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[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This should be fun.

[Andresvmb]

I’m hard locking Binatog as Town.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: andresvmb

Because he can't be town all the time.

This shows a basic lack of understanding of how probabilities work. But that’s alright.

[Andresvmb]

If we can’t trust a miller claim then what is there left for us to believe.

Agreed. That’s the towniest Miller claim I have ever seen.

[Andresvmb]

I'm aware of the fallacy but from an emotional standpoint there's still some validity there I think. I'm not saying hes scum butonestly I will look for any excuse to bypass Rvs.

Don’t worry I had a feeling that you were really just trying to push me in some sort of way to get a reaction and see if you can figure out my alignment from that. Unfortunately it just won’t be that easy. I’ll try and make it obvious to you this is still my Town self though.

[Andresvmb]

If we can’t trust a miller claim then what is there left for us to believe.

Agreed. That’s the towniest Miller claim I have ever seen.

I doubt you are sincere, but if you are, could you please explain what makes that miller claim townie?

Yeah I was definitely being a bit over the top about it.

I’m not sure what the site meta is here regarding Millers, but if they are claimed by Town more often than not, then I would judge the slot based on the merits and not so much the claim.

[Andresvmb]

And in case it wasn’t clear, that’s what I intend to do. I won’t be overly focused on the Claim, though from my experience it comes from Town more often than not.

[Andresvmb]

Have you ever fake claimed Miller before

yeah as scum

Could you please provide the game for reference.

We Didn't Playtest This

I just had a laugh seeing that after months of playing everybody lost in that game. Like how does that even happen? Hilarious.

[Andresvmb]

Have you ever fake claimed Miller before

yeah as scum

Could you please provide the game for reference.

We Didn't Playtest This

I just had a laugh seeing that after months of playing everybody lost in that game. Like how does that even happen? Hilarious.

All of Mafia were dead except for a traitor without a nightkill

Town was eliminated, leading to 1:1 where no elim could be achieved, so everyone lost

really the game should have been town victory and the mods were thoroughly bombarded(i can't find the word im looking for, but think of a bunch of people angrily complaining at endgame) for it

I'm really bothered that I can't find the right word... I keep wanting to say beleagured and bombarded and besomethinged

I must be tired today

I should have phrased it better. I saw why the result happened. It’s just hilarious that anyone would make choices or construct a game that could have such an outcome, and that this low probability outcome is actually what ended up taking place. I can’t think of a more upsetting result.

Anyway, enough about that game, though at least it shows that the Miller claim is coming from someone that knows how to weaponize a Role. It just means we’ll have to be extra careful - I don’t think NPOM is wrong about that.

[Andresvmb]

And honestly mom whiteknighting the Miller claim makes me more suspicious

Can you explain this actually? I didn’t think Momrangal was white knighting anything.

[Andresvmb]

If we can’t trust a miller claim then what is there left for us to believe.

Agreed. That’s the towniest Miller claim I have ever seen.

Can you quantify this statement? What other Miller claims have you seen?

Just for your information there is a Wikipedia entry for every role.

record scratch

The mafiascum wiki is not Wikipedia, don’t go looking for role info on Wikipedia

Hes not a miller, but hes town!

Oh wait I was confusing miller with mason.

This looks like town

Btw the probability talk on page 2 was quite refreshing, like a good herbal tea

I clarified in my very next post that I was just being over the top and didn’t fully mean that (mostly just trying to create discussion and be funny). But I guess I have to repeat myself - it’s not the Towniest Miller claim ever, and I will not be relying on it to make a judgment on alignment either way.

[Andresvmb]

I'm aware of the fallacy but from an emotional standpoint there's still some validity there I think. I'm not saying hes scum butonestly I will look for any excuse to bypass Rvs.

Don’t worry I had a feeling that you were really just trying to push me in some sort of way to get a reaction and see if you can figure out my alignment from that. Unfortunately it just won’t be that easy. I’ll try and make it obvious to you this is still my Town self though.

Idk bro your vibe’s kind of off
VOTE: Andres

I agree with this.
It seems like an overly quick conclusion for such an dubious claim to believe it and nit only that but call it: "the towniest miller claim"
Not the strongest case but i like it as my first wagon.
VOTE: Andresvmb

You jumping so quickly on such a crappy argument could be argued to be Scummy. We’ll see.

[Andresvmb]

Las Vegas, NV

have fun that sounds like a fun place to live. I visited there once

This is all you have to say about the game so far plus?

[Andresvmb]

I don't know what rule you're talking about, G Money, but like, also no.

You claim in your first post. Period. Your claim can just be a stand alone post with just the claim and literally nothing else. Your claim can contain whatever you wish to reveal; however, what you do not do as the Goddamn Miller is go "oh, hey, yeahhhh... by the waaaay" when you're actually the Miller.

Like

No.

Last time I was Miller, I claimed in like my fourth post. Didn’t think it was a big deal. Oops.

[Andresvmb]

You jumping so quickly on such a crappy argument could be argued to be Scummy. We’ll see.

Either it’s scummy or it’s not m8.

I’m not your mate. And just because a post is silly or the logic behind your vote is bad it doesn’t mean you’re Scum. It just means I have to look closer.

[Andresvmb]

Miller claim and MM and Andres wagons

After Mini's posts I am undeterred.

What makes you think that Scum would post that they have so much trouble keeping up with the pace of the game multiple times? Just curious.

[Andresvmb]

^that’s for BBmolla.

[Andresvmb]

Oh are you a tryhard Andre.
Maybe ur town then.

I guess? I try to be careful about my assessments. I get stuff wrong all the time of course who doesn’t. But I do like to read every post carefully and consider the view point.

[Andresvmb]

I like both the MM and Andres wagons.

This is the post I meant to quote.

@NPOM, just level with me. Are you Scum here?

[Andresvmb]

Why do you think I am scum?

Well for one you ignored my question about momrangal. And you like my wagon for undisclosed reasons.

Last time we played, I could understand your POV. And you seemed more careful. Here you aren’t really being careful. I mean, you threw out a completely emotional reason to begin questioning my slot (based on literally faulty logic), and your focus seems overly narrow.

Whatever, just an early take. Some folks are already trying to sideline you by calling your approach superficial and what not. There’s probably something there, but you haven’t questioned it much.

[Andresvmb]

Miller claim and MM and Andres wagons

After Mini's posts I am undeterred.

What makes you think that Scum would post that they have so much trouble keeping up with the pace of the game multiple times? Just curious.

They’re not struggling that much considering their fluffposting replying to posts

I’m just trying to think if the behavior is Scum trying to figure out how to enter the game (and thinks that making a comment about the pace will make them look Townie?), or Town that hasn’t found the time to read what’s going on yet and is just putting that out there.

