Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: safebet222

Random Fact about Iceland: Iceland has gone to war 3 times over cod from 1958 to 1976.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: safebet222

Random Fact about Iceland: Iceland has gone to war 3 times over cod from 1958 to 1976.

See... Told you no one would hammer.

UNVOTE: flow trap

You want to continue to risk someone hammering by replacing your vote?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

A couple of questions for everyone...

What's your experience with mafia?
Why do you like to play mafia in general and forum mafia specifically?

This is my 5th forum game, third one in the last few months. I also have played some chat mafia. I think Mafia is fascinating and suspenseful and I like the fact that its mainly people younger than myself that play. I prefer forum mafia over chat mafia because my mind doesn't work so fast and I naturally am careful with what I write.

I like chaos that isn't going to affect my life.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Hard Pass, want to hear from them first

Your vote below has given me nothing to respond to. To elaborate, I don't even know why you are scum reading me and, hence, do not have a basis to say that you do not have a reasonable suspicion on me.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

Starting a day off with a vote for one of my SRs

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Sorry for the late, I had an exam, let me catch up.

No need to apologise. We are not entitled to your presence on this site.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Hard Pass, want to hear from them first

Your vote below has given me nothing to respond to. To elaborate, I don't even know why you are scum reading me and, hence, do not have a basis to say that you do not have a reasonable suspicion on me.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

Starting a day off with a vote for one of my SRs

Ok, I think you're being Pseudo-helpful

Ok. That's what you think I am. So?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I think that is a Scum tell; I belive you have 3 options
1. Refute that it is a scum tell
2. Refute that you were doing it
3. State something town you did

1. I don't have to even refute it because you have not stated why it is a scum tell.
2. I don't have to refute that I was doing it because you have not demonstrated that I was doing it.
3. If I were to state something town I did, it would show that I was intentionally doing it to be town-read and make it completely useless.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Ok, it was a bluff, that was a reaction test; I retract my statements

Noted.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

EZ, would you agree that mafia doesn't want attention?

No not at all. Being the loudest voice in the room can help you control town or at the very least blend in.
Depends on how anxious the player is.

Players who intentionally fly under the radar are going to be noticed and come under fire.

My opinion on the matter is the following. The mafiosoes have motive to do exactly what was stated in the post quoted. However, they also have motive to do the exact opposite.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

So Fred... What do you think of the reactions so far? Do you still think I am deserving of your vote?

You are worthy of my vote. Hence, my vote is on you.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

If I didn't know any better, I'd think that enchant is trying to pocket Salsa. She was quick hammered by Not_Mafia and enchant in Newbie 2042 during D2 and they passed that shit off as a lolhammer that enchant rode into F3 and won for mafia.

not gonna fooling this time!

be fooled* (still don't know if it's the right grammar )

It is. Not going fooling would mean - well, no one says that.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Found this sus to even insinuate it is somewhat serious a vote this early on with such little discussion, unless ofc this is to obtain a reaction and read responses.

Right, as I explained I said it was "partially serious" to avoid seeming scummy / too random.

I probably ask something nonsense, but really want.

Why you think placing votes suspicious? Do you really care how suspicious are you?

Of course explaining votes is good, but doing that and claiming you did that just to don't seem suspicious for that is really something strange.

Town supposed to push suspicious people, you know.

I second that. Not your vote but your explanation is suspicious : "

to avoid seeming scummy"

I third that.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: floo

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: floo

Very scummy vote imo, has been lurking around and posting but still yet to provide any sort of detailed reads of their own as if they are unable to because they know everyone is town. Here voting off the back of other peoples reads without providing any sort of breakdown as to why they actually think they are sus or bringing anything new to the table.

What's your opinion on post 211, which comes prior to post 212?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

As I explained in 215 "voting off the back of other peoples reads without providing any sort of breakdown as to why they actually think they are sus or bringing anything new to the table"

I am voting because someone has given me a reason to think it is suspicious.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Btw, what is the difference between hammer and lolhammer?

hammer intended by most, and this is collective decision.
lolhammer is just because voter wanted to.

Hmm... so the person who knows a word like lolhammer but don't know what SR indicates, seems like a LAMIST (Look At Me, I'm So Town) thing to me.

I know what lolhammer means, because i did it with you.

SR is new term for me. I prefer "Suspicious"

I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt you know, really do.... but I was burned once, really don't want to get burned again.

If you think it is possible to give the benefit of doubt, you should. If someone is suspicious despite being given the benefit of the doubt, isn't that a much more solid suspicion? Of course, if you don't have a more suspicious player, pursue it.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

EBWOP: Of course, if you don't have a player you are more suspicious of, pursue it.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Other than esotericzoomer and me, who gave negative attention to safebet222 for his E-1 vote on you?

That's a loaded question

1. To a normal person, what safe did is blatantly scummy
2. Scum does not want to act scummy
3. Town does not care about acting scummy
3. Therefore mostly town would do this

Yes, I agree... I'm also leaning town on

safebet222

, which I find weird are your suspicions and the explanations for them.
And English is not my native language, sometimes I find it hard to understand what everyone is saying. That's why asking a lot of questions! So can you tell me what do you mean by

(i)

me being passive and fluffy,

(ii)

loaded question?

