Mini 2186: Pokemon Battles [GAME OVER]

[Smoke and Mirrors]

On my extremely brief skim, Chara looks like town. Don’t understand the votes on Titus. I will probably need to see Noraa’s posts to correctly aligned read Infinity Zero.

@Titus wtf exactly is an “aesthetic coward”?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

this is becoming quite foolish
I didn't expect to be playing with a creepypasta and a lolcat this game
-Protocol

Is this Noraa?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

sorry, Nancy, i didn't mean to exclude you. i said hello to Pooky and kitty specifically because they were in the last game i played and had to rep out of.

It just seems that for some reason I become invisible in hydras unless I’m the most active member. Anyway np.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

this is becoming quite foolish
I didn't expect to be playing with a creepypasta and a lolcat this game
-Protocol

Is this Noraa?

NM, sorry Gamma.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Titus wtf exactly is an “aesthetic coward”?

ascetic coward. coward lets her run away from battles, apparently.

Not as cool as town!dolphin, my role in Post Apocalypse but interesting. I’m just letting Pooky deal with the mech stuff.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUS VOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUS VOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUS VOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUS VOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUS VOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUS VOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUSVOTE: TITUS

What’s the basis of this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Perfume, do I know you? Have we played before under a different account of yours? You don’t need to out it if so but it might possibly affect my read on you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

hello everyone!
and it's nice to see you again, kitty. also Pooky. :>

Pika Pi!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hi nancy, protocol is gamma emerald. Noraa isn't in this game. Why do you think you'll have difficulty reading me?

-Inf

I probably won’t have that much trouble reading either of you, it’s just that I thought Noraa would be an easier read.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think smoke and mirrors and infinity something are the two most significant slots to place at the moment.

Which may or may not include purging with extreme passion

Do I know you?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

There's evil afoot between Infinity and Smoke and Mirrors I can smell it.

Thar she blows

Do you have issues with either of us? Why do you keep mentioning us together?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not calling a scumteam with no flips. Merely that those two players have pinged.

Are you actually going to bother to explain what I have done that qualifies as that?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Think Chara, Raya, Titus, Mystix and jjh is town. Null on Infinity Zero but I dislike bob’s push on them. I really don’t understand how our hydra got lumped in with theirs. I literally just finished a game where scum made a ridiculously strong push like that for bizarre reasons right out of the gate, so I’m thinking bob is suspicious.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 7

• Infinity Zero
  -------- 2 ( Chara, Wellermanbob, Vaxkiller )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 1 ( Perfume )
  
  Vaxkiller
  ------------ 1 ( jjh927 )
  
  Perfume
  -------------- 1 ( Titus )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 1 ( Raya36 )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 1 ( Infinity Zero )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 1 ( Catboi )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 1 ( Red )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 0 ( No One )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( No One )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Twins Akari and Mara
  - 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 3 ( Mistyx, Smoke and Mirrors, Twins Akari and Mara )

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-11 20:01:00)

@mod can we have an updated VC please?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Y'all can T v T. Meanwhile Perfume has been dodging this thread since we got out of RVS.

I don't think this is TvT tbh? Like there's a brewing anti- bob sentiment in the thread which is, if you'll allow me the assumption of being correct on my scumread of Infinity, makes sense as the pieces start to fall together.

Okay, explain this to me then and why you lumped us in with them?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Mara doesn't really like the Bob guy either. He seems so mean, like super mean

This made me lol.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't really want to give away exactly how I read titus, and it's not perfect anyway. The best way to put it in the most simplest of words is

Overexplained in a way that will rub some people the wrong way.

Appearing to be doing things that others cant see is another bonus.

Her tone reads townie but it’s probably too soon for a hard read but rn, I lean town on her.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Infinity Zero

Lets try this

This vote feels a little oddly placed. We have all the early game nonsense going on and of all the slots weller decides to vote ours? It doesn't make sense why he singled us out and he never explains it.

Okay goodnight

Don't like the tone of this either.

Hi nancy, protocol is gamma emerald. Noraa isn't in this game. Why do you think you'll have difficulty reading me?

-Inf

Are you actually going to do anything with this information or are you just asking to fill the airwaves though?

That wasn't me asking the question but what's wrong with it? Maybe it'll just end up being noise but you can't tell if you don't ask (at least for that one). Though I do think it would be nice if Nancy defined why she thinks Infinity will be hard to sort, as well as possibly why she mistook me for Noraa.

Not liking bob perfume and vax but that list contains at most 1 scum due to

voting theory.

go on

I get the sense just ignoring Titus will be best for the game regardless of their alignment

This just seems overblown. In further posts weller takes issue with Titus' current approach, so why this comment that seems like he's writing her off for the entire game. In a certain sense it feels like he's discrediting her, which I think scum generally would be invested in doing with how she plays.

Do you think my reads are bad?

I think they're indistinguishable from throwing darts at a board at the moment because you've offered up reasoning that doesn't seem relevant AND you're publicly explaining them all which combines for a nasty distraction in my opinion

I can see how the reads seem like throwing darts, but I feel like it's a bit of a style thing with Titus where she tends to prefer those data-based reads (what with how she focuses on VCA aand doesn't like d1s). So it's pretty much the way she works that is being picked at. In addition it seems like OMGUS driven shade given him being in that suspect pool he responded to saying he'd ignore her, and 138 kinda affirms my sense that he reflexively shaded Titus there in response to her sussing him in particular.

I think smoke and mirrors and infinity something are the two most significant slots to place at the moment.

Which may or may not include purging with extreme passion

I think this post is disingenuous for two reasons. First, he suggests placing us and S&M quickly, but I don't really see anything actually

engaging

with our slots, all he's doing is pushing us with no reasoning set out at all for it. It's a shallow attempt to look like he's sorting but his words don't match his actions in any way. The second issue is his mention of purging us with "burning passion". That doesn't really harmonize with how he's pushed us, yes he's pushed us a lot but it feels like he doesn't really care about it, it's not his goal to push us. And if it's not his goal, then it's a step to some other goal, presumably pushing town and driving a scum agenda. To expand on how he doesn't have real passion in his push, in 144, his response to Vaxkiller voting us is just to pat Vax on the back for doing it. It doesn't read like he's really caring to put in a full try on pushing us.

I am explaining my reads

You're explaining reads but they are not useful because you are applying a book on draughts to a game of canasta

I'm pretty concerned with how weller is dealing with explaining reads. Further down in 208 he says he doesn't feel like explaining his reads makes it easier to track his thought process (or I presume that's what he was saying). Well, why? You have people like Titus and Chara who are actually explaining themselves pretty effectively, and people can actual engage and potentially agree on those explanations, which a) helps build trust since they can see where the other person is coming from (and even if they don't agree the thought process is still out there which can be determined as sensible or not), and b) if someone agrees on a scumread they'll vote with you. weller has been pushing us without giving any real logic, which can gain interest from some but rarely carries weight in actually limming someone. This could be a massive playstyle issue but weller isn't interested in putting up the needed effort to work with the town it seems, which as I'll get into later seems scummy in spots.

No I meant 96/97 whoops

weller keeps picking at that interaction as why we and S&M are scummy, but here's the thing, those posts didn't exist when he dropped his vote onto us. He's trying to retroactively justify his read, if there is a thing he saw before then it's impossible to tell because he's not explaining it, which is why explaining reads is so crucial.

There's evil afoot between Infinity and Smoke and Mirrors I can smell it.

Thar she blows

This doesn't look like a real thought. It seems like someone tried to draw a beautiful sunrise and just created a bunch of spots of color on a page, there's no emotional substance in how weller expresses himself here. With his previous assertion that he wanted to lim us with a burning passion, it seems like he's trying to fake a solving drive that doesn't exist.

I would argue the current gamestate is fine for town.

Why do you think it's bad?

The current gamestate is not very easy to form real reads in. With so many people doing their own nonsense thing, it's hard to actually engage with anyone and have it mean anything. So trying to move out of that makes it easier to form reads, which is pro-town. While I'd say progress has been made we're still not really anywhere near where we should be rn. weller's play has done nothing to really improve gamestate and kinda feels like he's exploiting it to an extent, with his lack of visible logic working into the inscrutable nonsense of the game.

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

This happens again later, but weller is kinda dodging explaining his own reads by asking a bunch of questions to deflect the point. As has been asserted multiple times, the intent was to sort weller's thought process vs. trying to interpret us. But it seems like weller can't really put out a logic for how he came to scumread us and so strongly, so he has to ask deflecting questions in order to put off the demands to explain himself.

I'm not calling a scumteam with no flips. Merely that those two players have pinged.

This does not click with him saying us and S&M are up to no good. Why are you saying things like that if you're not okay forming associative reads rn?

we are, which is why i conceded i got a read out of it, but getting information out of you is like pulling teeth, and it doesn't need to be that way. for example, it wasn't clear until just now that you weren't calling them teamed, because that is how it sounded to me.

Read infinity's ISO then and tell me what you think. I'll respond!

As I pointed out before, weller is dodging having to explain his read on us, this time by suggesting someone read us and give their own read, "and then he'll respond". This puts burden of proof on others so he can say "oh yeah that what I was thinking" without having to actually make to effort to find reasons himself. Again, he has no logic of his own because he rushed into a read as scum, so he now has to get others to find reasons that he can then call his own.

we are, which is why i conceded i got a read out of it, but getting information out of you is like pulling teeth, and it doesn't need to be that way. for example, it wasn't clear until just now that you weren't calling them teamed, because that is how it sounded to me.

Read infinity's ISO then and tell me what you think. I'll respond!

i think Infinity hasn't really towntold so far. they're asking a lot of questions and i haven't seen much direction from the slot, as well. i would have expected some follow up from the vote on me. my vote's still there, in any case.

Yeah largely agree. There's also the part where it took them a long time to figure out the correct way to approach me voting them/wanting them dead/being townread by other people

As called earlier, weller's response to chara was to claim he agrees.
Also, a question for weller: how new do you think we are to this game?

I've been ready to eliminate you. That's how the game works yaknow

Really? Because it's not evident at all that you have any real care towards getting us limmed from your posts.

-Protocol

I don’t get your Chara read but it looked to me like bob was scumreading something that read NAI to me. Him claiming it made him suspicious wouldn’t be bad at all because that’s what it looks like Chara’s doing but his scumread on you just seems overstated for what it’s based on. I suppose it’s also possible he could just be bad town but his push on you just seems excessive to me and lumping us in with you pings me as possible chainsawing.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Infinity Zero

Lets try this

This vote feels a little oddly placed. We have all the early game nonsense going on and of all the slots weller decides to vote ours? It doesn't make sense why he singled us out and he never explains it.

Okay goodnight

Don't like the tone of this either.

Hi nancy, protocol is gamma emerald. Noraa isn't in this game. Why do you think you'll have difficulty reading me?

-Inf

Are you actually going to do anything with this information or are you just asking to fill the airwaves though?

That wasn't me asking the question but what's wrong with it? Maybe it'll just end up being noise but you can't tell if you don't ask (at least for that one). Though I do think it would be nice if Nancy defined why she thinks Infinity will be hard to sort, as well as possibly why she mistook me for Noraa.

Not liking bob perfume and vax but that list contains at most 1 scum due to

voting theory.

go on

I get the sense just ignoring Titus will be best for the game regardless of their alignment

This just seems overblown. In further posts weller takes issue with Titus' current approach, so why this comment that seems like he's writing her off for the entire game. In a certain sense it feels like he's discrediting her, which I think scum generally would be invested in doing with how she plays.

Do you think my reads are bad?

I think they're indistinguishable from throwing darts at a board at the moment because you've offered up reasoning that doesn't seem relevant AND you're publicly explaining them all which combines for a nasty distraction in my opinion

I can see how the reads seem like throwing darts, but I feel like it's a bit of a style thing with Titus where she tends to prefer those data-based reads (what with how she focuses on VCA aand doesn't like d1s). So it's pretty much the way she works that is being picked at. In addition it seems like OMGUS driven shade given him being in that suspect pool he responded to saying he'd ignore her, and 138 kinda affirms my sense that he reflexively shaded Titus there in response to her sussing him in particular.

I think smoke and mirrors and infinity something are the two most significant slots to place at the moment.

Which may or may not include purging with extreme passion

I think this post is disingenuous for two reasons. First, he suggests placing us and S&M quickly, but I don't really see anything actually

engaging

with our slots, all he's doing is pushing us with no reasoning set out at all for it. It's a shallow attempt to look like he's sorting but his words don't match his actions in any way. The second issue is his mention of purging us with "burning passion". That doesn't really harmonize with how he's pushed us, yes he's pushed us a lot but it feels like he doesn't really care about it, it's not his goal to push us. And if it's not his goal, then it's a step to some other goal, presumably pushing town and driving a scum agenda. To expand on how he doesn't have real passion in his push, in 144, his response to Vaxkiller voting us is just to pat Vax on the back for doing it. It doesn't read like he's really caring to put in a full try on pushing us.

