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[ejjinami]

Grendel has been killed last night! He was a:

Spoiler:

town traffic analyst

hahahahhahahah
his bait worked?

I wasn’t expecting that

good job man!

welp, that changes my suspicions a bit

[ejjinami]

what’s a traffic analyst btw?

[ejjinami]

anyway, hi!
I’m fully caught up, just didn’t finish making my reads “presentable”. They’re still an unreadable bundle of my notes

VOTE: luca
100% scum.

that’s all I’m gonna say for now, I’ll explain it soon

[ejjinami]

By hood I mean capable of making communication outside the ingame thread*

I'd like to hear your theory because I'm townreading Luca pretty hard.

I know... and you were scum-reading my slot pretty darn hard

honestly, I was expecting you to just vote me and ignore my scum-read just because your previous read lmao...... but oh well
I might have demonized you a bit too much

I’m working on my notes rn

btw, do you want me to fill the OCEAN test as well?

[ejjinami]

Townie

[galron]
[frogster, lunar]
[NoPowerOverMe]
[OWE, bug*, gamma]
[Luca]

scummy

*=only there if luca flips town. 1000% town if luca flips scum

frogster

- Had a very genuine start. Asking for OCEAN results is NAI in itself but getting so agitated and trying to read people based on it for sooo long strongly hints to him genuinely wanting to try his theory out.

Experimenting with reads as town just simply makes sense. Pseudo-science or not, it doesn’t really matter. The motive behind it is pretty clear.
On the other hand, if he’s scum, I wouldn’t expect him to be THAT set on getting results. He would have to lie about his reads and would have to fake the results of his experiment (in a bad way) so no matter what he would have learned absolutely nothing from scum-reading anyone this way.

He lies about his reads = people think his way of reading is bad
Scum-reads townies using this method = people think his way of reading is bad
+he personally gets nothing out of it
...his posts (and emotions in them) just don’t seem to come from someone who knows that he’s doing a bad thing

The only thing that’s putting me off is him scum-reading pretty much only the low-posters (easy mis-lynches) + a lot of people I town-read... but tbh that’s still not enough to change my read there. 90(?)% inno

Gamma

- mindmelding a lot at the beginning of the game. Asking right questions at the right time. It’s easily fakeable but still likely good. There was literally nothing I’d like to call AI later on tho... In the PoE they go
I’d like to mention here that gamma would have known that galron claimed cop, not grendal... So I doubt they would have made that kill if they were scum

NoPowerOverMe

- Likely town because of the wagon on him D1.
Some people STRONGLY wanted him dead while some STRONGLY insisted that he’s town... Call me stupid, but in general I rarely see scum buddy each other THAT hard since the very beginning of D1
(people scum-read NPOM for pretty much anything and those who defended him just straight out said that “the wagon is disgusting”...)
Scum defending their teammate DESPITE a lot of townies pushing? - I don’t see it. That’s not how SvS defense should look like imo. If it were SvS I’d expect sth more reasonable that doesn’t place as many suspicions on the defenders after a flip.
High chances are that NPOM was just town and scum were spread between the attackers and defenders (they strongly pushed him because it was a decent mis-lynch and some white-knighted because they knew that this would give them town-creed)
NPOM can only be scum if he was bussed back then.
#619 agree about lucas. GOOD post

[ejjinami]

OurWorldEr

- Voted in their first post and changed their vote RIGHT after gamma criticized it. Didn’t try voting again.
It could have been a defensive reaction, caused by them knowing that they voted wrongly and not wanting to be scum-read.
#213 Calling Frogster scum is bad.
Not SvS with NPOM (they voted in #381 despite counterwagons existing, when the wagon on NPOM was getting big)

#”940 you’re trying to bully people into voting your SRs” (not necessarily AI)- good post
Result: PoE

bugspray

-there’s literally NOTHING I’d call AI in their posts. There were some ok posts but they’re not strong enough to get a read based on them and there aren’t enough to read them for constantly giving town-tells.
#402 not SvS with NPOM
10000% not scum with luca.
That’s pretty much all there is. So a big, fat nothing.
Result: PoE depending on flips

[ejjinami]

VOTE: Bugs

This is an easy vote for me because if my theory about Lunar is true then the game will end after a Bugs execution. If the game does not end then I will know my theory is incorrect. Later, I will post the interactions I found which lead me to believe Mom and Bugs were trying to signal to Lunar their alignment.

you know, maybe flip bugs first before scum-reading anyone based on interactions with them
besides them possibly wanting to defend(?) a traitor (if one exists), I don’t think it should be possible to identify any tells in the game thread
Most of the action should happen in the scum chat which I doubt you have access to

and fun fact, I’m 90% confident that lunar is town xD
Idk how to read anyone as a traitor cuz I have close to no experience with that role but in general, their posts, way of progressing the game + emotions close to the lynch felt really darn sincere

[ejjinami]

VOTE: Bugs

This is an easy vote for me because if my theory about Lunar is true then the game will end after a Bugs execution. If the game does not end then I will know my theory is incorrect. Later, I will post the interactions I found which lead me to believe Mom and Bugs were trying to signal to Lunar their alignment.

you know, maybe flip bugs first before scum-reading anyone based on interactions with them

besides them possibly wanting to defend(?) a traitor (if one exists),

I don’t think it should be possible to identify any tells in the game thread
Most of the action should happen in the scum chat which I doubt you have access to

and fun fact, I’m 90% confident that lunar is town xD
Idk how to read anyone as a traitor cuz I have close to no experience with that role but in general, their posts, way of progressing the game + emotions close to the lynch felt really darn sincere

This is exactly why I'm voting Bugs, and this is exactly what I found. By default traitor and scum do not know each other, and Momrangel's Informed made me think that she knew the identity of a traitor (provided one exists) but the traitor did not know the identity of their scum mates. I combed through D1 looking for moments where Momrangel could be signaling to her traitor and I think I found something. I found even more tells that looked like a scum!Bugs also trying to signal to Lunar. Of course there's a chance it's all in my imagination, that's why I'm curious to get other's input. I really don't have any other leads because I'm townreading most slots so if my new theory is incorrect then the scum are playing very well and/or I got pocketed and/or completely overlooked something.

With this idea it explains why Lunar seems so sincere at some moments, because they're actually unsure of their partners so they are not playing with TMI.

Imagine you queued up for this game and then found out you were the traitor, a role you were completely unfamiliar with, then look at Lunar's D1 again.

By hood I mean capable of making communication outside the ingame thread*

I'd like to hear your theory because I'm townreading Luca pretty hard.

I know... and you were scum-reading my slot pretty darn hard

honestly, I was expecting you to just vote me and ignore my scum-read just because your previous read lmao...... but oh well
I might have demonized you a bit too much

I’m working on my notes rn

btw, do you want me to fill the OCEAN test as well?

You replaced into NPOMs slot? I haven't sr NPOM since 3/4 into D1. I guess it was unclear since I lumped him in with the Town Block in my reads list.

If you don't mind then it would be nice, along with the other questions.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/~j5j/IPIP/

This is the best free version I've found so far. There's a "short" version and a long version, whichever you want to put the time into, they're both pretty long.

eh, maybe I should wait a bit to have you read my stuff without being biased but nope... I replaced Trendall
the slot you hated and the one who hated(?) you

I admit that my town-read on lunar doesn’t include the possibility of a traitor. Pretty much all of it is based on his solving looking really damn genuine + him choosing not to focus on getting town-read despite being perfectly able to do that... but as traitor half of that will have to be thrown away
(I’m working on making that one readable rn)

but regardless of all of that, he’s definitely not someone I’d want to lynch anytime soon. This theory can only be correct if bug is scum and that can only happen IF I’m wrong on luca
and boy oh boy, Luca was acting as the textbook wallposter scum since the beginning of D1... Normal on the outside, seemingly cares a lot, writes long “objectively townie” reads but is completely dead emotionally and apathetic when it really comes to lynch people near EoD.
If I’m wrong, sorry.. but JEEEZ, there were SO many scummy coincidences

[ejjinami]

You skipped providing any notes on both Galron and Luca.

I’ll skip my read on galron completely because I don’t think it’s necessary

and I’m still working on the rest. I have a list of notes I made during the night but they’re not anything people could read
They’re mainly made out of my brain shortcuts and 1-word/1-sentence comments

I’ll eventually post all of them but it’ll take some time

[ejjinami]

wait, Grendel was the one who posted the red check???????????
crap........
I mistook grendel for galron
I was dead certain that galron was the real cop and grendel was killed because he wanted to provide cop cover (my making mafia mistake their nicknames at EoD) xd
nvm, I’m just dumb

[ejjinami]

Grendel has been killed last night! He was a:

Spoiler:

town traffic analyst

hahahahhahahah
his bait worked?

I wasn’t expecting that

good job man!

welp, that changes my suspicions a bit

curious what you mean by his bait

I thought galron was the cop lmao
and then suddenly near EoD Grendel started saying that “he’ll surely die because he found scum”
and he repeated it a few times as if he wanted to remind the mafia of it
so I thought it was a really adorable way of baiting the night kill...

[ejjinami]

previously I thought conf town =[galron]
nearly lock town =[frogster, lunar]
townie =[NoPowerOverMe]
null PoE =[OWE, bug*, gamma]
scummy =[Luca]


*=only there if luca flips town. 1000% town if luca flips scum

What are your tiers representative of in this post, and what is the dividing factor for them? I feel like some of your reads don't match the tier each person is in if the tiers are just that of a general read list.

edited

[ejjinami]

Ejji said some wack shit in the hood

lol, then ask about it
EVERYTHING I said will make perfect sense later on

[ejjinami]

VOTE: ejjinami

This is a great silent vote and I was tempted to do the same.

then don’t just say that and do it
I was expecting you to want to lynch me since the very start, especially since I ended up heavily town-reading most of the people you’re scum-reading

[ejjinami]

about the hood, I had a spicy guess about the role list, which was based on me mistaking galron for grendal + one of bug’s posts in there
I won’t be able to explain it without claiming so please just don’t ask me about that.

The word you used to describe my tone earlier, "agitated", is extremely accurate, and you're making me agitated now.

I’m aware.
it’s 1am rn so I can’t guarantee I’ll go through and post all of my reads today but if not today, I’ll just post them tomorrow

besides, I’m aware that this will probably just annoy you more but try to take emotions out of FM. You seem to have a tendency to tunnel and honestly, I’d be REALLY surprised if your reads or general PoE are correct rn.
Submerging yourself in emotions while playing will make you omit things you could have otherwise read + probably be more confident in your opinions than you normally should
Trust me, I’ve experienced it myself

This is not advice from me as a player, this is advice from me as a person. Even if it’s not now, this tendency will end up hurting you sooner or later.

[ejjinami]

also whoever the fuck insinuated that there's a traitor who doesn't know who the buddies are that's ridiculous i just played bingle's one micro as a scum who didn't know who my partner is with secret alts and it was hellish in a few ways even though I was instantly able to identify my partner so unless you think georgebailey is completely incompetent at intelligent setup design that isn't even worth considering and also probably woldn't pass normal review because it's not mafia due to something something informed minority so occam's razor just says that's...

Spoiler: BULLSHIT

bug, the fact that you were able to guess the traitor in 1 game doesn’t mean that it applies to all games
the fact that townies can insta-win and find scum easily doesn’t mean that it has to happed every time
not all people can be read easily so that’s already a bad generalization

besides, reading people via interactions (buddying, defending scum) works the same with traitors as normal mafia
so even if there is one, it’s not like it matters. Chill

[ejjinami]

about the hood, I had a spicy guess about the role list, which was based on me mistaking galron for grendal + one of bug’s posts in there

yeah on this, do you still feel like bugspray is "your counterpart" or whatever you called him in there?

depends on the setup.
Possibly but it doesn’t look as beautifully perfected as it could have

[ejjinami]

the cat muscle dude says his role is a counterpart to mine and i have no fucking clue what that's even supposed to mean

don’t make a big deal out of it. I literally can’t explain it without claiming
IF it’s absolutely necessary, I’ll claim in the neighbor chat
if not, I’d prefer to avoid it

I said that it will make perfect sense and it will. I already crumbed hard enough
Just trust me on that one and if you’re dissatisfied with my answer later on,

lynch me

. I won’t be opposed.

[ejjinami]

Ejji if I'm hearing you right then in your world the scum team is most likely Luca + OutWorldER.

currently that would be my bet

eji you're making less sense than i ever have

pffft
is that an accomplishment? xD
thank you

[ejjinami]

Lunar

- not SvS with NPOM? (voted him in #376, when the thread was in literal chaos).

Most of Lunar’s content is just... straight to the point. They explained things pretty much only when they needed to and just focused on doing their own thing the majority of the time.
More often than not, I found that that’s townie behavior.
The main strategy as scum is to just... push someone to get a mis-lynch + explain their reads so that people can town-read them for it
Lunar showed multiple times that they CAN explain their reads well (#1030, #1033, #1183, #1301, #1335, etc). They had no trouble writing longer analysis, acting emotional nor strongly criticizing people who scum-read them.

Them not doing that and just poking people here and there for the majority of D1 was most definitely something they chose, not sth they were unable to do.

Being able to get town-read easily, yet not giving a crap is townie.
Being able to vote on easy mis-lynches, yet keeping their options open and checking what they could do by changing their vote, is townie.
Voting ONLY on valid wagons and ignoring any obvtown wagons from the very start, is townie.