[Andresvmb]

I’m just trying to think if the behavior is Scum trying to figure out how to enter the game (and thinks that making a comment about the pace will make them look Townie?), or Town that hasn’t found the time to read what’s going on yet and is just putting that out there.

Why not wait to see instead of just throwing out what we might all be thinking.

If we’re all thinking it, then stating it doesn’t make a big difference. Except that it does increase the pressure on them to actually contribute.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll come back with some comments about how I’m seeing the game later today - I’ve been a bit distracted by events outside the game. Just wanted to pop in to say that.

[Andresvmb]

@Mod I’m VLA until tonight, just as an FYI.

I thought I would get back to this yesterday but just haven’t had the time. I’ll put some effort like I always do, just need to read carefully is all.

[Andresvmb]

Okay I’m back. Let’s catch up.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: plusJOYED

I like the wagon composition from 652 and had my own early suspicions. Still, I haven’t really caught up so I’m just trying to move away from Gamma Emerald which is a useless vote right now.

[Andresvmb]

I also feel Mini is probably Scum.

[Andresvmb]

andres be honest with me, did you rand scum here?

Are you trying to use my own question against me? Funny.

No, but you might have. NPOM was particularly bad at the beginning. So you replacing there is noteworthy.

[Andresvmb]

BERATED

that's the word

anyway I'll find scum now

If this had happened two days later, I suspect you might have characterized the reaction from the players in that game as an insurrection!

[Andresvmb]

NPOM is just Not Good in general i was cringing at his reads and engagements. Mostly useless

I have to admit, this made me laugh.

Alright you get a pass for now.

[Andresvmb]

Andre do you have any reads you'd like to share right now?

I’m working on it.

I have a strong feeling that chkflip and Nero Cain are Town. I got good vives from Luca. Vax seems like Town to me too. This is all early yadda yadda I’m not particularly good with reads early just take it for what it is.

[Andresvmb]

Not fully caught up but I would blow up Mini for that long post demanding reasons for votes. I thought that was Scummy.

[Andresvmb]

Ugh VOTE: binatog

I also have a feeling Ranny is Scum actually. This vote just seemed off.

[Andresvmb]

I’ve had a game with you and I know you’re inclined to play that way.

But announcing your intentions unprompted that you’re going to “play support” is something else. I feel like binatong is leaning into the clueless thing too hard.

Passive play does make sense at the beginning of a large, but you don’t have to advertise it. Just do it and people will see.

Like this seems overly forced to me for example. Some people are just afraid of making mistakes or don’t feel like they can lead Town in a positive direction. Why the hate? It’s too stubborn in order to justify a vote that’s probably not there.

[Andresvmb]

No-one stands out as being particularly scummy so far. Gazoo and Andres are my biggest TR's from my first skim-through.

Luca! Gazoo’s attack on Binatog seemed Townie to you? Damn. Maybe I’m wrong.

[Andresvmb]

Last time we played, I could understand your POV. And you seemed more careful. Here you aren’t really being careful. I mean, you threw out a completely emotional reason to begin questioning my slot (based on literally faulty logic), and your focus seems overly narrow.

Whatever, just an early take. Some folks are already trying to sideline you by calling your approach superficial and what not. There’s probably something there, but you haven’t questioned it much.

andres putting more effort at the start here to make up for last game or because he's scum?

Plus this is actually disappointing. We mind-melded so well last time!

[Andresvmb]

I don't think Rannygazoo is particurarly townie for what it's worth.
Did Luca explain why he found Gazoo townie for their push there?

Not from my re-read but I’m not done. For what it’s worth, I don’t think you’re wrong either.

[Andresvmb]

There are many too faces in here. I have only played with Mini, Gamma, and Norfolk. So idk the meta.

Meta is rubbish.

Consider it a blessing.

All your answers will be in this game.

A recently finished game where I tried to use meta to sort a player (Noraa) confirms the accuracy of this statement.

[Andresvmb]

So I am thinking that Norwegian/DrippingGoofBall/CheekyTeeky are scum aorn

Anybody want to bet that this is the classic 2 Town, 1 Scum?

[Andresvmb]

I'm going to put the gazoo cat in the town pile.

Answer the question tho

Don’t think you can get out of this by buddying me. Your PR-hunting feels scum-motivated.

VOTE: Goofball

I really can’t get over just how bad 317 is. I’m actually kind of surprised the wagon on Mini went away.

[Andresvmb]

Oh and that vote by Ranny also seemed off. Somebody already expressed it but that blatant role fish by DGB... I just really doubt Scum would do that. I can already see myself being super self conscious about attracting that much attention to myself by doing something so obviously anti-Town.

[Andresvmb]

Nero who are your scum reads atm if you believe we should have more than three? Or did you say that by accident knowing exactly how many scum there are? I doubt it was the last one as your questioning seems like it comes from a town. So share who your scum reads are

I hard claim informed veteran. My flavor is that I've played enough games to get a pretty accurate game size.

I think a 20 player will likely have 4 scum. 21 players are usually 5 so a mod could stretch it but there'll be at least 4.

right now my scumreads are you, maybe gamma, ranny, cheeky, plus and maybe molla. I know thats more than the 4 scum I think there are but thats where I'm at.

Yeah Nero is Town and I heartily endorse this POE.

[Andresvmb]

Binatog is my boy. All who vote him are scum.

This is just to throw us off when one of them flips scum. Like, it’s so obvious that it can’t be real, but I think it is.

I mean... is this for real? Hahaha seriously.

[Andresvmb]

I know that “scummy” does not equal “scum”, but today I am not buying any arguments along the lines of “that’s so scummy, it has to be coming from town”.

However, the DGB subplot has been explored to my satisfaction for now.

I’m not making an argument about it being too Scummy to be Scum. I just said - it’s quite unlikely in my mind that Scum would just blurt that out there. I can’t speak for DGB maybe they would. And yeah I try to be careful with this because you know, it’s maybe projecting how I approach things but c’mon now. It’s so careless, I just don’t think Scum don’t do a double take and just say to themselves actually this is probably a bad post, won’t do it.

[Andresvmb]

You were nightkilled early because your reads were right.

I was fearkilled because Flavor didn’t want to fight me. Based on a recent result, Flavor was right haha I’m a hard fucker to bring down even when I’m horrendously wrong.

[Andresvmb]

But anyway the point being - Flavor has a certain philosophy about how Scum should play. They’re not in this game. So I don’t think it’s particularly relevant.

[Andresvmb]

I don't really like either of these posts:

This is all you have to say about the game so far plus?

