huh! This been a persona all this time?

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

But you boosted your Toogs read based on a smartass comment I just want to be loved damnnit!

The thing is, DGBs post says a lot. that you're unable to put the work in and see says a lot.

Toogs ended up at the bottom of my list with you, Toogs is not exactly the slot you wanna mimic. Buy hey, you do you!

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

HOW DAAAAARE YOU ASK ME, MR MITTENS, TO DO SOME WORK!

I produce the back up soon after, your point?

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

This pings me as somewhat LAMIST

That's because im open towning.

Debatable.

Nope, I'm town! That is not up for debate

Like ultimately, when I push people I want them to respond and argue with me so that I can refine my read based on their responses

This is good to know because im the same. After all, people can fake an alignment but behavioral traits come out at a subconscious level, those cant be faked.

Good argument in favour of Meta really

I don't solve based on Meta but others do, so?

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

@JacksonVirgo

Hey look the kitty brought us a dead spider

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

I dont like that word, i never intent to shade when im town. I scum hunt

Scum claim! xD

No! Town claim, it means that if I end up shading someone, it is not intentional. TOWN CLAIM! BOOOOOM!

[Guillotina]

I can’t read the green. Can you tldr what your opinion was on Flavor Leaf?

Just change the forum theme temporarily? My forum skin is black.

I don't know what to say about Flea, they could just be too scummy to be scum, or they just are. The list had a very ill intended approach to discredit me and put me on a bad light. I'm not moving them out of my scum list for the time being. They get the Axe for now.

[Guillotina]

Also after reading some posts from Horse, I'm no longer sure she should be yeeted. I need to reread her with a refreshed mind.

UNVOTE: Horsewoman

That long post drained me. I'll be back later.

Horsewoman is in my null list and I'd yeet Noraa, Toogeloo or Flea over her as of now.

[Guillotina]

A lot of people saying 'we should flip someone just for information'. Anti-town moindset in my opinion, always try to get scum from day 1 because this is our only opportunity. Also the information gained from people flipping is usually garbage and unreliable.

Who said we should flip someone just for information? I missed that, I've been looking all over and can't find it.

[Guillotina]

He's being very blatant about sheeping me, which I have noticed. I certainly don't think he would tie himself to me so clearly if we were both scum. Maybe he is and he's trying to pocket me or something. But I'm not sure.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but this is only my 4th game, what is sheeping?

Sheeping = blatantly following another person and/or recycling their arguments

Math, I'm not feeling it with Horsewoman anymore man. What do you think about Toogeloo as the alternative?

[Guillotina]

Also @Infinity what's your read on Toogeloo as of now?

[Guillotina]

I don’t understand why you’re bailing on horse. The points are more prevalent now then they were then.

She's made decent posts that felt townie lately. Like she's been so busy defending herself from us (me specially), so she didn't have a lot of time to contribute to game solving as a result, but the times she's had the chance to in the last 8 pages or so, it feels like they could come from town. I don't know if I'm just being naive but I don't wanna deathtunnel her. She towned up and I wanna give her another chance.

While Toogeloo... that aweful vote after Momrangal claimed Mason looks aweful.

Infinity at least has an excuse for keeping the vote on Mom, like Infinity thought Mom was joking with a claim and as soon as Momrangal confirmed it was serious, Infinity unvoted.
I also looked into Infinity's ISO and the posts feel generally townie.

Toogeloo in the other hand, the posts of that slot does not give me town vibes and again, they voted Mom right after she claimed Mason.

[Guillotina]

As a matter of fact, I'm voting there, then sleep on it.

Toogeloo

Good night guys

[Guillotina]

Vote fail

VOTE: Toogeloo

[Guillotina]

I don't particularly scum was anyone too heavily.

We need a good ole fashion wagon to generate real reads.

You just ignore the fact that someone claimed mason and toog decided to put them at E-1 right after?

Post #1: I'm <insert role here>, hahaha
Post#2: srs tho, <insert reason here>
Seemed legit.

Not sure how a wagon of 5 equals L-1, but I haven't taken 1st grade math in years, so I might need a refresher.

I'm all about wagons right now though,

so I got where the votes take me. Like a leaf in the wind.

They are ok with yeeting just anyone to generate real reads, they voted the Mason, and his ISO shows complete disinterest for game solving so, so why not just yeet him? Let's generate those real reads with his flip.

[Guillotina]

A lot of people saying 'we should flip someone just for information'. Anti-town moindset in my opinion, always try to get scum from day 1 because this is our only opportunity. Also the information gained from people flipping is usually garbage and unreliable.

Who said we should flip someone just for information? I missed that, I've been looking all over and can't find it.

@Horsewoman are you ignoring this post?

[Guillotina]

I dont see it, point me to it please.