Their early behavior just makes a lot of sense coming from a townie who
-only talks about the things they consider “important”
-literally couldn’t write anything “important” because they weren’t able to get confident reads that early (so they just kept poking people here and there)

I mostly think Town is way off-base and Mafia is sitting and laughing at us.

#436
D1 suspects before this post: NPOM, Frogger, amelie, trendal and bugspray.
IF Lunar is scum, there can be only 1 scum on that list.

Being unsatisfied with the thread-state, constantly poking around (changing his vote) and not just easily settling on a mis-lynch wagon is townie.

Lunar’s progression early on just makes a lot of sense from a town pov.

My aims are finding the Mafia. OWER is a fine vote. I think Luca is better. There's plenty of time.

I don't like that you're trying to blatantly manipulate my vote into being on one of the popular trains.

That was written after Frogger’s wall, when Lunar was getting heavily scum-read.
Not being afraid to strongly criticize someone who was pretty much lock-gowned by everyone is a good sign.

I'm being pushed to claim without any reason why people think I'm Mafia other than I wasn't posting for a few days while I was away. If that's pretty typical of this site just kill me now and I'll go elsewhere.

locktown
This is genuine. Mentioning leaving the forum is not sth people lie about.
This obviously hints to them genuinely not understanding the scum-reads on him, which generally comes from town more often than scum.
Being so “ok” with dying isn’t common for scum either.
like, just c’mon

And if you’re not gonna bother to engage with me about your thoughts then what do you expect me (or anyone else who SR’s you) to do here exactly?

You’re crying woe is me but not pushing in any direction. Have any of your reads changed recently? How do you feel about a Bugs elim?

Don't ask questions I've already answered. Read what I've written already. This isn't real engagement. You aren't doing anything. You're trying to look busy.

good reaction under pressure. It really feels like he was genuinely frustrated with the push on him + genuinely unwilling to “comply” in order to get town-read

This is not the attitude of someone whose only goal is to survive

The rest of their posts are just salty. They aren’t good and reading them makes even my head hurt but, considering his play style, they’re probably NAI.

Frogster as someone who seems incredibly prone to confirmation bias, I think maybe you should be extra careful with reaction tests. Either you are a Mafia God who basically solved the game Day 1, or you saw exactly what you wanted to see from that test. I still think you're more likely to be Town than Mafia,

but I feel like you're verging on being a liability.

another really good post

Considering that Lunar is a player that only writes what he needs to, without bothering with fluff or tiny details, calling Frogger a “liability” shouldn’t come from scum imo.
If frogger’s reads are incorrect, this post is obviously townie.
If frogger’s reads are correct and Lunar was precisely aware of that, I don’t think he would have even thought of using that word. This would be getting close to writing a personal insult for no reason (from his pov).
This should ONLY come from someone who doesn’t have TMI imo.

Lunar is getting close to lock town imo. His posts are largely imperfect but there were multiple hints towards him just not trying to fake them... and I really can’t imagine some of the posts I quoted above being fake

[ejjinami]

Bugs immedietly going after eiji for not making sense while also failing to actually point anything AI in that strikes me as scum desperately clutching onto to LHF.

bug’s did seem pretty unhappy with my posts in the neighbor chat. I wrote quite a bit there before the thread opened
You don’t see it because you can’t see it

the vote is bad but likely NAI

[ejjinami]

The fact that Bugs is neither outting what Ejji said in the hood nor voting someone else is incongruent, unless Ejji's wack-shit was a plan that involves Bugs pushing her in-thread.

It suggests to me that Bugs is neither collaborating with Ejji nor I but instead collaborating with some unknown third party I'm unaware of.

what I said in the hood involved me crumbing my role and crumbling my guess of bug’s role
he couldn’t explain it without giving scum info about our roles and I can’t do it either

The whole point of all of that was asking gamma to claim before me and bugs (in a mass claim) because I hoped to catch them on a slip. That was the extent of my “grand plan”.

just hush. You don;t have the full picture so, please, pretend as if it never happened.

and jsut to make it clear, my ideas about the setup were incorrect so this doesn’t apply anymore.

[ejjinami]

eji's shit was so incomprehensibly wack and i abrely understand it myself but i don't think town ever says it

...........
you know
I didn’t think it was possible to make me doubt my scum-read on luca that easily
dude, you’re literally being 2-dimensional

My “PLAN” was literally just asking gamma to claim first

oh noooooooo, that’s soooo scummy

[ejjinami]

eji's shit was so incomprehensibly wack and i abrely understand it myself but i don't think town ever says it

...........
you know
I didn’t think it was possible to make me doubt my scum-read on luca that easily
dude, you’re literally being 2-dimensional

My “PLAN” was literally just asking gamma to claim first

oh noooooooo, that’s soooo scummy

LOL, THINK

and maybe actually READ my posts because if you think about it, besides getting the benefit of knowing gamma’s role, I’d get NOTHING out of this as scum

I’d get nothing + I’d have to risk claiming a stupid role while obviously not having role-checked you before
sorry for getting annoyed but just.... lol?

[ejjinami]

eji's shit was so incomprehensibly wack and i abrely understand it myself but i don't think town ever says it

...........
you know
I didn’t think it was possible to make me doubt my scum-read on luca that easily
dude, you’re literally being 2-dimensional

My “PLAN” was literally just asking gamma to claim first

oh noooooooo, that’s soooo scummy

I have no idea what you're talking about

let’s talk in the hood then

[ejjinami]

eji's shit was so incomprehensibly wack and i abrely understand it myself but i don't think town ever says it

1442 is a pocket attempt on Lunar fypov then?

I guess I'm not understanding your world right now. You think that ejji is trying to bus Luca to win the endgame?

I’m pretty sure bug was talking about my posts in the hood

I’m not sure if they even read my wall lmao

[ejjinami]

there is PR-related information there
This entire thing is related to claims

that’s why, please, let’s just end this.
Vote me if you want to
don’t vote me if you don’t want to
ignore bug’s yelling for now cuz I will claim and explain everything if I judge that his outburst is SAI. Gamma can do the same
I’m still waiting for him to write sth

[ejjinami]

welp, at the very least now I’m 100% confident that tehre’s scum among [luca/bug], not 80 like I was before

thank you thank you

it was probably still worth it

[ejjinami]

Your avatar or the shit you talked about my PoE is not even remotely helping your case right now.

I’d appreciate it if you didn’t attack me directly.

If my avatar triggers you, please tell me that privately and I’ll change it.
If you disagree with my reads, please comment on those I elaborated on.

If I ever insulted you, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean it. I will try to be nicer in the future
Please do the same. Let’s not make this game toxic

[ejjinami]

Maybe I'm just jaded, but I don't really have good experiences with hoods. I've seen them used by mafia to pocket towns, and when they're pure I've seen them devolve into TvT fights that make the game unpleasant and difficult to solve because no one's really sure what's going on. I haven't read the game closely enough to have an opinion as to what the composition of the hood is rn, but I can tell immediately I don't like this situation where people are accusing one another of stuff I can't see and I'm asked to pick one side or another.

sorry

[ejjinami]

Without revealing any sensitive PR or mech information, @ejjnami, can you explain what bugspray is talking about in 1450?

I thought one of bug’s posts in the hood was a crumb... a very... big... crumb
seeing that, I thought of my role and the roles I already knew of and realized that they make a really beautiful and complete setup together.

the problem with that was that there was no place for gamma’s role there
so I said that I likely know bug’s role cuz I’m his “counterpart” and said basically the same stuff as above, asking gamma to claim first, to maximize the chances of them claiming something that doesn’t fit there at all.

Gamma agreed but was skeptical about my claims
Bug seemed to have a “WTF” reaction and asked what I thought their role was.
I answered gamma but ignored bug.

and then bug voted me today


btw, my test results:
Openness 26
Cautiousness 1
Extraversion 33
Agreeableness 1
Neuroticism 18

I really don’t think they’re accurate tho. If I were to judge myself, I’d give myself way more in openness and cautiousness :/
agreeableness as well lmao
This really doesn’t feel like me

Lmao my implication was that you have one of the weirdest avatars I've ever seen and you barreled in here a few hours ago saying my reads were shit and are already second-guessing yourself. You seem like a lunatic and I think you know this and are using your persona to troll others for sorting. I think Bugs is correctly assessing that the majority of the players will perceive you this way and can sense their time is almost up so they've got a hail Mary push started against you now.

pffffft, that’s not me at all xD
not at all
not even close

I tend to use colloquial language to interact with people and try to make my posts as short/straight to the point as possible but I’m closer to a serious wallposter than a troll.
You saw my read on lunar. Does that seem like a read that would come from someone who uses “trolling and jokes” to get reads?

Let me ask a friend from another forum to describe me
I’m almost curious

about my luca/bugs read:
I can’t claim that my reads are always accurate. No one can. I’m open to talk about my reads and change them if necessary, especially since I have only replaced in and rushed reading the entire thread just to be fully caught up when the game starts.
I was very confident in my read on luca but it was always “if it’s not him, there’s a high chance that his read on bugs was correct”... so that’s not a big change for me
That’s also why I placed bugs at the bottom of my read list, instead of the top.

[ejjinami]

I tend to use colloquial language to interact with people and try to make my posts as short/straight to the point as possible but I’m closer to a serious wallposter than a troll.

actually, that’s wrong
I’m a combination

I LOVE memes
but I usually think of games as of “commitment”. Not a place to just shit around, doing whatever I want to

[ejjinami]

Your avatar or the shit you talked about my PoE is not even remotely helping your case right now.

I’d appreciate it if you didn’t attack me directly.

If my avatar triggers you, please tell me that privately and I’ll change it.
If you disagree with my reads, please comment on those I elaborated on.

If I ever insulted you, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean it. I will try to be nicer in the future
Please do the same. Let’s not make this game toxic

By the way if I was wrong and you aren't creating this persona intentionally/semi-trolling I'm sorry I called you a lunatic and said your avatar is weird, in this context I'm definitely referring to your gameplay here and not trying to attack you directly.

if you’re talking about my reactions to bug’s scum-read on me, I get what you mean
that was basically just a “wtf” from me because even if bug’s reaction makes sense, no offense but it seems to be just dumb. From what I understand, bugs is scum-reading me for not understanding what I did
and since it’s “weird”, it’s “scummy”

So from my pov, this looked either like a total 0 IQ move, or just bugs scum-reading me for no reason whatsoever.

If my assumptions are correct, this should be resolved as soon as bugs gets online and reads my explanation on the neighbor chat.

If I wrote anything wrong here, feel free to correct me @bugs

[ejjinami]

Did you take this one? http://www.personal.psu.edu/~j5j/IPIP/

yeah, I used the link you posted
chose the shorter version

I can try the longer version as well but I have a feeling that the questions might be asking about parts that are too specific :/
Like, I slack a lot when doing homework but then when I really get into something, I can work on it literally for days....
so am I a slacker? well, yeah
does that correctly measure my personality traits? not necessarily

there were quite a few questions like that there...

even if I take the other test, it’ll have to be tomorrow tho
it’s already 4am xd
I’ll be dead tired tomorrow

[ejjinami]

From what I understand, bugs is scum-reading me for not understanding what I did
and since it’s “weird”, it’s “scummy”

If this is true it is concerning for bugs

eji's shit was so incomprehensibly wack and i abrely understand it myself but i don't think town ever says it

if that can be understood in any other way, I’m all ears.
Unless asking you to claim first IS actually scummy

@bugs

[ejjinami]

unofficial Vote count

Luca Blight(1)

~ ejjinami

ejjinami(1)

~ bugspray

bugspray(4)

~ Frogsterking, Lunar Martian, OutWorldER, Luca Blight


Not Voting (6): Gamma Emerald(3), Galron, joqiza

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

I still don’t want to lynch bugs today
I did have my wtf moment but honestly, not cooperating =/= being scum
being really weird =/= scum as well
it just makes him harder to read

let me finish writing my reads, talk to luca and we’ll go from there. There’s a lot of time
bug is at L-1. I would be glad if someone unvoted

[ejjinami]

lmao, now that I think of it, nearly my entire PoE is voting bug
how nice


either hard bussing or my read on luca was jsut correct

[ejjinami]

if anyone votes while pretending not to read the game thread, you’re risking death. That’s all I have to say.

This is L-1. Unless you are confident enough in getting a scum-flip to die, do not vote.

[ejjinami]

either hard bussing or my read on luca was jsut correct

and no, I didn’t forget to elaborate on this read
this is just the longest one and I deleted 90% of my notes on them because of a certain someone faking a red check on bugs D2.... and the interactions with scum!bugs 100% clearing luca

I’ll just post it tomorrow

[ejjinami]

i am increasingly confused

then talk
comment on my posts

elaborate on your vote on me in a way that anyone could understand. If you can’t do it here, do it in the hood (if that happens, another hood member will confirm that this happened)

[ejjinami]

actually, did anyone other than luca play with bugs before?

if so, does he always refuse to cooperate? it’s hard to get that from an ISO dive...

[ejjinami]

ngl, one of my reasons for scum-reading luca before was that he only showed “genuine” emotions when he was talking about bugg’s uncooperativeness (he seemed to show himself as a person only in posts that are both kinda useless and completely NAI)
but I kinda get that now lmao...

[ejjinami]

UNVOTE: For now. Vote is there in spirit probably, but there's something odd going on and its too early to end the day anyway.

yup
thancc!

[ejjinami]

To be honest you guys I'm not really sure about the last one.

?
what last one? you mean my post about bugs/luca?

