One Night Stand [Game Over]

[northsidegal]

on reflection, i'm not sure why i decided to subject myself to replacing into one of these about-to-die slots again.

hey kanna, want to do something "fun"? anyone else can participate, too, i suppose

gonna be reading up in a bit

[northsidegal]

hello morning tweet! would you like to do a "fun" thing?

[northsidegal]

i'm not sure if you think that clidd is blatantly lying or what, but yeah, FL said something along those lines. calling it a scumclaim is either wishful thinking or motivated reasoning, though.

[northsidegal]

alright! without going back to reference or fact-check and in as much or as little detail as you want, can you summarize the events of this game as you remember them?

[northsidegal]

Menalque is on vla and some people wanted to eliminate him because everyone else was being ''towny''.

is this in response to me?

[northsidegal]

from a moral perspective, or...?

i have nowhere near the context on this game required to give a read on menalque or the people pushing him, if that's what you're asking. it seems like it bothers you a lot, though. do you strongly townread menalque or is it more about the principle of the VLA and how everyone else is "towny"?

[northsidegal]

remember, no reading back or fact-checking.

[northsidegal]

thanks, both of you

I don’t see how anyone who doesn’t have to coordinate a kill with someone does that

does what exactly?

and any thoughts on those two summaries?

[northsidegal]

uh, no? granted, i lack context, but menalque is, i'm decently sure, both a fairly good scum player and not stupid. i don't imagine that he would just randomly actually scumslip upon entering a 5 person neighborhood.

is there something i'm missing?

[northsidegal]

where is that coming from?

[northsidegal]

Well it’s his first post in the hood.
What would you do if you didn’t have scum pt access but a hood with ur partner and 3 other people, and you had to coordinate a kill on someone?

i have too much respect for basically anyone who isn't a newbie to treat the idea that they replaced in and immediately slipped seriously.

is this your main / one of your main points for menalque being scum?

[northsidegal]

i feel like if i were scum i could literally just talk about who i think was the most likely to die, or who the most likely scum would be to target. i feel like that's not that outlandish a thing to discuss in a hood open at night.

Dam
That’s a real shame north side lady

i mean... i just don't see where this is coming from. it's like i walked into a murder in some alley and you immediately say that the killer is some guy who lives in france and you list off his weight, height and address. it doesn't seem like the evidence is really proportional to how invested you should be in your conclusion.

[northsidegal]

I’m afraid I’ll have to vote u for ur pred’s play
VOTE: nsg
Nothin personal, just business

Pedit: the bat gets it!

[northsidegal]

i feel like if i were scum i could literally just talk about who i think was the most likely to die, or who the most likely scum would be to target. i feel like that's not that outlandish a thing to discuss in a hood open at night.

Have u read his iso?

i took a brief skim through it and it was shorter than i expected, although i wouldn't really put that as significant evidence one way or another – i don't really think of menalque as a "sort by post-count / investment" player.

where is this vote coming from?

[northsidegal]

So its funny u say that but for some reason there was no kill.
Maybe Mena wasn’t able to coordinate with their partner?
Either way from his play in thread I would call him a fool if he was bussing. Wouldn’t you agree?

i mean, i

get

the point you're trying to make. it is

possible

that menalque is scum who needed to coordinate a kill and had to do it in a public neighborhood, and i guess if he couldn't do that it'd explain the lack of a nightkill. that narrative would explain everything, but the prior probability of it is so low that unless you know something that i don't i just have no clue why it would stick out this much to you, or why it seems like you're trying to get me to buy into it so much.

Honestly I look like the fool the most for trusting ur slot
Honestly that’s a real bad look for me, especially if u were scum, right north side lady?

Honestly we would never be having this conversation if Mena didn’t scumread me.

I would probably have just saw the joke and not think twice about it

is this about spite, or something?

[northsidegal]

alisae, i have no clue what you're doing. if this is some reaction test or something i'm just officially lost.

It is part of scum!FL's move to create overreactions when he is accused or when he thinks someone is close to catch him.

He did this to me in our past game and I ended up falling for it.

Here, however, it was probably extreme because, unlike the other game, I didn't back down.

flavor leaf freaks out whenever he's pushed in any game. it really isn't alignment indicative.

[northsidegal]

No I just want to sort u and I think if u were aligned with me, aka town, you would be interested in this and vote with me.

why? what about anything of what you know of my play indicates that as town i would vote him for this with you and as scum i wouldn't?

i still can't tell if you're reaction testing me or just outright pushing nonsense, and my most recent memory for reference is that gif vote game like three years ago now.