[Guillotina]

I dont see where they say "We should flip someone just for information". @Horsewoman

[Guillotina]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Sheeping

This wiki is a huge help

Thanks

Do you have any reads? You got only 8 posts, I hate game coasters and I'm losing patience.
Step it up!

[Guillotina]

Hey all - this pace is getting a bit ridiculous.

Pig's lack of analysis/scrutiny continues on - would be really good to get some reads from them

I'm not really getting Math's argument in 1250 that not ending the day early would risk exposing the masons. I mean it's true in the general sense that the more posts that happen, the more information that is out there, which should in theory make PRs and scum both easier to identify, but I don't see how the mason factor affects this, and it concerns me that he is trying to use dodgy logic to get an elim through quickly. Tbf, we are 3 days away from deadline tho so in his defence we probably ought to start bringing things together

While Toogeloo... that aweful vote after Momrangal claimed Mason looks aweful.

Infinity at least has an excuse for keeping the vote on Mom, like Infinity thought Mom was joking with a claim and as soon as Momrangal confirmed it was serious, Infinity unvoted.
I also looked into Infinity's ISO and the posts feel generally townie.

Toogeloo in the other hand, the posts of that slot does not give me town vibes and again, they voted Mom right after she claimed Mason.

hey are ok with yeeting just anyone to generate real reads, they voted the Mason, and his ISO shows complete disinterest for game solving so, so why not just yeet him? Let's generate those real reads with his flip.

These two posts from guillo in tandem stood out to me as the first very much frames their push on toog from a SRing angle, whereas the second seems to phrase it more as a bit of SR but also semi-policy as they aren't making an effort to solve and to see what info we get from the flip

@Guillo - where does your toog vote stand on the spectrum between being SR-based and being policy/utility based?

On the toog note, I've already articulated why I find them scummy and I would like to see a wagon there today so that we can dive into that a bit more. I am, however, willing to be pragmatic and will look for a consensus vote (ideally one that fits with my POE) by the end of today to ensure we have time for due process, if the toog wagon isn't going anywhere or if toog starts towning it up and actually solving

Definitely not a policy yeet read. I dont do policy yeet suggestions unless it is obvious they are trying to gamethrow.

I scum read them. I must note that they give me suicidal vibes, like they are aware how it looks and they don't care, seems like they are baiting themselves to get yeeted. If you look into their ISO there is a post where they say something along the lines of “i considered eliminating you after myself” (this is totally a paraphrase).
So i don't know if they are scum WIFOMing, scum who have given up or a suicidal 3P.

He is definitely anti-town.

[Guillotina]

*Yeets nora a sandwich to munch while reading this.*

Spoiler: OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

Alright let's drop the act for this one, it's clear to me that anything less blunt and to the point commentary is going to be considered by our sharpened steel friend here.

My name is not Joseph! How dare you!

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Guillotina!!!! Ooooweeee

Yaaaah! I'm here to lighten your days yo!

Make your days grand while killing scum!

Which given these have a nice and chill vibe to them amuses me greatly.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

New to the forum right?

MINE

Yah, new to the forum.

VOTE: No Elim. But not like the user no elim, like a vote to not elim

VOTE: No elim

Ok

{. Are you new to the forum or pretending to be new to the forum?

very sad! low energy! lame!

This denotes excitement, wants to get the game going. Horsewoman, it's a 10-day Day phase game.

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

You were bored and you are probably used to fast games.

To some extent, sure. It wasn't entirely serious in tone because I rarely am.

Yah, you've been fucking around.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Not necessarily

Now this is his 4th post, and the game has moved on to page 3, almost page 4.

This is fairly

sharp

shift in tone and seems to be setting up for a SR imo.

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

This is the post of my main read, they're not even trying to post on interactions or anything. The game right now is on page 3, nobody would really have any solid reads at all but it doesn't mean we all just give up and let other's do everything. I first read this as a joke post as I've said, which is why I brushed off Marks read but then when they made that second post I quoted said that it was at least semi-serious and that's plain anti-town behaviour and I'm not going to let that slip regardless if they're Town acting anti-town.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

And then when I called it out for being anti-town behaviour they flipped the wording to make them look like they're actively trying to push the game out of RVS and solve and in extension discredit my case, they're blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from RVS. This is just straight scummy behaviour, what Town would twist the wording in this situation for their own self-gain.

Two questions, 1) do you think HW gave up and let others do everything?

2) In your experience, do all town members behave and act upon posts the same?

Testing the waters maybe? I'm probably stretching here but this is what it feels like to me at the moment.

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

Me too! Hey look you made a fluff post with no point to it, what's the world coming to, hm?

Nice try at discrediting my way of game solving.