I am explaining my reads

You're explaining reads but they are not useful because you are applying a book on draughts to a game of canasta

I'm pretty concerned with how weller is dealing with explaining reads. Further down in 208 he says he doesn't feel like explaining his reads makes it easier to track his thought process (or I presume that's what he was saying). Well, why? You have people like Titus and Chara who are actually explaining themselves pretty effectively, and people can actual engage and potentially agree on those explanations, which a) helps build trust since they can see where the other person is coming from (and even if they don't agree the thought process is still out there which can be determined as sensible or not), and b) if someone agrees on a scumread they'll vote with you. weller has been pushing us without giving any real logic, which can gain interest from some but rarely carries weight in actually limming someone. This could be a massive playstyle issue but weller isn't interested in putting up the needed effort to work with the town it seems, which as I'll get into later seems scummy in spots.

No I meant 96/97 whoops

weller keeps picking at that interaction as why we and S&M are scummy, but here's the thing, those posts didn't exist when he dropped his vote onto us. He's trying to retroactively justify his read, if there is a thing he saw before then it's impossible to tell because he's not explaining it, which is why explaining reads is so crucial.

There's evil afoot between Infinity and Smoke and Mirrors I can smell it.

Thar she blows

This doesn't look like a real thought. It seems like someone tried to draw a beautiful sunrise and just created a bunch of spots of color on a page, there's no emotional substance in how weller expresses himself here. With his previous assertion that he wanted to lim us with a burning passion, it seems like he's trying to fake a solving drive that doesn't exist.

I would argue the current gamestate is fine for town.

Why do you think it's bad?

The current gamestate is not very easy to form real reads in. With so many people doing their own nonsense thing, it's hard to actually engage with anyone and have it mean anything. So trying to move out of that makes it easier to form reads, which is pro-town. While I'd say progress has been made we're still not really anywhere near where we should be rn. weller's play has done nothing to really improve gamestate and kinda feels like he's exploiting it to an extent, with his lack of visible logic working into the inscrutable nonsense of the game.

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

This happens again later, but weller is kinda dodging explaining his own reads by asking a bunch of questions to deflect the point. As has been asserted multiple times, the intent was to sort weller's thought process vs. trying to interpret us. But it seems like weller can't really put out a logic for how he came to scumread us and so strongly, so he has to ask deflecting questions in order to put off the demands to explain himself.

I'm not calling a scumteam with no flips. Merely that those two players have pinged.

This does not click with him saying us and S&M are up to no good. Why are you saying things like that if you're not okay forming associative reads rn?

we are, which is why i conceded i got a read out of it, but getting information out of you is like pulling teeth, and it doesn't need to be that way. for example, it wasn't clear until just now that you weren't calling them teamed, because that is how it sounded to me.

Read infinity's ISO then and tell me what you think. I'll respond!

As I pointed out before, weller is dodging having to explain his read on us, this time by suggesting someone read us and give their own read, "and then he'll respond". This puts burden of proof on others so he can say "oh yeah that what I was thinking" without having to actually make to effort to find reasons himself. Again, he has no logic of his own because he rushed into a read as scum, so he now has to get others to find reasons that he can then call his own.

we are, which is why i conceded i got a read out of it, but getting information out of you is like pulling teeth, and it doesn't need to be that way. for example, it wasn't clear until just now that you weren't calling them teamed, because that is how it sounded to me.

Read infinity's ISO then and tell me what you think. I'll respond!

i think Infinity hasn't really towntold so far. they're asking a lot of questions and i haven't seen much direction from the slot, as well. i would have expected some follow up from the vote on me. my vote's still there, in any case.

Yeah largely agree. There's also the part where it took them a long time to figure out the correct way to approach me voting them/wanting them dead/being townread by other people

As called earlier, weller's response to chara was to claim he agrees.
Also, a question for weller: how new do you think we are to this game?

I've been ready to eliminate you. That's how the game works yaknow

Really? Because it's not evident at all that you have any real care towards getting us limmed from your posts.

-Protocol

I don’t get your Chara read but it looked to me like bob was scumreading something that read NAI to me. Him claiming it made him suspicious wouldn’t be bad at all because that’s what it looks like Chara’s doing but his scumread on you just seems overstated for what it’s based on. I suppose it’s also possible he could just be bad town but his push on you just seems excessive to me and lumping us in with you pings me as possible chainsawing.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Nancy does your tone tend to differ based on your alignment?

-Inf

I don’t know about tone but I think my enthusiasm is greater as town because I really enjoy solving and puzzles and when I’m scum it feels like effort, so I don’t know if that answers your question or not.

I tell everyone this: You can’t reliably read me on 3 things: AtE, derping and activity. However, anyone who’s extemely familiar with my meta - who actually pays attention that is - should be able to reliably read me and they are certain players I would expect to read accurately more than others.

What is Gamma’s read on me? I think you guys mistakenly read something into my derping about Noraa that was literally just that. I didn’t check page 1 and I just auto assumed Noraa was in your hydra for some reason. It really had more to do with my confidence in reading Noraa > you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It sure is funny that whenever you put people on the to die list they always come around and scumread you in the end:)

I would scumread someone for that if I felt that their read on me was overstated and didn’t make sense to me, so I don’t know why that would surprise you?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It sure is funny that whenever you put people on the to die list they always come around and scumread you in the end:)

I would scumread someone for that if I felt that their read on me was overstated and didn’t make sense to me, so I don’t know why that would surprise you?

I just finished a game where scum!player X told townplayer Y that they shouldn’t even be alive, so I personally get pinged by excessively strong reads like that if they seem excessive to me. It could just be a playstyle thing which is why I’d really like to hear you make a case on Infinity Zero because your extremely strong scumread on them isn’t really making sense to me. So please explain it, thanks.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gamma hasn't talked about you yet. I mostly feel like you sound a lot different from shape of water and much more similar to PyP, like you had a more confident tone in shape of water. I'll see if gamma agrees with me there. It's obvious enough that you're pretty likely to have changed it if there was a real difference, since you seem pretty good at scum. Maybe I'll do a quick meta look though.

-Inf

How do I sound even remotely here like PyP to you?

You might also want to check out Dung Beetle - both versions.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gamma hasn't talked about you yet. I mostly feel like you sound a lot different from shape of water and much more similar to PyP, like you had a more confident tone in shape of water. I'll see if gamma agrees with me there. It's obvious enough that you're pretty likely to have changed it if there was a real difference, since you seem pretty good at scum. Maybe I'll do a quick meta look though.

-Inf

How do I sound even remotely here like PyP to you?

You might also want to check out Dung Beetle - both versions.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34894

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gamma hasn't talked about you yet. I mostly feel like you sound a lot different from shape of water and much more similar to PyP, like you had a more confident tone in shape of water. I'll see if gamma agrees with me there. It's obvious enough that you're pretty likely to have changed it if there was a real difference, since you seem pretty good at scum. Maybe I'll do a quick meta look though.

-Inf

How do I sound even remotely here like PyP to you?

You might also want to check out Dung Beetle - both versions.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34894

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34894

I linked both versions for you. I think comparing this game or pretty much any of my games with The Shape of Water - where you also couldn’t tell I was town - is an unfair comparison because we literally had a blatantly obvious scum slot which was Bulge. That’s not exactly typical.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gamma hasn't talked about you yet. I mostly feel like you sound a lot different from shape of water and much more similar to PyP, like you had a more confident tone in shape of water. I'll see if gamma agrees with me there. It's obvious enough that you're pretty likely to have changed it if there was a real difference, since you seem pretty good at scum. Maybe I'll do a quick meta look though.

-Inf

How do I sound even remotely here like PyP to you?

You might also want to check out Dung Beetle - both versions.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34894

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34894

I linked both versions for you. I think comparing this game or pretty much any of my games with The Shape of Water - where you also couldn’t tell I was town - is an unfair comparison because we literally had a blatantly obvious scum slot which was Bulge. That’s not exactly typical.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35119

And just to be super generous, I even linked the town game I just finished literally hours ago. Enjoy.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

has pooky posted yet?
also I do wanna know why you thought I was noraa, nancy
-Protocol

He posted the poke gif.

What is Gamma’s read on me? I think you guys mistakenly read something into my derping about Noraa that was literally just that. I didn’t check page 1 and I just auto assumed Noraa was in your hydra for some reason. It really had more to do with my confidence in reading Noraa > you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don’t get your Chara read but it looked to me like bob was scumreading something that read NAI to me. Him claiming it made him suspicious wouldn’t be bad at all because that’s what it looks like Chara’s doing but his scumread on you just seems overstated for what it’s based on. I suppose it’s also possible he could just be bad town but his push on you just seems excessive to me and lumping us in with you pings me as possible chainsawing.

i'm not sure what you're saying here, in reference to the difference between me and bob. what i'm assuming is that you mean bob's push is suspicious and mine isn't because he seems sure Infinity is scum for it.

It could also be playstyle since Infinity’s push on you also reads a bit overstated but he also implied he scumread us soley based on a question that Infinity asked us, so it was partially that because he still hasn’t explained how our slot figures into it. I have no meta on bob but that’s not for a lack of trying. The only post of his I could find was in the signup thread. Also for me unless a slot feels obviously scummy like Bulge did In The Shape of Water, I question how either IZ or bob can have that strong a scumread because as you know I’m far more likely to have confident townreads than scumreads on D1.

I think you sound here similar to how you did in Cards of Destiny and I understand what you said about Titus. I too lean town on her but it is also true that her telling the truth about her role is NAI, so I didn’t read anything into that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i don't think Nancy's very readable on tone but she does have a very distinct pattern as town that makes her (semi-consistently) readable once she gets going. i recognize this is vague and unhelpful but i feel like i'd embarrass myself trying to explain it, and also i don't want to. the point is i don't think tonally comparing her to one or two games would be as useful as looking at how she solves and what she reacts to.

+1

You could also add how much she solves because I do a helluva lot more of that as town because it’s actually fun when you’re town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i don't think Cards of Destiny is a

great

metric for my play, because i was definitely phoning it in for large swathes of that game. but i get what you're saying re: bob and Infinity.

i assumed bob was from another site, but his comment about not knowing me makes me wonder if he's an alt. i guess it doesn't really matter.

Likely either an alt or he’s a huge pokemon fan from another site. Well perhaps TBoNTB is a better example but I’ve seen your scumgame and “smug” or “comfortable” definitely aren’t words I’d use to describe it. Infinity seems to read confidence and whatever he views as being opionated as scum indicative from what I’ve read from some of his games. I do think that is true for players like DGB for example but not everyone but I think Gamma is the easier half of that slot to read. Probably because I have no experience with scum!Infinity but I do with scum!Gamma.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It sure is funny that whenever you put people on the to die list they always come around and scumread you in the end:)

I would scumread someone for that if I felt that their read on me was overstated and didn’t make sense to me, so I don’t know why that would surprise you?

I just finished a game where scum!player X told townplayer Y that they shouldn’t even be alive, so I personally get pinged by excessively strong reads like that if they seem excessive to me. It could just be a playstyle thing which is why I’d really like to hear you make a case on Infinity Zero because your extremely strong scumread on them isn’t really making sense to me. So please explain it, thanks.

@bob did you miss this post? You being dismissive to people isn’t helping me to understand why you scumread Infinity Zero.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

a weak part of a different case

I think my point is I don't think there was a single thing in the "case" that wasn't similarly pointless and not evidence. So while I'm taking some easy comedy there is actually a point about Infinity's play hidden here somewhere. I'm having trouble working the other people who were like "I don't like bob lets vote bob" because it feels like it's not game related and simply disagreements with who I am.

But to get back to the relevant part - imagine you are Inifinit and you are being pushed by some person completely new to your site, they don't really offer reasons and you don't know what to do. Over a day and a hundred or so posts after dancing around the subject you gradually get to a public scumread. And then right after declaring you want to justify it to be different (and because it feels a bit awkward with the whole timing of scumreading someone scumreading you thing) and you feel like it's a bit awkward, so you want to have a case. Only, there's nothing real, so you post that waste of a wall.

Is that kind of "hey I need to do something to respond to this" feeling more likely to come from town or scum?

I’m sorry but I think this is kind’ve going over my head. Is the crux of your scumread on them based on you disliking Infinity’s reaction to your scumread on them?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I put some explanation in my last post. I'm not one for quoting peoples post and writing words - I think the motivation behind several stances and posts has been that of scum, and I'd encourage you to reread some of their earlier posting

I coudn't read that post because I got distracted blaring red scum alarms going off in my head

. It's showy and fabricated and it feels so dispassionate about the bob wagon that I don't believe it really TRs bob. I need to talk to gamma because I'm not seeing chara and bob as scum together but chara needs to die

VOTE: chara

-Inf

PEdit: that was at 330

The bolded was probably the only thing I disliked because if you’re scumreading a slot, you should never not read that player’s post but other than that I’m not really sure what you’re referring to but I’ll re-ISO them. Gamma definitely needs to post more because I think I can better read him > Infinity.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

this sort of communication is what i was hoping to see and it's unfortunate that it's happened when i decided to do my best to go to sleep. i'm going to try and do that but i'll say that yes i agree it's hard to work with the stance that you're just bad (though i don't know if you mean work with as in cooperate or work with as in form a read on, either way i think it applies).
there's a lot i want to say, saying you're just pushing at nothing, therefore you have nothing and are scum, is indeed a surface level and easy sort of take. (i don't remember now who said that)
and my perception of Gamma might be biased by remembering what town Gamma looks like and seeing some early similarities here, as well.

what was your original intent in declaring Mirrors and Infinity scum and pushing both?

pedit: to bob, though that's likely clear.