So, what is your native language? I am a bit of a language enthusiast.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Reminder: I exist.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Reminder: I exist.

What if you lying and not existing actually?
...

My existence demonstrates that I exist.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Mafia would say that.

What is that supposed to refer to?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Mafia would say that.

What is that supposed to refer to?

Something.

What you think about Floo answer?

Incoherent.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

floo, why is your vote still on flow trap?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Other than esotericzoomer and me, who gave negative attention to safebet222 for his E-1 vote on you?

That's a loaded question

1. To a normal person, what safe did is blatantly scummy
2. Scum does not want to act scummy
3. Town does not care about acting scummy
3. Therefore mostly town would do this

I completely disagree with TSTBS as a whole.
Completely ineffective at figuring out a players alignment.

I agree with this.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

What was the point of this post?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

What was the point of this post?

Are you asking me?

Yes.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Frederick, what is your current thinking on safebet?

I'm skeptical of your voteswitch to floo. You seemed to have a reason you placed some belief in on safebet. For floo, it looks like your vote was prompted by discussion around the fear of appearing scummy comment. It's really rare to see someone admit to insecurity in perception early in RVS-this is exactly what scum is trying to avoid displaying-and I read it the complete opposite way as +town. I can get this from a beginner but as someone who's been around the block a few times, does your experience not match mine?

I am actually null on safebet222.

I don't quite get what you are trying to say in the second paragraph.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Btw,

Fredrick A Campbell

, what are your reads about everyone at the moment?

I don't like to publicise this. You could ask me about specific players, and I will tell you.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I am actually null on safebet222.

Okay, what shifted?

For the second paragraph I'm saying that from my experience scum generally doesn't openly admit to being insecure about how they're perceived, which was the issue you quoted before voting floo.

I had been null on safebet222 since the start of the game.

As for the second paragraph, what are you trying to say?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

No need to simplify. Just tell me the point you are trying to make.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Actually I'll try directly quoting

Found this sus to even insinuate it is somewhat serious a vote this early on with such little discussion, unless ofc this is to obtain a reaction and read responses.

Right, as I explained I said it was "partially serious" to avoid seeming scummy / too random.

I probably ask something nonsense, but really want.

Why you think placing votes suspicious? Do you really care how suspicious are you?

Of course explaining votes is good, but doing that and claiming you did that just to don't seem suspicious for that is really something strange.

Town supposed to push suspicious people, you know.

I second that. Not your vote but your explanation is suspicious : "

to avoid seeming scummy"

I third that.

I am saying I directly disagree with this, particularly Salsabil's reasoning here. I think this is a natural thought for relative beginners. I am wondering why someone who has been around the block more often agrees with this.

At this level I don't see any scum openly admit to being insecure about their appearance with 0 prompting, because scum

fear being perceived as selfconcious

Why I agreed with that is because I think that is a possibility and the best lead I have had since then.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I feel like you're missing the point of my questioning on safebet, I'm asking about 191's stance on safebet and how that has changed over time. You seem to be saying you were null at the time of 191, is that accurate?

That is accurate. I was null at the time of 191.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I feel like you're missing the point of my questioning on safebet, I'm asking about 191's stance on safebet and how that has changed over time. You seem to be saying you were null at the time of 191, is that accurate?

That is accurate. I was null at the time of 191.

and prior to that as well.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Again it puzzles me as to why you're diffusing questions and answering for him. I'm well aware of other motives. It is my job, and yours, to trace his thought process and figure out how legitimate those are. 499 is asking to elaborate on why he voted if my reading-that he didn't actually suspect safebet-is correct.

All you have to do is wait and see if his answers line up to you. You're shooting us both in the foot right now, arguably all 3 of us.

My vote on safebet222 was a random vote.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I have actually failed to finish reading the thread. Will someone explain their case against me?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I have actually failed to finish reading the thread. Will someone explain their case against me?

They think you are my mafia partner.

Why do they think so? (Someone other than Enchant may answer)

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I will do that later. Busy.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Still reading post 444.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I have actually failed to finish reading the thread. Will someone explain their case against me?

Spoiler: My Case

Okay, so I just go through

Fredrick A Campbell

's iso, these are the things I found:
Post= 166, 169 and 173 are good, feels like a town post
Post= 212 seems opportunistic vote on

Floo

, not getting town vibe
Post= 365 by keeping

esotericzoomer

's post 444, it actually makes sense, like you tried to protect/defend your scum partner (in this case

Enchant

) there
Post= 494 here I asked your reads which is a serious question and game-related question which you avoided. But you interacted with me in those posts which were not game-related, from which I feel you're somewhat lurking at this point or want to be the second mysterious player here, not a town thing for me.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

About post 212, can't argue with that, as I don't know the reason you think it is opportunistic.

About post 365, also can't argue with that, as I don't know the reason you think I am trying to protect or defend Enchant. Also, I don't know why you even think Enchant is a mafia member.