I'm a slow starter
my rvs is probably VOTE: titus, they always seem scummy to me for some reason. I even vigged them n1 last game.

Last time we played, I could understand your POV. And you seemed more careful. Here you aren’t really being careful. I mean, you threw out a completely emotional reason to begin questioning my slot (based on literally faulty logic), and your focus seems overly narrow.

Whatever, just an early take. Some folks are already trying to sideline you by calling your approach superficial and what not. There’s probably something there, but you haven’t questioned it much.

andres putting more effort at the start here to make up for last game or because he's scum?

It seems a bit weird to make an RVS vote mid way through page 12, when they'd already posted during the actual RVS without voting anyone. It's like they are conscious that they're not doing anything and feel the need to pad the post out.

The second comment looks as though they just want to say something game related and found the safest possible comment they could make.

It's not a great deal, but it's how I could imagine a newer scum player would enter this game.

VOTE: PlusJoyed

YES!

[Andresvmb]

Faith in Luca restored.

[Andresvmb]

Also, plus was only hating on my slot because I questioned their lack of initiative to start this game. There’s so much to say in my mind and all they have is that it seems like I’m putting too much effort at the beginning of the game and that might be Scum indicative? That’s nonsense, and plus knows better.

[Andresvmb]

Leaning scum on CheekyTeeky. I don’t want to co-sign Titus’s angleshoot but I’ll be keeping an eye out.

I’m not feeling the Plus wagon. I don’t know him per se but in the one game I had with him, he caved as town like corn starch caves to water. It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s scum on it looking for LHF.

Okay if plus flips Scum, blow up Ranny.

[Andresvmb]

I’m going to take a break, be back later. I have some 200 or so more posts to read, right after quiet replaced in.

[Andresvmb]

i have a daycop guilty on mini

I really hate that Mini’s catch up post with all my heart. But I’m starting to think that Mini is just Town that won’t help solve the game. They want to get to motivation but don’t really know how but ask why multiple times at one point for example, and just seem very defensive.

@Mini what do you think of my slot? Maybe this helps me sort you better.

[Andresvmb]

I really can’t get over just how bad 317 is. I’m actually kind of surprised the wagon on Mini went away.

What's wrong with it? It looks like he's engaging imo

There’s a difference between engaging, and looking at votes on your slot and calling them all bad because there are no explicit reasons posted. It just struck me as a player that’s panicking. Now that could just be Town that is outraged at all the suspicion. But I’m just not impressed with stuff like that - it’s too inwardly focused.

[Andresvmb]

I guess that probably sufficient proof that Bypasser Catcher and Not_Mafia are not the same player?

[Andresvmb]

^that’s*

[Andresvmb]

A lot of quiet’s early posts seem non-committal and don’t really say much. I’m rather intrigued by the slot. Like they’re claiming to be somewhat of a newbie so give them some room, but the posts actually seem well thought out. Except for the fact that... there’s barely any fire to them.

I’ll give an example. 598 is analyzing a post by Luca that well, was harshly criticizing Mini for not really contributing anything useful. But quiet is interpreting it as a legitimate argument. It’s a strange take. And this question about whether Scum ever produce filler content? Of course they do! Everybody does. It’s not AI actually unless you start seeing a lot of filler as a means of distraction.

I don’t know, I’ll keep reading.

[Andresvmb]

Koba you’re not even in the game what the hell hahahaha

[Andresvmb]

Did you miss the entire catch up wall within the spoiler or something?

Have you not seen me rail incessantly about exactly that post? What?

[Andresvmb]

This game needs an actual good push to get some good discussion going.

I've actually found this game to be quite refreshing so far, with decent discussion with minimal shit posting. Do you just not like any of the current wagons?

Actually i like this.
Competing wagons between Cheeky/Mini makes the game much easier for me to read in terms of finding scum.

Possibly more, because would scum really bus at this point?

Haha! I have a game for you...

[Andresvmb]

i have a daycop guilty on mini

I really hate that Mini’s catch up post with all my heart. But I’m starting to think that Mini is just Town that won’t help solve the game. They want to get to motivation but don’t really know how but ask why multiple times at one point for example, and just seem very defensive.

@Mini what do you think of my slot? Maybe this helps me sort you better.

This one did run away from me, but like I still don't understand how you can get such an impression when Mini isn't even talking about people on his wagon, save for his vote on norwee

I am almost certain that if you look closely at that post, you’ll realize that Mini is talking about more than just Norwegian’s post on them. Just off the top of my head, I’m pretty sure Mini complains about Vaxkiller’s unexplained vote on them too. And they seem very salty about the wagon that had formed on them. This is just incorrect.

[Andresvmb]

^Norwegian’s vote*

[Andresvmb]

Mom I’ll tell you, I think you seem overly focused on trying to discredit one argument I made about Mini in a way that’s demonstrably false. Not a good look if you ask me.

[Andresvmb]

Mom I’ll tell you,

I didn't realize your mother was in this game.

Oh the potential for jokes here is endless.

[Andresvmb]

U'd be mad too if every game with him he pushes your slot for shit reasons and makes town lose the game and he doesn't even feel bad about it.

I just came out of a game where Not_Mafia sniped the whole Scum Team and played better than everyone. In fact, Not_Mafia’s track record in games I’ve played with them is actually pretty good. You might have just gotten unlucky.

[Andresvmb]

That's a really weird way to get me to back down on my interrogation on your pursuit of mini. I feel like they are being unfairly treated, and they are being railed on.

That entire quote strip talks about where he's at this game, and he's giving opinions on multiple things. You're making it seem like he's doing nothing but whining and complaining when that in itself is patently false

I’m not getting you to back down on anything. Feel free to continue to push me all you want. You’re just obviously wrong. Now, I stopped SR’ing Mini because well, they convinced me with all the statements that they’re Town haha seemed like genuine frustration.

[Andresvmb]

And forgive me but, repeatedly asking for reasons and railing that not providing reasons is Scummy is well, just bad. It was early in the game - who gets so frustrated about there being a complete lack of logical reasoning behind a vote?

[Andresvmb]

Mini is a she btw.

I use them unless I’m absolutely certain and remember when I’m posting, just to be respectful. I don’t know if this was meant for me but for future reference.

[Andresvmb]

I’m changing my mind about Ranny. I think Ranny is being aggressive and has some valid points. In particular, I thought 659 was thoughtful.

[Andresvmb]

Out of everyone with a lot of posts, the player I’m struggling the most reading here is Norwegian actually. I can’t quite pinpoint why.

[Andresvmb]

Out of everyone with a lot of posts, the player I’m struggling the most reading here is Norwegian actually. I can’t quite pinpoint why.