First, if the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere is because the content of it didn't. Thank you.
Two, my deep dive allowed me deduce that you attempted to noobtell and miserably failed.
Three, makes me wonder why you tried to noobtell? Either alignment do this, but why did you?

If the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere, then you're not doing it right, quite frankly. Your deep dive was a setup for something that hasn't quite panned out and is now making you look bad.

If you want to call people out for no-contenting, then at least provide some yourself. You can always provide content from nothing.

Ok well im now 99% sure I have soul read on Flea and I think they're scum. Maybe will explain why later. A bit cautious treading in this territory cuz last I SRed Flea, they were town. Gimme some time to think.

Have you explained why already?

You could just read yourself and see.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Now I like this one. "Hah you thought this point but not this point! Therefore you are scum, my dear!"

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

This ones also interesting. The context has been left out, potentially leaving it to be twisted for later deeds. It's a strictly out of game comment aimed at Nora when it comes to my personality beyond the game. You then take this moment to prod me on HW.

barely caring about other people's SRs on you(which is a newbscum tell that says they know the people SRing are right so they are avoiding)

Thinking about it, this feels like an inaccuracy - in my (limited) experience, newbscum tend to panic when people vote them rather than playing it cool like a more seasoned player. Not sure if you are stretching the truth to fit the facts here or have just had a different experience of playing with new players (entirely possible).

Btw - pagetop without even realising until I'd posted #oblivious #ImJustThatGood

This is inaccurate. NoobsScum will ignore and evade town that scum read them by instinct.

A noob town will panic because in their own perspective, they should be obvious town cause they are being honest, so when they get votes they panic because they dont understand it.

Not always. If we were children, maybe.

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

Not at all, just reflecting on my mannerisms ^_^ I am the universal parent friendo

Horsey is sus, but nothing significant as of yet.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

This is setting up for later, it's almost like gut instinct isn't allowed and I'm not allowed have my read without justification.

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Why mention me specifically? This is part of a setup imo.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

I love this.
It's stupidly NAI worded xD

Weird.

Show us where you thought Mark was shading people.

Nah I liked his reply and now TR him. If he starts being scummy again tho, my walls of evidence will come strolling in in some tall high heels like clickety clack clack.

Maybe i was wrong townreading you. This is not how town proceeds.

VOTE: Noraa

Evidence of shading or i'll park this vote.

OBEY ME OR I'M GOING TO JUST be kinda lazy... hm.

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

This is about where I’m at as well although I don’t think all three of those are scum together, I think at least one is though if that makes sense.

Yah i dont think I'm actually God of mafia and found 3 wolves in day 1. But those slots need to get sorted.

Horsewoman is obvscum! I'd yeet her first.

Potential associative? This is an extreme shift though, that pressure vote just *poof* gone faster than a fart in the wind. The vote on Noraa is now serving no purpose.

OK fine I can't help myself OK? This is why I said its half and half

VOTE: horsewoman

Why?

Because she's obvscum, obviously. pfft. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was dumb. I wasnt trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also wasnt discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

Curious again, i never said you did discredit me for any of those things, but if it is in your mind, it's because it's true.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was

smart

. I

WAS

trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also

WAS

discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is

NOT

laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

This is what you are psychologically telling me.

I like these two posts...

Literally Guillotina putting words in mouth and trying to force something that I don't think is there.

This is an impressive Deathtunnel, shame about the execution though.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

LOOOK AT MEEEEE! I'M MR GUUUILLLLOTIIIIIINA!!!!
Attempt at putting pressure back on Noraa, which I sadly know won't work.
"You're obvscum! And I'mma vote yoooou! except you're not so amma vote Noraa instead because she won't OBEY." (✿˘艸˘✿)

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

And yet there's an actual post where I literally just OMGUS'd and I got the best interaction in this game yet from it

Did Noraa froze?

Horsewoman, Llama slot and Noraa is where I'll vote today.

JK, Mark. Whom you'd most likely vote to yeet here?

See this is where I think these constant read lists are a little butt bitey. It's entirely NAI but I find it amusing that these lists are being stuck to like rigidly. There's 3 options and 3 options only. There's no information on town leans and no effort to solve outside these lists IMO.

Helpful PC User EBWOP for him

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

Townie response.

Flea, are you town? Your ISO is more fluff than game solving as of now.

Two in one.
As I've said earlier, I'm fluffy af as a person.o(〃＾▽＾〃)o
My game policy is "I'm here for good time not for long time!"
You cut past the fluff I post, and you'll find content. You have to be willing to work for it, which to me at this point it's clear you're not and I get a frustrated vibe from you towards me because of all this. Partly why I've dropped most of the persona from this ISO so you can read it and not get pissed off I have quite a developed reads list at this point and have fewer nulls than you

Look inside and be afraid, of this impressive mess I've made. If you take a look now you will fiiiiiiiiind! I have done away with lies, done away with paradise, see whats going on inside my miiieeeeennnnnnnd mwahahaha

Has No Elim posted at all?