About post 494, I don't like to publicise my reads, as that only adds an extra variable to consider when reading players.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Still reading post 444.

good luck with that

If esotericzoomer goes over every player, I am not even close as I am only at flow trap.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: Prism

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Prism, I am available for at least the next 20 minutes. Let's talk.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Dear Prism,

I would like you to make your argument known to me.

Sincerely, Fredrick A Campbell

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Going to have to be satisfied with phone posting. I don't know if you saw the post where I said I didn't have time tonight, but if that was intentional I'll rise to the challenge regardless.

Didn't read safebet/the E-1 stuff before voting?

Oh, I didn't see that. Sorry for the interruption. We could talk later.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: Prism

Your vote below has given me nothing to respond to. To elaborate, I don't even know why you are scum reading me and, hence, do not have a basis to say that you do not have a reasonable suspicion on me.

Going to have to do more than naked vote if you want this to gain traction.

Presumptive of you to think I want it to gain traction in the first place.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Nah, let's do it now. If you don't want it to gain traction, who do you actually want to see flipped?

If the vote was for my attention you had me eagerly awaiting dialogue regardless. Puzzling.

I am perfectly fine with literally any player. And yes, that includes myself.

The vote on you was another random vote. Attempting to rationalise my every move is a futile endeavor.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Anything else you'd like to dialogue about?

I felt I had made my stance about not liking the safebet vote/floo tag-a-long clear but maybe your perception differs.

That part of your perception is very clear to me. Any specifics on why you didn't like it?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I meant to say that part of your stance is very clear to me.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

My evaluation of the safebet vote was more of a coin flip first guess, it's naturally scummy but also an easy target to vote if they're town. I didn't at all expect for you to claim it was truly random. I don't really know what to think there. The floo vote I really didn't like on account of you being more experienced (ie. being able to restrain that first instinct about floo's "I didn't want to appear scummy" line)

The vote on me was nice and dramatic but you're not outing reads and claiming to randomly vote on page 26. It's also just bizarre to claim the vote as truly random-you had something you wanted from me in the next post.

This is a tough position to put me in. You're not hardscum at all, mainly by virtue of keeping your cards extremely close. Simultaneously, the better alternative to me is probably safebet and maybe Spartan, the latter of which is a project I was hoping to do tomorrow.

At what point are you planning to really enter the game with your vote and your opinions?

When I actually have the time to read the game. I am planning to attempt to do that before the deadline is up.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I was actually voting floo to see what would happen, not because I truly believed they were very probably scum.

As for opinions, I don't formulate them unless it is a rather sure thing.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

It was nice of you to invite me here and to offer to postpone, but I'm also skeptical that it was an accident given that I gave no indicator that I was around reading, let alone posting.

It might be nitpicky but the fact you instantly responded to me showing up a bit annoyed but took more prompting to engage with the reasoning you asked for is suspect to me. Maybe this is you being nice but you also seem to have already understood a decent part of my vote despite framing the question like my reasoning was unknown?

Like, you chose to A)

randomly

vote me B) immediately followup with a question you kinda already knew the answer to and C) invite me to a dialogue with a very tight window, with every expectation that I wouldn't be here to answer. Fortunately or unfortunately, I'm an obsessive who struggles to stay away.

Need to drive home now, I'll check on what Frederick says but then I'm probably going to bed. I'll get to anything else anyone asked me tomorrow.

I simply was taking some time off from my homework and decided that maybe we could talk like you wanted to 24 hours ago.

The fact that I instantly responded was because I had promised to be online for 20 minutes. I don't quite have the time to finish reading this post, so, I will stop there.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Now I'm having an existential crisis over the fact I typed all of that with from a grocery store parking lot.

Goodnight y'all, see you tomorrow.

Before I go, it is already 2 in the afternoon, 17 January where I live.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

What was the point of this post?

Forgive me if you have answered this post, but I have not seen an answer to the post above.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

If you get your word order wrong from now on, I think I might understand you. I don't speak Bengali, though, so it may be a lot more ambiguous to me than you think.

Bengali's grammar

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Well if you want talk, go ahead. I will hammer self when you want to.

Please don't end the day yet. I need some time to catch up.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Um FaC you do know what your doing right and not doing random things

I do a combination of random and non-random things. Good luck figuring out which is which.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I figured

What did you figure?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

It wasn't all random

Ok.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

...

Fredrick

comes in with 90 their random vote on safebet seeming potentially a little opportunistic to jump on early to a potential reverse wagon that didn't formulate.
166 strange reaction to being voted, lack of desire to input thoughts and fight for reads, very reserved and not very townie.
173 again refusal to providing meaningful content with a mindset of "I don't have to" very much keeping their cards close to their chest, making it hard to get a well rounded read on them.
185 states that he is expressing his opinion on something but provides a pretty nothing statement that contradicts itself.
211 212 jumps on the back of Sals reasoning without providing any fresh ideas of their own to vote Floo, seems like a very scummy vote to me. something I called out in 215 which I don't believe was ever properly answered by them.