Like 876 just makes me think that Norwegian you have too many TRs that are going to prove to be wrong. And Hayker is just null for me - though I suppose I get why you would be suspicious of a slot that was overly focused on a retracted Miller claim.

[Andresvmb]

Which townreads are wrong?

quiet for starters seems like a difficult slot to have a TR on right now. There’s so much fluff in their posts (which they themselves acknowledge), I don’t even know how you can be sure about that one. I’m not SR’ing Titus right now, but I also don’t have a strong sense there either. Though to be fair, Titus did seem very aggressive about quiet in 549, so if one flips Scum the other one is probably not it.

[Andresvmb]

Which townreads are wrong?

Your read on me is wrong

Is your Norwegian vote serious?

[Andresvmb]

@Binatog13 that post of me hard locking you as Town was meant as a joke. Your reaction just now, though, is probably coming from Town. I won’t be pushing you for today.

My recommendation for you actually is just read one player’s posts. Like pick one player. And read their posts, think about the context they’re being made, and tell us what you think. Just whatever comes to your head.

[Andresvmb]

Which townreads are wrong?

Your read on me is wrong

Is your Norwegian vote serious?

And who is gastric bypass?

[Andresvmb]

Which townreads are wrong?

Your read on me is wrong

Is your Norwegian vote serious?

And who is gastric bypass?

A gastric bypass is where surgical staples are used to create a small pouch at the top of the stomach.

The pouch is then connected to your small intestine, missing out (bypassing) the rest of the stomach.

This means it takes less food to make you feel full and you'll absorb fewer calories from the food you eat.

I don’t know why I ever expect serious responses from you hahaha I need to stop.

[Andresvmb]

sup fuckers im drunk

Okay I really should have known. Like the posts felt very familiar - I just wasn’t sure why. So you just like the avatar huh?

[Andresvmb]

milky milky mommy miltank

I can’t believe this actually happened. I’m so disturbed.

[Andresvmb]

Alright I’m out for the night. I actually have some work to do, which is sad. I’ll check back tomorrow.

[Andresvmb]

@Nero Not_Mafia is making me reconsider my read of you. I don’t agree completely, but I am starting to wonder if I have just given you a pass over some reads I agreed with at the time that now I’m beginning to question. Like for example, your shade of Luca without really saying whether you thought Luca is Scummy or not. And your argument with Molla seems interesting. I know you put Molla in your POE. And you seemed to put them down rather aggressively in 617 because they had a different view of the game and they called your reads bad. Can you tell me what you think of Molla now? What about the rest of the game?

[Andresvmb]

Nero Cain is pretty obvtown

So what the hell is your order above?

[Andresvmb]

I actually looked at Vax too. I don’t think the ISO inspires that much confidence.

[Andresvmb]

Nero Cain is pretty obvtown

So what the hell is your order above?

I used random.org list randomiser to randomise the playerlist then moved myself to the bottom of the list

Alright whatever. Your random list actually made me look a little closer. So not the worst thing.

[Andresvmb]

Is Not_Mafia just trolling Scum? Because yeah their response about Nero was clearly made in jest, but I don’t think the overall list is.

For example, I can understand some of the skepticism thrown Norwegian’s way. Norwegian if I have it right, you’ve jumped on 3 different wagons (Mini, DGB, Cheeky/Not_Mafia) just when they appeared to be gathering momentum. By my count, they all had at least 4 votes at the time you put a vote down. I could argue that seems somewhat bloodthirsty.

[Andresvmb]

I think Not_Mafia is wrong about Luca and Molla actually for what it’s worth. But it’s easy to dismiss Not_Mafia when they’re close to the edge purely for play style reasons and pretend like there’s nothing there.

[Andresvmb]

I should be precise - Cheeky had three votes, and was the second most voted player when you put a vote down, tying with plus. I believe the others did have at least 4.

[Andresvmb]

But outside of that, you had a strange reaction to being asked if you post a lot as Scum also, where you totally dismissed it only to have Mini call out a game where you were the top poster as Scum.

Can you link some scumgames where you posted a lot?

Uhhhh...
Tbh i don't think i have any.

You do ...

Which games are you thinking about?
I, like you. Wasn't very active in the newbie we had.
So where did you gain the info that i can also be active as scum?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84696 you had the most posts in the game

And I could also argue that your reads have been extremely malleable depending on the situation. I mean Ranny was Scum until they weren’t, until they were again. Same with Mini - Scum until they’re not. I could pull up the posts but you get the idea.

I just don’t think it’s a completely ridiculous position.

[Andresvmb]

Is that a hammer?

[Andresvmb]

I guess Not_Mafia’s self-vote isn’t completely obvious - I’m not sure it counts as a legitimate vote.

[Andresvmb]

What on earth is this absolute garbage tier shit posting.

vote:not_mafia

Absolute rubbish. This is considered allowed play?

Also, you’re like completely absent until now?

[Andresvmb]

You do know that Not_Mafia is completely willing to self-hammer right? Are you sure you want the day to end now?

[Andresvmb]

That Hayker vote is Scummy like anything I’ve ever seen.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Hayker

[Andresvmb]

Hayker was reading enough to comment on Not_Mafia’s play, but seems unwilling to share any thoughts on anything else that might be relevant?

[Andresvmb]

I also do want plus to come back and post, which they said they would do today.

[Andresvmb]

Moving my vote onto an immensely distracting spot is scummy?

Well, I’ve seen worse reasoning I guess, but this is still quite disappointing.

You felt a slot being somewhat distracting merited you putting them at E-2? Particularly when you’ve completely failed to really get into the game or provide much in the form of content? Not that I’m one of those that thinks that we need to milk every last second of every day (sometimes you just get into a negative loop), but it sure seemed like those votes came at a perfect time to cut discussion without having too much information out there, and also just when Norwegian was starting to see some pressure. Or am I reading the situation wrong?

[Andresvmb]

Is Not_Mafia just trolling Scum? Because yeah their response about Nero was clearly made in jest, but I don’t think the overall list is.

For example, I can understand some of the skepticism thrown Norwegian’s way. Norwegian if I have it right, you’ve jumped on 3 different wagons (Mini, DGB, Cheeky/Not_Mafia) just when they appeared to be gathering momentum.

I've voted Mini and DGB because i wanted a wagon to spur discussion but they weren't strong scumreads by any means at those points. Cheeky/Not Mafia is one of the first wagons i genuinely believe in.
So to say i "jumped" on 3 different wagons is a bit wrong because it's an really one-dimensional way of thinking.

It took you this long to say this?

[Andresvmb]

Is Not_Mafia just trolling Scum? Because yeah their response about Nero was clearly made in jest, but I don’t think the overall list is.