Yes, please answer the bolded because you apparently scumread us based on a question that Infinity asked us, which had nothing whatsoever do with anything we did, so that concerned me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

you apparently scumread us based on a question that Infinity asked us

Posts 96 and 97 seemed like a bad entrance to the game and the comment about being left out pinged. I alluded to those posts before. I don't think we're going to have a productive friendship if you get hung up on that.

Okay fair enough but that’s totally NAI for me but you really don’t need to act antagonistic in nearly every post of yours.

I would like to know how people are reading Red because I really can’t make sense of pretty much anything they’ve posted.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Tit͞us̷'͟s ̸ey̨es ̷ẃer̵e͡ e͠g̶g̴s̨ of̷ ͏un̛s͡t̨abĺe͏ cry͝s͠t͟al҉, ́w͢h͜o̵s͟e͠ ͞n̴a͘m̕e͏ w͢a̶s͏ ̸po̴int̀i͏n͜g͞ ͏o҉ut t͝he ͏ơb͞v̸i͢o͞us̛, ͘a͢nd spo͟u̵ti̕n҉g͡ a ̨h͏um̢mi̢n̵g f͟or͡e̵s̴t̕ ͡ơf͞ ̧o҉v͜e̸rc̛oǹfide͢ņc̨e

@Red, do you have some kind of post restriction or is there some reason why you are making your posts so hard to read?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't believe in NAI tbh

Why not?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think so too. Town generally tries to make themselves readable so I think Red has a better chance of flipping scum than any of the other wagons.

VOTE: Red Flavor

I’m actually shocked that they haven’t received a single vote yet. They aren’t making reads but by obfuscating their posts, people can get the incorrect sense that they’re actually doing something.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Well, they have given reads, I just haven't agreed with them. 75 accuses Titus of pointing out the obvious and being overconfident, 254 accuses bob of having a "guilty conscience" for refusing to explain his reads to raya

I think they're hard to read because they're leaning into the gimmick hard which probably makes it harder to communicate anything but there's a number of people who haven't posted much that's readable. I don't know that they're

worse

than others, per se, and I probably wouldn't vote there right now even though I do suspect them, it's a weak suspicion and I want to see if they become more readable. （=´∇｀=）

So why are Akari and Mara worse for you than Red Flavor? I’m not opposed to their wagon but I don’t see why they’re scummier?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So why are Akari and Mara worse for you than Red Flavor? I’m not opposed to their wagon but I don’t see why they’re scummier?

Their vote on bob was, as far as I can tell, for "being mean" which IMHO is a worse reason than Red. Don't necessarily get the read of Raya as "underwhelming" either, I think she's been fine. But also partly a compromise vote, like I said. We've got less than 2 days so I'll move to someone I slightly suspect who is a viable wagon. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I’m willing to move there depending on they respond to the wagon on them.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Perfume, do I know you? Have we played before under a different account of yours? You don’t need to out it if so but it might possibly affect my read on you.

Can you please answer this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not perfume?

But I was Momrangal in secret alt

Sks reginald

I know. I want Perfume to answer my question because I think I might know who they are and if I’m right, would affect my read on them.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

The bolded was probably the only thing I disliked because if you’re scumreading a slot, you should never not read that player’s post but other than that I’m not really sure what you’re referring to but I’ll re-ISO them. Gamma definitely needs to post more because I think I can better read him > Infinity.

That part was rhetoric, I read the post.

I don't scumread confidence and I'm not sure where you're getting that. Yes different emotional states are AI or NAI for different players but I strongly believe this one doesn't feel right from town.

-Inf

I guess I’m not seeing what you see then? Chara seems similar here to what she did in Cards of Destiny and To Be or Not To Be.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think so too. Town generally tries to make themselves readable so I think Red has a better chance of flipping scum than any of the other wagons.

VOTE: Red Flavor

I’m actually shocked that they haven’t received a single vote yet. They aren’t making reads but by obfuscating their posts, people can get the incorrect sense that they’re actually doing something.

So you're voting a gimmick account for playing to their gimmick?

I still think catboi could be scum. I really dislike the mistyx vote. The reasoning given was that she isn't acting as excited to roll town as she said which means absolutely nothing. The scumreads on red and Akari/Mara aren't good either. Both come across as easier pushes right now due to Red's low posting and gimmick, and Akari/Mara's lack of good explanation on the Bob vote. I'd expect town to question Akari/Mara, not immediately place a vote.

It’s a bad vote according to you if that gimmick account is making their posts unnecessarily hard to read? Why? I don’t think he’s scum but I think A/M is doing enough to be readable, so I agree with you that they’re probably not a great vote. So I understand where you’re coming from on Mystix which makes your criticism of my Red vote perplexing because I have nothing against gimmicks. Are you at all familiar with Dr Worm for example? That was a gimmick account but their solving was extremely evident and eventthough some people might have possibly found their gimmick annoying, it wasn’t at all difficult to understand what they were saying.

Tell me, why is Red town because being a gimmick in itself isn’t AI? A readable gimmick likely is and if you’re making your posts unnecessarily difficult to read, I’m not townreading you for that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hopefully you'll come around eventually. I guess one problem I had with its response to gamma re:bob is the worry about missing "obvscum" bob who refuses to explain his reads. I'm not sure why this was one of the first things that popped into chara's head, or at least one of the strongest emotional pictures I got from that post. If he's really bad at scum, he shouldn't be too difficult to catch later, given that he's active. People tend to weight their most likely scenarios most highly in their head, so I'm not sure why this is such a big concern for chara. It felt more like it was trying to look unsure about bob's alignment.

-Inf

I’ve played with scum!Chara and in that game, she said things that didn’t logically add up, she really wasn’t engaging with the rest of the playerlist and felt kind’ve slippery to me in that game. She didn’t come across as remotely confident or comfortable, so I’m not seeing that here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

Alright, then can you be the Red whisperer and explain to me wtf you think he’s actually saying? All I got from his ISO is one post weirdly shading Titus and another one where the referenced bob who he also apparently didn’t like and I don’t think he explained that either.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

Alright, then can you be the Red whisperer and explain to me wtf you think he’s actually saying? All I got from his ISO is one post weirdly shading Titus and another one where the referenced bob who he also apparently didn’t like and I don’t think he explained that either.

He voted Titus then explained the reason was his overconfidence in the town reads. And then voted Bob for being evasive to my questions.

Okay I see your point but I don’t think that necessarily makes them town either because neither of those posts are something scum couldn’t make either. I also don’t share the view that Titus has been overconfident at all. I make reads like that all the time, I think that’s protown more than anything. Can you show me where bob was being “evasive”? I find his adversarial attitude kind’ve offputting so it’s difficult for me to discern that?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Catboi, uh, what's stopping akara from also just being town that disagrees with you?

-Inf

I don’t know what bob is seeing but I think you guys are town here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I still think catboi could be scum. I really dislike the mistyx vote. The reasoning given was that she isn't acting as excited to roll town as she said which means absolutely nothing. The scumreads on red and Akari/Mara aren't good either. Both come across as easier pushes right now due to Red's low posting and gimmick, and Akari/Mara's lack of good explanation on the Bob vote. I'd expect town to question Akari/Mara, not immediately place a vote.

WE

HAVE

LESS

THAN

TWO

DAYS


If in talking to them I get the impression I am wrong and that they are town I will happily but at this point in time I believe the added pressure is a good thing.

（;≧皿≦）

I get we're pressed for time but I don't think the way you approached that vote was good. If you scumread red and mistyx too why not question them at the same time?

I think that A & M are doing more sorting than both Red and Mystix put together and I’m really not picking up and particular agenday vibes from them, so I don’t think they’re a good flip for today.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

Alright, then can you be the Red whisperer and explain to me wtf you think he’s actually saying? All I got from his ISO is one post weirdly shading Titus and another one where the referenced bob who he also apparently didn’t like and I don’t think he explained that either.

He voted Titus then explained the reason was his overconfidence in the town reads. And then voted Bob for being evasive to my questions.

Okay I see your point but I don’t think that necessarily makes them town either because neither of those posts are something scum couldn’t make either. I also don’t share the view that Titus has been overconfident at all. I make reads like that all the time, I think that’s protown more than anything. Can you show me where bob was being “evasive”? I find his adversarial attitude kind’ve offputting so it’s difficult for me to discern that?

I already kind of expanded on the Titus part in my last post.

This is mainly what I'm referring to when I call Bob evasive but there are other smaller instances:

Yeah I definitely didn't know for sure if that meant you actually scumread them or not. Why do you scumread them?

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

Yeah, I kind’ve see what you mean here. This does somewhat concern me. If you’re going to hardpush a slot, you should be prepared to make a case against them rather then expect others to somehow telepathically understand what you’re seeing. This was precisely the point I was making about Chara that I can understand suspicion but bob is acting like it should be blatantly obvious to us all that IZ is scum and I think bob is confibiased on them based on a few opening posts and isn’t interested in re-evaluating. Chara otoh did re-evaluate her IZ read. I generally dislike emotional manipulation in general regardless of alignment so that may also be influencing me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

What about his two posts of real content was good?

Tit͞us̷'͟s ̸ey̨es ̷ẃer̵e͡ e͠g̶g̴s̨ of̷ ͏un̛s͡t̨abĺe͏ cry͝s͠t͟al҉, ́w͢h͜o̵s͟e͠ ͞n̴a͘m̕e͏ w͢a̶s͏ ̸po̴int̀i͏n͜g͞ ͏o҉ut t͝he ͏ơb͞v̸i͢o͞us̛, ͘a͢nd spo͟u̵ti̕n҉g͡ a ̨h͏um̢mi̢n̵g f͟or͡e̵s̴t̕ ͡ơf͞ ̧o҉v͜e̸rc̛oǹfide͢ņc̨e

This is fine for an early observation/read. Titus did display confidence when stating some people were town with no reasoning behind and while I don't necessarily agree with the read, Red didn't need to start posting AI content and could have slid by with more pure gimmick without raising much suspicion.

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

The first and greatest punishment of the sinner is the conscience of sin. whatever he might do, he should know Raya only asks to solve him. VOTE: wellermanbob

This is also fine, although surface level. My initial impression of Bob was that he was scummy for being evasive but when scum try to be evasive they aren't so blatant. But also in this post appears to be a townlean on me as it states I was trying to solve Bob.

Do you think bob is scum? I think if anyone seems overconfident in this game so far, it’s bob on his IZ scumread.

UNVOTE:

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't believe in NAI tbh

Why not?

Because everything that happens in the game is influenced by the role you were assigned in a game. Maybe a completely off topic conversation like a favorite color, but for things that are "game relevant" in some sense, the passive choices we make in how strongly to convey our opinions, the care we take to ruffle feathers or not, etc, it all influences the game, so it is all AI.

Okay I think you misunderstood me then. I meant that the posts 96 and 97 aren’t posts that I would consider to be alignment indicative for me in any way. I think the other ones are town indicative for me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

jjh would be fine to pressure for post 295

A&M is oooookay

I don't really get what mistyx is doing but probably wouldn't want to eliminate them today. Still want infinity

Spoiler:

Can you post links as in 295 because it makes it easier to find which posts you’re referring to?

Why is A & M better than Red in your opinion?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Let's talk about that after the game. It feels more theoretical of an opinion difference than game relevant, but I will continue to keep those posts in mind as I evaluate your play

Sure, keep ALL of them in mind and I will do the same for you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

jjh, any other reads?

-Inf

That implies those were reads which they weren't; I'm pretty null on both Red and Bob

Cat, Misty, Infinity all town
Leaning town on Titus and Chara
Nobody is particularly standing out as being more likely than average to flip scum at the moment

@bob what do you dislike about this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Didn't know that was possible, can't promise I will, but will make an effort. And it's a few things, like being suspected for some substance versus lack thereof, plus who has moved to one versus the other.

[ post ] 000 [/ post ] minus the spaces.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I will do the same for you.

Every single one of my great posts is capable of standing in isolation!

I’ll take your word on that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It's a bad list of reads plus it has mutually exclusive statements in it?

t5 townreads and yet of the other 7 players nobody is "more likely than average to flip scum"

He said “at the moment” meaning he doesn’t have any scumreads yet.