I don't like Fredricks aloofness and lack of pushing for reads, he has appeared to me very opportunistic, as for someone who should be one of the far more experienced members of this group as an SE and isn't pushing conversation or contributing to uncovering scum, if anything it feels like he is scum hiding in plain sight.
VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

I didn't answer post 215 because the post simply stated your opinion. There was no reasoning for your opinion for me to argue against. Give me the reason for your opinion and we can have a conversation.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Heya Fred! What’s your read on Enchant?

My read on them has yet to be formed.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I know this is a tad-bit ironic, but I am still catching up.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Actually, come to think of it, is there a specific series of posts you want to talk about?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Eh, you’ll know it when you see it. Your response just now p much gave me what I wanted to know; I read Enchant as scummy for reasons that will become obvious when you get to them, your name has been thrown around as a possible partner to Enchant, but your response right now is not what I’d expect if you were partners.

The relevant posts start around page 28. Start when Flow votes for Enchant and the wagon begins.

Actually, I have read that part. So, what specifically made you think Enchant was mafia? (Just quoting the posts where you gave your opinion is sufficient)

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Honestly, i dislike making these, but if you wish.

ALERT: I using my sense, not common sense what most people have, so some reasons can be insane for you to understand.

Spoiler:

Salsabil Faria - Null.

I hardly can see difference. She acted same as town when i played with her and somehow she not pushing me, which is strange. I dunno.

flow trap - Town?

He wastes time on something, what i find mafia too lazy to do. While i may disagree with pairs tablet what he done, he done it and it deserved.

Enchant - Jester

No comments.

floo - Null.

Eh. I dunno again. He unvoted me, when there is danger of my selfhammer. Would mafia do that or sit and wait before i suicide? Hmm.

quiet - Mafia?

"OH NO ENCHANT DON'T SELFHAMMER but i place vote on you, so you could do that in first place BUT PLEASE DON'T!"

... Nah, really. It's looking strange for me, especially reason why you voted me. I'm scummy? Damn, yes, but if you don't want me to selfhammer, then don't allow me.

esotericzoomer - Null.

He really think as self like mafia hunter, who catched two mafia on first day? Huh-huh, then you will disappointed. I would read this as Town, but his explaining of why he vote not main suspicious person is something i not like.

Spartan117 (SE) - Town?

E-e-eh. I know i'm town. Mafia know this as well, so it may be just some bad placed white knight. Mafia probably have some benefit if they can save me from execution, but that's plain dumb decision. I want believe this is town.

Prism (SE) - Town?

Kinda obvious why. I like game overall, but again, expireince is key here, so please, don't just blindly trust in Prism and watch steps.

Fredrick A Campbell (SE) - Town?

He hardly read game at all. I made some strange tests and can say he is probably town. Probably.

So i want believe, that's Quite and some of nulls. Or maybe i screwed this, then i really doing town favor by dying.

If I were to try to make a readlist of my own, I would definitely "screw" something too. Hence, my reads are very fluid with players that were more likely to be town to me turning into more likely to be scum and vice versa.

Right now, given what I have read, my guess of the scumteam is Salsabil Faria and quiet with a higher than random chance of being right. Random chance is (1/28). Odds of right to wrong are (1:27).

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Salsabil Faria, I trust you to encounter my post where I ask you a question soon. I may or may not be online and may or may not be able to have a real-time talk with you.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Looks like you won't be getting there before I can start to talk to you. Good night.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

...

The only post that stood out to me as partner-indicating is

If I were to try to make a readlist of my own, I would definitely "screw" something too. Hence, my reads are very fluid with players that were more likely to be town to me turning into more likely to be scum and vice versa.

Right now, given what I have read, my guess of the scumteam is Salsabil Faria and quiet with a higher than random chance of being right. Random chance is (1/28). Odds of right to wrong are (1:27).

I'll assume that Fredrick is Enchant's scumpartner in this paragraph. Fredrick does not mention an Enchant read in this post or any other post so far post-drama, not even to analyze anything Enchant has done. At this time, Enchant is the most important read, but he has none (865), with an excuse of not having caught up (866). Instead, he redirects attention to two other scumreads but admits that there is a low chance of his reads being correct. So his strategy is to a) avoid discussing Enchant because any position in the Enchant drama will result in (eventual) suspicion, b) propose some other scumreads while admitting inconfidence to avoid angering his (town) scumreads or explaining his reads too far, and c) hope his partner's gambit and his own pivoting will allow them both to survive Day 1.

...

Enchant was null in my read. I did not have a reason to scumread them nor did I have a reason to townread them. In my opinion, what was more important was that there was a better than random chance that I was right about that pair in my opinion when I made the post.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick

The only real issue from my perspective with the enchant elim is that if they flip town, we have basically no real info.

They did enough suspicious things that pushing on them early doesn't look terribly bad.

Their self-vote openclaim Mafia Goon makes them so suspicious that literally anyone can vote them without looking bad.