For example, I can understand some of the skepticism thrown Norwegian’s way. Norwegian if I have it right, you’ve jumped on 3 different wagons (Mini, DGB, Cheeky/Not_Mafia) just when they appeared to be gathering momentum.

I've voted Mini and DGB because i wanted a wagon to spur discussion but they weren't strong scumreads by any means at those points. Cheeky/Not Mafia is one of the first wagons i genuinely believe in.
So to say i "jumped" on 3 different wagons is a bit wrong because it's an really one-dimensional way of thinking.

It took you this long to say this?

It was asked before?

No I just mean you seemed to be around, except when I put my thoughts out there and some votes for Not_Mafia came out and you just appeared to completely avoid the thread until it was obvious Not_Mafia wasn’t going to be executed and you had to respond. That’s what I mean.

[Andresvmb]

Okay, dumb point I’m making. Noted.

[Andresvmb]

Can we at least consolidate onto the PlusJOYED wagon to breathe some life back into this day? It feels atm like we're going through the motions and Not_Mafia's elim is inevitable.

What do you think, Andres?

I SR Norwegian and I’m not sure I want to vote for plus again. I will give plus the opportunity to come back and give us an update on what’s happening with them. I have played a few games with plus and I don’t think they’re useless, so I’m okay waiting for now.

[Andresvmb]

Can we at least consolidate onto the PlusJOYED wagon to breathe some life back into this day? It feels atm like we're going through the motions and Not_Mafia's elim is inevitable.

What do you think, Andres?

I SR Norwegian and I’m not sure I want to vote for plus again. I will give plus the opportunity to come back and give us an update on what’s happening with them. I have played a few games with plus and I don’t think they’re useless, so I’m okay waiting for now.

What are you seeing thats scummy from Norwegian ?
I have a secret tell that i think i've noticed but im keeping it close to my chest until I'm more certain so i dont look like a clown

See 1022, 1026.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t know why I’m trusting Not_Mafia but I don’t think it’s an insane read. The one issue that’s clear to me is that there’s some potential bias - Norwegian did say that Not_Mafia always pushes them in games.

[Andresvmb]

I would be shocked if Not_Mafia was Scum and about to be executed that way to be totally honest. That’s also influencing my view.

[Andresvmb]

I'd be surprised if Not_Mafia wasn't scum, given the history of the slot more than anything. I could see scum distancing themselves from it, or even actively bussing it.

Really? You think Scum would actively bus a rather hard to read slot that everybody expects will be around for a while?

[Andresvmb]

Years ago I was scum with Creature in a 3p scum team, and he is/was a good town player but a poor scum player, and I just bussed him from the start. He was eliminated D1, but we still ended up winning that game quite comfortably.

I take it that Creature and Not_Mafia are not the same player? And even if they were, why would your decision to bus Not_Mafia in what appears to be a smaller game years ago be relevant to the here and now?

[Andresvmb]

I'd be surprised if Not_Mafia wasn't scum, given the history of the slot more than anything. I could see scum distancing themselves from it, or even actively bussing it.

Really? You think Scum would actively bus a rather hard to read slot

that everybody expects will be around for a while?

I'm not really sure what you mean by the bolded, but I could definitely see this slot being bussed due to the history of it. If not bussed then at least abandoned/distanced from.

In practically every game I’ve played with Not_Mafia (and we’re both Town), they never get NK’ed. Like ever. Why? Because they’re very easy to offer up as execution bait, and no one bats an eye.

[Andresvmb]

They’re easy to dismiss as annoying, and not having much of a clue or reading properly. Hell, I could be making a complete fool out of myself defending them right now.

In my gut I just

know

it’s wrong. I just didn’t see a strong incentive for Town to just finish the day right then and there.

[Andresvmb]

I tend to be scumread as town a lot by players because of my playstyle just saying.
Is there anything you think is scummy about me that's not just playstyle choice Andresvmb?

It’s clever that you’re dismissing the concerns I have laid out as “playstyle choices”. I’m not going to engage on this point - you are very obviously oversimplifying my perspective.

I’ll let others chime in.

[Andresvmb]

In post 1054, Luca Blight wrote:
Can we at least consolidate onto the PlusJOYED wagon to breathe some life back into this day? It feels atm like we're going through the motions and Not_Mafia's elim is inevitable.

Fair enough to me. I've got PlusJoyed/Not_Mafia/Hayker all in my PoE and could switch my vote to any if there is desire for it.

Could we do Hawker instead?
They’re here right now, and more scummy to me than plus atm.

VOTE: Hayker

I personally still feel comfortable with NM today, but that’s strictly holding the line the fact that I know I won’t be able to read NM and thought cheeky was scummy.

But I liked my nickname. PrimeFighter. It’s probably an insult that I don’t understand but it was nice anyway.

PrimeFighter is the slot you replaced into. They never posted.

[Andresvmb]

I am not voting N_M for play style, I want this to be very clear.

I actually enjoy his devil-may-care lightweight attitude.

But in this game, he rolled scum and I do not understand the itch that so players have to yeet someone else.

Since when are you so sure about an execution?

Look that last reads list Not_Mafia put out really made me feel bad because there was no reason to shuffle reads that dramatically in such a short period of time. So I don’t know maybe I’m being played. But still, I’m somewhat surprised by your certainty.

[Andresvmb]

NM isn't even explaining his reads.
If he were, perhaps i'd take them somewhat seriously.

I thought you had played with Not_Mafia before.

[Andresvmb]

Which read lists do you think are real?

The first one Not_Mafia put out, they said it was made with a random generator so obviously not that one. But the second one, I took that one seriously. And then just a short while after there was a third reads list and well, I think that just obliterates any reason to think even the second one was serious. I mean Norwegian went from a SR to a strong TR in a matter of some posts. I just couldn’t make sense of it.

[Andresvmb]

So... you agree NM is scum?

I don’t know. That’s the truth.

[Andresvmb]

I’m still somewhat confused by both the speed with which the Not_Mafia slot approached execution there in the middle of the day, and the certainty that some players are expressing that Not_Mafia is Scum. There’s definitely better players than me in this player list so who am I to judge that maybe. But I don’t know. There’s something funny about it.

[Andresvmb]

Is there any reason you'd find the speed of the wagon to be relevant in this instance?

Yeah I tend to believe that Scum executions are not easy to accomplish, especially on D1. So you tend to find a lot of resistance or at least a lot of attempts to move the wagon away. There’s like 2 players that have been arguing that Not_Mafia could be Town, and I’m one of them. There’s too much agreement or indifference. That makes me skeptical.

[Andresvmb]

Bypasser Catcher is the other one, in case it wasn’t obvious.