Just as a friendly pointer, there's the ISO sections which let you look at players in ISOlation, and there's the Activity overview on the bottom that lets you see how active players are and how long since they last posted

As a less friendly note... this be fluff

Ur town play is trash then if that's how you think. OMGUSing is something nearly every newbie does but thinking it is optimal play is pretty bad.

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

The irony.

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

Also, next time I would appreciate if you did take quotes out of context, that's a very scummy thing to do. Do not worry though, I will look into the original posts for context.

Oh, my god. You suck.
A term created by wolves to discredit town pushes... but you want people to OMGUS you...
It's not a bad thing to do, honestly. and for some play styles, it's optimal. I use it occasionally because it gives me information I can work with ¡¡¡( •̀ ᴗ •́ )و!!!
But then I'm a weird player

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

you just called urself scum lol.

Nice try! I did,'t create the term dummy. It's been on existence since way before you started playing this.

See this is why I love Nora, Nora picks up on this shiz but doesn't call it out like I do.
Gulliotina coming in with the strawman defence.

Ok so

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Flea
Nono
DGB
no elim

Scum

Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig
Toogeloo

And now we have a full reads list. All nulls included.

I'll keep my vote on Noraa, but i'm willing to come to a consensus with the people I town read to vote for someone else, as long as that someone else is in my scum list.

I like this.

"You can work with me but I'll only work with you if its in my interests!"

Now Noraa, see this? This is shading!


Flea, would you rather if i negotiated for a yeet in my town read list? How about in my null list? And why?

Double contexter, I actually quite like the response to my shade and it's AI IMO.

To answer the question, town reads not at all, null reads, yes. Absolutely yes. Your nulls should be a main focus IMO. Those are slots you need to sort. Given I've been specifically placed in your null list that means I've done something worthy of your attention, meaning I should be sorted by now. You've at best been idlying playing with your scum reads at this point and I get a lazy cat vibe from you overall.

I can't not say I won't read fae not aligned with anti-town.

Faer fluffy.

I agree.

You went up to null, because you are either a smartass town or God Level WIFOM Mafia.

This is not a valid read to increase the read on someone.
You don't improve a read based on WIFOM drops or someone being a smartass. WIFOM is the weapon of the foul and low.

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Nono
DGB
no elim
Toogeloo

Scum

Flea
Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig

Now we have some meat. Me and Toogs have swapped places. All I did was yeet some shade, and now I'm scum. Toogs was a smartass/WIFOM-bomber and moved up.
This progression is WEEEEERRRRIIIIIIDD!

These posts are going to be your downfall... Your progression on me feels a lil weird.ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

I’m aware i can be wrong and I’m willing to be proven wrong.

Do that instead of posting fluff after fluff. Help me townread you if you are town. If you are wolf, keep doing what you are doing, i love it!

Which is manifested here. Now my posts are fluff after fluff after fluff. That lazy cat vibe is back again. I know there's content in my posts, and so do others. You just have to effort it to find it.

It's then the "Help me help you!" line... of laziness. This is more refusal to do anything and condemning me because of how I play the game. It's another case of "OBEY ME OR ELSE (i'm just going to be lazy and just like.. fluff push you I guess?)".

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Confused why you would pick out Flea specifically as being null (as opposed to the other 9 players implicitly null by not being in your list)?

At the time i had no impressions about others. Only those names.

Flea gave me mixed feelings then, so null.

I still find it odd I was mentioned and looking at it, it looks like a setup for later to me.

Scum reads have to come from somewhere, and I'm not fond of people picking on low hanging fruit

Who is the LHF here?

+1

I've not quoted the follow up posts but its great to have guillotine on the same wavelength (

unless its a pocket

ofc )

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

Cheeky naked vote on consensus SR. Have some scumpoints.

Pig and Nono's 0-context votes seem sus to me, especially when we are getting beyond RVS

Both of these two were V/LA at the time of his push

Yeah, nah. Try harder please. Both dropped a no-context vote

prior

to going V/LA, when the game was getting well beyond RVS. This is a behaviour that is scummy, so I called it out. Would it have been better to ignore it?

Btw lol, I'm loving JV and Guillotine taking Noraa to task on their push on me, before I've replied. Welcome to the

Marky Mark entourage guy

s :3

First bold, if it is a pocket, it’s a town pocket so do not worry. Unless you are wolf, then you should worry as town do pocket wolves too.

Second bold, i know what you are implying here and I love it because that thought process could only come from town.