So you didn't look much the hood, nth?

i took a quick look at the last page, but apart from that not yet.

At least take a look at his iso for me?

sure, i'll read it.

[northsidegal]

my interpretation of flavor leaf's posts, or just my interpretation of the hood in general?

[northsidegal]

why? what about anything of what you know of my play indicates that as town i would vote him for this with you and as scum i wouldn't?

O I just thought that u were the type that could easily figure these things out. I feel like if u we’re town that that would be enough to at least be worth considering. Oh well honestly I’m just happy ur looking at mena’s iso but I don’t think a town!nsg discredits me right away

i'm not discrediting you. i understand the point you're making, i just don't agree with it. the point

i'm

making is that it, given the low initial probability i'd assign to any random person scumslipping and also not having access to the scum PT and the rest of it, i would need a lot of evidence to believe that it is the case, and you haven't really demonstrated any of that. it's possible that you know something that i don't which would make it more reasonable, but if that's the case i don't see why you would get so worked up about me not agreeing with you when i don't know what you do, and you haven't really given me a lot besides "seems to make sense no?" and "read his ISO"

i think this is something that i'd be incredibly consistent on across any of my town games which is why it kind of seems to me like you're almost just threatening me with your vote, or voting me for not agreeing with you.

[northsidegal]

any thoughts on this, miss tweety?

[northsidegal]

my thoughts are summarized in the mafia pt.

apologies for the lackluster replace-in, ydrasse. i'd like to imagine that if i had a bit more time i could've turned things around, but realistically that might not be the case. thanks for modding.

[northsidegal]

I think FL doomed the slot and you were dead on arrival unfortunately.

i agree moderately with that assessment, but i also think that i could have believably just said that he was fakeclaiming.

[northsidegal]

given my record i am reticent to ever even speak about scum strategy but it did seem to me that even yesterday alisae your play was driven by some kind of spite

frankly i'm astounded that immediately on day three people didn't suspect you given the whole mafia pt thing (although it's possible i missed this, i didn't read the newest day very closely). i was speaking completely truthfully when i said that the amount of evidence available didn't really warrant the theory.

[northsidegal]

given my record i am reticent to ever even speak about scum strategy but it did seem to me that even yesterday alisae your play was driven by some kind of spite

frankly i'm astounded that immediately on day three people didn't suspect you given the whole mafia pt thing (although it's possible i missed this, i didn't read the newest day very closely). i was speaking completely truthfully when i said that the amount of evidence available didn't really warrant the theory.

Mena started it by having a weird read on me.
If he just TR’d me I try to tr him and I don’t need to bus

you escalated a play that you didn't agree with into

essentially

giving yourself and your team's secrets away. i can't really support you given that.

in the absolute worst case scenario—and not to imply that i support this, but i still have to mention it—you could've just tactically replaced out like flavor leaf did. it wasn't

necessary

to drag your team down with you.

[northsidegal]

it's clear that you had a lot of grievances this game. with the setup, the mods, and your teammates. some of which seems to extend even beyond the game, at least based on what you said in 2136.

i think it was wrong of you to take those grievances out on your teammates and subsequently the rest of the game at large.

[northsidegal]

I'm not trying to blame Ydrasse either. Clearly there is precedent already established

I really do wanna know

When was 'conceding' an option that became relevant?

i think that nobody would actually disagree with the concept of scum being able to concede at all, at least upon considering all of the arguments.

i am, however, of the opinion that it should probably be a unanimous decision from the scum team. i'm quite certain that in, say, a normal game, if one scum member wanted to concede and the other didn't, it would be wrong (and potentially even rule-breaking / playing against wincon) for that other member to just publicly claim scum and say that they're conceding regardless.

granted, i don't think that the communication with conceding was necessarily an option for alisae and menalque this game, so the scenarios aren't completely comparable. perhaps the request could've been relayed through the mod.

[northsidegal]

honestly Idunno what u wanted me to do it seems like a lost cause regardless.
If I rep out then someone else has to deal with that mess it doesn’t change the outcome.
Why would u give a doomed slot to another player? I don’t get that and it’s just not something I feel good about.

as a player in a mafia game you have an obligation to play towards your win condition. if you feel as if you can't do that, for whatever reason—illness, you got way busier than you expected, someone you've blacklisted, whatever—a lot of people would agree that you should replace out.

now, even that statement alone is somewhat controversial, and we could argue about tactical replace-outs and what is and isn't an actually valid reason to replace. the difference in replacement culture between mafiascum and other mafia websites is evidence enough of this, but that isn't what i want to talk about. my point is that, regardless of your opinion on replace-outs, almost anyone would certainly agree that it would still be better to replace out than to do what you did and essentially throw the game.