[Andresvmb]

Then again, the Scum might just be having a laugh at my expense seeing me defend their buddy, so I hate to stick out my neck for slots that are so hard to read. But I would feel bad if I just let it happen and didn’t at least express my point of view.

[Andresvmb]

But like, what makes it so unlikely? Fine if it was me trying to troll the crap out of the game. That would be one thing. This is standard stuff for Not_Mafia as either alignment. The one argument I could buy now is that Not_Mafia’s ever changing positions means they’re actually uninterested in truly contributing to the game. In that sense, yeah, maybe. But all these votes materialized before.

[Andresvmb]

I'm really not interested in defending such a bad slot. But i do find it admirable that you are Andresvmb.

It’s not about defending any slot. It’s about sorting the game. I don’t really care about being right or wrong so much as I’m invested in winning, and that means I need to be able to trust that I’m arguing with a certain set of players in good faith.

[Andresvmb]

Ok, let’s take a look at the opposition besides Andres. Quiet tried to shift onto another wagon or two. I’ve never rolled scum here but that’s essentially what I would no as newbie scum. Not really go to bat and defend a partner, but try to shift the attention elsewhere. Worth looking at if NM flips scum.

As for the others, I think a few lurkers showed up and cast votes elsewhere. I don’t really have time to look into it now.

I would hold off on this kind of argument until Not_Mafia flips Scum. Because otherwise you’re just shading quiet by association. Are you saying you think quiet is Scum and therefore their defense of Not_Mafia makes you think this is the right approach?

[Andresvmb]

Even just a claim from N_M would make me feel a lot better.

I don’t understand you. If you think the slot is so bad and they’re just a troll, why are you holding out any hope of a good faith claim?

[Andresvmb]

I'm an Even Night Weak Neighbouriser

Are you for real right now?

[Andresvmb]

I suppose that’s a verifiable Claim if I ever saw one.

Can you just confirm that’s a hard Claim?

[Andresvmb]

Sigh.

[Andresvmb]

So what are we going to do if the claim is proven false and then NM is like “LOL I TROL U, lemme make up another claim real quick”

You execute them.

[Andresvmb]

That’s exactly why I asked for confirmation if it’s a hard claim. There’s no wiggling out of it.

[Andresvmb]

I thought “even night” was on “neighborizer”, not “weak”

Both modifiers would apply to the Neighborizer. Weak isn’t a role by itself I don’t think.

[Andresvmb]

hood me up, we can spam miltanks and no one can stop us

I would pay money to see this.

[Andresvmb]

They die if they neighborize scum.

Will they?

He's not playing like a PR and neither was CT.

HOW DO YOU KNOW?

[Andresvmb]

You’re frustrating the crap out of me. How do you Not_Mafia was not playing like a PR?! When did you become the Not_Mafia whisperer?

[Andresvmb]

^How do you know*

[Andresvmb]

NM can always claim that whoever he targeted must be town.

Except the player would be Neighborized?

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Rannygazoo

[Andresvmb]

You’re frustrating the crap out of me. How do you Not_Mafia was not playing like a PR?! When did you become the Not_Mafia whisperer?

All those random dot org super-sized rainbow "reads lists?"

That's town to you?

Have I at any point made this argument?

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Rannygazoo

Ok buddy, you were just saying earlier that the Even Night Weak etc claim being false was grounds for execution.

And yet you feel it was appropriate to call out the soft? Why? How are your actions Town positive?

[Andresvmb]

You know what, Hayker might be a better vote. But I don’t understand what you thought you would get out of asking that question.

VOTE: Hayker

[Andresvmb]

So what are we going to do if the claim is proven false and then NM is like “LOL I TROL U, lemme make up another claim real quick”

You execute them.

1) So this was a lie? You want to let NM get away with any and everything?
2) It wasn’t a secret. I saw it. You saw it.

If they softed Tracker, you didn’t think they would come out with a result tomorrow then?

[Andresvmb]

I’m not letting Not_Mafia just get away with whatever. They are essentially signaling strongly that they’re a Tracker. If you don’t believe it, then put your vote back there. I was going to wait until tomorrow to push it. Now, do you want to continue going in circles until we execute Not_Mafia today?

[Andresvmb]

wait, what's up ranny?

What Andres SAID was that we’re going to elim NM if his claim is false without any need for further discussion, but what Andres MEANT was that he expects the claim might be fake and NM is also allowed to claim tracker.

You’re completely twisting my position. The soft came in the same page as the fake claim. This isn’t some claim Not_Mafia is making two days from now. I just figured I would leave it alone and if it proved fake tomorrow, I would have brought it up. You’ve put so much attention on it that it’s worthless to just leave it alone. Good for you.

[Andresvmb]

I

t

's a no

r

m

a

l role, so it's

c

ertainly possible, I

k

ould be an

E

ven Night Weak Neighbourise

r

Well since Ranny just had to highlight it, look at the letters that were italicized in this post.

[Andresvmb]

^that’s for DGB.

[Andresvmb]

0 now that you had to put the spotlight on it.

[Andresvmb]

No, I was just going to let it play out. I don’t always feel the need to eliminate all of the uncertainty for Scum about a PR.

[Andresvmb]

Let both claims play out?

Only one of them can be the truth. Either way, Not_Mafia would have at most 2 Days if not 1 to prove that they’re not full of shit. That’s job well done. So unless you think there’s only 1 Scum in the game, what exactly are you doing?

[Andresvmb]

Except you seem very focused on teasing out the exact claim. Why? It literally would have self-resolved tomorrow if they’re a Tracker, provided they have something to share. And if they were just kidding, and the Weak Neighborizer was the truth, that would have given them at most another day. And then, you execute without even thinking about it. So unless you have no faith that we can find another target, why are you so focused on Not_Mafia right now?

[Andresvmb]

I honestly just assumed Tracker was the actual claim, and if you don’t believe it or don’t think it’s particularly useful, then sure vote Not_Mafia again and we can test that theory. And hey, you might be right. I don’t have the brain capacity to bother with this anymore.

[Andresvmb]

I’m not focused on Not_Mafia. I’m focused on you lying about how you approach the neighborizer claim.

I brought up the soft claim because I didn’t know what to make of it contradicting the other claim, and I wanted other’s opinions on it. And boy did I get it.

Stop saying I lied. My position was always that I would let it resolve itself. If it doesn’t, you execute. Where did I say anything that wasn’t true?

[Andresvmb]

How is this so hard for you to understand?

[Andresvmb]

Except you have no way of knowing as Town if either Claim is true, but you know as Scum that one of them has to be true, if Not_Mafia is Town. So, how exactly would your position change if the Claim was narrowed down? Do you want to explain that?