P.edit:
OK, it’s WAY too late.... vote me if I continue posting or sth
gn

p.p.Edit:
Happy bday!!! xD

[ejjinami]

To be honest you guys I'm not really sure about the last one.

?
what last one? you mean my post about bugs/luca?

I'm not sure who the third is outside of Mom/Bugs/x now that I'm fairly convinced your slot and Lunar are town.

And when I say I'm not sure I mean I REALLY, am not sure. The way Bugs is playing makes me think it might not be someone with a reasonable chance to win. I mean who could be bussing Bugs right now? OutWorldER?

I feel like a player with the ability to glide along like this and drop town tell bombs when needed would not be cooperating with Bugs on this line of play. I don't see how this is furthering the win condition for the scum team. I don't understand what they're doing.

that’s another reason why I woulnd’t just lock-scum him

bugs himself is either just completely frozen (which can be easily determined by an ISO search) or just behaves like that normally.
If it’s the 1st case, lol, he’ll just die.
in the 2nd, he’d be a really darn easy mis-lynch.
and he himself doesn’t seem too worried about his teammate’s well-being after he and mom get lynched in a row

welp w/e
the point is, there is time. There’s no need to be “perfect” and find scum at once
Today’s wagons being between luca and bugs are bound to get spicy interactions so regardless if we get it right or not, we’re in quite a good spot

Experienced players are easier to read via interactions as well so as long as there’s 1 scum among today’s top wagons, we’re good. I’ll try to make my read on luca as convincing as possible lmao :P

Ejji are you actually scum? Is this some theater crap?

Telling bug to bus me for literally no reason while I’m pretty much the only person who’s trying to defend him from an instant hammer would be.... either genius or really, REALLY stupid

if I were scum with bugs, I’m pretty darn sure I’d just buss him immediately. With an attitude like that, if luca is town, he’s pretty much a lost cause anyway. If not today, it’s tomorrow
but w/e
I’m perfectly fine with being suspected after a scum!flip (if there is one). That’s a part of the game as well
Let’s just see how this goes

[ejjinami]

I don’t think it’s been made apparent why you think Luca/bugs aren’t scum together ejji?

because luca death-tunneled bugs since D1. That should be pretty telling imo

[ejjinami]

Eh that seems simplistic

I don’t need anything else
Their interactions are clear imo

[ejjinami]

I’m back. I was busy wasting my time

Spoiler:

xD

@Ejji

Can you see anything in the hood that might look like Galreon and Bugs are scum and communicating with each other?

Just based on the interactions in the chat, I’m decently confident that Galeron should be town :/
more so than any of bugs/luca
but eh.
I don’t think so? Galeron talked to my slot several times more than to bugs

and there are some posts that imply that Amelia might have targeted Galeron before death. (and she died as a bodyguard)
if everyone thought gal was a PR, there’s a decent chance that they could have gotten attacked :/

is traitor guaranteed to be in the setup or sth? trying to find scum based on interactions with a role that might not even exist doesn’t seem like the most effective strategy

——

anyway, I started looking through bug’s ISO in other games in my free time but haven’t gotten much out of it yet. @luca, which games were you talking about (where you read them correctly)?

——

Reji should prob just out their report

I still have a lab report to finish today but I know. I’ll start working on it asap. Same with verifying bug’s meta.... (this might be actually more accurate than whatever read I could have)

[ejjinami]

I might have joined at a very wrong time. VLA for 1 days
my yesterday’s report wasn’t that easy to write as I thought it would
aaand I have a test tomorrow I forgot about
there’s no need to give me an official VLA status because it’ll be over way too quickly but I’ll jsut have to take care of that first. I’ll be completely free after that
jsut cut me a bit more slack

@luca, which games were you talking about (where you read them correctly)?

I really don't feel like talking any more about my meta read on Bugs. I feel as though there is enough reason to believe they are scum from their play in this game alone. If you're wondering about the validity of my claim that I have had success reading them as both alignments, the fact Bugs themselves hasn't questioned or refuted this should be evidence enough that I'm not making it up.

You’re acting as if you don’t want me to look it up.
I’m well aware that you’re good with words, don’t beat around the bush.
I asked for links to the games you were talking about, not a read extension. As I said before, I already started looking though bug’s meta but didn’t see a difference as big as you were talking about. That’s EXACTLY why I asked.

From what I’ve seen till now, their town and scum meta are rather close. They were more creative and way more open in games as both alignments. The only reliable(???) difference I noticed till now is that they tend to react with “jeez”, “wtf” type of stuff to scum-reads and anything that starts them as scum a bit more.
But there is a chance that I’m just looking through the wrong games

Saying that “he’s so scummy so you don’t need links” honestly seems like bullshit. If you don’t give me links I’ll just look for them myself.
that’s all I have to say


I haven’t read the entire thread btw. Just found this post because I was interested in it
I’ll catch up tomorrow,
sorry for that again

[ejjinami]

VOTE: Bugspray

Your turn, Lunar. Put your "FoS" back at l-1.

....I’ll just say one thing. I refuse to believe that lunar is scum
I have more trust in analyzing posts I consider “very AI” than unobvious interactions with scum+an unflipped player

If lunar and bug were both scum mom would have been WAY more concerned about the end result. Her voting outside of bug/lunar without fighting for or against any of them could just mean that she didn’t give a crap.

don’t look at mom’s actions, look at her attitude

@All If Mom's motivation here is to create a counter wagon to Bugs, why the %&#* is she making a new one and not pushing the already-existing Lunar wagon which already has town on it?

because bugs is town and mom doesn’t care?
because bugs is scum and mom didn’t want to look as if she was just sheeping?

there are multiple explanations but I really, REALLY doubt lunar is scum here lol.

Ignore my read on him, this team doesn’t make sense interaction-vise either

did mom seem pressured in any way? I don’t think so
did lunar or bugs try to save each other? not really???

lunar was voting bugs. Bugs didn’t give a crap and voted no one the entire time (which already shows that he didn’t feel pressured and imo, IF the majority of the scum-team was under pressure to the point of lunar deciding to bus him, he would have dome SOMETHING)
and then we have mom who completely ignored the fact that lunar is bussing bugs, bugs is being lazy and doing nothing, and she voted on a vanity wagon to save them both???
This doesn’t look like interactions from a dying scum-team. This looks like random interactions of players who don’t give a crap about each other

Intent to hammer.

do not
please wait just a few hours

bugs can’t be scum with luca. If luca is scum, bugs is town
just let me sort that

[ejjinami]

I like how me being right plays into me being Mafia.

you’re scum-reading BOTH luca and bug. You literally can’t be right lol

[ejjinami]

VOTE: Bugspray
I almost completely agree with the case and my one concern doesn’t really weaken it at all

I’m sorry for being rude but do you have any original reads?

[ejjinami]

actually, now that I think of it, there are more arguments for lunar, bugs, mom not being the team

Why would lunar try to lynch bugs for 3 days straight with so many counter-wagons present?
why would mom bother defending them both when both of them were busy getting each other killed?
if luca thought bugs is a lost cause, why did mom not try to fake interactions with them at least a bit?
imo she seemed rather happy most of the time

no action = no interest
no interest = no pressure
no pressure = the majority of the scum-team wasn’t getting lynched?

It doesn’t get easier than that imo

[me, mom, bugs] makes way more sense than [mom, bugs, luca] lmao

VOTE: Bugspray
I almost completely agree with the case and my one concern doesn’t really weaken it at all

I’m sorry for being rude but do you have any original reads?

That vote screams to me "Ahhhh my partner is going down and someone was just encouraged to vote, I need to make sure I get on that wagon ASAP!"

I don’t know what it means if bugs is scum
I know that I absolutely hate that attitude in case of him being town

The result will be clear after 1 lynch anyway.

[ejjinami]

quitting the TvT would be appreciated.
Focusing on bugs/luca instead would be great as well

...or just waiting for me to write my case
a few hours really won’t kill you

[ejjinami]

you can try to figure out the other scum afterwards

[ejjinami]

VOTE: Bugspray
I almost completely agree with the case and my one concern doesn’t really weaken it at all

I’m sorry for being rude but do you have any original reads?

Technically that’s my read to begin with. But besides that I’ve had plenty of original reads I’d say.
Also I was hesitant on voting but decided I wanted to put Lunar to the test. He didn’t do the first thing I expected him to do as scum but that doesn’t mean he’s town to me, I don’t like how he’s pushing me here.

I’m pushing you as well. Actually, I pushed you first
unless you wanna say that I’m scum with him, that means something.

and you’re doing the exact same thing I wrote was bad just a second ago. Lunar literally can’t be scum with bugs
decide one one

I don’t know what it means if bugs is scum
I know that I absolutely hate that attitude in case of him being town

The result will be clear after 1 lynch anyway.

This also doesn’t look great

Also don’t like ejji calling me vs. Lunar TvT like that.

I was talking about frogster vs lunar TvT.
...I’ve been doubting you since I replaced in? and I commented directly under frog&lunar’s quarrel
I have no idea how you could have misunderstood that one

I don’t know what it means if bugs is scum
I know that I absolutely hate that attitude in case of him being town

The result will be clear after 1 lynch anyway.

This also doesn’t look great

Also don’t like ejji calling me vs. Lunar TvT like that.

I must admit I agree with this. Interesting.

lol

[ejjinami]

I should probably be cramming rn
bb after the test

[ejjinami]

Frogster, bugs isn’t necessarily scum.

Even if I’m wrong and he is, it really doesn’t hurt you to wait those few hours, let me screw my slot over even more, get ignored and bugs lol-hammered.
w/e, just let me post my read, please.

quitting the TvT would be appreciated.
Focusing on bugs/luca instead would be great as well

...or just waiting for me to write my case
a few hours really won’t kill you

I have one million percent certainty the final pair is Bugs/Lunar. Lunar can't hammer because of autoloss.

oh hey, then I have one million percent certainty that you’re wrong :)

can you answer what I wrote in my case above?

sorry if I’m being rude btw, this just isn’t something I can imagine
it just isn’t
those aren’t interactions of a fully functioning scum team
we really just won’t agree here

I was talking about frogster vs lunar TvT.

Yeah so? Lunar and your predecessor clashed in a similar way, would be convenient for you if people saw that as TvT no? But I feel like Lunar agreeing with me and then retracting like he did is the actually scum-indicative thing her vs. you seeming to be pushing things that I think are self-serving.

if you think I and lunar are a scum-team why aren’t you voting me lmao

and I said NOTHING about me and lunar being TvT. Don’t twist my words, please

[ejjinami]

if you think I and lunar are a scum-team why aren’t you voting me lmao

and I said NOTHING about me and lunar being TvT. Don’t twist my words, please

I don’t think it’s you and lunar, I definitively think it is bugs and someone else, that someone else being lunar rn
And you didn’t say it now but it’s not impossible for you to try to bring it up later. If I were less charitable I’d suppose you were annoyed I called you on it pre-emptively.

ok, then comment on my last case as well.
Lunar is close to lock town on their own, they tunneled bugs for the majority of the game while mom jumped casually between unrelated wagons

mom wasn’t concerned wiht “2/3 of her scum team” getting lynched,
bugs didn’t seem pressured enough to fake ANY sort of interactions nor vote ANYWHERE, despite “2/3 of the scum team getting lynched”
and that all happened while lunar decided to screw all of them and buss.

how is that a functioning scum team????

Lunar, if the reason for your brief pro town change in playstyle at the beginning of D2 --where you actually appeared to be trying to scum hunt and explain your reads and interact with other players-- was because you were getting used to Normals, why are you regressing back into your D1 persona now? Are you getting un-used to them?

SIGH

I’m 99,999% certain that’s NAI.
Not explaining reads in detail =/= being scum.
Caring enough to explain everything = possibly not wanting to get scum-read = scummy.

unless a player is literally unable to fake content (which obviously isn’t the case for lunar) it works in the exact opposite way

[ejjinami]

ffs are you serious now?
ok, give me a meta sample for lunar as well, please.

[ejjinami]

nvm, it’s not necessary anymore
I found it.

[ejjinami]

I’ve read the iso in lunar’s scum game. If you don’t trust me, I’ll give links below so you can double-check it. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, JUST DO IT.
guess what
I found meta differences. I found EXACTLY those meta differences I expected them to have, when explaining my town-read on them right after I replaced in

Players who tend to get straight to the point and only say what’s needed often tend to explain themselves more as scum. They tend to be less spontaneous, nicer and generally more “objectively townie”.

and guess what, this is clearly seen in their scum game.
They are nice, explain their thoughts carefully and care about maintaining a good progression.
In this game their posts are raw, they don’t care to make their posts easily town-readable and just go with their gut (until they get decent reads).

There is no need for meta here, this is just a general tendency related to personality. Being “objectively townie” and writing a lot is NOT townie for everyone. Please verify this by reading lunar’s scum iso I linked below.

In their scum game despite them showing “emotions” all of them are “controlled”, coupled with quite a bit of explaining + “townie” reasoning
in their current game there’s nothing like that. If emotions are visible in their posts, they’re raw, often coupled with insulting other players slightly. 

Again, proof that as scum they’re too stressed to interact with other players as they normally do and that as scum they are too stressed to be mean to players they’re supposed to suck up to.

They are NOT sucking up to anyone here, they did NOT care about their life when threatened, they were incredibly reactive and responsive and didnt care about insulting lock-town players when they disliked them.... My read aside, meta literally clears them.


here is a link to lunar’s ISO in their scum game https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12417822
and here is their current ISO https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12510871

here are the reasons I town-read lunar for before

Spoiler:

Lunar

- not SvS with NPOM? (voted him in #376, when the thread was in literal chaos).