IIoA-ish. Also I'm glad you know what you meant with the second bold, because I don't.

Horsewoman raised several red flags before i said “definitely scum”.

Do you suggest i pace myself down though?

I'm not seeing them though, and not as being called out from you... You've been on HW since the start of the day with saying she's scummy.

@mark I understand. Still believe HW is scum and until she towns up, she is not getting out of my list.

PFFT. You keep repeating that yet ur vote's on me. LOL.

You got a point. I did say my vote would go to HW if you answered my questions about Mark's shading posts.

I'm a man of my word.

VOTE: Horsewoman

You are still in my scum list though.

I freaking love Nora, she is my kinda chaos - and this to me is one of the definitions of OMGUS, called out for something and bites back.

I said that i would be judging the game based on this game's actions. So any kind of meta is irrelevant to me including people's self meta.

This is worth noting because....

Flea - I wish you'd stop using so many spoiler tags. It makes it easy to miss the content of your posts, which are pretty good.

Early posting looks like honest scum hunting.

Town for now.

Toog - I'm fine with any votes for horse.

But the early serious vote smells of bussing.

Then again maybe I'm just paranoid.

First bold, what early posts from Flea looked like scum hunting? Maybe you are seeing something I'm not.

Second bold, do you really believe there is utility for scum to bus a teammate on D1, when it's really easy to try to do anything else but that? Have you played as scum before?

I think a lot of people are seeing things you're not and there's ALWAYS utility to bus. For someone who has just thrown meta out of the window, why are you interested if someones played a game as an alignment before? That is a form of meta.

Well for one, i purposely change my meta in every game, that way noone can reference meta about me and have to solve me base on the game im playing. Two, I was extremely arrogant and irresponsible in SirCakez game, i FPS, but I'm not ready to do that again in a community where I'm new at, so, you get standard focused Guillo in this one.

"I AM UNREEEEEEAAAAAADABLEEEE!!! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH*coughcoughsplutter*
Sadly as someone who uses a persona to play this game and avoid meta, patterns will always emerge no matter how you try and play. Oh, and self-meta is here

Sorry nornor, that means your soul reads on me aren't on me but on the person and will probably always be wrong <3

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

You're voting away from your 99% soul-read on scum!flea again? Can you explain why you're doing that and why you're voting them when I think they're fairly townie + you give no reasonings here.

Noraa town reads Flea now.

IIoA. Not only that, it's putting words in her mouth. This looks like framing to me.

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Help me see it. Do me a point by point of why I might be wrong about HW.

MEEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!!

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

So is this, honestly. Yes it's NAI and doing nothing in and of itself, however, it's still doing something. I'm not going to explain it to you though, you're a lazy butt.

Just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Noraa is either scum playing dumb or a Naive Town.

Non-commital and sitting on a fence. This right here, is a fluff post. I'll do a comparison after this.

I mean I'm pretty sure horse is new *to this site* but not new to mafia in general. isn't that misleading imo but I can see where the confusion comes from and why someone might misinterpret it as her trying to pull a newb card.

She specifically said " hi, I'm new! Go easy on me"

I made an entire wall about how that was more likely to come from scum

I mean if she's new to this site, she's not familiar with site meta and stuff like that. I find it not crazy to ask for people to go easy on her.

Yeah I just wanted you all not to call me names and stuff, I dont know anyone here is the thing.

Also sorry for not posting anything substantive in aaages, couple of bad mental health days. Sadly the streak will continue as I will be unable to post anything substantive for some hours now.

I'm gonna look like an asshole, but this sounds a lot like AtE. I hope you do get better but I still suspect this slot.

Yes, yes you do. If someone says their mental health is crap you don't throw it at them as AtE to get out of something. Anyone using that as an excuse honestly deserves to be in the bin.

I myself have several conditions that affect my ability to play as much as I would like and people have simply said "No worries, catch up when you can. If you're able are you able to answer these questions for me?"

We're good folk here <3

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like

why bother

stating the obvious assumption being drawn here

when we can all see

what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Also, this did feel like shading. I don't believe you are an idiot if you are playing this game so I don't believe your question was a real one. Then you state that we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey. Who is all? Did you ask each and every one of us to come to that conclusion?

For someone doing absolutely bare minimum themselves, this is a big ask.

I don't have much of a read on that slot, so vote and see.

Nah, I'm not voting outside my scum list, but!

We can scrutinize!

@Momrangal

You scumread Horsewoman and I agree.

Who else do you scum read? Who do you town read?
And more importantly, why?

GIT IN MAH POKIT!

I also wanna point out, theres been no reads lists recently.

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

Now this is revealing.

Care to share games where she's done this. It would be great if you can share a game where she was town and another one where she was mafia and she did this. Because then I could treat it as a behavior pattern rather than an AI.