There might be some info to find somewhere on a push on them, but frankly, it feels like Day1 part2 if they flip town, and it feels like who gets killed at night or bad solving or something would provide more info that anyone pushing the Enchant slot.

you're being too paranoid

You were overconfident.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

you're being too paranoid

This sounds scummy tbh

not being confident in your reads and double-checking everything will drive town into ruin

Having confidence in your reads when you have no reason to place that confidence in your reads will bring you to incorrect conclusions.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Frederick, it last looks like you were still catching up. Did you ever finish/where are you at?

I'm also wondering what you thought about Enchant, it seemed like you got current near the end w/ responding to Enchant's 869. What did you think about the slot/why were you leaning Salsabil and quiet?

I finished one stretch between posts 853 and the end of the previous day phase. I moved on to the posts between posts 604 and 853 until the night phase was over and reached post 829.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I suspect the mafia is comprised of Spartan11 and flow trap.

VOTE: Spartan11

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Frederick, esotericzoomer has access to the flip and can see that it flipped town. It's Day 2. You're one of the more experienced players here. It's time to play the game.

VOTE: Frederick

I drafted my first three posts in the last night phase and didn't want to put it to waste. Also, for some reason, I didn't register that two of the posts I drafted was responding to esotericzoomer's posts until after I have posted it.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Spartan117 has justified their scumread of me despite the fact that I have stated that he stated an opinion that had no justification.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Bottom of 746, don't think he's focused as much on you today other than by reference to yesterday. The votes on you are me and Salsabil.

How about flow trap?

The read on flow trap is contingent on Spartan117 flipping mafia.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Sorry about this, but this game will need to wait till tomorrow. I haven't had the will to read any part of this thread in detail today.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Spartan117 has justified their scumread of me despite the fact that I have stated that he stated an opinion that had no justification.

Allow me to correct you Fredrick, because you are wrong. It honestly really frustrates me because I share the same concerns of flow trap that there is a chance you might be town and a miselim on you would be a big problem for us, if you are actually town you are making this really hard for us. But you continue to act the most sus player here, you have had as much time as everyone else here to read the thread we have had the night phase where you had time to catch up and work towards providing a meaningful contribution, there have been two player deaths which you could review the wagon on Enchant and EZs flip on which you could review their interactions and who might want them dead, there is lots of material for you to use to actually try and solve the game whilst you would rather talk to the dead. If you want to scumread me that's fine, I'm all for it, but provide reasoning play the game if you are town, quote my posts that you think are scummy and explain what you think about my actions that are so suspicious, because I don't want to lose this game just because you can't be bothered to check my ISO...

VOTE: floo

Very scummy vote imo, has been lurking around and posting but still yet to provide any sort of detailed reads of their own as if they are unable to because they know everyone is town. Here voting off the back of other peoples reads without providing any sort of breakdown as to why they actually think they are sus or bringing anything new to the table.

Here in 215 I explained my read on you and your only response was watery and meaningless in 357 and 364.

Let me make this very clear. The part of your statement where you say "as if they are unable to because they know everyone is town." is an opinion. If you want me to take that seriously, you need to show me more reasons why you think that is the case. Otherwise, expect me to ignore that.

Fredrick
comes in with 90 their random vote on safebet seeming potentially a little opportunistic to jump on early to a potential reverse wagon that didn't formulate.
166 strange reaction to being voted, lack of desire to input thoughts and fight for reads, very reserved and not very townie.
173 again refusal to providing meaningful content with a mindset of "I don't have to" very much keeping their cards close to their chest, making it hard to get a well rounded read on them.
185 states that he is expressing his opinion on something but provides a pretty nothing statement that contradicts itself.
211 212 jumps on the back of Sals reasoning without providing any fresh ideas of their own to vote Floo, seems like a very scummy vote to me. something I called out in 215 which I don't believe was ever properly answered by them.

I don't like Fredricks aloofness and lack of pushing for reads, he has appeared to me very opportunistic, as for someone who should be one of the far more experienced members of this group as an SE and isn't pushing conversation or contributing to uncovering scum, if anything it feels like he is scum hiding in plain sight.
VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

Your comment on 166 does not explain why you think the reaction was strange. The rest of the comment says "lack of desire to input thoughts and fight for reads, very reserved and not very townie." It, however, does not explain why does any of what you observe make it "not very townie."

Your comment on 173 says that I refused to provide meaningful content. Any attempt to read the post would demonstrate that I was not refusing to provide meaningful content and was refusing something else entirely.

Your comment on 185 fails to point out the non-existant contradiction. Also, I disagree that it is a "pretty nothing statement."

Your comment on 211 212 simply states that it is a very scummy vote to you. I was given no indication of what may change your mind.

Finally, you further state what makes you think I am scum. However, the comments on which you base your conclusion on are not falsifiable and you do not have any reason to make any of these conclusions.

Here in 746 where I share my reads I go into detail breaking down your posts and giving an explanation as to why I voted you D1, the fact that you are an SE and are an experienced player and are doing this just makes me think you aren't very experienced playing as scum. You seem to struggle to formulate reads, providing twice as many posts as floo while they have provided plenty of content, breakdown of their thoughts and reads.