Most of Lunar’s content is just... straight to the point. They explained things pretty much only when they needed to and just focused on doing their own thing the majority of the time.
More often than not, I found that that’s townie behavior.
The main strategy as scum is to just... push someone to get a mis-lynch + explain their reads so that people can town-read them for it
Lunar showed multiple times that they CAN explain their reads well (#1030, #1033, #1183, #1301, #1335, etc). They had no trouble writing longer analysis, acting emotional nor strongly criticizing people who scum-read them.

Them not doing that and just poking people here and there for the majority of D1 was most definitely something they chose, not sth they were unable to do.

Being able to get town-read easily, yet not giving a crap is townie.
Being able to vote on easy mis-lynches, yet keeping their options open and checking what they could do by changing their vote, is townie.
Voting ONLY on valid wagons and ignoring any obvtown wagons from the very start, is townie.

Their early behavior just makes a lot of sense coming from a townie who
-only talks about the things they consider “important”
-literally couldn’t write anything “important” because they weren’t able to get confident reads that early (so they just kept poking people here and there)

I mostly think Town is way off-base and Mafia is sitting and laughing at us.

#436
D1 suspects before this post: NPOM, Frogger, amelie, trendal and bugspray.
IF Lunar is scum, there can be only 1 scum on that list.

Being unsatisfied with the thread-state, constantly poking around (changing his vote) and not just easily settling on a mis-lynch wagon is townie.

Lunar’s progression early on just makes a lot of sense from a town pov.

My aims are finding the Mafia. OWER is a fine vote. I think Luca is better. There's plenty of time.

I don't like that you're trying to blatantly manipulate my vote into being on one of the popular trains.

That was written after Frogger’s wall, when Lunar was getting heavily scum-read.
Not being afraid to strongly criticize someone who was pretty much lock-gowned by everyone is a good sign.

I'm being pushed to claim without any reason why people think I'm Mafia other than I wasn't posting for a few days while I was away. If that's pretty typical of this site just kill me now and I'll go elsewhere.

locktown
This is genuine. Mentioning leaving the forum is not sth people lie about.
This obviously hints to them genuinely not understanding the scum-reads on him, which generally comes from town more often than scum.
Being so “ok” with dying isn’t common for scum either.
like, just c’mon

And if you’re not gonna bother to engage with me about your thoughts then what do you expect me (or anyone else who SR’s you) to do here exactly?

You’re crying woe is me but not pushing in any direction. Have any of your reads changed recently? How do you feel about a Bugs elim?

Don't ask questions I've already answered. Read what I've written already. This isn't real engagement. You aren't doing anything. You're trying to look busy.

good reaction under pressure. It really feels like he was genuinely frustrated with the push on him + genuinely unwilling to “comply” in order to get town-read

This is not the attitude of someone whose only goal is to survive

The rest of their posts are just salty. They aren’t good and reading them makes even my head hurt but, considering his play style, they’re probably NAI.

Frogster as someone who seems incredibly prone to confirmation bias, I think maybe you should be extra careful with reaction tests. Either you are a Mafia God who basically solved the game Day 1, or you saw exactly what you wanted to see from that test. I still think you're more likely to be Town than Mafia,

but I feel like you're verging on being a liability.

another really good post

Considering that Lunar is a player that only writes what he needs to, without bothering with fluff or tiny details, calling Frogger a “liability” shouldn’t come from scum imo.
If frogger’s reads are incorrect, this post is obviously townie.
If frogger’s reads are correct and Lunar was precisely aware of that, I don’t think he would have even thought of using that word. This would be getting close to writing a personal insult for no reason (from his pov).
This should ONLY come from someone who doesn’t have TMI imo.

Lunar is getting close to lock town imo. His posts are largely imperfect but there were multiple hints towards him just not trying to fake them... and I really can’t imagine some of the posts I quoted above being fake


PLEASE read them and let’s just end this charade.
Lunar is town, Frogger is town, NPOM’s replacement is town, galron is town
there’s 1 scum among [bugs, luca] and 1 among [gamma, over].
From your pov, I should be in the last bracket as well.

That’s all there is to this.

[ejjinami]

I’m sorry for being rude btw. One of my highest town-reads getting tunneled and scum-read by everyone I interact with is........

honestly a bit annoying.

If I acted a bit over the top, I apologize for it. I’m aware that I just ignored some of your reads, which might have been rude. Most of the arguments I’ve seen were just simply... not strong enough, which is my subjective opinion.
If any of this felt like I was looking down on your reads, I didn’t mean it.

Please just verify what I was talking about
It CAN be verified so just please, please, please do.

If you disagree with this opinion as well, let’s talk. As long as it’s a friendly conversation and we both openly listen to each other’s arguments, I’m all for it

[ejjinami]

[gamma, over]

*OWE
puppy
...I forgot their name

you get the point

[ejjinami]

Lunar was never close to being eliminated in that game, so they never needed to deviate from being 'nice'. In this game they were ran up to E-1 for what they seemed to believe was bad reasons, so that explains why they would be more hostile in their response.

no, it doesn’t.
Faking emotions is not that easy. Them being able to do that already is townie

besides, I’m not talking about one instance, they did it over and over and over.
They could have responded to scum-reads with just “explanations” here but they often chose to retaliate, even if the person they were talking to was a general lock townie
They did NOT do that in their scum game.
You really can’t say that that’s NAI
Just compare their meta, please.

[ejjinami]

and that was not the only point I made. If you think lunar is scum, please comment on my old read on them.
I posted it in a spoiler above

unless you somehow undermine that, I really don’t see a possibility of them flipping scum
especially since my thoughts are pretty much confirmed by meta.

[ejjinami]

They don't have to fake emotions, they would probably be angry as either alignment being ran up to E-1 for 'bad reasons'.

I was in their scum game, so please don't ask me to compare meta. They were never under pressure that game.

that’s just an excuse not to read them.
I disagree
the intensity of their anger does not make sense if coming from scum
A townie would know that all reads on them are bullshit, scum- not.

a player who tends to be nicer as scum, who cares about explaining their progression more often does so because of the pressure they feel to get town-read

The lack of that exact pressure made them behave as chaotically as they did in this game.
The lack of that pressure made them switch their vote multiple times without caring how the townies think about them

compare how they show their emotions here and in their scum game. They were very toned down and showed only “controlled” emotions in their posts
Even besides their emotions close to L-1, the emotions in their posts here were much more raw. there’s no sense of them working on their tone the entire time, they just went with what they thought
and THAT’s townie

[ejjinami]

and that was not the only point I made. If you think lunar is scum, please comment on my old read on them.
I posted it in a spoiler above

I'm really not in the mood to read walls of text right now, but at a glance it seems to all be based around the same thing - being hard, aggressive etc. I've already explained why this isn't a reliable reason to TR someone. If there's something unrelated to this in your reasoning then please highlight it for me.

does being chaotic + spontaneous = agressive?

if not, this is one of the main reasons I town-read them for.

Another reason is good votes (trying to check stuff out at the beginning of the game instead of just voting, explaining their reads and passively waiting for stuff to happen. Townies need to switch their vote to figure out the wagon progression+make scum feel pressure. Scum don’t really do that as often from my experience because it’s more stressful and they’d have to control their progression more)

saying that the “scum are sitting back and laughing at the townies” while actively trying to change the main wagons is a townie thing as well.
(especially since at this point there could have been only 1 scum among them)

and I don’t think scum!lunar would have called town!frogger a “liability”, when from his pov town!frogger should have correctly scum-read the entire or majority of the scum-team.

Lunar doesn’t act as caught scum, didn’t seem to be discouraged by the scum-reads on you/bug/mom
they are STILL acting good and being direct despite being close to lock town for a long time D1
they’re just keeping up a natural front for a LONG time
If there were moments when they would have tried sucking up to anyone here, I surely don’t remember them.
Not showing their scum tells for a long time and acting raw/natural most of the game already makes them townie imo

Even if my singular reasons for town-reading them weren’t that AI, keeping it up for so long really shouldn’t be that easy
Especially since their last scum game was so different

they’re just town

[ejjinami]

And the emotional aspect between the two games isn't comparable because they were two entirely different contexts.

you could undermine any meta by saying “but the context was different”

yet meta is still being used as a tool.

The best meta reads are those based on attitude, not exact posts.
Look at their general attitude and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

and again, their emotions felt raw even before they got scum-read and after it all ended
I liked that one moment in particular but that doesn’t mean that was the only one I was talking about
it just works

if you don’t want to look through stuff now, don’t worry. There’s still time
and it’s not like lunar is anywhere close to getting lynched today
so don’t respond to this if you don’t want to. Just remember to check it later, please.

[ejjinami]

let me repeat this, it’s not like I’ll get angry if you just ignore my posts rn and chill or if you respond to others who might post here later (without responding to me first)

this really doesn’t matter unless you start talking about scum-reading lunar.
Only then I’ll ask you to talk to me again.

so if you’re not feeling like it, take your time. Maybe rest a bit if you need it
the day phases are long as heck so we’re not in a hurry

[ejjinami]

the fact that they weren’t willing to engage proves my point
it’s not that “town would want to explain themselves” it’s that “scum would be too stressed not to engage”

Their attitude towards the game as scum is: “I have to be townie or else I’ll get lynched”
their attitude towards the game as town is: “I’ll just be myself”

you can confirm this in their ISO.

let me ask another question. Besides you scum-reading them for not cooperating, being salty, etc (which you already said both alignments tend to do), did you see lunar showing any signs of him sucking up to players as they did in their last game?
You can verify the scum tells I was talking about and I don’t think they showed it in this game in general.

If so maybe, if they improved enough not to show the same scum-tells again (despite there being little time in between), the things you’re scum-reading them for rn aren’t actually scummy?

[ejjinami]

The example I gave was just countering your point about how Lunar's reaction to pressure was supposedly Townie.

I just simply disagree
a player who tends to be nicer and care more as scum, suddenly being an ass is more likely to be AI than not.
Regardless of the situation, their personality is constant

IF their meta clearly shows that being rude and chaotic is not something they do and if they behave differently the entiiiiiire game, for a loooong time, this should be AI imo.

the unexplained progression, chaotic read changes, being uncooperative, etc, are all signs of them not bothering to suck up to other people.

When did Lunar suck up to players in their previous scum game? I don't remember that.

they were just nice. They explained all their reads and interacted with players in the typical way people would expect from him.

I’m exaggerating by calling it “sucking up” but from a scum’s perspective, they were being nice and reasonable to make other players like them... (=sucking up / trying to be likable)

Not following this motive at all = townie.

Again, you don’t have to do this now but compare their metas, please. Try to decide for yourself what his attitude towards the game was as scum and I think you’ll easily notice that his general attitude here was way different.

I’m talking about the general attitude, not specific posts.

[ejjinami]

lunar has not been as nice as they were in the previous game and you are scum-reading them for it.
They are way more chaotic here and are not trying to control themselves nor try to appear good/reasonable.

What I call a townie difference in attitude, you call scum-motivated.
and I’m not talking only about that one moment.
that’s what this boils down to

w/e
I’ll just wait for someone to look through the links I posted and then we’ll talk

[ejjinami]

for those who don’t want to read, here’s a TLDR of this this entire conversation

Spoiler:

luca: no
ejj: yes
luca: no
ejj: yes
luca: no
ejj: yes
luca: no
ejj: yes
luca: no
ejj: yes
luca: no
ejj: yes
luca: no
ejj: yes
luca: no

[ejjinami]

Sigh
You are wrong about both things you said.
there is a difference in "niceness" or the level of their care to make themself look townie, which can be easily noticed by analyzing how the push their reads.

And I never said that JUST being angry makes anyone scum or town

W/e
This conversation is tiring us both, let's just stop

[ejjinami]

The fact that I'm discussing stuff peacefully doesn't mean that I townread you.

I'm still in uni, I'll finish looking through bug's and your ISOs after I get back home. I have some notes on a computer there

So the answer is no.
If you want to hammer him, do it yourself. My deal hasn't changed.

[ejjinami]

Hmm I Think I was mixing up Galron and Grendel. Galron is not obvtown. I'll re-read Galron later. I think it's highly unlikely that the entire hood was Town PRs with back-up townies to fill in. Much more Likely, A Town PR hood got infiltrated or wasn't all Town to begin with.

just a quick pop-in to say that this is a town-slip

Scum!lunar would have known that they were killing the “cop” so they wouldn’t have lock-towned galron for so long.
This mistake wouldn’t have occurred if lunar was scum.

I rest my case
please, no more

[ejjinami]

I’m so tired

[ejjinami]

......
ngl, yesterday’s conversation completely sucked out all my wim out of me

Scum-reading lunar at this point is just not smart imo. I’m sorry
I’m starting to see how I got 1/100 in agreeableness lmao
even tho, the only thing this can probably be applied to are my town-reads :/

I have nothing to say about that anymore. I feel that if I were to argue more I’d just end up going completely inactive

over appearing and just agreeing that “yes yes, it must be bugs and lunar” feels really goddamn lazy

I feel like I must reread luca anyway because I got a very different vibe while talking to him than while catching up before I replaced in
but my wim is pretty much dead.

Someone voting me or giving me some sort of timer to finish the read would be appreciated....
actually, I don’t know what I need. I’ll jsut try to get this done

[ejjinami]

@ejj: I now agree that Lunar is Town, but why do you think Galron is?

because I have an invisible, magical unicorn friend who whispered sweet nothings into my ears and shared their secrets with me

I cannot answer that question. He’s not getting lynched so that’s good at least

[ejjinami]

VOTE: Luca

Doing this so Luca can make an omgus claim.