[Andresvmb]

If Not_Mafia is completely full of it, it would become obvious to a decent enough Town at some point. Either Claim, actually. That’s why I wasn’t worried about narrowing it down.

[Andresvmb]

Except you have no way of knowing as Town if either Claim is true, but you know as Scum that one of them has to be true, if Not_Mafia is Town. So, how exactly would your position change if the Claim was narrowed down? Do you want to explain that?

Andres, maybe you know the other players here better than I do, but I don’t trust town to not let NM get away with switching claims unless I make noise about it.

The problem I have is that your noise is at best completely useless today. And at worst, it’s Scum posturing. You can make all the noise you want right now. It’s worthless.

[Andresvmb]

You still haven’t answered my question - how would your position change if the Claim was narrowed down? Would it?

[Andresvmb]

I don’t have a master plan. I didn’t know what to make of it. That’s why I asked an exploratory question. I wanted to discuss what it meant and how to proceed.

Since we’re discussing NM’s claim in detail, what do you make of the tracker soft?

You are still avoiding giving me a straight answer. Just sit down and think about it.

[Andresvmb]

I think you’ve grossly misjudged the benefit to you from getting this extra information, with the obvious benefit Scum would derive from the extra information. Why? I don’t know. I’m done debating this. Hopefully you understand why chkflip for example is being so cut and dry about it.

[Andresvmb]

I think I’m done discussing it.

VOTE: Binatog

VOTE: bbmolla

@DBG sell me on one of these.

molla's fake miller claim doesn't sit well with me.

As for Binatog, the short iso is the case.

I really still can’t believe for the life of me that after this many pages of content, the biggest reason you want to vote someone is because of a retracted claim that happened eons ago. Really fascinating stuff.

[Andresvmb]

im sad because i lean scum on NM here

Huh
If we wanna vote BC I think that’s a good move

I think you decided to whiteknight NM and once the momentum slowed felt like expressing a lean scum read on NM that you still have no intention of acting on
I might discuss it with others but I don’t think you’re gonna change my mind

That Scum Lean did not sit well with me either, actually. So I’m with you there. Don’t know that I want to break up the wagon on Hayker for it just yet.

[Andresvmb]

This isn't a place where I'm seeing the same vibe from NM. I'm not infallible. I make mistakes. I'm definitely allowed to rectify them later when I see evidence that shows that I was wrong.

Except your argument for shielding Not_Mafia had nothing to do with vibes, and everything to do with game state. What evidence did you see that changed your mind? I might have missed it so I’ll keep reading.

[Andresvmb]

Hayker. PlusJOYED. Cheeky.

I’m on board with all of these, especially hawker.

These are also (I believe) the first, second, and third most lurkey slots. Do you have any reads that aren’t on lurkers? Or was that the basis of your reads?

I've given a number of non-lurker reads already.

I'm also not scumreading those slots for their lurking, but for their content (or lack thereof).

scumreading for early lurking without content is the same thing as scumreading for not having content

Plus you’re so horribly underwhelming it makes me sad.

[Andresvmb]

1362 - @Vax I had quoted in my immediate prior post a vote by Ranny on DGB. I thought it felt off. But I have a Negative Lean on DGB so I’m not looking to push Ranny too much. I did get upset at them before leaving yesterday, but it’s whatever they seemed to really believe that what they were pushing was pro-Town so I’ll let it slide.

[Andresvmb]

Makes sense. I just don't like that his PR claim is good enough to be useful, while at the same time weak enough to be believable as to why they would not to be killed overnight.

I’ve seen Not_Mafia make a Claim that actually made them a dangerous player for Scum to keep around (as Town), and Scum chose not to execute there anyway. Unless Not_Mafia had claimed Cop or something, I don’t know that the Claim itself matters that much for what’s going to happen. That’s my prediction.

[Andresvmb]

I'm waiting for something of substance to happen like an elim

This kind of thing pings me coming from you plus. I have you as a rather cheery Town that likes to go into the weeds of things and try to surmise big picture what’s happening. You’ve paid this game so little attention, I have to think there’s something else going on. I’m not even sure it’s game related.

I don’t know that Scum comes on and posts this sort of nonsense - it’s like too obviously bad.

[Andresvmb]

andres, even excluding me, can you agree with my townblock list? I wanna try approaching this game in a way that puts scum in a really shite situation of being PoE'd.

Gamma, yes. Binatog? I think so? They didn’t take me up on deep diving one player and just giving us their unfiltered thoughts, but the perspective seems Town. Luca? It depends. If Hayker flips Scum, definitely not. They’re softly trying to move the wagon to plus without sticking their neck out too much. I have them as Town but would reconsider with a Hayker Scum flip.

[Andresvmb]

I’m more certain about chkflip, but I have a soft spot for aggressive Scum hunting.

[Andresvmb]

Ranny actually I’m also thinking is Town, to be totally honest. Would be quite surprised if it flipped Scum.

[Andresvmb]

I’m more certain about chkflip, but I have a soft spot for aggressive Scum hunting.

chkflip is town to you?

i mean i would just keep them out of a townblock for the sole reason i think their reads would be bad tbh LOL just keep them at the top of the PoE if u really think so. im not sure on their alignment rn.

From what I’ve read, chkflip seems strong as a player, actually. And I have a similar view of BBMolla, except Molla is happy letting the day expire so I’m not too sure if the slot can be trusted. Would have liked for them to really stake out their views some more.

[Andresvmb]

I'm waiting for something of substance to happen like an elim

This kind of thing pings me coming from you plus. I have you as a rather cheery Town that likes to go into the weeds of things and try to surmise big picture what’s happening. You’ve paid this game so little attention, I have to think there’s something else going on. I’m not even sure it’s game related.

I don’t know that Scum comes on and posts this sort of nonsense - it’s like too obviously bad.

I want to see this plus you’re talking about. The plus we have now is EXACTLY the one from Mini Theme 2172.

I’ll quote you a game - it might have had to do with the fact that they were Vig and widely TR.

[Andresvmb]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=2550

[Andresvmb]

I’m more certain about chkflip, but I have a soft spot for aggressive Scum hunting.

chkflip is town to you?

i mean i would just keep them out of a townblock for the sole reason i think their reads would be bad tbh LOL just keep them at the top of the PoE if u really think so. im not sure on their alignment rn.

From what I’ve read, chkflip seems strong as a player, actually. And I have a similar view of BBMolla, except Molla is happy letting the day expire so I’m not too sure if the slot can be trusted. Would have liked for them to really stake out their views some more.

have u played with chkflip in games where they were strong??

they literally just said they weren't.