Overall you come across as a very defensive player who seems to have something to hide. 166 173 show you being over defensive and look to be afraid of the spotlight being put on you. Requires meaning on why they are being scum read in order to respond and contribute but then doesnt provide any meaning behind their own votes, as seen in 191 212 (212s only elaboration appears to be in the meaningless post of 364 ) 626 853

And now, you think 166 and 173 are "defensive and look to be afraid of the spotlight being put on you" for no reason. I "Requires meaning on why they are being scum read in order to respond" only when asked to defend myself.

He likes to appear to be playing the game casting votes without actually applying any pressure, not actually contributing anything to the group which is indicative of scum.

863 makes me laugh because you actually request the reasoning for my opinion while quoting my reasoning breaking down your posts with me explaining why I think you are scum. You state

There was no reasoning for your opinion for me to argue against

I'll set you a challenge, in your 75 posts quote us which ones have you providing meaningful content trying to solve the game, otherwise I'm placing my vote on you.

I refuse to place my vote on you now as I do not wish to put you to L-1 at this moment in time when D2 has only just begun, I do not want you or your scum buddy to come along and hammer you, there is still much discussion to be had and people to hear from, and after all there are 2 scum.

I had planned to put my attention on Sal and review their posts in answer to their 1080 and I shall do, but to do it justice I shall have to do that later.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Spartan117, it is brilliant of you, knowing how little time I spend per day on this game, to continue making wall after wall with the expectation that I will respond to it and forget to read the rest of the thread.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Actually, Spartan117, I am kind of getting why you are scumreading me now. Not that I can do anything about it, though.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Then, again, 173 being defensive because I used the phrase "I don't have to" doesn't seem like a very genuine reason to scumread me.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

...

Your comment on 211 212 simply states that it is a very scummy vote to you. I was given no indication of what may change your mind.

Fredrick why are you asking me what may change my mind, why would it matter to townFredrick what you would need to do to appease me to take my vote off you, how about like I have pleaded with you to actually play the game and try and find scum instead of being a spectator and prodge whenever you feel like it.
...

Because you wanted me to respond to your comment on 215.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I need to think more about floo’s post before I try to sort based on it.

While you’re here, @floo which of my three other TRs in Spartian, Prism, Flow Trap do you think is the most likely to screw me over and why?

Why do you townread Spartan117?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Explain your reads and don't respond with an "I don't care"

This part shows that you're really desperate to pick up a fight with me. The whole

flow trap

vs me thing was happening for a long enough time but you didn't bother to interfere then. Now you're using this fraction of my arguments to make me look bad??? Guess what,

I really don't care!!

Joke of the year!! Now I'm arrogant!!!

Yes, you're arrogant.

I think it is quite clear that floo was only trying to communicate with you. I don't understand why do you interpret this as an attempt to pick a fight with you.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

...

Your comment on 211 212 simply states that it is a very scummy vote to you. I was given no indication of what may change your mind.

Fredrick why are you asking me what may change my mind, why would it matter to townFredrick what you would need to do to appease me to take my vote off you, how about like I have pleaded with you to actually play the game and try and find scum instead of being a spectator and prodge whenever you feel like it.
...

Because you wanted me to respond to your comment on 215.

Uhm, never mind.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Spoiler:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Spartan117 has justified their scumread of me despite the fact that I have stated that he stated an opinion that had no justification.

Allow me to correct you Fredrick, because you are wrong. It honestly really frustrates me because I share the same concerns of flow trap that there is a chance you might be town and a miselim on you would be a big problem for us, if you are actually town you are making this really hard for us. But you continue to act the most sus player here, you have had as much time as everyone else here to read the thread we have had the night phase where you had time to catch up and work towards providing a meaningful contribution, there have been two player deaths which you could review the wagon on Enchant and EZs flip on which you could review their interactions and who might want them dead, there is lots of material for you to use to actually try and solve the game whilst you would rather talk to the dead. If you want to scumread me that's fine, I'm all for it, but provide reasoning play the game if you are town, quote my posts that you think are scummy and explain what you think about my actions that are so suspicious, because I don't want to lose this game just because you can't be bothered to check my ISO...

VOTE: floo

Very scummy vote imo, has been lurking around and posting but still yet to provide any sort of detailed reads of their own as if they are unable to because they know everyone is town. Here voting off the back of other peoples reads without providing any sort of breakdown as to why they actually think they are sus or bringing anything new to the table.

Here in 215 I explained my read on you and your only response was watery and meaningless in 357 and 364.

Let me make this very clear. The part of your statement where you say "as if they are unable to because they know everyone is town." is an opinion. If you want me to take that seriously, you need to show me more reasons why you think that is the case. Otherwise, expect me to ignore that.

Fredrick
comes in with 90 their random vote on safebet seeming potentially a little opportunistic to jump on early to a potential reverse wagon that didn't formulate.
166 strange reaction to being voted, lack of desire to input thoughts and fight for reads, very reserved and not very townie.
173 again refusal to providing meaningful content with a mindset of "I don't have to" very much keeping their cards close to their chest, making it hard to get a well rounded read on them.
185 states that he is expressing his opinion on something but provides a pretty nothing statement that contradicts itself.
211 212 jumps on the back of Sals reasoning without providing any fresh ideas of their own to vote Floo, seems like a very scummy vote to me. something I called out in 215 which I don't believe was ever properly answered by them.