This is pure desperation.

galron suspected you since yesterday. You just don’t have access to all of their posts

He said that you were one of his bigger suspects at night in response to me screaming about my reads in the hood

[ejjinami]

I’ll fail the challenge xD
I noticed a new thing about myself. Apparently I have a big tendency to avoid problems...
aaaaaaaaaand I might have a tendency to defend myself with “no I’m right, you’re dumb.” type of arguments when angry
which is kinda toxic. I don’t know how to deal with it yet but I’ll try to fix it somehow.

The conversation about lunar kinda broke me
I just kept running away for 2 days because I didn’t want to read anything more about that, which would cause me to have to argue more and get more frustrated

that’s not a perfect attitude to play FM.

but anyway, I’m back. I can’t say that I’m over it because I’m not. I will likely break down and try to escape again if I have to argue about it more so lemme just ignore it fn.

I could have worked on casing bugs/luca while I was basically avoiding the thread but my brain didn’t want to accept that I’d have to read the new posts then, sooooooo here we are

(I still didn’t btw xD)
(it’s kinda silly how this works but w/e)

lemme just focus on what I want to do. (yes, writing the cases that I’m already a week late with is included there. if you want to hammer before that, I won’t argue. if I manage to write it, it’s good. If not, I guess not. I already failed pretty badly so I don’t really have a right to complain here. Let’s just play)

[ejjinami]

some of galron’s posts in the hood, I think make him very townie (the stuff I placed in “area boxes” is paraphrased. I’m pretty sure that I can’t quote posts from the hood so this is probably the best you’ll get.)

————-

At the beginning Galron suspected that both my slot and amelie are town. After bug claimed backup neighbor, he started trusting them as well (because that’s not a role scum would fake). So he openly claimed that he thinks the hood is likely clear of scum.
After saying that he claimed.
(all of that happened D1, near the end of the day)

Galron said that he’s just gonna out that he’s an IC and mentioned that it doesn’t matter if other people in the hood claim or not. He’s just trying to figure out who to target at night.

Later on (still before D1 EoD) he corrected that he’s an investigative role, not an innocent child and that he outed because it’s safe for him to do it there, especially knowing that there’s a town backup.

Green-checked NPOM. (he revealed it immediately after the night ended)

Today he said that if there are 2 scum in there, he just gives up.
+that he doesn’t know how luca can even suggest such a thing.

Why it’s townie:

1. getting town-reads on both amelie and my slot D1 (from my pov both townies) and claiming an investigative role is a VERY townie move imo. It makes his claim way more valid (and claiming TI D1 as scum, without any info about the setup, is a risky thing in itself. Another thing I’d like to mention is that the setup MAKES SENSE with galron’s claim. IF he is scum, he would have to make a REALLY risky move, which coincidentally worked.)

2. the frustration/bewilderment in the last post I paraphrased felt really darn genuine. Coming from a player like galron (who clearly isn’t the type to focus on faking town-tells like that), I’m decently confident that it should be AI.

[ejjinami]

and I think I figured how to explain my read on lunar after all. I have no intention to argue, if that’s not enough to convince you, so be it. I have it in my mind so lemme just get this out and ignore this later on for good

A player who seems to be a minimalist and dislikes explaining their reads, is less likely to suddenly fake their emotions or things that require precise control of their tone.
If someone gives off a vibe that writing explanations is a pain, faking subtle emotions and regularly adding small town-tells to their posts will likely seem even more of a pain to them.
This makes players like those less likely to fake stuff like that as scum. (most of the time)

Seeing a wide range of emotions (in places that make sense) from a “minimalist”, likely means that that player didn’t have to focus on faking their emotions = that they were genuine.

That’s why I didn’t want to agree that lunar’s posts could have been faked.

This also applies to my read on galron (some of their posts seem tonally good as well, especially the one I quoted (about him giving up if there are 2 scum in the hood)) and both those players give off the vibe of explaining only the bare minimum.

This CAN fail if a person is just a really good player... but from my experience, this rarely happens xD

I can handle myself ejji. I think most people realize that I'm Town. I appreciate the extra effort though.

.....
welp.... I jsut wasted my time then lol
w/e
I’m gonna post it anyway

@Other hood members

: Can you confirm that Amelie left no hints as to her role?

she didn’t. I’m pretty darn sure

[ejjinami]

btw, I’m working on my read on bug rn if anyone cares

[ejjinami]

..........is bug being scum-read because everyone except for luca refused to ISO-dive him?


it might not mean much coming from me because I was defending him from the very start but his iso looks kinda good tbh :/
I’m NOT tunneled. I swear that I’m trying to rethink my read carefully

how the heck is he getting tunneled so much lmao

[ejjinami]

*they

...right
pronouns

[ejjinami]

I don't think so. I asked him to clear me in the hood last night and it seemed like he was trying to avoid saying no
the more i think the more it's him
VOTE: galron

@bugs

don’t try to do setup spec without actually knowing my role lol
IF my role didn’t fit, I would have been the first one to sus galron
his claim works

[ejjinami]

and I ended up town-reading bugs
.......oh hey.

I placed all of the notes I made when looking through their ISO in the spoiler below. Honestly, I’m not 100% confident in reading them... I’ve seen scum fake tells like those but still, that’s not anything I’d want to lynch for today.

Spoiler:

:)

after my rice is done and I'm no longer distracteed by the physical sensation of hunter I will do a reread and talk about opinions

IIOA

grendel is town as fuck
like 262 is just so reasonable
he does some questioning with a pagetop that's worded in such an effective way. he asks questions that would cearly provoke different asnwers from town or scum and his paranoia is super healthy

also 162 implies that they are definitely neighbors or maybe masons. i don't think scum would make the kind of associative posts they are

apparently i thought grendel looked really town on page 7

amelie is scummy

i think galron's posting is towning especailly 101

VOTE: amelie

townie confidence

and you can't just say them for other people to see and talk about?
you're on my wagon

what does that even mean?

unconcerned reactions to pressure. Doesn’t seem to be in his frozen state like in the scum games I’ve read
(reminder, he seemed to have a tendency to react to pressure with stuff that basically all could be translated to “wtf”, “jeez man”, “what?”. Please look through his meta to confirm this if you want to. From what I’ve seen although there aren’t any big differences, bugs isn’t the greatest scum player :/)

that meta is trash

have you read it?

the burden of work for that trash meta is on you i'm not going to, go read some game

honestly, now that I read it, this seems more town-indicative to me as well

Bugs pretty much admitted to not reading luca’s case.
Luca yelling at him so much and bugs replying only with “lol, your result is wrong so I don’t care” seems more townie than not imo.

have you read it?

the burden of work for that trash meta is on you i'm not going to, go read some game

and this response was basically:
“no, why would I want to read it lol. Read some of my games and check it yourself. It’s wrong so it has to be trash”

“read my meta and check it lol”
btw, IF bugs is scum, he’d know that luca’s meta read on him has to be accurate. Instantly asking people to check it themselves would be............. either genius or really darn stupid

The reason I keep on bringing up the townblock is that it is annoying to scum.

actually, it's just annoying

another good response imo.
“it’s annoying to scum”
“no lol, it’s annoying to me too”

Not being afraid of saying his opinion (despite it being called a scum thing) and despite this being written after luca posted his case (and bugs was already was under pressure), is slightly townie.

im very scared of Luca because I can't read him and remember him rolling scum one time and believing he looked exactly like town!Luca and trying to elim me at any time is usually not very controversial (meta me if you're into that) and neither is wanting to elim lunar which makes me very :(

npim here is reminding me increasingly of town!formerfish

lamist lol
probably one of his worst posts

seems inconsistent with your previous post that you thought scum was jealous about not being into the townblock. why would amelie feel the need to force herself in if there's already scum in the proverbial bloc?

@BugSpray

Would a heroic

Town!Bugspray

let a poor vulnerable town be eaten alive by bugs?!



I want to hear your thoughts on more players BugSpray. Help me out?

Basically I don't have any practical experience with lots of the slots and it's hard to read newbs because you can tell what posts of theirs are ai but figuring out which alignment they are is difficult

I am bug spray. If you look at my avatar you will see that it is spraying bugs. If bugs are eating a townie and they aren't mine then I would be forced to basically beat the shit out of the townie by swatting all of the bugs on them which is a pretty scary idea.

Going to look at the npom partner equities because I feel like there was two or three people other then npom saying "no please get off the wagon" and it can be easily that one of them was town and the other two/1 exist as partners

ignoring the pressure on him and memeing + just simply trying to solve, could imply that bugs really didn’t give a crap about what luca thought of him.
Not feeling any sort of pressure to defend himself and just trying to solve the game is a townie thing to do imo

sounds good VOTE: lunar martian
that's l-1

bad vote

also why not hammer if you think it will flip red?

normal question to ask for a townie but ffs

567 looks like it's coming from scum!luca who KNOWS that it's going to flip red and is trying to make it look like i'm the one who is actually going to bus

...trying to accuse someone based on their SvS interactions with a townie seems more likely to come from town than scum
(the read is either.... emotionally good and kinda clever or just comes from a lack of TMI.)

i'm a backup neighbor lemme quote the crumb/soft

Frogster why is your ocean test better than rvs and why didn't you link us all the same one and also post your results?

NPOM and Galren might be beside one another in this wagon and I'm here to back them up

i'm a backup neighbor lemme quote the crumb/soft

I have not read up but is this role confirmed to be town like a mason or can it be scum?

it can be scum but i seriously doubt that there isn't some other town power that can confirm me tonight

“yeah, yeah, just cop check me and let’s get this over with”

how is bugs getting scum-read lmao

sorry been brain sad a few days gonna play chess and maybe read this topic later
VOTE: luca
will reread to check if galron is scum because apparently the three original members of the hood are all tpr and also there was grendel so it seems like scum must have some serious shit or someone is lying

his sudden pop-in a few days ago was the first strictly scummy thing I’ve seen in his iso.
Voting luca there could be just a crappy way of ensuring that he survives.
Bugs clearly didn’t have any reason to vote there and is likely just sheeping me to survive

i don't get how flip lm to clear me is tmi
there's two outcomes
1) lm flips town and that clears me but I don't remember why
2) lm flips scum and we get a scum elim
it's win win because with me proven green we have a very good poe pool for yeetlo and can sinch a town win

ok, I changed my mind lmao... bugs was lazy and thought that they’d get a town-clear or a scum lynch no matter what... so from his pov the vote made sense, even if it was just a sheep
it’s just dumb

[ejjinami]

You can figure out why I claimed and the timing of the claim if you try hard enough.

So again you're being cagey as to your motives. I can see a possible Town and scum motivation for revealing your supposed role N1, and right now the scum motivation seems to make more sense.

As Town, it would be foolhardy to put your trust into the hood when you could be roleblocked/killed if one of them is scum, and it could also lead to a false positive, given you were widely TR D1 and could have have been targeted by scum anyway even if the hood was pure.

As scum, you want to pocket the hood and build trust. 'Confirming' an already Townblocked player is a small price to pay for that.

LOL
no way
no way

how often does scum claim D1 to “build trust”, without any sort of info about the setup
and NPOM was not lock-town
besides, galron asked for check suggestions. I don’t think anyone answered (which is why he ended up choosing what he chose) but it’s not like he claimed and just ended there
I think he did say that he’ll check NPOM before the night ended as well so if amelie or trendal wanted to change the check, they could have.
Galron is just town

[ejjinami]

Surely Galron has to reveal his supposed N2 result?

stop scum-reading town, pretty please :)

[ejjinami]

I never said you’re conftown lmao, neither did I call you a strong town-read
just not scum.
sorry for using the wrong pronouns tho

[ejjinami]

Votecount 3.6

bugspray(4)

~ OutWorldER(5), Luca Blight(31), Frogsterking(66), Lunar Martian(42)

Luca Blight(3)

~ ejjinami(81), bugspray(26), Galron(4)


Not Voting (2): Gamma Emerald(39), joqiza(39)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

this vote count should be correct again
you’re at L-1
luca is nowhere close to getting lynched
and I have to go afk for a while again so the fastest you’ll get a case on him is in 4-5 hours
(it’s not like it’s confirmed that I’ll end up scum-reading him again anyway)
(tho I kinda hope that’ll be the case... otherwise I’ll probably end up being completely lost lol)
(I promise not to tunnel.)

[ejjinami]

I don’t think so
but I think it should be pretty obvious that my test results can’t be accurate anyway
agreeableness- 1/100 .....in this game I might be living up to it but that’s generally not the case... Unless I’m talking about my lock-town reads, I’m paranoid as heck
carefulness- 1/100.... LOL.
Openness- 26/100..... I should have gotten at least 70 imo, probably 80
Extraversion- 33/100.... eh, that one could be somewhat accurate? if I were to guess it’d be around 45???? but w/e, good enough

why do you want to hear the result of this read on yourself tho?

[ejjinami]

I wanted to make a case on luca and figure out my vote lol
but w/e, that’s the hammer. Let’s just wait then

[ejjinami]

I’m back, couldn’t write yesterday.

I claim role-blocker. Assuming there’s 1 scum left, my role works like a cop now
green check on gamma. They couldn’t have performed the factional kill

luca is lock town, frogger is lock town, gamma is lock town, joq is lock town
the PoE is [me, ower, lunar]

as long as I get 1 check more, the game will end in a mechanical win

Are you reading Ejji's absence as AI?

you can confirm with gamma that I wrote quite a bit during the night. So even if you think I’m scum, that idea is just inaccurate

what's the gamma case.