Dude this is my second game of MS mafia and the first is ongoing.

I'm talking about the alleged "Outside of MS games". Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Damn I wish I could stretch this well...

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Bro you talking like i was trying to hide my mafia experience (which was 72 hour day phases and really casual) but I immediately said I had experience when asked even though i easily could have pretended to be totally new as the forum i played on is now down and I didnt even use this username so nobody was catching me

Wrong, you can't say that you could have easily pretended to be totally new, when it only took two posts to catch you. Let's put it this way, you might be a seasoned player but you are a terrible liar, the problem here is, why you tried to lie to us?

this is beautiful, I think amma cry :')

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

This is a train of thought that I have seen many times that basically goes 'only mafia would care about being lynched/treated badly'. Completely wrong! Being mislynched sucks on an emotional level and it also hurts town on a game level! Town have a huge interest in not being lynched.

See this is what I'm talking about? You want us to town read you but you take posts out of context and AtE to try to get us to not push you, which makes me want to push you more. She is talking about, why would any of us would take it easy on you because you are new? Why would we believe that you are new? Why do we care that you are new or experienced? There are games for newbies here. You could have signed to one of those but you chose to sign up for a no-newbies game, which is fine! But don't expect preferential treatment.

Being myslynched sucks, but that is what towns are destined to be, some of us will have to die, so others can get info out of our deaths and solve the game. Don't take it personally, it is part of the game, don't act like it is not.

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

I will lose my mind, make it real this tiiiiime, to leave it all behind. I won't cry wolf.
Show me a sign, planets will align,
I'm gunna blow my mind. I won't, cry wolf.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

i didn't vote for you because hardcore, ridiculous irrational tunneling usually comes from town, which is what you're doing.

Stop this! We are past that unless you want me to keep tunneling you. I asked you for reads on people, can you please provide them?

Would you kindly, obey? obey. OBEY. OBEY.

Saying "go easy on me" is expecting preferential treatment! Think about that hard.

If you stop engaging with my posts I will never townread you, i think it is in your best interest to convince me that you are town. I'm willing to move past your failed noob gimmick attempt and start over! There are many ways to find out if you are scum or not.

Look, town can lie too, there are many players here that yeet all liars no matter the reasons, I disagree. Town can lie for good reasons, for dumb reasons or just because the slot is a compulsive liar that randed town (not saying that any of these are you), I wanted to see why you tried to lie about that and see if such lie can come from a town slot.
I'm not convinced you are town. tbf.

I'm looking forward to your engagement! Bring me a pelt.

This is going beyond attacking the slot at this point.
Also, MEOW!

Oh I do have a question though, what is 'shading'? Seen people use that term like 10 times this game, no idea what it means. Is it just being sketchy/shady?

Shading is like putting someone on a bad light in bad faith. It's the act of de-valuating, gaslighting and trivializing other people.

You should read this: https://forum.mafia451.com/t/10-psychol ... -mafia/739

Disagree.
Shading is the act of throwing shade and suspicion on a slot and mocking some of the content.
Gaslighting is an abuse tactic.
Devaluing evidence and reads is standard play.
Trivialising people also shouldn't be done as it can drive people down and out. Trivialise the reads and motivations, not the people.

I think Toogeloo is scummy, I just don't know if it's scummy town or just scum. I'm looking closely there but you are right, it's hard to look when the slot is not creating content.

Marky Mark, i generally town lean, but his tone sometimes is... I don't know how to explain it other than, he is either town, or a townie scum. You know like there are scummy towns? Well there are also townie scums. My gut and my brain is fighting over on whether Mark is town or a townie scum.

Noraa, I tend to agree on that one, problem is that everything else from her is bad. Specially her sudden townread on Marky after accusing him of shading and scum reading him for it.

Flea, yah fae have this gimmicky careless approach right? Wonder if that is genuine or it is staged.

Both. Literally both. This ISO is dropping the persona aspect of me and yeah I'm still acting like an idiot

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

But you boosted your Toogs read based on a smartass comment I just want to be loved damnnit!

The thing is, DGBs post says a lot. that you're unable to put the work in and see says a lot.

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

HOW DAAAAARE YOU ASK ME, MR MITTENS, TO DO SOME WORK!

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

This pings me as somewhat LAMIST

That's because im open towning.

Debatable.

Like ultimately, when I push people I want them to respond and argue with me so that I can refine my read based on their responses

This is good to know because im the same. After all, people can fake an alignment but behavioral traits come out at a subconscious level, those cant be faked.

Good argument in favour of Meta really

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

@JacksonVirgo

Hey look the kitty brought us a dead spider

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

I dont like that word, i never intent to shade when im town. I scum hunt

Scum claim! xD

Spoiler: Conclusion!