No my comment was strictly about their content here. I haven’t looked at any of their other games.

And having a bad win/loss rate is not a good way to judge a player. Sometimes the Town for example just sucks despite your best efforts.

[Andresvmb]

I agree.
But the player admitted it themselves.
ugh like drunk me wants to be like "fuck u andresis scum"{ rn and its like frustrating like i wanna townread u here so bad like i want that rerun of where we both solve the game again?>

You’re going to have to trust that I am putting this much effort into a game because I want to help out a tiny bit and because I’m Town. I really want you to see my Scum game so you have some reference. It’s been bizarre just how much I’ve been forced to play Town here.

[Andresvmb]

At this point I want to be Scum just so that I don’t have that pressure to not be completely terrible with my reads. I get embarrassed reading back in some games and seeing that I was trying and that I was completely off. Though it hasn’t happened on this forum yet! Maybe this game, who knows.

[Andresvmb]

At this point I want to be Scum just so that I don’t have that pressure to not be completely terrible with my reads. I get embarrassed reading back in some games and seeing that I was trying and that I was completely off. Though it hasn’t happened on this forum yet! Maybe this game, who knows.

Maybe this game what?

As in maybe this game my reads will be horrible and I’ll be revealed as a fraud.

[Andresvmb]

andres u were already revealed to be a fraud back in Bending smh my head

I’m pretty sure this is a very inaccurate way of remember that game but okay.

[Andresvmb]

^remembering that*

[Andresvmb]

Are you kidding me? That’s the Towniest thing Not_Mafia has done today.

[Andresvmb]

Are you kidding me? That’s the Towniest thing Not_Mafia has done today.

ARE U KIDDING ME

I love that song. I mean not really but now it’s stuck in my head.

[Andresvmb]

nm is just trolling scum and the claim isn't great either.

You got any other takes Master Cain? You’re starting to sound like a broken record.

[Andresvmb]

right now my scumreads are you, maybe gamma, ranny, cheeky, plus and maybe molla. I know thats more than the 4 scum I think there are but thats where I'm at.

Looking back, this is starting to feel very outdated.

[Andresvmb]

preogresion

I’m pretty sure this is not a word.

[Andresvmb]

I've never seen Nero be like this in a large.

If I’m being completely skeptical, there’s a world where Nero is correct about Not_Mafia and wants to insist on it as Town above anything else. Since Not_Mafia could still self-resolve, I wouldn’t use the one position against them. But I don’t have any meta so you do you.

[Andresvmb]

Just because he noticed something that happened recently doesn't he knows what's going on in the time that has passed while he was gone

How would you know either way? Nero hasn’t said anything right?

[Andresvmb]

I’m actually speechless.

[Andresvmb]

I’m not sure if this is an admission of speaking about the game outside of the game thread or not. No Scum would admit to speaking in a private PT that’s not what this is.

[Andresvmb]

I’m flabbergasted. There was like literally no reason to state that there.

[Andresvmb]

I’m flabbergasted. There was like literally no reason to state that there.

They could have just meant they were talking on Facebook about non-game related stuff for all you know.
Or do you actually think scum would state "we were talking in private communications" as in an actual game related thread?

I literally just wrote it’s not Scum admitting to speaking either outside the game or in the Scum PT. It’s either a rules infraction or some sort of Neighborhood and guessing from the fact that we’re in D1, yeah it’s a random, needless Mason claim.

[Andresvmb]

Gaise hydrae exist

I’m not following.

[Andresvmb]

ok im gonna claim it cause yolo but im mason with 1 person i placed in my townblofck.

Why are YOU claiming anything right now?

[Andresvmb]

Okay I’m not going to pursue this. I would just point out to you that speaking about a game outside of the game thread with another player is against the rules. Other than that I don’t care let’s move on.

[Andresvmb]

Okay let’s treat it like the angleshot that it is.

[Andresvmb]

Nero Cain/momrangal/Not_Mafia/Yakety Sax/quiet

Yakety Sax being Ranny yes? I’m guessing this is your new and latest Scum pool?

[Andresvmb]

And you think Momrangal jumps there to save their Partner in such a way?

[Andresvmb]

Because I would think that’s highly unlikely to be the case.

[Andresvmb]

Is it site meta for people to switch claims all the time for no reason?

You’re confusing Not_Mafia and Bypasser.

[Andresvmb]

Is it site meta for people to switch claims all the time for no reason?

You’re confusing Not_Mafia and Bypasser.

I’m not, but I don’t want to get into it after what happened last time.

Okay fair. I think I caught what you mean? For the particular player? Not uncommon.

[Andresvmb]

right now my scumreads are you, maybe gamma, ranny, cheeky, plus and maybe molla. I know thats more than the 4 scum I think there are but thats where I'm at.

Looking back, this is starting to feel very outdated.

lol, this is a joke. taking a post from p16 and calling it outdated is bad angleshooting.

but theoretically I don't HAV to change my reads just b/c the herd does.

If you stand by them that’s alright you don’t have to say anything else.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t know what to make of Nero here. The splintering of the Hayker wagon to pursue Nero might give us some information, but if Nero is Town then I’m going to guess Hayker is too. Hayker is a weak solve given the lack of content but I thought it was better than plus who I expect to be able to get more out of actually.

@Nero do you want to explain what you see in plis?

[Andresvmb]

^in plus*

[Andresvmb]

I think there’s too much certainty in Luca’s pursuit of Nero, from where I sit. Not wanting to catch up and admitting and all that yeah could be a ploy maybe I’m too soft but it doesn’t strike me as caught Scum.

[Andresvmb]

All I've seen Andres do this game is shit on the prevailing wagon at the time

Sigh.

Yeah maybe I’m changing my mind too much. I’ll just shut up and vote.

[Andresvmb]

All I've seen Andres do this game is shit on the prevailing wagon at the time

Andres wants someone to vote a slot as if merely an afterthought or distraction from sipping wine, or he will be suspicious of the wagon.

So no one can disagree or ask questions about your meta read of a player that most of us don’t have insight on? Is that what you’re implying? Because I don’t recall expressing a Scum Read of Nero and my gut told me Nero was Town from their first set of posts.

[Andresvmb]

If Nero was Town he'd think 'Ok let's see the slip, once I disprove that I'll be able to turn it around'.

As scum he immediately thinks 'f*ck it, the game is up'. Or possibly this was a controlled burn, which is my running theory.

How many games of Mafia have you played again? It’s like you think Town never gets salty about a wagon on them.

[Andresvmb]

Tomorrow Luca's gonna be like "but Nero was so scummy and its his fault that he got voted out!" he's scum lynch him.

Are your reads all mostly based on how players perceive you though?