I’m presuming you disagree on Infinity and Mystix in particular, because you scumread Infinty and nullread Mystix.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

And now when you disagree I'll go back to pointing out that me explaining was futile

No I’m really glad you’re explaining this. At the very least I can see how your thought process works which helps me to read you, so that is definitely useful in itself.

I guess I’m reading #295 as NAI but it’s interesting that he makes it a point of saying the other 7 are indistinguishable.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't think jj's post was bad. Wouldn't scum being trying to push at least somebody? I don't see scum pointing out townreads but failing to scumread anyone.

I think the lack of scumreads part is NAI but that the number of townreads may be town indicative because scum doesn’t like to townread too many people.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

NAI

[youtube] MdsnUibXbl8 [/ youtube]

???

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@bob, you’re saying that jjh having the remaining 7 slots as indistinguishable is possibly scum indicative. I’m saying it’s NAI because it is but I read the 5 townreads part as town indicative, which means I think it’s probably town indicative.

You’re very entertaining if albeit a bit strange.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

going purely from memory:

mistyx - scum
titus - town
vaxkiller - scum
chara - gut town
wellermanbob - town
raya36 - townlean
somke and mirrors - gut town
red - scumlean
perfume - nothing
jjh - vague scumlean
infinity zero - townlean
twins akari and mara - actually felt like her response to my vote was kind of town?

Probably need to read back to flesh some of these out, but decided to just go off the top of my head here to start.

Good list and I agreee, I think the twins are more likely town. I’m geting not great vibes from Mystix. I feel something’s off about her posting. I didn’t like Vax’s vote on the Twins but Idk.

You, Infinity, Chara, Bob, Titus, Raya I think are probably all town. I don’t see why jjh is a scumlean though? He hasn’t done anything to ping me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why were my short sentences a problem but Perfume posting nothing but hard to decipher anime not?

Pedit: You can guess but I won't confirm just in case there's a hidden scum mechanic.

Because I feel like I can read you.

I can't read strange anime crap.

So what's your read on Titus?

kinda tempted to vote this

@Mystix why did you make this post?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why were my short sentences a problem but Perfume posting nothing but hard to decipher anime not?

Pedit: You can guess but I won't confirm just in case there's a hidden scum mechanic.

Because I feel like I can read you.

I can't read strange anime crap.

So what's your read on Titus?

Wanna know my thoughts on you?

Why didn’t you just answer this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i know

i just dont feel like voting rn

but if i did i would be voting there

Why? What pinged you exactly about CB trying to pin down Vax on his Titus’ read?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Red, chara, jj, mistyx are fine

Titus claimed negative utility and I haven't figured out if I trust that yet

catboi rvs is now serious

Why are you suspicious of my claim?

Why is catboi now a serious push?

Why are Red and jj town?

I think CB is fairly obvious town and I’m really disliking the push on him.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

guess i don't really like vax coming in not having read and dropping a vote on lead wagon anyway

titus flip from raya to a+m felt weird but not bad

VOTE: catboi

im feeling nice so sure

Misty's specifically i guess. you don't like Vax but here's a catboi vote. no thoughts on the Twins wagon?

nope

i trust my earlier read more than my current one because it felt more like i was trying to force something out for the sake of it now

You dislike Vax’s vote on a slot you have no thoughts about yet you vote CB.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: catboi

im feeling nice so sure

VOTE: Mystix

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: catboi

im feeling nice so sure

VOTE: Mystix

You also comment on finding Titus’ vote on a slot you claim to have no thoughts on “weird” but you vote CB, not Vax or Titus, who you don’t even bother to comment on.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If Mistyx is scum here, Vax is probably her buddy.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If Mistyx is scum here, Vax is probably her buddy.

165 and 478

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If Mistyx is scum here, Vax is probably her buddy.

Seems like a stretch to me honestly. Vax has been weird but I'm not settled on what it all means.

I’m less sure on him but Mistix scumread CB for pushing Vax on his Titus’ read and now she makes it a point of saying that she dislikes his vote - on a slot she claimed to have 0 thoughts about - but she votes CB.

Why did Mistyx react that strongly to CB pushing Vax on his Titus’s read and why does she make it a point of saying she dislikes Vax’s vote on a slot she has no read on? I just find her positioning around Vax strange. It’s possible he could be town but if she’s scum, it wouldn’t at all shock me if Vax is her buddy based on that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think if misty were not playing up to her own town behavior (and knew it), her best option would to be seem really confident in some areas instead of just saying 'i guess.' If she's scum that read doesn't seem related.

Her tone just seems off for as people have pointed out for someone who’s thrilled to roll town. Why is saying “I guess” town indicative?

What’s bothering me the most is she hasn’t given a single good reason for why she scumreads CB yet she votes him anyway. Why?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

going purely from memory:

mistyx - scum
titus - town
vaxkiller - scum
chara - gut town
wellermanbob - town
raya36 - townlean
somke and mirrors - gut town
red - scumlean
perfume - nothing
jjh - vague scumlean
infinity zero - townlean
twins akari and mara - actually felt like her response to my vote was kind of town?

Probably need to read back to flesh some of these out, but decided to just go off the top of my head here to start.

Your scumreads are mostly just low-profile players. I think a common mistake being made as of late is that scum isn't paying attention or don't want to. Yes my vote is on misty but Red remains ??? and then like Jjh offered some soft reads and has mostly sat back. I don't really feel like scum are struggling or town are just on top of things. This may seem odd to you, but is there any read that you feel you could maybe be wrong about?

While I will probably never now get my alt answer from Perfume, I do think I know who that is and based off of that, I read her posts as being slightly town indicative and having played with scum!you in last year’s TM, I think I was right about that. And she had pretty decent reads in the games I played with her. I won’t out who I think Perfume is but it makes less inclined to want to vote Red now.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think if misty were not playing up to her own town behavior (and knew it), her best option would to be seem really confident in some areas instead of just saying 'i guess.' If she's scum that read doesn't seem related.

Her tone just seems off for as people have pointed out for someone who’s thrilled to roll town. Why is saying “I guess” town indicative?

What’s bothering me the most is she hasn’t given a single good reason for why she scumreads CB yet she votes him anyway. Why?

Don't townread her, think she's a good vote actually. What I was arguing is that 'i guess' does not seem aligned to a mate, which I believe she would take a stronger stance against.

I could be wrong on Vax. While I didn’t care for his Twin vote I didn’t alignment read it. What pinged was that she pushed CB after he tried to pin Vax down on his Titus’ read, so if she’s scum, I think she’s still strangely positioned around him. It’s also possible that she’s sees him as a good miselim and would rather vote a slot she feels is a threat.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That was a long time ago and I think my behavior has slightly changed. Why so quick to accept I'm town? lol

Well that of course possible but it’s based on both that and who I think your predecessor is. This was her town gimmick to make these kinds of posts. That’s why I wanted her to answer if she’d played with me before. For better or worse, I tend to go with my gut. I wouldn’t consider myself to be a particularly paranoid player and I tl your entrance. I liked that you’re challenging CB on her Red read and me on my Vax one’.It goes to a townie mindset. You appear to be genuinely sorting.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hi

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Misty, if it wasn't clear i was asking why you wanted to vote catboi.

the response questioning vax felt kinda like it was just there to be there and wasn't actually solving, plus nothing else in their ISO had stuck out to me by that point

here

He was trying to get Vax to clarify his Titus’ read. That’s how it looked to me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i didn't dislike that vax voted A+M i said i disliked how it was handled

there is a distinct difference

But you didn’t vote Vax, you voted CB.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

kinda dislike jjh's reentrance

goes "oops i haven't been productive at all" and then starts fluffposting exclusively

You’re throwing around a lot of shade without voting any of those slots and I don’t see what’s particularly scum indicative about it?

So now you’ve recently shaded Vax, Titus and now jjh, so why are you voting CB?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: jjh

If we're offering up our pet random wagons before we all have to converge later today then here is mine

I'm against a jj elimination.

Talking about his role is possibly town indicative for him based on meta and I think he’s getting scumread for

bob’s favourite word

NAI things.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm getting vague scumvibes from unwnd

We need a VC

-Inf

Can you elaborate on that? Because he sounded pretty townie to me.

@mod, can we have ah updated VC please?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

serious mode

i don't really like the a+m wagon i thought some of their reasoning pinged townie

Finally a post of yours I don’t dislike. Can you elaborate on this because you’re voting the player who already said this - Catboi.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

chara feels like a slot i'm going to have as light town at eod and then come into tomorrow scumreading

no this is not a read

Back to not liking your posting. :/

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: jjh Please join.

Why?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I have some time and I shall take it

I'm in a place with a good lot of townreads, but too many uncertain reads that I should spend a bit of time parsing
Also I want to lie down for a bit

So basically please don't expect me to suddenly leap into this but my full attention is here

Nothing about this is scummy.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not happy with the jj or twins wagon. I'd be willing to go back to cat but I don't feel as bad as I did before with this slot.

I'm not sure if this is still a viable wagon or not but I'm not liking Vax. I didn't like the Titus vote. Titus has felt town to me and it felt opportunistic as well. The unvoting for simply posting more is bad too. He next places his vote on Infinity, another slot I light townread and another opportunistic vote. Later he voted the twins as the 5th vote which is again opportunistic. He also gave no reasoning for this vote and seemingly hadn't been caught up. When he switches votes again later he says he doesn't even understand the twins wagon but he'd still be willing to go back to it? The it's Mistyx without any reasoning which again already had a wagon forming and opportunistic. He mentions how little time we have then proceeds with fluffy posts. Then joins the jj wagon, who I light townread, without any reasoning given again.

VOTE: Vax

I’m still not liking Mistyx but not opposed.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Part of me feels I owe infinity something for not listening to him in yellowstone and not indulging in my paranoia scum-team, and part of me feels like he has a point.

His stance around titus is weird, and I don't actually think they have any hard stances and through my read through I feel like they are pushing pushes that are a bit safer and don't give him much of a headache to explain if I'm making sense.

Pedit: after my 1v1 with catboi I was sleep

Whether or not I’m agreeing with any of your stances, this reads like a town post to me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Misty as long as you keep trying and I don't scumread what you're actually saying

You don't have to be the lim

Infinity it's time to entertain this

VOTE: Chara

Why do you dislike Chara?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i could go for this

VOTE: Chara

Why do you scumread Chara?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 11

• Twins Akari and Mara
  - 4 ( Chara, Titus, Wellermanbob, Vaxkiller )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 1 ( Mistyx ) -------------. (smoke and mirrors, unwnd, twins
  
  Vaxkiller
  ------------ 3 ( , Catboi, Raya , Vax )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 1 ( Red )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 1 ( )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  unwnd
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 0 ( jjh )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 3/ ( bob, vax, inf/gam )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 1 ( )

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-11 20:01:00)

@mod, why is our vote on CB? I’m extremely sure I never voted him. My current vote is on Mistyx. Please fix this, thanks.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Surprised you don't like the chara wagon bob

Why do you like it?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Surprised you don't like the chara wagon bob

Chara is pretty clearly town lol

+1

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 11

• Twins Akari and Mara
  - 4 ( Chara, Titus, Wellermanbob, Vaxkiller )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 1 ( Mistyx ) -------------. (smoke and mirrors, unwnd, twins
  
  Vaxkiller
  ------------ 3 ( , Catboi, Raya , Vax )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 1 ( Red )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 1 ( )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  unwnd
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 0 ( jjh )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 3/ ( bob, vax, inf/gam )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 1 ( )

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-11 20:01:00)

@mod, why is our vote on CB? I’m extremely sure I never voted him. My current vote is on Mistyx. Please fix this, thanks.

I'm not fixing errors on vcs made/modified by other players

Oh okay, so long as I’m not voting a slot I had no intention of voting, it’s fine.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why?

-Inf

I like her reads and stances and I’m not getting the Chara scumreads.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That was a vc from yesterday

VOTE: vax

But I never voted him. I’ve made two votes so far, first one was on Red and current is on Mistyx.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: vax

Catboi, I don't think we're going to get an elim if we're too concerned about the "way the wagon forms"

Continue selling out to avoid voting A&M

Why are you so sure they’re not LHF town?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gamma really thinks A&M are town, and I townread them too. Yes we are avoiding voting there.

Nancy, can you gather some more thoughts on chara over the night phase?

Fair enough catboi

-Inf

Sure but but there’s nothing about her ISO that has pinged me. In fact, the converse, so I don’t understand what you’re seeing as scum indicative from her. I know you’ve explained but I’m not seeing it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 12

• Vaxkiller
  ------------ 6 ( jjh927, Catboi, Raya36, unwnd, Infinity Zero, Twins Akari and Mara )
  
  Twins Akari and Mara
  - 3 ( Chara, Titus, Wellermanbob )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 1 ( Mistyx )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 1 ( Vaxkiller )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 1 ( Smoke and Mirrors )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 1 ( Red )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( No One )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  unwnd
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 0 ( No One )

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-11 20:01:00)

Vax is at E -1.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 12

• Vaxkiller
  ------------ 6 ( jjh927, Catboi, Raya36, unwnd, Infinity Zero, Twins Akari and Mara )
  
  Twins Akari and Mara
  - 3 ( Chara, Titus, Wellermanbob )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 1 ( Mistyx )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 1 ( Vaxkiller )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 1 ( Smoke and Mirrors )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 1 ( Red )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( No One )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  unwnd
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 0 ( No One )

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-11 20:01:00)

Vax is at E -1.