I don't like Fredricks aloofness and lack of pushing for reads, he has appeared to me very opportunistic, as for someone who should be one of the far more experienced members of this group as an SE and isn't pushing conversation or contributing to uncovering scum, if anything it feels like he is scum hiding in plain sight.
VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

Your comment on 166 does not explain why you think the reaction was strange. The rest of the comment says "lack of desire to input thoughts and fight for reads, very reserved and not very townie." It, however, does not explain why does any of what you observe make it "not very townie."

Your comment on 173 says that I refused to provide meaningful content. Any attempt to read the post would demonstrate that I was not refusing to provide meaningful content and was refusing something else entirely.

Your comment on 185 fails to point out the non-existant contradiction. Also, I disagree that it is a "pretty nothing statement."

Your comment on 211 212 simply states that it is a very scummy vote to you. I was given no indication of what may change your mind.

Finally, you further state what makes you think I am scum. However, the comments on which you base your conclusion on are not falsifiable and you do not have any reason to make any of these conclusions.

Here in 746 where I share my reads I go into detail breaking down your posts and giving an explanation as to why I voted you D1, the fact that you are an SE and are an experienced player and are doing this just makes me think you aren't very experienced playing as scum. You seem to struggle to formulate reads, providing twice as many posts as floo while they have provided plenty of content, breakdown of their thoughts and reads.

Overall you come across as a very defensive player who seems to have something to hide. 166 173 show you being over defensive and look to be afraid of the spotlight being put on you. Requires meaning on why they are being scum read in order to respond and contribute but then doesnt provide any meaning behind their own votes, as seen in 191 212 (212s only elaboration appears to be in the meaningless post of 364 ) 626 853

And now, you think 166 and 173 are "defensive and look to be afraid of the spotlight being put on you" for no reason. I "Requires meaning on why they are being scum read in order to respond" only when asked to defend myself.

He likes to appear to be playing the game casting votes without actually applying any pressure, not actually contributing anything to the group which is indicative of scum.

863 makes me laugh because you actually request the reasoning for my opinion while quoting my reasoning breaking down your posts with me explaining why I think you are scum. You state

There was no reasoning for your opinion for me to argue against

I'll set you a challenge, in your 75 posts quote us which ones have you providing meaningful content trying to solve the game, otherwise I'm placing my vote on you.

I refuse to place my vote on you now as I do not wish to put you to L-1 at this moment in time when D2 has only just begun, I do not want you or your scum buddy to come along and hammer you, there is still much discussion to be had and people to hear from, and after all there are 2 scum.

I had planned to put my attention on Sal and review their posts in answer to their 1080 and I shall do, but to do it justice I shall have to do that later.

So everyone here we are, another day another single post from fredrick, I simply do not understand why he is being defended, where are his contributions this post if you could even call it that is just another attempt to deflect and be dismissive. In 1104 I proposed to you a challenge Fredrick and you didn't even attempt it, I'm hardly surprised tbh. So this single post of yours which I had to wait a whole 2 days for, disregards all of what I have said, and responds with this...
...

Another attempt to deflect and be dismissive? How is trying my best to respond to everything within my time constraints "another attempt to deflect and be dismissive?"

[Fredrick A Campbell]

...

- Spartan vs Fredrick is town vs scum, and there is one scum on each side of the wagon (i.e. one partner is vote bussing; this is a wild guess)
...

Why do you think so?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: floo

[Fredrick A Campbell]

...

also, Fred, don't let me down, man. Why do you scumread not one but both of my townreads? Where did this Spartian sus appear from anyhow? I'm going to go digging and see who pointed fingers first.

VOTE: Salsabil

I have the feeling that Spartan117 is deliberately misinterpreting my posts to scumread me. Why do you townread Spartan117?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I had been rather proud of being able to at least make a guess of the mafia team by now. Typically, I know it is going to be a hard win when I couldn't figure it out at this point.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Yesterday was busier than I expected. responding to some recent posts (starting at page 50) first.

1226 and succeeding posts: Fred forced to maintain his appearance of being lazy if scum, and has committed to no effort if town. Asking questions is the best way to get info from Fred at this point, especially yes/no ones that can be answered in seconds.

@Frederick A Campbell please explain whatever reads come to your mind in 5ish words each? Even if you don't have the time to respond to follow up questions, just having the basic reasons is useful to everyone. A brief "Lurking, evades my questions" is far more useful than no explanation.

Typing up some follow up posts quickly.

I currently am thinking that quiet and floo are the scumteam.

I think there is something wrong with quiet's post 1305. Details if I have time.
I don't quite remember why I suspect floo.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I have the feeling that Spartan117 is deliberately misinterpreting my posts to scumread me. Why do you townread Spartan117?