I also don't really agree with the idea of eiji possibly being town because he defended Lunar. Lunar's a tough lim after the Amelie flip.

I defended “a townie” so I am scum?
...........unless you think both I and lunar can still be scum, your logic makes absolutely no sense

[ejjinami]

Let me be frank. Some of bug’s reactions to my town-read on him indicate that they were extremely amused by my actions.

Them misrepresenting my ISO-dive as a lock-town read on them, despite me pretty much admitting that I won’t stop anyone from hammering anymore just wouldn’t make sense if I was their teammate.
I’m pretty darn sure that’s how he wanted others to see my push on him.

Me hard defending lunar and galron (who both could have became really good counterwagons to bugs) makes no sense from my pov either.

Lol, I was in the hood with galron so as scum I’d have known that I would have to kill him later on. (because of his role)
My only reasons for town-reading him were hood-related so even if I placed doubts on him, no one would ever scum-read me for it...
Convincing people that he’s town would be nothing more than self-sabotage.


I was just stupid, that’s all I have to say...

None of that matters tho.
I will get night-killed tonight. The mafia can’t use their abilities and perform the factional kill at the same time so unless there’s some sort of special role that allows them to go around all of that, me blocking anyone will just instantly ruin them.

Honestly, I don’t care who among [lunar, ower] gets lynched anymore.

I had a really strong town-read on lunar but I have to admit that his interactions with bugs were worse than mine... which is an accomplishment considering that I was basically the only person who tried to save them

I’ll block one of them tonight. If I don’t get killed and there’s a night kill tomorrow, I’ll self vote. 
If I don’t get killed and there’s no mafia kill, let’s repeat this once more and if we don’t win, I’ll self vote again.

I won’t back down from this suggestion. If I ever do, feel free to assume that I’m just scum. 
Regardless of what we do, as long as I’m not lynched today we will 99,99999% win this.
Regardless of what we do, if I’m scum I WILL die.

Honestly, I kinda want lunar to be scum because it would clearly mean that there’s something wrong with my way of reading people xD
and I could freely call myself the honorary 4th scumteam member
but that’s not a good reason to lynch him.

I don’t care who I vote, as long as it’s among my 2-people PoE, I’ll be happy.

Who did your slot target on the previous nights, ejj?

n1- trendal targeted frogster
n2- luca xd

...upon reflection, I’m aware that my targets were crap

My N2 action and there being a factional kill was a good argument for you not being in the team..... cuz you would have been the PERFECT person to perform the kill read-wise
but I just ignored that after learning that the mafia can’t perform the kill and use their abilities at the same time... xd
.....
sorry xd
I got way too tunneled...

Lunar to claim next.

there’s no space in the role list now :/
he’ll claim VT regardless of alignment

And what made you target Gamma, Ejji?

tbh nothing... them still being in the PoE
regardless who I blocked among [gamma, ower, lunar] it would have been a good action.

[ejjinami]

Town:

Amelie - BG neighbor
Galron: Neap neighbor
Grendel - Traffic Analyst
Gamma: back-up neighbor
ejj - roleblocker neighbor??

Scum:

Bugs: backup neighbor
Momrangal: informed

Think that's where we're at right now.

I’m decently confident that mom might have known about the power roles in the hood, or at least about grandel’s or amelie’s
Otherwise killing them N1 wouldn’t have made that much sense.
The last mafia role is likely powerful (and likely not a role-blocker cuz they should have targeted galron otherwise???)

[ejjinami]

Does role stop resolve before night kill?

.........this not being the case would make my role entirely useless :/

I haven’t asked about it tho.

[ejjinami]

I agree your play makes less sense from a scum!Ejji perspective, especially a scum!rolestopper.

I was working on what Gamma asked D3, and I came up with a theory that you primarily scum hunt via introspection to determine the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_attitude of others.

yeah.... that’s what I “””””””specialize””””””” in.

with results you saw before lol

funnily, I would have nailed the scum-team in the last game I was about to replace into xd
that might be one of the reasons why I got overconfident here

[ejjinami]

TBH I can't imagine anything scum could have that would make the setup balanced. I'll go take a look at the role list though.

some sort of joat or role that could disrupt the investigatives would probably work....???????????????????
honestly, no idea

[ejjinami]

lunar claiming any sort of ability will basically lock him in a thunderdome with me. There is absolutely no way there could be another strong town power-role in the setup, regardless of how powerful the last scum player is

no way whatsoever.

and entering a thunderdome now will end in a scum loss no matter what cuz both of us can just get lynched one after another. That’s why I said that he’ll claim VT regardless of alignment

TBH I can't imagine anything scum could have that would make the setup balanced. I'll go take a look at the role list though.

some sort of joat or role that could disrupt the investigatives would probably work....???????????????????
honestly, no idea

If they have the ability to disrupt investigatives then they've done a terrible job with it.

that’s... normal imo

[ejjinami]

I agree your play makes less sense from a scum!Ejji perspective, especially a scum!rolestopper.

I was working on what Gamma asked D3, and I came up with a theory that you primarily scum hunt via introspection to determine the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_attitude of others.

yeah.... that’s what I “””””””specialize””””””” in.

with results you saw before lol

funnily, I would have nailed the scum-team in the last game I was about to replace into xd
that might be one of the reasons why I got overconfident here

Wait seriously I was right about that?

How would you describe your process of introspection?

most of the time I just read other players’ posts without getting into the details
skilled scum can always fake a good read or reaction to a scum-read so I usually assume that reading into long wall-posts (and posts a player clearly put much effort into), is just a waste of time
Posts that look as if they were posted spontaneously or show emotions in an unobvious way seem to be more AI

idk if I’m doing it correctly but usually I just try to figure out what a person focuses on (what’s their mood / state of mind / motivation) and look for posts that a scum-player (who is currently focused on the stuff I found) wouldn’t focus on... then I just assume that it’s AI and try to determine how confident I am in them not doing it coincidentally

because of that, I usually get more town than scum-reads xD

funnily, besides him wanting to lynch people I town-read at the beginning of D1 (frog, npom, lunar) the main reason I was scum-reading luca for were because he only showed “readable” emotions in posts I thought he was likely to work on for a long time... he wrote the read on bugs (with lots of confidence and care), voted and just went “emotionally silent” later on.
People didn’t seem to agree with him later on yet he didn’t show any emotions related to anger because of that.
the only emotions I noticed were when he interacted with bugs again and voiced his anger for bugs being unwilling to cooperate...
if I remember it right, it was written in a way that pretty much meant: “you’re not cooperating so I don’t have a choice” = “lol, it’s not my fault that you’re getting mis-lynched”
there were no emotions when he hammered someone else either... just like: “everyone is town-reading me so I don’t care. I can push bugs tomorrow.”

when I replaced in I was dead certain that he is scum who just got town-read and lazy because of it xD
but oh well...

[ejjinami]

Personally assuming all the claims are real I don't see anything Normal in the last scum slot that could make the setup balanced IMO.

we’ll see post game then

Ejji do you agree Lunar softed PR D1 and do you think it's AI?

you claimed PR to get night-killed as well, didn’t you?

tbh I completely missed the crumb. I remember people talking about it but didn’t really bother to check it
Honestly, I’ll just wait for a claim. If he does claim PR, it’s easy, if not... idk

Just throwing this out there - is it

possible

there could be four scum, one perhaps being a traitor?

That could explain the apparent amount of Town power.

the funniest part is that even if there is one, my checks are valid :P
a traitor cannot perform the night kill as long as there’s still a living member of the mafia in the game (or at least that’s how the version of the role I know worked)

[ejjinami]

I never wanted to elim Frogster or NPOM? I've read them as Town from the start. And again, the argument was with Lunar, not Bugs.

You clearly haven't read my posts very well.

oof......
lemme look through your posts xd

sorry if that’s the case

[ejjinami]

VOTE: Amélie

This is my strongest suspicion at the moment.

134 135 137 don't really add much to the situation.

138 is another example of saying something without really saying anything. It's the kind of thing I could see scum saying just for content's sake. I also agree with Gamma's 142 in response to this.

139 I completely disagree with her reads here, and it generally seems a lazy attempt at a solve to link all the supposed 'townbloc' as being the scum team.

riiiiight! it was amelie and lunar... not frog/npom

my bad
I was reading through the thread quickly

[ejjinami]

I never wanted to elim Frogster or NPOM? I've read them as Town from the start. And again, the argument was with Lunar, not Bugs.

You clearly haven't read my posts very well.

oof......
lemme look through your posts xd

sorry if that’s the case

FYI this is why you scored in the bottom percentile of "cautiousness" (a category you've been mislabeling which is actually called conscientious, cautiousness is just a sub facet of conscientious.) It's your lack of attention to detail. If it makes you feel any better I also score in the bottom percentile.

Maybe I will write that personality comparison after all, I was starting to doubt myself but I think I was on the right track.

welp xD
at least I know where to improve then now

[ejjinami]

I think you're doing it correctly but it could be supplemented with other methods more, and your lack of organization and attention to detail is undermining your success. I suspect another dynamic is happening as well where you doubt your ability to do something because you didn't get the results you were expecting, but your ability to do the thing is fine, you weren't getting the results because of lack of planning, organization, and attention to detail. In this case your scum hunting ability wasn't a problem, it was your ability to execute it.

the lack of organization you saw here is mainly caused by me replacing in late game and having to rely pretty much only on a fast skim through the thread in order to get reads.
I skimmed through the thread, got what I got and just went with it.
Normally, I try to implement VCA and interactions in my reads as well so I don’t think that’s the main issue here. I don’t know what else I could add to fix my read accuracy...

from what I’ve seen till now, the main issue with my emotion based reads might be the day phase length on this forum. I usually play on a forum with 72h days max so most posts I analyze are “spontaneous” + the games tend to be a bit more emotional as well.
The day phases here are long enough to make stress a smaller factor, thus make players more likely to write better posts despite it.
and I’ve seen quite a few players on this site who don’t show emotions at all (or show them very rarely)... like luca, volxen, maybe irrelephant?
It seems that this way of reading can’t be applied to them at all

another problem is me misjudging people’s capabilities... but that’s something I’m still working on
bugs didn’t seem like a player I’d apply the reasoning above to
IF owe (who was in my PoE) is scum, considering the previous game I’ve read, I’d say that the results are pretty inconclusive
but if lunar is scum here, there’s probably something seriously wrong with my methods
idk what could it be caused by then :/

[ejjinami]

ngl, I really hope that’s the case
bad reads or not, getting some sort of hint to where I could improve is always a good thing

[ejjinami]

I think you're doing it correctly but it could be supplemented with other methods more, and your lack of organization and attention to detail is undermining your success. I suspect another dynamic is happening as well where you doubt your ability to do something because you didn't get the results you were expecting, but your ability to do the thing is fine, you weren't getting the results because of lack of planning, organization, and attention to detail. In this case your scum hunting ability wasn't a problem, it was your ability to execute it.

the lack of organization you saw here is mainly caused by me replacing in late game and having to rely pretty much only on a fast skim through the thread in order to get reads.
I skimmed through the thread, got what I got and just went with it.
Normally, I try to implement VCA and interactions in my reads as well so I don’t think that’s the main issue here. I don’t know what else I could add to fix my read accuracy...

from what I’ve seen till now, the main issue with my emotion based reads might be the day phase length on this forum. I usually play on a forum with 72h days max so most posts I analyze are “spontaneous” + the games tend to be a bit more emotional as well.
The day phases here are long enough to make stress a smaller factor, thus make players more likely to write better posts despite it.
and I’ve seen quite a few players on this site who don’t show emotions at all (or show them very rarely)... like luca, volxen, maybe irrelephant?
It seems that this way of reading can’t be applied to them at all

another problem is me misjudging people’s capabilities... but that’s something I’m still working on
bugs didn’t seem like a player I’d apply the reasoning above to
IF owe (who was in my PoE) is scum, considering the previous game I’ve read, I’d say that the results are pretty inconclusive
but if lunar is scum here, there’s probably something seriously wrong with my methods
idk what could it be caused by then :/

actually, nvm what I just wrote. You are completely right
emotional tells being less AI means that I should depend on other ways of reading people more

we both said the same thing but in a different way

[ejjinami]

I think I'd like to go for Trendall or OutWorldER. Failing that, NoPower or Frog.

VOTE: Trendall

This bugs me

Is this some sort of hint?

Is Lunar scum traitor, along with a Bugs, Momrangal, ejj scum team?

Just something that caught my eye.

if lunar is a traitor, mom shouldn’t have been aware of their identity
(....unless that’s what “informed” meant... but why not just add the traitor to the team as a normal scum member in that case)

[ejjinami]

eh, let me say it differently. I don’t mind lynching lunar.

if we do, he’s scum and the game doesn’t end, I’ll just get lynched after him.
if I don’t die at night and am allowed to get another check, I will eventually have to get lynched because something would clearly be wrong
I’m pretty sure we should have enough lynches left to clear the PoE anyway

[ejjinami]

ok nvm, lemme trust myself once more.
I’m reading over the stuff on lunar and got the exact same feeling I got last time... xd

I literally can’t scum-read his posts.

[ejjinami]

why are people town-reading ower btw?