Guillotina is scum without a doubt for me. the sheer number of contradictions, laziness and demanding behaviors lead me to lockscum this slot. There's been many posts since where he's incriminated himself by being lazy, demanding others do things while he does nothing, and requesting meta information while being anti-meta.

My intention with this ISO was to investigate and confirm a scumread, and honestly nothing can save this slot from my PoV at this time.

Spoiler: Bonus post! Fluff posting comparisons!

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

OK so, DGB has said here it has no problem reading me despite my fluffiness, and in 19 pages it's found nothing wrong with my posts.

You've obviously not read the post.

Now we come to where you've accused me of only posting fluff...

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

This isn't fluff. Fluff doesn't achieve anything, this says I'm doing something and have been distracted by my kids needing me. Yeah we played Stardew, I take mental health seriously.

Has No Elim posted at all?

This is both fluff and laziness, you're aware of the tools available to see if no elim had posted and you didn't use them, instead opting to ask someone else to do your work for you and looking like you're doing something.

I'm quoting this so I can come back to it once I've finished catching up, as holy fuck this is big.

Yeah, I really struggled to pick through this. It would've been more helpful to have a concise summary of the key points rather than an extended post, a fair chunk of which is very speculative. We have a reasonably active playerlist, but given the pace of the game, I can't see all of the plist taking the time to read this

Why not? I would even if it was not directed at me. Do you recommend other players to ignore it? Are you not going to read my equally long reply to that long post? What if i said that my long wall post is more readable than Faer as the fonts were colored to stand out (unless you got ocular problems of course).

To me it was important to reply to her antagonizing ill intended long post on me, i think it is important you read it and my reply to it as well.

[Guillotina]

After some self-examination maybe my scumreading Noraa is based on my red hot dislike of that kind of jumping moonlogik playstyle. Every time I read her posts I want to punch a wall, but everyone else just loves it, so it's me, not her.

Maybe it's best for me to not join games where she's on the player list for my own sanity. I will of course complete my commitment to this game.

In that same vein, I have an affinity for MathBlade and Guillotina posting styles and I have to reckon that there is a part of my psyche that doesn't want to scumread them.

This was my confessional.

Can you elaborate more on this? This felt like a double-pocket attempt, sorry if im wrong.

[Guillotina]

Why not? I would even if it was not directed at me. Do you recommend other players to ignore it? Are you not going to read my equally long reply to that long post? What if i said that my long wall post is more readable than Faer as the fonts were colored to stand out (unless you got ocular problems of course).

To me it was important to reply to her antagonizing ill intended long post on me, i think it is important you read it and my reply to it as well.

Clearly I am not recommending other players ignore it - it would be great if everyone read every post in the game. I am, however, a pragmatist, so I was just giving the advice that shorter, more concise dives would probably get more widely read. A lot of it also felt very speculative/borderline confbiased, which I noted you picked up in your response (tbqh I skimmed your response, but will read as time allows). An example of this confbias/stretching is you having them as null in your reads list, which tbf I found odd but made sense when you explained it.

Yah honestly several shorter chunks would have been great.

Thank you for your responses. You are out of my scum list. I wanna town lean you but i wanna be cautious too, you are in probation instead (null)

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

[Guillotina]

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

ur poe's always looked like this -__________________________________________-

Nah. Horsewoman and Marky used to be there.

[Guillotina]

@Horsewoman who are in your PoE as of now?

[Guillotina]

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

ur poe's always looked like this -__________________________________________-

Nah. Horsewoman and Marky used to be there.

The LlamaMama slot too.

Speaking of which i need to ISO vaxkiller

[Guillotina]

@Vaxkiller what are your reads on the players in my PoE

[Guillotina]

After some self-examination maybe my scumreading Noraa is based on my red hot dislike of that kind of jumping moonlogik playstyle. Every time I read her posts I want to punch a wall, but everyone else just loves it, so it's me, not her.

Maybe it's best for me to not join games where she's on the player list for my own sanity. I will of course complete my commitment to this game.

In that same vein, I have an affinity for MathBlade and Guillotina posting styles and I have to reckon that there is a part of my psyche that doesn't want to scumread them.

This was my confessional.

Can you elaborate more on this? This felt like a double-pocket attempt, sorry if im wrong.

I don't have anything else to say on the topic. I still haven't figured out what "pocket" means. Townreading? Agreeing? Sheeping? Ingratiating oneself? Matching words and actions?

There should be a word for the opposite of whatever it is. Depocket?

Buddying

Pocketing refers to when a mafia-aligned player buddies up to a town-aligned player in the hopes that this will make said player view the mafia-aligned player favorably. Usually the mafia-aligned player will defend the town player in order to "pocket" them.