It doesn't feel deliberate to me. I'll concede that you are eminently targetable if you are town, but frankly I'm not exactly sure why scum outs themselves this hard/pushes like crazy all day against you when you are town here. It might be a bad read (in the case where you are town), but it is a high visibility and high cost read for scum to take knowing that you are town.

I have decided to save all posts after 1310 for later and detail what I think is weird about this post. I clearly recall quiet saying that he would not read me as town but has assumed I am town for some unknown reason.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Individualized feedback, I'm sorry but it's not quite as indepth as I would like at points/have the backlinks but I need to head out and want to post these while it's still fresh. I would recommend checking the notes PT/searching variants of your name there to find specific examples of how I exploited the things I talk about.

Specific feedback:

Spoiler: flow trap

I do think being more open would have gone a long way, especially early days. Your pairings and wall were brilliant, and your reads were good (esp. on Salsabil imo, that was legitimately a great progression) but actively dialoguing with quiet, floo, etc. much earlier on would have gone a long way. By playing more closed, I was often able to leverage my appeals to you as “freebies”: +town posts that didn’t put myself or the scumteam at any risk at all. Imagine if you had, say, worked with quiet on a Spartan vote or been able to sell that more effectively Day 2. I think Day 3 specifically, you could have engineered a bit more from both quiet and floo. Your off the cuff style was a strength, and I chose not to push you this game, but you do need to be careful that you’re not making the kind of contradictions I pointed out near the end of Day 2.

Spoiler: Fairyprincess69

You ruined my life, I have virtually no words for you. You didn’t really play enough to have me give a ton of feedback but I think your reads were great, maybe a bit too caught up in my tone/emotional side. You pushing Spartan more would have outright won the game, but just the vulnerabilities you showed by pushing the slot were nearly enough to sink it. Easiest fearkill of my life.

Spoiler: Floo

he most glaring issue, as you’ve identified, is motivation and posting. Your team needed you Day 3, not to necessarily no-life it like I did, but to be engaged and dialoguing with them.

You knew I was mafia, so there was little point talking to me.

My perception was that you were in your own head about where you went wrong/how you got put into such a bind, which is understandable, but you had to push through that. You have good analysis, but you need to dialogue more readily and not selectively ignore things. I exploited this relentlessly this game and others will do the same. Finally, I think you had the right idea in going after me/Spartan specifically! This is extremely tough to do but you found it. Lastly, this one is more minor, I do think you could have sharpened your points against me a bit-had I responded, I think you would have found they shot you in the foot. That said, you were under a ton of pressure by this time, and making sure you got me exactly right was a very small worry in comparison

Spoiler: Enchant

Never selfvote as town unless you gain a concrete mechanical advantage for doing so. Never think of yourself as valueless or “bound to be voted later.”

Spoiler: Salsabil

In general, you were a pleasure to play with, and I found flow trap similarly abrasive as times. Simultaneously, floo/flow trap were right that your reaction was throwing gas on the fire. It’s on you to successfully link up as town, and sometimes that means really, REALLY going out of your way to accommodate people you entirely disagree with.

Spoiler: Quiet

Your weakness is experience, and in lacking several parts of the toolkit that simply comes with time. I do think my progressions were worth looking more into, esp. on Spartan. It is easy to look at yourself and think this game was won if you didn’t fall for the pocket. You fell for the pocket because I was absolutely relentless and obsessive with developing it, and this is time, effort, and public content that is more up to other town to punish. I think you had the right idea with how much you tried to work with floo Day 3. And floo was wrong imo, you were not some lapdog, here’s a quote from the wall I typed up:

“Respectfully, while I know this is quiet's to deal with, for quiet: You are not my lapdog. You turned the read I had on your slot around. You worked through the read on me on your own, and your vote is your own. You have real agency and have worked to solve the game all day, and have not been mindlessly following me, even at the cost of being wrong Day 2. And being wrong sucks, but it's the only way to improve. If you respect me and take parts of my game as your own as you continue to develop, that's amazing and an honor. The entire reason you play Newbies is to pass the baton off like that.”

While this was meant to solidify the townread, you had the hardest job in the entire town minus maybe floo, and it is largely true. It is easy to say "Fuck quiet for getting pocketed" when you're not the one being specifically targeted day after day after day.

Spoiler: Esotericzoomer

Unfortunately, being aware of what is generally +town means that you can fake it, and I think the most important concept here is “range”. Inexperienced players do traditionally scummy things a lot, experienced players know how to leverage traditionally town behaviors for themselves as town. The behavior itself matters a lot less than the player making it. The flow trap post was simply “free”, it posed no danger to me as scum, and it wasn’t even my intent to get

that

townread by it.

Spoiler: Frederick

You’re too caught up in semantics and being perfectly logically consistent. You need to make more room for plausible connections and make a more active effort at both understanding what the other players are getting at, and to be wrong in your own guesses/assertive in working with imperfect information.

Spoiler: Safebet

In the event you come back, I think you needed to be a bit more comparative in your treatment of players and answer more of the specific questions towards you, but generally I didn’t have as good of a chance to feel you out as I did the others.

Thanks for the feedback. The mafia team played very well in my opinion.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Anyone wants to play this game?