And Mistyx and Vax have the worst votes.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Sure but but there’s nothing about her ISO that has pinged me. In fact, the converse, so I don’t understand what you’re seeing as scum indicative from her. I know you’ve explained but I’m not seeing it.

I'm gonna try to articulate my chara scumpings when I can, but you have to tell me why exactly you think chara is town. I think you're town and you seem to townread us so coming to an agreement about chara would be helpful.

-Inf

For starters, I’m mindmelding with her on a lot of reads and based on experience playing with her, this looks like her towngame to me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE COUNT 2 . 16

• Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 2 ( Catboi, Twins Akari and Mara )
  
  Twins Akari and Mara
  - 1 ( Titus )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( No One )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 8 ( Mistyx, Chara, Wellermanbob, Smoke and Mirrors, Red, Jjh927, Infinity Zero, Raya36 )

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-17 20:01:00)

Cool, insane people are votung us. Insane meaning specifically people with crazy reads. I’m looking forward to the explanation for this read.

This had better be really good.

Anyway, I was expecting Raya or jjh to be the NK after that flip.

@Mistix, I was looking for the 5 recent scumgames you referenced and couldn’t find them. Would you mind please linking/quoting them for me.

If either CB/Twins are scum than the scumteam has probably no one on it who knows how to intelligently deal with my slot. That or both are town. If either are scum, that means town will likely win because no smart scum in their right mind ever pushes me here. So this is definitely interesting.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

some things change, Nancy hydraslipping every game stays the same. :>

My working theory is that NK was to possibly frame you but that would mean we have a smart scumteam.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You realize him voting you was what made me jump off you, right? I could've just stayed on you and kept the momentum there for deadline.

I was looking for bussers but I think jjh, raya, and the twins are all more or less town based off interactions with vax. Don't love infinity hopping off at the last minute but they got me back on vax in the first place, so, meh. Smoke and Mirrors spent a lot of time trying to tie misty to vax.

i could maybe agree on the Twins, i unfortunately don't remember Raya's interactions with Vax at all. jjh i know spent the whole day voting Vax, though the original vote was RVS, then there was the Slakoth pop in where Vax pushed jjh, then it was deadline. i don't have much confidence in my ability to read jjh but i'm assuming that's what you're referring to.

Infinity hopping off at the very last minute is a really strange thing to do if they're partners i think. there was basically no time to get more votes on me there.

@Twins. who made this vote because if it’s mom, I’m 100% yeeting this slot into the stratosphere but if it’s Akarin then I’m really not sure what to make of it.

Infinity is town because Gamma hard trs me anf he would definitely know this isn’t my scumgame.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE COUNT 2 . 16

• Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 2 ( Catboi, Twins Akari and Mara )
  
  Twins Akari and Mara
  - 1 ( Titus )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( No One )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 8 ( Mistyx, Chara, Wellermanbob, Smoke and Mirrors, Red, Jjh927, Infinity Zero, Raya36 )

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-17 20:01:00)

Cool, insane people are votung us. Insane meaning specifically people with crazy reads. I’m looking forward to the explanation for this read.

OH HELL NO.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors
-Gamma Emerald. I take personal issue with this post, so I’m tagging with my username vs. my flavor tag.

I don’t make this post as scum. I was also down with Vax.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

so Raya pushed Vax probably the most, i feel dumb.

Raya and jjh are locktown from that vote. Infinity is still Infinity. He’d probably deathtunel me if it weren’t for Gamma.

Mom definitely shouldn’t be voting me after that last game since I am playing exactly like Luther and how I did in Necromancer.

So, if she’s the one making this vote it’s concerning.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don’t make this post as scum. I was also down with Vax.

Help me reconcile that post with Cards of Destiny. I recall I said very similar things that game towards you, and you chewed me up and spit me out. I don’t think you’re clueless or hypocritical enough to use an argument that would piss you off if it was used against you, so I think you’re scum.
-Gamma

Now I’m honestly worried about you. I expect Infinity to be bad and read me incorrectly but not you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Smoke and Mirrors spent a lot of time trying to tie misty to vax.

i might have missed it on a skim, i'm playing on my phone, but while i can see Nancy scumreading both of them i'm not sure what you mean by tying misty to Vax specifically.

I would also really like to know why you’re even scumreading me for this? If Misty flipped town than I’d actually get it. So you’re scumreading me because you’re certain I was wrong about that? And if so, why would that even make me scum - and that would actually assume that I’m wrong and why do you see that as wholly improbable? You were suspicious of her yesterday. Is she a townlock for you now and if so why?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Smoke and Mirrors spent a lot of time trying to tie misty to vax.

i might have missed it on a skim, i'm playing on my phone, but while i can see Nancy scumreading both of them i'm not sure what you mean by tying misty to Vax specifically.

I would also really like to know why you’re even scumreading me for this? If Misty flipped town than I’d actually get it. So you’re scumreading me because you’re certain I was wrong about that? And if so, why would that even make me scum - and that would actually assume that I’m wrong and why do you see that as wholly improbable? You were suspicious of her yesterday. Is she a townlock for you now and if so why?

This is obviously meant for CB not Chara obviously.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don’t make this post as scum. I was also down with Vax.

Help me reconcile that post with Cards of Destiny. I recall I said very similar things that game towards you, and you chewed me up and spit me out. I don’t think you’re clueless or hypocritical enough to use an argument that would piss you off if it was used against you, so I think you’re scum.
-Gamma

I don’t recall those posts sorry. Not that I don’t believe you, I just don’t remember them.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not happy with the jj or twins wagon. I'd be willing to go back to cat but I don't feel as bad as I did before with this slot.

I'm not sure if this is still a viable wagon or not but I'm not liking Vax. I didn't like the Titus vote. Titus has felt town to me and it felt opportunistic as well. The unvoting for simply posting more is bad too. He next places his vote on Infinity, another slot I light townread and another opportunistic vote. Later he voted the twins as the 5th vote which is again opportunistic. He also gave no reasoning for this vote and seemingly hadn't been caught up. When he switches votes again later he says he doesn't even understand the twins wagon but he'd still be willing to go back to it? The it's Mistyx without any reasoning which again already had a wagon forming and opportunistic. He mentions how little time we have then proceeds with fluffy posts. Then joins the jj wagon, who I light townread, without any reasoning given again.

VOTE: Vax

I’m still not liking Mistyx but not opposed.

VOTE COUNT 1 . 12

• Vaxkiller
  ------------ 6 ( jjh927, Catboi, Raya36, unwnd, Infinity Zero, Twins Akari and Mara )
  
  Twins Akari and Mara
  - 3 ( Chara, Titus, Wellermanbob )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 1 ( Mistyx )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 1 ( Vaxkiller )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 1 ( Smoke and Mirrors )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 1 ( Red )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( No One )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  unwnd
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 0 ( No One )

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-11 20:01:00)

Vax is at E -1.

And Mistyx and Vax have the worst votes.

Oh look here, I’m shadinf my “buddy”.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

so Raya pushed Vax probably the most, i feel dumb.

If this is genuine then Chara is probably not Vax's partner. I'd assume Vax's partners would be well aware of who pushed him.

Chara, jjh, you and probably bob are slots I don’t think I’m ever voting in this game. I still think Titus is town but why are her reads so bad?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

so Raya pushed Vax probably the most, i feel dumb.

Raya and jjh are locktown from that vote. Infinity is still Infinity. He’d probably deathtunel me if it weren’t for Gamma.

Mom definitely shouldn’t be voting me after that last game since I am playing exactly like Luther and how I did in Necromancer.

So, if she’s the one making this vote it’s concerning.

We're not voting you we're voting catboi. Idk why we're on you in the VC

@mod?

@CB why are you voting me since I recall our reads being very similar? So I don’t get it?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

what reads of hers are bad?

i am wondering why you're so confident i'm town, as wel
pedit: to Nancy.

Because nothing you’ve said has pinged me and I have played with scum!you but not as Nancy.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

some things change, Nancy hydraslipping every game stays the same. :>

My working theory is that NK was to possibly frame you but that would mean we have a smart scumteam.

I am thinking we have a smart scumteam that's repeating Vax's same moves from Booneytunes (the finished large, not the ongoing one).

I don’t understand how you’re scumreading either Raya or jjh after that flip?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE COUNT 2 . 16

• Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 2 ( Catboi, Twins Akari and Mara )
  
  Twins Akari and Mara
  - 1 ( Titus )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( No One )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 8 ( Mistyx, Chara, Wellermanbob, Smoke and Mirrors, Red, Jjh927, Infinity Zero, Raya36 )

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-17 20:01:00)

Cool, insane people are votung us. Insane meaning specifically people with crazy reads. I’m looking forward to the explanation for this read.

OH HELL NO.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors
-Gamma Emerald. I take personal issue with this post, so I’m tagging with my username vs. my flavor tag.

VOTE: S and M

Totally missed that post.

Okay, just lost my townread on you.

Hmmm . . . If Mistyx is scum, 100% flip this.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

what reads of hers are bad?

i am wondering why you're so confident i'm town, as wel
pedit: to Nancy.

Because nothing you’ve said has pinged me and I have played with scum!you but not as Nancy.

*i townread Chara*
*you say my reads are bad*
*you comment that you townread chara*

So come again?

Your read on Chara is good. You’re reads on me, jjh and Raya are bad and you can fucking run me up but if you’re scum with Misty and I still think she could possibly be a Vax buddy, you’re probably following her. You can run me up all you like but it will fuck you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I believe all the scum are in Vax, Infinity, Titus
Red if I am wrong on one or two of those depending on the number of scum

I townread everyone else with reasonable confidence

Probably more like Vax, Misyx, Titus.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

what reads of hers are bad?

i am wondering why you're so confident i'm town, as wel
pedit: to Nancy.

Because nothing you’ve said has pinged me and I have played with scum!you but not as Nancy.

*i townread Chara*
*you say my reads are bad*
*you comment that you townread chara*

So come again?

Your read on Chara is good. You’re reads on me, jjh and Raya are bad and you can fucking run me up but if you’re scum with Misty and I still think she could possibly be a Vax buddy, you’re probably following her. You can run me up all you like but it will fuck you.

If you’re scum here, I promise you will suffer for this. Scum always pays for wrongly pushing me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not happy with the jj or twins wagon. I'd be willing to go back to cat but I don't feel as bad as I did before with this slot.

I'm not sure if this is still a viable wagon or not but I'm not liking Vax. I didn't like the Titus vote. Titus has felt town to me and it felt opportunistic as well. The unvoting for simply posting more is bad too. He next places his vote on Infinity, another slot I light townread and another opportunistic vote. Later he voted the twins as the 5th vote which is again opportunistic. He also gave no reasoning for this vote and seemingly hadn't been caught up. When he switches votes again later he says he doesn't even understand the twins wagon but he'd still be willing to go back to it? The it's Mistyx without any reasoning which again already had a wagon forming and opportunistic. He mentions how little time we have then proceeds with fluffy posts. Then joins the jj wagon, who I light townread, without any reasoning given again.

VOTE: Vax

I’m still not liking Mistyx but not opposed.

VOTE COUNT 1 . 12

• Vaxkiller
  ------------ 6 ( jjh927, Catboi, Raya36, unwnd, Infinity Zero, Twins Akari and Mara )
  
  Twins Akari and Mara
  - 3 ( Chara, Titus, Wellermanbob )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 1 ( Mistyx )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 1 ( Vaxkiller )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 1 ( Smoke and Mirrors )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 1 ( Red )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( No One )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  unwnd
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 0 ( No One )

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-11 20:01:00)

Vax is at E -1.

And Mistyx and Vax have the worst votes.

Oh look here, I’m shadinf my “buddy”.

Someone with a functioning beain please explain to me how me and Vax are buddies.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Titus, i understand why Gamma voted Nancy there, but i'm not sure why you did.

re: jjh, i don't have the Booneytoons context but i did wonder if jjh's vote was left on Vax from an early distancing attempt, and then he failed to get momentum on anyone else because he lacked the time. when he did confirm he thought Vax was scum, it was near deadline.
i don't know how likely it is, it'd mean a misplay by scum jjh if anything, not really a plot. straightforward thinking says they're not scum together.

Seriously? He was first on D & D scumwagon in CoD?

I don’t know why Gamma is scumreading me but but Titus’ vote on me looks really suspicious.

VOTE: Titus

In case I somehow get miselimed, I think it’s probably Vax/Mistyx/Titus.