[ejjinami]

.....looking at the vote counts, the scum team might have bussed heavily D1.
Mom voted all possible scum candidates except for bugs
bugs voted npom most of the time, voted lunar (as a counterwagon to him) and ended up voting ORAM (as a counterwagon as well)

trendal voted over
lunar voted bugs
ower voted bugs

this would explain why mom seemed so carefree :/
she didn’t seem to care too much about the wagon on scum because scum were already focused on faking interactions and she expected good things to happen despite a teammate being sacrificed

.............I’m not sure if I have confidence in analyzing this tbh
normally, based on this I’d say that it’s more likely the last scum ended up bussing as well but both lunar and ower were voting bugs so this gives me literally nothing

I’ll try to analyze it a bit deeper tomorrow

[ejjinami]

VOTE: ower

not set. Just placing this where I think it’ll hit

[ejjinami]

I think I know why I ended up with such a bad read on bugs.
I town-read posts for their original meaning, completely ignoring what emotions the writer was under. There were a few posts which were illogical from a scum’s pov but were written badly to the point where it was hard to distinguish their meaning

Anger/aggressiveness + being incomprehensible are good signs of stress, while stress causes risky actions
people shouldn’t be town-read for making illogical decisions if there are signs of them not being mentally ok.

taking that into consideration, the entire thing I wrote about bugs reacting well to luca’s scum-read becomes completely invalid.

...welp.

[ejjinami]

so my way of reading might not be that bad after all

as long as lunar is town, that is...

[ejjinami]

yeah, I think I just want to lynch ower.

lessons I’ve learned this game:
-wallposters who don’t show emotions often can’t be scum-read based on them.
-Taking a break after writing a long read is normal.
-signs of stress + attempts to hide it might be more AI than actions taken under them.

slightly less important:
-don’t just skim through wallposters’ posts because you’ll end up remembering only what you want to remember


good enough, I think.

[ejjinami]

wait no, there’s another one:
-if I can’t clearly distinguish a player’s mental state, be extremely wary of reading them for anything

[ejjinami]

"0 contribution" "There is no point to counter" what a fucking joke. instead of addressing any of the reasons I could not possibly be scum here you instead throw a vague dismissal of everything and push me with garbage meta that doesn't remotely match this game?

you read Among Us mafia so you should be aware that I'm also a person very conscientious of the game-state and that my first scum game was with FL who also taught me to be conscientious of the game-state? so explain why the fuck I'd be taking every action possible in this game that puts my hypothetical team in horrible situations? the answer is that i'm town.

Your ignoring sensible associative reasons to essentially push a policy elim against me.

ower.... you’re panicking XD

there’s no need to be so mad, that’s literally 1 scum-read on you.

how about I give you a different theory:
you were playing according to your scum meta at the beginning of the game, you were overly wary/nice/cautious and focused on making your posts look good, which could be clearly seen in your first scum-reads. (you scum-read grendel confidently at the beginning of the game but then immediately backed off and unvoted after gamma said that “it’s a gross oversimplification”. This already is a good example of you being afraid of the townies).
Later on, when bugs was getting pushed, you decided that luca’s push is too strong, bugs will be lynched sooner or later anyway and just bussed.

mom bussing everyone added to your confidence. The scum-team was focused on bussing D1 so even if scum got lynched, you expected to end in a good position.

You agreed with the SR on bugs D1 and are not an experienced scum player so you didn’t know how to back out of it later. The fear of being suspected made you not want to focus on anyone except for bugs, which in turn caused your contributions to drop (you got really darn silent later on).
From a town pov there should have been 1 more scum to find but from a scum’s pov, doing anything else could cause people to misread it as defending bugs.

Now you completely ignored my claim and try to push me JUST for interactions because you know that the only way you can win today is if you lynch me and kill one of the green checks.
You’re panicking because you know that you’ll lose. 
You’re getting angry because you feel in a pinch and don’t have the skills necessary to change your scum-reads naturally as scum.


what do you think? Sounds good to me :)

I don't think there's anything wrong with executing OutWorldER, Ejji can rolestop Lunar tonight if it's wrong.

idk if I posted it or not but if there’s a town-flip I’ll block the one among [luca, ower] who doesn’t get lynched
if there’s a scum flip and the game doesn’t end it’ll mean that my initial clear on gamma is unreliable and I’ll block them again

I will not change those actions without writing in the game thread first.
I will change my actions by writing about them in the hood (where only gamma would be able to see them)

—————————-

mafia can’t use their abilities and perform the factional kill at the same time (confirmed with the mod), is strongman an exception from that rule?
IF gamma is scum, they would have known about galron’s claim N1 (amelie dying means that they didn’t use the strongman ability)
they should have used the ability N2 and N3 (N2 to kill grendal and N3 because there was a kill and I blocked gamma)

So as long as a 2-shot strongman is the standard we can just agree that I’ll block gamma again in case of a town flip
(not changing the actions yet, this is just a suggestion).
Honestly, I don’t think gamma is scum anyway

[ejjinami]

ngl, regardless of who the last scum is, mom faked interactions with them well

is it possible to add 4 or 5 people in a multi ISO btw?
I’m looking through stuff rn but seeing 3 people at the same time isn’t really enough
3 only lets me see mom, bug + one of the hosts (with incomplete vote counts)

being able to check the whole scum-team + see all vote counts would be great

[ejjinami]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I did it?
hahaha, nice

[ejjinami]

mafia can’t use their abilities and perform the factional kill at the same time (confirmed with the mod), is strongman an exception from that rule?
IF gamma is scum, they would have known about galron’s claim N1 (amelie dying means that they didn’t use the strongman ability)
they should have used the ability N2 and N3 (N2 to kill grendal and N3 because there was a kill and I blocked gamma)

So as long as a 2-shot strongman is the standard we can just agree that I’ll block gamma again in case of a town flip
(not changing the actions yet, this is just a suggestion).
Honestly, I don’t think gamma is scum anyway

I feel like crap

anyway, can I get some feedback on the stuff above?

[ejjinami]

galron checked NPOM N1. They’re town
Luca is nearly confirmed town for tunneling bugs since D1
I’m not confirmed but I’ll die
I role-blocked gamma tonight and there was a kill so they are a very suboptimal lynch. 95% town imo
the PoE consists of you and ower so from your pov, ower is the only valid vote.

gamma is on V/La till tomorrow btw

[ejjinami]

that roast xD

[ejjinami]

VOTE: Lunar
he's flailing at this point, he is trying to find the best miselim and switching his vote as he changes his mind.

what do you think of ower’s latest posts?

[ejjinami]

@ower, to make this clear, you fully understand that my role is self resolving and that if I’m town, getting me lynched today is pretty much the only way to make scum win?
and IF I’m scum, I basically committed suicide a while ago as there are more than enough mis-lynches left to lynch me anyway...

yet you chose to just ignore all of that and keep pushing me for interactions?

....good tone or not, this is just a scum-claim lol

[ejjinami]

Ejji's most recent claim that he'll night block one of Luca/OutWorldER is concerning to me. That sounds like a way out for scum in his spot. If he blocks Luca and there's no kill I'd be more inclined to believe Ejji is wifoming.

Ejji's OCEAN also is 100% geared toward seeing how long they can last in this situation (unless he gets bored.) Low neuroticism, super low agreeableness and conscientiousness is a perfect temperament for this kind of action.

You’re saying that just because you don’t trust me in general. This is the most logical course of action lol, it’s not like doing that makes me scummy

and your assumption would be correct only if you assumed that scum!me would completely give up on winning...
lunar clearly doesn’t scum-read me and has shown signs of suspecting luca before, while gamma and joq were complete mysteries

assuming that I had enough confidence to still try not to die as scum, the correct course of action would be for me to just push people normally and think of some bullshit AtE to explain my defense of bugs.
+ probably still try to lynch luca :/

luca’s push bugs could be explained by the scum-team focusing on bussing D1
and it’s not like he could have backed off D2 because there was a red check on mom

Funnily, I still believe that if I decided to write my case on luca and included all of that (probably incorrect) emotion analysis, it would have still turned out rather decent
even if it wasn’t strong enough to lynch, it should have been strong enough to explain why I wanted him dead for so long :/

D4
ower- mis-lynch 
frog- kill

D5
gamma- mis-lynch
joq- kill

then I’d end up in LyLo with luca and lunar

out of which I THINK there should be a chance of me convincing lunar that luca could have been bussing... or luca that I’m just an idiot (probably less likely)
There is no need for me to pretend that “I’m testing my limits” via claiming a role that forces everyone to let me live without doing anything anyway :/
That would be a total failure as a test of skill lol

but w/e

lemme just say that. I HAVE FULL INTENTION OF VOTING MYSELF IF I DON’T DIE. The only way I live is if there is a scum role that’s immune to my actions and in that case, I’m probably better off dead before mylo/lylo.
(for multiple reasons)

if you don’t trust me, w/e. Just please don’t lynch me now lmao
That’s literally all I’m asking for

Random thought but I wonder if Momrangal was Mafia Informed of a Neapolitan. That might explain why she claimed PR in response to Grendel.

Did Galron claim his exact role before D2 or just say he had a green check? @hood

from what I remember he claimed N1

[ejjinami]

It feels like Lunar is slowly turning into Trendall, which is a shame.

I think I’m getting to the point where I don’t really care about who we lynch again... Regardless of who among ower/lunar is scum, they basically can’t win anyway

———————-

fun fact to remember in case something goes wrong. I trust gamma more than luca
Even if you ignore my role-block on them, one of their most recent actions in the hood (and game thread actually) should not have happened if they were mafia

(this is a crumb. Posting this just in case luca actually ends up being scum and I either die or get lynched. Gamma will know what to say. Ignore this post otherwise)

[ejjinami]

Ejji's most recent claim that he'll night block one of Luca/OutWorldER is concerning to me. That sounds like a way out for scum in his spot. If he blocks Luca and there's no kill I'd be more inclined to believe Ejji is wifoming.

wait, crap
I wrote luca instead of lunar

OK GOOD CATCH.

I meant this as, I’ll block the one among the PoE who doesn’t end up being lynched

[ejjinami]

i am willing to let unsettlingly sexy hollister cat live another day

:D

[ejjinami]

It doesn’t seem like there’s much to talk about, let’s just end the day.

gamma wants to lynch lunar because he seems to have given up.
joq wants lunar (for the same reason?)
Ower wants to lynch me because he town-reads everyone else.
I want to lynch ower because he ignores my role being self-resolving, which is exactly what the mafia must do if they want to win.
Luca seems to agree.
Lunar sheeped because that’s the only valid vote from his pov.

3 on ower
2 on lunar
1 on ejj

Frogster, if you don’t mind, try to decide on your vote.

[ejjinami]

When did I soft PR exactly?

I’m assuming people understood your refusal to claim as a crumb.

[ejjinami]

I'm skimming OWER's iso, and in order to believe he's scum you need to believe that he basically said, "okay, bugspray i'm gonna hard tunnel you starting d1, momrangal you hard tunnel me, we're gonna spend all game trying to get each other executed despite the fact that town has PR's, also I'm going to make no effort to make allies and in fact I'm just going to be vaguely antagonistic towards everyone. This'll work out I bet."

I don’t know if this is any different on MS but from my experience that’s EXACTLY what happens when scum decide to focus on bussing.
When 1 of them decides to hard-bus, others don’t just buddy each other. I don’t know why it works but from my experience, this rule is rarely broken

Yes, they could have randomly decided to focus on each other D1
Yes, they could have been happily trying to lynch each other
and funnily, most of the time it just works.
Mom couldn’t have predicted that they would have gotten cop-checked so from their pov, they would have only been sacrificing bugs.

Let’s just agree to disagree here

[ejjinami]

frogster will probably get replaced

damn, that’s a shame

[ejjinami]

eh, lemme just say that again in case ower gets hammered while I’m offline

If I die tonight, lunar is confirmed town.

That’s all.

[ejjinami]

if the game doesn’t end, that is

[ejjinami]

pfffft
genius xD

[ejjinami]

epic flavor, please!

[ejjinami]

wait, not even a no-kill?????????????

did I mess up that badly????

[ejjinami]

change of plans, I MUST get lynched today.

[ejjinami]

I’m not a role-blocker, I’m a macho neighbor. 
This whole charade was just a really dumb attempt to make this game a mech-win by getting killed

The only ones who could have known about this plan were gamma (whom I talked to yesterday before attempting it) and Luca (whom I stupidly ended up claiming to have blocked).

VOTE: ejjinami

but now that I think of it all of that was completely useless... Regardless of who did it, killing frogster was a big brain move

[ejjinami]

funnily, I still trust gamma over luca for a few reasons:

1- a setup with 2 scum backup neighbors would be weird

2- they seemed annoyed by me dragging out the day when bugs was getting lynched and hammered pretty much immediately after they were given a chance to (despite my town-read on bugs)

3- they faked a green check on frogster. Frogster wasn’t VT-checked, gamma just randomly thought of saying that after I fake-claimed role-blocker... They didn’t discuss it prior to that, didn’t ask for anyone to read them for it or anything... they just spontaneously went with it (and I can’t see any sort of scum-motivation in it. They’re more likely just a townie who is trying to get those who aren’t fully cleared, killed)

Galron checked me N2. Apparently he got freaked out by my setup spec as well because I pretty much claimed to not be a pure neighbor (and he read trendal as VT)... so for some reason he decided to check me
Obviously, I’m not a VT. I couldn’t have shown up as a VT regardless of what the 2nd component of my role was
so you can assume that the check just simply doesn’t exist.