Its always just a lose lose situation for me I think.
Pedit why would anyone want to replace into a slot to find out it’s doomed? How is that fun?

a lot of people enjoy trying to salvage those situations. guiltylion, to name someone off the top of my head.

it's also exactly what

i

did, in this game. i might agree with you that flavor leaf tactically replaced out, but i still would have preferred him to do that than to concede against his teammates' wishes.

[northsidegal]

he difference in replacement culture between mafiascum and other mafia websites is evidence enough of this

@NSG: what is this, out of interest?

for example, mafiauniverse tends to be much stricter about people replacing out of games. of course, their games avg. 24-36 hour day deadlines and so it isn't an entirely apples to apples comparison between the websites. i believe that they also tend to see replacements as more game-breaking and, as far as i'm aware though, a large view there is that mafiascum tends to be somewhat frivolous with our replacements. discussion of the reason behind a replace-out like some people did for flavor leaf is sort of a taboo.

Its an objective view cuz one of the players is a mason, the other was neighbors with scum and also a 1 shot neighbor who gets cleared off of a scum flip, and the last townie is very apparent in her townmeta and it makes 0 sense for them to be scum over me.

i think that discussing exactly how winnable the game actually was is sort of a distraction from what i see as the real issue, which is that of conceding against your partner's wishes and—in a sense—playing out of spite and against your win condition.

[northsidegal]

The game was entirely winnable even if there’s disagreement on the extent of that and given that it was conceding and claiming scum with me was totally unacceptable

I'd say that regardless of how winnable the game actually was or wasn't conceding against your partner's wishes is wrong.

I might say that there are obviously exceptions for a literal mechanical loss or something similar where there is no possibility of scum winning even if every townie suddenly got mind controlled, but that obviously isn't the situation here.

[northsidegal]

which is that of conceding against your partner's wishes and—in a sense—playing out of spite and against your win condition.

Oh so it doesn’t matter if the game was actually unwinnable?

No, it actually doesn't, at least for any non-literal definition of "unwinnable".

[northsidegal]

The points being made here were never towards alisae frankly

It's all environment-based, (Mafia) games shouldn't invite a culture where your best option is to simply not play

No, I don't think so, I actually think that this is pretty squarely on alisae here. We could have some discussion on site meta and pressures on scumteams and such but I think that this situation is pretty divorced from that.

Then Idunno what to tell you tbh.

You need to check your ego and recognize that throwing a tantrum and then throwing the game because your partner is making plays that you don't agree with and you're in a setup that you don't like is wrong. That your own subjective analysis of how winnable the game is doesn't supersede your partner's wishes, no matter how bitter you feel towards him.

[northsidegal]

I dunno I think people are not infallible and even a supposed Paragon can be wrong yknow?

are you referring to me?

[northsidegal]

In poker you shouldn’t be able to fold
In League you shouldn’t be able to concede.

I don’t see how that makes sense Idunno tho.

I don't think anyone here is seriously arguing against the ability to concede at all. That isn't what this is about.

In poker, when you fold you only fold your own hand.
I'd imagine that in league of legends it takes your team agreeing to concede, one person can't just concede for their entire team.

I'm not sure if you're willfully ignoring the differences here or not.

didn't scripts that fully ignore other users get banned? just noticed that in your sig nsg.
does the highlight posts one work on blue background MS? i like the looks of that one

They're banned in mafia games, but you could still use it on discussion or whatever.

It should work on any background, although the colors are tuned for mafblack. I like that one, it's useful I think.

[northsidegal]

I'd imagine that in league of legends it takes your team agreeing to concede, one person can't just concede for their entire team.

People hold people hostage constantly in league, even in the most unwinnable situations and situations where teammates are griefing

You're still skirting around the issue here. Games of mafia aren't games of league of legends. If your teammate thinks you can win and you don't,

you have an obligation to play to your wincondition

or you have an obligation to replace out and let someone else do so. Your ego trip of how upset you are at menalque for voting you and how upset you are at ydrasse for the setup isn't an excuse for gamethrowing.

[northsidegal]

feel free to just release the scum pt, and again thanks for modding.