Misty looks slightly better today but I couldn’t find those 5 recent scumgames she referenced in her first post.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Yeah my vote’s not moving. I gave a window of opportunity and Nancy opted to sprint into the wall right next to it. When I tried to confer with her about my misgivings she ignored me in favor of getting into shut fights with others. Revoking townreads because someone suspects you is not okay, and she’s continuing to make arguments I don’t believe town!her ever makes.
-Protocol

Whatever but if you guys get wagoned after our flip, don’t say I didn’t warn you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Someone with a functioning beain please explain to me how me and Vax are buddies.

This type of toxicity is why I am voting Nancy.

That isn’t a good reason for voting me and you damn well know it.


You want me gone so that you can push Raya and jjh and this will save you an NK down the road. I’m not being toxic, I’m fucking making sense and I actually do think you’re scum here for this vote.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Titus

Good vote. I’m actually glad Titus voted me because at least I don’t have to worry about her trying to pocket me now because it’s 100% not happening.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Chara, Nancy's post was repulsive.

Re: jjh That's possible and I think that might be what happened to Bell in the Booneytunes game.

then why are you voting her for it? that doesn't make her scum. it means she said something you didn't like.

Gamma was upset by the post because Nancy called the players voting her insane. she clarified within that post that she meant "no one should be voting me here, that's crazy", but it definitely could come off as insulting if read another way.

i think it was a simple mistake on Nancy's part. maybe she should be more careful, yes, especially considering the argument Gamma is referencing from Cards.
but i don't... really think it's worth an "out of game vote", whatever that is.

+1

Yes, Chara is right. I meant that the votes on me are insane here because they 100% fucking are and I don’t even understand how Gamma is scumreading for it but I don’t think IZ is scum for it but I am deeply disappointed in Gamma and I hope IZ doesn’t get wagoned if we get flipped because I think they’re town despite Gamma’s bad read. :/

There is no way town!Titus ever votes me here for the reason she’s claiming not after TM last year.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You are attacking people’s intelligence because they are calling you scum Nancy. If someone did that to you you’d be on them like butter on toast. Until you can progress past that and acknowledge your wrongdoing there’s no reconciliation possible here imo.
-Gamma

Yes, it’s not very nice because I’m pissed, so maybe I deserve it but no way in hell does that ever make me scum and you of all people should know that. So, I guess you’ve got me back for CoD now. I hope this ends it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You are attacking people’s intelligence because they are calling you scum Nancy. If someone did that to you you’d be on them like butter on toast. Until you can progress past that and acknowledge your wrongdoing there’s no reconciliation possible here imo.
-Gamma

I don’t want to get townread for this but iyr, I think I did that in RS but I’m saying the SCUMREADs on me are crazy/dumb and I already explained why in those two posts. So yes I still think you guys are town and I’m sad that you would musread me so egregiously. :/

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You are attacking people’s intelligence because they are calling you scum Nancy. If someone did that to you you’d be on them like butter on toast. Until you can progress past that and acknowledge your wrongdoing there’s no reconciliation possible here imo.
-Gamma

Yes, it’s not very nice because I’m pissed, so maybe I deserve it but no way in hell does that ever make me scum and you of all people should know that. So, I guess you’ve got me back for CoD now. I hope this ends it.

However you called me “stupid” multiple timesin that game for wrongly pushing you, so based on your logic, you shouldn’t even be voting me for that so if that’s actually you’re reasoning, I may deserve it but it doesn’t make it any less shitty, And I’m not taking that back because you are basing your vote on my wrong push on you but you were town in that, so your logic for it completely escapes me?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You are attacking people’s intelligence because they are calling you scum Nancy. If someone did that to you you’d be on them like butter on toast. Until you can progress past that and acknowledge your wrongdoing there’s no reconciliation possible here imo.
-Gamma

Yes, it’s not very nice because I’m pissed, so maybe I deserve it but no way in hell does that ever make me scum and you of all people should know that. So, I guess you’ve got me back for CoD now. I hope this ends it.

VOTE: Titus
While I’m not entirely satisfied with this response, it’s enough to show you’re cognizant of my issue, so now it can be talked over post-game.
I feel like your Vax/Titus/Mistyx theory actually holds a good amount of weight rn, with how out of place it was when Mistyx townbinned Titus.
-Protocol

Yeah, I think it was weird how she shades both of them but voted CB. Then she shaded jjh for entirely NAI reasons but Titus’ jump on me is really gross and this kind of sloppiness from her likely means she’s scum. Because town!her would actually come up with valid reasons. She’s votinf me because I will hard veto Raya and jjh so she needs me dead asap and it’s obviously less suspicious if she can get me mislimed.

This is also why I didn’t sr Chara for saying that she’d truthfully claim as scum because she did exactly that in Boon uPick.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You are attacking people’s intelligence because they are calling you scum Nancy. If someone did that to you you’d be on them like butter on toast. Until you can progress past that and acknowledge your wrongdoing there’s no reconciliation possible here imo.
-Gamma

Yes, it’s not very nice because I’m pissed, so maybe I deserve it but no way in hell does that ever make me scum and you of all people should know that. So, I guess you’ve got me back for CoD now. I hope this ends it.

VOTE: Titus
While I’m not entirely satisfied with this response, it’s enough to show you’re cognizant of my issue, so now it can be talked over post-game.
I feel like your Vax/Titus/Mistyx theory actually holds a good amount of weight rn, with how out of place it was when Mistyx townbinned Titus.
-Protocol

Mistxy might be scum, but jjh is guaranteed to be scum.

Based on what? And this post is super suspicious. I think I’m right. I think it is Vax, Misty and you. So I’m okay with being flipped because it would definitely be worth it to finally get a paragon nom.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't get why any sane person would be scumreading me based on circumstances in another game that I wasn't in

To spell it out, it reads like scum clutching at whatever reason they can find to scumread me for voteparking scum for the whole of day 1

Titus isn’t making the votes for the reasons she usually does as town. If she were, based off of VCA, town!her would be obvtowning you, Raya and probably me for what she just said about Misty.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the only townread on me i really like is bob's. it's so earnest and multi-faceted.

Nancy's is in-character but nothing particularly readable, i can't even comment on it's relevance to my scumrange when i don't know her alt, and i'm not asking her to out it.
(also, Nancy, i'd appreciate if you used they/them or it/its for me. <3)

Okay sorry about that. I was concerned that “it/its” sounded disrespectful but if you’re okay with they/them I’ll use that.

Anyway, I sincerely did not mean to insult anyone. I was just legit shocked as to why I was even getting votes after I made it clear I wasn’t tr Vax. I actually thought I might even been the NK but if Titus is scum, it makes sense why I wasn’t.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I really hope Mistyx is town because Nancy's being toxic.

Being scum against her would be a cakewalk.

Now, you’re actually being mean but dw I’m not changing my vote on you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't get why any sane person would be scumreading me based on circumstances in another game that I wasn't in

To spell it out, it reads like scum clutching at whatever reason they can find to scumread me for voteparking scum for the whole of day 1

Titus isn’t making the votes for the reasons she usually does as town. If she were, based off of VCA, town!her would be obvtowning you, Raya and probably me for what she just said about Misty.

Absolutely agree. I think this justification is being made from a place of necessity.

Thing is, there's little to gain from having any more argument because this game is plurality and will end at deadline

In last year’s TM, town!Titus wrongly suspected me for townread the slot that she correctly identified as scum based on VCA, so based off of VCA - something town!Titus swears by, her scumreads are gross and she damn well knew I wasn’t disagreeing with her Chara read when she voted me. She knows as long as I’m alive I’m going to hard veto any wagon on you or Raya, that’s why she’s pushing me so hard.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I really hope Mistyx is town because Nancy's being toxic.

Being scum against her would be a cakewalk.

Now, you’re actually being mean but dw I’m not changing my vote on you.

So you think that's mean but saying I'm brainless is fair play?

I said the scumreads on me don’t make sense and you voting me for that was hella gross. I think Gamma actually misread me but no way in hell you did,

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't get why any sane person would be scumreading me based on circumstances in another game that I wasn't in

To spell it out, it reads like scum clutching at whatever reason they can find to scumread me for voteparking scum for the whole of day 1

Titus isn’t making the votes for the reasons she usually does as town. If she were, based off of VCA, town!her would be obvtowning you, Raya and probably me for what she just said about Misty.

Absolutely agree. I think this justification is being made from a place of necessity.

Thing is, there's little to gain from having any more argument because this game is plurality and will end at deadline

In last year’s TM, town!Titus wrongly suspected me for townread the slot that she correctly identified as scum based on VCA, so based off of VCA - something town!Titus swears by, her scumreads are gross and she damn well knew I wasn’t disagreeing with her Chara read when she voted me. She knows as long as I’m alive I’m going to hard veto any wagon on you or Raya, that’s why she’s pushing me so hard.

My vote's not even on you anymore.

I swear by my VCA that jjh is scum btw

He was first on Vax wagon. It doesn’t matter, your vote on me was off the charts scummy.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I really hope Mistyx is town because Nancy's being toxic.

Being scum against her would be a cakewalk.

Now, you’re actually being mean but dw I’m not changing my vote on you.

So you think that's mean but saying I'm brainless is fair play?

I said the scumreads on me don’t make sense and you voting me for that was hella gross. I think Gamma actually misread me but no way in hell you did,

No. I voted you for toxicity.

No because you know I’d block your push. Now who’s the one insulting who’s intelligence here?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

No. I voted you for toxicity.

Tbf I did the same (though I did misread the toxicity as scum-indicative at first)
But I tried to find a way to work past it whilst you are blathering on about it.
-Protocol

That’s because you’re probably town and I bet the game that Titus likely isn’t.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Tbf pushes on me past day 1 don't generally need to be blocked by any particular individual any more

Not saying you do but Titus needs me dead because of my reads.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If Vax acts the same way, his wagon makeup is the same. That means an early busser who did next to nothing like Bell.

This just doesn’t sound right
This is 100% a position scum can exploit to craft a narrative
And rn Titus seems like the scum doing just that
-Protocol

VCA is all about crafting a narrative.

#facepalm

There’s plenty going into how someone reacts. They can also deliberately react in a certain way to throw people off if they try to do what you’re doing. Your VCA doesn’t have this much lack of nuance. This feels nothing like you in Cinder Blocks.

*shrug*

I hadn't solved most of the game prior to my VCA probably but I don't recall that game.

P.S. I don't move on from toxicity until either one of us flips or I get an apology. I don't put up with that shit. I play to win though.

A) I already did aplogize and B) it’s really scummy of you to continue to push this especially after that nasty post you made.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the only townread on me i really like is bob's. it's so earnest and multi-faceted.

Nancy's is in-character but nothing particularly readable, i can't even comment on it's relevance to my scumrange when i don't know her alt, and i'm not asking her to out it.
(also, Nancy, i'd appreciate if you used they/them or it/its for me. <3)

Okay sorry about that. I was concerned that “it/its” sounded disrespectful but if you’re okay with they/them I’ll use that.

Anyway, I sincerely did not mean to insult anyone. I was just legit shocked as to why I was even getting votes after I made it clear I wasn’t tr Vax. I actually thought I might even been the NK but if Titus is scum, it makes sense why I wasn’t.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the only townread on me i really like is bob's. it's so earnest and multi-faceted.

Nancy's is in-character but nothing particularly readable, i can't even comment on it's relevance to my scumrange when i don't know her alt, and i'm not asking her to out it.
(also, Nancy, i'd appreciate if you used they/them or it/its for me. <3)

Okay sorry about that. I was concerned that “it/its” sounded disrespectful but if you’re okay with they/them I’ll use that.

Anyway, I sincerely did not mean to insult anyone. I was just legit shocked as to why I was even getting votes after I made it clear I wasn’t tr Vax. I actually thought I might even been the NK but if Titus is scum, it makes sense why I wasn’t.

Ok. I forgive you.

I’m still pissed at you especially if you flip scum here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Right now there are multiple people that are posing a threat to Titus collaboratively which is itself the real threat

This is jjh just gloating here because he knows most of the people voting with him are town and he knows I'll refuse to say they're scummy because they aren't. Blanket stay the course posting.

So, you never actually scumread me? Because your jump on me seemed really opportunistic. Why vote me instead of just straight up rebuke me for that? I still think your jump on me looked really scummy. When Moongrass swore at me in that S_S game you rightly rebuked them but you never voted them. So explain that to me how your vote on me wasn’t scum indicative.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Mistyx
Red
Jjh927
Twins Akari and Mara (momrangal + akarin)

That's the only theoretical scumlist

The twins as was Chara, were a possible counterwagon to Vax and just like in that altgame, jjh is probably this game’s Ben.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Space Hydra, magic hydra are town. I can admit my read on bob yesterday was probably wrong, but I still feel weird about Catboi.

Unsure about Chara now too, I feel like it could have easily rode on bob's cred and bank in that "practically masons" read for a while if it were scum

I disagree with Nancy on Raya I think, and I'm not liking titus's chain of attack coming into today

Why are you scumreading Chara and Raya? I don’t understand why CB voted me because Vax!scum does in no way spew Misty town, so I still don’t understand that logic.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I would vote there but I'm pretty sure she's at L-2 now?