[ejjinami]

I’m assuming that me getting killed means that the last mafia didn’t believe my claim... Otherwise, the obvious choice would have been to kill me

Even if frogster died (and I didn’t role-block mafia), if I really was a role-blocker and lived through the night, I would have just said that I changed my targets...

So the mafia either didn’t believe it (and made a good choice)
or made a really 0IQ play while thinking that they’ll lose

[ejjinami]

Are you fucking kidding me?

I tried. I failed.

that’s all I have to say

[ejjinami]

still, I don’t believe this was harmful to the game in any way

OWER’s move was just wrong imo. Trying to lynch me when I was guaranteeing them a town win, was a REALLY bad move
Had my claim been true, that would have been game-throwing....
sorry if I’m wrong or just being rude here. Didn’t mean to offend
This mis-lynch is on me

besides that, I still think it was worth a shot tho. It just didn’t work out this time

[ejjinami]

You pushed through a wagon on Town with your bullshit play. Big time throws. That was such a bad idea, and you almost certainly either told Mafia or proved to Mafia that you were bluffing, so the only people you fooled were Town.

you know, “pushing on a town wagon” where the supposed “townie” was the only one pushing a scum agenda is not something I’ll ever blame myself for.

I’m sorry for pushing a mis-lynch
I said that if this doesn’t work out, I’ll get lynched and even if I didn’t mean it, you would have been able to force it yourselves. OWER should have known this

Refusing to acknowledge or talk about this in any way is not something a townie should have done

That’s all I’m gonna say here.

[ejjinami]

Now I'm confused. Gamma isn't mechanically cleared, and neither is Luca, right?

they’re not.

[ejjinami]

OWER was obviously Town. OWER wasn't dying unless you force it like that.

...I disagree but eh

honestly, I find it a bit fun how you’re still town-reading me despite all of this bullshit xD
I was dead certain that I’d just get quick-hammered today

[ejjinami]

What was the scum agenda again?

assuming there’s only 1 mafia left and there’s a role that works as a cop and doctor combined, lynching the cop was the only way for the mafia to win

[Joq, Frogster, gamma] = 100% inno
[lunar, luca, ejj, OWER] = PoE
the game was in 6:1 yesterday
(3 conf townies + 3 PoE townies) + 1 scum

(I’m assuming we mis-lynch all the time, the mafia kills among the conf townies OR myself, while we lynch among the PoE)

IF I didn’t get lynched and got a green check at night, today the game would have been in:
3 conf townies + 1 PoE townie + 1 scum
We still have 2 mis-lynches left so this would have been an instant town win

IF I didn’t get lynched and got night-killed, today the game would have been in:
3 conf townies + 1 PoE townie + 1 scum
again, instant town win

IF I got lynched yesterday:
2 conf townies + 3 PoE
scum can win

So basically, as long as my claim was real, trying to lynch me would be nothing more than gamethrowing.

[ejjinami]

I assumed that scum would know that... but apparently they didn’t believe my claim since the very start

(or did but ended up making a 0 IQ move for some reason.....)

[ejjinami]

I don't see why you wanted to get shot. I also think that if the plan had worked perfectly and Mafia had No-killed that would have made things even worse for Town since you'd look really bad. I think Mafia messed up by killing last night.

because my interactions are terrible xD
I’m in the PoE so me dying is the best thing that could happen

+ I pretty much lost confidence in my reads


besides, I was planning to claim if there was a no-kill as well. I thought this through, mafia blatantly killing someone other than me was pretty much the only thing I didn’t consider

[ejjinami]

@mod

is mafia allowed to no-kill?

[ejjinami]

now that I think of it, I never really bothered checking

[ejjinami]

That's why I'm pissed. I had a winning PoE with a spare elim, and we squandered that.

sorry xd

[ejjinami]

Galron checked me N2. Apparently he got freaked out by my setup spec as well because I pretty much claimed to not be a pure neighbor (and he read trendal as VT)... so for some reason he decided to check me

Wouldn't even just a regular Town Neighbor show up as not VT? Am I wrong abt that? I don't get why he checked you if that's the case.

A neighbor is a neighbor, not a vanilla townie... Or at least that’s how I understand it
I think he just got confused

Except your mechanical win is a lie since Gamma isn't really clear. We only had 2 miselims left, and there are 3 or four Town in the PoE. Our odds of winning went down, especially since you convinced me to vote for someone I had removed from my PoE.

I mean, it should have still made it way more likely for mafia to want to kill me? That was the main goal there, I couldn’t have given anyone a mech win anyway

Sorry for misguiding you as well. I guess 2 people already mean something :/

could you tell me how I could have avoided it? OWER was in my PoE since the beginning of the game so I’ll admit that I didn’t consider that aspect of it. If I screwed up here, I’m sorry.

The only thing I know I could have done better is claim a RB on gamma N2 and N3... this would make them the only person who could have known about my role
According to one of the posts bugs wrote, he believed me to be an investigative D3, so it’s highly unlikely that the mafia had info about my role prior to N3 (and they can’t use any abilities with only 1 mafia remaining so checking me N3 wouldn’t be an option either)

[ejjinami]

@ejj

Like Lunar said I let the OWER hang go through because I thought we were essentially in mech autowin. If we end up losing to scum!Luca your play probably wouldn't make the difference, but if scum ends up being in Lunar/Gamma and they win, it probably comes down to the point on your racket yesterday.

from my pov, I thought you all would want to lynch me D4... So it was either dying from a lynch or using the mafia to get rid of me instead
gamma, luca, ower or lunar... as long as I got lynched, the PoE would have still stayed bad :/

but it seems that I made a bad judgement here as well

Another question: why were you assuming that mafia would target you? I don't understand why they'd ever choose to nightkill you if they believed your claim.

because role-blocker works as a cop when there’s only 1 mafia remaining xD
if they believed my claim and had no way to defend themselves against it, what else would they want to do?

[ejjinami]

actually, some feedback would be appreciated.
I judged that if I’m bound to get lynched anyway, trying to force mafia to night-kill me might be worth a shot.

From what I see, I overestimated how much people scum-read me and made a mistake by claiming a block on too many people (N1 frog, N2+N3 gamma would have been better)

is there anything else I could have changed?
If you think it was not worth trying, I’d be grateful for talking about that as well. I asked about it a bit in the hood but getting more opinions would be great
I’ll try to correct myself in the future

P.edit:

Also to me it doesn't make sense for mafia to target you because mafia is either 1. gamma, and they know you're capping, 2. one of Luca/Lunar, and if they believe your claim they believe Gamma is cleared, so by killing you they'd just lock in a PoE of 2 when town has 2 eliminations.

that’s why it was also a reaction test xD
I tried threatening gamma a bit in the hood. Like, making it clear that I strongly believe that my plan will work and that I’ll heavily scum-read them if it doesn’t. I stopped later on cuz I ended up finding reasons to town-read him
but eh

giving luca potential info was a mistake...

N3 I believed that mafia was among [gamma, lunar, ower]... giving info only to gamma didn’t seem like a bad move to me then (as even in case of everything failing, this could have still been informative)
I apologize tho, I realize that I screwed up there

[ejjinami]

Ejji, who was going to vote you? I don't understand what the hell was going through your head... a couple people scumread you, but that's not the same as you dying for sure. Killing a Townie to save yourself is never a good trade. Especially if it's a Townie people recognize as Town.

Spoiler:

VOTE: eijinami

defended bugs really hard and that iso-analysis was trash. I think when eiji replaced into this game they knew their slot and team were going down hard and were desperately trying to salvage it.

Ejj is scum, I think.

N1 Amelie definitely protected Galron, and scum most probably targeted Galron based on her death. I need to do more analysis later.

eijinami needs to claim and give any reports they have to share, for sure. gamma can act as a fact-check.

And good, I'm glad to hear it. I know the game isn't over yet but my feeling is the last is in Ejji/Lunar and that town has done really well this game.

And if Galron was blocked N2 then presumably he’d have been less trusting of the hood?

Yeah that makes sense.

VOTE: Ejji

xD
you were literally the only person who town-read me

frogster- 100% town - hard scum-read on me
luca- (previously believed 99% town) - hard scum-read on me
OWER- PoE - very hard scum-read on me
Gamma- PoE - seemed suspicious in the hood but close to null
Joq- lock town - no idea
lunar- PoE - town-read

as long as we got to LyLo and there was at least 1 townie who scum-read me, we’d have lost. I can’t change my interactions and mafia wouldn’t kill people with incorrect reads
Trying to die in the most beneficial way possible was the best idea I thought of...

I did NOT think of that as of killing a “townie” to save myself tho
besides you, ower was still my biggest suspect
This might have been a bit selfish tho... I didn’t consider that it would force people to move their PoEs closer to mine

[ejjinami]

actually, some feedback would be appreciated.

I'll go through the game... at some point. I think ejj may need to just Die today but I can give my thoughts for f3 if he flips town. To be frank I'm a bit burned out on mafia right now.

then just vote me. I’d very much prefer to get lynched today than in F3

I’ll just give my thoughts, post my solve and... that’s probably it. You don’t really have to listen to me either, it’s not like my solve will get any better than anyone else’s here

VOTE: Ejji

hi frogster xD

[ejjinami]

.....I had this response in my open tabs but it seems I haven’t posted it
welp

Ejji if you can explain how mafia targetting you last night would have actually given autowin, that might help me understand your perspective.

I mean, this obviously wouldn’t work if the last mafia was a strongman or ascetic.

The mafia cannot use their abilities and perform the factional kill at the same time, which means that unless the last mafia was one of the roles above, they should have been afraid of a role-blocker.

Even if my checks weren’t perfect, the townies wouldn’t want to lynch those I checked.
and as long as the mafia had no way to defend themselves, they would have thought that me targeting them will always result in a semi-guilty check on them...

I presented the math here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12563681
I did exaggerate it a bit when saying that the game would be a “mech win”... but a game with 1-neap checked VT, 2 townies (who couldn’t have performed the factional kill), 1 role-blocker and 1 scum, would have 99% ended with the townies lynching the scum anyway.

[ejjinami]

People were literally laughing at me because I was voting "confirmed" Town. You have to give yourself and your fellow Town more credit than that. People don't just automatically vote like that in elo. Anyway, again. Not a discussion for right here and now. Who are your current scumreads and why?

if not for the green check, I’d have more reasons to town-read all of you than joq... but apparently godfather isn’t a role commonly seen in normal games so the check on them being incorrect is really darn unlikely

no idea. If I were to take a guess right now, I’d probably still clear gamma... His way of hammering bugs + the setup make really good arguments for him being inno
I wrote quite a bit about bugs being “town”, yet he was like “ehh, you’re done now so I can hammer, right?” without even bothering to see if anyone would be convinced by it...

but I thought the exact same about luca’s interactions with bugs a day ago xd

and there’s still that part of my brain who wants to town-read you for tone.... despite you being the only one besides me with terrible interactions here


IF I were to place a shot..... luca?????????? but I’m pretty darn sure the only reason I think that way is because I don’t want my early game reads to turn out to be complete crap xd

Those are not reads btw... idk how to even call it but it’s closer to gut-guesses
planning to take a better look at this tomorrow
idk why I’m even writing this when I know that I have no intention of voting based on any of this anyway

ejji the reason mafia kills outside you is if they take your claim at face value they're already in autoloss

nothing they can do matters if you're actually town roleblocker who's cleared gamma. if they kill you they lock themselves in the PoE anyway.

so unless they're strongman or ascetic like you mentioned they just play in the universes where you're lying about that role, cuz in the universes where you're telling the truth their decisions don't matter

and given how cracked a pure town hood with an investigative/protective/roleblocker would've been, it wouldn't be hard for mafia to make the deduction that your claim isn't real.

well... that’s fair

Mechanically I think it makes sense for there to be two Mafia with potential access to the hood, especially since one is a back-up. Luca isn't in the hood, right?

tbh, setup-vise, it makes more sense for me to be mafia than gamma imo...
2 town neighbors + 1 scum neighbor
1 town backup + 1 scum backup

makes more sense than

3 town neighbors
2 scum backups

why add 2 backups at all in that case?
I remember gamma and bugs being surprised that there’s another backup btw (cuz they both joined at the same time after amelia died)... but I’ll have to check if it looks readable in any way or not

[ejjinami]

actually, I’m getting more and more curious of luca’s emotional range in his other games.... looking up his meta will probably not give great results but I kinda wanna do it after all

[ejjinami]

I have an exam today. I haven’t read most of the stuff yet, just appearing now to say that I’ve been busy.
This will likely be the case for at least a week cuz I’ll have tests every 1-2 days from now on. I’ll get to solving after writing it (and probably a 1-2h nap cuz I haven’t slept much at night) so please, be a bit patient with me for the next few days.

The one thing I’d like to say in my defense is that I shared my idea with the hood and asked for feedback before galron died because I’m not experienced with this kind of stuff either. So it’s not like I was “expecting it to be anti-town” or anything.
Neither gamma nor galron gave me any sort of negative feedback (nor actually tried discussing it with me too much)
Yes, I lied, but you really cannot say that I was being openly deceptive.

[ejjinami]

I’m screwed, I’m so screwed. I thought I’d be able to post yesterday after cramming, but I wasn’t. I thought I’d be able to post today but I’m just not
Tomorrow is my last exam till monday but I’m not sure if I’ll have the luxury to take an 1-2h break during the weekend either.

I can’t promise activity. I’ll try to squeeze in a moment to try to decide whom to vote but that’s probably it. 
If you’re fine with that kind of activity, I’ll try to do at least the bare minimum... if not, I’ll probably have to replace out.

sorry