Please note that town FPS players do also pocket mafia aligned players to make them feel comfortable, drop their guard and stab them in the back when they have built a case.

You don't look like the FPS type, so that post looked like you were trying to pocket me if not both of us.

I like to be townread but only for the right reasons, if your reasons feel vague, it's most likely a pocket.

[Guillotina]

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

Sorry but i dont judge based on meta from other games.

[Guillotina]

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

Sorry but i dont judge based on meta from other games.

Then what about the VCA from this one?

What does it tell you?

Give me something that says why you townread Horse instead of just “no”.

I don't townread Horsewoman i just have doubts about her being scum, in fact i'm looking at her closely today to confirm something.

[Guillotina]

Cool whatever your results please elaborate and actual discussion please.

What do you mean with “actual” discussion?

[Guillotina]

Cool whatever your results please elaborate and actual discussion please.

What do you mean with “actual” discussion?

Most of this game day it feels like is “I townread X” and “I scumread Y” and it’s all naked. There’s nothing to respond to so wagons don’t develop.

I may be wrong as I don’t “know” the solution but I “know” the solution in my heart and have attempted to describe it using this game and prior games. To have that effort ignored time and time again or set aside with a simple line or two (not just you) feels pretty demoralizing.

Yah i feel you, the problem is that other players read base on meta too, just like you, and those reads corrupt the reads of the current game. Like im aware each and every game is its own universe therefore meta is invalid.
If i were to read your case based on meta you provided from infinity in that game you two scummed together, then i would point out your post where you say that you are scum read as town and town read as scum a few posts bellow it, then it would corrupt my own read on you.

Im not savvy in VCA analysis so that is why i cant vote with you based on it, cause i dont understand it and i cant judge based on meta because everyone has meta that can be used against them. So, i believe that my game solving approach is right for me and i suggest you to be patient.

[Guillotina]

This is something that at least gives insight on you and can hopefully help others see why I townread you. We need more posts like this. I disagree with the no meta thing but I get it as I used to be a no meta player. People please go into detail like G is when you post. Please.

Bruh this is too much. Like im very wary when people put me on a pedestal like that cause

Positive Reality Support

exists and elimination by associations exists too.

Positive Reality Support.

Gaslighting is a manipulation technique used to deny a person’s reality in order to make them doubt their own mind, intuition, and perception of events. The term comes from a play/movie where a husband dismisses as merely imagined his wife’s notice of the gas lights being dimmed, while he indeed inadvertently dimmed the lights by using gas lights elsewhere to search for jewels of a woman he has murdered. Gaslighting is often contrasted to the

positive support of player

‘realities’, but that support can also be feigned and twisted to mafia advantage. In fact the two are often commingled so that it becomes confusing to separate harm from an appearance of support – a passive-aggressive chipping away of player confidences, tricking them into being unsure of anything.

Imagine if you actually flipped scum, this post could associate me with you and get me misyeeted.

Let's townread each other for the right reasons, i understand my sit in your town list is not guaranteed as neither is yours in mine.

[Guillotina]

Let's townread each other for the right reasons, i understand my sit in your town list is not guaranteed as neither is yours in mine.

What does this mean?

It means we may be town but we are not friends

[Guillotina]

Or rather, we may be town but we are not partners.

[Guillotina]

Ok, so what I gather from @Horsewoman is that she only towns up when she is getting actively attacked or she is on the verge of getting eliminated, notice that once i unvoted her she stopped posting. She is not making efforts to solve the game whatsoever when she is out of pressure.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Horsewoman

[Guillotina]

@Guillo - why HW over toog? I thought we both had a similar thought process there in terms of the fact that both look sus from their wagon position on the Momrangel wagon but HW has (at times) at least actively been trying to solve

Ok, so what I gather from @Horsewoman is that she only towns up when she is getting actively attacked or she is on the verge of getting eliminated, notice that once i unvoted her she stopped posting. She is not making efforts to solve the game whatsoever when she is out of pressure.

Because she didn't town up even when I gave her the chance to do so. Because after I stopped pushing her she felt comfortable with the metaphorical medal I gave her and didn't contribute to game solving, because Toogeloo or Noraa do not look like a viable option today, and because Horsewoman's flip would give us plenty of information to move forward.

[Guillotina]

@Toog - as I have asked before, what reads do you have on the playerlist other than HW?

I'll worry about that later.

I would like to know now actually, so that we can see your current view of the gamestate for transparency ahead of flips/NKs. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for your position on more than 1 player.

Speaking of which, where is pig at? I really think that a replacement on that slot would be to everyone's benefit, if they are not going to actively participate.

I agree on your Toogeloo and Pig points

Step it up!