UNVOTE:

for now because I don’t want to rush this. I’m extremely upset with her rn and I don’t like voting when I’m not thinking clearly.

@Mistyx, can you please link/quote those 5 recent scumgames of yours because I tried to look for them and couldn’t find them?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm thinking at least 1 scum is in the Twins, Mistyx, Chara, Red

Well, you already know who I think that is.

I’m actually not sure Titus would be mean to me as scum. Her reaction to me - albeit really hurtful - is giving me doubts.

It’s still of course possible and she was really upset with me in House Party so probably not a good reason for tr her.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Its way past maras bed time and it's probably affecting her memory.

Mara just did a quick iso on Raya and they did talk about the evil vax man but it was very super late.

Mara is also confused how they go from being not ok with bullying mara to bullying to the point where mara is forced to leave

Where did she bully you?

Titus - whatever her alignment - has turned my brain into Swiss cheese which totally sucks, just like what happened in CoD.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I really hope Mistyx is town because Nancy's being toxic.

Being scum against her would be a cakewalk.

I honestly don’t know if I can even play anymore because of this. :/

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@CB why are you voting me since I recall our reads being very similar? So I don’t get it?

I'm having trouble finding valid suspects.

Titus, i understand why Gamma voted Nancy there, but i'm not sure why you did.

re: jjh, i don't have the Booneytoons context but i did wonder if jjh's vote was left on Vax from an early distancing attempt, and then he failed to get momentum on anyone else because he lacked the time. when he did confirm he thought Vax was scum, it was near deadline.
i don't know how likely it is, it'd mean a misplay by scum jjh if anything, not really a plot. straightforward thinking says they're not scum together.

Vax seemed legitimately salted that people were voting him and not jjh. Don't think I'd consider a vote on him today or tomorrow.



Hmmmm..... Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑)

VOTE: Titus

What happened to your Mistyx scumread from yesterday?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

going purely from memory:

mistyx - scum
titus - town
vaxkiller - scum
chara - gut town
wellermanbob - town
raya36 - townlean

somke and mirrors - gut town

red - scumlean
perfume - nothing
jjh - vague scumlean
infinity zero - townlean
twins akari and mara - actually felt like her response to my vote was kind of town?

Probably need to read back to flesh some of these out, but decided to just go off the top of my head here to start.

So, at what point did I become a “suspect”?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

chara feels like a slot i'm going to have as light town at eod and then come into tomorrow scumreading

no this is not a read

Misty, if it wasn't clear i was asking why you wanted to vote catboi.

the response questioning vax felt kinda like it was just there to be there and wasn't actually solving, plus nothing else in their ISO had stuck out to me by that point

here

He was trying to get Vax to clarify his Titus’ read. That’s how it looked to me.

i thought it wasn't really a worthwhile question

chara feels like a slot i'm going to have as light town at eod and then come into tomorrow scumreading

no this is not a read

Back to not liking your posting. :/

good for you

VOTE COUNT 1 . 12

• Vaxkiller
  ------------ 6 ( jjh927, Catboi, Raya36, unwnd, Infinity Zero, Twins Akari and Mara )
  
  Twins Akari and Mara
  - 3 ( Chara, Titus, Wellermanbob )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 1 ( Mistyx )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 1 ( Vaxkiller )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 1 ( Smoke and Mirrors )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 1 ( Red )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 0 ( No One )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  unwnd
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 0 ( No One )

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-11 20:01:00)

Vax is at E -1.

And Mistyx and Vax have the worst votes.

and yet no comment on the actual earlier jjh/chara wagons

okay

Mistyx, why did you neve vote vax?

-Inf

that's not really a question i can directly answer

Titus
Catboi
Raya36
Smoke and Mirrors
Red
Jjh927
Infinity Zero
Twins Akari and Mara

removed self, dead players, chara/wellerman

removing titus/catboi/jjh/twins gives us

raya/s&m/red/infinity

i like that list tbh

i think like

infinity > raya > red > s&m is how i'd order my list from earlier from best to worst

but im probably omgusing at least a little

VOTE: Mistyx

If this flips town, you can mislim me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

*shrug*

Same thing just happened in Open 802. Caught scum, people said I was wrong. Said scum won.

It's probably just jjh and the twins.

After I flip town, jjh will go after gamma.
The twins will lurk.

I think I may have possibly voted Titus because she really hurt my feelings and I try not to let that influence my vote.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

*shrug*

Same thing just happened in Open 802. Caught scum, people said I was wrong. Said scum won.

It's probably just jjh and the twins.

After I flip town, jjh will go after gamma.
The twins will lurk.

I think I may have possibly voted Titus because she really hurt my feelings and I try not to let that influence my vote.

IZ is super obvious town btw. So, this makes me question my Titus scumread.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

>

Flips are based on plurality. This means the day will not end when someone reaches a majority. Whoever has the most votes at the end of teh day dies.

Please vote who you think is scum independent of whether you would like to hammer them or not.

We have 3 days and 16 hours and cannot hammer

This is really good to know.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

He’d probably deathtunel me if it weren’t for Gamma.

Please stop this, my personal reasons to TR you are in the thread and you're holding a grudge

-Inf

Sorry and I can assure you I’m not.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I find it interesting no one is talking about red

I still feel like chara is >rand scum but I have nothing to really back this up
Yeah it could've said that it was oblivious to be "cleared" but if it ended up having to claim before bob does then it's kinda screwed

VOTE: mistyx gamma SRs this slot and she's in my PoE. Titus feels town from the last few pages. Old meta on titus says her making sense is a scumtell, I'm not sure whether it still holds up but somehow I doubt it completely flipped.

S&M super obvious town

-Inf

Yeah I agree with you on Titus. When Titus is scum she lacks the conviction we’re seeing here and/or she’ll massively and continuously keep contradicting herself. I still think you’re wrong on Chara. They had zero reason to pocket me earlier considering the fact that I’d been hard tr them from the getgo, yet they still went out of their way to defend me. I don’t see why they’d bother with that if they’re scum here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was looking for the 5 recent scumgames you referenced and couldn’t find them. Would you mind please linking/quoting them for me.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Hydra-Mash (hydra as Kyukon)
https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/v ... 7&t=113277
https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/ ... -over.525/
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... 1%21%21%29 (alted as Rue)

i may have exaggerated slightly when i said 5 but it felt like it

Thanks, I’ll check those out.

One of my issues with you this game is that you tend to have pretty decent reads when you’re town like if you recall Vengeful Ghosts, Marked for Death and that Coalition game where scum!RC won (can’t recall the name?) but your PoE is really off here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

cha.ra \ˈker-ə\ noun culpable of or responsible for a specified wrongdoing . "it was found guilty of owning a weapon of mass destruction" the deliberate killing of a large group of people plural noun: genocide "it was a near mass extinction event" cͮ̓ͣl͑̇ͮ͋̅̒aǐͮͯ̉̽́mͮ̓͌̄ͪ͐ y͛ͧͬ̓̆̅͋ö̈̆ür̄̌ͯ̅̅̊ rͬͫͪ̊͂̆ol̓̽ͧ̇̆̎̑e̒̆̇ͤͦ, ͗C͛̏ͫͪhͤả̎̔ra͑͐͐̚

I’m guessing you copped them last night?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Do you still think I'm wrong about chara given 1079?

-Inf

Well, obviously this has to give me doubt.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Red

Why?

everyone seems to be okay with the slot dying but no one is actively pushing it

makes it >rand scum imo

you sure about that bud? have a look at 1066

dont do this to me

If

everyone

is okay with a slot dying, it probably means more often than not that it’s town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

UNVOTE:

Until Chara returns

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was looking for the 5 recent scumgames you referenced and couldn’t find them. Would you mind please linking/quoting them for me.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Hydra-Mash (hydra as Kyukon)
https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/v ... 7&t=113277
https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/ ... -over.525/
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... 1%21%21%29 (alted as Rue)

i may have exaggerated slightly when i said 5 but it felt like it

Thanks, I’ll check those out.

One of my issues with you this game is that you tend to have pretty decent reads when you’re town like if you recall Vengeful Ghosts, Marked for Death and that Coalition game where scum!RC won (can’t recall the name?) but your PoE is really off here.

...huh

i'll take the compliment i suppose

Oh God, none of these are MS games, which would explain why I couldn’t find them. How do you have us and Infinty in your PoE and it’s looking like Red may be some kind of cop which if so, would definitely explain a lot.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 11

• Twins Akari and Mara
  - 4 ( Chara, Titus, Wellermanbob, Vaxkiller )
  
  Catboi
  --------------- 3 ( Raya36, Infinity Zero, Mistyx )
  
  Vaxkiller
  ------------ 2 ( jjh927, Catboi )
  
  Red
  ------------------ 1 ( Twins Akari and Mara )
  
  Wellermanbob
  --------- 1 ( Red )
  
  Titus
  ---------------- 1 ( unwnd )
  
  Infinity Zero
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Mistyx
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Chara
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Raya36
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  unwnd
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Smoke and Mirrors
  ---- 0 ( No One )
  
  jjh927
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 1 ( Smoke and Mirrors )

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-11 20:01:00)

This looks like the twins were a serious wagon.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Unwnd died. They were a Togetic aligned with the

town

unwnd

Pokemon Battles!

~ Role PM ~

---

4 HP | 0 ATK | +2 DEF | 0 EVA

You are

Togetic

, aligned with the

TOWN

.

Ability

: Serene Grace

• The chances of a move having a secondary effect is doubled.

Moves

• Metronome
  • At Start of Battle
    : Gain up to +5 points worth in stats (except HP) distrubuted randomly for this battle only.
• Wish
  • At Night
    : Visit 1 player and if you do, you and them will heal half of their HP rounded down unless that player is targetted by a killing action. If that player is targetted by a killing action, they will not die.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

---

Confirm your role by responding to this PM with your role and alignment!
GAMETHREAD

If Red has some kind of cop guilty on Chara, that would be extremely ironic considering I came into this day thinking unwnd kill was a Chara frame.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i think like

infinity > raya > red > s&m is how i'd order my list from earlier from best to worst

but im probably omgusing at least a little

Well, this. When are your reads ever this bad as town?

You have us, super obvtown!Infinity, it’s now looking like Red is also town and Raya hardpushed Vax wagon.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Titus
Catboi
Raya36
Smoke and Mirrors
Red
Jjh927
Infinity Zero
Twins Akari and Mara

removed self, dead players, chara/wellerman

removing titus/catboi/jjh/twins gives us

raya/s&m/red/infinity

i like that list tbh

If Red actually has some kind of cop guilty on Chara, I could then see a Vax/Chara/Mistyx team here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Now if Chara is scum I'll admit I'm bad at this game LOl

Chara is apparently very good at scum, so you shouldn’t feel bad but I may have gotten 2/3 right, since I sr Vax and Misty and Titus is obviously town albeit very wrong on her reads this game, since I think jjh and Raya look extremely good from that VCA as do the twins.

I only briefly thought she was because of that ridiculous jump on me but she sounds like wrong town wrt jjh/Raya/twins and now apparently Chara as well like she was in TBoNTB where she kept insisting that scum!Joan was town doc and that VC very clearly pointed to Nips (who was already cleared by A50) being scum in that. We had to massively fight her on that to realize that she had to be wrong on him. She also wrongly dt flaming obvtown!Fonz.

Sometimes she nails it like in last year’s TM and Doubles but this doesn’t look like one of those games.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Titus
Catboi
Raya36
Smoke and Mirrors
Red
Jjh927
Infinity Zero
Twins Akari and Mara

removed self, dead players, chara/wellerman

removing titus/catboi/jjh/twins gives us

raya/s&m/red/infinity

i like that list tbh

If Red actually has some kind of cop guilty on Chara, I could then see a Vax/Chara/Mistyx team here.

so yesterday you call me scum for pushing chara

now i'm scum with chara

ok.jpg

Your PoE has everyone I think is town in it and there isn’t any reason you can’t be scum distancing. Look who you your most recent vote was on ffs.

And I still maintain you had weird associatives with Vax and pushed CB so Vax wouldn’t have to explain his Titus’ read.

Only reason I unvoted you is is it looks like Red has a guilty on Chara and that’s the ONLY reason.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Now if Chara is scum I'll admit I'm bad at this game LOl

Chara is apparently very good at scum, so you shouldn’t feel bad but I may have gotten 2/3 right, since I sr Vax and Misty and Titus is obviously town albeit very wrong on her reads this game, since I think jjh and Raya look extremely good from that VCA as do the twins.

I only briefly thought she was because of that ridiculous jump on me but she sounds like wrong town wrt jjh/Raya/twins and now apparently Chara as well like she was in TBoNTB where she kept insisting that scum!Joan was town doc and that VC very clearly pointed to Nips (who was already cleared by A50) being scum in that. We had to massively fight her on that to realize that she had to be wrong on him. She also wrongly dt flaming obvtown!Fonz.

Sometimes she nails it like in last year’s TM and Doubles but this doesn’t look like one of those games.

okay so like

why can titus be wrong town but not me

Because she’s not scummy and this is her town meta but I don’t think it’s yours. Forgetting about your godawful srs, your tone is completely different from every towngame I’ve ever played with you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

what towngames have you played with me

i can't think of any off the top of my head

I already mentioned a few. There were two I was scum: MfD (you were bleeding obvtown in that) and Undertale, that game where Titus deathtunnelled BEF and got setup by scum!RC, the game on MU where I wrongly sr you plus games that I played yoi under different accounts. And in all of the games you were town, you had pretty decent reads and your tone was completely different.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

what towngames have you played with me

i can't think of any off the top of my head

I already mentioned a few. There were two I was scum: MfD (you were bleeding obvtown in that) and Undertale, that game where Titus deathtunnelled BEF and got setup by scum!RC, the game on MU where I wrongly sr you plus games that I played yoi under different accounts. And in all of the games you were town, you had pretty decent reads and your tone was completely different.

Oh and of course Vengeful Ghosts. The only other game I recall you being remotely agressive was that anime game where you were scum. It was after that, I realized it was possible to correctly read you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

what towngames have you played with me

i can't think of any off the top of my head

I already mentioned a few. There were two I was scum: MfD (you were bleeding obvtown in that) and Undertale, that game where Titus deathtunnelled BEF and got setup by scum!RC, the game on MU where I wrongly sr you plus games that I played yoi under different accounts. And in all of the games you were town, you had pretty decent reads and your tone was completely different.

oh i remember the MU game and undertale

those are pretty old though iirc right

What was the name of that game where you and Clem got wrongly scumread and Creature and Chenn were also scum with RC and I’d say MfD, you had really good reads in both of those games. You play similar to DGB in that your town and scum meta is like night and day.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

also the only anime game i remember being scum in i was a hydra

and it was also old

unless i forgot one

Yeah you were, I can’t remember who with. It was the game where Katsuki lost us the game by innoing scum!LLD and then she janitored him.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

oh that was uh

gameshow?

that was also really old

also the only anime game i remember being scum in i was a hydra

and it was also old

unless i forgot one

Yeah you were, I can’t remember who with. It was the game where Katsuki lost us the game by innoing scum!LLD and then she janitored him.

yee it was me and eragon

Yeah that was it. She still can’t read BEF since she also wrongly sr him in TBoNTB.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Titus
Chara
Wellermanbob
Catboi
Raya36
Smoke and Mirrors
Red
Jjh927
Infinity Zero
Twins Akari and Mara

okay let's say my entire PoE is wrong

Titus
Chara
Wellermanbob
Catboi
Jjh927
Twins Akari and Mara

this is what's left

i still feel very strongly about catboi/twins/jjh town so if we remove those it's titus/bob/chara as options

i guess it could be bob/chara but i'm not sure bob comes into today trying to hardclear chara like that

Titus and bob are town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Titus
Chara
Wellermanbob
Catboi
Raya36
Smoke and Mirrors
Red
Jjh927
Infinity Zero
Twins Akari and Mara

okay let's say my entire PoE is wrong

Titus
Chara
Wellermanbob
Catboi
Jjh927
Twins Akari and Mara

this is what's left

i still feel very strongly about catboi/twins/jjh town so if we remove those it's titus/bob/chara as options

i guess it could be bob/chara but i'm not sure bob comes into today trying to hardclear chara like that

Titus and bob are town.

so like

if you think that, and i stick with my catboi/twins/jjh clears

from your perspective that leaves chara/raya/red/infinity

my PoE was that but with you in place of chara

who am i wrong on

?????

Vax has already been flipped and it looks like Red has a guilty on Chara, so that would only leave one scum left. If it’s really not you, then I have to look at the VC again. Infinity in addition to being super obvtown here is never scum with Chara. I think interactions with Vax spew both jjh and Raya town, so maybe one of your clears?

I still think it’s you but if not, one scum probably bussed.

Vax’s ISO probably left clues.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Do you think raya kills unwnd when she's his strongest TR? I feel like that's not a very wine-susceptible argument since people focus more on the SRs of the dead player and not the TRs

-Inf

oh is that a thing

possible? wouldn't say it's super likely so you do have a point

This is why if it’s not you your PoE is very likely wrong.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Chara, Nancy's post was repulsive.

Re: jjh That's possible and I think that might be what happened to Bell in the Booneytunes game.

Someone with a functioning beain please explain to me how me and Vax are buddies.

This type of toxicity is why I am voting Nancy.

Still really really hate 944 but 942 doesn’t sound like they’re aligned. Plus it would probably make me physically ill if scum!Titus made these posts.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Jjh is completely scum totally misrepping my day 1.

I spent all of day one vetoing bad executions. We got a good one, magine that.

That your taking credit for this is insane

Give examples. As I understand it you mostly sheeped where you felt like it; I didn't see you dismantling any wagons

Chara wagon

you sighed at a vote on me, but that's all i could find in your ISO. did you comment on the wagon on me that apparently happened that i should... probably go read?

I said you were town from go.

Titus again doesn’t sound like a Chara buddy.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

What does your VCA say about the fact it's plurality

Nothing. It doesn't need to.

Plurality definitely does affect VC reads because scum could easily hard distance early in the day and as long as they can make a reasonably logical progression in hopping on a different wagon, they have no fear of an accidental bus, like they would with a majority flip.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If Vax acts the same way, his wagon makeup is the same. That means an early busser who did next to nothing like Bell.

I still think you’re wrong but a link to whatever game you’re referring to would be really helpful.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

*shrug*

Same thing just happened in Open 802. Caught scum, people said I was wrong. Said scum won.

It's probably just jjh and the twins.

After I flip town, jjh will go after gamma.
The twins will lurk.

I seriously doubt scum!Titus would make this post.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't get why any sane person would be scumreading me based on circumstances in another game that I wasn't in

To spell it out, it reads like scum clutching at whatever reason they can find to scumread me for voteparking scum for the whole of day 1

Titus isn’t making the votes for the reasons she usually does as town. If she were, based off of VCA, town!her would be obvtowning you, Raya and probably me for what she just said about Misty.

Absolutely agree. I think this justification is being made from a place of necessity.

Thing is, there's little to gain from having any more argument because this game is plurality and will end at deadline

In last year’s TM, town!Titus wrongly suspected me for townread the slot that she correctly identified as scum based on VCA, so based off of VCA - something town!Titus swears by, her scumreads are gross and she damn well knew I wasn’t disagreeing with her Chara read when she voted me. She knows as long as I’m alive I’m going to hard veto any wagon on you or Raya, that’s why she’s pushing me so hard.

My vote's not even on you anymore.

I swear by my VCA that jjh is scum btw

Will you stop doing VCA if you're wrong or does this vow mean nothing?

jjh is very obviously town but I’ve seen town!Titus be this deathtunelled on town before.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why is jjh obvtown?

-Inf

I liked his VCA post. Idk anymore but I’m not getting scum vibes from him. I thinks the twins are town. I also think both jjh and the twins could have become wagons.

Do you have any idea which game Titus referenced?

It’s hard to follow her trajectory without having any idea wrt the context.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

cha.ra \ˈker-ə\ noun culpable of or responsible for a specified wrongdoing . "it was found guilty of owning a weapon of mass destruction" the deliberate killing of a large group of people plural noun: genocide "it was a near mass extinction event" cͮ̓ͣl͑̇ͮ͋̅̒aǐͮͯ̉̽́mͮ̓͌̄ͪ͐ y͛ͧͬ̓̆̅͋ö̈̆ür̄̌ͯ̅̅̊ rͬͫͪ̊͂̆ol̓̽ͧ̇̆̎̑e̒̆̇ͤͦ, ͗C͛̏ͫͪhͤả̎̔ra͑͐͐̚

[Smoke and Mirrors]

my ability is Intimidate, in a battle i decrease the opponent's attack by 1.
i have one move, Iron Head, it has a 30% chance of skipping my opponent's attack. so basically, it has the flinch effect.

i don't have much time for mafia tonight, but i'll be here tomorrow.

VOTE: Red

How does this relate to 1079?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If Red did have a guilty on Chara wouldn't it make sense for Chara to claim something very different than what Red suggested? Intimidate and Iron Head aren't exactly what I'd call weapons of mass destruction.

Yeah, probably right.

VOTE: Chara

[Smoke and Mirrors]

my ability is Intimidate, in a battle i decrease the opponent's attack by 1.
i have one move, Iron Head, it has a 30% chance of skipping my opponent's attack. so basically, it has the flinch effect.

i don't have much time for mafia tonight, but i'll be here tomorrow.

VOTE: Red

@mod, probably silly question but do scum have fake claims?

When I was scum in Undertale, we got full fakeclaims so this is why I think this could be that, it doesn’t look like anything they just made up.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@mod, probably silly question but do scum have fake claims?

No.

Wow, then that claim is super impressive. Chara’s lack of an emotional reaction to Red’s guilty is interesting. If someone were to ever fake a guilty on me - has only ever happened on MU before - I will definitely make them regret it but I’m obviously not Chara but in that specific MU game, I pretty much gave the scum who tried to push through a fake guilty on me no choice but to completely retract it.

However, as Raya says, I think Red’s guilty is probably legit, plus Chara seems much too chill for a townie with a fake guilty on them.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

We just let it resolve anyway, if Red doesn't retract then either Chara is mafia or he is.

Yeah, unless it was a false guilty then we just have a 50/50 situation

Fake guilties tend to be more vague so scum can walk it back but Red’s was extremely specific, which usually means it’s real.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i would rather red come back and claim the specific nature of their check

inclined to believe them over chara at the current time but not 100%

What didn’t you think was “specific” about 1079? Of course I would also like more context but it’s pretty clear they claimed they A) have a weapon and B) sounds like Red has evidence linking unwnd kill to Chara.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

*shrug*

Same thing just happened in Open 802. Caught scum, people said I was wrong. Said scum won.

It's probably just jjh and the twins.

After I flip town, jjh will go after gamma.
The twins will lurk.

I think I may have possibly voted Titus because she really hurt my feelings and I try not to let that influence my vote.

IZ is super obvious town btw. So, this makes me question my Titus scumread.

Infinity thinks Mistyx is more likely scum than Titus and apparently Chara was guiltied so Titus might be town, but I feel like she handled you very differently to how I did.
-Protocol

Hence the initial scumread and yes, completely agree with this.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

okay treating that as a direct cc

catboi/titus/jjh/twins town - feel more confident on the latter two
{red/chara} has one
last is in {infinity/s&m/raya/bob}

cool

This PoE is why I 100% agree with IZ.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Btw can I just state I love how the creepypasta gimmick makes the guilty look? Like DAMN, Red NAILED his aesthetic.

clearly, gamma is scum trying to pocket red

Spoiler:

agreed tbh

No.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

why raya, and why not titus?

i had titus as town because the way she handled her claim felt pro-town, plus her push on perfume felt internally consistent

i also liked her vote on vax

Tbf I had Titus in my lower TR tier
But I felt like townbinning her was too much atp
Meanwhile Raya’s Vax vote was one Infinity quickly pegged as town and I felt good about her contributions from what I read. So if you liked Titus’ vote you should have liked Raya’s too. Nancy was calling out Titus for playing in a way that suggested she needed to push specific miselims but I think your PoE was too wide and that suggests you’re trying to leave more miselim options open.
-Protocol

i've been burned by players by raya a lot before so i don't think the level of contribution is something clearing

so who are the mislims i'm trying to keep available then

You are seriously arguing that scum!Raya NKs the player who has her as his strongest tr?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

also titus was literally in my lower TRs as well

1118

This is very similar to what you did on D1 - shaded multiple players without much context to have it make much sense.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

if red/chara t/t i dislike everyone who immediately voted chara after they claimed

which is inf/raya/s+m

i think inf looks bad for their reaction to the claim if red is town at all actually

i want to talk about 1147/1148 a bit - raya, s+m, can you explain why that logic doesn't apply to scum!chara as well? and wouldn't it be more likely that town!chara told the truth about their claim if they knew the red check wasn't real?

How tf could Red/Chara be tvt here? Red is claiming a guilty on them? Otoh, saying that about me/Titus would actually make sense. Nothing you’re saying here is making an iota of sense.

You have 2 players - one of whom claimed an actual guilty on the other. In what world are you possibly reading that as tvt? *Head explodes*

[Smoke and Mirrors]

this is nancy right

why do you think infinity is obvtown? i have more experience with gamma than i do infinity and don't think gamma's outside of his scumrange

Because pretty much everything they’ve posted makes so much sense. Then you haven’t played with Gamma nearly enough. I hard tr that slot both by play and meta. I think if you were town here, you’d argue that the scumreads on you are wrong but your posts would still make sense.

Iow, your PoE would actually not be entirely composed of myself and my strongest trs in it.